118 How to Become the Person Everyone Wants to Know with Keith Ferrazzi

"Greatness is impact and impact is service." - Keith Ferrazzi If you enjoyed this episode, check out the videos and show notes at www.lewishowes.com/118. Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 118 with New York Times bestselling author Keith Ferrazzi.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  What is up everyone? Thank you so much for joining me today on the School of Greatness podcast. I've got my good friend Keith Ferrazzi on. Now, for those who don't know who Keith is, he has won a place as one of the top thought leaders in American business. In his first book, Never Eat Alone, redefined the way networking is done today. His number one New York Times bestseller, Who's Got Your Back, focuses on lifeline relationships, a narrow category of deep trusting peer relationships that disproportionately affect our careers and well-being. He's also been named a Global Leader of Tomorrow by the World Economic Forum,

• 1:15Lewis Howes?

  one of the top 40 under 40 business leaders by Crane's Business, and one of the most creative Americans in Who's Really Who. And I had a chance to host a networking event, really, I guess more of a dinner at his home recently. And it was amazing to witness the power of bringing people together and watching how Keith actually does this. He did it in such a vulnerable, authentic, inspiring way where he brought different people together and created such a safe space in his home to have people open up and share things that they, you know, don't share to strangers normally. And it was really cool to watch and to be a part of and to experience.

• 2:00Lewis Howes?

  So I wanted to dive in with Keith and really understand why he does what he does and understand why it's so important to build value. Valuable relationships and how to cultivate them and how to get to where we want to be by becoming powerful networkers. But Keith talks about it in a way that is really inspiring today on this interview. I got to sit down with him in his office and we dive in deep about this topic. So I'm very excited to dive in. I want you guys to take notes on this one because it's got some great information. I'm also gonna have a lot of links back on the show notes over at lewishouse.com/118. Also, you can watch the full video interview of me and Keith at the

• 2:43Lewis Howes?

  show notes back at lewishouse.com/118. And we'll also have an additional video, a great little strategy video that Keith does at the end, a prompt to one at the very end that you're gonna want to watch as well. So make sure to check out those show notes. But let's go ahead and dive into this episode with the one and only number one New York Times bestselling author Keith Ferazzi.

• 3:10Lewis Howes?

  So we're here with Keith Ferazzi. How's it going Keith?

• 3:12Speaker 01

  Lewis, good to see you.

• 3:13Lewis Howes?

  Good to see you. Thanks for bringing us to your headquarters here in Los Angeles. Really excited to interview you and learn more about what you're up to and learn just how you've become so successful in the terms of relationship building. And I always tell people that I'm actually grateful that I was a stupid kid growing up, that I wasn't good in school because it forced me to figure out how to connect with people and share other gifts with people so that I could get to where I want to be in my life.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  You know, some of the most successful entrepreneurs grew up with learning disabilities because exactly your point is they had to rely on other people. And in order to build their teams, grow their organizations, a lot of dyslexics actually have been great entrepreneurs who learn early on that people are critical to them being successful.

• 3:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Were you dyslexic?

• 4:00Speaker 01

  I'm not.

• 4:01Lewis Howes?

  Did you have learning challenges?

• 4:03Speaker 01

  No, I've got a lot of challenges. Learning was never one of them. Learning was never one of them.

• 4:08Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. So you're like an A plus student?

• 4:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was. I was scared to death not to be. My parents invested so damn much in me and we were poor as all get out. My dad was unemployed most of my young life. My mom was a cleaning lady. They bent over backwards to me and I would never defy the work that they put into me to not return a good grade. But I do have to say that I have struggled. And I was a really independent performer in my athletics. I was a wrestler. I was a pole vaulter. Right?

• 4:41Lewis Howes?

  You did the pole vaults?

• 4:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, did you really?

• 4:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna ask you.

• 4:45Lewis Howes?

  I was the athlete. What was your?

• 4:46Speaker 01

  I was gonna say, I'm not gonna ask you what you cleared.

• 4:48Lewis Howes?

  What did you clear?

• 4:49Speaker 01

  I'm not even talking about it. We're gonna move on.

• 4:50Lewis Howes?

  Was this high school or college?

• 4:51Speaker 01

  It was high school.

• 4:52Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  It was high school. I cleared more than my height, put it that way.

• 4:56Lewis Howes?

  That's good.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  But my point is that I had, everything that I teach people, I had to learn myself. I mean, this wasn't natural to me. It wasn't forced through, you know, being dyslexic and having to rely on others. And I think that's one of the reasons I've been as good as we have been at our company at translating some of these amorphous soft skills into real practical tactical action because I had to put them to practice myself.

• 5:23Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. Now, did you have any mentors growing up as well that supported you with some of these things? Or was it all like?

• 5:29Speaker 01

  You know, I actually, that's a good question because to me mentorship is a very misunderstood idea. Most people think of mentors as, you know, let's find a guy like Lewis here who we look up to and would like to aspire to be and please, you know, allow me to learn everything at your feet. That's kind of bullshit.

• 5:48Lewis Howes?

  Which doesn't work.

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Well, I don't know if it works or not, but the bottom line is you are a mentor. The lunch that we had together, you coming up to my house, what I learned from your podcast, from your work, teaches me something. And if I can't find, I need to find a group of people in my life constantly that I'm learning from. They're my mentors.

• 6:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't try to rest too much weight in any one individual. Our job is to create a set, a roadmap of individuals in our lives through whom we learn. Right? And I just started a new, I was just chatting with you about a second ago. I started a new high-tech, mobile, enterprise, software company. Right? I am so out of my element. But, you know, I'm raising money, I'm hiring individuals, I'm coming up with strategy, I'm building a sales force, I'm doing a lot of the stuff I know how to do, a lot of stuff I don't know how to do. I am finding mentors. Left and right. It's survival.

• 6:44Lewis Howes?

  You are, yeah.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  So mentorship to me is about relational learning. And if you think about it that way, then you then you don't have a mentor. You have many mentors around your learning roadmap.

• 6:55Lewis Howes?

  What is relational learning? What does that actually mean?

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Relational learning is just that. You you figure out, all right, what what are my goals in life? You've got plenty of goals in your life. And we've talked about these at lunch. I remember that great conversation we had. And then what you do is you assign to your goals a relationship action plan. And a relationship action plan, as I teach in every alone, had to do with who are the individuals that will open up opportunity for me, right? That's great. But then the next question is, who are the individuals that'll teach me the stuff I need to do to be successful? Once I get there and on my way to getting there. That's a distinct relationship map. Do you have the opportunity relationship map? Who's going to get me that job? Who's going to introduce me to the network that I need? Who's going to help me get clients? Opportunity network.

• 7:38Lewis Howes?

  Which is huge.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  And then the relational learning network is separate, right? And I think both are critical to be curated.

• 7:45Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. What's more important? Getting the foot in the door or?

• 7:49Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, right? I mean, because if if you if you show up as an empty suit without the intellectual curiosity, without the inquisitive questions, which I learned from those the learning roadmap individuals, the relational individual, uh, learning roadmap. It's it. The answer is yes. Like, I mean, look, I guess I would rather get a shot at the job. If I had to choose one or the other, the opportunity roadmap is critical. Uh, but I have to tell you, you'll never exceed, you'll never grow. And then the third set of relationships, which we've talked about, are the lifelines that actually go one step deeper. It's not about knowledge acquisition. It's about butt kicking accountability. It's that small group of people, those lifeline relationships, as I talk about in Who's Got Your Back? That won't let you fail.

• 8:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Right? So for us to achieve anything we want to achieve in our life, we got to have the opportunity. We gotta have the the knowledge and the wisdom, but then we have to have the chutzpah, the push, the drive, the accountability, that frankly, most of us will fail ourselves and need somebody else for butt kicking.

• 8:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly. And the challenge I see with most people is that they don't have a support group, or accountability group, or a mastermind, or whatever you want to call it. So how does someone first find that and figure out who the right people are that aren't going to suck the energy from them, but are also going to give and take at the same time?

• 9:08Speaker 01

  Look, it's trial and error. When I wrote Who's Got Your Back, there's a chapter in it that talks about the long, slow dinner. And, you know, I think by the time we're done here in a short period of time, I want everybody who's watching us to have a relationship action plan. So, you know, as we're sitting here, scribble down your goals. And next to every goal, start writing three to five people's names critical to achieving those goals, right? That's the opportunity group. Then, I want you to ask yourself, who to achieve my goal do I want to learn from? Write those names down. Then start imagining who are the people that I could trust around four core, there are four core characteristics of a lifeline relationship.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  And frankly, all relationships, but the but the tightest ones have to have four things. Number one is intimacy to the point of vulnerability. Can I tell you when, you know, I'm really feeling weak? Can I tell you when I'm up against the wall? Intimacy to the point of vulnerability. Second is generosity. Do I really want to help you and do you really want to help me? Do we do we care enough to help? Generosity. Candor, will you tell me the truth? Right? Most intimate, critical relationships lie to each other. And they shouldn't.

• 10:19Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  Candor and conflict avoidance is horrible.

• 10:22Lewis Howes?

  Why do they lie to each other? Because they just don't want to make each other feel bad?

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Placation, they think that that's their role to make each other feel good. Look, I mean, I think a lot of it is the people don't realize that relationships need to be leaned on. The relationships aren't scarce, that they're, a lot of people are conflict avoidant out of psychological fear of abandonment. I mean, there's a lot of insecurities and fear that drive our relational behaviors. And the, I have to say that conflict avoidance has to be one of the most erosive, erosive elements of organizational and human society. Right? So, the the fourth is accountability. Right? But candor and accountability together make a high-performing relationship. What I would do is I would list three people that you have a strong enough relationship with now.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  You and I, frankly, you and I have a perfectly reasonable and strong enough relationship. I call it a level two relationship.

• 11:17Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 11:18Speaker 01

  Maybe we're bordering on a three, but certainly two to three and three is a strong relationship. If, if you wanna go to a lifeline, which is like in my world, a three plus.

• 11:28Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 11:28Speaker 01

  What you're gonna do is you're gonna go out and have a long, slow dinner. You're gonna take your armor off and you're gonna say, look, here's what I wanna do. Here's what I'm afraid of. And here's how I think I'm gonna get there. What do you think?

• 11:42Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  And see how the person responds. Do they respond with candor? Do they respond, respond with intimacy? Do they let their guards down? Do they respond with accountability? At the end of the dinner, are they saying to you, dude, let's talk next week. Cause I'm, I think you should do these two or three things. And I'm gonna hold you accountable for them, damn it. Now, if after the dinner, they don't call you the following week, then maybe they're not the right person to be your lifeline, right? I know that was a very circuitous way to get to the answer your question.

• 12:11Lewis Howes?

  That's great. Interesting. Now, why is it so many? I, I love that process. And I think getting to the long, slow dinner is great. But there are so many, let me speak for men. And I'm gonna generalize it, cause not all men are like this. But why are so many men afraid to share what they're afraid of? And I think it'll be hard for a lot of men to get to that level. Especially with another man.

• 12:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:33Lewis Howes?

  Or another woman.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:34Lewis Howes?

  Um, why are men afraid?

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Talk about the sex issue as well, men versus women. Because both stereotypically have challenges. Associated with accelerating relationships and intimacy.

• 12:46Lewis Howes?

  But what I'm hearing, what I'm hearing from you really quickly is that you've gotta get vulnerable to really take the relationship to the next level and get the, the honesty, the feedback you need.

• 12:55Speaker 01

  The end of the day, vulnerability is fearful because people have all of the characteristics. They think that people are gonna use it against them.

• 13:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  You feel like you're gonna be weak, you'll be judged. You know, you're not the alpha in the pack. You're gonna be taken advantage of, et cetera. That's all of the, the, the sort of the primal reptilian brain fears and concerns associated with this, right?

• 13:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  In actuality, we know it's bullshit.

• 13:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  And it all boils down to cowardice. We're just too damn afraid to let our guards down. We're too damn afraid to be vulnerable. If I were to, you know, talk to your audience about my real life today, I mean, it's like. Alright, so I'm gonna be engaged to be married next year, which I'm thrilled about. I've got two boys, and these boys are tough, both foster kids.

• 13:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  For their sake, I don't wanna share some of the more challenging and both violent and illegal activities that I've been challenged with in the past year, associated with their behavior. And the failure that that makes me feel, right? The angst of how much accountability. You know, if your kid breaks the law, what the hell do you do about that? And, I mean, there's all answers, right? And I've been, my lifelines, I've been tapping into them with angst and tears and challenges. And, you know, my fiance and I are challenged constantly with how do we be good parents?

• 14:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  In this situation. It ain't easy, right? My business is going great, but we just launched a brand-new business, which of course draws energy and resources away, and I wanna show up for my investors. The first time I've ever taken outside money on something. And so, I'm more fearful of letting friends down, whose money I've taken away, than I ever have about anything else. This is the shit that I struggle with, right? Now, look, these are good problems to have, right? Not my boys' problems, but these are still generally, I'm a blessed man, good problems. But now let me stop. I just did a little exercise. I was authentic, fully. What do you think when I just said that? What do you think about Farazi as a result of that?

• 15:05Lewis Howes?

  I think, I think authentic, real, someone I can trust, someone who is open, who's willing to drop their guard, and someone who can have a real conversation with.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  And now, that isn't that you think, "What a wimp."

• 15:20Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  You didn't think, "Boy, I don't respect him anymore." Right? You know, we all deal with this stuff, and... The willingness to be transparent, purposefully, put yourself out there in an accelerated fashion, only accelerates the relationship. It only accelerates the relationship. And that's what, if that relationship is critical, which it is, look, everything we want to achieve and everything that we would like to have in our life will happen with and through other people. If you don't get damn good at being purposeful about the relationship strategy, which is why we teach the Relationship Action Plan. And beyond that, if you don't get willing to push the boundaries of your social discomfort, then you will be mediocre. You will just be mediocre.

• 16:05Lewis Howes?

  In your life.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  In your life.

• 16:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  You will not achieve what you deserve to achieve.

• 16:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 16:09Speaker 01

  And I don't want people to be mediocre.

• 16:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  I want them to have a shot like I did.

• 16:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Amen.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  Anyway.

• 16:15Lewis Howes?

  Amen for that. Now, when I hear you talk about this Relationship Action Plan, some people might, I understand what you're getting to, but some people might think, well, is that a little cheesy or lame or is that fake? That you're like, reaching out to someone for an action plan to get something that you want?

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Okay, so when my youngest boy came into our home, he's half Mexican, half African American, identifies though as African American. So I wanted to make sure he had good role models in the African American community. I put together a Relationship Action Plan around my boy. Right? So I said, I need to get to know, I'm poor when I grew up. And he, but he's a different kind of poor. He's a different kind of poor, like homeless, street poor.

• 17:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  Right? Drug dealing kind of stuff that he's dealt with, you know, kind of poor. I reached out to people who had come from inner city, homeless, drug dealing lifestyles, who are now titans of their industries, nonprofits, et cetera. I reached out and I said, hey, listen. I need you at my home for dinner.

• 17:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  You know, and I need this relationship. I'm good. I've done my research on you. I want to introduce you to five people in my network that I think will be of service to you, your foundation, your business, your stuff. But come on over, listen. At the end of the day, if we don't sync, that's all cool, but I want to give it a shot.

• 17:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  What's wrong with it? Why is that purposefulness? Right? Intentionality? Why is that fake? It ain't fake. I put it out there very clearly.

• 17:48Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  Right? So just because you're purposeful doesn't mean you're fake. It means it's important. So I mean, I think that's what I want your audience to recognize is that, you know, again, I'll go back to the basic fundamentals. Relationships are going to be critical to your life. You don't manifest those relationships and work them strategically, proactively, authentically, courageously, you will be mediocre.

• 18:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 18:10Speaker 01

  Welcome to the world of mediocrity. You don't want that for you.

• 18:14Lewis Howes?

  Right, exactly.

• 18:14Speaker 01

  So get off your ass. Put your relationship action plans together. Let your damn guards down. Accelerate relationships. You don't have much time.

• 18:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  Get on it.

• 18:23Lewis Howes?

  I like it. You talk about a lot, leading with generosity. Why is it so important to lead first with generosity? As opposed to asking, because you know, a lot of us, you know, I'm sure you get this, can I pick your brain? Or can you help me with this? People that you don't even know.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  First of all, here's the rule of thumb that I learned very early on. And it's not really true, but it's what I sort of felt. And that is that first rule of a relationship, no one wants one with you. All right? Now, if you make that acceptance from the beginning, that, you know, who the hell was I? A poor kid from Pittsburgh. Why did anybody want a relationship with me? I had to bust my butt to get people to want a relationship with me.

• 19:00Lewis Howes?

  You probably gave a lot.

• 19:01Speaker 01

  I had to work on charisma. I had to work on volunteering my time. I had to work on authentic flattery, letting people know how I admired them, make them feel good about themselves with me around.

• 19:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  I mean, that's what this young kid had to do. And then I had to go over and say, and by the way, you know, like, can I show up at your office and work for free on the weekends?

• 19:21Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  You know, anything, anything. You gotta bait the hook. Rodney Dangerfield used to say that, you know, he's like, he was, he was so ugly that his mother used to, has to have to tie a pork chop around his neck to get the dog to play with it. Right? So I had to realize that early on. What the hell was my pork chop? Any relationship I wanted, I had to make sure that I led with generosity.

• 19:44Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 19:45Speaker 01

  Now, once I showed up and I was a great kid, and or a great young man, or a great old guy like I am now, you know, then they will judge you based on whether or not they want to be with you.

• 19:59Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 19:59Speaker 01

  Now is when you start letting your guard down, be authentic, care. So intimacy, generosity, candor, and accountability. Intimacy and generosity are the two accelerants of the relationship. You lead with generosity, you follow with care. And I actually work before I meet somebody to think about how will I like this person? Not will I like this person, but how will I? What elements of what they do do I admire? Um, what do I know about them? Like, how do I how will I humanize them in my head? So I'm walking in, looking in their eyes, and I and the sparkle is already there. It's like, I like this, this dude or this gal. I already like him before I see him.

• 20:38Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  And if I psych myself into that, and I walk in with that way, with what I call five packets of generosity, meaning I've researched this individual, and I've identified five things that I think I could do to be helpful, which through the dialogue, I will figure out whether those five ways I can be helpful. Then I'm like, high five, and I've now earned the right to build an ongoing relationship, which now means follow up or fail.

• 21:02Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  Get back to them, continue to be generous, continue to stay on the radar screen. Something that we could, all these are just chapters in the books.

• 21:09Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  Um, pinging, making sure that I'm constantly staying on the radar screen, top of mind, you get it, yeah.

• 21:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, interesting. Wow.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  It's hard work.

• 21:18Lewis Howes?

  It is.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  Great.

• 21:20Lewis Howes?

  My question for you, I'm thinking is like, I know your age, I know how long you've been doing this for.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  I'm almost 50.

• 21:26Lewis Howes?

  Right? I know you have dinners every Friday night. I've been to your house, I've hosted one, and you're an incredible host for me to bring my, you know, friends.

• 21:33Speaker 01

  Great, good. We ought to do another one.

• 21:34Lewis Howes?

  I would love to, yeah, I would love to. And how do you ping thousands of people? You know, high-power influencers, great individuals who are all could be great friends to you.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  So, back in the day. When I started, it was, you know, on spreadsheets. And me personally, once a year, there was an annual Thanksgiving card. You know, I don't know if I told you about this, I don't give Christmas cards anymore. Because it's such a glutted and cluttered time.

• 22:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's too many.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  I create my own Thanksgiving cards.

• 22:05Lewis Howes?

  I like that.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  And we send Thanksgiving cards to the individuals we want to stay in touch with. Because it stands out. And I get CEOs of major corporations sending me an email saying, wow, thank you for that Thanksgiving card. I'd never gotten a Thanksgiving card before, right? So that's an annual outreach, one-time ping, right? That's easy. Then what I do is people who are high priority, critical individuals to me. I make sure that in the olden days, I would just research them. You know, just plug them into a web browser and search their name, their company, see what's going on. And just on a regular basis, once a month, I get five, 10 people, whatever it is. Look, now I got a system. We help organizations do this. So, you know, many of the CEOs in the Fortune 100, my company, actually helps them manage

• 22:50Speaker 01

  the 1,000 most important people to the growth of their corporation. So I have a system, I have a team, I have individuals that are just constantly doing this. My whole marketing department is putting our strategy to work. That's all it is. And so, you know, it takes money, it takes time today to do it at the scale that we do it at.

• 23:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  But just start, start, you know, 25 names, 25 names.

• 23:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and you know, I'm constantly going through my phone and just like texting people every once in a while, just sending my little audio note now, little videos.

• 23:21Speaker 01

  That's bathroom use of time at all, right? Exactly, just sitting there hanging out, just, you know, scrolling through the high priority individuals, sending them a text.

• 23:28Lewis Howes?

  Exactly, and I take a while in the bathroom because I eat a lot, so.

• 23:33Lewis Howes?

  A little too much. We just went intimate there.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, there we go, there we go.

• 23:39Lewis Howes?

  So tell me about this, you talked about you see a shrink, first off. And can you talk about if you still do that? And also, I heard that you do it in the office as well.

• 23:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:49Lewis Howes?

  Is that still part of the?

• 23:50Speaker 01

  We do, so.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  I have seen, you know, off and on in my life, plenty of psychologists, psychiatrists, that sort of thing. I've like, I've always been a glutton for insight, input and coaching. Right? I had some great coaches early on athletically. And the benefit of that, then I had, as you suggested, I had some great, some great teachers, some great mentors, some great friends. Constantly giving me real input. And I was always the kind of person that showed up and said, tell me more, critique me more. I want to learn more, right? So now, um, as I'm a successful individual, I want to make sure that I keep growing, keep getting better. So, uh, I have found, and it's interesting, I didn't find an individual, the person I ultimately found, we're behavioralists.

• 24:36Speaker 01

  We're behavioralists at our company. We don't kind of give a damn why you do what you do. I want to change the way you do, one day at a time. I wrote an article in the Harvard Business Review that came out in August. This, uh, two thousand and fourteen, that focused on how behavior change in all of us really follows the system of the 12 steps. Whether it's a large corporation or in just our lives. Exactly, that sort of thing. One day at a time, you have to change. And it's about showing up and behaving differently today, right? I, so I have a men's support group that I go to facilitated by a behavioralist, uh, here in Los Angeles. And what we do is every day we have, you know, and by back of my wallet, I could pull it out for you right now.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  Is a list of my defects of character, right? And those defects of character are things that I'm working on in leadership, in my family, you know, in my personal relationships, et cetera. Can you list a couple of them or off the top of your head or? Yeah, absolutely. Big shotism, I mean, is one of them. The idea that when I get insecure, I feel like I don't deserve to be in the room. And I'll, you know. Big shotism. Big shotism, right? Like I'll say, oh yeah, yeah, we're managing the cultural transformation of blah, blah, blah company or, you know, I was with so and so for dinner the other day. It's like bullshit. That's insecurity. That's the same kind of pure all behavior I had when I was in college. Right? And yet it's still there for me, out of my fear and insecurity of not being moving. Do you think it'll ever go away? What's that? Do you think it'll ever go away fully?

• 26:05Speaker 01

  It's ma- I get it manageable. Right, I get it manageable, so it doesn't, it doesn't

• 26:10Lewis Howes?

  Control you.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  The two of us. I mean, that's actually one of the lesser ones. You know, I tend to be, um, oh, no, actually, that's not one of the lesser ones. It's right on my list. I tend to be avoidant sometimes. Tough conversations, I would rather avoid them. A little conflict avoidant. So as a result, I need to be, you know, specifically more direct. I've got a bunch of them.

• 26:30Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  And I'm happy. Look, I write about them all the time in my book, so I'm not a fearful or afraid of these things. But here's what I do. Um, in the morning, I wake up, I say prayer, and I look at my list. And, and I try to imagine scenarios I'm going to be in during the day where these things will come up. Right? And I make promises to myself of how I'll behave in that situation. During the day, I have a buddy, um, that is not my behavioral coach, uh, but it's actually another buddy of mine, a lifeline. Who I will pick up the phone and I will call. We have a commitment to call each other every day. And I'll say, here's how my defects of character are showing up today. Right? And then when I go to bed at night, I say a prayer, and I re-look at all of the places they were, they were present. And I ask myself, who do I owe an apology to as a result of that?

• 27:15Speaker 01

  Right? And then I start the next day over again. Right? That's kind of diligence of behavior change. Imagine if the world practiced this. Right? I mean, this to me is, and it's, and it's what makes me a better entrepreneur every day. It would, it's what makes me a better spouse every day, which makes me a better father every day. And I, I'm not saying I'm that good. I got a long way to go.

• 27:38Lewis Howes?

  We've talked about it, yeah.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  You know, I got a long way to go in every single area of my life, and that's why I have that commitment. Now, on the shrink side, you were talking about this behavioral coach. He and I speak every Saturday morning. And in the meantime, my entire company has full license to give him a call and talk and squeal on me. If I'm misbehaving, about me. Right? So that he can kick my ass either privately or not on Saturdays if I've done anything during the week that I shouldn't have done.

• 28:05Lewis Howes?

  And say so and so wasn't feeling comfortable with what you did.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, or you can, you can share who it is or not share. We have a pretty transparent culture here, a very candid culture. So most people will come up and tell me. But I also, if I'm having a problem with somebody, I'll bring him in and we'll do couples counseling here in the, in the office. If I'm challenged with somebody and haven't been able to be as direct as I would want to be. Or, and sometimes when I get direct, I get, I get mean about it. Because I hold it back so much, by the time it comes out, it comes out as frustration.

• 28:32Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  And I don't want that either. So this is all the kind of stuff you deal with when you're living up in a screwed up head like mine and yours and everybody else's.

• 28:40Lewis Howes?

  Everyone's.

• 28:40Speaker 01

  So you just gotta work it.

• 28:42Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. Have you done any emotional intelligence type work or?

• 28:46Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 28:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah?

• 28:46Speaker 01

  I mean, we do as a business.

• 28:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Our company, we are a research institute of human behavior change in the workplace. We specialize in a few key areas. We specialize in high-performing teams and shifting behaviors for high-performing teams, all at the very executive senior levels of largest organizations. And we also work with sales forces. Those are the two major areas. So emotional intelligence and understanding, specific social styles, all of those things are elements of what we do. We're pretty sophisticated. There's a lady by the name of Annette Templeton, who I brought into the organization over the years ago. She helped develop a lot of the analytics around human intelligence and behavior at the Gallup Organization, the Strengths Movement, all of those things.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  Annette was formative of as the CEO of the consulting practice there.

• 29:36Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool, very cool. And how important do you think emotional intelligence is in building relationships or in being successful in business and life?

• 29:44Speaker 01

  You know, it's interesting. Emotional intelligence is one thing, it's critical. Your social style is critical. But your relational competency is also a little different and it's equally as critical.

• 29:54Lewis Howes?

  And what is that?

• 29:55Speaker 01

  So the relational competency, the way I could most easily phrase it is, are you the kind of individual that creates an environment around yourself that invites people in? Think about that.

• 30:06Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  Right? So.

• 30:08Lewis Howes?

  It's welcoming.

• 30:09Speaker 01

  And what's going on in your head when I say, what do you do that doesn't invite people in? Right? Big shotism, like we talked about, that doesn't invite people in.

• 30:18Lewis Howes?

  Ego or?

• 30:19Speaker 01

  Ego doesn't invite people in. Being frigid wouldn't invite somebody in. Being judgmental wouldn't invite somebody in. Being standoffish, being aggressive, you know, all those things don't invite someone in. So your relational competency is really contingent upon your ability to be that natural person that invites someone in. That doesn't mean that you're gregarious.

• 30:40Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  That doesn't mean you walk into a room and anybody notices you.

• 30:43Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  Right? But. It's one of those individuals that you don't quickly forget once you do get introduced.

• 30:49Lewis Howes?

  You've met a lot of people, a lot of successful people. Who was someone that stands out to you that just was so welcoming? Like, right when you saw them or met them, or every time you see them, they're just like, wow, like, they're so welcoming, and what is it that they do?

• 31:02Speaker 01

  Well, it's interesting. You know, the obvious ones, everybody always talks about Bill Clinton.

• 31:05Lewis Howes?

  Of course, I knew you were gonna say that, yeah.

• 31:07Speaker 01

  The Dalai Lama is like that. I mean, he just, his infectious little giggle, and how he sort of walks in, and just so calming. But my Aunt Rose, she was a deeply religious person. She made everybody feel good about themselves. Right? I mean, it doesn't have to be somebody famous. It's about divorcing yourself from self and from ego. And by looking at another person and being curious, and by looking at another person and caring about them before you even know who they are. Some people are hardwired in that brain to be tribal with humanity. Because what we're talking about, when we're talking about building relationships and accelerating them, is inviting people into your tribe. When I am at my dinner parties, I create a tribe of those there.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  A tribe is an intimate, caring, connected, candid, you know, sense of community.

• 31:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  And some people just emanate it. Right? And it's a mindset that they have. These are mindsets. But you don't, as they say in 12-step programs, you don't think your way into a new way of acting, you act your way into a new way of thinking. So, what I would suggest, if you want to be that kind of person, go practice.

• 32:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 32:20Speaker 01

  Everything boils down to the practice. Practice with the UPS guy.

• 32:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  You know, or the FedEx guy, sorry, if I'm both clients of mine.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  That, you know, make sure that you create, learn what it's like to let your stupid guard down.

• 32:35Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 32:35Speaker 01

  And divorce those defects of character and take risks.

• 32:38Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. What does anybody think about Bill Clinton or the Dalai Lama that they have that other people don't have as much, maybe, or?

• 32:45Speaker 01

  There's a give-a-shit there. It's just give a shit. You start with the presumption that I give a shit. Bill Clinton oddly enough wants to know what you have to say. You know, there's just a lot of politicians that don't. And his wife, by the way, is extraordinary extraordinary at this in a one-to-one basis. Uh, Hillary is awesome. She she is and she her memory is is extraordinary. I hadn't seen her for years and um I saw her recently at a Clinton Global Initiative event. She came up to me, she gave me a hug. She said, you know, how's Los Angeles?

• 33:13Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 33:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. How's Los Angeles? Um, and I, you know, I told her about uh the the two foster kids. She goes, no, no, no. Kelly, which is a mutual friend, had told us that you had gotten. And she and she's like, Daniel? I was like, are you kidding?

• 33:27Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  Like, seriously?

• 33:28Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 33:30Speaker 01

  Amazing. Now, by the way, most of us, the reason we don't remember people's names is we don't give a shit. Like, I guarantee you, you walk in to a bar and you see the most extraordinarily beautiful individual that you've seen in a very long time. You go up and you say hello and they say their name. Guess what? I bet you remember.

• 33:49Lewis Howes?

  There's motive, right?

• 33:50Speaker 01

  I bet you remember because you give a shit.

• 33:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  On the other hand, if you know, if you go to a conference event and some guy that looks like an accountant walks up to you in a group of people and you're shaking six hands, I promise by the time you get to the third, you won't have forget. You won't have remembered him at the second. And as you know, I'm just using that as an example, but you got to give a shit. Now, until you do, you practice.

• 34:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:13Speaker 01

  There's another phrase called fake it till you make it. You know, it's like, okay, I gotta practice this. I gotta remember. I gotta play it over my head again because it matters. My dad would say the the sweetest and dearest word in the English language is a person's name. Actually, he stole that from Dale Carnegie.

• 34:27Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  But it's a it's it's still a great thought. Um, practice, practice, practice, caring.

• 34:33Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Gosh, well, how does Bill Clinton and Hillary, how do they that make that their main focus? They care so much about everyone else?

• 34:39Speaker 01

  That is their profession, right?

• 34:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  It's like, they care about- That's their profession. That's their currency. That's their profession.

• 34:43Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing. Wow, okay. A few questions left for you. Um, tell me about online relationship building versus online offline relationship building? And, you know, what are we able to do now?

• 34:55Speaker 01

  To accelerate our relationships through online relationship building. Alright, so think of a bullseye. At that center are your lifelines, right? The next rung out are your A-level priorities, the most critical individuals to your goals and dreams of the next year, right? And how many are in the lifelines, like, at a time? Well, it depends. I mean, you know, you could have, I am blessed with this, this men's group that I, that I go to. It's a Christian group that I probably have, you know, I got 15 people I could have this relationship with. It's, and that's unheard of, right? If you get two or three people, 50% of Americans say that no one has their back, that they have zero lifelines. And of those who say that no one has their back, 60% of them are married, alright? Wow.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  Crazy, crazy. We wonder why our divorce rate is, etc. It's just crazy. But, you know, coming back to this idea of you get the center, you got that next group. But all the way out to the periphery is your online network, right? The, the people that I follow online to learn from them, right? That's my learning network. I might follow them because I'm curious of what they have to say. Yeah, you read a blog post, listen to a podcast. You know, I follow them on Twitter, whatever it happens to be. That, that's a part of your learning network. That's the same thread that follows through down to the learning lifeline. The person that's in my lifeline because I really want to learn from them, right? But it goes a whole way out and a whole way back in.

• 36:18Speaker 01

  You go on the outline, you know, I've got thousands, hundreds of thousands of people that I interact with in some form or fashion, given my career and my brand and that sort of thing. And, you know, the ability, and there's nothing wrong with having loose ties and loose connections. Because when all of a sudden I want to dial up something that's interesting to me, I shoot it out to the world and what I get back is a set of responses from individuals. And then I bring them one step that I might call them or do a webex. You bring them into the middle. Well, I don't know, all the way to the middle, but I bring them closer in based on. So there, it's, it's, it's immensely rich opportunity to nurture a, you know, a, a, a field of relationships that you can then draw in and out of, but still you gotta be generous. Sure.

• 37:00Speaker 01

  I've gotta give back to my community, you know, just like you're doing with these podcasts. Yeah. You give, you give, you give, you retweet, you follow, you send recommendations on LinkedIn. You practice the same damn rules.

• 37:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, to show you care.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  Out there, you show you care.

• 37:16Lewis Howes?

  Interesting, okay. What do you feel like you were born to do? What do you feel like you're here? Your real mission is? Like Keith Ferrazzi is supposed to do this in the world. And do you feel like you've scratched the surface in doing it?

• 37:30Speaker 01

  No, no, I haven't. I'm still, the more I work on becoming the man I want to be, the more I will unleash what it is I am really here for. And look, my suspicion is the stuff I wanted to be young were wrapped in ego and self and not really grounded in why I was probably put here in the first place, right? So I think it's a discovery for me to figure out why I'm here. I probably haven't even begun to fulfill any of it in my life, is my suspicion. But in the meantime, I love what I've done and I love the ability to serve. Look, a legacy is about service. And whether you're proud of the legacy with your children,

• 38:15Speaker 01

  proud of the legacy with your company. But for me, I hope to lead just the biggest damn imprint, footprint on the planet relative to service and being of service. Foster kids, this is a very challenge in broken space. These kids are really hurting and they don't have the relational competencies that we teach the rest of the world. They don't trust, they can't keep jobs, they can't stay in families. So that's an area, I don't know if that's going to be the culmination of it. Human rights violations around prejudice and diversity. African American, having an African American kid has made me much more sensitive to all rights of prejudice, whether it's minority groups of gay and lesbian

• 39:00Speaker 01

  and that's just all of the groups that I have begun to care more and more about. I don't even know, there's so much work to be done. Just keep trying to be of service.

• 39:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's cool. What are you most grateful for this year or recently as well?

• 39:14Speaker 01

  My fiance, just my relationship and growing closer and closer in my relationship. And it's interesting, as I didn't start it by focusing

• 39:25Speaker 01

  On my family relationships, I started it by wanting to be a better entrepreneur. I'm deepening my relationships at the company. And the tools that I grew around myself with some of this accountability with my Lifeline group, my entrepreneurial meeting that, you know, this Christian men's group, it's very entrepreneurial in nature, that that stuff has seeped back into my personal life. And I think what's a great thing about what we do, when you're changing human behavior, you're seeping back and forth with the same. It's like what changes I make as a leader or what changes I make at home and at home here, it's really quite a gift. And I know, look, when I was a kid, I wanted to be a preacher. And my dad's like, "No way in hell you're gonna be a preacher."

• 40:10Speaker 01

  You know, "I'm putting all this money into your education, you're not gonna make whatever preachers make." So I now think that I've got, my pulpit is five days a week, not one. If I've got people at work, I can change the way people show up. And as leaders, as salespeople, as business professionals, I love that. I love that. And, you know, so anyway.

• 40:33Lewis Howes?

  Very cool. Final question before I ask you the questions, which is what I ask all my guests. I want to acknowledge you, Keith, for showing up. And, you know, we met, I think, four years ago at Summit Series, briefly.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  I love those guys.

• 40:47Lewis Howes?

  These are amazing. And you have, I've watched you over the last four years, show up in such a positive, powerful, huge way, with a big heart, and going to your house, welcoming in. You just really do care. And, you know, I know how hard it can be sometimes for people who have a lot going on, big companies, big missions, and I acknowledge you

• 41:09Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 41:10Lewis Howes?

  for showing up and caring and bringing it down to a human level with people. And it's really inspiring to see what's possible. So thank you for that. And the final question is, what's your definition of greatness?

• 41:22Speaker 01

  I think it's impact. Greatness is impact. And impact is service. And I want to have the most people in the world, whether they acknowledge it or not, whether even know it was me or not. I want to have the most people in the world now and after I depart this planet, made better because I was here.

• 41:44Lewis Howes?

  Very cool. Keith Ferrari. Thanks, brother. Appreciate it.

• 41:47Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 41:53Lewis Howes?

  And there you have it guys, I hope you enjoyed this episode and Keith again really inspires me of what he's been able to create over the years and how he's built relationships over time as a marathon, not in how can you serve me, but how can I serve you and coming from a place of value first and giving. It's really inspiring to see what he's created and how he's built his business around relationships, around adding value and connecting others and supporting others to get what they want and helping people get the information they need. So what I want you guys to do is I want you to send this episode to one friend. I want you to email this to one friend, it's lewishouse.com/118. Someone who you think

• 42:37Lewis Howes?

  is trying to get to the next level but has been struggling for a couple of years. You know those one or two friends that you have that is doing the job that they are not happy in because they haven't gotten the raise or they're starting a company but they haven't seen success yet and they're struggling, they're constantly asking questions, why is this not working out, why am I stuck, I don't know what to do. You know those friends you have? Yeah, those friends. I want you to send an email to those friends and say, hey, check out this interview with Keith Farazzi, it's an awesome interview. Here's the link, lewishouse.com/118. Tell them to listen to it, tell them to download it on their iPhone or their Android and check out this interview, okay? I think it's really going to empower them to see what's possible

• 43:22Lewis Howes?

  and maybe see what they haven't been doing yet in terms of adding value to others and building those quality relationships. So do that for a friend today, I would appreciate it. And let me know what you guys think over at the blog, lewishouse.com/118. Leave a comment on the end, we'll have a question at the very end of the show notes for you guys. So I want you to leave a comment based on that specific question. And I just want to tell you guys so much again, thank you for all you do. I get emails every day from people that listen to the show. I've been meeting people all over the place lately in LA when I've been walking around, people come up to me saying, I love your podcast, I just started listening to it.

• 44:02Lewis Howes?

  Thank you so much. So it means a lot to me. You guys don't know how much this means to me because I do this for you. And I want to make sure that I'm serving you and creating a platform with incredible ideas and incredible people to support and serve you. That's my whole mission. So when you come up and you tell me, you know, thank you for this one episode. I got this one piece of nugget. That really, you know, shook me up and made me start thinking a little bit differently. And now I'm taking action on it. That's what I'm excited about. That's what lights me up. That's what keeps me going and keeps me going after the more inspiring and bigger guests and and all the people that I can attract in the world to come on this show who are doing incredible things and leading by greatness.

• 44:44Lewis Howes?

  So thank you guys for sharing what you love about the show and please give me feedback on what you would like to see in the future. We've got a lot of great episodes coming up. This is going to be the biggest year ever for the School of Greatness. And I'm so excited that you're along this journey with me. So thank you guys so much again, one more time. You know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.