Pod Insights The Sporkful A Trunk Full Of Truffles (Reheat) About this episode We follow a young truffle dealer as he hustles his way across New York City selling white truffles out of a styrofoam cooler in his car for thousands of dollars a pop. Then we try to figure out why people pay so much for this funky fungus.
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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1:03 Dan Pashman? Hey, everyone. Dan here with the last Sporkful reheat of 2024. And you know, it's the holiday season, but it's also truffle season. And I think about this reheat all the time because I love truffles. I eat them maybe once a year, maybe even once every other year. Don't give me any truffle oil on your french fries, okay? Like, that's not actually truffles. It's like a synthetic compound, okay? Truffles are special. They're extremely expensive, and that's why I only eat them like, once a year or once every other year. And when I do it, I do it right. And at the same time, I think about this episode because we're going to dive into the musky, expensive, and surprisingly cutthroat world of truffle buying and selling. Now, I'm happy to report that Ian Prokayasta, the young scrappy truffle vendor you'll hear
1:45 Dan Pashman? from in this episode, is still selling truffles through his company, Regalus Foods. They got a whole lot of other incredible specialty items, too. And Ian did publish a memoir called Truffle Boy. Now, remember, if there's an episode of this Sporkful you want us to pull out of the deep freezer, let us know. Send us an email or voice memo to [email protected] . Tell me your name, location, what episode you want us to reheat, and why. Thanks so much, and enjoy our final reheat of the year.
2:12 Dan Pashman? Ian Prisciata tasted his first truffle when he was 15 years old. He was out at a fancy restaurant with a friend's family.
2:18 Speaker 01 The server came over and said, "Okay, we have a special for tonight, and it's a black truffle ravioli with a foie gras sauce." And it was music to my ears.
2:27 Dan Pashman? So why would a 15-year-old boy care about truffles? Well, Ian's family had just moved from Houston to rural Arkansas, and Ian had gotten really into foraging for mushrooms. For foragers, truffles are almost mythical. They're really hard to find because they grow underground around the roots of trees. They have this flavor and aroma that's just legendary. And of course, they're insanely expensive. So then in that restaurant, Ian ordered the truffle dish.
2:53 Speaker 01 There were chunks of black truffle in the ravioli. I mean, it was earthy, it was nutty, it was mysterious. It was this unknown flavor that I'd never tasted. That was it. I mean, it was like such a revelatory experience. You know, I can't even remember like, you know, where I parked the car yesterday, but yet I remember everything about this moment.
3:15 Dan Pashman? Ian became obsessed. He took all his savings and used it to buy a kilo of truffles on an Italian website. When they arrived, he realized he had gotten way more than he could eat. So he took the leftovers to a restaurant in town.
3:28 Speaker 01 I showed up on the doorstep with this bag of truffles and a scale I had bought at Target and an invoice book from Staples. And I said, "Hi, I'm Ian. I have some truffles. Would you be interested in buying some truffles?" And I don't know if it was the novelty of this, you know, buck-toothed 15-year-old kid walking in the door with a bag full of truffles, but I sold them and I made a profit.
3:51 Dan Pashman? And that moment is why my friend Stacy and I are standing in a walk-in refrigerator in Queens at 11:00 in the morning on a Tuesday, cracking open a shipment of white truffles that Ian's just flown in from Italy.
4:02 Speaker 02 So how much money is in this box?
4:05 Speaker 01 I don't know, $20,000?
4:07 Speaker 02 There's $20,000 in this styrofoam box.
4:10 Dan Pashman? Yep. $20,000 is about eight pounds of truffles. And Ian's got to sell all eight pounds by 5:00 PM today. That's when restaurants start the dinner rush. Oh, also, truffles don't keep.
4:29 Dan Pashman? Today on The Sporkful, we'll follow Ian as he hustles his way through some of the finest kitchens in New York selling truffles. We'll battle traffic, parking cops, smugglers, penny-pinching chefs, and the cruel mistress of time. We'll try to figure out why people go so crazy for this food, and how a 24-year-old who sells them out of the trunk of his car is on pace to do $6 million in sales this year. Stick around. This is The Sporkful. It's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show, we obsess about food to learn more about people. This episode is a special collaboration with our friends at NPR's Planet Money podcast, which means I get to have a co-host.
5:13 Dan Pashman? My friend Stacy Vanek Smith, Planet Money reporter, joins me. Hey, Stacy.
5:17 Speaker 02 Hi, Dan.
5:18 Dan Pashman? So, welcome.
5:19 Speaker 02 Thank you.
5:19 Dan Pashman? You ready to eat some truffles?
5:20 Speaker 02 So ready to eat some truffles.
5:21 Dan Pashman? All right, good, good. So, I should say, if you heard Stacy and me do the truffle story on Planet Money recently, the first part of this show is going to be very similar.
5:30 Speaker 02 But you can skip ahead to about the 21-minute mark for a whole other part that wasn't on Planet Money. And Dan and I really love this part because we get into this whole discussion about whether we like truffles more, just because they're expensive and kind of the aura around them. And I have to say, Dan, we get pretty deep.
5:46 Dan Pashman? Yeah, I think we could go so far as to say it's going to get metaphysical.
5:49 Speaker 02 We do, though.
5:53 Dan Pashman? Yeah, so stay tuned for that. But before we get to that, let's go over some facts. Truffles are a fungus, like mushrooms, although they are not actually mushrooms. Today, we're focusing on white truffles, which are the most expensive, most sought-after variety, because they have the strongest aroma and because they're the hardest to find. White truffles are only available from October to the end of the year, and they cannot be farmed or grown in a greenhouse. You can only get them by going out into the woods with an animal trained to smell them underground. That probably makes you think of pigs, but truffle hunters actually switched to using dogs a long time ago because the pigs wised up and started eating the truffles themselves.
6:32 Speaker 02 Right. In fact, I think it's illegal to hunt truffles with pigs in Italy.
6:35 Dan Pashman? That's right.
6:36 Speaker 02 But let's go back for now to that warehouse in Queens where Ian is inspecting the shipment of truffles he just received. So, he cuts the box open. It's this cardboard box covered in US Customs stickers.
6:49 Dan Pashman? What is this moment like for you, Ian?
6:51 Speaker 01 Pure anxiety, honestly.
6:54 Dan Pashman? That's because so many things can go wrong between the time the truffles come out of the ground in Italy and the time Ian gets them in Queens. They could get stolen, they could be left on an airport tarmac, the airline maybe doesn't refrigerate them properly, they could even have bugs.
7:08 Speaker 02 The truffles have already been on this amazing journey. I mean, two days ago, these were underground in a forest in Tuscany.
7:16 Speaker 01 I'm just removing all the ice packs from the top of the box.
7:20 Speaker 02 Oh, is that the smell?
7:21 Speaker 01 That is the smell.
7:23 Speaker 02 What do you think?
7:24 Dan Pashman? Oh my god, that smell.
7:26 Speaker 02 It's not good. It's like
7:30 Speaker 01 I love it.
7:30 Speaker 02 burnt something, it's like burnt.
7:32 Dan Pashman? To me, it's like mushrooms combined with dirty socks in a good way.
7:37 Speaker 02 What is dirty socks in a good way?
7:41 Dan Pashman? Ian takes out a truffle, he holds it up to the light, smells it. It's kind of round and lumpy, it's sort of golden white, it almost looks like Yukon Gold potatoes.
7:49 Speaker 01 This one is very nice.
7:51 Dan Pashman? Ian looks really relieved because he's banking on these truffles for his business, Regalus Foods.
7:56 Speaker 02 White truffles are only in season for about 12 weeks, and during that time, Ian makes most of his money for the year.
8:04 Dan Pashman? Ian puts the truffles into a dented Styrofoam cooler covered with packing tape, loads them into the trunk of his car, and we're off.
8:11 Speaker 01 All right, you guys ready? Do it.
8:16 Speaker 02 Ian needs to sell these $20,000 worth of truffles by 5:00 PM because that is when restaurants start gearing up for dinner.
8:22 Dan Pashman? Yeah, and if he doesn't do it, he's in trouble because literally every second that passes, the truffles are losing value.
8:29 Speaker 02 Right, because truffles are mostly water, and every moment that they are out of the ground, they are losing water, they're drying up.
8:36 Dan Pashman? So it's like with every red light that we hit, a few pennies fall out of your pocket?
8:41 Speaker 01 Pretty much. I would say I lose about 3% a day, so if we do the math, I'm probably gonna lose
8:51 Speaker 01 About $1,500 today. Just an evaporation loss.
8:56 Speaker 02 Just in the trunk.
8:57 Speaker 01 In the trunk.
8:58 Speaker 02 Do you think about that when you're sitting in traffic?
9:01 Speaker 01 I mean, I've learned not to.
9:03 Dan Pashman? A few red lights later, we arrive at Peoria in the West Village. It's noon.
9:08 Speaker 02 Are we backing down a one-way street?
9:09 Speaker 01 Illegally backing, yeah. I'm gonna back down the street. This guy is giving us the stink eye.
9:13 Speaker 02 So you're parking like in a red zone right now?
9:15 Speaker 01 I'm in a red zone.
9:16 Dan Pashman? How much money do you budget per year in parking tickets?
9:19 Speaker 01 It's probably $10,000.
9:20 Speaker 02 $10,000 a year in parking tickets? Really?
9:22 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:23 Speaker 02 You just park wherever you just gotta park. The truffles will not wait?
9:27 Speaker 01 They can't wait.
9:29 Dan Pashman? Ian jumps out of the car, grabs the Styrofoam cooler, balances his scale on top of it, and we rush into the restaurant.
9:35 Speaker 01 All right, let's make it quick.
9:42 Speaker 02 Hello, truffle man. Peoria is this really romantic, kind of airy restaurant, and the chef, Christopher Cipollone, meets us in the kitchen.
9:51 Dan Pashman? Ian's unwrapping the cooler right now. What are you thinking at this moment, chef, as he unwraps? What's going through your mind?
9:56 Speaker 03 I'm pretty excited. I'm always excited by what Ian brings me.
10:00 Dan Pashman? Chef Chris starts poking through the cooler, looking through the truffles.
10:04 Speaker 03 These are actually gorgeous. And we've been doing quite well with the truffles, my friend, so... We're doing a simple handmade ricotta straccinati, and we just blaze it in butter and pasta water, and then just shave the truffle tableside.
10:19 Speaker 02 How much is the dish?
10:20 Speaker 03 The dish is only $85. It's a steal.
10:23 Speaker 02 Dan, this blew my mind. I mean, think about it. This is like pasta and butter, which is basically what you feed a child who has the stomach flu. I mean, it is some of the cheapest food you can get anywhere. And Chef Chris is charging $85 for a plate of buttered pasta.
10:40 Dan Pashman? Well, buttered pasta with truffles on top.
10:42 Speaker 02 Yes.
10:43 Dan Pashman? And there is some logic to it because the idea is you want something kind of simple so that all the focus is on the truffles. You know, like you don't hang the Mona Lisa on a plaid wall. Right? You put it on a white wall with a big spotlight on it. And pasta with butter is the culinary equivalent of a white wall.
11:02 Dan Pashman? And how many grams of truffles go into that?
11:03 Speaker 01 Five.
11:04 Speaker 02 Five grams is the weight of a nickel. That is how expensive truffles are. For that amount, Chef Chris is paying Ian about $25. And he's charging his diners about $85. That is a $60 markup.
11:20 Dan Pashman? That's a powerful food right there.
11:21 Speaker 02 Yes, it is. And Chef Chris says people are happy to pay this amount because truffles are special. You can't get them all the time. Most places don't have them. And they're just excited to have this experience.
11:32 Speaker 03 Every year, people kind of love to see what we are doing with truffles this year and what kind of preparations we're doing.
11:40 Dan Pashman? Chef Chris buys just under a half pound of truffles, which is, I mean, just a few truffles, each one the size of a racquetball. We peeked over at the bill.
11:49 Speaker 02 That's a lot of money for truffles. $967.
11:53 Speaker 03 It'll be gone in a couple of days. It's all good.
11:55 Dan Pashman? So this whole time that we're talking to Chef Chris, Ian is texting madly on his phone, glancing toward the door every few minutes, tapping his toe on the floor. He hasn't even sold a pound of truffles yet. And we've got four and a half hours to go until the restaurants start dinner service. Ian packs up the truffles and we're off.
12:21 Speaker 02 And?
12:23 Speaker 01 And no ticket.
12:24 Speaker 02 No ticket.
12:25 Dan Pashman? The next deal went down, literally, on a street corner. Ian pulls over, private chef of a wealthy family comes out. They pop the trunk. She goes through the truffles. And within a couple of minutes, another sale.
12:40 Speaker 02 How'd it go?
12:41 Speaker 01 Good.
12:44 Speaker 01 Over $4,000 sold.
12:46 Speaker 02 $4,000?
12:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
12:48 Speaker 02 Between the private chef and Peoria, Ian has sold $5,000 worth of truffles. But he still has $15,000 more to sell. So we drive to the house of a hedge fund billionaire. Ian jumps out of the car, sells him a pound of truffles.
13:03 Dan Pashman? I guess, you know, he's got to put it in his coffee or something. You need that.
13:05 Speaker 02 Yes. By now, it is 1:30, and the dinner rush starts in three and a half hours.
13:12 Speaker 01 Almost there.
13:16 Speaker 02 So how are we doing so far clockwise?
13:18 Speaker 01 We're a little behind.
13:20 Dan Pashman? The whole time we're with Ian, he is just in the zone. I mean, he's texting, he's driving, he's making deals on the phone and in person. The guy just has so much focus. And he's only 24 years old, which I think Stacy reminded both of us that we are total failures.
13:34 Speaker 02 Also old.
13:35 Dan Pashman? Yes.
13:37 Speaker 02 But Ian's been doing this a long time. He came to New York when he was 18 years old. And at the time, he bought a minivan and he would load it up every day with truffles and fresh mushrooms.
13:48 Speaker 01 I would drive around to restaurants and beg chefs to come out to the van and take a look at what was inside my van. I was working 16-hour days, like hustling and, you know, I had so much stress, I was losing hair and I had this weird like acne flare up and I was embarrassed to like go outside and I would just make an entire vat of macaroni and cheese and basically just like watch Netflix and like cry myself to sleep on weekends. And it sucked.
14:15 Speaker 02 Things are much better for Ian these days. In fact, this year, he is on track to make $6 million in sales.
14:23 Dan Pashman? And the whole time we're driving around with him, I was just so struck by the contrast between those huge dollar figures that we keep seeing and hearing and just the ragtag nature of the operation itself. I mean, he's got these Styrofoam coolers in the back of a rental car because his other car broke down. He's 24 years old, sort of unshaven and looking somewhat sleep deprived. And so he has like more in common, it seems, with a mid-level weed dealer than a luxury food titan. But that's what he is. I mean, he just signed a multimillion-dollar deal with Williams Sonoma to sell truffle salt and truffle oil.
15:02 Speaker 02 But Ian told us he is never going to stop doing this fresh truffle hustle. It is the centerpiece of his business. It's how he makes most of his money and it's how he keeps up his relationships with the best chefs in New York, relationships that he made when he started selling mushrooms out of his minivan. In fact, one of his first customers who used to buy things out of his minivan is where we are headed next. That is Lure Fish Bar. And the chef is a guy named Josh Capeon.
15:28 Speaker 01 This is one chef that loves to bargain.
15:33 Dan Pashman? So what's your strategy going in, in a situation like this?
15:36 Speaker 01 Um, maybe start a little high, see what he says.
15:42 Speaker 02 We're double parked. We're going in.
15:45 Dan Pashman? All right, fingers crossed, no tickets.
15:49 Dan Pashman? The restaurant's packed, it's the middle of the lunch rush, so we wait a little while for the chef to come out. Ian sets down his cooler, he's still texting, texting, texting. And then finally, the kitchen doors open and the chef comes out.
16:00 Speaker 04 Hey Josh, how are you? What's up, buddy? My name, my name is Josh Capon. We are here at the legendary Lore Fish Bar with my good buddy Ian. Ian's actually in my phone as Ian Truffle Boy.
16:14 Dan Pashman? Chef Josh starts inspecting the truffles.
16:17 Speaker 04 It's always a pleasure to see him and what exciting, beautiful, and in this case gorgeous smelling white truffles from Piemonte, Tuscany. Tuscany, one of the truest beautiful pleasures of the world. I went there on my honeymoon. I stayed in a castle. It was stupendous. And just smelling these white truffles, I'm transported back to that castle with my wife where we drank champagne with fresh peaches off the trees and made love in the forest together amongst the hogs. Is this for radio or TV?
17:00 Dan Pashman? If it was for TV, I think that the screen just went dark.
17:02 Speaker 02 I think we just went NC-17.
17:05 Dan Pashman? Totally. So Chef Josh picks out a few truffles and piles them on Ian's little kitchen scale. And then they both start punching numbers into their own calculators on their phones.
17:15 Speaker 04 I'd say we knock this number down to 1,200 even.
17:18 Speaker 01 All right, we'll do it.
17:19 Speaker 04 $1,000 even.
17:20 Speaker 01 I can't say $1,000.
17:21 Speaker 04 Come on, 1,100.
17:23 Speaker 01 I can't.
17:24 Speaker 04 At the same time, look at that, look at that. Ladies and gentlemen, $14 just came off the bill. Amazing.
17:32 Speaker 02 Chef Josh buys five truffles for $1,200.
17:35 Dan Pashman? Josh says he plans to serve them tonight on a lobster risotto and on a special cheeseburger that he makes at his burger place across the street. The white truffles he puts on one burger cost him 22 bucks. Add in the other ingredients and it costs him about 27. Josh charges 68 for this special burger. Now, that might sound like a big markup, but the standard in restaurants is to charge three times the cost of the food. That's how you cover other expenses like staff and rent. If Josh charged triple his cost for this truffle burger, he'd be charging $81 instead of 68. So actually, if you're in the market for truffles, this burger's kind of a bargain. And Josh says it has quite a reputation.
18:17 Speaker 04 You gotta, just come have the white truffle burger at Burger and Barrel. It'll literally blow your mind.
18:22 Speaker 02 We rush back to the car. Ian still has about $12,000 worth of truffles left to sell. And it's 2:30.
18:30 Dan Pashman? Our next stop is Minetta Tavern. It's a well-known, pretty high-end place in the West Village. The chef is Dan Silverman. He's a tall, kind of reserved guy. He says he's been seeing a lot of truffle dealers around lately.
18:41 Speaker 03 This time of year, people just, yeah, people just wandering off the street with like checkered cloth, bundles, full of truffles. There's just like random people always, every year. Smugglers, yeah. Probably. I like to buy from the people that I know.
18:57 Dan Pashman? And here's the thing, there are Ians all over New York City right now. You could be passing one on the street right now with a backpack full of 20 grand worth of truffles. And some of these people are from other companies, but a lot of them are just hustlers. They're walking from one restaurant to another with a backpack full of truffles that they smuggled from Europe.
19:15 Speaker 02 And you could see why they would do this. I mean, one truffle can cost $1,000. And you can fit a lot of truffles into a suitcase. When we get back in the car, Ian tells us, yeah, there are a lot of truffle smugglers in New York right now. And they've really hurt his business.
19:29 Dan Pashman? They cut out the middleman. They don't pay customs fees. And they've cut his profits in half. Ian says he used to make 20% profit on truffles. Now, more like 10%.
19:39 Speaker 01 Ritzy restaurants, like the, you know, the 2 and 3 Michelin-starred restaurants are the ones that love to negotiate because they're getting so many. So many different truffle people in the door trying to sell them product that they have a choice of who they buy from.
19:54 Dan Pashman? At this point, it's 3:30 and Ian's got to leave us. He's got 90 minutes left to unload like $10,000 worth of truffles. And let's face it, Stacy, we were slowing him down.
20:04 Speaker 02 So Ian drops us off in Soho. And at this point, we are both starving and we both smell like dirty socks.
20:11 Dan Pashman? In a good way.
20:12 Speaker 02 In a good way.
20:13 Dan Pashman? Stacy, in a good way.
20:14 Speaker 02 Take your word for it.
20:15 Dan Pashman? Right.
20:16 Speaker 02 And I mean, we've been watching thousands of dollars change hand for these truffles. And I still have never tried one. I have no idea what the fuss is all about.
20:23 Dan Pashman? That's right, Stacy. And because we're consummate journalists, we head to Burger and Barrel to try Chef Josh Capon's $68 Truffle Burger.
20:29 Speaker 05 This is the third week that we've been getting in white truffles. And in honor of that, we're doing our famous white truffle burger. I highly recommend it.
20:37 Speaker 02 I would like to order that.
20:40 Dan Pashman? Our burgers arrive and they are beautiful. The truffles are sliced thin and fanned out over the top of the burger so you can see them. Five grams, apparently, worth of truffles. We took our bites.
20:53 Speaker 02 OK, this is it. This is the big moment.
20:56 Dan Pashman? I'm going in.
20:57 Speaker 02 I don't know how to describe it. It's like shoes. It tastes like shoes, smoked shoes.
21:02 Dan Pashman? I told you, dirty socks in a good way.
21:05 Speaker 02 Yeah.
21:05 Dan Pashman? See?
21:06 Speaker 02 It came back around.
21:08 Dan Pashman? Yeah.
21:08 Speaker 02 Dirty socks in a good way.
21:10 Dan Pashman? Right.
21:10 Speaker 02 It does taste like dirty socks in a good way. It's the best description.
21:16 Speaker 02 I'm sorry, I doubted you.
21:19 Speaker 02 I'm in.
21:19 Dan Pashman? All right.
21:20 Speaker 02 I'm in. What is it about that dirty sock taste that is so good? Like, what was it about that flavor that made Ian devote his life to truffles? To start to understand this, we reached out to Avery Gilbert. He is a smell scientist. And he told us that one big factor in the taste of truffles is this molecule called androstenone.
21:41 Speaker 06 It's a natural component of human body odor in sweat and urine, often more in males and females. So it's androstenone by itself has a kind of musky, urine-like, almost, character.
21:55 Speaker 02 Do we love truffles because they smell like us? Is it like a person? Is that why we react so viscerally to them?
22:02 Speaker 06 I think that's some of the draw. Body odor notes in general are very salient for us. It's how we choose our mates. It's how we recognize kin. And possibly part of the allure of truffles is that it's a body odor, but it's showing up in your food.
22:18 Dan Pashman? Avery says farmers will spray female pigs with androstenone to get them in the mood.
22:24 Speaker 02 The thing that we most want from the finest, fussiest restaurants in the world is sweat, sex, and urine. That is why we love truffles so much.
22:34 Dan Pashman? You'd think it'd be easier to replicate.
22:35 Speaker 02 And cheaper.
22:38 Dan Pashman? Yeah, totally. But I do think there's also something about this high-low combination with the way the restaurants get the food. It's like one of their finest, most desired ingredients, and they're getting it in this sort of sketchy, back alley kind of way.
22:51 Speaker 02 Right. People wandering and off the street with napkins full of truffles or styrofoam coolers. Speaking of which, we checked back in with Ian to see how the rest of his day had gone.
23:01 Dan Pashman? Yeah, and he probably should have kept us around a little bit longer because we were his good luck charm. And after he left us, his car got towed.
23:07 Speaker 02 With $5,000 worth of truffles in the trunk.
23:11 Dan Pashman? Right, which is like your car getting towed with $5,000 worth of cash in the trunk.
23:15 Speaker 02 Cash that is disintegrating.
23:16 Dan Pashman? Right.
23:17 Speaker 02 But this is where all of Ian's calls and texting that he'd been doing all day paid off, because he'd actually been taking orders from chefs all over the country for any leftover truffles he might have. So as soon as he got his car out of the impound lot, he sped to the FedEx office at JFK Airport.
23:32 Dan Pashman? And in Ian's world, this is a buzzer beater, because there, in the parking lot, he packed up the truffles and got them sent out just before the final FedEx deadline, which means that if you recently ate truffles in Chicago, or LA, or San Francisco, it's quite possible that they were packed up in the trunk of Ian's car.
24:01 Dan Pashman? So, everything you just heard, I played it for Mrs. Porkful, and she said to me, "Bull." She said, "The only reason you think truffles taste good is because they're expensive. If you took a blind taste test, you wouldn't know what you were eating. You're a sucker." Or maybe she wasn't that harsh, but that was her basic point. So, was she right? Coming up, Stacy and I will debate that question with smell scientist Avery Gilbert. Stick around.
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26:56 Dan Pashman? And it just adds that little bit of toastiness. And I got this new Quince Packable Puffer Vest. I love that you can just squish it up and shove it in the bottom of your bag. That way, you have it with you all day. If it gets a little chilly, break out the vest. I also got a Quince Down Quilted Vest. It is so soft and cozy. They make them for men and women. And as with everything you get at Quince, they focus on high-quality staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, 14-karat gold, and Italian leather. These are all timeless, versatile pieces that feel special to unwrap and become everyday favorites long after the holidays. Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns,
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27:52 Dan Pashman? Welcome back to another Sporkful Reheat. I'm Dan Pashman. Hey, if you want to hear what I'm eating and reading every week, you should sign up for the Sporkful newsletter. I'll give you my weekly recommendations, and so do our producers and the whole rest of our team. We also share announcements about exciting things happening with the show, when there's special discounts on my pastas. And on top of all that, if you subscribe to the newsletter, you're automatically entered into giveaways for cookbooks featured on the show, as long as you live in the US or Canada. There's literally no downside. Sign up right now at sporkful.com/newsletter. I promise we won't spam you. We're only going to send you really good stuff. Again, that's sporkful.com/newsletter. Thanks. Now back to this week's reheat.
28:31 Dan Pashman? Now I want to welcome back my co-host for this episode, Stacy Vanek Smith from Planet Money. Hey Stacy.
28:35 Speaker 02 Hi Nan.
28:36 Dan Pashman? So in order to figure out whether those truffle burgers actually tasted as good as we thought they did, we first have to talk just a bit about the way we decide how something tastes.
28:46 Speaker 02 Right. I mean, you might think about taste as something that just happens in your mouth, or in your nose and your mouth, but researchers now say that taste is really something that happens in your brain. And according to smell scientist Avery Gilbert, our brains are taking in a lot of information while we're eating.
29:01 Speaker 06 The taste of your food can be altered by things like the color of the plate, or the weight of the cutlery, or the color of the tablecloth, the ambient music that's being played. Ambient music can change the flavor of your beer, and it can change your evaluation of the wine you're drinking as well. So all of this stuff is kind of feeding into your appreciation and evaluation of a dish.
29:26 Dan Pashman? Tell me about the role that the price, knowing what a food costs, how does that affect the way I perceive something I'm eating?
29:35 Speaker 06 Knowing the price will change your perception of a product's quality, whether we're talking about perfume, or wine, for example. Two wines that are equally pleasant to people when they're blindfolded, then you tell them about the price, or the brand name, for that matter, of one, and they'll like that one suddenly much more, especially if they've paid for it.
29:54 Dan Pashman? If I told a person, here's a $50 plate of truffles, and here's a $100 plate of truffles, which do you think tastes better? Most people are going to say, the $100 plate tastes better, even if it's the same truffles in both plates, right?
30:06 Speaker 06 Yeah, yeah, on average, you're going to get higher ratings with the more expensive plate.
30:09 Dan Pashman? Right. There's an assumption that when you go out and spend more for a product, that you would not have been able to identify the difference in a blind taste test, that you are somehow a rube.
30:20 Speaker 06 That's, yeah, that's wrong. It's a common presumption, though. The blind taste test, psychologists like me come along, and too often, it's a matter of coming into a nice sterile white lab, and you put on a blindfold, and somebody puts a tube in front of your nose, and they say, smell this. Do you like it? How the hell would I know? What is it? It's an unnatural act, because you've stripped away all the context, all the multisensory context, all the other information that you're naturally drawing on when you make an evaluation like this.
30:50 Speaker 02 Is there nothing? Like, real there, though? Is it all just perception? Because Dan and I, just, we paid $68 for cheeseburgers, which is more than I've ever paid for a cheeseburger. I mean, and it sounds like you don't, I mean, did we get ripped off?
31:04 Speaker 06 No, you had the perception, and if it was enjoyable, it was worth it.
31:09 Dan Pashman? Whatever you pay for an eating experience, if you come away from that experience feeling that it was worth it, if your brain tells you that you got $68 worth of pleasure from that, then inherently, it was worth it.
31:24 Speaker 02 But there is, like, I feel like, a certain, like, concrete element in the value of a food. I mean, in the truffles, there is a scarcity. They can't grow them. They are hard to get. I mean, there are actual factors, as opposed to if I just gave you, like, a slice of American cheese, and you ate it, and you were like, wow, that seems like I got $60 worth of pleasure out of that. Is it really, is it just the story of the truffle and the mystique of the truffle that is causing the cost? It's not like that it actually is some flavor that does something cool to our emotions that, I mean, because I am sort of compelled by the fact it smells human. I feel like there's something there.
32:01 Speaker 06 That's, I think that, you put your finger on it. That's the key. Story and mystique are all fine, and we, you know, every perfume company tries to create that for its brands, and certain wines have that about them, but it's just the weirdness factor of what it smells and tastes like, and then it's in food. What I'm struggling with is how much of a minority taste it is, the people that like truffles and are willing to spend big on them. I mean, it would be quite a reveal if it turns out it's just Palo Alto billionaires and Russians with mega yachts. But if it's regular folks who, when they have a chance to get it and can, you know, pay three, four times the usual price, do it, that speaks to me of something of value
32:46 Speaker 06 intrinsically in the sensory experience.
32:48 Speaker 02 I think there's something to the pigs. I think the pigs are the key. Or maybe I just cannot believe that I was duped by the whole story.
32:55 Dan Pashman? I think that there's a third way, Stacy.
32:57 Speaker 02 Okay, tell me.
32:58 Dan Pashman? You're saying that, you're suggesting there's a choice between either of these things are, we have a natural, pig-like predisposition to crave this flavor or smell.
33:08 Speaker 02 Yes.
33:09 Dan Pashman? That option one, that's, you know, that there's objective truth here.
33:11 Speaker 02 Yes.
33:12 Dan Pashman? And option two is, if not, then we're just all a bunch of suckers who are paying all this money for something that we don't really have any appreciation for.
33:18 Speaker 02 Yes.
33:20 Dan Pashman? I think that there's something in between those two. Which is that we do have a true appreciation for this rare flavor. There is an experience on your tongue and in your nose that's taking place that tastes really good. As Avery has told us, you need that. Like, to say that anything you're eating tastes amazing, you have to have that first. Then, in addition to that, there is everything your brain is telling you.
33:47 Speaker 02 Yes.
33:47 Dan Pashman? How much it costs, the story you're going to be able to tell your friends that you got to eat this special food, knowing that everyone else wants this but either can't find it, or can't get it, or can't afford it. And then the knowledge that you are indulging yourself.
34:02 Speaker 02 Yes.
34:03 Dan Pashman? And so, all of those things in your brain are added on top of the objective truth of the good flavor, and you reach this higher plane of deliciousness. And then you say, well, was it worth it? And at that point, if your brain says, yes, this entire experience was worth it, then you have not been duped.
34:37 Dan Pashman? Stacy, any final thoughts?
34:39 Speaker 02 I will say this, I would be sad if they figured out how to cultivate white truffles. I really like the idea that there is still this thing in the world that is sort of mystical and mythical and wild and can only be found with dogs in the forests of Tuscany.
34:53 Dan Pashman? Right. Or, you know, eventually soon, robots.
34:56 Speaker 02 Drones, yes. Truffle hunting drones.
34:58 Dan Pashman? All right. Well, our thanks also to Ian Priscaytha of Regalus Foods. He has a book coming out in February, all about his rise to truffle glory. You can preorder it now. It's called Truffle Boy.
35:07 Speaker 02 Thanks also to Helen Holliman, editor in chief of the great website Munchies. She put us in touch with Ian.
35:13 Dan Pashman? And thanks to you, Stacy Vanek Smith. This was a lot of fun.
35:16 Speaker 02 Thank you, Dan.
35:17 Dan Pashman? This show is a production of WNYC Studios in the Sporkful. It was produced by Shoshana Gold and Elizabeth Koulas. Editing help from Dan Charles. Music help from Black Label Music. Special thanks to Paula Schuman and to Alex Goldmark, Brian Urstadt, Robert Smith, and all our friends at Planet Money. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.
35:33 Speaker 05 And I'm Edward Lindsey Hall III from Lynchburg, Virginia. And I'm Gretchen in Amsterdam. And I'm Brent from Vine Hill, California. Reminding you to eat more. Eat better. And eat more better.
35:50 Speaker 06 I mean, from a chemical point of view, the fact it's got androstenone and a couple of other related molecules, there aren't a lot of foods that have that. In fact, if you get androstenone in ham, in a pork product, it's called boar taint, and it's usually discarded because it's super bad.
36:06 Dan Pashman? Wait, I'm sorry. We gotta rewind for a second. Are you telling me that the exact same molecule that makes truffles so prized when in ham is called boar taint?
36:19 Speaker 06 Yeah.
36:23 Dan Pashman? This reheat was produced by Gianna Palmer. The team that produces The Sporkful today includes me along with managing producer Emma Morgenstern. And senior producer Andres O'Hara. Our engineer is Jared O'Connell. The Sporkful is a production of Stitcher Studios. Our executive producers are Nora Ritchie and Colin Anderson. And hey, did you know you can listen to The Sporkful on the SiriusXM app? Yes, the SiriusXM app, it has all your favorite podcasts, plus over 200 ad-free music channels curated by genre and era, plus live sports coverage. Does your podcasting app have that? And there's interviews with A-list stars and so much more. It's everything you want in a podcast app and music app all rolled into one. And right now, Sporkful listeners can get three months free of the SiriusXM app by going to siriusxm.com/sporkful. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.
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