Owning Your Problems Is the Key to Unlocking Your Future (With Jade Warshaw)

On today’s episode, John talks with bestselling author Jade Warshaw about ambition, relationships and how to stay strong when life isn’t fair. Next Steps: ❤️ Get away with your spouse today! 🔥 Reconnect every day. Download the Together app. 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John’s Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: Head to Beam and use code DELONY for an exclusive discount—because better sleep, energy and focus start tonight. Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. Keep your home safe and under control. Go to Cove Smart and use code DELONY for up to 80% off your first order. Get an exclusive offer with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Go to Dutch Pet and use code DELONY to get $50 off a year of vet care. Go love your pets! Visit Hallow for a 90-day free trial. Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! Working knives for working people—go to Montana Knife Company to see what’s available now! Explore Poncho Outdoors! Get 25% off your order at Thorne.  Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  Sam will tell you, living with Jade is hard because Jade does not let anything slide.

• 0:10Dr. John Delony?

  What does that get you?

• 0:11Speaker 00

  Reality, it's the life happening around it that makes it more crushing. If I cannot be in that role, I love it, but if I have to, trust and believe.

• 0:21Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I will.

• 0:29Dr. John Delony?

  Hey, what's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, calling to you from Nashville, Tennessee. Normally, we take calls from real people going through real challenges. And we sit down and figure out what's the next right move. We pull up a seat at the table. And on today's show, I actually have somebody pull up a seat at the table. It's somebody I've traveled the country with, somebody I've done live events with, somebody I've shared meals with, and somebody, I'm going to be honest with you, I thought I knew really well. And I'm talking about my friend Jade Warshaw. She is a powerhouse. And she's got a new book out called What No One Tells You About Money. And we're inundated. We're inundated with money books, money headlines, money.

• 1:14Dr. John Delony?

  Here's what you do, here's what you do with your money, whatever. Nobody talks about what it feels like when you open up your account or when you're sitting there trying to make this thing called a budget or when you're just, you get your paycheck and it's already gone. Nobody talks about that despair. Nobody talks about what it's like to look up and actually add up all the money you owe somebody else, all the banks, all the car dealerships, and to realize, I'm never going to be able to have kids. I'm never going to be able to buy a house. And Jade's got a pretty extraordinary story where her and her husband worked through it all. But

• 1:56Dr. John Delony?

  This conversation is easily the most raw conversation I've had on this show. There's lots of tears shed, there's lots of hard questions asked back and forth. And it's one of the most powerful conversations I've ever been a part of, period, much less recorded. And so if you are one of the millions and millions and millions of Americans, or anybody all over the world, who you're reading all these money headlines and yada, yada, but dude, the headlines don't capture what's going on inside your chest at your kitchen table, when you can't pay your bills, or when you're like, dude, my kid can't go to that school, or I have to decide between light this month, or food, or I want my kid

• 2:37Dr. John Delony?

  to be able to go to this college or this school, and it's never gonna happen, or I'm never gonna be able to buy a house, because of the crushing weight of all this stuff. If you ever feel that, I've felt it, dude, I've paced my house at night, not knowing how I'm gonna pay my bills, and I've not, outside of a few other times, I don't really have ever felt that alone. And so if this is you, and I know it's a lot of y'all listening, I want you to pull up a seat and listen to this conversation with me and my friend Jade. It will give you some light in the darkness, and it will make you feel less alone. Jade's new book, What No One Tells You About Money, comes out January 6th, that's my birthday.

• 3:22Dr. John Delony?

  So for my birthday, I want you to buy this book, and I want you to read it, and I want you to read it with your friends, with your spouse, I want you to pull up a seat and exhale, and maybe for the first time in a long time, not feel so alone. And more importantly, or equally importantly, you're gonna have a roadmap out. It's a real roadmap that Jade cut out in the forest with a machete, her and her husband Sam, like they created a path that you can follow, and it's a path to freedom. So pull up a seat, get your friends around, this is safe for your kids to listen to, like this is a good one, and this is a powerful one. Thank you for joining me and my friend Jade Warshaw for an important, powerful conversation.

• 4:07Dr. John Delony?

  I've known you for several years now. We've traveled the country together.

• 4:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:12Dr. John Delony?

  Our desks are like down the wall from each other.

• 4:15Speaker 00

  Yours is by the window. I'm a little resentful of that.

• 4:18Dr. John Delony?

  It's cool, man. Like one of the last remainings. Tell me about Jade growing up.

• 4:22Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh. Jade growing up. Okay. You know, I feel like I can tell you from other people's perspective because like when you're a kid, you're just like in your life. You're not like thinking about it.

• 4:34Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Okay, do this. Like you're a parent. You got two kids. You're a mom. Take that view towards.

• 4:42Speaker 00

  Um, very.

• 4:44Dr. John Delony?

  Six, nine, 10.

• 4:45Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Very creative, very imaginative.

• 4:51Speaker 00

  Always had ideas that were like a little bit different.

• 4:54Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 4:56Speaker 00

  Bossy. Like I remember distinctly having this idea that I wanted to be an architect and I wanted to design my own home. And I wanted, basically what I had in my mind was a tiny house today.

• 5:08Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:08Speaker 00

  And I wanted to design this own place and just live completely by myself. And like that was an idea that I had.

• 5:14Dr. John Delony?

  Yes.

• 5:14Speaker 00

  And when we moved to Tennessee as a family, we were like coming around a bend and there was like a little tiny like shack. And I was like, that's it. Like, that's the tiny house I want to live in. Like, it was like I saw it come true and my family was like, no, you don't want to live there. Like, that's sad. But anyway.

• 5:29Dr. John Delony?

  So was creativity celebrated or were you a weird kid?

• 5:32Speaker 00

  Uh, I think that it wasn't uncelebrated, but it also wasn't invested in. So like for me growing up, it was like sports. Like if you could excel in sports,

• 5:42Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 5:43Speaker 00

  we'll invest in that. We'll get you what you need. We'll be at the games. But like music, not as much. And so while I loved sports and I loved basketball, loved volleyball, loved jump roping,

• 5:56Speaker 00

  I also really loved singing and loved the arts, but my mom, it was like my mom was the singer. So like, I never felt like I wanted to really show them that I could do that because I felt like I'd have to be like compared with my mom. My mom's an amazing singer. And so I used to hide that. And I thought that if I sang under the covers, nobody could hear me. And so I'd sing under the covers, thinking nobody could hear me.

• 6:20Dr. John Delony?

  What was, is that, is that weird being in? I mean, that's, that's a, like a pretty astute understanding at a young age, like, I'm competing.

• 6:30Speaker 00

  Everything was a competition.

• 6:32Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about that.

• 6:33Speaker 00

  Um, so, okay, so my dad was a football coach, so there's that. Like, there's coach.

• 6:40Dr. John Delony?

  Like, what ages was he coaching?

• 6:42Speaker 00

  My whole li- my whole, like, young life. I was born into him coaching, um, at Eastern Washington University. Before that, he was at Nebraska, yeah.

• 6:50Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, gosh.

• 6:50Speaker 00

  So, and then when I was first, second, third grade, he was at Oregon State. So, like, coaching, coaching.

• 6:56Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 6:57Speaker 00

  And.

• 6:58Dr. John Delony?

  Not like YMCA coaching, but like a professional college coach.

• 7:00Speaker 00

  Professional college coach, uh, Pac-10, like, legit.

• 7:03Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:04Speaker 00

  And so, because of that, like, the nature of that life, you do move a lot. So, like, I was born in Washington, moved to Oregon, moved to Kansas, moved to Illinois, moved to Tennessee. We were supposed to move to Texas, but my dad moved because we had already moved so much that he went on his own. Um, and because of that, like I said before, it's like, you're going to these cities, you have to make friends. And for me, I was always, like, all of those parts of the country, like, I was always the only black kid in my class. Sometimes, like, in the entire school.

• 7:34Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 7:34Speaker 00

  And so, for me, the, the first thing was like, how can I make friends? Like, I can't, like, because it was a competition, like, I've got to be able to fit in, I've got to be able to make friends, I've got to be better than the other options. Otherwise, I'm going to get left out, I'm going to get made fun of.

• 7:47Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 7:47Speaker 00

  So, it's like, hey, now I can prove to them, like, I can be really great at sports, really talented. Like, all of these things to prove that I'm, like, up here. And so, that's how it got to be for me. Like, I can't just play basketball, I have to be the best one on the team.

• 8:02Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 8:02Speaker 00

  I can't just be the best one on the team, I have to be the captain of the team.

• 8:05Dr. John Delony?

  But, but usually, that social pressure, I'll say usually, sometimes that social pressure, you come home and you can drop your shoulders. But if you walk in the house and I'm also competing with mom, I'm also competing with dad.

• 8:21Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 8:23Dr. John Delony?

  That's heavy.

• 8:24Speaker 00

  I don't know that I was in my head competing with them, but I definitely.

• 8:29Dr. John Delony?

  I know this is, I can't let this part of myself be seen because that's theirs.

• 8:33Speaker 00

  A little bit of that, a little bit of that, um.

• 8:39Speaker 00

  I'm sorry. I know what I want to say, but I'm deciding, do I want to say it?

• 8:43Dr. John Delony?

  You say it and we edit it out.

• 8:45Speaker 00

  I also know, like, I had, I felt like I did have a very clear role to play in my house. It wasn't necessarily as, um, like, my brother was the jester. Like, he was the one that was, like, comic relief. But I feel like I was the one that was like, I have to keep everything together. Like, I have to keep everything balanced. If they're angry, like, I gotta make it right. If they're this, I gotta, so I have to be like, good grades, you know, not getting in trouble, not like, that was my role. It's like, I'm gonna be straight ahead. If you ask me, Jade, clean up the kitchen, I'm gonna do it perfect. If you say, Jade, get dinner started when you get home, I'm gonna do it perfect. Like, that, that was my role because I didn't want anything to like, I want, like, peacekeeper. Like, I don't want anything to disrupt it.

• 9:28Dr. John Delony?

  How has that shown back up in your adult life?

• 9:32Speaker 00

  Uh, I feel like it's gone the opposite direction. Now I don't care about keeping peace at all. I'm like, I am the most truth teller that I can be because I spent a lot of time covering things. So now I'm like, almost to a fault. I feel like I have to say what it is.

• 9:53Speaker 00

  And in this role, it's served me well.

• 9:54Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. What was that switch?

• 9:59Dr. John Delony?

  Most people never make that switch until their marriage is in ash.

• 10:02Speaker 00

  Probably getting married.

• 10:05Speaker 00

  Probably being married and

• 10:08Speaker 00

  understanding that, um, you have to live in reality if you want a marriage to work.

• 10:14Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, most people don't. It took me, like, being married 15 years for I was like, oh, we're about to not be married anymore.

• 10:18Speaker 00

  But if you see, if you see the opposite, then you know. Like, we all take things from our past, right? Like, we take, we, most of the times we're like, oh, you know, my, my parents, they taught me this and this and that. And you're like, naming all these wonderful things. But you can also learn so much of what not to do. Yes. And I mean, listen, my kids are gonna learn things from me of what not to do. I hope they learn more of what to do. But you can either look at the stuff that was, like, negative and go, oh, my God, I can't believe this happened, blah, blah, blah. Or you can go, hey, I just got a crash course in what I'm not gonna do. And that's so great to be able to know that. Like, they're all learnings and they're all, it's all research. So I knew, I'm like, we must like, and Sam will tell you, you know, Sam.

• 11:01Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 11:02Speaker 00

  Sam will tell you, living with Jade is hard because Jade does not let anything slide. I don't let anything slide. And sometimes he's like, can we just? Like, can you please just?

• 11:13Dr. John Delony?

  What is holding it so tight? What does that, what does that get you?

• 11:16Speaker 00

  Reality. Like, living in reality, like, I never, like, I'm like Judge Judy. I'm like, don't be on my leg and tell me it's raining. Like, that is my number one thing. I cannot stand it. I can't stand it. And my, so when I came here to Ramsey, I started seeing a therapist. And she told me, she was like, you know, for you, Jade, she was like, you just want, you just want somebody to hear something and verify that it was true. Because when you were a kid, nobody acknowledged anything. And I was like, yes. And so you go in your head and you're like, after a while, when nobody, when something happens and nobody acknowledges it, after a while, you're like, did I make that up?

• 11:55Dr. John Delony?

  Am I crazy?

• 11:55Speaker 00

  Or like, did I, did I? And so I, I hate that. And so now in reality, if something happens, I'm be like, oh, why did you lie? Or why did I lie? Or, um, you know, like, I just, I just say it because I want to know that it was said and I want to know that I acknowledged it and it was like marked as, yeah, that happened. You know, I'm like that. I know you've seen it.

• 12:18Dr. John Delony?

  I know. Um, um, um, uh.

• 12:23Speaker 00

  I'm just not playing games out here.

• 12:26Dr. John Delony?

  Is that exhausting?

• 12:27Speaker 00

  No.

• 12:28Dr. John Delony?

  No?

• 12:28Speaker 00

  It's easy. It's so liberating. Why would it be hard? Why is it hard?

• 12:33Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, let me say it this way, let me say it this way. Not easy, but in our current world, and by the way, this is my favorite, one of my favorite things about you. It's why I consider you someone I trust. That comes at a cost. Does that, that make sense?

• 12:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, then they weren't supposed to be by me anyway.

• 12:52Dr. John Delony?

  I know, but that's lonely, though. Do you think or no?

• 12:55Speaker 00

  Uh, uh.

• 12:57Dr. John Delony?

  And I get what I'm saying. It sounds like what I'm saying is, I'd rather be surrounded by a bunch of people who kind of don't know than, than have nobody, right?

• 13:05Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 13:05Dr. John Delony?

  But it's an exhausting, when you feel like you're the only person in any environment, any relationship, any, anything, always calling it out.

• 13:12Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 13:13Dr. John Delony?

  That's exhausting.

• 13:14Speaker 00

  Um, I don't know. For me, it doesn't feel exhausting. Somebody's got to do it. Um.

• 13:22Speaker 00

  Somebody's gotta do it. And let's be honest, most of us only have a couple of really close friends anyway.

• 13:27Dr. John Delony?

  Right.

• 13:27Speaker 00

  So everything else is like outer layer stuff. Like, it's nice to have, but the people who know me best.

• 13:34Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 13:34Speaker 00

  My husband, my sister, my buddy, you know, I have a couple of buddies that like, they know me. And they have never been like, hey, Jade, you're a little too honest. They've never said that. They've always accepted me as I am.

• 13:46Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 13:47Speaker 00

  And so I'm fine with that. And like anybody else, if it makes them uncomfortable, it's because they're probably trying to hide something. Or they're trying to play me. And I'm like, why are you trying to play me? Don't do that.

• 13:59Dr. John Delony?

  If the whole world operated like you, we would get, we would be able to operate at a much higher level. It's awesome.

• 14:09Speaker 00

  Well, that's very, that is very kind, probably overly kind, but I'll take it.

• 14:14Dr. John Delony?

  No.

• 14:18Dr. John Delony?

  I, I, I struggle with the balance of saying something and then letting something just happen.

• 14:23Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 14:24Dr. John Delony?

  That makes sense.

• 14:25Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 14:25Dr. John Delony?

  And so like I, it's a, it's a daily thing for me to live in reality. It's a, it's a practice for me.

• 14:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:31Dr. John Delony?

  But also, is the reality of me saying this thing, is that gonna get me the reality? Or do I need to have, I remember talking to one guy and was like, the only thing worse who hated conflict and was a professional, I mean, he does conflict for a living. He's a famous guy. But I remember him saying, the only thing I hate worse than conflict is going to bed and knowing you didn't tell the truth today. And it's a war inside him, right? And so I, I wrestle with that. Like,

• 14:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:57Dr. John Delony?

  I need to speak up here and say something. Or everybody in this room knows how insane this is. I'm gonna let this plane land. Cause I know it's gonna land. Cause this is madness, right? I wrestle with that.

• 15:06Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, let's get one thing straight. If, if, if, if you, and I will say that I, I, I was guilty of this.

• 15:17Speaker 00

  If I'm this way and it's only towards other people, then I'm just critical. Right? Like, I'm just always going, well, you, this is what you did, this is what you said, dah dah dah dah dah. I had a really good friend, you need, you need good friends. I had a really good friend that she was like, man, you're hard to know. She was like, you're just, she's like-

• 15:34Dr. John Delony?

  What does that mean?

• 15:35Speaker 00

  She was like, you just, it takes, she said, it takes so long to get to know you. And this was years back. And I was like, I don't know what you mean by that. And then I had another friend, I asked another friend and she was like, yeah. She was like, think about it. We knew each other 10 years before we were really good friends. Like, like, really? And I was like, huh. And then I asked another friend and they were like, yeah. Like, so I got, I got the verification. And then I had kids and that, that's really what I think changed that of like, hey, I can't just be like laser focused on what everybody else is doing and calling out, like, I have to, even though I'm doing that within myself, I have to be open to other people so that it doesn't just come across as, man, Jade is critical.

• 16:19Speaker 00

  Jade is just like really tough. She's nice, but she's like tough to, she's like a hard nut to crack, right? And, um, yeah, it took a friend to be like, like, you need a hug. You need to give some people a hug, like that kind of thing. And I really do give her credit for like saying that. And then like having kids that, that also helped that. Cause now it's like, coming here, I would never have had this interview with you. But now I'm like, what do you want to know? What do I have to hide? I don't have anything to hide.

• 16:52Dr. John Delony?

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• 17:36Dr. John Delony?

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• 18:20Dr. John Delony?

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• 19:04Dr. John Delony?

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• 19:46Dr. John Delony?

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• 19:53Dr. John Delony?

  You went to college on a full ride.

• 19:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:55Dr. John Delony?

  As an athlete.

• 19:56Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 19:57Dr. John Delony?

  Um, you meet this guy who I love.

• 20:03Dr. John Delony?

  What was it about this Sam guy? That you were like, I'm gonna do the rest of my life with that guy?

• 20:09Speaker 00

  He was totally different than everybody that I'd ever met.

• 20:13Dr. John Delony?

  I didn't know till just now your dad was a college football coach. I can't think of a more not Sam thing.

• 20:20Speaker 00

  Complete opposite. Sam is my grandfather.

• 20:24Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about that.

• 20:24Speaker 00

  So I remember reading once that a lot of girls like try to find a guy like their dad and marry their dad.

• 20:34Speaker 00

  It sounds weird, but you know what I mean?

• 20:35Dr. John Delony?

  No, totally.

• 20:36Speaker 00

  Um, and I remember talking to Sam, this was after, like a little after we'd gotten married. And we were talking about that. He was like, I am not your dad. And I was like, no, you're not. And I thought for a minute and I was like, oh, you're my granddad, like you're my grandfather. Like my grandfather, I, I didn't get to see him as much as I wanted to because he lived across country. But like, he was always just very steady. He never like got worked up that I saw. His, his, his tone was always right here. He was always saying something reasonable. Nothing really ruffled his feathers. Like in my mind, like that was such like a steady, like steady Eddie and that Sam, like Sam is number one, the only person that could be married to me.

• 21:20Speaker 00

  And vice versa, possibly. Um, but he's just so like, you know him, he doesn't go.

• 21:25Dr. John Delony?

  I call him a walking Xanax.

• 21:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:27Dr. John Delony?

  He just is.

• 21:28Speaker 00

  He's just right there.

• 21:29Dr. John Delony?

  But his right there is not aloofness. It's kindness and generosity, like insane, really perceptive generosity.

• 21:36Speaker 00

  Absolutely. He's very sensitive. He's very like aware of like what's going on.

• 21:43Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

• 21:46Dr. John Delony?

  So you've got this story and we won't rehash it much here because you told this story. And I want people to read your, your new book. You go to college, you got a full ride, you take out a whole bunch of student loans because it's just free money. And we're 18, whatever. And then you get married to a guy that also has his own stuff, right? Y'all sit down and y'all are pretty close to owing together and your new life together, half a million bucks. And a hodgepodge of stuff.

• 22:16Dr. John Delony?

  Student loans and cars and.

• 22:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, mostly student loans by far. Yeah.

• 22:21Dr. John Delony?

  Well, what's a moment?

• 22:24Dr. John Delony?

  Like, there has to be that add up moment where this stuff all. Cause you and I were talking about this a couple of weeks ago, like, there's a million, a million books, a million voices, a million people trying to tell the story about you should do this with your money, this should do this, the psychology of money, that this is, all that's fine and good.

• 22:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:42Dr. John Delony?

  Nobody has, tells the story of,

• 22:48Dr. John Delony?

  oh, God.

• 22:50Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 22:51Dr. John Delony?

  That gets left out. Everybody wants to run to the path and here's what you do. But nobody tells the truth about like.

• 22:58Speaker 00

  Like the life that's happening around it?

• 23:00Dr. John Delony?

  I, I owe half a million dollars.

• 23:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:04Dr. John Delony?

  Or for most, like, I, I owe 300 or 200,000 dollars.

• 23:10Speaker 00

  Right, right, right. It's that, but it's the life happening around it that makes it even more like, like crushing, right?

• 23:20Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about, what do you mean?

• 23:20Speaker 00

  Cause, okay, so when we, we got married, it was about a week after graduation. You know, when you get married or when you graduate, student loans aren't due till you've got that grace period, right?

• 23:30Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 23:31Speaker 00

  Um, so nothing was due yet, but it was 2007 going into 2008 great recession. So it, it was like right as we were turning the corner to 2008, everything starts, gas prices are crazy, real estate markets folding in. That's when the student loan payments started coming in the mail. And it was like first mine came and then his started coming and I was like, oh, holy hell, like what is going on? And that was when, that was the first, like, I'll call that the first crack of when I was like, hey, like, I know my student loans, like, it was like bills would come and we, it was like whoever saw the bill would pay it, but it wasn't like, we weren't having conversations about it. Our money was combined, but we weren't talking about money.

• 24:10Dr. John Delony?

  Totally.

• 24:10Speaker 00

  So I was like, if the bill comes, yeah, I see it, I'll pay it. Um, Firestone, oh, that's a credit card. Oh, okay, I'll pay it, you know? Chevron, you have a credit card for your gas? That's kind of weird, but okay.

• 24:20Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 24:20Speaker 00

  Let's pay it. Uh, Express, you have a credit card for clothes? Oh, all right, I'll pay it. Student loans, holy moly, like that, how much are your student loans? Like, so that's how it started happening. Um, is seeing the bills come in and I was like, I remember one day I was like, hey, I need to know exactly how much your student loans are because your bills are high. And he was like, oh, it was like, I think they're like around a hundred and twenty. Like, I remember, I remember we signed one for one hundred and twenty. So it was like, as I would ask him, I could tell he really didn't know. Like, he had an idea, but he really didn't know and.

• 24:57Dr. John Delony?

  Let me pause here. That right there is an important thing that like, we go through dating for four or five years. We are two or three, however long you're dated. We meet each other's families, we do holidays, we fall for each other, we go get married. We may do premarital counseling, we do all the stuff. And we don't know that part.

• 25:15Speaker 00

  No.

• 25:16Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 25:16Speaker 00

  No, I mean.

• 25:17Dr. John Delony?

  I don't even know what I'm walking into.

• 25:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:19Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, yeah, it didn't even occur to any of us to ask that question.

• 25:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:25Dr. John Delony?

  That's a, that's a wild thing, right?

• 25:27Speaker 00

  It is.

• 25:28Dr. John Delony?

  It, it tells me what's so backwards about how we do love now, which is, how do you feel first? And then every, and then the rest of it, like you say, like, we don't have to deal with reality. Cause the only thing that matters is how we feel about each other.

• 25:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:40Dr. John Delony?

  Right? It's like, no, no, there's a reality to this. Geez, so he doesn't know the number?

• 25:44Speaker 00

  He doesn't know the number and like, the more I asked him, like, the more I realized like, oh, this is a pain point, like, there's something there. And I kind of got to the point where I was like, are you keeping it from me? Like, do you really know and you're just not telling me? Because I could see that he was getting agitated about it. But truly, he was probably getting agitated because me being me was like, how much is, like, how much are the loans? You know, um, so early on, I will be honest, like, early on, my personality versus his personality, I wasn't the most tactful. Okay, like, I am gonna say that. Um, and so that didn't really do anything to help him want to divulge something very, like, vulnerable, like, hey, I have a lot of student loan debt, so I didn't help that process.

• 26:27Speaker 00

  Um, and it wasn't until a couple of, like, really, like, one or two years later, we'd gone, we'd moved down to South Florida and, uh, his grandfather had passed away and left him a little bit of money. It was supposed to be a lot of money, but because of the Great Recession, they cashed out at the bottom. And so it was like crazy. Well, anyway. Um, we were there at the house and uh, he had just gotten access to the money. And it was like, okay, we're gonna use this to pay off some student loans. It was like thirty thousand dollars. And I remember like hearing somebody like reading off like the different debts. And that kind of struck me as like, well, which one do we want to put this thirty thousand dollars on? Meanwhile, I'm like, I only have thirty thousand dollars of debt.

• 27:10Speaker 00

  Like that, I remember specifically like where I was sitting in the living room. That struck me. I was like, oh, there's more that here than I thought. And so that's-

• 27:19Dr. John Delony?

  And remember being twenty-two or twenty-five, like thirty thousand bucks is a million dollars.

• 27:22Speaker 00

  That's a lot. That's a ton.

• 27:23Dr. John Delony?

  That's a million dollars. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:24Speaker 00

  That's a ton.

• 27:24Dr. John Delony?

  Especially in a check.

• 27:25Speaker 00

  Yes, cuz I was thinking, oh, he's gonna get this money. Like, maybe we're gonna like pay off all these debts.

• 27:29Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:30Speaker 00

  No, no, no, no. Like that, that was just a small piece. And that's when I realized it. So that was a, that was an eye-opener moment for me that I didn't really share much with him. Cuz it was just, I'm like around his family and I'm just like picking up this information. It wasn't until we had moved into an apartment and I remember just having like a moment of, we have no money. Like, something's wrong here. And so I was like, hey, I remember there's this guy, Dave, like, he has a book. Let's go to Barnes and Noble and get it. It was Total Money Makeover Workbook. Went to get it and there's a part in there where you're supposed to like list out your debts. And like, it's kind of like walking you through exercises.

• 28:11Speaker 00

  And like, I still have the book and you can see the point where it was like, no more of this. Like, the, the writing in the workbook just stopped. Because I remember in that moment, we were starting to list out the debt and it was so overwhelming that it was like, if I see this number, I'm gonna give up.

• 28:28Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 28:32Speaker 00

  And you can't give up.

• 28:35Dr. John Delony?

  But most do. Cuz it's so big.

• 28:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 28:40Dr. John Delony?

  Cuz after four hundred thousand, it's five million dollars. I mean, it's, it's an, it's a monopoly money at that point, right? I mean, it's like when you start writing down, I, it's funny you say that. I was in a Barnes and Noble when I went and got the workbook. That's where I went.

• 28:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:51Dr. John Delony?

  And um, but it-

• 28:57Dr. John Delony?

  I guess the the conversation I've never heard had is like the pacing around the middle of the night, like the like the I can't I can't eat and like I remember Sheila, my wife, not knowing.

• 29:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:13Dr. John Delony?

  I remember she would she just would go to sleep.

• 29:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:16Dr. John Delony?

  I was like, I don't we don't have any money. You know what I mean? Like, I don't have. It was wild, right?

• 29:22Speaker 00

  I do know.

• 29:23Dr. John Delony?

  So how's how's the reckoning conversation happen? Because there has to be like a we're writing this down.

• 29:30Speaker 00

  Um.

• 29:32Dr. John Delony?

  Let me don't let me don't gloss over this. Like you take me back here because you're here now. Like you're you're there now. Like you're looking at this workbook. Is Sam sitting with you?

• 29:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, we're sitting we're sitting together in our apartment. And we're going through the numbers and it was like at a certain point, I was like, OK, close the book. We already know what we have to do. Like, we don't need to just sit and list this out and get more depressed. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, probably the smartest thing. I know, like, over here, we teach list all your debts, write them all out. If I had written out all the debts that night.

• 30:01Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 30:02Speaker 00

  John, it would have been curtains. Like, that's it. Like, we're not. I don't know what that would have meant, but I think we would have been so overcome. I don't think we ever would have started. And so it was like, OK, forget that. Like, we just need to work and like make a lot of money. Like, we need to just figure out ways to make money because that's the only thing that's going to get us out of this. And so we came out of that. Ah, we came out of that knowing, OK, we're going to do this baby step thing. Our first course of action is figuring out how we can make more money. Um, and then it kind of like the way I think of it in my mind is like then somebody turned the lights out. Because right about then, we went to work on ships.

• 30:48Speaker 00

  And it was like we had had this thing in our mind that we were like ready, break, like look at each other in the eye. And then it was like my grandfather died. Little while later, Sam's dad died. And it was like dark for a couple of years.

• 31:03Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 31:03Speaker 00

  And like in the darkness, we were like toiling and like doing stuff. But there was it wasn't like.

• 31:08Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 31:09Speaker 00

  It wasn't like that. It was like we're just it's like when you. Somebody calls you in the middle of the night and, and you're just like putting your clothes on real quick. You're like, you don't even turn the lights on. You're just like.

• 31:20Dr. John Delony?

  But suddenly you.

• 31:21Speaker 00

  It was like doing that for three years.

• 31:23Dr. John Delony?

  In the car and you're a mile away from your house. Yeah.

• 31:24Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. And it was, and then it was like a couple of years passed and the lights turned back on.

• 31:30Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So.

• 31:31Speaker 00

  And then it was like, okay.

• 31:32Dr. John Delony?

  Whenever, whenever somebody dies. And, and two people are married, somebody passes away, kid or a parent. And whenever they come over to my house and say, what do we do next? The first question I always have is, do y'all want to stay married? Because people grieve differently.

• 31:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:50Dr. John Delony?

  And that's the tension. I can't believe you're not over this yet. I can't believe you haven't moved on yet. And that starts numbing behaviors that go like this, right?

• 31:59Dr. John Delony?

  How did y'all stay? Cause that's a lot on top of a lot on top of a lot.

• 32:06Dr. John Delony?

  Cause as you're describing it, I'm realizing my marriage is not safe. I'm realizing this guy just pledged my life to Oz what? And I didn't know. And then I lose this man that is, is a paternal figure in my life. And then he loses that. That's a lot for a young couple to absorb. That's a lot for a couple to marry for 30 years to absorb.

• 32:27Speaker 00

  Yeah. Um.

• 32:30Speaker 00

  I don't know that we did a good job of it. Like, I mean, I'm not going to sit here and be like, well, I just.

• 32:35Dr. John Delony?

  Every morning.

• 32:37Speaker 00

  No, I mean, I could tell you right now, like, sometimes I think back on it and I'm like, I just didn't know. How to handle it. It was a lot going on. Um, things I can't say in this room.

• 32:47Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 32:48Speaker 00

  And I don't, I didn't know what to do. I didn't. I mean. He didn't know what to do either. I think, I mean, at that point.

• 32:59Dr. John Delony?

  Totally.

• 32:59Speaker 00

  Staying alive. You're just like staying alive, man. Like. I mean, I love Sam and that's all there is to it.

• 33:08Speaker 00

  And he loves me and the best advice I ever got and as, as like.

• 33:16Speaker 00

  I don't know, like as simple as it may sound. It was the best advice I ever read. Somebody didn't tell me I read it. It was like, you have to remember goodwill. And at the end of the day, you have to remember, like, this person I married, are they, do I really think, like, because stuff is going to happen all the time, right? Like, you hurt Sheila's feelings, Sheila hurts your feelings. You know, something's happened. At the end of the day, it's like, if I'm really honest with myself, do I really think this person's out to hurt me? Or do I think that they have goodwill towards me and they're just struggling?

• 33:50Dr. John Delony?

  But somebody can have goodwill and that doesn't make them safe to anchor into.

• 33:54Speaker 00

  It doesn't, but it does make it, make you not make them the bad guy.

• 33:58Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 33:59Speaker 00

  Right? Like, and that was the thing I think he had to remember about me and I had to remember about him is, hey, I have goodwill towards you and you have goodwill towards me. There are things in our past that have really jacked with how we are able to process problems. But at the end of the day, you're doing the best you can, I'm doing the best I can. And we might be like, not able to be there for each other in the way that each of us needs right now, but no one's going anywhere.

• 34:30Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 34:30Speaker 00

  And that was one of the things that we said, one of the things we said like early on is like, I'm not going anywhere. I, I'm just not. And I, I, and I knew that about him too. And so.

• 34:42Dr. John Delony?

  It almost, that can almost be a curse.

• 34:44Speaker 00

  Bro, I'm like, I'm the ball and chain, you ain't getting rid of me.

• 34:47Dr. John Delony?

  You would go, right? Yeah, yeah. There's so much here.

• 34:50Speaker 00

  You ain't getting rid of me.

• 34:51Dr. John Delony?

  And so I'm also, and he's not here to defend himself. I'm also, I cannot imagine the, the only word I can think of right now, I can't imagine the shame I would feel.

• 35:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:07Dr. John Delony?

  Like trying, trying to say like I'm a husband. And we're not, we're gonna have to postpone having kids. We're gonna have to postpone this house. I'm gonna have to postpone this, I'm supposed to.

• 35:18Speaker 00

  It was a problem.

• 35:19Dr. John Delony?

  Financially, she's worse off because she's with me. Like, that would, I remember, because emotionally, I was like that for my wife.

• 35:27Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 35:27Dr. John Delony?

  You are worse off because you're with a crazy guy.

• 35:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:31Dr. John Delony?

  And that, like, I felt like every day I was waking up with already like a ruck bag on. You know what I'm saying?

• 35:38Speaker 00

  That was my biggest, that shame was the biggest fear I had in our marriage.

• 35:44Dr. John Delony?

  His or yours?

• 35:45Speaker 00

  Mine, because I saw it, and, and I mean, I'll say, uh, when I was writing the book, this was the story, this was the part that I, that I, I, I knew I wanted to write about, but it was very hard because, and I, I said to Sam, I was like, hey, I'm putting this in here. He was like, yes. Because I think that this is what people feel and they don't say it. Like, shame is such a, it's such a secret. Like, it's like, it wants to be your biggest, like, your deepest, darkest secret, right? That you're, you have become this identity. And even though, like, in the light of day, or like, in conversations, it'd be like, alright, ready, break.

• 36:29Speaker 00

  Like, we're on the same team, like, we're paying off our debt, dah, dah, dah. I just, and I'll never, I'll just never forget this, John, because it, it was like, it went into my soul. We, okay, so at the time, we were living in a townhouse. It was my mother-in-law's townhouse. She was letting us rent it at, at cost. And we had roommates. Roommates were living downstairs, we were living upstairs. And my husband was in the, you know, it was nighttime, we were getting ready for bed. He was in the bathroom brushing his teeth. And he was just, I was walking by the bathroom and I could see him in the, in the mirror. He was just standing there brushing his teeth, but he was like, like, his eyes were like gone.

• 37:07Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 37:08Speaker 00

  I mean, they were gone.

• 37:09Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 37:16Dr. John Delony?

  You're good.

• 37:19Speaker 00

  I just never saw that. I'd never seen that level of despair.

• 37:27Speaker 00

  And I, in my mind, I was like, it's my job to make sure he keeps his life.

• 37:34Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 37:34Speaker 00

  This is my job.

• 37:35Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 37:38Speaker 00

  And that, it was my job for five years.

• 37:44Speaker 00

  And I remember one time I told him, I was like, the hardest conversation I had with him, I was like, I gotta, my, I feel like I can't carry this anymore. Like, I feel like, and he, cause he didn't know, I never said anything. But like, I was afraid, like, I was like, man, he doesn't see his.

• 38:06Speaker 00

  I just was.

• 38:11Speaker 00

  I just told him, I was like, listen, I'm afraid you're gonna take your life, like, flat out.

• 38:15Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 38:17Speaker 00

  And he was like, I understand that.

• 38:19Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 38:28Speaker 00

  And so saying that stuff out loud, that's the stuff, that's the stuff that eats you alive.

• 38:32Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 38:36Speaker 00

  And that's what shame does. It makes you feel like you're just not worth being.

• 38:41Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 38:41Speaker 00

  And that you've ruined everything and that your very existence is messing up somebody else's existence.

• 38:48Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, you're a burden.

• 38:48Speaker 00

  You're a burden.

• 38:49Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 38:49Speaker 00

  And that's just not true.

• 38:52Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 38:53Speaker 00

  It's just not. And

• 38:58Speaker 00

  that was the hardest part.

• 39:01Speaker 00

  But that's not in the numbers, right?

• 39:03Dr. John Delony?

  That's, that's the thing.

• 39:03Speaker 00

  That's not in the math.

• 39:04Dr. John Delony?

  Right, it's not in the math.

• 39:05Speaker 00

  And that's, that, for me, is what's been missing from all of this. I'm like, bro, there's people on the other side of this.

• 39:13Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 39:15Dr. John Delony?

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• 39:58Dr. John Delony?

  nighttime devotional. This is how things slow down, and I quit fighting my own thoughts, and I close my day with something positive. Hallow has daily devotionals, thoughtful meditations about prayer and leading a spiritual life, all in one place. It helps me pause and reflect, instead of just reacting to everything. Bottom line, Hallow helps me make space for peace with ancient wisdom. And I need that, we all do. So if you want to anchor your day, I want you to go check out Hallow. Right now, when you sign up at hallow.com/deloney, you get three months of the app for free. That's Hallow, H-A-L-L-O-W.com/deloney, for three full months for free.

• 40:41Dr. John Delony?

  Here's where, for me, and I've told you this privately, but you're a person that I hold what I would call anchored respect for, and I reserve that for very few people. And the cultural air we breathe is, whatever it is, it's not fair. That's the air we breathe. It's not fair. It shouldn't have happened. And because it's not fair...

• 41:08Speaker 00

  What's fair?

• 41:11Dr. John Delony?

  In anything that makes me uncomfortable or anything that shouldn't have happened that way, from I shouldn't have been abused as a kid, you're right, it's not fair, to my dad worked long hours to put food on the table, that was a fair, whatever, all the way to, hey, we were two dumb eighteen, nineteen, twenty, twenty-one year olds who signed up for a million different things, because the college counselor just kept telling us to sign up and sign up, and we did, and we had a fun four or five years, and now we have a million dollars, it's not fair. Or, I did this, I did this, I did, like, it's not fair. And so, I'm gonna war against the system, I'm gonna war against these people, I'm gonna do everything but look in the mirror and say, I think I can.

• 41:55Dr. John Delony?

  Or, regardless of whose quote-unquote fault it is, I'm the one who has to choose what I'm gonna do next. Looking at your husband, that's, my show wouldn't exist if people didn't get there and leave.

• 42:10Speaker 00

  Well, what's the alternative? Like, that's my, that was always my question.

• 42:13Dr. John Delony?

  My show exists because people take the alternative path. Like, oh, I'm not handling that, that's your problem, or you shouldn't have, or you need to go get help, instead of saying, alright, for the next few years, like, I'm gonna be your oxygen tank, because we're gonna get through this together, right?

• 42:28Speaker 00

  Well, that's when I had to go back to the childhood of, this is what I do.

• 42:33Dr. John Delony?

  Gotcha.

• 42:34Speaker 00

  This is my job. My job is to make everything

• 42:37Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 42:38Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 42:39Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 42:40Speaker 00

  And, I know, like, listen, I know how to wear that hat, and so I did.

• 42:43Dr. John Delony?

  Would you do that differently?

• 42:44Speaker 00

  No, it was necessary. It was necessary growing up, and it was necessary then.

• 42:48Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 42:49Speaker 00

  And, one of the great things that my dad taught me is, he always told us, you're the leader. When you walk in the room, you're the leader. That's what he always told us, and so, you should carry yourself as such.

• 43:04Dr. John Delony?

  Gotcha.

• 43:05Speaker 00

  And so, in those moments, there's a part in my body that goes, you're the leader.

• 43:09Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 43:11Dr. John Delony?

  Do you ever get to turn that off?

• 43:14Speaker 00

  Um, I'd like to turn it off more.

• 43:16Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 43:17Speaker 00

  But not because of him now, but just in life.

• 43:21Dr. John Delony?

  I'm saying like be with people instead of leading all the time, right?

• 43:24Speaker 00

  Ah, yeah, I wish I could. Listen, if I'm in the place that I can.

• 43:29Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 43:30Speaker 00

  Like, what was that? What was the trend that was going that was like? I don't know, maybe Kelly knows. When it was like, women were like, I want to be on my softer side. Or it was like, they want to be in the season of like softness. I can't remember what it was called. If I can be in my season of soft, I'm gonna call it season of softness. If I can be in that, yes. Hello, like I'm a woman. I would love to just be. Somebody put a warm blanket on me, you know what I'm saying? Like, rub my back, you know? If I cannot be in that role, I love it. But if I have to, trust and believe, like.

• 44:03Dr. John Delony?

  I will.

• 44:05Speaker 00

  We're getting into it.

• 44:09Dr. John Delony?

  So together, yeah, there's a math problem. We gotta go work 500 jobs. We're, y'all, y'all are like world-class musicians. Y'all hit the road and y'all perform for everybody. Y'all go do this. So there's a, there's a math problem there. And y'all go out solving that math problem. And it's literally, you and I talk about this all the time. You can spend less, you can make more. I wish it was more complex than that, but that's really it. We're not gonna sleep. We're not gonna have furniture. We're not gonna do all these things. And again, it is quote-unquote not fair that we're newlyweds, we're this talented. Y'all are two of the most talented people I know.

• 44:45Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 44:45Dr. John Delony?

  Y'all are both good humans.

• 44:46Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 44:47Dr. John Delony?

  It shouldn't be like that, right? And, um,

• 44:52Dr. John Delony?

  because we have this reality, this math problem, we have to live in a condo that we're bumming off his mom. And we gotta have roommates. Should it be that way? No. Is it? Yes. Right? There's a reality to that for a season, right?

• 45:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 45:07Dr. John Delony?

  Y'all head about this math problem. There has to be time in year six. Y'all did this for eight years, almost a decade, because that's how big the hole y'all dug was.

• 45:17Dr. John Delony?

  There has to be a moment in year six where you're like, no.

• 45:22Dr. John Delony?

  I can't stay on a workout plan for forty five days, right?

• 45:27Speaker 00

  Well, um, I mean, don't get me wrong, like, there's parts where you're...

• 45:33Dr. John Delony?

  You had to lean over sometime and just be like, "I hate you." There had to have been those moments.

• 45:38Speaker 00

  Yes, but at the same time, it's like, in this... I-I'm saying this, but I think you'll know what I mean. Like, human beings are extremely adaptive. Like, we're so adaptive. So whatever you set as the new norm becomes the new norm, whether you... And that can be just as dysfunctional as you want it to be, like, you know what I'm saying?

• 45:57Dr. John Delony?

  Totally.

• 45:58Speaker 00

  There is part of that that was like, "Hey, um, we live with roommates. This is just our new norm."

• 46:03Dr. John Delony?

  That's our life.

• 46:04Speaker 00

  "Honey, I'm home." You know, you just like walk in and it's like...

• 46:07Dr. John Delony?

  It's our life.

• 46:07Speaker 00

  It's our life. And then you-you, and then maybe you, just like anything else, you get sick of that for a while, so you let the roommates go and... Now you're paying your own rent and what do you do? "Oh, let's sell one of the cars. We're a one-car family." First few weeks, it sucks, and then you get used to it, and it's just, this is my life.

• 46:20Dr. John Delony?

  You gotta come clean up. Yeah, yeah.

• 46:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, so there's part of it where, I will be honest, I think just like human nature kicks in and you're like, "This is just, this is just my life." Like, you know, it's kind of like if, I mean, I'm trying to think of an example, but yeah, you just get used to stuff. So I don't wanna...

• 46:38Dr. John Delony?

  There's some research about like baseline, which is like winning a whole bunch of money.

• 46:43Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:43Dr. John Delony?

  It's awesome for a bit.

• 46:44Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:45Dr. John Delony?

  It's extraordinary for a bit.

• 46:46Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:46Dr. John Delony?

  And then you kind of settle back into, or like getting in a tragic accident and like losing a foot, like, it's a catastrophic dip and then...

• 46:55Speaker 00

  A normalcy sets in.

• 46:56Dr. John Delony?

  "This is my life."

• 46:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:57Dr. John Delony?

  Right? "This is my life."

• 46:58Speaker 00

  And I mean, I, yeah, like, I'll be honest. When I think about that time, like I said, there was a time period where the lights were off.

• 47:06Dr. John Delony?

  Mm-hmm.

• 47:07Speaker 00

  And then there was a time period where it was like, "Hey, let's be honest, on the other side of this, we traveled the world. Like, we went to over a hundred countries. Like, we got to live our dream life in entertainment. Like, there were, uh, I thank God that he allowed that balance, because a lot of times I think that's the only thing that kept things right side up, is that there was this really sucky side over here, but then there was this really great side of how many people have a career that they loved." I loved my work.

• 47:37Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 47:37Speaker 00

  Loved it, you know, like I, I was doing, I was living a dream on that side of my life. A lot of people can't say that. So there was a lot of blessings, like I'm not going to sit up here and act like it was just like, it was the worst thing ever. No, like the stuff that sucked sucked and the stuff that was awesome was awesome. And they're both, like, they're both true.

• 47:59Dr. John Delony?

  That's one of the most important things my therapist ever told me was, I was ranting and raving about a family member. And she stopped me and she said, before we go further, you have to say five things that that person gave you. And her line was, you have to blame fair. You gotta blame fair. You gotta, you gotta blame the good stuff in your life for what you got was good. And that has to go, like, it was both. It was.

• 48:20Speaker 00

  Right. Yeah, like my church, like I could go on, like my church that I was at,

• 48:27Speaker 00

  best ever. I miss them to this day. Like, I had the best people in my life. I still do. Like, so, yeah, like that, that part was amazing. Had some of the best friends I've ever had.

• 48:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:43Dr. John Delony?

  So I've got a 15 year old and a nine year old, you know, I'm like,

• 48:49Dr. John Delony?

  if I could leave them with anything, it would be,

• 48:56Dr. John Delony?

  no matter what happens, you can. And you might have to get other people. You might have to, like, have seasons where you got roommates and you're new, like you, you have to do hard stuff.

• 49:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:06Dr. John Delony?

  But I want their internal compass to be, I can.

• 49:15Dr. John Delony?

  You've got, somehow it's instilled in you, whether it's genetic or whether it was as a coach, whatever it was, how you've turned,

• 49:26Dr. John Delony?

  like what I would call childhood performance. Kids do what keeps them safe, right? One kid became a clown, one kid mixed straight A's, one kid, like, you do what keeps you safe.

• 49:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:38Dr. John Delony?

  But you turn that into, this is how I operate, this is how I help millions of people. How do I, what lessons would you tell me? Like, so I can pass that along to my kids?

• 49:49Speaker 00

  What lesson would I tell you to pass along to your kids?

• 49:51Dr. John Delony?

  No, no, no, like, give me some, some, some meat on the bone that I can, when my kids experience X, I can say, like, I can teach them, no, no, no, you can't. What does that look like?

• 50:03Dr. John Delony?

  I'm trying to replicate my kids in you, is what I'm trying to do.

• 50:08Speaker 00

  It's a level of endurance, I just think. Like, when you do something, I mean, I'll go back to sports on this. Uh, sometimes in my mind, if I'm doing something tough physically, I tell myself, like, I can do anything for a minute, like, I can do anything. I can let it burn for a minute, I can let it hurt for a minute, I can

• 50:27Dr. John Delony?

  Be uncomfortable.

• 50:27Speaker 00

  Be uncomfortable for a minute, like, and I think it's the same thing in life, like, knowing that it really, I mean, it's like, stuff that grandma would say, but like, this too shall pass type thing, and you've just gotta keep, keep going. Like, there's just, I'm not trying to be trite, but there's just no excuse, like, there's no substitute for endurance, there's just not, like, that is part of life.

• 50:50Dr. John Delony?

  Well, you're like the curve buster, when people call into our show and they're like, I can't, and you're like, yeah, hold my beer, yes, you can, right?

• 50:57Speaker 00

  Because you can, because you can, and no one is gonna say that you're gonna feel great, like, right, like, that it's gonna hurt, or it could be painful, or it could be uncomfortable.

• 51:07Dr. John Delony?

  Or that it's not, not fair, that you're not actually a victim to the thing you are, and, what am I gonna do now?

• 51:11Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, I think the fair thing, and, and, this is one thing that I had to kind of adapt, is, if you're thinking about fairness, you're thinking about a competition. Competitions are meant to, they're, they're, they're set up to be fair, everybody starts at the same starting line, nobody gets performance enhancing supplements, everybody has the same finish line, everybody gets the same amount of time to train, whether you use it or not, like, that's fair, that ain't life.

• 51:38Dr. John Delony?

  It's not the world, yeah.

• 51:39Speaker 00

  It's not life, it's not, and the moment you start, like, letting yourself even go into that, like, that's, like, it's to have no avail.

• 51:48Dr. John Delony?

  I never thought about that, but that's an opting out of reality.

• 51:50Speaker 00

  It's opting out of reality, I'm like, what is my race? What's mine? Because The truth is, like, you might start and the gun goes and you have to immediately go straight uphill on a dirt road, you know, in the snow, like, right? Other people, they get to run straight out on, along the beach.

• 52:08Dr. John Delony?

  Running downhill.

• 52:09Speaker 00

  Some people run downhill, right? You know what I'm saying? Like, everybody's race is different. But if you're starting and you're looking over here and you're going over there, yeah, you're gonna go, well, that's not fair. But if you're just like, what is my course? Okay, what's the best way for me to finish my course? Cool.

• 52:26Dr. John Delony?

  Would you recommend to your friends?

• 52:31Dr. John Delony?

  Nope, that's not personal enough. You're, you have an amazing son, amazing daughter. They're real young. They come home from college at 21 and they're like, Mom, I've got somebody. Are you gonna encourage them to go get married?

• 52:48Speaker 00

  I mean, it depends. Tell me more. I need to know more.

• 52:53Dr. John Delony?

  I'm, I'm, I'm just fascinated by the question of why people are still getting married.

• 52:57Speaker 00

  Oh, okay, okay, we're shifting. Um, I am a...

• 53:03Dr. John Delony?

  You've seen the high and the low.

• 53:04Speaker 00

  I'm a proponent of marriage 100%.

• 53:06Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 53:06Speaker 00

  Like, I, I, I believe in marriage.

• 53:09Dr. John Delony?

  Because someone can hear your story and be like, I don't want to be attached to that for a decade.

• 53:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, you do.

• 53:14Dr. John Delony?

  That's the question.

• 53:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, you do. Um, yeah, you do, because here's the thing. It's a...

• 53:23Speaker 00

  Gosh, I'm trying to say this without sounding like super like...

• 53:26Dr. John Delony?

  No, be super like. You are super like, so...

• 53:30Speaker 00

  I mean, like, how else are you supposed to become who you're supposed to become, is my point? Like, how else? You think you're just gonna go out here and just be by yourself and everything's gonna be simple and everything's gonna be comfortable and everything's gonna be the way you like it? Like, Netflix lied to you. Like, they, they made, they curated a perfect thing for you and you got used to that. That is not life. Like, that's just, that's not how it works. You need to get in there, like...

• 53:55Speaker 00

  Nothing is more fulfilling long term than going in and getting your hands dirty with people. Life is messy. Let me tell you something. I just started being my mom's caretaker. There is nothing more messy than that, but it is the biggest blessing of your life. If you can get into people's life and you can get into the darkness and the hard stuff and the crying and the burdensome part, that's the part that is like, this is life. Like, I had a pastor buddy once, several of my friends are pastors. And this is gonna sound like, oh yeah, well duh, but when you really stop and think about it, it's true. You're a pastor, you're there for all the biggest moments of people's lives. You're there when a baby is born. You're there when people get married.

• 54:39Speaker 00

  You're there when people get divorced and you're there when people die. If you want to not get into those dirty things, you're missing out on life. Those are the biggest moments of life. And I'm like, oh, sorry, I can't cuss on your show. I'm like,

• 54:56Dr. John Delony?

  You can cuss away. Yeah, cuss away, dude.

• 54:59Speaker 00

  Yes, I'm so glad I was there when Sam was experiencing his loss with his dad. I'm so glad I was there when he was thinking about his own life. I'm so glad I was there. You know what I mean? Like, why would I change that? That's the, that's the, that is the beef of life. Like, that's the meaty part. Yeah, and to hold someone when they're crying, to hold someone when they're sick, why would you take that away? Like, why would you want to go through a life without that? It's hard in the moment, but it makes you, it makes you a person that can, I can feel this. Not just, oh, that was easy.

• 55:37Dr. John Delony?

  On the other side, celebrating by yourself.

• 55:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:39Dr. John Delony?

  When you first came here, I remember, like, we walked off stage one night and the event we did went awesome. And you mentioned something like, But Sam's not here. Like, he's always on, he's been on stage with me for the last decade. He's not, he's not on stage with me. But there was like this, a, a, you know, like you cross the finish line alone and you're like, eh, right? So it's like doing the hard stuff, but also the good stuff is so much richer to celebrate with.

• 56:08Speaker 00

  You need, you want people. Like, people are not perfect and they're not easy and neither are you. Like, that's just, that is life. Like, I don't know why you would want to do life alone. Or why you wouldn't want to do life, quote unquote, the easy way, whatever that means to you.

• 56:23Dr. John Delony?

  It's just, I think it's the bill of goods we've been sold. That is, the point of life is to not be uncomfortable.

• 56:29Speaker 00

  That's a lie.

• 56:29Dr. John Delony?

  And we can solve for everything. And finding no life, the, the, the good stuff is on, through it, but on the other side of discomfort.

• 56:42Speaker 00

  I mean, I've said this before, I would argue that the person that doesn't want to go through anything tough is the person who's immature.

• 56:47Dr. John Delony?

  Huh.

• 56:48Speaker 00

  Like, like struggles, tests, trials, that, like, that builds maturity.

• 56:51Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. But I don't, I don't want that. I don't want my dad to die. I don't want to, like, be abused as a kid. I don't want these things.

• 56:56Speaker 00

  No, I mean, I mean, that's, that's a deeper extreme, but it does.

• 57:00Dr. John Delony?

  But the recovery, yeah.

• 57:01Speaker 00

  It does, it does build something in you. Nothing is-

• 57:03Dr. John Delony?

  Healing is a nightmare, but we're gonna go through it.

• 57:05Speaker 00

  And nothing's wasted. Like, let's not forget that part.

• 57:08Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 57:09Speaker 00

  Like, nothing is.

• 57:10Dr. John Delony?

  That's a refrain I use often. Like, whenever something awful's happened, it's like, this, I won't waste this.

• 57:16Speaker 00

  Yes, nothing's wasted.

• 57:19Speaker 00

  And, and it gets to a point to see that, like, that, that's probably one of the hardest things to believe before you've gotten to it, right? Like, you have to, like, there's a, a faith that takes place of that, like, before you get to the point that you can, I don't know, say it like, as, as confidently as you or I is saying it right now, right? That's hard.

• 57:39Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 57:39Speaker 00

  But when you get to it, it's like, oh, okay. That was really sucky, maybe I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy, however.

• 57:47Dr. John Delony?

  Here's what I'm gonna do next.

• 57:48Speaker 00

  X came out of it. And here's what I'm gonna do next.

• 57:50Dr. John Delony?

  Here's what I'm gonna be next. That's awesome, dude. Thank you for coming to hang out. Thank you for being my friend.

• 57:55Speaker 00

  You're welcome. Thank you for having me.

• 57:57Dr. John Delony?

  It was awesome.

• 57:57Speaker 00

  It was.

• 57:58Dr. John Delony?

  Stay out of trouble.

• 58:01Dr. John Delony?

  Good to see ya.

• 58:02Speaker 00

  I'll do my best.

• 58:02Dr. John Delony?

  We're gonna hit the road in spring again, I can't wait to.

• 58:04Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 58:08Dr. John Delony?

  Montana Knife Company makes the best knives on the planet, period. I'm full into hunting season and my family has been celebrating cooking season with tons of people in our house and everyone in my home is using Montana Knife Company knives. Between the woods and the kitchen, I need knives that actually hold up. That's why I bought my wife the chef's knife set for Christmas a few years ago. She uses it every day and I have a number of their knives for my outdoor fishing and hunting adventures. Their knives are designed, tested and built by real hunters and real cooks. When you pick one up, you can feel the quality. They're proudly made in the USA and they're razor sharp right out of the box and tough

• 58:53Dr. John Delony?

  enough to last a lifetime. Montana Knife Company guarantees that my grandkids are going to fight over these knives someday. And if it ever needs sharpening, just send it back and they'll do it for free. Give the outdoorsman and the cook in your life a knife that they'll love and actually use. Go to MontanaKnifeCompany.com to see what's available right now. You won't be disappointed. That's MontanaKnifeCompany.com.

• 59:21Dr. John Delony?

  All right, that was my conversation with my friend Jade Warshaw, talking about what no one tells you about money, her brand new book. Jade's the real deal. She's the real deal. Her husband Sam's a good friend of mine, like they're the real deals. And this book is on pre-sale right now. If you've never written a book, you don't know how important buying the book in pre-sale actually is. And if you're interested in it, go get it now for pre-sale and they'll ship it to you the day it releases, but it releases January 6th. Go check it out. Follow Jade on all the social media platforms and she is preparing an amazing new show that will be coming out next year and I want you all to check that out, but we'll talk about that more later when it comes. Listen, whatever you're going through, you're not alone.

• 1:00:04Dr. John Delony?

  I promise you, even when it feels like you are, you're not. A lot of other people are going through it too. And there's a light at the end of that tunnel, no matter how dim it looks.

• 1:00:16Dr. John Delony?

  And I want you to grab this book. I love you guys. Thank you. Make good choices. Be kind to each other and be kind to yourself.

• 1:00:25Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's talk about your marriage. Right now, we have February and October weekends on sale for the Money in Marriage Getaway. It's the best marriage retreat on the planet. Tickets start at $749 a couple. Get yours at ramsaysolutions.com/getaway.