456: Reddit Hired Attack, 281 Arrests in Florida, Husband Kills Wife’s Lover With His Kids in The Bed

Join Annie as she breaks down what’s happening in true crime this week.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Annie Elise?

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• 1:38Speaker 03

  I'm gonna stop you right now. No, you're not gonna stop me. Well, no, you I am. No, you're not. Because, all right, then this hearing's, you know, because there's no need.

• 1:47Speaker 04

  Gory new details and slaying of California man after husband caught him in bed with his wife and kids.

• 1:54Speaker 05

  We've obtained some new records tonight showing how a Buckeye man is accused of orchestrating a violent sexual assault inside his own home against his own fiance.

• 2:04Speaker 06

  Undercover crackdown on human trafficking and child exploitation in central Florida leads to nearly 300 arrests.

• 2:19Annie Elise?

  Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serial Insane.

• 2:42Annie Elise?

  Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all-new episode of Serial Insane. With me, your host, Annie E. Lice. Happy Thursday. Hope you are having a fantastic week. I am definitely about to ruin it. But wherever you are, whether you are at work, listening with your work bestie, I know a lot of you like to do that. Maybe you're at home cleaning, maybe you are rotting on your couch, which I love that for you, if that's what you're doing today. I hope you're having a good week. And it's been an active week in true crime. There has been a lot happening. There was a hearing earlier this week regarding the Lindsey Clancy case. There's that huge bust that happened in Florida where 281

• 3:26Annie Elise?

  people were arrested, a lot of Disney workers and Universal workers as well, which my favorite guy, Sheriff Grady, if you know, you know, I love him. He did a presser on it. There's been updates with the case we talked about last week, the CCTV footage that caught that guy basically like breaking into the woman's house, attempting to sexually assault her. She was fighting him on the driveway. The husband pulled up. Well, come to find out, apparently this weirdo freak was telling the truth, it looks like. And the husband did solicitate him. So, or solicitate solicit, solicit, well, I don't even, I can't even speak today. That is how much is happening and how much my mind cannot keep up with it. So, I, there's a lot more we need to talk about, too. Also, a case that is breaking

• 4:11Annie Elise?

  very local to us, that is beyond disturbing. So, you know, I needed to enlist some help in today's episode. I actually went back to like the Declaration of Independence to source today's guest, because I have none other than Teddy Roosevelt with me, who just told me she wears bifocals.

• 4:31Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 4:32Annie Elise?

  Is Teddy Roosevelt the one who invented bifocals?

• 4:34Speaker 02

  There are so many things that were offensive with that.

• 4:37Annie Elise?

  Why?

• 4:37Speaker 02

  Intro. Well, it aged me tremendously. And it's not bifocals. Basically, my prescriptions better, but they're different kinds of lenses that I'm getting used to.

• 4:47Annie Elise?

  Tell the people, they'll give you a hack.

• 4:48Speaker 02

  No, I know people don't want to hear all those details.

• 4:50Annie Elise?

  They do.

• 4:51Speaker 02

  But please do not ever welcome me with a historical figure so old ever again.

• 4:58Annie Elise?

  First of all, I like to be coming from the clubs, okay? I think Roosevelt, I could be mixing all of them up right now. Isn't he the one that had beautiful, long, luscious locks?

• 5:07Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't, for some reason, I don't think you knew any presidential trivia at all.

• 5:12Annie Elise?

  I've seen the movie National Treasure with Nicolas Cage, okay?

• 5:15Speaker 02

  I haven't.

• 5:16Annie Elise?

  No, but, okay, who is it that invented bifocals?

• 5:19Speaker 02

  I truly do not know that.

• 5:22Annie Elise?

  That's the only reason I brought Roosevelt into it.

• 5:24Speaker 02

  And the fact that you think I would know that is also offensive.

• 5:28Annie Elise?

  Invented bifocals?

• 5:31Speaker 02

  You go brunette, and all of a sudden...

• 5:33Annie Elise?

  In fairness, I was kind of close. Benjamin Franklin?

• 5:37Speaker 02

  Okay, I'm gonna ask a really stupid question. Was Benjamin Franklin a president? I don't think so.

• 5:43Annie Elise?

  Isn't he, he's on the...

• 5:44Speaker 02

  Wow, okay, this is not looking good for us.

• 5:47Annie Elise?

  I know, this is a really bad intro. Yeah, he's on the $100 bill, and only presidents are on, right?

• 5:53Annie Elise?

  He wasn't? Justice was...

• 5:55Speaker 02

  I don't think Benjamin Franklin, he was an inventor.

• 5:58Annie Elise?

  A founding father.

• 5:59Speaker 02

  What's the difference between a founding father and a president?

• 6:02Annie Elise?

  Same fucking difference. No, look, and look at his hair.

• 6:07Speaker 02

  Please put this on screen. And this is who Annie wants to compare me to, and said, "It's not offensive." Okay, can we move on? Because at this point, I would rather hear about the updates. The sixth president of the Supreme Executive Council of Pennsylvania, but never the president of the... President to me.

• 6:25Annie Elise?

  Okay.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  Nonetheless...

• 6:26Annie Elise?

  I need to go back to my history box. Whatever, welcome.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  Thank you. I'm glad to be here, I guess. I'm glad I made it here today and woke up another day. Thanks.

• 6:39Annie Elise?

  Oh, my God, I'm crying. Oh, my God. Woo, all right. I'll work on my intros, but I'm running out of them.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  Just call me Amy.

• 6:50Annie Elise?

  Okay. That's just not nearly as exciting. And I think, you know what, you guys tell me. I think the people have spoken. They anticipate what kind of wild and crazy intro they're gonna get.

• 7:01Speaker 02

  They just like a warm halur.

• 7:03Annie Elise?

  Halur.

• 7:04Speaker 02

  Halur.

• 7:04Annie Elise?

  Okay. Let's run it back. Okay. And today, joining me, Amy Collette. Halur.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Halur.

• 7:11Annie Elise?

  Look, you just are glowing now. You're so much happier. Okay, so we have a lot to talk about today.

• 7:16Speaker 02

  Great.

• 7:17Annie Elise?

  No, no, I know, I know.

• 7:19Speaker 02

  No, I know, we have some horrific shit to talk about.

• 7:21Annie Elise?

  I know. Let's start with the Lindsey Clancy hearing, because I know a lot of people are not only, of course, following that and looking for updates with that, but also, it caught a lot of people off guard with what Reddington said, how he acted in this hearing, what does that mean for next steps. So, we're just gonna kind of break it all down. So, earlier this week, there was a hearing where the defense's motion to dismiss the charges against Lindsey were basically being heard. Also, the opportunity to discuss the possible retrial date. However, the hearing itself didn't really get us any closer to knowing what the next steps are going to be in this process. So, let's talk about what we do know after this hearing. One of the biggest things that was discussed, like I

• 8:06Annie Elise?

  said, was the defense's motion to dismiss, which ultimately goes back to everything that happened during the jury deliberations in Lindsey's first trial. And Martin Weinberg actually argued this one, which he recently joined Lindsey's defense team to help them with all of the post-trial stuff and the retrial process. He previously worked with Karen Reed's team, doing the exact same thing, working through post-trial, trying to prevent a retrial from happening on the grounds of double jeopardy and things like that. So, Weinberg argued that the notes that the jury foreperson sent to Judge Sullivan about that lone holdout juror were basically, quote, "crying for help," and that it raised some serious concerns

• 8:48Annie Elise?

  about whether Lindsey was actually getting the fair jury trial that she was entitled to. And I think a lot of people, really, as they were watching the trial unfold and as deliberations were happening, had that same concern. Like, they're coming back time and time again. The judge keeps sending them back, saying, "Keep deliberating." They're like, "It's just one person, and we know they said that they're not applying the law," and all of these things. And so, it made a lot of people, I think, feel, or at least think, that maybe she wasn't getting a fair trial. So, they argued that those notes that were sent should have prompted a more thorough voir dire, which is basically when the judge questions jurors, usually one by one, usually anonymously, too. It's not really necessarily

• 9:29Annie Elise?

  always on public record, or even after the fact, where they basically question what's going on. So, Judge Sullivan pointed out that he did do a voir dire, which, if you follow the trial, you remember that. However, Weinberg said that he only asked one question, and that one question wasn't nearly enough to figure out what really was going on in that jury room, and to get down to the root of why there was this one lone holdout juror, and how they weren't applying the law, and all of these other things. And so, prosecutors disagreed to this, arguing that questioning the jurors any more than he did would have crossed a line into the deliberation process. However, then things took a little bit of a turn when Reddington took to the podium and started talking about the holdout juror.

• 10:14Annie Elise?

  And he more specifically used the juror's name in the courtroom, which, this juror is not anonymous. This juror has been named, has also spoken out publicly himself. However, it's something that, I don't want to say like etiquette-wise, you're not supposed to do, but it is something where you kind of question it. And I want to play this clip for you, because Judge Sullivan had a pretty big reaction to this. You don't bring your background into a jury room.

• 10:44Speaker 03

  And suppress it as was done in this case. This gentleman, Mr. Duransville. No, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stop you right there. No, you're not gonna stop me. Well, no, you, I am. No, you're not. Because, all right, then this hearing's, you know, because there's no need to bring out that juror's name. He's, it's all over the internet. That's through the internet. That's through other people. There's no need here in this courtroom to use that. Everyone else has referred to him either as juror dough. And if you want to refer to him, that's the way he's to be referred. That's all. He's got more face time than I do. Well, that's, you know, that's, but that's not through this, any of the rulings I made. And, and his attorney from Houston is sitting in the back row.

• 11:27Speaker 03

  Well, that's great too, but you know, just, let's, we, we don't need this, just. Okay, fine, and let me continue with what was not given to you at the time the jury form was submitted.

• 11:39Annie Elise?

  Now, after that, Reddington wasn't finished because he also brought up allegations that this same juror had been on his phone during deliberations. And according to Reddington, the juror admitted during different podcast interviews that he was on his phone using it to look up terms that he didn't fully understand, including the term "philicide", which many of you I'm sure are familiar with that term. Just in case you're not, it is basically another term for family annihilation and killing your entire family. But here's where it gets a bit murky because really jurors aren't supposed to be doing their own research during deliberations, especially not on their phones or their computers where on those devices they have access to social media, news reports, TikTok.

• 12:22Annie Elise?

  We know that this case was booming and you couldn't even open an app without seeing something about the Clancy trial. And the reason why is because they are supposed to make their decisions based on the evidence presented in court, not other opinions, not any sort of theories, not independent research, none of that. So you can understand why that's kind of a problem. Now, Judge Sullivan didn't make any rulings. He said that he would take the arguments under advisement and then they moved on to scheduling. So at the time of this recording and possibly when it's published, there hasn't been any ruling on it, but maybe there will be soon to come. However, that brings us to what happened next.

• 13:00Annie Elise?

  Because prosecutors said that they still haven't decided exactly what charges they're going to pursue if Lindsay goes back to trial. So Judge Sullivan asked the Commonwealth point blank whether they had made a decision. And the prosecutor confirmed that they were planning on a retrial as of right now. But they said that the specifics would depend on how the judge rules on the pending motions. And that I think is interesting because for a while we've all kind of tossed around the idea that maybe there will be a plea deal because of what the jurors did come back with in terms of being in favor of not guilty by reason of insanity. So that a straight guilty verdict on the heavier murder charges might not be likely.

• 13:42Annie Elise?

  Or maybe they would only pursue things and downgrade it to manslaughter or something like that. So the fact that they are saying that they plan to retry her, again, pending the decision. So maybe that, there is a room where they won't retry her and they will offer the plea deal. I do wonder what those charges would look like. I'm inclined to believe it's going to be on lesser charges because I think that's what they would feel confident with, that they could prove and get a guilty conviction of. But what do I know? So Reddington was clearly frustrated, wondering why they're allowed to wait so long to decide on the charges and saying that he needs to know and he needs to know now so that he can figure out what to prepare for. He also brought up what he called "the elephant in the room",

• 14:26Annie Elise?

  which is Judge Sullivan's upcoming retirement. Now, like we talked about a little while back in the last hearing, Judge Sullivan's mandatory retirement is coming up in June of 2027, which really is not that far away. That's what, seven, eight months away? And at the last hearing, Reddington said that he wouldn't be available for another trial until then. So a lot of people were thinking, including myself, that he was doing that as a way to be like, I'm not even going to be ready for a new trial until after June of 2027. So find a new judge because clearly Sullivan won't be able to be a participant in that trial. However, in this hearing this week, that whole idea and thought was proven completely wrong. I mean, either that or Reddington changed his mind completely

• 15:11Annie Elise?

  because he said that he actually does want Judge Sullivan to oversee Lindsay's next trial and that he would like the trial to happen in the spring of 2027, which is an even shorter window. Call it four months from now to when it would kick off maybe with jury selection. So he would need to know what those charges are in order to prepare adequately. And so Judge Sullivan said that he thought that a March trial date was realistic, but he gave both sides two weeks to check their schedules before making anything official. So as of right now, Lindsay's next status hearing is scheduled for November 16th. There's a chance that we could get a ruling on that motion to dismiss by then at the time of this recording. We have not yet.

• 15:53Annie Elise?

  But for now, we're still kind of just playing the waiting game and we'll have to see what happens over the next couple of weeks. Maybe there will be a plea deal, maybe it'll just be manslaughter charges. Maybe, I, I don't even know anymore. I really don't know.

• 16:06Speaker 02

  I was gonna ask you, so how involved are judges in a plea deal?

• 16:11Annie Elise?

  Not, not very involved, no.

• 16:13Speaker 02

  So would it, like, what, I guess, what would the effect be if it was gonna be a new judge? Like, what would be the reason you would either want or not want a new judge?

• 16:21Annie Elise?

  I think the reason that Reddington potentially wanted a new judge was because he wasn't liking Sullivan's rulings on a lot of things. And so he would want a new judge and hopefully like.

• 16:33Speaker 02

  But now all of a sudden, change of heart?

• 16:34Annie Elise?

  Saying that, oh, well, Sullivan knows the case better than anyone, this and that. And there's obviously some sort of strategy happening here. Every time I think I know what Reddington's about to do, he goes left. And so I don't even, I can't even guess anymore.

• 16:47Speaker 02

  I was curious like what the strategy might be. And now all of a sudden he's available. Is it because something changed in his other cases or no? Now he really wants Sullivan to be the judge?

• 16:56Annie Elise?

  You know what? It might be worth having Ciara join us again and talk to her. Cause she's been, she's been going to a lot of these hearings. She was there the whole trial too. And I know she has a lot of insight into the legal side of things. So maybe I'll tap her and just kind of get her way. And especially if the next hearing is scheduled for November 16th.

• 17:14Speaker 02

  In two weeks?

• 17:15Annie Elise?

  Yeah, what day of the week is that? Let's see, that is.

• 17:17Speaker 02

  It could Tuesday?

• 17:18Annie Elise?

  Yeah, it's a Monday. So maybe, yeah, and then, so maybe we'll do that. I'll tap into her so that that episode of headline highlights, we can get, give the full breakdown of everything, whatever it all means.

• 17:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, cause I feel like between this trial and then the Krista Pike, those two were just, everyone was talking about it. And then I haven't really heard much about either of those since.

• 17:37Annie Elise?

  Krista Pike trial.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  Or the, I'm sorry, the execution, yeah. Both of those, I think then it was like kind of at a standstill with both of those things.

• 17:44Annie Elise?

  I know.

• 17:45Speaker 02

  Okay, well, this next case is actually coming right out of our backyard in Anaheim, California.

• 17:50Annie Elise?

  Literally where we went to high school.

• 17:51Speaker 02

  I know.

• 17:52Annie Elise?

  Backyard, backyard.

• 17:53Speaker 02

  Literally our backyard.

• 17:54Annie Elise?

  Literally our backyard.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  I know, so close. Well, now there's a man facing murder charges after he allegedly came home from work early and caught his wife cheating on him. But it wasn't just a situation where he walked in, caught her cheating, and then there was some crazy like screaming match or something like you would expect. Because prosecutors actually said that he pulled out a knife and killed the other man while his two other young children were in the same room. So on Saturday, October 24th, 34-year-old Ismael Pineda Lopez came home early from his overnight shift and walked into the bedroom that he shared with his wife Wendy. And when he opened the door, he allegedly found Wendy in bed with another man, 28-year-old Nicholas Garcia, who was wearing nothing but his underwear.

• 18:41Speaker 02

  And apparently Ismael just completely freaked out because according to prosecutors, he pulled out a pocket knife and stabbed Nicholas multiple times, killing him just right there in the bedroom. Police were called to the home around 4:15 that morning. And when they arrived, they found Ismael covered in blood with Nicholas's body still inside the bedroom. Now Wendy and the kids were fortunately not physically hurt. But here's the part that makes this actually just so much worse. The kids were reportedly in bed with their mom and Nicholas when Ismael walked in. And according to the district attorney, they witnessed their father allegedly stab the man to death. So I mean, we're talking two toddlers, ages two and four.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  So I can't even imagine what they saw or even how, I mean, it's like the middle of the night. They're in bed with their mom.

• 19:30Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 19:31Speaker 02

  Awful. And what's interesting is that when reporters started talking to neighbors, they said Ismael was actually a really good guy. One neighbor specifically described him as a really nice guy, easygoing and a very involved father. She said he worked nights while Wendy worked during the day and he would take care of the kids and was always seen walking around the neighborhood with them. And that same neighbor actually said she had never seen Nicholas at the house before. And as of right now, it's unclear whether Ismael actually knew this man or if this was the first time that he had ever met, which I was curious to know that too. If this was like an ongoing thing or if they had known each other. So fast forward a few days after the stabbing and Wendy was stopped out shopping with her two kids.

• 20:14Speaker 02

  And a reporter approached them and asked them, of course, what happened? And she wasn't interested in talking about any of it. In fact, her brother was also approached and basically said that he didn't want to say anything about it and neither did his sister. Meanwhile, Ismael has been charged with one felony count of murder along with a felony weapon enhancement. And he's now facing a possible sentence of 26 years to life in prison. He waived an earlier opportunity to be arraigned. So now his next court appearance, which will include his arraignment and a bail review, is scheduled for December 1st. So I mean, I get it, walking into your bedroom. I can't even imagine that feeling of seeing your significant other like in bed with somebody with your two kids. So I could imagine seeing red and just the ultimate betrayal.

• 21:00Speaker 02

  But now it's like you're killing this man over this, your two young kids.

• 21:04Annie Elise?

  Had to witness it.

• 21:05Speaker 02

  Had to witness it. So I don't know about you, but I had a few thoughts.

• 21:09Annie Elise?

  I have a lot of thoughts.

• 21:10Speaker 02

  I mean, my first thought was like, okay, you're walking in in the middle of the night. Of course you're not expecting to see that. So at first thought, are you thinking it's an intruder or something? And then obviously you process the scene, he's in his underwear and. Obviously, it's a calm scene. So you're reaching for your pocket knife, which I was like, was that something, again, firstly in defense or out of rage?

• 21:34Annie Elise?

  Right.

• 21:35Speaker 02

  And yeah, you just see red. I mean, that I fear was like probably some sort of a break because it didn't seem planned, obviously.

• 21:42Annie Elise?

  Yeah, I which you mentioned this, I'd be curious to know how long was the affair going on? Did he know about it or have any suspicions? Like, did he come home early from his shift to catch them? Or was this completely just by chance? And yeah, he

• 21:58Speaker 02

  Were you just in shock?

• 21:59Annie Elise?

  It was the middle of the night. He thought it was an intruder or something. Or may not maybe not even thought it was an intruder, knew that it was somebody that his wife was having an affair with, saw red, not that that of course excuses it. My question, my bigger question and all of that is who in their right mind? First of all, don't ever have an affair and cheat. Like, just get a divorce. Like, I always say, don't murder, don't cheat. But I get it. It's going to happen. What mother in their right mind would cheat and allow your children, toddler aged children to be in the bed with you while this strange man is in the bed? I don't care if he's in his underwear and they're clothed and they're on the opposite side of you. This is a strange man.

• 22:40Speaker 02

  Well, that's was it a strange man?

• 22:42Annie Elise?

  Well, but like to the children, this is a strange man in your home, sharing a bed with your toddler children, two and four years old.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  A hundred percent.

• 22:50Annie Elise?

  Hard no.

• 22:51Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 22:51Annie Elise?

  Hard no, like, and like, again, I advise everybody, don't cheat, just leave, just like, figure out a different option. But it's going to happen. Obviously, it's going to happen. So it's how you handle it, how you react to it and all of the fallout. A lot of poor decision making happening, which doesn't justify murder. And it's not saying that, like, you know, but I don't like any of it.

• 23:13Speaker 02

  No, I mean, when I first came across this, I of course, thought the same thing as you is who on earth would ever have children in bed with you? And the person you're cheating, I mean,

• 23:22Annie Elise?

  And like comfortable enough that this man is just in his underwear in bed with you and your kids.

• 23:26Speaker 02

  It's 4:00 AM. Yeah, or whatever time it was. It's like crazy. But then even then it just got me thinking of the bigger picture of just, how could you ever just expose your children to an affair in general? Like, and just the it's just such a selfish, get a divorce, just get a divorce.

• 23:43Annie Elise?

  Well, and look, four years old, it's young, yes, but it's not extremely young. Think about Emmy, okay?

• 23:49Speaker 02

  That's who I thought about.

• 23:50Annie Elise?

  Emmy just turned five, my daughter. And if I ever had a man over, first, first of all,

• 23:56Speaker 02

  She would tell everybody.

• 23:57Annie Elise?

  No, I know. But like, that's what I mean. Like, of course, you would like be like, Daddy, like, when he's like, oh, how'd you sleep? She's like, good mommy's friend was here. Like, kids don't know to keep secrets like that, or they shouldn't know to keep secrets like that. And so it's like, four is young, yes, but not to where the truth isn't gonna come out. I don't know.

• 24:16Speaker 02

  When this man is comfortable sleeping in this woman's bed, the whole, yeah, I'm sure there's gonna be more information, but um, yeah, I

• 24:27Annie Elise?

  I I have so many questions. So yeah, let's follow this one because I want to know, like, how long was it going on? Did the husband know? Was he a family friend? What like, what is happening here?

• 24:38Speaker 02

  I know. And it, I mean, yeah, you don't know the story and you just hear this guy was, sounds like he was a good, dedicated father and a nice guy. And now these poor kids don't have a father who's gonna be around. And

• 24:53Speaker 02

  I mean, it was his decision to do that, her decision to do something awful also. And both people need to be more responsible.

• 25:00Annie Elise?

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• 25:41Annie Elise?

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• 26:22Annie Elise?

  that you know you can count on for any occasion. For me, it's like this nice little silk two piece jumpsuit. It's like a pant and a nice little like top blouse because I'm not really a dress person. And I feel like the best part is like, maybe give somebody else that feeling, having that staple to go to in their closet that is high quality, that looks great, that they can wear for any occasion. So this holiday season, I've not only found those pieces for myself in the past at Quince, but I am paying it forward and I am gifting the gift of Quince this season. Everything there is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories and they cut out the middleman. So you're giving luxury quality, but without that luxury price tag.

• 27:06Annie Elise?

  I've told you before too, if like, you want to maybe not branch out and do clothes because that's a little bit personal of a gift, their cashmere throw blanket, I'm telling you, you will be the favorite daughter in law, favorite son in law, favorite friend. It is the best gift you could give. Cashmere throw blanket. Mark my words. So go ahead, go check it all out at quince.com. Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks you where you heard about them, let them know that it was cerealistly that sent you. It is the best way to support the show.

• 27:49Annie Elise?

  It's officially holiday season, which also means it's hosting season, right? So it's time where you look around, you notice things if you're like me, where like, oh, that little area could use a little bit of a refresh. Or, ooh, I think I need a little bit more decorating over in this corner. And for all things hosting, Wayfair delivers high quality, customer trusted products for your home so that you can host and celebrate without having any of the stress. Wayfair helps you create a home that stands up to real life with thousands of products across every style and budget. Plus trusted reviews that make shopping just way easier. Think colorful serving bowls, flameless votive candles, a holiday embroidered cotton napkin set, just the little touches that make everything feel a bit more elevated and cozy.

• 28:35Annie Elise?

  For me, it's my turn to host this year. So I already knew, looking around, I'm like, okay, my dishes are not going to cut it, my napkins aren't going to cut it. So I was able to get actual holiday dishes at a great value. Cute embroidered napkins. I got an amazing new like wood cutting board that you can leave out on the counter that's decorative too. So many amazing things and the reviews really sold it for me. So when you're refreshing your home this holiday season, Wayfair delivers exactly what you need. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com. Wayfair, every style, every home. Well, speaking of marriages or fiancés and people doing,

• 29:19Annie Elise?

  you know, having very poor decision making skills, we do have a huge update in the case of Bella Torres. Now, we talked about this case a couple of weeks ago. Actually, it might have even just been last week. I can't remember. But just to refresh your memory, Bella is the Arizona mom who was attacked by a complete stranger inside her home while her two young children were also there. She fought the man all the way out of her house, back through the front door, onto the driveway. The huge altercation then was caught on a Nest camera. He was like fighting her, but kind of like slow motion almost in a weird way. And we, I have all the CCTV footage. It's, we will put it up in this episode too, but then it's been on social media. You can watch the video version, whatever.

• 30:01Annie Elise?

  So they're like fighting in the driveway, her partner pulls up kind of slow, parks the truck and chases the man off. Right away, a lot of people were saying, it looks suspicious that the, her partner drove up way too slow, that it seemed very convenient timing wise, that the chase after this perpetrator was very slow motion as well. And by the way, this guy, as he was fighting this woman off in the driveway, was saying like, no, your husband told me to, your husband told me to. I thought this was part of the plan, like, and I'm paraphrasing here. Which just to give you a little bit more detailed of a recap, this happened on October 16th. And like I said, Bella was home with her kids. Her fiance was actually out grocery shopping at the time.

• 30:45Annie Elise?

  And that's when this guy walked through the front door. He initially had asked to use her bathroom, but then he suddenly attacked her. He allegedly grabbed her by the neck, wrestled her to the ground, kicked her one year old, and then demanded that she take off her clothes. So that's when she fought him outside, when she started screaming for help. And that's when he allegedly told her that her fiance, or quote boyfriend, according to him, had sent him there after they connected through social media. And again, this was all caught on camera. And I'm actually going to play a clip for you now for all of my video viewers. And for all of my audio listeners, just bear with me, you can hear a little bit of it, but you'll probably want to tap over to YouTube to watch the video if you haven't seen it yet. So let me just play that here. It's a quick 30 seconds.

• 31:34Speaker 04

  What's wrong with you? Why is it saying?

• 31:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, right. Tell me your name is. Right, right. And what's his name?

• 31:46Speaker 04

  Tell me your name. And what's his name? I don't know. He's in my picture. What's his name? You know him? I'm already.

• 31:54Annie Elise?

  So, police identified the suspect as 20-year-old Adrian Iola. This is after one of his relatives actually recognized him in the footage that Bella had posted on social media. So, he was arrested within 24 hours. However, when he appeared in court, his attorney had claimed that the whole thing was a, quote, "giant misunderstanding", saying that Adrian believed that he was participating in a consensual role-play scenario that was arranged by Bella's fiance. Now, of course, the judge pointed out that even if her fiance had arranged it, that didn't mean that Bella had consented. This is something we talked a lot about, too, on the last episode, that this is a very real thing where people do actually role-play this.

• 32:35Annie Elise?

  They will post on social media and say, "I want you to come into my house, sexually assault me, no matter how much I say, 'Stop', or 'Don't', or I scream or cry, keep going." It's a fetish that people have, and that's why it's so important to create a safe word so that that doesn't happen. But on the opposite side of that, there are people who now weaponize these fetishes to set up their spouses or their partners and say that it is all for a consensual role-playing act, although it's unbeknownst to their partner, and then somebody comes in and actually attacks them. So, that's what Adrian was saying. He's like, "No, I thought this was consensual. She clearly didn't know that it was going on. Like, what's really happening here?" So, Adrian was eventually released on a $25,000 bond.

• 33:18Annie Elise?

  However, investigators seized all of his electronics. And this is where we said last time, we're like, "The proof will be in the devices. We will find out, one way or another, is his story true? Was he just on drugs or a mental health crisis? Like, what is really happening?" They also took Bella's fiance's phone to look into his potential alleged involvement, because remember, Adrian had implicated him in this attack. And look, when we talked about it last time, there were a lot of questions. Some people weren't sure if the fiance had anything to do with it. However, a lot of others 100% believe that he did. And now, here we are, a couple of weeks later, and we finally have some answers. Because Bella's fiance has now been arrested for allegedly orchestrating this entire thing.

• 34:03Annie Elise?

  And it gets even worse. I don't know if you know the detail. I'm about to get to it. Worse than just orchestrating it. So, back on October 29th, police arrested Bella's fiance, who was a 23-year-old man named Zarian, and he was at work when they arrested him. This came after investigators found Reddit messages on the electronics that they had seized, which the messages, they believe, show that Zarian planned for another man to sexually assault Bella without her knowledge or consent. In one of the messages, he allegedly told Adrian, the attacker, that he wanted someone to, quote, "force themselves on his fiance" before then asking, "Are you down?" And when Adrian asked whether Bella was in on the plan or not, Zarian's alleged response was, "Nope",

• 34:48Annie Elise?

  which, this is then where Adrian's behavior comes in. So, oh, you're colluding with this man to sexually assault his fiance, and you don't think it's role-playing? You, like, so even though his excuse is, "He told me I should, he told..." That doesn't matter. You point-blank asked him if she was consenting adult in this, and he said, "No", so it's an assault. Like, what are you even talking about? Then, the fiance also apparently told Adrian, "You can't tell her I told you or sent you. You just gotta do it, but I understand if it's too much." So, when Adrian asked whether or not they could get into trouble, Zarian told him that he could just run back to his car afterward, and they could pretend that the whole thing never happened. I mean, like, this is why I hate men. Like, this is why I hate men.

• 35:33Annie Elise?

  And here's where the conversation took an even darker turn, as if it's not like depths of hell darkness already. But at one point, Adrian actually did try to back out of this whole thing, telling Zarian that he wasn't comfortable going through with it if Bella wasn't into it. And instead of calling the entire thing off, Bella's fiance told him that the more he, quote, "threatened Bella", the more that she would get into it. So, then, all of a sudden, Adrian was suddenly okay with it again. Like, "Oh, okay. Well, she'll get into it eventually. Great. Let's do it." Like, why are men so fucking stupid, first of all? Like, and so sinister? And here's where it gets even worse, okay?

• 36:14Speaker 02

  I know.

• 36:15Annie Elise?

  Prosecutors say that the fiance even told Adrian to FaceTime him while he attacked Bella. Now, we know he went to the grocery store, or that was the story he told. So, can you imagine? He's like, in the produce aisle, and he's opening his phone, watching a FaceTime attack, a sexual assault of his fiance, watching it all go down? Like, and I get it, maybe this is his fetish, his perversion, and like voyeurism and things like that. You need another consulting third-party in this, like, consenting.

• 36:45Speaker 02

  While children are there also.

• 36:46Annie Elise?

  Right, exactly. You're right. Totally forgot about that. The children were present as well. And this creep kicked their one-year-old. What kind of man?

• 36:55Speaker 02

  No.

• 36:55Annie Elise?

  Thinks any of this is okay? That you set this up, that you do it while the kids are home, that you try to intimidate her and scare her into it, and maybe he, look, I'm not gonna give him the benefit of the doubt, because this guy does not deserve a speck of benefit of the doubt. But even in the off-chance that he thought, because maybe they've had rough sex in the past, or they've role-played in the past, that she would, as he put it, "get into it the more he threatened her", you've gotta think this through in a more sensible way.

• 37:24Speaker 02

  Well, what I was thinking is the ages are 20 and 23, which, to me, initially, I'm like, they're so young. Like, how do you have these fetishes and these things that you think are okay to do at such a young age? But it could be, you know, there's the whole topic of, like, desensitizing, right? From all the porn and stuff that's out there. So, it's like, are, were they just so?

• 37:44Annie Elise?

  Well, and so-

• 37:45Speaker 02

  Exposed this, and so that's why it's like, I wanna watch it, too, while it's happening. It's just like-

• 37:49Annie Elise?

  Yeah. But to kind of push back on that, and look, I'm not a doctor, obviously, but I, don't guides go through puberty so young? So, even though they are young with these fetishes, they've had, what, 10 years?

• 38:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:01Annie Elise?

  Of like, probably looking at porn, seeing weird-ass shit on the internet.

• 38:07Speaker 02

  10 years of watching porn and you're 20 years old?

• 38:10Annie Elise?

  I think, well, 23. I think guys start at like 13.

• 38:14Speaker 02

  I'm freaking out inside right now.

• 38:16Annie Elise?

  Isn't it like at adolescent, like adolescence?

• 38:18Speaker 02

  Probably. I just like to stay ignorant to that.

• 38:21Annie Elise?

  Secretly, like-

• 38:22Speaker 02

  Or naive. I don't know what the right word is.

• 38:23Annie Elise?

  Jerking in their bedrooms.

• 38:25Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 38:25Annie Elise?

  No, I'm, I'm just saying, like-

• 38:27Speaker 02

  But that just feels-

• 38:28Annie Elise?

  That's when they have their, like, this is gonna sound so old-school, maybe, but like, sexual awakening.

• 38:32Speaker 02

  I guess I just figured a fantasy like this would belong to an older creepy man.

• 38:36Annie Elise?

  In a basement.

• 38:37Speaker 02

  Not a 20-year-old who might be in college still.

• 38:40Annie Elise?

  Fair, fair. And, and there were so many points throughout this entire plan that was orchestrated that he could have gathered some sense and stopped it, or realized this is missing the mark. Either one of them could have. And like, yet, they can, they continued to move forward with it and, like, faced, wanted to FaceTime while he attacked her. It's disgusting. Now, as disturbing as all of those messages are, that's not all that the investigators found. Because remember, like I said, Zarian had told the police that he left the house to go get the groceries. However, when investigators pulled surveillance footage from the store, they saw him walk inside around 5:30 PM, spend about 10 minutes just wandering around, then he left without buying a single thing.

• 39:25Annie Elise?

  In fact, he didn't even look at anything at the store as if he was there to buy it. He literally just walked around the store for 10 minutes, obviously just trying to create an alibi, right? Which, that becomes especially interesting when you look at the timing of the Reddit messages. Because just after 5:00 PM, Zarian allegedly asked Adrian if he could get to the house faster, saying that he was going to, quote, "fake kill time" at the grocery store. Then, at 5:45 PM, surveillance footage showed Zarian paying for gas outside the store. And four minutes after that, he messaged Adrian saying, "I'm getting gas. Not far, but trying to take my time."

• 40:04Annie Elise?

  Like, giving this guy time, free range, to attack his fiance. And also, to the whole point of the children being there, you don't know this guy. He's a stranger you got off of Reddit. Who's to say he wasn't also going to attack the children? We know he kicked the one-year-old. So, who's to say this wasn't some sicko freak that you're inviting into your home?

• 40:26Speaker 02

  I mean, no.

• 40:27Annie Elise?

  That also does this to the kids? It, like, I don't even, like, I can't even compute in my brain how many things are wrong with this. It is diabolical. So, by 5:57 PM, just over 10 minutes later, Zarian allegedly messaged Adrian again, saying, "Time's up, bro", and told him to run away when Bella started getting upset. Then, at 6:04 PM, after he had run away from the house, Adrian reportedly sent Zarian a message, saying, "I'm so sorry", and Zarian replied, "I'm deleting this account, and you should, too", which, I'm sorry, digital trail, it will get you every single time. I don't care if you delete your account. It's recoverable. You're a fucking idiot.

• 41:07Annie Elise?

  I'm thankful for that, because here you are, caught now in one of the worst schemes that you can possibly even think up.

• 41:15Speaker 02

  I mean, you're not only a moron to think you're gonna delete these and they're gonna go, "Your alibis, you're going to the grocery store, but you don't even buy anything."

• 41:21Annie Elise?

  Right. You don't buy groceries. You're, "I just went to go look at the celery aisle."

• 41:24Speaker 02

  Like, why go through the trouble?

• 41:26Annie Elise?

  No, just say, I know, such an idiot. Now, when police gathered all of this and then confronted Zarian with all of this information, his response was saying that the messages were disgusting, and he continuously denied having anything to do with planning this attack. But investigators ultimately arrested him, and he's now facing charges of aggravated assault, sexual abuse, attempted sexual assault, kidnapping, and conspiracy. His bond was set at $500,000, which is not enough, in my opinion, because as we know, you only need to post 10%, which, although 50 grand is a lot of money, it's not unthinkable that he could potentially come up with that. And one more part, because it also does get a little bit crazy here.

• 42:09Annie Elise?

  Despite everything that the investigators say that they've uncovered, Bella is standing by her man.

• 42:15Speaker 02

  I honestly can't believe that.

• 42:16Annie Elise?

  Standing by her fiance. Just hours after his arrest was announced, she spoke with a local news station and said that she didn't believe that the detectives had enough evidence to connect him to the attack. So, at least for now, she's continuing to support him, even though the mountain of evidence is pretty clear about what he did. Allegedly, of course. I don't know if it's that she's just super in denial because she loved this man, thought she was going to marry him. I don't know if he's the father of her children. I've seen mixed reports on that, so I don't wanna, like, confirm anything. But if he is, I could see where maybe that also is, like, you can't wrap your mind around it, or-

• 42:53Speaker 02

  Are you gonna say what I was gonna say?

• 42:55Annie Elise?

  I might be. There are people who do believe maybe she did know about this, and that he's protecting her.

• 43:02Speaker 02

  So I wasn't thinking she knew about it because I feel like I can't imagine, I mean, I guess.

• 43:08Annie Elise?

  I don't think she would have fought him off into the streets if that were the case.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  No, but, but maybe they do have this like kinky relationship and this is they role play and do crazy things and maybe part of her not knowing was like, maybe he thought that would have turned her on. Like after a while, she would be into it. Um, so maybe she was like, this was a stupid idea idiot. Like, why'd you do this? But I also get it because we've done weird stuff like this in the past, but this went too far. But then also, so did Adrian not get in trouble?

• 43:37Annie Elise?

  Uh, he is out. What, where was it? He's out on, um, bond right now, I believe.

• 43:43Speaker 02

  Well, I know the fiance is out, but is the-

• 43:46Annie Elise?

  No, the fiance is not. He's being, his bond, or his bond was set at 500,000. And Adrian, where was it? Sorry, I told, yeah, he was released on a $25,000 bond.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  Oh, well, yeah, I guess the messages where he said, does she know about it? And he said, no, is obviously why he's in trouble. Cause I was like, could he get in trouble if that part didn't exist?

• 44:05Annie Elise?

  I feel like-

• 44:07Speaker 02

  But also, other people can't give consent.

• 44:09Annie Elise?

  No, you can't consent for somebody else. Like, and why is she standing by him?

• 44:15Speaker 02

  That, the only reason I could think of is-

• 44:19Annie Elise?

  Is if she's trying to justify it in her mind?

• 44:21Speaker 02

  If she not was in on the actual plan itself, but like something similar to where it's not shocking to her that he would plan this because-

• 44:29Annie Elise?

  Like she sees how he got there?

• 44:31Speaker 02

  Yes. Cause I mean, I think anyone else would be like, is that how your brain's operating? I'm glad that I didn't marry you. I'm getting as far away from you as possible and I don't want you around my children, our children, whatever the situation is.

• 44:44Annie Elise?

  Especially this creep ass kicked her one year old, even if she thought, I, even if she was trying to justify it in her mind, it's like, your child got injured in all of this. Like, you gotta get away from this guy. He is dangerous.

• 44:56Speaker 02

  Or you guys both need to keep your fantasies.

• 44:59Annie Elise?

  I know. I'm, I'm reluctant to say that she has any kind of kink like that. It would make this make more sense, but I don't know.

• 45:07Speaker 02

  I mean, she seemed from those videos-

• 45:10Annie Elise?

  Terrified.

• 45:11Speaker 02

  Terrified and genuinely fighting for her life.

• 45:14Annie Elise?

  Then why is she standing by him?

• 45:16Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 45:17Annie Elise?

  Maybe just denial and blind love and loyalty? I don't know.

• 45:21Speaker 02

  She's young too, so let's just hope that maybe-

• 45:24Annie Elise?

  Sense will come to her. If you're listening or watching this, please get away from this guy. He is very, very dangerous. So definitely will be following this case as it moves through the courts because there are obviously still a lot of questions about the messages, whose device all of the, everything was found on, how these two guys even met. But hopefully Bella and her children are getting the support they need after everything they've been through because that's also so terrifying for the children to witness. The whole thing is just bad. It's so bad and so scary.

• 45:53Speaker 02

  I know. Oh.

• 45:58Speaker 05

  Oh, look. You just got added to a meeting about coordinating another meeting to prepare for the pre-meeting ahead of the follow-up meeting, which will, of course, require a recap meeting. And then another meeting. Hit your booking point? Book with Southwest and enter airplane mode.

• 46:25Speaker 05

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• 46:49Speaker 06

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• 47:18Speaker 02

  Well, we have, this next one's actually coming out of Florida. We're back in Florida. We haven't been there in a while, but we're back.

• 47:24Annie Elise?

  But we're back with Sheriff Grady. I love him. Love him.

• 47:29Speaker 02

  Your guy.

• 47:29Annie Elise?

  My guy.

• 47:30Speaker 02

  So this next one comes out of Florida where the Polk County Sheriff's Office just finished a massive undercover operation targeting human trafficking and child predators, like Annie said earlier. And first of all, I gotta give the name of this, of Operation Credit because it's pretty funny. Poke around and find out, which is pretty clever. But as funny as that name is, what they uncovered during this seven day operation is just absolutely disgusting. So by the end of this seven day operation, 281 suspects were arrested, including 17 employees from Disney World and Universal Studios. And we're not just talking about the people who happened to work at these

• 48:10Speaker 02

  parks. A lot of these people actually had roles where they were around children every single day. According to Sheriff Grady Judd, 13 of those arrested were Disney employees and four worked for Universal Studios. Other people who were arrested included the head coach of a youth football team called the Davenport Titans, who coached children between the ages of 11 and 14, and also an active duty member of the Navy. But let's just go back to those Disney workers because one of them was someone Sheriff Judd talked a lot about during his press conference, and I genuinely don't even know what to say about this one. I'm sure you know.

• 48:48Annie Elise?

  Yep.

• 48:49Speaker 02

  24-year-old Colin Clacco, a former Disney employee who reportedly used to work as a Mickey Mouse character, was arrested after communicating with an undercover detective posing as the guardian of a 13-year-old boy. And according to investigators, Colin wanted to, quote, engage in sexual activity involving diapers, diaper changes, potty training, and even said that he wanted to do some of these things inside of a family public restroom.

• 49:18Annie Elise?

  Oh my God.

• 49:18Speaker 02

  And when he showed up to meet who he believed was this child's guardian, detectives actually found two backpacks that were full of diapers in his car, some of which, which were actually Disney branded with pictures of characters like Mickey Mouse on them. Here's the sheriff talking about Colin and saying he may be the sickest, nastiest person that he's ever arrested. Take a listen.

• 49:41Speaker 03

  And then there's Colin Clacco. Okay. I want you to get a, get a view of this Colin Clacco. He was a former Disney Mickey Mouse character. Okay. He had the high squeaky voice too, by the way. He did. And he's about this big. And he may be the sickest, nastiest person we've ever arrested. Yep. That, that's correct. He, uh, he was into diapers, you know, diapers.

• 50:16Speaker 03

  And he had two backpacks full of diapers. He wanted to wear diapers. He wanted to put diapers on the children. And he wanted to do all kinds of nasty stuff, none of which we can talk about. Two backpacks full. But he planned to have a great time, you see?

• 50:41Speaker 03

  He, uh, he said, I'm a little kinky and I'm a little naughty and we can be kinky and naughty together. Now, of course, we can't talk about all the stuff he did, but he was very explicit and with his perverted talk of what he wanted to do. Some of them were even Disney diapers. Like, you know, I guess he, you know, he, he was riding for the brand. But I want to point out that he was no longer employed at Disney when this happened. But he was very proud to tell us that he, at one time, was a Mickey Mouse character.

• 51:17Speaker 02

  And like you just heard, the sheriff specifically said he wanted to do all kinds of nasty stuff and even made a point of mentioning that Colin had a high squeaky voice, which considering he was at Disneyland and he was Mickey Mouse at a Disney park, I wonder, like, was this his actual voice? Was this his character that he put on? Was he trying to act as Mickey Mouse? Or I don't even know. But it just makes the whole thing even more disgusting. It actually reminded me of those like Mickey Mouse impersonators that you-

• 51:48Annie Elise?

  No, I was going to just do the voice, but like-

• 51:52Speaker 02

  You realize how creepy it was?

• 51:54Annie Elise?

  It's so creepy. It's like, I like can't even bring myself to do it because of what we're talking about. Like, hey, guys.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:00Annie Elise?

  Hey, hey, many like, it's so, that's pretty good. It's maybe I have a second career ahead of me. No, it's so freaking creepy. And the fact that he has this voice, he has the Disney branded diapers.

• 52:13Speaker 02

  I know.

• 52:14Annie Elise?

  It is sick, which I have a comment on that when you're done, but can please continue before I vomit.

• 52:20Speaker 02

  Okay. So Colin was ultimately charged with traveling to meet a minor, using a computer to solicit a guardian, using a two-way communication device to commit a felony, and attempted lewd and lascivious battery on a minor. And like I said, there were 17 Disney and Universal employees arrested during this operation, which is wild to think about. Cause I also, which I'm curious to hear your thoughts like on background checks and things like that, or if there's any like, how did that many employees?

• 52:48Annie Elise?

  Remember it was what, like six months ago, the Disney cruises?

• 52:52Speaker 02

  Okay, yes. So that's funny, because when I first saw this, I was like, didn't we already cover this? And then I'm like, this is another one.

• 52:58Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 52:59Speaker 02

  Which is

• 53:00Annie Elise?

  Yep.

• 53:01Speaker 02

  Crazy.

• 53:01Annie Elise?

  Think about it. Disney is like a playground for predators.

• 53:04Speaker 02

  I mean, yeah, now that you say that, it completely makes sense. Well, some of those other employees who are arrested reportedly worked in human resources, food services, different positions throughout the parks and at Disney resorts. And the sheriff did say that Disney is fully cooperating with investigators and told them that all the employees involved has since been fired. So

• 53:23Annie Elise?

  Great, bare minimum.

• 53:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 53:24Annie Elise?

  Cool.

• 53:25Speaker 02

  But yeah, just, I mean, think about that for a second. 17 people employed by two of the biggest destinations in the country. I mean, those are like hubs for people all over that travel there were arrested during the same operation all within a week. And to your point, in addition to this other massive investigation that was going on.

• 53:42Annie Elise?

  Yep.

• 53:43Speaker 02

  And thankfully, in these undercover cases, the children, these suspects thought they were meeting weren't real. So there weren't any real victims here. But the detectives are working to catch these individuals before they could potentially harm an actual child. Thank God. And it sounds like they caught a lot of predators.

• 54:00Annie Elise?

  I wonder what the stats are though, because it's like for this many predators that are caught, there still are so many who have not been caught. And the thing I wanted to go back to is regarding the diapers. I remember, gosh, when was it? A couple of years ago, I saw a lot of comments on some of my videos involving child assaults and people being like, isn't it more like toddler focused or like, uh, prepubescent kids and things like that, that these predators predators are after. And I remember from independent research, before I even got involved with CRC, that I learned that there is a whole

• 54:37Annie Elise?

  sect of predators who exchange CSAM material, who have fetishes, not only for children who are still in diapers, but for children who still have their umbilical cords attached. And it is so, I know, it is so incredibly disturbing when you hear about that. And like, the fact that this just once again illustrates how real that is, and that monsters have such a sick fetish with the most innocent form of a life that there is. I don't even know where you go from that.

• 55:16Speaker 02

  Well, and this is another 24 year old. So I'm just thinking like, most 24 year old boys I know run from diapers, you know, they're not like, I can't imagine, and I don't mean to make light of that. I mean, truly like the thought that that is a plan and they're employed somewhere. And I mean, this is all a lot of premeditated planning. It not only is disturbing, but it makes you sad because more and more things that we did as kids and that you didn't really think about as being scary are now like, as an aunt, as a parent, you're like, do I take my kids these places? And how paranoid do I need to be?

• 55:55Annie Elise?

  And look, not to fear monger, but I posted this on my Instagram account last week. For those of you who follow me, I try to post a lot of stats and different things like that. It's not just the physical threat, right? It's not that you could take them to Disneyland and maybe there's a pervert who walks up or takes a photo or this and that. The threat now is also AI. And it's, how long have, everybody always says, don't put your kids on the internet, especially in compromising positions, whether they're in a swimsuit, a dance recital, what like lifting their leg up, whatever it is. But also now there is this thing where in the Seventh Circuit, there was a case where someone

• 56:34Annie Elise?

  had artificial intelligence, CSAM material, and the possession charge was thrown out because it was, did not depict a real victim. And it was in the possession of his own home. And this is just for the Seventh Circuit. And like, it's not like it's this worldwide thing yet, but this is kind of the fight everybody is fighting against, especially CRC, is that, once you start normalizing CSAM material, or underage relationships, grooming predators, to where people be, people start to become desensitized to it, to where then it doesn't matter what age they are, they want the real thing. They want something more. So it's like, I don't know, I'm kind of going off on a tangent here. It just serves,

• 57:17Annie Elise?

  I think, as a reminder, that to your point, the innocent things we used to do as kids, you can't really do anymore, because now you have to be worried about, is somebody going to take a photo, use their likeness to generate a different child via AI and you, and create CSAM material and exchange, like you, you can't go to sleepovers anymore because you have these creeps who are putting, um, sedatives in the milkshakes that they're feeding to the girls, or you have the siblings who are preying on the underage people at the sleepover. You have sibling on sibling, friend on sibling, all of these different statistics. And

• 57:51Annie Elise?

  there's just so much darkness in the world right now, and so much perversion. And, but then it's like, it becomes desensitized and normalized. And we saw it kind of 10 years ago, when everybody wanted, all the 11 year olds and 12 year olds were trying to dress like Kylie Jenner and look older and do the big lips and all of these things. And it just, to where high schoolers don't even look like high schoolers anymore.

• 58:17Speaker 02

  It's crazy.

• 58:18Annie Elise?

  And it's just continuing to escalate more and more to where you don't even realize that people are becoming desensitized to it. And like, they almost excuse the behavior. She didn't look like she was in high school. That doesn't matter. You know what I mean? Like, it's just getting worse and worse and worse. And like, it terrifies me to think about where we are going to be in 10 years from now. And I think when I did that, um, statistic on the AI CSAM material, it was like in 2023, I think there were like 4,700 reports of that material being out there. And now hundreds of thousands. And it just shows you how quickly this is escalating.

• 58:54Speaker 02

  Social media has just like escalated things and made it so easy to get things and like make people able to hide behind the screens.

• 59:02Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 59:03Speaker 02

  But thank God for CRC. Thank God for these operations. I mean, your point is valid that if this many people were caught, can you imagine how many other people have gone? But it is a blessing that this many were caught. And like, hopefully, the software and tools and investigations only become more advanced. So these people, because that's another thing too, is how are you not afraid of getting caught? Like, even if you have these fantasies, how is that more powerful than the punishment you're going to have for that?

• 59:33Annie Elise?

  I don't know. I, I think it's probably like any other addiction. Imagine somebody who's addicted to drinking cigarettes, weed, whatever it is. It's like, if somebody who's smoked cigarettes for 20 years, if you told them you're going to get arrested tomorrow if you smoke, could they overcome that and resist it? I don't know.

• 59:49Speaker 02

  I know, but this is just way higher stakes. I just

• 59:53Annie Elise?

  But to them, maybe it's not because maybe the risk reward for them, they can't even

• 59:56Speaker 02

  Like you're hiring someone to physically attack your fiance in front of children.

• 1:00:00Annie Elise?

  Right.

• 1:00:01Speaker 02

  You're proposing as a character at a themed park with children and wanting to go into a bathroom with diapers. Like at one, at what point, how does that even happen?

• 1:00:12Annie Elise?

  I know, I know.

• 1:00:13Speaker 02

  I don't

• 1:00:13Annie Elise?

  That's what I mean. I'm scared for the future. And I, I know that's a little fear mongering, but it's true.

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:00:19Annie Elise?

  And maybe it's just because we're exposed to so much darkness on such a regular basis.

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  Oh, you should have seen me on Halloween when I was with Jay. I said to him so many times, well, I keep seeing costumes that say, oh, we'll never be wearing when she's older. Cause I'm thinking these girls, I mean, they're cute and no shame, wear what you want to wear. But also, there's a lot of dads out there taking their kids out. And I, I don't know.

• 1:00:39Annie Elise?

  And it's free reign for photos on Halloween because it's so packed on the streets that like, anybody could be taking photos of anyone. And it reminds me kind of that trend. I don't know if you've seen, it's been going around for years where it's like, me in high school, and it's like, full braces, the ugliest outfit ever. And it's like making up a dance with your friends. And it's like so awkward, but then it's like, high schoolers these days. And it's like, get ready with me, going to the, and it's like, it's such a stark difference. And I thought of that example because of what you just said about Halloween, because I immediately went to like, an outfit I wore in high school. And it was like this ugly alien looking outfit. It was like a space cadet. And it was like so ugly, but like covered my whole body. And me and all my friends were that. And it's like, the times have changed.

• 1:01:19Speaker 02

  Perfect. I'd love to see Emmy in that.

• 1:01:21Annie Elise?

  I'd say, same, same. She was Taylor Swift, but enchanted version with a ball gown, of course, obviously. Um, and Theo was a big inflatable Pokemon. So nobody saw him.

• 1:01:33Speaker 02

  Perfect. We don't even know who he is.

• 1:01:34Annie Elise?

  I know. All right. Well, that's it for this week, guys. Thank you so much for tuning in and sticking with us. We, um, as a reminder, you can help us fight the good fight with CRC. Merch is on sale for what? Another few days, right? Ends on Monday. And then, but a portion of merch goes to CRC and other charitable, uh, organizations we're a part of and different things. We, um, you know, have a lot of things that are really important to us. Higher Hope, which is Kendall Rae's that we donate to every year as well. She's doing great work. Chalk Hospital, lots of things. So you can feel good about the ads that you're listening to, the merch that you're buying, because it's going to a good place. So

• 1:02:16Speaker 02

  And, oh, we didn't even talk about it. Your husband ran

• 1:02:20Annie Elise?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:02:21Speaker 02

  on behalf of CRC, the New York Marathon over the weekend.

• 1:02:24Annie Elise?

  That's right. He went to New York. I wanted to go with him, but had the obligations to trick or treat with the kiddos. But yeah, he ran for CRC Child Rescue Coalition. I know I keep using the abbreviation, but it's the Child Rescue Coalition who helps save children from predators and online predators. And they have all sorts of advanced tech. I know I've talked about them with you before. But yeah, he ran, um, in honor of CRC and on behalf of them and raised a lot of money for them, which is fantastic.

• 1:02:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:51Annie Elise?

  So and he crushed it. Yeah. Three hours and 30 minutes. Crushed it. So shout out to you, Jeremiah. Um, so thank you guys so much for tuning in to another episode. We will be back with you very, very soon. As a reminder, two brand new case deep dives went out this week. One on this feed, on the serialist feed, and another on my second true crime podcast feed. 10 to life. Go follow if you're not already. And you can go listen to those. So until the next one, be nice. Don't kill people. Just get a divorce.

• 1:03:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:03:22Annie Elise?

  And stay away from kids.

• 1:03:24Speaker 02

  Yes, absolutely.

• 1:03:25Annie Elise?

  Bye.

• 1:03:37Speaker 06

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