#1116 Matt Lohstroh On Why Every Oil & Gas Company Will Mine Bitcoin

Matt Lohstroh is the Co-Founder Of Giga Energy. In this conversation, we discuss Bitcoin mining, flare mining, fracking, how major oil & gas companies are getting involved, which countries are mining Bitcoin, the battle over clean energy, and what Matt & his company are doing to get more companies involved with flare mining. ======================= Bullish is a digital asset exchange that offers industry-leading order depth, consistently tight spreads, and new ways to earn, with world-class security. Combining innovations of DeFi with the performance of a traditional, centralized order book, Bullish lets you trade with certainty across variable market conditions. All in a regulated environment. Learn more at Bullish.com and follow @Bullish on Twitter today. ======================= Amberdata provides the critical data infrastructure enabling financial institutions to participate in the digital asset class. We deliver comprehensive data and insights into blockchain networks, crypto markets, and decentralized finance. Download our Digital Asset Data Guide at https://www.amberdata.io/pomp ======================= LMAX Digital - the market-leading solution for institutional crypto trading & custodial services - offers clients a regulated, transparent and secure trading environment, together with the deepest pool of crypto liquidity. LMAX Digital is also a primary price discovery venue, streaming real-time market data to the industry’s leading analytics platforms. LMAX Digital - secure, liquid, trusted. Learn more at LMAXdigital.com/pomp ======================= The number one name in NFT domains and the world’s most powerful wallet are teaming up to bring something new to the crypto and Web3 world: Either sign up for a free blockchain.wallet or visit Unstoppabledomains.com to buy your domain today. ================== With a Messari Pro subscription, you gain access to exclusive industry-leading long-form daily research reports, daily crypto news & insights in your inbox, advanced asset screeners, curated sets of charts and metrics and so much more. Try Messari Pro today! Get up to 25% off their Messari Pro membership by visiting www.messari.io/pro and entering promo code "POMP" at checkout. ======================= Arculus is the next generation crypto & NFT cold storage wallet that combines one of the world’s strongest security protocols with the easiest to use form factor and app. Arculus requires 3-Factor Authentication to ensure only you have access to your digital assets – something you know – a PIN, something you have – the Arculus Key Card, and biometrics. Learn more and buy it now on getarculus.com. Use promo code POMP to save 15%. Remember, with Arculus, it’s your keys, your crypto. =======================

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Matt Lochero is the co-founder of Giga Energy. In this conversation, we talk about flared gas, fracking, Bitcoin mining, and what exactly is going on at the intersection of oil and gas companies and the Bitcoin mining industry. I really enjoyed this conversation with Matt, and I hope you guys enjoy it as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I first want to talk about our sponsors. This episode is brought to you by Bullish. The Bullish Exchange leverages innovations of DeFi in a regulated framework, so you can execute fast, reliable trades with tight spreads, even in volatile markets. Bullish's total trading volumes have now exceeded $100

• 0:45Anthony Pompliano?

  billion since it launched in November 2021. Bullish offers industry-leading order depth. It's one of the deepest markets on the planet for Bitcoin and ETH. And now with its new Longhorn product release, there are more reasons to be bullish. They've got tighter spreads all the time and new ways to customize how you generate income on your idle assets. Learn more at bullish.com and follow at @bullish on Twitter today. This episode is brought to you by Amber Data. If you're a financial institution entering the digital asset class, you'll need access to granular on-chain and market data from multiple venues to power research, trading, risk management, and compliance. Amber Data delivers comprehensive data and insights into blockchain networks, crypto markets, and decentralized finance, empowering financial institutions to apply traditional finance

• 1:29Anthony Pompliano?

  methods to digital assets. Amber Data eliminates the infrastructure setup, integrated challenges, and maintenance headaches to access digital assets' data, reducing cost and time to market to enter the digital asset class. Learn more and download their Digital Asset Data Guide at www.amberdata.io/pomp. Again, that's amberdata.io/pomp. Go check them out today. This episode is brought to you by LMAX Digital, the number one institutional crypto exchange. They offer clients the deepest pool of liquidity, and they have 100% uptime track record through all the volatility spikes. LMAX Group's liquidity relationships and ultra-low latency technology means that LMAX Digital is the market-leading solution for institutions

• 2:12Anthony Pompliano?

  across crypto trading and custodial services. LMAX Digital, secure, liquid, and trusted. Go learn more at lmaxdigital.com/pomp. Again, that's lmaxdigital.com/pomp.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 2:47Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, guys. Bang, bang. I've got Matt here with me. Everyone wants to know about flared gas Bitcoin mining. They hear about it. It's supposed to be, you know, the greatest things in sliced bread. But I've got this theory. Nobody actually knows what the hell it means. So I thought a great place to start would just be like flared gas itself is obviously a huge problem. People understand, but they don't know how it works. Can you explain flared gas from kind of a one-on-one standpoint in terms of why is it being created and what's kind of the problem with this?

• 3:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. So when the industry is called oil and gas, it's because when you drill a well, oil and gas flow out of the ground. And it's often referred sometimes to when these guys are going after oil, associated gas. So to get to the oil, you have to get rid of the gas. Oil is in a liquid form. Natural gas is in a gaseous form. Oil is often trucked off on locations. Natural gas, because of the sheer amount of volume it has, has to go through pipelines. Pipelines take really long times. They have a lot of regulatory things going on in the place. And so just as a natural byproduct, when you have these massive wells come online, you don't have a market to get rid of the gas, but you still want to get to the oil. So what these guys do, and all these oil producers, is they flare

• 3:59Speaker 02

  the gas. And what I mean by that is they literally light a torch and a flame on the oil well and burn the gas off because it's so much more economical to go after the oil.

• 4:10Anthony Pompliano?

  So I dig a hole. And when I dig the hole, there's oil and gas. The oil, I know what to do with. I can bring it up to the surface. I put it into barrels or whatever, and I get it onto a truck and I take it away. And I'm going to go sell it. I'm going to get rich. With the gas, the only thing I can do with it, because it's in this specific gas form, is to build basically entire pipelines.

• 4:31Speaker 02

  Billion dollars.

• 4:32Anthony Pompliano?

  And if I do that, I Could make money with it, but it takes too long and it's too expensive. So I'm much better off just saying, screw it. I know I dig this hole and there's two assets that are in there. But really I can make enough money on just one of them that I can just burn the other one and kind of throw it out.

• 4:46Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 4:47Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. When they burn it, that's when bad shit happens.

• 4:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 4:51Anthony Pompliano?

  What is going on in that process?

• 4:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, so flares, the flame or the torch on the oil well site, they do not have 100% combustion. And what I mean by that is when you burn methane, CH4, it combusts into CO2. But you're not burning all of it. You're burning around 91% of it. And methane, CH4, as a greenhouse gas, is about 25 times worse for the environment than CO2. Yes.

• 5:18Anthony Pompliano?

  So 9% of what is going into the air is really, really bad shit. 91% of it maybe isn't the best thing, but it's way better than if it was the CH4 or the methane.

• 5:29Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 5:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. I'm not a scientist, so I'm going to call that out to start, because I'm going to say a lot of dumb shit probably today. But as this process is happening, how much is gas flaring contributing to the folks who believe that climate change is explicitly due to human involvement or human action? Like, if we went and stopped all gas flaring, could we solve the climate crisis? Or is it a small percentage or somewhere in between?

• 5:57Speaker 02

  I'd say for the relative amount of natural gas out there that's being flared, if you were to mitigate that, it would have a, it would, it would take a small amount of effort to have a massively outsized impact on the environment, just because of how potent methane is, 25 times worse. Every dollar you put in, you're getting 25, 25X on your return and mitigating that. So it wouldn't solve the climate change issue by any means at all, but it would have a significant impact, dollar for dollar.

• 6:27Anthony Pompliano?

  And what are people doing now, before the whole Bitcoin mining stuff? Like, are there things that people are trying to do to solve the gas flaring problem? Are they like, I'm assuming lobbying, telling the oil companies to stop is probably step one. But like, what else are people trying to do to solve this problem?

• 6:44Speaker 02

  So the World Bank has set out a goal to ban flaring all around the world by 2030. So it's in everyone's minds that it needs to be done. Now, you have people like Russia in there, a lot of people in the Middle East, right? They're not going to be as open to that, but like, that's where a massive amount of flaring is going on. And so. For, everyone kinda agrees, it's a waste. Old producers don't wanna lose revenue. And people don't wanna have the, you go to Midland, you don't even need to drive with headlights at night. Because there's so many flames lighting up the highway.

• 7:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Really?

• 7:12Speaker 02

  Yes. That's how prevalent it is.

• 7:15Anthony Pompliano?

  Wow.

• 7:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:16Anthony Pompliano?

  That, that is like literally probably the craziest thing anyone's told me about this entire industry. Is that there is so much flaring happening that it almost acts as streetlights.

• 7:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 7:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Jesus. Okay, so if the producer does not flare the gas, is this when we see like Russia's got, you know, 15% of all natural gas exports and things like this through all these pipelines? Like, that's basically what is going on, uh, where they're not flaring and they're actually using the natural gas and sending it somewhere else. In the United States, do we have a big network of pipelines for natural gas? Or like, we get like a B minus grade? Like, how, how would you kinda think about the United States' infrastructure for moving natural gas around?

• 7:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's sticky, right? So there's massive amount of infrastructure and pipelines all throughout. East Texas, Louisiana area, and going all the way up to the East Coast. But when we discover a new basin, for instance, uh, over in Pennsylvania, they discovered all this new natural gas, uh, not too long ago. There's no market to get it from Pennsylvania to New York. And we discovered a new basin in North Dakota. There's no network out there, and these pipelines are at complete capacity, 100%. And so they say, even though you have a pipeline here, we, it literally can't hold any more gas. And so there's this delayed effect of finding a basin and then not being able to monetize that gas.

• 8:31Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, uh, I'm gonna really venture into things I don't know about. Keystone Pipeline was being built, gets shut down. What is that?

• 8:39Speaker 02

  That was an oil pipeline.

• 8:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, so that's oil, that's not natural gas. Are there natural gas pipelines that are controversial, or people have tried to either build or shut down? And, and there ends up being kind of like, uh, I guess, maybe intellectual battles over them, or political battles?

• 8:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, whenever you build a pipeline, you have to get right of ways. You have to have massive amounts of capital to do so. Um, there's, the administrations in recent years, bipartisan have been like cracking down on it. Because there's a lot of old pipelines out there that are leaking methane. And so from an operating standpoint, regulatory standpoint, there's a very high barrier to entry to build a pipeline.

• 9:14Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, so we talked about dig a hole, oil and gas. Uh, then we're now talking about transportation of both oil and gas. But ultimately, the transportation is going somewhere. Like, the point is not just to like, drive around in a truck. It is to get it eventually somewhere. And so the consumers of oil are pretty well understood. The consumers of natural gas, who are they normally?

• 9:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, for instance, fertilizer. Massive amount of natural gas is used to create fertilizer. Heating, home heating devices. Now, we're moving away towards electrifying all of that. And then, natural gas power plants. So I think, a massive amount, like 40, 50% of Texas is powered off natural gas. It's super efficient, super clean, relative to all the other fossil fuels. And so that's where a massive amount of power comes from, on that side of things.

• 10:02Anthony Pompliano?

  And is it fair to think about, so, take Texas as an example. They're gonna drill for the oil. There's economic incentives to do it. The world runs on oil, right? And so, rather than flare this asset by being able to consume it, you're really just allowing the oil and gas companies to understand they're turning what would be trash, right? Or kind of waste into a revenue stream, which they're incentivized to do. But you almost need the oil and gas and the infrastructure to fit into the consumption and like, the local economy as well. Is that like, a fair framework to use?

• 10:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's good. What we kind of try to do, we try and make a lot of analogies with these oil producers. The first one we start off is calling it a digital midstream, or a digital pipeline. There's a market for your gas, and we can sell it. Here's the amount of revenue per unit of gas you would make.

• 10:49Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. Now, the flared gas problem, bad news. You all show up. And you all being the mining industry in general, but also, obviously, gig energy as well. And the idea is, hey, don't burn the gas. Don't transport it away. Like, we will consume it right here. So rather than try to get it to a fertilizer plant, try to get it to homes, or whatever, you're gonna go onsite, you're gonna consume it for Bitcoin mining. That sounds like, ah, like the Holy Grail. What is that actually entail? Like, what's going on when you show up? Like, maybe start with, you go to an oil or gas company, you say, hey, you got gas? We want it.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 11:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Walk me through the process, actually getting infrastructure in place so you can consume it onsite.

• 11:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, so the biggest thing, because everyone's going after the cheapest form of energy. That's why we go after flare gas. The drawback with flare Bitcoin mining is the fact it's so capital intensive upfront. You have to buy a natural gas generator, so a reciprocating engine or a turbine that takes in gas, combusts it, turns a generator and puts out electricity. Then you have to put in the modular data centers. The nice thing is you don't have to have any sort of transformers, because you're creating your own voltage. You don't have these massive voltage outputs.

• 11:59Anthony Pompliano?

  How much is the machine to make the electricity?

• 12:02Speaker 02

  Usually ranges from 250,000 to half a million a megawatt.

• 12:06Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, so these are like, compared to like, setting up a restaurant, that's way more expensive than most of the machinery that goes into that. All right, and then the modular data center, how big are they? How much do those usually cost?

• 12:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, and to preface this, so we have a manufacturing facility. We have about 20,000 square feet of manufacturing in Texas. We manufacture the natural gas generators in-house and we manufacture the containers in-house. Not necessarily because we can do it so much cheaper, but because we don't have the COVID excuse of timelines. So we are in charge of our own deployment schedules and we're not relying on other people. The data centers themselves, they're usually around 60,000 to 100,000 a megawatt.

• 12:42Anthony Pompliano?

  So those are actually, oh, per megawatt. Okay, all right. And when you set these up, can you set up one of these combustion engines? And like, one data center and you just make it as big as you want? Or is it something where there's like a ratio that you need a certain amount of the modular data centers per engine or whatever?

• 13:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, usually what we do is we do one to one. One generator powers one data center. There's a lot of things that go on the electrical engineering side of stuff and the fuel input and then all these variables. And so that, if you have one to one ratio, that's usually best.

• 13:13Anthony Pompliano?

  How many machines can go in the modular data center usually?

• 13:16Speaker 02

  We do anywhere from 320 to 400.

• 13:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, and given current prices now, let's just do a little math exercise. It's public math, forgive us if we make mistakes. Let's call 400 machines, given current difficulty and price sitting around $20,000.

• 13:31Speaker 02

  Two grand.

• 13:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Two grand per day, so about 60,000.

• 13:33Speaker 02

  I'm sorry, two grand for a computer. You're asking revenue.

• 13:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, so the, the, uh, the price of the machine is about two grand. So really you're in $250,000 for the engine. You're in about, let's call it 60 to 100K for the actual data center itself. And then you're in about $800,000 for all the machinery. So if we add all that up, public math, call it 1.2, 1.3 million dollars, somewhere in that ballpark. How much revenue can it drive today?

• 13:57Speaker 02

  So, right now with specific Bitcoin prices, you're gonna be generating 30 petash market rate. It's gonna be 72 bucks. So, right around, sometimes, yeah, so like around 200, like two grand a day?

• 14:10Anthony Pompliano?

  $2,000.

• 14:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, about 2,000, 2,500 a day.

• 14:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, so it's like $60,000, uh, every single month. And so, year and a half, give or take, basically, kind of payback period. But that's with Bitcoin at a $20,000 price point. And most of these guys, uh, being the oil and gas companies, do they understand, uh, hold the Bitcoin on the balance sheet? Or are they basically trying to mine Bitcoin at the oil, uh, kind of head? Oil head, I think is the right terminology, I don't know, maybe not. Or, and they're trying to sell it for cash flow?

• 14:40Speaker 02

  So, it is very hard to get oil and gas companies comfortable with Bitcoin. Sometimes they're comfortable with it, sometimes low level management is, but then some, like, usually goes up the chain and then some CC guy shoots it down.

• 14:52Anthony Pompliano?

  The old people.

• 14:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, the old people.

• 14:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Experience is how we like to call it around here.

• 14:57Speaker 02

  So, there's two ways we structure Bitcoin mining, getting on, right? I'm sure you saw Exxon getting into oil and gas, uh, on the Bitcoin mining side. They did not actually mine the Bitcoin themselves. They just had a gas purchasing agreement. So they sold the gas to a Bitcoin miner for a certain amount that was below market rate.

• 15:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Why is that controversial? And, and, uh, let me give some context here. I saw the news, uh, I may or may not have known that, uh, there was a pilot going on previously. But I thought it was like, one machine, you know, like, I didn't put a lot of kind of weight behind it. I saw the news and I was like, oh, obviously everyone's gonna be like, duh, this is so smart. The reaction was like, very controversial. The Bitcoiners loved it and there was a bunch of people who were basically like Exxon is the devil and like, why are they doing this? If they're just selling the gas, it almost felt like maybe like there was a morality being assigned to like who the consumer was?

• 15:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's somewhere along those lines. And then you have the generalized like Bitcoin uses too much energy, right? Debate. And I think it just comes from lack of education personally.

• 15:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. Is it controversial that they were doing this?

• 16:00Speaker 02

  I, the echo chamber I'm in with Bitcoiners and oil and gas guys, it was not controversial.

• 16:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. So all they're doing is they're just selling gas that they may have otherwise flared or sold to another customer to a Bitcoin miner and the miner is mining. But they're keeping the Bitcoin being the miner, not Exxon.

• 16:15Speaker 02

  And the thing is, these publicly traded oil and gas companies, especially Exxon, right? They have ESG mandates where like, people are taking their revenues and dividing it by the amount of flare gas you have, right? And looking all these different metrics and then scoring them and docking these guys. And so they are under very specific mandates to come down and like, get rid of all flaring volumes. We know publicly traded companies that, one, one particular project, we weren't able to come out and service, they dug a pit in the ground and flared the gas like below surface and then covered it up with all this technology.

• 16:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Wait, wait, wait, rewind this. Hold on, hold on. In an effort to still continue to flare the gas, but not let anyone know they were doing it. They basically built an underground bunker and were flaring it under the ground?

• 17:00Speaker 02

  Not like, but it wasn't covered. But yeah, I mean, they dug like a big old pit in the ground and

• 17:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, so it was exposed, but it was below the surface?

• 17:07Speaker 02

  Trapping the sunlight in and everything like, because they're in a really small town. And so they didn't want all these people around there. Everyone knows who the company is. They didn't want to get a bad rap. And like, they're under a very strict mandate from execs.

• 17:18Anthony Pompliano?

  And so where did the gas go? They flared it?

• 17:20Speaker 02

  They're flaring it, but it's

• 17:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Into the sky?

• 17:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:22Anthony Pompliano?

  But it's just, you can't see it.

• 17:23Speaker 02

  You can't see the flare.

• 17:24Anthony Pompliano?

  So like, it's kind of like if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, did they, did it really fall? Jesus. Is that a common practice?

• 17:31Speaker 02

  That I was very surprised when I heard that. Okay. So and keep in mind, I don't come from the oil and gas industry. My, my business partner, he's third generation oil and gas. So any knowledge of oil and gas that I seem to have, I just learned it from him.

• 17:41Anthony Pompliano?

  That's fair. I'm gonna learn from you. So like, that's like, I'm fifth generation oil and gas, I guess. If, if you think about the flaring component, if they have to get rid of flaring, being the oil and gas companies, and there is this solution, why have we not seen every single oil and gas company like rush out and get as many of these contracts signed as possible, and then turn around to the public markets, be like, oh, look, we're like these eco-friendly warriors and look at how smart we are. We've figured out a plan to get rid of all of our flared gas.

• 18:09Speaker 02

  Most, I'd say like 60 to 80% of oil and gas, like publicly traded oil and gas companies have had some sort of Bitcoin mining pilot project. They will not talk about it, though.

• 18:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Why?

• 18:22Speaker 02

  I don't know. There's some sort of perception with Bitcoin, whether it's the supposed criminality of it, the energy consumption, fake money, like, there's all this stigma surrounding it, and they don't want to deal with it.

• 18:34Anthony Pompliano?

  Are you allowed to say the other companies who have pilots?

• 18:37Speaker 02

  I can't, no, unfortunately.

• 18:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, see, now you don't say it either.

• 18:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Let's just jump to the big dog, Aramco. I keep seeing everyone's talking about that. And they're like, Aramco's gonna do Bitcoin mining. My understanding, again, this is a rumor, because they're already piloting stuff, they're already trying stuff. But let's say hypothetically, they came out and they publicly said, "We are going to do this." They, I believe, are the largest oil and gas, kind of, energy company in the world.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  They're the largest company in the world.

• 19:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. What would be the impact if they publicly kind of stood behind doing this type of effort?

• 19:10Speaker 02

  I think from the American side, it wouldn't have a lot of impact.

• 19:13Anthony Pompliano?

  It would not.

• 19:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, from the oil and gas companies, because it's just different cultures. You have Vision, like, 2030, I think it is, where they're trying to diversify out of their oil and gas assets. What better way than to take your oil and gas assets and get Bitcoin into the kingdom, from my personal perspective, from a financial side of things. But internationally, though, I think it would have some, like, pretty cool implications, if they're doing that at scale.

• 19:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Why would the American companies not care if Aramco said they were doing it?

• 19:41Speaker 02

  Um.

• 19:41Anthony Pompliano?

  Like, it doesn't provide, like, I think when Paul Tudor Jones and Stanley Druckenmiller were like, "We're buying Bitcoin," there's a career risk removed for Wall Street. Would Aramco, you think, because it's just not an American company?

• 19:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's, yeah, more along the American company line of things, it's just not within the culture subset. Now, I might be wrong, but like, to me, it wouldn't be, like, that's not the equivalent of, like, Apple coming out and saying, like, "We think Bitcoin's good," publicly, right? Like, the same amount of implications that would have.

• 20:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Is there a oil and gas company in America that you think would have the, like, Paul Tudor Jones, Stanley Druckenmiller effect, if they came out and said that they were doing it?

• 20:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think if ExxonMobil, like, owned it, and was like, "No, no, we're not selling the gas, we're using it, here's the operations, here's what it is," and, like, publicly pushing it. I think that would have a lot of people, like, go like, "Huh?"

• 20:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  But they're kind of, like, hesitant.

• 20:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, yeah. But it seems like the open secret in the oil and gas industry is everyone's trying it.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  You cannot have a conversation today about natural gas without talking about Bitcoin.

• 20:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Do we think Russia's doing this?

• 20:34Speaker 02

  Like as a nation?

• 20:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, just. They got a lot of natural gas they're exporting, right? Like, and again, I am not an expert on oil or natural gas. But I would think that if you are a surplus, or if you have a surplus and you're exporting a lot, sure, you can make money doing that and they have the pipelines and all the stuff. But like, if you figure out a way to very profitably consume it on site, you probably will at least like run the math.

• 20:57Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. And the thing is too, Russia has some of the most largest amount of flare gas in the world. They have these massive natural gas treatment facilities. So that's where you take the methane and then you strip out because it's natural gas. So it's not pure methane. There's propane, ethane, butane. And so in these processes, there's just so much extra waste. And so they're flaring like hundreds of megawatts centralized facilities in Russia. And you can see it like one satellite.

• 21:25Anthony Pompliano?

  Now, when you say centralized, they're going in there drilling in all these places. They're getting the natural gas, they're bringing it to a central facility and they're lighting it on fire.

• 21:33Speaker 02

  They're treating it and then they have this extra amount of gas that they don't really want because they're going after another subset of the gas and they just have these massive flares going on.

• 21:40Anthony Pompliano?

  And so rather than flare, mine, and like you're rich.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  And that's the biggest like drawback and complaint about flare gas bitcoin mining is it's fragmented. You have all of these different like one or five megawatt, 10 megawatt locations all over the place. You can't have a centralized 100 megawatt facility like you could on grid. And like, that would be an instance of having massive scale.

• 22:00Anthony Pompliano?

  So Russia has this centralized component. Does America, do we not have these centralized facilities?

• 22:04Speaker 02

  No, we're pretty efficient on, in terms of treating the gas and making sure we pick up every drop.

• 22:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And so if this became more prevalent in the oil and gas industry, do you think people would be incentivized to build the centralized facilities?

• 22:18Speaker 02

  Absolutely. It just, well, so no, so we have the centralized facilities. It's just when we're treating the gas, we take up everything. We're super efficient with it.

• 22:26Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, got it. So we're not, we don't, at the centralized facilities, we don't need to burn it because we're using everything.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, we are extremely efficient. Russia, everything like that, they're kind of lackadaisical.

• 22:34Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And so the only reason why we're flaring is because we don't want to move it at all. It's not, we don't get something out of the process. Okay.

• 22:45Anthony Pompliano?

  All of the miners that are publicly traded right now, they all do not use flared gas, or there's some that actually have flared gas facilities as well?

• 22:54Speaker 02

  I don't know of any publicly traded Bitcoin mining companies that use flared gas.

• 23:00Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, is there a size constraint? You mentioned earlier 100 megawatts, if there's only one to five megawatts, like they're trying to go to bigger facilities? Is it a public market won't like this? Like, why do you think there's this like very interesting thing that's happening in the mining space, but the publicly traded miners aren't doing it yet?

• 23:18Speaker 02

  I think it'll happen. It's just on the side, it's so technically engineering intensive. Like, it's super easy for an oil and gas guy to get into Bitcoin mining, but it is near impossible for a Bitcoin miner to get into oil and gas.

• 23:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Why?

• 23:33Speaker 02

  There's, there's so different world, like, they're completely different. You have safety concerns, you have like FR, like fire resistant materials you have to wear on locations. You have a natural gas generator that has 250 moving parts that will break, and you have to maintain it all times. It's not like driving your Toyota Camry. Like, there's so much that goes into it on the engineering side, safety, you're working with fuel systems that have 1,000 PSI of pressure that could kill you. And so, a Bitcoin miner on grid, all they do is they just plug into an outlet and negotiate a power contract. Like, it's a very different type of...

• 24:06Anthony Pompliano?

  That's like the asset light, it's not really asset light, but it's the equivalent of like Uber owns no cars.

• 24:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:11Anthony Pompliano?

  It feels like if you're not doing the actual oil and gas work, then you kind of are just, you know, you're freeloaded.

• 24:16Speaker 02

  Exactly. Yeah, exactly. You're still...

• 24:18Anthony Pompliano?

  I'm joking, I'm joking.

• 24:20Speaker 02

  Your energy comes from natural gas, you're just downstream of it.

• 24:23Anthony Pompliano?

  When you think of these facilities, what is the maintenance like? So, you've gone out, you've got the generator, you've got the data center, you've got the machines in there. Do you all have to have like a full-time person? How many people per machine? Like, how do you think about the maintenance of these to make sure that they're always producing capital?

• 24:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we have a minimum threshold for our facilities, and we always have two full-time staff per facility. We have a full-time mechanic, and we have a full-time ASIC technician, per se.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  The mechanic is in charge of regularly checking up on the generators, daily making sure that everything's running smooth, there's no smoke coming out, right? There's a lot of stuff that goes into it. And we have a lot of data analytics that we read digitally, making sure that we have a lot of preventative maintenance going into place. There's so many different like KPIs and metrics that you need to pay attention to on this side of things to make sure you have consistent power production.

• 25:15Anthony Pompliano?

  What's the smallest facility you all have built? And what's the largest, not by name, but just like size wise? Like how many generators maybe?

• 25:22Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, generator wise, it'd probably be around, um, one, one facility we have has about eight generators within a 10 square mile radius.

• 25:31Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I mean, that's pretty big, right?

• 25:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. So you're, you're basically able to generate what $16,000 a day, give or take through eight generators?

• 25:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, it depends. I mean, we have varying amounts of generators based on the natural gas sizes. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's up there.

• 25:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. Uh, this is a side note, but important. Um, have you seen the viral video of the guys drilling for oil and they've got the chain and they keep throwing it around?

• 25:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:56Anthony Pompliano?

  And people are like, oh, this is actually what like mastery and hard work looks like compared to like the laptop class. Uh, what, what is that? Just like a normal oil well? And like, that's what goes on in these, uh, facilities all the time?

• 26:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, I mean, um, again, I'm not all professional by any means, but, uh, you're taking pipe that's five, six inches in diameter and sticking it like 10,000 feet down into the earth, divvying it at an angle, going after a very specific pinpoint in the earth and hitting that. And now when you put these pipes together, like it's not one big piece, right? They're 20 foot long. So then you gotta twist them together. And now if you're going to be 10,000 feet in the air, they gotta make sure they're really twisted together. So like, there's all this stuff of like, you gotta use these massive chains. Uh, it's like a very dangerous labor intensive process.

• 26:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. I wanted to, uh, elicit the visual of that specific video because the natural gas side, is it the same danger, kind of griminess and, and all that, that you see in that video? What, what are they doing there? Same thing? Just putting together the pipes or something else?

• 26:55Speaker 02

  So in that video that, that you're referencing, um, they're, they're, they're twisting together these pieces of pipe that are going down into the earth, like 10,000 feet deep. And so they're taking these chains and it's called throwing chains. And so you start on the

• 27:08Anthony Pompliano?

  That just sounds fucking cool.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's wild. It's wild. Uh, it's super dangerous. I mean, like if you let the chain slip, it'll break it back.

• 27:14Anthony Pompliano?

  Wow.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  I mean, you got like, I mean, these chains are like 300 pounds.

• 27:16Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:17Speaker 02

  So, yeah, they're called throwing chains. You throw them up and then you basically you walk the chain up and it twists it in a fashion that cinches it together and it's like one last cinch on top of it. And then, and then you take the pipe and you stick it down the earth and you do it all over again.

• 27:31Anthony Pompliano?

  And so what it's really doing is it's pulling the pipe down into the earth and there's another pipe that comes over.

• 27:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:36Anthony Pompliano?

  You put, you throw the chains, right? And then you just keep continuing doing that process all the way to 10,000 feet.

• 27:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:41Anthony Pompliano?

  Jesus Christ. We are all such.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  And that's how your T-shirts made.

• 27:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, we're all such fucking losers that don't do that every day. All right. So in that process, as the pipe is going down, is the oil coming up in just the one pipe? Or is oil and gas both coming up in the same pipes?

• 27:58Speaker 02

  Oh, now you're getting out of my league.

• 27:59Anthony Pompliano?

  Uh oh, uh oh.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  I don't want to, Brent's watching this right now, my business partner. From what I know, the oil, there's, there's kind of sections of pipe within each other. So oil flows through one and then like the outside of the, the gas flows up.

• 28:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, that makes sense. Once we get up in, I don't know, reality, outside of the ground, is there a world where people will start to use the oil on site to mine Bitcoin? Or is it just the gas?

• 28:26Speaker 02

  Just the gas.

• 28:27Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, explain why.

• 28:29Speaker 02

  I mean, the opportunity cost of using oil on an economic basis for all these other purposes is far outweighed than like the marginal revenue you can make mining Bitcoin.

• 28:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Really?

• 28:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:38Anthony Pompliano?

  So actually, the gas is valuable because it's burn it and make nothing and destroy the environment. Or mine Bitcoin.

• 28:50Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 28:50Anthony Pompliano?

  So like, that's a no brainer. It's like revenue versus essentially lost revenue. But the oil, even if you were to be able to mine on site, it's still more profitable to direct the oil to other use cases.

• 29:01Speaker 02

  Correct. And I'm not even aware of like power production that's like powered off of raw crude oil. Like it has to be refined and goes through all these massive facilities. And so, yeah, there's, there's too much opportunity.

• 29:09Anthony Pompliano?

  And so I'm assuming that means that there aren't like modular refining slash power production type things that they're putting at the wellheads.

• 29:15Speaker 02

  No, no. An oil refinery is like multi-billion dollar national security, like pumping out.

• 29:21Anthony Pompliano?

  It's like Andrew Carnegie, like, you know, Rockefeller. Rockefeller, JP Morgan shit.

• 29:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, like wild.

• 29:26Anthony Pompliano?

  I remember watching a documentary and being like, wow, it is amazing that Rockefeller literally became a cool, vulnerable billionaire because he was like, oh, you don't want to put my oil on your train? I will create pipelines.

• 29:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:38Anthony Pompliano?

  And that was like a groundbreaking idea.

• 29:40Speaker 02

  And that was a $3 oil. Whatever that was back then. Yeah.

• 29:44Anthony Pompliano?

  But like, that is really how so much of this industry has been built is like, somebody faced a problem and had to figure out how to solve it. So if we fast forward to today, one of the problems is the gas flaring. What is your all's view in terms of how this plays out? So like, we know now, kind of, again, I just got my crash course on like, how it works. If we look forward, do we expect that every single oil and gas company will eventually not flare gas and they'll mine Bitcoin? Will they just figure out something else to do with the gas? Like, what does this look like going forward? This episode is brought to you by Unstoppable Domains. They've partnered with blockchain.com to create NFT domain names ending in . blockchain. It's the perfect ending to show that you're a believer in a decentralized future.

• 30:23Anthony Pompliano?

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• 31:04Anthony Pompliano?

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• 32:18Speaker 02

  The first part of that question to answer is the price of natural gas. So prior to 12 months ago, natural gas was at super depressed prices. It was at $2 per unit of gas, which is like basically nothing. Sometimes in the summers when there's not much demand, it was around a dollar.

• 32:34Anthony Pompliano?

  What was the Putin gas hike? Where did it go to?

• 32:36Speaker 02

  Up to like 10, $10. Yeah.

• 32:38Anthony Pompliano?

  500%?

• 32:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. And so I think we're sitting right now in $6 to $8. And to have like a dollar price swing in this day and age was like wild back then. It was 50%. And so a lot of the, so oil and gas, natural gas production and flaring started skyrocketing because of two reasons. More, more, more and more drilling and two, depressed natural gas prices.

• 32:57Anthony Pompliano?

  So basically we're uncovering more natural gas through the drilling process, but we also can't make tons of money with it because it's so cheap. So therefore it doesn't make sense for us to build the pipelines to get it.

• 33:08Speaker 02

  Exactly. Okay. And now the pipelines.

• 33:10Anthony Pompliano?

  It's funny, supply and demand.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  They call it the Permian Highway. So the Permian Highway is coming in. Everyone's trying to get these pipelines here because they want to get more for their gas.

• 33:16Anthony Pompliano?

  What is the Permian Highway?

• 33:17Speaker 02

  So the Permian Basin is Midland, Texas. That's where that big region.

• 33:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Friday Night Lights.

• 33:22Speaker 02

  Exactly. And so that's, that's where all the dinosaurs are hanging out back then. And the.

• 33:28Anthony Pompliano?

  Is that real? Is that really what people think?

• 33:30Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no. It's all from plants. It's all organic. So the actual, uh, I lost my train of thought.

• 33:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Uh, Permian Highway.

• 33:39Speaker 02

  Permian Highway.

• 33:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Off the Permian, or through the Permian Basin?

• 33:42Speaker 02

  Permian Basin, yeah. So everyone's trying to get pipelines in there. And so there's localized, like, so natural gas in the Permian Basin goes for less than other places, just because there's too much supply and not enough demand.

• 33:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it.

• 33:53Speaker 02

  And they can't get out of it. And so there's also another part of oil and gas where there's this low hanging fruit. So you could have, um, drill a well and it may produce 90% oil and 10% gas. Everyone obviously went after that first. Well, it's been like 10, 15 years since the, all the fracking started. And so now there's more and more low, like, the, the low hanging fruit's gone. And so there's more higher percentage of natural gas being produced.

• 34:15Anthony Pompliano?

  Fracking?

• 34:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 34:17Anthony Pompliano?

  The 30 second explanation.

• 34:20Speaker 02

  Fracking is the process of pumping sand to fracture rock that holds oil. Before fracking was invented, we just went to sand formations and it flowed on its own. The reason why Saudi Arabia is so rich is because they need no fracking. They can drill 1,000 feet into the ground, which is super shallow for an oil well, hit oil, have no gas and like, no water.

• 34:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, so these dudes are rich because not only do they have oil.

• 34:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:52Anthony Pompliano?

  But they don't have the other stuff. So they're like, pure oil.

• 34:56Speaker 02

  Super pure, super good. Yeah. Now they have gas, but like, the, like, we, so we, we toured some people from Saudi, um, at one of our sites and they were fascinated.

• 35:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Saudis are interested in this.

• 35:05Speaker 02

  Yes, they are. Um.

• 35:07Anthony Pompliano?

  Interesting. We'll get to that in a second.

• 35:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. And they were fascinated by Pump Jack. And so Pump Jack, if you know, is like a plunger. It sucks the oil and, and gas out of the earth.

• 35:16Anthony Pompliano?

  Because it's using science and pressure to.

• 35:19Speaker 02

  Correct. So then, so there's not enough natural pressure for it to free flow. So you have to get a plunger to suck it out in Texas.

• 35:24Anthony Pompliano?

  And they don't have.

• 35:25Speaker 02

  They don't, they were fascinated. They're like, oh, we've seen these in the movies. Like, it's just, you just drill a oil well and it comes out on its own. Like.

• 35:30Anthony Pompliano?

  And there's so much built up pressure when they drill that it flows freely.

• 35:35Speaker 02

  Flow naturally.

• 35:35Anthony Pompliano?

  There's almost none or very little natural gas or water or anything else. And then going back to this fracking thing, uh. I'm not an expert on Saudi, but like it looks like there's sand a lot of places. So they don't have to go through rock as well.

• 35:48Speaker 02

  Correct. So it's called shale formations. And so theirs would be in sand formations. In America, in a lot of the basins that we found, it's in shale or rock. And so you split the rock open and the oil flows out.

• 35:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Why is it so controversial?

• 35:59Speaker 02

  Uh, it's super energy intensive. Um, there's a lot on the environmental fracking side with the water off take because you're pumping this water in. It has to come back out and it's.

• 36:10Anthony Pompliano?

  So we're using water to bust it or we're using sand?

• 36:13Speaker 02

  You're using sand and water and then blasting it in.

• 36:16Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. Like almost like little bullets.

• 36:17Speaker 02

  Exactly. Yes. And so it's a very specific type of sand.

• 36:20Anthony Pompliano?

  So the oil men are at war with rocks to get to oil.

• 36:24Speaker 02

  That is, yes, factually correct.

• 36:26Anthony Pompliano?

  Yes. And no wonder the politicians need it. I got it. They, they like to be at war. Not to let other people fight wars. All right. Um, so if the fracking process, once you get past the rock, it's the same thing though. It's oil, gas, whatever's in there. Is there a difference in how much natural gas is found in shale versus?

• 36:47Speaker 02

  Good question. So, uh, and that's, that's why, so shale, uh, when you frac it, it, there's something called a decline curve.

• 36:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 36:54Speaker 02

  So there's a massive amount of gas that comes out in the first 18 months. And then over that 18 months, it's going to decline by about 90%.

• 37:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Does this have anything to do with like, uh, oil and vinegar separates? So like oil and gas separates or something?

• 37:07Speaker 02

  No, uh, it's just, it's just purely on like, uh, like you open a carbonated drink. It's super fizzy when you drink it. And then by 24 hours later, it's like pretty much gone.

• 37:15Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. You can just tell me that was a dumb question.

• 37:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:20Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. So you have that decline. Do you have the same decline in, uh, the rock when you were doing fracking?

• 37:24Speaker 02

  So, you know, yeah. So the decline curves happen from rock, from sand is usually much, much less.

• 37:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. Because it's not kind of pent up and built around.

• 37:32Speaker 02

  And so, so naturally, if you're like, okay, we're going to drill these oil wells. We're going to have a massive amount of natural gas come on. But then we know in 18 months, it's going to be cut down by 90%. We're not going to build the capacity for that massive amount of gas. We're just going to flare it anyway.

• 37:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And just burn it.

• 37:47Speaker 02

  And that's where a lot of this comes from.

• 37:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. Um, but I'm actually learning a lot here. So this is very helpful. Uh, you mentioned that the Saudis came and checked this out. I don't even know what to ask. So like, what are the Saudis doing? Why aren't they doing this?

• 37:59Speaker 02

  Not saying they're not.

• 38:00Anthony Pompliano?

  All right.

• 38:01Speaker 02

  Not, not, not saying. Yeah, they are very, very sophisticated. I mean, they have the largest oil and gas company in the world. They have a ton of flared gas. They're very economically incentivized to. And then, of course, from mitigating the flaring side.

• 38:14Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Is there a world where Saudi says, we are going to stop all gas flaring because we're going to mine Bitcoin? And we're going to beat the United States to being the environmentally friendly drillers?

• 38:26Speaker 02

  I mean.

• 38:27Anthony Pompliano?

  Is that, is that a race, like space race? Like, do we have like a, a stop?

• 38:31Speaker 02

  Environmental.

• 38:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Gas flaring race?

• 38:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, everyone's collectively, so the World Bank, everyone is like working right now. So the World Bank like puts out a ton of stuff on flare data. I mean, like they have satellites tracking the flares. Like, I mean, you can see volumes.

• 38:43Anthony Pompliano?

  That's interesting. Why is the World Bank so interested in this?

• 38:46Speaker 02

  Um, I don't know. That's a good question.

• 38:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Supposed to be a bank.

• 38:49Speaker 02

  Good question. I don't know, but they are very, very focused on that from an environmental perspective.

• 38:54Anthony Pompliano?

  But, but the general scientific community, like consensus is that like?

• 38:57Speaker 02

  Flare gas is bad.

• 38:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 38:59Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah, there's like, that is not a controversial thing whatsoever.

• 39:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. And so like fossil fuel usage, how much energy, like all that stuff's up for debate. But like, everyone agrees that the flaring thing's bad. And the, I'm assuming the oil companies are just like, yo dude, like figure something out for us. Or like, we have to do this to get to the oil?

• 39:17Anthony Pompliano?

  Like, what's their defense? Like, I'm sitting there, like, if I'm an Exxon executive and, you know, right now, we have people who literally are like gluing themselves to concrete and, you know, using tomato juice or whatever on the artwork. They're like, stop oil, you know, stop drilling for oil. But what is the defense of the oil industry as to why the gas flaring is happening? Or maybe like they haven't stopped doing it because they have to do it for to get to the oil?

• 39:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, they have to get to the oil. Yeah. And so they're, so, um, yeah, it's just they have to do it. And there's not, it's not illegal. So there, but there's some, so well, Colorado flaring is illegal.

• 39:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, in Colorado, they said no flaring?

• 39:49Speaker 02

  No flaring.

• 39:49Anthony Pompliano?

  What? This is very fascinating. So like when they said that, what changed in the oil and gas industry?

• 39:53Speaker 02

  You couldn't drill some wells.

• 39:55Anthony Pompliano?

  Interesting.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  Or you have to delay the process for well for a pipeline to come in to suck up all the natural resources.

• 40:00Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. So this is like classic government intervention in a free market because they have like ancillary interest in terms of the environmental stuff, whatever. Did some companies just pull out from drilling at all? Or they're like, no, we'll lay the pipelines. It'll just take us longer.

• 40:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, it just takes us way longer. Yeah. So I mean, but it messed up a lot of projects. Some people saw it come in. And then there's like a varying amount of regulation. So for instance, in North Dakota, they're like, you can flare, but you have to gather it all to one location and then flare 20 wells on one site.

• 40:30Anthony Pompliano?

  So like, don't burn a hole in like the entire ozone. Just like put that bitch right up in one area.

• 40:34Speaker 02

  It's from like a life pollution perspective.

• 40:37Anthony Pompliano?

  I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm just imagining like the conversation between politicians who are not experts in oil and gas and the oil and gas executives and some politicians like literally like, hey, let's not burn the whole ozone. Let's just put it all in one area. And we'll just put one hole. That's obviously better, right?

• 40:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's funny. That's the first thing that comes to your mind.

• 40:56Anthony Pompliano?

  There's some politician on DM on Twitter, like, actually, that is exactly how the law came together. All right. So let's talk about the Bitcoin mining component of this. Is there anything different outside of like the modular data centers and obviously the ability to take the natural gas and turn it into electricity? Is there anything different on the Bitcoin mining if it's flared gas or kind of mitigating flared gas? Or if I was just like in a normal data center or power plant or whatever?

• 41:21Speaker 02

  So the biggest thing is lead times and no need for transformers. So big constraint in Bitcoin mining community is you need a transformer. When you have your own generator, you get to create your own voltage. And Bitcoin mining uses a very specific voltage because all the computers are Chinese. It's 415. The other component of that is timelines. You have these massive schedules with these public utilities to get connected. You got to negotiate on the power pricing. Bitcoin mining on all well, like chuck it out, you can turn on in two days and you're in. There's no intent here to you just turn it on, make sure you have the air permit and you're ready to go. So it's the thing that I always tell people is it's a lot quicker and. A lot less nuanced in terms of the supply chains.

• 42:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And so what's the downside? Like if you were to argue, there's a bunch of critics.

• 42:08Speaker 02

  No, there's a lot of downsides.

• 42:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Obviously, I think people know where I stand on this, but to be clear, I think that mitigating flared gas with Bitcoin mining is a good thing.

• 42:17Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 42:18Anthony Pompliano?

  But I have seen a lot of critics online who are yelling and screaming about all kinds of crazy stuff. What do you think are the fair critiques or the things that you're like, no, actually, that's like a good point? And there's trade offs here. And so we think it's a net positive to go do this, but like, we do agree that that's like a downside or a risk.

• 42:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, our goal is to reduce the emissions for the marginal barrels of oil we need during the energy transition. So the

• 42:39Anthony Pompliano?

  How could someone hate that?

• 42:41Speaker 02

  Exactly. Like you're like, that's a good thing. The side from, that people often complain about is you're propping up the oil companies. You're allowing, you're giving them another stream of revenue. That's one point I hear. I don't necessarily agree with that because the amount of money you're making off this like flared gas relative to like a thousand barrels of oil is minute. It's not going to move the needle for them at all.

• 43:03Anthony Pompliano?

  How much, like just ballpark, a thousand barrels of oil that they're selling at like a hundred bucks, eighty bucks, whatever it is.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  And then you're doing that per day.

• 43:11Anthony Pompliano?

  Yep. And then on the flared gas, the flared gas or the non-flared gas that would have been flared.

• 43:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:18Anthony Pompliano?

  How much could they make off that?

• 43:19Speaker 02

  Maybe a thousand dollars a day.

• 43:21Anthony Pompliano?

  So it's literally nothing.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  Like pennies.

• 43:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Yeah. It's the equivalent of like 12 barrels of oil.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  And on the side from like methane, like the big part of this is methane, like every like point of methane you mitigate, it has 25 times the impact, just because it's so much more potent of a greenhouse gas.

• 43:39Anthony Pompliano?

  So what's your guys like game plan? You go to the companies, you say like, buy our equipment from us and like, we'll help manage this and like, we'll get, we'll get you in the mining game? Or do you show up and you're like, hey, you geniuses, like just sells the power at really cheap prices. You're sells the gas at really cheap prices. And then like, well, don't worry about what we're doing. Like, we're just going to go over here and do our thing. And then you're making a bunch of money.

• 44:01Speaker 02

  So yeah, we have two streams, both of what you described. So the first one is We will buy your gas below market rate, will be fully transparent with what you're doing because oil and gas guys are really smart. So I know several people that were approached by Bitcoin mining guys. They thought it was such a good idea, but the Bitcoin mining guys are trying to be secretive and they spun off their own companies and did it themselves.

• 44:21Anthony Pompliano?

  I think I know exactly the people you know.

• 44:22Speaker 02

  So oil and gas guys are really, really smart and clever.

• 44:26Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, and they're capitalists.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  Yes, and they have access to a lot of capital. They're up to, they're used to up and down markets. So like they get it. So we're very transparent.

• 44:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Redneck rich is like the perfect.

• 44:36Speaker 02

  There's some sophisticated women out there.

• 44:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, rednecks are very sophisticated. Have you ever gone to like somebody who lives in the country, a redneck, and he's got like traps and everything like do not fuck around. But they have capital and they, and also I think what's important is like they're also very business savvy as well, like to your point about sophistication.

• 44:54Speaker 02

  And I talked to like guys all the time in oil and gas, the very successful ones, within two to three minutes of me explaining it, sitting down for like 30 minutes like you, they reiterate it back to me and they understand all the levers of how to pull.

• 45:06Anthony Pompliano?

  And how much, this is a weird question, but like when people think of oil and gas industry as they do most industries, like, oh, they all believe the same type of things. They all, you know, vote politically the same way. They all have the same values and ethos. Obviously, that's not true, but there are generalizations. Is there something to do with like the ethos of Bitcoin overlays very well with like the oil and gas community? Or is that an ignorant external view and like they don't care about that shit? They just are like, can I make money or not?

• 45:31Speaker 02

  I would say based on stereotypes with Bitcoin and stereotypes of oil and gas folks, there is like pretty significant overlap.

• 45:39Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. Okay. And to be clear, like I've had many, many conversations over the years, firemen, right? Even police officers, like there's a whole bunch of people who have certain generalizations about their profession and it tends to align very well with Bitcoin and therefore they tend to be sympathetic to it. And so oil and gas being one of them.

• 45:59Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 46:00Anthony Pompliano?

  So you guys go, you're like, hey, let's work together. What do customers normally do? Do they want to have you guys do the operations and maybe just get like a revenue share? Or do they just want to sell you the gas and like they don't want to ever hear the word Bitcoin?

• 46:11Speaker 02

  Correct. There's two. So some like are like, we don't want to mess with it. It's too much money. We don't trust it. Awesome. Great. We'll buy your gas. We'll buy it for this amount. We'll have a gas purchasing agreement. No different than you would sign with a midstream. So we structure everything very familiar.

• 46:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 46:24Speaker 02

  And then we manage everything, put up all the capital, take the gas, mine the Bitcoin, and they never hear from us.

• 46:30Anthony Pompliano?

  So in that scenario, there's no upside for them outside of what they signed on the contract?

• 46:34Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 46:34Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 46:34Speaker 02

  Well, but keep in mind, there is significant upside on reducing emissions, reducing their carbon footprint from Wall Street perspective. Like, I mean, it has a lot of implication. We've talked to oil and gas companies. They don't even care if they make money sometimes. Because they need to get rid of the black eye.

• 46:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Of course. Of course.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Uh, do you know who Vivek Ramaswamy is?

• 46:53Speaker 02

  I don't.

• 46:53Anthony Pompliano?

  The Strive Asset Management. He writes letters to Exxon to the shareholders and he'll be like, I am one of your shareholders. Uh, I do not think that you should be worried about these ESG bullshit. Uh, I think your job and your responsibility to shareholders is to make money. Right? And so supposedly, uh, him and I spent almost four hours together.

• 47:13Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 47:14Anthony Pompliano?

  The executives love that type of approach because now they say, hey, all these big financial organizations, we get it. You guys want us to do this ESG thing. We also have other investors who do not care about that. They just want us to make money. And so what it does is it provides like a balance. And again, they're not going to do all one or the other, but like it provides for more of kind of a rational view. It seems like what you guys are doing here is like, you're almost providing a, a, a solution that they can then go brag about to Wall Street and be like, hey, we have actually found a way to mitigate our, our flaring of gas. Like, we're good.

• 47:46Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 47:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Right?

• 47:47Speaker 02

  We try to be very pragmatic ESG of like, we will handle it. We'll reduce carbon emissions by this amount and we'll help you and we'll make money at the same time. Like.

• 47:57Anthony Pompliano?

  So if you just buy the gas, that's clear. What about this other option? Like, I'm assuming this is like more like a partnership where like you guys are going to do the operations, but then give them some of the Bitcoin or the profits?

• 48:06Speaker 02

  Correct. So we have a full-scale manufacturing facility where we manufacture all this in-house specific to Bitcoin mining and, and oil and gas. Sometimes we have oil and gas producers just flat out buy all of our equipment and, and do it themselves. Like, they are smart enough to figure it out. I say like Bitcoin mining, like you don't like want a teenager on site. We could have a 20-year-old on site.

• 48:25Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, yeah, yeah. Me and, I don't know if you know Jason Williams, like, we figured it out. We're dumb.

• 48:29Speaker 02

  It's not that hard. Like, it's very easy. You plug a power cord in and an ethernet cord in and then like type in an IP address. Like, you're done.

• 48:34Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 48:35Speaker 02

  Like, it's not that hard.

• 48:36Anthony Pompliano?

  By the way, the typing part, that was kind of confusing at first, but the plugging in, like, we figured that out.

• 48:41Speaker 02

  And so like, and then like, the problem is, is like, it's so. Like new, yeah, like anyone who mines Bitcoin sounds like they're genius.

• 48:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 48:49Speaker 02

  And they're not. I mean,

• 48:50Anthony Pompliano?

  I felt like a genius.

• 48:51Speaker 02

  You feel like a genius, your grandma's so proud of you, but like in reality, you're plugging into the ethernet power cord.

• 48:55Anthony Pompliano?

  So when you do more of this like partnership thing, are you guys mining Bitcoin, like giving them a percentage of it?

• 49:02Speaker 02

  Sometimes the contracts are structured such.

• 49:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Would you give them Bitcoin or cash?

• 49:06Speaker 02

  It depends. We're open to either.

• 49:08Anthony Pompliano?

  Usually they probably want cash?

• 49:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, usually it's cash.

• 49:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. It's interesting because if they get into the game, the oil and gas producers, and they start to mine themselves, then they will be forced with the question of do we keep it in Bitcoin or do we put it in cash? And one of the things we know is if you can remain solvent for long periods of time, putting it on the balance sheet in Bitcoin usually ends up being a pretty good decision.

• 49:32Speaker 02

  Correct. And Michael Saylor has done a good job of helping out with like on the publicly traded companies. Like there's a lot that goes into owning that Bitcoin asset. And so he's kind of created the framework. No, I've tried to present it to some of these oil and gas companies that are publicly traded and like it just is never really well received.

• 49:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, you're like the worst person in the world to go talk to them. You're like, hey, so this ESG thing, which most of them I don't think even really enjoy talking about, like we have a potential solution, but we're going to introduce this new issue that you're gonna have to answer questions about. And I could see them just being like, all right, like, can you just buy our gas?

• 50:03Speaker 02

  And oil and gas too is very seniority based.

• 50:06Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, interesting.

• 50:07Speaker 02

  It is. It's not like tech, anything like that. So it's like very much like,

• 50:10Anthony Pompliano?

  So like the CEO is like been around for a while.

• 50:12Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. These are all like, and it's very much like top down. Like, so the fact that you would have something like a 20 year old in the space, talking about something to work with is like very a hard hump to get over in the first place.

• 50:22Anthony Pompliano?

  Are there oil and gas companies that are being started by young people with this specific purpose?

• 50:27Speaker 02

  To mine Bitcoin?

• 50:28Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 50:29Speaker 02

  No.

• 50:29Anthony Pompliano?

  So like the vertical integration really is what you guys have done, which is like, we're miners, but we will on the manufacturing side do it. That's the vertical integration. Nobody has yet been able to connect. Like we own the power plants and we own the mining and like we want to be the boss.

• 50:46Speaker 02

  Correct. Yeah. ExxonMobil has not like manufactured something yourself and done in-house. Yeah.

• 50:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, I wouldn't expect them to do it, but the opposite, like have miners gone and tried to buy the power plants yet?

• 50:56Speaker 02

  Like buy like

• 50:58Anthony Pompliano?

  So you're referencing on grid or off grid right now? Either one, right? I'm pretty sure that I've seen miners go and buy on grid power plants. But have we seen miners go try to get the actual like oil operations, oil and natural gas operations? Control.

• 51:15Speaker 02

  I know. Yeah, I know a couple Bitcoin miners that have a P5 operating license in the state of Texas, which is what you need. It's what it's your driver's license to operate a oil well in Texas.

• 51:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Interesting.

• 51:24Speaker 02

  I've seen that.

• 51:25Anthony Pompliano?

  And they are actively operating them? Or they just have?

• 51:29Speaker 02

  I know guys that like are Bitcoin centric that got a license, they're drilling for a well and and using it to mine Bitcoin.

• 51:36Anthony Pompliano?

  That's fucking cool.

• 51:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Wow.

• 51:40Speaker 02

  It's a little bit different than our mission, but like it is like crazy on the vertical integration side, like what people are.

• 51:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 51:45Speaker 02

  Cause there's monetization to make.

• 51:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Of course. When you think about what you all are doing, tell me more about like the business and kind of what you guys think is your specific or like unique value to kind of keep pushing for.

• 51:55Speaker 02

  So to date, we've mitigated a quarter billion cubic feet of natural gas that would have been flared or vented. Our goal is to go in with, because have the highest amount of uptime, because having good up rate uptime on off grid is extremely hard and difficult. We've managed to really show that we're very competent on that side from operating. And then continuing to expand on the international front. So we have a JV down in Argentina that we're going to be kicking off pretty soon. And then some other international plays where it's the Permian Basin, but all the more there's a ton of gas and then less and less infrastructure just because of less capital in the space.

• 52:34Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. So really what you all want is you want areas with huge pockets of oil and natural gas. You want very little infrastructure in place. You want people who are sophisticated and intelligent and have capital. And then because it's just the Bitcoin.

• 52:48Speaker 02

  We don't necessarily want that, right? But it is there, but like that's, that's.

• 52:51Anthony Pompliano?

  That's the entry point to the market.

• 52:52Speaker 02

  That's that's your point. Yeah. So it's there and then we're here to fix.

• 52:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, exactly. And, and really, if you were to overlay, okay, like the best places for you all to go in and get started also happens to overlay with the exact areas where there's probably the most flaring on like a percentage basis.

• 53:06Speaker 02

  And like where there's flares, there's a lot of flares because they all have the same issue geographically.

• 53:11Anthony Pompliano?

  Man, it almost is like Bitcoiners are solving a real problem.

• 53:13Speaker 02

  It is.

• 53:14Anthony Pompliano?

  What can people who listen to this or watch this, what can they do to help? Is it like an education thing? Is it like a come work at these companies? How can they participate?

• 53:25Speaker 02

  I think it would be generalized education in the space of like, and you did, done a great job asking like very nuanced questions.

• 53:31Anthony Pompliano?

  Dumb questions.

• 53:31Speaker 02

  But I mean, but they're like, you, you, you kind of intuitively understood like the clankers, right? Those are like interesting things.

• 53:38Anthony Pompliano?

  You know what I did this morning?

• 53:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:39Anthony Pompliano?

  I Googled oil and gas. And that's where I started.

• 53:45Anthony Pompliano?

  And then I saw a diagram and I still don't understand how the pipes go in and then there's the angle.

• 53:50Speaker 02

  It's crazy.

• 53:51Anthony Pompliano?

  And I was like, holy shit, these people are smart.

• 53:55Speaker 02

  And then like, yeah, Bitcoin miners are like arrogant enough that they think they can't mine Bitcoin. It's like, no, they don't need you.

• 54:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Like, I don't think people understand. When I saw the diagram, I literally was like, so you put a straight pipe into the ground, but somehow it ends up at an angle.

• 54:09Speaker 02

  Deviating it, yeah. And you're hitting like a formation that's like not very big.

• 54:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I was very impressed.

• 54:14Speaker 02

  Perfect, yeah.

• 54:15Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. So what can people do after they listen to this?

• 54:19Speaker 02

  It's a good question. I would recommend looking, I mean, seeing flares in areas. People reach out all this time. We've had great opportunities of saying, hey, oh my goodness, I saw a flare here. Like, can you help me like mitigate it? Sometimes we can't, sometimes we can.

• 54:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, you got like flare hunters?

• 54:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have people all the time being like, hey, my grandparents, they own, they own the mineral rights for this. They've had this flare, they hate it, like, can you come help us?

• 54:42Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, interesting. So even like individual families or whatever, they've got some of these because they've got the land.

• 54:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, they got the land mineral rights in Texas. Yeah, so it's like not uncommon for that to happen with us.

• 54:51Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And that's pretty fucking cool.

• 54:53Speaker 02

  It is cool.

• 54:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh yeah, my grandparents have a oil drill and they're flaring gas.

• 54:57Speaker 02

  They call it mailbox money.

• 54:59Anthony Pompliano?

  Really?

• 54:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, mailbox money.

• 55:00Anthony Pompliano?

  Cause they're just selling it off.

• 55:01Speaker 02

  And the oil company just sends them a check in the mail every month for the royalties that they own.

• 55:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, got it. So they're not actually operating it.

• 55:07Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no. Yeah, it's just on their land.

• 55:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. Yeah, I mean, that's probably pretty lucrative.

• 55:13Speaker 02

  It is, yeah, it's a good, yeah. Home studying was a good thing back then.

• 55:16Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. So if you, uh, know FLARE.

• 55:19Speaker 02

  Know FLARE.

• 55:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Reach out.

• 55:21Speaker 02

  Reach out.

• 55:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Where can we send people to do that?

• 55:23Speaker 02

  Uh, you can go to our website, gigenergy.com. Uh, we have a submission form for just contacting. We even have a phone number. So, uh, someone will pick up. It's like the

• 55:31Anthony Pompliano?

  Old school.

• 55:33Speaker 02

  Well, we're, yeah, it's oil and gas. So we try and be like, super pragmatic, down to earth, easy to contact and like, we get it. How can we help?

• 55:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. All right. So you got FLARE hunters now. We're going to drastically increase the size of the FLARE hunter, uh, community. Uh, is there anything else that people could do that could be helpful?

• 55:50Speaker 02

  Understand Bitcoin. Understand that energy usage is not necessarily a bad thing in general, like the R squared with GDP relative to energy consumption is very, very high. And that's for a reason. Uh, so don't feel guilty about using energy. Um, and then understand why Bitcoin using a relatively small amount of energy might be a good thing.

• 56:13Anthony Pompliano?

  I have yet to see any of the, uh, eco-friendly people, uh, advocate for stopping the use of refrigerators or washers and dryers. But my favorite one, a couple of years ago, I was trying to think to myself, like, what's something absurd that consumes more energy than we all think? Uh, that you could basically sub out Bitcoin and put this in because they were like, oh, Bitcoin consumes more energy than like whatever country. And I remember like Googling around. It took me like way longer than I want to admit. And then all of a sudden I came across this random article on a website that it kind of looked like, I don't know if this is real or not. And they said Christmas lights.

• 56:47Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 56:48Anthony Pompliano?

  And so then I would like do some more research or whatever. And I was like, oh, Christmas lights use more energy than some countries. Like, we should stop Christmas.

• 56:55Speaker 02

  Yes, quit it.

• 56:57Anthony Pompliano?

  And I forget where I said it, but the first time I said it, the reaction, I was like, home run. Like for sure, that is the one that like, yeah, like this sounds ridiculous, right? Because, uh, that has no economic, uh, value or whatever. It's entertainment.

• 57:12Speaker 02

  Yep. But it's like, it's just, yeah.

• 57:15Anthony Pompliano?

  There's nobody's arguing that like your life is better because of Christmas lights. You may be happier. You may

• 57:21Speaker 02

  And that's a good use of energy. You're willing to pay the bill and there you go.

• 57:24Anthony Pompliano?

  I don't think that we should stop Christmas lights.

• 57:26Speaker 02

  You know, another good one?

• 57:27Anthony Pompliano?

  What?

• 57:27Speaker 02

  Hot water.

• 57:28Anthony Pompliano?

  Hot water?

• 57:29Speaker 02

  So like you need for like washing dishes and stuff, but like 30% of your electricity bill is usually because of hot water. So just because you want to have a warm shower in the morning. That's where all the energy is.

• 57:39Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, because you're soft.

• 57:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I mean, that's exactly what it is.

• 57:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:42Anthony Pompliano?

  We should get rid of the soft people and then we'll have less energy.

• 57:47Anthony Pompliano?

  As we joke, though, but like, uh, dryers, that was, that was the one. I forget somebody who told me it, but they were like, yeah, like you need the, actually, you don't even need the washer, really, right? But like, you could make an argument that, uh, dryers are simply consuming energy because people are too lazy to be patient to just let the clothes dry outside.

• 58:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:06Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? They're like, go to other countries. Like, yeah, people are, whatever. And really washing clothes as well, but like, okay, we'll give you the washer, but like, no dryer type thing. And then refrigeration is the one that cracks me up.

• 58:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:17Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? It's like.

• 58:17Speaker 02

  Just salt your food.

• 58:18Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 58:21Anthony Pompliano?

  What are you guys talking about? You don't understand. Yeah, we get it. But I, I think that the narrative is changing. Like, you know, maybe the last thing is just like, do you feel like the pendulum is kind of swinging in favor of, uh, there was a narrative, that narrative probably is not rooted in as many facts and data points as originally it was perceived. And so it's kind of swinging back towards, uh, what would be maybe like a pro Bitcoin mining argument?

• 58:44Speaker 02

  Or no? Oh, no, no, I think it's gonna get worse. And I, I think it's like, because it's a very, it's a, it's a factual statement and it's hard to understand. And so, um, yeah, I think it's gonna get worse and worse. I think it's gonna be the number one narrative that Bitcoin uses too much energy. And like, if you think something's like, has zero intrinsic value, of course, you think any marginal amount of energy going towards it's gonna be a waste. So the inherent problem is not that it should be using X amount of energy, it's the fact that they don't see any value in it. And that's okay, I understand that, they'll eventually come around to it. But until like, the majority of the population comes around to the fact that they put some value into Bitcoin, there's always gonna be the energy argument, in my opinion.

• 59:21Anthony Pompliano?

  It's been the single most, uh, disciplined monetary policy, oh, for sure, over the last three years, over the last 14 years.

• 59:28Speaker 02

  I know, and it, it doesn't, doesn't waver. 900 Bitcoin a day.

• 59:32Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Where can we find you on the internet?

• 59:34Speaker 02

  Uh, I'm on Twitter, at Lohstroh, L-O-H-S-T-R-O-H. That's the easiest way to find me.

• 59:39Anthony Pompliano?

  I really appreciate this. I know I ask dumb questions, but I did learn a lot. And my hope is that people who listen to this and understand now, gas flaring, shale fracking, and many other-

• 59:52Speaker 02

  Shale versus sand.

• 59:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Sand, yeah, sorry. I see like how stupid I am. But people who kind of learn about this stuff, like this is, I don't know, this is like the appetizer, like go learn.

• 1:00:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is just the surface.

• 1:00:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Yes. And as much as I joke around, I started Googling with oil and gas, which I did. Very quickly, I got pretty like in the weeds. And what was fascinating to me is how much good information there actually was. Like, there's a lot of explainer content and things like that online that are pretty easy to consume for somebody who has very little knowledge about it. So hopefully people go do that. And if not, then they can reach out to you and you can give them an individual crash course.

• 1:00:28Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Appreciate it.

• 1:00:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Thank you.

• 1:00:30Speaker 02

  Thanks for having me.

• 1:00:31Anthony Pompliano?

  Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I really hope you enjoyed this one. Make sure you're subscribed on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. And if you're looking to transition into a brand new job in the Bitcoin or crypto industry, we've got you covered. Head over to thecryptoacademy.io. My team and I have been working with the top HR teams in the industry to develop an intensive three-week training program with over 50 live events. We teach you exactly what you need to know to break into the industry, including live interview prep and resume review. Our students have been hired at over 75 of the world's best Bitcoin and crypto companies. Go to thecryptoacademy.io to learn more. Again, that's thecryptoacademy.io. If you enjoyed today's episode, make sure you share it with your friends and I'll see you all for the next episode.