Landon Cassill, Professional NASCAR Driver: How Buying Bitcoin Is Like NASCAR

Landon Cassill is a professional NASCAR driver and a Bitcoin and crypto enthusiast. In this conversation, Landon and Anthony Pompliano discuss what it's like growing up to race professionally, how he broke into NASCAR, what actually goes on inside the car during a race, how Landon got into crypto, and what he's currently doing in the space today. BLOCKFI-----BlockFi allows you to keep your crypto, put it up as collateral, and receive a USD loan funded directly to your bank account. They do loans ranging from $2,000 to $10,000,000, and they're perfect for helping you reach your financial goals of all sizes. Visit BlockFi.com/Pomp to learn more about putting your crypto to work without having to sell it. CRYPTO. COM-----Crypto.com is a pioneering payment and cryptocurrency platform that seeks to accelerate the world's transition to cryptocurrency. With the vision of "cryptocurrency in every wallet", the Crypto.com App offers a full range of financial products with competitive pricing, well designed UX and high security. It is the best place to buy, sell and pay with crypto. COINMINE-----The Coinmine One is like an Xbox that turns your electricity into Bitcoin. You just plug it in, connect to wifi, and tap on the crypto you want. It’s so easy anyone can do it. Everything is controlled from the Coinmine mobile app and the Coinmine keeps getting better with over the air updates that add new coins, features and services to your Coinmine. Visit coinmine.com/pomp to get a Coinmine and earn crypto for powering a new world.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to Off the Chain, simply the best podcast in crypto. Let's kick this thing off. Landon Castle is a professional NASCAR driver and Bitcoin and crypto enthusiast. In this conversation, we discuss what it is like growing up to race professionally, how he broke into NASCAR, what actually goes on inside the car during a race, how Landon got into crypto, and what he is currently doing in the space today. I really enjoyed this conversation, and I hope you do as well. Skrt skrt! Wanna know who has the best URL? Crypto.com. That's right, Crypto.com.

• 0:44Anthony Pompliano?

  They're a crypto platform with one goal: motherf***ing mass adoption. That's why we're all here. We're trying to get crypto in every wallet. Crypto.com is helping people do that through buying, earning, lending, and card payment. Everything you could want at Crypto.com. Go help your boy out, tell him Pomp sent you. Download the app or visit Crypto.com. Pomp's got you, always. Ever wanted to get into mining and didn't know how? Don't worry, your boy Pomp's got you. Everybody got some electricity and wifi. All you gotta do is go to CoinMine.com, you buy a coin mine. It's like an Xbox or a Playstation that helps you turn your electricity into Bitcoin. That's right, you purchase it, it shows up at your doorstep, you pull it out of the

• 1:27Anthony Pompliano?

  box, you plug it in, connect to your wifi, five minutes or less, you're mining Bitcoin. All you have to do is control it from the mobile app they provide, and then you receive over-the-air updates that add new coins and new features on a consistent basis. Kinda like how Tesla does over-the-air updates and updates the car software. Just your update in your coin mine. Consumer mining made easy. That's right, go to CoinMine.com, tell them Pomp sent you, and thank me later. As many of you know, crypto investors store their digital assets on exchanges or in cold storage for long-term safekeeping. However, this strategy doesn't help them grow their investment holdings or build overall wealth. With the new BlockFi interest account, users can now securely store their Bitcoin

• 2:10Anthony Pompliano?

  or Ether at BlockFi and receive 6% annual interest, paid monthly in cryptocurrency. 6% is an absurdly high rate. It's the best rate in the industry. I highly suggest you go check out blockfi.com/pomp. Again, that's blockfi.com/pomp to sign up and start earning crypto today.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano is a partner at Morgan Creek Digital. All opinions expressed by Pomp or his guests on this podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Morgan Creek Digital or Morgan Creek Capital Management. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 2:55Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, guys. Bang, bang. I'm sitting here with Landon. We are in Las Vegas for a few conferences, but I wanted to sit down real quick and talk. Landon and I have actually known each other for a while now, and I think that the secret's kind of out, that you're into crypto, Bitcoin, etc. But I figured we'd sit down and actually talk about it.

• 3:15Speaker 02

  Was it a secret? Is there ever a secret?

• 3:17Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, listen.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  For some people, it might be a secret.

• 3:19Anthony Pompliano?

  You're a professional athlete, so I don't know if secrets are allowed in professional sports.

• 3:25Speaker 02

  I don't think it has to be a secret. If there's anybody out there that's keeping it a secret that you're in crypto, if you're an athlete, I don't think you need to come on out of the closet.

• 3:34Anthony Pompliano?

  To hide it?

• 3:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, it doesn't have to be hidden.

• 3:36Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Let's start kind of early, early on, right? So pretty much everyone in racing seems to start when they're like a little kid, and there's this whole kind of series of leagues and all this stuff that you kind of work your way up to NASCAR or other racing leagues. Did you do that? And kind of where did you grow up? And what was your path into all this?

• 3:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, there's really no... definitive path to NASCAR. It's not like the NFL or NBA where it's it's pretty obvious that you start out in a Pee Wee football or basketball and play in high school and college. Um, in motorsports, you can, there's a lot of different forms of motorsports that you can start out and and it can take you to a lot of different places. I mean, there's drivers that might start out thinking they're gonna go Indy car racing and end up going NASCAR racing or vice versa. Um, I'm

• 4:29Anthony Pompliano?

  And for those that don't know, just separate out at at kind of the professional level, there's Indy car, which is more open wheel type racing, Indy 500.

• 4:39Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 4:39Anthony Pompliano?

  NASCAR is

• 4:40Speaker 02

  Stock car racing, cars with fenders, Daytona 500.

• 4:44Anthony Pompliano?

  Yep.

• 4:45Speaker 02

  Uh, Dale Earnhardt, Jeff Gordon, Jimmy Johnson.

• 4:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. Landon Castle.

• 4:49Speaker 02

  Landon Castle, yes. Uh, I'm from Iowa. I'm from Cedar Rapids, Iowa, and uh, dirt racing is a huge thing in Iowa, but I didn't actually grow up dirt racing because um, I raced in go-karts, which is pretty typical uh, for kids between the ages of four and 12. Um, and I had really raced a lot in go-karts um, by the time I was 12 years old and I was kinda ready to get into full-size cars and and my dad

• 5:16Anthony Pompliano?

  At 12?

• 5:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, my my dad didn't wanna get, you know, stuck um, racing go-karts for too long. Um, and there, the dirt tracks in Iowa wouldn't allow me to race until I was 16. So, uh, there's one asphalt track in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, my hometown, called Hawkeye Down Speedway, and um, they allowed me to race um, when I was 12 to 14 years old in their full-size cars. So that's how I started racing on asphalt and on pavement, um, even though I was kind of heading down a dirt racing path. Um, and from there, um, there was a touring series in full-bodied cars that looked similar to a NASCAR-type race car

• 6:01Speaker 02

  um, that was traveling the country and they allowed 14-year-old drivers. So, when I was 14, I started traveling the country racing in what was called the ASA Late Model Series.

• 6:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, so At 12 years old, uh, I couldn't even reach the foot pedals. Like, like, what is it like being 12 and, you know, your dad saying to you, hey, you're gonna get in a real car.

• 6:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:21Anthony Pompliano?

  You're gonna drive on the pavement and I'm assuming you're competing against like

• 6:25Speaker 02

  Adults, yeah.

• 6:25Anthony Pompliano?

  Older teenagers or adults.

• 6:27Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:27Anthony Pompliano?

  How fast are these things going?

• 6:29Speaker 02

  Uh, the, the first full-size car that I drove was a, um, uh, was called an IMCA Modified. So it was an open-wheel car. It kind of, it doesn't look like an Indy car, but, but to someone that doesn't know anything about racing, you might think it's closer to an Indy car than it is a stock car. But, uh, the, the front suspension and the, the frame itself is like an old, uh, Monte Carlo.

• 6:49Anthony Pompliano?

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  Um, it just doesn't have a body on it. It just doesn't have fenders. And it had about 400 horsepower and weighed 2,500 pounds. And, um, I was 12 and I weighed about 100 pounds. And, uh, I was racing against adults. Yeah. And, and it was, um, um, it was quite an experience. It's, you know, at that age, you make a lot of mistakes and, um, the mistakes have bigger penalties than, than when you're racing a go-kart. And my dad, you really had a policy from the time I started racing that he would support the best, you know, in the ways that he could support. Um, but I had to fix whatever I crashed.

• 7:28Speaker 02

  So, uh, growing up, starting in those Modifieds, racing in late models, now you have a car that has fenders on it. It's a little bit easier to lean into people, maybe crash someone, uh, whether it's on accident or on purpose. Um, my dad would pay for it, but I had to, to physically fix it myself.

• 7:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Very cool.

• 7:46Speaker 02

  So that kind of taught me, uh, from a young age how to, how to take care of my equipment.

• 7:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And, and probably, uh, I don't wanna crash 'cause I don't wanna fix it type attitude?

• 7:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. There was one time, uh, that I, that I had an incident with another driver that was, um, pretty intentional on my part, um, in retaliation and, uh, and it caused some damage to my car. And I was 16 and my dad made me pay for it. And um, that was, we don't want to stick, I didn't have any money, so it was like a couple thousand dollars and um, I had to pretty much use my winnings that I had been earning um, to pay for the wrecked car, so I learned my lesson.

• 8:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, a- and so at twelve to fourteen, how fast do those cars go?

• 8:24Speaker 02

  Uh, but at the track that I was racing on, about a hundred, hundred and ten miles an hour.

• 8:29Anthony Pompliano?

  You bet twelve years old, you're going a hundred and ten miles an hour?

• 8:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, mid-corner speeds, probably sixty miles an hour. Um, I mean, you're talking about, like I said, four hundred horsepower, you, you're, you know, full throttle down the straightaways, you're driving it into the corner, you have to lift, you have to use a lot of brake pressure. Um, you know, you have to control the car from sliding and spinning out, and you have to try to maneuver your way around other, other cars. It's not just pushing the gas down and, and being flat out uh, the whole track.

• 8:56Anthony Pompliano?

  I can't imagine going a hundred and ten.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  Driving a stick shift with a clutch and, and everything.

• 9:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, wow. Uh, all right, and then the NASCAR uh, stock cars that uh, you drive today, um, those go at what, two twenty?

• 9:10Speaker 02

  Uh, I have gone two twenty in a, in a NASCAR race car. Um, it's a- at this point in NASCAR, it really depends on the aero package that NASCAR and the, the rules, limitations that we have. The fastest I've gone is at Michigan International Speedway, I've gone over two hundred twenty miles an hour when we had nine hundred horsepower and, and small spoilers, so the cars didn't have a lot of drag. And I mean, that's just, that's just, you're just carrying a lot of speed and it's um, for a three thousand pound car, um, that's pretty fast. It's hard on the tires, it's hard on equipment to go that fast. Right now, our cars go about two hundred miles an hour. We race this weekend at Texas Motor Speedway, our cars will go about two hundred miles an hour.

• 9:51Speaker 02

  And um, I mean, our mid-corner speeds at Texas will be a hundred and seventy-five, a hundred and eighty miles an hour.

• 9:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Wow, so on the straightaways, you'll hit on average, I'll say about two hundred miles an hour, but into those corners and turns, it's really not that big of a difference. I mean, twenty miles an hour is twenty miles an hour, but it's not like you're going from two hundred and breaking down to a hundred and fifty.

• 10:10Speaker 02

  Particularly at Texas this weekend, that's because of our aero package, uh, we have a really big spoiler, our cars make a lot of downforce. And uh, when we have fresh, new tires on the car, uh, the weather's gonna be cool this weekend. Uh, one end of the racetrack, turn three and four, has a lot of banking to it, and we can run wide open through that corner without lifting. So you're talking about, you know. At the end of tur- at the end of the backstretch, we're, you know, almost 190, almost 200 miles an hour and you're not lifting, so uh mid-corner speeds are pretty high.

• 10:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Wow.

• 10:43Speaker 02

  Pulling two or three Gs through the corner.

• 10:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Going uh 200 miles an hour is one thing, going 200 miles an hour through a turn is crazy.

• 10:50Speaker 02

  It's not that bad, you know, our cars are uh cars are built to go that fast, so uh they handle fairly well. Um at times they don't, you know, and that's all relative to your competitors, but um you know, they're supposed to go that fast, so uh it's it's harder to drive them at 140 miles an hour because they're not making downforce, they're not making grip. Um at 200 miles an hour, that's how fast they want to go. Uh the real problem is when they have to stop all of a sudden.

• 11:14Anthony Pompliano?

  Yep.

• 11:14Speaker 02

  Uh that's usually when bad things happen.

• 11:16Anthony Pompliano?

  For sure. And and so let's go back to you. So you're like 16, right? Fourteen, sixteen, you start touring, uh you're still in school, obviously, so you're like, have kind of two lives, it almost feels like, and I'm assuming most kids at school are, think it's pretty cool that, you know, you're driving 100 miles an hour on the weekends. Um well, how do you get from that to NASCAR? Like, what does that path look like, once you kind of realize, hey, I want to go do this professionally? Uh what what does that look like?

• 11:41Speaker 02

  So fortunately for me during that time period and during that age, um the the path that we were racing and the touring series that we were racing was um was a really good path to get to NASCAR. The teams that had that were flush with money, that the manufacturers that had a lot of money to spend on driver development, on young driver development. Uh they were looking at asphalt late model racers, which is what I was doing as the the next drivers. There's been, like I said, the mo- where I mentioned earlier, the multiple different paths. You have dirt racers and sprint car drivers, people that race um in in sports cars and road courses. Uh they can all kind of end up in the same place, but that was a time period where the most, two most prevalent

• 12:26Speaker 02

  um types of drivers were coming from um open wheel midgets and sprint cars on dirt and and late models, asphalt late models, so um by the time I was 16 years old, well, by the time I was 15, 16 years old, I had been scouted by an agent. Um I had been signed to an agency. And I was racing sixty, seventy times a year. And um, I signed a contract. I actually did a sort of an audition. It was kind of like a gong show audition. Uh, with with Chevrolet with um, sixteen other drivers. And um, they all put us in race cars and we showed our stuff in front of each other for for.

• 13:07Anthony Pompliano?

  And like went on race.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  Different tests. We didn't race, but it was a test. So you drove by yourself on the track. You had to rate, you had to drive the car for a certain period of time. They took a lot of notes. They they looked at your data. The car was outfitted with telemetry. So they looked at your driving style. They listened to your feedback. And um, I mean, there are some pretty impressive drivers that were in that test. Joey Logano, who's a NASCAR champion, was in that test. Um, he actually was the the the number one ranked driver that came out of that test and had a contract with Joe Gibbs Racing.

• 13:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Wow.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  Uh, from there and there was a Chevy team at the time. Um, I was the number two ranked driver out of that test and I got a contract uh, um, with Hendrick Motorsports. Um, out of that test. Ryan Hunter-Reay, Indy five hundred champion was in that test. So there was some big names back then. This was over, this is twelve, thirteen years ago. So. Um, but like I said, I got a contract with Hendrick Motorsports, uh, became a test driver for Hendrick. Tested Jimmy Johnson's cars, Jeff Gordon's cars, uh.

• 14:04Anthony Pompliano?

  And how old were you when this was going on?

• 14:06Speaker 02

  I was seventeen.

• 14:07Anthony Pompliano?

  So you're seventeen and still in school, but also being a test driver for these guys, you've got to be like, these dudes are legends.

• 14:14Speaker 02

  So I actually finished, I was, I'm young for my grade. I was, I'm, I graduated high school when I was seventeen. And um, so this all was kind of happening in my senior, going into my senior year of high school. And I had enough credits that I um, was able to finish high school. Uh, in my, after my first semester and.

• 14:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Senior year.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  Senior year.

• 14:36Anthony Pompliano?

  I did the same thing.

• 14:37Speaker 02

  And so I moved to North Carolina with my grandma. Um, and her and I lived together for the first three or four years.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  Me racing professionally. And so uh, the the timing all worked out where my contract with Hendrick came up at the exact same time that I was finishing high school.

• 14:54Anthony Pompliano?

  That's awesome. And and so you, you know, go from literally. In the cafeteria at high school to all of a sudden now you're test driving Jeff Gordon's cars, uh, for Hendrick Motorsports. What are you doing on a day-to-day basis and are you kind of like starstruck at the time? Or are you like, hey, I'm here to kind of, you know, get into these NASCAR races and start winning races?

• 15:15Speaker 02

  I was pretty starstruck at the time. I mean, my first-

• 15:17Anthony Pompliano?

  I can imagine.

• 15:18Speaker 02

  One of my first jobs at Hendrick, uh, was to drive, uh, Jeff Gordon's Daytona 500 primary car for 2007, uh, at a straight line test. So we used to go to proving grounds, uh, where there was, they had like runways basically with, with several miles of straight lines and you would take the car and you'd drive it in a straight line as fast as it would go and they would collect aero data and that's how they would, um, build their aero maps for their simulation models. So, um-

• 15:49Anthony Pompliano?

  Wow.

• 15:50Speaker 02

  One of my first jobs was to drive his primary car for the upcoming Daytona 500.

• 15:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Uh, and now that he, in those large teams, uh, a driver has different cars for different races? Or are they taking one car and for each race they're actually changing the, uh, aerodynamics and the different components of it, but it's the same car and kind of chassis and just changes per race?

• 16:12Speaker 02

  Uh, it's, at, at that time, um, there was different cars for different races. Uh, and it's still that way now. NASCAR has, the, the rules have kind of adapted to where NASCAR is, NASCAR's really tried to make it to where you can run the same car at, um, as many times as possible. But ultimately, there's, there's no spending cap and there's no limit on the car. There's no VIN number, right? That, that NASCAR tracks. There's no limit on how many times you can run a car. And the biggest teams that have the biggest budgets, what they're really doing is, is building, um, cars and-

• 16:49Speaker 02

  And when I say cars, chassis and bodies, right? So you have the chassis, which is sort of a mechanical side of it. And then the body, which is the aero side of it. Those cars are unique to pretty much each racetrack. So they might have a chassis configuration with an aero configuration that works at five or six different tracks. They have a chassis configuration and aero configuration that works at two or three other tracks that are similar to each other. They probably have anywhere from nine to 10 different iterations over the 38 race schedule that we have. So a lot of what that testing that I did was developing the different aero maps and the simulation models.

• 17:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Yep.

• 17:30Speaker 02

  For them to research those cars, to build those cars. I mean, the biggest race teams, they're manufacturing companies. So it's a huge, there's a huge facility to build, research and build these cars.

• 17:43Anthony Pompliano?

  So I want to talk a little bit about, and you've been kind enough to kind of give me the crash course on racing really comes down to money. Right?

• 17:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:50Anthony Pompliano?

  And money, meaning the team structures are very unique in that unlike other sports, as you mentioned, there's no spending caps. There's no kind of like salary cap type requirement.

• 18:02Speaker 02

  There's no drivers' union.

• 18:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, yeah. And so help me understand that there's like kind of large cap teams, I'll call them, or large teams. And there's a smaller, more budget type teams. On the large team side, most of these are car manufacturers or have some relationship with a car manufacturer. Talk a little bit of how that manufacturing relationship works. And then how does that trickle down into the hardware or the actual car they can put on the track and the advantages that brings by them having access to that cap?

• 18:32Speaker 02

  Yep. So that's one of my most exciting things to talk about right now in NASCAR. And the initial conversation paints a little bit of a bleak picture of how our sport works. And then the light at the end of the tunnel is where the sport is headed. So I'll walk you through that. Right now, you have the biggest teams right now, like Hendrick Motorsports, Joe Gibbs Racing, RCR, Stewart Haas. And those teams are supported by the big auto manufacturers, Toyota, Ford, Chevrolet.

• 19:05Speaker 02

  Now, those teams also have the biggest sponsorships. They're the most well-funded. They have the best talent, the best leadership, the best engineering, the best drivers. And NASCAR has a rulebook that we have to abide by when we build our race cars. But ultimately, even though those rulebooks have, the rulebook has really tight tolerances, we're still responsible for building and manufacturing and designing our cars to fit those tolerances. So each team, even multiple different Chevy teams, right? The car that I drive is a Chevy and the car that Hendrick Motorsports is building is a Chevy. Each team is responsible for their own manufacturing process and they're responsible for their own proprietary components.

• 19:47Speaker 02

  So, right now, the biggest teams are able to take the support that they get from the manufacturers, which is money, engineering support, you know, you have a manufacturer like Toyota. They write a check to the teams, but they also have their own engineering facilities where they provide wind tunnel testing and chassis engineering and all, and research and development support. Those, those teams are building race cars from scratch. They're building chassis from scratch. We don't buy them from anywhere. They're building them from scratch, they're building the bodies, they're taking the cars to the wind tunnel. Their, their R and D in those bodies, they're, they're honing them in, even if it's to the thousands of an inch.

• 20:29Speaker 02

  They're building, they have engineering teams that are building simulation. So, these cars are, I mean, it's, machine learning is a big thing in, for, for the big manufacturers.

• 20:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Because it feels like there's a lot of data that goes into this, right? Like, it almost feels like it's an iterative process, very similar like software development, where you say, alright, we have kind of our first guess, so we're gonna put that into the chassis and aerodynamics.

• 20:55Speaker 02

  And they're constantly reiterating it, they're constantly relearning and then going back to the manufacturing plant, which they own or they, they develop, and, and re-manufacturing new parts and pieces. So, those are the teams that are having the most success. The challenge for the smaller teams in the sport right now are that it is, it is so... It's so hard to catch up with that, especially when those big teams are subsidized by the auto manufacturers. Because those auto manufacturers are not subsidizing the smaller teams like they are the big teams. So if you're a small team coming into the sport, it's actually more cost effective for you to just go to one of those big teams and pay them a licensing fee to use their technology.

• 21:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. So the big team takes the resources from the auto manufacturer, plus whatever else they have in sponsorships, etc. They're able to iterate faster, they, in theory-

• 21:46Speaker 02

  Create a competitive advantage.

• 21:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Better technology, etc.

• 21:49Speaker 02

  Which is okay, right? Though it's a competition sport, we want to create a competitive advantage.

• 21:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Yep.

• 21:53Speaker 02

  The flaw in that is that they're able, they're taking that competitive advantage and they're able to sort of suppress their competition by selling

• 22:03Speaker 02

  whatever it is, however much they want of their technology back to their competition.

• 22:08Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. So then they take that, let's say that they've made a car that goes at a certain track 215 miles an hour. They could technically sell to a competing team technology that makes the car go 205 miles an hour, right? And that competing team may or may not understand that they're buying kind of inferior technology or configuration. And the team that is, the larger team that's been subsidized and has the capital, they're kind of making that decision, it sounds like there's not that much transparency into this, etc. Is that accurate?

• 22:38Speaker 02

  Um, well, I mean, there's, it depends on the individual relationships with the larger teams and the smaller teams. I mean, there's been some, there's plenty of cases, I would imagine, where there isn't much transparency and the bigger team is is charging the smaller team a lot of money and the smaller team may or may not know if they're getting the most updated parts or the most updated technology. Or, let's just say, instead of making assumptions, let's just say in the most, in the most authentic way, the big team that has 600 employees and, you know, spends $30 million per car that they field. Is sharing all of their information with the smaller team that's paying for this information. Well, the smaller team with lesser employees, even with all that information, still lacks the manufacturing capabilities.

• 23:24Speaker 02

  And and the manpower to keep up with the iterations that the big team has or is capable of, right? And then it also, um, they also, those big teams have leverage over those small teams to control the price of that licensing fee. It's called a technical alliance in our business, so.

• 23:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Technical alliance?

• 23:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, technical alliance. So the big teams, you know, if the small team, I, let's just, I mean, you could game theory this, right? I'm not making an assumption, but let's just game theory it. If a big team is selling a technical alliance to a small team and the small team ends up outrunning the big team, what are they gonna do? They're gonna jack up the price of their technical alliance, right? So it's, um, and the same goes with the engine business. The engine business is the same way. The big teams, Hendrick Motorsports, um, I mean, they, they own the engine business. So they own their engine business and they sell, uh, they lease the engines to the, to smaller teams. So, um, there's a lot of incentive for Hendrick Motorsports on the engine side of things to make sure that, first of all, they're getting the best engines that they can get.

• 24:28Speaker 02

  Um, and then their customers, they obviously need to build a quality product to their customers. But, um, I mean, they, they control the price of, they, they control the price of their own customers' costs to go racing. Through, um, through their engine leases. So, um, that's the kind of interesting dynamic in the sport that makes it challenging to, for, for upward mobility in NASCAR or for a team owner. Uh, the, the light at the end of the tunnel is that NASCAR is, is, is taking a serious move at, at changing that model.

• 25:01Anthony Pompliano?

  And where do they want to move to? Like, what does that, that new model look like, you think?

• 25:05Speaker 02

  NASCAR is really is, um, they're not just looking at, they're, they're, they're making moves. And in two thousand and twenty-one, we're gonna be racing with a single-source manufactured race car. So.

• 25:17Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, interesting. So everyone will use the same manufactured car?

• 25:21Speaker 02

  For all the parts and, yeah, for all the, all the cars, parts and pieces. It'll be, um, it'll be sourced from, or, or each piece that we have to buy will be sourced from the same place.

• 25:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And can you make, uh, changes or adaptations or enhancements to those parts once you get them? Or will it be almost the identical car for everyone?

• 25:42Speaker 02

  In right now, the spirit of the project is that it will all be identical, right? So, um, our, our sport is competitive and we're already tuned up to with manufacturing plants and we're already pretty savvy when it comes to looking at a part and saying, how can we improve this? So, um, I can promise you that teams are gonna look at parts that they're, that they're forced to buy, right, that we have to put on the car and they're gonna figure out a way to make it better within

• 26:13Anthony Pompliano?

  The rules.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  The rules, right? So I would say that NASCAR is still has a decision to make on how they're gonna police that and how they're gonna make sure that parts haven't been manipulated or compromised. Um, and you know, the, I would imagine there'll be big penalties that come with that. Um, NASCAR is probably going to be putting some sort of long, long-term freeze on the car so that the car can hold its value, right? So that you don't buy a car and race with it and then six months later, there's all of a sudden a new car that we have to buy.

• 26:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Yep.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  And then they're also gonna put a limit on how many cars you can own. So you can't just buy thirty-eight cars for all thirty-eight races.

• 26:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it.

• 26:53Speaker 02

  You might have to buy seven cars and figure out a way to make it through the whole season with seven cars.

• 26:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Make it work, got it. And, and, um, this is very similar, so, uh, I don't think I've ever told you this before, but, uh, I have someone that, um, I know, a gentleman, uh, Lucas Degrassi, who, uh, used to be a Formula One racer and, uh, and then, um, was part of and now races in Formula E. So it's open-wheel racing for electric vehicles, right? And, uh, if I remember correctly, he had told me that Formula E, everyone uses the exact same car.

• 27:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 27:25Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? And so it's this idea that, um, the, uh, advantage is not in the equipment. It's in what, who's behind the wheel.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  Right.

• 27:33Anthony Pompliano?

  And it makes it more competitive and therefore it actually makes it more entertaining.

• 27:36Speaker 02

  And not just who's behind the wheel, but, but who, because it's not all about the driver. Even if you're in the same, even if everybody has the same car, the same hardware, um, you still have a race strategist, you still have, um, general managers, you still have pit crews, right? So, um, like in, in Formula E, he, they have strategists and then it's about your communication with your team and how well you can set the car up and how well the driver can give feedback and, and, and build a car that's balanced for the race.

• 28:07Speaker 02

  And, and you know, one of the, one of the, the questions that NASCAR has to answer to their manufacturers are where are you going to let the manufacturers compete, right? If you're going to standardize every part and piece on the car, um, you know, there's still a huge marketing incentive for Toyota to be the title sponsor of a race team because there's 70 million race fans and 5 million viewers on TV every week. But, I mean, do you want to develop some technology in our sport? And if you do, where do you want to develop that technology?

• 28:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Yep.

• 28:38Speaker 02

  Right? So like in Formula E, um, the, to my understanding, the cars are standardized, like you said, but the manufacturers have some freedom to compete with each other in the drivetrain technology, right?

• 28:49Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it.

• 28:49Speaker 02

  Formula E, electric, you know, they're, they're, they're, there's, it's pretty reasonable for them to think, hey, let's come in and, and use this motorsports platform as a way to help develop our, our EV.

• 29:00Anthony Pompliano?

  For sure.

• 29:01Speaker 02

  Technology.

• 29:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Speaking of that, um, will NASCAR ever go electric, you think? What, what's kind of the?

• 29:06Speaker 02

  Oh, sure. I think, yeah, I could see that. I mean, in, right now, the, the first phase of this sort of single source manufactured model is, is the cars and the bodies and the chassis and, and actually they're, they're looking at, at some sort of spending cap, some sort of way to, um, keep the teams from just running away with their funding. Uh, but the second phase of it is going to be the engine and the powertrain. Um, and, and they're looking at some sort of hybrid regenerative energy to use for, um, and the conversations have been anything from a push to pass button, like you've seen in Indy car racing, to letting the cars run off of their electric power source under

• 29:46Speaker 02

  cautions so that maybe it's like, uh, a timeout during a basketball game where the stadium gets quiet and you can talk again and you can, you know, check your phone. Um, it's just a lot of creative ideas, but ultimately, um, I think NASCAR is, is very well aware of where the auto industry is going and where they could end up. But it's hard to shake the idea of a V8, you know?

• 30:07Anthony Pompliano?

  I was gonna say, it feels like that's like NASCAR is like the ultimate American sport, right? And, uh, and having electric vehicles, something about it doesn't feel right.

• 30:16Speaker 02

  Right.

• 30:16Anthony Pompliano?

  And I'm not even a, a huge race fan, but, uh, but obviously that's where the industry goes.

• 30:20Speaker 02

  Right. But see NASCAR has three major national series. We have two series that race cars that are actually pretty similar to each other, the Cup Series and the Xfinity Series. And the Xfinity Series is kind of like the feeder series to the Cup Series, but ultimately the cars are kind of the same. And then we have a truck series, right? So it makes sense to have a truck series. You know, you're selling trucks on one end, you're selling cars on the other end. I, and this is just me talking, I'm not speaking for the sport, but maybe the Xfinity series someday could be the EV series, right? And that technology could be there and the cup series could be what it is.

• 30:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Skrt, skrt. Want to know who has the best URL? Crypto.com. That's right. Crypto.com. They're a crypto platform with one goal. Motherf***ing mass adoption. That's why we're all here. We're trying to get crypto in every wallet. Crypto.com is helping people do that through buying, earning, lending and card payment. Everything you could want at crypto.com. Go help your boy out, tell him Pomp sent you. Download the app or visit crypto.com. Pomp's got you, always. Ever wanted to get into mining and didn't know how? Don't worry, your boy Pomp's got you. Everybody got some electricity and wifi. All you gotta do is go to coinmine.com, you buy a coin mine, it's like an Xbox or a Playstation

• 31:36Anthony Pompliano?

  that helps you turn your electricity into Bitcoin. That's right. You purchase it, it shows up at your doorstep, you pull it out of the box, you plug it in, connect to your wifi, five minutes or less, you're mining Bitcoin. All you have to do is control it from the mobile app they provide and then you receive over-the-air updates that add new coins and new features on a consistent basis. Kinda like how Tesla does over-the-air updates and updates the car software. Just your update in your coin mine. Consumer mining made easy. That's right. Go to coinmine.com, tell them Pomp sent you and thank me later. One more word from our sponsor BlockFi. Their new interest account allows you to securely deposit your Bitcoin or Ether at

• 32:16Anthony Pompliano?

  BlockFi and receive 6% annual interest paid monthly in cryptocurrency. This rate actually compounds, so you receive a 6.2% APY, which is very attractive given the alternatives. So you can actually take your Bitcoin, you can deposit it with BlockFi and get paid an interest rate of 6% in return. Go check out blockfi.com/pomp, again, blockfi.com/pomp to sign up and start earning interest on your crypto today. What's the difference in the spending of the large cap teams versus the small cap teams? Are we talking about, you know, half a billion dollars to like $5 million? Or is it, you know, much closer like 20 million to 10 million dollars?

• 32:58Speaker 02

  Uh, you have cars at the very highest end, probably spending a million per race on their program.

• 33:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, and there's 38 races?

• 33:07Speaker 02

  38 races, yep. And then on the very low end, you probably have cars that spend a hundred thousand a race.

• 33:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, so 10x though?

• 33:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:14Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, pretty, uh, pretty big difference there.

• 33:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:17Anthony Pompliano?

  And, um, of the team sizes, you said that some of the larger guys might have 600 employees.

• 33:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:23Anthony Pompliano?

  What does that look like on the lower end?

• 33:24Speaker 02

  So the, the largest teams that those, those that are spending a million a race probably are of that size. Um, and a team that's spending a hundred thousand a race probably has anywhere from 10 to 25 employees.

• 33:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. Okay, so, so again, pretty material, uh, difference there. Um, all right, so you've been doing racing for a while.

• 33:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:43Anthony Pompliano?

  And, uh, you're into crypto.

• 33:45Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 33:46Anthony Pompliano?

  So how, how did you first hear about Bitcoin, uh, crypto, et cetera? Um, and then what'd you do once you heard about it?

• 33:54Speaker 02

  Uh, I heard, I first heard about it in 2013 and, uh, really through racing because in 2014, a good friend of mine, Josh Wise, who hopefully some listeners on this podcast know who Josh Wise is because he drove the Dogecoin sponsored car a couple of times in, in NASCAR. And the, um, the Dogecoin community on Reddit came together and crowdfunded sponsorship for a race car. And they even, they even, believe it or not, this is crazy as is, and this is why the inter, the internet is undefeated. Um, they crowdfunded the fan vote to get him into the All-Star race.

• 34:34Anthony Pompliano?

  Really?

• 34:34Speaker 02

  And they beat Danica Patrick to, to get Josh into the All-Star race. Josh is a very close friend of mine and, um, I was, I was, you know, really shotgun with him through this whole process.

• 34:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Um, because how much did they have to, uh, crowdfund to get the sponsorship?

• 34:50Speaker 02

  I think they raised six figures.

• 34:54Speaker 02

  Um, over the course of all of the stuff that they did, I think they spent, they Doge, the community came up with a hundred thousand dollars at least.

• 35:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Wow.

• 35:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, and it was, it was a huge impact on his team at the time. I mean, his team had no sponsorship and they, they filled some major gaps in the schedule. And it was really good for Josh, you know, and so, uh, I was really, I loved it. I was super into it and, and, um, that was my first intro to cryptocurrency and.

• 35:22Anthony Pompliano?

  I've never had anyone come on and say, the first time I introduced was through Dogecoin.

• 35:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I mean, look, man, it's that, honestly, that, that, that's just proves to you the, uh, uh, the power of energy and positive energy and community, uh, which is, is the, maybe one of the core tenants of, uh, of crypto right now, one of the foundations that's the, that keeps it together. Uh, but for me, I, um, you know, once I've, once I understood, you know, my first impression of Bitcoin was this, this, you know, online money, right? And, and I didn't really get it. But once I understood the financial sovereignty side of it, I was like, pretty interesting. Yeah. You know, I was pretty interested in it.

• 36:09Speaker 02

  And, um, I, you know, really early on, I looked at day trading and, and the markets and I saw it as buying stocks or selling stocks and, and fortunately, I think I was smart enough to say, that's not what I'm gonna do. And that's not what I can do. And, and I could probably teach myself or learn, but that, uh, I don't even want to take the time to do that. Um, so I bought and held and I'm, I'm a pretty persistent, um, hodler of Bitcoin. And, um, I, uh, but where I got myself involved more actively was in the mining side of things. So.

• 36:49Anthony Pompliano?

  Yep.

• 36:49Speaker 02

  Um, so we've talked about it a lot. I've, I've, I've mined Bitcoin and Litecoin and, um, I've done it for a little while now and, um, it's, it's, it's paid off well at times and, and they've, uh, it's, it's been a struggle at other times and it's, I think ultimately it's taught me a lot about. Um, the space, because it's kept me engaged in the space as opposed to just, you know, hiding my keys and forgetting about it and then checking the price six months later. Um, so it's kept me engaged. It's helped me network, um, and build relationships like the one that we have. And, and other relationships that I have. And, and ultimately for me, my involvement in the crypto space has

• 37:32Speaker 02

  the potential for anything other than just, you know, my specific investment in, in Bitcoin, but, um, the pet potential to, to work with companies in the crypto space as they become um, bigger and have marketing needs or, or want to be involved and have, you know, advisors or whatever.

• 37:49Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 37:49Speaker 02

  Maybe in their companies.

• 37:50Anthony Pompliano?

  And, and so when you first saw mining, like what, what caught your attention about it, right? Because it's not like, um, probably anything else that, uh, that, that you've seen. And, and also, uh, it takes a little bit more sophistication to like buy the hardware. How do I actually set this up? How do I, uh, monitor it or kind of, you know, make sure that it's working correctly? Um, that's not like, hey, I just signed up for a Coinbase account and I just, you know, let it, let a market.

• 38:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 38:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Order rip, um, and just bought some Bitcoin.

• 38:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:16Anthony Pompliano?

  So what was the kind of the thing that drew you into the mining side? And then, um, you know, did you have technical background in, in terms of understanding some stuff? Or did you have to really go kind of learn how to, how to set it up?

• 38:26Speaker 02

  Um, I'm not, I'm, I didn't have a ton, ton of technical background. I'm not a total computer nerd, although in high school, um, I was a teacher's assistant, um, to the IT director at my high school and one of the jobs that I did for most of the time that I was a TA was, um, help set up the networks at our,

• 38:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Ah.

• 38:46Speaker 02

  At our school. So, um, as of, you know, for a teenager, having a very basic understanding of, of how computers are connected and how they operate, um, on a network. I've, I've had a like a very surface level understanding. Um, but I think the reason that I was attracted to mining was because it seemed, it seemed. Tangible and mechanical to me in a way that I understand how things work. It seemed like it was something that I could understand how it worked. Even though computers can be confusing, um, and networks can be confusing. The operations of, of, um, computer performance and power usage.

• 39:29Speaker 02

  Um, and the, the fluctuation of price and, um, and the flow of, of production. That, that seemed very, that, I don't know, it seemed like I could identify with that. And it, and also it seemed like to me Bitcoin mining, uh, was a, it's a blue collar gig. You know, and, and in a lot of ways. And, um, I kind of identify with that too. So, um, I felt like that was something where I was, I could be involved in that. And that could be where I get, um, like I said, I, I'm hooked into the space, but I'm not necessarily over my head.

• 40:07Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, for sure. And so, um, as you look at it in, in terms of the, uh, the intersection of, um, racing and, and crypto. There's obviously the sponsorship angle, right? There's plenty of crypto companies that would love to sponsor, uh, the race cars or drivers or, or whatever. Um, are there other elements of either things that, uh, NASCAR is doing today? Uh, or things you can do in the future where you see some sort of intersection with, uh, the currencies or applications of blockchain technology? Uh, or do you think it's more of, yeah, it's probably gonna stick in the sponsorship area for a while. And then maybe down the road that could happen, but probably not likely in the short term.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  Um, I mean, yeah, so obviously right now sponsorship is a, is a perfect avenue for that. And that's, you know, no different than it's a great idea for, um, for crypto companies to be involved in any sports league or any influencer. You know, NASCAR, from a sponsorship perspective, I will say that I feel like NASCAR shares a lot of the same core values that people in the cryptocurrency world share. So as these, as these crypto companies mature to the point that they're ready to market to the masses, I think that our demographic is a very similar demographic as far as, like I said, this sort of financial sovereignty and the, the, the belief system.

• 41:21Speaker 02

  So, um, that's why my network in, in the crypto space is, is important to me. Cause I think that the opportunity will present itself eventually. Um, as far as an actual use case in our sport. I've I've had, my mind has gone a million different directions and and really I would love to field ideas from anybody that sees opportunities. You and I have had a lot of conversations that, um, you know, one example could be the fractional ownership side of things and that doesn't necessarily have to be limited to just a driver, right? In a driver contract, we've talked about basketball players, um, that that, or what's the name of the basketball?

• 42:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Uh, Spencer Dinwiddie.

• 42:02Speaker 02

  That's right. Spencer Dinwiddie. I mean, he's his attempt at at tokenizing his contract. Um, it sounds genius and it sounds, um, you know, groundbreaking, but it's really just another version of what a lot of people are already doing behind the scenes.

• 42:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Yep.

• 42:19Speaker 02

  You know, um, golfers have staked themselves with investors, race car drivers have staked themselves with investors. There's, I I think that blockchain provides a, uh, just a technology that can more cleanly and and and, uh, more cleanly define what those investments look like, but then also open it up to a mass audience. So I think you could see race car drivers doing that. I think that you could also see race teams doing something like that. So in NASCAR, I mean, obviously we would have to have permission from the sanctioning body because the sanctioning body needs to know who owns what, but we're not a totally a franchise business like the NFL or NBA. I mean, the race, the drivers are still independent contractors. There's no union. The race teams ultimately are are.

• 43:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Employers, yeah.

• 43:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, employers and independent organizations. So, um, there's a lot of assets in the racing industry that can be, um, tokenized if that's a fair thing to say.

• 43:16Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, and I think to me, it's hey, you could tokenize the contracts of the drivers, right? You could tokenize the ownership of the teams. Um, yeah, there's even things that you can do around similar how people are doing like, uh, supply chain logistics, etc. You can do with the parts.

• 43:29Speaker 02

  And I think, you know, so we have, and and this is NASCAR is not totally unique, but we're, um, Yo, we're an ecosystem that does business with itself, right? And in a lot of different ways. So there's a lot of money that is in NASCAR that stays in NASCAR. That's totally endemic to NASCAR, right? You have money changing hands from NASCAR to the team owners, going from the team owners to the drivers, going back into NASCAR, you know, from the, you know, money coming from the race fans. Let's say that's money outside of NASCAR going into the racetracks. And the racetracks, you know, that, that money going to NASCAR in different forms. So there's even, I mean, there's, there's tons of opportunity for payment systems.

• 44:08Anthony Pompliano?

  I was just gonna say, that's the holy grail is to get NASCAR to accept Bitcoin.

• 44:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I mean, and I don't, I, it, that's not, I, I mean, you, you talk about like Litecoin and Align payment systems and what they're doing with the Miami Dolphins. And, um, you know, all the different services out there that, that have, had, over the last few years, have really figured out a, a, efficient ways to sell, uh, to, to settle payments in cryptocurrency. I, give me a call and I'll take you straight to the people in NASCAR that, that can make those decisions. Because, um, that's not unrealistic at all, you know, but taking it a step further, I don't think, I don't see why, you know, a, a, an industry like NASCAR couldn't have a native

• 44:54Speaker 02

  payment system, you know, or a native, um, currency of its own.

• 44:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Fan loyalty, all that kind of stuff, for sure. Um, all right, before, uh, before we finish up, I want to ask you, uh, what I think of as frequently asked questions that I've always had in my head for NASCAR drivers.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  Where do I do when I have to go pee?

• 45:10Anthony Pompliano?

  That, that's actually one of the questions. Um, and, and so just so people at home know, uh, we did not prepare this. He has no clue any of the questions I'm gonna ask him. Um, but the, the first question is, uh, what do you do when you, when you're racing, you gotta pee?

• 45:24Speaker 02

  I always turn that one around. I'm gonna make this one quick. I'm gonna turn that one around on you. Um, Pomp Global, new sponsor of mine, funding, Morgan Creek Digital is on the hood of the car. It's a multimillion dollar investment. We're, we're, uh, we're in the top 10 of the Daytona 500 and there's, there's. 20 laps to go in the race, you're on the edge of your seat on my pit box and I come over the radio and I say that I have to go pee.

• 45:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Yup, not happening.

• 45:51Speaker 02

  What do you want me to do?

• 45:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Keep driving, man.

• 45:53Speaker 02

  There you go. Pee in your pants.

• 45:55Anthony Pompliano?

  Yup, and that's just it.

• 45:57Speaker 02

  You got it.

• 45:57Anthony Pompliano?

  There's no special systems, there's no anything.

• 45:59Speaker 02

  No, nothing fancy. Now, I will tell you that I have only, I have only had to pee my pants in a race car one time.

• 46:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Once ever?

• 46:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Wow, you've been in a lot of race cars.

• 46:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, the races are four hours, you know, if you're smart, you can hold it.

• 46:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, and really, my thought process there is, as, well-

• 46:15Speaker 02

  Don't overthink it.

• 46:17Anthony Pompliano?

  Second question, and then we'll go back to the first question, is, are race drivers professional athletes?

• 46:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 46:24Anthony Pompliano?

  I, I tend to think that actually, people don't understand how difficult it is, both from a a physical exertion standpoint and the toll your body takes, and then also, the, sitting there, going, you know, 200 miles an hour-

• 46:39Speaker 02

  Right.

• 46:39Anthony Pompliano?

  Holding the steering wheel?

• 46:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, holding a car, yeah, I mean, you're holding a 3,000 pound car, and, I mean, so, I wear a heart rate monitor in the car, I track my biometrics, and, my, one of my hobbies- So, my hobbies outside of racing are endurance sports, but it's not just a hobby, because I feel like it, it helps my sport, you know, it's, it's an investment that I make in, in my craft, to compete in endurance sports, and, my heart rate, in a four hour NASCAR race, is actually, you could almost overlay it on my heart rate on a four hour, half Ironman triathlon.

• 47:16Anthony Pompliano?

  Wow.

• 47:16Speaker 02

  So, it's a very, and, and it's kind of the same to a marathon, it's very close to a marathon, heart rate, over a four hour marathon.

• 47:24Anthony Pompliano?

  That's crazy.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, it's, I think I posted on social media, one, one of the hotter races, we had this summer, my average heart rate was like 145 for a three hour race.

• 47:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Holy shit. So, the reason why I ask that is, as an athlete, you've got to stay hydrated-

• 47:42Speaker 02

  Yup.

• 47:42Anthony Pompliano?

  So, you're drinking a bunch of fluids-

• 47:44Speaker 02

  Yup.

• 47:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Anyone who's played sports before, finding the balance between staying hydrated and not having to pee all the time-

• 47:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 47:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Is, is a balance.

• 47:52Speaker 02

  So, we lose about 15 pounds of fluids in a race, I'm able, typically, on a, on a race where I'm gonna lose that many fluids, I'm able to replace about 120 ounces-

• 48:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  In the car.

• 48:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it.

• 48:04Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't drink while I'm racing, but when there's breaks, when there's caution periods, I'll suck down a 20, 24 ounce bottle like it's nothing, and I usually drink- About, you know, five or six of those in a race.

• 48:15Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, so, uh, next question. Do you bring your cellphone in the car during the race?

• 48:20Speaker 02

  Not allowed to.

• 48:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Not allowed to? Okay, so there's no texting and driving during the race?

• 48:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, uh, cellphones have accelerometers in them and we're not allowed to have accelerometers in the, in the car.

• 48:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, why not?

• 48:31Speaker 02

  Uh, NASCAR has limitations on, on the data that you're allowed to collect in the car on a race weekend. So in testing environments, um, it's pretty much wide open. Our cars are outfitted with hundreds of thousands of dollars of instrumentation. Uh, but on a race weekend, it's, there's a lot of data collection in our car, but it's all sort of funneled through NASCAR.

• 48:51Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. What, what is, um, what do you bring in the car with you for the race? So obviously you bring some fluids. Are there other things that you bring that maybe people wouldn't think about? Um, or is it just pretty much fluid and then you get in your fire retardant suit?

• 49:02Speaker 02

  No, I have a-

• 49:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Let's get racing.

• 49:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, my fire suit, uh, shoes, gloves, helmet, head and neck restraints. Uh, I have a, a, a carbon fiber bottle cage like you have on your bike if you're a road cyclist or something like that. And, um, and I drink out of, um, a 24 ounce bottle. And I, I do that instead of a Camelback or like a mechanical system. Uh, or, um, because I like to keep track of how much I'm drinking.

• 49:31Anthony Pompliano?

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:31Speaker 02

  So I have that right by the window of my car. When I come in for a pit stop, there's a, um, in a pit stop, you see the guys that run around the car. There's one guy that's actually dedicated to the driver.

• 49:41Anthony Pompliano?

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:41Speaker 02

  His job is to, um, get me whatever I need. So if I wanted a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, I'd ask him for one. Um, but I have him put, uh, my drink mix in there. And then he'll pull a tear off of the windshield to clean, to give me a fresh windshield.

• 49:55Anthony Pompliano?

  Very cool. Uh, what's the scariest situation you've ever been in racing?

• 50:01Speaker 02

  Um, it's, uh, usually, I don't typically get scared in behind the wheel. Uh, I'm pretty used to it, uh, to the, to the fear factor of it all. Um, but usually the, the couple tenths of a second between, uh, when your tire blows out and you're headed straight to the wall is the scariest.

• 50:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Have you had that happen?

• 50:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I had it happen a couple of months ago. I blew a tire at Indianapolis Motor Speedway and, and hit the wall, um, at about 160 miles an hour.

• 50:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Holy shit.

• 50:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was a pretty bad wreck and it was, it was like a 35G hit. So, um, if you could imagine a 160 pound body turning into a-

• 50:41Speaker 02

  You know, multiply that by thirty-five.

• 50:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 50:44Speaker 02

  Um, that's how much of a hammer that my body was going into the wall.

• 50:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Dang.

• 50:48Speaker 02

  Not didn't, it didn't feel good. I was, I was sore for a while.

• 50:51Anthony Pompliano?

  Did like, like what, when you got out of the car, was it something where you were like, hey, I got pretty messed up there or?

• 50:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it well, so you go to the infield care center, you see the doctors, um, I had to take a concussion test. Uh, fortunately, I did not have a concussion, uh, but my, I had, I had a lot of bruising on my body. Um, I had some, some rashes from like where the seat belts, um, you could, if, you know, our, I, I wear what's called a nine-point harness. So there's nine points of anchoring, um, on my seat belts. Uh, you could see the outline on my body in bruising where my seat belts are, where they line up.

• 51:27Anthony Pompliano?

  So it kinda did its job though.

• 51:28Speaker 02

  It did its job for sure, um, but I was very sore. I see, um, excuse me, I see a, a physical therapist every Monday after a race. Whether I need it or not, um, seven AM every, every Monday. And, um, we just go through my body and my mobility and, and that's kinda what kicks me off for my training week, um, so that I'm in, so that I'm ready to train. Um, after a wreck like that, I was, saw my physical therapist every day that week and I didn't train at all.

• 51:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 51:54Speaker 02

  Um, you know, that's, you're talking about have some salt baths and recovery.

• 51:58Anthony Pompliano?

  For sure. Uh, is rubbing racing?

• 52:00Speaker 02

  Rubbing is definitely racing.

• 52:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah?

• 52:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 52:03Anthony Pompliano?

  What, what, what is the, um, the, the culture within drivers around this, right? Cause I think, uh, most people, they don't, uh, they don't get to see kinda the, the driver's perspective.

• 52:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:14Anthony Pompliano?

  So, um, it looks like there's a lot of jockeying and there's a lot of intentional kinda rubbing or bumping.

• 52:20Speaker 02

  NASCAR is a very physical sport when it comes to the cars and drivers. Um, I feel like for the most part, you know, we get along as drivers off the track. We're pretty intense with each other on the track. There's a lot of mutual respect. Um, especially at the top level in the cup series, the drivers have a lot of respect for each other, but we race each other really, really hard. And, um, we have a lot of different ways that we communicate with each other on the racetrack. Based on how you race the other drivers, you can, it, it's, there's a way to send messages and a way to, um.

• 52:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Like what? Give me some examples.

• 52:49Speaker 02

  Well, the mo- one of the most useful tools to send a message to another driver is to stick your middle finger out the window.

• 52:56Speaker 02

  So the bird really said, the bird goes a long ways and it could, it's gonna say a lot of things. Um, and, and really the, um,

• 53:05Anthony Pompliano?

  That is amazing.

• 53:06Speaker 02

  The vigor in which you s- that you send the bird, um, can send a lot of messages too, you know, are you shaking your hand? Is it a soft bird? Do you just, um, and I'm not joking.

• 53:17Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, oh, I'm sure.

• 53:19Speaker 02

  There's a, uh, but also, I mean, you use your car. I mean, it's, it's when the caution comes out, coming, pulling up alongside of somebody and, and bumping them, uh, you know, can send the message that, that you didn't like what they did. Um, you know, sometimes drivers will, will pull up to you and they'll try to cut your tire. Uh, I mean, it's they, you know, our cars have sharp edges on them and they want to rub against you and they might cut your tire. They might, you know, rub, rub on your car and put some damage on your car that can hurt your performance. Um, if they don't like what you did, I mean, that's, that's, that's the gritty part of NASCAR racing.

• 53:54Anthony Pompliano?

  That's an elite level to, to use the car to pop your tire is an elite level of being able to drive going, you know, even at 50 miles an hour, let alone 200.

• 54:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's, uh, you know, it's, um, I've gotten, I'm not someone that likes to wreck other people because I don't want to get wrecked. Right? And, you know,

• 54:13Anthony Pompliano?

  That's true, that's true of crypto trading as well.

• 54:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. And so you, you know, when you're, uh, when you're, when you're in a tickle fight with another driver, I mean, um, the best way to get your shit piled up is to just start wrecking people. But, um, sometimes, you know, for me, the best way to send the message, or at least to get what I wanted to get out of it is just put damage on their car. Like, I'm not gonna wreck you, but I'll damage your car, you know, because it's gonna screw up your performance. Your team is not gonna like it. Your car owner is gonna cost him money. And, you know, it's like, hey, if you're gonna screw with me, I'll just damage your car.

• 54:44Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 54:45Speaker 02

  And, and there's ways that you can do it without hurting your own car. And that's, uh, that's, there's, that's one of the ways, I guess, that drivers communicate with each other. But the bird is always a good place to start.

• 54:55Anthony Pompliano?

  Don't, uh, don't tell anybody how to do it. We don't need on the LA freeway, anyone doing anything crazy. Um, what, what's the, uh, last question and then, uh, we'll talk about some aliens. But, uh, what, um, what's the craziest thing you've done to train for driving?

• 55:11Speaker 02

  Man, I mean, it's, I have spent hours and hours behind the wheel of race cars and, and in the simulator.

• 55:22Speaker 02

  You know, our simulation tools are actually not necessarily driver training tools as they are engineering tools. But when I worked for Hendrick Motorsports, I mean, I've been in the car for six, seven hours straight without getting out, you know, because, because we were at a test and we had a test plan and we had to get everything done. And we were beating the daylight and, you know, those are, those are the tests where you're just, you have to, you, you're putting your life on the line, lap after lap after lap. You have, you know, several hundred thousand dollar race car with that much more money invested in the instruments that are on it and you're driving at a 200 miles an hour and you have to, to do that

• 56:04Speaker 02

  all day long and, and it's all for the greater good of building faster race cars.

• 56:09Anthony Pompliano?

  I love it.

• 56:09Speaker 02

  I feel like, yeah, I feel like just the business itself is the craziest thing you could do. I mean, I've been grinding at this for a long, long time.

• 56:16Anthony Pompliano?

  For sure. Before you get to ask me a question, aliens, real or not?

• 56:23Speaker 02

  I think I've probably listened to the Joe Rogan Experience too much to, to not believe in aliens. So I, yeah, I think aliens are real or I think there's something, I think there's something living out there.

• 56:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Do you think they've ever been to Earth? If there's any, but there's been contact?

• 56:40Speaker 02

  I don't know. You know, I think that in, in my capitalist belief, and, and the, the, maybe not capitalist, maybe that's the wrong word to use. What am I trying to say?

• 56:53Speaker 02

  What are we as human, what, what?

• 56:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Like sentient beings?

• 56:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I think.

• 56:57Anthony Pompliano?

  We're definitely capitalists.

• 56:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're definitely, I, I guess that like in, in the way that we're.

• 57:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Intelligent life form.

• 57:02Speaker 02

  In, in our, in our nature as humans, it's, it's hard not to.

• 57:08Speaker 02

  You know, it's hard hard not to think that if aliens were here for me that that they would have taken us over if they're more powerful than us. Right? So I I just, I don't know. I have a hard time believing that there's aliens out there that are just watching us and. Feeling like if they had the technology to know about us and we didn't know about them, then we probably wouldn't be in existence.

• 57:27Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, I feel like they might just be watching. They're like, look at these idiots.

• 57:29Speaker 02

  Right? So I I think.

• 57:31Anthony Pompliano?

  Dumb stuff they're doing.

• 57:32Speaker 02

  I can see that, like, maybe there's there's life forms out there that we're more advanced than that. We just haven't found yet and they haven't found us.

• 57:38Anthony Pompliano?

  If they were watching, they'd be like, look at this. Every Sunday they show up and they just drive around in a circle.

• 57:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.

• 57:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Awesome, man. Well, to finish up, what one question do you have for me?

• 57:48Speaker 02

  Um, one question that I have for you. Oh, my gosh.

• 57:55Speaker 02

  How? I mean, how long is this journey for you? How long is this this crypto journey?

• 58:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, people people already know.

• 58:06Speaker 02

  Are you a crypto lifer? Is there an exit someday? Is there a?

• 58:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, look, uh, so there's two separate things. One is, um, the technology, the assets, etc. And then the other is like what I always call like the media stuff. So there's Twitter, writing every day, the podcast. Uh, on the media side, one day I'm gonna wake up and I'm just gonna say it was a fun ride, but I'll see you guys later.

• 58:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I could see that.

• 58:28Anthony Pompliano?

  You may never you may never hear from me again.

• 58:30Speaker 02

  What are you reading right now?

• 58:31Anthony Pompliano?

  Reading? Um, I'm actually reading Edward Snowden's Permanent Record.

• 58:35Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah.

• 58:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, so that one's pretty good. Uh, I just finished recently, um, Steve Swartzman, uh, I think Whatever It Takes is what it's called. Uh, that was pretty good. But, uh, to me, it's just the the media stuff is it's fun and it's a way to kind of collect thoughts, talk to people and stuff. But, uh, it it could be draining and, uh, at some point I think I'll just be like, all right, see you.

• 58:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Um, and and it'll free up a lot of time, right? It'll allow me to go read more. It'll allow me to kind of do other things. But, uh, but for right now I'm having fun, so, uh, we'll keep with that. And then on the investing side, I I don't think that I could, uh, ever walk away. So we'll we'll see what happens there.

• 59:11Speaker 02

  Nice, nice.

• 59:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Awesome, man. All right. Well, I appreciate you doing this. Where can people find, uh, find you online or find out more information if they want to get in contact with you?

• 59:18Speaker 02

  I'm on Twitter, Landon Castle, at Landon Castle, L A N D O N C A S S I L L, and my DMs are open, so.

• 59:24Anthony Pompliano?

  That's like, uh, Mississippi when you're a little kid and you learn how to say.

• 59:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, and, uh, I'm on Instagram as well, so, uh, but Crypto Twitter can find me on on Twitter.

• 59:34Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, man. I appreciate you doing this. Hey everyone, Popp here. If you liked this episode of Off the Chain and want to help us take crypto to the top of the Apple, Spotify, and other podcast charts, please do us a favor and rate, review, and subscribe. To review, simply go to the Off the Chain homepage, scroll down until you see the five blank stars. Taking 15 seconds to fill those stars in and leave a quick review goes a long way in helping us take the entire crypto ecosystem to the top of the charts. I appreciate you listening and see you next time on Off the Chain.