Myron Rolle, From Oxford to the NFL to Neurosurgery, the 2% way

FOLLOW THE PIVOT PODCAST: MERCH | https://pivotpodcast.com YOUTUBE | https://www.youtube.com/thepivotpodcast INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/thepivot TWITTER | https://twitter.com/thepivot TIKTOK | https://tiktok.com/@thepivot FACEBOOK | https://www.facebook.com/thepivotpodcast FOLLOW HAPPY DAD: https://www.instagram.com/happydad FIND HAPPY DAD: https://www.happydad.com/find A Rhodes Scholar, a father, a husband, a doctor, an athlete and now author…Myron Rolle joins The Pivot to talk about his book The 2% Way and his philosophy of how small improvements took him from Oxford to the NFL to Neurosurgery. Ahead of the book's release- Ryan, Channing and Fred sit down with Myron and pick his brain on his unprecedented journey. The guys talk about how rare it is to be successful at two demanding, high profile professions in medicine and professional sports, which also seem complete opposites- one is a sport for entertainment and the other is life and death. Although from the outside it seems very different, Myron explains how similar the two careers really are in philosophy, approach and mindset. Balancing both athletics and academics allowed for a seamless transition from one career to the other and is something he shares with young mentees today . Ryan had the chance to play with Myron in the league and embraced the opportunity of soaking up some of the knowledge he shared along the way as well as the immense respect for his medical work and sacrifice during the pandemic. Referring to him as the smartest player to ever play in the NFL, Channing asks Myron how he could know so much about the brain and consequences of playing football yet still desire to play such a tough sport which opens up the conversation on CTE and the work Myron has done through research and partnering with the NFL. Fred acknowledges the positives and a lot of the success stories surgeons have but the guys get into a tougher conversation on how some of the losses are handled and the pressures of working at highly touted hospitals and institutes such as Mass General and Harvard. Closing out the conversation, Ryan turns it over to Myron to share his message to young people and how it's never too late to choose a different path in life and the value of hard work. The 2% Way is available starting May 17th in all major bookstores and digital platforms. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an Ultra. Because it's not just a superior like beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:28Channing Crowder?

  Freddie, man, you know, RC ain't here, he gotta get pretty. You know, he gotta do, we got, we got one of them damn pretty ass capers coming on today, so he over there, I don't iron it, some shit, whatever. But, man, we done had a good time with PrizePix, bro.

• 0:42Fred Taylor?

  Yes, sir.

• 0:43Channing Crowder?

  It's so easy. Pick you a player, see what he gonna do, if you think you know what he gonna do, do it. And it's in 75% of states right now, including California, Texas, Florida, the big ones. We done had fun with everybody out there, gotta jump on, man. PrizePix, and if you use our promo code PIVOT, you gonna get all kind of good stuff.

• 0:59Fred Taylor?

  Hey, Chan, you forgot to tell them, whatever they put in up to $100, we'll match it. But you gotta put in PIVOT promo code in order to get the money. Whatever you put in, they gonna double it, up to $100. That's easy, just like the game. Get it in.

• 1:13Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, Freddie, NBA Finals right now, man, we about to jump into it. We got a great show for you, but PrizePix does it all. Man, hockey, right now in the playoffs.

• 1:22Fred Taylor?

  Baseball.

• 1:23Channing Crowder?

  Baseball, you got, you got boxing, I'm telling you. PrizePix, if you think you know what you doing, bro, get on PrizePix. You know that much about sports? Go win some money, talking about sports.

• 1:33Fred Taylor?

  And it's simple. You just picking players, baby. Get it in.

• 2:02Ryan Clark?

  What up, man?

• 2:03Speaker 04

  My guy, my guy.

• 2:04Ryan Clark?

  Doctor, what up? Doctor Myron Rolle, what's up, man?

• 2:08Speaker 04

  I got something for you, brother.

• 2:09Ryan Clark?

  Appreciate it, appreciate it. The IQ done went up. Appreciate it. The IQ done went up. Oh, my goodness. What's up with you, baby?

• 2:17Speaker 04

  One team to the world, baby.

• 2:18Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, look at this. Hey, man, the 2% way. Doctor Myron Rolle, tell us a little bit about the book, man.

• 2:25Speaker 04

  Man, you know, it was a philosophy that my coach at Florida State, Mickey Andrews, sort of put on all of us. Wanted us to get 2% better in everything we did. Grab small levels of incremental growth every day. Get better as an athlete and get better as a leader on the field. And I sort of extrapolated that mindset to life where anything I do, any chance encounter I have, any video I watch, any book I read, I'm trying to grab 2% from that to add it to my own journey so I can change my trajectory. And so I wrote this book. It's like my story arc, but I inject the 2% mindset in any challenges you have in life. No matter where you come from, who you are, you can apply small steps every single day to break down a larger goal and just get better every single time. And so we're excited about it. We're fired up about it.

• 3:08Ryan Clark?

  So what's crazy is, you know, you kind of talk about your book, but, you know, people have asked me about, you know, would you ever write a book? Would you ever tell a story? And these things. And I'm always like, I don't really know what I'd tell a story about. And everybody says, well, you have a story. You have adversities and the things that you go through. For you, though, being a young athlete, what gave you the mindset of seeing beyond the playing field the way that you did?

• 3:34Speaker 04

  You know, for me, RC, it was my parents. You know, coming from the Bahamas, when we got to America, they really wanted to stress the importance of having black role models in our lives. So we had Paul Robison, WB the Boy, Booker T. Washington, Ben Carson, was somebody they put in front of me. Pediatric neurosurgeon separated two conjoined twins from the occipital lobe, and both of those twins live. First time that's ever done.

• 3:55Ryan Clark?

  Also, too, you got to remember, this is the pivot now. Like, you just said a word that we don't really know, so we need you to explain that. He said occipital lobe? I don't know what he's... Where is my occipital lobe?

• 4:06Speaker 04

  It's back here, brother. It's back here. Y'all didn't catch our extrapolate at the beginning. I don't know if you caught that one. But seeing that in Carson's story, somebody looked like me, somebody who came from a modest background like we came from, somebody whose parents focused on education, I said to myself, this is somebody who I can see myself as, once I exhaust all my athletic ability. And so, I think my parents really wanted me and my brothers to have a breadth of skill, so that once we finish our athletic journey, that we can move into the next chapter of our life and still have value to the world. And so that's where neurosurgery, the seed was planted early on in life, and once I was done playing, I said, let's move on to this, and hopefully we can save people and cure people and do good work in the world.

• 4:48Channing Crowder?

  And brother, 2% weight though, like how do you, how do you figure out what the 2% weight is? Like you say, get 2% better every day. How do you, how do you find that number that I have got 2% better today?

• 4:59Speaker 04

  You know, so, I think the way I look at that number is, it's a realistic, practical goal. You know, some people say, Shannon, hey man, I got 100% better today. It's almost like you're doubling your talent in one day, which is impractical, not realistic, and unfathomable in a way, right? But if you just get 2% practical growth, say, I just had this small victory today, meaning like, look, if I need to get better in my punctuality, well, today I was able to put in my calendar, put in my phone, remind myself I need to, you know, wake up a little bit earlier, I need to have my buddy sort of check in on me, be my accountability friend, so I can get to work on time. That's 2% of growth, 2% of increase. So it's small, it's realistic, it feels manageable, because a lot of times we have these larger tasks that sometimes can feel overwhelming. But if you just break

• 5:43Speaker 04

  it down and say, you know, I got this small victory today, I got a little better today, and then a month from now, six months from now, a year from now, you can look back and say, I'm so much better than I was before, and I'm closer to my journey, I'm closer to a better version of myself. And that's really what we try to get across in this book.

• 5:56Fred Taylor?

  You know what? I'm gonna slow this thing down a little bit.

• 5:59Channing Crowder?

  Going fast, eh?

• 6:00Fred Taylor?

  Cause you talking fast, brother, you talking like a doctor. Let's, let's take it back to the island.

• 6:05Speaker 04

  242. Yes, sir.

• 6:07Fred Taylor?

  Bahamas.

• 6:08Speaker 04

  Yes, sir.

• 6:08Fred Taylor?

  Bahamian native, man. You know, I'm, I'm pretty sure that everybody back home, all the little brown kids, man, you're such an inspiration. This is a Freddie Flowers moment. But, most, most athletes, when, when I got to college, I wanted to major in the easiest thing, just so I can be eligible to play.

• 6:29Fred Taylor?

  Neuro, like, what do you have to major in? What were the steps for you to get to, you know, to want to work on brains? I mean, I don't know any other way to say it.

• 6:38Speaker 04

  Neurosurgery.

• 6:39Fred Taylor?

  I know neurosurgeon, but like, what was this, like, you went into school thinking that?

• 6:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, you know, I went in early thinking that this was going to be my path. But I appreciate that. I mean, I think that coming where we're from, you know, the Bahamas, you know, it's a wonderful place, but there obviously are some limited resources. And my parents took me from the Bahamas when I was two years old and I grew up in America. And they wanted us to have an opportunity to have an abundance of resources and ample opportunities to be great citizens, great leaders. And they focused on education. Like, I mean, it was not a question unequivocally what you needed to be, have a priority and a premium on, and that was my school, being a student first before an athlete. So when I read about Ben Carson, when I learned about the brain in sixth grade, fifth,

• 7:24Speaker 04

  sixth grade, I said, this is such an interesting organ that can control like the way we speak, control our blood pressure, control our body temperature. One part of the brain controls, you know, how we understand language, and another part of the brain controls what we can see and how we can process things. I said, this is phenomenal. And so getting to Florida State, I was recruited really highly out of high school. I told my coaches at FSU and all the coaches recruiting me, I want to be a neurosurgeon. Help me get there. Activate and mobilize.

• 7:52Fred Taylor?

  Did they look at you crazy?

• 7:53Speaker 04

  Coach Baden did not, actually. He was like, look, and this is the thing, right? Florida State, we were coming off a time, this is a very honest truth, we were coming off a time where we needed our academic reputation to be improved. And so the idea of having a student athlete come there, who they can sort of put as their poster boy, as the epitome of what a student athlete ought to be, they said, we are going to put our resources behind you to do what you need to do. And so if you want to be a brain surgeon, we'll put you in pre-med classes, we'll have you shadow neurosurgeons locally in Tallahassee, so you can go ahead and do big things. And so the support, the network was there, and I appreciate it because it allowed my journey to sort of take off, both on the football field and in the classroom.

• 8:34Channing Crowder?

  We think that was a knock against you, because like, your focus is not ball. Your focus is not playing ball. Like, it's harder to be a neurosurgeon. Then to get in the NFL and it's not many, it's not many jobs you can say that, right? Like there, there are, there are less neurosurgeons than dudes that play in the NFL. Do you think that some people were intimidated by that when you tell a college? You went to Florida, I'm a Gator, so I got a bad mouth. But you went to Florida State, it's not a higher learning education place like.

• 9:01Ryan Clark?

  You go to Florida State to play.

• 9:03Channing Crowder?

  You go to Florida State to play football, but you go to Florida State now to be a neurosurgeon. Did you, did, did you ever feel as if your medical passion hurt you with recruiting?

• 9:14Speaker 04

  I think, I think it was definitely difficult for people to understand how, how important it was for me to be a true student and to even think about a Rhodes Scholarship or to think about neurosurgery or think about anything beyond sports because as you mentioned, Florida State, Power Five, huge school. This is what you expect. Um, you know, my cousin Samari went to FSU, so I'd always watch FSU when I was a young man. And I knew I wanted to be there, but I had to find the people to say, look, we're gonna appreciate your journey and we're gonna help support your journey. Um, but what I say about my time at FSU, this is, I think, the hardest part. I don't think it was having people believe that I wanted to be a true student. I think it was fitting into the culture. Now, I'll be frank with you, coming down from New Jersey where I was a prep school kid,

• 9:56Speaker 04

  glasses tucked in my shirt to all these boys down in Florida dreadlocks, gold teeth, fronts that don't come out, like these permanent fronts, you know what I'm saying? Listening to Plies and Boozy and TWD and I'm like, man, there's more artists than these Florida rappers that y'all listen to. It was a lot, man. And so I'm trying to like fit into these boys. I'm, I know one of my teammates said, hey, bro, you got a jit? It's like, you got an old lady? I was like, I don't know what y'all talking about right now. I don't know these words. I said, I don't know country fried steak. I don't know none of y'all stuff y'all doing. But, um, but eventually, man, I got in with the boys, I got cool with them and they sort of accepted in me uh, and, and appreciated me as a brother because I put the work in on the field, you know? That was sort of my rite of passage. Like if I worked hard and I showed my commitment to the sport uh, and to being a part of the team and not different from the team because I was smart,

• 10:40Speaker 04

  uh, they would, you know, allow me to rock with them and make me their brother and they did. So that was good.

• 10:44Ryan Clark?

  You know, he asked about recruiting and people, you know, maybe holding it against you or recruiting because obviously when these guys are bringing you to the school, that's how they keep their jobs. That's how the school makes their money. When they have a five-star athlete that comes in, they want you to be All-American, which you were. Um, a lasting impression I have of you, there's a game being played, it's national TV and you come out there late. Right, you run on the field late because you wanted to take your test in order to be a Rhodes Scholar. When you have to make decisions like that, what's going through your mind? Because what you're saying is, at that point, we are now making you choose between priorities. Right? There's a priority of you were a football player, you won scholarship to do that,

• 11:29Ryan Clark?

  but your ultimate goal was to be a neurosurgeon. And most days, those things didn't have to collide. And you chose to take the test and show up to the game late. What was your thought process in that?

• 11:40Speaker 04

  It was tough. I, to be frank with you, my initial thought was, man, I can't take this Rhodes Scholarship interview. I can't leave my boys hanging. We were playing University of Maryland, ACC opponent. Big game. Samari's playing in Baltimore, so he's nearby. Like, you know, I just feel like this is the moment I need to be there. I'm an All-American player at the time, leader of the team. But then the Rhodes Committee said, if you don't take this interview now, you're not going to get this scholarship, or you don't even have a chance. So you can't postpone this. So you're right, those two roads did collide. I prayed about it, I talked to my teammates, and I really asked them, brothers, what should I do? Should I, you know, do this Rhodes Scholarship interview? Is it okay if I miss half the game and come back later? And they were like, we support you. They got me in the middle of the circle, on the football field, put their hands on me and prayed for me.

• 12:25Speaker 04

  A lot of those boys didn't even know how to spell Rhodes. No offense to my guys, they didn't know where I was going.

• 12:29Ryan Clark?

  They didn't spell it R-O-A-D.

• 12:31Speaker 04

  Exactly. These are my brothers, but they were like, hey, we don't know what it is, but you know, we know it's big and you're gonna do it. So they showed me support and so much love. And so getting their sort of approval and getting their support was huge for me to take that test, to go and do that interview, and then win the scholarship, get on a private plane, fly to Maryland, get into the second quarter, get an ice water bath from my teammates. We beat up Maryland 37 to 3. Wonderful day, man. And Florida State and student athletes in general, I think, won that day. Because here's somebody, like you said, putting these two roads that seemed like they were divergent, putting them together, and having success on a major level. It was a big time.

• 13:05Ryan Clark?

  I gotta ask, bro, because what you just said is funny. You said student athlete.

• 13:10Channing Crowder?

  Ninety-nine point nine percent of people, it's athlete-student.

• 13:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:14Channing Crowder?

  Cause I, I took, I took the baby, I, bro, I took, I took the baby classes. Bro, I took social dance twice. I took bowling twice. But I went where, what is it, it's public speaking. Like, I was taking the classes like, I'm going to the league. This is, this is my goal to go to the league. You were a legit student-athlete, and you said your, your homeboys supported that? Because, I ain't gonna lie, bruh, if my, if I'm at Florida, and my All-American safety is gonna miss two quarters to go talk to some people that, this, this is how I would take it as an eighteen-year-old, nineteen-year-old crowd.

• 13:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, you're right.

• 13:49Channing Crowder?

  So my All-American safety that I need back there that's calling out the calls, is about to go talk to a panel? When I'm out here grinding? You ain't have no pushback from that?

• 13:58Speaker 04

  Brother, honestly, no, man, cause they, they, my brothers called me on the team, doctor, or president, or senator role, already. They already sort of appreciated the grind, and, and they looked out for me. I'll give you an example, right? So, when I was a freshman at FSU, um, I didn't know how to play spades, you know what I'm saying? I didn't know how to, you know, again, freestyle rap like the boys.

• 14:17Channing Crowder?

  Is, is that behind me, or is that just you was a nerd?

• 14:20Speaker 04

  That's just me being a nerd, bruh.

• 14:24Channing Crowder?

  Had nothing to do with where he was raised, dawg, yeah. It's, it's a spades going on in the harbor.

• 14:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's spades, man, that's spades, dominoes, everything plucked, you know, everything rummy, but nah, I was like, I was out of it, man. So, uh, so I didn't know I'd do, do any of that stuff. But I told my brother, I said, "Look, man, I'm going to be a pre-med student, I wanna be a neurosurgeon, I wanna be a road scout." I was telling my teammates this, and I was like, strong about that. Like, I didn't, I didn't waver on where I wanted to be. And, uh, and so, they, they bought in, they said, "Brother, this dude keeps talking about this. He doesn't accept our invitations to go out to the club, or go to Atlanta on a road trip, or go here and go there. He's always in his room studying, he's doing what he can, let's protect." I did say one night, I said, "Man, I wanna, I wanna kick it with y'all, boys, like, let me, let me just go hang with y'all." And, uh, and they were like, um, "All right, Roll, let me see what you're talking about."

• 15:07Speaker 04

  So I went down to the first, uh, first sort of floor in our apartment complex, and the boys are doing some stuff down there. I won't repeat, but it was, it was different. And so, they saw me walk in, and they saw my face, and they were... Like they realized, look, if we are the reason why this brother doesn't achieve his goal of being a Rhodes Scholar or a neurosurgeon, we're gonna feel bad. So they kicked me out of there like, bro, leave, man, leave. You don't wanna be around here, all this stuff. And I was like, oh, man, my brothers don't like me. But then, looking back on it, I said, they were protecting me. They were trying to make sure that I had my head on straight because if I succeeded, then they felt like they succeeded. So it was like a very, very congenial, team-like approach to helping me and others like me have that success. And the boys knew, whether I got to the league or not, cool, but if I was able to be a Rhodes Scholar,

• 15:51Speaker 04

  a neurosurgeon, change lives one day, and make an impact, and I shared the same locker room, and I shared the same facilities and same energy with them, then it felt like they won too.

• 16:02Fred Taylor?

  So there's one president in the history of this country that's been a Rhodes Scholar. Do you know who it is?

• 16:08Speaker 04

  Bill Clinton.

• 16:09Fred Taylor?

  Another politician, black guy like yourself, he's also a Rhodes Scholar.

• 16:14Speaker 04

  Cory Booker?

• 16:16Fred Taylor?

  I'm asking the smart guy the wrong question.

• 16:18Channing Crowder?

  I don't know what you're doing. Yeah, gotta get this mother.

• 16:22Fred Taylor?

  Another test, of course.

• 16:24Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, that is.

• 16:25Fred Taylor?

  But the point I'm trying to make is, and this is more so for the viewers, that's just elite company, you know, that's prestigious company.

• 16:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:34Fred Taylor?

  You know, we're talking about guys that run nations. You know, only one guy who, obviously, I guess, the latter part of his tenure as president, you know, I don't know if he was considered president for the right reasons.

• 16:49Ryan Clark?

  He did not have sexual relations with that woman.

• 16:52Fred Taylor?

  I did not have.

• 16:53Channing Crowder?

  Got a little head, man. You leave that man alone.

• 16:55Fred Taylor?

  I know, but, I mean, but as smart as, you know, what it takes to become a Rhodes Scholar. I think for me, it's simply amazing. But I wanna get into, you know, we went through probably the toughest times in our entire lifetimes. You know, most recently, the past two years with the pandemic. But, you know, following you on Instagram, all your social media, not only that, you're just a neurosurgeon, you're more than that, you're on the front lines. You know, battling, trying to save lives, putting yourself in harm's way. What was that experience like from, you know, the front line?

• 17:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was a very trying time, Fred. I mean... You know, as a brain surgeon, someone who does brain and spine surgery, someone who deals with the central nervous system, vastly different than a respiratory illness like COVID. But our whole hospital shut down where any elective or emergency surgeries were done. And as our hospital, Mass General, we are the main referral hub in New England area. You spent some time in New England, you know, it's a real major hospital for Harvard. And so we had all these COVID patients coming into our doors. And our chairman said, "Look, we need to shift gears, Dr. Roy. We need to shift gears. We need you to stop doing elective surgeries, all of us, and start volunteering in the emergency department and help triage some of these patients who are coming in."

• 18:15Speaker 04

  So basically, I had to learn about this respiratory illness, learn about the cytokine response that some of these individuals may have, learn about intubations, learn about all these different things that I typically don't do on a day-to-day basis. Being an athlete helped me be flexible. Something else that I really appreciated during that COVID pandemic was being able to be an advocate for us, Black individuals who may have a distress in the healthcare system already. And then you're seeing the disproportionate number of people who are getting COVID who look like us, poor, brown, Black, in underserved and marginalized communities, especially in Boston. You know, they were getting affected the most because they were coming in with all these preconditions and chronic conditions that they weren't being managed properly. And so we're seeing a lot of that, too.

• 19:00Speaker 04

  And so being an advocate, being on the front lines, helping people, it just was all a part of the role. And I appreciated having that opportunity.

• 19:07Ryan Clark?

  Did you see any difference in the way that Black and Brown people were treated? Or you were just saying, in having the opportunity to be on the front lines and also understanding how many people looked like you that were coming through the door with some of those preconditions and some of those things that were already existing, some of those chronic...

• 19:28Channing Crowder?

  Situations that they were dealing with, did you feel they were treated differently? Or you just wanted to make sure they were taken care of?

• 19:34Speaker 04

  So I don't think they were treated differently when they got to us. But I think what the pandemic showed, it further illuminated the gap that exists between black and brown or poor individuals and major hospitals. See, our hospital typically, it's a very, very high-end hospital where we get clientele from all over the world. If you have some of the most complex pathologies, the worst diseases, you come to Mass General Hospital and you get treated. But you have people who are black, who are right around the corner, who won't come to our hospital because they're not plugged in with a primary care physician. They don't know they have hypertension. They don't know they have diabetes. They don't know they have, you know, early-stage prostate cancer or things like that because they're not getting checked or they're not plugged into the system. They sometimes get lost in that. And so when you have these people who aren't managed or under-managed with their chronic disease,

• 20:18Speaker 04

  COVID was hitting those people a lot harder than anyone else. And so typically, I'm seeing these patients from Martha's Vineyard and from Bahrain and from UAE. And now I'm seeing, you know, Jim and John, right from Mattapan, right from Dorchester, right from Roxbury. Roxbury, where new addition Bobby Brown, those boys are from. Seeing all these people I typically don't see, it was alarming to me. So that's why I enjoy being on TV, speaking out, writing about it and saying, "Look, now we know there's a gap. How can we reach and access these people who are sort of marginalized and not getting the healthcare that they should?" The pandemic has showed us that we need to do better. Now let's do better.

• 20:50Channing Crowder?

  Did the check go down? Because as a neurosurgeon to a COVID doctor, like, you know what I'm saying? Did the check change?

• 20:59Speaker 04

  Nah, it didn't change, brother.

• 21:00Channing Crowder?

  Okay. I just wanted to make sure because it seems like you have done... You gonna get him? Oh.

• 21:08Channing Crowder?

  You see my big brother? Watch out for him.

• 21:10Speaker 04

  I appreciate that.

• 21:10Channing Crowder?

  You see my big brother? Watch out for him. He ain't want to get me bit by no damn... I don't know if he... I don't know if... I don't know what that was. I don't know if beetles can bite, but that motherfucker was a grown man. Were you gung-ho in going from neurosurgery that you worked your whole life? And you have, let's be honest, you have more degrees than the dudes that are up there. And now you're sitting there, what? Giving people IVs and putting on masks? Like, what was the transition from, you're at your goal, you're at your top? And I don't know if it came down, but it seems like you were overqualified to be a COVID doctor.

• 21:42Speaker 04

  You know, I really had to humble myself for sure and realize that this was not my expertise. I, you know, I like operating on brain tumors. I like clipping aneurysms, I like fixing deformed spines, but you know, getting someone an infectious disease consulted and trying to intubate them because they have COVID, that's not something I initially signed up for. But I realized I had to, I had to do the job. We needed bodies. You know, we had physicians and nurses who were calling out because they were getting sick from COVID. And so, we were really strapped for personnel to do the work. And so, just had to put aside my own personal career or personal interests and really just look at the patients who were coming, who were vulnerable and needed our support to go ahead and make that shift and make it happen.

• 22:24Fred Taylor?

  Do you prepare for surgery like you prepare for a game? You say you enjoy getting ready for brain tumors.

• 22:33Speaker 04

  Clipping aneurysms.

• 22:34Fred Taylor?

  Aneurysms, clipping aneurysms.

• 22:35Speaker 04

  Clipping aneurysms.

• 22:36Fred Taylor?

  Clipping aneurysms.

• 22:37Channing Crowder?

  You gonna flip an aneurysm, Freddie?

• 22:38Fred Taylor?

  I don't know, man. And spines.

• 22:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:42Fred Taylor?

  What's your mindset like going into it? Because the margin for error is very thin, right?

• 22:48Speaker 04

  It is very small, absolutely. Yeah, and I mean, and you have to look at these patients on the operating table as maybe even your family member or somebody who needs you right now. They're very vulnerable, they're coming to you for a reason. And so, yeah, I do apply what I learned in football to preparation for surgeries. Looking at CT scans, MRIs, looking at the right approach to the brain or right approach to the spine, where if you looked at the post-operative image, you'd say, I don't even know that Dr. Roll, his team was in there. I couldn't even tell.

• 23:14Fred Taylor?

  So you're quarterbacking, your team, you're quarterbacking.

• 23:17Speaker 04

  We have to, yeah. And the communication in the operating theater is just like that. You're talking, you're speaking to nurses, circulating nurses, scrub techs, device medical manufacturer reps who are in there, NSC geologists, your boss, my attending physicians who are in there. You're speaking to everybody and getting them on the same page. Matter of fact, before the case even starts, we have something called a huddle, where we talk about what we're gonna do. How long is this case gonna take? What's the estimated blood loss? What do we expect the outcome to be? Where the patient's going after the case, ICU or to the floor? All that stuff is communicated. So, I tell my mentees all the time, I say, look, if you don't know what you want to do, think about medicine, man, because the seamless transition from being a football player, being an athlete, being, having all these traits, discipline, focus, being coachable,

• 23:59Speaker 04

  communicating, teamwork, it all works in medicine, especially as a surgeon.

• 24:04Channing Crowder?

  And, and bro, to, to that point, that surgery thing, Freddie, just, it blows my mind. Freddie over there laughing now, cause it's crazy.

• 24:11Fred Taylor?

  I don't like to see myself bleeding, but you guys get to see all types of blood. That, I can't fathom that.

• 24:16Channing Crowder?

  I wanted to ask him, cause y'all have y'all huddle, and then you go to the patient, and you say, "Hey, uh, Shesherfield Johnson, I'm about to cut your goddamn head open. I'ma play in your brain, then I'ma put your skull back on." Like, like the, the pre, the pre-surgery conversation, what is that like?

• 24:37Speaker 04

  Man, you, you have to sort of be on the same level of these patients. Like, sit one-on-one, just like I'm sitting with you right now. Sit on the same level, and talk in terms and in language that they understand. Don't speak above them, don't speak in too much scientific sort of jargon. You really have to be able to communicate and present it in a way, "Look, look, this is what you need. This is the best option we have for you. We have the skill and, and the reputation and experience to do this well. We're gonna have all of the operating theater and the equipments optimized to do this the best we can. And we're gonna make sure we're doing the best we can for you." And so, if you're able to lay it out like that, I think you're able to, you know, talk to patients in a way to have them believe in you, believe in your team, uh, to do good work.

• 25:15Channing Crowder?

  Oh, so it's game, cause I know you married, I know you got beautiful kids. What you got, two set of twins?

• 25:21Speaker 04

  Two set of twins.

• 25:21Ryan Clark?

  2% weight, I was gonna get to that.

• 25:23Channing Crowder?

  I was gonna say 2% weight. Oh, so, so yeah, so I, you have charisma, man. Yeah, I like you, like, hell, you a surgeon. Yeah, we sitting too close together right now. I might shoot at you. But, no, but it really, like, you have to make your patients, like, now I won't say respect, but just, just like you and understand that you're there for them. The best, the best you can do for them is what you're gonna do.

• 25:46Speaker 04

  And no question, and you have to assure them that you are going to optimize everything in that operating room so that they're getting the best care possible. And that if they go somewhere else, they may get equal care, but they're not gonna get better care. And you're gonna say your nurses are gonna be involved. You're gonna talk about the staff is gonna be involved, materials management. Everyone is locked in to make sure that your patient experience is the best possible. And that's not a lie. I mean, we have track record of outcomes at our hospital that we do that. And that's why people come to Harvard over and over again to get cared for by us, because... You know, we do put that forward and we are serious and committed to that experience. You know, I had a time, you know, this was not an elective case where I actually spoke to a patient like this. But just talk about like just my experience in neurosurgery. There was a young lady.

• 26:29Speaker 04

  And I remember this story, you know, this was one of the wins that we had and this is what makes me feel good about doing what I'm doing. And the guys give me the ability to do it. She was in her early teens and she was dating a guy in his 30s or 40s. He got upset at her, ended up shooting her in the head with a gun, close range, not point blank, but pretty close. The bullet was lodged in her occipital lobe, right? So back here.

• 26:49Ryan Clark?

  Right there in the occipital.

• 26:50Speaker 04

  Right in the occipital lobe. Yeah, visual cortex, so affecting her vision, but she was shot and the bullet stayed in her occipital lobe. She was left to die at a local community hospital. The system worked so well that they got her to our hospital. Me and my attending took her in for an emergency surgery. Didn't go and get the bullet because the bullet was lodged next to a very important draining vessel. That if we move the bullet, she could have had torrential bleeding in her brain and she would have died on the table. But we got away the necrotic tissue, we took away some of the bone fragments, we copiously washed it out, make sure there's no infection, nothing like that. Sent her to ICU, a month later she walks out of the hospital, she's in school now. She has a daughter, she's raising her daughter, she's working, she's got a great job, she's doing a wonderful job. Her mother loves it.

• 27:32Speaker 04

  Those are the kind of wins that when you're doing neurosurgery, you feel like you were able to bring somebody back from the brink of death. And now they're able to live a meaningful life. And so that's exciting. It's phenomenal thing, man. I really enjoy it. You can probably tell how I'm talking about, how passionate I am and how much I love it. It was the perfect transition from football to now this field in my life. Because it's given me that same satisfaction every single day.

• 27:54Ryan Clark?

  You're smarter than all of us. We all agree with that.

• 27:57Speaker 04

  Hey, hey, hey, hey, speak for yourself.

• 27:59Ryan Clark?

  Especially you. And I have either agreed with everything you said. Or not understood it to the point where there was no disagreement to be had. Until this, you said, I tell my mentees that they should really think about medicine because of the seamless transition between sports and medicine. Right? So let's talk about your huddle, right? Let's say we in the huddle, right? And we, you know, we go through and we say, so, all right, Sam, me, 33, ready, break, right? Now, the worst that could happen, if we totally blow it, is they score a touchdown.

• 28:30Speaker 04

  Right.

• 28:31Ryan Clark?

  Good with that, right? You go in your huddle, okay, she got shot in the head and it's right next to a vessel, so if we remove it, she could die. All right, ready, break, somebody could lose their life.

• 28:41Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 29:10Ryan Clark?

  Like that's a, to me, that's not seamless, right? Because to me, there is no going to the sideline and being okay after someone losing their life. What are some of the scarier things, or some of the worst cases you guys have had to deal with?

• 29:25Speaker 04

  Man, and you remember the losses, you really do. They hit you. I cried about it. I actually had to call my pastor to talk me through it. It was a young girl, another child, who ended up getting hit by a driver who was sleep deprived. Matter of fact, it was a hospital worker that was working a 24-hour shift, fell asleep at the wheel. Hit this young girl. She might have been six, seven months old. And they brought her in 2:00 a.m. Doctor Roll, you gotta come in, you gotta do something. So I came in, tried to do the best I could, but her bleeding, her swelling of her brain was too great that she didn't make it. And you often feel sometimes as MD, you're like the mighty doctor. You can do it all, you can bring everybody back. But at that point, I realized my talent and my skill is limited.

• 30:10Speaker 04

  I cannot do it all. I'm just a man, I'm just a human. And if I give everything I can to that experience and to that patient, then I did all I could. The rest needs to be divine intervention. God's gotta step in and say, maybe I can do something about this. But that was hard, because you feel like, oh, man, I'm here, I'm at Harvard, I'm here for a reason, I can do this, I can bring them back. But going and telling the family that, you know, their child is now not with us anymore, it was devastating, it crushed me. I'll never forget about it. Still gets me emotional to this day. And that is the moment where you really need to lean on the people who you love. You know, my wife, my family, my brother McKinley who's here with me, my co-residents, colleagues. Just try to speak life into me, speak life into us as we go through these difficult times. Because, no offense to dermatology or something like that,

• 30:55Speaker 04

  you know, you might be removing a skin tag. That's not life or death, like brain surgery, right? There's people who can either be here or not be here. And so that was very difficult. That was the most challenging moment for me, for sure.

• 31:05Ryan Clark?

  Does that, does that ever get easier as, as you become more experienced and you have more opportunities to operate? Do you think as, as you go on, you'll be able to deal with the losses better? And is, is that, is that even something you're trying to do? Like, how do you move forward and keep that same compassion, right? Keep that same drive to save?

• 31:28Channing Crowder?

  When you cried when you lost in high school? When people cry when they lost in high school, you cry when you lost in college. But when you get to the league, you can't cry every time you lose.

• 31:36Speaker 04

  Right. Yeah, no, you can't be, uh, I would say you can't be disconnected and you cannot be immune to the feelings of wanting to help this person. You know, that's why you go into it. You go into medicine to do no harm and to try to help these individuals who have no other option. They can't go anywhere else, but they're, they're with you now. And like the Bible says, there, you're there for such a time as this. You have to do the work. And sometimes it doesn't work out the way you want it to. Sometimes your outcomes aren't as good and sometimes things are just, don't move in the direction that you want them to. You're gonna have more wins than losses and you absolutely should aim for that, right? You should aim for the better outcomes or else you wouldn't be having a job very long. But I think for me, what's helped me sort of get through that is I know my limitations. I know my human limitations.

• 32:19Speaker 04

  And I also know that the next patient that I need to see, or the next patient I need to operate on, they're not gonna be expecting me to start still thinking about the patient that we just lost or had a bad outcome. They want me to give my best to them right now, who's in front of me. And so I try to keep that in mind. Uh, and then also have those people around me who can, you know, cheer me up or speak life or things that I can do to get away from the hospital, which is working out, listening to music, listen to some Soca calypso music, a little reggae, you know, get into it.

• 32:45Ryan Clark?

  No plies?

• 32:47Speaker 04

  No plies, man. I mean, you know, I am the club. I know that song very well, you know? Had to do a stroll to that song, but nah, man, I'm, I'm into my reggae. But yeah, so that's what we, that's what we kind of get to.

• 32:56Channing Crowder?

  Is he the smartest motherfucker ever to play in the NFL?

• 33:00Ryan Clark?

  To me, absolutely.

• 33:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:01Channing Crowder?

  I can't think of it about, like, but to be a doctor, but then you talk about spirituality. You talk about like you talk to God and all. To be a, to be a doctor, do you think like, is there doctors that you work with that aren't spiritual like that?

• 33:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:17Channing Crowder?

  That aren't, like, how, how, like, when, when you're praying, like, for a patient and there's an atheist doctor, like, how do you deal with that where you're, you're going to a higher power, but some people don't think there's a higher power?

• 33:27Speaker 04

  You're absolutely right, no question. There's definitely people who separate their, um, their faith and their, their spirituality from, from the science. And to me, I, you know, that's, that's never been the way I wanted to operate. And so I stay in my lane, you know, I stay connected with what I'm doing, uh, to allow myself to be the best version of myself in that particular moment. Uh, I know that what happens in that brain, what happens in the spine, what happens in the body, is a miracle half the time. There's some things we can't even explain. I mean, the brain is beautiful and I think, and we think we know so much about it, but there's a lot that we don't know. And so that part of the unknown, that uncertainty, you know, you just have to marvel at how people can function when they've had a stroke or some major infection or some major traumatic brain injury, and they're still able to get up and have a meaningful life and have their senses and faculty.

• 34:12Speaker 04

  And you're like, how can they do this? How, how are they able to do this? It has to be someone higher than us. It has to be the Lord sort of putting his work and putting his hand onto this patient and into this situation. So I don't, I don't really sort of allow anyone else's, um, you know, faith or lack of faith to, uh, sort of, um, move me away from where I am and how I do, how I do best. Um, I know it's something that centered me when I played football and it's something that centers me now when I operate and, uh, I like to keep it with me.

• 34:39Fred Taylor?

  Channing asked a Freddie T type question. I'm gonna pivot and ask, uh, Channing that question. We all watch Grey's Anatomy, right? Yeah, we've watched Grey's Anatomy and, uh, I know you don't snitch because you just mentioned, especially being a father of a new set of twins.

• 34:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:55Fred Taylor?

  Congratulations, second set, right?

• 34:57Speaker 04

  Yes, second set.

• 34:57Fred Taylor?

  Boy and girl?

• 34:58Speaker 04

  Boy and girl.

• 34:58Channing Crowder?

  You done?

• 35:00Fred Taylor?

  To me, no, but to her, you know.

• 35:03Channing Crowder?

  You make a twin though.

• 35:03Fred Taylor?

  We're gonna have to go and get you a urologist, man. Go ahead and get you right. Two sets of twins.

• 35:08Channing Crowder?

  He be making twins, he be lingering in there.

• 35:11Fred Taylor?

  That's amazing. He has a secret.

• 35:13Channing Crowder?

  You gotta keep pumping out.

• 35:14Fred Taylor?

  He knows something that we don't know. But, uh, at the hospital, how much, how much of it is like Grey's Anatomy? Is everyone sleeping with everybody?

• 35:23Speaker 04

  Oh, man. Oh, Frat T, that's where he went, huh? Oh, man.

• 35:28Fred Taylor?

  We had to pivot. He asked my type question. I had to ask his type question.

• 35:32Speaker 04

  Oh, man, you know, I, I, I'd say.

• 35:35Fred Taylor?

  You can, you can zip it up if you want to.

• 35:36Channing Crowder?

  No, you can't, Frat, that's not what the pivot is.

• 35:38Speaker 04

  You know, we gotta be real with it. So this is what I say, this is what I say, bro. In my experience, you're way too busy to have the opportunities to go find those rooms and do those different things in the hospital, right? I mean, and there's security everywhere. You know, they, they're watching everything you're doing. And they tell you, they're like, oh, Dr. Row, you had a nice shirt on the other day. I'm like, how you know that?

• 35:58Speaker 04

  They're looking at you, so I'm not sure how much is happening, brother.

• 36:00Fred Taylor?

  So you guys are definitely practicing social distancing.

• 36:03Speaker 04

  Oh, for sure.

• 36:04Channing Crowder?

  Now, you gotta go in that room with the medicine. That's where they go on Grey's Anatomy, when you go in the little room with the medicine. And that's where ain't no cameras with the medicine.

• 36:11Fred Taylor?

  No cameras there, yeah.

• 36:13Ryan Clark?

  You already know.

• 36:14Fred Taylor?

  You already know.

• 36:14Ryan Clark?

  So, you know, we talked a lot about, you know, how we, how we got here, how, you know, how we got to, you know, this point of, of writing The 2% Way. What's life for you now? You, you know, you have the two sets of twins. Uh, I think you just recently came, you know, from, from the Bahamas. It seems like it would be so busy. I remember being so proud of you when you would come on ESPN, um, in 2020 and, and give us opportunities to know what was going on in the hospitals, what people were going through in our country. How do you find time to enjoy life, to enjoy being a husband, to enjoy being a father, and still be so excellent at a job that truly is life and death every single day?

• 36:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's a great question. You know, I think getting back to the Bahamas is huge for me, uh, seeing my family, being able to recalibrate and understand, uh, what's important. You know, being around people who I love daily. My brothers, my cousins, my wife, you know, everybody, my friends, my fraternity brothers, football brothers, everybody who's been a part of my journey, laughing with them, just doing some things.

• 37:17Fred Taylor?

  What frat?

• 37:17Speaker 04

  I'm sorry. Cap Alpha Society, fraternity incorporated.

• 37:19Ryan Clark?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, you ain't know?

• 37:21Speaker 04

  Come on, brother.

• 37:22Fred Taylor?

  Y'all gonna do the shimmy?

• 37:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, you know, hey, man, you know, we, we in there.

• 37:25Channing Crowder?

  I wanna see y'all. Shit, you are too big to be a capo.

• 37:28Speaker 04

  Nah, man.

• 37:29Channing Crowder?

  Look at your thighs.

• 37:30Speaker 04

  I was a tail.

• 37:31Channing Crowder?

  Where you gonna quirl a damn cane and all that sexy shit with them thighs?

• 37:36Speaker 04

  Hey, we made it happen, baby.

• 37:37Ryan Clark?

  Hey.

• 37:38Speaker 04

  The knees, the meat still work.

• 37:39Ryan Clark?

  All shapes and sizes, man. And as long as your shoulders stay loose, you good. You know what I mean?

• 37:44Fred Taylor?

  That's how you shimmy, huh? Yeah, they gotta shimmy, champ. Me and you, baby.

• 37:48Ryan Clark?

  I just keep, I just keep bringing better people around you guys, you know what I'm saying?

• 37:52Fred Taylor?

  We appreciate it. How can we get down to be honorary, uh, capos?

• 37:56Speaker 04

  Honorary capos, man, this, you know, it's coming around, man, you know, we don't really do honor.

• 37:59Fred Taylor?

  Y'all can't sign us up?

• 37:59Speaker 04

  We don't really do honoraries like that, um, but we'll make sure.

• 38:02Fred Taylor?

  I'm trying to take the back door.

• 38:03Speaker 04

  I can't do back door, brother.

• 38:04Ryan Clark?

  I can't do that, man.

• 38:05Speaker 04

  I can't do back door.

• 38:05Ryan Clark?

  Ain't no skating?

• 38:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, no skating.

• 38:07Channing Crowder?

  I don't work too much ass to be a capo, y'all don't fight nobody.

• 38:09Speaker 04

  But you light-skinned, so that, you know, that's, that's part of a prerequisite, part of it.

• 38:13Ryan Clark?

  Listen, light skin get you in?

• 38:14Speaker 04

  Yeah. We're light-skinned brothers, we're not, but, you know.

• 38:17Channing Crowder?

  People call me a light-skinned wonder.

• 38:19Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 38:19Ryan Clark?

  What kind of wonder?

• 38:20Channing Crowder?

  I talked to Barack earlier, Drake.

• 38:26Channing Crowder?

  I gotta call out all our, all, all, all our winners right now, we gonna call out all the winners, man.

• 38:30Speaker 04

  Oh, man.

• 38:31Ryan Clark?

  But, uh, but for real, man, like, what are you doing, man? Like, how do you find, like, how do you find the space, uh, to live life?

• 38:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 38:38Ryan Clark?

  You know, when it seems, I mean, that's a, that's a full plate you have.

• 38:41Speaker 04

  It is, it is, um, you know, but I just try to go slow with everything. I try to make sure I keep things in perspective. Um, getting back home to the Bahamas, working in the Caribbean, I have this foundation, the Caribbean Neurosurgery Foundation of, um, trying to upscale neurosurgical care for those who need it the most. I had an auntie in 2010 who passed away in Exuma, Bahamas, you do fishing in Exuma, you know it. Um, she was walking in the street, hit by a car, had a traumatic brain injury, ended up not seeing a specialist, no MRI, no CT scan, no neurosurgeon was on the island to see her. She ended up dying seven hours after not seeing anyone, and the golden. An hour of of traumatic brain injury and urgent emergent care is four hours. You need to be seen within four hours. And so I said to myself, when I became a neurosurgeon and had the aptitude to do so,

• 39:25Speaker 04

  I would try to create a foundation that filled that gap. Upscale care and do the most I can. So from doing that work and trying to, you know, inject positivity into the world to try to bridge this gap of healthcare disparities with our with our people, uh, to trying to be a father and being a husband and now doing neurosurgery, writing a book and inspire people to lift themselves up and do more with themselves than they thought they could, believe in themselves more. Just how Ben Carson's story inspired me and opened my eyes in neurosurgery. Maybe my story can do that for someone. It all feels like it's a part of the rhythm. I feel like I'm on beat. I feel like it's on pace. I don't feel overwhelmed. I don't feel rushed. Uh, and I, and it's a blessing to to sort of have that control and have that level of evenness, uh, with it all.

• 40:07Fred Taylor?

  You mentioned 2010, which is the year your aunt took home to her injuries. That was the same year you was drafted.

• 40:13Speaker 04

  That's correct.

• 40:14Fred Taylor?

  Did that, your mindset then, uh, you wanted to go, you got drafted, you wanted to prove everybody that you're worthy to play in the NFL, you know, regardless of, you know, uh, the Rhodes Scholar and and everything else you had done academically. With that injury and your aunt, you know, losing her life, did that, what was your mindset like? Did it take you to a certain place where you couldn't focus on football, where you wanted to make sure you got to do what your, your, your, your main passion was? So you can get there and and make sure you're able to save lives?

• 40:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's a great question, Fred. I mean, I think at the time I was, I was disappointed. I was let down because she was the the matriarch of our, our Behamen family. Um, but I knew that I was trying to shake a stigma that I was too smart for the NFL or that I wasn't committed to football. I remember coming to the Senior Bowl and I'm in this room. I balled out in the Senior Bowl, by the way, Fred. I mean, I came back from Oxford. I was a year and a half off. Went to Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar, came back, not played, was fourth on the depth chart in the Senior Bowl in Mobile, Alabama. And then, um, by the time Saturday came in the game, I was starting, right? That's Taylor Mays, all the best players in the country.

• 41:24Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 41:25Speaker 04

  Here balling with them, but I remember in that week, you know, when teams have to talk to you and see how you're doing. The Tampa Bay Bucks bring me into their room and it's Raheem Morris is the head coach at the time and a bunch of other guys. They're like, hey, you know, uh, Roll, do you feel like you quit on your team? Do you feel like you abandoned your team? You're the best player on your Florida State football team. You feel like you let your guys down and let them go by going to Oxford and not sticking around for your senior year? Do you love football? Are you gonna leave if we draft? I mean, Pepper and me, this question was like, like, you tell me to be a student athlete. Now I do it at one of the highest levels and now it's coming back as a black mark against me. I remember walking out of that meeting and then Raheem Morris telling me one on one, hey, you inspire my son, you're a hero for my son, I appreciate you. So he looked out for me, but the others didn't.

• 42:07Speaker 04

  And so in that respect, I said, I knew the stigma was gonna be on me everywhere I went. The NFL was gonna say this kid is just like, he's got too many other things he can can do that we're not sure if we want to invest in him. So at that point in 2010, when that happened to my aunt, I was trying to put everything into football to make them believe that if they want to talk to me about Bill Clinton or Rhodes scholarships or anything, I'm gonna pivot the conversation to speaking about Cover 2, Covering the Hash, the Skies and the Bliss packages and trying to be all in. So that was kind of how, where I was at that point in my life.

• 42:36Channing Crowder?

  So the teams, they had to ask the question and it was one of the things that I thought about when I knew, I knew you were coming on. Do you think that having those two passions, because I don't want to speak for RC or Freddie, I knew football was my out. You know, I knew football was gonna, was gonna get me where I am today, but you had two passions. Do you think that those two passions, you had to divide your attention between them? Cause you would have been a better neurosurgeon if you didn't play football or be a better football player if you weren't pre-med?

• 43:05Speaker 04

  Wow, boy, that's a good question, man. Just the pivot, baby. Yeah, that's, that's, that's a tough one. I don't know if I ever had to really think about that. Cause it, they've always been two, two parts of my life that I've embraced and walked with in my own material body. Like, I feel like this has just been a routine for me to balance academics and athletics. And, and every time we stay, we take a step forward, high school, then college, then professionals. I feel like I can continue to do it and continue to compete because every level that I played football, I was either the top or near the top. I was the number one rated player coming out of high school. And that's with Matt Stafford, Tim Tebow, Percy Harvin, Shady McCoy. There's some really good ballers in that in that class. And then I get to the league and all of a sudden it's like, yeah, he doesn't care about football. He's not committed to it. He doesn't want it.

• 43:49Speaker 04

  We should invest money into him because he can leave and do something else. And I remember I was briefly teammates with RC in Pittsburgh. And I told him, hey, man, they let me go. You know, they cut me, brother. I'm gone. I text him, text Troy, Ike Taylor, and all of them said the same thing. Bro, you did not embarrass yourself. You came out here and played well. You did a great job. And then I remember Larry Foote one time as well. Never talked to me. Larry never talked to me, man. I mean, he always had the headphones on. He just doing his own thing.

• 44:15Ryan Clark?

  Foody don't really talk to me.

• 44:16Speaker 04

  He don't talk to nobody. So after one game, he takes off his headphones. He said, roll. And I'm like, Larry Foote talking to me. What's up, man? What's up? He's like, good job today, bro. Put his headphones back on. I said, you know what? If nothing else happens, I feel that if I got the respect from the guys I played with, that I knew I can play. I knew I had I knew I had the talent to do it. But for some odd reason, it didn't work out. And this is what I will say to that, too. Why it didn't work out? I'm not exactly sure. But what I do know is that maybe God was protecting me from a bad traumatic brain injury or breaking up my finger so I can't do surgery and maybe save lives down the road. So I tried to flip it and think of it in that way to keep that perspective fresh and, and, you know, sort of on the up and up.

• 44:53Ryan Clark?

  Even being able to do that, being able to to flip it and give yourself an understanding of the way that God's grace and mercy works. Do you ever have any regrets? Right? Do you ever do you ever see? Because when when Channing asked you that question, I thought that was the most simple question to be asked on the show. And not saying that you were simple in any way, my brother. Just saying like, I thought that that would be a thought every day. You know what I mean? I would I would sit around every day if I didn't make it. And maybe because I thought about football, you know, like I wanted it, like kind of like Channing did. You know, I would have been like, man, maybe if I wasn't, you know, if I didn't take the year away or if I or if I didn't do this, football works out differently. And I think looking at it now and where you are,

• 45:35Ryan Clark?

  I can't see your life going any other way or you being in any other position than you are now. But do you ever sit back and go, you know what?

• 45:45Channing Crowder?

  If I'd have did that differently, maybe things work out different in this area.

• 45:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, there's times that I do think about that. I'm not gonna lie. I'm human, just like anybody else. I think, man, what if I had not gone to Oxford first? Because I graduated at Florida State undergrad in two and a half years. Got my degree very quickly. And so I knew I was leaving with a degree. I was gonna be okay, and I was gonna leave for the draft. So I put my name into that scouting service that they have for undergraduate students in college. And they tell me, hey, you're gonna be like a first or second round pick. I called up Samari in Baltimore. I said, what are your guys saying up there? He said, you run fast, you'd be a late first, maybe early second guy. Called up Antral, same thing. You'd be an early second guy, probably. So that's, I know if I walk into the draft in 2009 and don't take that year and a half off to go to Oxford and eat bangers and mash and fish and chips and, you know, be over there punting in the Thames River and being Harry Potter, wearing capes and all that stuff.

• 46:36Speaker 04

  I knew that, you know, my role in the NFL or my opportunity to stay longer would have been there. And so, yeah, there is that regret at times, but then I get re-centered when I hear people come up to me and say, you know what, Dr. Roll, I've used your story for my son or my daughter to realize that they can do more with their life. They can be exceptional in two areas and not feel conflicted or not feel like they had to compromise for anybody. And that's the same thing that Dr. Carson did for me. That's the same thing that the heroes in my life, Paul Robeson, Nelson Mandela, Malcolm X, did for me. And it's the same reason why we wrote this book, The 2% Way, to allow people to see that story and see the personal struggles that we've had and allow them to sort of grow from it, see themselves in it,

• 47:21Speaker 04

  and be better because of it.

• 47:22Channing Crowder?

  Yo' big black ass was playing Quidditch?

• 47:27Speaker 04

  Man, look. We had to wear these subfuss men and capes and we had to dress up like this for food. Just to go and eat in the dining hall, you had to dress up like a cape, like you were really in Harry Potter Hogwarts, man.

• 47:39Channing Crowder?

  Bro, that's serious. Really? And these are the smartest humans in the world.

• 47:43Speaker 04

  Smartest humans in the world. And the conversations you have to have around that table are like, what's happening in the UN? What's going on with the G8 summit? What do you think about NATO? What do you think about this and that? And you're like, man, what are these conversations that were had? But they're legit.

• 47:59Channing Crowder?

  And you running with a broom under your leg.

• 48:02Speaker 04

  I wish. I wish I would do that.

• 48:03Channing Crowder?

  I wanted to ask you, man, because you, the CTE thing, which is a big topic now. You said you fell in love with the brain early on.

• 48:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:13Channing Crowder?

  You love the brain.

• 48:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:15Channing Crowder?

  And so you understand the brain. But you're going out there and running into, bro, we all love to watch you play. We older than you. I came, I'm the youngest. I came out in oh five. So we all watched you play. So you understand what the brain does and you still went out there and bashed your head in the grown ass men. Year after year after year. Was that a fight mentally with you, knowing that this could mess up the old peanut?

• 48:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's a great question. Uh, you know, I, I, I honestly, I tried to remove it from my mind when I played football. I tried not to think about the damage that this gelatinous organ that can move around in our hard skull. Uh, the effects that, you know, putting my face in the fan, like R C always say.

• 48:59Channing Crowder?

  Put your face in the fan, man. That was your saying?

• 49:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, you say it all the time, all the time. You stick your face in the fan, bro. I say, yeah, let's go.

• 49:06Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 49:06Speaker 04

  So, you know, I, I, I try to suspend those thoughts because I knew, just like y'all know, I mean, a step too slow, a step too thinking about something. Then, you know, Fred's gone, right? I mean, strike of the band, it's over. Uh, so you, I, I did not, um, I would say hamstring myself by having those thoughts. Now, as a scientist now, and as a physician now, I wish that I would have thought more about it then, and I talk about it now. Uh, thinking about CTE, thinking about, uh, and we know CTE is quantum traumatic encephalopathy, these protein deposits that are in the brain. That can lead to aggressive behavior, suicidal ideations and other things like that. I wish I would have done it more then, but I feel like my recompense for not doing it then is trying to be an advocate now.

• 49:50Speaker 04

  Trying to work with the NFL and other scholars and other researchers and how we can make the game safer and preserve all of y'all wonderful men who come from the sport. Uh, because there's a lot of life to live. And like I just mentioned, you guys have, and as football players have, just the right DNA, the design to be leaders in this world. But if it's cut short based on us not focusing on our brain health, like we do for ACL tears or shoulder sprains or things like that. Then we're not doing a service to all of y'all.

• 50:15Fred Taylor?

  So for me, this is two-fold. One, do you feel a greater responsibility being that you've played the sport? And you've been in the brotherhood to solve this CTE thing? That's one. And two is, I want to, what's your favorite chapter in the book? But answer it.

• 50:34Fred Taylor?

  In the vocabulary that none of us can understand.

• 50:38Channing Crowder?

  I'll understand it, Freddie.

• 50:39Fred Taylor?

  Please.

• 50:40Channing Crowder?

  Cross my leg.

• 50:43Speaker 04

  Uh, so I'd say, um, yeah, I do, I do feel a responsibility to help in this fight with chronic traumatic encephalopathy. Right now, you can't tell if someone has it, if they're living, right? You only can tell by autopsy. Can't even tell it by diagnostic imaging. You can't get an MRI or CT scan.

• 50:58Fred Taylor?

  Even with the aggression and the...

• 51:00Speaker 04

  None of that. There, there, there is some MRI scans that can talk about connectivity, if the hemispheres are communicating, the right and left hemispheres are communicating. And some of those signals may be depreciated in people who have moderate or severe TBI. But there's nothing like getting a scan and knowing you got a tumor or a bleed or something like that. It doesn't show up like that.

• 51:18Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 51:18Speaker 04

  So you really have to go off of symptoms. Really have to go off of conditions and clinical sort of what you see in exam. And so, yeah, I do feel that there's a role for me to play as someone who played the sport, knows the aggression it takes, knows those stupid Oklahoma drills we did as young kids, and how they don't make sense, you know, to play the game well. Uh, knows that we can have, you know, airbags in the helmet or sort of cushions that are like airbags that are, that can, um, help protect our brain, that we can have sensors and a mouthpiece and the, and the helmet to understand these high velocity impacts. Adding technology, changing rules, making sure players report if they have concussions and not feel like they have to be too macho and not say if they have something because they feel like, hey, I'm not a part of the team, I'm not, I'm not strong. I don't want to be soft, right?

• 52:02Speaker 04

  So, all of that, that's important. As far as the favorite chapter in the book, man, uh, you know, for me, I think the real pivotal moment in my life, um... I like that. Yeah, you like that? Try to bring it in there. It'd have to be a chapter where I speak very, very, um, you know, profoundly about getting in a fight as a young person. Um, when I was 10 years old, this young man called me the N-word, uh, and called my mother the B-word. And those are two strikes, right? You had three strikes. You can either call me a racial epithet, talk about my mommy, or talk about my, my country. He did two out of three. So I had to put my paws on him and let him know what time it was. You know what I'm saying? You know, I know y'all had Errol Spence on here before, you know what I'm saying? So, I was, I was ready, I was ready. But anyway, so I ran the bus, grabbed him, beat him up.

• 52:48Speaker 04

  And he had to go to a hospital for his, uh, his injuries. Um, my brother and I were walking home from that fight. And we just like, okay, it's over, you know, it's done. We said our piece, we did our piece, you know, and now he won't say that anymore. But his parents actually followed us home, knocked on our door, and told my daddy, you know, cuss them out, and my daddy, not knowing what happened, he's not one of people to attack his son, so he's going back and forth with this lady. Next thing you know, we get a letter in the mail saying we need to go to the Atlantic City courthouse, uh, because they're being taken to court for this. So at 10 years old, I'm in a courtroom, suit on, looking at this judge admonish me for doing this. And I remember looking back at my mummy in the courtroom, and she is like disappointed, discouraged, that her last baby, her last pain,

• 53:33Speaker 04

  is, uh, putting her through this situation, feeling like we may get deported, like back to the Bahamas. I mean, all thoughts were going through her head. And I felt terrible by putting my parents in that position. Cause I was always a good student and always a good athlete. But I didn't feel like my behavior had to match the other aspects of my life, because they always told me, just do well in school, do well in sports, and you'll be okay. That's kinda how I felt about it, but thankfully to the grace of God, a really good lawyer, some community advocates who came and said that I was a good person. I had to do a little bit of community service. All I had to do was say I'm sorry to the young man, and it didn't end up on my, my record. And at that point, I moved away from that temper, that anger, reacting like that to people who would call me racial names, growing up in a white suburban town outside of Atlantic City, New Jersey.

• 54:17Speaker 04

  And, uh, and then I joined the school band, I went to student government, I even acted as a white Russian Jewish milkman in a school play, Phil on the Roof. I mean, I was doing, I was trying to do it all, man. And that really sort of took me from the direction, if, if I had gone down that juvenile detention, man, and gone in that bad situation, yeah, I wouldn't be here with y'all brothers right now for sure, so.

• 54:37Channing Crowder?

  How were you a white, how were you a white man that's feeling on the roof?

• 54:41Speaker 04

  I was all in, I was all in, I was all in.

• 54:45Channing Crowder?

  That was terrible casting.

• 54:49Speaker 04

  The craziest thing about it though, I had, I had, so I had five white daughters too, right? And one of the daughters I liked. And I'm like, man, this is kinda awkward. And I gotta kiss my daughter. I said, but let me get a little extra kiss. Cause I like her a little bit. Oh, man, the play director was like, nah, Mari, you can't do that. I was like, oh, man, let me try to get in. Get in where I fit in.

• 55:06Fred Taylor?

  I was skimming through chapter eight, man. I think that's my favorite chapter, Rookie, again. I'm pretty sure for you, it put a lot of things into perspective. When you go from one, you know, career, you know, to another one where you have to work equally as hard, man. And I think this book, I can't wait to dive into it. I just skimmed chapter eight, man. I, I think it's great so far.

• 55:27Speaker 04

  Thank you, brother.

• 55:28Ryan Clark?

  So, I mean, I think, you know, for, for our show, a huge part of, of what we've wanted to do from the beginning was talk about the pivots in life. And I can't tell you how many messages, DMs I've gotten with people wanting you to come on the show. Because from a, a visible standpoint, it's probably the most unusual, but also profound pivot we've seen an athlete have kind of in the prime of his life as well. It wasn't like you did this after playing 15 years and you could just let the game go. So I think I, I want you to do two things. I normally rap the show. Fred has rapped it recently. So I'm gonna let you rap it today. I want you to tell us why the pivot in life was so important to you, to where you are.

• 56:13Ryan Clark?

  Tell us when and where we can get your book.

• 56:16Speaker 04

  Well, I appreciate y'all, boys, man, I really do. First, let me start off that. I know it's, it's, um, this is a wonderful platform that I've been able to follow and see the work that you do. I have, uh, group chats back in the Bahamas with my fraternity brothers, with everybody. And we all talk about what y'all guys say on the show and what you guys do. It's real. I mean, we watch it almost like as therapy in a way. Like, hey, what'd you think about this? Did you agree with that? Did you not agree with that? RC, I've known you for over a decade or so, and I appreciate you, brother, uh, being a member of our fraternity. But just being a brother and close to me, I appreciate that. Fred, you know, I've known you since working out with Samari out here in South Florida. And I remember talking to Samari. I said, man, Fred's got some good feet, man. This boy is. Washington is at UF, man. We had to play them twice and it'd be the second time for national championship.

• 57:02Speaker 04

  But I appreciate you, brother, and obviously being a Bahamian too. And Channing, you know, it's my first time meeting your brother, but I've obviously seen you and followed you as well, dog on the field, and just how you've taken to the next level and what you add to the show. It's phenomenal. My wife loves you too, so she's a huge fan. But, you know, I think for me, man, the pivot from going from one chapter of life to another is so important. It's not something that happens overnight, right? This was like a thought about process. This was premeditated. This was something that we worked towards. And if anyone wants to box you into a category, says you only can do one or the other, refute that, deny that, move away from that and say, "Look, I can be what I want to be. I can continue to develop as an athlete, as a student, as a leader, as a thinker."

• 57:46Speaker 04

  All these things can coexist in your body as long as you have that rhythm, have that pace, and take things 2% at a time. Small victories. You don't have to accomplish it all tomorrow. You don't have to accomplish it all by next week. Just take it one step at a time and you will see that you'll have success. I think something else in the pivot for me, going from football to neurosurgery, that's been so vital, is using what football has taught me to be a good physician. And we already talked about it, communication, overcoming adversity, disciplined focus, knowing what the grind feels like. Knowing what that grind, that tough work feels like, hard work, that's irreplaceable. You can do that in any field, law, business, media, writing, literature, whatever it is.

• 58:26Speaker 04

  You can use what your prior life has taught you, infuse that into what you're doing now, have success, and lift up other people as you do it. So, we're excited about it, this book. You can get it anywhere you get your books, Barnes and Noble, Amazon. It's all on my social media pages, Twitter, Facebook, everywhere. We're excited about it. This is my first time putting something like this on paper. I really wasn't going to at the time, because I said to myself, "Man, no one really wants to hear my story right now." But I had enough people believing in me, said, "You know what? You need to." Because somebody can unlock their future by seeing your story and by hearing your pivot and hearing your transition and how you've made it, and they can do the same thing. So I definitely appreciate y'all, brothers.

• 59:04Channing Crowder?

  Man, thank you, man. That was amazing.

• 59:05Speaker 04

  We appreciate you more, man, for sure.

• 59:07Channing Crowder?

  Do your thing. I might be smarter than him. No, you're not. You're not.

• 59:13Channing Crowder?

  Appreciate you. What else? Amazing, dawg. Oh, look, man.

• 59:18Channing Crowder?

  I'm just finna get smarter, man.

• 59:19Speaker 04

  You go the other way.

• 59:22Channing Crowder?

  Freddie, RC was talking all that shit about he know more about basketball than us. His little goofy bounces on ESPN. We all garbage. We was all garbage last week. We gonna bounce back, baby.

• 59:34Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, now we suck. This week I'm gonna be better.

• 59:36Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 59:36Fred Taylor?

  Because it's Freaky Freddie on a Friday the 13th. My picks gonna be solid.

• 59:41Channing Crowder?

  Oh, I'm scared of you.

• 59:42Fred Taylor?

  My picks gonna be solid. Get on it. It's so easy, man. It's super easy, but not only that, you gotta hop in this Pivot merch. We got new colors coming. We doing so much. We out here grinding for y'all. We love y'all. Thanks for the support. But get in the prize picks. Trust me, make a couple dollars. Whatever you put in, they match it. They match it. Listen, they match it. Free money, easy money. Get it in.

• 1:00:07Channing Crowder?

  Y'all check our social media. I'm telling y'all, we gonna kill it this weekend. Go in the bio. Look at the links. We all there. Y'all come have fun with it. See if you can beat me. Because I don't think y'all could beat me.

• 1:00:17Fred Taylor?

  Anybody can beat you.

• 1:00:18Channing Crowder?

  We gonna post our pick on social media. Y'all know where it's at. Twitter, Instagram. You TikTok, Freddie. I don't know what TikTok is. Okay.

• 1:00:26Fred Taylor?

  I don't TikTok.

• 1:00:26Channing Crowder?

  Well, I'm gonna Instagram and tweet mine. Y'all let me know. Y'all hit me. Y'all tweet me. And let me know if you whoop me, but I'm telling you, I feel good about this weekend. It's big time. Playoff time. This is when you really see who can play ball, and I know who can play ball. See if you know who can play ball.

• 1:00:41Fred Taylor?

  Screenshot us your picks. We wanna see how well you did. Send it to Pivot IG page. Listen, 75% of the states, we're in Florida, so we're good. California, Texas, you're good. Everywhere else, you're good. That don't even matter. Just screenshot us your picks. Let us see how you did. Link is in the bio. Prize picks, our partner. Use the promo code PIVOT, and you're good. Let's get it.

• 1:01:07Channing Crowder?

  Watch out, y'all. I ain't gonna let y'all see too much, but watch out, baby.

• 1:01:47Speaker 05

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