NASA Physicist Takes UFOs Seriously: Dr. Kevin Knuth on Aliens Already Living on Earth, Nuclear Missile Shutdowns, and the Government Cover-Up

SHOCKING REVELATIONS: NASA Scientist Breaks Silence on Nonhuman Intelligence, UAPs, and the Evidence They Don’t Want You to See What if the truth about nonhuman intelligence is already here on Earth - hidden in our oceans, interfering with our technology, and operating beyond the laws of physics we thought were unbreakable? In this episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown, Dr. Kevin Knuth (former NASA research scientist & Professor of Physics at the University at Albany) reveals jaw-dropping, real-world evidence that will completely change how you think about UAPs, aliens, and reality itself. Dr. Knuth breaks down: - Nonhuman Intelligence Already Living on Earth? Why advanced UAP capabilities suggest they may have underwater bases and a vested interest in our planet - Nuclear Missiles SHUT DOWN by Unknown Craft: Verified incidents that stunned military officials - UAPs That DEFY Physics: Instant acceleration, silent movement, & impossible flight characteristics explained - Burned Humans, Scorched Trees & Disabled Cars: Close encounters with real physical effects - Abduction accounts that will disturb you, Including cases where humans reportedly interacted with extraterrestrial beings…and even held alien infants - “Angel Hair” Phenomenon: Strange material falling from the sky witnessed by thousands and analyzed by scientists - UAP Crash Debris Analysis: What researchers are uncovering from mysterious recovered materials - 3I Atlas Mystery: New observations & anomalies that strongly suggest it’s NOT a comet - The Water World Hypothesis: Why oceans may be the perfect hiding place for advanced nonhuman intelligence (and the growing number of sightings of objects entering and exiting the water!) - Why many scientists are afraid to speak publicly about UAPs - The lack of “smoking gun” evidence, and why that might be misleading - Patterns across thousands of sightings that suggest something real is happening - Beyond UAPs: Consciousness & the Unknown -Telepathy, remote viewing, and why accuracy drops the harder you try - Savant abilities that continue to defy scientific explanation - Dr. Knuth’s own paranormal & precognitive experiences - How being near cattle mutilation cases first led Dr. Knuth to question everything—and begin his search for answers - Signs to look for if nonhuman intelligence exists within just one light-day of Earth This isn’t science fiction. These are real accounts, real data, and real questions that challenge everything we think we know about our place in the universe! For an exclusive offer go to https://bioptimizers.com/breaker and use promo code BREAKER during checkout to save 15 %. If you're struggling with OCD or unrelenting intrusive thoughts, NOCD can help. Book a free 15 minute call to get started: https://learn.nocd.com/BREAK Get 20% off all IQ Bar products - plus free shipping by texting BREAKDOWN to 64000. If you’re able, please consider donating to the research efforts of UAlbany Project X (UAPx): http://www.albany.edu/giving/UAPx Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BialikBreakdown.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.bialikbreakdown.com/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube.com/mayimbialik⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/mayimbialik%E2%81%A0 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  With the American Express Platinum Card, you can access over $3,500 in annual value with benefits and eligible purchases across travel, entertainment, and more. There's nothing like Platinum. Learn more at americanexpress.com/explore-platinum. Enrollment requirements, monthly and other limits and terms apply.

• 0:15Mayim Bialik?

  When you say shutting down nuclear missile sites.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  One of the professors said, "I have friends who work up at Molucco Air Force Base, and they have problems there with UFOs flying over the nuclear missile sites and shutting down our nuclear missiles." He said, "Yeah, yeah, there are often UFO sightings when that happens." So I started paying attention.

• 0:34Mayim Bialik?

  Dr. Kevin Canuth is a professor of physics and a former NASA scientist, willing to go where most of his colleagues won't: UFOs, UAPs, and the possibility that aliens might already be in our solar system.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  I look through cases where you have something unexpected. When people are abducted by gray aliens that were 60% reported, they were given babies to hold. Why would anyone report that?

• 1:00Mayim Bialik?

  Specific things that keep popping up all over the world.

• 1:04Speaker 02

  Nepal to Congo to Chicago. But here's the interesting surprise: They could have discovered Earth a long time ago. Congress noted that UFOs had become more aggressive toward our pilots in war zones. And if you think of them as having found Earth, they may have the mindset, "Earth is their planet. We could end up in a conflict eventually." I don't think anybody's ready for this.

• 1:31Mayim Bialik?

  Hi, I'm Iain Viallick.

• 1:33Jonathan Cohen?

  I'm Jonathan Cohen.

• 1:34Mayim Bialik?

  And welcome to our Breakdown. As you can tell from my T-shirt, and if you can see close enough, my earrings, today is a day when we're going to discuss the impossibility of aliens. Our guest today is someone who has the incredible opportunity to study unidentified aerial phenomena, UAPs, from the perspective of physics. He is a professor at University at Albany, that's SUNY Albany, New York. Kevin Canuth is a professor of physics. They focus on the scientific study of UAPs. He's a former NASA research scientist. He worked at the Ames Research Center in the Intelligence Systems Division.

• 2:16Mayim Bialik?

  This episode is a perfect example of how we can blend skepticism...

• 2:23Mayim Bialik?

  Curiosity, criticism with open-mindedness, and the ability to open our conscious experience of what is here and now into a possible understanding of what is beyond what we can see and measure. We're going to be discussing some of the most compelling data out there in terms of speed, acceleration, the amount of power required to even be able to imagine how UAPs would travel. Dr. Knuth is also going to walk us through the statistically significant and disturbing reports of UFO sightings surrounding military and nuclear activity. What is going on? What should we be concerned about? And where do we go to get the information about what happens next?

• 3:08Mayim Bialik?

  We're going to talk about who we can trust with this information.

• 3:11Jonathan Cohen?

  We're going to touch on the unique characteristics of 3I Atlas research that's being done to test actual debris from crash sites and what we can learn from that.

• 3:21Mayim Bialik?

  We're also going to talk about the Waterworld hypothesis. What would it mean to imagine that aliens might not be traveling from other places, but might actually be here already, and they might be underwater? You're going to want to make sure you listen to the very, very end of this episode, where we ask Dr. Knuth what has personally happened to him that makes him believe that the study of UAPs is scientifically not only necessary, but critical to our understanding of our humanity. Before we welcome Dr. Knuth, you can find out more about his research at albany.edu/giving/uapx if you want to learn more about what it means to support this kind of research.

• 4:04Mayim Bialik?

  Dr. Kevin Knuth, welcome to the Breakdown.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  Break it down. Hello, thank you so much for having me.

• 4:12Mayim Bialik?

  I'd like you to give us a framework of why you do what you do in terms of your study of UAPs.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  I was born in 1965, so I was four years old with the Apollo moon landings, and I remember them. I remember my dad holding me just after we watched it on TV and pointing up at the moon and saying, "There are people up there." And that had such a huge impact on me. And so I was thrilled to see Artemis to go around the moon. 1977, I was, what, 12 years old? And that's when Star Wars came out, which of course had a huge impact. And... And at the same time at night, what, six thirty at night, they would play In Search of with Leonard Nimoy. And In Search of always had some UFO things, which were always exciting and interesting.

• 5:01Speaker 02

  Went to graduate school at Montana State University and got my master's degree in physics there. And um, when I first moved out there, that would have been late summer of nineteen eighty-eight. I we'd I'd been living out there for about a week or so and classes had just started. And there was a cattle mutilation in Bozeman on a ranch. That night, there were, what, a hundred phone calls to the sheriff's office about UFOs. And then you have this cattle mutilation where there were two cows that were killed and surgically manipulated. And it was very bizarre. And um, and this was all over the news and people were worried that, you know, it's aliens or it's Satanists.

• 5:45Speaker 02

  And those were the two main explanations. Those are the two hypotheses everybody ran to, right? And we were discussing this in the physics department. And the some of the new students were, you know, we've all, you know, you've been to grad school. So you know what? You you moved to a new place. You're gonna be you're gonna be there for five years. So we the conversation was kind of more centered around what kind of crazy place that we all just moved to? And how are we going to navigate this, right? And it was a pretty heated discussion and one of the professors came out of his office to see what the commotion was. Clearly, we had bothered him and um, and we told him and he he didn't have any words of comfort for us.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  In fact, it was even stranger. He said, yeah, yeah, that happens from time to time. And there are often UFO sightings when that happens. But it we look at people look into it and they never figure it out. And then people forget about it until it happens again. Well, that's not very satisfactory.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  And then he tops it all off with this additional statement. He goes, you know, I I have friends who work up, who are in the air force, who work up at Malmstrom Air Force Base in northern Montana. And they have problems there with UFOs flying over the nuclear missile sites and shutting down our nuclear missiles. And, you know, we listened politely and when he walked away, to be honest, we laughed our butts off because it was, it was hard to imagine that that's even possible, right? The UFOs are shutting down our nuclear missiles and our government isn't on high alert. This isn't all over the place. So we, nobody really believed that. And that kind of became a running joke for the year.

• 7:33Speaker 02

  Anytime somebody would say something strange happened, somebody else would chime in, yeah, but you know, it's really strange. UFOs are shutting down nuclear missiles at Malmstrom Air Force Base and we would all laugh. And so that stuck with me until I was here at U Albany teaching and this would have been about 2015 or so.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  So it's before the New York Times article still by Wesley Kane and Ralph Blumenthal and I mean Cooper. And so it was before that and I was teaching a course in astronomy and preparing for a lecture on astrobiology and possibility of life elsewhere. And some of my students wanted me to talk about UFOs and I didn't know what to talk about except the Drake equation or the Fermi paradox. So I was just poking around on the internet to think about, is there anything intelligent I can actually say? And I stumbled on a, the press conference held by Robert Hastings in 2010 where he

• 8:39Speaker 02

  had five or six people from the Air Force talking about UFO incursions at nuclear missile sites. And the first person that he talked to was Robert Salas, who was at Malmstrom Air Force Base. And I, and I got that, I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. I heard about this 30 years ago, right? It was, I heard about this when I was in grad school from a physics professor. And it just, it just hit me like, you know, a ton of bricks, like, wait a minute, this, this is very possibly real. And what, and nobody's doing anything about it. Nobody's even knows about it. And this could be incredibly dangerous. And it just, I was very concerned on hearing this.

• 9:22Speaker 02

  And then I, so I stayed up, I watched the whole press conference, which was like two or three hours. I don't think I went to bed till like 3 a.m. that night. I had to get up early for class. It struck me and thought, somebody needs to look into this and see if this is really real. And so I started just paying attention. I was paying attention. I started reading up on the topic and getting anything that I could that seemed reasonable. And then when the New York Times article came out talking about the AATIP program, then I thought, yeah, this scientists need to be involved. Somebody needs to be studying these things. And so I decided to try to study it. Well, I don't know what I can do, but I thought,

• 10:07Speaker 02

  let's, first I'll do my homework. Let's just do what you should do. So we have a set, I found there were a set of encounters where they had descriptions of how fast these objects were moving. And I thought, well, I can, at least, at the very least, I can estimate speeds and accelerations and get some idea of what we're dealing with here. And that really shocked me that the speeds and accelerations were crazy. I mean, crazy huge. The observers would have to be very, very, very wrong for those numbers to be anywhere close to that. So I found that really amazing.

• 10:44Mayim Bialik?

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• 11:27Mayim Bialik?

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• 12:09Mayim Bialik?

  And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was my Alex breakdown. It's the best way to support our show. Generally speaking, why, why are so many scientists of a variety of fields afraid to touch this stuff?

• 12:26Speaker 02

  I mean, there clearly is a taboo against it. You know, a lot of it probably has to do with the way that it's been covered up by our government and other governments. And that is, um, it doesn't take much to cover it up, which is why it isn't, doesn't need to be a grand conspiracy theory. All you have to do is make fun of it.

• 12:51Speaker 02

  Just make fun of the witnesses and everybody laughs and giggles. They might report it on the nightly news and you know, the reporter, the, you know, the anchor people are laughing, yahahaha. While they're talking about it and they've got the little silly graphic of a saucer with a green person in it. And, and that's all it takes and everybody looks like nutcases. So scientists don't want to get involved in it. Some scientists are very adamantly against it. Like, like when they find out you're working on it, you are no longer a scientist in their minds. It's a very strange response. And it's not a response that you would expect a scientist to have. Scientists ought to be curious, right? And, um,

• 13:34Speaker 02

  And and they have the strange expectation that there has to be some kind of smoking gun evidence. I mean Michio Kaku uses that phrase all the time. There's no smoking gun evidence. Well, there never is in science. I I study exoplanets and um we don't have smoking gun evidence about what their atmospheres are like. We don't have samples. Nobody's been there. Nobody's actually seen the planet with their own eyes. Um, but we know all know a lot about them. You get lots of little pieces of information and you piece that all together and and under a theory you can make inferences and that's basically how you work in science.

• 14:11Mayim Bialik?

  Humans like to find patterns and we we are wired to recognize patterns and sometimes that means we will create patterns where they don't exist. And when we're talking about this kind of data, it's very tempting to piece it together into a pattern that points to there are aliens and they're interested in nuclear facilities. Can you give us a little bit of a background as to when people started talking about potential alien interest in nuclear sites, military sites? How legitimate is that? And is that a place for us to start the investigation?

• 14:52Speaker 02

  I think it is legitimate for a few reasons. I think first that this was recognized rather early on. In fact, I have an article from 1951 and it's put out by the Atomic Energy Commission and they're asking people to report UFO sightings near nuclear power plants. That's very odd. I mean, clearly somebody knew something was going on, right?

• 15:18Mayim Bialik?

  But that's also selection bias, right? Because if they were to say, we'd like you to report alien sightings near dairy farms, you know, I I can't go back in time, at least not currently, and say, well, if we had been looking at dairy farms, you know, maybe, and again, I'm devil's advocate here, maybe people who think that they're seeing UFOs will see them anywhere you tell them to look.

• 15:43Speaker 02

  It's it's that's very possible. Yeah. But I think, yeah. So so I mentioned that because that was the earliest.

• 15:53Speaker 02

  Piece of information that highlights that a possible connection. You then have the many of the air force sightings are related to nuclear weapons being shut down, which is, which is interesting. If the fact that they're actually somehow possibly interacting with these, whether they're in it's an intentional interaction or non-intentional interaction, it's not clear.

• 16:20Mayim Bialik?

  When you say shutting down nuclear missile sites.

• 16:24Speaker 02

  Robert Solis describes this well. UFO would come down and hover over one of the launch tubes for the nuclear missile. And shortly after it would become, it would basically become deactivated. He's in one of his interviews, he said that it was a guidance. A guidance malfunction that caused the shutdown. So is it an intentional shutdown? I mean, most people I think are assuming it's intentional, but it doesn't need to be. If you have a guidance system running on this nuclear missile, the missile needs to know where it is. It needs to know that it's still in the launch tube, right?

• 17:04Mayim Bialik?

  In the absence of other evidence, my first assumption is not alien. My first or second, or even 10th assumption might be there's many countries in the world that would love to fuck with our missiles. Right? Like that. So I'm not necessarily going to UFO, but maybe you can give us a little bit more of the landscape, you know, of how we piece together all of these things to direct us towards that as opposed to many of the other explanations that some of us would come up with.

• 17:36Speaker 02

  The main difficulty is this started, as far as I know, the, the nuclear missiles being shut down started in the 1960s.

• 17:48Speaker 02

  And so at that time, we didn't, nobody had drones at that time. You don't have a drone. So these objects were behaving very much like what we would today call drones. Right. And, um, and so I think that was, that's one of the major difficulties. They were, when they were observed, they looked like what people described UFOs to be. Some of the descriptions, balls of light. And, um, and so this is where they went to that explanation. Um, and it was apparently rather common. The, my, I was,

• 18:23Speaker 02

  my wife's from Louisiana. We were down for Mardi Gras two years ago. We were having a little barbecue with, with, for family and, um, we were growing and I was, I was at the grill with, um, my wife's uncle Matt. And I noticed he had his air, he was, he had been in the air force and I'd never really thought about that. But he had a cap on and his cap, you know, said air force and said Malmstrom Air Force Base. And I was like, wait, wait, you were at Malmstrom? When were you at Malmstrom? And he said, the early 1970s, which is right, the time period when these shutdowns were happening. I said, did you know anything about UFOs shutting down nuclear missiles? He goes, oh yeah, that happened all the time and blah, blah, like, like it was common knowledge.

• 19:05Speaker 02

  And I was, and I ran and got my wife. I said, you have to come out here and hear, hear this. And I had him tell her because, because I'm tired of being the only crazy person in the room.

• 19:16Speaker 02

  It was nice to have somebody else like, yeah, this was, this happened all the time. Yeah. So, so that, that's, apparently it was not a rare event.

• 19:27Speaker 02

  And there's a nice study by, um, the Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies. And they were studying UFO sightings from 1947 to the mid seventies. They did a comparison of the numbers of sightings, UFO sightings at nuclear, nuclear sites.

• 19:46Speaker 02

  Either nuclear production sites, or storage sites, or weapon sites. And then compared that to military, nearby military bases, and nearby cities. And it turned out that the, um, the nuclear missile sites had more, more sightings than the others did. And in fact, those sightings went back earlier. Um, the sightings at nuclear sites started when the sites were being constructed before there were any nuclear materials there.

• 20:20Mayim Bialik?

  If we were to think about, you know, a UFO that exists outside of this planet, right? Like, it's not here now. And it's coming down to, let's say, pick up, you know, some radioactivity detection system that's like making it come down, whatever. Explain to us from a physics perspective, what are we actually talking about? How is this UFO actually getting here?

• 20:52Speaker 02

  It's related to one of Carl Sagan's arguments against UFOs being alien. And that was, he, he, he said something like, um, I have a hard time believing that you've got a craft arriving from interstellar space every Tuesday.

• 21:07Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 21:08Speaker 02

  And I think he's right about that. I think that's not what's happening. I think they live here.

• 21:13Mayim Bialik?

  The Sagan perspective would be, in theory, that outside of our galactic kind of knowledge, there are places, right, where there are, um, flying saucers, for lack of a better word, and they somehow can travel across time, right? They're traveling from wherever they are at speeds that we don't even understand because technically, right? That's where they'd be coming from, is outside of our remote measurement.

• 21:45Speaker 02

  From another star system.

• 21:46Mayim Bialik?

  Correct, from another star system, great. So they would be then entering our atmosphere, undetected until a moment of reveal, right?

• 21:56Mayim Bialik?

  Or until they need to like, uh, access whatever information they're here to gather. And then they are able to, again, uh, like against all of our measurement capabilities, disappear out of sight, sometimes in an instant. And then they exist somewhere in another star system with whatever information. I mean, one question I have, you know, inconsistent with that is like, why are they crashing? If they're sophisticated enough, right, to be traveling across galaxies and star systems, they can't just keep steering correctly?

• 22:30Jonathan Cohen?

  Cause they're fighting with the people they're traveling with. They're all hangry.

• 22:35Mayim Bialik?

  Their wife is saying, why don't you stop and ask for directions? Anyway, so your solution to my question is they live here.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  They have to live within one light day of this, of Earth.

• 22:52Mayim Bialik?

  What's a light day?

• 22:53Speaker 02

  So that basically puts them in our solar system somewhere. So they have to be somewhere in our solar system and, and very possibly here on Earth already. The Soviets, when trying to study some of these objects would make military maneuvers, especially naval maneuvers. So they would perform these large naval maneuvers that would typically just confuse the United States. But what the Soviets were doing is they would make this large naval maneuver and then UFOs would show up and they would study them. So they were actually moving military equipment around to get UFOs to come. And that would typically happen within 24 hours. So light travels, you know, 186,000 miles a second, right?

• 23:38Mayim Bialik?

  Got it.

• 23:39Speaker 02

  So you, so for a UFO to get here in 24 hours, the light would have had to travel out information some distance and then they have to travel back.

• 23:47Mayim Bialik?

  If we're talking about... Us communicating with aliens and them receiving information enough for them to act on it and then show up, why on earth do they have to follow our information time scale of how bits and quanta travel through the universe?

• 24:09Speaker 02

  This also happens with natural disasters. So with the Fukushima nuclear power plant disaster, there were UFOs there the next day.

• 24:16Mayim Bialik?

  What if their method of detection, information transfer, travel, what if none of it obeys any of the laws that we can talk about? And I'm not just bringing this up like to give you a straw man. It's very interesting to me how we limit ourselves when we're talking about something like aliens, which is limitless as far as I'm concerned. They may be communicating on a level that we don't even understand, like, you know, like the dog whistle, right? Like extrapolate that out. Like they're operating on like an AI energy level that like no one understands and it also like detects, you know, the like level of estrogen in my, you know, blood. I don't know.

• 25:01Speaker 02

  No, that's a, that's a good point. And it's, it makes studying something that you don't know anything about very difficult.

• 25:09Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  You can either just say, I don't know anything about this, so everything's open. Or you can say, well, I do know how this typically works. So if, if this is typically, you know, if information's basic, if they're getting information the way everybody else here does, then you're limited by the speed of light. And so that means that they have to not be that far away.

• 25:34Mayim Bialik?

  Okay. I'm willing to, so I'm going to go ahead and grant you that one possible solution, one possible, you know, explanation for numerous decades of reports of some sort of temporal connection between military or radioactive activity on this planet and some sort of increase in reports. Of sightings, activity, those for those things to occur temporally, the logical explanation that we can provide within the framework of math and physics and science that we have, the logical conclusion would be they don't have to travel that far.

• 26:18Mayim Bialik?

  Let's say aliens are within a light day of us. What should I practically be thinking about for a framework? Are they hiding in clear sight? You know, what does this look like?

• 26:31Speaker 02

  I mean, that's a good question. We don't know anything about them or their intentions or what they're up to. So it's hard to know exactly. You they probably have a if they come from an if they originate from another star system, then you would hypothesize that they have some type of, you know, base or colony or something like that here with, you know, the scale on no, it can't be a huge scale because we would have noticed already. So so it's in our and are they hiding? That's very possible. They could be they could be have a base on an asteroid in the asteroid belt and it would take forever to find that.

• 27:16Speaker 02

  They could be in our oceans, underground on Earth. You know, you could do the same for some of Jupiter's moons. Europa has a 60 mile deep ocean. They could be living there. They could be from Europa. You know, they might not actually be from another star system. They could also be from Earth. They might have lived here the whole time and we didn't know it. So that's another possibility. There's so many possibilities. It's hard to know. There's also the Michael Masters from in Montana has suggested they're time travelers. So it's. It's very hard to know what the situation is without being able to get hard data.

• 27:59Mayim Bialik?

  What hard data is the most compelling to you that supports that something is going on that is extraterrestrial, as it were?

• 28:08Speaker 02

  The most interesting for me has been the speeds and accelerations and the amount of power involved in some of these maneuvers and also their luminosities. That's one thing that Bruce Maccabee had looked at when he was alive and Jacques Vallée has looked at, and that is that some of these craft are very luminous, like bright, you know, burning people's eyes, people getting sunburnt. But these things are that luminous. And in fact, Jacques Vallée has a paper that came out last year in the same special issue that our paper came out in where they looked at a landing in northern Louisiana.

• 28:53Speaker 02

  And I think it was right at the border of Arkansas where the UFO had landed in a clearing and a physics professor had actually seen the light from the object and realized that this thing was putting out megawatts of light and literally stopped in the highway, turned his car, went the other way because I don't want to go anywhere near this thing. And that it actually scorched the trees. And so they did a study of the bark, the scorched bark, to get some idea about the energies involved. And so some of these, some of the UFOs are putting out hundreds of megawatts of light. It's basically a nuclear power plant amount of light being emitted. Why you would need to do that is beyond me.

• 29:37Speaker 02

  And that's shocking, but that's something that humans wouldn't be able to do or wouldn't bother doing. So it would be, so it's very strange.

• 29:48Jonathan Cohen?

  This is being written about, you know, when some people who aren't in the space hear about a claim like that, that there was a craft that landed and was observed. They can say, well, where's the picture? How come we didn't have a cellphone? How come we haven't, you know, back to the smoking gun? But the article Valerie just posted says, "Estimates of radiative energy values in ground-level observation of unidentified aerial phenomenon, new physical data." So people are writing about this.

• 30:21Speaker 02

  And in that case, there's hard data. There's actually the tree bark.

• 30:24Jonathan Cohen?

  You're like, what is happening in that tree bark? What is happening that it's being observed in that way?

• 30:31Mayim Bialik?

  Do all indications point to alien? Not necessarily.

• 30:36Speaker 02

  Not all of them do, yeah.

• 30:38Mayim Bialik?

  Right. You always have to think of, you know, is there an adversarial nation, experiment, terrorist, whatever, who is experimenting with things that we don't understand, especially if it's from a country with technology that is secretive or that we don't know about? You know, these are all sort of like the possibilities that are there. I think the question is, you know, why is it so elusive, Dr. Canute? Like, do you think that there's, you know, is there a plan to hide this and just sometimes they don't hide it well? Like, what is the message that's trying to be communicated with kind of intermittent and disparate visitations like this?

• 31:21Mayim Bialik?

  Is there a larger message that some of us might say, "Look, if this is happening, why is it happening sporadically? Why is it happening in this way? Is there interest, you know, and also like, I'm a contact fan, I'm an arrival fan, you know? Is this, is it a benevolent message? Is there, you know, something we should worry about? Could it be that they don't believe in nuclear war and they'd like to destroy all of the reactors because they know that there's a greater love and peace than we have been able to access on this planet?"

• 31:54Speaker 02

  First, you're absolutely right. They're not all, we know for a fact, they're not all alien spacecraft. I mean, most sightings have prosaic explanations and that's 97% of the sightings or so are, have prosaic explanations and are usually misidentified aircraft.

• 32:16Speaker 02

  Misidentified human aircraft, right? But UAP is still a class of objects, not a specific type of thing. So we don't have a taxonomy of what these things all are yet. So are some of them adversarial drones? Very probably. That's probably the case and probably a larger percentage of those than there are alien craft. The most compelling pieces of evidence are usually the amounts of energy and power involved.

• 32:46Speaker 02

  I mean, if you think about it, you're putting, you got something putting out hundreds of megawatts of light. It means you're dealing with that amount of power in your craft. Well, if you have a 1%, I mean, all of our, all of our human devices have some inefficiency to them. So even if it's 99% efficient, and most of our things are running around 20% efficiency, right? We're not, thermodynamics is hard. But if, even if they're really good, they got 99% efficiency. That means there's a 1% inefficiency. And if they're putting out 100 megawatts of light, that means they've got one megawatt of power going into waste heat inside the craft, which is incredibly dangerous.

• 33:31Speaker 02

  You wouldn't be able to do that. That wouldn't work. So, so it's not clear, it's not clear how to even interpret the results because we don't know how you could engineer something like that in the first place. Why you would do it and or how you would do it, it's, it's really not clear. And I think that's some of the most compelling pieces of evidence. But, but most, most sightings are not those things, right? And I think that's one thing that's been difficult. I mean, I still have, even scientists will ask me, how do UFOs fly? I said, well, they fly different, some fly differently than others. And we don't know all the different types of craft there are and.

• 34:12Speaker 02

  Takeoffs, I find takeoffs interesting because they almost never, observed takeoffs, almost never go from ground, the ground to zooming away. They don't, almost never do that. They get off the ground, some distance, hover for a second, and then zoom away. But how they get off the ground is different for a different craft. So in the Lonny Zamora case, in New Mexico, Socorro, New Mexico, um, this was, I don't remember the dates, the 60s, I guess, this craft, blimp-shaped craft, used something like rocket engines to get off the ground. It actually had a rocket blast and sagebrush was on fire, and then the thing hovered and then went, was gone. Whereas you have another case in, um,

• 34:55Speaker 02

  in France, where, um, the Amaranth case, where the, this thing was in a field, and the thing lifted off, but, um, but there were no, there were no sound, nothing, no flames, no sound, no histrionics. But the thing, as it lifts off, all the grass, like, pointed toward the thing, like it was statically charged. Um, so, so these craft are using different propulsion techniques. We don't even know what these, you know, we don't know the taxonomy even yet. We even, we even done the work of stamp collecting, yeah, which, so it's a hard, we're in a hard spot.

• 35:34Jonathan Cohen?

  How far apart were those examples? Like, is it that they're using different technology, or the technology that they have has, has advanced?

• 35:42Mayim Bialik?

  Socorro was 1964.

• 35:45Speaker 02

  And Amaranth was probably not, not too different.

• 35:48Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, the Socorro, um, example, it was, um, it was a sergeant that reported it, Sergeant Zamora. So this was a sergeant who called in what he thought was a, like, some sort of car accident or something. Um, I, I think this is another question, and that sort of brings up, like, who do we trust? Because when farmers were reporting that rocks were falling from the sky, and they were, you know, oh, those dumb farmers, they don't know what they're talking about. And then, you know, it was actually, things do fall from the sky. Um, how do we decide? Who to trust and what have you found in terms of evidence? You know, do we trust one person's report more than another person's report?

• 36:31Mayim Bialik?

  Because a lot of these things, you sort of have to first believe the report. You know, we talked with David Kipping about this, right? Like, how do you, as a scientist, decide what gets weight? What evidence kind of tips you from, I don't know, this sounds anecdotal, or maybe it was a hallucination, or maybe they were asleep? What tips the scale for you in terms of understanding who to trust?

• 36:56Speaker 02

  That's probably the hardest thing to deal with. I mean, most of the information we have is anecdotal evidence, which is not very trustworthy.

• 37:08Speaker 02

  I don't think anybody would would claim otherwise. What I typically do with it is I look at different anecdotes and I look for commonalities that are unexpected. And especially in older cases. In older cases, you didn't have the global communication that you do nowadays.

• 37:29Mayim Bialik?

  You didn't have the vernacular of, oh, they're going to expect me to say this, or if, or I'm going to lean towards that. So, older data is technically more isolated, in a good way.

• 37:39Speaker 02

  Typically, we'll focus on older cases, and you want to look for something that's unexpected. I mean, that's basically what you do with information theory. Information is related to entropy, but a good way to think about is it's the sum of p log p of your probability times the logarithm of the probability of the event that you're that you're thinking about. And you can think of the logarithm of the probability of an event as being, it's actually has a name, it's called the surprise, which is a great name for a physical for a quantity. So, the logarithm of a probability of a signal is is called the surprise. It's the minus the logarithm of the probability.

• 38:22Speaker 02

  If so, so the probability is small, then the surprise is large. So, so you want to, so you're, so I basically look through cases where you have something unexpected, where the surprise is high, right? And if you can find that there's some consistency across cases, especially across the world or over some periods of time, then I think that's more reliable.

• 38:49Mayim Bialik?

  What's one of your favorite surprises?

• 38:51Speaker 02

  So I have two, two favorite surprises. The first one has to do with cars shutting down. When a UFO hovers over a car, the car sometimes shuts down. Not all the time. Sometimes the car shuts down. And then sometimes when the car, when the UFO leaves, the car will start up again by itself.

• 39:11Mayim Bialik?

  What?

• 39:11Speaker 02

  Basically, the kinds of cars that get shut down were cars with spark plugs. So they're gasoline-powered cars, not diesel.

• 39:19Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 39:19Speaker 02

  The hypothesis is then that the UFO is putting out high electric fields and that's ionizing the air, which is shorting out the spark plugs.

• 39:34Mayim Bialik?

  Okay.

• 39:34Speaker 02

  And you short out the spark plug, so you kill the gasoline engine, but a diesel engine doesn't have spark plugs, so it isn't affected. So then why does the car start again sometimes when it leaves? And that was the most unexpected thing for me. I thought, that's just very weird. And McCambe wrote a paper in 1983 on cars restarting. And what happens is when you've got a high electric field, you're also shorting out the distributor cap. So you're shorting out that, too. So you've got current flowing to the primary ignition coil. So you've got a magnetic field around the primary ignition coil. Now, when

• 40:17Speaker 02

  the UFO leaves, the cap stops shorting, the current stops, the field collapses, but that induces a field into the secondary coil, which then sends a spark to one of the pistons. And if that piston is ready to fire, if it has an air gas mixture and it's ready to fire, it'll fire and that'll start the car. And it turns out, you can calculate how often that should happen. And it's rough. I don't remember the exact number. I'd have to pull it up, and I don't want to have to mess with it here. But I've worked that out. It's basically, it should happen like 10% of the time.

• 41:00Mayim Bialik?

  Wow.

• 41:00Speaker 02

  So what happens with observation? So here's the interesting surprise. From Mark Roderger's database of cars being shut down, I think there was something like 2,000 cases.

• 41:13Speaker 02

  200 of those people reported the cars restarting 10% of the time. So what about these cases? Well, those people were telling the truth. They all were. All 2,000 of them would have been telling the truth for the statistics to work, right? So they were dependable, at least in that

• 41:30Mayim Bialik?

  Rights.

• 41:31Speaker 02

  aspect of the description of what happened. The other one is one that got me more interested in the whole abduction phenomenon. Which, when I first got into this, I was like, I don't even want to think about that. That's, that seems crazy to me. And that was, I was watching a talk by John Mack, where he was a Harvard psychologist who had studied alien abductions. And got into it trying to understand what, what psychological thing is happening to these people so that they think they're helping abducted by aliens, right? And his conclusion was like, that's because they're being abducted by aliens, apparently. And so was his conclusion.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  So I was watching a video of a talk of his, and he talked about how when people are abducted by gray aliens, there were 60% of the people reported around the world that they were given babies to hold. Before they, so they would have some medical tests done, something medically done to them. And then before they were sent back home, they were given babies to hold. And I was like, wait, why would anyone report that? That's bizarre. And so that was one of the surprising things. But it turns out it's 60% of the cases.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  From Nepal to Congo to Chicago. It's, it's, again, something, and these are old cases. So these are things that you wouldn't expect.

• 43:04Mayim Bialik?

  When we're thinking impossibly, you know, what it means is that, you know, as kind of, as kind of Jeff describes it, it doesn't mean that you take everything off the table that you can't explain and say, well, I can explain everything and everything else doesn't make sense. What leaving everything on the table means that even the things that seem impossible, they, they exist. And even if you're looking at anecdotal reports, why would people from vastly disparate cultures and cultural narratives and social dynamics, I mean, look, and this is one of the things we can talk about, like, what does the human mind conjure, right? What do I have in common with someone in Nepal

• 43:48Mayim Bialik?

  and in Morocco and in Colombia, right? We all have a human brain and it can construct all sorts of things, but we also know that culture is incredibly influential on determining narratives and folklore and, right? Why would you have those kinds of similarities across the world? I mean, there has to be some explanation. I don't know if it's aliens, but it's certainly not nothing.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can't be sure that they are being given babies to hold by aliens. But you can be sure something's going, there's something interesting there, right? There's something that's, that's causing those correlations. So.

• 44:28Mayim Bialik?

  I'm kind of like hearing the skeptic being like, well, I'm sure lots of things happened, right? But we're not talking about finding similarities between, oh, these people walked on two feet and therefore aliens exist, right? We're not talking about reports of something that's mundane or banal. We're talking about specific things that seem to keep popping up all over the world in ways that we cannot explain. And it's not enough, especially from a scientific perspective, to say it must be bull. Like, that's not an explanation.

• 45:04Speaker 02

  It's something that calls for study and calls for an explanation. And I think that's really all you can say about it.

• 45:11Mayim Bialik?

  We're going to hit pause here on our conversation with Dr. Knuth, but there is so much more coming up in part two. We're going to talk about angel hair, this caterpillar silk that seems to appear in blankets over regions that have experienced UFO sightings. We're going to talk about the intelligence motivations of non-human species. How much does the government know? What does Actually have access to, and then we'll get into remote viewing, extrasensory perception, and his personal experience with the impossible. All of that and more in part two of our conversation with Dr. Kevin Canuth. From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have, we'll see you next time.

• 45:55Speaker 04

  It's my impiolics breakdown. She's gonna break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. One fiction, one. And now she's gonna break down, so break down. She's gonna break it down.