The Great Office Coffee Election (Reheat)

“The time has come for us to change the coffee brand that we offer and we want your input!” The email came from Myiesha Gordon in the HR Department at WNYC. Like many others, Myiesha hated the office coffee.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dan Pashman?

  There's nothing quite like Aruba. The white sand beaches are truly unlike anything you've seen. But what really stands out is the food. Because Aruba's not like other Caribbean islands. French pastries, Spanish paella, Peruvian barbecue, papardelle that has no business being that good that far from Florence. Not to mention the local fare. Aruba's food scene pulls you in with its astonishing variety of cuisines and beyond satisfies you with its unexpected flavors. So plan your escape to culinary delight at aruba.com. Your taste buds will thank you. As we turn to fall and the weather starts to cool down, I think of things like crunching leaves. I think of sharing from the sidelines of a soccer game, walking the dog in the woods. And when I think of doing all those things,

• 0:43Dan Pashman?

  I'm usually wearing something from LL Bean. Whether it's my puffer vest, my puffer coat, my scarf, whatever you're doing outside this year, you probably need something from LL Bean. Whether it's their boots, their Scotch plaid flannel, their rugged field coat, or more. Grab the layers and people you love and get outside. Visit llbean.com to shop the fall collection. LL Bean, be an outsider.

• 1:18Dan Pashman?

  Hey, it's Dan here and I love this episode that we are sharing with you today. So it's called "The Great Office Coffee Election", and it is a, I wouldn't say minute by minute, but it is a beat by beat accounting of a very momentous thing that happened at the New York Public Radio offices when we used to do the Sporkful there. They decided to pick a new office coffee. There would be all this employee involvement. It got very intense and we chronicled the whole thing. We also, on the way, learned a lot about how caffeine affects the brain and productivity at work. You're gonna love it. As always, if there's an episode you want us to pull out of the deep freezer for a reheat, drop me a line at [email protected]. Thanks so much and enjoy.

• 2:02Dan Pashman?

  Ayesha, can I ask you to read your email? Okay. The mic, please. Okay.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  New coffee for the office. We love coffee around here and thankfully, we get it for free all day in the office. The time has come for us to change the coffee brand that we offer and we want your input. Step one, go to this link and make your suggestions. The top eight suggestions will be selected for an all-staff taste test. Step two, attend the all-staff taste testing event. Step three, vote for your favorite coffee. Step four, wait anxiously for the new coffee to be revealed.

• 2:50Speaker 02

  Oh my god, when I saw that email, I immediately responded, not reply, oh by the way, I am 45 years old, not a child. I just responded and said, "You are the most amazing person in the entire world."

• 3:03Speaker 03

  I was bouncing up and down in this seat because it's very exciting to have new delicious coffee potentially here for free, so I never have to leave the office again.

• 3:13Speaker 04

  No matter what gets chosen, it'll definitely be better than what we have now.

• 3:21Dan Pashman?

  This is The Sporkful. It's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show, we obsess about food to learn more about people. And this week, we will follow one woman's quest to get better coffee in her office. A quest that culminates in a company-wide taste test.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  I really couldn't sleep last night. I was tossing and turning, anticipating this day. I hope everything turns out alright.

• 3:45Dan Pashman?

  Later, we'll talk with a caffeine researcher and a behavioral economist. Do free office coffee and tea actually make us better workers? Do they make us happier in our jobs? Or most of us rather just have the cash? And what does one expert say about my own diabolical office coffee plan?

• 4:03Speaker 05

  There might be some individuals who will respond quite differently and it would be probably not very safe.

• 4:16Dan Pashman?

  So the office where this big coffee election happened is WNYC, where we used to produce the Sporkful. The process was led by a woman in HR named Myiesha Gordon. Maisha is the one who you heard before, who was tossing and turning before the big taste test. This whole project was her baby. And I can tell you, when her email went out announcing that we were getting a new office coffee, people were pumped. But as I told Maisha, I actually don't mind the coffee. Like, I don't love it, but I don't mind it. You know, I do drink it, and it doesn't bother me.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Is it because it's free?

• 4:47Dan Pashman?

  That's part of it.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:48Dan Pashman?

  Yes, free things do tend to taste better, I think.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  For me, I'm like, ah.

• 4:51Dan Pashman?

  I think I need to raise my at-home coffee game, because I do not make good coffee at home. So I actually fill up my, my travel mug before I leave here with the coffee, and I bring it home, put it in the fridge, and I wake up in the morning, I have my iced coffee, and it's day-old WNYC coffee.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  That...

• 5:08Dan Pashman?

  That I drink in my house.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Is an abomination. Oh, my goodness. Oh. When I started working here a few years ago, I hated the coffee. And I couldn't understand, like, I thought I was the only one. But after several conversations, like side conversations in the, the pantries with coworkers, it became evident that I wasn't the only one. And I swear, I probably, every person that I informally polled hated the coffee. So it's kind of been my personal mission to get new coffee.

• 5:48Speaker 06

  Maisha's like the agent of change here.

• 5:50Dan Pashman?

  This is Melissa Bauttizar. She works with Maisha.

• 5:53Speaker 06

  I started working here in 2012, and I was charged with changing the office coffee. Alison Murphy had this in the works for years. I know that for a long time, people have been dissatisfied with our coffee, and so now we're, like, able to really do something about it.

• 6:11Dan Pashman?

  So this is big then, because whatever we get from this process, it's what we're gonna have for a while.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, no pressure.

• 6:17Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 6:19Dan Pashman?

  Has anyone around the office been lobbying either of you?

• 6:22Speaker 03

  Not yet, but we need to get that going.

• 6:29Dan Pashman?

  A couple of days after Maisha's email to the staff, there were nearly 100 different suggestions for the new coffee. But some were long shots.

• 6:37Speaker 07

  My strong feeling on office coffee is that it should be replaced by Japanese canned coffee, which is delicious.

• 6:42Dan Pashman?

  Is it sweetened?

• 6:44Speaker 07

  A lot of it is. Some is unsweetened. I just really like Japanese canned coffee.

• 6:48Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, the setup we have is the one where you put the coffee grounds in a paper filter, and you put that into a machine, and it brews coffee into a carafe with a pump on top. The winner was probably gonna have to work in that system. After the submission process ended, I took the pulse of the office.

• 7:03Speaker 03

  I will drink whatever coffee my peers choose, and I'll drink tons of it.

• 7:08Dan Pashman?

  Do you know that excess caffeine consumption can increase anxiety and irritability?

• 7:15Dan Pashman?

  Did that question upset you?

• 7:16Speaker 03

  It did upset me, and you're kind of a jerk.

• 7:22Dan Pashman?

  Do you think there's any chance that the winning coffee will please everyone?

• 7:28Speaker 03

  Hell, no. Never. That's all right. It's a change, Dan, and we celebrate change.

• 7:33Dan Pashman?

  What's the best we can hope for here?

• 7:35Speaker 03

  I think the best to hope for would be my choices.

• 7:41Dan Pashman?

  It was time for Maisha to select the top eight coffees for the taste test. But it wasn't a straight vote. The eight finalists had to be screened to make sure they were within the budget and that there was a vendor for them. I mean, you gotta realize, there are about 400 people who work at WNYC, so these are not small concerns. And Maisha and Melissa were worried about finding eight finalists that fit within these parameters. Here's Melissa.

• 8:04Speaker 06

  There are other variables that we're looking at. It has to be comparable with what we're currently paying, and they have to be able to service our account in the way that we're being serviced now. So there's a lot of other criterias that they'll have to meet to stay on this list.

• 8:21Speaker 03

  Yeah. Are we gonna be able to get, you know, the top requests?

• 8:27Dan Pashman?

  Do you feel like the people who voted in this first round understand all of these factors?

• 8:36Speaker 01

  I don't think they understand, but I also don't think they care necessarily. Yeah, I don't think they they understand, like the the the price factor and our limitations. Yeah, I don't think they they understand.

• 8:52Dan Pashman?

  I think one of the things that is often true with the way that people vote in real elections is that they they just want someone to tell them that they're going to get what they want. I want to hear you talk to those people, put it in real terms. If I'm, you know, worker X, I just want the best coffee. I don't care. I don't want to hear any explanations, Maisha. I just want, just, just make me a promise that it's all going to be perfect. What do you say to me?

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Well, we are thankful that our employer provides free coffee for us, first of all. As with anything, we have restrictions, like we don't have an unlimited budget that will allow us to please only you. So what we want to do is have something that is beneficial for, you know, most of the people.

• 9:46Dan Pashman?

  Clearly, Maisha is thoughtful, prudent, and fair. And with that kind of attitude, she's not going to get elected to anything. We'll get to the big taste test in just a few minutes, but I wanted to look at all the reasons why office coffee is so important to us. I know for me, when I get my caffeine buzz going, I just feel like my brain works better. But does it really? Or is that just all in my head?

• 10:18Speaker 05

  It's probably one of the most widely consumed psychostimulants in the world, so it acts as a psychostimulant.

• 10:25Dan Pashman?

  This is Marilyn Cornelis. She's a professor at Northwestern who studies caffeine. She says it doesn't actually give you energy. Caffeine makes you feel more energetic by blocking the part of the brain that tells you to be tired.

• 10:37Speaker 05

  It increases your alertness, your mood, you you feel better. And if you're feeling better, you just, you become more productive, you're focused.

• 10:46Dan Pashman?

  So it is quite literally a performance-enhancing drug?

• 10:50Speaker 05

  Um, yeah.

• 10:51Dan Pashman?

  If I were an employer who wanted to get more productivity for my employees, would it make sense for me to switch to a different type of coffee that had a lot more caffeine? Would that be a good move? Would I have a more productive workforce?

• 11:07Speaker 05

  Individuals do respond differently to coffee or caffeine. So while generally the benefits might outweigh the risks, there might be some individuals who will react to it quite differently, and it would be probably not very safe.

• 11:21Dan Pashman?

  But Marilyn, I'm trying to do this in a way that they're not going to know that I'm slipping more caffeine in. Because if they know that the coffee is stronger, they may be liable to drink less of it. And then my secret plan to increase productivity will fail.

• 11:33Speaker 05

  Actually, it's funny you mention that because I'm not sure if this was published work, but a colleague of mine, they actually did this, where they alter the caffeine quantity of the coffee that they had in the break room. And people naturally reduce their intake. If they're already feeling very stimulated, they will naturally cut back. So I'd be very interested to see if you were to do that kind of experiment in your office, I bet you people will reduce the number of cups of coffee that they consume.

• 12:02Dan Pashman?

  And Marilyn, how much coffee do you drink?

• 12:06Speaker 05

  I only just moved to Chicago about two years ago. And prior to that, I didn't consume coffee because I didn't like the taste. I like the effects of caffeine, but I got caffeine from like tea or Diet Coke. But I only started drinking coffee when it came to Chicago. Actually, the very first day of my work, I think I had my first cup. I could drink maybe two cups a day, but generally maybe one cup.

• 12:26Dan Pashman?

  And do you find that you're more productive now?

• 12:29Speaker 05

  That, but I also feel more social. I think that's what's interesting about coffee is that when people talk about, you know, let's just go out for a coffee, it's like a social event. And around here, I attend a lot of research seminars, and coffee is what they're always serving, so coffee it is.

• 12:54Dan Pashman?

  Coming up, I'll talk with a behavioral economist about whether free office coffee is something companies should actually be spending money on. And of course, the taste test. Eight coffees enter, but only one can emerge victorious. Stick around.

• 13:21Dan Pashman?

  Ooh, advertisements. Yummy.

• 13:26Dan Pashman?

  There's nothing quite like Aruba. The white sand beaches are truly unlike anything you've seen. But what really stands out is the food. Because Aruba's not like other Caribbean islands. French pastries, Spanish paella, Peruvian barbecue, papardelle that has no business being that good that far from Florence. Not to mention the local fair. Aruba's food scene pulls you in with its astonishing variety of cuisines and beyond satisfies you with its unexpected flavors. So plan your escape to culinary delight at aruba.com. Your taste buds will thank you.

• 13:59Dan Pashman?

  As we turn to fall and the weather starts to cool down, I think of things like crunching leaves. I think of sharing from the sidelines of a soccer game, walking the dog in the woods. And when I think of doing all those things, I'm usually wearing something from LL Bean. Whether it's my puffer vest, my puffer coat, my scarf, whatever you're doing outside this year, you probably need something from LL Bean. Whether it's their boots, their Scotch plaid flannel, their rugged field coat, or more. Grab the layers and people you love and get outside. Visit llbean.com to shop the fall collection. LL Bean, be an outsider.

• 14:33Dan Pashman?

  Start the day strong with Quaker protein products. Quaker makes it easy and delicious to get a good source of protein. No matter what the day has in store, Quaker protein products give you a variety of ways to reach your protein goals. Oatmeal, granola, bars, and rice snacks and flavors you already love like maple and brown sugar and blueberries and cream. Quaker protein helps fuel you to start whatever's next. Get your protein with Quaker, available at a store near you.

• 15:04Dan Pashman?

  Welcome back to another Sporkful Reheat. I'm Dan Pashman. Hey, if you want to hear what I'm eating and reading every week, you should sign up for the Sporkful newsletter. I'll give you my weekly recommendations and so do our producers and the whole rest of our team. We also share announcements about exciting things happening with the show, when there's special discounts on my pastas. And on top of all that, if you subscribe to the newsletter, you're automatically entered into giveaways for cookbooks featured on the show, as long as you live in the US or Canada. There's literally no downside. Sign up right now at sporkful.com/newsletter. I promise we won't spam you. We're only going to send you really good stuff. Again, that's sporkful.com/newsletter. Thanks. Okay, back to the great office coffee election. After a lot of anticipation and several schedule changes, the day for the big taste test arrived.

• 15:49Dan Pashman?

  Maisha set up seven carafes of coffee in the office cafeteria. Not eight, because of the top employee submissions, only seven made it through the vetting. There was a cup in front of each carafe where people could put their votes, and a little description of the coffee next to each one. Number one, espresso roast, dark, pure, bold blend with a rich, full-bodied flavor. Number two, fruity notes with pleasant acidity and medium body with nutty, sweet, chocolatey notes. I do have to say, that part of the methodology was a little suspect to me. I mean, we know from research that if you tell people a drink has certain tasting notes, they're more likely to perceive those flavors. So, I was worried that those descriptions could skew the vote. But, Maisha, she was worried about everything.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Um, I don't know, I really couldn't sleep last night. I was tossing and turning, anticipating this, this day. I'm anxious, I, I'm excited, I feel, you know, hopeful that something good, something that I like is gonna win. So, I don't know, it's just, I'm a ball of nerves.

• 16:51Dan Pashman?

  Pretty soon, the taste test was underway. So, I make the first batch every morning. I get in about 4:40, and at about 4:45, I'm standing in the back in our kitchen, brewing the very first pot of the day, cleaning out the old stuff from like, 18 hours before. What does the office coffee mean to you? Like, why is it important to you? It means everything. I mean, honestly, if I can't get a little bit of wake-up in the morning, then our morning programming is just, it's just gonna suffer. Our morning host is gonna say something that I wrote that's gonna be horrible, and I'm gonna blame it on the coffee. But so, if we get new and improved coffee now, you're gonna have no excuses. See, that's what I'm worried about.

• 17:36Dan Pashman?

  Thea, what are your thoughts?

• 17:38Speaker 03

  I don't like this one.

• 17:40Dan Pashman?

  Number two?

• 17:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, Sky said he really liked it.

• 17:43Dan Pashman?

  So you can't trust what people tell you?

• 17:45Speaker 03

  It's too acidic.

• 17:46Dan Pashman?

  Too acidic.

• 17:46Speaker 03

  And it's too light.

• 17:49Speaker 07

  You know, I like good coffee, but I don't mind bad coffee. I think it helps you be more resilient in life.

• 17:56Dan Pashman?

  What'd you vote for?

• 17:57Speaker 07

  I think I voted for number one.

• 18:01Dan Pashman?

  One is disgusting. I can't believe anybody voted for it. Look at these. Look at how many are in here. What is going on? This has gotta be a mistake.

• 18:08Speaker 03

  No, that can't be.

• 18:09Dan Pashman?

  These people are masochists.

• 18:10Speaker 03

  Why do they do this? Does coffee need to be bitter in order to work? I disagree.

• 18:17Dan Pashman?

  They associate it with childhood trauma and they just need to be.

• 18:21Speaker 03

  Let's stuff the bell.

• 18:24Speaker 03

  Come on, number four.

• 18:27Dan Pashman?

  Alright, I gotta try some more coffee.

• 18:31Dan Pashman?

  Hey Anna, how you doing?

• 18:32Speaker 04

  Hi, is this live coverage?

• 18:33Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, Sporkful Team coverage.

• 18:37Speaker 04

  Awesome. I love coffee. And I do also believe in free coffee. So I rely on the office coffee. It's a part of my daily life, so this is really important. This is a really important day.

• 18:51Dan Pashman?

  Why? What do you think it is that makes office coffee so important?

• 18:55Speaker 04

  Well, I think sometimes when I drink the current office coffee, I think I don't have enough self-respect.

• 19:02Speaker 04

  This is part of my daily routine.

• 19:06Speaker 04

  Because it's just not, it's pretty weak. It's just not that great. But the other thing that's important about office coffee is it's what you offer guests. And so when you have to offer coffee to guests with the caveat, "It's really not that great a coffee, but if you really need some, we have some." So if it's like, you know, if we get an improvement on the office coffee, I think it's gonna just, it'll improve my everyday morning and also make me feel like a more hospitable radio host.

• 19:33Dan Pashman?

  I'm with Freakonomics Radio, so I think about this stuff a lot, but it's interesting.

• 19:37Speaker 06

  To think like utility maximizing what would make us most happy theoretically would for them to just give us money. Just because the coffee is a form of compensation. So this is an in kind compensation that they're providing us to us. That's interesting.

• 19:51Dan Pashman?

  I would suspect that most people, if they went out to buy cups of coffee, it would cost more per person.

• 19:55Speaker 06

  Right. So there's an economy of scale here.

• 19:58Dan Pashman?

  But like, but what they could do is they could, because some people don't drink any coffee. Some people drink tea. So it is a little bit unfair.

• 20:04Speaker 06

  It is unfair. It's like a redistribution of wealth from non coffee drinkers to coffee drinkers. If I, if they weren't giving it to me here, I would have to go all the way downstairs, nine floors. Like there's a lost productivity. It's, it's, it's an interesting argument. I don't know. But I, I think I'm definitely on the side of free coffee. And also number two, because it has fruity notes and is, it is really nice.

• 20:37Dan Pashman?

  For my vote, I was torn between number five and number six. In the end, I went with six. It was described as rich, long lasting and bold. And in just a minute, we will have the big reveal and the reaction. But I wanted to get more into some of those questions of economics. We heard earlier that coffee does make us more productive in terms of what it does to our brains. But what about the psychology of free office coffee? Does it make us like our jobs more and in turn work harder?

• 21:02Speaker 03

  If you're talking about the, the same worker and getting her to work harder. I'm not sure that offering coffee is actually going to have a long-term effect.

• 21:10Dan Pashman?

  This is Ian Larkin. He's a behavioral economist at UCLA.

• 21:13Speaker 03

  There's a lot of research that shows that, that good workers just work to the, the best of their ability anyway. My sense is it's probably not about productivity. It's more about attracting and retaining good workers that are already likely to be the type who work harder. Everybody likes to work in a supportive workplace where they.

• 21:32Dan Pashman?

  Feel valued and I think coffee can help contribute to that. So these perks are less about motivating people, more about getting and keeping the best people. And at many tech companies, it's gone way beyond free coffee. Google has a whole Indian restaurant at their headquarters. Facebook has 11 restaurants at theirs. And the food at most of these places is free or heavily subsidized. They use the these lunches as a way to stand out above and beyond other companies, tech companies in Silicon Valley, when they're trying to recruit workers. And I think it's it's really effective because it underscores what a fantastic work environment these companies have. But as other companies start to copy you,

• 22:14Dan Pashman?

  it can quickly become something that just becomes expected and it doesn't really affect anybody's decision anymore. And so you've just added additional cost. Ian says with office coffee, it's similar. As employees come to expect it, it has less value to us. But he says, even if it doesn't make us work harder, coffee and snacks can make us work smarter. People that, for example, are more full, feel more full and satisfied. They've just eaten a really satisfying meal. Tend to take fewer risks and actually have a longer term outlook. People that are feeling hungry or people that are feeling tired are more prone to decision making biases such as seeking risk or making decisions that are focused on the very short term.

• 22:58Dan Pashman?

  So I could certainly believe that coffee, because of its caffeine intake, causes people to make better decisions just because they're they're more awake. I asked Ian the question that Greg from Freakonomics posed. Would we just be happier with the cash instead of free coffee? Ian says if you polled people, most would say they prefer the cash. But There's a whole host of research that shows that when it comes to these small incremental nudges like awards or Coffee or the food, we tend to underestimate how much we really value it. Coming up, the big reveal. What will be our new brew? We'll find out. Stick around.

• 23:37Speaker 02

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• 23:44Dan Pashman?

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• 24:17Dan Pashman?

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• 24:59Dan Pashman?

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• 25:16Dan Pashman?

  Welcome back. Let's return now to the great office coffee election. Now, it's the moment you've been waiting for. A few days after the taste test, we gathered again in the cafeteria. The president and CEO of New York Public Radio, Laura Walker, made the announcement.

• 25:32Speaker 04

  So, the winner is Brooklyn Roasting Company's Mexican Chiapas Roast.

• 25:44Speaker 04

  From Oaxaca, Mexico. Characteristics. This is how they describe it. Smoke, peach, sandalwood, pecan, honey. I think we should all enjoy it, live with it, and celebrate the fact that we did get this done, and we have a great improvement. So, thank you, Maisha.

• 26:02Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, a big hand for Maisha. So, Maisha, here we are. We have a winner.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  Yes, finally. We're here.

• 26:14Dan Pashman?

  How are you feeling?

• 26:15Speaker 01

  I feel so...I know I said I felt relieved the other day, but I really feel relieved now.

• 26:20Dan Pashman?

  Well, but you know, it's an interesting thing in political campaigns. They often talk about how running a campaign is very different from governing.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:27Dan Pashman?

  You know, we now have a coffee elect here at WNYC.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 26:31Dan Pashman?

  But it has not yet been inaugurated.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 26:33Dan Pashman?

  You need to put in a transition team in place.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh.

• 26:36Dan Pashman?

  And now you've got to deliver on all this hope and change you promised.

• 26:38Speaker 01

  Oh, no. You have no idea the anxiety, the overwhelming anxiety that I just sensed right now. Because we do, you're right, we have to put it in place, but I don't think it's going to be like a, you know, ceremonious thing, like we'll just switch it off next week.

• 26:57Dan Pashman?

  Wow. So, this inauguration day is coming.

• 27:01Speaker 01

  Yes, it is.

• 27:02Dan Pashman?

  And, you know, right after the inauguration, there's going to be a certain amount of sort of political goodwill that you will have built up.

• 27:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:09Dan Pashman?

  Everyone will just be excited for a new cup of coffee.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:11Dan Pashman?

  But, you know, that burns out eventually.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:14Dan Pashman?

  And, you know, down the road, people are going to start to say, you know, it wasn't as great as we thought it was going to be.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  Right, right, right.

• 27:20Dan Pashman?

  How are you concerned about that, and how do you plan to deal with that?

• 27:23Speaker 01

  So, I expect that. We'll deal with that when it comes. And again, at one point, I was bringing in my own coffee, so people always have that option.

• 27:34Dan Pashman?

  That's right. People can always just go live in a cabin in the woods.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 27:38Dan Pashman?

  Choose not to take part in the system.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Get off the grid, the coffee grid.

• 27:55Dan Pashman?

  So the winner, Brooklyn Roasting Company's Mexican Chiapas Roast, which they now call their Mexico Roast. That was number four, described as medium to heavy body with dark chocolate and malt tasting notes. And after the new coffee was put in around the office, most people agreed it was a big improvement. But I was curious to see how long that goodwill would last. So, months later, I took the pulse of the office again.

• 28:19Speaker 03

  Well, I refused to drink it before, and now I drink it every day.

• 28:23Dan Pashman?

  So this has really been a positive change for you?

• 28:25Speaker 03

  It's been a huge change in my life. It's like a life upgrade.

• 28:27Dan Pashman?

  So how much money have you saved? How much money per year would you save? Do you save by getting coffee in the office?

• 28:33Speaker 03

  Oh my god, hold on.

• 28:35Dan Pashman?

  Let's run the numbers.

• 28:35Speaker 03

  Let me, I'm doing it right now. Let's see, 365, right? Is that what it is, 365?

• 28:40Dan Pashman?

  Yes, that's how many days are in a year.

• 28:41Speaker 03

  Okay, great, great. $1,095. Because I'm here every day. I never go home. I work 365 days a year. Yeah, it's kind of ridiculous.

• 28:52Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, okay.

• 28:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. The most disappointing thing since then, if this is to be the follow-up interview, is that we don't have urn cleaner. So the coffee has always got a bitter residue.

• 29:06Dan Pashman?

  I believe the technical term is gunk. It's the gunk.

• 29:09Speaker 03

  The gunk that has accumulated in these fabulous urns has started to make the coffee selection process another pointless venture and we might as well never have changed.

• 29:20Speaker 02

  I prefer cold brew coffee.

• 29:23Dan Pashman?

  Ugh, where in Brooklyn do you live?

• 29:25Speaker 02

  Greenpoint. I'm a cliche. The coffee is great, and it's free, and it's provided by my job, which makes me feel good about the place I work. I mean, it's been a positive change to the point where I often, when I'm like listing what I'm grateful for, as we're supposed to do, I'm like, I'm grateful for free coffee at work. And I am.

• 29:48Dan Pashman?

  Would you have said that with the old coffee?

• 29:51Speaker 02

  I did say it with the old coffee, but at the time I didn't know that it could be so much better.

• 30:09Dan Pashman?

  As for Maisha, a few months after the new coffee was rolled out, she decided to leave WNYC to travel the world. On her last day, I dragged her into the studio one more time. The coffee is like your legacy, right?

• 30:21Speaker 01

  It is. That's sad.

• 30:24Dan Pashman?

  Why is it sad? You should be proud.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  No, I am proud. I am proud and I think it was an improvement. It was such a small thing, but such a big thing. People really appreciated the effort that we put into making this change. And yeah, I don't mind this being my legacy.

• 30:50Dan Pashman?

  And now we have an all-new update on Maisha. She did travel the world. She met her now-husband in Denmark, moved to the UK. They got married there, moved back to the US and had a baby. They're currently in Tulsa, where Maisha is working on an art project for next year's Centennial of the Greenwood Race Massacre, which was the burning of a neighborhood called Black Wall Street by a group of white residents. Maisha also reports that she's drinking her coffee differently. She switched to a pour-over method in the UK because she couldn't find a good coffee machine in the small town they were in. And she's stuck with it. She says it's a lot of work, but it makes a better cup of coffee.

• 31:28Dan Pashman?

  This episode was originally produced by Anne Sanni, Shoshana Gold and me. Editing help from Dan Charles. Music help from Black Label Music. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.

• 31:37Speaker 02

  And this is Carrie Duggan. And Sarah Jamison. From Alexandria, Virginia. Reminding you to eat more. Eat better. And eat more better.

• 31:56Speaker 01

  Stay caffeinated, my friends.

• 32:01Dan Pashman?

  This reheat was produced by

• 32:02Speaker 03

  Gianna Palmer.

• 32:03Dan Pashman?

  The team that produces The Sporkful today includes me along with managing producer

• 32:07Speaker 01

  Emma Morgenstern.

• 32:08Dan Pashman?

  And senior producer Andres O'Hara. Our engineer is

• 32:11Speaker 07

  Jared O'Connell.

• 32:12Dan Pashman?

  Music help from Black Label Music. The Sporkful is a production of SiriusXM Podcasts. Our executive producer is Camille Stanley. And hey, did you know you can listen to The Sporkful on the SiriusXM app? Yes, the SiriusXM app, it has all your favorite podcasts, plus over 200 ad-free music channels curated by genre and era, plus live sports coverage. Does your podcasting app have that? And there's interviews with A-list stars and so much more. It's everything you want in a podcast app and music app all rolled into one. And right now, Sporkful listeners can get three months free of the SiriusXM app by going to siriusxm.com/sporkful. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.

• 32:53Speaker 05

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• 33:37Speaker 05

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• 33:55Speaker 05

  Hey, it's me, Teddy Swims. You hear that? That's life. So go grab it. Grab your old friends, grab new friends, grab a White Claw. Grab flavor for everyone in your group. Grab music, laughter, and moments you'll never forget. You'll never regret it. Oh, hey, man. Grab new friends, grab old friends, grab life. By the Claw, White Claw. Please drink responsibly. White Claw Seltzer Works, Chicago, Illinois.