John Wall former NBA All Star on man he is today after overcoming dark place, perseverance, love of basketball, real story behind retiring, dealing with grief, fatherhood and next chapter on Amazon broadcast

“I was at the highest point of my career, signed a max contract, all NBA team, top 3 player in East to boom, hit rock bottom. And I got through it. Life isn’t going to be easy, there’s a lot of adversity and challenges, just don’t quit.” John Wall In one of the most authentic and powerful conversations of the year, John Wall opens up on pulling himself out of a dark place and the moment he chose life and light over a frightening alternative. He speaks from the heart as he shares his journey with Ryan, Fred and Channing, hoping to show people who struggle with mental health, there is always a way out. The conversation is raw, honest, and formidable as we talk everything from basketball to brotherhood to parenting to resilience to grief and manage to have lots of laughs throughout. From being the No. 1 overall pick to battling injuries, criticism, and personal loss, John talks the highs and lows of his journey in the league. He reflects on what the game has taught him about loyalty, mental toughness, and finding purpose beyond the spotlight. This episode goes deeper than stats and headlines—touching on growth, accountability, legacy, and what it really takes to keep pushing forward when the world counts you out. He explains his real reason behind retirement and responds to rumors, gives his perspective on today's game and highlights the players who he respects in NBA today. Full of Kentucky Wildcat pride, John describes the differences between young athletes of now and his era, NIL and what the future of college basketball looks like. In a more personal moment, John opens up about his mental health journey, the unseen battles he faced while navigating injuries and public scrutiny, and how losing his mother—his biggest supporter and anchor—changed his life forever. With vulnerability and strength, he shares how grief reshaped his perspective on basketball, manhood, and purpose. Wall also talks about his next chapter, including his new role with Amazon Prime, stepping into media and storytelling while redefining what success looks like beyond the court. With the guys navigating the conversation, the episode goes deep, diving into healing, identity, and learning to evolve when life forces a pivot. Pivot Family, don't forget to like, comment and hit the subscribe button! We love hearing from you and wish all of you a safe and happy holiday! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  We go V.

• 0:09Speaker 00

  We go V. Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Semaglutide injection, 2.4 milligrams a GLP-1. Call 1-8334-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait? We go V.

• 0:30Speaker 02

  John Wall was a five-star in high school. Country's best point guard, a Kentucky signee. And, we've heard this story before. It normally works out for these type of people. And, in many ways, on the court, it did. But, in other ways, he lost the most important parts of him. As we move forward, he became the wizard star player. He was on top of the world. He'd just come off of his best season as a pro, and he was taking the NBA by storm. But, in the blink of an eye, that all changed. He was injured, he lost his mother, and he lost all hope. This conversation isn't about the hole he was in, or the depression he suffered from, or how close he actually was to taking his life.

• 1:11Speaker 02

  It's about his redemption, and how he got out of that dark place, and has now moved forward. He has a new career, he has a new future, and he has a new why. This is a dude that couldn't go to class at Kentucky. So, wait till you hear what it was like to be outside as a star player in DC. He shared some of his favorite hoop moments, and he also talked about some things he wished had went another way. This dude's gonna be an absolute TV star. He drops basketball gems for days, talks about he truly has the bag, how he'd fix college basketball, and he gave advice to our favorite high school hooper. We've been cooking this one up for a while, and we're excited that it drops today.

• 1:54Speaker 02

  Take some time, and please, listen close, as John Wall bears all with the pivot right now.

• 2:01Speaker 03

  What's up, dawg? What's up? What's up? What's up? What's up?

• 2:05Channing Crowder?

  You good, bro?

• 2:06Speaker 03

  I'm chilling. How you doing? What's up? Ain't much. Everything good with you? Yep. For sure. Staying out the way. Uh huh.

• 2:12Ryan Clark?

  Hey, you forget how tall them jokers is, man.

• 2:14Channing Crowder?

  But a little bit tall.

• 2:16Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 2:17Speaker 03

  All right, ain't that tall?

• 2:18Ryan Clark?

  Hey, the ones you be like, man, he had to jump out the gym to dunk.

• 2:21Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 2:22Ryan Clark?

  And then they walk up on you, and you like, well, damn, he's 6'4".

• 2:44Ryan Clark?

  Hey, man, this is John Wall, number one overall pick, multiple time All-Star, All-NBA player, 2014 Dunk Contest champion. That was in New Orleans, my hometown.

• 2:54Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:54Ryan Clark?

  By the way, you kind of brought it back. This is Fred Taylor, Channing Crowder, Ryan Clark, pivot fam. Thank y'all for pivoting with us. For somebody that got like a lot of sauce in life, you eat some dry ass hamburgers.

• 3:08Speaker 03

  Yo, you bring that up?

• 3:09Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 3:11Speaker 03

  I don't like sauce. I don't eat no condiments, anything. I like my burgers.

• 3:14Ryan Clark?

  So if we get you, if we was like, hey, man, there's like, you know, John Wall's coming, we're gonna get him some food, you'd be like, give me a patty and two pieces of bread?

• 3:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's all I need. That's it. Burger gotta be medium well, I'm straight. I don't do sauce. I might do like teriyaki barbeque sauce. Come on, don't make that face, Channing. Come on. Do you?

• 3:34Channing Crowder?

  Meat and bread.

• 3:35Speaker 03

  Do you ever order your burger without the buns? Nah, I don't do that, man. He does it all the time. And what you get on it, though?

• 3:42Ryan Clark?

  I get, I have everything, the lettuce, the pickles, the tomato. No, I just cut it like with a fork.

• 3:46Speaker 03

  What is that?

• 3:48Ryan Clark?

  It's a lettuce wrapped burger.

• 3:50Speaker 03

  He gotta wear his suits.

• 3:50Channing Crowder?

  Oh, so he even said medium well. You don't even know how to be rich yet. You don't know how to be rich.

• 3:56Ryan Clark?

  Nobody eats a medium hamburger.

• 3:58Channing Crowder?

  You get a well hamburger?

• 4:00Speaker 03

  Medium well. What you get yours?

• 4:01Channing Crowder?

  Medium or medium rare?

• 4:03Speaker 03

  The color of his hair.

• 4:04Channing Crowder?

  Cause the goddamn Wagyu five Japanese meat is so good.

• 4:08Ryan Clark?

  I don't wanna see no red and pink.

• 4:08Channing Crowder?

  Why not? Cause it melts in my, I don't even use my teeth. I just rub it against the top of my mouth.

• 4:14Speaker 03

  I just don't want to see no red and pink. So y'all picking on me and looking at me.

• 4:18Channing Crowder?

  Well, I love to see red and pink.

• 4:20Speaker 03

  That's super country. That's super country. I thought I was country. You're beyond country. Bro, the fat just break down. So you want, what's the little thing everybody doing now? The tenderness? Tenderness, yeah. That's how you?

• 4:31Channing Crowder?

  Oh, the tenderness, that old nigga that fall apart.

• 4:34Speaker 03

  I didn't see the video before I came here. Boss Man D Lo picked it up. He was like, woo. Like, nah, I'm not doing it.

• 4:40Channing Crowder?

  I wanted to meet the fall apart like brother.

• 4:43Ryan Clark?

  Tom, man, you know, now you're doing TV, right? On Amazon, do work on the association. For you, what has that transition been like? You played basketball your entire life and people in the media sometimes get this stigma of those are the people that don't bridge the gap between the game. Those people forget what it's like to play on the court or have never played on the court. Now that you stepped into the second career, right, your second act, what has that transition been like for you?

• 5:14Speaker 03

  It's been kind of like bittersweet. I mean, like, I still wanted to play, but you know, you kind of understand the politics of what's going on in the business. And then I have injuries, so you know, I knew the time was kind of there. So for two years, I was just sitting back like, am I ready to give it up? Do I still want to play? And then I had the opportunity early January this year to do broadcasting for the G League Showcase. That went pretty well. Then I got a call from NBA TV to do it in Atlanta and that went well. And then shout out to Amin and her crew for Amazon. They reached out. It was like, we want to offer you a job. I'm like, all right, it's time to retire. I guess the next chapter is the next phase. And I was ready for it. So you know, I have a great team around me, sitting around, talking to them, just asking questions. I'm like, I know I can still play. I know I can do this, but do I still have the love to get up, to work out every day

• 5:58Speaker 03

  and still have that competitive drive? And I was like, nah, this the next chapter. This what God has planned for me. And now I'm just going at 100 miles per hour, like trying to get better every day. I mean, everybody looking at it's like, you're doing great. I'm like, yeah, but I treat it as like going into my rookie year into an NBA season. Like, I know the basketball game. I don't know the level of it. I'm still trying to learn, still watching film, still have a coach to study and teach me all the right things. So. It's a great space, I mean, I'm enjoying it, I'm happy to be a part of the team.

• 6:24Channing Crowder?

  How you let Taylor dougie you on that post though?

• 6:27Speaker 03

  Really, I ain't really wanna get into it. So like, we supposed to do like the Icky Shuffle one-two-step. Then we really supposed to go down there and take pictures. Then Blake tried to hit a little fake dougie. And then I had to hit a little sample, he's like, oh, then they dropped the high school song. For my homeboys from back in high school, I'm like, y'all really gonna play this right now? They played it for like 10 minutes, I'm like, now I gotta do it. So I gave him a little sample.

• 6:48Channing Crowder?

  It wasn't that first Wizards dougie.

• 6:50Speaker 03

  I didn't wanna give him the full one, I just wanted to give him a sample. And I was trying to get off the set and take this picture and get up out of there.

• 6:55Channing Crowder?

  Bro, do you, do you love the dougie? Because when people hear your name, I even do it. They be like, shit, we got John Watson, oh shit.

• 7:07Channing Crowder?

  It's attached to you for the rest of your life.

• 7:09Speaker 03

  So like, it's to the point like, you know, you get older. You know, my, my son talk about like, he wanna watch my highlights and see me dance all the time. So they was watching Amazon at night, he was like, oh, we gotta run that back, we gotta run that back. I'm like, it's like I wanna do it at times, but like, I wanna, like, it's still a part of me, but like, fades away from me. But it's like, every time I go somewhere, it's like, if this their first time having me around, it gotta drop. So I try to give him a little sample to ease my way out of it.

• 7:31Channing Crowder?

  You gonna dougie the rest, you gotta dougie the rest of your damn life.

• 7:33Speaker 03

  I'm praying I do.

• 7:36Channing Crowder?

  You gotta just do the old man one though, you gotta hit it while you walk, you know what I'm saying?

• 7:40Speaker 03

  I gotta walk out the way, like you said, walk out the set, yeah, just walk out set.

• 7:44Fred Taylor?

  How has your view of the game changed since you're analyzing it versus playing it?

• 7:48Speaker 03

  It's been the same, it's just like, it's hard to understand, y'all probably can look at the perspective of watching the NFL. The game has changed and evolved so much. Like, when y'all first probably watched the NBA, it was more physical, you can do other things. Now it's like guys are more skilled, they want more threes, there's no real defense, they want more points. So it's like, for me, I'm like, ooh, if I came in this era, I'd probably get like 30, and I don't care for scoring. I was more so, can I get my teammates involved, take care of my teammates? I knew if I got those guys going early, the game was easier for me. But now it's like, I don't think a lot of these records gonna stay for long. You know what I mean, like somebody asked me the other day, do you think KD can finish top five or can James crack to top five?

• 8:28Speaker 03

  I'm like, for sure, like James still averaging like 27, KD's been averaging 25 for the last, what, 14 years? Shooting 50% from the field, so the game is still, I look at it the same. It is for me, and probably y'all can look at it like this, when I watch a point guard, I see somebody, I'm like, I would do something differently, so I have to take my mindset of how I think basketball and play, out of and let these guys be who they gonna be.

• 8:50Channing Crowder?

  You were so athletic, like it looked like you was just out there playing ball, like you was in the backyard.

• 8:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:57Channing Crowder?

  Like, did you maximize your talent? Did you really lock in? Cause some dudes be technicians. When we walked, you walk up the court, we were like, oh, that's little cuz that know the ball, watch this, watch him, watch him, watch him, watch him. Did you maximize your talent?

• 9:10Speaker 03

  I think later on I did, you know what I mean? Early on, I mean, so young and so gifted, thank God for that ability, I really didn't have to work on my skillset. And it really wasn't no big time trainers like that coming up where I was, so it was more so, I played pickup. Like Michael Jordan said in his thing, in his laws of his contract, I could play basketball wherever I was at. That's how I grew up, like we played basketball wherever. It was do your homework, go outside, play, it really wasn't too much training. These guys, they don't have a lot of training, skillset, like guys in 3rd grade, 4th grade are ranked the best player in the country and they got trainers. I wish we had that, like I tell my nephew all the time, like if I had what you had, I'd probably be at a different level, but we just didn't have that. I just played, so when I got to the league, got around Gilbert Arenas, got around Shenkase, those guys, I understood what working out really was, like how do you get better?

• 9:54Speaker 03

  You can't just play all off athleticism your whole career. So I think I could have, but like a lot of times, probably like my 5th year or 6th year in the league was my first summer working out without having an injury. Of dealing with something, you know, it's always like, damn, I wanna get better today, like can I do this? But my body like, nah, you gotta relax. But for me as a young player, like I tell you this, my rookie year, I had a left front injury, sprained my foot. The first real injury I ever had in my career, and I was like, man, I can come back in 3 weeks. It's supposed to be 8 week timetable, but you know, as a young player, they like, okay, go do you. Comeback first game, I couldn't even run. I don't even know why I was out there. Didn't score the first half. Then I was like, man, I just gotta figure it out. But I knew I wasn't supposed to be out there. So that probably hurt me more in my career, playing through things I shouldn't have played through. But my favorite player was Allen Iverson growing up.

• 10:39Speaker 03

  So his mindset, if it ain't broke, go out there and play. And that's how I looked at it. So that's the only thing I would look back at of what I've done in my career.

• 10:47Ryan Clark?

  The bag question or conversation has been a conversation. You know, I am unapologetically a Michael Jordan fanatic. Right? He's the best. He's the greatest player I've ever seen play basketball. But when you were speaking about the fact that these younger kids have trainers now, they're taking things that you would do naturally, right? They'll watch a video. You hit somebody with a cross, a step back hesi, and you drive. And there will be a trainer set out cones and be like, hey, this is, watch this play by John, and we're gonna do stuff like that. Like, that makes it so different. When you hear things like MJ didn't have a bag compared to, I guess, the guys today,

• 11:29Ryan Clark?

  what is the way you sort of comprehend that? Where you could communicate what basketball people are trying to say with that statement?

• 11:38Speaker 03

  I don't think people really understand what a bag is. A bag is like Kyrie Irving. That's a bag, you know what I mean? He got every handle trick in the book. Like, you might watch film like, oh, I'm gonna stop this move. Don't even watch film with him. He has a counter for a counter for a counter. That's a bag. But like, you gotta have some type of bag to be able to get to get buckets, you know what I mean? Like LeBron, like, he don't really have a crazy handle bag, but he's physical, he's athletic, he's strong. Once he get even with you, you out the picture, you know what I mean? So he crossed people up here and there. But I think people take the bag as like a Jamal Crawford, a Jason Williams, a Kyrie Irving, Steph Curry. Like, those guys have a serious bag of handles. You don't have to have a dope bag to get buckets. LeBron's the all-time leading scorer with no bag, as they say, right? How you get it done? Skill set, knowing how to play the right way.

• 12:22Ryan Clark?

  I understand.

• 12:23Speaker 03

  Use your mind, use your ability, get to your points, get to your spots and do what you gotta do to score. So, bag is, I think, like, you gotta go look at somebody that's a ball handler. That's really, really having a bag.

• 12:33Ryan Clark?

  It also feels like the, the people you named, I wouldn't put in the upper echelon of athletically talented basketball players I've seen. And like, no disrespect to them, right? Like, you always said in the conversation about Kyrie, if he was 6'6", he'd be the best player in basketball. Also, if he was 6'6", he wouldn't have to do all this to shoot a layup.

• 12:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure.

• 12:53Ryan Clark?

  Right, and so it's all those different things. When you look at somebody, because I'm, I love basketball, I'm excited. When you look at somebody like an SGA though, who just always seems to get to his spot. That's a bag to me. When you think, when you see a guy like an SGA play and you think about your career as well, what is it that's so impressive about a player like him?

• 13:13Speaker 03

  I think for one is he mastered. Like, you know what I mean? The art of the game now, if you know it, is what? You wanna get a 72, 83s up in the basketball game. It's not reality of basketball. It's just what the era we live in now wants to see. So, you know what I mean? So, you got some guys that might get 10 shots at a basketball game, right? Why is all 10 of his shots 3s? He's not a good 3-point shooter. That's what the team want him to do. That's what the analytics wants you to do. S.J. has mastered, I don't care about shooting 3s. My bread and butter is getting to this mid-range, getting to the rim. You can't stop me. I'm gonna give you a shoulder bump. I'm gonna give you a fadeaway. He mastered fadeaways. He mastered everything he needed. But if you watched him, he developed. Like, he got better and better. And he got to a situation where they're like, you know what? You are our franchise guy. Be the leader, bring all these other young guys around us.

• 13:57Speaker 03

  And it's gonna be scary for the league because they're only getting better and better. I told somebody, like, A.J. Mitchell come off the bench, right? Last year was his rookie year, he averaged like 6 points. This year he's averaging 14. But Jalen Williams had a wrist injury. He didn't have to rush, he didn't have to rush back. Why? Because A.J. Mitchell was averaging 17 while he was out. So, you don't really see a team where you could take a, a star player or one of their best players and send them out, which were one of the best 2-way guys in the league, don't have them for 24 first game, and you still what? 24 and 2? Like, come on. Like, make it make sense. Like, the Warriors team we talked about, they said they was tired because they was chasing that record. These guys not even chasing it. It's just naturally happening. I think they just had their first starting lineup for the first time in the cup. A ball season, they only 24 and 2 like. So S.J. is just great, he's special, he gonna get to his spots.

• 14:41Speaker 03

  It don't matter, everybody say it's foul baiting. But he don't lead the league in free throw shooting. Yeah. You might hate it, you might not like to watch it. But he's developed, he stays in his mindset, like what he say, my life is consistent. Everything I do is consistent, so.

• 14:53Channing Crowder?

  Well, Chris, it is boring basketball. Cause uh, yo, what's the big boy in them? That shit is boring to watch. You would, I ask it because you were exciting to watch.

• 15:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:03Channing Crowder?

  You go out there and yap yap yap a bitch, uh, and do the little back.

• 15:05Speaker 03

  So like, so like, you basically, you love to see Anthony Edwards, Ja Morant, those guys in sight. But to this new world we live in, the era don't care about that.

• 15:13Channing Crowder?

  You can't enjoy watching Yoko's old ass shit.

• 15:16Speaker 03

  I'm not saying I enjoy, listen, I say this all the time, and it's hard for me to say because people are like, oh, you hate him, or you mad. I'm not mad at nobody, I'm happy for whatever anybody has going in their career, what they doing in the league. It's just not the basketball I grew up watching or the basketball I played in that era. Like, if you telling me you couldn't touch me now, when I was in my prime, or let me be able to go open floor with all shooters around me, I would have a feel that, you would get more highlights from me. Yeah. I was doing this with two bigs who's in the paint. Mm-hmm. So, imagine if you P D Rose. You know what I mean, these are the conversations I have with people, and I'm like, I'm not hating nobody, knocking nobody, but no, basketball is not exciting to watch. I still watch it, cause I just love the game so much and it's a part of my job. And I got several guys I love to watch play, but you don't get all the highlights and excitement that you used to see back in the day.

• 16:01Fred Taylor?

  They hired you for a reason, your analysis, just hearing you talk the game, I think it's super dope. Right, right, so it's a reason why they hired you, I think you're gonna be great. We just recently had Kenyon Martin on the show, another former first overall pick. But going back to 2010, your draft night, like what was going through your mind? Was it, he said it was relief for him. Was it confidence for you, fear, excitement, relief?

• 16:27Speaker 03

  To be is all of above because kind of since my senior year of high school, they're like, "All right, you gonna be number one pick." I mean, so.

• 16:33Fred Taylor?

  Since your senior year?

• 16:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, since my senior year. So, but the funny part is you got like, it's always like this and it always comes from your hometown. Nobody never knows why, but I've had people like, "Oh, he gonna, he ain't gonna do nothing. He gonna go to school, be there two, three years, four years." Not paying out, okay, that's more motivation for me. I know how good I could be. I know what situation I'm going to. Coach Cal is the perfect coach for me. I watched Derrick Rose go do his thing. I watched Tyreke Gabe do his thing. If you're a guard that's trying to be one of them go do it, this is where you go. Yep. So I was, "All right, let me prove everybody wrong." So big games after big games and I was like, "All right." Draft night was amazing for me because my mom is my best friend, my biggest supporter. Funny part is she would never be in my ga-- she would come in the games and by like fourth quarter, she gotta go outside that door. Like, "I can't watch it, it's too nerve wracking." She don't want to see it.

• 17:18Speaker 03

  So her birthday was June 21st, so she picked my suit out. And draft, draft night was June 24th. So that's all it was for me. Like making my mom proud, seeing her sacrifice, worked three jobs. You know, my dad passed away when I was nine. Uh, sometimes her not paying a light bill for me to go on AAU tournaments. And she didn't know, this is 11, 12, 13 year old kid. I might not go to the NBA, you know, you just never know. But I'm gonna give my son everything and a platform to give him an opportunity. So that was all good for me. Like it was exciting to see her smile. And I got a video saved, I watch it all the time, it's funny as hell. And it was like, "They interviewed me, they go talk to her, she do not like cameras." And they was like, "Well, your family's life just changed, what do you want to say?" She was just like breaking down by the car like, "I just don't know how to say thank you."

• 18:00Speaker 03

  And for me, I watch that video often because it's like, and I always ask my assistant, I always ask my team, I ask everybody around, I'm like, "Did I do enough?" Cause she's not here no more. I'm like, "Did I do enough?" And they always like, "You did more than enough." So for me to watch that video and then hear them tell me that, and I see it in my kids, you know, that draft night was everything for me.

• 18:18Ryan Clark?

  How are you with your mother's passing now? I know that was extremely difficult for you, kind of detailed it in Players Tribune.

• 18:27Speaker 03

  Uh, it was tough. It was like.

• 18:30Speaker 03

  You know, it's like an African American man, we always feel like our pride is too big. Like, we don't need help. I don't need to ask for no help. I can get through everything through myself, through life, and I had to sit there and be like, "Yo, I need help." Like, I'm not bigger than nobody, I'm not better than nobody, and don't make you no weaker as a man. It makes you stronger to know I can lean on somebody. And through that phase, it was tough, you gotta think. 2018, I tear my Achilles. I'm on probably the top two, top three best players in the East at that time. Tear my Achilles, my first son is born, now I know my mom has breast cancer, you know what I mean? She's going through this phase. Then my mom passed, then my grandma ended up passing like a year or two later, then my second son is born, then I get traded from DC where it was home, where I was being for 10 years, like, basically raised me as

• 19:15Speaker 03

  a kid with no tattoos, no facial hair, no family, like, no kids, none of that, till, like, damn, everything hit me at once. Like, why? In four years, I get all this at once. And I was sitting back and I was like, "You're bigger than this, you're better than this." So, I gotta give a shout out to Pastor Bader, who was a guy that ran our chapel, that was with our team, and through that whole phase, he came to me, his mom kind of was similar. He was like, "Go have a conversation with her. Like, see if she tired, see if she ready to be at peace." And I went and had a conversation, I'm like, "Are you tired?" She was like, "I lived a great life. Like, I'm just tired of hurting, tired of fighting." And I see my mom, like, go from getting up at 5:00 a.m., going to TJ Maxx and Marshalls to she just can't do it no more. And I had that conversation. It made it a little bit easier to deal with the past, you know what I mean? It was still tough, and I had to

• 19:59Speaker 03

  find the right people and the right team to be around me. But, once I figured it out, it was like, a little easier. But I know she's smiling down because everything I'm doing is going in a positive way, and she always told me, "Be known as a better person, not just a great basketball player."

• 20:12Channing Crowder?

  How did it feel and how did it change you? Because a lot of dude, we talk to a lot of successful people.

• 20:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:17Channing Crowder?

  You're a very successful dude. You were stupid at basketball. Won a lot of money off of you. I don't know your shit, though, because you're rich. But, no, no, I'm like, but, like, think about that, because we talk to people that you can't, things you can't control, because I've had passes in my life. My father just passed last May. And I'm sitting there, and I'm watching, I'm, you're watching them die, pretty much.

• 20:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:41Channing Crowder?

  And you got the investments, you got all this, you got the Airbnbs, you got that. You can't solve that.

• 20:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:59Speaker 00

  Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Someaglutide injection 2.4 milligrams a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOVIE or visit Wegovy.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?

• 21:18Channing Crowder?

  With everything you've done, how was that being so successful, being so, being so wealthy and all that? And the people in your life you care about the most? And that's the thing that got me, like, to hell with all this, bro. Like, I wanna, man, let me pay cancer off.

• 21:33Speaker 03

  You basically said the word, took the word right out of my mouth. Like, I didn't give a fuck no more. Like, nothing really mattered because the person that was my best friend and everything I did and gave the world to for basketball was right there, gone, taken away from me. So that let me know to cherish every moment you get with a person. You can't control what goes on, you know what I mean? Just like I couldn't control injuries that went on with my career. You can't control if somebody get diagnosed with anything or you lose them. So like I always said, like now, I just very big on just trying to spend as much time with my kids, my family, the people that's generally there for me. Because during that time, my mom was like, you're gonna lose a lot of people close to you because you don't do the same stuff you used to do. Like, I ain't go out like I used to. I didn't do this no more.

• 22:16Speaker 03

  And I'm like, people I was kicking away was like, damn, I ain't doing this. So my mom said, y'all not coming around, you not checking on me. So I realized, like, fuck them. Like, it don't mean nothing because everything, my whole world was my mom, you know what I mean? So losing that, now it turn into my two boys. And that's my world, like, be there for them. Like, that's the reason why, like, I couldn't take myself away from here. I gotta be here for them. Like, that's a, that's a selfish act to take yourself away. And if you look at my youngest son, he looks just like me and my mom. My oldest son don't look like me, but he act just like me. He's an athlete. So for me, if you're not there for, you're not worried about what my boys are doing and my next shot in life, I don't got no worries for you. How close did you get, John, to possibly making that decision to where your boys saved you? Super close, super close.

• 23:01Speaker 03

  Like, it's so crazy because I'm talking to my team, my family, every day. And like, for me, I try to tell people, like, some of the acts I did during that phase, I was going outside just to try to find love, find comfort. Like, oh, let me go outside and do this, or let me go hang and do this, like... I ain't had nobody to talk to. I didn't trust talking to nobody. I felt like, man, I'm an African American man. I'm strong enough. I can get through anything by myself, which I've always basically did my whole life. And having pastor battle on my side and then just realize like, you selfish as hell. You know what I mean? Because most of the time, you know, some people die at acts that you can't control, of being outside in the streets or going to jail for life. And you're taking yourself away from your kids. You don't get to see them grow. I didn't want to do that. So it was close, but.

• 23:43Ryan Clark?

  I love that.

• 23:44Speaker 03

  Just praying and talking to my pastor and they're just fighting. And I always tell people, like, one of my friends, like, man, I don't think nobody can help. Mental health is serious. It's more serious than what people think and it's just as important as physical health. And I was like, bro, you think nobody can help you, but it can help you. Like, you just got to find the right person or the right people that will listen. And sometimes you talking to somebody, you might be like, man, I ain't gonna tell them none of my deep secrets. They might say some shit and you just all of a sudden just get to free flowing just like, damn, I don't even supposed to be telling them this. That's how you know you found somebody you're comfortable with and keeping your secrets there.

• 24:17Fred Taylor?

  What did you learn about vulnerability that you wish, like, other people would understand?

• 24:21Speaker 03

  Well, most importantly, like I told them, like, don't be scared to lean on nobody. I mean, don't be scared to lean on nobody. It's important to ask for help. I mean, if I don't say, if I don't say those words right there, yo, I need help. I'm not here today to do this interview. I can't talk to y'all. I don't get to see my kids graduate kindergarten or play sports or figure out what their next role in life is. You know what I mean? Like, I don't force my kids to play basketball. They just ask. First sport they love is soccer and then it's flag football. Like, just enjoy, no pressure to do what I did. That's why I didn't want to name my kids a junior. Build your own name. You know what I mean? You gonna have my last name, but build your own name. But don't be scared to ask for help. It's okay to sit down and ask for help. You don't feel no weaker and make you stronger. And you got other adversity in life you can get through.

• 25:01Ryan Clark?

  I have a question, man. Because we have a crazy Dallas Cowboys fan here, right? So tell me what it was like, though. Because I want to talk about something happier. Tell me what it was like at the correspondence dinner when your mama got to meet Tony Romo.

• 25:15Speaker 03

  For one, I was a photographer that whole night, first of all. We went to the Wild Correspondent, which was dope because. A lot of things like, at the time, they don't have a situation, they don't have a wife, didn't have a girlfriend, anything like that, so like, that's my significant other to go everywhere. That's big events for me. Man, she met Phil, I had a science guy, she met Tony Romo, and she was like, "Oh, you just don't know. You better take this damn picture with me." And I'm like, "Ma, I'm not taking all these pictures." I basically was the camera guy the whole night. But it was dope for me because like, I'm like, "Nell, you enjoy the spotlight." You gave me the opportunity and the platform to be your son, to be in this spotlight. The sacrifices you made for me to play, to reach this level, like, and all the things she did, I might not, never made it to the end, but just imagine how many people, parents make sacrifices, they don't make it to the best, the highest level.

• 26:00Speaker 03

  We just don't know, you just hope. For me, it was dope. She was like, "Man, I'm framing this picture, I'm doing whatever I wanted." You couldn't tell her shit. Couldn't tell her nothing, I'm telling you.

• 26:08Channing Crowder?

  What was it like when she got to meet the Obamas?

• 26:10Speaker 03

  Oh, she was, it was on top of the world. Like, anything she did like that, and then like, just being in DC, you know, nation's capital.

• 26:16Channing Crowder?

  That's awesome.

• 26:16Speaker 03

  Sitting courtside, being at the games, oh, she's like, "Man, this is the best of the world," so...

• 26:21Channing Crowder?

  That's beautiful.

• 26:21Speaker 03

  That's all that really mattered for me, is putting a smile on her face.

• 26:24Channing Crowder?

  Are you an introvert that had, was forced through basketball to be an extrovert? Because you don't seem like, I tell people all the time when I meet them, I'm like, "I thought you was gonna walk in loud as shit and you snuck up behind me." Did you, are you forced to be the center of the room?

• 26:40Speaker 03

  I'm not, I don't say I was forced. It's like, I think I have the spotlight for it, I have the energy for it. I feel comfortable in every room I walk in, I feel like, you got a billion dollars, I'm still the top dog in that room. That's just how I was always raised and built. Basketball got me out of my shell. Like, I never was a dancer growing up, like, in high school, you couldn't get me to dance, you couldn't even do nothing. And then I think like, just a point, like, my first couple of years in the league, I never went outside, I never did nothing. Then all my homeboys graduated college, and I'm like, "Bro, I'm young, successful, in a city like DC, chocolate city, you know how that can get." I'm like, "I'm gonna go outside a little bit." And I had some fun, but I'm more laid back and chill, like, me to myself.

• 27:17Channing Crowder?

  I was just in DC last weekend.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  I go back this weekend.

• 27:21Channing Crowder?

  You been high with homecoming?

• 27:23Speaker 03

  I was high with homecoming.

• 27:28Speaker 03

  I used to go down, I ain't Howard Homecoming, I'm just joking. But no, I used to go to that McDonald's right up there. And I parked like all four of my cars. And then, you know, they got the big lot on the side where everybody, I put the Sprinter, I open the doors and play the music loud. And you know, everybody's gonna grab and tell you I'm franchise of DC. What the hell are you doing at Howard Homecoming? I'm 19, 20 years old, I'm still supposed to be in college. So I'm coming to the college parties.

• 27:50Ryan Clark?

  That makes me think about, you know, you talk about wearing and ones. You grew up with a single mother. You know, you talked about sometimes for AAU to be paid for, a bill might not get paid. You go from wearing and ones and all those things to being the number one overall pick. The fame that comes with it, the money that comes with it, being in a place like DC. What were some of the tougher adjustments from just being John Wall, who could move around at Kentucky and try to take his team to the Elite Eight? And then now being the face of a franchise?

• 28:25Speaker 03

  I think it started in high school, to be honest with you. My junior years, like, I couldn't do nothing. Like, I had a black little Altima 10s, they was 20s, but they was 10s. I kept them clean though.

• 28:33Speaker 07

  Kept them clean though?

• 28:35Speaker 03

  It really, let me tell you a story about that. It was in my car, my stepdad, at the time I had a stepdad, shout out to him. He helped us out a lot through the whole process of growing up. But he had got like a hundred from his job. And it had a butterfly on the front window. And I told him, I drove to school the first time, I said, "Mom, we gotta switch." Like, I can't be pulling up with no butterfly on my window. So I took her Altima one day going to school. She was pissed. And she just let me keep it, so I put a little system in it. But since my junior year, I couldn't go nowhere. Like, every time I drove my car, they like, "We know it's you. What are you doing?" Only good thing was really no camera phones back then at that time. It was like, it was getting involved, but it wasn't like, social media wasn't there. But I couldn't do nothing, but it was fun, excitement. Like, you know how you put your headphones on? And you like, you think you got them loud, so you're not hearing nobody. But I only got one on, on for real. So I could hear what they saying when you walking.

• 29:20Speaker 03

  Oh, there he go, that guy. And that just give you that motivation, but college, I couldn't do shit.

• 29:25Ryan Clark?

  Really?

• 29:26Speaker 03

  No! Like, for me, to where you met me at, kinda was like, I Lodge and where the private facility was. It's a street. It'd be like a hundred cars out there. We couldn't walk to practice. You gotta think Kentucky love basketball horses. That's it. Ain't nothing else.

• 29:39Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 29:40Speaker 03

  Like, we are an NBA team for them. So, we had to say golf carts in class. Then we was getting chased from class. It was fun, though. It was like just being in that moment, like you enjoy that college experience. And I always tell a kid, if you can enjoy college, do it. If it's one year, two years, it's the best in the world. But then going to DC, I'm like, bro, I'm 19, about to be 20. I don't know what the fuck to do.

• 30:00Speaker 03

  I'm the face of a franchise now. Like, and the crazy part, my dad's from DC, so I'm like, God, work in mysterious ways.

• 30:04Ryan Clark?

  Wow.

• 30:05Speaker 03

  My family's three and a half hours, four hours away. So, they could drive up, which was a gift and a curse. I look downstairs, there might be 20 cars downstairs, like, ho, y'all can't come here. I got a condo. It's only three bedrooms. I can't fit all y'all in here.

• 30:16Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 30:16Speaker 03

  It was difficult. It was tough at the time, but I embraced it. I think it made me who I am. I mean, the city adapted me. I adapted to the city, and I always call it like my second home.

• 30:24Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 30:25Speaker 03

  I've always loved DC. I always wanted to go back. So, get the opportunity to work with Monumental Sports and be a part of the franchise again is a full circle blessing for me.

• 30:32Ryan Clark?

  Do you root against Joe Missoula? Joe Missoula and, uh...

• 30:35Speaker 03

  Nah, I respect Joe Missoula. I still mad about that damn game, though. Like, his career, I was eight. He came out and cooked. He was cooking you that game, man. He gonna lie. He had 17. They was like, man, he can't shoot. Let him shoot. He come out hitting threes. I'm like, man, this gotta be the game. Like, we started 0-for-27 from three. And I know everybody in their bracket had us winning. We would, but our problem was, we were so amped up to play Duke. Like, we didn't overlook West Virginia, but we was like, man, we got them. We can beat them. We wanted to play Duke bad because Coach K had never played Coach K. We wanted to get that game. And West Virginia gave us a boot out of there, and I was mad. Shout out John Flowers. He did the John Wall dance after they won. So, I remember the year, next year later, shout out DeAndre Liggins and Brandon Knight, and them, they got revenge for me.

• 31:13Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 31:14Speaker 03

  They beat him. My boy, DeAndre Liggins, said, "Do the John Wall dance now. Do the John Wall dance now." So, he got a little get back for me.

• 31:20Fred Taylor?

  That's crazy. Ay, yo, last year, we saw a lot of guys pop their Achilles. You, I know, right? You had yours.

• 31:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:27Fred Taylor?

  And that sort of changed the trajectory of, of your career.

• 31:29Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:30Fred Taylor?

  Like, at the time, like, what was your biggest fears? Was it like... Wondering if you would come back the same, losing your identity that you built? Or?

• 31:39Speaker 03

  It was too, because let me explain to you, like, I don't think a lot of people really know. I really never really tore mine like all these other guys did. So I had a bone spur. It's like two inches long in my Achilles. And I had one in my knee at the same time, both on my left side. So it's crazy, because the year 2016, 2017, I had double knee surgery, but I had to just scope my right knee. But took the bone spur out, isn't it? I'm gonna show y'all a picture afterward. You're gonna be like, no, I played with this for like six, seven years. So I go to the doctor, like, how the hell you play with this? I'm like, I just had, they told me it was just tendonitis. So I'm just pain tolerant, I'm going through it. So they go take, they lift my Achilles up, take the bone spur out. And he had to put my Achilles back, which now is weak. So I'm in my walking boot, and then I have my scooter, it gets caught on the carpet. And I fall over, and it kind of like partially tear. Everybody tell me I fell in the shower, I ain't fall in no shower.

• 32:23Speaker 03

  I got this, in my shower I had a tear, I could sit down, so I was sitting in the shower, I wasn't standing up. But my scooter got caught, fell, so I go, go to get the thing off, and they like, take the stitches out, they like, I wake up, they're like, yo, we gotta go back again. What you mean you gotta go back again? Oh, you tore your Achilles? What the hell? So I go through that phase again. Mind you, a lot of people don't even know, I had four infections. So last infection, they go to Baltimore, they're like, we throw these red bees in there. Like, this is the last opportunity we got to try to kill the infection, if not, you gotta amputate your foot. So for me, it's not even about basketball anymore. It's about life, like, can I run around, play with my kids? Can I be able to walk, do those things? So once I finally got past that, I was like, okay, cool. I knew I can get back to basketball, because I know the work I put in through my rehab.

• 33:06Speaker 03

  And I always ask somebody, and tell them, your first three months of any surgery, anything, those are the key to you getting back to what you want to be. So that part wasn't a factor. I came back more athletic than I was before I left. It was just getting through that infection and that scare part that a lot of people didn't know. What happened with the infection? Because I had 17 knee surgeries. You had four infections. It was like one, but it wouldn't go away. So like, I tried like four different things, and I'm like, bro, we gotta figure something out. Like, you can't cut my foot off. Yeah, you can't lose a foot. But that's all I was worried about. Like, I'm even like, fuck basketball, like, just get me to be able to walk. Yeah, and one thing you said, you came back after the injuries more athletic? Yeah. I'm watching. Yeah. I'm not talking about your opinion, I'm talking about us watching from afar.

• 33:47Channing Crowder?

  You was not more athletic when you came back, bro.

• 33:50Speaker 03

  I was.

• 33:50Ryan Clark?

  This man argue about everything.

• 33:52Channing Crowder?

  I'm just saying, like.

• 33:54Speaker 03

  Bro, if I showed you what I was doing eight months like after that, you would be like, yeah, you was. I was doing the same shit I was doing.

• 34:01Channing Crowder?

  That, the high flying.

• 34:04Speaker 03

  Let me tell you something. Now, I don't have a bone spirit I'm playing through. I don't have that. I was playing through that every night. So like, so much rehab I had to do and, you know, treatment before the game. I didn't have to do that no more. It was gone. That relief was gone. But see, you didn't get this shit because it was COVID hit. Then I got traded to the Rockets.

• 34:20Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 34:20Speaker 03

  And then you're not watching. I mean, you ain't got no TV games for real like that no more.

• 34:23Channing Crowder?

  Yeah. And even that, I could ask that too. When the COVID thing, the story is that you, you didn't want to go to the bubble.

• 34:30Speaker 03

  Why? Why would I come back for eight games?

• 34:32Channing Crowder?

  Let me know what happened in the bubble.

• 34:33Speaker 03

  I'm gonna tell you. I was going, for sure, before the bubble came out. I was supposed to come back like January. Cool. They was like, okay, we only got eight games in the bubble. We not making the playoffs. You remember? There's only certain teams you already know. Why would I waste my return for the bubble for eight games? I love the game, but why would I waste my bubble? Again, my kids can't see me play. No fans. I'm like, I'm gonna wait till the next year. And I wanted to do it in front of the fans in DC.

• 34:56Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 34:56Speaker 03

  It just didn't happen like that. I got traded, it happened in Houston. But my kids finally got the opportunity to see me play. And people, yeah, I came back averaging 21 and 7. Yeah, I remember that.

• 35:04Channing Crowder?

  You went triple double. Was that the first game?

• 35:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:07Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 35:07Ryan Clark?

  To you, what is like your favorite NBA game? There's the, uh, the Maya's game, which is obviously about also what you did post-game and dedicating that game to her. Uh, I think, what is it? 52, 53 against Orlando?

• 35:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, 52, yeah.

• 35:22Ryan Clark?

  Uh, the three-pointer over Avery Bradley?

• 35:25Speaker 03

  Boston.

• 35:25Ryan Clark?

  In game six?

• 35:26Speaker 03

  Game six, 27.

• 35:27Ryan Clark?

  What would be like, you feel like, is there a seminal NBA?

• 35:32Speaker 03

  Like solidify me? Or just like a big moment for you?

• 35:35Ryan Clark?

  The, the moment that you remember the most, that you felt the most love of? Or maybe even going back to DC and getting the tribute video?

• 35:43Speaker 03

  Ha, that's crazy you say that. I would say that one, the tribute video. I think that was more than anything because the city know how much I love there, how much I love the city, how much they love me back. And I had opportunity with so many people I connected with and worked with that they didn't have to work that day that worked in the stadium. And also the people that like worked at my house, did all those type of things. I was able to buy all them tickets. And just to, you know what I mean, get that standing ovation, like I wore pink and white shoes for breast cancer for my mom. The Kobe shoes. So just to get that standing ovation and then to be in a jersey that I always wanted to wear was number 11, which was retired by Elvin Hayes, I couldn't wear it there. Then just turn around, making that shot and saying it's still my city. And for me, for a moment, I forget I'm on the other team now.

• 36:26Speaker 03

  Because everybody standing up, I'm looking at the guy right here, want to shake my hand. I'm standing there by the runner, like it was good. So just seeing that moment and then getting the win. Looking over at the seats where my mom usually would be sitting there and she would have been there in that moment. Only thing I miss was my boys been there. They couldn't be there, but that's the only thing, other than that. After the game, I had probably like 100 people in the stands. I'm talking about from my homeboys, for everything that that was just a surreal moment for me, so. That was like a closing chapter, like you know what, I can let this go. Like I'm still devastated I left here, but to get this closing chapter I wanted because I went back before that with the Rockets, but it was like COVID, so it really wasn't no really fans in there like that. So it was like bittersweet, not the same. So I kind of had like a dinner and met a couple of people, but that right there was like be my solidified moment.

• 37:11Ryan Clark?

  What was, what was, what caused, I guess, the most hurt about being traded from DC for?

• 37:19Speaker 03

  Cause the most hurt, a little bit on myself. I mean, some of the antics and acts I did, but that goes back to what I was saying when I was in a dark place and just trying to find love, just trying to go outside and have fun and do certain things and having certain people around that you think is there for you or inviting people around that shouldn't be around. You know, I mean, we all make mistakes. I'm not perfect. So I look back and say 50% of it was me. The other 50%, I'd be like, damn, why this? Like at least let me get one year back here and then trade me if you want. You know what I mean, like let me get the moment to play in front of these fans one more time in a Wizards jersey. That's one thing I wish I had the opportunity to do, it didn't happen. But that's really it. Outside that, I feel like, I mean, me owning up to what I did and the kind of mistakes I made. And at first you don't want to deal with it, but the most hurt part was.

• 38:05Speaker 03

  I was like, don't do it like, right here, don't like, don't like, let me go do media day and this be the last day I put on jersey. And it's funny fact that I'm in my car that we pack, and training camp's the next day. And I'm just like, I know I ain't gonna make it to training camp. I'm telling my sister and she like, nah, you is. I'm like, I just, I just don't feel it. I just got a feeling. You know how you just know something, you just got a feeling? Then a call happened, seven, I still got it in my phone, same time, same day, everything. And we just traded to the Rockets, come across a tick, I'm like, damn. I go back there, tell her, she ain't even trying to hear, like, I don't wanna hear that, like, whatever. Like, them bags gotta go to somewhere else.

• 38:37Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 38:37Speaker 03

  And all the Rockets people called, they like, we got a jet at 12 for you. I'm like, alright, shit, this, this is what, but it's kind of crazy because my mom was like, you need a new champion, you need a new space, you need a new face. But I'm like, no, I don't, like, this is all I know, this is a city I wanna play for one team, win and try to win a championship, do everything here. So all that happened, but I think I shocked a lot of people when, the next morning, I went to the arena and said my goodbyes to everybody. Even though I was mad, even though I was bitter.

• 39:02Ryan Clark?

  Was it hard to go to the arena?

• 39:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was hard as hell. Because it's like, this is all I know, like, DC is all I known since a kid. Like, to be raised here, to start getting tattoos, to see my mom be here, to have my first son here, to my mom go through breast cancer, chemo, and all this here, like, I had, almost lost my foot here. I've done everything, I've played through every injury that I probably shouldn't have played of, for organization game, everything I had. And it's a part of a business, but at the time, I'm like, I don't get it, like, why me, like, why now? But I was, I'm bigger than that, like, let me go say my goodbyes, it's, it's a part of the game, and let it go.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 39:45Speaker 00

  Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Someaglutide injection, 2.4 milligrams a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?

• 40:04Channing Crowder?

  And I know what your assistant looked like when you said, she said, nah, you is. I know what your assistant looked like. Don't worry about it. She related to me. But no, man, it's one thing if you talk about John Wall, everybody say, they paid him to retire. That's the quote. I ain't gonna lie, bro. Like, if you look it up, they say they paid him to retire. Did they pay you to retire in Houston?

• 40:29Speaker 03

  Nah, they didn't pay me to retire. It's just, I'll tell you a funny story, man. It's like this. I haven't played basketball in two years, dealing with Achilles, then COVID hit. So I'm like, first year go by, you know what I mean, we winning a little bit to Marcus Cuddy to get there. James Harden was there, like Eric Gordon, all those guys. We ended up trading James away. Get Victor Oladipo, get Kevin Porter. So we just trying to figure out what they doing. So you kind of look at it like, okay, I know they going into a rebuilding process, you know what I mean? So going into the second year there, Coach Salas called me, like, come to Houston, whatever. All right, we want to bring you off the bench. You know what I mean? We might not play you as many minutes this year. Want you to take like the backup vet role. I'm like, hell, no. Like, I want to play. Like, I ain't played in two years. I just had a good year last year. I still want to try to like be that guy, because I know, once you like a star guy,

• 41:11Speaker 03

  and you start taking that backseat role of coming off the bench, that's basically like the end of your career. Like, you'll never be a starter again. I'm like, I'm not willing to do that. But I was still around the team, trying to help the young guys, that Jalen Green, KJ Martin, Christian Wood, Josh Christopher, just mentoring them, like being around them, Kevin Porter. And it was difficult because I knew I wanted to play. I knew I could help them and stuff like that. But it was just a different role, and the chapter that the organization was going in. And now, what they playing was, it playing out, working perfectly for them. You get Jalen Green, you get me, Thomas, you get Sagoon, all those guys. And then they're a team that's destined to be good in the West. But at the time, for me, I'm like, hell, no. I want to play. I ain't played in two years. So they didn't pay me to retire. They was like, okay. Now it's like, all right, I'm just working out. I'm not playing. Like, let me just go be home with my family. I'd rather be around my family and work out if I'm not going to be able to play. You know what I mean? And that's kind of how it went.

• 41:56Fred Taylor?

  You talk about being with your family, but even off the court, your foundation, right? And community work. What would you want young kids to take, you know, from your journey?

• 42:07Speaker 03

  Just perseverance. Don't ever give up. Don't ever quit. You know what I mean? It's gonna be highs and lows. Like I said, I was at the highest point of my career, just signed a max contract. All NBA team, top three player in the East to boom, hit rock bottom. And I got through it. You know what I mean? So, life is not gonna be easy. It's a lot of adversity. It's a lot of challenges. Have a great group of people around you. In my foundation, I just try to help like less fortunate parents, that single parent moms, kids that don't feel like they got an opportunity to make it out anywhere. And I try to tell them, I don't care if it's basketball, doctor, lawyer, whatever, police officer, whatever you want to be, just give a hundred and ten percent effort. You never know what can happen for you, what can go pay you away. Like I was always known in North Carolina as a

• 42:50Speaker 03

  young kid as one of the best players in the state. I didn't get a chance to get seen to the nation till my junior year, sophomore year. So, it don't never where it starts. Some people get the hype early, like if I'm from California, New York, or a place like that, you would have heard about me in sixth grade, but it just didn't happen like that. We are the hoop state though, don't forget that.

• 43:06Ryan Clark?

  Yes.

• 43:07Speaker 03

  We are the hoop state. But just don't quit. Just believe in your parents, believe in anything you want to do, bro. Just give it a hundred and ten percent effort. And that's what I do. Like, it's always gonna be challenges. Like this right now is a new challenge for me in the chapter of learning sports, analytics, and broadcasting. Like, I'll watch you a lot, you know what I mean? You get a lot of people like, oh, I don't like what he said or this. This is what my career, this is what I do. And like I tell my friends, I'm not up here to bash you or try to harm you. This is my career now. So, you have to respect this. How I pay my family bills. And if you can't respect that, then we don't have to be cool outside of this.

• 43:37Fred Taylor?

  Is that really how you pay your family bills, though?

• 43:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:40Fred Taylor?

  No. That's usually a chain of questions.

• 43:42Speaker 03

  No, it's not. I'm gonna tell you why I say that. You got plenty of bread, bro. Listen, listen. Hold on, but it don't matter about that because like, listen to this. The same lifestyle you live when you was playing, right? When you was making forty-seven million a year, you don't make that same amount of money. You still want to live the same life, right? Your kids still want to go to private school. They still want to do these type of things. I still have to work. So, I have to learn and say no to certain people. So, I had to tell my family, if I'm still working, I don't have to the rest of my life, why your ass can't get up and go work?

• 44:09Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, that's a fact.

• 44:10Speaker 03

  So that's why I say I still pay those bills because I still want to do certain things. No, I know he want to chime in because you know what he gonna say? You got a lot of shit over there. Bruh, I know. Nigga, you got 170 from 1 team. But you know, cut it in half. Yeah. I know. Okay, let's cut 170 in half. What's that? That's 176, 85, that's 85.

• 44:31Ryan Clark?

  Chan, we had this conversation with Odell.

• 44:32Speaker 03

  Now go buy your 10 million dollar house. What you in there? 75. I got quick math. Okay, I love math too. You want a chef the rest of your life, right? A chef? If you can't cook, I don't cook shit. I ain't never cooked a day in my life. How much you pay your chef? I come to the crib, I cook my ass off. See, go on, right? Can't get us started, right?

• 44:49Ryan Clark?

  Yo, listen, bro, we got Odell in trouble. I was trying to save you.

• 44:53Speaker 03

  Nah, you ain't getting me in trouble. I'm cool, I'm cool.

• 44:56Ryan Clark?

  Odell came on, talked about...

• 44:57Speaker 03

  Nah, I watched that one. I watched that one.

• 44:58Ryan Clark?

  He talked about the 100 million though, but I do believe, like what Fred's asking the question, like that is the point. It's not necessarily that this is the only way you can pay your family's bills.

• 45:08Speaker 03

  No, no, no, not the only way.

• 45:09Ryan Clark?

  If I want to continue to live a certain way, I'm going to work in order to be able to live that way, but also be okay on the back end if the bottom falls out. Like, that's the way you have to approach it. You said something earlier that I thought was very important, and I'd just like to get you to expound on it. You talked about realizing certain people weren't there for you the way you needed them to be.

• 45:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:33Ryan Clark?

  For these young, up and coming hoopers, or football players, or entertainers, who will get some of this immediate fame, be the star and those sort of things, how would you advise them to weed out the people that are there for them as opposed to the ones that aren't?

• 45:49Speaker 03

  Listen to the signs. There's always signs that people show you. And you could grow with them your whole life. You could do certain things. You be like, man, nah, that's not the type of person he is. I've known him for a long time. But I've always, remember my mom told me, like, don't let money change you. And money changes people at some times like. I had a person that was close to me back then was like, my mom was like, don't let money change. I'm like, I'm like, he like, shit, this gonna change me. I'm gonna go buy this and do that and do that. And it's like, for me, I more so care about taking care of my family, the people that's close to me. Like, when I be having my moment sometimes, can I call you and talk for two hours? Like, that's the person that really care for you. Or if I be like, you know what, bro? You wanna come be with me on this trip, you gotta pay your way. Pay your way? Are you gonna pay your way? You know what I mean? Or you be like, man, hell no, why you can't pay for me? Or you always looking for a handout, it's like, I had to realize that.

• 46:35Speaker 03

  Cause like my first, like you say, first max is what, five, four year eighty, five year eighty? That one really wasn't for me. That was for my people. Making sure they were straight. Then I'm like, okay, I got one seven, this is for me and my family now. This is for the future, this is for them to be good, this is for me to be able to live the way I wanna live. So, I always look at it like, the people I took care of around that time, probably eighty-five percent of them ain't around me no more. Wow.

• 46:59Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, that's, that's crazy. The first time I met you was coming out of the Epic Hotel in Miami. You was about to hop on the boat.

• 47:06Speaker 03

  I had probably like forty people with me.

• 47:08Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, ten, ten fifteen at least, at the minimum.

• 47:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, I had my crew with me, you know what I mean? And, and it's always love and I don't have nothing against them, I'm still cool with some of them. And it's not all about them, it's just about life. Like, some people go in different phases of their life where I had to realize like, when I went through that phase in twenty eighteen to about twenty twenty and I got traded and I was like, damn, nobody really was here for my mom, my mom was going through this and then I get traded and my phone ain't ringing the same. I can't do nothing for them. If I ain't doing nothing for them and benefiting for them. They not here. They not doing nothing for me, so I had to realize the fade away. So, I tell all the young guys now, it's like, y'all got bigger platforms, you know what I mean? Like, when we was coming, it was like, all right, bring your boys with you and make sure they straight, you know what I mean? And my boys went to college and did their things and stuff like that. And some of them are still doing their thing, but some of them just went different paths.

• 47:54Speaker 03

  But I think like, once you have a family. It grows. Like you like, okay, now I can't do everything I used to do. I have to go. And if you can't respect that. You weren't here for me anyway if you can't respect that though. Because if you love me, you love my family. Yeah, and I think we just, like, I think, like you said, like, when you're young and you getting the money and you having fun, you're outside. Like, even if you're a guy that don't really want to be outside, you're doing other things, taking trips, you're doing those things. And it's fun, it's the lifestyle, don't get me wrong, but at some point, you have to pivot and try to figure a way to maneuver and keep your, keep yourself above life.

• 48:25Channing Crowder?

  Well, they say, what's the out, you talking about the outside?

• 48:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:28Channing Crowder?

  I'm like, Bane, I tell people, I was born outside, you adopted outside.

• 48:32Speaker 03

  So, so, so, so, see, see, see, I was outside, but a different outside. I remember it was outside of Raleigh outside.

• 48:39Channing Crowder?

  Oh, he was in the woods?

• 48:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:41Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, we were, I'm from Atlanta.

• 48:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, Atlanta, Atlanta outside, outside for sure. I was outside, like, with Petey Pablo, taking his herd off, right? We was in that video outside.

• 48:50Channing Crowder?

  You was Petey Pablo outside?

• 48:51Speaker 03

  That's the video outside, like, we was in that video outside, that's the type of outside.

• 48:55Channing Crowder?

  Who was that, it was on one, two, what was that?

• 48:57Speaker 03

  One, two, three, four.

• 48:58Channing Crowder?

  No, Petey Pablo was with Ciara.

• 49:01Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, Mike, oh, you talking about that song, I didn't talk about. Let me see who one, two, seven? Yeah, I had a song you talking about.

• 49:06Channing Crowder?

  I'm saying, we haven't been getting the bars, all I see. But, but I want to ask some, I want to, I want to ask you this. Empowering homeboys, though, because that's somebody, I'll say LeBron's probably the best one at it. Where he took his homeboys that wanted to do something, tried to get them, I, I'll, I'll say I've struggled with empowering homeboys.

• 49:21Speaker 03

  It's a conversation I have, right? Bron homeboys is what? Is basketball team. Those is real. Homeboys he grew up with his whole life. You know what I mean? I think Mav might be the only one that he kind of grew up with more, you got to think like. Matt Rich. Rich, he met Rich by selling jerseys and stuff like that. He met Randy, because Randy, I think, if I'm not mistaken, was the guy that was selling phones and stuff at the time, so that's a little different, because they already had their way, even they was a little older. But his homeboys, they grew up in high school, they still are straight and living the life they way, but they did it in their way. So it's like, yeah, but like, I'm talking about homeboys we grew up with from like, middle school and high school. Like, you can empower them, but at the same time, they got to want it for theirself. Yeah, yeah. Like, I could put you in position to be my manager, you could be with this financial advisor and work under him and then pave your way, but do you want it? Like, you might be a guy.

• 50:06Speaker 03

  You know what, I'm in the fashion, okay, I'mma set you up with a Don T or Jared Lorenzo or one of those guys, or shout out, rest in peace Virgil, or a guy like Virgil, I'm like, okay, I set you a meeting up, go do it, you know what I mean? So it all depends on how you maneuver. You can set them up and pave them away, but they gotta really want it for themselves. So that's one thing I can say, like, I could have did a little different, like, was putting them in position, but like making sure they stuck with it and holding people more accountable at a younger age.

• 50:32Ryan Clark?

  The hard part is too, and I always say this, everybody got a great idea for your money.

• 50:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:37Ryan Clark?

  Right, we all got, everybody wants.

• 50:38Speaker 03

  They don't want to invest none of theirs, bro.

• 50:39Ryan Clark?

  Everybody wants to build a business off of the money you make. My mind, so, I made it 55 minutes, I think. Do you hate the fact that you have one of the best high school mixtapes of all time?

• 50:50Speaker 03

  I love it, it's the greatest.

• 50:52Ryan Clark?

  Like, how often, how often do, bruh, my son used to sit in the kitchen in front of his, in front of the TV and watch YouTube videos. It was you, you know this name, I know. But do you know this name, Seventh Woods?

• 51:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, Seventh Woods, he from South Carolina.

• 51:06Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, right, it was him, Austin Rivers.

• 51:08Speaker 03

  Kill Car, Zion Wiggins, Andrew Wiggins, yeah.

• 51:12Ryan Clark?

  So four basketball players who make it to the level that you have, right? Who become one of the best at what they do in the world. Do y'all still have some sort of attachment to those moments where you first became who you are? Like when people talk about your highlight films?

• 51:27Speaker 03

  I gotta give a shout out to Will Wellman, man, you know what I mean? He's the one that made the mixtape for Be Lit. I mean, he was a guy that was a student at NC State. He was at the Bob Givens Tournament, you know, you play a Carolina NC State dude. He snuck in, got a media pass and filmed it. So he's the first one that sent it to my A U coach, like, yo, I got film, you wanna post it? We posted it, and from then on, he was like, you gotta go everywhere with us. So without him, I don't have that mixtape.

• 51:49Ryan Clark?

  So he traveled everywhere with you?

• 51:51Speaker 03

  After that, like, he sent us the video, he was a student at NC State at the time. We was like, oh, hell no, like, you gotta go to Vegas with us after this, you gotta, you gotta do everything. So he's in North Carolina, he helps me with my John Wall Holiday Invitation Tournament, like, one of the best high school tournaments that's right after Christmas. I got like three of the top 10 teams in the country gonna be there this year, so shout out to him for that. But I tell people, I got 10 million views, like, come on, bro, high school mixtape, like, we made high school mixtape lit, like, I never thought about building that platform with that. And you know, it's always the beta, is it Kill Car, is it Austin Rivers, like? But I feel like I got the best one, I think all those guys is up there. But it just made social media more lit. Now, I don't like it now, it's because now people be editing all this stuff and making some bootleg ones, and it can make you look like a five star, and you're really a two star.

• 52:36Speaker 03

  But like my son asked me the other day, like he was with his mom, he was like, "Man, put that high school mixtape on, I gotta watch that real quick." After he watched me do the dance on Amazon Prime. So for me, it's always me having a spotlight to react back to these kids. You know what I mean? That's one thing I love because have AU program and I love giving back. You know what I mean? And I want to speak on it and it's like now it's tougher because these kids don't really play the game because they love it. They pay for about what you got for them. Yep. And that's the hard part to try to deal with.

• 53:03Fred Taylor?

  What are you most proud of in all of this?

• 53:06Speaker 03

  I'm proud of the man I've become, being a great father, going through adversity, perseverance, not giving up on myself, having a great team around me. The space I am now going into the next chapter, the investments I'm making, trying to become a better businessman. All those type of things are great for me because I'm just trying to teach my kids of just because you, I am who I am, don't mean you get something every time. Like if you don't have a good week at school, we don't go get Legos. We don't go to the jumping place. Like you gotta hold them accountable because all I knew outside and y'all knew was go outside, play all day. And kids don't do this. No. They on roll blogs, video games, all this, all day. So we hold them, I hold my kids accountable. You know what I mean? Friday, you get your iPad at five for two hours. I love that.

• 53:51Speaker 03

  You know what I mean? During the weekdays, we don't get it. So you gotta hold that. For me, like most important thing for me and the most fun part about all this is going into this next career, but just being a father. Like it made me be a whole different person. And you know, you always, I got like 35 nieces and nephews. Like there's six sisters, two brothers with me. And everybody always say, "Bro, you don't know how I feel to you, how your kid like." Yeah. And I'm like, "Shit, I don't know what you're talking about." Like that ain't gonna change me like shit. Change your whole life. You gonna get on a flight quicker than you ever think you would to get back to what you gotta get to. That's crazy. So that's what I'm more proud of, everything. I'm like the man that my mom has instilled in me, all the things she has raised me to be, see her go through adversity, me go through adversity and me just being the father I am.

• 54:30Channing Crowder?

  You talked about the, what, you go back to Washington?

• 54:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:33Channing Crowder?

  You went back to DC and they gave you that love. You talk about the mixtape, talk about all that. If somebody questions you as a basketball player, because these young boys question people. Them, these young people don't know I play ball. They talk me to TikTok guy.

• 54:46Speaker 03

  Oh, you got TikTok?

• 54:47Channing Crowder?

  I don't have TikTok, but the motherfucker put me on TikTok all the time and they say, "You the big guy on TikTok."

• 54:51Speaker 03

  I ain't got TikTok, but I do on TikTok too.

• 54:52Channing Crowder?

  If somebody questions your basketball ability.

• 54:57Channing Crowder?

  What would you show them? And one of these young kids say, "Bro, you play basketball?" What's the thing you show them?

• 55:02Speaker 03

  One thing I show them?

• 55:03Channing Crowder?

  One thing you show them to be like, "Yeah, bitch, I play basketball."

• 55:06Speaker 03

  Somebody, uh, 2016-2017 mixtape on YouTube. I'm like, "Go check that out."

• 55:11Channing Crowder?

  Crazy.

• 55:12Speaker 03

  The best year of my career. Go check that out. You'll know.

• 55:14Channing Crowder?

  Yeah. Nasty.

• 55:16Speaker 03

  You seen it.

• 55:18Channing Crowder?

  Not go look at it, you seen it.

• 55:20Speaker 03

  You seen it?

• 55:20Channing Crowder?

  Because I have.

• 55:22Speaker 00

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 55:33Speaker 00

  Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Semaglutide injection, 2.4 milligrams a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?

• 55:51Ryan Clark?

  You went back to Kentucky, which was a big deal.

• 55:54Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 55:55Ryan Clark?

  Because Coach Cal is not there.

• 55:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:57Ryan Clark?

  Right, uh, he's now at Arkansas. But I think about going back to that mixtape. Boogie Cousins at Kentucky, you at Kentucky. What it would have been like in the NIL era if John Wall was a part of that?

• 56:11Speaker 03

  All right, I got a question. They say Cooper Flatt made 20, right? I probably got like 30.

• 56:17Ryan Clark?

  So, but how do you think that would have changed you? Or how has NIL transfer portal, all of that, changed basketball from the basketball?

• 56:25Speaker 03

  I love this question. And, uh, for me, it wouldn't have changed me. It made no difference. I, I had, what'd you get, Pell Grant? My Pell Grant was like 2,000 every semester. I only got 500 of it. The 1,500 went to my mom, like, "This is for you." Like, "I don't really need much." I'm in college, I'm wearing sweat suits every day. It's cold as shit in Kentucky. Got three sweat suits on, the hoodie. So, it really didn't matter. But for NIL, it's, it's, I don't, it's like, I'm happy for certain kids, but certain kids I don't, you know what I mean? So, let me break it down. Like, if you were to start playing, I know I'm going top five pick. Cool, get your money, but don't let that change you. You know what I mean? Like, it's a story I want to bring up. I got my tournament, right? And a kid come in, play for Overtime Elite. I'm thinking he'd have started playing, come in, three chains on, ski mask on. Walking into my gym, so, you know, I'm looking at him like, "Oh, he the guy."

• 57:09Speaker 03

  That's how many minutes the man played in the game. Two. They was down 20, he played the last two minutes.

• 57:15Channing Crowder?

  No.

• 57:15Speaker 03

  So I'm like, so I one time I'm like, your mindset is all backwards. Like you buying all these chains, you walking in with a ski mask, and you're not gonna go nowhere. So I look at it like, if you are, I think if you get in, you gotta have a great foundation, like parents or a great managing team around you, so where you know how to manage it, because it's already kind of helping you prepare yourself for the NBA, because these guys are getting 3 million, 4 million in high school. And it's like, I look at it like this, if I'm getting 3 million in high school, and I got the best car on campus, and I'm making the most money on campus, am I working up at 5 a.m. to work out the same way? I better. You know what I mean? I don't think a lot of these kids are. And that's where it's like, oh, I got this early. Now, what's my purpose again to the league? Now you're no longer a kid really love the game, because I'm already getting what I really want, the money, the cars, the fame. So do you really love the game?

• 57:57Speaker 03

  And that's when you realize, these kids that's getting 7 to 8 to 10 million, are you still producing on that level every night? But I don't like, I don't like the portal, they have to change that. Like you might have to sign something like, because if I know like, I know a kid like, oh, I averaged 2 points last year, but some school won't give me 2 million, I'm jumping in the portal. I feel like you should have to sign something, be like, yo, if I leave, I have to pay you back what you gave me, and I go get my new money. You know what I mean? Not just jumping, because every year, you're just gonna see everybody go like this. There's 500 people in the portal, and imagine last year in the Sweet 16, 2 kids was about to play, had transferred in the portal.

• 58:31Channing Crowder?

  Yes.

• 58:31Speaker 03

  Like, they have to do that after the tournament, because now, you already telling your team, I'm checked out. Coach will be like, do I play you or not?

• 58:38Channing Crowder?

  Yep.

• 58:39Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, NCAA has 2 problems. It's the portal, and it's when the coaches can leave.

• 58:44Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:44Fred Taylor?

  You know, like what happened with the Lane Kiffin situation in the playoffs and all that.

• 58:48Speaker 03

  I feel like he should, do you think, you feel like he should have coached?

• 58:50Ryan Clark?

  Hey, guys, let's leave Lane alone. Lane's in a better place now.

• 58:54Channing Crowder?

  Oh, that shit got personal, that shit.

• 58:55Speaker 03

  No, no, no, but I feel like they should have let him coach though.

• 58:58Fred Taylor?

  He should have been able to.

• 58:59Speaker 03

  I feel like they should have let him finish the season, though.

• 59:01Ryan Clark?

  I, I'm just gonna be honest, I, I think there is the people who still have to live in Oxford, Mississippi. The athletic, the athletic director's still gotta live there, and nobody wants their school to be thought of as the second choice.

• 59:16Speaker 03

  Well, they gotta change it to after the bowl game's over.

• 59:19Ryan Clark?

  It's an NCAA problem.

• 59:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure, yeah, 1000%.

• 59:21Ryan Clark?

  It's an NCAA problem, like Fred was saying with the timing.

• 59:23Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, that's what I think, but we always ask our guests their biggest pivot in life. But before that, I do want to ask you about Cooper Flagg, because you brought him up. He was just recently, he just had 40 points, youngest player ever to have 40 points. What do you think about Cooper?

• 59:36Speaker 03

  Cold.

• 59:37Fred Taylor?

  Real deal?

• 59:37Speaker 03

  Cold.

• 59:38Fred Taylor?

  Yeah?

• 59:38Speaker 03

  You gotta think, you know he supposed to be a freshman in college.

• 59:41Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 59:42Speaker 03

  Hey man, during my fear, it's supposed to be freshmen in college. You know what I mean? I gotta shout out Melo Kaitoni, shout out to him, you know what I mean? He supposed to be a senior, he supposed to be a senior this year. He's a freshman at UM, you know what I mean? So, he's challenging, but what I say about Cooper Flag is, you know what I mean? Jason Kidd's a hell of a coach, Hall of Fame, first ballot, everything about him. I think early on, he tried to kind of do like what he did with Giannis. Put the ball in his hand and try to let him play a little point four. And he really wasn't ready for that. Because people know the hardest position to learn in two sports is what? Being a point guard and being a quarterback. You know what I mean? That's the hardest thing to come in as a rookie. Like, it's the hardest thing to learn because now you gotta know where guys want the ball at, where they shooting pocket is.

• 1:00:22Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 1:00:22Speaker 03

  When do I get my shots? When I get everybody else's shots? How do I run the team? Now you see him blossom when you took him out of the point guard spot and put him at his true position. What is he doing?

• 1:00:31Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:31Speaker 03

  He's averaging damn near 20 points a game. He's doing what we all expected Cooper Flag to be. So, I think he's gonna be special.

• 1:00:37Fred Taylor?

  And that other question, your biggest pivot in life is that one moment you can look back on?

• 1:00:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:42Fred Taylor?

  And say, because this happened to me or for me, I am who I am today.

• 1:00:46Speaker 03

  I think the biggest pivot for me is the darkest place I was in. I mean, I think that's the biggest pivot in my purpose. My purpose is of, I was great at basketball, I had a hell of a career. You know what I mean? I don't think I would change, it's injuries which you can't control.

• 1:00:57Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:57Speaker 03

  But other than that, I love what I did, I took care of my teammates, I was fun, I played on both ends of the floor. But now I get to not just show people how great I was at basketball, I get to go on TV and talk about what I did as a basketball player and teach them what I see and what I think they can grow in and pivot from and get better. You know what I mean? These young guys, I always tell them like, here's my number, like, reach out, like, I've been through what you've been through. I've been on the highest level where you're trying to get to and I've probably been in different spaces you probably never will get to. So if I can help you not go through the mistakes I went through, I'm here for it. Because I'm older, I'm smarter, I'm more mature, I'm willing to learn. So I feel like my purpose is of being a sports analyst, broadcasting, is giving my knowledge of the game and a why. Because you can watch and you know, people always talk all the time.

• 1:01:42Speaker 03

  Talk basketball, but you might be like, why he take 23s tonight? As a fan, you don't know why. But me, that's my job is to tell you why he did that. And you know what I mean? Like you might say, oh, the quarterback did this on this play. You like, why? You can explain that to him. So it's like, I always look at like, I want to be a GM one day. That's like my ultimate goal because I feel like I know the game of basketball. So I know just because you're a two guard, you nice and you're a point guard, you nice. They might not mesh together. So why would I draft it together? Then you always wonder why, oh, they don't like each other. They don't fit together. So to put a team together, you got to know what each other personalities and characters are all about. So I think that's my biggest pivot of just having an opportunity to live my dream out of playing and being the highest level. But I think my biggest purpose is helping the younger generation out.

• 1:02:26Ryan Clark?

  To that point, Marcus Spears, who I worked with, went to college with. His son's number one player in the country for 2027. If you had any advice for Marcus Spears Jr. as being the number one player, a position you have been in, what would it be?

• 1:02:42Speaker 03

  I think for him, just continue to stay level-headed, listen to your pops, listen to your mom.

• 1:02:45Ryan Clark?

  His mom was a first round pick in WNBA as well.

• 1:02:48Speaker 03

  Damn, well shit, you, you, you in the right platform. But just continue to work. Like, don't listen to the noise. Like, there's social media world that tell you some shit one day and praise you the next day. But keep your head down, continue to do your books, make sure you get your education, but enjoy it. Like, make sure you're having fun, continue to be a kid. Because like now, these high school kids, they feel like they living in the world of professional athletes. Like, they don't get to enjoy anything. And that's one that I liked about the time when I'm having so much social media is that I was able to still be a kid. And I'm like, don't. And I think his pops is gonna do a great job of like, if he get NIL, oh, he putting this to the side. We don't need to go buy a Rolex watch tomorrow and three bust down chains and walk into the gym like that. I think that's the most important thing.

• 1:03:30Speaker 03

  So I think for him, just continue to work, keep your head down, know where you want to go with it, and your dream is all up to you.

• 1:03:37Ryan Clark?

  Amina said, I know, Amina.

• 1:03:41Ryan Clark?

  Channing, you can't, you gotta piss that, man. We gotta put your hand in your pants. Man, man. Go ahead, man.

• 1:03:46Fred Taylor?

  Just go, man.

• 1:03:47Speaker 03

  You gotta piss like a race that can take a day with a Gooch on.

• 1:03:49Ryan Clark?

  Man, goodness.

• 1:03:50Speaker 03

  He's so weak, bro.

• 1:03:51Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, but we got something else. Nah, I have never. I have never. Bro, I have never seen a man.

• 1:03:59Fred Taylor?

  This man buy a gallon of water out of the store just to pour it on the ground so he can use the gallon bucket.

• 1:04:05Speaker 03

  To use his battery.

• 1:04:06Ryan Clark?

  Bro, we just saw this adult man hold his pee pee like a five-year-old, bro.

• 1:04:11Fred Taylor?

  He do it all the time, bro.

• 1:04:12Ryan Clark?

  Hands in his pants.

• 1:04:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I gotta start putting it on the shoulder. I gotta see that. Like, he be over there, he running out.

• 1:04:16Fred Taylor?

  Nah, but we don't do enough BT as, but he's wild. But no, I did want to ask you. Yeah, I did want to ask you, are you, were your mom a Cowboy fan? Are you a Cowboy fan too?

• 1:04:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, damn sure am.

• 1:04:26Fred Taylor?

  So, since they're out of the playoffs.

• 1:04:28Speaker 03

  Yeah. Since they's. They out, I'm sorry.

• 1:04:31Ryan Clark?

  Bro, John, this the biggest Cowboy fan in the world.

• 1:04:34Speaker 03

  I'm gonna keep it G with you. Listen, listen, I'm gonna tell you about Cowboys fans, and I love us to death.

• 1:04:38Fred Taylor?

  This is what I like.

• 1:04:39Speaker 03

  But we be capping. Listen, we always gonna be a great regular season team. Since I've been older, understanding, we fold in the playoffs. No matter what seed we get, we fold. You know what I mean? I don't feel like we gonna get in this shit because Philly gotta lose every game. And we gotta win every game. We shit the bed the last two weeks to fucked up our chances. Simple as that.

• 1:04:58Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:59Speaker 03

  But I'm not one of those people like, oh, we gonna be, we gonna win the Super Bowl this year. Fuck no. We are a good team that's for the regular season. We ain't there yet to feel like we are a championship contender. I can tell you that as a Cowboys fan.

• 1:05:11Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 1:05:12Speaker 03

  Because I, because I get this hate all the time. I'm like, yo, listen, I'm gonna be real with you. We made some cool moves, all this, but we not there yet.

• 1:05:18Ryan Clark?

  I'm questioning the, when you look at the Cowboys. Is, is, is, is Dak Prescott the quarterback that can bring you a Super Bowl?

• 1:05:25Speaker 03

  I feel like he is. The problem is, you gotta think, and you know this, and you know this very well. Name me a quarterback that played well with no running game.

• 1:05:35Fred Taylor?

  They will get a little better this year.

• 1:05:37Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no. Javon Williams has been amazing for us. But also, I told everybody, when you get George Pickens, it opens up the window for C.D. Lamb. You can't double team him by himself. I mean, but they're like, well, we haven't had a running game in a couple of years. Tony Pollard was good. I think Rico Dowd we could have kept, because he would have been great, because he's balling in Carolina. But it's like, our offense become good, defense become shit. Our defense was good, the offense was some shit. We gotta kind of make it a balance at some point.

• 1:06:02Fred Taylor?

  He's spot on with it.

• 1:06:03Speaker 03

  We gotta make it a balance at some point. But like, I'm a real fan, it's gonna take you to truth. But I watch football all day. I'm not gonna be like, oh, we're going to the Super Bowl, we're a contender. Fuck no. We might make the playoffs and lose first round every year.

• 1:06:14Fred Taylor?

  Who you like then?

• 1:06:18Fred Taylor?

  Man, that's why I ask, so you can lay it up, let me know who you like.

• 1:06:22Ryan Clark?

  Who's the best team right now?

• 1:06:23Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:24Speaker 03

  Pat, I'm sorry, but Pat, that hurt me, Pat. I wanted him to get in. But they had a tough year, though. Rashid Rice missing six games, worried to get hurt early. Kelsey not the same. There ain't gonna be a lot of men in the Rams. The Rams ballin'. I just hope, I just hope Devonte can come back. I would send him down to the playoffs, though, like hamstring.

• 1:06:42Fred Taylor?

  He's gonna have to.

• 1:06:42Speaker 03

  But I feel like him and Puka out there, and you got Kyron Williams. That's my team to win it.

• 1:06:47Ryan Clark?

  Man, I would say this, apparently, we are very similar. Just you do basketball, and I do football. After sitting with you for an hour, man, I take that as a complete compliment. Like, just the conversation, the depths and the levels that you spoke on. And just even when talking about basketball, the way that it felt like as you were talking about it, I could see it happening in front of me.

• 1:07:10Speaker 03

  Kind of visualizing, yeah.

• 1:07:11Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, you have an incredible career ahead of you.

• 1:07:13Speaker 03

  I try to look at it like, as a point guard, you know what I mean? Like, people like, I see a play before it happens. That's how I always thought, like. I've always say, like, when I play, you can be guarded. I'm not worried about you. I'm worried about where the help side is coming from, because I know where the reads are going. And that's what you're trying to kind of like, help these point guards and mentor, because so many of these guys are combo guards now. They're not really true point guards. I think... Halliburton and Josh Giddy might be like the real last two, like true, true point guards.

• 1:07:40Ryan Clark?

  Giddy be giving it to him.

• 1:07:41Speaker 03

  Oh, he's cold. I feel like he should have got more, but he's cold.

• 1:07:43Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, they got him for cheap.

• 1:07:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. But I feel like those two, like they were like the real, like true point guard that's really like, they can score if they have to, but they really just trying to get everybody involved.

• 1:07:54Ryan Clark?

  Gosh, I know the show gotta end.

• 1:07:55Channing Crowder?

  I just want to ask, do you enjoy, because for you to talk about that, we talked about that before. Do you enjoy watching, like, you watch it as a fan?

• 1:08:02Ryan Clark?

  I hate watching football.

• 1:08:03Channing Crowder?

  No, you do watch it. Like, I watch it as lines, because to your point, I'm looking like, oh, he ain't deep enough. Oh, that safety gotta jump. I don't watch it for pleasure. I watch it as analytics.

• 1:08:13Speaker 03

  I watch it for both. Because like I say, it's the hard part for me is I know I can still play. So I'd be like, man, I'd do this right now. Like, I would have just, boom. And I'd be like, get that out your mind. Like, you, like, look at it as like a job thing. So it's like, I'd be like, ah, fuck. So it's like 50/50 for me. It's like 50/50. No, because I be talking to my team, we be watching games and we talking, I'd be like, don't even say it. You know what you about to say. I'd be like, I would have did this. Like, even when it's hard for me, I go watch high school kids. And I'd be like, I would average 70 in high school right now. Like, high school be weak as hell.

• 1:08:46Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:46Speaker 03

  It is. I'm just being honest. Like, you know, like, you watch football sometimes, you be like, I can't hit like this no more. I can't do this. Like, it's like, it takes away from how you really want to play and adjust the game. Like, I came in where I can chuck people across the lane when I ran. Like, I can't guard Steph Curry if I can't put a hand on him and he running around all day. Like, what can I do?

• 1:09:04Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 1:09:05Speaker 03

  So it's like, so when you could, like, people compare like basketball, well, this is the golden, this, I'm like, bro, you can't, what era are you playing in? Because if you put Jordan in this era where you can't touch?

• 1:09:14Ryan Clark?

  80.

• 1:09:17Speaker 03

  Those are conversations I have with people, and they be like, well, they more athletic than, I said, no, they're.

• 1:09:21Ryan Clark?

  Not to him.

• 1:09:22Speaker 03

  Not to him. He was flying. He was getting care.

• 1:09:25Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:25Speaker 03

  So that's just how I look at the balance of it.

• 1:09:28Ryan Clark?

  Appreciate you, brother. Man, this is a man on the show, man. Thank you for your time.

• 1:09:31Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:09:31Ryan Clark?

  Hey, so I do have a question. The best explosive one, right? D-Rose, you, Westbrook, I guess Ja would be an explosive one.

• 1:09:42Speaker 03

  Ja for sure gotta be in there. You got Baron David, you can go Steve Francis.

• 1:09:46Ryan Clark?

  Oh, yes.

• 1:09:47Speaker 03

  You can go Daze with it, man.

• 1:09:49Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:50Speaker 03

  You want one foot, you want two foot? Two would have to be D-Rose. For sure. That's what I was about to say. Hold on, it's a debate though. Because him and Ja two feet is crazy. That's all Ja do. Him and Ja is the top two for two feet. Yeah. But one foot.

• 1:10:09Speaker 03

  I don't know, one foot is tough because all of us really are two foot jumpers. Russ. Russ, he got one foot, but he like two foot though. Like he jump right, left. Like him and Ja jump right, left. Me and D-Rose jump left, right. I have no idea. But I jump right, but I jump off my right foot.