Journalist Chris Sharp Exposes AARO Before Trump's Big Decision

The UFO public had high hopes when Congress created AARO to investigate UFO/USO/UAP incidents and report findings to both Congress and the public. Years later, AARO is widely viewed as a complete failure. Its first report was riddled with factual errors and typos. Its first director revealed himself to be a thin-skinned, diehard UFO skeptic, hardly an impartial investigator. Witnesses and whistleblowers say AARO ignored or belittled their testimony. As for transparency, AARO has released very few findings, even fewer UAP images, and a second report, as required by law, is many months overdue. The idea that a small office inside the Pentagon could rigorously investigate its own parent organization - the Department of War - seems preposterous on its face. But has AARO found even a single UFO incident it's been unable to debunk? The answer is yes. British journalist Chris Sharp, editor and publisher of Liberation Times, has demonstrated a remarkable ability to break story after story about UFO matters in both the US and the UK. Now he's wrangled an exclusive interview with AARO's former Deputy Director, Tim Phillips. Sharp's full interview could be published in days. In this episode of WEAPONIZED, Jeremy and George hear what Chris picked up from his extremely candid conversation with Phillips. The revelations are stunning. Phillips admitted AARO identified 40-50 cases showing "utterly bizarre" capabilities the "best and brightest people in the world" couldn't explain - instantaneous acceleration, right-angle turns, maneuvers no human aircraft can achieve. They "conclusively proved" these weren't adversary or friendly tech, yet never released a single video to the public. For the first time, a former AARO official confirmed UAPs detected in space. Some demonstrated "signature management" - actively avoiding detection over sensitive military locations. Despite admitting impossible performance characteristics, Phillips refused to say they're non-human or extraterrestrial. Chris describes it as "describing a dog without calling it a dog." His responses felt scripted and performative. Jeremy coins a new term: "Project Blue Box" - information flows in, nothing comes out. Phillips confirmed AARO approached Glenn Gaffney, the CIA Director George named under oath as blocking transfer of a non-human spacecraft. Shockingly, Phillips claimed he wasn't aware James Clapper admitted on camera the Air Force ran a UAP program above Area 51. How did AARO manage to screw everything up? Has it been an honest arbiter of UFO facts? And is there a future for AARO in light of President Trump's directive to federal agencies to release any and all UFO related files? *Follow Chris Sharp & Liberations Times ⁠https://x.com/ChrisUKSharp⁠ & ⁠https://LiberationTimes.com⁠ 🤖 MERCH : https://Weaponized-Shop. Fourthwall.com 👽 MAIN : https://YouTube.com/@JeremyCorbell 🛸 CLIPS : https://YouTube.com/@WEAPONIZEDclips 🕵️ MORE : https://WeaponizedPodcast.com GOT A TIP? Reach out to us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ••• Watch Corbell's six-part UFO docuseries titled UFO REVOLUTION on TUBI here : ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tubitv.com/series/300002259/tmz-presents-ufo-revolution/season-2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch Knapp’s six-part UFO docuseries titled INVESTIGATION ALIEN on NETFLIX here : ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://netflix.com/title/81674441⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ••• You can now watch all of Corbell's movies for free on YouTube here : BOB LAZAR : AREA 51 & FLYING SAUCERS ⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/sZaE5rIavVA⁠⁠⁠ HUNT FOR THE SKINWALKER ⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/TczkJ6UAQ8A⁠⁠⁠ PATIENT SEVENTEEN ⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/gDVX0kRqXxE⁠⁠⁠ ••• For breaking news, follow Corbell & Knapp on all social media. Extras and bonuses from the episode can be found at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠WeaponizedPodcast.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  In the world of expense management, SAP Concur is here to help. From cost control slipping to travel chaos, SAP Concur has an integrated travel and expense solution to help you overcome problems like overburdened teams, decisions looming. When travel, expense, and AP are connected with a single AI-supported solution, SAP Concur keeps you ahead of problems. Visit concur.com to learn more.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 0:56George Knapp?

  Can you tell us how you landed an interview with Tim Phillips, the former number-two guy at Arrow?

• 1:01Speaker 03

  He said that some of the things that we're seeing came from highly qualified observers, and they saw some truly astonishing performance capabilities, things that no known human system could behave like.

• 1:19George Knapp?

  They're not going to give it up easily. Unless a president stays on top of it and forces the issue, he's not going to get to the bottom of it.

• 1:27Jeremy Corbell?

  A lot of people are thinking on Tuesday or Wednesday that there's going to be during the State of the Union, there's either going to be the words "UFOs" in it or there's not. And I would suspect that there's two speeches that have been written and that they're debating right now at a very high level with the comms people. I would just suspect. This is weaponized.

• 1:58George Knapp?

  So Jeremy, you remember not that long ago, we would talk with Chris Sharp, a talented young journalist who's trying to get his head around the UFO issue and all the different tentacles it has. And we would help him out a little bit. And now the tables have turned and we have to grovel to him that maybe he'll share some tidbits or scraps or breadcrumbs or something like that. Remember that?

• 2:22Jeremy Corbell?

  Man, I love that kid. He turned from like, have you seen the Mogwai become a gremlin? Cause they ate after midnight. They look like so cute and cuddly and you underestimate them. And then there's vicious, ferocious, everybody got to watch Gremlins. Yeah, man. Chris Sharp is sharp. He is a dagger. He is the dagger that's going to deflate the disinfo balloon. What he's done is amazing.

• 2:47George Knapp?

  Yeah, he breaks some really great stories in Liberation Times and some other publications. Chris, welcome back to Weaponized. Can you tell us how you landed an interview with Tim Phillips, the former number two guy at Arrow?

• 3:01Speaker 03

  Firstly, thank you so much for the praise. I remember growing up watching you on television, George, and I remember sleeping on the couch with my family because we were homeless and watching Jeremy and Lazar on Joe Rogan. So I've certainly come a long way. So yes, I messaged Tim Phillips, the former deputy director and former acting director of Arrow on LinkedIn, just asked him if I could potentially interview him. And he said yes. So yeah, it was, it was actually quite easy.

• 3:35George Knapp?

  Any conditions placed on the interview about where you can go, what you can ask?

• 3:39Speaker 03

  No, he actually didn't know who I was.

• 3:43George Knapp?

  I remember when he was, got the job, Jeremy, you and I were told by somebody, hey, that's a pretty good guy. And we're thinking, oh, great. This is great. We're going to have a good, honest broker of information on the inside and arrow. And then, you know, the next time we really start hearing things from him, he sounds like the spawn of Kirk patrick, like he was his illegitimate kid or something. Because everything that came out of him might as well have been from Kirkpatrick. Chris, do you, did you get a sense that maybe he's freer to speak now that he's out from under the umbrella of Arrow and is more willing to engage? Or is he the same guy that was so difficult to deal with while he had the job?

• 4:24Speaker 03

  Yes, firstly, I did like him. He was giving up his free time. I think anyone who gives up their free time, you know, for an interview, sit down with someone, when they're not going to earn any money or anything from it. And, you know, he told me it was his anniversary as well. So he was speaking to me on his anniversary. So, you know, firstly, you know, props to him for speaking to me. And he wasn't nasty. I pressed him a few times and he didn't get too defensive or hostile with me. And yeah, I thank him for that.

• 5:01Speaker 03

  However, I did notice things when speaking to him. It sounds like he's describing, let's put it like this. It sounds like he's describing a dog. He's saying it's furry, it woofs, it's got a wiggly tail, but he's not going to name it a dog. And this is what I believe he is doing when it comes to UFOs. And it kind of takes me back to Obama saying, oh, aliens are real. And him getting in trouble over that. I don't know, maybe there's a precondition. You can describe UAP, you can say that they got out of this world characteristics, but you cannot say that they're alien or you think they're alien.

• 5:45Speaker 03

  I mean, that's the only way to explain it. So, yeah, we had a pretty interesting interview.

• 5:52George Knapp?

  Dr. Kozlowski also described to us as a good guy. Had made a comment that appeared on various social media that he can't do, he can't part his hair without getting permission from the higher ups at the Department of War at the Pentagon. Did you get into that with Tim?

• 6:11Speaker 03

  No, but I will, I will say this, and this is what I noticed. So from my understanding, the Office of the Secretary of Defence, for Security and Intelligence, that is the place where they protect special access programs.

• 6:29Speaker 03

  And the fact that you actually tasked that place to set up an office where they're going to start investigating special access programs for any UAP related activity, it seems a bit of a joke really. So I think from the outset, that sets the bar. So I believe that he's allowed to talk about anything in terms of what he sees, as long as it's not part of a special access program and that he doesn't compromise classified stuff. That's what I believe in terms of where he's coming from. We know that Lou was working and protecting special access programs from, I'm understanding, wasn't he as well? So yeah, I think that's something that I take into account

• 7:14Speaker 03

  when speaking to him.

• 7:17George Knapp?

  I guess what I was most interested in when Jeremy and I heard you got this interview and you're going to be talking to him was just the day to day operation, how things work, how information comes in and how it's processed. And then you see, say, a video or something, does a team of analysts work on a video and then they pass it up? If the team of analysts thinks, hey, this is genuine UAP or UFO and it goes up the chain and somebody says, no, it isn't, I would think that causes some strife. Can you give us a sense what you learned about the day to day operations, how information is processed by Arrow?

• 7:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, just from what I can recall, it was, he was giving examples, for example. So if they said, oh, it looked like a balloon, if a pilot basically said, oh, it looked like a balloon, or someone else said it looked like a balloon, okay, well, we're not going to waste our time on this case. We want to get to all the meaty stuff. We want to focus on the stuff that really showed extraordinary capabilities. That's what they really, really wanted to focus on. And then there was deconfliction as well. So that they would get in touch with, you know, it could be contractors.

• 8:29Speaker 03

  Could be certain aspects within the D O W or the intelligence community say, look, was this yours? And, you know, they'd respond, say, oh, no, this wasn't one of ours. So that was something that was very, very important. Blue force, deconfliction, and also adversary platform as well. So to be a proper U A P within the four to 50 cases that they had actually identified is truly extraordinary and bizarre, in his words, utterly bizarre.

• 9:04Speaker 03

  It had to pass those tests first. And then, as he described it to me, they got the best and brightest people in the world to study and analyze some of this footage, and they couldn't explain it.

• 9:17Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah, but that's the stupidest way to go about it I've ever heard. You can have the best and brightest with an arrow, but if you like filter the cases based on the stigma of people saying, I don't know, I'm scared, I'm a pilot, so I probably saw a balloon and not a UFO. Aren't you an idiot for categorizing initially the cases that way? Or am I missing something?

• 9:42Speaker 03

  So what he was saying is that they had limited resource in Arrow, especially when they were first getting, starting up in terms of just personnel that they had.

• 9:50Jeremy Corbell?

  But Patrick said they had access to everything.

• 9:53Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, they had, they had a lot of access. But the way that he was describing it in terms of the personnel available to study all the cases that they were getting through in terms, it was like the thousands, basically, it was numbering the thousands. So they didn't want to waste time where it seemed to be prosaic. So they would take the person's word for it. If it seemed like a balloon, they're like, okay, we're not going to spend too much time on this case. They just wanted to focus on the things that looked truly extraordinary.

• 10:21Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay. Am I wrong though, Chris? Like, so isn't it though that maybe Arrow, because Dr. Lacazie said they sure are barking like a dog, meaning acting like they're just a, not just a counterintelligence, but a campaign to mislead the American public. Did you get that feeling from, from Tim Phillips that he admitted that or that he knew he was part of that? Or is that, am I getting that wrong?

• 10:46Speaker 03

  Sure. So firstly, in terms of what Kirkpatrick said in terms of we had access for everything. I mean, I may have to correct myself because I'm very, very cautious about taking his words out of context. But the gist of it was that they had, 90% of the cases that they had, he said, were from the air domain. He suggested as well, he said, we saw things in space.

• 11:15Jeremy Corbell?

  Right.

• 11:15Speaker 03

  I don't think anyone associated with the Arrow has ever said that they've seen things in space before.

• 11:21Jeremy Corbell?

  No.

• 11:21Speaker 03

  So he went that far. So that's really, really important.

• 11:25Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay.

• 11:26Speaker 03

  But he did say that they had trouble in the maritime domain getting access to sensors and whatnot. I asked him, did you try to talk to the National Water Reconnaissance Office? And he said, yeah, that's one of the places that we went to. But they had a, so I would say they didn't have access to everything. Because they did struggle getting, they did struggle getting access to the maritime domain. And that was always a struggle of theirs. So that is worth mentioning when Kirkpatrick had said that.

• 12:02Jeremy Corbell?

  When, when, when Tim Phillips, so it sounds like he's being a little more open with you than he has been with other journalists. I don't mean to attack the man. I just don't understand the lies coming from Arrow. In the past, there's great footage of UAP. They shouldn't have to come from, from journalists like me and George. So my question is, when he said space, did he deliver to you, did he mean orbit, deep space or near earth?

• 12:31Speaker 03

  He didn't, I pressed him on it and it just, he got uncomfortable. It felt like he got uncomfortable talking about it. But, you know, he said that a small number of cases involved reported or reported maneuvers from highly trained observers of aircraft that basically could perform maneuvers that aircraft and spacecraft we know of do not behave in. He said that. He also said that some of the truly extraordinary abilities that he saw were ability to stop very quickly, accelerate quickly, right angle turns. And again, you know, things that aircraft and spacecraft

• 13:16Speaker 03

  we know of don't behave that way. So that's what he was saying to me. So, you know, who also he said that some, some of the things that we're seeing came from a highly qualified observers and they saw some truly, truly astonishing performance capabilities, things that no known human system could behave like.

• 13:42Jeremy Corbell?

  Wow. So he is being more open?

• 13:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, when you're saying that, because he also said, you know, we found no evidence that these were extraterrestrial, non-human intelligence. But again, this is why I say that he is describing a dog without calling it a dog.

• 13:59Jeremy Corbell?

  Well, didn't Dylan Borland explain to the world when he raised his hand under oath about that problem with them saying that exact sentence? Do you remember that, Chris?

• 14:12Speaker 03

  No, what was that again? And sorry, what was that again?

• 14:15Jeremy Corbell?

  Insert Dylan Borland right now. Dylan Borland raised his hand in Congress and explained to the entire world why they get away with saying, we found no evidence of extraterrestrial life. Because they don't know where they're from specifically. So they can use that as a shell game like Susan Goh, who's written you extensively, Chris, that their parsing of words is so important and you've experienced that. So I should not explain that to you. You explain that to the weaponized audience.

• 14:46Speaker 03

  Yes, yes. So this has always been a problem in terms of the way that they've got about describing things, extraterrestrial. So the first problem with that is how do you prove conclusively that you see something in the air and you know that it's from some other planet. Tim did say that there were very interesting tracks when they saw something, they wanted to know where it came from and where it was going. But if it's extraterrestrial, how are you going to track it back to a planet? So that's one of the limitations that you have when it comes to that. And then secondly, as Dylan said, if you're going to say it's

• 15:29Speaker 03

  extraterrestrial, then you would have to know what it's made out of the components.

• 15:33Speaker 00

  In the world of expense management, SAP Concur is here to help. From cost control slipping to travel chaos, SAP Concur has an integrated travel and expense solution to help you overcome problems like overburdened teams, decisions looming. When travel, expense and AP are connected with a single AI-supported solution, SAP Concur keeps you ahead of problems. Visit concur.com to learn more.

• 16:03Speaker 03

  The biologics on board and then be able to take a sample from the planet it was from to positively verify it was from that exact planet. So there's all these and there's word gains as well. You know, there's, you know, from what we're getting in terms of what my sources is that these things are coming from our planet. You know, they may be extraterrestrial in nature, but they're Earth-based. So it's better to call them non-human because they're not coming from another planet. They're coming from the oceans. They're coming from deep underground. So that's something worth taking into account as well, definitely.

• 16:46George Knapp?

  There's a pest control product here in the States, Chris. They used to have an ad for it called the Roach Motel. And the Roach Motel, roaches check in, but they'd never check out. Seems like that motto could work for Arrow because information flows in, hardly any of it ever comes out. What, how does Tim Phillips see his mission and the mission of Arrow? You analyze this stuff and then you keep it secret and never talk about it. The only thing that ever comes out publicly from Arrow is where they debunk something. You know, you have all this stuff. You know, Jim Lekatsky and others suspect they're a counterintelligence operation. Did he get into what the role of Arrow is? Was he proud of the work they did?

• 17:28George Knapp?

  And does he feel that one of their duties is to share it with the public?

• 17:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, so that's, that's interesting because what I can say is that it didn't feel natural talking to him. It felt like at times he was reading from a script. A formative, you know, at Arrow, we did not see any verifiable evidence that something was non-human or-

• 17:55Jeremy Corbell?

  Did you actually see his eyes looking like he was reading a script?

• 17:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, it, no, it just didn't feel natural. It just felt like he was doing performance.

• 18:04Jeremy Corbell?

  You know, I feel like they're really stuck. Like, I want to give a big shout out to all the really brilliant, good-hearted people in Arrow who are doing amazing work. And, and their job is to do that work and they're good people. Even Kozlovsky, I've heard is really good from you, George, and other people. But they are, this is not Project Blue, Blue whatever anymore. Blue Bean, this is Project Blue Box. They are, not Blue Book, it's Blue Box. They're stuck in a box. They could be the greatest people, so shout out to the Arrow employees. We're not against you, but you're stuck in a box. And that's become apparent.

• 18:42George Knapp?

  Back to the question, Chris, you were sharing with us that some of what he was saying to you sounded scripted. But what about the idea of what their job is in terms of transparency? Does they, do they give even lip service to that as one of the reasons that Arrow was created or not?

• 19:01Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah, well-

• 19:03Speaker 03

  In terms of what he was saying to me, he was saying one of the tasks of Arrow, which was misunderstood just from recollection of my memory, was that it was deconfliction. It's making sure that there's no Chinese or Russian tech as well. And that was like a big misunderstanding in terms of their mission. But no, there wasn't, he didn't really say anything about just kind of like that. I mean, I was just focusing on some of the cases that he was talking about, but he went pretty wild in terms of what he was saying. He was saying that there's a Klingon ship, looks like a Klingon ship from Star Trek, that was seen, I'm pretty sure he said this in another interview as well,

• 19:46Speaker 03

  that some witnesses had, you know, come to the Arrow about to say, this is extraterrestrial tech or non-human tech. But he was able to confirm that it's actually American tech. And he was just saying that we got some amazing stuff, which is fine. I accept that America may have some amazing tech, but as well, that I think that made it even more astonishing, the fact that he's able to say, America's got all this amazing tech, even stuff that looks like Klingon ships. But also we've seen cases as well, 40 or 50 so, where we can't understand what it is. We've got the best and brightest people and it seems to be beyond kind of like human capability in terms of the platforms that are existing that we know of.

• 20:28Speaker 03

  You know, and he would say that and he'd also say stuff as well that was really interesting, that could have took me back to the UAPTF report, the UAP Task Force Report, which was signature, signature manager. Yeah, yeah. So he was basically saying that it seemed that,

• 20:49Speaker 03

  he said that they saw at the Arrow that some of the UAPs.

• 20:55Speaker 03

  Had attempted not to be surveyed. Um. Others didn't seem to be to care. And these these things were being picked up in sensitive locations, but signature management, they they don't want to be seen.

• 21:06Jeremy Corbell?

  Which is one of the, which is one of the five observables is low observability oddly. So out of the fifty cases that, you know, that he talked about, and then out of the signature management cases that he talked about. Did he give you any specific details of of what the signature management looked like? Or what the fifty cases that were truly bizarre looked like? Did he? Did he tell you any specifics of the real UAP cases?

• 21:35Speaker 03

  No, it was very, very difficult, actually, in terms of interviewing. He he's a lovely guy, but it was kind of like one of those interviews where you want to elicit responses. Um. Build up rapport, um, build up trust and you'd ask him a question. And and he would just, um, you know, talk for about ten minutes, going into details, sometimes. Um. Digressing into other things. It was very, very difficult. And, you know, I I did try to at times, um, pick him up on some stuff. Um.

• 22:05Jeremy Corbell?

  But you didn't spill the beans.

• 22:06Speaker 03

  Difficult. What's that?

• 22:08Jeremy Corbell?

  You didn't spill the beans.

• 22:10Speaker 03

  No, but one of the things that I found very, very interesting is that, um, we just. So so I I I said to him, I said, look, um, in the Arrow Historical Report, you said that there had been no, um, UAP programs. Um. Between Project Blue Book and, um, um, I think it was All Sap. And, um, I said, but did you not see the age of disclosure where James Clapper was saying that there had been a UAP program run by the US Air Force? Were they tracking UAP above Area Fifty One? I was, oh, no, I've not seen that. It's like, how have you not seen that? And he even said that he worked with James Clapper. Um. He met with him, I think, once, once a week.

• 22:52Speaker 03

  And he's he was saying James Clapper is someone that he has the utmost respect for. Yeah, I think he's a great professional. I said, OK, well, well, James Clapper has said this, um, that there is a. He programmed run by the US Air Force. So you being someone who has the utmost respect for him and admires him and worked under him at the Office of the Director of National Intelligence when he was there. What are you gonna ask James? And maybe that will change your mind. And he said, yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll give James a call. I said, yeah, please do. And please, um, get back to me. To tell me what he told you and um, what your response is now. I think that's interesting and I would like to follow up with him on that too.

• 23:31Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah, and, and, and we should back up. We're grilling you about somebody from Arrow. You, you have a good rapport. We're not, you know, trying to hurt this individual's credibility. We're just, you know, I am a little bit more aggressive about it. I'm a little bit pissed, right? Um, George and I have been attacked. So when we're talking with you, I get it, man. He seems like a nice dude. And you should follow up with him because I think it's beautiful what you got from him. So I'm not trying to attack anybody. You, you're doing great journalism. And I hope he keeps talking with you. He seems probably, he's, he's got kids and a wife and he's got a real life. So, so keep talking with him.

• 24:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I mean, even when he was like, you know, at one point, he was like, what's, what's your interest in this topic, by the way? Um, and I was like, well, I'm a journalist. I write for Liberation Times and occasionally I write for the Daily Mail as well. And I was basically saying that I come at this from like, um, I, I, I basically, I said that. I think there's a lot of media out there that say that they're fair and balanced, but it's very difficult to be fair and balanced in the media that. You know, I'm just very, very honest, say that, that I'm reporting this from the whistleblowers, the witnesses perspective. But I said that I'm friends with. Um, people like Lou, for instance. And then he went on the tangent, basically saying how Lou is a grifter and stuff like that. And again, this felt really scripted to me.

• 24:50Speaker 03

  I didn't even feel like, because you know, I, I love Lou and, and my friends and stuff, you know, and I usually want to protect them. But. When he said that, it just like felt like a script and I didn't take it personally. I'm like.

• 25:00Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah.

• 25:00Speaker 03

  It felt like that's what I'm supposed to say, you know?

• 25:03Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah, I mean, that statement, you know, remember when the US government used to say, uh, our interest in UFOs stopped with Project Blue Book, nothing after that. And then the ATIP news comes out. Oh yeah, well, there's that ATIP thing. Oh, and then the OSAP news comes out. Oh yeah, there's, you know, there was that one too. I mean, you know, you can't take them literally at their word. I'm curious, did he like the job? Do you get a sense that he liked working at Arrow? Did he like his boss? Does he like being gone from being underneath that boss?

• 25:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, he had positive words to say. He thought it was really, really interesting. He also said that Sean Patrick is a brilliant scientist and yeah, so he said that. And I questioned him on the the technical group that they had at the Arrow as well. Because it'd been reported that Glenn Gaffney was part of that. And he admitted to me that they had approached Glenn and Glenn denied it.

• 26:03Jeremy Corbell?

  I was like, oh, that's huge. That's huge. The guys whose name that George mentioned under oath in Congress, former Director of Science and Technology for the CIA that stopped the transfer of the non-human intelligence spacecraft from our government, right? From Lockheed to OSAP. He actually commented officially on record about that?

• 26:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. He said that they spoke to Glenn. Glenn said he didn't know anything about it. And I mentioned, yeah, I mentioned, yeah, Glenn could be a good guy. But I think I also mentioned as well, but saying, well, technically Glenn may have not blocked it. It may have been a guy called Robert Cardillo in ODNI. Where you were working as well, Tim. You were working with ODNI under Clapper. And a guy called Robert Cardillo was the one who officially did it. Under Clapper, by the way. So Clapper would have known that it was being blocked as well. Which is really, really interesting, isn't it? It's funny how you connect all these pictures, this picture, you know, you know, because.

• 27:09Jeremy Corbell?

  ODNI. Are they going to be now, are they going to be now transparent? I just saw, you sent me something minutes ago. There was Tulsi Gabbard. She like put something out through official ODNI or something. And I think she's a badass and I think she's on the level. And I think that she, she may be getting the full story, may not be. Do you think ODNI now is going to tell the truth about UAP? Because Tulsi's in charge and is the big boss? Or do you think ODNI is gonna continue the cover up, the sleight of hand? What do you think, Chris?

• 27:45Speaker 03

  I think you come into a place as a political appointee and you find yourself surrounded by people who are basically working against your agenda and basically saying that we can hold up for the next four years or so until the next guy leaves office and we'll just wait out until then. I think that's a problem that many modern governments face. But I think it is very, very interesting because, you know, I've done some reporting and I do believe that James Clapper and Stephanie Sullivan, when they were up ODNI, they were running a UAP programme which involved kinetic

• 28:25Speaker 03

  action, taking down UAP and retrieving them. So I think, yeah, I think maybe from their time, you may find that some people potentially could be involved in that as well from Clapper's time, potentially.

• 28:40George Knapp?

  Back to Kirkpatrick, who was the first director of Arrow. Every time there's, he's been gone for two years or more. Every time there's a UFO story, he's out in front crapping on it. You know, President Trump announces he's going to authorize the release of files. Kirkpatrick is in the Wall Street Journal the next day saying, I've seen everything and there's nothing there, nothing whatsoever. It's all explainable. I can't imagine what it would be like for Kozlowski, Tim Phillips, who were there after Kirkpatrick left, and he is still acting as the spokesperson for not only Arrow but the whole UFO investigation and the topic for the entire US government. And he's not part of it anymore.

• 29:24Speaker 03

  Well, that's funny because, you know, they're talking a lot, whereas Arrow aren't talking at all. I can't get any responses out of Goff at the moment. So basically, it's like, you know, I don't know if this is true or not.

• 29:38Speaker 03

  I believe it is for the best. It's coming through. I can't can't name them. But um, I was offered the possibility to um, interview John Kozowski. Oh, he's someone who knew him personally. And um, they told me, yeah, I've approached John. John said, yeah, yeah, great. Chris can interview me, um, but he's got to go through the right channels. So I got in touch with Susan Goff, said, oh, you know, can I can I get a chance to interview John Kozowski? And she was like, no, we're not doing that right now.

• 30:07George Knapp?

  Uh, any comment on this report that's many, many months overdue? I mean, they don't have a whole lot of deadlines for the entire organization. Where the hell is it?

• 30:17Speaker 03

  Nothing. Again, it it's been complete wall-to-wall silence from Susan Goff. Um, I I really pushed her to um, comment on the video that you guys released. Um, o- over Syria. I got that out of her. I only I only got that because I threatened to make official complaints. Um, against her. Um, so I got that up her, but I've got lots of missed questions, including in terms of this report. And all she'll come back with is we have no, we have no news for you at the moment on that report. Um, so I don't know what's going on, but it's failing. Um. So, yeah, I I they they've just gone missing. I do not know what's happened to the Arrow.

• 31:00Speaker 03

  Um, I don't know what's happening with the new deputy um, defence. De- deputy um, de- oh, Secretary of of War. Um, I don't know what's going on with him because at least Kathleen Hicks, I mean, she had all her force. But at least she made sure that the Arrow was doing its job. But um, the new deputy secretary of defence doesn't seem to be doing that.

• 31:23George Knapp?

  I don't know if you got into this, but any questions about, for example, does Arrow have a media outreach outreach resources? Do you have somebody out there on X or Twitter or Instagram? Who speaks on behalf of uh, the the agency and who explains UFO cases or videos?

• 31:43Speaker 03

  No, we didn't get into that, but I'm, you know, as a comms first myself, that is something that is severely lacking. I mean, they need someone to break it all down and stuff like that for them so that it actually gets communicated properly in terms of what they're doing. Why are you not releasing videos like Jeremy and George in terms of high quality showing truly anomalous behavior? Why, why are they not releasing those videos? That, that's what I don't know because he's telling me that there are these, you know, cases where they've got these extreme performance characteristics, but where are the videos? I've seen extreme characteristics from you guys in terms of, um, you know, the last video that you guys released. Um, why aren't we getting that from the arrow? So that, that's some of the severely, severely lacking.

• 32:29Speaker 00

  In the world of expense management, SAP Concur is here to help. From cost control slipping to travel chaos. SAP Concur has an integrated travel and expense solution to help you overcome problems like overburdened teams, decisions looming. When travel, expense and AP are connected with a single AI-supported solution, SAP Concur keeps you ahead of problems. Visit concur.com to learn more.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 33:26George Knapp?

  Well, um, so overall friendly exchange with this guy. Um, he might help you down the road. Um, is he, does he stay in touch with Arrow and what they're doing? Is he still sort of a consultant or have any ties to it? Does, is he in the know anymore?

• 33:45Speaker 03

  No, not from my understanding, he seems to have totally taken a break from it. I mean, the fact is that he didn't even realise, well, he says he didn't even realise that James Clapper had made those remarks in the age of disclosure. If that's true, then I mean, come on, like, you're talking about someone who's totally tapped out of it now, um, that is just, yeah. So, but again, that makes me think, you know, how could he not know if he has the utmost respect for James Clapper and he's a living, breathing person who has access to a computer, a TV, how did he not know that Clapper had made those remarks? Do you see what I mean? This is where it gets into this grazing, where you don't know what's an act and what's not. But to me, it seemed that he was trying his best to convey how extraordinary these cases

• 34:30Speaker 03

  were, they could not solve without telling me that he thinks these are alien in technology. It seemed to me that he was trying to go as far as he could and the rest of it was just performative. That's, that, that's how it came across to me.

• 34:47George Knapp?

  I know you've, you've just completed this interview not long, uh, before we were recording this with you. What are you going to do with it? When's it coming out and, and how big of a story is this going to be?

• 34:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, so we are aiming to get it out in the Daily Mail. So I provided a first draft to Josh. Um, we'll see if they take it. I, I, I think it's pretty, pretty extraordinary because you're talking about someone who was official leader within the UAP office within the US government and someone who you know has taken a sceptical approach of UAP and now he is going out there making some startling claims in terms of the cases that they've got. So I think that's worth its weight in gold in terms of a story. Um, and yeah, I, I, I think these stories, this, this story, I mean, if he is saying that these are beyond, like, the known, known, the known systems of, you know, um, human

• 35:43Speaker 03

  technology, I think that ought to cap, capture the attention of the US government. And I also think as well that, um, that they, they need, one thing they do need to do is they need to get access to those sensors underwater. They need to get access to, in terms of the underwater activity. You know, Kirkpatrick said he had access to everything. He hasn't. I think the US and the President of the United States needs a full understanding of what is going on in the underwater domain.

• 36:13George Knapp?

  I have one last question, then Jeremy, you could take it away. A lot of whistleblowers and witnesses came forward. Arrow invited them to come forward, tell what they know. They did it in what they thought was their patriotic duty. Came in, gave statements, were there, available for questions. They feel betrayed because in essence, Arrow has said, we didn't learn anything worthwhile from these guys. We don't believe them. And I'm not sure how they could expect anyone ever to come forward again and be trusted by Arrow. Did you get into that at all? Did you have any?

• 36:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, we did. So I asked him about Michael Herrera, for instance. He said that he'd seen a craft. And he didn't mention that that craft was extraterrestrial. He just said it was a craft, you know, an exotic craft or something like that. But in the report, Arrow had called it extraterrestrial, which he never did. So I really pushed him on that. He was like, oh, I didn't do all that case. So, you know, I wouldn't be in a position to speak. But he did say that, oh, what we did is we made sure that we got the witness statements. And we gave the statements to the witnesses to sign. So they knew what was going, you know, what they said, like they would provide them a statement. Say, this is what you said. Can you sign it just to make sure it was appropriate? That's where he was conveyed to me.

• 37:28Speaker 03

  And he said that everyone who was interviewed got one of those. And that they signed it to make sure that nothing was being taken out of context. That's how he conveyed it to me.

• 37:38George Knapp?

  Yeah, and then it was directly put into the shredder? What, what happened to it?

• 37:42Speaker 03

  This is it. And the fact that he didn't deal, well, he says he didn't deal with the Herrera case. Yeah, it's disappointing that I couldn't get a good answer on that one.

• 37:54George Knapp?

  There was somebody on the TV show I did, UFO Revolution, who you hear him explain what happened, how they treated his case, like the people that called him, the general and the other guy, like they were great, but there was zero follow up. And he was very disgruntled about it because these guys put it on the line to talk with him. And it just seemed like they were sucking up for counter intel. Again, the employees are great, but it's the, it's the, you know, project blue box. It's the idea we're gonna.

• 38:22Jeremy Corbell?

  Absorb the info, take it away, keep it like this. You can all day. It's like when you're a kid, man. By the time you turn thirteen, if you're not thinking for yourself, you can't blame your parents anymore. Okay? When you're working in those things, you should quit in defiance if you find out that you're doing something, you know, where you're doing something immoral. Like, it doesn't matter if somebody tells you it's your job. So I'm just, I'm sorry, I'm pissed today and it makes me pissed. I'm glad you did the interview. I'd be horrible at it. Three specific questions about the Patrick interview. Real quick, rapid fire. Did he say whether the space detections that he talked about were corroborated by multi sensors or just single source sensors?

• 39:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, he, he just would not get into any detail about those specific cases, although he did mention that he was very, very proud that that was a gap that they knew of and that they had started a collaboration led by him with Space Force and Space Command to ensure they were getting that data. And he was mentioning as well that if it's not a threat

• 39:33Speaker 03

  or seen as hostile, they usually won't pay attention to something that they see out in space or in orbit or something like that. So it was important to make sure that you were picking up those kinds of cases. So yeah, that, that was something that came to mind. Yeah.

• 39:49Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay. So am I correct in a quote where he said in your interview, "We could conclusively prove it wasn't adversary or friendly"? Did he say that? Cause I have a question, man.

• 40:01Speaker 03

  Yeah. So he, he basically said that we were able to conclusively prove it wasn't a known system, either adversary or friendly.

• 40:10Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay. So did he explain what methodology he used to reach that conclusion?

• 40:17Speaker 03

  He only went so far to say that they would call up contractors of certain elements within the D O W and I think the intelligence community as well to say, look, is this one of yours? No, it's not one of yours. And I'm not sure how they're able to determine though, that it wasn't an adversary technology as well. But he said conclusion conclusively. So if you take him at his word. That that's pretty big.

• 40:43Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay, so yeah, we just talked with a friend, Logan, and he was explaining to us how when he was shown footage on a radar system, he kind of explained how they could determine it wasn't China, Russia, US, or whatever. So I was just curious. Last question from me about this. I've been out of the media. I avoid it like the plague. It's very painful to look at things. I want less media. But did he address why he went on LinkedIn to downplay things?

• 41:14Jeremy Corbell?

  After such a like a candid interview, didn't he recently go on LinkedIn?

• 41:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So again, he's using that terminology from understanding. You might need to correct me, but he was saying that basically we found no evidence, verifiable evidence, something like that, of extraterrestrial or aliens or anything like that. So again, you know, this, this is the game, you know, he is basically describing a dog, but not calling it that. And this is what he's doing. You know, you've heard these quotes that he said, you know, and it sounds to me that he's leaving very, very little room for an explanation that could be human in origin. So but he is not willing for some reason to go as far to say, at least say, I think it is extraterrestrial.

• 42:04Speaker 03

  I think it's non-human because we can't do this.

• 42:07Jeremy Corbell?

  Do you think he was talked to like Representative Burchett was by the quote unquote suits? Do you think he was talked to like probably Obama was when he definitively said aliens are real with no caveat? Do you think that he has somebody calling him like our other friends have?

• 42:24Speaker 03

  I think I think it is because

• 42:28Speaker 03

  straight away, when an official

• 42:32Speaker 03

  Um, who's very, very senior says that there's aliens in a straight face. Well, okay, that's going to cause a big story. It could potentially lead to uncertainty in the stock market. Uh, it could lead to um destabilization of politics. So when you say that as a politician or someone very, very senior or positioned to know, that's when all hell could break loose, when you'll say this is alien or there are aliens or something like that.

• 43:05Jeremy Corbell?

  So what about, what about Trump then? What about Trump saying that it's classified? Aliens are classified. That's what he said, right? Or am I getting that wrong?

• 43:16Speaker 03

  No, you're not. So this is why I believe what he said was such a big deal. Basically, I, I, it seems to me, like I was saying, it seems to me that they're able to go so far. But once they use the word alien, that's when they go over the line, basically. They go.

• 43:33George Knapp?

  I think Trump did, I think Trump did not specify what it was that Obama said that was crossed the line.

• 43:38Jeremy Corbell?

  Right, but what, what did we say? If you look at the question.

• 43:42George Knapp?

  Yeah, well, you know, he said a remark about there's no aliens underground at Area 51. Maybe it's a mention of 51 or I can't imagine how saying that aliens are real would possibly be a violation of national security protocols. Uh, we don't know. I, I'm curious, Chris, and I'm not asking you to be a spokesperson for the entire UK. But how, how is that, that back and forth Trump and Obama on this issue? And then Trump's order, hey, we're gonna release the files. How's that being viewed over there?

• 44:13Speaker 03

  Um, it, it's picked up some coverage. Um, I, I think people, because our politics, I mean, like your politics as well, is so intense at the moment. You know, we've got high profile figures in this country being arrested. Um, in terms of the Epstein scandal, for instance. Um, and we've got, you know, British territory being ceded away to Mauritius and us paying billions as taxpayers. So you've got all these debates, but what interesting thing is. Talking about the Chagos Islands, um, which is something explainable, you know, we're giving away. Diego Garcia, basically, the the islands where Diego Garcia is to Mauritius.

• 44:54Speaker 03

  And we're giving them away to Mauritius and then giving them the money after giving them away. And one of the people who's really re-involved in campaigning in terms of saying, look, we should not be doing this. We should be giving away these vital islands and paying for the privilege to do so is Noel Gardner. He's the former um aide to Margaret Thatcher. He works at the Heritage Foundation. You could view him as like a UK elite, basically. Um, and I had an interview on Talk TV with Alex Phillips on Friday, and he was one of the guests on there. Um, and after my interview, Alex basically said that Niall's face just like dropped, just like.

• 45:36Speaker 03

  He, and he said, gosh, I know who Chris is speaking about. I know these names, I know these people. And he went on to say that I think that interview that you did with this, that Daily Mail journalist was extraordinary. Um, and this is something that we need to be paying attention to. So I think that there are a lot of people who are just kind of asleep at the wheel, that they don't realise what's going on. And then when they got time to actually digest what is going on. It's rattling them, especially what's happened with Obama and what's happened with Trump. Um, because Trump was deadly serious and the White House, you know, because Fox News did ask, saying which part of it was classified. Was it when he said that aliens are real?

• 46:20Speaker 03

  And the White House basically said, we have nothing to add to what Trump said. That was the White House, by the way, that was the White House's, that that was their time where they could have said, that was their opportunity to say, look, Trump was just joking around. When that moment happened, when they said that we don't have nothing else to add to what Donald Trump said. That made me realise that, gosh, this is serious. They're not trying to row this back. Um, yeah, so I don't, I don't know what's happening within the White House right now. But um, I, I, I suspect something quite big is going down potentially at a moment.

• 46:58Jeremy Corbell?

  Can I can I ask you a stupid stupid question? I don't understand when you're talking about the facial expression. What do you mean by that? What is the guy showing us by that facial expression?

• 47:09Speaker 03

  It was kind of like, it was just described by Alex. Because after my interview, they went to like an advert break. And Alex is basically describing that after the interview, it kind of like just sunk in. Like his face was like, oh, like something along those lines. Like, I know the people that Chris is talking about. Wow, it kind of like just sunk in for him.

• 47:32George Knapp?

  The guy knows the people, but he didn't know what they're talking about? That he'd been out of the loop, kind of a thing?

• 47:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, I didn't know what people it was relating to. So I mean, I mentioned names like Pete Hegseth, John Ratcliffe, people like that. So maybe it was relating to those kinds of people.

• 47:51Jeremy Corbell?

  But it's like, it's like Tim Phillips not having known what his pal has said in a movie. It's a little bit disconnected.

• 47:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, there is a disconnect there. So, yeah, it's just interesting because for me, like, I don't even think the interview went that well for me. I didn't think I was that great. But just kind of like, and I wanted to let as many people to know as possible, saying, look, this is this guy's reaction. Like, you're seeing it live on air, just like someone who's not really previously been aware of this. Kind of like, take this all in, a real kind of like heavyweight and an elite kind of like person who's highly intelligent. Who knows about all the world events that's going on. He hasn't really digested what's been going on in the UAP sphere. And now it's finally, do you know what I mean? And I think if we do kind of get more disclosures in the upcoming days, weeks and months,

• 48:43Speaker 03

  I think we can expect some more of those reactions.

• 48:49George Knapp?

  Chris, as you rise to the pinnacle of journalism, I hope you will remember your old hobbling friends who are just trying to get through life. And you just occasionally just scrape something off the table, a couple of tidbits, breadcrumbs, whatever, and help out some some old guys who are trying to find their way.

• 49:13Speaker 03

  Absolutely, absolutely. I can't wait to take you to a pub in the UK. I think we've got a good one called The Georgian Dragon that me and Jeremy want to take you to. So yeah, we look forward to seeing you.

• 49:26Jeremy Corbell?

  Chris, I just want, you know, people to hear that, you know, there are people that are trusted and you are trusted. I think you're an excellent journalist and don't ever fucking stop. Just keep fighting, man. And people, if they got something sensitive, they can go to you, man, because you will protect people, protect sources. We've known each other for years. You never said a single name to me. And I've tried, you know, that's part of my job is try to figure out what's going on. I really respect your journalism. Thank you so much for joining us.

• 49:54George Knapp?

  Yeah, and we fully expect to take all the credit for your work, too, going forward. See ya.

• 50:00Speaker 00

  In the world of expense management, SAP Concur is here to help. From cost control slipping to travel chaos, SAP Concur has an integrated travel and expense solution to help you overcome problems like overburdened teams, decisions looming. When travel, expense, and AP are connected with a single AI-supported solution, SAP Concur keeps you ahead of problems. Visit concur.com to learn more.

• 50:31Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 50:56George Knapp?

  Well, Chris has come a long way and he's doing some great work. He's developed sources. We have no idea who they are, but he, every week, he breaks something really good. And I, I look forward to reading his article based on this interview with Tim Phillips. I also really look forward to the reaction to it. Do they come out and say, I didn't say that, or I was taken out of context, or, you know, or some other weasel words that would try to diminish what's, what Chris clearly outlined is going to be in his, in his piece.

• 51:28Jeremy Corbell?

  Man, I I I'm so proud of Chris and he is such a trusted journalist. You know, George, I was sitting in this meadow yesterday and man, I was like, I hadn't done that in like a long time in Pioneer Town, right? You got like these washes and I I haven't done that in a while. And I like all of a sudden I just relaxed. I was like, this is an exciting time. This is one of the most exciting times and opportunity because we have had zero announcements. A lot of people are thinking on Tuesday or Wednesday that there's going to be during the State of the Union. There's either going to be the words UFOs in it or there's not. And I would suspect that there's two speeches that have been written.

• 52:10Jeremy Corbell?

  And they're debating right now at a very high level with the comms people. I would just suspect that they're trying to figure out what are the steps that we can do to explain to people. I'm sitting there in this meadow and I sent you a video, George. And I was like, this is what relaxing looks like. I was not relaxed. I was so excited because this is a unique time in the history of the UAP topic for journalism. Out of your 40 years, man, I asked you this in Congress, I'm asking this now. Did you ever think that we at least were asking the right questions like we are now? Did you ever think we'd get here?

• 52:47George Knapp?

  No, not really. I mean, you had not only the sitting president, but a former president having a back and forth about UFOs. And it wasn't a direct conversation, but both making comments, walking things back and then a declaration by President Trump. It's an amazing time and I know the immediate reaction of the public is this is a distraction from the Epstein files. I think probably everything that Trump does for the rest of his life is going to be viewed as a distraction from the Epstein files. We're going to maybe start pulverizing Iran here in a couple of days. That'll be seen as a distraction from the Epstein files. I think his reaction was legit, that he really does want to see the files released.

• 53:30George Knapp?

  I'm not sure that his interest in the topic is all that deep, but I I know he has political instincts that can recognize, hey, whenever I say something about this, people really react. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna go with the flow. You know, so the president has issued a directive. There are a lot of obstacles in the way. He's going to have to declassify stuff. If he's actually going to get files to be released and the keepers of the secrets who've kept this stuff stashed away and have lied to the the world public about it for eighty years, they're not going to give it up easily. You know, unless a president stays on top of it and forces the issue, he's not going to get to the bottom of it. I mean, you know,

• 54:13George Knapp?

  we've had a lot of presidents since Harry Truman, all of them had varying degrees of interest in in the UFO issue. Maybe George H. W. Bush is the guy that knew the most, but they've made promises similar to what Trump has done, and then it goes nowhere unless somebody in his administration is appointed to stay on top of this and make people comply with the the order and, you know, go through the process of declassifying stuff, then maybe it goes nowhere. But even if that happens, the fact that the president says, hey, people are interested in it, they have a right to know, and we're going to do what we can to release the files, that's a big deal, even if we don't get the files.

• 54:54Jeremy Corbell?

  Shout out to our pal Peter from Fox News, because he was on that airplane with Trump. And he just asked the question that we all wanted to know. And I think you'll agree with this, George, is that like our representatives for decades, they've been assessing the potential threat of NHI and UFO, you know, for American sovereignty. I mean, they've been assessing that for so long. I understand why the secrecy, but you know, we're and they were wisely compartmentalizing everything to protect and detect competitive advantage and strategic surprise. So now, kind of part of that self preservation, you know, people are more wise to it now, and people have recognized that there's substance to this. So I really think that

• 55:39Jeremy Corbell?

  that time has now passed, and that we need a people's champion. We need somebody to say the quiet part out loud, and it might be for selfish reasons, it might be to distract, or it might be, I don't care. But if somebody says it, imagine State of the Union, they bring up UFOs. I mean, man, you would be the people's champ, because everybody already knows UFOs are real, you've been lying about it, we get why you're lying about it. So I don't know, is it weird for me to be optimistic, maybe not the State of the Union, but that we're on a course, a collision course with truth? Is there a, am I stupid for being optimistic?

• 56:22George Knapp?

  We've had this discussion before. I am encouraged by the fact that the current president is talking about UAP and giving a directive to federal agencies. That's a, that's a big moment, even if it leads nowhere. I am pessimistic about how it ultimately plays out because the people who keep this secrets do not want it out. And there will be all kinds of witnesses who will come to the president and tell him why it's a really bad idea to release this and that. Oh, boy, we can't release this. It's going to reveal we have X technology. There'll be a lot of excuses and a lot of whispering in his ear about why it's a bad idea. I hope he sticks to it. I, I hope he stays

• 57:03George Knapp?

  on top of it. The, the problem is the president, whether you think it's, everything is a distraction from something else or not, every single day, there's something new on his plate. That's a potential world crisis. So it's hard to stay focused. The same thing is true for Congress. They got so much stuff to deal with. The only way to, to make this, make progress and really get somewhere is to stay on top of it, maintain the focus, and follow up your promise to have these files and other evidence declassified and released. We'll see. Again, I am a little bit on the pessimistic side, but we'll see.

• 57:40Jeremy Corbell?

  Final thought from me. This is a historic opportunity, and I think history will tell if our president has both the will and the grit and the ability to do the right thing for the American public and the generations to come. I, I think the time is now, and before another nation does it, I think America will be too late if they don't do it now and lead by example. And look, man, if I had to choose one thing, what do you do first? If somebody, let's say, at the Pentagon says, comms people say, what should we do first? I would say, we were at

• 58:21Jeremy Corbell?

  least all the scientific data and corroborative visual evidence of UAP that doesn't directly endanger our great union's national security. And if you do that as step number one.

• 58:33Jeremy Corbell?

  Then we don't, we can move on, George, because then we won't have this subversion because we know the footage is out there. We've seen it. And so have other people. They've admitted it to us unweaponized. So I would say that would be the first thing that I would do if I was giving guidance and they had the courage and the grit to fight that. I, George, no matter what you say, man, I'm pumped.

• 58:59George Knapp?

  Well, again, we'll see. I'm there with you. If it happens, that's great.

• 59:05Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah.

• 59:06George Knapp?

  We've been down this road before. Yes, other presidents and presidential candidates have made these promises and they fizzled. So I'd like to see it. I, there's a tiny part of my brain that is optimistic, but the rest of the vacant space up here is mostly pessimistic.

• 59:24Jeremy Corbell?

  But never like this, George.