Advice Line with Lara Merriken of LÄRABAR (October 2024)

LÄRABAR founder Lara Merriken joins Guy on the Advice Line, where they answer questions from three early-stage founders. Plus, Lara discusses her latest venture: a coaching service for entrepreneurs. First we meet Alison in Denver, who’s hoping to maintain her body care brand’s edge and authenticity as it expands to new retailers. Then Mariano in Miami, who’s wondering how to market his caffeinated gum to corporate buyers. And Lauretta on Long Island, a one-woman-show who’s looking to fundraise for her ginger tea brand. Thank you to the founders of Joy Breeders, Maax Brands, and Lauretta’s British Ginger T for being a part of our show. If you’d like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode, leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you’d like answered. Send a voice memo to [email protected] or call 1-800-433-1298. And be sure to listen to LÄRABAR’s founding story https://art19.com/shows/831bd173-0992-41b7-b1eb-112db904d947/episodes/eb38bc92-9780-4567-85e8-e86b93aef12a/embed as told by Lara on the show in 2018. This episode was produced by Sam Paulson with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Neal Rauch. You can follow HIBT on X https://x.com/HowIBuiltThis & Instagram https://www.instagram.com/howibuiltthis/ and sign up for Guy’s free newsletter at guyraz.com http://guyraz.com/. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Guy Raz?

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• 2:16Guy Raz?

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• 4:27Guy Raz?

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• 5:15Guy Raz?

  Hey, everyone. It's Guy here. So our team is just getting back from our holiday break. So this week, we've got a great episode from the archives, our Advice Line conversation with Lara American of Lara Bar. We'll be back with fresh Advice Line episodes starting next week. And I'll be joined by some pretty incredible guests, like Joe Gebbia, co-founder of Airbnb, and Jack Conti, who co-founded Patreon. So stay tuned. And thank you to all of you who called in so far. I cannot wait to talk through more of your business challenges in the new year. And I'm looking forward to hearing your ideas. So enjoy the show.

• 5:52Guy Raz?

  Hello and welcome to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show, who will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. You can also send us a voice memo at [email protected]. And make sure to tell us how to reach you. And also, don't forget to sign up for my newsletter.

• 6:36Guy Raz?

  It's full of insights and ideas from the world's greatest entrepreneurs. You can sign up for free at guyraz.com. And we'll put all this info in the podcast description. All right, let's get to it. Joining me this week is Lara American, the founder of Lara Bar. Lara, welcome back to the show. Thanks for having me, Guy. It's wonderful to be back. So great to have you. I don't think I've seen you since we took a run in Denver like a couple of years ago, before the pandemic. That's hard to believe that it's been that long, four years. It's been a long time because there's a period where I was seeing you all the time. You were coming to our summits and stuff. Anyway, it's great to have you back on the show. You were first on the show way back in 2018. And back then, you, of course, told the story of how you created

• 7:21Guy Raz?

  this incredible brand, Lara Bar. And of course, if anyone listening hasn't heard that episode, just go back in our podcast feed and listen to it. It is such a great episode. We'll put a link in the podcast description as well. Basically, this is back in 2000. You were in your early 30s, recently divorced, unemployed, not at a great place in life, as you described it. And you started experimenting with like your own energy bar for hikes, like basically taking unsweetened fruit and nuts and just grinding them up in your Cuisinart and shaping them into bars.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  I did. And I mean, I did not plan on starting a business. I was a passionate natural food person, always looking for great alternatives. And I found myself on a hike one day, eating a trail mix, and this light bulb went off for me. And I just knew it intuitively that I needed to follow my idea.

• 8:18Guy Raz?

  And within just a couple of years, you were selling millions of these bars. And eventually, of course, you sold the brand to General Mills. And unlike a lot of founders who kind of sell their companies and then take off, you stayed on to help the team at General Mills for quite a while to continue to grow the brand. Before we bring our callers, I want to ask you about your experience, kind of dig a little deeper. I remember you talked about one of the first things you did when you were starting the brand was you got a job at Whole Foods. You basically just got a job as a cashier and stock clerk for the paycheck in part, but also to learn about the natural food business to get like a ground

• 8:58Guy Raz?

  view of how they operated, which I thought was so, so smart. And you know, a lot of entrepreneurs have side hustles. I mean, what kind of advice do you have for people who are sort of in that phase where they're, they're starting a business and they're not sure whether they should be doing another job or to leave that job, you know, when to leave that job, if to leave that job?

• 9:25Speaker 01

  You know, there isn't one right way to do this. For me, I realized that I knew very little about the actual business. I knew that I was kind of my own core consumer. But I also, I guess the way I would liken it is I wanted to put my fantasy into a reality check. And so by getting into the business at Whole Foods, I looked at it as a paid internship and a way to get a leg in and learn directly without wasting time asking other people's opinions. I immersed myself in that environment. So I would say to people, Learn as much as you can, put yourself in situations and really open yourself up to,

• 10:09Speaker 01

  you don't know anything because you really don't know anything until you get into it.

• 10:14Guy Raz?

  Yeah. Well, Laura, I'm super, super excited that you're on to help me. Hopefully we can give some good advice here. Let's, let's go ahead and take our first caller and let's, let's have our caller introduce themselves. Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just a little bit about your business.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  Hello, I am Alison Rep. I am one of three co-founders of a body care company called Joy Breeders in Denver, Colorado, and we are on a mission to keep people moisturized without any toxins while inspiring them to rewild themselves.

• 10:46Guy Raz?

  Amazing. Okay, you're in Denver, so not too far from where Laura started Laura Bars.

• 10:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:52Guy Raz?

  And tell me about, so it's called Joy Breeders.

• 10:57Speaker 02

  Joy Breeders.

• 10:58Guy Raz?

  And it is a skincare brand. Tell me a little bit about how, how it works, like what makes it unique or different?

• 11:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, you know, it's, I made it because my, my boyfriend has a rare skin condition and I was really tired of being in the stores and checking ingredients of these clean brands and seeing that there were still toxins. And so what's different is that this truly is only five or seven, depending on the scent, pure ingredients.

• 11:31Guy Raz?

  And so when did you start making, when did you start selling it?

• 11:35Speaker 02

  I started making it about three and a half years ago and then I gave it out to people for Christmas one year and everybody was like, what is this? I have to buy this. And I never thought I'd be starting a body care company, but we launched it after listening to everybody in June of 2023. So just a little over a year ago.

• 11:56Guy Raz?

  And, and where do you guys, and how many products do you have? How many different SKUs do you have?

• 12:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, right now we have three different ones. We have two different versions of moist, which is our body moisturizer. And then we have one called Pouty Mouth, which is a lip balm.

• 12:14Guy Raz?

  Got it. And where, where do you guys mainly sell your products?

• 12:18Speaker 02

  Right now, we are in boutiques. We just got into a couple of grocery stores in Colorado. We're in a couple of stores in Hawaii. We are in some boutique motels and direct to consumer as well.

• 12:32Guy Raz?

  Nice. Okay. And what's your, what's your question for us today?

• 12:36Speaker 02

  My question is, how can we scale a niche product like ours while keeping the humor and the authenticity that define our brand as we move into these larger markets?

• 12:48Guy Raz?

  All right. We'll get, we'll get to your question in a moment. Laura, I want to bring you in. Do you, first of all, do you have any questions for Allison?

• 12:55Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, I had a very similar issue. I had this exact same question when I started out. So my, my question to you is, I've looked up your brand online and it looks really, really fun. It has a nice vibe and so far as you're selling to your consumers in these stores and online, what kind of feedback are people giving you about your product? What do they like about it? What is it doing for them?

• 13:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. So we get so much feedback that was so unexpected. I'm a licensed psychotherapist. I never thought I'd be helping people in this way, but it's such an honor. But people say, you know, I've had dry, cracked skin for my whole life and nothing's ever worked. I've tried 50 products and this is the first thing that has worked for me. They love the clean ingredients. They love that it sinks into your skin. And even though it's oil-based and shea butter-based, it doesn't stay oily, but the moisture locks in. So that's the biggest. I could go on and on, but I'll zip my lips now.

• 13:58Speaker 01

  Well, well, I hear you saying that you want to market it authentically and have that humor and authenticity. Like, what is it that people love about that aspect of it as well?

• 14:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, so one of my co-founders is my boyfriend who I made it for, and the other one is my best friend, and we are the Joybreeders. And we were dubbed that name because people would see us posting things online on our social media, and they would come to us and say, "You being your authentic selves allows me to be my authentic self." And there is just no higher honor than hearing that. And so that is, that is our bigger mission, and that's something that we want to do just through being the face of our company, right? Like showing, modeling being your authentic self.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  Well, that's, that's a, that's a great way to lead what you're about, being your authentic self. I just, I heard like taglines in what you just said. That authenticity is kind of a lead, like fun, sexy, and authentic, right?

• 15:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, we just like to play our way through lives. Like, we're always doing wild, crazy, funny things, you know? Playful is one of our biggest values.

• 15:09Guy Raz?

  Alison, one of the things that, I mean, the question you ask is like, how can we maintain our authenticity while we're, while we're scaling? And I guess, I guess what I would just kind of push back on that question is, is to ask you whether that really is a problem. I mean, I'm, I'm not sure this is a, it sounds to me more like a problem looking for a solution or a solution for a problem.

• 15:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:32Guy Raz?

  You know, I don't, I would say, don't create a problem where one doesn't exist, right? Like, to me, I think you want to focus on scale, focus or focus on sustainability, one or the other, or both, if you can. But, I mean, the, the, you know, the authenticity side, first of all, it's a word that I, I have trouble with, to be honest, because I think that it's, it's really overused.

• 15:55Speaker 02

  It's a buzzword, for sure.

• 15:56Guy Raz?

  It's massively overused, and I think that, that the more it's used, the less actually authentic something or someone is. And you often see this on social media where people say, "Be your most authentic self." And I think to myself, you're standing in front of a camera, and you are acting, and so how are you actually authentic? So I guess, to me, authenticity is when you don't actually need to or have to. Really worry about that word. I mean, you've got a product, you've got a story. You love it, your friends love it. So that's authentic. Now, the question is, to me, how do you focus on growing the product? How do you focus on getting it out there? So tell me a little bit about what you're doing. Are you working with

• 16:37Guy Raz?

  social media influencers? Are you demoing the product? Tell me a little bit about how you're you're getting the word out.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, we are demoing the product constantly, especially at these new grocery stores that we've just been in. And we are talking with a lot of influencers as well. We just went to the Newtopia Now event.

• 17:00Guy Raz?

  What is that?

• 17:01Speaker 02

  Newtopia Now is, it used to be Expo East. So it's a CPG expo. And we got a lot of unexpected attention there. We had people from big stores coming to us. You know, we've, we've just been kind of after that expo, just preparing for what those meetings are going to look like. And it sounds like we'll be in more and more stores.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  I have a follow up question is to Guy's point in terms of as you're going to scale. How have you guys looked at how you see yourself fitting into the market? Do you see yourself in grocery stores and boutique stores? And where does your product fit into the category, I guess, is what I'm asking?

• 17:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a good question. And we're kind of figuring some of that out by trial and error, but some of it we also know. We are a more luxury product. So we're not going to be in in just regular grocery stores. Probably we're in more of the niche grocery stores like Lucky's and the more natural focused grocery stores.

• 18:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think looking at where do you fit in as you're growing? As Guy said, you know, you're looking at scaling, but where are you going to scale? What does that look like? What is the consumer? I mean, I'm thinking, do you belong in department stores, right? Like, like higher end ones like Neiman Marcus or Norstrom, you know?

• 18:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:29Guy Raz?

  Because body care is a lot of places and spas and all kinds of stuff.

• 18:34Speaker 02

  Yes, yes to all those. See, you just answered the question for me. I still, I started falling into this backwards and I still am. Like you were saying, you're just always figuring things out. So, yes, definitely that is a dream. And also to be in hotels. We're working with some hotels, not being just given in the rooms, but being in their mini bars. Because people really go after that stuff when they're traveling, especially to dry climates.

• 19:03Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 19:04Speaker 02

  Guy, do you mind if I circle back to one thing that you were saying about about the authenticity piece? I think the fear is not that we're being authentic or not, but that it's not very often that you see a brand where the founders are the face of the company, they're customer facing, and it's a big, the story is a big part of it. And so as we expand, I'm just not wanting to lose that because our bigger mission really is to inspire people to, as I said, rewild themselves as we were before we even became Joy Breeders officially, if that makes sense.

• 19:42Guy Raz?

  So, I mean, so the question, I guess, is the question, how should we remain the face of the brand?

• 19:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't, I don't know how it works, right? When you start getting into these bigger stores, they don't know what they expect of you. I don't know if I'm going to need to stand my ground when we, when we start to talk to maybe, talk about maybe selling. You know, Laura, you said that you stayed on for a while. I just don't want to lose the bigger mission of, of the company as, as we move into that.

• 20:18Guy Raz?

  I mean, you've only been around for about a year now, right? I think.

• 20:21Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 20:22Guy Raz?

  So, I mean, you've got a ways to go before, I just think before you have to worry about that. I think that you've got a lot of work ahead of you. I think it's, it sounds like it's a great product and you've got interest in the product and there are people who like the product. And so, I mean, I think this is a conversation or a concern that you, that you might want to really have in like two or three years as you start to see growth and scale. It's just my, my view.

• 20:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

• 20:50Speaker 01

  I don't disagree with you, Guy. And also, Alison, Denver was my incubator place. And it's a great way to test things out. See what works. Does it work being in the grocery stores? Are you better off in a different spot? And what we did as a company is we used Denver as a testing ground. And what worked, we would do other places as we expanded the brand.

• 21:13Speaker 02

  Got it.

• 21:14Guy Raz?

  I also think that if you look at, and by the way, there are lots of brands that we've had on the show where the founders are the face of the brand. But then you look at a lot of products that are deeply tied to the founder, like Spanx and Sara Blakely, or Larabar, which is literally the name of the person that is on this call with me. And at the end of the day, it's the product. I mean, very few people bought Spanx because they loved Sara Blakely. She's lovable and terrific, but that's not why people bought the product. They bought it because it was really effective. So at the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether Alison is interesting or funny, or, you know, that's great.

• 21:58Guy Raz?

  You don't not want to be those things. But it's, do you make a good product that people like?

• 22:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, actually, a lot of things just clicked. So, thank you for that. I think I've been really message forward coming from my psychotherapist background. And what I hear you saying is if the product is good, then everything else that I've been talking about with who we are and what we're trying to inspire just comes alongside that or a little bit behind it.

• 22:24Guy Raz?

  I think so. And I think it's great that you went to the trade show and there's some interest in carrying the product. I mean, I also think that small boutiques are really effective. I mean, that's how Sunbom really began its growth, you know, by going to small boutiques in places like Hawaii. I think you mentioned you're in Hawaii, right? So Hawaii tends to be a really great place to put these things in because you've got a lot of tourists, they're walking through shops, they're looking at products, they've got time, and they pick things up.

• 22:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:54Guy Raz?

  Laura, any final words of wisdom for Alison?

• 22:58Speaker 01

  I would just use this time to just pay attention to everything going on, make sure that the product has, is stable in its packaging and all of that before you get distributed out widely, right? Like, in my world with food, it was, what's the shelf life? But you have the same thing in body care. And you want to make sure that you're dotting your i's and crossing your t's with that stuff so that you know that when you go to a bigger retailer that wants you, you're like, you're solid on that. You know what works, what doesn't, and you're still going to learn on the fly. But this is a great time to really do that research and development thoroughly.

• 23:38Guy Raz?

  Yeah, thank you. Indeed. Alison Rapp, the brand's called Joy Breeder's. Good luck. Thanks so much. All right. By the way, speaking of skincare routines, I would say in like, the last two years, I have started to do something I never did in my life. I use like, a mineral sunblock on my face every day. I mean, a friend of mine is a dermatologist, is like, if you're not using that every day, you're basically like, exposing yourself to skin damage.

• 24:08Speaker 01

  And you're on the West Coast now, right?

• 24:10Guy Raz?

  I know.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  And so, you have to, you have to pay attention to that stuff.

• 24:14Guy Raz?

  I'm out and walking every single day. You know, I'm in the Bay Area. We're lucky, we get to do that year round. So, I'm all, I'm all about it. As I approach the age of 50, I'm all about it.

• 24:25Speaker 01

  Wow. That, that's an exciting milestone for you.

• 24:31Guy Raz?

  Yeah, it's exciting. All right. After the break, another caller with another business challenge. I'm Guy Raz, and we're answering your business questions right here on the advice line on How I Built This Lab.

• 24:51Guy Raz?

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• 27:03Guy Raz?

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• 28:29Guy Raz?

  Welcome back to the Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz. My guest today is Laura Merrick. She's the founder of the energy bar brand, Laura Bar. So Laura, let's get right into it and take another call.

• 28:41Speaker 01

  Can't wait to meet the next caller.

• 28:43Guy Raz?

  Hello, welcome to the Advice Line. You are on with me and Laura Merrick. Welcome. Please tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business.

• 28:52Speaker 03

  Hi, my name is Mariano Questam. I'm based out of Miami, Florida, the founder of Max Brands, which is the owner of Max Caffeine Gum and Max Caffeine Mints. We provide an alternative to coffee and energy drinks and also provide the caffeine kick and fix that you would like.

• 29:11Guy Raz?

  All right, so Mariano, a lot of questions for you. First of all, how did you, I mean, how did you get into this business? I don't think you were the inventor of caffeine gum. I'm sure that versions of this have been around for a while, but how did you get into making this product?

• 29:25Speaker 03

  Uh, so it was it was an afternoon where kind of the light bulb went off. I was working late. And it was about four or five in the afternoon and I'm a huge coffee drinker. I used to work in in finance in New York and coffee was life, pretty much. And this day in particular, I didn't want more coffee, but I was a little bit sleepy and I I wanted more caffeine. And that's kind of where I started going down the rabbit hole of like, okay, what alternatives are there? And after a lot of research, you're right, that there were, there was uh already chewing on, I'm not the inventor of chewing on caffeine, but I did realize what was out there wasn't either very good, was very expensive or not effective, so.

• 30:10Speaker 03

  I I thought, you know, hey, I think we could do something here.

• 30:12Guy Raz?

  Yeah, I imagine that there there are plenty of people who probably want this, right? Like, people have to work late or and by the way, does it have the same effect? Let's be honest, because when you drink a lot of coffee, you have to go pee or or something else. Does this have the same effect?

• 30:29Speaker 03

  Guy, I'm so glad you asked that question. When when I started this company, my focus was on people and, you know, finance and and people that work late.

• 30:39Speaker 03

  And when started going and and showing the product off to people, I started to realize this is much bigger. You've got the Uber drivers, the truck drivers who appreciated this because they didn't have to go to the bathroom after drinking coffee. Educators, uh, athletes, athletes, I had never even thought of athletes. And athletes end up being like a huge segment in this world because they don't want to drink a lot of coffee or an energy drink and then go run a few miles. Like, they don't want that slush in their stomach, so. The world of what this product, um, who it's applicable to and who find a lot of benefit to was a lot bigger than I originally thought. Uh, and that was very eye opening for me.

• 31:23Guy Raz?

  Got it. And from what I gather, this was at one time available in in some stores, or I think even maybe in Walmart, but it's not anymore. Now it's you're mainly selling direct to consumer.

• 31:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely right. Um, we sell directly to the consumer. We we are in about fifty smaller stores. Uh, we had a test to run with Walmart.

• 31:44Guy Raz?

  All over the country or just in Florida?

• 31:46Speaker 03

  It was all over the country. Originally, it was going to be a hundred stores and it ended up being four fifty and so it was quite a ride, learned a lot. Um, we kind of got some uh guidance from the buyer in terms of how to package this for the candy aisle, which ended up hurting us just logistically.

• 32:04Guy Raz?

  Put you in the candy aisle?

• 32:05Speaker 03

  Yes, correct.

• 32:07Guy Raz?

  And is that where you want it to be? Did you want this product to be alongside just regular chewing gum and candy?

• 32:13Speaker 03

  Well, originally, we did. We did. Um, it was either that or the sports section, but you know, it ended up being a pretty big issue and we're back online. I am, you know, still fighting to get into stores.

• 32:25Guy Raz?

  I mean, awesome that you had that opportunity and and and you learned a lot from that, but basically people were confused, like, what is this? Is it a supplement? But it was in the candy section, a lot of confusion. Before I, before I get to Laura, uh, what's what's the question you have for us?

• 32:43Speaker 03

  Right, so it's actually based on what I I just talked about. Just a little bit of background. We we, since we left Walmart, uh, we've tripled our sales online, more than tripled our sales online. We continue to grow the brand. The category itself is growing. There's data behind this. And yet we're having trouble getting our foot in the door with some of these major buyers. I understand they're inundated, but my question would be that, how how do you get your foot in this in these doors?

• 33:11Guy Raz?

  Yeah. Laura American, a lot to unpack here. This is a cool, cool idea. What are your thoughts on this?

• 33:18Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, I think it's a very innovative product and I like that you've taken gum and caffeine because it's it's a very easy to use product for people, right? Gum's everywhere, caffeine's everywhere in the form of, you know, coffee mainly and energy drinks. And um, my question to you is, where are people going to buy this? I was thinking as you were talking, where would I go to buy this? But what are you finding out about the marketplace right now?

• 33:49Speaker 03

  It's a great question. We, we, uh, some of the stores that we're in have put us actually next to energy drinks as well. Uh, it sells well in those places. We haven't had many people put in the supplement section. Um, and then we have had people put it in the candy section. So in terms of just trying to figure out, you know, where it sells more. And obviously that's a function also of is there enough shelf space to put a product like this? Cause you know, energy drinks in that section is very full. So we've had to find ways around it. We actually started selling them in like clips. So you can hang the bags. You don't have to move anything. So.

• 34:29Guy Raz?

  Mariano, what is the, the competitive landscape like? Cause there, there have to be other caffeine gum brands out there.

• 34:36Speaker 03

  Absolutely. Yes. There's, there's a couple of other brands, big, big brands. Um, they've done a great job. I will say that when I started looking into this stuff, the problem I had was, um, I didn't like, it didn't feel like gum. Oreo is so expensive. And one of the things we really wanted to do with this gum is we, we, we did put a lot of caffeine into each piece. We put a hundred 25 milligrams of caffeine per piece.

• 35:03Guy Raz?

  Just more than what I'm seeing from the competitors. They have like 50 to 60 grams.

• 35:08Speaker 03

  Correct. And our goal was like, we want you when you chew this and that you feel it like, like you are ready to go, ready to take on anything that's going on in the day. Um, and that was our goal. So, you know, just for the listeners, a hundred 25 milligrams of caffeine is equivalent to about a cup and a quarter of coffee. Uh, so we really wanted that to be a differentiator.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. You're packing a punch, right? So that to me is a competitive advantage over what's going on in the marketplace and why somebody would want to bring you in to compete with somebody else.

• 35:43Speaker 03

  Correct. Also another, another big thing we have going for us, we're cheaper. Um, and that was done, that was done absolutely by design. We, when we saw what the pricing was out there, we were just like, why would anyone pay this much? Cause at the end of the day, we're going to be compared to chewing gum, right? So why would anyone pay so much more for chewing gum? I understand it's caffeine. There's definitely a value add there. I don't, um, but. To be paying 10, 15 times with normal chewing gum, I didn't think that was right. So one of the things we really set out to do was provide a better product with more caffeine, at a lower, more affordable price.

• 36:22Guy Raz?

  You know, one of the things that I think is interesting about the opportunity here is that everything that you've talked about, you've told us here in this conversation, is not reflected in the product when you see it on the shelves. Like, where you want to start in the storytelling side of it is with the packaging and with your whole kind of theme on your website. It says, "World's Strongest Caffeine Gum," but what does that tell me? It doesn't tell me anything. I need to understand all the things you just told me in just a few words, right from the get-go, on the packaging, on the website, in your brand bible that clearly, you know, you haven't put together and you should put together because it's going to really help you.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  I would agree. I had the same issue. So when I started Larabar, it was, you know, fruit and nuts. And nuts have a lot of fat in them, and people would freak out about the fat. And I would have to figure out...

• 37:16Guy Raz?

  So dumb.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:17Guy Raz?

  Good fat. It's good fat. You need that fat.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  At the time, no one was on that bandwagon, Guy. Nobody had educated us. And so I had to, as a company, lead the way. And I had to articulate it in a way that it was fun for people and interesting, and they felt like they knew something. So as Guy was pointing out, like, if you want people to pick your product up, you've got to make it compelling. Why is gum and caffeine compelling? Right? And then I'm going to go back to, you were talking about, they want to put you in the candy aisle. I had the exact same problem. I remember we were getting into a major retailer, and at the time, I wasn't clear about where I saw Larabar. And they decided, out of nowhere, to put it near candy bars.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  That would have been the kiss of death for us in terms of going straight out of that store, because we didn't belong with candy bars. We were a nutrition bar, a healthier version, kind of indulgent and delicious. And I really pushed back, and we didn't end up going into that retailer, which was a good thing, because you have to be in the right spot where people are actually going to find you.

• 38:25Guy Raz?

  Absolutely, absolutely critical point here, I think, which is sometimes even when the opportunity seems amazing, you've got to stick to your principles and your vision around this product, right? Like, this is not candy. To me, I mean, this is something that you would discover at a GNC, right? Or in the protein powders aisle at Whole Foods. And where I think you have an opportunity, right? You've got 125 grams of caffeine. That's what, 30 grams more than the cup of coffee. And to me, it's like you could have a tagline on your bag that literally says, you know, "Rocket fuel for your workout."

• 39:09Guy Raz?

  You know, I understand you're trying to reach people, Uber drivers and nighttime people and hospitalers, but maybe you want to just start by focusing on one of those categories? And the other ones may follow naturally. You know, it's like you start with a tribe. Lara started with hikers. Now Lara Bar is consumed by, it's a mass consumption product. What do you think, Lara? And you can disagree with me, Lara. You can tell me that I'm full of it.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  You're not full of it. You have great ideas, guys. You're a natural entrepreneur. I think it's very smart, like little test groups. You know, you can test the Uber drivers, you can test the athletes, you can do your own little focus groups and figure out who's using it and why they're using it, what is it doing for them?

• 39:54Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  If you lead with curiosity, people will tell you a lot. And I would also say that, like, people do know what caffeine is, but they don't know, right? They know they go to, say, Starbucks to get their coffee or the coffee shop, but what are you offering that's different than that? Like, how can you replace that? Like, for Lara Bar, it was portable food, right? You're eating real food still, but you're on the go and you still have that quality there.

• 40:25Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 40:26Guy Raz?

  Yeah, simple messages, simple value proposition, "Feel your workout," whatever it says, but it's a simple few words on there that tells me what it is. Because Max doesn't do it. It's not, caffeine gum is not enough.

• 40:41Speaker 03

  Okay, perfect. I appreciate the advice, guys.

• 40:45Guy Raz?

  Thanks. Thanks for calling in, Mariano. The product's called Max Caffeine Gum. Good luck, man. Thanks for calling in.

• 40:51Speaker 03

  Thank you. Appreciate it.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  Bye.

• 40:53Speaker 03

  Bye.

• 40:55Guy Raz?

  I mean, I think I'm gonna try this. I'm gonna get, I'm definitely gonna try this. I am too. I love tea, I love coffee, but I think there's a great market for this. It's just a matter of connecting with people, right? Yeah. All right, let's take another quick break, but we'll be right back with another caller. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to The Advice Line, right here on How I Built This Lab.

• 41:38Guy Raz?

  Welcome back to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz and today I'm taking calls with Lara American. Lara, what did you say? Let's, let's bring on another caller. That sounds great. All right, let's, let's bring in our next caller. Hello, welcome to the show.

• 41:52Speaker 04

  Hello, thank you for having me on the show. I'm so excited.

• 41:56Guy Raz?

  I can tell. Tell us, tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business.

• 42:02Speaker 04

  Okay, my name is Loretta Nocuacha. I am the founder of Lauretta's British Ginger Tea. It is a New York-based company and I am currently in Costa Rica. And Lauretta's British Ginger Tea is a blend of unique proprietary functional ginger-based beverages.

• 42:20Guy Raz?

  Hmm. Okay, so let's kind of break this down. So this is ginger tea made with ginger root, like, like it's, it's strong and spicy, right? Like it clears your sinuses, kind of ginger.

• 42:32Speaker 04

  It is so strong and spicy. I mean, I give the option on the bottle, on the label, that if it is too much, you can water it down with, you know, so that you don't get the potency, but you still get the health benefits. And you can have it hot, because we Brits, we love to have our tea hot and we have several cups a day. So you, I actually drink it hot. And then on, on the weekend, I drink it cold, straight out of the fridge, with a bit of tequila.

• 42:58Guy Raz?

  So Laura, how did you, tell me about the idea behind the product? I mean, was it, were you in food and beverage? What were you doing? How did, how did you start this thing? Or why?

• 43:08Speaker 04

  Darling, darling, I'm not even in any, like, I don't come from business. The only business I came from was show business. I am an actor and singer and I've done it pretty much my whole life. I went to the Royal Central School of Speech and Drama in London. The same school that Judi Dench went to.

• 43:26Guy Raz?

  Oh, okay.

• 43:28Speaker 04

  So, yeah. Um, anyway, so then, okay. Fast forward 2009, I'm pregnant with my first child in New York. And like many women, I had awful dreadful morning sickness. Now, morning sickness is supposed to last for the morning for maybe the first trimester, i.e. the first three months.

• 43:46Guy Raz?

  Yes.

• 43:47Speaker 04

  Now, mine went on all day for about six months.

• 43:50Guy Raz?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 43:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, marvelous. So what I did was, my doctor said that ginger is really helpful to kind of quell the nausea. So I would sip on ginger ale. I'm not really a soda person, but I would sip on this thing and it helped a little bit.

• 44:04Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 44:04Speaker 04

  Fast forward five years, I'm pregnant now with my second child in 2014. I said, you know what? I know what to expect this time. I'm not bloody gonna drink ginger ale. I'm gonna find something else that's gonna help. My doctor recommended that I take anti-nausea medication. I said, no way, I'm making a human, I don't want medication.

• 44:24Guy Raz?

  No, yeah.

• 44:25Speaker 04

  She, she suggested ginger candy. I said, okay, let me give it a try. It was basically sugar.

• 44:30Guy Raz?

  Yes.

• 44:31Speaker 04

  I thought, well, I don't need diabetes while I'm pregnant, so no. So I, my husband, God bless his soul, my husband was the one who said, listen, why don't I just go to the store, pick up some ginger root, you can slice it up and make your own?

• 44:45Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 44:45Speaker 04

  And that was the first time I'd ever set my eyes on ginger root. So I sliced it up, boiled it up, it worked, it was amazing, and I loved the way that it tasted. So I would drink it every single day. It helped with the nausea and I've been drinking it every single day since 2014 when I made this.

• 45:03Guy Raz?

  I love this. And, and by the way, ginger also anti-inflammatory. It's a great, and it's just an amazing root. You just, it's so, there's so many things you could do with it. Okay, so. This clearly is helped was helping you. And then at what point did you say, you know, I'm going to turn this into a business. I'm going to bottle this up and try and sell this.

• 45:24Speaker 04

  Well, I've got my sister Helen to thank for that because basically I would make batches of tea when any of my friends would get sick. I knew that ginger was helpful for, you know, colds and flus. So I'd make them a batch, deliver it to their house for free. So my sister saw me making these little mini bottles, very cute little things, showing you how to make a hot toddy. So a little bit of brandy, then my ginger tea. Yummy. So she was like, Helen, she was like, Laurie, why did you keep giving this away? Why aren't you selling this? I said, okay, I don't know anything about business. Why would I start? She goes, I don't know. Research it. I was like, okay, I did it. September 2021, I made my first sale in the farmer's market in my little town of Babylon, Long Island, New York.

• 46:06Speaker 04

  And so I then managed to basically take bottles and go to various stores, all the sort of health food stores. And it had to be refrigerated. The shelf life was so short, like six weeks. So I had to realize that, okay, I have to do something to extend the shelf life if it's possible and also get it out of the fridges.

• 46:25Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 46:25Speaker 04

  So I took everything off the shelves, literally a few months ago, while I started working on fundraising to try and figure out a way to have it formulated.

• 46:34Guy Raz?

  So you haven't been able to figure this out yet? You're still at this point where you're trying to figure out how to make it shelf stable or how to make it last longer, right?

• 46:41Speaker 04

  Yeah. And also get out of plastic bottles. It doesn't align with what I'm trying to give people, this helpful, helpful drink.

• 46:48Guy Raz?

  I love this. I love this. Okay. So, and are those basically your questions? Like, how do I figure this out? Or do you have an additional question?

• 46:57Speaker 04

  Well, my question is, how the bloody hell do I fundraise when it's tough to, you know, I've applied for so many grants, pitching events, all of that stuff. But how do you fundraise effectively when you're just doing everything yourself?

• 47:11Guy Raz?

  Yeah. And can you give us a rough estimate of how much you've put in already? Like several thousand dollars?

• 47:18Speaker 04

  Twenty five thousand.

• 47:19Guy Raz?

  Right, okay. So, so, I mean, that's not an inconsiderable amount of money and, and, and obviously you've got something worth pursuing. But here's, here's where you have a massive competitive advantage versus every micro brand out there in all categories. You are an actor. You have a background in acting. You have incredible charisma. You are a, a just a fair, you, there's a, an infectious quality to your personality. And to me, it feels like you can really use those qualities to build this brand up slowly and methodically. One simple idea, I thought, for, for funding is to try crowdfunding.

• 48:03Speaker 04

  I just tried it. I just launched my I Fund Women. I Fund Women, I just launched it. Kickstarter failed terribly because I didn't have instruction as to what to do once I set the page up.

• 48:11Guy Raz?

  But then try it again, or try a different one. But you're trying one. Because everything you've said here is so interesting. It makes so much sense. It's the story, it's the product, it's what, it's what is done for you. I mean, this was, it really helped you in your pregnancy. What a great way to start marketing or, or telling a story around a product. And so that's where I think you have an opportunity to start to raise a little bit of cash and to see if you can, you know, maybe raise another 20, 25 grand and find, you know, hopefully other people who can help you kind of begin to take this to the next level.

• 48:52Speaker 04

  And do you trust, I mean, Lara, I know you were also doing this by yourself. So how, how do you trust that you're even doing what you're supposed to be doing and not wasting time on things that you're not supposed to be doing because you don't have the other, the other eyes and ears on you or working with you to say, listen, no, that's no good, let's try this instead. Like, right now, this is a great group for me. I can, you know, this is great education, but I don't have that every day. So how do you, how do you do that?

• 49:19Speaker 01

  You know, I, I really led with optimism and I was really passionate, as you are. And that passion and optimism. Is future and forward thinking.

• 49:31Guy Raz?

  Yes.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Is really what it's about. I actually just got a degree in that, in positive psychology. Cause I'm so curious about.

• 49:40Guy Raz?

  Your second life and career, we haven't even talked about.

• 49:42Speaker 01

  I know, I know. And I, cause I'm just so interested in what about the human condition and what compels us as human beings. And I think entrepreneurs are very forward and future thinking people. And so to Guy's point about you, you've got it. I face those same peaks and those same valleys that you're going through right now, which is, why am I going to do this? Why? I mean, when, at the time I had my idea, everybody thought I was completely out of my mind. I had, I was dealing with an oversaturated category, which it still is today. Yet there was still room for something new and different. So there is always a way, right? If there's a will, there's a way. And you've, you've got it going on.

• 50:24Guy Raz?

  And there's so many ways to really push this out. You know, cold and flu season, just a sipping beverage, anti-inflammatory. I mean, there's, as we speak today, the New York Times has an article about anti-inflammatory foods, and I believe ginger is right on the front of that article.

• 50:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, of course it is. And even for like, you know, for, at one point I was talking to someone about trying to maybe get into the hospital, you know, the shops in hospitals because of cancer patients. My mother died in 2006 from stomach cancer and watching the effects of chemotherapy and nausea is a huge side effect of it.

• 51:04Guy Raz?

  Huge.

• 51:04Speaker 04

  Right? And it just, it depletes your energy. It just, it kills you literally, right? And I just thought, my God, if I had, if this had come across my path, my, my brain, when my mother was still alive, this would have helped her enormously. Yes, it won't cure cancer, but it would help those after effects. I can't, I can't scream it loud enough from any mountain top. The fact that I drink this every day, literally, the minute it touches my mouth, I'm like, oh. Every day, every day.

• 51:33Guy Raz?

  It just, it just like chills you. Yeah, I, I'm, I'm, I think it's a great idea. One of the ways to do it is you, you start with who you know, you start with literally your closest friends and you just ask them, can you put in 500 bucks? Can you put in a thousand bucks? You go to, you know, if there's a community group that you're in, if there's parents at school and you just, you have to put yourself out there and say, no big deal if you, you know, it's a lot, it's a big ask, but I'm trying to raise money and you'll have equity, you'll have a stake in this thing. And, and I really believe in it and I'm, I'm trying to raise about 20, 25 grand to go, go to the next phase of it.

• 52:10Speaker 04

  It's that discomfort of asking people for money. Like I'll ask a stranger if I have to, but with my, my friend group and whatever, you know, I'm the one that kind of helps with advice and, you know, and sort of wisdom, et cetera, et cetera. Thanks to my mommy. I very rarely ask for help in that sense. Like to ask you for money, I'm the one that will lend you the money. So how do I, I was just thinking while you're talking, do I just pretend I'm a different character? And, and to ask them for money? And that makes me even thinking of, I'm stuttering.

• 52:43Guy Raz?

  Laura, Laura, let's put on your positive psychology degree here.

• 52:47Speaker 04

  Yes, yes, please.

• 52:48Guy Raz?

  Asking is hard. It's asking is very hard for a lot of people. It's very hard. It's hard for me. I'll be honest with you. But I do think that if there's one thing I've seen in, in almost 700 episodes of How I Built This is that virtually every entrepreneur on the show has figured out how to get over that and how to ask for help. Laura?

• 53:07Speaker 01

  It's so true. It's just, it's creating a new habit. I mean, you're asking for feedback right now. You've already taken a huge step. You, you, you're on this program. You've already asked, like you have it in you to do it, right? And you just have to just little, little steps, one thing at a time, right? You're not going to get to the top of the mountain tomorrow, but one little ask at a time. Everybody has their own way of asking, right? Like, I agree. I don't like asking either, but I, I like it to be like a natural fit, right? Like I like to connect with people because it, it's just like, we have a similar thing. And I did that with, with the stores when I got in the stores. I was like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna knock down the doors of people that don't believe in me,

• 53:52Speaker 01

  but I'm gonna go where the energy is flowing, right? The people that believe in me. And, and people like that. So that's what I would do. I mean, if you don't ask, you never know.

• 54:04Speaker 04

  I know. And if you don't ask, you don't get. Oh, I have all those. I, ooh. Okay.

• 54:11Guy Raz?

  All right. You got this. You got this. Lauretta's British Ginger Tea. Look for it. Look for it in your stores. One day. Um, Loretta, congrats. Good luck. We're cheering you on.

• 54:23Speaker 04

  Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  So great to meet you.

• 54:27Speaker 04

  You too.

• 54:30Guy Raz?

  So Laura, we are at the end of another episode of, of Advice Line. And, um, it's so cool to hear. One of my favorite things, and I mean, I'd be lying if I didn't say it was one of my favorite things is when people call in or people stop me at, you know, airports or wherever. And they're like, I listen to this show every day, building my business. It's so heartening because that's why we do it. That's why we brought you on all those years ago. We, we do it for that reason, to get, to give people the energy to keep going when it's hard.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think we all need inspiration. I'm still inspired by the show. I'm an entrepreneur and I listen to these episodes and every time I learn something, I learn it. I love learning new things and, and understanding how there's a lot of different ways to get there.

• 55:15Guy Raz?

  Yeah. And, and I should mention, we, you are embarking on a new chapter in your life. I mean, you, you built and scaled a successful company and brand. You've been an investor and a mentor. I know you were doing that for a long time, still do a lot of that. Um, but you on the side went on and did like a graduate degree in psychology, right?

• 55:35Speaker 01

  I did. It was typical of me on a whim. Um, you know, just like Laura, but I didn't plan it. And I, I had my undergrad in psych and I was a social worker.

• 55:45Guy Raz?

  Right.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  Many years ago. And then I got into this program and then I started dissecting, how did I get to where I was as, as an entrepreneur, using grit and resilience, perseverance, optimism, all of that stuff. And I just realized like, this is where I really want to put my energy and how I want to help people. Using those, you know, these core concepts.

• 56:07Guy Raz?

  It's so cool. Congrats. And so, and, and so tell me a little about how, how you're thinking about, about doing that.

• 56:14Speaker 01

  Well, it's early stages, Guy. But one of the ways is, is really coaching people. I think that I've learned, I've done a lot of that myself, and it really helps me. And when you, you know, coaching is about leading with curiosity and really asking people those questions. I mean, you're very good at that on your show. You, you're curious. You ask people really crucial questions that get them to think. And so I'm starting an organization with a cohort member of mine, and we're going to do educational pieces and coaching and just make it really fun and approachable. As entrepreneurs, you know, we, it's not

• 56:55Speaker 01

  just the business prowess, it's the psychology behind it. How do you get up every day? You know, Loretta, like, how do you keep going when you're faced with an obstacle? What, what do you do? How, how do you get the inspiration? How do you reach out when you don't feel like you want to reach out?

• 57:11Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 57:12Speaker 01

  You know, I think we all need that support.

• 57:14Guy Raz?

  Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on to the Advice Line.

• 57:18Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me. Such a pleasure.

• 57:22Guy Raz?

  That's Laura American, founder of Laura Bar, and more recently, co-founder of Anthr, a coaching service for entrepreneurs. By the way, if you haven't heard Laura's original How I Built This episode, you've got to go back and check it out. You can find a link to it in the podcast description. So just scroll down, check it out. And here is one of my favorite moments from that interview.

• 57:45Speaker 01

  Well, the trademarking attorney called me at the 11th hour, and we were getting ready to launch. It was the year 2002, summer. And she said, I think you're going to need to change the name. And I just thought, you're joking, right? I've left working at Whole Foods, and we're supposed to be launching, but we don't launch. And everybody's backing out because nothing's happening.

• 58:10Guy Raz?

  Thank you so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to sign up for my newsletter. You can sign up for that for free at guyraz.com. And every week, we put in tons of insights from entrepreneurs, my own observations and experiences interviewing some of the greatest entrepreneurs ever. If you are working on a business and you would like to be on this show, send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business, the issues or questions that you'd like help with, and hopefully, we can help you with them. And make sure to tell us how to reach you. You can send us a voice memo at [email protected] or call 1-800-433-1298 and leave a message there, and we'll put all this in the podcast description as well.

• 58:54Guy Raz?

  This episode was produced by Sam Paulson with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella, and our audio engineer was Neil Rouch. Our production staff also includes Alex Chung, Elaine Coats, Carla Estevez, Niva Grant, J.C. Howard, Chris Messini, Devin Schwartz, Catherine Seifer, and Kerry Thompson. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to How I Built This.