Jocko Underground: The Correct Way a Female Should Improve Communication

>Join Jocko Underground< https://www.jockounderground.com/subscribe The "Female" way to communicate with an all-men team. Do peer reviews work? Or do they just hurt? Can't seem to stay on the path because the alcohol keeps calling. Solving the unique problems in a family-run business. How parents can stay on the path directly after having a new child. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, number 153, sitting here with Echo Charles. We've got some interesting questions from the people, from the troops today. Let's get into it.

• 0:11Speaker 01

  Cool. First question. Hi. A year ago, I was promoted to General Contractor Assistant Superintendent on a 99% all male, multifamily construction site. The promotion was appreciated, but unexpected. To say the least, I'm completely flabbergasted and frustrated at the quote unquote "communication" or complete lack of communication. That problem is solvable, a lot of work, but doable. The issue is the acceptance of the lack of communication as the norm by leadership for multiple reasons. Then there, then there's all the other problems under the umbrella of lack of communication. There are so many factors, older to younger, woman to men, English to Spanish, and on and on.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  It's interesting, the Spanish speaking guys try so much harder to listen because of the language barrier. They end up being much better communicators without speaking much English than the indifferent English speaking Americans. However, the cultural differences make it hard for a woman to be in authority. The whole thing is a Rubik's Cube of pride, me, ego, most of the men, and a whole lot of frustration. How do I speak to men of different ages and races and backgrounds and improve the output of communication? Thanks.

• 1:26Jocko Willink?

  Okay, so I'll start off by saying this.

• 1:32Jocko Willink?

  What if I told you that no one cared that you're a woman?

• 1:38Jocko Willink?

  You're probably shaking your head right now, and you're saying that's not true. You're actually right, that is not true, because there's going to be a couple people that care, and it bothers them, and they're not used to it, and they didn't grow up that way. But you know what, when you're in a leadership position, there's going to be people who are bothered because... Someone's a veteran or not a veteran, or someone's older, or someone's younger, or someone's from a different industry, or someone hasn't been around that long, or someone doesn't, you know, didn't get the qualifications, the same qualifications, or the different qualifications, or isn't related to the boss, or has long hair, or has short hair, or has tattoos, or wears funny shoes, or drives a Prius,

• 2:22Jocko Willink?

  or drives a Ford F-150, 350. Like, you see what I'm saying? There, no matter what, who you are as a human, there's gonna be people that are pissed about it. They don't like to listen to other people. We have something called psychological reactance. No one likes to be told what to do. Just about no one likes to be told what to do.

• 2:42Jocko Willink?

  And they're just gonna view everyone negatively. So, that's cool. You know, that, that, that happens at Echelon Front. They show up at Echelon Front to work with a company. What is this military guy gonna teach us? He doesn't know about our industry. Oh, he's, he's spent 20 years of his life taking orders, or barking orders, you see what I'm saying? So, there's a bunch of prejudice that you gotta overcome.

• 3:06Jocko Willink?

  I mean, it's, it exists everywhere. It's just a reality of life.

• 3:11Jocko Willink?

  That you're, you are not the first person to ask the question, "How can I improve the communication with the team? The team doesn't seem to wanna listen." It's so common. It's so common. And I've worked with women leaders in every industry. Financial industry, construction industry, the energy industry, military females, law enforcement females.

• 3:39Jocko Willink?

  And, and these women that are in situations where they're leading men, where they're leading women, where they're leading young, where they're leading old, where they're leading English speakers, non-English speakers, all of it.

• 3:51Jocko Willink?

  And regardless,

• 3:54Jocko Willink?

  good leaders do what good leaders do.

• 3:58Jocko Willink?

  That's what good leaders do. Good leaders do what good leaders do.

• 4:03Jocko Willink?

  They build relationships with their team. Trust, listen, respect, influence and care. You know, when you ask this question, I'm gonna find this little quote in here. You know, how can I, was it something around, how can I tell them?

• 4:19Jocko Willink?

  How can I tell them what to do? It's hard for a woman to be in a position of authority. How do I speak to men? Right?

• 4:28Jocko Willink?

  You're talking about how you're gonna speak to them.

• 4:32Jocko Willink?

  When, I would rather you be focused on building a good relationship with them.

• 4:37Jocko Willink?

  And that's trust, listen, respect, influence and care, right?

• 4:41Jocko Willink?

  Trust, listen, respect, influence and care. So you got put in charge of this site and I'm sure there's, what are you, the assistant superintendent? And I'm sure there's someone that is going to, this is a construction site, multifamily construction site. So, my guess is, at this construction site, and you were kinda surprised to be put into this thing, so maybe you're not the most senior person, or whatever the case may be. But I guarantee that there's someone on this construction site that has been framing multifamily houses for 28 years. And is really good at it. And so when you go in and say, hey, we're gonna frame the house like this, guess what their reaction's gonna be? Doesn't matter that you're a woman, or you're a man, or you're young, or you're old.

• 5:26Jocko Willink?

  You're not listening to what they have to say.

• 5:30Jocko Willink?

  Listening is the most important part of communication. And by the way, let me ask you this question. When we're framing the house, what really matters?

• 5:40Jocko Willink?

  What really, really matters? Does it matter if they put all the, put all the two by fours to get it framed up? Does it matter if they stack them all in the front of the house or the back of the house? Or inside the foundation, or outside the foundation? Does it matter if they, does it matter if they put the, if they separate the lumber when it shows up? Because you think that's the best way to do it? Does it really matter?

• 6:03Jocko Willink?

  Does it really matter? Does it really matter if they want to frame all the walls at first and then frame some of the walls later and some other part of the outstation building? Does those things really matter? Might one of them in your mind be 10% more efficient? Sure. Now, you're gonna, you're gonna sacrifice your leadership capital for a 10% improvement over something that you can't really predict, by the way. And now you're imposing your plan on them. And then when it doesn't go your way, guess what they're gonna do? You see what I told you, boss lady? You should have done it my way. You see what I'm saying? It's a no, it's a no win situation.

• 6:46Jocko Willink?

  So what we want to do is we want to listen more.

• 6:52Jocko Willink?

  Think less about how do I speak to men of different, think of how do you listen? From a leadership perspective? Does the team not want to do a good job building the house? Do they want to go over budget? Do they want to go overtime? No, no, no, they want to do a good job. If they don't want to do a good job, clearly they shouldn't be there, but they, they want to keep their job. They're making money. They work there. So let them come up with a plan.

• 7:19Jocko Willink?

  Let them lead. Provide them support. Instead of saying, here's what I want you to do today. Instead, say, hey, do you have what you need from me for today? Is there anything I can help with? Is there any support that you need? Do you have the material that you need? Do you have the people that you need? Do you have any questions on the layout? Does the engineering look good to you? Cause you've been doing this for a long time.

• 7:49Jocko Willink?

  Does this make sense? Does these blueprints make sense? Is there anything we need to change? Anything we need to talk to the architect about?

• 7:56Jocko Willink?

  Anything, is there any way that I can support you?

• 8:02Jocko Willink?

  And I'm not saying that you should do this because you're a woman. I'm saying that you should do this because you're a leader and you want to be a good leader and that's what good leaders do.

• 8:11Jocko Willink?

  That's what good leaders do. Leadership Strategy and Tactics Field Manual, page 157, 158. Why do I know that? Why do I have that memorized? Because this is like the basis of how I answer this question over and over and over again, after I got asked this question over and over and over again. I'm a woman leading men. I'm a man leading women. I'm a young person leading old people. I'm an old person leading young people. I'm in this situation with this culture. I'm leading in a different country. I'm in, I'm in Mexico. I'm in India. I'm in Great Britain. I'm in Germany. How should I lead? How should I lead? How should I lead? How should I lead?

• 8:48Jocko Willink?

  Leadership Strategy and Tactics, page 157, 158.

• 8:53Jocko Willink?

  Number one, be humble.

• 8:56Jocko Willink?

  And I'm not going to go through all of them, but listen, be humble. Here's one. Don't act like you know everything. You don't. The team knows that. Ask questions. That's number two. Number three, listen.

• 9:11Jocko Willink?

  It doesn't say, number three, give clear orders. Doesn't say that. It doesn't say, number three, speak with authority. Doesn't say that.

• 9:23Jocko Willink?

  It doesn't say, number three, give them written and verbal orders. Doesn't say that. Number three says, listen.

• 9:35Jocko Willink?

  Number four, treat people with respect.

• 9:39Jocko Willink?

  Treat people with respect. Oh, you want to get respected? You don't think you're getting respected because you're a woman? Or you don't think you're getting respected because you're young? Or you don't think you're getting respected because you're old? Or you don't think you're getting respected because you didn't go to college? Or you don't think you're getting respected because you haven't been in the field? Or you don't think, you see what I'm saying? Just go on and on and on, on. There's going to be, everyone's going to find a reason not to respect you. You know how you get respect? Treat people with respect.

• 10:01Jocko Willink?

  That's what you do. Number four, take ownership of failures and mistakes. Yep, all day long. Number six.

• 10:08Jocko Willink?

  Did I mess up my numbers? Anyways, number five, take ownership of mistakes. What was number four?

• 10:14Jocko Willink?

  Oh yeah, treat people with respect. Number five, take ownership of mistakes and failures. Number six, pass credit for success up and down the chain. Oh, that's such a good move. When things go right on the job site and you get the multifamily home built quickly, give credit to the team.

• 10:31Jocko Willink?

  When you don't get it done on time, take ownership of what you messed up.

• 10:37Jocko Willink?

  Well, you know, the, the, the guys that were doing the framing took too long. Oh, well, maybe you needed to get more people on the team so they could get it done. That's on you. You see what I'm saying? Well, they, well, they didn't have enough lumber. Well, maybe we need to make sure we have enough lumber next time. Who's in charge of that? Yep, you are. You're in charge. You're the assistant superintendent. Make it happen.

• 10:56Jocko Willink?

  Number, number seven, work hard. Number eight. Oh yeah. And number seven, work hard. Get there earlier, stay there later. Get there earlier and stay there later. You know what, though? I'm actually, as the assistant superintendent, I'll show up when I feel like it. And you guys better have a parking space for me.

• 11:16Jocko Willink?

  No. You get the best parking space because you're there first. That's, that's, that's how you get respect. Working hard. Have integrity. Do what you say, say what you do. Be balanced. Don't take extreme actions. Don't take extreme opinions. Really, you have extreme opinions. Dude, I'm the assistant superintendent. We're gonna put the lumber where I say. No. Why are you wasting leadership capital on that? Don't do it. Don't do it.

• 11:46Jocko Willink?

  Be decisive. So when there's time to make a decision, make a little decision. Iterative decision making, right?

• 11:52Jocko Willink?

  Build relationships. That is your main goal as a leader. A team is a group of people who have relationships and trust one another. That's what you're trying to do. And lastly, get the job done. Now, don't take, when you hear me say get the job done, you're like, yo, I'm gonna get the damn job done.

• 12:09Jocko Willink?

  No, you don't get the job done by imposing your will on people. You get the job done by building relationships, having a great team where everyone wants to work hard and get the job done. That's what you do. Getting the job done should be the, should be the by, the, the, uh, what's that word? The result of the good relationships. The byproduct, that's what I was looking for. Getting the job done is the byproduct of having an awesome team. That's what it's supposed to be. It's not, we got the job done, team hates each other. By the way, you usually don't get the job. You can get one, maybe two jobs done when the team hates each other, then they all have a mutiny. So that's what we're doing. That's what we're doing. These are basic leadership principles.

• 12:55Jocko Willink?

  Basic leadership principles. Man, woman, young, old, short, tall, skinny, fat, doesn't matter.

• 13:06Jocko Willink?

  These things don't matter. Building relationships, listening to what people have to say.

• 13:13Jocko Willink?

  It can be hard. You talked about pride for you and ego for them. Go ahead and tell you. That goes both ways, both of those things. They got pride too. So when you come in and say, hey, we're gonna do this my way now. Oh, you just made them look bad in front of the team that they've had for four years. That is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to jacood underground.com and subscribe and we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms. So we are not subject to their control. And we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko podcast, which will remain as is free

• 13:56Jocko Willink?

  for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors and we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us.

• 14:11Jocko Willink?

  And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So, thank you. It's jockounderground.com. It costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email [email protected] and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.