Dr. Gabor Maté: Constantly Worrying What People Think of You? (THIS Simple Shift Will Help You Trust Yourself and Stop Seeking Approval)

In this special live conversation at the Orpheum Theatre in Vancouver, Canada, Jay sits down with renowned physician and trauma expert Dr. Gabor Maté for a deeply moving exploration of identity, healing, and the hidden patterns that shape our lives. Gabor explains that our obsession with how others perceive us often begins in childhood, when our fundamental need to be seen and understood isn’t fully met. In response, many people unconsciously adapt, hiding parts of themselves or becoming who they think others want them to be in order to feel accepted and loved. In this episode you'll Learn: How to Stop Living for Others’ Approval How to Break Generational Trauma Patterns How to Know If You’re Living Your True Life How to Stop Tying Your Worth to Productivity How to Recognize When Stress Is Hurting You How to Listen to Your Inner Voice Again How to Start Saying “No” Without Feeling Guilty How to Practice Self-Compassion Instead of Self-Criticism How to Turn Your Past Coping Patterns Into Healing How to Ask the Question That Changes Your Life Real change doesn’t come from forcing yourself to be perfect or trying to fix everything overnight. It begins with small moments of awareness, pausing long enough to listen to that quiet inner voice, asking honest questions about what feels true for you, and giving yourself permission to honor it. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty JAY’S DAILY WISDOM DELIVERED STRAIGHT TO YOUR INBOX Join 900,000+ readers discovering how small daily shifts create big life change with my free newsletter. Subscribe here: https://news.jayshetty.me/subscribe Check out our Apple subscription to unlock bonus content of On Purpose! https://lnk.to/JayShettyPodcast What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 00:41 Why Do We Care So Much About Others’ Opinions? 03:10 Learning to Love People the Way They Need 04:53 How Childhood Shapes Our Need for Approval 06:46 The Dangerous Belief: “I’m Only Valuable If…” 11:02 Why Do We Feel Guilty When We Rest? 12:37 What Stress Is Really Doing to Your Brain and Body 16:19 Saying “No” Is Essential for Your Wellbeing 21:05 The Power of Asking Yourself Honest Questions 23:44 How to Listen to Your Gut Again 29:52 A Live Compassionate Inquiry Session 33:23 Your Healing Is Helping Your Children 35:08 Trusting the Wisdom Already Inside You 36:53 Your Coping Mechanisms Aren’t Failures 40:11 Turning Past Mistakes Into Lessons 41:45 Balancing Self-Improvement and Self-Acceptance 47:54 The Question That Can Change Your Life Episode Resources: Website | https://drgabormate.com/ YouTube | https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsRF06lSFA8zV9L8_x9jzIA Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/drgabormate Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/gabormatemd/ X | https://x.com/drgabormate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 2:10Jay Shetty?

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• 2:35Gabor Maté?

  At some point, something has to happen for you that causes you to wonder, who am I really? And everything that I manifest and speak and do, is it designed to fit out of people's expectations? Or does it line up with who I really am?

• 2:56Jay Shetty?

  I truly am so excited to be here tonight at the Orpheum Theatre in Vancouver with a dear friend, someone that I consider to be the utmost expert goat, the greatest of all time in its face. Like, there is no one like Dr. Gabriel Mate.

• 3:14Gabor Maté?

  Could you say more about that?

• 3:18Jay Shetty?

  We've been talking tonight about

• 3:22Jay Shetty?

  worrying about how we're perceived by others.

• 3:25Gabor Maté?

  Yeah.

• 3:25Jay Shetty?

  And how that blocks us

• 3:28Gabor Maté?

  Yeah.

• 3:28Jay Shetty?

  from things in our life.

• 3:30Gabor Maté?

  Yeah.

• 3:31Jay Shetty?

  Where does that come from? Why is it that we're so obsessed and addicted to what people think about us?

• 3:38Gabor Maté?

  Well, it's a great topic and I think in this culture, it's a fundamental one. There's a wonderful Catholic monk and mystic called Thomas Merton, who talked about how we live in other people's minds.

• 3:55Gabor Maté?

  So when we're concerned about what other people think of us, how they see us, perceive us, judge us, love us, hate us, we're not living in ourselves, we're living in other people's minds.

• 4:06Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 4:06Gabor Maté?

  So where does that come from? One of the needs of the human child, it's an essential need. Just as we have the need to be held physically, to be fed, to be nurtured, we also have the need to be seen. Because we get to see ourselves the way others see us. When the parents can't see the child in the child's essence, in the child's... Well, the great psychiatrist and co-writer with Oprah, Bruce Perry, has written a book called Born for Love. And we're essentially born for love. It's a developmental need. And love isn't just how other people feel about us, it's do they see us?

• 4:48Gabor Maté?

  And if they can't see us for who we are, for who we are because of their own limitations, and a lot of parents have trouble doing that, I certainly did, then the child wants to be seen in a positive way by their parent. And then they'll change themselves, hide parts of themselves, exaggerate other parts of themselves, basically create an image that they want the other person to see, because they can't see their real person. So really, it comes from our earliest relationships where we were not seen for who we are. Had we been seen for who we are, we would just accept ourselves and not be so concerned with how other people see us. So it goes back to our earliest days. In homes where the parents actually loved the child.

• 5:32Gabor Maté?

  We're not blaming the parent here. We're saying that the parent's own limitations prevent them from seeing the child for exactly who they are, then the child will mold themselves into whoever the parents wants them to be.

• 5:46Jay Shetty?

  Wow. How do you see someone for who they are and not who you want them to be? Who you think they could be? Or just the best parts of them? Because what I'm hearing is that's what we end up doing, right?

• 6:00Gabor Maté?

  Yeah, well, that's the key question, and...

• 6:06Gabor Maté?

  Somewhere I heard you say that people love you, but they may not love you the way you want them to love you. And we actually have trouble loving people the way they need to be loved. We think that love is the feeling that we have for them, and that's certainly true. But it's much more than that. You can have all kinds of loving feeling towards somebody, but be limited by your own traumas from seeing them for who they are. And then, and also a lot of parents in this culture wants their kid to fit in with the culture. Now, that means you have a preconceived idea of who the child should be.

• 6:52Gabor Maté?

  And then, when you don't see the child as the way you want them to be, you're dissatisfied with them. Another child will behave in more impetus to fit themselves into the parent's expectations. So it's, it comes from this culture's incapacity to see people who they actually are.

• 7:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I mean, as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking about just the amount of moments there are in our lives where the person's trauma creates new challenges for us.

• 7:27Gabor Maté?

  Yeah.

• 7:28Jay Shetty?

  That doesn't get healed, that then gets passed on. How do people in this room, how do we all make sure that we are people where that cycle stops? That we can break that cycle, that we can interrupt that pattern? That we can be the people in our families, in the lives of people who have children? Even if you don't choose to, how do you become the person that changes that trajectory for your family?

• 7:54Gabor Maté?

  At some point, something has to happen for you that causes you to wonder, who am I really? And everything that I manifest and speak and do, is it designed to fit other people's expectations? Or does it line up with who I really am? And people get to that point, and that's what they call the midlife crisis, actually. And all of a sudden, you start wondering, whose life am I leading anyway? I certainly went through that, still going through it. Eighty-one years old and still going through a midlife crisis, you know?

• 8:31Jay Shetty?

  See, you're not too old, Atiyah. Twenty-six is alright. You're doing just fine. You're doing just fine, Atiyah.

• 8:38Gabor Maté?

  So, but what I'm saying, Jay, is there has to be a questioning there. At some point, you have to recognize that it's not working the way

• 8:49Gabor Maté?

  that feels good in the heart or in the gut. So there has to be that recognition, then there has to be a curiosity. Now, you're asking about the future generations, but the way we gift future generations is by actually working on ourselves. Not by trying to be better parents, but by actually dealing with our own stuff. That's the way we avoid as best we can passing it on to the next generation.

• 9:24Jay Shetty?

  I think one of the ways the inner critic and that inner voice keeps us imprisoned is that it makes us believe we're only valuable when we're busy.

• 9:36Gabor Maté?

  Yeah.

• 9:37Jay Shetty?

  We're only valuable if this, right, fill in the blank.

• 9:40Gabor Maté?

  No, no, no, wait a minute. Did the guy who just starts a thirteen-city tour in two weeks just ask me that question?

• 9:49Jay Shetty?

  You can't expose me on my own show, God.

• 9:53Gabor Maté?

  Look, I just, believe me, my wife's in the audience, and she once said to me, "Buddy, you've written a book called 'When the Body Says No', "You better write one called 'When the Wife Says No'."

• 10:09Gabor Maté?

  Precisely for the same reason.

• 10:12Jay Shetty?

  That's so good, that's so good. You didn't answer my question.

• 10:15Gabor Maté?

  Sorry? Sorry, I missed what you said?

• 10:18Jay Shetty?

  No, I was saying, yeah, I mean, me included, we definitely have that belief that I am valuable if, and fill in the blank, it could be, I'm only valuable if I'm busy, I'm only valuable if this person says I am, I'm only valuable if I get promoted, I'm only valuable.

• 10:36Gabor Maté?

  I know, and we do have this idea that we're only as valuable as how we appear or what we do, but not for who we are. And again, it goes back to very early days and I've often talked about something my friend, the great trauma psychologist, pioneer, Pierre Levine, said to me a couple of years ago. And Pierre is, I think, a year or two older than I am. He's done an amazing work in the world, one of my mentors. And Pierre said, "If I ask myself, have I done enough?", the answer is very much yes. But if I ask myself the question, "Am I enough?", I still don't know the answer, you know? And in this society, we're very much programmed

• 11:20Gabor Maté?

  to identify our value, what we do. And it's very interesting when I talk to people about it, because people will tell me, "I'm only as valuable as what I do." And I ask them this question, "Do you value me?", I talk about myself as a human being. And they say, "Yeah, of course." I say, "Okay, what if, God forbid, tomorrow, I'd have a stroke and I couldn't speak, and I couldn't move, and I couldn't give anything to anybody? Would you say to me then, 'Gav, you're worthless'?" And they say, "Of course not." I said, "Then why are you saying it to yourself? Why are you saying to yourself that you're only as valuable as what you do? So that there's this inner concept that

• 12:05Gabor Maté?

  I'm only as valuable as what I do or how I show up. There's a tremendous lack of self-compassion."

• 12:12Jay Shetty?

  Wow. That's, yeah, yeah, please give it up. That's...

• 12:20Jay Shetty?

  I've never thought about it like that. And the distinction you just made between those two questions.

• 12:26Gabor Maté?

  Yeah.

• 12:26Jay Shetty?

  Have I done enough? Am I enough?

• 12:29Gabor Maté?

  Yeah.

• 12:29Jay Shetty?

  How do we learn to give a positive, genuinely true answer to the second one? How do we rewire when the whole world is telling us like what you do is who you are? Your title, your followers, your Instagram bio, right? The whole world is telling us that. How do you kind of even begin to remaneuver how the mind is being programmed?

• 12:54Gabor Maté?

  Yeah, well, it's... I can't say that I've fully worked it out, but two things come to mind when I hear your question. One is, would you say to a one-day-old baby who can't do a thing? Would you ever say to them or believe about them, "You're not enough"? And of course, you wouldn't. Then why are you saying it to yourself? Okay? So that's the first answer. And then the second answer is, who's even asking? Who, you know?

• 13:40Jay Shetty?

  Gabor, on the flip side of feeling like we only have value because we work hard, a lot of us are guilty or feel guilty for resting. If you look at the studies in the United States,

• 13:52Gabor Maté?

  Yeah.

• 13:53Jay Shetty?

  High percentages of people don't use their annual leave. And the annual vacation in the US is far less. I'm hoping in Canada, people use their annual leave. Uh, yeah, there you go. Uh, and in the UK, we definitely use our annual leave. Uh, but, but there's that sense that we all still feel a slight guilt for resting. We feel a guilt for taking a break.

• 14:19Gabor Maté?

  I can totally relate. When I was a busy and workaholic, filmy doctor, literally, and, you know, I used to deliver babies and look after pregnant women. I'd feel terrible going on holiday with my family because somebody might give birth without me. It's like, imagine, somebody in the world is born without me.

• 14:42Gabor Maté?

  How's that? How did humanity survive all those millions of years? But there's that voice in me that says, "I'm committed to that patient, I have to be there." And in the sense of guilt that I'm actually looking after myself, that comes from that same belief, that we're not enough unless we're doing something. That lack of valuation of ourselves just for being.

• 15:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. That resonates so strongly. And so many of us are constantly challenged by it. Walk us through what's actually happening to the brain when we stress ourselves physically or get close to burnout? What's actually happening to us that we don't see the invisible effects? We know that we get tired, we get exhausted. But what's actually happening inside that we often miss?

• 15:34Gabor Maté?

  Well, so, stress, by the way, we Canadians can be proud of the word "stress" because it actually was coined right here in Canada, in the way that we use it today.

• 15:46Jay Shetty?

  I didn't know that.

• 15:47Gabor Maté?

  Yeah, I know, a lot of people don't. It was coined by another fellow Hungarian of mine called Janos Schorhan Seljai, S-E-L-Y-E, who was a physician and researcher who came to Canada in the early 20th century, just after the First World War. And he did his research on stress at the University de Montreal in Montreal. And he's the one that showed in a laboratory the impact of stress on diminishing the immune system, overgrowing the adrenal gland, which is the stress gland, and ulcerating the intestines. And he's the one that... The word "stress" wasn't new, but the way he used it was new. He's the one who established it internationally.

• 16:31Gabor Maté?

  And the thing about stress is it's an essential response to life challenges. If you're confronting a threat, you're better of a stress response, which means you'll have activation of your nervous system in a good way and it makes you more alert. You'll have more adrenaline to give you more energy and strength to fight back. More cortisol that gives you more blood sugar to have energy for the challenge you had. In the long term, that's a positive and necessary physiological response of all animals. In the long term, those same stress hormones, and this is something that my profession, the medical profession, I only wish would understand and practice more,

• 17:15Gabor Maté?

  is that in the long term, those same stress hormones give you high blood pressure, constrict your blood vessels, high risk of strokes and heart disease, thin your bones, so you got osteoporosis, suppress the immune system, or can even turn it against you, so you get autoimmune disease, make you depressed, put fat on your belly, so that you're more at risk of heart disease, turn on genes that can cause cancer, turn off genes that can protect you against cancer and cause inflammation in the body. So this is what we all bring on ourselves, and people don't realize how, because they've taken on these driven values of this culture, they're actually literally making themselves sick.

• 17:58Gabor Maté?

  And sometimes it takes an illness to wake people up. And I don't recommend that way of waking up, but my God, it works that way very often. One of the Greek playwrights, Aeschylus, wrote in a play called Agamemnon, written 2,400 years ago. And he said that the way that the gods created us, human beings, that we have to suffer into truth. You have to have pain to wake us up to reality. And unfortunately, too often, it's the stresses that we impose on ourselves that then create pain, illness, dysfunction, that then wake us up. That maybe the way I'm living isn't the way I'm meant to live.

• 18:42Gabor Maté?

  But I hate, I hate, I don't hate it. I regret that that's why people have to wake up, but it often is. Certainly, I have to be dragged kicking and screaming to the truth. I don't gravitate there automatically.

• 19:03Jay Shetty?

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• 20:04Jay Shetty?

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• 20:46Jay Shetty?

  If someone's sitting there right now and wondering, Gabbo, I noticed stress early.

• 20:53Jay Shetty?

  I can see it's getting worse. What do I do? Where do I start? What should I be thinking about doing? Changing, shifting? If I want to walk out of here tonight and I want to really prioritize this because I don't want to end up with that long laundry list of pains in my life, what should I do? What would you say?

• 21:10Gabor Maté?

  Well, um, read my books.

• 21:16Gabor Maté?

  But, uh, uh, well, actually, actually, I did mention a book I wrote called "When the Body Says No", which is the whole point, is that when you don't say no, the body will say it for you in a form of illness. In my most recent book that we've discussed before, "The Myth or Normal", there's actually a whole chapter on this. And when I say this, this simple question to the inquiry that you just made for that person, I would say, "Where in your life are you not saying no?" And by that, I mean, there is a no that wants to be said, but you're not saying it because you're afraid of how the world will perceive you. You're afraid that people will not like you. You're afraid that people

• 22:00Gabor Maté?

  might be disappointed in you. Where is there a no that your organism wants to say, but you're not saying it? Start with that. Uh, where this week did I not say no? Where today did I not say no? And that usually happens in two arenas of life, in personal relationships. It happens all the time in personal relationships. Um, and in work, where there's a no that wants to be said, but you're not saying it again to you. That the no that you're not saying is going to be a source of stress for you. So that's the first question. Other questions follow, but that's the first one. Where am I not saying no?

• 22:38Jay Shetty?

  That's a great first question.

• 22:40Gabor Maté?

  Yeah.

• 22:40Jay Shetty?

  Everyone resonate with that? That idea of where am I not saying no? That resonates so strongly with me because I think you're spot on. We all, we were talking about that in the first half. We were talking about that inner voice. That if you just sit and listen to it, but we're moving so fast, we're so busy, that that no can be really quiet. And it's like this little whisper that's barely getting through.

• 23:02Gabor Maté?

  Well, that small still voice that the Bible talks about, right? And there's a related question as well, which comes later in this same exercise, you might say, which is where am I not saying yes? There were times in my life where I had certain creative urges or desires, but I was too busy not saying no, that there was no space for me to say yes to what I wanted to say yes to. So those two questions, where am I not saying no? Excuse me. I just came back from a 12-day speaking trip, so my voice is saying no.

• 23:35Jay Shetty?

  I hear you.

• 23:37Gabor Maté?

  Yeah. I'd like to see you at the end of this trip.

• 23:43Gabor Maté?

  But those two questions, those two little words, yes and no, they're crucial in people's lives. They're small little words in every language. They're very short little words. You know, German, nein, Hungarian, nem, Russian, net, you know, French, non. Really short little words, but they're just decisive in people's lives. And it's very interesting. Those of you that have been parents, what is the word that your kid starts saying at one and a half? No. Put your shoes on, no. And you think, as a matter of fact, I had a friend,

• 24:27Gabor Maté?

  I've told this story before, I had a friend called Harold, who had a son called Ben, and we were medical residents at the same time. This is decades ago, it's like 47 years ago. And Harold, the father, says to his son Ben, who was two years old, Ben, do you want an apple? And Ben said, no, I want an apple. And what that's about is the, is nature putting a barrier for the child behind which he can develop his own self. And before your yeses mean anything, you have to go to say no. And in this society, we call that inner stupidity. We call that the terrible twos.

• 25:11Gabor Maté?

  When it's perfectly natural. So we start with that word and then we stifle it in people. And at age forty-five, they don't know how to say no.

• 25:22Jay Shetty?

  It's so interesting because I feel like our mind convinces us, I don't know if you're like this as well. Our mind convinces us that I can't say no.

• 25:30Gabor Maté?

  Yeah.

• 25:31Jay Shetty?

  Like, "Oh, my God, I just couldn't." Like, "If I, Gabor, if I started doing that, my life would just fall apart. I can't do it. Like, it's not possible." And our mind says, "Oh, no, and I can't say yes to this because..." So we almost kind of fool ourselves.

• 25:44Gabor Maté?

  Well, we do. And, and, and the Buddha said twenty-five hundred years ago, in so many, almost in so many words, that with our minds, we create the world. Now, if you've, if your mind lives in a world where you saying no threatens you, then you're not gonna say no. No. What the Buddha didn't say is that, which is more modern psychology, is that before the minds create the world, the world creates our minds. So if you grew up in a family where your no wasn't respected, where it was seen as a sign of disrespect, disobedience, something to be suppressed or punished,

• 26:28Gabor Maté?

  and your acceptance dependent on your acquiescence, then you'll forget how to say no in order to protect yourself. So it, it, it starts off as an adaptation. Sometimes when I give my lectures, I play a song by Elvis Presley. Did you see that wonderful documentary by Presley, about Presley called "The Return of the King"?

• 26:49Jay Shetty?

  I haven't seen that one, but...

• 26:50Gabor Maté?

  Okay, it's wonderful. He, he, he goes through this phase where he sings terrible songs, where he gives upon his incredible charismatic energy and talent, and he just becomes a puppet in the hands of his manager.

• 27:05Gabor Maté?

  And then he does this comeback concert. And he shows up on stage, dressed like a god, in leather clothing. Just the most beautiful man on earth. And he sings his raw, raucous, ribald, wonderful rock and roll. And he's fully himself. But then he gave that up. And he sings this song called "Any Way You Want Me." "That's the way I'll be. I'll be strong as a mountain, or weak as a willow tree. I'll be anything that you want me to be." And that's how he ended up living his life. Ended up dying, very young, in very tragic circumstances.

• 27:48Gabor Maté?

  He's somebody whose raw genius was of world significance. And his energy was unbelievable. And he gave it all up.

• 27:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's a...

• 27:59Gabor Maté?

  And he paid a heavy price.

• 28:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, those stories, and when we have hindsight, can be so powerful for us.

• 28:06Gabor Maté?

  Yeah.

• 28:06Jay Shetty?

  Even if we're not living that life, or whatever it may be, they're so powerful for us to look back on. And tonight, I wanted to make this an extremely special experience because I want you to know just how deeply grateful I am that you're here today. And I've asked Dr. Gabor, as my first guest, if he was comfortable leading and guiding an individual who wanted to go through his compassionate inquiry personally in this seat up here tonight. And so if there's anyone who's going through something, feels like they've been held back, feel like they've been challenged, who wants to, before we take questions, would like to go through a process in front of the audience, he'd happily walk you through.

• 28:49Jay Shetty?

  So if you want to, just raise your hands, and I'll have a look around.

• 28:53Gabor Maté?

  Well, thanks for coming up. I hope you're not nervous. There's only a thousand strangers, a thousand strangers watching you. What would you like to talk about?

• 29:02Speaker 03

  I'm on your chapter on attunement, attunement. And I guess I would love to hear it from, from your point of view because I think I'm really trying, as of this week, to stop trying to explain myself and refine my instinct and listen to my gut.

• 29:20Speaker 03

  And I would just stop trying to be seen, stop trying to explain myself is something I'm really working on right now and something I want to pass on to my children and would really love to see how that starts. And I think you guys kind of gave a really good intro to that today.

• 29:37Gabor Maté?

  All right, thank you. So are you concerned about if you don't figure this out, that might affect your children somehow?

• 29:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:45Gabor Maté?

  Okay, well, let's start with the beginning. How old are your kids? Is it one and three?

• 29:50Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 29:51Gabor Maté?

  And how old were you when your mother began to work on herself?

• 30:00Speaker 03

  That's a tough question.

• 30:02Gabor Maté?

  Well, what's the answer?

• 30:04Speaker 03

  Um, probably now.

• 30:07Gabor Maté?

  Okay. What would it have meant for you if your mother had begun to work on herself when you were one years old?

• 30:15Speaker 03

  It would made a big difference.

• 30:16Gabor Maté?

  How so?

• 30:21Gabor Maté?

  You would know who you were.

• 30:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 30:24Gabor Maté?

  You've already given that gift to your children. Notice that, okay? Because you've already begun that work. You've already began to answer those questions, ask those questions. So you've got nothing to worry about. That's the first point. Okay? The second point is, who's the one who's even asking the question? Who's the one that notices that sometimes you don't follow your gut? That sometimes you don't listen to your heart? Who's the one in you that notices that?

• 30:58Speaker 03

  Me.

• 30:59Gabor Maté?

  Yeah. So you're already here. You say, "I'm trying to be myself." You don't have to try anything. It's already here. You just have to pay more attention to it. Not that part of you that sees and asks. Can you check in with that in your body? What does that feel like in your body?

• 31:24Speaker 03

  Peace?

• 31:26Gabor Maté?

  Yeah. Peace, but you said it with a kind of a scrunched up face, "Peace."

• 31:36Gabor Maté?

  Just checking again. I'm not criticizing you. I'm just noticing. Like you're not quite ready to believe yourself. So, checking again. That part of you that notices and is committing, committed to being you and is committed to helping your children be themselves. How does that part feel like inside you?

• 32:01Speaker 03

  Confidence.

• 32:02Gabor Maté?

  Thank you. Now, I noticed how you said that? With absolute confidence. What else do you need to know? Is there anything else you need to know? I'm asking you.

• 32:18Speaker 03

  So, how do you just be confident?

• 32:22Gabor Maté?

  You just did it. You know what you do? You're checking with your body. This thing that I'm doing is called compassionate inquiry. It's a therapeutic method that I've helped to develop. And we teach it internationally, online. You can look it up online if you want to. But it's based on the fundamental belief that there's nothing wrong with anybody to start with. That everything, for example, you're disconnecting from your gut feelings was an adaptation. But that the truth is inside you. And by asking the right questions, the truth will emerge. It's as simple as that. And I think the audience has been witnessing that truth emerging from you very easily.

• 33:08Gabor Maté?

  That's my sense, unless you're pretending, which I don't believe you are. Okay? So, just keep asking yourself. "Where am I not saying no?" Today, if I didn't pay attention to my gut feelings, not judge yourself for it. "I didn't, you know, screw up again." But, huh, I noticed I didn't pay attention to my gut feeling today in that situation. I wonder why not? What did I believe at the time? So, just keep asking yourself. Just keep showing up for yourself, which is what you're already doing. So, I'm telling you, you're on the right track already. Far more than I was at your age, by the way. Okay?

• 33:51Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 33:52Gabor Maté?

  You're very welcome.

• 34:01Gabor Maté?

  Thanks.

• 34:10Jay Shetty?

  I really love that method. And I hope as you were listening, you were practicing on it on yourself like I would.

• 34:18Gabor Maté?

  Right, right.

• 34:19Jay Shetty?

  Because as I was listening in, there was a real sense of just how we constantly think we're not on the path.

• 34:29Gabor Maté?

  Yeah.

• 34:29Jay Shetty?

  We constantly think we're not doing the work. We constantly think that there's something wrong with us and something broken.

• 34:35Gabor Maté?

  Right.

• 34:36Jay Shetty?

  And you were just saying, actually, that is the challenge, that, you know.

• 34:40Gabor Maté?

  Yeah, and I'm saying that, whether for you or for me or anybody in this audience, whatever you think is wrong with you, at some point served a purpose. So for Christina, at some point, disconnected from her gut feelings served the purpose of being accepted by the people that she had to be accepted by. It wasn't a mistake. It wasn't a moral failure. It was an adaptation. The problem is that these early adaptations then become ingrained, and that which was helpful in one situation becomes a limitation in another situation. But asking yourself the right questions will get us back to source.

• 35:24Gabor Maté?

  I, if I may mention, I'm wearing this bracelet here. And I was given this in Haida Guaia, which is, as people in British Columbia know, that it's a beautiful set of islands in the north of our province, where indigenous people have lived for something like 10,000 or 12,000 years. And then it was colonized and they were treated terribly. And I gave a trauma workshop up there a year and a half ago. And an elderly woman came up to me, and I've told this story before, of she was so ashamed of herself because she forgot her native tribal national language. And I said, "Well, what happened to you?" And I was given this bracelet at that workshop.

• 36:06Gabor Maté?

  And she, what happened was, she went into residential school, where indigenous people had to surrender their children to the state and to the church. And she made the mistake of speaking her native tongue, at which point they took a stake and they beat her.

• 36:25Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 36:26Gabor Maté?

  Her forgetting her language at that point saved her life.

• 36:32Gabor Maté?

  And then she was ashamed. I didn't fight back. I said, okay, you were five years old. Could you escape? No. Could you ask for help? No. What would happen if you fought back?

• 36:47Gabor Maté?

  They might have killed me. So not fighting back, what she's judging herself as cowardice, was actually her organism's wisdom to save her life. And what I'm saying is that all these things in ourselves, that's an extreme example, but all these things in ourselves that we berate ourselves for, judge ourselves for, criticize ourselves for, they began as adaptations. We need to be very kind to ourselves. And that's why I'm saying compassionate inquiry. There's a spiritual teacher who says that only when compassion is present, will people allow themselves to see the truth. Well, that compassion needs to be extended to ourselves. And then we can extend it to others as well.

• 37:31Jay Shetty?

  Oof. It's so...

• 37:33Gabor Maté?

  Yeah.

• 37:45Jay Shetty?

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• 38:31Jay Shetty?

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• 39:15Jay Shetty?

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• 40:00Jay Shetty?

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• 40:31Jay Shetty?

  It's so powerful for me to hear that from you because I think we're so good at saying, "Oh God, the last three years were just a waste of time, but now I figured it out."

• 40:40Gabor Maté?

  Yeah.

• 40:40Jay Shetty?

  You know, "That job that I was in 10 years ago, I just, I should have left it earlier." You know, "That relationship." We're so good at berating, as you said, and just saying, "Oh, that was a waste of time." And it's almost like, "Well, no, no, no."

• 40:52Gabor Maté?

  Yeah.

• 40:52Jay Shetty?

  It wasn't ideal, it wasn't helpful.

• 40:54Gabor Maté?

  Yeah.

• 40:55Jay Shetty?

  It wasn't easy, it wasn't comfortable, it wasn't nice. But it's aided you, it's helped you, it's served you, and you're so right that...

• 41:03Gabor Maté?

  Well, you know what? The great German philosopher Nietzsche, he said once that we... I'm paraphrasing him, but he said, "We talk about these dead ends that we went down." He said, "There are no dead ends, we just found out that that wasn't the way to go." "So we didn't waste any time." Thomas Edison said, he was once asked, "What did it feel like to have failed 1,999 times to build a light bulb until you finally got it?" And he said, "I didn't fail 1,999 times to build a light bulb. I found out that there was 1,999 ways not to build a light bulb." And so much for our dead ends and our mistakes and all these things that...

• 41:48Gabor Maté?

  You know, we had to do it to find out, to find out our reality, that's all.

• 41:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. I wanted to give you all an opportunity this evening to ask questions to Dr. Gabor Maté, as we have him here for the last few moments. If you would like to ask a question, I'm gonna come out into the audience and hand you a mic. So raise your hands, and I'm gonna come and find you. So, yeah, keep them raised so I can see you.

• 42:14Speaker 04

  Even as an adult, in my experience of working with many different people in marketing and business, and when you say no to someone right away, whether you have a reason to, people abruptly shut down. They don't hear what comes after the no. So what I've been doing with my children, I'm also a school counselor, so I talk about diplomatically saying no. Saying, like, just that pause moment for you to share your no without saying no right away. What are your thoughts on that?

• 42:47Gabor Maté?

  Well, Eckhart Tolle, who's another Vancouver-based teacher, internationally very well-known, I'm sure very well-known to this audience, he talks about a high-quality no. So there is, it's kind of an automatic, resentful, reactive no, which doesn't get across, it just creates more resistance. Or there's a high-quality no, where you're really honoring yourself, and you're not making the other person wrong, you're just saying, "No, that does not work for me, and I will not do that,

• 43:32Gabor Maté?

  and if you can't accept that, it's not my problem." I don't know if that answers your question, but that's what comes up for me.

• 43:48Gabor Maté?

  And by the way, I thought I heard you say that you had cancer at some point. Well, in my view, not, that's one of your body's way of saying no, is through illness, you know, and I've seen that all the time.

• 44:00Speaker 05

  So my question is, as an indigenous person, who's had family that went to residential school, as I get more serious, my partner, we're talking about children, how do I know if I'm healed enough to not pass on that trauma?

• 44:20Gabor Maté?

  Well, some friends of mine, who made a film about my work called "The Wisdom of Trauma", are just releasing a film this month. It's called "The Eternal Song", and it's about indigenous wisdom around the world. And what they, and they, they came to Haragua, they came to northern Bhishkondya, Africa, South America, Australia, New Zealand. They spoke everywhere to indigenous people. And the eternal song, the universal message, everywhere, is about the importance of learning

• 45:00Gabor Maté?

  from the heart and unity with nature, unity with the whole world. And when I speak in indigenous communities here in Canada, what I stress is that your own traditions, that they try to, they try to kill in you. And, you know, one Canadian politician said about the residential schools, that the intention is to drive the Indian out of the Indian. So, when you ask me, how do not to pass it on to your kids? I say, first of all, as I've said before, working on your own trauma, but also as much

• 45:42Gabor Maté?

  as possible, connect with that deep wisdom in your own traditions, that would be so beneficial, not just for your people, but for the whole society. And I think it's one of the tragedies of modern civilization. I just did a speaking tour in Australia. In Australia, there have been indigenous people for 60,000 years, a continuous culture for 60,000 years. Canada is not 200 years old yet. Do you think in 60,000 years, they might have learnt a few things? Do you think in 60,000 years, there over there, or your people here, might have learnt a few things, that would be worthwhile for the rest of us to learn? So what I'm saying respectfully in response to your question is, deal with your traumas,

• 46:27Gabor Maté?

  work them through, but also go back to your own wisdom, because there's so much there that is healing, the unity, the chanting, the drumming, the dancing, the, the, um, the sundancing, the cedar brushing, the, um, what do you call it, the smoke that you, certain plant, you know, the, um, the sweat lodges.

• 46:58Gabor Maté?

  There's so much there, so combine modern trauma work with your own traditions and I think you'll have the perfect brew. That's my best advice to you. Thank you.

• 47:18Speaker 06

  So I'm just wondering, relating actually to your previous conversation, how does one balances the desire to self-improve and self-acceptance?

• 47:31Gabor Maté?

  You see some kind of a contradiction between what you call self-improvement and self-acceptance? Can you tell me a bit more about that? What is the contradiction that you're perceiving there?

• 47:42Speaker 06

  The way I see it is for you to want to improve in the first place, you might see maybe yourself as not enough in some situation or facets.

• 47:56Gabor Maté?

  And that's true. If you're working on self-improvement, you're making some kind of an accusation against yourself. But how about if you just put the two together as how can I reach my full potential? And ask yourself that question? Then there's no contradiction. How can I reach my full potential? And what is keeping me from my full potential? There's no accusation in that. There's no self-judgment in that. There's no self-ejection in that. It's just as how can I reach my full potential? And that is a lifelong process, but it's a beautiful one. And there's no contradiction in it. I hope that answers your question.

• 48:38Speaker 06

  It did. Thank you so much.

• 48:51Speaker 07

  Hi. I've been on a similar journey currently as Jay Shetty. I grew into wanting to help people. Since a really young age, I've always wanted to just be there for my friends, for my family. And I think one of the things that I've been, that have limited me a bit is just feeling too young to help people, to give guidance or to, you know, just... And yeah, I recently started a YouTube channel. And like I was saying, um, I feel like there's just a lot of things for me to still learn. And I feel sometimes too young to be spreading out whatever it is that I know.

• 49:34Speaker 07

  And like what we were talking about earlier, like feeling like I'm gonna be judged or be looked at as like, what do you know, you know? But um, I'm 22 years old, so I do feel really, really young still. And yeah, and so I guess just my question would be, how do I, how do I, I guess, tap into that wisdom that I have without feeling like it's not enough?

• 50:00Gabor Maté?

  What I heard you say is that you feel that you're too young. And you have a fear that other people will judge you as too immature, as just um, not ready to make a contribution. That's what I heard you say, okay? Now, um, I can think of lots of people at age 22 who were recognized geniuses by the time they were 22. Mozart was one of them, you know? Um, he was composing stuff when he was 11 years old. You know, so that ages got nothing to do with it, that's the first point. Second point is, when you say, "I feel I'm too young", that's not a feeling. Feelings are, "I'm tired, I'm hungry, I'm sad, I'm angry",

• 50:45Gabor Maté?

  those are feelings. "I am too young" is not a feeling, it's a belief. Okay, can you see the distinction? Okay. If a friend of yours, like at age 22, I was at university and I was writing columns for the student newspaper, would you have come to see, would you have come to me and say, "Gabor, you're just 22, you're too young to write anything", would you have said that to me? How come you wouldn't have said that?

• 51:26Speaker 07

  I think, well, I think one of the things that I see is that, like we were talking about earlier too, I...

• 51:35Gabor Maté?

  Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm just asking you a simple question.

• 51:41Gabor Maté?

  You're 22 and you're saying to yourself, "I'm too young." But you would not have said that to me at age 22. I didn't have YouTube, there wasn't YouTube then, but there was a newspaper that I wrote for. Why would you have not said to me, "God, you're too young to do this"? How come?

• 52:02Speaker 07

  Because you're not me.

• 52:04Gabor Maté?

  Oh, so there's different rules for you and me, is that right?

• 52:07Speaker 07

  No, but I think I would just automatically think that you're good.

• 52:13Gabor Maté?

  Well, here's what I'm thinking. Are you willing to apply the same rules to both of us?

• 52:19Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 52:19Gabor Maté?

  Then just apply the same rule to yourself. And as a matter of fact, even if a friend of yours who's your age said, "Hey, I got this idea of a YouTube channel, I wanna make a contribution and express myself," would you say to them, "Hey, you're too young"?

• 52:34Speaker 07

  No.

• 52:35Gabor Maté?

  Okay, so again, notice what I referred to before as the lack of self-compassion. And just notice it. Now, don't judge yourself for lacking self-compassion, just notice it. And then make an effort to treat yourself the way that you treat me or anybody else. And you'll be just fine. Now, you know what? People may judge you, that's totally true. That may be true, so what? What's the headline? "Human Being Is Judges Other Human Being"?

• 53:14Gabor Maté?

  People judge me all the time. I mean, just go to the YouTube channels, you know, all this stuff of mine and lots of wonderful comments, but some people say, "This guy bores me to death." And one of them, actually, I love this one today. It was on a political issue that, obviously, this person didn't agree with me, but they said, "Gabor obviously has dementia." Okay? So what?

• 53:45Gabor Maté?

  Okay?

• 53:47Speaker 07

  Thank you so much.

• 54:00Jay Shetty?

  Gabor, you have been such a joy and such a treat to have my first-ever live interview for the podcast we've ever done, to do it in Vancouver, to do it with you. Someone that I genuinely learn so much from every time you speak, every time you share. Someone that I'm so grateful to call a friend. We've meditated together, we've had plenty of conversations together. And I want to ask you one last question before I...

• 54:28Gabor Maté?

  But before you do, let me just also say that it's a real honour and a pleasure for me to be invited by you to speak with your audience and to be the first one on this tour to be a guinea pig for you.

• 54:51Jay Shetty?

  We've all been guinea pigs tonight.

• 54:53Gabor Maté?

  That's right, yeah.

• 54:55Jay Shetty?

  We're in it together. But I want to end with one last question I wanted to ask you, which is, if there's...

• 55:06Jay Shetty?

  One thought you'd love for people to discuss as they left today. Something that they could talk to on the way home with their friend that they came with, their partner, the family member. And if they came alone, something they can start a conversation tomorrow, at work, at home, what would you encourage them to?

• 55:27Gabor Maté?

  Well, I'll tell you what comes up right away for me is ask yourself this question. What is true for me? What is true for me? Ask yourself that question and keep asking yourself that question. Keep asking that all your life. That's what comes up.

• 55:42Jay Shetty?

  What is true for me?

• 55:43Gabor Maté?

  Yeah.

• 55:43Jay Shetty?

  I love it. Dr. Gabor Maté, everyone!

• 55:45Gabor Maté?

  Thank you.

• 55:47Jay Shetty?

  If you loved this episode, you'll love my interview with Dr. Gabor Maté on understanding your trauma and how to heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past.

• 55:58Gabor Maté?

  A therapist once said to me that if your parents didn't know how to hold you, you develop the mind you hold yourself with. It's a fate of pain and is designed to keep you from experiencing pain.

• 56:09Speaker 08

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• 56:38Speaker 09

  Ugh, I hate Mondays.

• 56:40Speaker 10

  King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Swirl Bite?

• 56:41Speaker 09

  Uh, Taylor Hansen? Sure, I'll try one.

• 56:45Speaker 10

  Mmm.

• 56:47Speaker 11

  Hey, let's get back to work, please.

• 56:49Speaker 09

  But Taylor Hansen's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Bites.

• 56:53Speaker 11

  Taylor Hansen? Nice!

• 56:55Speaker 10

  Try one.

• 56:56Speaker 11

  Mmm.

• 57:00Speaker 12

  King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Bites. There's nothing like it.

• 57:09Speaker 12

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