163. Steve Chua: How Your Identity Is Either Healing Or Destroying Your Health

Most high performing executives will spend thousands optimizing their glucose levels, their sleep, and their body composition without ever stopping to ask why none of it makes them feel any better. The answer almost never lives in their labs and it almost never lives in their training program. It lives in the identity they built their entire career on top of, and the silent narrative driving every decision they make, that tells them their worth is only as good as their last result. In this episode of Extend, I sat down with Steve Chua to explore the real root cause of executive burnout and why fixing your physiology without addressing your identity is like putting the right fuel into the wrong engine. Walk away from this conversation with a completely different understanding of what is actually driving your performance, your exhaustion, and what it is going to take to finally lead from a place of genuine strength instead of fear. Steve Chua is an executive life and leadership coach with over 30 years of experience working with international leaders and organizations, and the founder of Steve Chua International and InsightOut, a coaching and consulting firm that empowers leaders to grow from the inside out. He operates from the conviction that healthy leaders create healthy companies, and his unique ability to help individuals resolve past conflicts, gain clarity in the present, and align their purpose and vision for the future, has made him one of the most sought after leadership coaches in the world. Check out Dr. Shah's Sleep Optimization Workbook here: https://www.drshah.com/sleep What's Discussed: (3:24) Steve's personal story of comparing himself to his brothers, failing out of Oxford, and standing on the ledge of a building at his lowest point. (5:57) The difference between living for value and living from value and why most executives are running on the wrong fuel. (7:46) The three levels of identity work that create lasting change: self awareness, self management, and self leadership. (11:34) Why picking up your phone first thing in the morning is the equivalent of eating a sugary breakfast for your brain. (21:06) Why high achieving executives become the bottleneck of their own companies and what that reveals about their identity. (37:49) The three things people lose when they burn out and why burnout is almost never just about working too hard. (44:10) Why your 40s and 50s are not a midlife crisis but a shift from success to significance. (51:30) The four life questions that when answered change everything about how you lead and how you live. Thank You to Our Sponsors: Momentous: Head to livemomentous.com/fiber http://livemomentous.com/fiber and use code DRSHAH for up to 35% off your first order. IM8: Try IM8 today with a 30-day money back guarantee. You can get 10% off your first order with code DRSHAH at im8health.com/discount/DRSHAH https://im8health.com/discount/DRSHAH. Learn more about Dr. Darshan Shah: Website: drshah.com https://www.drshah.com/ Clinic: next-health.com https://www.next-health.com/ Instagram: darshanshahmd https://www.instagram.com/darshanshahmd Learn more about Steve Chua: Website: stevechuaintl.com http://stevechuaintl.com InsightOut: insightoutcorp.com http://insightoutcorp.com Transformational Leadership Podcast: insightoutcorp.com/podcast https://www.insightoutcorp.com/podcast Instagram: @stevechuaintl/ https://www.instagram.com/stevechuaintl/ Facebook: steve.chua.net https://www.facebook.com/www.steve.chua.net

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Welcome to Extend with me, Dr. Darshan Shah, a podcast dedicated to cutting-edge science, research, tools, and protocols designed to help you extend your health span. Having become one of the youngest doctors in the country at the age of 21, and trained and board-certified at the Mayo Clinic, I've accumulated three decades of practice as a board-certified surgeon and longevity expert. Over that time, I've discovered that a mere 20% of health knowledge yields 80% of the results when it comes to your health span. We're living in a new era where we are creating a new healthcare system, no longer focused on disease management, but achieving optimal health and vitality. Join me as I interview world-renowned experts, offering you a step-by-step guide to proactively avoid disease, and most importantly, extend your health span.

• 0:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  There's a version of burnout that no biohack can fix. It's when your labs look fine, your sleep score is decent, and your routine is dialed in, but still something is fundamentally off. Today, I'm joined with executive coach Steve Chua. He's spent 30 years working with leaders across the world, and he finds over and over again the same thing underneath what's going on with these leaders' fatigue. It's the striving and the quiet sense of falling short. People who have built high-performing lives around their role and their results and expectations often suffer from a long-term fatigue and emotional exhaustion. Steve is a founder of Steve Chua International and the visionary beside Inside Out.

• 1:35Dr. Darshan Shah?

  It's a coaching and consulting firm dedicated to transforming leaders from the inside out. His work is built on one conviction: healthy leaders create healthy organizations. And what Steve has found over and over again in over decades of his research around leaders is that when the leader is healthy physically, mentally, and emotionally, it's inseparable from the organization's health as well. His framework centers around what he calls aligning with your design. This is the idea that every person has a core identity, a core set of values, wiring, and purpose that either gets expressed or suppressed. Depending on how they live. When it's suppressed, the body and mind pay the price. When it's expressed, everything from energy to relationship and performance shifts.

• 2:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  In today's conversation, we're going to explore what it actually means to know your design, how to recognize when you're living against it, and what the first steps back towards alignment looks like, and how that internal foundation connects to your health, you know, your spirit, your soul, and your body. Here's my conversation with Steve Chou.

• 2:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Stephen, I'm so glad to have you on the podcast. Thank you for joining me.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  It's such a joy to be with you. It's good to get to know you, Darshan, over the last couple of months.

• 2:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes, yes. And, you know, so I met you because you were doing a seminar for a big group of CEOs. And I really resonated with a lot of the topics that you talked about, because I feel like these are very common issues that are very seldom addressed. Specifically, you know, I also see a lot of executives as my clients.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And very much from a physical standpoint, right? We're talking about their metabolic health, their inflammation, their body composition. And I think executives and CEOs and people that are just grinding away, working really hard, they rarely talk about their mindset and how that factors into their physical health. And this is something that I struggled with. And I didn't even realize it was a problem until about 10 years ago, when I had to completely change my life. And during that time, I went through, you know, some level of identity crisis, massive amounts of burnout as well. And when you mentioned these words in this seminar that you did, I was like, I have to have him on the podcast.

• 3:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So before we get into all of that, I'd love to hear your background and kind of how you are in this world now.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  It's a funny story, because I think sometimes we, our destiny or our purpose, ends up actually coming from our past. And so, growing up as a kid in London, where I had two brilliant brothers, and we're both Asians, so we know academics is a huge thing. And both my brothers were like straight A students, Oxford, Cambridge. You know, my middle brother's like the preeminent expert of Beethoven in the world right now.

• 4:21Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wow.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  And so they were getting straight A's, but I was getting straight C's. So they were Asians and I was a C'sian, right?

• 4:30Speaker 01

  And and what I was doing was constantly comparing myself. And the more I did that, my mindset towards myself started to deteriorate. I had inner narratives, you're not good enough, no matter how hard you work, you'll never, you'll never make it. You know, you don't have what it takes. And and that was kind of reinforced by my culture a little bit. And so it actually culminated in a time where I just suddenly kind of said, I'm gonna forget my past, deny it. And I'm just gonna go for it. And I got myself into Oxford, okay? But what I didn't, what I didn't realize till later in life, I have a reading disability. Not dyslexia, it's what they call a visual tactile canesthetic learner. Sounds really intelligent, but it means I don't understand what I read. And so I was at Oxford, I failed my exams, I got kicked out.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  And it was like everything of value, worth and significance got pulled from me. And about six months later, I was standing on a ledge of my new dorms in my university. Cause I couldn't take it anymore and I was about to commit suicide.

• 5:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wow.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  And through a series of circumstances, my brother happened to walk in because he was kind of chaperoning me. And he pulled me off the ledge and I'm alive today, thanks to him.

• 5:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wow.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  But it was the beginning of a wake up because a lot of us work with narratives that drive us. One of my mentors, he, his name is Graham Cook, he said, every action is rooted in the thought that produced it. Okay, your starting point is your finishing point. It will either make you or break you, okay, advance you or retard you. And what I was having with all these narratives and that narrative was saying, you're not good enough, whatever. First, I tried to prove my value, okay? And when we start to talk about mindset and burnout, when you start trying to prove something, you start living for value. Rather than living from value. And when you are using external things to give you value, worth and significance, then all of a sudden you're striving. And you're looking for external validators.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  Does that make sense?

• 6:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  External things to make you look successful. So you then start creating an image. You start trying to make yourself bigger than you are or whatever it is. When the greatness inside you was always inside of you, but you just denied it. And so I think part of this journey, Dash, and for me, was the, the kind of irony of, of the universe is I got thrown into doing counseling.

• 6:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  And then I started realizing there's so many people and that's how I was counseling people, saying, this is me.

• 6:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  And so it's on a journey then that I had to, I realized if I was going to be authentic, I had to sort myself out. And then over the years, I began to come back to the issue of identity. I just saw so many people keep coming back for therapy. And actually their issue wasn't what they were presenting. The issue is how they saw themselves.

• 7:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  And if you don't change that first thought about how you see yourself, then it actually affects everything else. And so when we talk about burnout, you can go for so long and you've got these inner narratives driving you to prove yourself. You know, work harder, be bigger, be more successful. Okay. And in the process, it's all functional. It's all about your performance, but actually nobody's looking after your identity.

• 7:33Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  Okay. And so the external things, the external circumstances are dictating you rather than internal peace and joy in who you are going out. So just one quote I often use is if you know your value, you add value. If you don't know your value, you'll spend the rest of your life looking for it.

• 7:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm, now it's so true. You know, um, when you talk about identity, right? And this concept of an identity crisis, it almost seems like a moment in time when that happens. But from what you're saying, it, it sounds like a buildup of not living in your value.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I wish it was as easy as switch, making a switch.

• 8:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  A switch, right.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  It's not, it's actually, I, in, in my coaching, I, I actually talk about three levels. The first one is self-awareness.

• 8:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 8:17Speaker 01

  So most people don't take time to actually check in with themselves.

• 8:21Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  Okay, we were talking about a lot of your clients, they're just rushing and their lives are so busy. Okay, and they're just after the next KPI, the next, the next thing they have to do. But they're not taking time to look after their own personal health, whether it's physical, in this case, mental, emotional, spiritual. And, and I think when you are rushing, the first area of self-awareness is why, why do I keep sabotaging myself? You know, if you talk to a lot of the execs, they have hidden addictions. Okay, uh, when you, when you are so stressed, you have to find a way to find stress relief.

• 8:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Okay, and so your mindsets and what you're feeling about yourself, because you're not aware of them, they start sabotaging you.

• 9:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  But then, once you get into self-awareness, you can then begin to see, okay, that's what's happening. That's what triggers me.

• 9:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  Oh, I see the picture. Okay, I see my blind spots.

• 9:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  Then you go into self-management.

• 9:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Okay, and the self-awareness is a big buzzword right now, but a lot of people just keep it there.

• 9:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  It's then what do I do with it?

• 9:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So self-awareness, just to, just a highlight on that, to you, people can have better self-awareness if they take some time to check in with themselves in that moment, right?

• 9:29Speaker 01

  I, I always tell my clients three, four times a year.

• 9:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Three or four times a year?

• 9:33Speaker 01

  Just go on a day to yourself.

• 9:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  And reset.

• 9:36Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  Okay, and I usually give them a, a series of questions to ponder, to think through, so that they can say, am I aligned with who I am? Am I aligned with the way I want to live? Am I being the best version of myself?

• 9:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  Okay, and I'm, I might be the best for other people.

• 9:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, and then what about even on a daily basis? Should we be taking moments of self-awareness on a day-to-day basis?

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think, uh, I often say it's always important to check in with yourself. So for example, I try to walk 10,000 steps before I start work.

• 10:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  Okay, that's my time of solitude.

• 10:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I see.

• 10:09Speaker 01

  It's a time where I just get quiet, I get focused and let my thoughts kind of review certain things and preview where I want to go. And so, yes, I would say self-awareness is actually asking questions about why am I doing what I'm doing? And what's actually going on and what, what are, what are those next? Narratives that are driving me right now.

• 10:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, you know, and I just had another guest on the podcast. We talked about rarely do we find time to be in solitude and that's where like the default mode network of our brain has some time to activate. And you know, a lot of people, for the moment they wake up to the moment they go to bed, they're at someone else's disposal, right? And whether it be Zoom calls or whether it be, you know, meetings or phone calls, like we're always trying to fit in the most amount that we can in a unit time. And then the time that we do have free from those interactions, we get right on our phones and social media and try to catch up on social, catch up on our emails, catch up on

• 11:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  our text messages. And you spend your unwittingly now, you spend 14, 16 hours a day doing this.

• 11:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 11:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You rarely get time to activate that part of the brain. And for a lot of people, like, you know, it happens in the shower, right? Like, that's the only time that they have to themselves during the days in the shower. And that's when people have their greatest insights sometimes, right?

• 11:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, you hear that over and over again. I actually have worked with a number of my clients and I'll ask them the question, what was the first thing you do when you wake up? Okay. And I would say that probably 95% of the world's population picks up their phone.

• 11:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, because they sleep, use it as an alarm clock.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  Alarm clock. And then they say, what texts have come in, what emails have come in? And immediately, your device is now controlling your life.

• 11:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  And so what I've been working with them is you can use it as an alarm, but leave it as an alarm. Take the first 30 minutes, 45 minutes of the day to you. Go 15 minutes, whether you take a shower, do work out, do whatever, go into a quiet place and just breathe for a little bit, and just focus on, on what drives you. Okay. And then just begin to be, think, and just begin to envision the day. Okay. So that I often say it's how to learn to live above your circumstance, rather than live under your circumstance. And it's a discipline. But once you get there, it's actually, you suddenly become more productive. You then begin to realize what's important, what's not. Okay. And then you realize that probably about thirty, forty percent of stuff that's there isn't really there.

• 12:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  You know.

• 12:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So true. You know, I look at it very analogous to this whole concept of not picking up your phone the first thing in the morning.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 12:48Dr. Darshan Shah?

  It's very analogous with metabolic health, where if you eat a sugary breakfast first thing in the morning, it throws off your metabolic health for the rest of the day.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 12:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And I think the same occurs with this, with our devices, is it puts you in a heightened state of stress and awareness and loss of any type of connection with yourself from the beginning of the day, which then for the rest of the day, it's harder to get into that. It's harder to get into that mode, right?

• 13:15Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 13:15Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So giving yourself that fifteen to forty-five minutes at the beginning of the day when you're away from your phone, later in the day is easier to stay with lower stress levels, lower levels of anxiety, all of this.

• 13:29Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 13:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Because the first thing in the morning really sets off what happens the rest of the day.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, your starting point is your finishing point, right? And I think when you, when you start right, okay, and you start in charge of your day.

• 13:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  Okay. You know, when you think about it, when you pick up your phone, you know, work emails, that immediately starts the stress part. But if you go on social media, media is designed to startle you, right? It's, I mean, nobody wants to read boring feeds, right? So when you get on the news, everything's a little bit more extreme. And then it immediately, you are impacted emotionally. Okay, and you say, I can't believe that happened.

• 14:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 14:09Speaker 01

  I can't believe so and so said that. I can't believe this is happening in the world. And all of a sudden, it throws you off your balance.

• 14:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  Okay. And I think part of being able to do that, what this forty-five minutes is, is where you embrace yourself and love yourself.

• 14:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Okay. When I talk about identity, I talk about it being a perception of yourself. Okay, so Darshan is perception truth.

• 14:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh. Is perception true? No.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  No, right? Well, it might be, but here's the truth about perception. Your perception is truth to you.

• 14:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  So that perception filters everything.

• 14:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  So if you have other things governing how you filter and how then it judges you or crit or or talks about who you are, then all of a sudden you start living to that narrative.

• 14:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 14:55Speaker 01

  Okay, so if you're living to the narrative, I'm not good enough, or I'm failing in what I'm doing right now, immediately, you can imagine, you're stressed. The anxiety is there and now the decisions that you make are based on that. I have to do this, I have to do that. You know, whereas if you take a moment and regard and get back to your perception that actually I'm brilliant. I was created for greatness. I'm, I want to align with my design. I want to be able to, uh, I, I have curiosity and I have inventiveness, you know? My personal thing is I was created to give people value, worth and significance. And so when I begin to have that deep in my meditation or my solitude moments,

• 15:38Speaker 01

  it reminds me who I am rather than what I do. And when I get back to who I am, then I begin to add value to things. If it's what I do, then what I do is dictating who I am.

• 15:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, it's like your, your self-identity is what you set your perception of your self-identity to be. And if you don't allow yourself the time to do that frequently, you lose your self-identity because you just never even sit in it. So it's hard to know what it is. And then that perception of your self-identity guides your choices and decisions for the rest of the day.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  Uh huh. I, I mean, when I was comparing myself with my brilliant brothers, all I was feeling is your dad doesn't love you.

• 16:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  You're not good enough. Dad's proud of them, he's not proud of me. And those weren't true, but they become your false narrative that then becomes your perception.

• 16:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, that's so true.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  And then you live that. When I, I'll give you an example. When I got kicked out of Oxford, okay? Big trauma in my life.

• 16:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  I had to tell my dad. Okay, so that I get on the phone. Back then, we didn't have cell phones and everything. And he said, Steve, did you pass? And then I said, no, uh, dad, I didn't. And there was this silence on the phone and then he started to sob. On the other end, he was crying and, you know, an Asian family, you know, Asians don't cry. Asian men don't cry, all that sort of stuff. So my perception is I've let you down, I've let the whole family down. I'm no longer worthy to be part of this family. Okay. And that phone call is to separate me from my dad until I got my identity sorted out.

• 17:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  But I realized years later, I said to my dad, I said, Dad, do you remember that time, that phone call? And he goes, yeah. And he said, I, I cried because I felt your pain.

• 17:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, wow.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  And I went and I said, what? Okay. And my perception has sabotaged me from a relationship that was important for me.

• 17:26Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  And that's the power of our mindsets.

• 17:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 17:29Speaker 01

  That's the power of our belief systems. And if our belief systems are based on perceptions, which could be false narratives, then all of a sudden, we can't discover the joy of who we are. We're just trying to find who we are.

• 17:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, that's so true. You said now after self-identity, what's the next step?

• 17:47Speaker 01

  Self-management.

• 17:48Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  Okay, because now you see what's going on. Then what are the tools or what do I need to resolve to get there? Now, sometimes therapy is going to help you because for me, I had daddy issues. So I had to deal with some of those things, right? But once you deal with it, then you begin to, you know, you'll understand this, your body has memory.

• 18:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  Okay, and, and so you've been living a certain way for a very long time. So you're very used to the way you address certain situations. And I think freedom, when you're walking into your identity is suddenly you have this ability to choose where you're going, rather than being dictated to where you're going. And that self-management part is recognizing the triggers, bringing closure to the things that would destroy you. So for example, yesterday I was on a call with someone and, and they identified about eight or nine people in their lives who had traumatized them.

• 18:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, wow.

• 18:39Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 18:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  And I took them through an exercise where I just said, see those people? And we said, what does this person mean to you? What do you feel? And she said rage. She put rage, I said, put rage in a garbage bag right now. By the time we finished, all the different emotions, rage, jealousy, rejection, whatever, it was like a hundred garbage bags. And I said, now are you willing to let it go? Because those garbage bags are what you've been carrying.

• 19:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 19:02Speaker 01

  As much as you want them to carry it, you've been carrying it. It's only damaging you. And I said, are you willing just to let it go and forgive them? She did it and she just felt wow, I feel lighter. But that's part of self-management, that's dealing with your, your, your inner demons, dealing with those things that sabotage you, bringing closure to certain things and realizing, I don't want to carry that anymore.

• 19:24Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 19:25Speaker 01

  And then from self-management, you start trying to live out what I call walking the opposite of what you had.

• 19:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  Okay, so if you are, I'll give you an example, if you're afraid of, of, if you're afraid of something, the best thing is not to run from it, you know, the fight or flight, it's actually to face it.

• 19:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  Okay, so, you know, when I was seven, I got thrown off Olympic diving board when I wasn't, wasn't looking, I was just peering over and I was terrified and some bully pushed me over.

• 19:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh my goodness.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  And I went flying down, I thought I was gonna die.

• 19:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 19:54Speaker 01

  From that moment on, I never wanted to ju- jump into a swimming pool, I would always take the steps or whatever because I was traumatized by that memory. And so in a coaching session, I said, you know, if you make a decision out of fear, you give fear authority in your life.

• 20:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 20:07Speaker 01

  And so it becomes rampant. And I went, oh, that's interesting.

• 20:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Mm-hmm.

• 20:11Speaker 01

  I said, the only way to do it is to face it. And I suddenly went, and I just moved into this whole house I have in California, I have this pool, my kids keep bum jumping into it and I'm like, come on dad, come on dad. And I'm like, oh no, I can't do that. And I would just walk into the side. So that night, when nobody was looking, I just stood at this edge of the pool.

• 20:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  Sat by the edge and I just jumped in, no, just pushed myself in. And then I said, okay, now I'm gonna kneel down, I'm gonna push myself in, I was facing my fear.

• 20:35Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 20:36Speaker 01

  Today, okay, I don't, I never use the stairs going into the pool, I just jump in every time because it's overcoming the fear, you walk the opposite. So, a lot of the things that have sabotaged you, you realize it's actually just a fake lie that you believe.

• 20:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Mm-hmm.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  And it's actually just a, a smokescreen.

• 20:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 20:54Speaker 01

  And now you need to walk in the opposite of that. And you begin to manage, manage the stuff that you're dealing with.

• 21:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Let's take a quick break from this conversation. I want to talk to you about something that rarely gets airtime in the performance space, but you should know about it. About 95% of Americans aren't getting enough fiber and most of them have no idea. In fact, 70% think they're already hitting their daily target. Fiber is one of those things that get written off as basic, but the science tells a very different story. Gut health drives long-term performance and fiber is what makes gut health possible. It determines how well you absorb the nutrients from your food, how stable your energy is throughout the day, and how effectively your body controls inflammation and recovers from draining. If your gut isn't functioning at a high level, everything else that you're doing, the supplements, the workout, the sleep protocols, is working at a fraction of its potential.

• 21:48Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And that's why I'm using Momentous Fiber. It's a complete three-in-one formula with soluble fiber, insoluble fiber, and prebiotic resistance starch. Most fiber products only contain one type, which means they're only solving one part of the problem. This formula is designed to strengthen the gut, support digestion, and help stabilize blood sugar for steady, crash-free energy. Clean, minimal ingredients, no additives, and it's also independently NSF certified for sport. It comes unflavored or even in a cinnamon flavor that's really tasty and mixes easily into a shake or even just with water. Head over to livemomentous.com/fiber and use my code DRSHAW for up to 35% off your first order.

• 22:33Dr. Darshan Shah?

  The link is in the show notes.

• 22:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  What are some of the examples that your executive clients, I know you do a lot of coaching, that you can give us that's more practical, like in your day-to-day or running a business or running, you know, running a department or something?

• 22:49Speaker 01

  I mean, one of the most common things is that they, it's because they've driven themselves to success, it's hard to trust other people.

• 22:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 22:56Speaker 01

  Okay, so they become the bottleneck to a lot of the issues. Okay, and if they try to delegate, then then they try to... No, it's not doing the right, let me just do it for you, right? And, and what happens is they burn out.

• 23:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  The, the culture becomes very, very, uh, I don't want to say toxic, but dysfunctional.

• 23:15Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  Okay, so what are some of the things that I often will help them say, why are you doing that? And again, it's, it's because they've, their identity is so caught up in what they do, not who they am. So if somebody does something, that's not what the way they do it, they feel like it's gonna fail and it's gonna reflect on me.

• 23:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  And so that's an identity crisis. That's actually the soft image issue.

• 23:36Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  And so when, when, when, when I'm helping them, I'm beginning to help them understand who they are. Talk about, again, not the three levels. You have your public life, your private life and your secret life. Okay, so your public life is what you want people to see. So right now on this podcast, everybody's watching, this is our public life, okay? We want people to see the good side of us, the successful side of us, all that sort of stuff. And that's where a lot of people live.

• 24:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 24:03Speaker 01

  But then your private life is like, if you're married, your wife, your family, they see the side of you and they say, uh, dad, you're not the same person at home. Okay, or, or whatever. They see your weaknesses. That's right, okay. Ah, okay. And, and, and so that's private life is, is people begin to see a little bit more intimately into, into you.

• 24:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  Your, your secret life is where your hidden thoughts are. It's, am I succeeding? And I'm, uh, uh, am I really being a good, am I really a good husband? I feel so guilty that I'm not spending time with my kids and all these sorts of things that are going on. And what happens is when we have guilt or we have shame on the inside, it then begins to dictate how we present ourselves and try to overcompensate for a lot of things. And when it comes to something like what you're talking with executives, they're, I can't let go because if I let go, they'll see really my inner narrative that's I'm driven by the fear of failure. Okay, a lot of execs burn out. They're brilliant. They do really, really well, but they're driven by the wrong thing. So remember, every action is rooted in the thought that produced it.

• 25:11Speaker 01

  So if your action is really, I have to prove myself. I have to, I can't be seen to fail. Okay, it's like, it's like a slave driver inside of you.

• 25:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  And mentally and emotionally, after a while, this, you just run out because I can't do, I can't do another round of this. I can't get that. I've got no more to give. Okay. And, and I can't, but if I trust somebody with this, I, I, what if they mess it up? Okay, so we become our own worst enemy. Okay, so that, I don't know if that kind of answered your question a little bit.

• 25:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 25:40Speaker 01

  You know, and that would be one thing. And, and, and then a lot of my clients would just come in with secret addictions. Okay, why do I keep drinking too much? Why do I, you know, I, I, I'm doing this and I'm doing that. And sometimes it's what, it's also people gravitate to work. Because if things aren't good at home, you always gravitate to the thing that gives you value. Okay, and so you don't, you don't have to see the thing that's, that's challenging.

• 26:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  Okay, and so those are some of the things that we work out. But when you discover the joy of who you are, then you see things from a very, very different perspective. And your family life changes. You find balance. You begin to, like I said, live above your circumstance. So that self-management section then moves to self-leadership.

• 26:24Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, okay.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  Because, yeah, because when you then start living the way you want to live, out of your values, out of the, the talents and the gifts that, that, that you were innately given. When you begin to be the best version of yourself in the secret life, then in the private life, and it shows out in the public life, that's when you are fully aligned.

• 26:46Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, so that was my next question for you. Like, shouldn't these levels be aligned with each other?

• 26:50Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 26:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So you don't have a secret life that's very different than your public life, or even your private life.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And, and the thing is, most people don't, I would say that ninety-nine percent of the people that I know, they need a chiropractic adjustment, an inner chiropractic adjustment. And they're not that far off because they think that if I, if I stop working, then I, or I stop doing this, then I'm gonna fail. It's, that's not, not true, because your brilliance has actually made you not fail.

• 27:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  Okay, but you're using your shame to drive you. So imagine you have a Lamborghini and you put crude oil in the engine. After a while, this beautiful Lamborghini is gonna stall.

• 27:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 27:28Speaker 01

  But if you didn't realize, you didn't, you know, you, you, you put in the right fuel, it's gonna go like crazy.

• 27:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 27:35Speaker 01

  And it's just about adjustments, putting the right fuel in, but the right mindsets, the right beliefs, the, the way you see yourself.

• 27:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  Okay. And I often say the way you see yourself is the way you treat yourself.

• 27:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  And so, and you'll understand that also with some of the work that you're doing. Why is it that people don't look after their bodies?

• 27:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  And a lot of the time, it's because they don't see themselves in the right way, because they don't wanna take that step to look after themselves.

• 27:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. Yeah, I, I do feel that, um, people don't look after themselves because they do have a lot of guilt around their business, their families. And so it's almost like, it's a last priority, but it's a last priority because they feel like they shouldn't be taking care of themselves because they're failing maybe at their family life or their business. And it's a perceived failure. It's not a failure. They're obviously doing better than most people, but there's always something that's gonna make you feel like you're not doing as well as you thought you were gonna be doing.

• 28:27Speaker 01

  And that's, that's the inner narratives, right?

• 28:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 28:29Speaker 01

  Those are the, the demons of, that start saying, "Should work harder."

• 28:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 28:34Speaker 01

  You know, "Look at so and so, they're doing so much better." You know, and, and then the jealousy starts coming in or the comparison thing. I mean, I often say that comparison is the greatest enemy to your identity.

• 28:44Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's so true.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  Because you're trying to be something, they're trying to make you something that you're not.

• 28:48Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 28:49Speaker 01

  Rather than embracing who you are.

• 28:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 28:51Speaker 01

  And seeing, seeing the innate brilliance inside of you. Okay? And so I think when we begin to look in this, this area of self-leadership, for example, you start living the way you want to live.

• 29:05Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  You know, I was, I was on a call yesterday with a, a group of people who are a kinda sales force of some group. And I just said, "Okay, how many of you have had a good leader?"

• 29:15Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 29:16Speaker 01

  And they would say, hmm, there were a few, a few of them and said, "How many of you had a toxic leader?" All these heads would go up. And I said, "For a moment, I want you to get a whiteboard, write the word leader in front of you."

• 29:26Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  And then imagine, who, what would be the ideal leader that you would like? What would you like to see? What are the qualities of the ideal leader? Okay? And so they started, would be writing their, their, their little notes, you know, confident, secure, empowering, you know, envisioning, you know, all these brilliant words. And then I said, "Okay." So that's who you are.

• 29:48Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  And they go, oh, because you already know what makes a great leader.

• 29:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 29:55Speaker 01

  And if you live that way, how would you feel? And then they will went, well, I would feel so good about myself. Absolutely.

• 30:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 30:02Speaker 01

  So it's just sometimes just a little bit of a chiropractic shift in your mindset.

• 30:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  Can begin to set you on the right path.

• 30:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, yeah, the mindset around around your self identity is so critical. And giving yourself that shift, like you're saying from the very beginning, like if you're thinking of yourself as a failure the entire time is going to drive you to make decisions in one path that was almost deadly for you.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:26Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And if you had a different kind of self identity, you would obviously be making different perceptions and different choices.

• 30:33Speaker 01

  And even after that real traumatic moment, it didn't mean that my mindset had changed. I got rescued in that moment.

• 30:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 30:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  And I had to, and I was able to get a lot of stuff of that I've been kept kept inside out. But I still had that this fundamental underlying feeling that, am I good enough? Will I succeed? And so that proving thing was still in my early professional career. Okay, and when you're trying to prove you're always striving. Okay, because you're trying to survive. All right. And what happens is you begin to look for things that will feed you. That's where your ego comes in. Okay, well, that's where pride comes in because I built it, I made it, whatever. But if for whatever, they always seem to get pulled apart, it's like that castle cards, boom.

• 31:22Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  And it wasn't until I realized that, first of all, I was loved and I needed to be loved. Okay, I'm very spiritual, so faith is important. So that encounter of love changed my perception of me that if I if I'm that loved, then why am I so desperately looking for love?

• 31:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  And then I began to realize this, not because people aren't loving me. It's because I don't love myself.

• 31:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh, yeah.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  And that moment of that light bulb moment just started changing things. And actually, I say I had daddy issues. My dad had a kitten run car accident.

• 31:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  And he went into ER and just intensive care and all sorts of stuff that was going on. And, and that was the wake up call. It's like if, if he died and I wasn't in that place. And, and the funny thing was he came out of the hospital and while he was in intensive care, he wrote a poem.

• 32:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, wow.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  About his sons, because you have near death experiences. You know, things that are most important come to you. And he started writing about his three sons. I'm the youngest of three.

• 32:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's awesome.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  And he just basically said, you know, here's Andrew, my oldest brother, the one who always gives so generous. My middle brother, who's always never left my side. And then he said, Steve, the son of my gifting.

• 32:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh.

• 32:38Speaker 01

  The son, it was almost like you're my legacy.

• 32:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, wow.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  And I'm thinking, what? I'm not your legacy. I, I, I failed and all these things. And I suddenly realized he always loved me.

• 32:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 32:48Speaker 01

  But I couldn't see it.

• 32:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 32:50Speaker 01

  And that was the, that was the beginning of the shift. And all of a sudden, I didn't, all my failures, all my mistakes, nothing proved to him that would, that I thought it could be love, be make me lovable. Actually, that didn't matter.

• 33:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 33:04Speaker 01

  And so that was the, that, that, that moment shifted a lot of stuff for me. And got, was reinforcing that journey. And I started to deal with my demons, my self-awareness. Started have, made myself accountable for a number of things. Walked with the, walked with my own mentors and so forth, who really helped me see myself, you know? And, and, and now I get to lead it. And I, and I'm, I'm just living out my story.

• 33:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  And helping other people do that.

• 33:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I love that. I'm, you know, I'm coming from an Asian family myself. There's a little bit of this kind of cultural dystopia now that I live in versus how I was raised, right? Because

• 33:40Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 33:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Just like you, I was raised with a lot of pushing in the academics, right? We were very, very much pushed. And I think all of that came from love, not from whether or not they would love you if you did well or not.

• 33:56Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 33:56Dr. Darshan Shah?

  It was that they wanted us to do well, so they pushed us to do well, so we can have a better life, right?

• 34:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  But then that was not accompanied with words or actions of affirmation at all.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  No.

• 34:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right? So you you grow up thinking that the only thing that matters is whether or not you do well in academics. And if you don't do well in academics, then you're not worthy of even being in the family.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Well, you you know what it's like in Asian. It's like therefore often the form of encouragement is criticism.

• 34:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, exactly. That's so true.

• 34:25Speaker 01

  You know, um, my mom, she she killed straight A's at high school and she got one B and her dad beat her.

• 34:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 34:31Speaker 01

  Okay, and and it was like, why aren't you doing that? And it's not that she he didn't love her.

• 34:36Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Mm hmm.

• 34:36Speaker 01

  But he thought he could make her better. Okay. And we often live vicariously through our kids. You know, you know what I mean? We don't want to make mistakes we had. We want to have a better opportunity than we had on all these sorts of things. And and I think part of it is when we are driven that way, we then create these mindsets that the only way I have value is if I perform.

• 34:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes, that's exactly the perception that is there.

• 35:01Speaker 01

  Rather than I have value and because I have value, I will perform.

• 35:05Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 35:06Speaker 01

  Okay, and so you're you're no longer trying to prove you're just being, you know, and it and can I tell you, when you get to that stage, it's so freeing.

• 35:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 35:17Speaker 01

  You feel kind of like I can I can climb my efforts. I can do whatever because I have the the joy of knowing that I can add value wherever I go, you know, and that's a beautiful feeling.

• 35:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, so true. I think as parents too, you know, for younger children, even older children, showing them that they have value despite whatever they achieve academically, right? I mean, I think they need to be. Two parallel paths, showing value, showing love and academic pushing. As a parent, I think those two things can live together. They don't have, they shouldn't be exclusive from each other because and that's the perception that is created in the children's mind.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and I think as I was on my journey, okay, I have five kids.

• 36:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You have five kids, amazing.

• 36:02Speaker 01

  And I have this beautiful wife Barbara, who's been the most amazing mom who's in, is in the studio right now. And, but I think on this identity journey, I think for maybe the first two of my kids, I was a little bit more like the Asian dad pushing them and, and not realizing I was living vicariously through them. I, I, I don't want them to feel the shame I'm feeling, not that I would tell them that. So, you know, I was good at sports and so I wanted to drill them in sports and, and after a while I was putting, I was maybe putting some unnecessary pressure on them. They ended up getting scholarships and stuff, which was great, but it, but it was because they started enjoying it rather than enduring it or being pushed to it. They pushed themselves in a good way. And then with the other kids, we began to realize, let's speak into their identity.

• 36:47Speaker 01

  Let's, uh, when I do that, I, it's not like, we often like to compliment what they do. Okay, but it's actually compliment who they are. So in other words, it's not well done for doing this, well done because the way you did this and the quality of leadership that you brought in or the way, the creativity that was there.

• 37:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 37:07Speaker 01

  The kindness that you expressed. We're starting now, we're talking about the quality of the person, not about the quality of their work.

• 37:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes, not the outcome is how they achieve the outcome that you compliment.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  I was just, just, uh, this last weekend, I was dealing, one of my clients ran a billion, three, five, four, five billion dollar company. And he has now stepped down as the CEO and I said, so just tell me who you are. And he said, well, I've done this, I've done this, I've done this. And he kind of gave me his resume. I said, no, no, no, that's your reputation. Tell me the person. Who built that? Who are you? And he goes, I don't know. I've never thought about that. I said, well, you're a strategic thinker. You're a problem solver. Okay, you have a, you have a sharp mind. You like to make complicated things simple. All these sorts of things. And his eyes was lighting up. He said, how did you know all of that about me? So, well, that's what I do. Okay. But I said, I want you to write an elevator pitch, not on what you've done,

• 38:03Speaker 01

  but on who you are.

• 38:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 38:05Speaker 01

  Okay. And all of a sudden, he started getting excited because he started seeing all these different qualities in all these different things. And I, and he said, see, that's your value. You add value and you have to align with, you have to embrace it and actually give yourself permission to get there.

• 38:21Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, love that.

• 38:26Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hi, Dr. Shaw here. I want to take a minute to talk to you about cellular health. So in my clinics, I've actually seen thirty year old people with cells that look like they're pushing retirement. And I've also seen sixty year olds with cells that look like they're forty years old. So what's the difference? It's really about how fast their telomeres are breaking down. Your cells, you see, are like phones and they have limited cellphone battery. Poor sleep, stress, processed foods, all of these things can drain that battery way faster than it should. So this is the reason why I partnered with IMA. IMA powers that cellular battery. It's not just another multivitamin. It's a comprehensive ninety-two ingredient formula designed specifically for cellular health and longevity.

• 39:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I'm talking nine hundred milligrams of vitamin C. That's like twenty oranges worth of DNA protection. The clinical dose of CoQ10 that you need to power your cellular engine. You also get zinc, selenium, vitamin E, alpha lipoic acid. All of these work synergistically for cellular repair and protecting your telomeres. So instead of taking a handful of pills every day and all these supplements, IMA actually gives you everything that you need in one scientifically formulated system. And this isn't just a theory anymore. IMA had partnered with Oxford University, the International Space Station, San Francisco Research Institute, and they've done studies and they've gotten this NSF Certified to truly power your health. Most people are aging twice as fast as they should, unfortunately.

• 39:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You don't have to be one of them. Try I M eight. I actually have a discount secured for you if you go to Dr. Shaw dot com slash I M eight. Or go to I M eight health dot com slash discount slash Dr. Shaw and you can get 20% off with my discount code. Dr. Shaw, you can also find the link below.

• 40:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I want to talk about burnout. You know, like I told you, I experienced what I term burnout about 10 years ago.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:24Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And I think that, you know, many people are living in a state of burnout right now. Whether you're an executive, whether you're just living.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 40:33Dr. Darshan Shah?

  In your job, it just seems like there's more and more burnout everywhere I look. And this is a massive consequence to your health. Like, these are definitely tied together. Your physiological health and the state of this mental state called burnout.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:46Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So why do you think so many people are burnt out now?

• 40:49Speaker 01

  I think because they have lost that, I would say three areas. One, they've lost their sense that they can choose.

• 40:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  True.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  Okay. Secondly, they've lost a sense of feeling that there's often a feeling of being alone. So they don't have people to support them. And thirdly, they've lost a sense of growth.

• 41:12Speaker 01

  And so when we burn out, it's like we're on that hamster wheel that we go round and round and round. And we just feel we can't get off it.

• 41:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 41:18Speaker 01

  Does that make sense?

• 41:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 41:20Speaker 01

  And when I go by choice, it's like when we start feeling controlled or trapped. And we can't get out of our circumstance. Okay, or as a leader, people expect me to be this, to live this way, and I can't let them down. Okay, we then put what I call expectations or pressure on ourselves. And that's what we have to live up to. Now you're, now you're putting even more emotional, mental energy into trying to meet those expectations.

• 41:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  But you don't realize that those expectations actually. Causing you to silo yourself. And in that being siloed, that's why I'm saying it's it's it's almost so much more fun to do with people. Okay, but often leadership is a lonely place.

• 42:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  It does, yeah.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  I mean, you know, if a lot of CEOs, they say, well, if I share really what's going on, they're gonna it's gonna cause all sorts of issues. I said, that's why you should really have coaches. Or have somebody that you can talk to. But in that process, the burnout starts happening when you feel that it's almost like I can't stop. And that's one of the things that some of my clients, it's one of the hardest things. There's one client, I I keep telling them, you you need a vacation. Okay, I I can't I can't take a vacation unless I so I forced them to take a vacation. And then and then she canceled.

• 42:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, no.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  I can't, there's too many things at work. But then two, three, I I'm and I it's like my coaching then becomes like a pep talk just to keep it going rather. But if she would take that moment to stop, reset, uh, the burnout, we could start dealing with the burnout. But then your mental mindsets also, this is identity that if I if I don't achieve, I'm gonna let everything down. I'm gonna fail everybody.

• 43:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  And so that greater sense of weight or burden, okay, and that's the thing that drives you.

• 43:13Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, so there's three things you said that there was.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, so the first one was choice.

• 43:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Choice.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  So you want to have the freedom to know that you can choose and not be dictated by your circumstances. Two, the community.

• 43:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, so not feeling feeling alone.

• 43:27Speaker 01

  Feeling alone, having connection. The third one is growth is is what I saw competency growth.

• 43:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Growth, okay, that was the last one, right?

• 43:33Speaker 01

  If you if you're doing a job and you're not growing. After a while, you're just maintaining what you're doing. It's the hamster wheel. You're just maintaining it. Maintenance always leads to mediocrity.

• 43:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 43:43Speaker 01

  Okay, and after a while, you feel mediocre. Motivation happens when we have a sense of excitement that we're growing, growing, that we've got learning new skills, we're developing new character, we're becoming more resilient. All these sorts of things, our mindset is based upon growth. And if we stop seeing things as targets and goals, but we see life as a growth curve, okay, then you're going to hit all your targets anyway. That's why I encourage all my clients, don't, don't think about becoming a better CEO. Think about growing as a person.

• 44:17Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 44:18Speaker 01

  Okay. And if you are in a situation where you feel you're growing, you will be energized. If you feel that you're in a community of people who are there supporting you and you can trust them, you're energized. If you feel that you can actually take a vacation and everything's going to be okay, because I've learned how to build the right team, everything gets energized. Okay.

• 44:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I think, you know, I'm looking back at my situation 10 years ago, and I can see why I was burnt out by your definition of it because I was spending 12 hours in the operating room, five or six days a week. Okay, so, and I was, I've been doing this for 20 years now. So there was very little growth because I'd done the same procedures over and over and over again for 10 years now.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Secondly, it's lonely being the operating room because you're there, operating on someone by yourself, no one's really talking. There's a little bit of conversation, but you're focused and you're,

• 45:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  you know, the anesthesiologist is doing his thing and I'm doing my thing and I do that 12, 14 hours a day.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And I didn't feel like I had a choice either because I had surgeries scheduled for six months out and no way of getting off this hamster wheel of going to the operating room every day. Then, you know, you see these patients that you do surgery on after surgery and it's like you've built up volume over decades now.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 45:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That you're like kind of stuck in this routine of your job, which is very intense and isolating and there's no end in sight and same thing over and over again.

• 45:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I mention all of this because I feel like there's probably a lot of people out there that are in a very similar situation when they hit 40s or 50s in their career. Right? And I found my way out. Thank God, thank God I did. But like, what would you, what kind of advice would you give to me at that point 10 years ago? If I had come to you as a coach and said, look, I'm not growing at all. I'm just here doing the same thing every day. I'm stuck in this hamster wheel. There's no way out. How would you advise me to find a new path?

• 46:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, great question. I mean, part of this is you need to take charge of your life again.

• 46:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  Okay. And you, but you need to understand all the, all the things that pulling you from doing that. Okay. It's, it takes courage. All right. But also you talk about 50s. A lot of my people, clients come when they're in their 40s or 50s.

• 46:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's the time, right?

• 46:43Speaker 01

  We call it the midlife crisis, some people. But it's really a shift between moving from success to significance.

• 46:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Okay. I've been successful, but I'm burnt out, but my life must mean more than this. It's moving from a sense of accomplishment to purpose. All right. And I mean, when I, when I, when I've been kind of researching you and also I could see you're driven by a purpose to find longevity for people, to give people better lives. What an incredible purpose in that, right?

• 47:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Thank you.

• 47:11Speaker 01

  But when you're in that burnout, sometimes you need to be willing to listen to people to tell you to stop. But also, this is going back to, do you love yourself enough to stop to realize if you don't stop, everything that you've built is gonna explode. Okay. And there was a great book called Halftime. I don't know if you're familiar with it, but I often will say, you know.

• 47:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Great book.

• 47:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. The greatest moment in a sports game, I will say, what, you know, if you're, if you're football, if you like football, soccer or whatever, what's the most important time? Everybody says, oh, maybe the, the end or the beginning. I said, no, no, it's actually the halftime break. Because that's when you assess what happened in the first half. And then you can begin to say, okay, that was good. Cause remember, not everything is bad. Because you're burnt out doesn't mean everything was bad. In fact, there's a lot of success. In fact, it's your success that burnt you out. Okay. And so there's a lot of things that you can identify, which you can bring into the second half, but there are certain situations, choices, or the way you've positioned yourself in certain places. Let's relook at that and refocus. There are certain people in your life that are maybe toxic. Okay, that you're feeling, they're causing you guilt and whatever.

• 48:19Speaker 01

  Well, maybe we need to remove certain people from your area. I think it was, was it Jim Rohn? Or, I think he said that you become the sum of the five people you spend the most time with.

• 48:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And the average of the.

• 48:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and you've got to choose those people carefully. So your second half allows you to reposition yourself, see the first half, learn the lessons of the first half. Okay, because you won't fail if you've learned from your failure. So fail is only fail if you don't learn from it. Okay. And so I would often say, are you willing to invest in yourself? Okay, because really, if you think about your first half, you're investing your success to help your family, all these sorts of things you've kind of driven. And it's very, you don't really spend a lot of time on yourself. Maybe physically, I go to the gym or whatever. I mean, I'm sure you're finding the same thing of what you do. A lot of people, I don't have time to do this.

• 49:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 49:11Speaker 01

  Okay, but it's the most critical thing they need to do.

• 49:13Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. And you're right, they don't take the time to do it because they're not investing in themselves at all. They, they just get stuck in this Hampshire wheel of investing in their company and their employees and their families. And it's almost like there's some guilt associating with diverting time and energy away from that.

• 49:29Speaker 01

  Well, they think it's a luxury.

• 49:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  Okay, it's, it's a, it's a distraction or whatever. But, you know, business people, you'll understand this, they like the ROI, return on investment. I said, well, if you invest in yourself for the second half, and I could say you could double or triple or quadruple what you did in your first half, would you do it? And they said, absolutely. So why aren't you doing it?

• 49:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  Okay, if you could see invest in yourself now and your family starts flourishing. You invest in yourself now and your business starts for even more flourishing. Or you you create new multiple levels of flourishing. Your community flourishes. How would you feel that this is amazing? It says, but it requires you to invest in you.

• 50:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, it's funny because you forget that when you get to that point in your life. But that's exactly what you did when you went to college, maybe when you researched how to start a new business. And you started a business like you invested the time and energy into learning a new skill or learning something that would create flourishing later on.

• 50:28Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 50:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And then you flourished. And then you get to your forties or fifties, you have this kind of midlife crisis where you stop flourishing. Right.

• 50:35Speaker 01

  Well, because we think flourishing is success.

• 50:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 50:38Speaker 01

  Okay. And I would say it's like, if you can imagine you, you are a tree and you have lots of fruit and you're very fruitful. Okay. And that's that's your success. But if you had an orchard, then you start flourishing.

• 50:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 50:54Speaker 01

  And I think that's that's the moment that you move from that moment of success to significance. From that moment of what I'm building or to what can I impact?

• 51:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 51:04Speaker 01

  And, you know, in in seasons of life, I call it the four S's. Okay, you start with schooling.

• 51:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  Okay, so you need to educate, learn how you do it. And then the next S is success. And so hopefully you put all those things in, you start being successful and you start hopefully getting getting the money, building the family, whatever is going on, you can be successful. But then, like I said, you hit that midlife crisis, then significance. And then after significance comes succession. What am I leaving behind?

• 51:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Interesting.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  All right. And all of this is part of, I would say, that identity journey. Okay, going back to burnout. I sometimes think burnout is a gift. It sounds really crazy to say that because.

• 51:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I feel like mine was a gift.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, because it's the wake up call.

• 51:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  It's the thing that shakes you is questions, what you're going to do with it about it.

• 51:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  In that process. And sometimes our greatest challenges are actually going to be the things that make us the greatest champions. Okay, and in that process.

• 51:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's so true. You know, this book Halftime you mentioned, who's it written by?

• 52:02Speaker 01

  You know what? I wish I could remember, but it's a, it was, it was, it was a significant game changer. There was a guy who shared it with me.

• 52:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yep.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  And it just made so much sense.

• 52:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So this book, you know, there's entire communities now developed around this book where people are going through this time period in their life where they're going from like success to significance. And I also know that, um, I'll tell you a story. So I went to Africa a couple of years ago with my family and we're Rwanda and there was a guy that was living in a, in a house that he had built at the base of this like resort that we were staying at.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 52:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And he was living there and he was, um, he started a school and he started a farm where he was teaching hundreds of African kids in Rwanda.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 52:48Dr. Darshan Shah?

  School every day and he would also grow in the farm eggs. And every day he would give the kids eggs because they didn't have adequate nutrition. And he knew eggs were very important for children because they gave them the protein and the choline and the things they needed. And I asked this guy, cause he was obviously not from Africa. He was a Caucasian male in his like sixties. Like, what are you doing here? Where did you come from? And he said, well, I was a very successful lawyer in California. And I decided to move here after I read this book Halftime. And I read this book Halftime because I was super successful. And there's a community around this book that had formed to talk about what are we going to do next? And this is what I decided I was going to do. And so like it just, it just goes to show you that

• 53:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  it's so important to take that pause.

• 53:34Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 53:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  When you feel like you're at your halftime.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 53:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And to make a significant decision or make some decisions that lead to the shift to significance because I think probably burnout is not shifting to that significance mindset.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  In the right time.

• 53:50Speaker 01

  Well, if you think about it. When you live with purpose, it brings you joy.

• 53:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  When you live with purpose, you feel you can just keep doing it.

• 53:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 53:59Speaker 01

  Okay, like I said, it energizes you. When you're living for profit, okay?

• 54:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 54:05Speaker 01

  Or you're living to the bottom line or whatever. After a while, you've hit those targets, but it always there's another target. And there's another target.

• 54:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 54:13Speaker 01

  And it, and then you lose that sense of joy in that. And I think what you're hitting on is such an important point because if we can live from purpose, and this is, and it comes from your identity as well. Um, I, I, I say this, uh, keep all these little things I do, but I have four questions. Who am I?

• 54:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Mm hmm.

• 54:30Speaker 01

  Identity. Why am I here? Destiny or purpose? Well, who do I trust? Security. And the last one is where do I fit? Community.

• 54:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm.

• 54:39Speaker 01

  These are four life questions.

• 54:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  That we are constantly asking ourselves. But that second one, why am I here? Is the second of, is to do with purpose. But if you can't answer the first question, who am I? Then your purpose is trying to find out who you are.

• 54:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 54:54Speaker 01

  Whereas if you know who you are, your purpose then allows your identity to shine and impact what's going on.

• 54:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it, got it. Well, there's so much important discussion that we've had. This, this is such an important discussion. Because I feel like, um, this is something that's really impacting the health of the community of patients that I see. Because we work so much on their glucose levels and their cholesterol levels. But it really stems from a lack of purpose and a lack of direction.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 55:26Dr. Darshan Shah?

  A lack of significance.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Um, a lack of community that really drives all of these negative physiological content quizzes. And he was a lot of talk around blue zones.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 55:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right?

• 55:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  But really what they've done is they figured out the answers to those four questions.

• 55:42Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 55:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I think that's, that's this, that's the real kind of secret of the blue zones, if you will.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 55:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Is they've answered those four questions and they've answered them way before they were impacting their biology and becoming sick with chronic disease, right?

• 55:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 56:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And so maybe that's where the real magic lies and figuring out the answer to these questions.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  And I feel that if we're, if we look at ourselves as a whole, spirit, soul and body.

• 56:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  Okay, I mean, a lot of what you do is working with the body.

• 56:13Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Uh huh.

• 56:14Speaker 01

  But if we're also working with our mind and our emotional health. Okay, we, you know, our emotional quotient, our relational health.

• 56:21Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 56:22Speaker 01

  And even our spiritual health. Then if you put that all together, it actually creates a beautiful process. We, we've become a bit one dimensional in many ways.

• 56:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 56:32Speaker 01

  Okay. And I think the future, just some ideas of the future of healthcare is, and, and I think that all the talk of mental health and all these sorts of things. I think what, if we can find a holistic health service that actually respects each other and realizes we need each other.

• 56:48Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 56:49Speaker 01

  Okay, and we can refer to each other rather than, oh, you know, they're our competition or enemy. Actually, we then start creating holistic people.

• 56:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 56:57Speaker 01

  And then that changes society, actually, when you think about people who love themselves will love others. And if they love others, the community changes.

• 57:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah, that's true health, right?

• 57:06Speaker 01

  That's very true.

• 57:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's very true. Well, wow, see, this is such an incredible conversation. I'm really, really excited that you joined me today and I was able to pick up the conversation with you and really give this gift to our audience with you. Thank you for doing this.

• 57:21Speaker 01

  Well, it's been an absolute pleasure and I'm, I'm just thrilled to be just part of a holistic process.

• 57:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 57:27Speaker 01

  And, uh, you know, Darshan, kudos for what you're trying to do to create preventative health rather than just dealing with issues that they happen at the moment. It's, it's brilliant and that's, I think that's what we're both trying to do, trying to help people from not damaging or sabotaging themselves.

• 57:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, and true prevention comes from not just fixing your physiology, but also really looking at your mindset and your purpose and all the things that you talked about. So you're right, it does take a holistic strategy and holistic goes beyond the physical. It also dives into the things that you're talking about, also a mental health strategy. All of this has to come together to become truly healthy, so.

• 58:06Speaker 01

  Well, thank you for inviting me.

• 58:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, thank you. Where can people learn more from you?

• 58:09Speaker 01

  Okay, there's different ways. You can go to my website at W W, what is it? W W W dot, uh, Steve Troy in I N T L dot com.

• 58:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 58:19Speaker 01

  Uh, I also have a company called Insight Out. It's not Inside Out, but Insight Out.

• 58:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Inside Out was a good movie.

• 58:26Speaker 01

  It was a good movie.

• 58:26Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Insight Out is a great company.

• 58:28Speaker 01

  It's a great company, yeah. So it's insightoutcorp.com.

• 58:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 58:31Speaker 01

  And I have a whole bunch of coaches that, uh, work with me. To to help with organizations and to find coaching.

• 58:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  All over the country?

• 58:40Speaker 01

  Yes, all over the country. But we do a lot of it because of Zoom and everything. So if you need a coach to work with, we can find you a coach.

• 58:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, so even all over the world?

• 58:48Speaker 01

  Or even all over the world. I mean, actually, most of my clients are in Asia.

• 58:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, wow.

• 58:53Speaker 01

  You know, and so I have a very late night.

• 58:57Speaker 01

  And so I've had to find balance and not burn out.

• 59:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And where can people find you on social media?

• 59:02Speaker 01

  Just find at Steve Troy I N T L or Steve Troy. You'll often find me there. I also have a podcast called Transformational Leadership, which I do with another executive coach called Pete Cuffacho out in New York.

• 59:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Nice.

• 59:14Speaker 01

  And we we're looking at how can we help you lead your life? And when then if you can lead your life, you can lead other things a lot better.

• 59:22Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I love it. Thank you so much for this.

• 59:24Speaker 01

  Thank you, Darshan.

• 59:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Thank you so much for listening to the podcast today. Please remember to subscribe if you like this episode and give us a good review and share a link with your friends. It really helps to support all of our efforts. I also want to remind you that the information shared on this podcast is for educational purposes only and is not intended to replace professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Please consult with your healthcare provider or physician before making any decisions or taking any action based on what you hear today, especially if you have any underlying health conditions or on any medications. Your doctor knows your personal health situation the best, and it's always important to seek their guidance.