What Fuels You? | Ep 813

Want to scale your business? Click here. Welcome to The Game w/ Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned and will learn on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth. Follow Alex Hormozi’s Socials: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Acquisition

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Hormozi?

  Fear and anger were what drove me to take action. Like, I didn't have a lot of faith. I had a lot of anger. And that's what I had. And so that's what I used. And it took me years, like years, not like a year, like six, to like, I would say even switch to not always being driven by anger and trying to prove people wrong and make the point that I was right. You know what I mean?

• 0:29Alex Hormozi?

  And I wouldn't say that I'm purely faith driven now. I would say that I have elements of it. And so I just, I just don't know if it's a binary for me. I would just say that over time, I have less of that and I have more of some other stuff. Like, I enjoy what I do now a lot. And so I do a lot of it. And so, you know, trying to find what the fuel is now, I don't think about it much. I just do the things that I enjoy and that I've been rewarded for doing in the past. And so like, I work hard on things because the harder I work on things, the better things tend to work out for me. And so the projects that I'll work on now, I have way longer time horizon than I did. Like Gym Launch was just like, I mean, I told Leila when we started making like, I'll say crazy money in quotes here, but we were taking home like a million a month-ish

• 1:12Alex Hormozi?

  and we're in our twenties, like, like, I didn't think it was gonna last. So I was like, we need to live so cheap and take every dollar we possibly can. And I told her, as soon as it started working, I was like, we have 18 months. I told her, I sat her down, I was like, we have 18 months before this is gonna not work. So like, we need to just make this work. And here Gym Launch is, six years later, still crushing it. You know what I mean? But like, I didn't know that, right? And so there was no faith, zero. Like, people were like, what was the vision of Gym Launch? I was like, the vision was, don't be broke. Like, that was it. That was the whole vision. And so I think what happens is like, you have to get your head above water so that you can even breathe and like, look around. But like, if, it's kind of like the air mass scenario, which is overused. But like, if you're looking at how you're gonna pay rent and how you're gonna make payroll and all that stuff,

• 1:56Alex Hormozi?

  like, it's very hard to make strategic decisions. Like in some ways, it's like, I do, I do like having the idea of some entrepreneurs who have saved up enough from a job or career that like, they're not worried about shelter. They're not worried about food, so they can actually think on a 10 year time horizon. Like, it's easy for me to stand here and be like, guys, be more long-term thinking, except you're like, well, rent's fucking due tomorrow. So what do I do now? Right? And like, the reality is, you decrease your liabilities. You decrease all of the things that stress you out. And so if the things that stress you out are the things that you spend money on a regular basis, then it's like, decrease those to the absolute greatest degree possible, so that you're not in fight or flight every month. So that you can breathe and then you can actually make the better decisions. Cause like, if you're in that state, it's, it's so hard to win.

• 2:41Alex Hormozi?

  Because other people who are competing against you aren't there.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  You're sleeping on the, the gym floor where you're fully in that state, I assume.

• 2:50Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  Take me through that scenario and also like wanting to be seen as the person who was sleeping on the gym floor.

• 2:59Alex Hormozi?

  So I, that was not external. So that was more, okay, so I'll, I'll unpack this. So for everyone who's listening, so I, um, I quit my job, drove across the country, mentored with a guy for three months, then opened, uh, uh, my own gym. And I didn't have enough money for two rents. My rent was $5,000 a month, which I was 20, like, it was all, I couldn't even, I mean, it was insane. Like, it was 5,000. I was like, that, that was more than, that was like my salary. You know what I mean? It was like, what am I going to live on for everything else? Right? And so I, I moved out of the place that I was at, which was just a spare bedroom. And I slept at the gym. And I remember like, you know, I would read the Instagram motivation manifesto when it was just like, stock images of girls that were like, chase your dreams, you know, like whatever. And I'd be like, like, you know?

• 3:46Alex Hormozi?

  And the thing is, is that like, I had a very different idea of what that suffering would feel like. Right, like it was very praised and lauded, L A U D E D, by Instagram and the world and motivation manifesto. But like when I was alone in a city I didn't know, in a dark warehouse that was underneath of a parking garage. And people would drive over the metal cracks in the, in the, in the concrete on the ceiling, six, seven times a night. And he was like, and it was like this, it was like this gunshot. And there'd be kids my age, partying on the roof illegally. And I'm trying to like, wake up at four o'clock in the morning to do the first sessions. Like, it wasn't fun.

• 4:32Alex Hormozi?

  Like, there was, there was no like, like, the Rocky cutscene lasts thirty seconds in the movie and lasts five years in your life.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  It's powerful. That's powerful.

• 4:43Alex Hormozi?

  And so you have to find ways to win in the meantime. And that's where the patience comes in. It's like, I didn't, I didn't, I, I, I've said this before, but

• 4:55Alex Hormozi?

  I didn't know if I was gonna win, but I did know I wasn't gonna stop. And that was the only thing that I felt okay committing to. Because when we talk about fuel, it was like, when it got back down to it, the, the wall that my back was against was going home, a failure. And to me, I would have rather died.

• 5:16Alex Hormozi?

  And so that was it. So like, I, I love this quote, which is, it's amazing what you're gonna accomplish when you have no choice.

• 5:26Alex Hormozi?

  And so, I, like, and this is a really visceral example, but I'm gonna use it for the sake of being visceral. Slavery has happened for thousands of years. We think about it in America with our American slavery, but slavery has existed everywhere, right? Thousands of years. Slaves work all day, every day.

• 5:49Alex Hormozi?

  And some, and the idea of being a slave right now for many people who are free is incomprehensible. Right? And so I remember, as twisted as this is, maybe I started thinking this when I was younger, is that I would be in this gym alone, not having slept for a long time, doing all the jobs and being like, this is horrible. And then I would think, well, being a slave and being whipped every single day and not being compensated and having sunburned everything with everything chapped and peeling constantly. And the only respite that I would have would be a meal at the end of the day and then eventually maybe a day off once a month, and then eventually have the good grace of dying.

• 6:35Alex Hormozi?

  And yet those slaves continued to work. And I was like, how are they able to do that? They would do it because they had no choice. The choice was death or work. So they worked. And so when I thought about it like that, within the context of the gym, I was like, for me, I wasn't in an extreme scenario like that, but it felt that way. Because to me, the idea of going home of failure might as well have been death.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  It had to do with your dad too, right?

• 7:01Alex Hormozi?

  Of course. Yeah. And all the people that, you know, and all the people, real and fake, in my mind, that were speaking against me. And, and I still probably have this issue. Is that like, I will fabricate other people talking shit about me, who aren't even thinking about me. Right? And so in that time though, I had gone from what would be considered a high status setup. You know, I'd been doing everything right. No, like my dad could brag about me at the cocktail parties and I could see guys at the reunion and be like, oh yeah, I've got a good consulting job. Like I've got a 401k, whatever. Right?

• 7:38Alex Hormozi?

  And going from that to this, that I was, I'd already swallowed the pill of looking foolish. Like, why would I leave my white collar job to be a personal trainer? And I don't say that as an insult to personal training. I just say that in the general rung of status, white collar management consultant is perceived as higher than personal trainer. And so I had swallowed that pill once and I was like, I'm not swallowing it again. Like, I will not go down a rung and then fail.

• 8:05Alex Hormozi?

  And so it was just like, there wasn't an option. Like I, if I, if the, if the gym had gone, if I somehow wouldn't have figured it out, I wouldn't have told anyone. I would have just kept working and found a way. And I've already told my plan B before, but like my plan B in my head, which allowed me to do this is that I was going to drive Uber and I would strip. That's what I would have done. Because I knew that if I lived on, you know, a thousand dollars a month and I made another one fifty the next year, if I did, driving Uber and I stripped at night, then I could start over again. And I would have done that cycle as many times as it took until I won. And so like, the thing that I could commit to is that I, my actions were under my control. And that was the only, like, I didn't know if I was gonna win. And honestly, there's many times where it didn't look like I was.

• 8:47Alex Hormozi?

  But the only thing I could, I could commit to was like, okay, well, slaves continue to work and so can I.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Take me through those voices that you make up in your head currently.

• 8:58Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, I mean, they're, they're like what I would call fake enemies. You know what I mean? Like, they're not, they're not real. I know they're not real, but sometimes it's just, it just, it just gets the juices going.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  Like what?

• 9:09Alex Hormozi?

  And I'll tell you this, a lot of times it's, uh, like some of my content, like my more spirited content comes from me seeing someone post something. And then I'm like, this is such horseshit. And then I just go off on basically that person, but I'm doing it to a camera and I'm anonymizing.

• 9:25Alex Hormozi?

  But I think, I think,

• 9:32Alex Hormozi?

  I, I, I resent the passion thing. Not long term, but in the short term for people who are starting. And I think that's because it sets too high of a bar. I understand the intention behind it and I think the intention is pure and I think the intention is right. But I think the execution of that is where people fall short. Is that they wait for something that they're going to fall in love with. And you don't fall in love with things unless you're good. And you only get good at things if you suck first.

• 9:58Alex Hormozi?

  And so I think it's really about like lots of action, even if it's disjointed until you're like, oh, I have seen some progress on this. I will do more of it. And then all of a sudden you get good at whatever the thing is, and then you like it, and then you find your passion. But you didn't find your passion, you created it. And you created it through excellence and through finding ways to consistently win over time. And so I think if we lowered the bar for a lot of people who are starting out, like the it's kind of it's kind of the same thing with like romantic partners right now for a lot of younger, younger people. It's like you have the paradox of choice is that there's so many fish in the sea. There's so many swipe rights. There's so many opportunities to meet girls or meet guys that you're looking for this perfect key or this perfect lock

• 10:39Alex Hormozi?

  that's going to like unlock all the the amazing romantic thing that and it's just not like that. And I think that you could probably look at careers the same way. And so people haven't connected like there's some element of people are like, okay, marriage isn't perfect. And there is no perfect partner. Well, there's also no perfect career. And so it's like, everything has overhead. And that's a Bezos quote, like, everything has elements that you don't want. And I think the expectation that everything is going to work out makes it so that nothing does for most people.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  Wow, I needed to hear that so, so much. Thank you for for laying that out. What do you think the what do you think the modern day version of the cigarette is the thing that we accept as normal currently, but that the rest of in 50 years will look back and be like, how are we so dumb to do this thing?

• 11:31Alex Hormozi?

  I think I think brain meds are like, we have no idea what's going on in the brain. And so like, we take, you know, it's kind of like electroshock therapy of like 50 years ago, we're like, I can't believe we did that or like lobotomies, you know what I mean? Like, I can't believe we used to do that. And I think a lot of the the psych drugs that people put kids on really early is tough. I think there are there, there is the problem with this stuff. There's part of me that even hates that I got into it. But like,

• 12:03Alex Hormozi?

  There, wherever there's a need, there's always a 10 times bigger amount of abuse of a, of a, of a solution, right? And so it's kind of like workers comp. Charlie Munger talks about this, but it's like, it is absolutely wrong that someone should work and get injured on the job and not be compensated by the company that, that, that they were doing work rightfully so for, right? The problem is, how do you, how do you manage that when there's no way to hold people accountable? And so what happens is you actually sacrifice the system for a select few.

• 12:42Alex Hormozi?

  And so I tend to be a global optimizer, but a local minimizer. What that means is like, I'm willing to sacrifice the small, I'm willing to sacrifice the pawn for the game.

• 12:56Alex Hormozi?

  And society is not willing to sacrifice the pawn for the game because the pawn is a headline. And that's the problem with how, how media, I'm not even getting into that, but like, that's,

• 13:06Alex Hormozi?

  that's what, that's what makes it hard. And that's why it's very, it's, it's hard for sometimes cultures to move forward. But I think most people on a common sense level would rather have the whole benefit, but they cannot make the decision in the short term. And so like, total side note on this, if you want an amazing razor for prediction, predicting people's behavior, just look at what will reward them the fastest.

• 13:28Alex Hormozi?

  And you can with fairable certainty, guess what people and groups of people will do.

• 13:35Alex Hormozi?

  Should we print more money or should we reel things back? Well, short term, this one's better. That's what we'll do.

• 13:44Alex Hormozi?

  It's, it's, it's near impossible. It's hard for one person to do it for themselves. It's almost impossible for a group.

• 13:51Alex Hormozi?

  And so groups will always optimize for the short term until eventually they run out and another group wins.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  It almost seems like there's a heaviness within you when you're speaking about it. Is that accurate? Cause your, your mood and complexion changed completely.

• 14:07Alex Hormozi?

  I, I don't like getting into this because it's, it's, it gets off the, the beaten path of.

• 14:15Alex Hormozi?

  It's just a bummer. And I would get more into it, but I don't like getting into the politics around things. That's I've never been, I've never been in it ever. I've like just never gotten involved. I, because I try to play games that I have variables that I have control over. And so I got this from my dad, actually. But he said, I only play games if I know I'm gonna win. And people might take that and take a lot of different things from it. But I'll tell you what he meant by that was that he wanted to do all the preparation and have all the unfair advantages he possibly could before taking the first step into a game.

• 15:00Alex Hormozi?

  And I would say that that's probably the biggest difference between people who are big time winners and everyone else is that like, once you learn the rules of the game, then you learn how to stack the deck. And you can do it ethically and you can do illegally, right? Like, easy way to stack the deck? Wait longer than your competition. Right? Like you can, you can come in with unfair advantages simply by measuring success on different time horizons or measuring a different metric for success. Right? Like, right now, what am I optimizing for? I'm optimizing for brand. I'm not optimizing for money. Right? So I'm measuring something different than somebody else might be. And so someone who maybe made, started making content same time as me, might be making more money than me today. But are they winning? I don't know.

• 15:44Alex Hormozi?

  We're playing different games, right? And so I think that that lens can be used by most people. And most people don't do that because they don't even know the rules that they're, of the game that they're trying to play. And so they are pawns in someone else's game. And so I think that's where the heaviness of this whole thing comes from for me is that like, I hate not feeling like I have an element of control over the outcomes in my life. And a lot of the stuff that's happening in the world, I don't feel like I have control over. And that annoys me. And so I focus on the few things that are controllable for me and I direct all of my intention there.

• 16:26Speaker 01

  Makes a lot of sense. I I've also taken a similar approach. And then I'll hear from loved ones or you should be paying attention to the news. You should. And and it's like, well, I mean, I'm going to control the things that I I'm going to control. And and part of me is like, maybe when I'm that age and I can impact it more, I will. But in this moment, I can't. Is that a similar approach you take as well?

• 16:48Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I um.

• 16:53Alex Hormozi?

  The question always comes down to what am I going to do? Right? And so if the input like, I consume all this media, right? I get quote educated, which getting not even getting into like where you get sources of information which conflict and it's a tougher, it's tough for anybody right now, like to even know what an informed decision is, right? Because no one actually can touch the situation anymore. Everything's it's it's banana phone times 100, right, right now, across all media. So it's really hard to have an informed decision. And so for me, and I I really thought about this. And I was like, the reason I actually haven't, I voted one time in my life.

• 17:32Alex Hormozi?

  The reason that it's so tough is that if I'm going to vote, I would like to be an informed voter. In order for me to be informed voter, people like, it only takes 10 minutes. I'm like, if you're an idiot, it it only takes 10 minutes to literally click the buttons. It takes weeks to be informed about what buttons you're pressing.

• 17:52Alex Hormozi?

  And so for me, that's where the time trade off has not been good. And this isn't me saying I'm an advocate for not voting. I'm an advocate for being informed, but the cost of being informed relative to the amount of change I can make with my vote is relatively small. And so for me, I look at the opportunity cost of that time. And could I, with that same time, more positively impact my life than what my one vote will impact my life through? And for me, the answer is yes. And so then I choose not to. And so I am uninformed, which is why I try not to give a political opinion, because that's exactly what they would be opinions. I have no idea. So it's the same as me making up answers because I don't know. So I try to talk about only the few things that I feel relatively confident that I know about. I had a DM the other day. He was like, I watched one of your videos and you said,

• 18:38Alex Hormozi?

  you don't know how to get to nine figures a month. And so I wanted to tell you.

• 18:43Alex Hormozi?

  Mind you, the only person who's gonna say this is not someone doing nine figures a month, but we'll leave it aside. The point is, is that I will only talk about getting to eight figures a month because I have been there. And so I know what it takes to get there. And I said, once I get to nine figures a month, I will tell you that. Not that I don't have a map or a roadmap of how I plan to get there, but I won't talk about it until I've walked it.

• 19:06Alex Hormozi?

  And so like, right now, I don't feel like I could walk any political discussion because I would get trounced by anybody who's more educated than me. And I'd be like, you're probably right. I don't know. And then I would be like, why am I here? I'd be like, oh, this is a game that I don't know the rules to. I'm going into a game that I don't have an advantage. I don't want to play. And so I play games that I know that I can win.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  Could you see yourself going into that realm after?

• 19:30Alex Hormozi?

  I don't, not on any time horizon that I associate with the current identity that I have.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  So good.

• 19:41Alex Hormozi?

  I like my life a lot. And so like, I don't like, I'm, I'm good. Like, I like the path I'm on. I like what I'm doing. I like, I like the impact that, that, that we're making. I love, I love seeing the businesses that come in every day. I get stopped in the street from, you know, every day for most people being like, dude, I read your book, I quit my job and I'm doing a million dollars a year. And I'm like, that, that might not have happened if I hadn't taken the extra 20 hours on that one page.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 20:07Alex Hormozi?

  And my editor said this to me, and it's been like, it's haunted me to a degree. When we were, when things would get hard, right? In the editing process, like there are times where we, you know, I mean, we're the closest to friends, but we would really argue viciously over a point because we wanted to get to the truth, wanted to the bottom of it. And he was like, Alex, he's like, there's a 16 year old kid who's gonna sleep with this book under his pillow.

• 20:32Alex Hormozi?

  He's like, yo, it's him, man. And I was like, fuck, he's right. He's right. So let's keep, let's, let's keep working through it. Let's make it simpler. Let's not cut the corner. Like, let's explain it. Let's define the term. Let's make a visual, you know, even though it's gonna take me another five fucking hours. Like, I didn't, you know, like, it's, it's, that's the hard part. You know, and, and it was during the writing process that I tweeted this tweet that went pretty, whatever, got a lot of lift. It was, um, whenever I, whenever I, like, it gets really hard. And I just think to myself, like, why am I even bothering? Why should I, why should I even keep doing this? I just remind myself that this is where most people stop. And this is why they don't win.

• 21:12Alex Hormozi?

  And so that's, that's a quote that has helped me get through some of those like really tough times. It's like, well, do I want to win more than I want to fail? Yes. It's like, well, then this is a Trevor quote, who's my, my editor and my closest friend. He said, well, whenever someone says they can't stand it anymore. He said, well, if you're alive, you have proof that you can stand it. And if you die, you won't have to stand it anymore. So you can always stand it. And I think that's a really powerful message. It's really simple. But like, if you are going through it, then you are going through it. You may be uncomfortable. It may be painful. You may hate it, but you're still here. And I think like, to me, it reminds

• 21:56Alex Hormozi?

  me of this, uh, the Morpheus quote, I think it was in one of the matrices. And he says, I stand here truthfully and afraid, not but because of the path I live before me, but because of the path I live behind me. And so I think that that's like the gift that we all have is like, we all have stood life to this point. And I think that's like all the proof you need that you can keep standing.

• 22:19Alex Hormozi?

  Hey guys, real quick, this podcast only grows from word of mouth, quite literally. There's no other way to grow a podcast than word of mouth. If there's some element of this that you think somebody else should hear or would be relevant to them, it would mean the world to me if you shared this via text, via Instagram, via DM, via whatever way you like to share stuff with people you love. Thank you.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  Or just sit down and then get back up for a second.

• 22:40Alex Hormozi?

  Sure. Yeah.

• 22:42Speaker 01

  I would love to talk to you about a couple of your tweets here. I have a bunch listed, but they're, they're so good. And your writing is like, it's really one of your gifts or one of the things that you've built to be amazing at it. So really just want to give you that acknowledgement. Oddly effective. Had a coaching call with myself. I typed up a chat conversation with some problems I was having and pretended to be my 85 year old self. I got some really insightful replies. Worth a try. After all, no one cares about younger you as much as older you. Thought that was really cool, impactful, and a practice that anyone can do. I'd love to learn about, are there specific prompts, questions, things you say to yourself that, that make for the best conversation?

• 23:26Alex Hormozi?

  This is the perfect question.

• 23:30Alex Hormozi?

  Real quick guys, you guys already know that I don't run any ads on this and I don't sell anything. And so the only ask that I can ever have of you guys is that you help me spread the word so we can help more entrepreneurs make more money, feed their families, make better products, and have better experiences for their employees and customers. And the only way we do that is if you can rate and review and share this podcast. So the single thing that I ask you to do is you can just leave a review. It'll take you 10 seconds or one type of the thumb. It would mean the absolute world to me. And more importantly, it may change the world for someone else.

• 24:00Alex Hormozi?

  Well done. So this is something that I learned about later that stems from a psychological concept called the Solomon paradox. And so the Solomon paradox, if you don't know who anyone's listening, is there was King Solomon, who was known for being wise, and he was one of the richest men of all time, et cetera. And so people, kings, rulers would come to him and ask for his advice. The reason that it's a paradox is that he gave exceptional advice to everyone else, but his actual life was in ruins. His son was a terrible son, and he had many wives, and he cheated, and he had this lust for money and all these things. But his advice to other people was amazing. And so the Solomon paradox, and it's been studied in multiple facets, that people give better advice than they follow

• 24:43Alex Hormozi?

  themselves. And so they've studied this through the relationships. They'll have somebody in a weird romantic relationship, tough setup, and they'll whitewash the names and say, hey, there's a lady, and she's getting beat by her husband once a month. And it's happened for four years. And this time, she says that her husband says that it's not going to happen again. What do you think that that woman should do? And then the person would give advice. And it completely conflicts with how that woman actually lives her life, even though she's giving advice to somebody who's not her, right? And they have postulated why this is. Now, you could say you've removed the emotions from it, you've removed the tensions,

• 25:25Alex Hormozi?

  whatever you want to say. But what we do know is that people give better advice than they follow. And so if you pair that concept with the idea that no one has more context on your life than you do, then you have a very powerful combo. And so one of the issues that I've had with like therapists and performance coaches and things like that is that I I've done a hint, I would say maybe I've spent like five, maybe 10 hours in total in a setting like that. I'm not very good at it. And it's because I usually feel like I'm spending the majority of my time trying to give them enough context in order to give me advice. Right? But they don't know every one of my skill sets. They don't know every one of my backgrounds. They don't know

• 26:08Alex Hormozi?

  the how that business deal like he kind of looked a little dodgy, but I didn't have time to give more context to it so that they could give me the advice. Right? And so I have failed at most of those things. And so when I tried this experiment, it was because I was actually really stressed about a decision. And so I said, okay, and this has been a mental practice of mine was just talking to my 85 year old self. But I was like, let me formalize this a little bit. I'm actually going to write it out in a document. And so I I started talking to my future self. And it was kind of interesting is it, I could hear myself laughing at myself.

• 26:45Alex Hormozi?

  So like, I'm like, this thing isn't happening fast enough. Like, I don't know what's going on. And then I'd be like, what did you expect? You're trying to build a billion dollar thing in what a year? And then I'm like, well, I mean, no. And I'm like, well, what's the objective? And I'm asking the same questions I would ask a portfolio company or CEO, right? Or whatever. And I'm now getting coached by me. And some people might take that as like wildly egotistical, which hopefully they don't. But the other side of it is that like, this person has two things that no therapist has. They have complete context on my situation, and they have completely aligned incentives. And there's no one else in the entire world who has that. And I would argue that most people know what they should do. They just don't do it.

• 27:31Alex Hormozi?

  So I'll relate this back to weight loss sales way back in the day. I'd sit across the table from Sandy and she'd be like, I don't know what to do. And I used to just like play into that, be like, oh yeah, well, I'll help you educate and all that stuff. And as I got more and more experience with sales, I'd be like, sure you do. And they would look at me because they didn't expect that. And I'd be like, what do you mean? And it's also, it breaks the frame and all of a sudden you actually get their attention. But I would say that and they'd look at me cross eyed and I'd be like, if you had to lose weight, what would you do?

• 27:58Alex Hormozi?

  And they were like, well, I'd probably like, I'd work out more. I'm like, okay. I was like, what else would you do? They're like, I'd probably eat a little better. I'm like, okay. I was like, pretty much got it. I was like, but that's not the issue, is it? They're like, well, no. I was like, it's that you're not doing it. She was like, yeah. And I was like, I can help you with that. And so the issue is that a lot of times we think that we like, that we have a knowledge gap. But a lot of times it's not that we have a knowledge gap. We just need someone else to hold us accountable. And so the ultimate gift that I think you can give yourself in life is holding yourself accountable. Like if you can do that, if you can really hold yourself accountable, you can do anything. And so sometimes it's really hard to hold yourself accountable. And so I'm just asking my 85 year old self to hold me accountable to what I say I want. Right? Because even the flip side, and I said, there's two things.

• 28:43Alex Hormozi?

  There's the knowledge and then there's the incentive, right? Somebody might be able to help you out, but their incentives aren't aligned. So as terrible as what I'm about to say may sound, there are therapists that I think are very good and really help people. But there are also therapists that are human and have bills to pay and have, and have families. And they look at their business like a business and have a recurring revenue stream and say like, if I solve your problem, you won't leave. And so you come here and you vent to me and I say, let's do the same, same time next week. They're not trying to solve your problem. They're trying to make you feel better in the moment, but not solve it long-term. And so I want someone who has complete context and completely aligned incentives. And there's only one person who has that and that's me. And so the question is like, how can I give me advice? It's like, well, me giving me advice isn't working. So I need old me to give advice who has 85 years of context.

• 29:29Alex Hormozi?

  And the nice thing is, is that most of the time he just laughs at me and makes fun of me and tells me that none of this is going to matter. And so it's been a very nice razor for focusing on the few things that do. And so when I am stressed or I have a big business decision, I also know that I don't have to educate a therapist or a coach on at least my level of business acumen to get good advice. Right? And so that has been what I've called Solomon Project. And so I have a recurring, I have a recurring calendar meetup with myself for an hour on Mondays. It's the first thing I do. And I have a back and forth dialogue with eighty five year old me. And I, I mean, it's a dialogue. It's just like a chat. And so I chat to me and then I click enter and then I chat back.

• 30:13Alex Hormozi?

  And I do the whole thing like I like it's, and I'm like, well, dot, dot, dot. And I'm like, what, dot, dot, dot? It's like, well, you kind of know. And I'm like, what do you mean? You know, like I have the whole thing.

• 30:23Alex Hormozi?

  But I can't tell you, it's been one of the most rewarding experiences that I've been through because like old me has absolute grace for young me. And old me appreciates the sacrifice that young me right now is putting in for old him. It's like, I wouldn't be living the life I have if you weren't doing what you're doing right now. So thank you. And it like, it hits.

• 30:47Alex Hormozi?

  Because like, there aren't many people who thank you for doing what you do. But like, there's no one that it benefits more than you. Right? But actually to be thanked by, it's very weird. It's very meta. But like, it's been a really powerful experience for me. And I think from a mental health or anxiety or long-term planning perspective, it's allowed me to pump the brakes on reactivity in my life, whether it's with relationships or business decisions. And be able to just be wiser, if we call it that. But really just, you know, most of wisdom is just thinking over a longer time horizon. And so it's like, might as well talk to the guy at the end and see what I should do today.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  Hmm. And that this is through a Google Doc or just a chat?

• 31:27Alex Hormozi?

  Just a Google Doc.

• 31:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:29Alex Hormozi?

  Let's just click enter.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's simple.

• 31:32Alex Hormozi?

  I mean, it's, I can tell who's talking. Like, I know whose whose turn it is. You know what I mean?

• 31:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love it. It's really powerful. I'm gonna do that right after this. And I gotta get another tweet with you while we're here.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  In a similar vein, advice to my younger self. Document your life more, otherwise you'll forget the details. And the details are what make it worth remembering. It's powerful. I always tell my friends, we gotta, we gotta take more pictures, more videos. Whatever the amount that you take, it's not enough. Like, always take more, not because you want to show anybody, but just because when I have those from the years past, I'm always so grateful I do. So what role has that played in your life? And how do you have you done that?

• 32:22Alex Hormozi?

  Well, I was notorious for not documenting anything for most of my life. And I think I have a different tweet that says the biggest regret I have is not documenting the failures. It's like not documenting the low points. Because everyone wants to document the success story. But the only way you have success stories is if you show where you came from. And where you came from is the shitty part. And so like, I did thirty something launches of gyms. I only made one recording. It's like two minutes. And that one recording made me like $10 million because I ran it as an ad.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 32:54Alex Hormozi?

  Imagine if I had thirty other ones. But it was me in some random gym being like, look at this random gym I'm in in the middle of nowhere. Like, and I'm like, isn't this weird? I was like, I just sold 200 people into this thing. Look at the stack of contracts. And I was actually not making it as an ad. I was sending it to a group that I had just joined to try and show that I was cool. They're like, they were all these internet people. And I was like, I do cool stuff, too. You know? I was like, I do stuff. Look, look at those contracts. It was me flexing to a group. It wasn't even an ad. And then I ran it as an ad, then it murdered. Like, people in the gym world are like, I remember that ad. Right? Because it was so crazy, because it was real. And so I think that the biggest mistake that I made from a marketing perspective, maybe a life perspective, biggest is strong.

• 33:37Alex Hormozi?

  One of the mistakes I made is that I didn't document the low points. And so like, I have a screenshot in my first book, that's my, when I had a thousand dollars in my bank account. And for the audience who's listening, the thousand dollars in my bank account for me, I had had, you know, six locations before that. So going from six gyms to a thousand dollars in a matter of like 90 days was very hard for me. And, but it was hard enough that I do remember screenshotting it and being like, fucking remember this. Like, don't make this mistake again. And it was a little bit of like, at the time, like self punishment of being like, you will not forget this. But as I've gained a little bit more grace to my younger self,

• 34:19Alex Hormozi?

  I have those screenshots and I, I've used that one screenshot of a thousand dollars in my bank account, probably more than any, any screenshot I've had from my past. And I've used the, I took one picture of me sleeping on the floor at the gym, one, and I just sent it to my dad being like, first night here, you know? And I'm so grateful that I took the picture because if I hadn't, I would, and I have so many other crazy things that happened, that I have no documentation of it. And so it's easy to say, hey, document. But the thing is, is that documenting is a local cost for a global benefit. It costs you now, but it benefits you long-term, which is why most people don't do it. And so what I've tried to do with what we've, how we've oriented our life is that I give myself local benefit and global benefit.

• 35:03Alex Hormozi?

  So I get fast feedback loops for documenting what we do now. And so we document everything, but I also get really fast feedback because I post it. Now, the problem is if you're not posting things, then you have no feedback cycle for remembering them, especially if they're tough.

• 35:22Alex Hormozi?

  And so I think that one of the, one of the genius concepts of capture, don't create, et cetera, is that it actually gives you a feedback loop on something that otherwise has no benefit. Because in the moment you remember it, it just happened. In some, in some ways you're trying to forget it. Right? But like, when you think about the human experience, when I think about my 85 year old self, like, what makes the human experience in its entirety, the human experience is the highs and the lows.

• 35:48Alex Hormozi?

  And so like, there was a, we were talking about frames of mind for like getting through hard things earlier, but I'll give you another one, which is,

• 35:56Alex Hormozi?

  There was a guy, friend of a friend, successful entrepreneur, and he got really bad cancer, like super bad, really, really fast, right? And I think he lost his trachea and some other stuff and like they thought he was gonna die and ended up making it. And he was telling my friend, he was like, man, so grateful. And it was like about, you think it was like the whole I see life a different way now. It wasn't that. It was while he was going through it. And his reasoning was, how cool is it that I get to live this part of the human experience? He's like, so many people don't get to live this. Like, I get to know what it's like to have cancer. Like, so many people live their whole lives and then die not knowing what cancer was like. I get to know that. And I just thought about that. It's like a very interesting frame.

• 36:41Alex Hormozi?

  It's like whether it's bankruptcy, going to jail, like even the depths of human suffering and some people who are still going through that trauma, I'm not saying that like, I'm not justifying it. It's just a frame on like, being human is the rainy and the sunny days. Like, you can't skip weather. And so I think like embracing the totality of the experience can give you gratitude for what feels locally like a low point. But most of the defining moments in our life, broken leg, then he doesn't have to go to war, right? When you expand the time horizon, those are the things that create us. And so, again, I mean, I talk to my 85 year old self a lot, which sounds really weird. But whenever I'm like complaining about something, one of the common things he'll

• 37:24Alex Hormozi?

  ask me back is like, well, who do you want to be? And I'll be like, well, I want to be like this. And he's like, do you think that person would not go through hard times? And I'm like, yeah. He's like, well, it sounds like you're wishing for the outcome but not willing to pay the price. I was like, are you willing to pay the price? And I'm like, well, yeah. He's like, well, this is what paying the price feels like. Embrace it. Because these will be the stories you tell. And so I think that's, that's given me the ability to weather rainy days, sunny days. Because like, there are a lot of those days in the entrepreneurial journey because that rocky cutscene is five years, not 30 seconds. And so I think you need as many of those tools as you can possibly put together in your tool belt to just keep going.

• 38:07Speaker 01

  So, so beautifully said. I, I want to highlight too, the part about sleeping in the basement and that sleeping in the gym and taking a picture of it. You post it on social media that day and it gets zero likes. You post it on social media today and it gets a million. And I think there's something interesting to that is like, the more you build the story, the more the low points actually mean. And the greater the, yeah, you have.

• 38:32Alex Hormozi?

  I'll actually, I'll give you something you probably didn't expect from me on this one. It's actually, I think it's a smiley face. So if you post it, when you're going through it, people will respond saying, keep chasing your dreams, keep at it, et cetera. And then when you start succeeding, all of a sudden, they won't do that.

• 38:52Alex Hormozi?

  And then later they'll be like, it's cool that you came from there. But like, when you're on the come up, and I remember I wrote this, I wrote this essay and I'm, I've actually tried to find it. And it was because I, I liked creative writing. I had a creative writing scholarship back in the, like, I didn't actually take that scholarship. But anyways, point is I've liked writing for a long time. And I wrote this essay to myself, because I'm a weirdo. I said, everyone believes in the American dream until it comes true.

• 39:17Alex Hormozi?

  And so that was like the heading. And it was, it was this weird observation that I had because like, everyone was rooting for me when I was sleeping on the floor. So like in my head, I had back home, everybody that I was running away from. But everyone in the local, like the people at my gym and stuff, they were like rooting for me. You know what I mean? They're like, good for you, chasing your dreams. Like, you know, you're, you're sleeping at the gym. Like, you're gonna get it. You're gonna make it, man. Right? But like nine months later, when I had like a team and I had a manager and like, I wasn't at the gym every hour of every day. I was working from home sometimes because I got more done because it wouldn't, you know, disrupt me. And I would show up to the gym or I'd show up to a second location and they'd be like, oh, big man, like can't be too bothered by us. Like, don't forget us little people, right? You know, all that stuff.

• 40:00Alex Hormozi?

  And I remember being like, when did I, I was like, when did I go from the underdog to the man?

• 40:07Alex Hormozi?

  As in like working for the man, which is a saying that Gen Z probably doesn't know. But I think that there's a quote that I think Chris Williamson said that I really, and I think he was quoting somebody, I don't remember who it was. But anyways, he, he said, people root for you on your way up because you remind them of their dreams.

• 40:26Alex Hormozi?

  And they try to tear you down once you're there because you remind them that they gave up on them. Something. And I, I've lived that. And it's weird because I think there's these cycles as you kind of gain an influence. It's kind of like the crab story, like in the beginning, like all the crabs try and pull the other crabs back into the bucket. So I think like you start succeeding and people are like, good for you. That gives them hope. And then you start passing them. And it's like, everyone wants you to do well, just not better than them.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:01Alex Hormozi?

  Right. And so then you start passing them by the objective measure, whatever you want to call it. And then they start cutting at you, right? Well, he cut corners. He's not ethical. He's, you know, they start making things up, whatever. Right. But then what happens is people who are not from your hometown start recognizing for who you are now. And they, they didn't see the path. They didn't see you suck in the beginning. They just see who you are now. And they're like, wow, this guy's great. He's provides so much value, whatever it is, right? And I think there's a saying that Jesus, Jesus wasn't the Messiah in his hometown. Right? Like the, the, it's counterintuitive, but you think that the place that someone was from is the place that they, that would root for him. But it's the last place that accepted him as Lord in the story. Right? And I think there's a lot of truth to that. And so it's also why I'm a big advocate of leaving.

• 41:45Alex Hormozi?

  Like if you want to become a different person, then change your environment because the environment you have is reinforcing the person you used to be.

• 41:53Speaker 01

  It's, it's so crazy. Six months ago, I know you probably, you gotta go soon, but six months ago, I moved to Austin and have it have more growth personally and professionally in my own life. Because I've moved to a different place and then I go home and I notice the patterns again that I was once living with. So that's how life goes. But, um,

• 42:12Alex Hormozi?

  That's awesome.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you. I love to, I end these podcasts with a challenge. Ask the guest for a challenge of the audience to do something and take the action from the hour and a half we've spoke. Does a challenge come to mind?

• 42:26Alex Hormozi?

  Define the input output equation that gets you closer to where you want to go.

• 42:32Alex Hormozi?

  And then 10x the input. So whatever your thing is, like if you're like, I want to be an editor, I want to be an agency owner. I want to be a whatever, whatever the thing is. The first thing you have to do is figure out the input output equation, which is what do I have to do that will get me closer to where I want to go? Step one, if you can't define your input output equation, then you need to define your input output equation because otherwise you're working for no goal. Once you define that, then do 10 times more. This is the flyer story. Like you probably, you might be doing the right stuff. You might be working out, but you're working out five minutes a week and being like, I don't know why I'm not losing weight. It's like, you're not even close. You're like, no, I think I need to double it to 10 minutes a week. It's like, no, you're not even close. The thing is, is in fitness, we have some context, right?

• 43:16Alex Hormozi?

  But in business, you have no idea. And that's the big disconnect is that people might be doing the wrong, the right stuff, but doing the wrong amount. They're doing way too little of it and they think you, they think in doubles, not in orders of magnitude as in 10x, 100x. But like the, like you want to make a hundred times more money than you are, you need a hundred times more input. Like, hold on, I'm going to hit this home real quick because this is, this is, this is important. I have right now 10,000 times the input that I used to, used to have when I was running my gyms. I just have leverage on my input.

• 43:55Alex Hormozi?

  And so, for example, so I could do 200 cold calls a day and get a certain amount of sales. The next level is I could go get somebody to do those 200 phone calls for me. And then I make the same amount of sales, but that don't do anything. More leverage. Another leverage above that is I go call, do 200 phone calls a day until I get a recruiter. And then that recruiter brings me a new person every week. And then every week I get another added 200 phone calls per day that keep stacking and the number of customers that comes from that. But what did I do there? I made calls for a week to get one recruiter. And then from that point going forward, every single month I get more and more sales.

• 44:33Alex Hormozi?

  And so that's three levels of leverage. There are more than that. And so what you unlock in the game of entrepreneurship is leverage. And the way that you unlock leverage is through relinquishing control. And so the tough part about the entrepreneurial journey is that the thing that got you to quit your job is the very thing that you have to stop doing. And so what happened is you felt out of control. And so you quit your job so you could take complete control of your life. And we're self-employed, you take complete control. You hunt, you kill, you produce, you do everything, right? And then the thing that you got the big massive reward for, because you quit your job, you started making money, living life, you're on terms, you now have to unlearn that.

• 45:16Alex Hormozi?

  And you have to say, now I'm going to give up control again. And then the rest of the journey is unlearning the control that you so hardcore were rewarded for in that first action. Because in the beginning, you have to give up doing production or doing delivery, right? On the backend. And then you have to give up doing admin work. And then you have to give up doing sales. And then you have to give up doing marketing. Then you have to give up doing management. Then you have to give up doing leadership. Then you have to give up doing financing. Then you have to do, like, you have to give up all these things until eventually you're like, but I'm not needed. And then you have to give up the desire to be needed by your business. Because many people make their business to fulfill personal desires. But the business doesn't need to do that. It doesn't exist for you. It exists for the customer.

• 46:01Alex Hormozi?

  You're not required. You think you are because it makes you feel more important. And so that's the unlearning experience and that's where leverage comes from. And so right now, to answer the question, the challenge for the people is figure out what the input output equation is and do 10 times more. And if you can figure out how to do 10 times more, figure out how to do 100 times more. And the secret is that if you're trying to do 100 times more, it's probably not just you.