Caller: I Don’t Want to Screw My Kid Up

❤️ The Marriage Kit is here. Limited kits available to help you reconnect! On today’s episode, we hear about: A soon-to-be father afraid he’ll mess up his kid A couple wondering how to tell her religious parents she’s pregnant A husband grappling with his wife’s decision to take anxiety meds Next Steps: 💬 Get the free Conflict Game Plan by Dr. John Delony. 📋 Get on the same page before the week begins. Download Dr. John Delony's free weekly marriage check-in. 🔥 Microhabits for a better marriage. Download the Together app. 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John’s Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Episode Chapters: 00:00 Intro 00:53 How Do I Not Ruin My Kid’s Life? 18:08 Tell My Catholic Parents I’m Pregnant? 39:55 How Do I Support My Anxious Wife? Connect With Our Sponsors: Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. Go to Capstone Wellness to learn more. Get started today with Churchill Mortgage. Equal Housing Lender • NMLS ID 1591 • nmlsconsumeraccess.org Get up to 20% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Visit Hallow for a 90-day free trial. Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! Explore Poncho Outdoors! Get 25% off your order at Thorne. Visit Zander Insurance or call 1-800-356-4282 for your free instant quote today. Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💰 George Kamel 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Dr. John Delony?

  All right, the marriage kit is here. This is me sitting with you and your spouse, walking with you for a year in your marriage. There are only a limited number of these available. They will sell out. Get yours now at JohnDelone.com.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  We're gonna have a kid here in December. I was curious on what I should expect as a first time dad. I don't know, I just don't wanna like screw up like the kid, you know? I don't wanna like do something really horrible. I just, I wanna do it right.

• 0:43Dr. John Delony?

  What up, what up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee, taking your calls on everything going on with your life, your work, your mental and emotional health, your relationships, all of it. I'd love to have you on the show. Click the link in the show notes and it will send you over to our overlord Kelly, the producer of the show, and her special form. And you fill it out and she will get you on the show. Would love to have you on. Let's go to Salt Lake City, Utah, and talk to the mighty Joe. Hey, Joe, what's up?

• 1:17Speaker 01

  Hey, John, how are you?

• 1:18Dr. John Delony?

  I'm awesome, brother. How are you, man?

• 1:20Speaker 01

  I'm doing well.

• 1:22Dr. John Delony?

  Very cool.

• 1:22Speaker 01

  Hey, what's up? I'll just get straight into my question here. So me and my wife, we're gonna have a kid here in December. So I was just, I was curious on what I should expect as a first time dad? Slash, how can I, you know, best be a, be a good husband for my wife as well?

• 1:46Dr. John Delony?

  Bro, congratulations, dude.

• 1:49Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:50Dr. John Delony?

  Are you excited? You nervous, all of it?

• 1:52Speaker 01

  Little bit of everything.

• 1:54Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 1:56Dr. John Delony?

  How long have you all been married?

• 1:58Speaker 01

  About a year and a half.

• 2:01Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, okay.

• 2:03Dr. John Delony?

  That was quick. Did you all plan this or is it just like, ayo?

• 2:06Speaker 01

  No, it was planned. We, yeah, we both kinda wanted kids pretty fast, so.

• 2:13Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, well, that's awesome. So, um, just what should I expect is a really big question. Narrow it down to some specifics for me.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  I don't know, just like, I don't know, I just don't wanna like screw up like the kid, you know? I don't wanna like, I don't know, do something really horrible. I just, you know, I feel like I wanna do it right, you know?

• 2:40Dr. John Delony?

  And what horrible thing are you worried about doing?

• 2:44Speaker 01

  Um, I don't know. I feel like it's not necessarily like one specific thing. I think it's just kinda the whole thing in general that I just, I don't wanna, you know, screw up.

• 2:57Dr. John Delony?

  Sure. So I want to change your orientation completely from defense to offense.

• 3:06Dr. John Delony?

  Defense is, I don't wanna let him score. And you're playing defense already in your mind, like, I don't wanna mess this up.

• 3:14Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to change that to an offensive strategy, which is, I want to love this kid and this kid's mom recklessly.

• 3:23Dr. John Delony?

  How do I do that? You know what I'm saying?

• 3:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:28Dr. John Delony?

  And so how do we pursue honoring and loving the mother of my kid, my wife? This woman I pledged my life to? How do I honor and love this kid in a rapidly changing, unspooling world? How am I gonna love this kid? That's different than how do I not mess things up?

• 3:49Dr. John Delony?

  So, um, here's a couple of just first principles off the top of my head, okay? Number one, the greatest gift you can give this kid out of the gate is to love his mother well.

• 4:01Dr. John Delony?

  And that means you have to see her and you have to know her. And who she is is going to change rapidly over the next six months to a year to two years and beyond. So the woman you know is about, has been changing and is gonna continue to change in significant fashion. And your job is not to resent change. Your job is not to pine away for the old days. Your job is to get to know the new version of your wife and love that woman really well.

• 4:35Dr. John Delony?

  And that happens through conversations, that happens through walks, that happens through not trying to fix her problems, but to say, tell me more about that, right? It's accomplished by intentionally choosing to see and know your wife, okay?

• 4:54Dr. John Delony?

  The second thing I would say is, be honest about what you don't know.

• 5:02Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? And here's what I mean by that. I literally did not know that babies pooped as much as they do.

• 5:10Dr. John Delony?

  I would change one or two diapers a day and I thought I was being a heroic, modern father. I had no idea my infant was pooping 13 times a day. Or however, 150, however many times they do it. And so at the exact same time that I thought I was being a plugged in dad, my wife was feeling like she has an unplugged husband. And it simply was, I didn't know. I didn't know how to warm up a bottle. I didn't know how to clean bottles the right way. I didn't know that there was different laundry soap for baby's clothes than for my hunting clothes. I didn't know any of this stuff. And it caused a lot of division early on because my wife and I didn't establish a way that we could check in with each other. Because every time she would correct me, I took it personally and got dramatic, oh, I'm a bad dad.

• 5:55Dr. John Delony?

  And then I would go be an idiot. And so coming up with a plan for how can y'all regularly check in with each other? Can you commit to not taking instruction personally? Can you commit to getting with a group of guys that already have a kid or two and them teaching you a few things? My wife had a suggestion of new dads or about to be new dads should have guys that come over to their house and just show them five or 10 things. Like, here's what you need to know. And that would be really helpful if you have that, right? So it's just being honest about the things you don't know and choosing, and this is a strange, I'm gonna choose to not take it personally when I don't know something that I'm somehow failing existentially, and I'm just gonna make that correction and get on with my life, right?

• 6:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:43Dr. John Delony?

  The third thing is recognizing, at least for the first six months to nine months and maybe beyond, that baby is essentially a bundle of nerves. And it's not really, but it just makes for a good metaphor. Those nerves respond to the heartbeat that he or she has been up against for the first nine months or 10 months of its life.

• 7:10Dr. John Delony?

  It responds to food, it responds to warmth. What does that mean? That that little baby could really care less about you.

• 7:19Dr. John Delony?

  And I, and many other men, took that so personally, as though I was somehow failing this kid.

• 7:29Dr. John Delony?

  And so you're gonna have to recognize that that baby is primed to eat and that baby is primed for nervous system regulation. And you don't have either of those things, especially out of the gate.

• 7:41Dr. John Delony?

  And so you're gonna have to keep showing up and showing up even when you can't quell this screaming kid.

• 7:48Dr. John Delony?

  And you're gonna have to keep showing up when the baby doesn't wanna bottle from you, wants mom.

• 7:54Dr. John Delony?

  And you're gonna have to show up again and again when you get up in the middle of the night to do bedtime and the baby just screams until mom gets up. Like, you're gonna have to wade through those big feelings of, I'm failing my kid, my kid doesn't love me. And no, this kid's four months old. They don't have the capacity to be like, I don't like you. That's not what they're thinking at all. They're thinking food, food, food, or warmth, warmth, warmth, right?

• 8:18Dr. John Delony?

  And so I, a lot of dads take that stuff personal and it just starts a tiny little turn towards, I can't do anything, this kid doesn't like me, I'm gonna go make a bunch of money and I'll help that way. I'll go work. Or I'm gonna sit in front of the TV and keep playing video games. Or I'm gonna stop being at home very much. Or I'm gonna stop helping since I can't do anything right, I'm just gonna quit doing anything at all. And that's where the real challenges step in. So you deciding early on, I'm showing up whether this baby likes me or not. And by the way, some babies are not like that at all. Some babies are just all over their dads and it's awesome, awesome. I didn't experience that with either of my kids.

• 9:00Dr. John Delony?

  And now I've got a 16-year-old and a 10-year-old and we are thick as thieves, all of us. So it comes around, but you just as a dad have to just keep showing up.

• 9:11Dr. John Delony?

  And then the last thing I would tell you is you have to be firmly committed, and this is gonna sound counterintuitive, you're gonna have to be firmly committed, because no one else will do this, you have to be in service to yourself so that you can spend the rest of your day, week, month, and year in service to your wife and to your new baby. What do I mean by that? You gotta take care of your exercise, you gotta take care of your sleep, you gotta take care of your finances, you've gotta take care of these things. And many of those things you'll do with your wife, but you've gotta take ownership of what must be true for me to be well so that I can love my exhausted, hormones out of

• 9:52Dr. John Delony?

  whack wife, that I can love this bundle of nerves that is the two-month-old, the four-month-old, the six-month-old, that I can begin to also not sleep very much and show up at work and be fully present there. I gotta do the things that I need to do so that I can be well.

• 10:11Dr. John Delony?

  And you just abdicating your health, you abdicating your sleep, you abdicating your relationships and just sitting on the couch, that might help in the short term, but it has a long-term cost to it.

• 10:26Dr. John Delony?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, yeah, that that makes total sense. I think, yeah, that, I mean, yeah, the other, the other part that I was thinking about was, you know, I want to make sure to be there for, for my wife the best I can. So that, yeah, that, that helps a lot.

• 10:41Dr. John Delony?

  So, but listen, ask her. Most couples in this situation, one partner knows what it would, what they would like, how they would like their partner to show up. So they try to show up for their spouse in that way. And it's not the way that their spouse needs. Right? So you regularly getting in a rhythm with your wife of how can I love you? What do you want today? What do you want this week? And now we have a baby, there's some actual needs here. We need to get the bottles washed. We need to get the diapers. We need to, we need to. How can I love you not? Here's how I'm loving you, right? And kind of trying to force feed the ways you want to be loved on into her.

• 11:25Dr. John Delony?

  Have open conversations for what sex is going to be like. It's going to change for a while. Expect reentry sex, um, like after baby, figuring that back out. It will feel like y'all have never even seen each other before.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:41Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And it's just awkward and it's weird and it's not existential and it's not the end of your relationship and it's always going to be like this. It's not that at all. It's just awkward, just is. So we'll navigate it and go through it and then we'll go from there. So it's, it's taking the pressure off. What does this mean? What does this mean? Um, and heading that way, right? And saying, we're in it together forever. And so how can I best love you?

• 12:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 12:05Dr. John Delony?

  And by the way, she needs to ask you how she can best love you too. This is not just a one way street. It is going to be out of whack for a while and it should be where you're picking up a ton of slack, but also, um, it shouldn't be completely, it's not one sided forever too.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:22Dr. John Delony?

  So I just do a lot at you. What questions you got?

• 12:26Speaker 01

  Um, I mean, yeah, I, I guess the, another part to this would be like, I mean, you mentioned, you know, like I work, I, I try to work a lot so that, you know, we can have enough money to, um, to survive and, you know, hopefully later thrive as well. But, um, but yeah, how do I balance like, you know, not only, you know, being at work, but like, how should I be at home as well? Like, you know, do I need to take more days off? Do I need to, you know, go in, go into work early and come home a little bit early instead? Like that kind of thing.

• 13:05Dr. John Delony?

  I think that's you sitting down with your wife and y'all doing that on a week by week, month by month basis.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:11Dr. John Delony?

  Um, you're going to have to, both of y'all will have to get, do away with this idea of that we can set it and forget it. Because like the moment you found out you were pregnant and your young marriage, that marriage you first had is over. Now you're married, you're married through a pregnancy and when the baby's born, you're going to have a new marriage again. And so it's not something to be sad about, it's something to be excited about. Like awesome, we get to rebuild this thing from the floor up. How do you, how do we want to approach each other? What does work look like? And it might be, she wants to stay at home. Awesome. There's an economic reality, there's a math problem to that. Let's be honest about the math. And here's what you staying home all day will cost us. It's me working this many more hours. Are we okay with that?

• 13:56Dr. John Delony?

  And if we are okay with that, great, knock your lights out. And three months later, she may say, I miss my husband. I'm going to take a small part time job. Mom's going to come over and watch the baby on, on Monday, Wednesdays and Friday mornings. And, but I want you home more in the evenings. Great, we'll solve that problem then. Right? But it's being flexible, but it's also being honest about the math problem in front of you.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:22Dr. John Delony?

  Um, I'll send you a couple of resources here. I'm going to send you the together app, um, for a year for free. And that's, that's going to keep you two aligned as things start to pull you all apart. Okay? And pulling you apart will be sleep schedules, hormones, exhaustion, un, unforeseen expenses. That's those kinds of things will just pull you apart. The together app will bring you back together, one action step at a time. And also I'm going to give you the every dollar premium app for a year, which is a budgeting tool that y'all can use together because you're, what y'all knew as money and budget, it's, it's going to explode now. It's, it's over. Right? So y'all have to recalibrate what things cost, what things need, what do we buy? What do we not buy?

• 15:06Dr. John Delony?

  What do we have to budget for now? Right? Do we have to cut streaming services because we got to pay for diapers now? Like all of those questions, I'll send you that together app for free for your, I mean, the every dollar app for free, the budgeting app. And it's fantastic. It's a great tool, but it will keep you and your spouse, you and your wife together aligned on this deal. Sound cool?

• 15:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, thank you. Yeah.

• 15:26Dr. John Delony?

  All right, brother. I wish you the absolute best and last piece of wisdom I'll give you. Get three dads that already have young kids. The, the right way to do this is to go talk to them in person, but if you can't shoot them a text message and let all of them know, you three guys are my go to guys in the middle of the night, in the mornings, in the afternoons, when I don't know what to do, I'm going to reach out to y'all three. Y'all are my go to guys. Please respond quickly if I send you a text to this special thread. And having a group of guys that will float with you, that will be there for you when you're like, hey, is this rash? My wife is doing this. Is this normal? Most of the time they'll be like, yeah, totally normal.

• 16:08Dr. John Delony?

  Or it's been three nights in a row and the kid's not sleeping and they'll be like, night four, they'll fall asleep. Right? So it's just getting some guys that will norm your situation with you and for you. And also point out, no, you need to take the kid to the doctor or your wife needs to go see somebody because she's really not well or whatever. Um, so get a group of guys that can walk alongside you. This is an exciting, awesome time and I wish you guys the absolute best. The fact that you're asking these questions before baby's here puts you about 14 years ahead of where I was. And it really is going to set the tone for you being a great husband and a great dad. We come back, a couple asks how to tell her traditional Catholic family about her pregnancy. We'll be right back.

• 16:53Dr. John Delony?

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• 17:37Dr. John Delony?

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• 18:20Dr. John Delony?

  That's xander with a Z, dot com or click the link in the description. All right, Columbus, Ohio. Let's talk to Peyton. Hey Peyton, what's up?

• 18:31Speaker 02

  Hi, Dr. John, how are you?

• 18:33Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome. How are you?

• 18:34Speaker 02

  Doing well, doing well.

• 18:36Dr. John Delony?

  Fantastic. All right, I'm going to bring on, is it boyfriend?

• 18:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 18:40Dr. John Delony?

  All right, I'm going to bring, she laughed like you're embarrassed. I'm going to bring on your embarrassing boyfriend, Michael. Let's see here. Michael, you there?

• 18:51Speaker 03

  Hey, Dr. John, thank you so much for having us.

• 18:53Dr. John Delony?

  You got my, you got it, my man. All right, Peyton and Michael, y'all both on?

• 18:57Speaker 02

  Yes, we're both here.

• 18:58Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 18:59Dr. John Delony?

  All right, excellent. So whoever wants to go first, go first, let it rip.

• 19:03Speaker 02

  Okay, I'll take it from here. The reason I giggle that boyfriend is because my question is how do we tell my very traditional Catholic family that we are pregnant outside of what law?

• 19:19Dr. John Delony?

  Come on, Michael, look what you've done.

• 19:22Speaker 03

  Oh, man.

• 19:23Dr. John Delony?

  Um, all right. So tell me about your relationship. How long you all been together?

• 19:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay, I can start out. So we've been together for three years now, a little over three, three years. We've been living together for two, um, and that kind of was the start of what we thought would be a little bit troubling to my family. You, you know, we've, we've been together, we've known each other since, um, 2021 and have had really just a wonderful, beautiful relationship.

• 19:57Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 19:58Speaker 02

  Um, so yeah, we, we met, um, we reconnected over a few years and fell in love and moved in together. And now we are expecting our first child. So, um, yeah, we were really excited, but, but we're definitely a little bit nervous.

• 20:19Dr. John Delony?

  Of course, yeah, everything's about to change, um, in a, in a big way. And also congratulations, man. I hope this baby is brought into the world surrounded by two parents that are just wildly in love with him or her and are committed to, um, loving this baby really, really well. Okay? So I'll give you some, some of my opinions and biases on that side of it. But the question you're asking me is a relatively easy, straightforward one. And you know what that is?

• 20:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, to just tell them and, you know, whatever their answer is, their answer is.

• 21:04Dr. John Delony?

  Well, so, but you telling them versus asking them a question, those are two different things. And so if you're wondering how to tell them and get their approval, that you may not get that. How do you tell them and have them not be upset with you? You may not get that. And so you uncoupling, what's the next right thing for me to do, regardless of what somebody else's emotional response is going to be. And you get that, a handle on that now, that will change the trajectory of your life and your relationship with them, your relationship with each other, your relationship with your employer, all those relationships. I'm going to do the next right thing with honor and integrity and my value set.

• 21:47Dr. John Delony?

  And I can't control what you, what you, the other person do next.

• 21:54Speaker 02

  Right, yeah, and I, I think like a little bit of background, um, you know, I, I come from a really big family, um, there's, there's a lot of us, um, as I said, like, moving in together two years ago was a, was a really big deal for us, that was something that was seen as, you know, not the way that it's supposed to go per se.

• 22:17Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 22:17Speaker 02

  Uh, but it was something that, you know, we decided together to do, um, and like, figuring that out for ourselves was really important, um, and now it just feels like the, this is like a big old, um, magnified version of that.

• 22:35Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so I'll ask you a harsh question, but I'm not meaning it to be harsh.

• 22:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:39Dr. John Delony?

  You've already established you don't really care what their values are. You want them to still like you because they're your family, but you don't, like, you're making your own decisions.

• 22:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I would say it's, it's hard because, you know, like, I still do hold a lot of values that they have.

• 22:58Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 22:59Speaker 02

  Um, but I, I think, I think over the past few years, I've, I've kind of discovered a little bit more of what my values are as an individual, too.

• 23:09Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 23:10Speaker 02

  Uh, so I, I guess you're right, in that sense.

• 23:12Dr. John Delony?

  And, and so, don't hold yourself hostage, re-hold yourself hostage. You've already sat down and said, y'all have this value set, I've got a different one, I'm making this decision.

• 23:21Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:22Dr. John Delony?

  And I, I think for you, Peyton, um, and Michael, tell me if I'm wrong here, I think it's important for you to say "I" often.

• 23:30Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 23:31Dr. John Delony?

  Because I've heard you say a couple of times in this call, when it's, when it's you versus your parents, and their value set, you use the word "we", "we decided", "we decided", "we decided".

• 23:43Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 23:44Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm guessing with Michael, he doesn't have that same value set. I'm guessing his family, or i- is your family different, Michael?

• 23:52Speaker 03

  Um, similar in terms of values, but very different in how we, you know, enforce them, I guess, day to day.

• 23:59Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so they, they have some ideals, but they also are like, "Yeah, kids are gonna be kids", right?

• 24:04Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:05Dr. John Delony?

  Um, and Michael, have you told your family?

• 24:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, we, uh, told my family a couple of weeks ago.

• 24:12Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, how'd that go?

• 24:13Speaker 03

  We were nervous, we were very nervous, uh, we had no idea how they would react to it, but they responded incredibly well, both, uh, my mom and my dad were teary-eyed, they said that they were gonna retire next year in order to better support us, um, through this, and then we actually found out, too, um, I'm one of three, my oldest was also conceived out of wedlock.

• 24:33Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, wow.

• 24:34Speaker 03

  And that, too, yeah, so.

• 24:35Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so they have a lived experience where the, it wasn't how we drew it up, but it ended up being a great blessing.

• 24:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

• 24:44Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, um, so yeah, Peyton and Michael, I, I, the only way through this is through it. And saying, anytime I have something to say that I know is gonna hurt somebody, or they're gonna be upset with me, or it's whatever, I'm, there's gonna be some disruption in the relationship, a couple of the principles I follow is, I'm gonna tell the full truth, I'm gonna tell whatever I have to say in the best of my ability, in a language that the person can hear it, and I'm gonna try to talk about 25% of what I would normally want us to, want to say.

• 25:25Dr. John Delony?

  And so, the, it's, it's not like, "Okay, mom, so it was, it was a dark and stormy night, and Michael came home, and I could see little tufts of his chest hair above his shirt", and like, like, that, that isn't the conversation, the conversation is to sit down and say, "Mom, Dad, we're having a baby."

• 25:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:47Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And we're committed to loving this baby super well, we're, if you want to talk about what your plans are, et cetera, from there, great, but you saying, "I know y'all are gonna be disappointed, and I know y'all are gonna be, I know this isn't how y'all", don't cast your, your, even if you're right, don't cast their future response onto them first. Right? So it's just, we're gonna say the thing that happened, we're gonna fax our friends, here's, here's the situation, here's our plan, and, um, y'all are gonna be grandparents. You got real quiet on me, Peyton.

• 26:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's definitely a lot to, to take in, um, I, it's really hard not to project what, what I think it's gonna go like.

• 26:44Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 26:45Speaker 02

  Um, just like, in response to what I've seen in the past from them.

• 26:48Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 26:49Speaker 02

  On things, um, so, so it's definitely gonna be one of those moments where you just kind of have to step up and say it.

• 26:56Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, totally, and I think, please God almighty, have this conversation in person, if at all humanly possible, this is a big enough deal that you travel to go see them, um, this is a big enough deal, and even if they, if you know they're gonna throw you out, get out. What you have to begin to ask yourself now is, "Who do I want to be? Who am I going to be in these moments when they're, when I have to have hard conversations?"

• 27:22Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:23Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, now, I'm not your parents, I'm not Michael's parents, I'm just a knuckle-headed podcaster, can I throw my two cents in here?

• 27:32Speaker 02

  Please.

• 27:33Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, um, Michael.

• 27:37Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 27:38Dr. John Delony?

  Marry her tomorrow, just go do it. You've been together three years, what are we waiting for? Let's do this thing, you're about to be parents, it's all good, all right, so I just solved all of your problems, Peyton.

• 27:48Speaker 02

  [laughing]

• 27:49Dr. John Delony?

  Right? Um, tell me about, tell me about your future relationship together.

• 27:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, so, I mean, together, I think, we both align in pretty much all ways that you could, like, want from your partner.

• 28:06Dr. John Delony?

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:07Speaker 03

  We're both hard workers, we both have good, stable jobs, our, our home is a comfortable environment, we built it up to be that way, in terms of parenting our future child, I think we both align on how we want to do so, um, we both carry some things from our childhood, that I guess we could both say weren't perfect, um, and we want to try to right that as much as we can with our child, um, and yeah, that's, I think, we both align with that, pretty much identically, marriage is definitely in the picture, um, it hasn't been done yet, just because life has been rapidly evolving over the past couple of years, however, that, it's been expedited now, and I will get on that.

• 28:47Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 28:48Speaker 03

  I assure you.

• 28:49Dr. John Delony?

  Um, so how old are you guys?

• 28:50Speaker 02

  I'm twenty. In twenty-six.

• 28:52Dr. John Delony?

  Twenty, twenty-six, okay, um, here's what I'll tell you, and it was, I'm gonna be honest with you, it was a surprise to me, okay? Um, the data tells me that if y'all choose to get married, and, I'm gonna, I'm saying this provocatively, but this is the truth, if y'all both choose together to have a good or great marriage, which means you learn how to communicate, you learn how to fight, you learn how to repair, you learn how to share values, learn how to be honest, you are, are thoughtful about, um, sex, you're thoughtful about intimacy, you learn to navigate in-laws together, if y'all choose a good or great marriage, and people talk about marriages like it happens to you, like it just kind of ran its course, I just think that's bullcrap,

• 29:34Dr. John Delony?

  um, if y'all choose this, a- and this is a crass way to look at marriage, and I don't like looking at it like this, but this is just the data, every single thing in your life has this magnifying ROI to it, from the opportunity for success for your child, for your personal health, your longevity, especially you, Michael, um, your sex life, your finances, everything magnifies in a really powerful way. And if y'all are committed, y'all been together for three years, if y'all see a future together, um, I would ask what the holdup is, and if it's about, we want to have the big party, we want to have the, whatever, there's something even above and beyond cohabitating couples

• 30:19Dr. John Delony?

  in the data, um, couples who live together and are fully committed together, for whatever reason, that, and I have a couple of hypotheses, but I don't know you could ever pull it apart in a randomized controlled trial, like, there's something about the legal documentation, the anchor point, um, my buddy Michael Easter says, "It's signing the relationship in ink", this is, um, that allows both of you to exhale a little bit deeper, and to be a little more fully committed, to a little bit more say that thing, to a little bit more go all-in, and it, that has a outside, I mean, you all heard the, you've heard the things from like, put a hundred dollars in your account when you're 18, and you're gonna have 50 billion, trillion dollars when you're 65, right?

• 31:03Dr. John Delony?

  It's those little bitty steps that you take, that magnify over time, that give your kid the best possible opportunity, but the kid has the best possible opportunity because y'all two are anchored in together. So, that's my, that's my personal bias, um, that y'all would choose, like, let's go ahead and anchor in together, and let's choose to make the gr- the greatest marriage over time together, and raise this kid fully anchored in, not just with our ideals and our words and our, like, our, like, lofty thinking, but, like, practically, boom, we're, we're in anchor, we're in anchor mode, you know what I'm saying?

• 31:38Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 31:39Dr. John Delony?

  So that's me lecturing you both, my, like, my TED Talk is over now, but, um, yeah, I, Peyton, I think you just have a hard conversation directly, and Michael, if, if, if you're a part of that, great, cool, wonderful, um, yeah, I don't know another way to do it, do they live in the same town as you?

• 31:55Speaker 02

  No, unfortunately, they live pretty dang far away.

• 31:58Dr. John Delony?

  How far away?

• 31:59Speaker 02

  Like, 14 hours.

• 32:01Dr. John Delony?

  Whoa, jeez, okay.

• 32:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I moved, I moved here for, for Michael, so.

• 32:07Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, I bet, I, I, I bet, like, Happy Gilmore, they, you're like on a list that they have, Michael.

• 32:15Speaker 03

  [laughing]

• 32:16Dr. John Delony?

  Like the Steve Buscemi character, like, your name's on a list of, like, yeah.

• 32:20Speaker 03

  [laughing]

• 32:21Dr. John Delony?

  Uh, what's your relationship with them, Michael?

• 32:23Speaker 03

  It's been great so far, honey. I, her and her mother and I are really good friends, same thing with her father and I, we get along.

• 32:31Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 32:32Speaker 03

  We've never had really any friction whatsoever throughout the course of our relationship, so it's been great so far.

• 32:37Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, my guess is, um, after the initial surprise and shock and yada, yada, yada, um, their main concern is, what's the plan for our grandkid?

• 32:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:48Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And what is it gonna look like financially, what's it gonna look like stability-wise, what's y'all's relationship status gonna be, and so, having those things anchored out, so if they start asking those questions, um, you've got, like, "Well, we're think", not wishy-washy, but, "No, we thought this through, we're adults, we're 26, 28, we're grownups now, and we're making some hard choices, uh, moving forward, and here's what this is gonna look like for us."

• 33:16Dr. John Delony?

  And can I give you one more thing?

• 33:19Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 33:21Dr. John Delony?

  This is, again, this is very unpopular and I've just sat with too many moms and too many dads.

• 33:29Dr. John Delony?

  Whatever they say, however they say it,

• 33:36Dr. John Delony?

  you get to decide whether you give them some grace after their initial shock.

• 33:44Dr. John Delony?

  Um, I just talked to somebody yesterday who, um, I love dearly and I've been in a relationship with for decades. And they called me and let me know that their spouse has terminal cancer that they thought was on the up and up. And turns out it may not, the, the solution may not be what they thought it was going to be. And there were some exchanges, some things that were said with the physician, with the medical team, et cetera. And what I told him was, give everybody 24 or 48 hours to say what they're going to say.

• 34:18Dr. John Delony?

  Because everyone's world just got blown up and people don't say the right things all the time.

• 34:24Dr. John Delony?

  Especially when they were going right and all of a sudden their whole world was going left. People say things that they regret. They say things the wrong way. They say things out of frustration. Um, they say things out of fear. And you get to decide whether you're going to hold them responsible and captive for what they initially said forever. Or if you're going to come back and circle back with grace. Cause at some point they're going to realize that's my grandbaby.

• 34:51Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And so that's just, that's just for what it is. People's, you know what I mean? You can, you don't have to do that. You can disagree with me. I've just learned that I end up carrying it more. And I've just developed a rule that when I, when I'm about to blow up somebody's world, um, with whatever I'm about to say, I give them 48 hours to say whatever you're going to say. And I'm not going to hold them hostage for that. Cause people just, I mean, it's just people get scared, man. And they get nervous and they get frustrated and they get whatever. And I'm just going to, I'm going to be a person of grace in those moments. If I circle back in 48 hours or in 72 hours, two or three days later, and you're still that way, now we got a prob, now we got a problem, right? Um, but I just have come to expect, I mean, people say things out of reaction and I'm not going to hold them to them all the time.

• 35:36Dr. John Delony?

  So can I tell you both, congratulations?

• 35:39Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 35:39Dr. John Delony?

  Girl or boy?

• 35:40Speaker 03

  Not much.

• 35:40Dr. John Delony?

  Do y'all know yet?

• 35:41Speaker 02

  We don't know yet.

• 35:42Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 35:43Speaker 02

  We don't know yet.

• 35:43Dr. John Delony?

  I'm just telling you, if it's a boy, John's an awesome name.

• 35:49Speaker 02

  We'll put it on the list for sure.

• 35:51Dr. John Delony?

  If it's a girl, I would not go with Kelly. That's just me. Um, y'all can do what you want to do.

• 35:57Speaker 03

  It's a beautiful name.

• 35:58Speaker 02

  Beautiful name.

• 36:02Dr. John Delony?

  I'll say this, if you name your ba, your daughter Kelly, you will get, I'll give you free admission to anything I ever do for the rest of my life. Okay. You'll get life, you'll get lifetime Deloney passes forever.

• 36:15Speaker 02

  That just made it really something.

• 36:18Dr. John Delony?

  If you get, if you name your kid John, I'll, I'll get your last name tattooed on my arm. Okay?

• 36:27Speaker 02

  Sounds like a deal.

• 36:28Dr. John Delony?

  Good deal. Hey, uh, congratulations, Michael, marry that girl. And, um,

• 36:32Speaker 03

  I will.

• 36:33Dr. John Delony?

  I'm, I'm grateful that y'all reached out and best of luck to you. I would though, just out of morbid curiosity, I would love to know how the conversation goes Peyton or Michael. So if y'all can write Kelly back and let her know, we'll read it on the air to how that conversation went. Best of luck to you. The only way through it is right through it. When we come back, a man asks how to support his wife's decision to try medication for anxiety and depression when he doesn't understand it. We'll be right back.

• 37:02Dr. John Delony?

  All right, we've got less than 90 days until the full weight of the holiday season is upon us. And you know how it goes. Every year as the calendar starts filling up, you tell yourself, I'm not going to let the holiday madness get to me this year. I'm going to slow down and actually enjoy the holidays. I'm going to actually be present, not just physically in whatever room I happen to find myself in. And then you're racing around to dinners, parties, kids, activities. It's madness and you're drained and the holidays become a burden. I've done the same thing, but here's one thing I've learned. One of the best ways you can slow down and work on being present long before the holiday season hits, is staying grounded in your spiritual life.

• 37:45Dr. John Delony?

  Hallow is the number one Christian prayer and meditation app in the world. And I use it almost every day of my life for that very reason. To ground myself in my spiritual life, in my spiritual practices. Some mornings it's five minutes on the drive to work. Some nights it's a sleep prayer before bed. Whatever the moment is, Hallow helps me practice presence. Before the holidays takes everything from us and makes us all super busy, I'm going to stay committed and I'm going to invite you to stay committed to practice being present with Hallow. You can try Hallow for free for 90 days at hallow.com/deloney. Start now and Hallow will be free for you to try through the holiday season. That's hallow.com/deloney.

• 38:32Dr. John Delony?

  All right, we are back. Hey, stop what you're doing, go to johndeloney.com and preorder my brand new book, Building the Marriage You Want. I'm super proud of this thing. It is everything I know about marriage. It is what happened, how we got here with marriages in the 21st century. What I think the antidote is, what you can do to have and build and co-create the greatest marriage possible. And I talk about practical things like new rules for communication, new rules for conflict, new rules for repair. And I talk about the touchy subjects, sex in marriage, kids in marriage, money in marriage, all of it in one big book.

• 39:11Dr. John Delony?

  It's $24.99. If you preorder it, preorder it now, it'll be in your mailbox, January 26th, when it releases. I do recognize I'm asking you to buy something a few months in advance and just trust I'll send it to you. We will get it to you. You pre-ordering the book helps me out immensely. I, I, I wish there was something else to it, but it helps me with the rankings. It helps me with get, with distribution. It helps more people get notice of the book as the preorder sales go up. So if you're going to buy this book for yourself, if you're going to buy it for some young people that are engaged, if you're going to buy it for family members who are, marriage is struggling or marriage is, is good, but it could be great. Whoever you're getting it for, preorder now, go to johndeloney.com.

• 39:54Dr. John Delony?

  I'll send you the, an enhanced audio book. I'll send you the ebook, early access. And I'll send you a link to a talk on communication I gave at one of our big money and marriage events, the marriage retreats I do every year, um, as a thank you. Johndeloney.com, check it out. Preorder my brand new book, Building the Marriage You Want. Let's go out to Nash, oh, stay right here in Nashville. We're not going anywhere. We're staying right here and talk to Parker. Hey Parker, what's up?

• 40:20Speaker 04

  Hey, how's it going?

• 40:21Dr. John Delony?

  Good brother. How are you?

• 40:23Speaker 04

  Doing well, doing well.

• 40:24Dr. John Delony?

  Excellent. What's up, man?

• 40:26Speaker 04

  Um, so I called in today. My question, um, kind of regards or I guess is around like anxiety and depression. Um, my wife, she struggles with anxiety and depression and she wanted to, during, wanted to take some medications. And with those medications, I'm not exactly, I don't know, I've never really struggled with anxiety or depression. Um, I'm very, it's very foreign to me. Um, just all that in general, I'm calling to how best support her and be the husband she needs in this time.

• 40:52Dr. John Delony?

  Very cool, man. Um, dude, can I just say shout out to you?

• 40:57Dr. John Delony?

  Good on you, man. It, it's, it's not a common thing for men these days to say, I don't know. Let me get some more, let me get some more wisdom.

• 41:06Dr. John Delony?

  So as a neighbor of mine here in this city where we both live, shout out to you, brother. That's, that's, that's an awesome thing. So, um, be a little bit more specific for me. Tell me about what you're wrestling with. Are there specific medications you want me to ask questions for, or I can give you the framework that I personally use?

• 41:25Dr. John Delony?

  Dig in a little bit.

• 41:26Speaker 04

  Yeah. So, um, the drug she's, I guess the drug class that she's kind of looking forward and talked with her doctor is the SSRI. It's a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors.

• 41:35Dr. John Delony?

  Yep.

• 41:36Speaker 04

  And, um, with that, like it's in the brain, um, it's going to affect her brain chemistry. And it's like, I don't know, I love my wife, how she is now. She's absolutely amazing. And it's like, I don't want her to be sad and upset and feel like, feel these things that like, I just don't, I can't relate to as much. And it's like, if these things will, you know, help and do those things, yeah, a hundred percent. But it's also, I kind of like, want her to not just rely on the drugs and that kind of thing. It's like, there's so many things nowadays, like you have a good morning routine and you work out and you drink water and see all these things. You see all these things online and it's like, I've never struggled with it. And so I'm like, oh, I've worked out, I've not on my phone a lot and all these things like that. And it makes me feel like if she just tried those, it would fix it.

• 42:18Speaker 04

  But I think that's being very immature and thinking that one size fits all, just because I don't struggle with it. If she does the same things I do, it's going to work for her.

• 42:26Dr. John Delony?

  Gotcha.

• 42:29Dr. John Delony?

  Man, you are, um, a very thoughtful guy. It's an honor to talk to you. Um, so here's a, I'm going to give you a couple of reframes and I'm going to tell you the paradigm that I have used personally in my life as a guy who's taken anxiety medication before. Okay? Um, a couple of things, I, I reframes that I have done. And this is after getting a PhD in this, after sitting with jillions of people, um, after sitting with scientists and psychiatrists and everybody. Okay? So framework number one is I start with, what if the anxiety is right?

• 43:09Dr. John Delony?

  What if it is accurate in that it is identifying places in my life where I am not safe? And that's safe is is not a guy outside with a knife like banging on the window. That's fear. This this this underlying sense of safety could be economic, it could be relational, it could be physical, right? And so when you go to fight or flight, when your body sounds the alarms, you're not safe. The best way I could describe it is if you want to get in in great cardiovascular shape, one of the things you can do is go for a run, right?

• 43:51Dr. John Delony?

  Well, if you go for a run and you've got a one of those tires behind you that we used to pull for like for for speed and power, right? And you got a chain attached to you, you're not going to be able to run very far. And so where I felt anxiety medication really like be a before and after for me, the anxiety medication did not solve the anxiety at all. What it did was is it unhooked the chain with a tire on and let me go run finally. And so what if the anxiety is correct? And I'm going to send you and I'll send you two copies, one for you and one for her of my book, Building a Non-Anxious Life.

• 44:33Dr. John Delony?

  It is about the choices you make and ways you can drop down the anxiety alarms, because that's all that is, it's an alarm system, right? And so that's number one. And so what I want you to hear me say is, you may be right and both and maybe she does need to drink more water, maybe she does need to change the way she eat, maybe she does need to get off her phone. And it may also be that the medication will low dose SSRI will allow her to go do the things she needs to do to be well. Does that make sense?

• 45:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 45:09Dr. John Delony?

  And so it's not that you're going to skip these things and it's just like a it's just like a hack or a way around it. It allows you to go through it. So that's number one. I was unable to sit down with somebody and be completely honest because my alarms were ringing so loud. It was hard for me to go to the gym every day because it was just easier to stand under the covers. Right? And so once those things were relaxed, then I was able to meet my buddy Slade at the gym, and we did that for a year or longer. And then I was able to go have lunch with my buddy Randy, and then I was able to go sit down with a therapist. So I started doing the thing that started being honest about my finances and I sold my house and we paid off, you know, six figures worth of debt because my body would have been failing me if it let me sleep all night, knowing how leveraged I was and how tenuous

• 45:54Dr. John Delony?

  my job was. Right? So all those things, the anxiety was actually right. And but the taking a low dose, low dose SSRI let me it turned the alarms down just enough so I could go do the things I needed to do. Okay? Number two is all the research is pretty clear that none of that works in isolation. So if you're going to take medication, you got to go sit with somebody also. So it's not a thing you just do in isolation by itself and everything's good and great and grand. Having a counselor that you're going to that she's going to see regularly is very important also. Okay?

• 46:29Speaker 04

  Makes sense.

• 46:30Dr. John Delony?

  Number three is I personally, and I can't speak to the greater psychiatric community, I stay as far away as I can from benzodiazepines, like benzodiazepines, like the benzos, Xanax's and those kind of things. The downstream effects of those things are not worth the the benefits for me in the short term. So SSRIs is the place I would start. And I guess finally, the last thing I would say is, where is this information, where is it coming to? Who's presenting this to her? Is this something she's researched on Instagram or has she been sitting down with a clinician who says, I think this is the next right step for you?

• 47:11Speaker 04

  So I think this has been something that she's kind of had throughout her life. It's like been through like high school and through college. But I think she's kind of getting to that spot where she's like wanting to wanting to make a change or wanting to, you know, get into that spot. I think she's also had some of some of the same hesitations I've had where it's like, I mean, maybe not quite as extreme, like I hate taking any kind of medication and I don't want to get like anything, I don't know, it's just the way I am, I guess. But um, so I think she's she's a nurse, so she knows a lot about it. She's been through nursing school. I think she's been kind of more aware of like, oh, like maybe I'm kind of going through these and that's kind of where it's like, you know, she's like talked to like a counselor and those kind of things. And that's kind of I would presume exactly where it's coming from.

• 47:53Speaker 04

  But I wouldn't say like, just like looking up like, oh, how do I get happy on Instagram or whatnot, you know?

• 48:00Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, okay. That's that's good because she's got multiple contexts there. She's got lived experiences, she's got a therapeutic practitioner that's that's that's walking with her. And she has her own hesitancies. So this isn't just like a, ah, this will be an easy workaround from this way I can just keep doing, not doing the things I don't want to do, and this will just fix it. It won't. It will turn the alarms down a bit. And you're you're also right. We don't really have good markers for how SSRIs work, how they don't. There's been some of those studies that have said they wholly don't work or it's not actually serotonin.

• 48:40Dr. John Delony?

  Like, there's a lot of buzz out there, but there's also data that suggests people, there is a large percentage of people that get that are able to follow a path to wellness by being on them. So I will tell you, the particular physician I worked with, I will forever be grateful that this was his approach. It's only N equals one, it was only an approach with me, so I don't know if this is the universal approach, okay? I don't know enough about psychiatry. I get over my skis real fast when it comes to psychiatric interventions, okay? But his philosophy with me was, I'm going to take the lowest dose and cut it in half and we're going to work up.

• 49:24Dr. John Delony?

  And you're already, you've been anxious forever, you're already anxious, it's not like you're acutely suicidal, I wasn't. So we're going to work up and we're not going to just go to the highest dose and work down. We're not going to just numb you out, we're not going to just make you a walking zombie and then try to fix it from there. We're going to go as low as we can and work up. And what was beautiful about in my particular case, and this is only me, is I never had to move beyond that half, the half of the original low dose. And I would even go as far to say, even if it was placebo, I don't care because I got better.

• 50:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:06Dr. John Delony?

  Right? I got better. And I'll say this, I'm not opposed to getting to a place in the future where I would need to go back on it for a season. The other thing I had for for me and I recommend is have a, it's imaginary, you're just throwing spaghetti at the wall, but have an imaginary, like, we're going to do this for one year, we're going to do this for six months, and then we're going to reevaluate.

• 50:31Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 50:32Dr. John Delony?

  Right? So I told my doctor when I walked in, I will not put any medicine in my body that I don't have a exit strategy for. And I think I ended up on two times longer than I had said I was willing to do it, but I saw the benefits happening.

• 50:48Speaker 04

  That makes sense.

• 50:54Dr. John Delony?

  That makes sense.

• 50:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. I think some of the stuff, I'm just, you know, you see all the side effects and things like that, it's like, I'm like, it's so hard to like relate to her and that side of things where it's like, I just don't have a lived experience in that, I don't have struggles with that, like, is this something I've been very benefit, very beneficial not to have happened? But then you sit, sit there and you look, oh, there's all these side effects, all these black label warnings, and it's just like, that part, I guess scares me enough to be like, why would you try that? But I think as you like, as you had mentioned earlier, it's not like you need to be on them, it's like to get the chain unhooked, like that analogy made a lot of sense, it kind of allows, it's like, she still needs to do everything that, you know, is, I guess,

• 51:39Speaker 04

  recommended or healthy wise like that, but it's not like a just a magic pill that's going to do everything.

• 51:45Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, the analogy I use throughout the book is, all anxiety is, it's a fire alarm. And you and I have both been in buildings when the fire alarms are going off and there's no fire, and they're just going off so loud, you can't email, you can't tag, you can't do anything other than get out of that building. And so what anxiety medication does specifically is, it just turns down the alarm so you can actually have a conversation with the person next to you. And by the way, I don't want to live in a house that doesn't have a fire alarm. Right? That, so it's not about getting rid of anxiety. Anxiety is a net good. I need that in my life. I don't want to be in a building with no fire detectors. But it allows me to not have to deal with the fire alarm all the time, it allows me

• 52:29Dr. John Delony?

  to actually deal with what's on fire in my house.

• 52:31Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 52:32Dr. John Delony?

  Right? Health, finances, relationships, those type of things.

• 52:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:39Dr. John Delony?

  And so I will also say this, I think that anxiety and depression can run on the same trend line, but there's also a point when depression is a totally different animal.

• 52:50Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 52:51Dr. John Delony?

  And if she, doesn't sound like she's got major depressive disorder stuff, but there's some situations where medication is just a lifelong thing, and that's a net, thank God we live in a moment of history when that's possible.

• 53:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:04Dr. John Delony?

  Right? Because now you're talking life or death.

• 53:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, for sure.

• 53:08Dr. John Delony?

  And so it doesn't sound like that's where she's at. It sounds like it's just a vacillation between a constant push-pull between fight or flight. But that's, at this point, I got to step out and let her and her doctor navigate that together. But having a supportive partner that's with her saying, I don't understand this, how can I love you? This isn't my experience, how can I love you? And I'll, I'll, I'll challenge you on one thing, okay?

• 53:33Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 53:34Dr. John Delony?

  Um.

• 53:38Dr. John Delony?

  Anxiousness is expressed in weird ways. And coping strategies are bizarre, especially in our current culture. And what do I mean by that? One of the ways I dealt with anxiety was working like crazy. 20 hour days, three jobs at a time when I had no business working three jobs and getting a PhD on stuff like I ran and ran. And you know what I got for all of that? More money, pats on the back, promotions.

• 54:07Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 54:08Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And so for a season, what looked like I was crushing it up at 4:45 AM to go to the gym to start my full-time job so then I could go home and adjunct graduate classes and then I could get another PhD. I looked like I was a hero. What I was doing was fleeing at top speed. And so if you look at yourself and say, I don't feel any of this. A, you may have won the genetic lottery and that's awesome. I know people like that. Like some of my closest friends are like, I just don't feel that at all. And it's like, dude, the economy is imploding. And they're like, okay. You know, it's like, man, I would love to have that.

• 54:49Dr. John Delony?

  And also it may be that the way you, your natural, like your natural inclinations to deal with stress, to deal with frustrations, actually it's the same pathology. Working 20 hours a day can be the same thing as drinking too much. It's just one, we put you in rehab and one, we give you a million dollars and say, good boy. But they both kill you. So it may be you looking at your environment and saying, actually, I get pretty worried about stuff, but I choose to go buy a bunch of crypto, right? Or I get worried about stuff and I choose to just snort protein powder off the counter or whatever.

• 55:31Dr. John Delony?

  If you can find that in yourself, then it just gives you a bridge, a compassion bridge to your wife.

• 55:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 55:38Dr. John Delony?

  Right? My wife handles anxiousness by making lists and being very, very productive and I will get this list done. I experience anxiety as a thing in the future is happening right now and we gotta run. Right? And so one of those looks very productive. She looks like she's a baller. And one of them makes me look like I'm insane. They're both the same thing. Our bodies are just trying to solve that alarm system in different ways.

• 56:07Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 56:08Dr. John Delony?

  Right? So once we had that common, common, like the ability to like, oh, we have the same experience, it's just very different. Then, man, it was super, compassion was easy at that point.

• 56:19Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 56:21Dr. John Delony?

  But I've got some buddies that are like, dude, I just, I'd hate to be you, dude. I'm like, well, I would like to be you. So if that's you, awesome. But keep compassion with her and keep checking in for y'all to, how long have y'all been married?

• 56:37Speaker 04

  A little over a year now.

• 56:38Dr. John Delony?

  Sweet. Okay. I'm gonna send you the Together app too. Often, again, this is another bias I have from the work of William Glasser and others. I personally have come to believe that a lot of anxiety is relationship in origin. Whether it's relationship with primary caregivers, relationships with yourself, relationships with spouses or close friends, work relationships. A body that feels like I have to do it all by myself is a body that should be in terror. Or a body that feels like I've got a guy living next to me, but I'm not connected with him. Or I've got a wife next to me and I'm not connected with her. That's, that sends your body into spinning out.

• 57:21Dr. John Delony?

  And so I'm making this as like reductive as possible in this conversation, by the way. I'm trying to talk as least nerdy as possible, but all that to say is anxiety, I consider anxiety most often not the problem. Consider anxiety like to quote Wendy Suzuki out of NYU as a really annoying friend, as a friend that's just trying to get your attention. You're not safe, you're not safe, you're not safe. And medication is one of many tools in a toolkit that can help turn those alarms down so that a person can go do the next right thing.

• 57:54Speaker 04

  Makes sense.

• 57:56Dr. John Delony?

  So thanks for loving your wife really well, man. And best of luck to you. If she ever wants to call, have her give me a buzz, that'd be awesome. Hang on the line here, I'm gonna send you a couple of copies of Building a Non-Anxious Life for y'all too. It could be a roadmap for your family as y'all are starting your new, this new thing called being married together. And I'm gonna send you the Together app. It'll give you some action steps towards each other, which strengthens your relationship together like way below the surface. And it will have a ripple effect up through the trunk of the tree that is becoming your new family tree. Thanks for calling, brother. We'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp.

• 58:38Dr. John Delony?

  Every year you tell yourself you're going to handle this year's holidays differently. You're gonna stay calmer, you're gonna feel more peace, but then the same old patterns show up. The same family tensions, the same challenges you have to keeping healthy boundaries, and you find yourself cranky and tired and even snapping at people that you love. Listen, this year can be different. You still have time to get ahead of all of the chaos and understand what's behind your reactions. And you can develop a plan for moving through the holidays with peace. Therapy can help you build this healthier plan before you actually need it. When you're ready to have that conversation, check out BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform with more than 30,000 licensed therapists

• 59:22Dr. John Delony?

  across its network. This means you can find someone who can help you feel more peaceful this holiday season, help you develop a plan, or help you with whatever your needs and goals are. If the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch at any time for no extra cost. If you thought about trying therapy with BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide through participating providers. And eligible members have an average copay of just 23 bucks a session. Listen, you know what's coming. This year, you have time to keep calm ahead of all of the holiday chaos by preparing differently. Go to betterhelp.com/deloney to check out your payment options.

• 1:00:04Dr. John Delony?

  That's BetterHelp, H E L P dot com slash Deloney, or click the link in the description. All right. Am I the problem? Kelly, you're the problem because you're watching internet videos during the production of this show.

• 1:00:17Speaker 05

  I feel like I need to explain.

• 1:00:21Dr. John Delony?

  There's no explanation.

• 1:00:22Speaker 05

  Internet videos. While we're filming this, it is Fat Bear Week for those that choose to celebrate and participate like I do, like Alex does.

• 1:00:30Dr. John Delony?

  That means so many things.

• 1:00:32Speaker 05

  No, it doesn't. Fat Bear Week means one thing. It is Fat Bear Week and you vote. And we did, we voted on the finals today. But they have live, they have a trail camps. And so I was watching some of the fat bears eat. They're so cute. I mean, they would, you know, rip our throats out, but they're adorable.

• 1:00:54Dr. John Delony?

  Who, who, how, there has to be some federal oversight committee that, that regulates the establishment of weeks. We have a week or a month for everything.

• 1:01:08Speaker 05

  I agree. And there's, there is, yes, but this is fun. You get to vote on them and you get to see how, the whole thing is they show you a picture of the bear from, or the beginning of the summer when they were skinnier. And then they show you a picture of them like now as they're getting ready to go into hibernation. And the whole thing is you vote on who's fattened up the most.

• 1:01:27Dr. John Delony?

  Why do we not do this with people?

• 1:01:29Speaker 05

  I think that's frowned upon because people aren't about to go hibernate. These bears are gonna hibernate and not eat until spring.

• 1:01:39Dr. John Delony?

  I guess People Magazine kinda does this.

• 1:01:41Speaker 05

  There's a lot of websites and, you know, TMZ and all that.

• 1:01:45Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, TMZ kinda does that.

• 1:01:46Speaker 05

  These guys are doing it on purpose, these bears, because they're about to go hibernate.

• 1:01:50Dr. John Delony?

  So some just rando brown bear in, where, Alaska?

• 1:01:54Speaker 05

  Catmine National Park in Alaska.

• 1:01:56Dr. John Delony?

  Is just about to head off to the den, not knowing that you're the award-winning fatso.

• 1:02:01Speaker 05

  Probably Backpack. We feel like Backpack is gonna be the winning bear this year.

• 1:02:06Dr. John Delony?

  Backpack?

• 1:02:07Speaker 05

  Chunk won last year.

• 1:02:08Dr. John Delony?

  I just think this is demeaning.

• 1:02:11Speaker 05

  Well, they call him Backpack because when he was a baby, his mom carried him like all, all the time on her back. So some of them have names, most, some don't, they just have a number because they're tagged. I'm so glad I'm not the one having to tag that thing. But we're pretty sure that Backpack's gonna be the winner this year.

• 1:02:29Dr. John Delony?

  How's your marriage, Kelly?

• 1:02:31Speaker 05

  It's fine, thank you very much.

• 1:02:34Dr. John Delony?

  How's your friends? Do you have friends?

• 1:02:37Speaker 05

  I do, I have lots of friends. Thank you.

• 1:02:39Dr. John Delony?

  Agree to disagree. All right. So am I the problem?

• 1:02:43Speaker 05

  Yes, and, all right. So this is from Michaela in Columbia, South Carolina.

• 1:02:49Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 1:02:50Speaker 05

  And she writes, and this is kind of a serious one. I spoke up for a child that was being mistreated by the coach on my child's baseball team. The coach was being, the child was being disciplined by the coach and it went too far. I reached out to the child's mother who took the situation to the board of the league. The league wanted to speak with me since I witnessed the incident and I told them exactly what I told the child's mother. The league's response was a two-game suspension and a public apology before the coach can return to coaching. The child's mother is insistent that this isn't enough. I feel the punishment fits the offense, but the mother wants me to push to have the board do more, to do something more harsh with their decision.

• 1:03:31Speaker 05

  The board told her that she needs to drop it, that she didn't even witness the incident. The mother has asked me to quote unquote, side with her. She plans to reach out to law enforcement. I don't regret standing up for the child, but I am afraid that this is getting messier than it needs to be. Am I the problem for telling the mom to calm down and trust the board?

• 1:03:50Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, man. Yeah, that is a messy situation. Number one, I want to shout you out for standing up on behalf of a child. Big time. That was awesome. I think, I think you did your part. You reported this incident to the proper authorities who did what they believe was the right thing to do. But at the end of the day, this is not your child. And if this child's mother wants to continue to push for additional things, then it's her advocacy for her kid. It's not dragging you back into the middle of what you witnessed, you reported, it's been adjudicated and we're there.

• 1:04:29Speaker 05

  But she is trying to drag her back into it.

• 1:04:31Dr. John Delony?

  That's what I'm saying. So it's not you saying, drop it. You're a mom, this is your kid. You wanna, mama, bear this thing, knock your lights out. But I have done what my job was, was I saw a thing, I spoke up on behalf of a kid, told the proper people, and the people actually found this person responsible and gave a judgment. You don't like the judgment, this is your advocacy for your kid from this point forward. Because now it's not about the incident, it's about, I don't like what y'all did in response to this incident. And so we're talking about two different things here. And so I, I don't think it's, I don't.

• 1:05:08Dr. John Delony?

  I'm not gonna ever find myself telling a mom she needs to calm down when she's trying to advocate for her kid. I would, I have told many a mother and father, here's what this is gonna look like, and here's the futility of what you're gonna try to do, or here's, like, here's some other options, but I'm not gonna ever say, "Hey, you just need to drop it." Like, those, I don't usually say things like that.

• 1:05:25Speaker 05

  Right, so is Michaela in the wrong, though, for saying, "I'm out."

• 1:05:30Dr. John Delony?

  I'm out.

• 1:05:31Speaker 05

  I don't want to...

• 1:05:32Dr. John Delony?

  No, I think she's exactly right.

• 1:05:33Speaker 05

  Because I think what happened was appropriate, and I'm not going any farther. Because now she's wanting to go to law enforcement, that's a totally different...

• 1:05:39Dr. John Delony?

  Go to law enforcement, great.

• 1:05:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, but I'm not going.

• 1:05:41Dr. John Delony?

  And if law enforcement wants to subpoena her, or wants to investigate her, great. Then they can do that as part of their investigation. I don't even know if that would be necessary, they probably would, but the league already has the notes, and their judgments, and their vote, and why they chose to do what they do when it came to punishment, so, all that's already out there. But I think as a citizen, she did her job, and the job is now not to say, "I don't like the punishment," like, but if you, as a parent, don't want your kid in that league, pull them out. And if you, as a parent, say, "This isn't far enough, I think this person created, like, committed a criminal act against my kid," yeah, go pursue, go pursue law enforcement. But don't force the parent who stood up for your kid in that moment, yeah, I think that's,

• 1:06:26Dr. John Delony?

  I think that's right. So it's less about, "Hey, drop it," it's more about saying, "I am going to exit this conversation." I played my part, I actually, I wouldn't probably tell anybody this, but I think the punishment was fair for what happened, what I witnessed, and if that's not okay with you, great, you can pursue it to the end of the law. But I would step out of it from there, yeah. And I think that, to me, sounds right. What do you think?

• 1:06:50Speaker 05

  I agree, yeah, the mother can do as she pleases, yeah. But I think, yeah, you can't tell the mother what to do, or what you think the mother should do, or "Here's what I would do."

• 1:07:00Dr. John Delony?

  You can't say, "Here's what I'm gonna do."

• 1:07:01Speaker 05

  "Here's what I'm gonna do."

• 1:07:02Dr. John Delony?

  Right, yeah.

• 1:07:03Speaker 05

  Yeah, and then again, if you're subpoenaed, then you have to go from there.

• 1:07:06Dr. John Delony?

  Sure, or if you, yeah, have a detective show up at your door, then...

• 1:07:09Speaker 05

  And then you can tell them.

• 1:07:10Dr. John Delony?

  Tell them exactly what you saw.

• 1:07:11Speaker 05

  Exactly, yeah, but, yeah, she can't control what the mother does, and...

• 1:07:15Dr. John Delony?

  And conversely, the mother can't control what she does.

• 1:07:18Speaker 05

  Exactly, but I think she has every right, at this point, to say, "I'm out."

• 1:07:21Dr. John Delony?

  Yes.

• 1:07:22Speaker 05

  "I did my part."

• 1:07:23Dr. John Delony?

  That's right.

• 1:07:24Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:07:25Dr. John Delony?

  That's right, yeah, good call. Way to go, what was that woman's name?

• 1:07:27Speaker 05

  Michaela.

• 1:07:28Dr. John Delony?

  Michaela, well done. Thank you for standing up for kids that need adult presence. Good on you.