384: Dirty Duggars Get Dirtier, Letecia Stauch’s Conviction OVERTURNED & Hawaii Attempted Murder Trial

This week on Headline Highlights: A Colorado Court of Appeals has granted Letecia Stauch a new trial after it was revealed that a juror had a family connection to the prosecutor’s office. Gerhardt Konig took the stand this week, along with his son, after allegedly attempting to murder his wife, Arielle Konig, during a hike in Hawaii. Joseph Duggar had his bond set at $600,000 last week and has since bonded out. And in Florida, a 19-year-old was arrested after allegedly dismembering a sex offender and collecting his blood to examine it under a microscope, reportedly inspired by the TV show ‘Dexter’.. If you’re new here, don’t forget to follow the show for weekly deep dives into the darkest true crime cases! To watch the video version of this episode, head over to youtube.com/@annieelise. .🔎Join Our True Crime Club & Get Exclusive Content & Perks..🎧 Need More to Binge? Listen to both of my weekly true crime series 10 to Life & Serialously with Annie Elise wherever you get your podcasts on the Annie Elise Channel!🍎 Apple Podcasts | Where you can also unlock access to 100+ and growing extra exclusive deep dives.💚 Spotify🔴 YouTube🎙️ All Other Platforms.🚩 Announcements 🌸Spring Merch is HERE!🌸Shop now at https://annieelise.com/collections/shop-all.📸 Follow Annie on Socials Instagram: @_annieeliseTikTok: @_annieeliseSubstack: @annieeliseFacebook: @10toLife.👗 Shop Annie’s Must-Haves! ShopMY: bit.ly/AnnieElise_ShopMy Amazon: bit.ly/AnnieElise_Amazon.🫵🏻 Get Involved or Recommend a CaseAbout Annie: www.annieelise.comFor Business Inquiries: [email protected].📚 Episode Sources CBS News | Court TV | Denver7 | Fox 35 Orlando | Law & Crime | People | Robbie Harvey | WESH••••••••••••••••••🚨Disclaimers1️⃣ Some links may be affiliate links, they do not cost you anything, but I make a small percentage from the sale. Thank you so much for watching and supporting me. 2️⃣ Sources used to collect this information include various public news sites, interviews, court documents, FB groups dedicated to the case, and various news channel segments. When quoting statements made by others, they are strictly alleged until confirmed otherwise. Please remember my videos are my independent opinion and to always do your own research. 3️⃣ The views and opinions expressed in this video are personal and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organization, employer, or company. Assumptions made in the analysis are not reflective of the position of any entity other than the creator(s). These views are subject to change, revision, and rethinking at any time and are not to be held in perpetuity. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, correctness, suitability, or validity of any information on this video and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its display or use. All information is provided on an as-is basis. It is the reader’s responsibility to verify their own facts.

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• 0:03Speaker 00

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• 1:02Annie Elise?

  Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serial Ashley.

• 1:24Annie Elise?

  Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all-new episode of Serial Ashley with me, your host, Annie Elise. It is Thursday, which first and foremost means I hope you're having a good week and you're getting ready for the weekend. But it also means that it is headline highlights day, where we are going to go through everything that's going on this week in true crime. We have some brand-new cases, some updates in cases, some cases that are really pissing me the fuck off, if I'm going to be honest with you. And actually, that's what I'm going to start with as we go in. That's going to be case number one. But we have a lot to discuss today. And I don't like to discuss it alone. So, and again- Surprise, surprise. In a surprise to no one ever, please welcome back to the show, Amy Colette.

• 2:09Speaker 03

  Good morning.

• 2:11Annie Elise?

  That was like Full House. Good morning, San Francisco. What was it?

• 2:14Speaker 03

  Wake up, San Francisco. I think about it every single time we do the show.

• 2:17Annie Elise?

  Do you? What was their intro?

• 2:19Speaker 03

  Wake up.

• 2:22Annie Elise?

  I wish you had to tell more right now.

• 2:23Speaker 03

  Because then, remember in the very first episode, they're competitive? And they like keep cheersing?

• 2:28Annie Elise?

  Wake up.

• 2:30Speaker 03

  I'm so obsessed with that.

• 2:34Annie Elise?

  I know. Why do I have two water? Actually, I'll tell you why I have two water bottles. Because ASMR, here we go. Spring merch just launched to the public this week. AnnieElise.com. You can get all of your stuff, although I want to warn you, a lot of it is already selling out pretty quickly. But this is our new Be Nice, Don't Kill People Tumblr. It comes with a straw. I just don't have it here right now. And then also, there's apparel, shirts, sweatshirts, accessories, the works. But then also our three-time sellout safety kit, which I'm just going to show you here. You can hear it. It's a black pouch that says, Stay Safe. And inside, you have all sorts of safety tools to help keep you safe.

• 3:16Annie Elise?

  You have flashlights, you have glass breakers, you have alarms, you have extra locks. And don't worry, it's going to be packaged way cleaner. You have seatbelt cutters. Everything has, you know, a little saying on it as well. We had these last year. We sold out three different times. And so because of your demand, we have brought them back. But these are also obviously going very quickly. So AnnieElise.com, you can get it now, but the merch shop is closing on Monday, so get your orders in fast. And because some of it, like I said, is already beginning to get very low in quantities. I'm out of breath. Okay. And so we have a lot to go over today.

• 3:54Speaker 03

  We do.

• 3:55Annie Elise?

  A lot to discuss. And I know there's a couple cases you want to talk about. One, that I have some thoughts on too, regarding.

• 4:02Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 4:04Annie Elise?

  He who shall not be named.

• 4:05Speaker 03

  I have a lot to say, actually, and I'm curious to know if it's a hot take or not.

• 4:10Annie Elise?

  Amy has arrived. Okay. Okay. Well, let's start with what is not a hot take, because I know all of you who are listening are going to agree with me when you hear the details of this. And it is the newest update in the hideous gutter troll monster, Letecia Stauch. Because if you remember, she was convicted for murdering her stepson, Gannon. And that conviction has now been overturned. Now, when I first saw this news break last week, I literally thought it was April Fool's. I think I found out on the second and I was like, is this an April Fool's joke? This actually cannot be real. The evidence was overwhelming. The, remember, if you remember the interviews, the body cam footage, when she chucked that monster can in the back of the cop car.

• 4:55Annie Elise?

  This woman, I'm like getting chills right now talking about, I don't know why she makes me so irate and I fucking hate this woman. So let me break down what's going on because this is definitely an update that I did not expect to be sharing, especially in a case like this, but here we go. So as you may or may not be familiar with, this case is one that we have covered before. So I'm not going to do a full, super deep dive into the background, but for those of you who are unfamiliar and have no idea why I'm getting as angry as I am, I am going to quickly recap what happened. So this all started back in January of 2020, and that is when 11-year-old Ganon Stauch was reported missing out of Colorado

• 5:35Annie Elise?

  Springs. What followed was weeks of searching, stories constantly changing, and a lot of suspicion surrounding his stepmom, Letecia. Investigators later said that Ganon had been killed inside their family home, and then his body ultimately had been found later in Florida after being transported, I think it was over 1,500 miles across state lines. Letecia was arrested, she was charged, and in 2023, she was convicted of first-degree murder and she was sentenced to life in prison without parole, plus an additional 13 years. And that is like skimming the very top-line surface of what is truly involved in this case, because it wasn't, I mean, obviously no murder is just cut and dry, but like,

• 6:19Annie Elise?

  it wasn't just that. There was ongoing torment, emotional abuse. There were videos and audio recordings of Ganon where he thought he was being bad and in trouble for things that he was doing, where he had a burn one time and she was like yelling at him about it. All he wanted to do was play his video game at times. And in the bedroom, the crime scene photos were horrific. You could see like what happened and it just goes so much deeper. And don't worry, I am going to be doing this, I think maybe as a possible reopened, I'm not sure, on my second true crime podcast, Tend to Life, just so that ahead of this now new trial that's going to be coming up, you can get fully up to speed. But it is a very complex case and there is so much that goes into it. And once you learn about all of that, if you

• 7:04Annie Elise?

  Don't already know, you'll 1,000% understand why I'm so angry. But the point being, so she was found guilty and a major part of that trial was her insanity defense. She claimed that she had disassociative identity disorder, that she wasn't the same person. She had multiple personalities, all of these things. However, the jury didn't believe it. So they deliberated for about eight hours and then they came back with the guilty verdict. So at that point, it really felt like, okay, great. Case closed. Justice served. Gannon's getting justice. His dad is getting justice. This troll, disgusting gutter human being is going, you know, gonna be locked up forever, or at least for a long period of time. Except as of late last week, it's not case closed.

• 7:47Annie Elise?

  Because as I said, now the conviction has been overturned. A Colorado Court of Appeals has ruled that Letecia is entitled to a new trial. And the reason for this, it comes down to something very specific that had happened with the jury, which I have to say, really frustrates me too, because not that it's a technicality, but it's something that it didn't have anything to do with her defense or evidence or anything like that. It was something regarding the jury. According to reports, one of the jurors who sat in on the case had a family connection to the prosecutor's office. Specifically, the juror's son-in-law worked for the same district attorney's office that was prosecuting Letecia. And under Colorado law, that kind of relationship can create what's called implied bias, which

• 8:32Annie Elise?

  I think that that goes for a variety of states law, not just Colorado. But it basically means that the court treats that juror as biased by default, regardless of whether they personally say that they can be fair. So during the trial, the defense actually flagged this and they asked for that juror to be removed. But the judge denied the request. So the juror stayed on the panel, participated in deliberations, and helped decide the verdict. So now that decision, the judge saying that the juror can stay, that's what's now coming back years later. Because the appeals court looked at that and said, uh, no, absolutely not. That was a legal error. You certainly cannot do that. So they ruled that allowing the juror to stay violated Letecia's constitutional rights. to a fair and impartial jury.

• 9:17Annie Elise?

  And when it comes to something like juror bias, it's not something that you can obviously just overlook or say that it didn't matter. If a juror who should have been disqualified was allowed to sit on the case, the entire verdict can be thrown out automatically. And in this case, it did get thrown out. Now, obviously, this doesn't mean that Letecia is innocent. It doesn't mean that she's being released. It doesn't mean that the case falls apart. And truth be told, I think that there was plenty of evidence. We had covered this trial in real time when it was going on a few years ago, too. There, there's no doubt in my mind that she will be found guilty again. Certainly not. But it does mean that the state saw the trial is flawed and it made this verdict no longer valid. Prosecutors have already responded to this as well, saying that they are very disappointed with the ruling,

• 10:01Annie Elise?

  but that they still fully intend to pursue justice for Gannon. And they do have some options here. As of right now, the prosecutor is planning to take this to the Colorado Supreme Court and ask for the decision to be reviewed. And if that higher court disagrees with the appeals court, then the conviction could potentially be reinstated. But if they don't take it up or if they agree with the ruling, then this case does move forward to a full retrial. Which imagine what that means. Like, that means going through all of the details again, all of the horrific evidence, the crime scene photos, the audio recordings, the testimony, the insanity defense and Letecia's batshit fucking crazy antics, the forensic details, everything, and putting Gannon's father and family through all of this again.

• 10:46Annie Elise?

  Gannon's family has also already spoken out, essentially saying that they are preparing themselves to have to relive this process if it comes to that. Which, I mean, just imagine for a moment, finally getting a conviction, thinking that it's over, thinking that the monster who hurt your family is behind bars, but then being pulled right back into it just a couple of years later. So as of right now, Letecia remains in custody. Her conviction has been overturned for now. And this case is kind of in that weird in-between stage where prosecutors have to decide what their next move is going to be. But either way, the case certainly is not over. I mean, not even close. I am definitely going to be following this very closely. And I We'll update you as soon as we know what happens next, but this bitch, I can't believe she's back on my radar.

• 11:30Speaker 03

  It's so frustrating when people get off on like a technical, not that she's getting off, but that she's even granted a new trial.

• 11:36Annie Elise?

  And the waste of resources, time, money.

• 11:39Speaker 03

  The emotional distress.

• 11:40Annie Elise?

  Yeah, exposing the family to that all over again. It's, and I know that she is just so happy.

• 11:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's what's the most frustrating.

• 11:47Annie Elise?

  I know. You know what? This is kind of one of those moments. Not that I advocate for vigilante justice, but like.

• 11:53Speaker 03

  You don't?

• 11:54Annie Elise?

  No, I don't. But sometimes I do believe that like jailhouse justice does need to take its course.

• 12:00Speaker 03

  I mean, there's a reason people believe in karma.

• 12:02Annie Elise?

  True. I just, I hate this one. And she looks like a wet rat every time you see her. No, honestly. Have you seen a picture of her?

• 12:10Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 12:10Annie Elise?

  She looks like a wet, greasy rat, and I hate her. I need to take a drink of water.

• 12:16Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 12:16Annie Elise?

  Take it away, O'Brien.

• 12:17Speaker 03

  Well, and you know this one really well.

• 12:19Annie Elise?

  Yeah, I'm about to get pissed off times two. Here we go.

• 12:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:21Annie Elise?

  Okay.

• 12:22Speaker 03

  So this next case is currently on trial. We've been following it closely and he covered it multiple times on Hulu Doc with Nancy Grace. I think you've talked about it on the pod and things have shifted in a major way now in the courtroom because Gerhardt Konig has taken the stand in his own defense. Now, if you're not familiar with the case, we talked about it a little bit a couple of weeks ago also. Gerhardt Konig is an anesthesiologist on trial for allegedly attempting to murder his wife in three different ways during a hike in Hawaii. Now, here's the thing. Defendants don't always have to testify. In fact, a lot of them don't because the second you do, you're opening yourself up to cross-examination.

• 13:05Speaker 03

  The prosecutors can go straight for your story, your timeline and your credibility. So it's not always the best idea. But this case in particular has always been about two completely different versions of what happened on that hike. Prosecutors say it was a deliberate, violent attack. Gerhart allegedly pushed her toward a cliff, beat her over the head with a rock, and even allegedly tried to use syringes on her. But when he took the stand, he completely tried to flip that narrative. He told the jury that this was not planned, that it was not. Not an attempted murder. Instead, claims that this was self-defense, that his wife shoved him near the edge of the cliff. And what followed was a physical struggle when he reacted. And really, the entire goal of his testimony was to introduce reasonable doubt,

• 13:49Speaker 03

  reframe the intent and take what the prosecution is calling calculated and turn it into something chaotic, reactive, and unplanned. But remember, the jury isn't just hearing from him. They also heard from his son. And that's where honestly, the entire tone of the courtroom shifted last week. Because his son, Emile Konig, took the stand and described a FaceTime call that happened shortly after the incident. And according to his testimony, his father didn't say anything about self-defense in that moment. Instead, he said something very different. Because his son told the court that his dad admitted that he quote, "tried to kill his wife." And not only that, but he described seeing what appeared to be blood,

• 14:30Speaker 03

  hearing his father not talk about coming back, and even making statements about what sounded like final decisions, like telling him to quote, "take care of his siblings." So just think about that for a second, because now the jury is sitting there with two versions of events, being told within about 48 hours of each other. One version, the accused person on the stand, under oath saying, "this was self-defense." And another version, according to his own son, in the immediate aftermath, saying, "I tried to kill her." And that's when you have to stop and ask, what is the real version here? Because these are obviously two very conflicting stories. And this is where I feel like we have a lot to unpack here.

• 15:10Annie Elise?

  I know. I don't know, at the time of this recording, there has not been a verdict reached. So maybe there will be at the time of this release. I think it was pretty ballsy of him to take the stand, because usually we don't see the defendant take the stand. Because as you pointed out, it's an opportunity for the prosecution to just like pummel them and like completely descre- like just, you know.

• 15:30Speaker 03

  Pick apart their story.

• 15:31Annie Elise?

  Their whole story. That being said, he didn't really, in my opinion, have a strong defense. So I think it was kind of a hail mary, like, what have I got to lose at this point? The cards are already stacked against me when you look at the evidence and when you hear the 911 call, when you see the photos of Ariel, like all of these things. So that, I think he's like, I'm gonna try to elicit some sympathy wherever I can and just do my best to spin the narrative that I'm trying to spin.

• 15:57Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 15:58Annie Elise?

  But. I would be shocked if people believed it because even if it's true, which he says she was having an emotional affair. They had been in couples counseling. She had said that she believed that it was working. That's why she agreed to go on this hike with him, which by the way, was her birthday. And then he said, let's take a selfie near this cliff. She's like, no, I don't feel comfortable. And then that's when he like, tried to shove her to get her closer to the cliff. That's when he then took the rock and allegedly started bashing her head in and then reached for the syringes. So even if you're on the jury and you're hearing this guy who seems like he's telling the truth and he's like, you know, we got in a spat. She was having an emotional affair. She admitted to it. Then it escalated. It was a spousal argument that like erupted into chaos

• 16:42Annie Elise?

  or whatever. What I would be asking as a juror is, okay, maybe that's believable. But why do you bring syringes with you on a hike?

• 16:49Speaker 03

  Like, why do you have syringes readily available?

• 16:52Annie Elise?

  And which I will say, they have not recovered those to my knowledge. I think that there's been some weirdness where they were seen, but I don't think they know the contents of them or something like that. But they did find the fanny pack that he had on the hike at his house later and it had propofol in it, syringes, and he is an anesthesiologist. He obviously has access to a lot of medications. But yeah, you wouldn't

• 17:12Speaker 03

  You're not carrying that around.

• 17:13Annie Elise?

  No, you're not bringing a syringe of propofol with you on a Maui hike.

• 17:17Speaker 03

  And when you're on, if it's your birthday and you're going for a hike with your husband who already knows of this affair and already you're trying to work through it, what could have been so heated that came out that you're deciding to talk about at the top of this cliff during, I mean, it's not like new information was revealed at this point. I mean, what would have caused some sort of argument to be then self-defense?

• 17:41Annie Elise?

  Well, I think the way he's trying to spin it, and he's outright saying some of this, but I think a lot of it is also illustrated in the undertones of what he's saying, is that she didn't want to be with him anymore. So yeah, she's trying to push him off the cliff, which it's like,

• 17:53Speaker 03

  Just get a divorce?

• 17:54Annie Elise?

  Just get a divorce. But yeah, both of you, just get a divorce. No, but then like when you see, The damage that was inflicted on her with this rock and how bloody she was and how scary it was when the hikers found her and all of that. And then, yeah, this admission, which his defense used to the line. So the admission to his son on the FaceTime call where he basically was crying and it was kind of like, I think he real, that was when he was on foot and there was a full manhunt looking for him for hours. And he felt the walls closing in. His defense is now saying, no, no, no, no. And their quote is, that was not a confession. That was a mental health crisis.

• 18:32Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 18:32Annie Elise?

  Which is like, fair. I get you're trying to spin it, but like, let's call it what it is.

• 18:37Speaker 03

  Well, and then there was the second call where he calls his son. So now he's called his son twice. And in the second call, his main concern was, who did you tell that I, that about our first call? So obviously, he's concerned with guilt.

• 18:51Annie Elise?

  Because at that point, he's like, I'm gonna start walking this back.

• 18:53Speaker 03

  Yes, exactly. And let me, I've had some time to think of my story. And so calling the son back, asking who he told, then all of a sudden, the narrative changes. Not only that, but you've got two hikers who are seeing this woman who was just hit over the head with, you know, rocks. I feel like you've got enough people here who saw the story in real time, that anything you're trying to put together as self-defense is very unbelievable.

• 19:18Annie Elise?

  I agree. I think it's probably like, when it first happened, and when she started screaming and he fled on foot, he was probably in fight or flight, more so flight, like, it's time for me to get the hell out of here, call my son, line things up. And then the fight part kicked back in, like, oh shit, yeah, I am gonna walk it back in, I'm gonna fight this, and I'm gonna say this, and this, and this.

• 19:36Speaker 03

  And what a coward. You do, you attack your wife, and then you're, you just, like, threaten to jump off

• 19:42Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 19:42Speaker 03

  the cliff because you can't handle your consequence?

• 19:45Annie Elise?

  Yeah. What a loser. Um, I was gonna say too, I've seen it on social media here and there, as some people have been following it. And I haven't really seen Anything overwhelming one way or another? I mean, what I have seen mostly is people think he's guilty, but I haven't really seen any comments of people even questioning his guilt. But I also haven't seen people just like steamrolling him for his guilt. So I would be very surprised if they returned with a non guilty verdict.

• 20:13Speaker 03

  Oh, I would be shocked.

• 20:16Annie Elise?

  But there is maybe 5% of me that could maybe see if they get one juror on there who has some sort of doubt, who has been in a marital spat before, who has had a cheating spouse before, who knows that sometimes, you know, behind the curtains of a marriage, there are some fights, things get ugly, sometimes not combative and like physical, but arguments and things escalate to where it just takes that one person to hold out. I don't know.

• 20:40Speaker 03

  But if that, if she came and attacked him, that would be the first thing you say on a phone call. You wouldn't say, I tried to attack this person. And also.

• 20:47Annie Elise?

  The syringes. Explain the syringes.

• 20:49Speaker 03

  For sure. And I just, I felt so terrible for Emile on the stand because I just imagine, I mean, you're a teenage boy who now is receiving a call about horrific news. I mean, how could you ever even wrap your mind around that in and of itself? But now you have your father who's threatening to harm himself and you're now the responsible parent in the scenario who's trying to talk him, yeah, de-escalate it. You've got two younger siblings that you're living with, that you're also concerned with. You have this enormous weight of responsibility that you should never have. And that was awful. And then here, I'm curious to know what all of you think and what you think.

• 21:34Speaker 03

  Those attorneys, was that their first trial? It honestly felt like a mock trial and I was watching like them practice court. Their questions were terrible, the way they phrased it, they had to recorrect themselves so many times. They asked the same thing over and over again. I, it really felt like amateur hour and like they were pretending to be attorneys. It was really weird.

• 21:59Annie Elise?

  Big yikes. And now watch, they get the not guilty and you're like, they were just.

• 22:03Speaker 03

  I don't know. I'm curious to know specifically, I didn't, you know, specifically with the son's testimony, I felt like the way they were leading it was very.

• 22:12Annie Elise?

  They could have been trying to trip him up, but did you catch this with the son's testimony? Obviously, I don't know if he supports his dad, if he is. You know, if he forgives him or believes him or anything, but he did refer to him on the stand as the defendant.

• 22:27Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 22:27Annie Elise?

  Not my dad, like kind of creating that boundary and that separation. And I thought that that was interesting unless he was, maybe I'm overthinking it and he was just trying to be more formal being like, and who was that the defendant rather than like my dad right there. So, but I thought that that was interesting.

• 22:41Speaker 03

  I know.

• 22:42Annie Elise?

  I don't know. We'll see when the verdict comes. I wonder if there is an estimated time. Let me actually look. Right now there is no verdict. So again, this could be completely moot when this releases, but let's see. We'll soon learn his fate. Let's see what this says. Oh, closing arguments. Yeah, are expected on Tuesday. Yeah. So we might have a verdict by the time this releases. We will see.

• 23:11Annie Elise?

  All right. I feel like we need to just have an honest conversation here in the circle of trust. Can we talk about how literally everything seems to be getting more expensive? Groceries, gas, rent, you name it. And apparently your wireless bill wants to join in on that party too. But here's the thing, it doesn't have to. Mint Mobile is making it so much easier to stop overpaying for wireless with plans starting at just 15 bucks a month. And you're not sacrificing quality either. All plans include high speed data, unlimited talk and text, and access to the nation's largest 5G network. You can also use your current phone and your current phone number. You just sign up online and you are good to go. Now, I changed carriers probably a year and a half ago at this point to Mint

• 23:55Annie Elise?

  Mobile. And when I tell you, not only was it the best decision of my life, I now have like service in places my husband doesn't even have service, but it was so easy. It took me 15 minutes, kept my phone, kept my phone number. It was the best. So for a new wireless plan, starting at 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com/ae. That's mintmobile.com/ae. $45 upfront payment required, equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

• 24:34Annie Elise?

  All right. So I hate to do it. I hate to say it, but we need to talk about the Duggars again.

• 24:40Speaker 03

  You've had some mixed reviews in the comments. There was a healthy amount of people that were like, please don't.

• 24:46Annie Elise?

  They are so disgusting and they're getting more disgusting by the minute. Like, and every time I think about them, I'm just disgusted. Yeah, so grossed out. So the biggest update right now, again, at the time of this recording, because a couple of weeks ago, you guys like came for my throat. You're like, oh, there's new news. I'm like, okay, well, I can't release this in real time. But the biggest update as of right now relates to what we talked about last week, which was that Joseph Duggar had his bond set at $600,000 back on March 31. And sure enough, that very same day, disgusting ass Duggar bonded out. Which let's just pause there for a second, because the amount that they likely had to pay to get him out of jail is much smaller than $600,000, but it's also not a small number. It's usually

• 25:31Annie Elise?

  10% of the total bond amount that needs to be paid to be released. So in this case, that would be 60 grand that needs to be paid upfront. And according to reports, his wife Kendra was the one who bailed Joseph out. But the question was, where'd she get that money? Now, sources say that she actually moved out of their house and that she put it on the market as a rental and that she's been selling off their personal belongings. Things like trailers, a pressure washer, a wood splitter, even things like a four wheeler, like, you know, an ATV. Big ticket items that would certainly have a higher price tag. Things that realistically, people don't just usually sell off unless they need that money, or they are upgrading to something better. And something here also tells me

• 26:15Annie Elise?

  that they aren't going to be like buying the newest, latest and greatest equipment to replace what they're selling. It looks like they need the cash. Now, the reason we even know about this is because of the recorded jail calls between Kendra and Joseph. And some of those calls, they were actively trying to figure out how to come up with the money that was needed. And when you really do stop and think about it, too, these don't sound like things that they are using on a regular basis. Really even need, especially if they end up in prison. So I mean, selling them, it's not a bad idea. You're not going to use a pressure washer when you're locked up. You're not going to use an ATV, right? And a $600,000 bond, even if you're only paying a portion upfront, plus the legal fees that you're going to have in multiple states for both of your cases.

• 26:58Annie Elise?

  It's going to add up fast and you certainly are going to be needing, you know, that cash money. But even though he's out now, it's not a back to normal situation, not even close. One of the biggest conditions of his release is that he cannot have unsupervised contact with minors, including his own children. And then you also layer in everything that's going on with his wife Kendra, because we've talked about that as well on here. According to reports, Kendra also does not currently have her children with her. And allegedly she can't see them for about a month following that everything that had unfolded. I guess CPS intervened and it's a month until she's even able to have supervised visits. But even that, I think is a little bit of a gray area right now. But some of this is coming directly from Joseph's sister Anna,

• 27:43Annie Elise?

  who, by the way, is married to Josh Dugger, the foul, disgusting human being who was in like federal lockup for all of his CSAM stuff that's been going on. So Anna had sent an email to Joseph the morning after Kendra was arrested. And Anna said, quote, "She was strong on the phone call, except for when she talked about it being a month before she can see the kids." So a lot of people have been running with this whole thing of like, she permanently lost custody. Great, the kids are safe, but just to be clear, that hasn't been confirmed, not yet anyways. Apparently, these are just temporary restrictions that are tied to her own charges and not just Joseph's charges. Which, I want to just talk about this for a moment too.

• 28:26Annie Elise?

  We talked how Kendra's charges were for false imprisonment and child endangerment. And it was because when the police went to investigate the house due to Joseph's crimes, they found locks on the outside of the children's doors. And so it was four counts, I believe, in total, or for each charge. So what I'm hearing now, and again, we're going to vet this, confirm it, but as of right now, it has not been confirmed. But what I am hearing is that it was in addition to those locks on the outside of the doors, it was also the living conditions in which was happening inside that house. Not, don't think house of horrors, like feces everywhere and food everywhere, but obviously not. Great living conditions for children to be in. And then the doors are of course, one of the

• 29:10Annie Elise?

  things that stood out most, having locks on the outside of them. So I mean, however you frame it, it is not looking good for either of them. And it's kind of like, there's another expression, I'm thinking like, the apple doesn't fall far, but where is it like, birds of a feather?

• 29:23Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 29:23Annie Elise?

  Like where it's like, you know that there's bad behavior just bred within this family. Even now, the in-laws who are coming into all of it, because it's that cult-like mentality. It's the grooming, it's the hush, hush, stay quiet. If somebody's doing something, you know, we're gonna get them private treatment. That's why they had sent Josh off to that weirdo camp years and years before his arrest, when he was touching his sisters. And it's like, they tried to just handle it within the family. And it's like, well, no, now more people are coming in. And here's what I gotta say, not trying to shame anybody who may be a victim in this in terms of like marrying into this family, not the victims they've actually abused, but because they may have grown up in the cult as well, and they could have been brainwashed and they

• 30:04Annie Elise?

  don't know. But like, who the hell is willingly marrying into this fucking family?

• 30:09Speaker 03

  That's what I was thinking. I'm thinking that's so sad, like guilty by association for anybody married in or children or associated with that family. And it's sad, especially for kids who have the stigma then, because to your point, I mean, you're not letting your kids go play over at that house, or probably, you probably wouldn't even encourage a friendship, because who knows what's gonna be said or shared. And you just wanna shield your children from that.

• 30:35Annie Elise?

  Or imagine like, and I get it, she, I don't know how long she knew the family and grew up with them, Kendra, and even Anna, I guess, if we're talking about everybody. But imagine if like, right now, I came to you, and I was like, I'm dating this guy, his name's Joseph, he was on a reality show called 19 Kids and Counting, he has this big family, like, he's all about family values, he has a little bit of weird beliefs, but like, all this, and his brother is currently in federal lockup for CSAM material, but I really like him. So I'm gonna marry him and have children with him, and you let him around my kid. I don't know, like, there's just something.

• 31:09Speaker 03

  I mean, it's hard, because. I know.

• 31:12Annie Elise?

  Like you don't want to think that they're guilty because of their family members behavior, but in situations like this, it is bred from within.

• 31:19Speaker 03

  When there is multiple situations within a family. It's one thing when it's just an isolated incident, but when you realize, oh, perhaps this is a a result of their environment and how it's, it's, it's in their control, but also there are some of it that just was naturally part of their environment and probably instilled in them.

• 31:37Annie Elise?

  Like de-stigmatized and all that. Cause even the mom in old interviews with her like tiny little voice and stuff would say things like, you know.

• 31:45Speaker 03

  Like she didn't have a firm grasp on reality.

• 31:47Annie Elise?

  No, and she was very much like, you follow the male, they're the patriarch of the family. You just are there to support them. You're there to have sex with them. You're there to put like, do whatever they need to, to they can provide and be the man and which.

• 31:58Speaker 03

  It could be a coping mechanism too. I've, I've known people who have had some unfortunate family situations where they're, and they have said like, my mom just kind of disassociated because it was just like easier to not acknowledge what was going on.

• 32:13Annie Elise?

  I just like, yeah, these scumbag people, Josh, Joseph, even though he hasn't been convicted yet, Kendra too, we'll see what is the truth and what's going on in all of that. I don't know. However you frame it, it just is not looking good for them. And you have all of these pieces happening at once. Joseph's out of jail. Kendra has now been separated from the children for a period of time. Their home is no longer functioning as their family home and somehow it's being turned into like a source of income, renting it out, selling things off, doing whatever they need to do. And just, you know, doing whatever they need to do, I guess, to stay afloat. So for now, this is where things stand, at least for this week, but based on how quickly things have been evolving over the last couple of weeks. This is one of those cases where we probably are going to keep seeing updates, even though

• 32:58Annie Elise?

  they may slow down for a bit at some point. I'm sure that we will continue to see updates come through, so I will certainly keep you all posted with what we learn and what happens, but.

• 33:08Speaker 03

  Let's hope nothing new.

• 33:09Annie Elise?

  Let's hope nothing new and let's hope that, look. I'm all for reunification and getting people back with their family if it's a safe environment, but this based on what we know and we only know a little fraction of it. It does not feel like a safe environment. So 30 days, in my opinion, is not enough. They need to go with, it's hard. It's like you want to say they need to go with the family.

• 33:30Speaker 03

  I know, I was just gonna say that.

• 33:31Annie Elise?

  Like it's crazy. And then you like, it's so sad. These poor kids who did nothing but be born into this, you know?

• 33:40Speaker 03

  No choice.

• 33:40Annie Elise?

  It's awful.

• 33:42Speaker 03

  Well, I'm going to give you one guess as to what state this next case is out of.

• 33:47Annie Elise?

  Give me a, give me a headline or a hint of what it involves.

• 33:50Speaker 03

  A heavy crime state.

• 33:52Annie Elise?

  Florida.

• 33:52Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 33:53Annie Elise?

  Florida, really?

• 33:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. I couldn't even tell you a first letter.

• 33:56Annie Elise?

  Sorry, all my, what is it Floridians? I love you guys.

• 33:58Speaker 03

  I know, but it's.

• 33:59Annie Elise?

  I'm actually going to be there next week, so I love you.

• 34:02Speaker 03

  Well, this next one has many, many layers to it and just keeps getting worse because it started as a missing persons case in Florida and then quickly turned into something that people are comparing to a real life episode of Dexter and not just in a casual way. So here's what we know. Back on March 28th, police in Palm Bay, Florida were called out to a remote area known as the compound after people noticed vultures circling around an abandoned suitcase. And when officers got there, they didn't just find one suitcase, they found two and both contained human remains. And when officers got there, they didn't find just one suitcase, they found two, both containing human remains.

• 34:45Speaker 03

  And inside one of those suitcases, investigators found a knife and an Amazon package with a name on it, Lucas Sander Jones. So almost immediately, police had a lead and a lot of questions that needed to be answered. And when they started digging into that, everything started to unravel. Because around that same time, a 28 year old man named Coley Lee Daniel had just been reported missing. And he had last been seen on March 20th, going into 19 year old Lucas Jones's house, that same person whose name was on that Amazon package. Now here's where things start to get strange. According to the court documents, Coley's parents Actually went looking for him that night when he didn't come home. They used Find My iPhone to track Coley's iPad and ended up at Lucas's house.

• 35:31Speaker 03

  When they went up to the door, asking to see Coley, just wondering where he was. Lucas said that he was inside, but he that he didn't want to come to the door. So Coley's parents refused to leave until they actually saw him with their own eyes. But Lucas refused to let them in. Police even responded shortly after and again the next morning. But Lucas also refused to let them in and reported that there were no signs of Coley being at the house. So now investigators were working backwards. There were two suitcases found with human remains, connecting to that missing person. And going back to the last place where that missing person was seen alive. And again, that led them right back to Lucas's house.

• 36:13Speaker 03

  And when they executed their search warrant, they reportedly found blood inside the home and a knife. Similar to the one recovered from the suitcases. But then came something else that really shifted everything. Because a huge part of the case came from Lucas's girlfriend. At first, she gave police a version of events that wasn't entirely accurate. But later she came back and changed her whole story and what she told them was honestly chilling. She said that Lucas confessed to her, telling her, quote, "I killed somebody and cut him up." And according to her statement, he didn't just say it, but he explained exactly what had happened. She told investigators that Lucas said he beat Coley with a baseball bat.

• 36:55Speaker 03

  Then dismembered his body using a knife, cleaver, and saw. Before placing the remains into suitcases and dumping them at the compound. Which again, lines up exactly with what police found. Now, the girlfriend's statements don't stop there. She allegedly told police she initially lied because Lucas had coached her on what to say and that she was afraid of him. To the point where she thought she could even be next. She also described there being blood in the house. Being asked to help clean and even driving Lucas to the compound and seeing him unload containers and leave them there. Not knowing what he was dumping. But what was Lucas's motive? Well, according to investigators, this wasn't random. They believe he specifically targeted Coley

• 37:39Speaker 03

  because he was a registered sex offender. There are even claims that Lucas had looked up or printed lists of sex offenders in the area beforehand. So when you hear what comes next, just keep that in mind. Because the part that has shocked everyone is that investigators say Lucas allegedly kept some of the victims' blood on microscope slides. Which is why some people are drawing comparisons to the TV show Dexter, mostly because of the blood on the slides, but also because of this idea of vigilante justice. And as far as charges go, this escalated very quickly. Lucas was initially arrested on charges related to tampering with evidence, abuse of a corpse, and improper disposal of human remains. And he actually bonded out.

• 38:22Speaker 03

  But then, just days later, he was rearrested on a second-degree murder charge and is now being held without bond. At this point, investigators have confirmed this was a homicide involving blunt force trauma and dismemberment. And what investigators are saying about the motive, there may still be a lot more to this case than what happened just that night. So we'll be following along to see if there's any more answers or explanation as to why he did this.

• 38:46Annie Elise?

  I mean, my first question was, what's a 19-year-old doing hanging out with a 28-year-old? That's a pretty big difference. And I mean, for a 19-year-old to be capable of that kind of violence is scary. But also, then when Coley's parents tracked him, they tracked his tablet to Lucas's house, which in my mind would make me think they were friendly enough to be hanging out. Like, who just brings an iPad over to somebody's house unless you're hanging out, or unless you're trying to sell the iPad, or something like that? There's something, there is something weird, I fear, with their relationship.

• 39:17Speaker 03

  I think there's something weird. And like, why do you have this, um, why can't I think of the word?

• 39:22Annie Elise?

  Like hatred?

• 39:23Speaker 03

  Hatred and motivation to seek out the registered sex offenders and then bring justice in your own way. So that leads me to think, like, was there perhaps some sort of past trauma, or?

• 39:35Annie Elise?

  Or were they friends? And was Coley aggressive toward him? And he, like, and that, because, again, they were hanging out, and he was at his house, and he brought his tablet over. And things like that, like.

• 39:43Speaker 03

  But it sounds like he pulled the list beforehand.

• 39:46Annie Elise?

  I think he had pulled a list to see people, yeah, who were out there and but it didn't say that um he found Coley on that list, right? Or did he?

• 39:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, he did. And he was a he was a registered sex offender, which is like rumored to be the motive. So I was thinking like.

• 39:59Annie Elise?

  There's gotta be more going on.

• 40:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:01Annie Elise?

  This is weird. So I wonder what their relationship.

• 40:03Speaker 03

  And to throw away your whole life to for.

• 40:06Annie Elise?

  Vigilante.

• 40:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:08Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 40:08Speaker 03

  I mean, there must be some deep rooted reason why you're doing that.

• 40:11Annie Elise?

  Yeah, that's a lot of violence too for a nineteen year old. I mean, I've seen way worse at way younger, but like to dismember somebody with a cleaver and then, yeah, to save the blood in microscope slides. I've never seen Dexter. I personally have never watched. I think Jay watched it. But our brother, but I've never watched it. Let me know if we should. Um, I'm always looking for new shows to binge, but um. Yeah, that's disturbing.

• 40:33Speaker 03

  There must be more to it.

• 40:34Annie Elise?

  Yeah. Um, in other news, I saw some updates. When was it? Shoot. Hi, I'm drawing a blank. I saw some updates on something this morning and I wanted to talk about it, but now I can't remember what it is. Damn it.

• 40:49Speaker 03

  Did you happen to look up the photos that I was telling you about?

• 40:53Annie Elise?

  I think that might have been something older or something because, yeah, I didn't really see much of that out there, but I know that there was new information released in Coburger regarding like um the gag order and and them now saying, you know, certain things that they were it's stuff we already knew, like there was no social media connection. Um, they're like things like that, which we already knew. That they the prosecution never was able to even determine the correct target and stuff like that. Um, but there was a case I thought that I saw that I want to talk about, but maybe not, maybe not. I don't know. And that's on getting older, my friends. So thank you for tuning in to another episode. Make sure that you're following the podcast if you are not already. Also,

• 41:35Annie Elise?

  we talked about this a couple of weeks ago on headline highlights. Remember that case? Was it also Florida? The two girls?

• 41:40Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 41:41Annie Elise?

  Well, yeah, right? It was.

• 41:42Speaker 03

  Yes, and. People are upset because they're being charged as adults, but then you have Anna Kepner's stepson that, or I'm sorry, stepbrother that's being charged as a minor. So people are like not understanding Florida right now.

• 41:56Annie Elise?

  Well, and Aiden Fucci was charged as an adult. I, I think it probably depends on the district and all of that. But a couple of weeks ago in headline highlights, we talked about this case of the two girls in high school who were plotting their classmates murder. If you remember and listen to that episode, she was planning to murder him so that she could, um, not reincarnate, but bring back to life the Sandy Hook shooter, Adam, and that she was gonna slash his throat in the bathroom stall, smoke a cigarette, bring this guy back to life who she's in love with or whatever. And it's her and a friend of hers that like planned this whole thing together. Point being, there was a lot of disturbing images and body cam footage and interrogation stuff. And I had said, hey, do you guys want

• 42:38Annie Elise?

  the deep dive on this? The deep dive came out this week. It came out on Tuesday. So you can go listen to it right now, but it's on my second true crime podcast feed, 10 to life. But yeah, it's wild. These two girls were like diabolical and the planning and the notes left behind for the parents and just the scheming and plotting. It, and it's so scary when you like, and when you hear the interviews, which we have in the episode with these girls, it is so scary because there's no remorse.

• 43:06Speaker 03

  I was gonna say no remorse. The, I think I said this when we covered it, the audacity.

• 43:10Annie Elise?

  Yes, yes. So that's, it was, it's wild, but that full case deep dive is out right now on the 10 to life feed. So as a reminder, if you have not started following that podcast feed yet, now is the time to do it. Go follow. It's free. It's wherever you get your podcasts. And we also put out an episode Monday. Little reminder again, friendly reminder, new episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and every other Friday. And you can of course, get even more bonus episodes and content over on Patreon, patreon.com/AnnieElise.

• 43:44Annie Elise?

  What? Why are you smiling at me like that?

• 43:46Speaker 03

  I don't know. I just feel like it was a long episode and like a lot going on.

• 43:50Annie Elise?

  There's a lot going on.

• 43:51Speaker 03

  People we don't want to talk about ever again.

• 43:54Annie Elise?

  The Duckers. I know. Well, on that note, I'm gonna hold up my Tumblr right now that says, "Be Nice, Don't Kill People: A Reminder to Go Get Your Merch And God Forbid You Do Encounter Some Creepy Asshole in an Alleyway." Get your safety kit so that you can protect yourself or on a hike in Hawaii.

• 44:14Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 44:14Annie Elise?

  Yeah.

• 44:15Speaker 03

  With your significant other.

• 44:16Annie Elise?

  Yeah, God. How grim.

• 44:19Speaker 03

  I know, honestly.

• 44:20Annie Elise?

  Like, come on.

• 44:21Speaker 03

  There's a reason we don't hike, O'Brien. We know.

• 44:23Annie Elise?

  Honestly, like, ugh, why are people the way they are? Maybe that's the new tagline. Why are people the way they are? Amen.

• 44:31Speaker 03

  Amen.

• 44:32Annie Elise?

  Could apply to a lot of people.

• 44:33Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 44:33Annie Elise?

  So, yes, merch is out. It's available to the public, AnnieElise.com, but the merch shop is closing on Monday. We won't be back until probably the fall, so grab it now. And if you're going to Crime Con, grab your merch so you can win at Crime Con. All right. Thanks again, guys, for tuning in. I will be back with you on Monday with an all-new deep dive into a case. Go listen to that other deep dive of the two crazy-ass teenage girls over on Tent to Life. It's out now, and talk to you soon.

• 44:58Speaker 03

  Bye.

• 45:11Speaker 04

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