Pod Insights Snap Judgment The Cloak of Good Fortune - Snap Classic About this episode Sieu is a young boy living in the big city of Phnom Penh, but he misses his old life in the Cambodian countryside. The air, the farms, but mostly… the animals. When the Khmer Rouge promises a return to the land, Sieu has no idea how far he and his family will have to go.
This story recounts aspects of the Khmer Rouge civil war including scenes of torture and death. Sensitive listeners, please be advised.
BIG thanks to Sieu Do for sharing your story with us! There is so much that we were not able to share with you about Sieu and his family’s incredible journey. To find out more check out his book, A Cloak of Good Fortune. https://www.amazon.com/Cloak-Good-Fortune-Cambodian-paradise/dp/1733181903
Produced by Nikka Singh, original score by Renzo Gorrio, artwork by Teo Ducot
Snap Classic - Season 15 - Episode 54
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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2:26 Glynn Washington? My mother and I, ever since I was a teenager, we haven't really been on the same page. About religion, values, relationships, nothing really. We haven't been able to close this circle. And that's why a story that a friend of mine, she told a little while ago, why it was such a gift to me. A long time ago, before Uber, before everybody had a cell. My friend, she was flying into Detroit and couldn't get ahold of me. I was at my mama's place for some reason, so she called my mother. She asked if I was gonna come pick her up from the airport. And my mama said, "I have no idea, baby. I don't know what that boy's up to."
3:10 Glynn Washington? And my friend's like, "Oh, no. He said he was gonna pick me up." And then my mom's was like, "Oh, honey, if he said he was gonna do it, that's different. You ain't got nothing to worry about. It's already done. He gonna meet you wherever he said he gonna meet you. Believe that. Because that boy, that boy's a blessing." And when my friend told me this story, I had to stop her. Wait a minute. My mother said "I" was a blessing? Are you sure that's the word she used? Because that word means something very specific to my mama. "I told you." She said you were a blessing. Then I had to be quiet for a while and sit with that
3:55 Glynn Washington? because I never had any notion she thought of our relationship as anything other than a challenge, an obstacle, maybe even a burden. But she views our situation very differently, as a blessing to her. And since then, I've tried to use her word for our quarrels, for our misunderstandings, even for our silences. A blessing. I've tried to use it in all sorts of situations. And it turns out that I am wrapped in more blessings than I ever imagined.
4:37 Glynn Washington? For Dan Snap Judgment, one story from one person who counts his own blessings in a way I never would have imagined. We proudly present The Cloak of Good Fortune.
4:51 Glynn Washington? My name is Dan Washington, and I will not pick you up from the airport
4:56 Glynn Washington? when you're listening
5:00 Glynn Washington? to Snap Judgment.
5:40 Glynn Washington? We begin in the capital of Cambodia, where a young boy is just starting to see the effects of a simmering conflict and know that this journey recounts aspects of the Khmer Rouge Civil War that have been erased from history. The tortures, the deaths, the sacrifices. And while sensitive listeners should be advised about this very real backdrop, please understand that at its heart, today's story is about a kid trying to make his way.
6:12 Glynn Washington? Snap Judgment.
6:14 Speaker 01 We begin to see people gathering on the street and then carrying their belongings. So my mom stopped them and asked, "What's going on?" And they told us that they escaped to the city for their safety.
6:32 Speaker 01 The rumor was that there was wars going on in the countryside.
6:40 Speaker 02 Su had grown up in a village in the Cambodian countryside. And if he'd had any choice in the matter, he'd still be there.
6:47 Speaker 01 Where I grew up in Kampung Spu, at that time, me and my brother was running, laughing, swimming and catching fish and shrimps at the river and ducking clams at the hot sands. And we have so much fun. I just miss that so much. And I don't really like the city life at all.
7:12 Speaker 02 Su's parents were well-educated. They spoke multiple languages and wanted even more for their four kids. So they moved the family to Phnom Penh, the capital of Cambodia. There, Su had private tutors, learning French, Chinese, and Cambodian. He even went to three different schools.
7:30 Speaker 01 So, one afternoon after school, on the way back home, I passed by a store and I saw hatching baby ducklings.
7:43 Speaker 01 It was amazing to see all those living beings coming out, so sweet. And I stood by the window and looked at the store and no one was there, but only the baby duck was like, you know, running in the tray. And then I heard something. Beep, beep, beep, something like that. And then I thought, wait a minute. I thought the ducklings are in the tray, in the room, inside their store. How could I hear something outside?
8:14 Speaker 02 In the alley beside the shop, Su saw a large trash can, and it was overflowing with hundreds of crushed gooey eggshells.
8:22 Speaker 01 I hate the smell because it's so dirty. But I heard that sound come from that can. So I was curious. Something must be going on in this trash can. And so I stepped forward to remove the cover. And I looked carefully. Then I saw something was moving.
8:42 Speaker 01 I decided to put my hand inside the trash can and I never do this before because I don't like dirty things. And it was yellow color.
8:52 Speaker 02 So half buried in that trash was a little peeping duckling and it was still alive.
8:59 Speaker 01 At first, I didn't see the duck's face carefully. I only see the body was still moving. And I thought, oh my god, that was a baby duck. It's just like about the size of my thumbs. And all my thought is about helping this little creature to make sure that he's safe and alive. I don't want him to die. But when I look carefully, oh my god, he's big. It's deformed. It's not normal. And there was bubble coming out from his nose. I was worried that he was choking. Then I immediately peel out all the shells and all the slimy saliva, something.
9:41 Speaker 01 I just wash it away with my hand to make sure that he could breathe.
9:47 Speaker 01 He was trembling and shaking and I was putting him against my chest with my two hands wrapping around him. And I ran straight home.
10:00 Speaker 01 So the moment my mom saw it, she's like, oh my god, he's so ugly. And I told my mom, he's just a little duck. Please don't say that he's ugly. I just told my mom like that. And so my mom said, okay, okay, so what do you want me to do for this little baby duck? I was so worried that she's going to reject me to take care of this little duckling. I said, Mom, I promise you, please, I promise you, I won't bother you. I will take care of him myself. And all I need is just a little box and give him some food to make him stay healthy.
10:42 Speaker 01 I decided to name him Curly Beak. Because his beak on the top is curly, like this, open. So it's hard for him to eat, you know. So I have to nurse him, I have to feed him. So I got like a syringe and I pumped some rice juice and I injected into his mouth three times a day as a meal for him.
11:08 Speaker 02 Each day that Sue fed him, Curly Beak got bigger and got stronger. And soon, he was running around on his own.
11:15 Speaker 01 Whenever I look at him, he know that this is the time that he can get food. So he always like speeding up toward me. And sometime, I let him jump to my lap and sit down so I can pat him.
11:32 Speaker 01 So I love Curly Beak very much. And I feel like we both have the same fate. Because the day I was born, there was a lot of chaos.
11:43 Speaker 02 Like Curly Beak, Sue almost wasn't. The day he was born, nothing was according to plan. The taxi somehow showed up and got a flat tire and didn't have a spare in sight. And there was no local doctor that could make it to their small house in time. So his grandmother was just rushing around the street, trying to find anyone to help.
12:02 Speaker 01 And finally, she found a midwife. And she brought her to my mom and helped her delivery.
12:10 Speaker 01 And she pulled me out from my mother's womb. And because I was still encaged in the amniotic sac, my grandmother declared I was born with a cloak of good fortune.
12:28 Speaker 02 And growing up, he actually learned to believe that.
12:31 Speaker 01 I have a feeling like wherever I go, I'm not starving at all. I'm not afraid of getting harmed because I feel like...
12:43 Speaker 01 I was born protected.
12:46 Speaker 02 So he went all over, wandering the streets of Phnom Penh, sometimes by himself and other times with a friend.
12:53 Speaker 01 Chabli is a special friend of mine. He's a very artistic. He draw cartoon very special. He draw beautiful pictures. So he said, "Sue, let's go to my house. I have lots of picture I want to show you." And that was after school. It was around like 3:30. And we were walking back to his home near a theater called Kim Hong. That theater is very well-known in our city. And so on the way back, the street was very crowded and bicycling. It was like people get off from school, parent pick up kids, you know. It's very crowded. And I was very happy, talking and laughing. I was very excited.
13:35 Speaker 01 And as soon as we passed by the Kim Hong's theater, suddenly it was like boom, boom like that. And Chabli and I was like, "Oh, my God, what's going on here?" And we heard a doll say, "Lay down, lay down flat on the ground." And I realized, "Oh, my God, that was bomb." And then we saw people rush out from the theater and people screaming. There was blood all over the body and the whole neighborhood was in a chaos.
14:03 Speaker 01 I was trembling. I said, "We have to go home." So I just jumped and ran home.
14:09 Speaker 01 The war has been raging for the past many years. But then this time, as I'm running home, I realized that
14:21 Speaker 01 the war is now here in the city.
14:25 Speaker 02 He ran through the smoke and the debris, stumbling over abandoned bicycles and bodies as he made his way home.
14:33 Speaker 01 My mom was standing at the door, waiting for me to come home, and she gave me a hug right away there.
14:40 Speaker 02 He was home safe, but the bombs kept coming. They all hid in their house, and Sue stopped going out to school. Then there was this one morning in spring where something felt different.
14:54 Speaker 01 So, one day, no more bomb explosion. We saw soldiers wearing black pants and shirts and wearing red towel kramah and holding AK-47. And they were our hero. When we were so happy, we were running out on the street. We clap our hands, we scream, shouting, cheering. "Jyo, Jyo!" "Jyo" is like "Bravo, Bravo!" "Serepib, Serepib!" Like "Peace, Peace!" Some people calling in French, "Labe, Labe!" And welcome them as they marched into our city.
15:36 Speaker 01 And then I look around like, "Wow, this is so beautiful. The country has no more war." I was like, I was almost in tears. Like, people are so yearning for peace for so many years. Now it's really come. Our dream is coming true now. I can go back to school. I can get my normal life again. I can live a normal life again without any worry about the war.
16:02 Speaker 02 The Khmeru soldiers had secured the capital, and their trucks and armaments rolled in.
16:09 Speaker 01 We saw soldiers were all over in our neighborhoods, and we were still happy. And one of the soldiers put a megaphone at his mouth.
16:22 Speaker 01 "People of Phnom Penh, our capital city has been liberated by our courageous soldiers. You must all leave home right now. The American people is going to drop bombs. You don't need to take your belongings. You will come back home in three days. Long live Kampuchia!
16:47 Speaker 01 Suddenly, everybody became chaotic on the street, and I didn't know what happened. So I just, I began to run home.
17:00 Glynn Washington? Don't go anywhere, snappers. On Return, find out what happens to Su, his family, and the capital of Phnom Penh. Stay tuned.
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20:08 Glynn Washington? Welcome back to Snap Judgment, the Cloak of Good Fortune episode. Since of listeners should note, the following segment does include depictions of war, including the death of animals and people. The last we left, Su just heard the order to evacuate the city from Le Camer Rouge.
20:28 Speaker 01 Suddenly, everybody became chaotic on the street and I didn't know what happened. So I just, I began to run home.
20:39 Speaker 02 When Su got back to his house, his family was already scrambling.
20:43 Speaker 01 I didn't know what to take, but then mom said, hey, Su, get your white striped shirt and one for your brother, too. Those shirts can protect you from mosquito bite and the sunburn. And so I ran there too into my closet and grabbed two striped shirts, one for my brother Chen and one for me.
21:02 Speaker 02 He packed 10 sardine cans and his favorite pair of sandals. He also tried to grab his two favorite chickens, but once he actually held them in his hands, he knew he wouldn't be able to carry them.
21:13 Speaker 01 And so I went down to my kitchen. I grabbed a lot of rice and I took it upstairs and I threw a lot of rice in the cage for them to eat. Usually I don't feed them like that. I want to make sure that three days is enough for them to eat. So I say goodbye to them and they seems to understand something is going wrong.
21:33 Speaker 02 He left his house and he and his family joined the throng of people walking towards the Monty Von Bridge. It would carry them out of the city and back into the countryside.
21:43 Speaker 01 And so we marched along the road with thousands and thousands of people. The street, the street, there was no space for you to sit down. Everyone was just like, like, like, like move forward toward the countryside. And Mama and Papa kept telling me that you have to look around for someone. Look around for, for, for our relative, for your grandma, for your uncle, if you find them. You know, everybody screaming and shouting on the street, looking for their loved one. And I saw kids like get lost on the street, like five or six years old, crying, screaming. The whole scene was just unbelievable.
22:27 Speaker 02 The Khmer Rouge soldiers were surrounding them, funneling them over the bridge.
22:31 Speaker 01 As we walked by them, I was holding my grandfather's hand. And their AK-47 pointing at us, holding their megaphone, shouting at us. Keep going, no stop. Keep going, no stop.
22:55 Speaker 01 As the night began to get darker, we would all stop on the road. And we sat on the black asphalt. Everybody was jammed on the street. There was no place for us to stretch our body. We have to sit and cuddle each other. And my mom and my father told us that, don't worry, we just hang in there. We can make it. We will return home in three days.
23:34 Speaker 01 I was startled awake by a loud noise. It's time to move forward. Keep going forward.
23:42 Speaker 05 American is going to drop bombs.
23:45 Speaker 01 So we have no choice. We keep moving forward.
23:50 Speaker 02 They stayed on the road marching, stopping only to eat their ration of rice gruel.
23:55 Speaker 01 Only a little bit of rice and full of water.
23:58 Speaker 02 To lay down and try and sleep.
24:00 Speaker 01 I couldn't walk anymore. I was trembling.
24:05 Speaker 02 And all along the way, they would run into the Khmer Rouge, who would force them to gather for re-education.
24:11 Speaker 01 The first meeting we had with the Khmer Rouge soldiers was at the temple.
24:18 Speaker 01 There was a bonfire. We were there with a couple Khmer soldiers standing there and telling us that we have to think to Anghar.
24:30 Speaker 05 We must think to Anghar. We have won the war. But we must work harder. There's a lot to be done. Because cutting a weed is not enough. It must be pulled up by the roots. We have to rebuild our country.
24:48 Speaker 02 The Khmer Rouge had a plan to erase all the trappings of the society: the culture, the music, and especially any outside influence. They were going to make the country start again at year zero.
25:01 Speaker 05 Remember, the land is our school, the soil is our paper, the plough is our pen. We will write our history in our blood and sweat. Revolutionary Army, long live Kampuchea! Long live Kampuchea!
25:20 Speaker 02 Even though they were always hungry and utterly exhausted, they shouted along out of fear. Because if their revolutionary spirit wasn't strong enough...
25:28 Speaker 01 A Khmer Rouge soldier came to look for someone in your family and they told you that you have to go with me. That means that that person will be killed or never return.
25:45 Speaker 01 One day, it was my lucky day. I was feeling very tired and exhausted as I walked to the river to fetch the water. And I saw a little piglet run by me.
26:00 Speaker 01 And I was so happy, I know that, "Oh my god, I'm going to have a big meal", because I was so starving. And so I chased this little piglet, and he was running. He was about like, I would say, 10 pounds. You know, speeding passed by. I grabbed his leg, and then his other leg was kicking me, and I fell down on the ground. And then I stood up and I chased him again until we reached to the river.
26:28 Speaker 01 So I kind of like blocking him, so lure him toward the water. Then the piglet decided like, "Okay, he's going to jump into the water and swim." And then I realized that he cannot swim anymore. He gets stuck in the water, and the torrent was like, keep hitting him, so making him move very slow, and I grabbed him.
26:50 Speaker 01 And suddenly, I was like, I was in shock, that what I'm holding was a living being in my arm. He was looking at me, and his tear came out from his eyes. And I heard his heartbeat like boom, boom, boom, against my chest. And I felt like, "That was not me. What's wrong with me?" And I suddenly forgot all the food, all the tasty food that I'm about to eat him. And I decided to let him go. I said, "I'm so sorry."
27:25 Speaker 01 And the little piglet just ran straight, didn't look back.
27:32 Speaker 01 And I was very afraid of myself at that time. "How could I do this?
27:38 Speaker 01 That was not me."
27:46 Speaker 02 They kept getting shuffled around with no fixed end in sight, until they were finally told the place they would call home. It was called Jatil Village. And to their surprise, it sounded a lot like what the Khmer Rouge had always promised, and his whole family was overjoyed. It was gonna be like going back to that same village that Sue grew up in.
28:06 Speaker 01 The moment I heard that we were allowed to move into Jatil Village, I looked at my grandfather and I told him that we no longer worry about food, grandpa. I can grow papaya, sugar canes, beans and guava.
28:25 Speaker 01 We all smiled. We know that we are no longer starving.
28:36 Speaker 01 When we first moved into Jatil Village, I got so excited. I said, "Grandpa, we're going to live in there, that those houses there, and we can grow something." But my heart suddenly dropped when I saw the huts that we were about to live in, with just like holes and the roof was detached. And we were surrounded by hundred and hundred of termite hills.
29:11 Speaker 01 It was nothing the same like Kampungspur where I grew up.
29:19 Speaker 01 Daily life at Jatil was like this.
29:23 Speaker 01 We woke up at 5:00 a.m. before the daybreak. The Khmer Rouge bell would bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, dong, dong, dong. And there was a broadcasting radio.
29:38 Speaker 05 You have to work if you want to live. Those who refuse to work and make sacrifices will be crushed by the will of the revolution. Long live Onkar! Long live revolution!
29:51 Speaker 01 And then they would play revolutionary songs.
30:09 Speaker 01 Then the whole time we were working and the Khmer Rouge song keep playing.
30:16 Speaker 02 That song roughly translated goes like this. "We are the group of young girls who help transport food supplies and ammunition to the front lines as American imperialism melts away and is completely destroyed." Su and his older brother Chen would work all day from sunup to sundown with two breaks for rice gruel. And every night, they went to their forced re-education meeting. It's where they'd be coerced into snitching on their family and their neighbors, and sometimes made to watch torture.
30:50 Speaker 01 The scariest part of the meeting, one time Uncle Chuan stole the rice from the Khmer Rouge warehouse, and he got caught. They tied a rope on his neck and pulled him to the ground. And Uncle Chuan was begging for mercy.
31:18 Speaker 01 He kept screaming and saying that he would never do that again, he promised.
31:26 Speaker 01 And the Khmer Rouge, he shouted at us and he said, "You all, look at this. This is the consequence of the punishment." And Uncle Chuan's body was covered with a lot of blood and bruises.
31:44 Speaker 01 And I would say that up to these days, his screaming and crying still live with me.
31:57 Speaker 02 Uncle Chwan had stolen the rice because they weren't actually allowed to eat the food they grew. That was being shipped off to soldiers on the front lines, or that's what they were told. Su's family was desperate. And then one day, he heard about a cassava field the Khmer Rouge had just harvested. He went in search of it for scraps and leftovers. There, he found an old man, sitting near the field, smoking a cigarette.
32:21 Speaker 01 And I asked him politely, "Can I get into the field to collect some cassava scraps?" He nodded his head, and he threw the cigarette away, and he walked away. And I thought he was a nice guy. I entered the field. "My god, I found so many leftover cassava. That is a treasure to me, because we were starving. How could this be? Lots of cassava still there, big or small, it's still there." So, I was wearing my white striped shirt, and I pulling them out to make them as a bag, so I can put all the cassava against my belly, and I hold it.
33:06 Speaker 01 I got a lot, plenty of them. Suddenly, someone behind me said, "Thief, don't run, I'm gonna shoot you. Stay still, stay still." I turned around and looked, and there was a Khmer Rouge with a gun in his hand. So, my whole body was trembling, and I was like, I didn't know what to do. These are so treasure to me, these potatoes. I'm starving, I want to take it home. Then I didn't listen to him, I just start running. Then I trapped, and I fell down. I couldn't stand up, because my body was trembling like this, and my cassava was spread all over on the ground. And I tried very hard to stand up.
33:49 Speaker 01 I told myself, "I don't want to die." Then I stood up, and I start running, and running, and I heard bam bam bam from behind. I hide myself, behind a big tree. Then I heard the footsteps, with the step on the crunchy leaf, a dry leaf. And I heard that stepping, I heard bam bam bam bam.
34:13 Speaker 02 The soldier was trying to scare him out of hiding, but Su waited him out, until all he could hear was the chirping of the birds and the silence.
34:23 Speaker 01 I thought it was okay now, so I began to come out. And then, as I'm running toward the village, I saw the guy was standing there in the middle of the road with a rifle and pointing at me.
34:40 Speaker 02 He began running zigzagging across the field, desperately trying to make it to his house without being hit.
34:46 Speaker 01 The moment I stepped into the cottage, I didn't want him to recognize my shirt. So I took off my striped shirt and I changed the green shirt on. And I start looking through the bamboo hole of the cottage. And I saw the guy keep coming with a gun ready in his hand. So I decided to jump out of the cottage through the front door. I was so scared. I didn't want to look back. And I ran away from the cottage so that he may not know that I was the one that he was after.
35:28 Speaker 01 So a few hours later, I came back home. I just like, "Oh, my God, it's a big relief. This guy couldn't get me. I'm so happy." So I stepped into the cottage and I asked Papa, Grandpa, "Where is everybody?" "Oh, they were pulled to a meeting urgently." He said, "Don't go. You can stay home. You don't have to go." I said, "No, Grandpa. I want to see what happened to the meeting." So then, in the darkness, I walked into the meeting at the edge of the village. And there was about 200 peoples surrounded the bonfire.
36:04 Speaker 01 It was a big flame in the middle of the meeting. And there was three Khmeru soldiers. One of them was holding a gun and stood next to Brother Chan.
36:16 Speaker 01 My mother was running toward the fire. And she asked for mercy, that my son is still young. "Please forgive him. Please forgive him."
36:32 Speaker 01 And it took me for a while to realize that Brother Chan was wearing a striped shirt like mine.
36:53 Glynn Washington? When we return, find out what happens to Brother Chen. Stay tuned.
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38:50 Glynn Washington? Welcome back to Snap Judgment, the Cloak of Good Fortune episode. My name is Glynn Washington, and since of listeners should note, the following segment does include depictions of war, including the death of animals and people. When last we left, we had just learned that Sue had gotten away from the Khmer Rouge, but his brother had been mistakenly caught and was now about to be tried. Snap Judgment.
39:24 Speaker 01 And it was a big flame in the middle of the meeting, and there was three Khmer Rouge soldiers. One of them was holding a gun and stood next to brother Chen. My mother was running toward the fire, and she asked for mercy, that my son is still young, please forgive him, please forgive him.
39:53 Speaker 01 I was relieved at first. I thought that I was out of this danger, but then when I saw my brother was arrested, I wanted to turn myself in, and I want to admit that was me, that my brother was innocent, and he got caught for no reason. But I don't want to make the situation worse. I don't want them to look stupid, that a young kid outsmarted them, because they may kill the whole family.
40:30 Speaker 01 My mom and my dad kneeled down and begging the Khmer Rouge that, please let my son go. He doesn't know anything, he's still young, but I promise you that he wouldn't steal again. I know something bad is going to happen to brother Chen, and I could no longer watch it. So I ran back home, and I hit myself in the backyard. So the moment my father stepped into the house, my father yelled at me, shouting at me, that, "You must be the one who stole the cassava." But as soon as I tried to explain to my father...
41:16 Speaker 01 He said, "Shut up, don't say anything."
41:20 Speaker 01 And then later, my father covered his face. And he said, "Oh God, I don't know what to do." He was covering his face and cried.
41:34 Speaker 02 Brother Chan was spared, but now their family knew they had drawn the attention of the Khmer Rouge and spies began to follow them.
41:43 Speaker 01 I was in tears, yes. I was scared at that time, but I was happy that he didn't die.
41:54 Speaker 01 So, one day after the meeting, Khmer Rouge announced that all the villagers has to move to a new location to open a new land, open a new jungle. Except our family were told to stay behind.
42:11 Speaker 01 That morning, we say goodbye to all the villagers. They stood in line and marching slowly. The Khmer Rouge accompanied them with their rifle in their hand. And then we were warned by the Khmer Rouge that you cannot go anywhere. You stay here, wait until two weeks later. When I come back, I will tell you where you have to go.
42:32 Speaker 01 So my father already know something is not right. Something is badly will happen to us.
42:43 Speaker 01 That same night, I hear the sound of bicycle come in. I saw a soldiers with a rifle under the moonlight. I thought, "That's it, they come to kill us."
43:02 Speaker 01 The next thing I heard was a man's voice calling my fathers. He called, "Heng, heng, chomao, chomao, come down, come down."
43:15 Speaker 01 Then I realized that that was Uncle Barnes. That was the voice of Uncle Barnes, he's coming.
43:22 Speaker 01 Uncle Ban was my father's childhood friend. Now he's a Khmer Rouge. And they whisper to each other. And right after, my father said, "Okay, it's time to pack, and we have to leave right away. There's no time to think about anything, because otherwise the Khmer Rouge will execute our family."
43:44 Speaker 02 That is why they'd been left behind. And now, they'd have to make a break for it.
43:50 Speaker 01 He quickly found a stick, and he threw the map on the ground. He told my father that we have to reach the Diamond Village on time. There was a group of Vietnamese villagers on their way to Vietnam. That was our last chance to survive.
44:15 Speaker 02 He told them to hurry, but to be careful once they got to the border. It was there that the Khmer Rouge had planted a field of landmines.
44:22 Speaker 01 And then Uncle Ban said goodbye.
44:26 Speaker 01 My father lead us across the wood. And during the day, we hid ourselves in, under the big trees, sometime under the foliage. And then nighttime, we mostly rely on the moonlight. Whenever we see some flashlight or something like flashing, we have to really lie flat on the ground until that light is gone. And then my father would tell us, "Okay, now we're ready to move on." It was very hard, but we tried. We trying to find the trail to keep going. There's no time to think about anything. We have no other choice.
45:10 Speaker 02 Eventually, they reached a group of war-torn cottages.
45:14 Speaker 01 And my father told me and Brother Chan and Grandpa to sleep separately. So just in case, if they capture one group, the other would get away. After Grandpa, Brother Chan, and I settled,
45:32 Speaker 01 I walked to the back of the building. And just as I was about to relieve myself, I heard a wiggling sounds in the trees.
45:46 Speaker 01 I thought the Camiru is hiding somewhere around here.
45:50 Speaker 01 Then, under the moonlight, I saw a giant rooster landing on the top of the trees. A beautiful rooster.
46:02 Speaker 01 This is the kind of rooster that I I wanted to show it to my friends.
46:11 Speaker 01 That was the rooster that I really loved and would keep it as a pet for myself. But I was so hungry.
46:22 Speaker 01 And I slowly inch forward. I snatch it and I pull it down off the tree. And the rooster was struggling to get free from me and with his claws scratching my body and I was like holding it very tight. And then the rooster stopped moving and his arm went limp. So I dropped it to the ground.
46:56 Speaker 01 After I picked it up, I hold it carefully and run toward my father. Papa, papa! And my father was smiling. I have never seen him smile so happy. My father dig the ground and make a hole and he cooked the chicken under the ground for us.
47:17 Speaker 01 I kept chewing it for a long time. I didn't want to swallow it. And I was so happy to see everyone having a good meal. I felt like I was a hero.
47:31 Speaker 01 But right after the dinner,
47:35 Speaker 01 I gradually feel pain, you know, scratch in my body that was very painful. And then I begin to think about how could I kill this living being who was trying to hide himself for his safety in the tree? And I took his life.
47:58 Speaker 01 That was not who I am. Just because of the food, that's how I have to do something, to kill something in order to survive.
48:12 Speaker 01 I have learned during the Khmer Rules is that no matter how hard we try to be a good person, the value of our life can be turned upside down in no time.
48:31 Speaker 01 We arrive at the Rocky Diamond Village around noon. No one was there, the whole village was empty.
48:42 Speaker 01 And I see my mother's face look so worried and she asked Papa, "What happened if we miss this Vietnamese group?" My father kept quiet for a second and he said, "Just wait and see, they will be here."
49:03 Speaker 01 As we were about to go to sleep, then we heard from the distance the cowbells.
49:13 Speaker 01 "Glock long, Glock long, Glock long" from the distance. My father was so happy, he jumped up, he said, "They are here, they are here."
49:22 Speaker 02 The Vietnamese farmers had special permission to cross over the border back into Vietnam. When Sue's father asked if they could join them, the farmers agreed.
49:33 Speaker 01 We stayed on the road for a few days. We walked through the heat of the sun and the rainstorms. And finally, we reached the point where we can see the Vietnamese flag
49:47 Speaker 01 on the other side of the border.
49:52 Speaker 01 My father was jumping and shouting that, "We are here, we make it, we make it," and I was so happy.
50:04 Speaker 01 Yeah. I was holding my grandfather's hand and we were all cheerful.
50:13 Speaker 02 The border was only two miles away.
50:15 Speaker 01 We were about to reach to the Vietnamese border. Suddenly, there was two robbers dressed in black, holding rifle pointing at us and said, "Give me your gold. I'm going to shoot you. Give me your gold."
50:33 Speaker 01 And people behind us didn't know what happened. They thought that the Khmer Rouge is come and arrest us and going to kill us. And they just like run toward a different direction, trying to escape. And suddenly, a bomb exploded, boom! And some people run toward right and other people run left. At that chaotic moment, I hear my father said, "Follow me, follow me." And my father and my mom are holding my younger brother and sister. And I grabbed my grandfather and my father said, "Don't stop. Keep coming. Keep running. Keep running." The bomb constantly went off and the explosion was hot.
51:13 Speaker 01 The air was nasty and the soil was dropping like rain falling upon us. We keep running and running. The bomb explosion died down. We saw the Vietnamese flag hanging in the border.
51:32 Speaker 01 We were so fearful that they are going to get us. But finally, we just put our feet into the land of Vietnam.
51:43 Speaker 01 We were all relieved and I can see my mom's some smile on her face.
51:51 Speaker 01 But at the same time, she turned around and smiled. At the same time, she burst in tear and looking back to land of Cambodia, our country, our beloved country. And she waved her hand and say goodbye to Cambodia.
52:13 Speaker 01 I never forget that.
52:41 Glynn Washington? A very, very big thank you to Sue Doe for sharing this story with the Snap. He and his family, they settled in Vietnam where they tried to find a sense of normalcy, while also grieving for the dozens of family members that perished under the Khmer Rouge. There is so much of this story we were not able to share with you about Sue and his family's incredible journey, but if you want to know more, please check out his book, A Cloak of Good Fortune. You can find the link at our website, snapjudgment.org. The original score for this story was by Renzo Goryeo. It was produced by Nikka Singh.
53:43 Glynn Washington? It happened again, and we got here together. If you missed even a moment of today's show, know that there is so much more incredible storytelling, incredible worlds waiting for you to explore. Subscribe to the Snap Judgment Podcast wherever you get your podcasts, because it might just change your life.
54:06 Glynn Washington? Snap is brought to you by the team that always acts respectfully when entering someone's home. Except for the Uber producer, Mr. Mark Vristich. He insists upon singing random songs at the top of his lungs. There's Pat McSweeney-Miller, Anna Sussman, Renzo Goryeo, John Facio, Shayna Shealy, Marissa Dodge, Nikka Singh, Taylor Decot, Leon Morimoto, Flo Wiley, Nancy Lopez, and Regina Bediako.
54:37 Glynn Washington? And this is not the news. No way is this the news. In fact, you could see that one guy from high school, and he could see you. And you could look at each other real hard, and then keep on walking by without saying a word, and you would still, still, not be as far away from the news as this is. But this is PRX.
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