Turning Your Passion Into Your Profession

What can mined from the abyss that separates ordinary from extraordinary? Although he's never pedaled a single stage of the Tour de France as a professional cyclist, Mike Cotty has done things on the bike that would make even Jens Voigt (the consensus hard man of the pro peloton) cringe. Here's a taste. Last summer Mike rode his bike 1000 kilometers non-stop across 21 mountains in the Dolomites, Eastern Alps and Swiss Alps, from Conegliano, Italy, to Chamonix-Mont-Blanc, France. That's over 21,000 meters in elevation gain. That's 54 hours of riding without sleep. That's like riding 8 to 10 stages of the Tour de France without stopping. How is that even humanly possible? Mike also rode 684 kilometers for 30 hours straight across the Pyrenees from the Atlantic to the Mediterranean. A feat rivaled only by his 33-hour, 677 kilometer ride that ascended 16,000 meters of elevation gain across the Alps. Obviously I wouldn't characterize Mike as normal. Far from it. But there is a very relatable everyman aspect to Mike's story that captured my fancy. Mike's path has hardly been linear, but today he is not only an extraordinarily accomplished athlete, he is a respected filmmaker, brand ambassador, media & marketing consultant and entrepreneur. Through his company Media-24, Mike creates compelling content and develops marketing strategy for top tier organizations like Mavic, Cannondale and the Cannondale-Garmin professional cycling team. Mike's latest passion project is The Col Collective, a high quality online video resource dedicated to helping inspire and educate cyclists to reach the summit of the most spectacular mountain passes in the world. Mike's is also a path without ego, well grounded in a true desire to educate, positively impact and inspire people to overcome their own barriers. All these elements make for great conversation about passion. About pushing past that voice in your head that wants you to quit. About what is required to break through seemingly insurmountable barriers. And about the self-discovery incident to attempting something personally unprecedented. This is a conversation about the value and importance of hard work over the life hack. About the pain, suffering, joy and pride that comes with embracing the journey. About living in balance with nature. About faith, having a strong conviction about yourself and the path ahead. And it's about what's required to turn your passion into your profession. I sincerely hope you enjoy the conversation. Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 1:07Speaker 01

  Wherever you think your boundary is, if you can get to that point, but then step just a little bit further, the whole world opens up again.

• 1:15Rich Roll?

  That was Mike Cottie, and this is episode 127 of the Rich Roll Podcast.

• 1:34Rich Roll?

  Hey, everybody. Thanks for tuning in. My name is Rich Roll. I am an ultra-endurance athlete, a bestselling author, a wellness evangelist, a lifestyle entrepreneur, a husband, and father of four kids. Thanks for tuning in, where each week I sit down with the best and the brightest, the most forward-thinking, paradigm-busting minds in health, in wellness, in fitness, in sports, in nutrition, in the arts, and even entrepreneurship, to help you discover, uncover, unlock, and unleash your best, most authentic self. Thanks for listening. Thank you for spreading the word to your friends and on social media. Thank you for clicking through the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases.

• 2:22Rich Roll?

  All right, finally, on to today's guest. I want to open it up, though, with a thought, an idea, and that idea is this. What can be mined from the abyss that separates ordinary from extraordinary? What can be mined from the abyss that separates ordinary from extraordinary? And that idea is sort of at the crux of this week's show and this week's guest. It's a guy called Mike Cotty. Mike Cotty is a super interesting guy. He's a cyclist, and although he's never pedaled a single stage of the Tour de France as a professional cyclist, Mike is a guy who has done things on the bike that would make even Jens Voigt cringe.

• 3:07Rich Roll?

  Who's Jens Voigt, if you're not a cyclist? Well, he's sort of, it's kind of an inside joke in cycling, because Jens Voigt is, for those who don't know, is kind of the consensus hard man in the pro peloton. Like, nobody is tougher than Jens. And Mike Cotty's done some stuff that I think would impress even Jens. So here's a taste of what that is. Last summer, imagine this, Mike rode his bike 1,000 kilometers, nonstop. Not enough for you? That ride was across 21 mountains in the Dolomites, the Eastern Alps, and the Swiss Alps. He went from a small town in Italy all the way to Mont Blanc in France. He covered 21,000 meters in elevation gain. That's a lot of climbing uphill.

• 3:51Rich Roll?

  And he did it in 54 hours of riding without sleep. 54 hours on his bike without stopping. 1,000 kilometers, 21 mountains. What's that like? I'll tell you what that's like. That would be like riding eight to 10 stages of the Tour de France without stopping. It's insane. I've done some crazy stuff, but I really don't even know how that's even possible. And it's not the only time he's done something like this. He rode 684 kilometers for 30 hours straight across the Pyrenees, from the Atlantic to the Mediterranean. And he also rode, I don't

• 4:32Rich Roll?

  know, 677 kilometers, ascending 16,000 meters of elevation game all the way across the Alps. Like, this is an ultra endurance cyclist bar none. So obviously, I would not characterize Mike as a normal guy, far from normal. But there is a very relatable everyman aspect to Mike's story that really captured my fancy and I thought would make for a really interesting podcast conversation. So just because Mike is a guy who lacked the pure, natural talent to be a competitive professional cyclist at the very highest level, I'm talking about Tour de France, like international pro teams, that didn't mean that Mike was just gonna hang up

• 5:14Rich Roll?

  his bike. Instead, he embarked on a journey that found him walking out on a very secure career as an engineer to basically courageously jump into the abyss, a decision to live on his own terms and in accordance with his passion, the simplest things that he loves about life, like riding his bike, like connecting with nature, like expressing himself creatively and sharing his life experience to educate and inspire others to live more authentically. Mike's path was hardly linear. I mean, whose is, right? But today, he's not only an extraordinarily accomplished athlete, he's a respected filmmaker, he is a brand ambassador,

• 5:59Rich Roll?

  he's a media consultant, and he's an entrepreneur. And through his company, it's called Media24, he develops marketing strategy and creates compelling content for top-tier organizations like Mavic and Cannondale, and the Cannondale Garmin Professional Cycling Team. And he more recently launched a passion project, it's called The Col Collective, C-O-L, coal, it means climb. In a certain European language. And what is the Col Collective? Well, it's a high-quality online video resource dedicated to helping inspire and educate cyclists to reach the summit of the greatest mountain passes in the world. It's a series of videos in which Mike climbs up these extraordinarily beautiful mountains

• 6:42Rich Roll?

  and kind of talks about the history of the climb and cycling and how to approach it from a cyclist's perspective, what to expect, and how to enjoy the journey of the ascent. And what's cool about Mike is he's, you know, he's a guy who's pretty much without ego. He's really well-grounded in a true desire to just educate, positively impact, and inspire people to overcome their own barriers. All of these elements, of course, make for a great conversation about passion, about pushing past that voice in your head that wants you to quit, about what's required to break through seemingly insurmountable barriers, and about the self-discovery incident

• 7:25Rich Roll?

  to attempting something personally unprecedented. So, this is a conversation about the value and importance of hard work over the life hack, about pain, suffering, joy, and pride that comes with embracing the journey. And it's about living in balance with nature. It's about faith, having a strong conviction about yourself and the path ahead. And it's about what's required to turn your passion into your profession. So, let's check him out. We had a nice ride the other day. You had a nice tour here today. How did the tour at SciShow go?

• 8:00Speaker 01

  Oh, man, this place is incredible. We walked in and suddenly back to remembering Terminator 2 on the big screen and what the guys do, just to see, I mean, it's interesting to see the passion of everyone here. That's what sort of brings it home. Greg gave us the tour and just to see everyone's, you know, attention to detail, and they just want to be doing it because this is what they live and dream, and, you know, that's incredible.

• 8:25Rich Roll?

  But you can't relate to that, can you?

• 8:26Speaker 01

  Oh, not at all. No, not at all. No, it's good to see all these talented people.

• 8:31Rich Roll?

  Kindred spirits in their own, in their own unique expression of basically what is, you know, the same thing that you do, just in a different...

• 8:39Speaker 01

  Well, that's that's the beauty of it. At the end of the day, you know, I've always from my personal experiences, it's like, well, this is just what's in me. And it's great to see you come 5,000 miles around the world and see other people just experiencing their own thing in their own way. And forging a life and a career and, you know, everything which is in their heart and soul to basically better themselves and hopefully bring a little bit of extra joy to the world. That's what we're here for.

• 9:05Rich Roll?

  Very good. I like that. Well, let's let's set the stage a little bit. I want to put this in context, especially for the non cyclists that are listening. Who are trying to wrap their brain around who you are and what you do. Just to, yeah, to give you guys an idea of, you know, what this guy is all about and some of the things that he's done. Setting aside kind of the advocacy and the education and the inspirational work that you do. And focusing on just the pure athleticism. You've done some pretty remarkable things as a, I guess it's fair to call you an ultra endurance cyclist. Although I know you like to just think of yourself as someone who goes out for really long bike rides.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 9:42Rich Roll?

  But we're talking like really long bike rides.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, put the, you know, the word ultra and that sort of defines something, but you know.

• 9:50Rich Roll?

  It immediately categorizes you as something, right?

• 9:52Speaker 01

  I still, I do all sorts of stuff on the bike. So sometimes it's short, sometimes it's very long, but what's in. For me, yeah, the most amount of freedom comes from just when I'm, I leave my mind at the door and just go out and ride and we'll see what happens at the end of the ride.

• 10:08Rich Roll?

  And, and last August, you, this past August, you left your, your house and went out for a little bit of a jaunt. A little bit of a long ride, right? That ended up, uh, let's see, you rode without sleeping over 54 hours, you rode over 1,000 kilometers and had accumulated over 21,250 meters in elevation gain without sleeping.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:33Rich Roll?

  And 20, that includes 21 mountains. So 21 mountain passes that you rode your bike over.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it was a, yeah, it was a total dream. It didn't just happen, obviously. It's kind of the last fifteen years, building and building and building. And just, you know, life's led me in that direction. And this was, last August was the the accumulation of everything, everything which I'd lived for for so long. And yeah, it's just one of those things you you just don't know even what's around the corner. You don't know. I mean, I, every time I go to the mountains, for me, that's just where I feel complete peace and freedom and nature and everything's there. And that's what gives energy. And I think if you're in an environment where you can, you're gifted to be able to switch off from the world for a bit.

• 11:20Speaker 01

  You know, your mind can just be put to one side and you can just go and achieve and try and ride and do what feels good for you. And that was kind of the story behind it. And, you know, we got there after a lot of, a lot of training, a lot of years' experience and moving up to that. But yeah, ultimately, it was, let's just, let's just see if we can, we can do something and get free for a while.

• 11:43Rich Roll?

  Well, you made it through, right? So I want to find out a little bit more about, you know, how this all went down. I mean, look, a thousand miles, twenty-one mountains, that amount of elevation gain. This is like riding, I guess, is it fair to, I mean, it's sort of like riding like eight or ten legs of the Tour de France, you know, all at once without sleeping, like just back to back to back to back, right?

• 12:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think if you, if you want to put sort of, trying to put it in perspective if you can, it's, the Tour de France stage will probably be maybe four thousand meters. So

• 12:15Rich Roll?

  An elevation gain.

• 12:16Speaker 01

  In elevation.

• 12:17Rich Roll?

  Maybe like anywhere from a hundred to two hundred kilometers.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And then, I mean, it was a thousand K. So a thousand K, or just over a thousand K. But the elevation, and it's funny because I could even be doing myself a disservice on the elevation because we had a lot of rain, like seven or eight hours of torrential rain on the first night. And that stopped the barometric pressure on my Garmin working. So when I got to the end, I clocked it, oh yeah, it's twenty-one thousand meters of climbing. And then a guy on Twitter looked To the route profile and said, I think you're doing yourself down. It's more like twenty three and a half. I've looked at the thing.

• 12:54Rich Roll?

  Yeah, topo map should be able to sort that out.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  So, but I mean, yeah, it's about, I would say, I mean, the thing is, if you want to categorize it, yes, it's around the eight stages of the tour or something like this in terms of elevation game, but I've never looked at, you know, the challenge for me isn't about categorizing it. Can I do eight stages of the Tour de France? Can I do ten? It was, for me, it's an A to B. It's, we started off in Italy, Cogniglano, and the goal was to traverse the Dolomites, followed by the Italian and Eastern Alps, and then the Swiss Alps, and finish up at Mont Blanc. So it's very much an A to B journey, which isn't, I mean, you can look at Tour de France stages and that, but that's not the, it was just, can I, can I do it?

• 13:39Rich Roll?

  Can I do it, right.

• 13:39Speaker 01

  Will my mind last? Will my body last? And just the experience and every experience which I've had like that in the past has just given me so much more, more knowledge about myself, more knowledge about the world, and more knowledge about, you know, everything which I've believed in. And maybe people in the past have sort of, you know, said, hey, that's not going to work. You can't do this. It's impossible. And you say, well, how do I know unless I'm going to try? Simple equation. Let's get on the bike and try.

• 14:07Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and as lunatic as it sounds, I mean, you built up to this. I mean, you know, in the years prior, you did two other crazy challenges that were just almost, you know, barely a step down from this that led up to this. I mean, you had the one in two thousand thirteen, you basically rode all of the Alps over thirty three hours, right? That was like six hundred and seventy seven kilometers. And the year before that, you rode the Pyrenees, and that was two thousand eleven. That was like a thirty hour ride, right?

• 14:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, the sort of background which I had, you know, if I sort of cast my mind back a long time, I always had the a sort of fascination with the mind and the body. And this was when I was a real young kid and I was at school and we're in science class and the teacher was talking about a hundred mile ride and no one could get their head around it. And I was thinking, well, the reason why everyone's so screwed up on this at the moment is the fact that they're saying it's a hundred miles and they know that. Where we come from, if you go up to London and halfway back, it's about a hundred miles. So you sit on the motorway for an hour and a half and then you turn around and you come back and you go, eh, that's a long way. But yeah, but if you're going to Scotland, it's not that far, is it? So they'd already limited themselves, their perception on what some, what a far, a, a long distance was.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  And that was just, that was the nuts and bolts of the way my mind worked back then. I said, well, if you're going to put a limitation on something, then of course you're going to, straight away, the mind is going to sort of switch off and say, it can't be done, it can't be done. So, yeah, I mean, the, the build up, um, for me was, you know, many, many years of just going out and exploring. And, uh, it was kind of an interesting, uh, way to, to, to sort of build up to it through a racing sort of side of my, my cycling. Through to what gave me, as I say, the most, the real most joy was just going out there and, and riding and, and doing big rides, whether they're on my own or part of a, like a part of a group or with some friends or, or whatever.

• 15:56Speaker 01

  And just feeling that escapism and, you know, it was a sort of accumulation of all of that, uh, which led me to get to the big, the big, big stuff.

• 16:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and, and I'm interested in, you know, you know, I'm real, I'm fascinated by normal people that do extraordinary things. And, and, and I wouldn't categorize you as normal by any stretch of the imagination. But, but I think what is interesting about your story is that, you know, you had a dream as a young person of being a professional cyclist and, and sort of realized, um, as you immersed yourself in the world of cycling, that maybe you were, you know, lacking that extra gene that was going to put you in the pro peloton. And, and then having to grapple with, well, what next, right? Like, like, like if I'm not going to be that guy, if I'm not going to be, you know, racing the Tour de France, but I still love cycling, what am I going to do now?

• 16:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think that's exactly right. I, um, I had dreams and I still have dreams of, you know, it never dies. I'm just like, yeah, I'm a pro, I could do this, I'm going to race.

• 16:55Rich Roll?

  Well, you qualify as a pro cyclist and you are, you make your living as a cyclist. You are a professional cyclist.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a different, yeah, you're right. Professional racing cyclist, professional ambassador or cyclist there. You know, there, I think it's, it's kind of the modern day approach. To things now, but I I always had ambitions when I was growing up and that's what led me to originally the the whole healthy lifestyle thing because it was like, you know, you have to put the right fuel in your body and to race well, it was all I had an upbringing where Friday nights was early night. Saturday nights was prepping up, Sunday was racing and I lived like that for a long, long time. But ultimately, I got to, I got to just outside, twenty, twenty one years old.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  And I was working in engineering and it was kind of a junction in my life where I was still super young. I really didn't know anything about anything, but I'd I'd done engineering at college and I was working and and I got qualified as a mechanical design engineer and and from that point I said, hey, great. I've now I'm sort of safe. I've got something, you know, I'm young and I've got something. And I thought, could I progress the cycling side of things? I was only ever dreaming of cycling, to be honest. I just had to do this to keep everyone happy at home. It's like, yay, you know, my got some qualifications now. Great. You can go and, you know, get a proper career and and I just was never content with that. So even even at twenty one, I just went on the internet and this was this was what really got me in the bike industry. So

• 18:22Speaker 01

  we've got no, no family in the industry or anything like that. But I just was like, every time I got on my bike, I just feel like this is where I need to be and and I managed to get a job in the bike world and and that led me to to living in Europe, which was a whole life experience straight away.

• 18:36Rich Roll?

  Right. So so you you graduate from college, university.

• 18:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:40Rich Roll?

  Qualifications, meaning you got your degree, right?

• 18:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:42Rich Roll?

  Mechanical engineer and you go to work in the aerospace industry, right?

• 18:45Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 18:46Rich Roll?

  Aerospace. And so you're just, you're being a good young man.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:49Rich Roll?

  Doing the proper, you know, responsible thing by pursuing this, you know, very secure career track where you could have very well stayed. And you're still trying to race, right? Like you're you're at night, you're training and you're still like, I don't know, what are you doing at that?

• 19:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, hundred percent. I mean, life revolved around racing and cycling and I would have Mondays recovery day at work. It was like, make sure I sit down a lot because it's a hard race Sunday and and yeah, I mean, trying to plan in the training and it was just amazing. I just.

• 19:18Rich Roll?

  But are people saying? Come on, man. Like, when are you gonna give that up? Like, you're, you know, let's, let's invest a little more in aerospace.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  There was, I mean, I saw at British Aerospace, I saw guys who had been engineers for forty years and they'd done the apprenticeship and they'd, and they were sixty, sixty-five years old and then they were gonna retire and I just thought, no way. It's just, it just, for me, I mean, it's, you know, it's a, you know, it's admirable to, to put the time in like that and, but I just, it just didn't resonate with me like that. I just had to, I just had to try and bring forward what I felt. I'd invested a lot of time in cycling, but even at that age, it was, it was still in its infancy because you're only twenty, twenty-one years old. There's only so much time you can put into it, but it was just the whole process of like, this is, this is where I feel safest, sort of thing. So, but then you have the, the peer pressure, really, because you get to that age

• 20:08Speaker 01

  and it's all about, you know, people at college, university, drinking starts and parties and you have to fit in. And really, I, I was lucky in some respect, some aspect, because, you know, my parents were so supportive at that age. All they wanted to do was make sure that if we, if we wanted to do something, they would, they wouldn't, they wouldn't push us, but they would just say, hey, yeah, you know what? We'll support, we'll take you to races, we'll do whatever it takes. And, you know, I've, you know, I've got a lot to, to thank for, for Mum and Dad for just running us around the country and keeping us on the right track. And, but then when I moved abroad, started working for an American bike company back in two thousand and that was where, you know, got in the bike industry, it suddenly was like, wow, this is a dream come true.

• 20:50Rich Roll?

  Right, so, so the first kind of big risk that you take is you say sayonara to British Aerospace, right? Like, that's a good job, right?

• 20:59Speaker 01

  That's an amazing, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 21:00Rich Roll?

  And for you to say, I'm gonna go, I mean, first of all, how do you even get a job at a bike company? But we'll get there.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:06Rich Roll?

  And then to, and then to say, well, I'm gonna leave where I grew up and I'm gonna go to a, a foreign country where they don't even speak the language on this flyer because I have this dream. I mean, that's, you know, that's a, that's a big step for anybody, let alone a young person, to make. So, that's the first kind of foray into, you know, sort of taking a leap of faith, I suppose, that, that of moving in the direction of, of living your passion.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I was, I was actually lucky in some respect because I was working in engineering. So the Cannondale team, they, they, they sort of influenced me a lot. There was a lot of young riders. They were, seemed to be dominating the world at the time and I was inspired by them. And then the brand itself was super innovative. It was high performing. So from an engineering, sort of mechanical point of view, it ticked the box. From the team point of view, it ticked the box. So that I was, I was really inspired by that whole setup. So first of all, it was like, let's get on the internet and find out a bit more about this company and how I can get in there. But of course, it's like, you can't just dream up a job and suddenly, hey guys, look, I'd like to work for you. It just doesn't work like that. So, and I actually found.

• 22:12Rich Roll?

  How'd you get this job?

• 22:13Speaker 01

  Well, okay, so I, I just went on the, I literally just went on their website and looked through all the jobs and found a job based in their central location in, in Switzerland, in Basel. And it was for a marketing coordinator and I'd just done a bunch of engineering, so I had no real qualifications.

• 22:31Rich Roll?

  Right, that, that doesn't involve you designing bicycles.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  No, that's the whole point. I mean, I thought maybe if I was going in as a design engineer or something from the tech side. But, I mean, I've always been, I've always, I guess, had a, a sort of vision for looking a little bit past the normality, so to speak. And, I mean, this is what I wanted. So I said, hey, you know, maybe if I just apply and I looked at what they needed and I thought, well, okay. I mean, I've got great bike knowledge. I know, you know, about their riders and about their team. I'm passionate about what, what they stand for. And I'm young, so, you know, they can teach me anything. I'm like a sponge. I'll just work hard and soak it up. But you've got to get in there. You've got to get in front of the people. So I thought, well, yeah, this was, it's funny, I was talking to an old colleague just a couple of months ago

• 23:20Speaker 01

  and he remembered the CV that I sent in 15 years later. And I thought, well, maybe I did something right there. But I just thought, well, I've got no, no marketing qualifications and how am I going to get in front of this global company and, and make a mark at, at 21 years old? So I put together a, like an interactive CV back in the day of CD-ROMs and.

• 23:38Rich Roll?

  Yeah, this is not, yeah, I mean, today, maybe. That would be something that they're maybe more used to seeing, but back in 2000, not so much.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  No, I mean, I just thought, well, black and white, I'm going to be the same as every other guy. So let's give him something and, you know, boost it up with a bit of red hot Chili Peppers music when it when they when they shove it in the machine and they're, you know, no one likes, you know, as soon as soon as you put something in your computer, music comes on. But hey, at least they'll remember me and then they'll be, oh, it was the guy who gave us a CD with a bunch of information on and they really liked it. They were like, they're a super innovative, innovative company. So I got a phone call saying, you'd better come on out and we'll just have a chat. And it went out for a chat and that must have been in the, I think, June, around June 2000. And by August, I was packing my bags and moving out of home and trying to look for an apartment on my own in Basel,

• 24:26Speaker 01

  which was, you know, a real trajectory, fast trajectory to, I guess, a life lesson in, you know, come on, Mike, you gotta, you gotta fend for yourself now.

• 24:34Rich Roll?

  Right, right. But this is still like, let's make no mistakes. This is not you, you know, hanging out with Peter Sagan.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  No, no, no.

• 24:41Rich Roll?

  You're taking, you're moving in the right direction, but you're, this is not a job that involves you riding a bike at all.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  No, this is pure marketing. Yeah, marketing for the brand. And I mean, a lot of event work. So we were trying to promote the brand through events and doing demos and things like this. But the whole nuts and bolts of the job really was with the press. So it was organizing product reviews and tests and being the front man for the brand for, for that market. Which was, as I say, it was, it was a dream for me. I was suddenly in the bike world, but I would, I would go to a team camp and I would be like, I really want to be a pro cyclist still. I get the opportunity once or twice a year to hang out at team camp and I just couldn't let the dream die. I was just like, I just want to be doing what those guys are doing.

• 25:25Rich Roll?

  Right. It's kind of a, it's kind of a shadow artist thing, right? Because you're in the world, but you're not, you want to be one of the guys, but you're not really the guy. You're, you're the guy around the guys.

• 25:34Speaker 01

  In fact, you're nowhere near one of the guys. You're like, who is this guy? That's who you are.

• 25:41Rich Roll?

  That's pretty funny. So how do you go from like, who is this guy to being like, oh, that guy?

• 25:46Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, crikey, how did I do that? Okay, let's think back. I, no, I mean, I was hanging out at team camp a couple of times. And I honestly-

• 25:56Rich Roll?

  When you would go to these team camps, are you starting the filming part now?

• 26:00Speaker 01

  No.

• 26:00Rich Roll?

  Or that comes later?

• 26:01Speaker 01

  This is, this is way, way, way before. So what we would do at team camp is we would launch a product. So for example, we'd have a new race bike.

• 26:09Rich Roll?

  New bike, right.

• 26:09Speaker 01

  And then we'd invite all the press along. And, you know, it was actually a really big learning curve. I remember at the time, the, the head of marketing, they won on a sabbatical, which was great for me because I got to step up big time. And back in 2001, I think it was 2001, 2002, they launched a brand new race bike. And I'd been, I'd, at that point, I had the, I had been in the marketing office the longest, so I was 22. So it was like, hey, Mike, you're going to organize our global product launch for, you know, for Australia, for Japan, for America. We're going to get the Europeans over. So you've just got to get on and coordinate the lot. And it was like, wow, okay, right, I'm, I'm going to make a, make a difference here. So pulling in all the media and all the press and putting the, the presentations together and, and planning out the rides

• 26:54Speaker 01

  and all the team activities was, it was a massive step up for, for a kid, basically. But it was a dream. It was like, this is, this is awesome. But I was still very much, you know, the team are on their table for dinner and we're on our table for dinner. And there was a big divide there because it was an Italian team as well. So-

• 27:10Rich Roll?

  Right, right.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  You know, the culture's different. Everything's different. So-

• 27:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's like, it's like a scene out of Breaking Away, where they're spitting on the American.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, you've got it. You've hit the nail on the head. And you kind of, you never feel, you are working, you're part of the same team, you're same brand, same company, but-

• 27:26Rich Roll?

  There's a pecking order.

• 27:27Speaker 01

  It's a different department, you know, and you're in that department. And these guys are there, they're the pros in, in, in their department. So-

• 27:34Rich Roll?

  Right. But you're moving up the ladder here at Canada. So, so when does it, when does the, the filmmaker in you start to come out? Like, where does this sort of transition into you kind of making an indelible mark that is uniquely you?

• 27:46Speaker 01

  Well, what is around two thousand and four, two thousand and five. And really what happened there was Cannondale started playing around with motorcycles. And with that, I got an opportunity to do marketing for the moto side of the business. And I just, you know, really, the moto side died. And I can say now, I didn't care one iota for the moto side. I was about the push bike. And because they invested so much money in the moto side, the company went into bankruptcy. So Chapter eleven bankruptcy. And then I was a marketing guy and they put everything on freeze. The budgets were on freeze and everything like this. So they said, right, Mike, you've got no budget now. You need to market our product, but you can't advertise, you can't.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  And obviously, when you advertise, you have a better relationship with the media because you scratch their back. They scratch yours and it's not, you know, it just keeps the industry going. That's kind of the way the world works. But so I sort of sat down and really was like, well, if I've got no budget and, you know, what's my job? What am I doing here? I can't, I can't do anything. So again, I looked and went, well, how can we bring value to the brand? How can we bring value to people reading magazines? This was at the time, it was more print media. And I sort of scratched my head and said, well, okay, well, how about I go to the UK and pitch an idea to a big magazine and say, let's go and ride, say, ten big climbs in the UK and make a feature on it and we'll bring some value to your readers and we'll give you some exclusive free content.

• 29:16Speaker 01

  And, you know, if you like it, that's cool. And, you know, that was, that was really the, that was the first time I thought. Up until that point, you know, you're being creative, you're trying to do a good job. But then my back was against the wall because it was like resources were taken away. So I was like, well, I want to do a better job. I want to get the brand out there. I want to make sure that we're still in front of every, every person who reads a magazine.

• 29:38Rich Roll?

  It's interesting how the lack of resources then forged the quantum leap forward. Like the, you know, all the creativity came out of, you know, a lack rather than a surplus.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I love the, I love trying to take a situation and make something of it. You know, whether you're on the bike and you're doing 50 hours and thinking this can't be done and going, well, hang in a minute, let's just break it down, let's just put the pieces of the puzzle and see if we can arrange them and make a nice shape out of it and go like, this actually makes sense now. So I really, really just sat down and said, okay, look, if I can get some good content which is, is good for the reader, then the magazine's gonna like it and it's kind of like going full circle. And we, we ended up doing a really nice feature in a big magazine in the UK and, and from that, they, they did a follow-up and then we did a reader, you know, toughest climb and we asked the readers what they wanted. So it was really

• 30:32Speaker 01

  interactive and that's, that's really, I mean, it was all print back then, really.

• 30:37Rich Roll?

  So the idea was you'd go out and ride these climbs, you'd document it, you'd film it, it would be photographed, you're riding a Cannondale bike, this is getting the brand in the media without having to do an ad buy.

• 30:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and just trying to make it offer some actual content that people want to read. I mean, ads, ads serve a purpose, but at the end of the day, you know, you can skip over the ad because it's all, you know, we're great, we're great, we're great. And that's, that's pretty much what they say and then.

• 31:01Rich Roll?

  No, we're great.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  No, we're better. So I just wanted to say, hey, we're all great, but like, you know, we're gonna go off in this direction and we're gonna try and if you want to ride these climbs, then here's how to do it. We'll do a breakdown of it.

• 31:12Rich Roll?

  And you, had you, had you been racing throughout? I mean, I assumed you continued to train, but like, where were you in the?

• 31:18Speaker 01

  But when I was in, when I was in Europe, I, I did a bit of mountain bike racing and, and continued, actually, there's a really big cyclo sportive scene out in Europe and it's very individual and it's all about, it's kind of more experience based. So you get the front runners and I, I was, I did quite a big sportive series 2004 and it got pretty high up and won a couple of races, which I thought was cool. But then eventually I ended up moving back in 2005. So I sort of, I was racing, but most of the time I was, I was taking myself out and just doing these crazy big rides and seeing how far I could

• 31:59Speaker 01

  go on as little food and drink as I could because it was just extreme and there were these water stops. I remember water stops like 20, 30, 40 miles apart and could I make it to the water stop without, you know, filling up beforehand and just setting myself personal challenges, which I, I just always excited me.

• 32:16Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right. So, alright, so you're embarking on this idea of documenting these climbs and getting these pieces out into the media. And so suddenly, you're the guy on the bike who's in the magazine.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:29Rich Roll?

  But this is working for the brand, right? So this starts to slowly expand and this kind of creates additional opportunities for you to start working with the guys on the pro team, right?

• 32:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, eventually, what happened was, actually, a chap called Marcus Newitt, which I met, he's a German guy, and the video side came in. He approached Cannondale through a friend and said, "Look, I actually want to turn some of the big mountains and courses." And I was doing a lot of sport eat, so I was sort of racing to a point in Europe on the sort of mass participation side of things. And he said, "Hey, I tell you what, I'd love to make videos." He actually left, he'd be a great guy to have on the podcast. He left Procter & Gamble, he was done with the rat race, and he said, "I'm gonna buy a video camera and I want to go and film cyclists." So he contacted Cannondale and we hooked

• 33:20Speaker 01

  up. And there was a project in 2000, end of 2006, where he was like, "Hey, I want to go and film..." Itab de Tour is one stage of the Tour de France, which amateur riders get to do each year. And he said, "Hey, I want to go and film this stage. Do you want to be the rider and presenter?" And I was like, "Yes, absolutely. This is exactly what I want to try and achieve." We linked up and within 10 minutes, it was like I'd known him for 10 years. It was such an easy relationship. He had exactly the same ethos as me, just wanted to try and get out there and do something different and try and help people. And we've worked together for sort of seven or eight years or whatever since. And that was kind of like where the video stuff started coming in. We started doing our own video projects. This was actually more behind the scenes. I was still working full-time with Cannondale,

• 34:04Speaker 01

  but then I'd take some holiday or we'd take a couple of days off and we'd go and do these other projects. And really, it was, that was the evolution that led to eventually when I, when I decided, actually, I need to really go in my own direction from Cannondale, from being an employee to, "Hey, I'm gonna start my own business." I already had some video skills. I already had the, you know, the numbers behind, "Hey, we can do this." And Cannondale then went full circle and said, "Okay, look, we understand what you want to try and achieve from a personal point of view, but..." We actually need a little bit of a box ticked over in this direction. And do you want to make our videos for the pro team now, which was, which we started doing in 2012. So we fast-tracked a little bit, but so it was a very, it was a gradual.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  We did sort of six years in the background of our own video work, um, just because that was in us. And we wanted to try and explore and make these, these, uh, these DVDs and videos and films, which, which could help riders who were going to take on the big challenges for themselves. Of course, they couldn't race the Tour de France, but they could do a, a big event in Italy or Spain or France. So we wanted to be the guys who would say, okay, if you're going to go and try that, it's a life experience. Let's try and help you. Let's try and tell you where the hard sections are or the easy sections or the feed zones. And, and so it gave us that five, six years worth of, um, of knowledge and experience. And I never had, I've never, never envisaged, uh, working with the pro guys, making videos with Peter Sagan

• 35:29Speaker 01

  or, you know, Morena Mosa or any of the Cannondale guys. I just, that was never on my radar. And suddenly it was like, you're now a video guy. Okay.

• 35:37Rich Roll?

  Right. Now you're the video guy. Well, it's interesting, those, those La Top, you know, kind of all the coverage that you got from that. I mean, you, you go through the cycling magazines and there's you and you're like pages and pages of you. Here's how you do this climb. Here's how you do, here's how you approach this, like from a very kind of, you know, professorial, like educational and inspirational, you know, tutorial for all of these cyclists across Europe and the world who want to descend on France in the summertime and, and grab their piece of this experience for themselves.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, it's, when I look back, it's, um, it's humbling really to, to think that just, just a dream can turn into something. Because you just, you just want to, I mean, I was always just inspired just to go and ride and be like, look, if I'm in the mountains, I feel this is just a really good place. You see so much and to get from the, from the valley to the top of a mountain is a huge achievement. And to, I felt so fulfilled every time I would do it, whether it was a, a good day or I was feeling bad or whether the weather was good or bad or whatever, you, you still have, everyone has a story. And, you know, our, our whole sort of ethos and passion was just to try and build something that could. Tap into the great outdoors again and make life simple for people and you know

• 36:48Speaker 01

  there's so much content available nowadays but you just want to have a good resource where you can go yeah we trust them you know they're going to look after us and and that's really the that's what we're always going to live by that's what we're we're going to do but you know it is amazing just to think over the years you know the the pages in the magazine and the projects we've worked on and just the opportunities which have evolved which have been good just just by purely getting out there and having the desire you know it wasn't someone saying actually if you if you do this then that might happen and then that'll lead to this no we just got on and said this is really really what's in me this is just what it's all about.

• 37:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean when I look at your path I see you know a lot of faith I see a huge work ethic I see a tremendous amount of passion and I see trust I mean just to kind of back it up you know you could have stayed at Cannondale and had an amazing job that was really well within the realm of you know what you're passionate about and I think most people probably would have held on to that job and continued to kind of ascend through the ranks there and you reached a point where you said no it's time for the next evolution it's time for me to kind of take a step you know into the unknown and and and trust and have faith again I mean what was that you know thought process and what motivated you to then you know take a leap again?

• 38:07Speaker 01

  Well you know yeah you are right I absolutely from the outside the whole Cannondale world it was was absolutely a dream come true from a very early age but I'd worked I'd worked with those guys for as an employee for 12 years and the whole evolution really came from obviously the background which I'd had but you know 12 years down the line it was like I just didn't feel that this was everything which I could have in my life like not just for me but just like it's about

• 38:46Speaker 01

  Being able to like look back and say, you know what, I tried to get the most out of myself for my own reasons, but also for what I believe I can achieve as an individual to bring something which is bigger than just me. So it was a case of sort of saying, you know, I can, I can work for this, this company. I can work and do everything. And yeah, we're stable. We're enjoying it. We've got a, you know, good, um, yeah, yeah, just good salary and, and good benefits and everything. But it was like, yeah, but that's not what life is. It's not, I need to do what's, what I feel is really within me as an individual. And that was to, to make a leap. And, and at the same time, you know, the goal which I had, the dream which I had was to build something which, you know, I was a hundred

• 39:30Speaker 01

  percent passionate about, a hundred percent had great faith in that, uh, you know, I could use my, my skills for the last 10 or 15 years, which I'd developed to, to try and better the world of cycling in, in some respect. And, uh, but that also meant that you, I couldn't do it on my own. So I had to, had to drag my girlfriend out of her job for, she'd been with a big corporate organization for over a decade. Um, and you know, we sat down and said, hey, you know, looking at what we've done, is this, could we make a business of this? Um, I had a couple of sort of epiphany moments really, which inspired me just to say, you know, it's now or never. I've just got to do it now or never, or I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna get more frustrated and not being able to use my potential as a, an individual to, uh, to do what I think I can do.

• 40:15Rich Roll?

  So what was it that was lacking in the Cannondale job? I mean, when you say you weren't, you weren't able to, you know, realize your potential, what about, you know, what did you feel, you know, your potential was driving you towards that was not available to you in that job?

• 40:28Speaker 01

  I think with, I think it was just, a lot of it was, um, I'd been doing a similar job for a long time. And, you know, I knew it. I was, I had it absolutely dialed year on year. I knew, uh, all the guys in the industry, the media guys. Um, I knew where I'd be almost every, every week of the year. I knew what trade shows were coming. Um, and some of my ideas were, um, were important to me, but in terms of the whole global Picture they they basically a lot of the time they would have their own that we're launching a new product or we've got we're going in a different direction on something else so It was very, very difficult because ultimately I'm paid to do what they tell me. You know, hey, get on, do that. Yep, I'll get on and do it. Yep, it's done.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  You know, that was my job and I was sort of saying, well, I can I can actually bring more value to a business, to a company, to a brand. Um, if you just let me off the the lead a bit. Um, and I can fulfill what I think I I'm actually capable of. Um, so it was probably, you know, an answer to your question. It was it was a time thing. Um, and really you just can't, I mean, I when I was a kid, I just thought I'm never going to work for a company more than two years because I'm just going to be bored of it. And I just need to evolve and experience more. And then, you know, I I worked for British Aerospace for a couple of years. Uh, and then when I got the job with Cannondale, I thought, well, I'm probably going to be here for life. And then 12 years down the line, I'm like, uh, because they they gave me so much experience. I I owe them everything, really, because they gave me so much great experience.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  But then I could use that experience and go, hey, if we do this a little bit differently, we can do more, we can help more, we can, you know, involve. Uh, the brand in other areas. It's not just racing with there's a lot of cyclists out there. How can we touch them? How can we reach them? How can we talk to them? So, you know, it was just a, yeah, I just felt there's no way that you could do that. Working for a brand, you have to evolve and try and work for yourself. Because there's a lot of other brands and companies and businesses out there like we've tried to build something where we tap into a lot of different brand resources. And, um, you know, we represent a lot of different companies. Um, and if you you can't, you can't do that if you're tied to one brand. So you have to be independent.

• 42:33Rich Roll?

  Right. So before you left Cannondale, did you line up, you know, what your gigs were going to be? Or did you just cut the cord and and try to figure it out?

• 42:43Speaker 01

  No, it was it was a, I'm I'm not as spontaneous as that. I'm I'm a bit more.

• 42:48Rich Roll?

  You're a mechanical engineer, so you're you're plotting this whole thing out.

• 42:51Speaker 01

  I I haven't got, I'm not like, hey, let's just go and leave everything. I mean, Deb, um, my girlfriend was, she was working with Mercedes for over a decade. She was, you know, corporate life. She had, you know, all the trimmings which you'd want from, you know, working 50, 60 hours a week for for a decade and. You know, she she got to a level where we couldn't, you know, we couldn't just. Down tools and just say, hey, we're just gonna give this a go and see what happens. Because there was too much riding on it. I mean, there's a lot you can, you know, absolutely applaud. People just say, hey, I've got a dream, I'm gonna make it work. But we'd built so much experience uh from one side that we knew, I knew in my, in my heart, in my, my mind that I could use this if I could harness it properly.

• 43:33Speaker 01

  Um, but the great thing is we'd, um, or I'd been personally sort of working with a lot of companies. Um, say for example, if we were launching a product, uh, the guys at Mavic, a French brand. Um, they realize, hey, you're on, you can get into magazines a lot, you know, you do a lot of stuff outside. So do you wanna use our wheels or our shoes or so on and so forth? So I'd built, um, some really strong brand relationships over the last five or six, seven years. Um, and then I remember I went to a big trade show, September two thousand and eleven. Um, after the Pyrenean ride, uh, and that was the moment where I, after that ride was just like absolutely. I, you know, I can't, I can't just do what I've been doing for the last sort of decade.

• 44:18Speaker 01

  Um, and I went and scouted around and said to a lot of brands, all my, my sort of, um, product sponsors, hey, you know, I've got this dream. I've got this vision. If, if I can, if I, if I leave the, the mothership of Canada, so to speak, and, and start my own thing.

• 44:31Rich Roll?

  Are you gonna catch my fall?

• 44:33Speaker 01

  Are you gonna be part of this or whatever? And I could gauge it a bit. So, you know, it was, it was a, it took another probably eight, nine months. From, uh, what was that, September two thousand and eleven to finally say, hey, we're gonna, we're gonna set the business up and go for it and run with it. And after we'd done the numbers and.

• 44:49Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right. I mean, I think what I'm getting at, what I'm, what I'm trying to, what I'm driving towards is. An outsider can go online and go to coalcollective.com or go to your website or go to YouTube, watch your videos or read these magazine articles where basically it would appear, the outside observer, that you spend your free time riding up the Alps and, and appearing in magazines, wearing really nice cycling gear and riding a really nice bike and seemingly, uh, well-fed somehow, right? And like, how do I have this? How come, how come this guy has this life? How does he have this life? Like, it looks really cool.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  It is.

• 45:28Rich Roll?

  And you've created this amazing, you know, sort of personalized situation, uh, where you're able to make a living in a very creative and athletic way. Like, I, I always look at the world like. I've said this before on the podcast, but to me, like, growing up, there were artists and there were athletes, but never the twain do these two meet, right? You know what I mean? Like, there's the guy who's in the AV club, or he likes to draw, and then there's the guy on the basketball team, but those guys don't hang out, right? And what I love about you and your story and what you do is you've melded these two worlds. You're incredibly successful athlete, prolific athlete. You're also incredibly creative, and you're an artist in what you do.

• 46:11Rich Roll?

  And that's a really cool thing, and it's a rare thing. And so, when I look at that, I'm like, I can see somebody saying, "I want that life. How do I do that?" And why I wanted to kind of unpack your whole, you know, kind of, origin story, for lack of a better word, is that, you know, this didn't happen overnight. You were an engineer at British Aerospace, and then you worked for Cannondale for 12 years. And then you made sure that you had everything lined up before you made this leap. So, this is, you know, this was a long road. This is your road to Mont Blanc in your career, right? Like, this is your 21 mountain pass of your career to get to this unique kind of situation.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, yeah, thanks for the compliments. I mean, it's good that it's recognized, I suppose, because, as you say, to the outside world, I mean, I have a lot of people, and they will say, "You live the dream life." And I say, "Absolutely. You know, Facebook is the dream life. You see what I do on Facebook and, you know, on Twitter? And, of course, I live the dream life. You don't see it when I'm at home and Deb's peeling me off of the floor, because I'm like, I can't, this is just getting too much, because we're juggling all the time, we're plate spinning. And you've got, you know, work which we do with Cannondale, or we do with Mavik, or another brand, but it's a complete lifestyle since I was, I would say, you know, when I was racing as a schoolboy, that was where the passion started, and then when I started with Cannondale.

• 47:30Speaker 01

  And, you know, I never, I never looked at how many hours I was working, because I was just like, I just want, this is what, if I work super, super hard, if I just put all of my energy, which is in me as a person, as a, into what I believe in, this is 100% what I believe in, then, of course, there's no failure in that. Because this is what I believe in. So and that was the course I took really with my whole life. Just to, yeah, just to do what I really was in my, my, uh, my inner being to, to try and bring to life. And that was, I mean, I, I wouldn't even like to guess how many hours that is because it's, it's weekends. It's after work. It's everything. Uh, but to try and put all the pieces together. I mean, it's not a simple thing.

• 48:14Speaker 01

  It looks like a simple thing, like, look, we've got a, we've now got a product, for example, uh, with the collective. Um, this is an education platform which we've launched just late last year. And it was really, uh, looking at everything we'd, we'd done from a video perspective. And I felt very, um, inspired when I'm in the mountains. So I say, hey, let's try and bring these mountains to life. And the biggest mountains in the world and, and try and help people get to the summit of them. But that project, even so, I know, I know I can do a good job, but the brands don't. The brands can go, yeah, but ah, this isn't top of our project list and you want, you want an investment in this? And I mean, to get, we, we're working with over 10 brands on the project, but every brand has to have a different meeting and they ask different questions.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  And, and it's like the, we've, we've got, uh, yeah, the kickbacks and the, the, the sort of fundraising, which tries to go with just getting to a stable level where you can try and achieve something that you believe in. And it's so much, so much time and effort and energy and you just, sometimes you just say, hey, you know what? I'm better off, let's just go back to work because it's so much easier just to, just to do the, do the norm.

• 49:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I think it, it, it all looks very sexy, like, oh, you run your own business and you make these cool. The Cole Collective for the listener who, because we haven't talked about it yet. The Cole Collective is your educational video platform for taking people through all of these mountains. Like how, how do you climb these mountains on a bike? What, how, you know, how do I approach this? What am I going to see? And they're beautifully done and the level of detail is exquisite. Uh, and so, uh, it's easy to look at that and go, well, that's a great life. But yeah, you, you have to make this happen. You got to figure out how it's going to get paid for, how you're going to make a living doing it. And you're living and breathing this all the time. And anybody who, you know, rides a thousand miles across the Alps and spends their time making videos of this quality.

• 49:59Rich Roll?

  Level is somebody who's not afraid of hard work, right? And I think that's what people don't see. And we're in a culture right now of immediacy and entitlement and the kind of what you hear about the millennial generation. We talked a little bit about this on the bike the other day, you know, and I've spoken about this before, this sort of hack culture, like, how do I get, how do I get 80% of the results for 20% of the work? And that's not the path.

• 50:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, my, my sort of biggest takeaway when it comes to the whole life hack thing is, uh, my life hack is just go the long haul. And, uh, because what I realized with, um, with the Pyrenean ride, which I did in 2011, sort of just backtracking a little bit, I mean, I'd worked so hard to get to that point. And there's, there's reasons why I really just felt at that moment in my life that I had to go and do, that was my first big challenge where I just went completely into the unknown. It wasn't a race, it wasn't an event, you know, there was no one at the side of the road like cheering you on, there was no one at the end, there was nothing, there was me, my girlfriend and two friends just supporting in a, in a vehicle. And I say, hey, I just want to go and ride from the Atlantic to the Mediterranean, straight across the Pyrenees.

• 51:04Speaker 01

  And I, because, because I just, I just had to do it at that moment in my life, there was something so strong inside me that made me want to do that. Um, and, you know, that was sort of the, the first part of like how we got onto the trajectory of the whole big challenges. And the thing is, it's like I got to the end of that ride and so many things made sense. And I, but I'd probably put in 10 years of work to get to that. And then suddenly, within 30 hours, I was on the bike and I got to the end of that and I said to myself, that 10 years makes sense now, I can see the future. If I hadn't put the 10 years worth of hard work in, I wouldn't have seen the future. I wouldn't have seen like, I can do this, I've got the, the confidence, I'm, I'm very

• 51:47Speaker 01

  much like I need to, maybe it's the engineering part of my brain, but I need to put the black and white down on paper. I cannot, I mean, I, when I was racing as a schoolboy and that, I knew I had to do, even from a, from a young age, I had to do the training, I couldn't wing it, I couldn't blag it. And when you, uh, get up to a thousand K across the, the Alps, I mean, there's no way you can blag that. I had to do the hard training, the hard training. Um, and that.

• 52:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you can't, you can't cram for that and you can't fake it.

• 52:16Speaker 01

  Exactly, but at the same time, I don't, I don't actually, my personality is I don't wanna fake it, because that is what makes it genuine for me, it gives me the confidence. I know that if I put the hours in on the bike or in the, into the business, then I should be able to do this. And, you know, as soon as you take that element of, let's try and do the, the, the hack and get you there on a quicker, I think the, the, the whole life hack thing is, is, everyone lives in a super busy world now, you know, it's getting more and more chaotic. Um, so quite rightly, people are trying to pack more into their busy lives, but just taking one step back from that, and sort of saying, what is it in you that makes you happy? Okay. And for me, I found that was the bike. And, and from that

• 52:58Speaker 01

  point is like, well, why do I wanna hack that? I wanna spend more time, I wanna do it the, the right way. And of course, you can hack to a certain point, but are you gonna be revving the engine too much? And then are you gonna have a blowout? And, you know, or do you wanna take it nice and steady and build and build and build and build? And, I mean, I'm absolutely astounded at to get from, you know, the passion of riding a bike to then making a career from it, for one, not as a racing cyclist, uh, and then to these crazy challenges, which everyone says you're insane, you're never gonna make it, to actually achieving it and going like, wow, I actually did that. It's still, it's really surreal, but it's just been a slow, steady process of buildup and put the work in and put the hours in.

• 53:38Rich Roll?

  Right. Yeah, I like what you had to say about, about life hacking. I mean, and I think that my message on this subject gets confused or misinterpreted at times, in that, uh, I'm not against trying to find efficiencies in your life. And I agree, we're, we're inundated with so much stimuli and our lives are becoming crammed with more and more obligations and duties. And, and we just get spread so thin, right? So how do we manage that? And I think that, to the extent that life hacks are about short cutting or finding efficiencies in, in sort of the

• 54:10Rich Roll?

  I don't want to say non-essentials, but like not the core aspects of who you are and what you're trying to pursue in your life, so that you have additional time to more fully invest yourself in the one thing that it that you are most passionate about. So in your, you know, to use your example in your cycling or in your filmmaking, right? Like to avail yourself more, more, uh, more time, more, uh, you know, brain, uh, brain, you know, output to go into that one thing that you're most passionate in. So you can be more invested, more devoted to that one thing.

• 54:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. I mean, there is, there is an element of, okay, look, if we hack this side of life, then we have more time elsewhere, which is fair enough. Um, but, um, you know, my, my overall, my, my personality ever, ever since I was a kid, as I say, I remember when I was at school and actually college and, you know, I'd sit in a lecture class and not have a clue what the lecturer, the, the, the teacher was saying. And you just think, wow, on earth am I going to get through this exam and like, it just doesn't make sense. And, and then I'd just go, go back home and this is just the way I am. And I'd just sit and I'd read the book until I understood and, and it would take hours and hours and hours. And I could say, hey, I could, I could hack it and I could do, I could do a quarter of

• 55:24Speaker 01

  the, the work and I could still pass, but I would just, I wanted to pass well. I wanted to get a good grade. I wanted to, so I, but the great thing was.

• 55:31Rich Roll?

  You're a good boy.

• 55:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it was more, it was like I could, if, as long as I understood the theory behind it and all, the hardest moment was trying to understand the theory. And then the theory of whatever it was I was working on and what's the theory of why we're all here? Hey, the theory of why we're here is like, let's try and do as best we can with what we feel is, is, is our, our calling, so to speak. Um, and that's, I'm never going to be able to hack that because I'm going to just be cheating myself. And so at the end of the day, um, that's how I feel about it.

• 56:01Rich Roll?

  Right. Interesting. Uh, the other thing that I like about your story and, and your leap kind of away from Cannondale and into doing your own thing is that there's an aspect of, of giving back, of service in that, like, how can I, how can I help people? How can I inspire other people to, you know, embrace this thing that I love so much? Like, how can I share this better?

• 56:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that's absolutely for me, that's the number one objective. Because I think the outside world, what I enjoy, what I experience on the bike, the moments I've had with friends, on my own, with family, everything, you know, it just, it makes, it puts everything in perspective for me. I can go out and be completely muddled and feel that things aren't going in the right direction. I've got no creativity, I just feel completely, you know, everything's on top of me and the world is turning black. And as soon as I go out and then see some of the good, some of the good times and just ride and get that energy out

• 57:02Speaker 01

  and start feeling good again. And that was, every single time I go into the mountains, you go like, it's just a complete untapped world that, you know, if I, I think if I feel like that, I'm thinking, crikey, if I can make other people have a little element of that and believe that they can do something like, I'm not saying go and ride 21 mountains, that's absolutely ridiculous, anyone who wants to go and do that, because it's just, you've got to build up to it, whatever, but it's, but if you, if you want to just go and ride one or if you want to even just start riding a bike in general, just to feel the fresh air and what it can do for your health and wellbeing, then that's what we want to try and do. And actually, what was interesting is with the whole project which we're doing now is just trying to involve all of the brands and everything. So it's more, we've got a great, a great collection of companies

• 57:45Speaker 01

  who represent all different areas, whether it's nutrition or, or training camps or holidays or product. And I wanted to try and bring all this together so, you know, we can manage it, but you can go to one resource and try and go, hey, these are the guys that are going to help. If you're into that side of the sport, if you're into cycling, I can ask a question on nutrition. Or I can say, hey, what did you actually eat when you rode across the mountains? Like, you know, this is fascinating, tell me. And, you know, we've got all the, all the, all the pieces of the puzzle in just about an order to really offer what we hope is a valuable resource. And it sort of saves people, maybe, maybe we're helping people hack their life so they don't have to go all over the internet looking for the answer and they can come to one resource. So, you know, life hacks are good.

• 58:32Rich Roll?

  So what is it about cycling that's so alluring you? I mean, what is it that you that you get out of it? I mean, explain this relationship to me.

• 58:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, OK, let's just go back to when I think about my first moments on the bike. And straight away, it was with running, you can get so far. And, you know, swimming is another thing. You don't see much when you're swimming. So and then, I mean, I swam, I played loads of soccer, football when I was at school. And and that was, I mean, yeah, that was a great childhood upbringing. And, you know, I loved kicking the ball around at school. But but it was that was the team aspect. And it was my older brother who said, hey, he got a bike. And he said, hey, you want to do a bit of cyclocross racing? And I said, well, what's this about? And and it was the first moment that I felt that everything I put in was was giving me the result.

• 59:23Speaker 01

  So if I didn't put the work in, hey, I couldn't blame someone. I couldn't point the finger at anyone. And it was just the pure escapism and freedom. You could go so far on the bike. You know, I could go into three different counties from where I lived in one day and ride 100 miles when I was, I mean, I remember there was, I was always the youngest of our groups.

• 59:43Rich Roll?

  You grew up like an hour outside of London.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, about an hour, just on the edge of, on the South Coast. But just on the edge of the New Forest. And we've got a few rolling hills, but it's flat as anything, really, compared to what I, where I really like to go.

• 59:55Rich Roll?

  Well, everywhere is flat compared to where you'd like to ride your bike.

• 59:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:00:00Rich Roll?

  The Santa Monica Mountains are flat compared to what you would.

• 1:00:02Speaker 01

  They're pretty rolling, those little bad boys. But it just came to, it was just the the essence of freedom which I had. And just exploring, I mean, I had some of my fondest memories when I was abroad, just literally just writing down village names on the top tube of my bike. And back then, life was simple. It's like we didn't have tools and power meters and all these fancy gizmos. And it's actually funny, really, it reminds me, I had all that equipment. I mean, I've got a user Garmin now because just tracks how far you've gone in time. But, I mean, I took the power meter off.

• 1:00:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I noticed that when we rode the other day that you didn't have a power meter on.

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  You want to buy a power meter?

• 1:00:40Rich Roll?

  I might, actually.

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  Okay, but it's, I mean, I've, it's, I think from a pure performance aspect, you, you know, these tools are amazing. They really are about, you know, you can monitor your performance and you can make great gains and you can see where your gains are made. But for me, like, I was just looking at a black box on my handlebar.

• 1:00:58Rich Roll?

  Right. It's sort of like staring at your phone all the time, right? It's taking you out of the moment.

• 1:01:02Speaker 01

  Yep. And I'm, and I was like, I can't do that. I just can't do it. I wanna, and this is what you'll see in some of the new videos that we've got. Like, I wanna say to people, you'll see, hey, I'm sat looking at a waterfall. I'm, I'm trying to meet the nature on the mountain. We're just enjoying it for what it is.

• 1:01:17Rich Roll?

  Right. You're not trying to hit the Strava KOM for that.

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  Nope, we're not racing up.

• 1:01:21Rich Roll?

  You're stopping in it.

• 1:01:22Speaker 01

  You can do that, of course. It's like, it's awesome. But it's like, we're just saying, I would probably say, you know, 98% of people are gonna go out there and they just wanna make it to the top. And they wanna see it and they wanna go, wow. And hopefully, our little lessons will help them and they'll go, yeah, okay, I don't feel out of my depth because I know that this is the hard section. I know that this is a bridge coming up or whatever.

• 1:01:41Rich Roll?

  Because Mike told me all about it in the video.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  And then he's been lying. There's nothing like that.

• 1:01:53Rich Roll?

  I think this is an interesting kind of place to camp out a little bit. This intersection between kind of online and analog living, right? Because you make your living kind of online, social media and videos and YouTube and all of this. And yet, kind of what you speak to is about being unplugged, right? So, so you have to kind of navigate both of these worlds. And this is something that I'm always trying to balance and I struggle with. And, you know, if you listen to the podcast, people that are listening out there know that I did this like ID Talks where I took like the social media off my phone. And I'm trying to kind of, you know, find the boundaries and the balance and all of these things because I live online also. And I, you know, my living is sort of dependent on that. And yet, I don't wanna be, I wanna have a responsible relationship with those

• 1:02:38Rich Roll?

  two things. And I wanna be able to put it down and go out in nature and just be, just be, just be, right? How do you approach that equation?

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  Well, I think we're still, I'm still learning 100%. So maybe we can, we can help each other. But as, as the business, as what we've done, we've, you know, online is so prolific. We put something out there and the content that we put out there attracts a lot of comments and a lot of people wanting extra advice. So as you've said, for our business, it's absolutely fundamental. And it is a really hard balancing act now. You have to be very disciplined. I'm learning more and more about the sort of experiences and trying to discipline myself to sort of switch off from it because it's so consuming now that you actually miss. Okay, if we put a big ride out there, we miss the whole point of the big ride because we're looking at seven inches of glass.

• 1:03:30Rich Roll?

  And you get that endorphin, oh, how many people are looking and how many comments? And I gotta, you know, like you have this, you develop this compulsive, you know, kind of behavior pattern around it that's not really very healthy.

• 1:03:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, and unfortunately, my personality, I mean, Rich, you may know this about, you know, you can get hooked into things and.

• 1:03:51Rich Roll?

  I'm surprised you're not, I'm surprised you're not an alcoholic and a drug addict.

• 1:03:55Speaker 01

  To be honest, there's a story there.

• 1:03:57Rich Roll?

  There is? All right, now the podcast has officially begun.

• 1:04:01Speaker 01

  But I mean, social, a social question before we delve any further on that. As I say, it's, I think the thing is more and more, certainly what I see and the people which I talk to and have comments from, people are really enjoying the fact that they can escape from what we do. By watching it, they escape again. And I'm going, this is, this is such an awesome feeling because we want people to escape again. We want to try and help them get out there and just be like, just remember when, when you didn't have the phone, when you didn't have Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. Wasn't it simple? What didn't you feel?

• 1:04:37Rich Roll?

  I don't know what you're talking about.

• 1:04:38Speaker 01

  I mean, cast your mind back, Rich, come on. Let's go back a few years. It's like, but it was, life was just simple like that. And these tools are, they're really beneficial, they're, I mean, part of our core business, but there has to be a disconnect. Otherwise, it just comes, it becomes gray again. And your mind, I mean, the thing is. The the social side of stuff has grown so quickly, but we're never gonna develop, the the brain is never gonna develop, humans are never gonna develop to be able to manage all of this technology. Um, and you know, I think we looked online the other night and there's courses that people can go on now to sort of educate them on how to disconnect, you know, and I'm thinking, well, there's another business for someone now because we create this stuff and now we create another, you know, economy and industry over here to say, hey, you know what, we're gonna teach you how to get off the phone.

• 1:05:23Speaker 01

  I'm sort of saying, well, turn it off and go out for a run or, you know, go and breathe some fresh air and take your kids out or whatever. But it's like, there's a heck of a disconnect now, which is is harder and harder because there's more and more tools available and everyone has has them at the, you know, the push of a button.

• 1:05:39Rich Roll?

  Of course, I mean, it's only going to accelerate, which means the onus is more and more on us to create those boundaries and those rules around it. Otherwise, it's just, it infects every aspect of your of your day and and before you know it, you're not showing up for anything. You're just, your face is just planted in your phone your entire day.

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  And that's the hardest, that's the hardest thing, but it's it's so easy to get caught up in that because it's the it's there all the time and, you know, I remember actually, uh, what, maybe five years ago, so put us, what, like 2009, 2010? Yeah, it was probably around that time. I was never even on Facebook and they were on the radio saying, oh, you know, people are addicted to Facebook and this and that. And I was thinking, what are they talking about? This is ridiculous. How can you be addicted to something like that? Yeah, roll forward five years and it's like, it's part of your business, it's part of everything. And, you know, that's it. And, you know, I'm an outdoor-y person, but at the same time, it's it's there, it's part of the business, but it's just about respecting, I think. I think if you can look at the time which you have available and sort of say, okay, look, here's social time and here's here's everything else, here's living time.

• 1:06:41Speaker 01

  Um, and I think it's gonna go more and more, ah, I don't know, I mean, you know, if I could predict the future, then, you know, that would be, that'd be great. I don't know what I'd be doing, but it would, you look at it and you sort of say, okay, where are we going with this? And I see more and more, I think people are gonna just be putting the phones down and switching off and getting back to the roots of living, which, you know, is what, if we can help them do that, then that's that's gonna be, you know, really, uh... Yeah, super cool to see and see that sort of almost like a little bit of a transition in how everyone, how everyone's living their lives now.

• 1:07:12Rich Roll?

  Right, right. As long as they're watching your videos and listening to this podcast.

• 1:07:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. They can do a little bit. We give them a little bit of time when they can do that. That's within their hour or so a week, so.

• 1:07:21Rich Roll?

  All right. I want to get to what was going on with you mentally, emotionally and spiritually to motivate you to do this 1,000 kilometer ride, you know, the road to Mont Blanc across all these mountain passes.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  Uh, well, what we'll do is we'll shift back a little bit to get the process. Um, and you know, the nuts and bolts of why I wanted to try and the sort of moments which led me to, to get to that. Um, you know, it's always been in me for exploration. Um, and you know, just pushing the, the sort of fascination between the mind and the body, and how they can work together to just overcome what, what is perceived possible and what maybe is perceived impossible. Um, and my moment really came, I had a, an experience

• 1:08:14Speaker 01

  which you said about alcoholism and drugs and, you know, I had a moment in 2009 and, you know, it was a family tragedy and, you know, it's hard, you know, I don't, I've sort of blacked it out now, but my younger brother passed away. And it was, life was great up until that point. And suddenly there's a big black hole. It's like, what are you talking about? He's 26 years old.

• 1:08:38Rich Roll?

  And what happened?

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  Uh, he, well, yeah. I mean, it's, it's complicated. But, uh, essentially he was on medication and, uh, it was the process of that medication which didn't agree with him, uh, for anxiety and a bit of stress. He was running his own company from 18 and, Through some medication which he took, which didn't, really didn't, he was very, very sensitive to, to medication and so on and so forth.

• 1:09:07Rich Roll?

  Like anti-anxiety or anti-depression medication?

• 1:09:10Speaker 01

  Like an anti-anxiety and ultimately that led to his, his demise and, you know. Yeah, it was one day he was with, with us and, you know, we're having a great time and it was a Thursday and then Friday mum phones up and say, your brother's passed away. It's like, what, what are you talking about? And I'm like, you know, that for me put everything, my life just was for a year, just was just. I mean, it's hard even to remember it because I just, I had to just try and just deal with it. I mean, no, I was.

• 1:09:44Rich Roll?

  But he, so he, but he took his own life, is that what you're, okay.

• 1:09:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. And.

• 1:09:49Rich Roll?

  Already hear that.

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  But, but it was, you know, the thing is, if you knew, if you knew Al, he was like, God, he was the, the smartest guy. We had a real similar personalities, super clean living and it was, it was just a, um, it was just a moment. Um, you know, you put things in your body that don't agree with you and it takes you out of the moment and, you know, you wake up or you don't. And it's like, well, so, you know, and that was a really, I mean, I'm still like six years down the line. It's like, God, I'm nowhere near over it, but it's like, this is part of the journey which I went through and, and I had, I was really, you know, how do I get over this?

• 1:10:31Speaker 01

  You go through the, the questioning, you know, the unknown, the, the whys, the, the anger, the frustration, you know, all these things you go through and. But the end of the day is like you, you, you live for, you know, what people would believe is the right thing to do. And he, and I always draw a lot of strength from like, he knew how much I loved him and, and also the, you know, what I stood for as an individual. And you, you, you try and get over it, but there was that many months of blackness where, you know, I just thought I'm either gonna go. I can go in one direction, which is gonna be where I am now, which I think is a good direction. Or there's a direction where I don't know what's gonna happen because I've got that.

• 1:11:14Speaker 01

  Typical personality of like, let's, it's all or nothing. And, uh, yeah, I mean.

• 1:11:20Rich Roll?

  I don't know what that's like, but, uh, yeah, there's a, there's a fork in the road, right? You're gonna have to make that choice. Was he your only sibling?

• 1:11:27Speaker 01

  Uh, no, older brother and he was the younger one. So he was the youngest in the family, which is even harder because you're like, he's 26 year old. You say, hey, you know, you, you just don't, I've got no way of explaining like the emotion that you feel. Just like, everything is just dead inside you forever. And you just say, well, what on earth am I going to do now? How do you pick yourself up? And the problem I had was the only place which I felt free, which was on the bike, I suddenly didn't feel free. So I would go out and the brain, my brain would just not switch off and I hated it. I couldn't, I couldn't stand going out. I was just like, I don't want to go out on my bike anymore. It's like, and that was me. And I was like, well, how on earth, this is the only thing which keeps me sane is driving me mental. What am I going to do? So it was, this was the process.

• 1:12:07Rich Roll?

  Right. The one thing that, that gives you a sense of self and hope and, and a good feeling now is not available to you.

• 1:12:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it was like, I mean.

• 1:12:16Rich Roll?

  How do you get to the other side of that?

• 1:12:18Speaker 01

  Well, it was a, a year went by and I was like, I was just, just completely in a like head in the clouds. You, you were there in, in body, but in mind, you were just, you're just not there at all. Um, and everyone was so supportive. Um, family, friends, work, you know, that was just, I've got great friends and great support, which is absolutely fundamental in life on everything, not just in a tragic, tragic situation. Um, and uh, this was, this is why, you know, I feel really proud of what we've achieved now even more so just, just from having a, a standard trajectory and working hard and, and living clean and doing what we do. But

• 1:12:58Speaker 01

  I got to the point, this was so 2009 and, and life was just not right. I just couldn't get over the fact that I couldn't, I didn't have an answer to it and I couldn't work it out. Whereas normally I can work stuff out. Like it's black and white. That's on the table. If I do this, I can get that result or I go in that direction. And I couldn't, I just couldn't get over it. I couldn't work it out. And, uh, and this was, this was where the Pyrenean ride came from. And I said, just, it was, uh, September 9th, 2011, it's my brother's birthday. And I said, like, we're just going to go ride the mountains. I'm, I'm back, I'm coming back. I'm just going to ride the mountains and I'm going to go from, from Atlantic to the Mediterranean. We're just going to see, I just, I absolutely, if I. If I don't do this, I'm gonna combust.

• 1:13:44Speaker 01

  I'm just gonna go and let's just see what happens. I just wanna go and get feel at one with myself again. Uh, I'm in the deepest, you know, Pyrenean Mountains, just on my own with a little head torch. And Deb's following in the car and a couple of friends just to support. And that was the absolute pivotal moment. It was like, what is gonna happen? And I've never felt so connected to, you know, to nature, to the world, to my brother at that moment. And that was a hundred percent when I finished, we got to the med and it was like, you know, I can't. Now I can't go back to work. I can't go and do, this is what I have to do.

• 1:14:25Speaker 01

  And it was, so I thank, you know, I thank him for giving me the extra, you know, the extra sort of soul, so to speak of just like, this is now what I need to do. Like, this is where I feel the best. So why am I wasting time? Why am I, you know, why am I not progressing what I believe I can do with my, with my experience and my soul and my heart and everything? And that was the, you know, the fundamental pivotal moment of actually, let's, I said to Deb in the kitchen, like a month later or something, we came back and I just said, do you wanna be a photographer? Do you wanna, do you wanna try and do this? Do you wanna try and pull it all together? We've got great experience and she had, she had the faith. Fool.

• 1:15:08Rich Roll?

  Well, what I, what I, that's an amazing story, by the way. Thank you for, for trusting me with, with, with hearing that.

• 1:15:17Rich Roll?

  And what I love about it, well, I love a lot of things about it, but what really strikes me about it is how little relationship it has to logic. There's, there's no logic involved in this, right? Like you, you're having this emotional experience and you can't see your way through it. And it occurs to you that you just need to get on your bike and ride it really a very extremely long distance. That makes no sense. And, and in the, in the process of doing so and getting to the other side of that, you are blessed with answers that set your life in a new direction and trajectory. And it had nothing to do with sitting down and making a spreadsheet. I mean, you're an engineer, right? This is probably how you're used to solving your problems. Like, how are we going to do this? Well, here are the options. You know, what's the, what are the pluses and the minuses of all of these things?

• 1:16:02Rich Roll?

  That had nothing to do with any of this. This was a purely emotional, spiritual pursuit that ended up. Resolving these issues for you and for what your life would then turn into.

• 1:16:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly right. I mean, all the time leading up to the Pyrenean Challenge, you know, I'd learnt a lot. The experience was there. It all made sense to a point. But then that coming into the Mediterranean and just being like, I don't even know. I really don't know what, you know, it was just this feeling that it's so hard to explain. It's when you're in the moment, you're 100% present in what you're doing. Every heartbeat, every pedal stroke, every breath, every smell, everything. And I was just so in the moment that I just thought, you know, now it makes sense. This is what I need to bring these emotions to other people. And if I can do that and I can help from that side. And but it taught me, the 10 years I'd been working taught me so much.

• 1:16:58Speaker 01

  The 30 hours I was on the bike taught me 10 years worth of experience and more. Just because I just got out and, you know, it actually taught me to survive. It taught me how to overcome these emotions. It taught me how to control my emotions. It taught me everything. And it sort of maybe putting it out there on the line and going deep into the unknown. I didn't even know, well, when am I going to crack? When am I going to fail? When's the body going to give up? Whatever. I had no idea. And that was, it was like, let's just go back to basics. Let's just, if you detach everything and just go and ride, go and run, go and do, like, let's go completely back to basics and let's just see what we can achieve. And that was the most purest feeling I've ever had in my life.

• 1:17:40Speaker 01

  And subsequently from that, you know, we took it away and said, hey, you know, can we do this? Can I do this as a career? I mean, it seems crazy, but hey, let's give it a go. And that's that led to where we are now with the brands that we work with, creating content and trying to help and inspire. And that's all I want to do.

• 1:18:01Rich Roll?

  With respect to these challenges, I mean, there's something about. You're speaking to the purity of them, but when you put yourself in that situation, whether you're riding from the Atlantic to the Mediterranean, where you're going to meet your maker, where you're pushing yourself so hard to the very edges of that envelope, where everything else gets burned away. So whether you're an ultra runner who's running bad water, or you're doing what you do, or you're doing Epic 5, you truly connect with who you really are, and there's no room for anything else. And there's a relationship, kind of connect, that occurs in that space, that is something very sacred and special that I don't know that I've ever been able to fully articulate or describe, other than

• 1:18:45Rich Roll?

  to say that it is profound.

• 1:18:47Speaker 01

  It's the moment where everything makes sense. And I mean, I have, it's like, you take everything back to basics. I always sort of come back to that. And you strip it back so raw, that it's like you can tap into your mind so much, that it's like you understand what you're thinking, instead of just thinking it. It's like, I understand the logic behind it. You understand, you can feel, like, everything which I do is like, yeah, I don't want to take painkillers, I don't want to take anything. I want to feel every hard moment, because I'm going to remember that, and it's going to be, it's going to come back, and it's going to help me in the future. And you just strip yourself back to that purity. You put yourself out on the line. I mean, I have no idea, I'm

• 1:19:27Speaker 01

  not, the thing is with Epic 5, with Ultraman, with these challenges, with what I do, they're so unknown. I mean, you have a professional racer, and it's very much like, you've put the training in, you know you can go that fast, you can put out that wattage you're going to get on the podium, with a bit of luck. Whereas, you take yourself out of that equation, and you go into the unknown, and it's literally body, mind, soul, spirit, and the great outdoors. And that's just like, for me, that's the way it should be, that's the purest, that's just because you find out who you are, you find out what life is, and in a very short space of time, you overcome things, you know, the mental aspect of it, which is a hugely important part. You can really connect with who you are as

• 1:20:11Speaker 01

  an individual, and where you're going to struggle, and where you're, and how to get over it. You solve these problems out on the road or the trail. And for me, that's just a beautiful way to experience sport and life in general.

• 1:20:23Rich Roll?

  So what is the biggest takeaway when you look back on the challenges that you've endured? Like, if you had to, if you had to explain to somebody at a cocktail party in a very concise manner, like, what are you getting out of this?

• 1:20:36Speaker 01

  I would probably, big question. I think I would say what I'm getting out of it is I learn about my true inner being. Pretty much sums it up for me. It's, you know, it's just about who I actually am. And this is not like, as I say, we don't get to the end of a challenge. I don't finish a challenge and there's not a big fanfare. There's not a big paycheck. There's not a medal or trophy. There's no one. There's people doing, there's people doing their shopping.

• 1:21:10Rich Roll?

  Is there a paycheck at all for you? Not a big paycheck, but a paycheck? I never got a paycheck. No, but what, you know, yeah, I mean, look, I think it's important for people to understand that, like, I know that you're a guy who's not doing this for ego. You're doing this to, like, show other people that they're probably overly, overly limiting their own lives. And, and you do that through sharing. Like, when you're tackling, I mean, look, you're a genetic freak. You, you can climb these mountains, like, it's incredible. And, and to be able to watch you do that and then say, hey, I'm gonna show you how you can do this too. Like, I'm enjoying this, you can enjoy it too. Come with me. I'm doing this for you. This is not about me. Like, I'm a, I'm a vessel through which I can share this thing that I love, this experience,

• 1:21:55Rich Roll?

  and I want you to, like, brush up against this too and feel what I'm feeling.

• 1:21:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that's, that's, that's right. I mean, it's a case of, I mean, I would feel, from my own personal point of view, it's like, I've, I've invested so much time, invested so many years, I've had so many great experiences. If I can't give that back, what's the point? What's the point? I mean, you know, like, if, if you can give one person that, that gift of the same, like, wow, I made it to the top of the mountain, or, you know what, I've just got myself a bike, or, just got out the front door. It's like, that's mission accomplished. So, it's really about, you know, it teaches, the takeaway really is, I think there's so much more if you just... Believe in what you could do, but you've actually got to get up off the couch and just try it for yourself. And I mean, you know, you say I'm a genetic freak or whatever. Well, you know, that's a great compliment. I'll take that any day of the week, but you know.

• 1:22:43Rich Roll?

  You've been doing it for a long. You've put your 10,000 hours in.

• 1:22:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. But then at the same time, hey, I wasn't a racing cyclist. I haven't done the Tour de France. I haven't done. So from that respect, you put me in a lab and I'm probably pretty normal. But I've got, you know, a mind which is saying, hey, can I do this? And the heart to say, yeah, let's give it a try. And I think those elements, everyone's got those two elements. You've just got to get them in sync and then believe in it and try and try and get out and achieve and try something for yourself. And as I say, it's, it can start with the smallest step. And often the smallest step is the hardest step. But once you've made that step, as you've seen in your life as well, it's like you make the change, make the positive change and see where you'll be. And, and it's amazing the, the things which the body and the mind, right from when I was a kid, analyzing and thinking, I wonder, I wonder if the body and the mind work together, what

• 1:23:28Speaker 01

  can happen? And we, you know what? I finished the, finished the Road to Mont Blanc in August and just like, I survived. It's like, that shouldn't have happened. I mean, I was petrified. Up until all the challenges I've done up until this one, I had a handle of I can ride through one night. I can do one night because I've done it before. But two nights? You sure?

• 1:23:47Rich Roll?

  You're riding through one night on your training rides? And you're doing 300 mile training rides?

• 1:23:51Speaker 01

  That was a, that was a crazy, crazy day.

• 1:23:54Rich Roll?

  All right. But what, you know, what was like the darkest moment? Was there a, was there a make or break moment in any of these challenges where you're like, I don't know, I'm, I'm ready to pull the plug and quit? And like, how did you see yourself through that?

• 1:24:07Speaker 01

  Well, definitely 100% the hardest moment was in Road to Mont Blanc. The buildup had gone well, but I was really, as I say, I was, I think I put so much extra stress on my body because I was just so nervous about the challenge. And it was the real unknown. It was like, okay, if I do another one night, through the night once in the mountains, okay, I've done that. I've done that before. But the two nights was just so much extra stress. Plus the fact that now it's gone from, this is what's in me from a, an emotional, spiritual point of view to, I've got brands, you know, investing time and resource and, and everything to, hey, we've got a project, we're going to make a video, we're going to put yourself out to the world. And, which is all great, but it's a lot of extra stress.

• 1:24:50Rich Roll?

  You keel over on night two.

• 1:24:51Speaker 01

  Or night one.

• 1:24:52Rich Roll?

  Night one.

• 1:24:53Speaker 01

  But.

• 1:24:54Rich Roll?

  I mean, going into that second night, I mean, how? I mean, you had to be like hallucinating.

• 1:25:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, the hardest thing for me was in the buildup, I looked at the forecast and it looked pretty horrendous. And I was saying to the key brand which was supporting us, Mavic, they had the support car on the road and they're really, they're so in tune with the whole spiritual side of cycling and the emotion and the exploration and it's incredible to have that support. But, and I was saying to the guys, you know, have you seen the forecast? The forecast looks terrible. Like, we can do this any, practically any day in the summer. Let's pick a great day. Let's give me a little bit of a chance to actually make this, you know, I've put a thousand hours of training in, like, let's not see me crumble at, you know, 300 miles in or something. And

• 1:25:42Speaker 01

  and they, they say, you know, we've tried to like move around all the pieces and get the support organized, but all the pieces are in place. We're just gonna have to go for it. And then we look to the forecast, they say, it's no problem. It's only gonna rain for half of it. And I was like, that's half of it's a day. Can't, you know, that's, because you're doing these big challenges, like, let's put it in perspective. That's 24 hours. I'm never gonna survive that. And that's my nemesis, the cold and the wet. I just, my body just shuts down. It's like, game over. I mean, I've done

• 1:26:08Rich Roll?

  Cold, wet feet.

• 1:26:10Speaker 01

  Training rides in the UK and like after an hour or two and it's, you can't feel anything. Dexterity's gone. You know, you lose so much energy, your carbohydrate stores are stripped like that and you just, you end up shivering and it's just, I'm gonna be a wreck. And when I saw the forecast, I was just like, we can't, this is just gonna be a mission to nowhere. All this hard work, all this time. And we got down to Italy just before the start. We were starting on a Monday and Friday, both Deb and I have woken up by the biggest, most vicious thunderstorm. It was like the devil had risen from hell and was just ripping down this little Cottage that we were staying in and it was we were looking at the windows just going,

• 1:26:55Speaker 01

  I mean, I was screaming going like if I'm out in that now, if I'm in the mountains now, there's no way I'm going to survive. So it's it's just this is just not this is just a stupid challenge now. And it was all that stress and everything. And so even before we started, it was like, how on earth are we going to actually get through this? There was never a moment where I felt really, really confident and comfortable as I had done in the past. But then we made the decision. It was like decision made. We are doing the challenge and there's no other as soon as there I think as soon as there is options to change something, then there's a way out, then you stress. And then I went and we all sat down.

• 1:27:34Rich Roll?

  Decision fatigue.

• 1:27:35Speaker 01

  Decision fatigue, exactly that. And we all sat down and said, are we going to do it? Or are we going to call it off? And I was like, we are going to do it. There's no way. As soon as someone said, we're either going to call it off or do it. It's not like we're going to postpone it. We're going to call it off. We're going to do it. I say, hey, I spent a thousand hours training this year in amongst running a business and absolutely killing myself to get to where I am. Like, and all the support and the, you know, that puts a lot of stress on relationships and and the business and everything. And I said, well, we're just gonna have to, we're gonna have to go for it. And the hardest, the hardest point was when the first spots of rain came and I knew that I was in for an absolute hiding for the first night, because I thought I I don't think I'm going to survive the rain. But it's just incredible, again, what the mind can achieve. And I I look back now and

• 1:28:20Speaker 01

  I think we spent seven, maybe seven and a half hours in really hard dolomite rain, which is which is big, you know, on the on the descents, on the climbs, it was, you just, there's no way thunder, lightning, you just would not want to be there. You wouldn't want to be outside in those conditions. And and I look back and I don't remember it being, I was just in a zone. I was just completely in a in a trance of just like, hey, I'm still moving forward, therefore I can keep going and just keep going and keep going. And we got to the bottom of the Stelvio, four o'clock in the morning. We'd gone through the valley and the Stelvio is the highest road pass in Italy. It was about after three hundred

• 1:29:00Speaker 01

  Kilometers roughly and I sat on the back of the Mavic car. There was a driver asleep on the front of the car. Deb was sat on the back of the car and it was a really special moment because we just looked at each other like, what the heck are we doing?

• 1:29:13Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:29:14Speaker 01

  What on earth?

• 1:29:15Rich Roll?

  So when you approached the Stelvio, how many hours had you been riding?

• 1:29:17Speaker 01

  Oh, what would I done? So that was four in the morning. I started at one, uh, one o'clock in the afternoon. So what does that work out to be about 15 hours, 16 hours, something like that?

• 1:29:26Rich Roll?

  Yeah. For the listener, I mean, the Stelvio is a ridiculous climb. It's also the one, the most dramatic to photograph.

• 1:29:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:32Rich Roll?

  Looking down because you can see every.

• 1:29:34Speaker 01

  There's 48 hairpins, 48 hairpins, but it takes you like, uh, it must take you about 20, 25 minutes to get to the first hairpin. You're going up a little drag and, and it was, uh, we were so, I was freezing cold and I just said, well, there's no point changing kit yet. I'll change at the top. And, and I just thought, we're only, we're a third of the way in and this is, I mean, how on earth am I going to manage this from a mental, physical perspective? And I crawled up the Stelvio like, and I was almost, Deb was in the support car saying to the, uh, one of the Mavic guy, Fred, who was supporting with us, why is he so, uh, Fred was saying, why, why is, why is Mike so close to the wall? Why is he so close to the wall? And Deb's like, he's falling asleep. He's like, he's just, he's

• 1:30:18Speaker 01

  just conscious. And I was totally just, just on the edge and, and that is what brings you to the moment. That's what every single pedal stroke, every single breath is like, you, you're, you're only living for that, that second. And then you're back in it, back in it, back on the zone, back in the zone. And, and I made it, I mean, it's the hardest, the hardest thing obviously is the nights to get through the first night. Even the thing is, it's frustrating because you can't bank sleep. Like you can't just go, I'm going to sleep really good for three or four days and then I'm going to go through two nights.

• 1:30:47Rich Roll?

  Right. Doesn't work that way.

• 1:30:48Speaker 01

  Because you're, as soon as I tried to sleep well, but I, you know, you're, the adrenaline's coming, you're anxious and it's suddenly you get there and, you know, your body is saying, hey, it's nine o'clock. I'm going to start shutting down. I'm going to get ready for my sleep time. It's all these processes that, hey, it's millions of years we've evolved through. I can't go against that. So a hundred percent, you just have to fight through it. And, uh, and when we, we got to the top of the Stelvio and I changed a bit of clothes, it was bitterly cold, like zero degrees or, or centigrade and, uh,

• 1:31:17Speaker 01

  Freezing, just above freezing and descended down and I was overshooting the bends. It was real lucky because it was early in the morning, so there was no traffic. And I would wake up like, oh my God, I've just overshot another bend.

• 1:31:28Rich Roll?

  So you're literally falling asleep at the wheel as you're descending.

• 1:31:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I mean, I'm not condoning any of this ludicrous behaviour because, you know, and I stopped on the descent of the Stelvin. I said, hey, I need to take a little bit of, I just got to like, I've got to wake myself up. I've just got to, I've got to get to the valley and I stopped in the valley, Bormio, before we had the Gavia pass and it was warm down there. So it was coming and it was like, oh, I feel safe, I feel safe. I just had to get that extra couple of degrees warmth. And I joke that, you know, I'm solar powered, but it's true. As soon as the sun comes up, I was like, it took me another two or three hours before it really got warm. And then I was like, ah, okay, I can feel, I feel, you know, back in control a little bit. I'm, I'm over that moment. But then the second night was just like, there was the hardest.

• 1:32:13Speaker 01

  I mean, I've had a, yeah, I sort of hate to say it, but I've had a couple of hallucinations beforehand in training and they're not fun. And then going up for the second night, the road to Mont Blanc, the first one, I was climbing and I kept, I didn't, I don't know if the support car could see, but I kept seeing, it was almost like I was trying to duck under something. I kept ducking, ducking, ducking like, whoa, I'm going to hit my head. And I realised when I really could focus, I got a shot of adrenaline like, oh, what am I doing? What am I doing? And I noticed that it was because the sky was so black and I couldn't, the focus, I couldn't have the disconnect between actually that sky and the distance and where I'm riding.

• 1:32:51Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:32:52Speaker 01

  And I was like, oh man, this is just too much now. And then an hour or so later, I remember I was, I was coming around a hairpin bend, grovelling up. I can't even remember what climate was and I thought, that's an awfully funny place to put like a, like a lifeboat. Some people have done some real, you know, they've done a good job there, but some people are crazy. They go and put a boat in their front garden or something. And it was halfway up a mountain and as I went past it, this whole thing just disappeared and I was like, this is not, this is not a good place to be in.

• 1:33:21Rich Roll?

  But you never tipped over, you never fully fell asleep or you never really said, I'm done, I gotta quit, like.

• 1:33:27Speaker 01

  No, I mean.

• 1:33:28Rich Roll?

  It never reached that point.

• 1:33:29Speaker 01

  It would have been, I mean, it's. My mind and everything doesn't, I don't have a capacity like, it would be someone else telling me like, it's over. Like, and I always said like, for me, it's like, it's over when I've crashed. I don't want that to happen. I don't, I don't wanna put, like, this isn't about putting people's lives in danger. This is about a challenge and there is a line which you have to draw when it's like, this is too much now. And the thing is, we're, it's four o'clock in the morning, nobody is on the mountain apart from us. If I keel over on my bike, hey, it's me who's gonna get hurt. We're not gonna jeopardize anyone else. The support team, I feel for the support team, because it's really hard following someone up a climb at four miles an hour, five miles an hour, for that amount of time.

• 1:34:14Speaker 01

  Looking at the back of a bike with a flashing light, it's just mesmerizing and it's like, and I didn't, no, I didn't, um, I just, and it puts you into that situation where you're just living for that precise second again. And, and my mind is just like, how do I, I've just gotta keep going, I've gotta keep going. Okay, my body, like, I didn't have cramps, I didn't have, I'm working at a pace which is just like, let's just keep going. It's a survival pace. Um, and then as soon as the, as soon as you get that element of the sun coming up again, it's like you feel just born again. And it's, I came, it was a, on the Ober Outpass and the sun came up and it was super rich orange light and I just thought, this was the moment where I still had, you know,

• 1:34:59Speaker 01

  three hundred K to go or something, but it was, I like, everything shifted in a moment. It was from the unknown, from months and months and months of, I've got no idea how I'm gonna survive this, achieve it, to like, everything again made sense and you get into this, for me, it's this, it's, you know, traditional, you could term it as a flow state and it's just the most. Connected again feeling that you have with everything you've lived for for so long. And when I get into that moment, that, and I think that's your mind is now relaxed. Up until that point, my mind was just, it was just stressed. It was, and then I'm relaxed. And then when the mind is relaxed, it's like, I absolutely hundred percent knew that I was,

• 1:35:43Speaker 01

  I could do, I could achieve what I wanted to do. And I have no pain. There was nothing, it was just pure joy from that point. It was still, it was still hard work, but it was a different, it was like I was present in the moment, but almost I've described it in the past as being just, just a, just a touch ahead of that moment before it happens. You just feel back in control. And that, i- it's harder and harder to find those moments now because it's a progression. It gets harder to get into that zone. But I remember going up, so maybe the third or fourth climb before the end and just, I was just smiling so much inside because I just knew that I had everything, that the right support, I had my, my girlfriend with me, which is like, she's part of everything which I do.

• 1:36:27Speaker 01

  It's like, life just made sense again. And I just was, this is just everything which I've lived for up until this point. And I can't, I can't give anymore. I don't want to give anymore, but I'm just, everything is just working as it should be. And I'm just, this is it, this is it, we're just going to keep going.

• 1:36:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's beautiful. I mean, I think what's, what's, what's interesting is, and you know this because you have so much experience, that when you reach that point where you think you're toast and you just can't go anymore, you're just, how am I ever going to make you have a whole other day ahead of you or whatever, you think you'll never dig out of that hole. But then something, you know, moments go by and suddenly you feel different. So you can't judge that, that low point as being the be all, end all of what the rest of the experience is going to be.

• 1:37:10Speaker 01

  No, I, I think that's a really, really good point because I think for the most part, unless you've gone beyond that point, the, the, it's more than a bonking point. It's more than when you run out of energy or, and whatever. But if you, if you, if you step beyond that, again, if you just try and go, uh, try and just get your mind to just be quiet for a bit and just accept that you're going to push it really far and just don't complain, don't just, just bear with me on this. Uh, everything will be okay. But when, once you've gone beyond that point of like where I was having the, the first night in the rain, the second night with the. With the hallucinations and it's like, how on earth, what am I doing? This is, this is the point when the brain is saying, right, it's over, just stop, just stop. You've done good, you've done alright.

• 1:37:54Speaker 01

  But once you go beyond that, I mean, ah, coming up the last mountain, how on earth? I feel good, I feel good, I feel like, I mean, I had a little bit of a knee, a little bit of knee ache, um, probably a little bit of tendonitis, but hey, you know what? I've been on the bike for fifty odd hours, it's like, you know, but, but really, I had no, no pain. It was like, this is, this because I was just, I think the mind was so in tune with what I wanted to do now. And I believed for the first time in months that we can do it. And, uh, and I think that's a really important learning curve for everyone, just to, wherever you think your boundary is, if you can, if you can get to that point, but then step just a little bit further, the whole world opens up again and it's like, wow, I never had a clue I could do that, so.

• 1:38:35Rich Roll?

  That's amazing, yeah, I mean, that's, that's definitely true. And I think that's where the faith part comes in, the belief part and the realization that, you know, the body is capable of so much more than you think it, it can. Uh, but it requires you to open yourself up mentally and emotionally to avail yourself of that experience before, you know, pulling the plug before you, you know, before the miracle happens, you know? And when you've experienced that, there's just, there's nothing, there's nothing like it. So when people say to you like, why do you do that, you know, why are you doing these things? I mean, that ephemeral moment is priceless.

• 1:39:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's so hard to explain and try and explain to people because it's a, it's such a feeling. It's, it's hard to put it into a real context and words, but, uh, you know, it's just, it's like if you could just have the best feeling ever, um, enjoying something that you truly believe in. And, you know, if you could cup it up and have it anytime, it's like, you know, god, you'd, you'd be able to solve so many people's problems because life would be simple again, but it's like, you have to get that feeling and it's just, it's just what makes, it may, I think it's what makes all the hard work, the sacrifices, the, the stress, the moments of self doubt. It, it's, everything comes together and that's the, that's the purest moment of, I think, which people, which athletes from every type of discipline.

• 1:39:55Speaker 01

  Out there and they find that moment and that's what makes it makes the hard work from some extent seem worthwhile, but also gives you that that faith to believe that there's more than than just what you're doing at that moment. There's more out there and yeah, it's pretty humbling to to get to that stage.

• 1:40:21Rich Roll?

  What do you say to people that come up to you and say, I'm amazed by what you've done and it's so inspiring and you know, I'd like to do something too. I just, I don't know how to, what do I do or how do you know, what should I do or how can I have, you know, how can I experience a little bit of, you know, what you're talking about?

• 1:40:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, first of all, and to be honest, we get questions through a lot of the the projects and activities that we do and content that we put out there, which is is similar to that. That's that's what we're trying to trying to instill that belief. But, you know, I would, I would say, you know, look at where you are now and be realistic about where you are and where you would hope, whatever your dream is, it doesn't matter. What is your dream? Because only there's only one person who can stop that dream coming true and that's you. So if you want to take that dream, put it on the, put it on the table, put it out there and just work towards it and say, hey, if your goal is to ride one mountain, okay, well, the first step is I need to look at what mountain that is and

• 1:41:19Speaker 01

  break it down and make it, put it into a tangible way that you can just go, okay, I didn't just dream up, I'm going to go and do it, jump on the bike, let's see what happens. Years and years and years of just putting a plan together, working towards it. So first of all is like have the belief, have the actual self belief that the world is out there for for riding, for running, for everything, for for business. And it's like, whatever you want to try and achieve, break it down and start with that first step and say, right, I want to get to the top of a mountain. It might be a local hill. It might be depending on your level. It might be, you know,

• 1:41:52Rich Roll?

  And that mountain might be a metaphoric mountain, right?

• 1:41:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:56Rich Roll?

  This can be a career thing. This can be anything.

• 1:41:58Speaker 01

  It could be your nutrition, your food, your diet, your your business. And really, you know, I think what's great is with sport in general, it teaches you so much about not only you as an individual, but how you can apply the hard work, how you can get over the hard times, the moments when the wheels are falling off, the legs are falling off, everything is is not going in a direction which you would have hoped it to to go in. And it's almost like a fast track into understanding that and being able to adjust where you are at that moment in time and and take a hopefully a good decision and move forward. And as I say, I think I think that the amount of hours I've spent thinking out on the bike and having that that that free time and just the giving me, you know, the creative side

• 1:42:41Speaker 01

  of like, yeah, I come back from writing and just think, yeah, I've got these ideas now. Let's get them down on paper. And, you know, it's a it's an escapism. And I would just say that really have an end goal, but don't focus on the end goal. Focus on the first step. Have that end goal is where you really want to try and get to, but make sure it's realistic. But then take that first step and after the first step, you get the second step and then the third step and, you know, and just really make it have the belief, you know, make sure that it's something which you really believe in. And then I think there's you've got all the all the tools and all the assets to to bring that to life as long as you believe in it. And, you know, it's part of you and you really want to achieve it, then there's no reason why you can't.

• 1:43:20Rich Roll?

  I mean, I would add to that, that I think a big part of your success equation is what we touched on earlier, which is this idea of how can this be of service to other people? How can how can I incorporate what I'm doing into a context that is that is giving back? Because that seems to be a core component of of everything that you do. And it it brushes up against how you work with brands. I mean, you've been referencing Mavic throughout the entire conversation. You work with Cannondale, you work with these other brands. And what I see is somebody who takes those relationships super seriously and and and not for granted and says. How can I benefit these people that are supporting me? How can I really make sure that these people are getting something out of this relationship?

• 1:44:04Rich Roll?

  I see a lot of athletes, whether they're triathletes, how can I? They want to be sponsored, right? But they just want the free stuff or whatever, but they're not thinking about it from the brand's perspective. Like, what is the brand getting out of this? What is their ROI? Like, how are they benefiting in this equation? And I see you who really, you appreciate that aspect of it and you're looking like, I can really help Mavic out. I really believe in this, their products, this brand. I think it's a great brand. I like this company. Like, I'm going to do all these things because I want everybody else to see, you know, like, how great this stuff is. And you believe that and you live it and you demonstrate that in the work that you're doing.

• 1:44:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that's, that's right. I mean, looking at, I mean, I've always looked at it and said, there's a racing element of sport. And if you win a race, then you'll get some exposure. That's great. It's, that's only open to such a small amount of people. It's a tiny percentage and I was never a prolific winner of like, oh, yeah, you know, you're genetically gifted to be a Tour de France winner or even rider. But I could look at it and say, if we do something which helps other people and we put the brands in the right position, then they'll have a, like naturally, you associate with, you make friends and you associate with friends and you ask friends, hey, what's a good product? And because you trust your friends. And I wanted to try and take the brands which we work with and represent.

• 1:45:26Speaker 01

  And I've worked with them many years and I wanted to try and make them friends of everyone which we touch and say, we're offering a free service. We want to try and help you. Okay, you know, these are the products which have personally helped me. And it's a very, from, from my own sort of perspective, I'm really lucky and glad that I'm able to work with the brands which we've worked with for a long time because I've built personal friendships with the brand and I truly believe in them. And a brand can come to us and say, hey, we want you to do this and this. But it's like, I have to really have the faith and they've had to, like, I've had to have used the product and gone like, I know this product works good. It's like, this really saved my life a few times, quite a few times in fact. And I know

• 1:46:06Speaker 01

  If I'm in a bad situation, this is a great jacket or whatever it is, or you know, energy product. So it all comes down to, for me, pure authenticity of like what we're trying to put in front of people isn't a isn't marketing hype. This is just what I use and I've used it for years. And if you go back and look at the history, it's like I've used these these products and these brands for for years and years and years. And I just tried to look at it and say, well, how can we, how can we actually help these people and put them in, put, put the, put the brand and put the, put the company in and, and produce a, produce project like the, the, obviously the latest project with the education and the coal collective is like saying, we've got a complete platform now, which we're going to just try and help you for free.

• 1:46:47Speaker 01

  And it's like, okay, you're going to see a few brands, but these guys chip in so we can actually do it to make your life easier and better. And it's, it was just looking at it from a different perspective, from a different business perspective on how I could, you know, there's only so many times you can ride 21 mountains and survive. I'm saying, you know, how long is my, how, how, how long are my legs going to last? And I'm sort of saying, well, I need to.

• 1:47:09Rich Roll?

  Come on, you're young. How old are you?

• 1:47:11Speaker 01

  Thirty five.

• 1:47:12Rich Roll?

  Whatever. All right.

• 1:47:13Speaker 01

  I'm getting old. It's getting, the legs are, but at the same time, it's a.

• 1:47:17Rich Roll?

  No, I get it. I love, I love it. I love it. I mean, we got to talk about, I'm going to get crucified if I don't ask you about your nutrition.

• 1:47:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love it.

• 1:47:25Rich Roll?

  What do you eat when you ride these crazy long things? What do you eat during training? How does this all work? Like, how, you know, how do you make it function?

• 1:47:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's been a, it's been a topic, nutrition's been a topic of mine since I was a super young kid and, you know, the, the short story is when I was racing, you know, I got into, racing sort of 13, 14, 15 years old and I was, I thought, well, how can I, how can I get faster? So I naturally, you know, chopped out the chips and the processed food and I tried to eat the baked potato and, and do it all nice and healthily and, and really like, you know, fast track on 20 odd years. And I've, I've lived really clean and whole food my whole life, which is quite. Unique, I guess. And there was a lot of times when I was working with Calendour and then we'd go out for a meal and everyone's having a few beers and they wanna, you know, they say, why are you eating all this, you know, rabbit food and seeds and nuts? And I was like, well,

• 1:48:17Speaker 01

  you know, originally, when I was actually living abroad, I was, I was still, you know, I was came from, from home. So, you know, had a home cooked meal, which was great for, for many years. And then when I was cooking for myself, I just wanted to try and keep it as simple as possible. And I was just like, I'm just gonna keep it, almost experiment on myself and I'm just gonna keep things really simple. And I just bought, you know, good quality whole foods. And at the time, people were like, you can't live on this stuff. It's not possible.

• 1:48:41Rich Roll?

  You can't live on whole foods?

• 1:48:43Speaker 01

  It's impossible. You have to have this processed junk. And so, you know, for years and years and years and years, I kind of went against the grain and was just riding my bike and seemed to get on well with, you know, I ate, you know, sort of a little, little bit of fish every now and again, but really it was fruit and veg, tons of fruit and veg, because I wanted to be a pro cyclist. I wanted to be thin and lean. And, and I thought, this is the way, you know, it's, it's, these are clean foods and I'm gonna do that. But I always ate a little bit of, a little bit of fish because I need protein. I've got to get my protein from somewhere. I was like, oh, okay. And I, you know, I never had a science background in nutrition and I, you know, I just did it.

• 1:49:24Speaker 01

  What the thing which is unique with what I've done is everything's just been on feel. It's like, hey, I put this in, how do I feel? Yeah, I feel pretty good. Okay, let's do more of that.

• 1:49:33Rich Roll?

  That's pretty lazy for an engineer.

• 1:49:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:49:36Rich Roll?

  Where's the scientific method in that?

• 1:49:37Speaker 01

  I was working out other stuff at the time, probably. My brain was probably muddled with some other equations somewhere.

• 1:49:43Rich Roll?

  You're staring at your power meter.

• 1:49:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. That was driving me crazy. So, but yeah, it's interesting. And, and just over the years, just, for me personally, the whole sort of ethical side of, of what I was doing, I, you know, I was getting a lot out of the earth. I was, I was in the mountains. I was free. And I just thought to myself, well, hang in a minute, if I'm doing, if I'm, if I'm out enjoying, you know, nature as it, as it's intended, I don't want to strip it. I want to enjoy it more. So I don't want to strip it out. So I just tried to, tried to be as. What I thought was as good as I could with nutrition forever. And subsequently, you know, years go by, go pass by and, you know, I get to big challenges.

• 1:50:24Speaker 01

  And I mean, I work with a nutrition brand and I really like them because they're organic. They've got a good ethos and but even those guys, they said for the big challenges. I mean, I'm really, really simple. It's like we made, we cooked up some organic wraps and filled them with rice. We made some sweet potato, we put a bit of salt on. And I mean, those guys, they make energy bars, energy gels, energy drinks. They make the traditional, really good quality product for the sort of racing cyclist, I guess. The guys who want the quick, quick energy. And I'm sort of saying, well, that's not, that's not what I'm about. I'm going to have to try and fuel myself.

• 1:51:06Rich Roll?

  More like gels and sugar.

• 1:51:07Speaker 01

  I mean, I don't, I just don't do gels.

• 1:51:09Rich Roll?

  You can't, well, there's no way you could do what you do on.

• 1:51:12Speaker 01

  But even when I was, even when I was younger, just because it was, I mean, they were expensive when I was a kid and you don't have support and you think, well, okay, I'll just make a jam sandwich or something, you know? It's like, you know, it's that, it's just keeping it simple at the end of the day. And, and sort of as I say, fast forward to the challenges and things like this. And the great thing is the guys which I work with for support with nutrition, they said, yeah, for what you want to do, you need some proper solid food. They're not trying to blind, they're not saying, hey, take our product because we need to see it on the bike and you doing this and this and this. They're genuine people. They want to see someone try and achieve something. And that's why I like working with brands who are authentic. They have, you know, a good ethos. And so really I survived for, I mean, my predominant diet is fruit veg.

• 1:51:58Speaker 01

  I'm now plant powered, which for the like last just over a year. And that came about thanks to Rich Roll Podcast.

• 1:52:06Rich Roll?

  There you go, man.

• 1:52:07Speaker 01

  About telling me more educated.

• 1:52:08Rich Roll?

  My tentacles in you.

• 1:52:09Speaker 01

  Exactly. About how the proteins in plants, I don't need to take on the animal protein. And I, and it was really, that was a junction in my life as well, where I was getting so confused with people saying, you can't live on the plants, you can't live on the fruit and veg, you're eating too much of that stuff. You need to get some red meat inside and iron and all this. And I said, and I was getting really confused with it. I was thinking, I wanna, please can I make my life simple? We're getting bombarded with social media. I'm trying to run a business. I've got challenges. I'm trying to do deals with brands. You know, I'm spinning as many plates as I can and hoping that they're not going to fall to the floor. And then there's the big thing, which is fundamental in everything is food and nutrition. And I thought, oh God, I'm getting a real headache with all of this. And then,

• 1:52:51Speaker 01

  you know, I actually listened to, to the podcast and so many things made sense, which I'd done in my life from a kid about, you know, eating the way I had. Um, about actually the health benefits, about how the fuel is burnt in the body, about the, uh, uh, you know, sort of reversing diseases and not adding to the, uh, to the potential of, of, of developing these diseases and cancers later on. And, and I came away and went, oh, oh geez, this is so easy now. And I cut out the, the dairy, I cut out, uh, meat. And it was such an easy decision because it felt so good and so clean and so pure. The only ingredient I was missing was someone to tell me that I didn't need the proteins from the animal products because the plants,

• 1:53:34Speaker 01

  you know, the way it's synthesized, if you have a good whole food diet, then you can get that, that protein from the plants. And, and I, you know, as I say, I, I, I didn't have that up until that point. So, and it's been a real, it's been a great journey, but I mean, I've always had that healthy outlook and now I'm on this level. And it hasn't, really, really hasn't felt, I haven't felt better, any better. Um, I haven't felt, um, you know, up until that point, I'd say I was getting confused. And then now, as soon as I'd made the decision, hey, this is what I'm gonna do. Ah, it just felt so good because my mind didn't have something to worry about like, oh, I'm thinking about something else and I should be doing something.

• 1:54:10Rich Roll?

  Once again, the decision fatigue is removed. But, but, but where the rubber meets the road is how do you feel? Like, how is it working? Like, how do you feel on the bike? How do you feel like your power is? How are your climbing legs? Do you notice a difference or, you know, any of that?

• 1:54:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I straight away just from um from cutting out the, I mean, as I say, I really was, I classed myself vegetarian. I had a a little bit of fish in my diet, but it was it was just to keep people happy. It was like, yeah, okay, I have some fish, no worries, you know, you're all good, you know, it's like, but I didn't.

• 1:54:40Rich Roll?

  You don't strike me as a guy who who takes actions to uh who spends a lot of time worrying about what other people think.

• 1:54:45Speaker 01

  No, not really, but probably my folks, you know, you've got to keep those guys happy. So uh um but yeah, I mean, what, yeah, I just, I just straight away, I think I'm sort of testament to how much you can push your body through this type of lifestyle. And I mean, I didn't, I didn't ever um go, you know, full bore on on the the sort of drinking side of stuff. And I always lived a healthy life, so I can't just say, hey, this is a paradigm shift. This is what it is. I've always lived healthily. Um I've always respected my body for that.

• 1:55:15Rich Roll?

  Right, it wasn't like you were eating McDonald's before.

• 1:55:17Speaker 01

  No, so I don't have a definite like, oh, I feel so much better because I've I've made a massive change. I've literally cut a couple of things out. But now it makes my mind feel so much better. It makes me feel better as an individual from an ethical point of view. It makes me uh, you know, really, you know, there's so many great stuff which we can cook up and and and just make life so much simpler. And with the challenge, I mean, I really, I lived on uh the sort of rice wraps which we made, um coconut water and a little bit of cereal, um just trying to think back, a lot of water and I mean, I got to the end, I had no stomach issues, no GI issues, zero, zero, zero, zero. And it was like this, and I know for a fact that if I'd had a bunch of gels and stuff like that.

• 1:55:58Rich Roll?

  Oh, you'd be throwing up like crazy. There's no way.

• 1:56:00Speaker 01

  It's it's game over after.

• 1:56:01Rich Roll?

  This is so funny when people say, oh, I was doing great in my Ironman until this, that, and I couldn't stop throwing up. And it's like, hey, you had thirty gels and.

• 1:56:09Speaker 01

  The thing is with that, that makes me laugh a lot because, I mean, I shouldn't laugh, but break it down again, if you, you know, you were talking about if someone came to you and said, hey, how can you get to your goal? You want to take the step forward? And you sort of say, straight away, marketing, marketing is so powerful. It's like, you need to have the gels and the Gatorade and this and that and the other. But if you break it down, okay, those things are made for fast, short exertions and the pros, the pros are that much more efficient, so they're going to take that much less. And then they're not out there.

• 1:56:35Rich Roll?

  They're also pinning it. They're at their, they're, they're, they're at threshold for that amount of time. It's a different situation.

• 1:56:41Speaker 01

  And then you go, okay, well, what someone's gonna be out there sixteen hours, maybe, or maybe more. And they're gonna be bunging them in every twenty minutes. It's like, God, you just can't be done. So. I was, even on the recon, we, we played around with rice and chickpeas and bung a few nuts in and just tried to keep it as as easy as possible. And there was not one moment where I just thought I'm lacking something. And I think the the amazing thing is also from a palatable point of view, it was just like, I was still wanting. Up until actually where about forty plus hours in, that's the moment where I'm like, now I feel totally in control. That's where, and then I don't even feel hungry. Probably because I've taken on, you know, I'm regularly feeding.

• 1:57:21Speaker 01

  And then it's just the whole body and mind for me is just completely in sync. And I just think if you're if you're really, really, really pushing the boundaries, then certainly clean living, I've, I've felt from the, the whole plant powered way of living the last year, I've really never felt, never felt better. Although, you know, full disclosure to, to your listeners, I did some, the first time ever, I did some, some blood tests just before the road to Mont Blanc, because I was feeling really stressed out. And, you know, I just wasn't myself. I was just like, what's going on? My, I can't cope with the simple tasks. I was just, the business was, was a lot of work to be done. There's a lot of training to be done.

• 1:58:03Speaker 01

  And, you know, the, I can't really, I mean, I've, I've made a few adjustments. I've upped, you know, fat intake. I was always like, oh, fat is the enemy still. And, you know, so really, really looking at the healthy fats, the omegas, the nuts, the seeds, the nut butters, I've, I've upped a lot in my diet. And the thing is, the results I got back were taken when I was at the absolute extreme part of my training. So, I know.

• 1:58:27Rich Roll?

  You depleted, like, what did it show?

• 1:58:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it just said like, you know, high cortisol level, lower testosterone. And it, and it was all based around.

• 1:58:34Rich Roll?

  Fatigue.

• 1:58:35Speaker 01

  Fatigue. But the thing is, of course, I'm, I'm in the last big block of my training. I was riding thirty five hours a week, training thirty five hours a week, even slightly more on the really big week, still working a hundred percent. You know, we run a business. We can't just say, hey, I'm out a week. We run a business. I mean, and I said, yeah, okay, those results, if you look at them, you'll go, wow, you need to do this and you need to eat some of that. But hey, I was absolutely stripping my body. I was trying to get to a certain weight for the challenge. So you're putting so much stress on everything. So I can't take that as a, you know, as a fair synopsis of my being. And I feel much, you know, after that, you know, the training backed off and the stress levels came back to where they should be.

• 1:59:17Speaker 01

  But, you know, I would just, I just think really it all comes down to diets in general. It's kind of, it should be simple, but there's so many, so much conflicting research out there now. That if you want to eat paleo, you'll find something which says it's the best diet. If you want to eat plant powered, you'll find something says it's best diet. If you want to eat junk food, you'll find something somewhere which says, hey, this is great. But, you know, it's like you have to, for me, it was a case of what feels right for me. And that was always the healthy side. And now I feel even better just purely because, you know, I know that I can nourish my body. You still have to pay attention to it, but there's just such good quality, clean food out there.

• 2:00:03Speaker 01

  And it's getting more and more accepted as well. And you look at the ethical side of it and say, I want to enjoy the planet. I want to enjoy the world. I don't want to strip it bare. That's a selfish attitude for me.

• 2:00:13Speaker 01

  But it starts with the individual because you can't just tell someone do this. Because as soon as they feel like they're on a regime, it's not going to work.

• 2:00:21Rich Roll?

  No, of course not. I mean, you definitely can't do that. But I think it is, you touched on something that's really important to footnote, which is there are a lot of people who I think would be keen on it, but they believe they're under the impression that if they do it, their health is going to suffer. Right? Like, oh, I would do that. But like, if I do that, I'm going to be unhealthy. So I'm unwilling to do that. So to come to a place of realization that you're not actually sacrificing your health. And that someone like yourself could go and do these crazy challenges that you've done eating this way. And you look perfectly fine right now. You're breathing.

• 2:00:56Speaker 01

  I feel good. I feel great.

• 2:01:00Rich Roll?

  Is like, oh, wow, okay. I don't have to sacrifice that and I can do this thing that that tastes good and it's more sustainable for the planet. It's more, you know, it just, I don't know, but it's a personal thing, right? Does it agree with you?

• 2:01:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think there's also the the aspect from my situation. I mean, we're all a product of of what we're told in the media and we're preached to for many years. And I always looked at it and said, you know, marketing, I've come from a marketing background now and, you know, the message which you can convey to someone lives with them. And for years and years and years, it was like you need X amount of protein, you need to get it from these sources, um, you know, you need to drink calcium and milk for your bones. And when you actually delve into it, it's like it's, there's so much stuff is said because, hey, you know what, who's saying it?

• 2:01:45Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 2:01:46Speaker 01

  Why are they saying it?

• 2:01:47Rich Roll?

  Why are they saying it?

• 2:01:48Speaker 01

  And like, they're saying it because, you know, they need to keep industries alive. And is it really good for us? Okay, it is good for us because that person's saying it's good for us, but no, is it really good for you? And then you have to, that's where the education side comes in. And as I say, uh, the internet is a, it's a hard place to navigate to find the answers. So you have to believe in what you're doing.

• 2:02:05Rich Roll?

  You can find support for everything there.

• 2:02:07Speaker 01

  Everything.

• 2:02:08Rich Roll?

  So it's not just about educating yourself to be able to read a nutrition label. You have to learn how to read beyond the label, behind the label.

• 2:02:14Speaker 01

  But then also.

• 2:02:15Rich Roll?

  And who has the time for that?

• 2:02:16Speaker 01

  Not, no one, yeah.

• 2:02:17Rich Roll?

  You know, like, so, yeah.

• 2:02:18Speaker 01

  But I mean, I would say that the the most important thing is do and and try, try it for yourself, um, see how you feel and adjust accordingly and like, based on your own experiences, you know, turn the computer off, flip the laptop screen down and just like, hey, go in with an open, open mind and just say, let's go and see how this feels. And, you know, there's plenty of people who are, uh, living on a, a, a clean, whole food diet, like, uh, plant powered like this, which are doing incredible things. And, you know, you'd look at them and say, God, I mean, I just look at, I look at, you know, some of the things which I've achieved and I think, there's no way, there's zero, zero way, but your body is such an amazing thing that you put the right fuel in, you

• 2:03:00Speaker 01

  put the clean fuel in and, you know, it's always a joke that, uh, you know, I go to, I mean, we went, uh, yeah, we went out to some friends a couple of nights ago here, which we met and took them. Bottle of wine over to, to, you know, be the perfect, perfect guest sort of thing. And I go into the supermarket and it's like, yeah, have your ID and that. And I'm thinking, I'm thirty five years old. Like, I mean, you know, you put good stuff in, you, you probably, you know, you're out in the fresh air a lot then, you know, these things all pay off. So I think, you know, it starts with, everything starts with what you put in your mouth. And, you know, from your mental wellbeing to your physical wellbeing and it's fueling correctly. But very importantly, finding what, what fuel system works for you and, and, you know, what you really believe in. And then try it and see.

• 2:03:43Rich Roll?

  Couldn't, couldn't say it better myself. Are you, uh, how's it, how's it go over in the south of England?

• 2:03:49Speaker 01

  Well, it's a lot harder. I mean, we've been out here for the last week. And, you know, we, we generally, we cook at home. We just cook at home because it's, it's difficult. We're, we're definitely, certainly if you're in London, you can basically get anything. It's not a problem, but we're, we're an hour, hour and a half out of London. And, you know, the local pubs and whatever bars, they're not geared up for any of this. That, you know, you might find a vegetarian option, but then it's got a bunch of cheese on and this and that. And you just end up being the problem, problem child. And, you know, it's not, it's not, you don't want to inflict that, that, that on to anyone.

• 2:04:19Rich Roll?

  That doesn't go culturally, that's not going over.

• 2:04:21Speaker 01

  No, so we, we, we really simply, really cleanly. And, you know, I start the day, you know, just like, like anyone else, you know, the smoothies, the blend, blend it all up. And, you know, bung everything in the fridge in there, get a load of green in there. And, uh, yeah, and just start the day good. And, you know, just simple stuff, fruits, vegetables and cook some good stuff up, quinoa and, yeah, a bit of rice occasionally. But I, that was again, from my background, quite interestingly, you know, I, I never ate like a load, a load of the, you know, pastas and this and that. I was always like, because it was like, hey, let's do it with the fruit and veg, the high water content, the nutrient dense. You know, nuts and seeds came later when I learned a bit more about how healthy these, these fats are and how essential they are.

• 2:05:04Speaker 01

  But, you know, I was a kid and it's like, you know, and it was, I'm just a pure product of experimentation of like.

• 2:05:09Rich Roll?

  You, you wanted that Tour de France physique.

• 2:05:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I needed the, yeah, exactly. I needed the emaciated look. But, uh, it's all good. No, I'd say, you know, just go and experience it and. And see what works for you. And I'm, I'm pretty sure that you'll be amazed if you get the, the mind and the body right and the, and the food right, then it's incredible what you can achieve.

• 2:05:28Rich Roll?

  Game is on.

• 2:05:29Speaker 01

  Game is on.

• 2:05:30Rich Roll?

  I love how you're staying here in Westlake and you're literally right next door to Joy Cafe.

• 2:05:36Speaker 01

  It's amazing.

• 2:05:37Rich Roll?

  More than a few meals there.

• 2:05:39Speaker 01

  Man, it was so good.

• 2:05:40Rich Roll?

  Good, right?

• 2:05:41Speaker 01

  We've been here for three years, couple of years with Cannondale, launching the team here. And then this year, we just came back because we, we really liked the place. And obviously Joy's just opened and heard about on the podcast. I thought, hey, I'm gonna have to go down there and check it out. And they do, I mean, it's, it's a, it's a whole, yeah, new, new area. Hopefully it's just gonna spread and people, more people are gonna get involved and join the, join the whole message and enjoy the food. And yeah, it's incredible.

• 2:06:07Rich Roll?

  No doubt. That's what's happening. All right, man. Well, we gotta, we gotta close it down.

• 2:06:10Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 2:06:11Rich Roll?

  That was awesome. Thank you.

• 2:06:12Speaker 01

  I appreciate it. Thanks for the time.

• 2:06:14Rich Roll?

  Yeah, thank you. And you guys are off to New York shortly, right?

• 2:06:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're gonna shoot off there a couple of days' time. So we've got Cannondale launch. So stay tuned for that. They've got a new Cannondale Garmin team, which is gonna be exciting.

• 2:06:27Rich Roll?

  They're gonna be unveiling a new bike?

• 2:06:29Speaker 01

  Not at the launch, but a new race bike, probably Cullaway and Kit. And yeah, they're gonna, those guys are gonna be ripping out for the season. So I get to see loads of our hard work up on the big screen, which is gonna be fulfilling. And so it's gonna be good.

• 2:06:43Rich Roll?

  That's cool. And what else do you have coming up? Do you have any public speaking engagements or new challenges that you're mulling about?

• 2:06:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're, actually, at the launch, it's funny how the, the whole cycling world's so small. So Mavic, obviously, one of the brands which we work with, they also sponsor the Cannondale team. So I'll meet up with those guys in New York and we'll all sit down and we'll start planning. We've got a few ideas. I mean, I would like to certainly progress everything which we've done, co-collectively wise, look at different regions, maybe we can get out here and sort of tap into a little bit of the US. And I've got a little bit of an inkling and a little bit of an idea for something in the Rockies. I like altitude and gravel. And that really starts getting really out in the unknown then. So maybe something out there and

• 2:07:28Rich Roll?

  Interesting.

• 2:07:28Speaker 01

  Just keeping it real.

• 2:07:30Rich Roll?

  All right. I love it, man. Well, if you do, you're gonna have to come back on and tell me all about it.

• 2:07:35Speaker 01

  For sure. Hundred percent. I say, just say, you know, thanks, thanks so much for the opportunity. It's been, it's been fascinating to see your journey and learn a little bit about what you've done. And, and just, it does feel very surreal, actually. Being sat here now, just knowing, you know, what you've been through and applaud you for the courage it's taken to make the steps in your life to make a change and then ultimately, you know, make a very positive change to so many thousands of people around the world. I think it's, you know, respect.

• 2:08:06Rich Roll?

  Thanks, man. I appreciate that very much. I should have you back for a private podcast chat on, to tap into your marketing expertise.

• 2:08:13Speaker 01

  Let's do it.

• 2:08:14Rich Roll?

  Tell me what I should be doing.

• 2:08:15Speaker 01

  No, I'm always happy to help. It's like you helped me a lot, so always happy, no problem whatsoever.

• 2:08:21Rich Roll?

  Very cool, man. All right, great. Well, if you're digging on Mike, the best way to learn more about him is to go to his website, MikeCoty.com, C-O-T-T-Y, yeah. And you're on Twitter at CotyDale.

• 2:08:34Speaker 01

  That's the one. I mean, everything's pretty much into links.

• 2:08:37Rich Roll?

  It's easy to find.

• 2:08:38Speaker 01

  So you can find, if you like anything which we do, you'll find me somewhere, just, you know, Mike Cotty, CotyDale, or, yeah, thecoalcollective.com.

• 2:08:45Rich Roll?

  Right. And the Col Collective, because I'll describe it when I do the introduction, but we didn't get into, you know, the full detail of it, but Col Collective, C-O-L-Elective.com, coal means climb.

• 2:08:58Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:08:58Rich Roll?

  And it's a series of videos where Mike literally walks you through what it's like to experience climbing these amazing mountains that you see when you watch the Tour de France across the Alps, the Pyrenees, and the Dolomites. And it's beautiful. And I love the latest one that you just put up, where you have this experience with the sheep herder, and you have this little moment with him. You really get a sense of like, what it's like to really be on these beautiful mountains. I mean, the landscapes are just extraordinary. And so you have the kind of scenic aspect of it, but you also say, here's what you want to bear in mind if you're going to be riding up this mountain for the next, you know, 20 kilometers at an 8.9% grade or whatever.

• 2:09:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, just look at, keep your eyes open and that's, as I said, I think we said and touched on it earlier, it's like such an important part. I didn't want to just produce content which was like just, just the education side, this is where it gets hard. It was like, and the, the last video which we just put out, it was a, it was, it was a rainy day, it was one of the only rainy days we had and we were all like, ah, how are we gonna make this look inspirational? And suddenly we had this, this moment, we had a, with a, with a shepherd on the Passajal, which was just probably the best moment. I actually summed it up as the best moment of last year. Um, as I got to the end of 2014, I looked back and said, what was my highlight? And it was like the hu- the humble moment of just five minutes with a shepherd and actually understanding what they go through and they are the king of the mountain. Not, we're not, we're just enjoying a little bit of their space.

• 2:10:23Rich Roll?

  And that guy was the real deal.

• 2:10:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. We, we, we saw shepherds from afar on our travels and our filming and they're really, they're like enigmas and I, and we, we would spend hours driving from one mountain range to the next, like, how does a shepherd's life actually work? I don't understand it. How do they, how do they feed themselves? Hey, they've got a load of sheep.

• 2:10:41Rich Roll?

  Where are they sleeping?

• 2:10:42Speaker 01

  Where do they sleep? And it turned out, and our videographer's Italian, so he managed us to strike a conversation up with this, this shepherd and, and they have a four by four, there's two of them, one walks, they walk from the Dolomites to Slovenia, Dolomites in the summer, Slovenia in the winter when it's, when it's colder. And they just walk across the fields and they keep moving the sheep all year long, 365 days a year. Um, and one's driving and then they rotate and then they'll drop into a village or a town and they're really treated well. So if they go to a bar, they'll get, you know, they'll get some concession, they get free food or whatever. And, but what struck me was, it was really, really like, that was a moment where I could see in his face, he was really glowing, like, I shook his hand, I saw his, the look in his eyes was like, oh my God,

• 2:11:26Speaker 01

  this is real. This is a real mountain person. And like, we looked at the video and I just kept looking like, he's really, he's really proud, he's happy. And I'm like, and I thought, it's really sad because he's never gonna see this video. He just, he doesn't know Facebook, Twitter.

• 2:11:40Rich Roll?

  He's not, uh, he's not out, you know, on his iPhone.

• 2:11:42Speaker 01

  He's not gonna go, ah, yeah, let's Instagram that moment.

• 2:11:45Rich Roll?

  The coalcollective.com.

• 2:11:47Speaker 01

  There it is. But it was just. And we sort of got back afterwards and said, wow, that's just, hopefully people appreciate it because they're the moments which I just want to bring to life in the mountains. They're the proper special moments. So hey, if you like it, check it out.

• 2:12:02Rich Roll?

  It's a beautiful thing. All right, man, you want to take us out? You know, you know how to take us out here, right?

• 2:12:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 2:12:07Rich Roll?

  All right, let's go for it.

• 2:12:08Speaker 01

  Peace. Plants.

• 2:12:13Rich Roll?

  All right, we did it. Good guy, right? I mean, Mike's just one of those guys. He's like one of those guys that just, he gets stuff done. He does what he says he's going to do. He's not afraid to follow his passion. And I think we can all learn from that and find little nuggets to incorporate into our own life. So I hope you enjoyed it. I dug it. I thought it was cool. For all your plant power provisions, go to richroll.com. We got new T-shirts. I got the plant power license plate T-shirts there. We got the tech tees for running. We got nutritional products. We got digital products. We got our meditation program, blah, blah, blah, tons of great stuff. So check that out. Don't forget to subscribe to my newsletter for a free seven recipe download and to stay

• 2:12:58Rich Roll?

  clued in as to what's what. Hit us up with a review on iTunes. Send me your questions for future Q and A podcasts. Production and audio engineering and music and sound design for today's show was done by Tyler Pyatt. Thanks, Ty. Additional production and editorial support by Chris Swan and graphic art, as always, by the very talented Sean Patterson. Thank you, guys, and I will see you next week. Peace. Plants. I'm going to go run in the slush and the snow right now.