656 Understanding Human Psychology from the Masters

“When people know their tendencies, they see themselves more clearly” - Gretchen Rubin No matter what business you are in, psychology is something you shouldn’t overlook. It’s not just something you should know in order to land the next client, or how to better build your team, but also to help you grow. You need to understand yourself to know what obstacles you need to overcome. When you understand your own psychology, you open a whole new world of possibilities. Getting to know your personality type means you’ll know what to adjust when you meet someone else. It also means you’ll know what to look out for when someone is trying to manipulate you. In every way, knowing psychology can be important to help you achieve the greatness you want. That’s why I put together this new mashup with the bests: Scott Barry Kaufman, Chris Lee, Gretchen Rubin, John Danner and Chris Kuenne In this episode of The School of Greatness, you’ll get a solid look as to various personality types that exist. You’ll also learn about the tendencies we all have and how to turn them into a strength. Each of my guests also give real world examples on how you can use the information provided in this episode. I hand picked the best of the best information from these episodes because I want to see you get out there, use this knowledge, and succeed. Anyone listening to this episode will take away something that they didn’t know before -- I learned new things re-listening to these clips! Get ready to better understand psychology, on Episode 656. Some Questions I Ask: What is IQ and is it effective? (6:48) What are the 4 personality types? (10:46) If I’m a controller, how would you speak my language to convince me to buy something? (14:40) If you’re selling a car, how would you approach these personality types? (27:14) What’s the main thing understanding your tendencies does for you? (30:27) Are we born with these tendencies? (35:23) Can someone be all of the personality types? (39:26) In This Episode You Will Learn: The multiple paths to greatness (5:02) How testing in the school system can cause people to fall through the cracks (8:47) What personality types a leader should have (10:26) What a controller is (11:28) The opposite personality of a controller (16:23) Exactly what a promoter is (20:51) How to spot an analyzer (24:26) How you can understand yourself and others better (30:07) The different types of tendencies (31:12) How entrepreneurs build teams (35:48) John and Chris’s 4 personality types (36:03) Plus much, much more Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 656, Understanding Human Psychology. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:32Lewis Howes?

  To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you into something else is the greatest accomplishment. Ralph Waldo Emerson. I am pumped because every single week, we bring you insights from the greatest minds in the world, from the greatest teachers, from the greatest human beings, to help you discover what it is you were born to do on this earth. How to overcome the greatest challenges in your life, and how to accelerate your growth to achieve your dreams faster than you could ever imagine.

• 1:11Lewis Howes?

  And this episode is a mashup of some of the best wisdom I've heard on understanding your own personality and core strengths, so that you can do the work that suits you best, so that you can live the life that serves you and humanity the best. We've got clips today from the great psychologist Scott Barry Kaufman. Yes, he is a master. We've got it from Chris Lee, transformational coach of 30-plus years, from John Danner and Chris Kene, and the incredible Gretchen Rubin. We've got these masters in here who are going to share some wisdom, some nuggets, and talk about how to really understand human psychology to optimize connection.

• 1:56Lewis Howes?

  Understanding yourself, why we do the things we do and how you can improve your own life in this process. This is a powerful one, guys. Some of you haven't heard these golden nuggets before, so I wanted to make sure we bring them to the forefront so you can hear them. If you enjoy this, make sure to share it with your friends, LewisHowes.com/656. This will be a powerful one for you to truly understand human psychology. And I want to give a big thank you and shout out to the fan of the week. This is from Matt Holliday, who said, "This is a podcast for all people, all ages, colors, all genders, rich or poor, this podcast is for you." I have to say this podcast is especially for people who are in a growth period in their lives and are looking for that extra thing that is going

• 2:41Lewis Howes?

  to take that growth to the max. There is always at least one quote in every episode that just gives me the chills and allows me to look at my life a little bit differently. This causes me to grow little by little each episode. Tune in if you are a human that is wanting to make some positive changes in your life and the lives around you. So, Matt Holliday, thank you for that warm review. I appreciate it. And you are the fan of the week, my friend. If you guys have not left a review yet, we've got over 3,000-plus five-star reviews. You can just open up your podcast app and leave a review right there. We'd love that very much. And get your chance to be shouted out as the fan of the week. All right, guys, I'm excited to dive into this one again. Powerful episode, all about

• 3:26Lewis Howes?

  understanding human psychology. Let me know what you think about this. Take a screenshot right now and tag me on your Instagram story, LewisHowes.com/656, to let your friends know. Without further ado, let's dive into understanding human psychology.

• 3:48Scott Barry Kaufman?

  Asking that what is the key is the best way to develop greatness. I think the best way is to recognize there are multiple paths to greatness. And that's kind of one of the big... Points I wanted to make in that book is that every person can need to find out for themselves what their unique value is in this world and what unique package of personal characteristics, including their motivations, their, their, um, their cognitive abilities, like are you a very verbal person, are you not, are you a visual spatial person, like, and figuring out what kind of environments and niches would be best for you. But what I, what I've discovered in looking at people who really reached those highest levels, they didn't necessarily have all those stereotypical markers

• 4:28Scott Barry Kaufman?

  that we use to predict potential when you're young. And this includes, I studied, I wrote this article recently about what predicts NBA success, for instance. And people would be surprised to know that like so many of the things that town scouts go through and do are just not predicting greatness whatsoever within, um, within those sports domains. The researchers looked at this, you know, the NBA combined, you know how they do this, uh, they have all these prospective NBA players, like test for their agility, test for their height, you know, their general

• 4:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:00Scott Barry Kaufman?

  Yeah, the combine. So it finds out that's completely non predictive.

• 5:04Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 5:04Scott Barry Kaufman?

  Of them. It's like a really worthless thing.

• 5:06Lewis Howes?

  It shows their athleticism, but it doesn't show their teamwork, their leadership, their emotional intelligence, their ability to bounce back, all those things, right?

• 5:13Scott Barry Kaufman?

  Exactly. Mental toughness, all the things that really are, um, the most important things for differentiating those at the very top versus, um, those that aren't. Yeah, that's right.

• 5:23Lewis Howes?

  Right. Well, you know, everyone talks about, at least when I was growing up in school, everyone was talking about IQ. And can you talk about what is IQ? Just so people that don't know, what does it stand for? What's its purpose? And is it even effective? Because it kind of sounds a little bit about what you just talked about.

• 5:39Scott Barry Kaufman?

  Yeah. So if we could fast forward like fif- uh, ten years from now and have this conversation, I would say IQ stands for imagination quotient, because that's what I'm working towards in my own.

• 5:49Lewis Howes?

  Nice.

• 5:49Scott Barry Kaufman?

  Yeah, that's like what the imagination is too, is trying to do is come up with a, a whole new test. But we live right now, two thousand fourteen, the IQ, everyone knows intelligence quotient, it's supposed to be this measure of your general cognitive ability. Think of it just like you go. And you do the physical fitness tests, you know, you have to like run with the eraser back and forth, or you have to do a chin press up, or they run five hundred meters, et cetera, et cetera, and you can take an average of all those physical fitness tests that most of us had to take in high school.

• 6:22Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 6:22Scott Barry Kaufman?

  And I bet you kicked ass on that, right?

• 6:24Lewis Howes?

  I do pretty well.

• 6:25Scott Barry Kaufman?

  Yeah, you did do that, that one. Yes, the physical fitness, and you get like a rough idea of someone's general physical fitness.

• 6:32Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 6:32Scott Barry Kaufman?

  By the way, I went to high school with Kobe Bryant, and I did better with him, better than him on the, um, the eraser one. I got the like, the, the all A, one there like thing for the, so that's like my one thing.

• 6:41Lewis Howes?

  One thing, yeah.

• 6:43Scott Barry Kaufman?

  No, well, within that sports domain. It kicks my ass and everything else.

• 6:47Lewis Howes?

  That's hilarious.

• 6:48Scott Barry Kaufman?

  But anyway, yeah, so you get like this general rough index, uh, and so same kind of logic is used with IQ tests is that we make people like, maybe like, what's your vocabulary? What's your, you know, mentally rotate objects in your mind? Put these blocks together, or what's pattern comes next? And then you just take the average, and that's supposed to index your general intellectual functioning. But as you know, with general physical fitness as well, is that some of the greatest athletes have a lot of, they've developed very, very specific adaptations to that specific sport that make them stand out. It's not the general fitness that necessarily matters the most, but, um, that specific skill set and expertise that you've mastered.

• 7:28Lewis Howes?

  Sure. So, do you think it's effective then, or is it pretty much worthless?

• 7:33Scott Barry Kaufman?

  I don't, so I'm not anti-IQ, I'm not like trying to say they're worthless.

• 7:37Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 7:37Scott Barry Kaufman?

  But I think the way that they are used in the school system.

• 7:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 7:41Scott Barry Kaufman?

  Um, to, to hinder opportunity, we are effectively, um, letting way too many students fall between the cracks.

• 7:48Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 7:49Scott Barry Kaufman?

  You know, for instance, then I can give you so many examples, so you're learning disabilities, kids with dyslexia, um, schizophrenia, behavioral disorders, et cetera, there's so many multitude of reasons that could cause someone to do poorly in a little testing session with like a psychologist, we have to focus, and a psychologist saying, what's the one correct answer? You know, and all these conditions, they're so anxiety provoking, there's so many reasons why you could score low in this kind of environment, and then the, the school Includes, oh, well, this student is not doing well in school because of their low intelligence. What I've been trying to challenge, I'm not trying to say that those tests are useless or they're not important information. But I'm actually trying, I would really like to change, like, what is the first thing that we think of when a student is well achieving?

• 8:32Scott Barry Kaufman?

  And it's not, let's pull out the IQ battery and see if they're stupid, if that explains it. Instead, I want to look at so many other factors first, like engagement, effort, um, environmental support, uh, family background, like, what are these students' priorities? And, you know, like, is the student live in an environment where everyone's getting killed all around them, you know, like, that seems, surviving seems to be more important than doing well on an IQ test.

• 8:55Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 8:56Scott Barry Kaufman?

  You know, for that person. There's just so many, like, people, I think educators, lots of them, just have such a misguided view of how we realize potential and what those tests actually are measured.

• 9:09Chris Lee?

  Ideally, a leader has access to all four personality types.

• 9:14Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 9:15Chris Lee?

  So if I have, if I know that my audience is one personality type mostly, that I get to speak in a way that they understand.

• 9:23Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 9:23Chris Lee?

  And then bring them the message.

• 9:25Lewis Howes?

  Yep.

• 9:25Chris Lee?

  Because everybody listens in a different way.

• 9:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 9:27Chris Lee?

  And it just allows me to be more effective.

• 9:31Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool. So let's, uh, let's go into it. What are the four personality types?

• 9:35Chris Lee?

  Okay, so let's, let's talk, let's talk one by one, because each one is complex. So the first personality style, and by the way, you may, as you listen to this, you may feel that you fit into one, it's possible you fit into two. It's possible that you have, you know, a little more of one than the other, a little less of the other than this one. And also, it's, it could also be, depending on the circumstance. For example, I could be a personality type in bed.

• 10:03Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 10:04Chris Lee?

  Or I could be a personality type at work.

• 10:06Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 10:06Chris Lee?

  Or I could be a different personality type socially. So, but there's generally a home base.

• 10:13Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 10:14Chris Lee?

  Okay, so the first personality type I want to talk about is the controller.

• 10:21Chris Lee?

  What's the controller? The controller is the person that always wants to be right. The controller is the person that likes to be in control of himself. So he's in control, but he wants to be in control of everyone around him. Hmm, so can you give me some examples of that? Yeah, it's somebody that likes to be the source of all the ideas. So even if it's your idea, they thought of it. Really? A controller is somebody that is, they're usually a leader. They're very powerful. They're powerful with their conviction. They got a lot of confidence and they think they could get it done better than anybody else. So a controller, the gift of a controller is that they make things happen.

• 11:02Chris Lee?

  These are the movers, the shakers, the people that do whatever it takes. And the gift of the controller is that a controller is confident. A controller is a leader. They take initiative. Make decisions. They make decisions. They're all about the result. Yeah. Now. Goal oriented. Completely goal oriented, results oriented. Right. So the downside of a controller is that they appear insensitive. They appear mean. They don't listen. They like to be right. Therefore, everyone around them is wrong. Right. Ring a bell, people? So it's that boss that won't listen to feedback, won't listen to ideas. Can't take criticism.

• 11:47Chris Lee?

  Doesn't take criticism. It's that person that likes to be right. Yeah. And they don't listen. As a matter of fact, before, they'll ask a question, but they'll answer it. Hmm.

• 11:59Chris Lee?

  So that's the person that is inflexible. So if they have a plan, they go to dinner and they want to go to Chinese food. That's it. It's Chinese food, period. You want to go with them, it's got to be Chinese. Wow. If you say it's, you know, I want to eat Thai food, forget it. You're eating alone.

• 12:15Chris Lee?

  And a controller is, the good news about a controller is that they make things happen. They're powerful. They take initiative and they usually have results.

• 12:26Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 12:26Chris Lee?

  The downside is the biggest cost or the biggest price is relationships. Because who wants to be around somebody who doesn't listen and who's always right? And so if you're a controller and if you identify with that, well, obviously you need to work on your social skills, your relationship skills, your listening skills, et cetera, et cetera. And as I described some of the other personality types, you'll know what you'll need to work on as well. So if you have a controller and you're addressing a controller in terms of managing them or you want to convince them to do something, you need to speak their language.

• 13:09Lewis Howes?

  So if someone's always right, say you're trying to sell me something or you're trying to get me to do something that maybe I'm not convinced on doing or buying yet. And you want to speak my language, say I'm the controller. And I like it my way, a certain way, like I have something in my mind that it's gotta be that way. How would you speak to me to convert me into buying or, you know, coming along a trip?

• 13:33Chris Lee?

  Or investing in your company.

• 13:34Lewis Howes?

  Whatever.

• 13:35Chris Lee?

  Yeah. So first of all, I gotta be confident. If I show up wishy washy or wimpy or unsure, it's over.

• 13:43Lewis Howes?

  Then it's not, he's not gonna trust you.

• 13:44Chris Lee?

  No, cuz you know, he's gonna look at you like you're full of it.

• 13:49Lewis Howes?

  And he knows more than you and he's right.

• 13:50Chris Lee?

  He always knows more than you. So you gotta be confident, you gotta be clear, you gotta show up dressed in a formal way cuz controllers are formal. They're formal in their dress and they're dominant. So they're dominant and they're formal. So you gotta show up formal and you gotta show up in a... Not necessarily over domineering, but you gotta show up that you're powerful too. So you gotta match their energy. So mirroring them. Yeah, you gotta match their energy. And to convince a controller, you gotta make everything their idea. So you gotta turn the thing into, well, you know, you need to agree with them. And as you're agreeing, you're inputting, you're inputting whatever it is you want them to do.

• 14:35Chris Lee?

  Like, once you have their trust, once you have their attention, then you could convey your message. It's almost stroke their ego in a sense. Stroke their ego, but... Without being, stroking it, but you know. Yeah, yeah. No, you, you need, you need to connect with them at their level. Yeah. You know, powerful people like to be around powerful people. Right. And they're, they're not gonna put money into someone that shows up wimpy. Right. Or not sure or unclear. Right. So a controller is someone who's dominant and, and somebody who is formal. So you gotta present them in a dominant and formal way.

• 15:14Chris Lee?

  The complete opposite of a controller is the person who's a supporter. And a supporter is somebody who, they're not so concerned about the result. They're more concerned about the feelings. And so they're about feelings, they're about love and acknowledgement and self-worth and respect. And the supporter, the positive thing about a supporter is that they're loving and they're caring. They're the nurturers. Yeah. They're the caretakers. They're the people that will give the shirt off their back for other people. They put other people first. They're always focusing on your needs.

• 15:59Chris Lee?

  Giving, giving, giving. Givers, total givers. Yeah. The downside of a supporter is that they show up like a doormat. People take advantage of them. People walk all over them. They don't stand up for themselves. They don't stand up for themselves. Their voice doesn't count. And so if you have somebody in your life that's a supporter and you try to dominate them... Then they're just gonna shrink.

• 16:19Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 16:19Chris Lee?

  They're gonna go into their, into their cave and they're not gonna come out.

• 16:24Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 16:24Chris Lee?

  They're gonna shut down. They're gonna feel abused by you.

• 16:27Lewis Howes?

  Jeez.

• 16:28Chris Lee?

  And so if you're, if you're a controller and you're in a relationship with a supporter, you gotta access love and care and stroke their heart.

• 16:39Lewis Howes?

  Connection and yeah.

• 16:40Chris Lee?

  They, they respond to acknowledgement. They respond to love. They respond to great job. I'm proud of you. Thank you. That you will inspire a supporter that way and they'll be loyal for life.

• 16:54Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 16:55Chris Lee?

  So if you're a supporter, you gotta work on your voice and your courage and your self-confidence and you gotta step up.

• 17:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 17:02Chris Lee?

  And if you're a supporter that needs to motivate a controller, then you gotta own your power. You gotta show up confident. You gotta speak up. You can't, you know, you can't, if you're a supporter, you can't, one of the things that I talked about is how we put ourselves in a box. And we say, well, that's just kinda how I am. And so the, the idea of these quadrants is not to put yourself in a box. The idea of these quadrants is to identify where you are and to shift. And we, we have the ability to shift. What does shift mean? It means moving from one space to the other. And if you learn these quadrants and you learn to navigate through these quadrants, you could access the positive gifts of each quadrant, therefore becoming successful.

• 17:44Lewis Howes?

  Right. And the greatest leaders probably have access to, they're probably a little bit of it. They probably have one or two dominant, but then they can always access the other two at any time.

• 17:52Chris Lee?

  Absolutely. I mean, I'll talk about me, you know, where I operated from before and, and because of this work, what I do now.

• 17:58Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 17:58Chris Lee?

  So being a supporter, they're, they're feeling oriented. The questions that supporters ask is why? You know, and you know, why is this happening? And, you know, and they're easygoing. They're informal. So their, their way of being is casual, easygoing, informal. They, they go with the flow. So if the controller goes, we're eating Chinese, or the supporter hates Chinese food, oh, I'll find something I like. It doesn't matter.

• 18:29Lewis Howes?

  They're flexible.

• 18:30Chris Lee?

  Super flexible. You know, a supporter, the gift of the supporters, they're the heart.

• 18:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 18:36Chris Lee?

  Of every organization. And They're like the best customer support. Totally supportive. They're great encouraging teams and they're peacemakers. They're always, they avoid conflict. Yeah. Controllers love conflict. They're like, let's confront this now. And see who's right. Right. And so a supporter needs to, you know, shift their way of being. So that's the second quadrant, I would say, in terms of. We've got the controller, supporter. You have the controller and you have the supporter. Which are opposites. Yeah, they're opposites. One is a results oriented, the other is feelings oriented. Okay. One is about, okay, what are we creating? And then the supporter is why, which is a non-confrontational question.

• 19:22Chris Lee?

  Right. And a non-produce, non-rewards producing question. Right. They're like, why is this happening? Okay, so then we go to the other two quadrants and the other quadrant is the promoter. And the promoter is the passionate, life of the party. They're outrageous. You know, they're all about relationships. You know, if you invite them to the party, they're not going to ask, why are you inviting me? Or what's going to happen? They want to know who's there. Right.

• 19:54Chris Lee?

  Who's at the party? And if I like them, I'm there. And if it's fun, I'm in. Yeah. So promoters are all about being the center of attention. They want to shine and shine bright like a diamond. You know, you know, they, they want people to remember their name. Yeah. And, you know, the, the gift of the promoters, that the promoter is outrageous and passionate and energetic and talkative. You can imagine what quadrant I fall into. I love, you know, being outrageous and passionate and communicative. Expressive and. I love being in relationships, like doing things with groups of people. And that's my home base. Like speaking in front of audiences. I love it. You could put me. Thrive off of it. Two thousand people and I'm feeling it.

• 20:39Chris Lee?

  Yeah. And meanwhile, you know, somebody who's the opposite quadrant, you put them in front of two thousand people and they freeze.

• 20:48Chris Lee?

  So a promoter is relationship driven. A promoter is all about fun and energy. And that's the gift of a promoter. And so if you want to inspire a promoter, you can't be boring or cold or.

• 21:01Lewis Howes?

  It's gotta be exciting.

• 21:02Chris Lee?

  It's gotta be interesting. Too soft. You gotta show up exciting. If you're gonna sell your idea to a promoter or you want a promoter to invest his money, his millions of dollars in your business, you gotta make it exciting, gotta make it passionate.

• 21:16Lewis Howes?

  This is the next big thing.

• 21:17Chris Lee?

  Yeah, this is it. This is it.

• 21:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 21:20Chris Lee?

  And, uh, you know, you can't control him and you can't just be wimpy with him either. Because a promoter is actually dominant with their energy. They're very dominant. They're like, you know, they love their ideas. And at the same time, they're easygoing. So they're casual in terms of their approach at life. They're pretty casual. You could see them in a suit. You could see them in flip flops. You know, a lot of, a lot of directors are that way. And you've seen these directors, Hollywood directors that make millions of dollars and they look homeless. You know, they're promoters. They're like full of energy. And so a promoter has a lot of energy and the gift of the promoter is the communication, the ability to communicate, their ability to express, their ability to make people feel good.

• 22:04Chris Lee?

  The downside is that they have so many ideas, they don't finish any.

• 22:09Lewis Howes?

  The lack of focus maybe or the.

• 22:11Chris Lee?

  They, they suffer from A D D D D H D.

• 22:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 22:15Chris Lee?

  Permanently.

• 22:16Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 22:17Chris Lee?

  Like when the next shiny object comes up, they're gone.

• 22:20Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 22:21Chris Lee?

  So I'm sure a lot of you can relate to that. All of the promoters like, that's me. And of course, me is one of their favorite words, you know?

• 22:30Chris Lee?

  So a promoter, you know, if you want to inspire a promoter, you gotta be passionate. You gotta show up alive. You gotta show up with, with energy. And if you want to coach a promoter, you gotta coach them on how to create specific goals and stick to them. Because one of the downsides of promoters is that they break their word. They're so, they say yes to everything.

• 22:47Lewis Howes?

  So they have to break somewhere.

• 22:48Chris Lee?

  Yeah.

• 22:50Lewis Howes?

  They probably feel overwhelmed at some point.

• 22:51Chris Lee?

  Exactly. Completely overwhelmed.

• 22:53Lewis Howes?

  Like I just agreed to everything and I.

• 22:55Chris Lee?

  Right. And people get mad at them.

• 22:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 22:57Chris Lee?

  And they also show up, since they're so energetic and passionate, they also can show up inauthentic. They could show up like phony, like actors, actresses. There are a lot of people in acting that are promoters.

• 23:07Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 23:08Chris Lee?

  You know, great energy, you know, and, but little follow through.

• 23:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 23:13Chris Lee?

  And of course, the opposite of the promoter is the analyzer. The analyzer is somebody who is formal in their way of being, like very strict and structured. Right. You know, but they're easygoing in the sense of that they don't really push through their ideas. So they could be, they could ponder on something for a long time. Before they make a decision. Absolutely. So buying a home could take five years. Exactly. Looking at a hundred homes and analyzing every square footage. Like they'll take a contract and they will dissect it, decipher it, they'll talk to 10 lawyers and then they'll sign. Right.

• 23:58Chris Lee?

  So an analyzer, the gift of the analyzer is detail, structure, organization. Notice this, what promoters don't have. They're detailed, structured, organized. Analyzers are their word. So if they say they're gonna do something, take it to the bank. Right. But before they give their word. They're gonna think about it first. Think about it forever. A promoter gives their word and thinks later. Right. And says sorry later. And goes, oh, I, sorry, I, I thought I, I could make it. So an analyzer, what's great about an analyzer is they're great with numbers, they're great with computers, they're great with structure, organization. Detail oriented. The downside of the analyzer is. They can probably run a company well. They can run the structure. Absolutely. Kind of spreadsheets.

• 24:43Chris Lee?

  Oh my God, down to a T. Yeah. And then the downside is they lack passion, they lack spontaneity. Sometimes you have to put a, you know, a mirror underneath their nose to see if they're breathing. Cause a lot of times they show up dead. Right. There's just no expression. No life. It's like from the neck down, not connected. Wow. I'm talking about severe case, obviously. Sure. So the gift of the analyzer, of course, is that they are disciplined, they're organized, they're structured. They could set up systems and they could, you know, decipher problems and problem solving. The downside is by the time they get to it, someone else thought of it. And did it. Right.

• 25:24Chris Lee?

  So if you have, so if you have an analyzing client, you need to make sure you got the information. Because not having your information clear is like being caught with your pants down.

• 25:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 25:36Chris Lee?

  It's like, uh, got busted. So you gotta have the facts, the details. If you're selling an analyzer or a car, you gotta have every single detail about that car. You gotta know your, your product. You gotta know what you're communicating. Same thing if you have, you know, an employee that's an analyzer, you gotta explain them all the details so that he can finally feel confident. And obviously coach him on being passionate and coach him on being spontaneous.

• 26:01Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 26:01Chris Lee?

  So.

• 26:02Lewis Howes?

  So to give, so to give an example of that, let's say you're selling a car. If you're selling it to a promoter, you would say like, this is the fastest car on the road and you're gonna have the best time. You're gonna, you know, it's gonna be the talk of the town, the way it looks.

• 26:14Chris Lee?

  You're gonna look good in it. You're gonna look amazing in it.

• 26:18Lewis Howes?

  Everyone, yeah, you're gonna feel good.

• 26:20Chris Lee?

  People are gonna wanna ride the car with you. You're gonna feel confident. You're gonna be a superstar.

• 26:26Lewis Howes?

  Right. And if you're selling to an analyzer, you're saying.

• 26:29Chris Lee?

  You're gonna get, you know, X amount of, you know, miles per gallon and the warranty is amazing and the structure of it. And look, it's got lithium and it's got this and it's got unbelievable.

• 26:41Lewis Howes?

  Six cup holders.

• 26:42Chris Lee?

  Steel. Yeah, exactly. And then the air conditioner has all these modules and, you know, they wanna know all the details of the car and, and, and how they're, how, how much money they're gonna put down and how much they're gonna save and how being with you, they're saving money and all the details.

• 26:59Lewis Howes?

  And if it's a supporter.

• 27:00Chris Lee?

  And if it's a supporter.

• 27:02Lewis Howes?

  Very safe for your family.

• 27:03Chris Lee?

  You're gonna be safe and you're gonna be able to carry your entire family with you in this minivan. Cause they all have minivans.

• 27:10Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 27:10Chris Lee?

  Cause they want everybody in it.

• 27:11Lewis Howes?

  Lots of space.

• 27:13Chris Lee?

  Yeah, lots of space.

• 27:14Lewis Howes?

  The dog, the, yeah.

• 27:16Chris Lee?

  Yeah, you're gonna be able to carry people's luggage and help people.

• 27:20Lewis Howes?

  Take people to the airport.

• 27:22Chris Lee?

  Carpool.

• 27:23Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 27:24Chris Lee?

  So, I mean, yeah. And, and if it's a controller, they gotta feel that how it, that it's never gonna break down. So you're gonna be able to get, it's reliable. You're gonna be able to get to work on time and you won't miss days at work.

• 27:35Lewis Howes?

  Efficient.

• 27:36Chris Lee?

  Yeah.

• 27:51Speaker 03

  Self-knowledge, I mean, I really think when people know about the four tendencies, they really do, in my vanity, I have to believe that they really do see themselves differently and more clearly, and then they understand other people better too, and they can see how to set up situations in a way that just allows everybody to thrive.

• 28:10Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm, allows them to thrive, but it also gives you like peace of mind and clarity, or what is it, what's the main thing it does for you?

• 28:16Speaker 03

  Well, part of, well, it's peace of mind, but it's, and it's also compassion. It's like, I understand, like, you're struggling with something that's easy for me, instead of feeling disdain for you, or like, being puzzled or frustrated that you're not following through in a way that would make sense to me, I think, oh, well, somebody else just needs things to be set up in a different way, so let's set up a, set up the situation in a way that is gonna allow you to thrive. The fact that I wouldn't need this to be set up this way, doesn't really matter. It's like, okay, well, you need something different from what I need, so, okay, well, let's just figure that out.

• 28:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and Christine was going over these tendencies, and she is the obliger.

• 28:54Speaker 03

  Obliger.

• 28:55Lewis Howes?

  Obliger.

• 28:56Speaker 03

  Okay, well, that's the biggest tendency, that's the one that most people fit into, so it makes sense.

• 28:59Lewis Howes?

  She said she's like, when there's challenges or rules that other people give her, she like, lives up to it, but if she sets her own rules, she's like, eh, I can slide on these things.

• 29:09Speaker 03

  That's obliger.

• 29:10Lewis Howes?

  Right?

• 29:11Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 29:12Lewis Howes?

  She's like, that's me!

• 29:13Speaker 03

  That is the definition of obliger.

• 29:14Lewis Howes?

  And then what am I, Christine, I'm a rebel?

• 29:16Speaker 03

  If somebody asks or tells you to do something, you're very likely to resist?

• 29:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I'm likely to resist, unless I, it's like, my idea.

• 29:22Speaker 03

  That's right, see, rebels can do anything they want to do.

• 29:26Lewis Howes?

  It's my way.

• 29:27Speaker 03

  So, should I go through the framework?

• 29:28Lewis Howes?

  Let's do it, yes.

• 29:29Speaker 03

  Okay, so it has to do with how people respond to expectations, outer expectations, like a work deadline, or a request from a friend, or inner expectations, your own desire to keep a New Year's resolution, your own desire to start, but write a novel in your free time. So upholders readily meet outer and inner expectations. They meet the work deadline, they keep the New Year's resolution without much fuss.

• 29:49Lewis Howes?

  Upholders.

• 29:50Speaker 03

  Upholders.

• 29:51Lewis Howes?

  Anything that they set for themselves or anyone else asks them to do, they do.

• 29:54Speaker 03

  Yes, yeah.

• 29:55Lewis Howes?

  Okay. Why do they do that?

• 29:57Speaker 03

  Hermione Granger is like the most, right now is probably the most famous upholder in the world. Then questioners. Questioners question all expectations, they'll do something if they think it makes sense. So they make everything an inner expectation. If it meets their standard, they will meet it no problem. If it fails their standard, they will resist. They hate anything arbitrary, inefficient, or unjustified. Whenever anybody uses the word arbitrary, it's like a big warning sign, it's a big signal that they're a questioner. Then obligers. So this is Christine Obliger. They readily meet outer expectations, but they struggle to meet inner expectations. Like I had a friend who said, "Oh, well, when I was on a track team, I never missed track practice, so why can't I go running now?" It's like, "Oh, well, when you had a team and a coach waiting for you, you had no trouble showing up, well, when you're just trying to go running on your own, you struggle."

• 30:41Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 30:41Speaker 03

  And then finally rebels. Louis, you're a rebel. So rebels resist all expectations, outer and inner alike. They want to do what they want to do in their own way, in their own time. If you ask or tell them to do something, they're very likely to resist. Typically, they don't even want to tell themselves what to do, like they might not say, like, "I'm not going to sign up for a 10 a.m. spin class on Saturday, because I don't know what I'm going to feel like doing on Saturday."

• 31:00Lewis Howes?

  That's so me. I don't like planning anything.

• 31:02Speaker 03

  That's the thing, spontaneity.

• 31:03Lewis Howes?

  Wait until the last minute, then I'll plan and commit.

• 31:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, a lot of spontaneity. Again, like, there's certain things that people say, and you're like, "Mm, that's a tip-off." When anybody's trying to talk about, like, it's important to be spontaneous, I'm like, "I bet you're a rebel."

• 31:15Lewis Howes?

  So someone who likes to schedule out a year in advance, who is that?

• 31:18Speaker 03

  Well, that could be upholders, or questioners, or obligers, though it's very typical of upholders. But the thing about rebels, and I think you're a great example of this, Louis, is they can do anything they want to do. They can do anything they choose to do. You and I are both friends with Chris Gilbo, great, a brilliant, great guy. He's a rebel. Because once they make up their mind, they can do anything, but the fact that you're telling them to do something is not going to make them do it, and might make them be like, "You know what, you're not the boss of me, I'm not going to do that right now, or I'm not going to do it at all." Because...

• 31:47Lewis Howes?

  It's almost reverse psychology. You tell me I can't do something, then I'm gonna rebel against you and say, "You know what? I'm gonna show you."

• 31:52Speaker 03

  So, in that, people can use that. So, for instance, let's say you have a rebel in your life and you wanna encourage that person to quit smoking. You wouldn't say, "You have to quit." You wouldn't say, "You should quit." You shouldn't say, "The doctor says you have to quit." You shouldn't say, "You promised me you'd quit."

• 32:05Lewis Howes?

  I bet you can't quit, though.

• 32:07Speaker 03

  Yeah. "Guy like you, you've been smoking 10 years. You're addicted, man."

• 32:11Lewis Howes?

  There's no way you can quit.

• 32:12Speaker 03

  There's no way you can quit. Big Tobacco's got you right where they want you. You're pouring money into their pockets.

• 32:17Lewis Howes?

  Yep.

• 32:18Speaker 03

  Why even bother?

• 32:19Lewis Howes?

  Don't even try.

• 32:20Speaker 03

  You can't, don't even try.

• 32:21Lewis Howes?

  Keep smoking for the rest of your life.

• 32:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, keep smoking.

• 32:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 32:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, Big Tobacco, you're the guy they're depending on. Yeah, yeah, you're stuck, you can't quit. Yeah. And then often, they'll do something in their own way, too. Like, doing a typical cessation program, they're like, "No, I'm gonna just go hardcore and quit overnight, or I'll have my own system for doing it." So, that's...

• 32:39Lewis Howes?

  It's a process for them that works.

• 32:41Speaker 03

  They wanna do it their way. Yeah.

• 32:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's totally...

• 32:43Speaker 03

  So, sometimes you could say, "Well, sometimes this works for some people, or some people like this, and this, I've seen people have success with this, and maybe you wanna think about this when you're thinking about what would work for you." But then it's just whatever you think, you know, whatever works for you. And, you know, "I've seen you do amazing things in your time." If you make up your mind that you wanna quit, I don't know, maybe you could quit. Because I've seen you do some pretty powerful stuff when that's what you want. So, when you make up your mind, you know, that kinda thing.

• 33:07Lewis Howes?

  Are we born with these tendencies, or are we, we are?

• 33:10Speaker 03

  I think we're, I think they're inborn. I think they're part of our, our personality.

• 33:13Lewis Howes?

  Or is it triggers of things that happened in our childhood?

• 33:16Speaker 03

  I don't think so.

• 33:16Lewis Howes?

  That make us start resisting and reacting, and then we become rebellious, or whatever, no?

• 33:21Speaker 03

  I really think that these are inborn. You're not one at 20 and one at 40. You're not one at work and one at home. They're really hardwired into your personality.

• 33:32Speaker 04

  What's fascinating about what we found in interviewing thousands of entrepreneurs is that there's not just one way to build a team. And so when we looked at a whole series of factors that make up one's personality, or we call it your builder personality, what we discovered is that there are actually four types. You know, the press wants us to believe that you have to be like Steve Jobs or Elon Musk. And in fact, that personality type exists.

• 33:59Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 34:00Speaker 04

  But it's only one of four.

• 34:01Lewis Howes?

  Genius savant type of like...

• 34:02Speaker 04

  Well, it's that and it's hard driving. And the other key aspect of it is someone who focuses more on the product than the people, or the problem, or perhaps the mission. In fact, John will tell you a little bit about. So the driver is this, we like to say he's product or she's product fixated, but quite different from another type that we call...

• 34:23Lewis Howes?

  Like obsessed with the product, it's gotta be their way, it's perfect.

• 34:26Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 34:27Lewis Howes?

  It's when you hear the stories of Steve Jobs punching people or throwing stuff in the fish tank or whatever. It's like, there's air bubbles in there or whatever, right?

• 34:35Speaker 04

  Exactly, exactly. But very different from the explorer. John will tell you a little bit about that.

• 34:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, the explorer is really the puzzle solver. The explorer is drawn to the intricacy of some challenge. And almost we see the entrepreneurial activity as a way of commercializing this ingenious solution that they've come up with. They have a tendency to shift their curiosity because the next new puzzle may attract them before they've had an opportunity to fully scale.

• 35:00Lewis Howes?

  Shiny balls syndrome.

• 35:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly.

• 35:02Lewis Howes?

  It's hard to keep them focused on one thing for a few years or even a few moments.

• 35:07Speaker 05

  Or to recognize the diversity of the talents that they need to surround themselves with so that the business can actually scale based on that initial solution.

• 35:14Lewis Howes?

  As opposed to just being the million dollar idea guy.

• 35:17Speaker 05

  That's right. No, that's right.

• 35:18Lewis Howes?

  I've got this million dollar idea, let's do it.

• 35:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's the first one. That's the driver. Million dollar idea. It's all about the idea.

• 35:24Lewis Howes?

  That's not the explorer.

• 35:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, so that's the explorer. That's the systems. That's the systems analytic, the puzzle solver.

• 35:30Lewis Howes?

  Puzzle solver.

• 35:31Speaker 05

  The puzzle solver. So the third one, the third one is what we call the crusader. And the crusader is somebody who is fundamentally inspired by a long-term vision. Sometimes not even a vision about the business per se. You might become an entrepreneur by accident almost. If you think about a couple of crusaders like Ben and Jerry's. You know, was Ben and Jerry's created to sell ice cream, or was it created to sell social change using ice cream and using the social benefit and the quality of ingredients as a way of getting the message out to millions and millions of people. So those are the first three. And then the fourth one.

• 36:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, and the last one is the captain. And so if the first one's about product, the second is about problem, the third is about mission, the captain is really most about people. Of course, they all have to worry about people, but just like when you played sports, the captain of the team could tap the inner productivity of the team, right? Could go to the guy who's not playing well and say the right things to get him or her to play better. So the captain taps that sense of productivity in a way that the others don't.

• 36:38Lewis Howes?

  Right. So if you're not a, if you're a driver, then you need a captain on your team.

• 36:46Speaker 04

  Such a great point, right? Such a great point.

• 36:48Lewis Howes?

  So you can't, you can't do it on your own without having a captain.

• 36:51Speaker 04

  You are an amazing dude because you just went to the very last chapter where we talk about the fact that these four actually pair quite elegantly in terms of their ability to teach one another. The driver needs to learn from the captain and vice versa.

• 37:06Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 37:06Speaker 04

  The crusader from the explorer and vice versa.

• 37:09Lewis Howes?

  Can someone be all of them or mixture or is it kind of like?

• 37:12Speaker 05

  Well, it's interesting. You know, let's, let's use your, you were a decathlete earlier in your career, right? So we suggest that basically at some point, yes, you have to know yourself. We pay homage to Socrates, of course, but if we were going to amend that statement, it would really be apply yourself. Use the knowledge that you have and then put it into action.

• 37:37Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yes. There you have it, my friends. Understanding Human Psychology, LewisHowes.com/656. If you enjoyed this one, make sure to share with your friends, tag me on your Instagram story and let me know what you think. This is all about how do we understand ourselves better? How do we understand the way we think, the way we feel and optimize this process so we can optimize our lives? Again, a big thank you to our sponsors. A big thank you to the fan of the week, Matt Holliday. If you haven't left a review yet, you can head over to the podcast app right now. It takes two seconds. Click on the star you want to leave the review. We've got over 3,000 plus five star reviews. So thank you to everyone

• 38:16Lewis Howes?

  who has left one already. And as Ralph Waldo Emerson said, "To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you into something else is the greatest accomplishment." Again, you are a unique individual in the world. No one is like you. No one has your makeup. No one has your abilities. You are different. You are special. You are unique. And it's important to understand your own psychology. What makes you tick? What makes you unique in that way? So that you can learn to connect with other people and pursue the life of your dreams. I hope you enjoyed this one. I love you so very much. And you know what time it is.

• 39:01Lewis Howes?

  It's time to go out there and do something great.