#295 Samuel Reineberg - First-Hand Account of the Old Dominion Terrorist Attack

Prior-enlisted in the U. S. Army, he began his military career as an 88K (Watercraft Operator) at Fort Eustis, Virginia, where he served aboard the Logistics Support Vessel (LSV-5) and later became the first Leading Seaman of the Maneuver Support Vessel Light (MSVL). In 2023, he was selected for a Division Commander’s Green to Gold scholarship, transitioning to become an Army Officer candidate. He is currently a Leadership Science major at Old Dominion University and a senior in the Army ROTC program, with plans to commission as an Active Duty Second Lieutenant this May. Most recently, he was recognized by the Secretary of the Army and the Sergeant Major of the Army for the actions he and his peers took in response to the attack at Old Dominion University. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: Get 20% off Rho Nutrition Liposomal NAD+ for clean, sustained energy and sharper focus—visit https://rhonutrition.com/discount/SRS and use code SRS for your discount. Make the switch to Sundays. Go right now to https://sundaysfordogs.com/SRS50 and get 50% off your first order. Or, you can use code SRS50 at checkout. That’s 50% off your first order at sundaysfordogs.com/SRS50. Get firearm security redesigned and save 10% off at StopBoxUSA with code SRS at https://stopboxusa.com/srs #stopboxpod Get 20% off sitewide at https://helixsleep.com/SRS and enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you! Go right now to https://hillsdale.edu/SRS to enroll in Hillsdale College’s free “Classical Logic and Rhetoric” online course. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:05Shawn Ryan?

  Sam Reineberg, welcome to the show, man.

• 1:08Speaker 03

  Thanks, Sean.

• 1:09Shawn Ryan?

  How are you doing?

• 1:11Speaker 03

  I'm good, really good. Really happy to be here.

• 1:14Shawn Ryan?

  Well, it's an honor to have you here. Been through it this month.

• 1:20Speaker 03

  It's been a month.

• 1:21Shawn Ryan?

  I'll bet it has.

• 1:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24Shawn Ryan?

  I'll bet it has.

• 1:25Speaker 03

  It's been up and down.

• 1:29Speaker 03

  But through everything,

• 1:34Speaker 03

  I'm still grateful.

• 1:38Shawn Ryan?

  You seem good.

• 1:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, amazing time being here. Even before I got here,

• 1:47Speaker 03

  been active, doing things, staying outside.

• 1:52Shawn Ryan?

  Keeping yourself busy?

• 1:53Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, you have to. I mean, you just...

• 1:59Speaker 03

  When I've not been busy, it's when my mind gets busy. You know.

• 2:04Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, I do. I do. Let me give you an introduction here. You ready? Sam Reineberg, prior enlisted US Army soldier, eighty-eight kilo watercraft operator from Fort Eustis, Virginia. Served aboard the logistics support vessel LSV V, first leading seaman of the maneuver support vessel light MSVL. Earned a division commander's green to gold scholarship in 2023. Leadership, science major at Old Dominion University, senior in the Army Reserve Officers Training Corps ROTC program, commissioning as an active

• 2:43Shawn Ryan?

  duty second lieutenant this May. You're here to talk about what happened on March 12th. You received a meritorious service medal for your actions at Old Dominion University on March 12th, which is being upgraded, correct?

• 2:58Speaker 03

  That's correct. Soldier's Medal.

• 3:00Shawn Ryan?

  To a soldier's medal. Congratulations.

• 3:03Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 3:04Shawn Ryan?

  Do you mind if I read your citation?

• 3:06Speaker 03

  Not at all.

• 3:11Shawn Ryan?

  Cadet Samuel D. Reineberg, for exceptionally heroic actions while serving as a cadet at the Old Dominion University while responding to an active shooter incident and life-threatening emergency on 12 March 2026. In the face of extraordinary danger and with total disregard to his own personal safety, Cadet Reineberg displayed incredible courage under extreme circumstances. His selfless service and personal courage are in keeping with the finest traditions of military service and reflect great credit on him in the United States Army this day, this 21st day of March 2026.

• 3:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:00Speaker 03

  That was at the funeral.

• 4:01Shawn Ryan?

  That was at the funeral they gave that to you?

• 4:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, they uh.

• 4:08Speaker 03

  Um, they had a small ceremony, uh, prior to the beginning of the funeral that day. The, uh, SIR major of the Army and the Secretary of the Army, uh, put that on me.

• 4:20Shawn Ryan?

  How'd that feel?

• 4:25Speaker 03

  Ah, it's indifferent. It's it's great to have them there, to be present, like, having those leaders present.

• 4:37Speaker 03

  But in the moment,

• 4:40Speaker 03

  standing there in front of a bunch of people I know and don't know, and to my right was the, uh, the family of Colonel Shaw.

• 4:57Speaker 03

  That is, I never had a feeling like that, um,

• 5:05Speaker 03

  because of getting a medal put on me, but the end result,

• 5:10Speaker 03

  uh, that I really take some really responsive, a lot of responsibility for.

• 5:19Speaker 03

  Colonel Shaw didn't make it.

• 5:24Speaker 03

  You take responsibility for that? Not, no, but like, just how it happened, it was like I was working on him. I don't know how, if it's survivor's guilt, but

• 5:38Speaker 03

  yeah. You were working on him? Trying to revive him? Not revive him, uh, keep him alive, stop the bleeding.

• 5:47Speaker 03

  Um,

• 5:50Speaker 03

  yeah, get him out of there.

• 5:54Speaker 03

  So, the family, just seeing the family. Um, and then after the Star Major of the Army and Secretary of the Army, like, said their words about

• 6:07Speaker 03

  that day, uh, the family came up to me, uh, the cousins, the aunts, the uncles.

• 6:18Speaker 03

  And I'm standing there in my, my, my dress uniform.

• 6:24Speaker 03

  And

• 6:28Speaker 03

  they're saying, they're saying thank you to me. They're thanking me.

• 6:35Speaker 03

  And I am only able to respond with, I'm so sorry, because that's just how I've, you know, it's just, I can't even imagine. Cause I'm having a hard time. I can't imagine them, you know, giving me hugs, telling me thank you.

• 6:53Speaker 03

  And it wasn't just me, it was the other five of us, six of us that were up there.

• 7:00Speaker 03

  Them going through the same thing with the, the team.

• 7:05Speaker 03

  There was eight of you in total, correct? Um,

• 7:10Speaker 03

  it will, there was one that was shot that had ran on foot after she was shot in the leg. Um, so that minus that, that one, uh, leaves seven?

• 7:33Speaker 03

  Or six? Six. Like we got awarded. Um, the one guy who got awarded, he actually had his awards, his Purple Heart and his Meritorious Service Medal given to him at his, in his hospital room. Shit. By the Secretary of the Army and the Star Major of the Army. Are you close with the other guys? Oh yeah, especially now. I'll bet. Especially now. Uh,

• 7:59Speaker 03

  yeah, the team. How are they doing? I think they're good. Uh, for the most part. Um, I'm sure it's pretty similar to my experience. Uh, it comes and goes in terms of like thinking about it, not thinking about it. Um, but I've seen all of them.

• 8:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're in good spirits.

• 8:27Shawn Ryan?

  Good, good.

• 8:28Speaker 03

  All of them.

• 8:30Shawn Ryan?

  That's great to hear.

• 8:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, even even the one that was hit in the stomach.

• 8:35Shawn Ryan?

  Is he out of the hospital?

• 8:36Speaker 03

  Out of the hospital. Um, yeah, out of the hospital. Completed the surgeries. He's good.

• 8:45Shawn Ryan?

  I know he was gonna come today, but he can't fly.

• 8:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, he was gonna come. I really wish he could have came.

• 8:50Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I, uh, I mean, I don't know if I got that to you guys, but you have an open invite, so whenever he is able to fly, he let us know. We will fly you up here and do whatever the fuck you want at the studio, so.

• 9:05Speaker 03

  That was, that was what he, that was, that is what he wanted to do. He just wanted to hang out with you. Shoot, shoot the shit, do whatever, you know, just the experience. And when I told him, I was like, hey, there's this opportunity, like, you wanna go?

• 9:26Speaker 03

  He was in his hospital bed when I told him and he was like, like, it was like night and day, the energy change. Yeah.

• 9:38Shawn Ryan?

  That's cool, man.

• 9:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 9:40Shawn Ryan?

  Well, when he's up to speed, up to par.

• 9:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:44Shawn Ryan?

  We'll get you guys back up here.

• 9:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I don't even, I haven't even asked him about recovery yet. I just happy to see him.

• 9:51Shawn Ryan?

  Right on, right on, man. Well, look, before we get too heavy here, and it's already pretty heavy, got you a gift.

• 10:00Shawn Ryan?

  You know, everybody gets a gift.

• 10:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:02Shawn Ryan?

  So.

• 10:04Speaker 03

  Sweet.

• 10:06Shawn Ryan?

  Vigilance sleep, gummy bears, made in the USA, legal in all 50 states, but I actually got you a better gift.

• 10:13Speaker 03

  What?

• 10:13Shawn Ryan?

  So, you know.

• 10:16Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, oh my, you told me about your everyday carrier earlier.

• 10:20Speaker 03

  I do.

• 10:21Shawn Ryan?

  What is it?

• 10:22Speaker 03

  It's a Palmetto State Armory, uh, dagger compact with it's a green sniper green.

• 10:29Shawn Ryan?

  Nice.

• 10:30Speaker 03

  It's a, it's pretty big everyday.

• 10:32Shawn Ryan?

  Is it?

• 10:33Speaker 03

  It's a pretty big everyday carry, not gonna lie. It is pretty, it's pretty fat. Um, but it works.

• 10:38Shawn Ryan?

  Hey, if it works, that's all that matters, right?

• 10:41Speaker 03

  It works ish.

• 10:42Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I want to give you a little upgrade. So, you know, I got a buddy over at Sig, his name's Jason. And, uh, I told him you were coming on today and

• 10:51Speaker 03

  Oh my God.

• 10:52Shawn Ryan?

  I don't think any guest I've ever had deserves a everyday carry gun as much as you.

• 11:00Speaker 03

  Oh gosh, thank you.

• 11:02Shawn Ryan?

  Let me know what you think.

• 11:03Speaker 03

  Let me look at it. Oh God, I'm

• 11:08Speaker 03

  It means a lot.

• 11:09Shawn Ryan?

  Hey, I want to take a look at it first. It might be a downgrade.

• 11:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm trying to.

• 11:17Speaker 03

  Holy crap. Yeah.

• 11:22Speaker 03

  The flared magwell too.

• 11:23Shawn Ryan?

  Hold it up. What do you think?

• 11:25Speaker 03

  The flared magwell. Oh my God, but the

• 11:29Shawn Ryan?

  All metal. That's the three sixty-five Legion by Sig Sauer. It's got their brand new, uh, optics up top. It's got the ported, um, slide there is to help with muzzle flip and recoil. It's got the flared out magwell, like you had already said, it's all metal, no polymer. Thing is a fucking beast.

• 11:52Speaker 03

  I'm just glad the barrel's not threaded.

• 11:55Speaker 03

  Virginia's changing the laws.

• 11:57Shawn Ryan?

  Oh yeah, I forgot. They are changing it.

• 11:59Speaker 03

  They're changing them. All my guns are threaded besides my shotgun and my bolt action.

• 12:04Shawn Ryan?

  Well, there you go.

• 12:06Speaker 03

  And

• 12:06Shawn Ryan?

  Totally legal in Virginia.

• 12:08Speaker 03

  Yes, I thank God. I also got you a gift.

• 12:12Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, I love gifts.

• 12:13Speaker 03

  This is From the maneuver support vessel light, the newest uh, class of army vessel first to be developed in 30 years.

• 12:24Shawn Ryan?

  No shit.

• 12:25Speaker 03

  Swear to God.

• 12:25Shawn Ryan?

  Dude, this is cool. You know what's crazy? The army has more boats than the Navy. Did you know that?

• 12:31Speaker 03

  I, yes.

• 12:32Shawn Ryan?

  And the Navy has more planes than the air force.

• 12:34Speaker 03

  Yes, um, but the Navy's got us beat by tonnage.

• 12:39Shawn Ryan?

  Well, yeah.

• 12:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're, they got some fat, some fat boats, but yeah, that's, uh, that's from the crew over there in Hawaii right now. Um.

• 12:49Shawn Ryan?

  Is this your old, this is, uh, yeah, I've read this off in your intro.

• 12:52Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 12:52Shawn Ryan?

  This is it.

• 12:53Speaker 03

  That's it. That was, uh, that was my last assignment before I went, uh, to school, back to school.

• 12:57Shawn Ryan?

  Man, I'll wear it proudly.

• 12:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, they would, uh, the, the, the crew knows some was giving it to you and they're like, no freaking way.

• 13:05Shawn Ryan?

  Perfect, yeah. Cool. Wear it for the interview.

• 13:11Shawn Ryan?

  So we got here.

• 13:14Shawn Ryan?

  Fitz.

• 13:15Speaker 03

  Holy smokes.

• 13:16Shawn Ryan?

  All right, man. You ready to dive into this?

• 13:19Speaker 03

  I'm ready, yeah.

• 13:20Shawn Ryan?

  Cool.

• 13:22Shawn Ryan?

  Well, let's start with, so you were in the army and then at some point you decided to go officer, which is a huge fucking mistake, but we could talk about that later.

• 13:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's, it's, it's been a wild ride.

• 13:38Shawn Ryan?

  I see that.

• 13:39Speaker 03

  Um, but yeah, I was in the army. Uh, I enlisted out of high school. Uh, 18 year old, did like early enlistment, 17 year old, uh, but I didn't ship off till I was 18. Uh, graduated high school, enlisted as a watercraft operator, like you said. And, um, yeah, my dad was in the army. Um, still in the army.

• 14:05Speaker 03

  Um, I have had uncle in the army.

• 14:10Speaker 03

  It seemed like a good idea at the time. And the watercraft operator, I mean, eighty eight kilo.

• 14:19Speaker 03

  Sun Army Boats, LSV five.

• 14:22Shawn Ryan?

  What are you guys doing on that boat? What's the boat for?

• 14:25Speaker 03

  It's a flat bottom, uh, two hundred and seventy four foot long, flat bottom. Seventy eight, two hundred and seventy eight feet long. They do logistical support.

• 14:37Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 14:37Speaker 03

  They'll put Abrams, whole Abrams company on there. They'll put tons of Conexes or wheeled vehicles, you name it. They'll put it on there and they're able to go, I mean, into unimproved ports.

• 14:54Speaker 03

  They have a big ramp on the front, lowers down. You can drive right in, right off and on.

• 14:58Shawn Ryan?

  Right on.

• 14:59Speaker 03

  Um, really low, uh, shallow draft. So they can drive right up onto a beach if they have to, uh, and just offload whatever kind of assets that's on, on board.

• 15:11Shawn Ryan?

  Right on.

• 15:11Speaker 03

  Um, awesome gig. Like the best. I, it is, it is. It was a really hard going officer over warrant officer because it's the warrant officers that are in charge over there on those boats.

• 15:24Shawn Ryan?

  What is, so where would the boat transit from? Imagine there's some of these in the Strait of Hormuz or.

• 15:30Speaker 03

  Um, yeah, um, to my now or Fort Eustis, Virginia. That's one.

• 15:37Shawn Ryan?

  Is it salt? You go in the ocean?

• 15:39Speaker 03

  They are ocean, the LSVs are ocean going, same as, same with the LCU's, which is like a smaller version of the LSV.

• 15:45Shawn Ryan?

  Would you cross the Atlantic with it?

• 15:47Speaker 03

  Um, they do cross the Atlantic.

• 15:49Shawn Ryan?

  Oh shit.

• 15:49Speaker 03

  They're ocean, they, they, they cross all the time.

• 15:53Shawn Ryan?

  So this is like a container ship.

• 15:55Speaker 03

  In a way.

• 15:56Shawn Ryan?

  Container ship.

• 15:57Speaker 03

  In a.

• 15:57Shawn Ryan?

  That's a lot more maneuverable and can offload and.

• 16:01Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 16:01Shawn Ryan?

  Ports, as you said.

• 16:02Speaker 03

  Yes, yes. Um, they, yeah, they, uh.

• 16:09Speaker 03

  Very versatile, very versatile. Uh, also in Hawaii and Japan. And prior to, I guess a month or two ago, uh, no, no activity in the Middle East. They had all come back to, they had all got, uh, rehomed to different ports stateside. Um, but they were,

• 16:33Speaker 03

  uh, I think they left in 2020 out of Kuwait.

• 16:35Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm.

• 16:36Speaker 03

  So, um, and then they came back stateside.

• 16:40Shawn Ryan?

  So what are you gonna do as an officer?

• 16:42Speaker 03

  Be a logistics officer. I got branched, uh, logistics. So.

• 16:46Shawn Ryan?

  You already know before you even graduate?

• 16:48Speaker 03

  I know. I know where I'm going afterwards.

• 16:51Shawn Ryan?

  Are you serious?

• 16:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know. I know my next duty station.

• 16:54Shawn Ryan?

  Holy shit.

• 16:55Speaker 03

  I know. I know my next duty station, the exact unit, everything.

• 17:00Shawn Ryan?

  You wanna say where that is or is that?

• 17:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm going to Schofield Barracks, Hawaii, 25th Infantry.

• 17:05Shawn Ryan?

  Get the fuck out. You're going to Hawaii? Nice.

• 17:08Speaker 03

  I'm really excited. That's, that's been a saving. I found out the day after the, uh, attack, actually.

• 17:14Shawn Ryan?

  The day after the attack?

• 17:16Speaker 03

  The day after the attack, which was the first day of spring break, I found out that I was getting Hawaii.

• 17:22Shawn Ryan?

  Holy shit. That was.

• 17:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's, it's like you can't, you, you can't, you can't make it up.

• 17:32Shawn Ryan?

  That's pretty fucking wild, man.

• 17:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, I found out I was going to Hawaii. I found out that I was gonna be in the 25th. Um.

• 17:39Shawn Ryan?

  How the hell do you even take, I mean, what? That you kill a terrorist, you guys kill a terrorist as a team.

• 17:48Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 17:49Shawn Ryan?

  And then the next day, the army's calling you and telling you.

• 17:53Speaker 03

  The next duty station is. I got an email. Hey, you've got orders in your, in your army account. Look at it. Look at them. So I was like, gosh, okay, let me, let me look at them. It's like, I can't, I was like, what is it? What could it be that's in there? And it's like, hey, here's your, here's your report date. You're going here after your school.

• 18:12Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 18:13Speaker 03

  So, I mean, it's why I'm so excited. That was like, uh, it was hard to celebrate it, but as time has gone on, the last two and a half, three weeks since everything, it's more and more like at the forefront of my mind. Like, hey, I've got, I've got great things to look forward to. I'm still, you know, I'm still getting blessed.

• 18:36Shawn Ryan?

  Good for you, man.

• 18:37Speaker 03

  So, um, very excited.

• 18:41Shawn Ryan?

  Good for you.

• 18:45Shawn Ryan?

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• 21:38Shawn Ryan?

  You ready to talk about the day? March 12?

• 21:41Speaker 03

  Of course, yeah.

• 21:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was a regular day. Regular day in class.

• 21:51Speaker 03

  Started the day off

• 21:55Speaker 03

  at home. I woke up early. We had like the PT on campus. On PT on campus that morning.

• 22:05Speaker 03

  Like a scavenger hunt, like a fun game, kind of, you know, like camaraderie PT session.

• 22:15Speaker 03

  And went back home, got freshened up.

• 22:22Speaker 03

  Had a little breakfast, barely. Barely had any breakfast that day. Really pissed me off because I was like starving the rest of the day. You'll hear why.

• 22:34Speaker 03

  And put on some good clothes, nice civilian clothes that day. We had been dressing in civilian clothes for a few weeks due to like the, like the force protection.

• 22:45Shawn Ryan?

  No shit?

• 22:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:46Shawn Ryan?

  Why? What was, because of the Iran conflict?

• 22:50Speaker 03

  I don't know. Probably. Force protection condition for that had been raised. They just didn't want any ROTC personnel in uniform? I that was that was like. Yeah. I think it was within the local bases as well. Interesting. So it probably was because of the Iran conflict. Maybe. I I just know that I was told to wear civilian clothes. Uh, so I was. That day in class, I was meant to, uh, my, my, my two partners and I, uh, we had a combatant command briefs that day. Um. Each group got to sign a brief or a combatant command to brief on

• 23:32Speaker 03

  uh, in class and we had done the first half that Tuesday. Fast forward to Thursday, we're doing mine. Um.

• 23:43Speaker 03

  Class goes is normal. Uh, I had a I had arrived an hour early to prepare. What class is this? This is the military science class, the senior military science class for the Army ROTC. The Colonel Shaw is teaching? Yes, he is the only teacher. He he teaches the military science class for the seniors. Um, because he he's the he's the senior guy, senior officer.

• 24:09Speaker 03

  And yeah, I got there an hour early.

• 24:15Speaker 03

  Went over my presentation with my group, two partners. And, uh, everybody else in the class kind of starts filling in, coming in. We class started around nine twenty that day. It was a little early, but not not out of the ordinary. Uh,

• 24:35Speaker 03

  and, uh,

• 24:38Speaker 03

  we're all in the classroom.

• 24:41Speaker 03

  And the way the classroom is set up, it's almost like, I was telling your team this, uh, like this room in the way of the dimensions where we're, I'm, we're all facing this way in my facing this direction and Colonel Shaw is standing, he likes to stand behind your chair, right in front of your like, uh, your chest right there next, you're kind of near engine where that's where his desk would be and the entrance to the, the class would be where that door was.

• 25:19Speaker 03

  And the desks are long without gaps in between and there's a walkway on the right, right here. And for some reason that day I chose to sit near the back of the class. I usually like to sit in the front, sat at the back, uh, sat with my, one of my partners would be right there.

• 25:43Speaker 03

  For, you know, visual purposes.

• 25:48Speaker 03

  And we had gotten through our brief, uh, the rest of the teams had gotten through their briefs and we're getting into the part of the class where Colonel Shaw is giving his critique, critiques and his, you know, what he thought was good and is bad.

• 26:04Speaker 03

  And he like, you know, he complimented me that day, actually. Um, he was like, you know, Rhina Berg, one of the most knowledgeable guys. I did my brief on, uh, Transportation Command, be a logistics officer coming from that as an enlisted guy. I thought, why not? But you didn't have enough knowledge to not stand in front of your, uh, in front of your battle, uh, when she was presenting for your group. It's like being, I was standing kind of awkwardly in between the desk and the projector screen, covering up this girl. She's like, probably like, I don't know, four, four ten, four foot eleven.

• 26:40Speaker 03

  So I was like, ah, like he always had like a good, like quick humor with the way he did things. He had good humor with it. Um.

• 26:50Speaker 03

  He's doing the critiques for the rest of the class and uh

• 26:56Speaker 03

  he's about to let us go for the day. He's like, hey, you know, I might not see you guys after spring break. I didn't know why. And um, yeah, so. And then.

• 27:14Speaker 03

  You know. I was like, basically about to be done and uh.

• 27:21Speaker 03

  This guy walks in the room. Now, what's weird about this is the door locks. Door usually locked from the outside. You have to be let in from the inside. And I. I don't remember that very specifically, but uh, one student had gotten a little bit later to class that day, maybe nine twenty-five. And I'm pretty sure that student had to be let in. By Colonel Shaw.

• 27:49Speaker 03

  And then. The class went through. About near to the end and uh.

• 27:57Speaker 03

  This guy walks in.

• 28:00Speaker 03

  Didn't have to be let in.

• 28:03Speaker 03

  It's weird, just a weird detail. I, I, I told that. I gave that uh, in my. Um, statement. Later on. Um.

• 28:17Speaker 03

  So yeah, I'm like.

• 28:18Shawn Ryan?

  The last student just left the door halfway open?

• 28:20Speaker 03

  Ah, no, it was closed. It was closed.

• 28:23Shawn Ryan?

  It was closed?

• 28:24Speaker 03

  The door is closed.

• 28:26Speaker 03

  Door, the door was closed. Now, maybe it was like this much, then I was, I was towards the back. I couldn't see.

• 28:36Speaker 03

  But.

• 28:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. Um.

• 28:42Speaker 03

  So the guy terrorist walks in the room. And uh.

• 28:49Shawn Ryan?

  Mohammed Jalloh. That's his name, right? Is that how you say his last name?

• 28:54Speaker 03

  I don't know. I had never even, I'd never even seen the guy before.

• 28:57Shawn Ryan?

  You'd never seen him?

• 28:58Speaker 03

  Never.

• 28:59Shawn Ryan?

  Had anybody in the classroom ever seen him?

• 29:02Speaker 03

  There were some that thought they had. And some of. Some other cadets in the junior class had thought. Um, they had that, uh, they thought they had seen him. While during the PT hours, early in the morning. Um.

• 29:26Speaker 03

  During like a ruck march. Around campus. Being like, you go, sir, you go, ma'am. Sarcastic.

• 29:35Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm.

• 29:37Shawn Ryan?

  What was he wearing?

• 29:39Speaker 03

  Ah, dark hoodie, dark pants.

• 29:44Speaker 03

  Uh. He had these gloves on. Like wool gloves. Uh.

• 29:54Speaker 03

  He had a beard.

• 29:57Speaker 03

  A longer beard.

• 29:58Shawn Ryan?

  What did he say?

• 30:00Speaker 03

  Well, he walked in a room and he was like, kind of like nervous.

• 30:06Speaker 03

  He's like, is this ROTC or is this seminar?

• 30:11Speaker 03

  And we're all like. Huh? Nobody said anything. He said it again, like, is this ROTC or is this seminar?

• 30:21Speaker 03

  I don't know who it was, but somebody in the front was like. Yeah. Like that, that it was ROTC.

• 30:31Speaker 03

  And, uh, he, soon as that person said, yeah, he drew his gun. Uh, yelled Allah Akbar and started shooting, uh. My professor.

• 30:46Speaker 03

  And uh

• 30:50Speaker 03

  I like I hit the the floor or not the floor but like under like right kind of ducked under the table like oh like oh shit. I ended up apparently like stepping on the girl next to me. Uh she told me that later like uh maybe like a few days actually told me that a few days ago.

• 31:10Speaker 03

  And um I'm back up and the way I'm not thinking about any of this. This is the weird part.

• 31:20Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, did you even realize he was shooting? I've been shot at a lot. Been shot at a point blank distance and it always takes, at least for me, it usually takes a couple of seconds to realize.

• 31:34Speaker 03

  Second.

• 31:34Shawn Ryan?

  Holy shit, this is okay. Yeah, I'm getting fucking shot at.

• 31:38Speaker 03

  It was like a second or two, maybe tops and and then everybody's on the ground screaming.

• 31:48Speaker 03

  And I'm like on my feet running now. I have to clear the the row of the people that are on the ground like trampling them.

• 31:59Speaker 03

  Shaw, Colonel Shaw, he had like was able to kind of like take step forward, some steps forward and kind of grab and pull him in, bear hug him. Is the shooter.

• 32:13Speaker 03

  So he he while being shot at, took steps forward and like bear like bear hugged the shooter while being shot at.

• 32:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:28Speaker 03

  And I had gotten up and was moving right and hooking the left to make it to the front of the class.

• 32:39Speaker 03

  And I see another cadet uh already on top of the shooter.

• 32:45Speaker 03

  With a knife.

• 32:48Speaker 03

  And uh I had yelled, get him.

• 32:54Speaker 03

  On the way there to the front, real like literally the the distance is the same in this room.

• 33:03Speaker 03

  Um as the classroom.

• 33:07Speaker 03

  And uh.

• 33:13Speaker 03

  He uh

• 33:17Speaker 03

  There was one cadet on top already with Shaw, Colonel Shaw. And uh, me and another cadet had arrived at the same time, but he was a row ahead of me. Maybe two rows, a row ahead.

• 33:35Speaker 03

  And um

• 33:39Speaker 03

  And it, it gets kind of, you know, it kind of slows down in my brain thinking about it. Uh, there was like four of us total that

• 33:50Speaker 03

  handled this guy. We were immediately trying to like go for the gun, right? He's like trying to shoot me, he's trying to shoot a friend next to me on my left. Uh, he's just trying to keep shooting and we had our hands on this, I had our hands on the top of the slide of this Glock.

• 34:09Speaker 03

  And uh, as soon as we had the, we're like pinned, we got him pinned in the wall.

• 34:17Speaker 03

  In the front of the class. And

• 34:21Speaker 03

  Um, as soon as we had the gun pointed away from our classmates.

• 34:27Speaker 03

  I had turned around. Like I'm on my knees, I'm turning around while holding the gun. Like wrest- still wrestling with the guy. I turned around and, you know, still screaming and stuff, all that shit's going on and I turn around, I was like So everyone get the hell out of here, everybody run and somebody call 911. Somebody call 911, everyone get the hell out.

• 34:50Speaker 03

  And um My classmates, they remember my face being like the last face they saw apparently, running out of the classroom.

• 35:03Speaker 03

  And it really, you know, freaked them out because they were like I don't even remember them running to be honest, because I was, it's just so much going on so fast. Uh, that maybe after a minute of wrestling with the dude and taking care, taking care of this guy. The, the group of us.

• 35:30Speaker 03

  He finally like let go.

• 35:33Speaker 03

  Um, I mean, he'd been stabbed. He'd been beat. I mean, took an eye out.

• 35:43Speaker 03

  You took an eye out? I did.

• 35:47Speaker 03

  How'd you do it?

• 35:49Speaker 03

  Finger.

• 35:58Speaker 03

  And then one of the other cadet had taken the gun.

• 36:04Speaker 03

  And at this point, after that, after the gun has been, the guy's done, the gun's handled.

• 36:12Speaker 03

  I go, my attention is just all on Colonel Shaw.

• 36:21Speaker 03

  I couldn't care less about terrorists, to be honest.

• 36:28Speaker 03

  But going into the aid now with him, um, he had tried to stand up, like, pretty, pretty quickly. He tried to stand up.

• 36:38Speaker 03

  And

• 36:41Speaker 03

  his, uh, he kind of leaned back into the wall, kind of braced his back into the wall, and then eyes rolled, lights out. Shit. Fell onto the ground. And I like grabbed him by his shirt on the way down, fell kind of with him to stop him in a way. And at that point, I'm going, it's like, it's,

• 37:07Speaker 03

  it's, it's still no thinking, but it's now, it's like, and now it's like, uh, now it's like real, like really, really real.

• 37:18Speaker 03

  And

• 37:22Speaker 03

  You know, this training, I don't know if it's training or it probably is. Because I took the shirt up, his shirt up, and I took his pants down. And, and I'm look, and I'm searching for blood or wounds. And the exit wounds. Yeah, and the blood. And um, he's, he's hitting the leg, upper, upper leg, like high up in the leg. For moral? Yeah, I would say so. And um, just based off, uh, just how much blood there was and it was a Glock 22 caliber.

• 38:05Speaker 03

  Yeah. So at all places, right? It's like, one of the, the least, like the worst place. Yeah.

• 38:17Speaker 03

  And uh, and he's lights out on me, but he's,

• 38:24Speaker 03

  opened his mouth and I pulled the tongue. Uh, made sure he's breathing and then, uh, one of my, one of my battles, gave me his belt, that belt didn't work, it was, had a weird like kinda cinch mech, just wasn't working. You're gonna use it as a tourniquet? Yeah, we're go, we're going into treating, we're trying to stop this blood, it's a lot. And uh, it's like me, it's, it's other guy, other cadet, we're, we pull another belt off of him. His belt's this leather belt, strong, going up, cinching it down.

• 39:06Speaker 03

  And um, at this point, I'm like, I'm having trouble working on him. Because of being into the, pinned against the wall, and it's on his right leg, and he's, his right leg's kinda, it's closest to the wall. So I'm like, somebody get out in the hallway and secure the hallway, because there's more, really wide hallway, like there's more room to work, move, move him and work on him.

• 39:34Speaker 03

  And, um.

• 39:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, so we picked him up. It was like me and this other guy. Picked him up, put him in the hallway. And uh, he like came back for like a minute maybe.

• 39:52Speaker 03

  And he's trying to fight me to get up, like stand up. And I'm like, Brandon, no, man. You can't get up. Like ambulance is coming, like you're gonna be alright. We're gonna get you out of here, man, but you cannot get up. And he didn't really say anything at all. Who is this? This is Brandon. This is Colonel, Colonel Shaw, Brandon. Okay. Um, Brandon Shaw. And uh, cause I'm like, you know, I know his first name and.

• 40:18Speaker 03

  Like, I'm trying to use his first name. Uh.

• 40:24Speaker 03

  So we're waiting on the cops to come. Uh.

• 40:29Speaker 03

  There, uh, maybe a couple more minutes had passed. I'm not sure, but I'm like. Is he coherent? Couldn't tell. Ah, sorta maybe. He, his eyes were wide open. Wide open. Uh.

• 40:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, like he, he had gone lights out, like unconscious, and then come, came back after we'd moved him in the hallway and really cinched that tourniquet on. The, the first belt. Mm-hmm. And then, uh, the first two officers arrive and it's one guy and it's one female, one girl. And she's, uh, she's got a, I see it on her immediately. It's just like, this tourniquet, it's like right on her front of her rig. Um. She kinda just stops, like she's like, oh my god. And I'm like, over top of Colonel Shaw, like this close. Like right here, like, and I look up and I see her and I'm like, give me your tourniquet. Me and my, my buddy who was right next to me, who was like, still like looking after him.

• 41:30Speaker 03

  Uh, we put it on above, even higher up at this point, like just right, right there. Mm-hmm. As high as you can get it? As high as you can get it. That's what you're supposed to do. Cinched it down.

• 41:46Speaker 03

  And the mail, mail officer came back and

• 41:51Speaker 03

  Colonel Shaw went lights out again. And I was like, we need to get him the hell out of here. So

• 42:00Speaker 03

  me, two other cadets and the mail officer. We carried him down two flights of steps out onto the, the front of the building. This is a regular building. This isn't the ROTC building.

• 42:15Speaker 03

  Regular business type classes held in there.

• 42:23Speaker 03

  Right next, right across the street from the football stadium and parking garage. And

• 42:34Speaker 03

  we sit him down and like redoing the tourniquet again, making it even tighter. And I'm, and he comes back again, like, and now this time he's talking, talking.

• 42:48Speaker 03

  He's like talking, he's like, he's like, he's asking, he's like, I need my inhaler, but like choked up in his throat. It's like he needs his inhaler. And I'm on top of him and I, he says that to me and I start screaming at everybody. There's students out at this point, phones out, recording.

• 43:14Speaker 03

  Uh, there's SWAT running past.

• 43:18Speaker 03

  You know, guns blazing. And I'm just screaming for this inhaler.

• 43:25Speaker 03

  And one cadet had ran, tried to go run, find one. And then there's like other cadet, another cadet is like going in and out of the building, making sure that like, cause we had another one, other one that was hit up and still in the room.

• 43:43Speaker 03

  And then the, the police finally, they like, they're with me now. With Colonel Shaw and

• 43:55Speaker 03

  I was like Brandon, we're gonna get you out of here, man. They're right here. The ambulance is right here. We got you, bro. We like, we're gonna get you out. It's gonna be okay, like, and he just was looking at me, eyes wide. He's awake, he's conscious, he's not talking though, and uh.

• 44:14Speaker 03

  And told the police, I was like, hey, like, he's lost a lot of blood.

• 44:20Speaker 03

  Covered in it, like, my shoes. Up from my shoes up to my chest and my hands to my elbow, so I'm both. Soaked, soaked in blood. Yeah.

• 44:40Speaker 03

  And the police took him. And then I was like, kinda like, okay. Now what do I do? Like, I gotta get safe. My phone's gone. I don't know if it was during the fight, or when I was treating him initially in the classroom, but my phone came out of my pocket somehow. And had landed next to the, to the shooter terrorist. They thought it was his phone. The FBI, FBI thought it was his phone, and they were gonna seize my phone, thinking it was his phone.

• 45:15Speaker 03

  Later on, uh.

• 45:18Speaker 03

  But yeah, uh. Got off, got off the spot. And I found some cadets that were like, just dazed, you know? It's like, hey, we're gonna go into this neighborhood and try to like, hide out. For, for a little bit. And then they kinda followed me.

• 45:39Speaker 03

  And then.

• 45:42Speaker 03

  I was like, you know what? Actually, come back. Let's go into the parking garage where we're not in the open. Which was across the street from the building where all this took place, but I just thought in my mind it was the best option to take. You just want a breather? Not even, just like, get safe. You know, I, I was, I don't know, it was like autopilot. Mm-hmm. Um. On the way back to the parking garage. This, uh, this guy comes up to me, uh.

• 46:19Speaker 03

  This guy comes up to me and like I said, I'm covered in blood, like there's blood dripping off my fingers.

• 46:28Speaker 03

  And this guy comes up to me, he's like, hey, I need you to answer some questions.

• 46:34Speaker 03

  Like what? What do you mean?

• 46:38Speaker 03

  He's like, I'm with ODU, I'm an ODU official, I need to answer, I need you to answer some questions.

• 46:44Speaker 03

  I was like,

• 46:47Speaker 03

  let me see some ID, let me see some ID. Cause I'm like, who, who could this guy be? He's like, wearing like a, you know, a business outfit kinda thing, he's got some glasses on. I'm like, alright.

• 47:03Speaker 03

  I, I take his ID from him, look at it, I couldn't even see what it said because I'm like, my vision's kinda like this, just a tunnel.

• 47:15Speaker 03

  And I was like, threw it back at him, I'm like, I'm not answering your fucking questions.

• 47:20Speaker 03

  And I went, took the guys and the gals inside to the parking garage. At this point, the police are all over it.

• 47:29Speaker 03

  They saw me and they're like, you're coming with us. Like, I, we, we, you need, we need to talk to you now, like, like what's going on, tell us. And I'm like, I don't even have a phone, I need to, I need to tell my dad. I'm like, I just need, I need, I need to tell somebody, like, hey, this is what happened and I'm okay, because like,

• 47:52Speaker 03

  and I, and then I need to know, like, everyone else in the actual RTC building's okay.

• 48:00Speaker 03

  I give my dad a quick call off the,

• 48:03Speaker 03

  the detective's phone, I was like, hey dad, like, terrorist attack in my classroom. I'm okay. But I need you to get here right now, like I'm covered in blood.

• 48:19Speaker 03

  And then we got into like the first statements with the officers there.

• 48:30Speaker 03

  We were in like the locker room of the, of the football team in the stadium. It's like, it's like attached to the parking garage, and that's where that parking garage was. And uh,

• 48:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, I had this female officer, she was really good. Uh, calming me down and stuff. I'm like, I'm like, like this, like, I'm just like, everything is after me, but I'm okay. It's like a weird, I don't know how to explain it. It's just a weird state of mind that I was in. And I'm like telling her everything that happened and then like, they're like, hey, we're gonna get you on a bus. And you're gonna come with us to the station. The police station in Norfolk.

• 49:22Speaker 03

  Covered like, we get onto the bus and

• 49:30Speaker 03

  we get on, yeah, we get on the bus and we start driving there and I was using one of my friends' phones. I was like, giving my dad updates. I was like, hey dad. Like I'm on the way to the police station on, I can't remember what, what, what road it was. Um.

• 49:49Speaker 03

  But just meet me there. And uh, he's just like, alright son, I'll be there. And uh,

• 50:00Speaker 03

  um, we got there and like I'm sitting, they put me, they sit me down in like one of their office chairs, like of like the, the tech, the detectives that work there, the officers that work there. And I'm just sitting there in this like, uh, like this cubicle area and I'm sitting there. And I am just like, I don't even know what is going on. I'm like, just completely out of my mind in terms of like, just I don't know how to feel. I don't know what to think. I'm just there, I'm just there. And they start trying to bring in like

• 50:40Speaker 03

  chaplains and stuff like that and the Navy chaplain, she took one look at me and literally kept going. Just kept going. Wow. Um, she could see it. Huh? They didn't clean you up? No. Not at all. Just my hand, they took pictures of my hands. I got to wash my hands. That was it. Uh. Jeez. They kept trying to offer me like candy and soda.

• 51:12Speaker 03

  They brought in some Chick-fil-A. I like Chick-fil-A. That was, that was acceptable.

• 51:20Shawn Ryan?

  You're like, can I get the fucking blood off of me for?

• 51:23Speaker 03

  No, literally. It's, and it's starting, and it's, it's, I was there at the station for seven hours. It was starting to stink.

• 51:32Shawn Ryan?

  You were there for seven hours before you got to clean up?

• 51:36Speaker 03

  Yeah. Seven and a half, seven hours, yeah.

• 51:42Speaker 03

  They did one interrogation with me.

• 51:45Shawn Ryan?

  An interrogation?

• 51:46Speaker 03

  No, not interrogate, but like, you know, they brought you, brought me in a room. Small room with single desk, two chairs on one end, me on the other.

• 51:57Shawn Ryan?

  What are they asking you?

• 51:58Speaker 03

  Asking me what happened.

• 52:00Shawn Ryan?

  Was there cameras in the classroom?

• 52:02Speaker 03

  I don't know. I don't think so. But, um, I think there's, there's cameras in the hallway, maybe? In the stairwells? So, um...

• 52:16Speaker 03

  But yeah, they're like, trying to offer me candy and soda and I'm like... I'm like, I don't even care. The one officer, he was doing a good job though, talking to me. Uh, he was. He's talking me through it, like, just getting my mind off it, like, hey man, like, where do you like to travel, this kind of stuff? It got my mind off it for a second and then I'm like, right there. I'm right back to, right back in it mentally. I'm sitting there, hours. And they're like, what can we get for you? And I'm like, you know what? Like, you guys are cops, right? And they're like, yeah. And they're like, I was like, can you guys get me some zins? Or something? Like some kind of nicotine or something?

• 53:02Speaker 03

  And they're like, yo, get this guy some zins, like, get us some zins. And then they're all like, all the guys that have zins are on the, you know, at the scene right now. The one officer went down to like the Wawa or something nearby and got me a whole, whole can. That helped. It really did. And um, some hours, more hours go by. And they, then they finally. Um, my leadership finally brings us into this uh, small room. With the rest of the cadets there from my class. And they're like.

• 53:47Speaker 03

  They said uh, that they had some news.

• 53:53Speaker 03

  And I was like, oh no. Cause I could see the faces of the rest of my leadership behind the one uh, officer that told us what was that. Colonel Shaw had passed.

• 54:09Speaker 03

  Like at the hospital.

• 54:15Speaker 03

  And.

• 54:17Speaker 03

  I just couldn't believe it. Because.

• 54:23Speaker 03

  The last time I had seen him.

• 54:26Speaker 03

  He was alive. And talking.

• 54:36Speaker 03

  Yeah. So. They broke that news. It was pretty.

• 54:43Speaker 03

  Traumatic.

• 54:45Speaker 03

  Being there, just hearing that.

• 54:53Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, man, I'm sorry.

• 54:57Speaker 03

  Yeah. But.

• 55:02Speaker 03

  You know.

• 55:04Speaker 03

  Maybe an hour or two more passed and uh, was able to get to the Port Sabina Hospital. My dad took a, had arranged for. Treatment. Um, for blood exposure. There for the, me and the rest of the guys that had a, some blood on them.

• 55:27Speaker 03

  And uh.

• 55:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, we got there and uh.

• 55:34Speaker 03

  Full like blood panel and iodine shower.

• 55:41Speaker 03

  Change of clothes. Uh, chaps came and saw me. Good chaplain too. Good guy.

• 55:49Speaker 03

  Um.

• 55:52Speaker 03

  I didn't get home that night.

• 55:53Shawn Ryan?

  What did he say?

• 55:54Speaker 03

  Chaplain?

• 55:55Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I'm just curious. What does a chaplain say to somebody after?

• 55:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:59Shawn Ryan?

  Event like that?

• 55:59Speaker 03

  He was like, he was like, hey, like, like, kind of like, you know, how are you feeling? Like, really, tell me. Or don't. You don't have to, but tell me, like, talk to me. What are you thinking right now? What's going through your head?

• 56:15Speaker 03

  You're like, you know, these are, you know, that what you're feeling is normal.

• 56:22Speaker 03

  Um.

• 56:25Speaker 03

  God, God saw, saw you that day. You know, saw you today, kept you safe.

• 56:34Speaker 03

  What you, you know? What you did and what those guys did, what you guys did. You know?

• 56:43Speaker 03

  That was, that was the right thing to do. You had to do it.

• 56:47Speaker 03

  It's okay to feel what you're feeling. Um.

• 56:55Speaker 03

  You know?

• 56:59Shawn Ryan?

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• 57:42Shawn Ryan?

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• 58:29Shawn Ryan?

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• 59:12Shawn Ryan?

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• 59:33Shawn Ryan?

  What were you feeling?

• 59:36Speaker 03

  In the hospital, I was really anxious, really stressed out and just

• 59:43Speaker 03

  really like on high alert. Uh, there was a, like a kid or like a boy in the room next to me. They like let out a scream as I was getting looked at and I seized up in the bed, uh, right before they were literally about to do a blood draw on me. Thank God before, uh, so I would have been like really shitty.

• 1:00:11Speaker 03

  Um, yeah, give, you know, gives you, gives some resources, personal phone number. Hey, like, talk, you know, if you feel comfortable, talk with me. If it's not, you know, if it's not tomorrow, can be a week from now, a month from now, a year from now. You know, whenever you're ready, if you wanna talk, call me. I'll, he's like, I'll answer.

• 1:00:36Speaker 03

  I thought that was solid.

• 1:00:39Speaker 03

  Uh.

• 1:00:41Speaker 03

  Cause it's like, what do you say, really?

• 1:00:43Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:00:45Speaker 03

  What, like, what can you say? What do you say? Uh.

• 1:00:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, I didn't get home that night till like eleven o'clock at night. And that was from ten thirty something when the whole thing kicked off. Uh.

• 1:01:05Speaker 03

  Did not really sleep that night or in the few, some nights after. Did not sleep hardly.

• 1:01:15Speaker 03

  Uh, didn't get to eat really. Uh, my appetite was really messed up, like the stress or something, I don't know, like this tightness in here. And, uh.

• 1:01:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, um.

• 1:01:35Shawn Ryan?

  When did you get to talk to your dad for the first time?

• 1:01:40Speaker 03

  In person? It was at the police station.

• 1:01:43Shawn Ryan?

  What about in private? When's the first time you got alone time with your dad?

• 1:01:48Speaker 03

  In the alone time, just him and I.

• 1:01:54Speaker 03

  Uh, he's a really busy guy, I mean, on the phone. Uh, I had gotten my phone, phone back.

• 1:02:04Speaker 03

  Maybe the next day, the next day, and my mom too. My mom, uh, she was like a wreck. Uh, I'd gotten to talk to her on the phone. It was just too much to kinda like go anywhere, like try to like, hey, like, see everybody, like, hey, I'm okay. Like, I, I just couldn't, I couldn't like handle just being in the car, going around, like trying to see people like my mom or my dad. Uh.

• 1:02:37Speaker 03

  Um.

• 1:02:40Speaker 03

  But yeah, I mean, like.

• 1:02:44Speaker 03

  Some days after that, I mean. Uh. And days that followed were really hard. Just like the stress, the not really sleeping. Bad dreams, kinda.

• 1:03:00Shawn Ryan?

  What kind of dreams?

• 1:03:02Speaker 03

  Just like seeing. Just like hearing the classroom. And seeing, uh, Colonel Shaw's eyes. When, uh, he was on the ground, they were really big, had a part of. Like, right before he had gone unconscious, his eyes got really big. And when I said, I got really, it's like, really freaked out and really started to get, like, that moment. That, that's, that set of eyes, it's like a.

• 1:03:32Shawn Ryan?

  That's what we blaze in your head.

• 1:03:34Speaker 03

  That, yeah, that. That and doing the first leather belt on his tourniquet. Um.

• 1:03:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, um.

• 1:03:47Speaker 03

  Didn't have my phone. Uh, I was getting like, uh, I was having to communicate like through people. Uh. Like through their phones, uh.

• 1:04:03Speaker 03

  That's, that was rough, uh. And, uh, had my, I had an iPad, I have an iPad, I was able to like kinda iMessage call, FaceTime, audio call through that. Uh.

• 1:04:21Shawn Ryan?

  How many people were in the classroom?

• 1:04:24Speaker 03

  Twenty-eight.

• 1:04:25Shawn Ryan?

  Twenty-eight people?

• 1:04:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:27Shawn Ryan?

  And four of you guys took him out?

• 1:04:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, like the four of us, well, that were hands-on with the terrorists, yes, but then there's another three that helped with aid and stuff like that. Um.

• 1:04:40Shawn Ryan?

  How long after he yelled "Alaa up" or did he start shooting?

• 1:04:43Speaker 03

  Immediately, while he was doing it, while he was shooting.

• 1:04:46Shawn Ryan?

  So there was, you didn't have time to?

• 1:04:48Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:04:48Shawn Ryan?

  Nobody had time to process?

• 1:04:50Speaker 03

  No, not at all, zero, like, no time, it was, it was instantaneous, damn near. From the confirmation that yes, this was the ROTC classroom.

• 1:05:03Shawn Ryan?

  Shit.

• 1:05:06Speaker 03

  And uh.

• 1:05:07Shawn Ryan?

  Did he shoot at Colonel Shaw first?

• 1:05:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, he was a, Colonel Shaw is the closest guy to him.

• 1:05:12Shawn Ryan?

  How far? Point blank?

• 1:05:16Speaker 03

  Six, seven feet.

• 1:05:17Shawn Ryan?

  That's it?

• 1:05:18Speaker 03

  I mean, I mean, first, like, I'm telling you, the dimensions of this room is like the same, like, the door. He, shooter is like, the right edge of the American flag. And Colonel Shaw is standing where your portrait is of you in the helicopter.

• 1:05:37Shawn Ryan?

  Wow, it's about five, five, five, six feet?

• 1:05:42Speaker 03

  Um.

• 1:05:43Shawn Ryan?

  How many shots did he fire?

• 1:05:46Speaker 03

  Four, four, um, like I, like, Colonel Shaw was, he closed the distance, like, immediately, damn near, and was able to kind of bear hug him to the ground. After he'd been shot.

• 1:06:04Shawn Ryan?

  Did he hit him four times?

• 1:06:06Speaker 03

  Colonel Shaw was only hit once. That's, I checked the whole, his whole body.

• 1:06:13Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:13Speaker 03

  I only saw, found one gunshot to his leg.

• 1:06:19Shawn Ryan?

  But a girl got shot?

• 1:06:21Speaker 03

  She did, she did get shot.

• 1:06:23Shawn Ryan?

  When did she get shot?

• 1:06:25Speaker 03

  It must have been in that volley of shots.

• 1:06:28Shawn Ryan?

  So he wasn't just aiming at Colonel Shaw?

• 1:06:31Speaker 03

  Well, um.

• 1:06:33Shawn Ryan?

  Or somebody ran in front of him?

• 1:06:34Speaker 03

  No, um, she was sitting in the general, like, line of fire. Um,

• 1:06:46Speaker 03

  that hit Colonel Shaw, she was sitting, would have been sitting in the general line of fire of where he was standing. Um, because she was in the front row. Um, I think in the front row, to the, my left, uh, it wouldn't have been that much of a gap if, uh,

• 1:07:11Speaker 03

  if you were shooting quickly to maybe have a stray, I don't know. But she was hitting the leg.

• 1:07:20Shawn Ryan?

  Was anybody else hit?

• 1:07:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:22Shawn Ryan?

  Who else?

• 1:07:23Speaker 03

  Another cadet, uh, guy, the one with the knife. It was, uh, I don't know if, uh, he must have been shot, he was shot and kept stabbing.

• 1:07:34Shawn Ryan?

  Where was he shot?

• 1:07:36Speaker 03

  His belly.

• 1:07:37Shawn Ryan?

  In the belly?

• 1:07:38Speaker 03

  In the belly, yeah.

• 1:07:39Shawn Ryan?

  And he kept going?

• 1:07:40Speaker 03

  Kept going. Freaking insane.

• 1:07:43Shawn Ryan?

  Where did you tackle this guy?

• 1:07:45Speaker 03

  Uh, he was on the ground, um, like Colonel Shaw was able to bear hug, kind of bring him to the ground. Colonel Shaw, way more sizable guy than the shooter was. Shooter was not a big guy.

• 1:08:02Speaker 03

  Um,

• 1:08:05Speaker 03

  maybe like five eight, five, five nine, but like, not like muscular either, pretty like, like no, no, not strong. Um,

• 1:08:21Speaker 03

  he was on the ground when we had gotten there already and it was just kind of like a beat, beat down.

• 1:08:29Speaker 03

  Just punches and elbows and

• 1:08:34Speaker 03

  people with knives and some even had a water bottle, like a metal thermos.

• 1:08:41Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:08:46Speaker 03

  It was, uh, just, uh,

• 1:08:48Shawn Ryan?

  Who was heads up enough to put their hand on the slide so that he couldn't shoot anymore?

• 1:08:53Speaker 03

  What was that?

• 1:08:53Shawn Ryan?

  Who was heads up enough to put their hand on the top of his weapon?

• 1:08:57Speaker 03

  It was,

• 1:08:57Shawn Ryan?

  On the slide?

• 1:08:57Speaker 03

  It was me and another cadet on my left.

• 1:09:01Shawn Ryan?

  Did you know what you were doing? You knew the firearm wouldn't function if you did that?

• 1:09:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:06Shawn Ryan?

  It's pretty fucking heads up, man.

• 1:09:07Speaker 03

  It, I mean, it, it's just, I feel like it's kind of like, you know, I, I've like, I've done a fair amount of shooting and it's like if, that's, that's the main action of the, of the gun, of the pistol. So it's like, and he was trying to, he kept trying to pull the trigger, like at, he's trying to swing his arm around at me and at the guy to my left.

• 1:09:31Shawn Ryan?

  What are you doing while he is trying to shoot you?

• 1:09:34Speaker 03

  We're we're trying like pushing the gun like as a team back away and forcing the muzzle away from our classmates behind us into the wall.

• 1:09:45Shawn Ryan?

  Is he yelling?

• 1:09:46Speaker 03

  No, no, he was, he yelled, shot, you know, and like he did not say a word while getting beaten. Like at all. He just kind of let out a couple grunts and

• 1:10:04Speaker 03

  maybe after a minute, minute and a half, he was gone.

• 1:10:08Shawn Ryan?

  How many times did you guys stab him?

• 1:10:12Speaker 03

  Uh.

• 1:10:14Shawn Ryan?

  Do you have any idea?

• 1:10:15Speaker 03

  A lot, it was a lot. It was and it was a lot and it was everywhere.

• 1:10:19Shawn Ryan?

  It was everywhere?

• 1:10:20Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. It was a lot, it was everywhere.

• 1:10:28Shawn Ryan?

  How big of a knife was it? Do you know?

• 1:10:31Speaker 03

  Two, three incher.

• 1:10:32Shawn Ryan?

  Little bitty knife.

• 1:10:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, two, three inch knife, like, you know, it's a college campus.

• 1:10:40Speaker 03

  Can't carry like knives or guns on campus.

• 1:10:46Speaker 03

  Really, uh. They just like, you know, they a couple of them happened to have one on them.

• 1:10:54Speaker 03

  All I had on me that day was my cellphone. Until I didn't have it on me. I was there to just give my brief. I was just there to give my brief and go on my spring break.

• 1:11:12Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, you guys eliminated that threat in four fucking minutes with no firearm.

• 1:11:22Speaker 03

  Yeah. It was, uh.

• 1:11:25Shawn Ryan?

  When everyone else ran.

• 1:11:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, um, I mean,

• 1:11:34Speaker 03

  yeah, I mean, telling them, telling them to run made them run. I don't know.

• 1:11:39Shawn Ryan?

  Here's the timeline.

• 1:11:42Shawn Ryan?

  9:40, Mohammed Jala parks his vehicle on campus with illegally obtained Glock 4422 caliber firearm. 10:40, an hour later, Jala enters Constant Hall, navigates to the ROTC classroom. 10:43, Jala enters the classroom, asks, "Is this the ROTC class?" Upon confirmation, shouts "Allah Akbar" and opens fire. That's at 10:43. 10:43 to 10:47, Jala fires multiple rounds fatally wounding Lieutenant Colonel Brandon Shaw and injuring two ROTC candidates, cadets. ROTC cadets immediately engage, overcome shooter through physical force.

• 1:12:26Shawn Ryan?

  10:43, first emergency call placed. Reporting active shooter. 10:47, police arrive on campus. Four minutes after the first call to determine the shooter is deceased.

• 1:12:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:12:40Shawn Ryan?

  That means he died well before 10:47.

• 1:12:46Shawn Ryan?

  Shots started at 10:43. 10:48, run height fight alert issued to campus lockdown protocols initiated. 12:10, all clear issued. Campus declared safe. That is

• 1:13:00Shawn Ryan?

  unfucking real that you guys in less than four minutes were able to kill that dude.

• 1:13:08Shawn Ryan?

  It was

• 1:13:08Speaker 03

  The team.

• 1:13:09Shawn Ryan?

  You guys.

• 1:13:10Speaker 03

  The team. It was unbelievable. Uh, how fluid and cohesive.

• 1:13:19Speaker 03

  Uh, we worked on, on, in doing this.

• 1:13:26Shawn Ryan?

  Was that instinct?

• 1:13:29Speaker 03

  Ah, see, I don't know. Maybe, um.

• 1:13:38Speaker 03

  Probably, most, probably mostly instinct and maybe some training. I'm not sure. Like, there was no thinking involved. I don't recall ever.

• 1:13:53Speaker 03

  I don't.

• 1:13:55Speaker 03

  I don't think there was any.

• 1:13:59Speaker 03

  Any like time during the course of, you know, those few minutes where I was like deliberating over what I should do. It was just doing.

• 1:14:11Speaker 03

  Uh, and I think the rest, I think that goes for the rest of those guys and. Um.

• 1:14:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, they, I mean, this, the team. It really is like, uh. I.

• 1:14:30Shawn Ryan?

  Do you know how heroic that is? Is that even registering?

• 1:14:35Speaker 03

  It's, it's partially ish. It comes and goes kinda like with the incident in a way. Um, kinda. Still, you know, I, some days I'm like, okay, I thought I've come to, maybe I've come to terms with it. And then other days I'm like.

• 1:14:54Speaker 03

  Like, what the, I still like, what the heck is even going on? What even happened?

• 1:15:01Speaker 03

  And I think that, you know, I think that.

• 1:15:03Shawn Ryan?

  You charged a terrorist that was killing people with. You charged him with no weapon.

• 1:15:11Speaker 03

  All of us, or most of us with no weapon, yeah. Not even a knife. Uh.

• 1:15:18Shawn Ryan?

  And eliminated him in less than four minutes.

• 1:15:24Speaker 03

  I. Like I said, it's.

• 1:15:27Shawn Ryan?

  You know how many people would have been killed? If it wasn't for you four?

• 1:15:32Speaker 03

  Uh, they say, you know, it's, it would have been more.

• 1:15:35Shawn Ryan?

  Did he have more magazines on him?

• 1:15:38Speaker 03

  Maybe one other.

• 1:15:41Speaker 03

  I know the one cadet, he did, he, uh, cleared this, cleared the, it was fully loaded. At least the one mag was fully loaded. I don't know how much, uh, was in, how many rounds were in that mag, but.

• 1:15:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, the university president.

• 1:16:00Speaker 03

  He said this.

• 1:16:05Speaker 03

  The university president Hemphill. He

• 1:16:11Speaker 03

  had called me personally after I'd gotten this like really weird email.

• 1:16:19Speaker 03

  From some like associate assistant to the vice president of like the student conduct committee.

• 1:16:29Shawn Ryan?

  What did that email say?

• 1:16:33Speaker 03

  Along the lines of.

• 1:16:37Speaker 03

  Hey Samuel, just want to let you know. ODU doesn't have any intention of pressing charges against you in accordance with like the student code of conduct.

• 1:16:47Shawn Ryan?

  Pressing charges against you? The ODU hasn't, doesn't have any intentions of pressing charges against you after you killed a fucking terrorist that killed a professor?

• 1:16:59Speaker 03

  It's what the email said. I woke up one morning.

• 1:17:01Shawn Ryan?

  What is, what the fuck does that even mean?

• 1:17:03Speaker 03

  This is, yeah, I don't know. And he's, and it was like, you know, no intention of pressing charges in accordance with the student code of conduct for the actions you took personally that day.

• 1:17:14Shawn Ryan?

  Oh gee, thank you.

• 1:17:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, I woke up that one morning at like eight thirty in the morning. Slept on the couch, you know, maybe it's been four or five days since the shooting.

• 1:17:26Speaker 03

  Look at my phone, immediately screenshot it, I sent it out.

• 1:17:31Speaker 03

  To my dad and some of my like mentors from like when I was active duty and they were like, what in the hell is that?

• 1:17:40Shawn Ryan?

  Can I have that screenshot?

• 1:17:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can. I'll give it to you.

• 1:17:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think it was like a, like a rogue, it was a rogue email, like a, we know what you did kind of thing. I don't know.

• 1:17:54Shawn Ryan?

  We know what you did?

• 1:17:57Speaker 03

  The, my phone, the other.

• 1:17:59Shawn Ryan?

  Saved an entire fucking classroom.

• 1:18:01Speaker 03

  This is so, the university president.

• 1:18:05Speaker 03

  Was alerted of this, that this happened. And within a couple of hours, he called me personally and was like, I'm so sorry that ever, that ever got sent to you. Don't even like.

• 1:18:20Speaker 03

  No words, but I'm sorry. And what you and those guys did, you guys are warriors, you're heroes. And then he shared a personal anecdote with me about

• 1:18:33Speaker 03

  his time when he was at Illinois University or yeah, Southern Illinois University in like 2008.

• 1:18:46Speaker 03

  There was a shooting there, apparently. I didn't know this until he told me. He was there as like a dean or something, or vice president of the university. And in a classroom of 150, there a lone gunman came in and shot or killed like 19 or 24. And nobody stood up to this guy. So he called me to tell me thank you and God bless you and keep in touch and he wants to make it right. He wanted to make it right.

• 1:19:27Speaker 03

  And his number two, her and I started corresponding. This is where I made this group chat for the guys that us guys that stayed back in the room. Just to talk about, hey, how's everyone doing? How's everyone feeling?

• 1:19:48Speaker 03

  I named it Fucking Warriors. That's the good name of the group chat. But the university president wanted to take us out to dinner. He said, anywhere you want. Anywhere you guys want to agree on a spot, let's go. So we chose a really, really like expensive steakhouse. And that the Monday, it was the day after the funeral we all went and we like broke Brad fellowship together. He wanted to get eyes on every single one of us. But that's the way it should be. Good, amazing leader. I mean.

• 1:20:29Speaker 03

  Amazing. And it wasn't even like bureaucratic or anything. It was just real. Good. Like, you know, it wasn't like a check the box like, hey, I saw these guys. It was like, it was like person to person.

• 1:20:46Speaker 03

  And he heard our, I mean, he even heard our complaints or suggestions.

• 1:20:55Speaker 03

  What were your suggestions?

• 1:20:59Speaker 03

  Ah, man.

• 1:21:02Speaker 03

  You know, increasing security.

• 1:21:08Speaker 03

  Colonel Shaw, he had been there a few, couple of years or three, two or three years at this point. And he had grown like the, the ROTC population from, I don't know what amount, but to over a hundred some.

• 1:21:30Speaker 03

  And

• 1:21:33Speaker 03

  I uh, had been corresponding with his aide and

• 1:21:42Speaker 03

  or maybe she's the vice president. I'm not sure, but

• 1:21:47Speaker 03

  I said to him, I was like, you know,

• 1:21:50Speaker 03

  if, you know, what kind of security measures are we gonna put in place for our ROTC populations? Clear, you know, after this clearly, you know, targeted.

• 1:22:03Speaker 03

  What are we gonna do? Because if you don't, and if you don't help, people will feel safe.

• 1:22:12Speaker 03

  Then the growth that Colonel Shaw did for the program will be cut in half because people are not gonna feel safe and wanna show up and they will just disenroll.

• 1:22:26Speaker 03

  He had already was like, hey, Virginia State Police, ODUPD, they're gonna be out in force every training event there before you guys show up to after they'll be there watching.

• 1:22:42Speaker 03

  So, all right.

• 1:22:45Speaker 03

  Um, the first football game this coming fall semester, home game, the everybody, every football player on ODU's team is gonna be wearing camouflage with the Colonel Shaw's name on the back. They're gonna do an Apache flyover, uh, prior to the kickoff. Colonel Shaw was Apache pilot. He loved Apache's and Army Aviation. And, um, you know, renaming a building, uh, commemorating the part of the stadium where Colonel Shaw always liked to stand and hang out next to his, uh, his, uh, 105 howitzer that we, we got to shoot off for the games.

• 1:23:28Shawn Ryan?

  Nice.

• 1:23:28Speaker 03

  Uh, memor- commemorating it as like Shaw's corner, stuff like that.

• 1:23:33Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think this could have been prevented?

• 1:23:36Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 1:23:38Shawn Ryan?

  How so?

• 1:23:40Speaker 03

  I think, um, you know,

• 1:23:48Speaker 03

  I think that

• 1:23:52Speaker 03

  the law

• 1:23:55Speaker 03

  maybe isn't as, uh, strict as it needs to be on individuals who have prior,

• 1:24:05Speaker 03

  prior convictions and associations with terrorist organizations.

• 1:24:14Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 1:24:15Shawn Ryan?

  One way it could have been prevented is if they wouldn't have released him from fucking prison two and a half years early.

• 1:24:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:23Shawn Ryan?

  What do you think this guy's motivation was? Mohammed. What do you think his motivation was?

• 1:24:29Speaker 03

  Just hate.

• 1:24:30Shawn Ryan?

  Hate?

• 1:24:31Speaker 03

  Hate and... Hate and evil.

• 1:24:35Shawn Ryan?

  Let me give you a radicalization timeline. Do you mind if I do that?

• 1:24:41Speaker 03

  Sure, I'm not familiar, but sure.

• 1:24:43Shawn Ryan?

  Here's a radicalization timeline for Mohammed Jalal. 2009 to 2015, serves honorably in the Army National Guard, becomes troubled, personal life, relationship breakup, substance abuse, things like that. In 2015, he quits the National Guard after listening to online lectures from deceased Al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Khawali.

• 1:25:16Shawn Ryan?

  July 2015 to January 2016, travels to Sierra Leone in Nigeria, makes contact with Islamic State members, views extremist propaganda. Early 2016, contacted by ISIS, a virtual plotter, online operative who encouraged attack planning, told the FBI he wanted to conduct an attack similar to the 2009 Fort Hood shooting that killed 13 people. July 3rd, 2016, arrested after a three-month FBI sting operation, attempted to purchase

• 1:26:00Shawn Ryan?

  an AR-15 rifle and tried to donate $500 to ISIS. October 2016, pleads guilty to attempting to provide material support to ISIS.

• 1:26:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:21Shawn Ryan?

  I didn't know you couldn't donate to ISIS. The US government sends 40 to 87 million dollars every fucking week to the Taliban. Did you know that?

• 1:26:32Speaker 03

  Uh, I've, I've, I've heard about this.

• 1:26:36Shawn Ryan?

  That's where that flag's from.

• 1:26:37Speaker 03

  We've read about.

• 1:26:38Shawn Ryan?

  Taliban was burning that flag in Afghanistan, and the man that uncovered the fact that the US government is sending 40 to 87 million fucking dollars a week to the Taliban.

• 1:26:53Shawn Ryan?

  Which is going to training? People like Mohammed Jalal to come here and fucking kill our people. Our US government's funding that. I just want everybody to know that the US government is funding fucking terrorism.

• 1:27:09Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, so let me go down this timeline a little bit more.

• 1:27:14Shawn Ryan?

  Prison record and early release. Sentenced February 10th, 2017 to 11 years in a federal prison plus five years supervised release. Prosecutors recommended 20 years. He only served eight and a half years. Transferred to a halfway house, a halfway house. Aug, a halfway house. He's in prison for pleads guilty to attempting to provide material support to ISIS. So they send him to a fucking halfway house.

• 1:27:49Speaker 03

  Honestly, I don't even know what a halfway house is.

• 1:27:52Shawn Ryan?

  A halfway house is for addicts.

• 1:27:54Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:27:55Shawn Ryan?

  That's what a halfway house is.

• 1:27:56Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:27:58Shawn Ryan?

  So they send him to a fucking halfway house. Released on December 23rd, 2024, approximately two and a half years early. Reason for early release? Completed a ARDAP. A residential drug abuse program. Despite having no drug conviction convictions, only terrorism convictions. Federal law prohibits violent offenders from early release via ARDAP. This was a legal loophole. The Federal Bureau of Prisons has since closed the loophole in 2025.

• 1:28:42Speaker 03

  It's just.

• 1:28:42Shawn Ryan?

  So it was preventable.

• 1:28:44Speaker 03

  I mean.

• 1:28:44Shawn Ryan?

  Had they not let a fucking terrorist out of prison two and a half years early on a fucking ARDAP? Residential drug abuse program. Why the fuck would you release a terrorist, a fucking terrorist? Two and a half years early on a residential drug abuse program? Whoever the fuck did that? Needs to go to prison.

• 1:29:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:11Shawn Ryan?

  Along with every member of the US government that's sending forty to eighty-seven million fucking dollars a week to terrorists to train Muhammad Jalal to come to OD you and fucking kill your professor.

• 1:29:27Shawn Ryan?

  God rest his soul.

• 1:29:29Speaker 03

  It's rough.

• 1:29:31Shawn Ryan?

  That's the reality of this.

• 1:29:41Shawn Ryan?

  Thank God for people like you and your fucking comrades.

• 1:29:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:47Shawn Ryan?

  Still some real Americans left in this country.

• 1:29:50Speaker 03

  We just wanna, we just wanna do our best.

• 1:29:53Shawn Ryan?

  I know, man.

• 1:29:55Speaker 03

  And, uh.

• 1:29:55Shawn Ryan?

  This shit just pisses me off because it is fucking preventable.

• 1:29:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean.

• 1:30:00Shawn Ryan?

  Had that piece of shit not been released two and a half years early on a fucking drug rehab program, this wouldn't have happened. If they would have taken the fucking shit seriously, that this guy was actively

• 1:30:14Shawn Ryan?

  helping ISIS, wanted to be, wanted to be an ISIS, was, an ISIS member, went overseas to train, to look at.

• 1:30:25Speaker 03

  Whatever kind of material to.

• 1:30:29Shawn Ryan?

  And we fund it.

• 1:30:32Shawn Ryan?

  We fund this shit.

• 1:30:36Shawn Ryan?

  How fucking crazy is that?

• 1:30:43Shawn Ryan?

  You don't have to be Abraham Lincoln or Winston Churchill to make a powerful point. You just need to understand how to use your words. That's exactly what Hillsdale College is teaching in their new free course, Classical Logic and Rhetoric. In this course, a Hillsdale professor walks you through how to actually think clearly and make sound arguments, not just opinions, but reasoning that holds up. You'll learn how to refine your thinking, how to structure valid arguments, and how to speak more persuasively using rhetoric. And it's not just this course. Hillsdale offers more than forty free online courses covering everything from the Constitution to World War II to the rise and fall of the Roman Republic.

• 1:31:26Shawn Ryan?

  If you care about thinking clearly, communicating better and making stronger decisions, this is well worth your time. Go right now to hillsdale.edu/srs to enroll. There's no cost and it's easy to get started. That's hillsdale.edu/srs to enroll for free.

• 1:31:47Speaker 04

  Hi, I'm Sarah Adams, the host of Vigilance Elites: The Watch Floor, where we highlight what matters. It became a permissive state. Explain to you why it matters and then aim to leave you feeling better informed than you were before you hit play. Terrorists, hostile intelligence agencies, organized crime, not everything is urgent. But this show will focus on what is need to know, not just what is nice to know.

• 1:32:26Speaker 03

  You know,

• 1:32:30Speaker 03

  it's hard to conceptualize that, especially

• 1:32:41Speaker 03

  because,

• 1:32:44Speaker 03

  you know, being a soldier,

• 1:32:50Speaker 03

  wanting to defend the country.

• 1:32:59Speaker 03

  It's hard, difficult.

• 1:33:01Shawn Ryan?

  The country's still worth defending, Sam.

• 1:33:03Speaker 03

  I believe that.

• 1:33:04Shawn Ryan?

  Politicians are not.

• 1:33:07Shawn Ryan?

  They are not worth defending.

• 1:33:12Speaker 03

  Politics isn't really, it's, it's hard to keep up for me. You know, I stay in my lane.

• 1:33:21Speaker 03

  I just wanna, I just wanna take care of the people around me.

• 1:33:31Speaker 03

  Get care of my soldiers.

• 1:33:33Shawn Ryan?

  You're a good man.

• 1:33:37Speaker 03

  Yeah lawmakers.

• 1:33:43Shawn Ryan?

  You don't have to say anything man.

• 1:33:47Speaker 03

  It's it's hard to it's hard to talk about.

• 1:33:52Speaker 03

  It's hard to talk about even though I'm not representing the army in an official capacity. Uh it's hard to talk about. Those facts about what the government funds.

• 1:34:05Shawn Ryan?

  It's not the army's fault man.

• 1:34:06Speaker 03

  I know it's not.

• 1:34:07Shawn Ryan?

  That's our politicians. You know what they want to do? They want to sit on X and bat this shit back and forth like it's some fucking political campaign. And not do a fucking thing about it. And now we have terrorist attacks happening in our fucking country that we're funding. And I've been saying this shit was gonna happen for fucking years. Along with a whole slew of other people.

• 1:34:30Speaker 03

  I was in the police station and I saw on the TV that day. That the uh the. It's like a church or something in Michigan had gotten attacked that day too. And then there was another one in Belgium, I think.

• 1:34:45Shawn Ryan?

  Yep.

• 1:34:46Speaker 03

  That same day. I think those are all the same day.

• 1:34:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:34:56Speaker 03

  I love my country. I love the people in it.

• 1:35:06Speaker 03

  I love the army.

• 1:35:09Shawn Ryan?

  Good.

• 1:35:11Speaker 03

  Even though it has its ups and downs. Like anything.

• 1:35:18Speaker 03

  Enacting change. Enacting change in uh within. The organizations that I'm a part of is. What I want to do.

• 1:35:31Shawn Ryan?

  What are you doing for yourself right now? This shit can creep up on you.

• 1:35:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, um. Staying active.

• 1:35:43Speaker 03

  Talking to my mentors, my my friends, my leaders, leadership from when I was. Prior service.

• 1:35:50Shawn Ryan?

  Have any of them killed anyone before?

• 1:35:52Speaker 03

  They have.

• 1:35:57Speaker 03

  Yeah. And uh.

• 1:35:59Shawn Ryan?

  Are they walking you through that?

• 1:36:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, they are.

• 1:36:07Speaker 03

  Honestly, the terrorist is not. That whole part of the sequence.

• 1:36:15Speaker 03

  It doesn't really bother me at all.

• 1:36:18Shawn Ryan?

  Good.

• 1:36:19Speaker 03

  Like at all. It's the, it's, it's, it's, it's Colonel Shaw and, and taking care of him.

• 1:36:27Shawn Ryan?

  That's a survivor skill.

• 1:36:28Speaker 03

  That's the thing. Those, that, that, that part of it is, uh, that's the hard part for me is that part.

• 1:36:39Shawn Ryan?

  Do you think you could have done something differently?

• 1:36:42Speaker 03

  Who, me?

• 1:36:42Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:44Speaker 03

  There was nothing to do different.

• 1:36:47Shawn Ryan?

  You did everything you could, man.

• 1:36:48Speaker 03

  We all did. Like, the team.

• 1:36:55Speaker 03

  There was nothing else better. I don't think we could have done. We had what we had and we made use of it.

• 1:37:04Shawn Ryan?

  So what is tripping you up about that? The experience itself?

• 1:37:09Speaker 03

  Um.

• 1:37:10Shawn Ryan?

  Or what do you feel guilt about?

• 1:37:13Speaker 03

  Um, no, it's not so much. It was guilt in the beginning, but now it's more.

• 1:37:23Speaker 03

  It's just the sadness. Like, uh, in the funeral, I had, I had seen him. They, before they had shut the casket, they did like a final viewing. Uh, that, that, that day and, uh.

• 1:37:43Speaker 03

  Just like seeing somebody you were taking care of alive and talking to the opposite and laying in a uniform in a casket.

• 1:38:04Speaker 03

  And that's, it's just, just getting through that mentally. That's, that's the thing. That's the hard part for me. And the family, uh, his wife and his son. He loved his son.

• 1:38:21Shawn Ryan?

  How old's his son?

• 1:38:23Speaker 03

  I think he's like ten. Fuck, man. Uh, he was an amazing father, I know that. Amazing father, amazing husband. Um.

• 1:38:39Speaker 03

  Very big leadership void without him there. Uh. Really good representative of the army to the university.

• 1:38:53Speaker 03

  Yeah. That's the hard part.

• 1:39:01Speaker 03

  In the funeral, the flag, the flag pass.

• 1:39:08Speaker 03

  You know, to the spouse.

• 1:39:15Speaker 03

  And watching her carry it out. And when it was being handed to her. The, I guess the coordinating officer who like, I guess, you know, was in charge of the funeral. Who passed, gives the flag. He like leaned over and his hat fell off, his, his cap onto the ground and that was a lot, seeing that.

• 1:39:46Shawn Ryan?

  It's hard, man. I've been to a lot of those. Especially where you see their kids running around.

• 1:39:54Speaker 03

  The kid.

• 1:39:54Shawn Ryan?

  And they just wanna know what the hell is going on and when is my dad coming home?

• 1:40:00Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:40:01Shawn Ryan?

  He's not.

• 1:40:03Speaker 03

  No, and yeah, I saw like a tweet, it was like, I don't know how many months spent overseas, but many, many months overseas to just die at home.

• 1:40:19Speaker 03

  That was, uh, that was something that stuck with me, just seeing that, it's like a tweet or something.

• 1:40:28Shawn Ryan?

  Sam, you gotta stay ahead of this, man. This stuff, it can creep up on you.

• 1:40:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:34Shawn Ryan?

  It takes a long time to cycle through all the emotions.

• 1:40:39Speaker 03

  Trying my best. Uh, this is my first time going through something like this.

• 1:40:46Shawn Ryan?

  Hopefully it's your last.

• 1:40:47Speaker 03

  Last time, yeah. Um.

• 1:40:51Shawn Ryan?

  Are you in therapy?

• 1:40:52Speaker 03

  No, not in therapy.

• 1:40:54Shawn Ryan?

  Are you gonna start?

• 1:40:56Speaker 03

  Uh, probably not, no. Uh, hmm?

• 1:40:59Shawn Ryan?

  Why?

• 1:41:02Speaker 03

  Um, because I think like, there's like other ways of like there, like doing kinda like self-therapy. Like, I like going out to the garden.

• 1:41:14Speaker 03

  Uh.

• 1:41:16Speaker 03

  I find it therapeutic to talk with my friends or like mentors that I really trust.

• 1:41:22Shawn Ryan?

  Good.

• 1:41:23Speaker 03

  Uh, about it.

• 1:41:26Speaker 03

  Um, therapeutic for sure to do that, uh, and

• 1:41:33Speaker 03

  you know, chaplain, eventually. I think I see that. But, right now, no.

• 1:41:41Shawn Ryan?

  Well, as long as you're not internalizing it all, that's a good thing.

• 1:41:44Speaker 03

  No, definitely not internalizing it. I'm not bottling it up. I was one, you know, I was one of those people back when I was like a, like a little young teenager. I know it's not the right way.

• 1:41:59Speaker 03

  So.

• 1:42:01Shawn Ryan?

  Well, when we wrap this up, I'm gonna give you my contact info.

• 1:42:07Shawn Ryan?

  If you need anything, anything.

• 1:42:09Speaker 03

  Appreciate it, Sean.

• 1:42:10Shawn Ryan?

  Hit me up.

• 1:42:12Speaker 03

  Um.

• 1:42:12Shawn Ryan?

  I've been through just about every fucking healing avenue you can imagine, so.

• 1:42:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:18Shawn Ryan?

  I can at least point you in a couple of directions.

• 1:42:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, um, I really appreciate that, um.

• 1:42:24Shawn Ryan?

  You listen to the show?

• 1:42:26Speaker 03

  I do. A lot.

• 1:42:30Speaker 03

  Like hours and hours.

• 1:42:31Shawn Ryan?

  A lot of avenues.

• 1:42:33Speaker 03

  Um.

• 1:42:33Shawn Ryan?

  And a lot of mentors that would love to help you out, man. And your comrades, which I can't wait to meet them. I hope I do.

• 1:42:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, um.

• 1:42:46Speaker 03

  They would love to meet you.

• 1:42:49Shawn Ryan?

  Open invite anytime you guys want to come out. We'll fly you up there, we'll put you up. We'll set it up.

• 1:42:59Speaker 03

  Thank you, Sean.

• 1:43:00Shawn Ryan?

  My pleasure.

• 1:43:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, through all of this.

• 1:43:06Speaker 03

  Through all of this.

• 1:43:11Speaker 03

  I got, I got called by somebody. It's like somebody just trying to reach out and they were like, hey, like, you know, you thinking about getting out now or like, you know, trying to get some disability?

• 1:43:25Speaker 03

  It's like, no.

• 1:43:28Shawn Ryan?

  Good for you.

• 1:43:28Speaker 03

  No, I want to be, I want to, I want to serve even more.

• 1:43:36Shawn Ryan?

  Good for you, man.

• 1:43:38Speaker 03

  So.

• 1:43:41Shawn Ryan?

  Is there anything you want to say to your comrades? Your fellow cadets that you haven't yet?

• 1:43:52Speaker 03

  Maybe if I forgot to, but I'm proud of them.

• 1:43:56Speaker 03

  I'm proud

• 1:43:59Speaker 03

  and thankful for every single one of them. If I didn't, there it is.

• 1:44:09Shawn Ryan?

  Is there anything you want to say to the Colonel?

• 1:44:14Shawn Ryan?

  Colonel Shaw?

• 1:44:29Speaker 03

  I miss you, man.

• 1:44:32Speaker 03

  I do.

• 1:44:36Speaker 03

  You know, even through every, through everything. Like, not seeing eye. I miss you.

• 1:44:48Speaker 03

  And I hope you know I tried my best. We tried our best.

• 1:44:54Speaker 03

  The team.

• 1:44:58Shawn Ryan?

  Do you wanna tell his son what kinda man he was?

• 1:45:01Speaker 03

  What was that?

• 1:45:02Shawn Ryan?

  You wanna tell his ten-year-old son what kinda man he was?

• 1:45:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, your dad, his dad, your dad.

• 1:45:13Speaker 03

  He loved you so much.

• 1:45:17Speaker 03

  We all knew that as a class and we never even met him. And I met his son.

• 1:45:25Speaker 03

  And...

• 1:45:30Speaker 03

  Everything, I think, I think everything he did was for his son.

• 1:45:38Speaker 03

  And same for his wife.

• 1:45:45Shawn Ryan?

  Well, man. We're wrapping up the interview, but, uh, got you one last present.

• 1:45:53Speaker 03

  What's is that?

• 1:45:59Shawn Ryan?

  You're a Catholic, you'll know what that is.

• 1:46:01Speaker 03

  It's a rosary? Thank you.

• 1:46:05Shawn Ryan?

  Pull it up.

• 1:46:11Shawn Ryan?

  You know who Dom Razzo is?

• 1:46:14Speaker 03

  Yeah. I've met him.

• 1:46:16Shawn Ryan?

  You met Dom?

• 1:46:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, uh... Yeah, when I was a high schooler, um, I worked at a, this restaurant down in, uh, Portsmouth, Virginia. Uh, Beer Garden. He frequented there a lot with his family. I'm like, I'm not like, like, short, kinda big beard.

• 1:46:43Shawn Ryan?

  That's Dom.

• 1:46:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I've, I've, I've met him when I was, I was like sixteen. I've, I've, he's got, uh, the knives, the knives.

• 1:46:52Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:46:53Speaker 03

  The stuff, yeah, this is sweet. Is this from him?

• 1:46:57Shawn Ryan?

  Well... Yes. Dom has those made, those, those rosaries, and he calls them the Warrior Rosary. And, uh, so I thought, when you told me you're a Catholic earlier off-camera, I thought, oh, man, I've gotta give him one of these things.

• 1:47:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, I'm not even kidding, like, I've served his family as like a, like a teenager.

• 1:47:21Shawn Ryan?

  Wow, small world.

• 1:47:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, uh, that's crazy.

• 1:47:25Shawn Ryan?

  Small world.

• 1:47:25Speaker 03

  Um, yeah, he's awesome guy. Uh, I met him. Uh, he was, it was a Sunday, I think. And he had taken his family to church and he was getting a meal after church and he was just talking, he was just talking to me. I was just a teen, like a teenager. I wasn't even joining the army or anything at that point.

• 1:47:45Shawn Ryan?

  Right on, man. Tom's a great dude.

• 1:47:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:49Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I thought.

• 1:47:51Shawn Ryan?

  You might like that.

• 1:47:52Speaker 03

  I do, I really.

• 1:47:53Shawn Ryan?

  I carry one with me everywhere I go. I think that rosary brings a lot of protection and, uh, maybe you'll carry it too.

• 1:48:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:02Shawn Ryan?

  And so I thought maybe we could end this with a prayer that you lead for Colonel Shaw and his family.

• 1:48:17Speaker 03

  God.

• 1:48:21Speaker 03

  Thank you. Um, for bringing us here today.

• 1:48:28Speaker 03

  Uh, keeping us safe.

• 1:48:34Speaker 03

  You know, that day, uh, on March 12th. It's a really bad day.

• 1:48:43Speaker 03

  And, um,

• 1:48:48Speaker 03

  you know, I, I pray that, uh, you see Colonel Shaw's family

• 1:48:57Speaker 03

  and protect them and bring them as many blessings as you can.

• 1:49:09Speaker 03

  And

• 1:49:12Speaker 03

  that

• 1:49:14Speaker 03

  you

• 1:49:17Speaker 03

  bring his son

• 1:49:20Speaker 03

  into your arms and keep him safe.

• 1:49:27Shawn Ryan?

  Amen. Mind if I add a little bit? Of course. And Jesus, I just would like to add that I just want to say, thank you for Sam and his comrades for standing up in the face of fear that day. Because if they hadn't, who knows how many lives would be gone with Colonel Shaw.

• 1:49:56Shawn Ryan?

  It's men like that that make this a great country. And I also just want to say,

• 1:50:03Shawn Ryan?

  please be with Colonel Shaw's family. They're gonna need you

• 1:50:09Shawn Ryan?

  more than anyone right now in these times. And, uh, never forget. Amen. Amen.

• 1:50:20Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:23Shawn Ryan?

  Sam? Sean, thank you, man. Thanks for having me. Anything you need, reach out.

• 1:50:32Shawn Ryan?

  I really appreciate it. Proud of you, man.

• 1:50:38Shawn Ryan?

  Really appreciate it, Sean. Thank you for having me. It's an honor. It's a real honor, man. It's a pleasure.

• 1:50:57Shawn Ryan?

  No matter where you're watching The Sean Ryan Show from, if you get anything out of this at all, anything, please like, comment, and subscribe. And most importantly, share this everywhere you possibly can. And if you're feeling extra generous, head to Apple Podcasts and Spotify and leave us a review.