Are These Apple’s Next Products?

So much happened this week that we had to bring in Mariah to help out at the producer table! We start off with some Apple news before talking about the new Samsung smart glasses leak. Then the crew discusses everything from what an OpenAI phone would do to Google redesigning all of its icons. Of course, we wrap it all up with trivia! Links: MacRumors - Apple adding AI photo editing 9to5Mac - Mark Gurman says Apple working on 6 new categories 9to5Google - Samsung's Smart glasses leak Spotify - Premium now includes Peloton Verge - Google Photos launches AI try-on feature Ming-Chi Kuo on X - OpenAI smartphone Threads introduces live chats 9to5Google - Gradient app redesign Digital Trends - YouTube TV multiview Follow us on socials: Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin Mariah: https://www.instagram.com/totallynotabusinessacc/ Waveform Threads: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Waveform Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/waveformpodcast/?hl=en Waveform TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Intro/Outro music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Andrew Manganelli?

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, host Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin, Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring your fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting? And what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episodes and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from, but when that context is scattered across tools, threads, and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying blind. That's the problem that Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all these pieces together, from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more, so nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot, assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  That's J-I-R-A dot com.

• 1:21David Imel?

  Black and Yellow.

• 1:23Speaker 01

  I'm actually shocked that.

• 1:25David Imel?

  High school.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  Fair enough. Touche.

• 1:27David Imel?

  Or middle. Actually, that was middle school.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  Black and Yellow.

• 1:30David Imel?

  Black and Yellow, Black and Yellow.

• 1:31Speaker 01

  Was that really middle?

• 1:32David Imel?

  Why are you shocked that I know that?

• 1:34Speaker 01

  I thought that was later than that.

• 1:35Speaker 03

  Old.

• 1:36David Imel?

  Black and Yellow song. Oh, it's actually called Black and Yellow.

• 1:39Speaker 03

  That was like 2012?

• 1:40David Imel?

  2010.

• 1:40Speaker 04

  Wait, what did you think this song was called?

• 1:46Speaker 01

  Yo, what is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of The Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marquez.

• 1:52David Imel?

  I'm David.

• 1:53Speaker 04

  And I'm Ellis.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  Ellis at the main table.

• 1:56Speaker 04

  Ellis at the big table.

• 1:57Speaker 01

  But then that means who?

• 1:58Speaker 04

  Whoa, that's right. You guys asked for it. We delivered.

• 2:02David Imel?

  We did.

• 2:02Speaker 04

  Mariah on the podcast.

• 2:06Speaker 03

  Hello.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  They do be asking. In today's episode, we've got a bunch of classic waveform stuff. We've got to talk about Apple, Samsung, upcoming products, things that we've gotten used to talking about a lot. Also, someone trying to beat Apple out their own game could be very interesting.

• 2:24David Imel?

  It's true.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:26David Imel?

  Not just someone. Well, I guess we'll get it.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  We'll get, we'll get to it. We'll get there. You can't jump the gun too much.

• 2:31David Imel?

  Yeah. Okay, I got a quick update from last week. Because remember when we were discussing whether or not John Turnis was going to take over either at WWDC? We knew that he was going to officially take over CEO in September, but we didn't know if he was going to headline WWDC, or if he was going to headline the iPhone event. But now, Mark Gurman is reporting that Turnis will be headlining the September event, specifically because he led the team that designed the foldable iPhone. So when they announced that, also, new story that came yesterday, apparently it's going to be called the iPhone Ultra.

• 3:04Speaker 01

  I think that's interesting. I don't believe it. It makes sense.

• 3:06David Imel?

  I don't think it makes sense.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  You don't?

• 3:08David Imel?

  No.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  It's the Ultra iPhone.

• 3:10David Imel?

  But it's probably the least durable one.

• 3:13Speaker 01

  Oh, so Ultra should mean durable?

• 3:15David Imel?

  I mean, that's what the watch, that's what it means.

• 3:16Speaker 01

  Oh, in Apple. We don't know that to be true. So I guess, in Apple land, what does a word mean versus everywhere else, what does a word mean?

• 3:22David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Everywhere else, the word Ultra on a flagship phone means the max specs, most features, biggest cameras, all that stuff?

• 3:29David Imel?

  Which is what the laptop's gonna mean, too, when the MacBook Ultra comes out.

• 3:33Speaker 01

  Not Studio. You think it's gonna be MacBook Ultra?

• 3:36David Imel?

  That's what Gurman is reporting, that it will also be Ultra.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  So then, in Apple land, what does Ultra mean? Ultra would be just-

• 3:42David Imel?

  It's not durable anymore.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  Apple Watch Ultra is the only Ultra, right?

• 3:46David Imel?

  Yep.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  So, durable, also maxed out- Or M3 Ultra. The chips are Ultra, but that's just the chips. Yeah, okay.

• 3:53David Imel?

  Are they durable chips?

• 3:55Speaker 01

  Really good question.

• 3:56David Imel?

  They are rocks themselves, I guess.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  They're silicon. Well, yeah. So, okay, it's gonna be the folding iPhone Ultra, and he is gonna be the one sort of headlining. And what we mean by headlining is like, he's the one that opens it and then starts passing it to other people. Like, previously, it would be Tim Cook, right? He's the CEO. He goes, "Good morning. We have so much to share with you. Thanks for joining us." We have a lot to show you. We think you're gonna love it. Introducing the first person, or he'll go introducing iPhone, then fancy video, then head of iPhone product will come out. And then it'll go back to Tim Cook and he'll go, "We also have something great to show you with audio." And then they'll play a fancy video of AirPods and then the head of AirPods will come out.

• 4:33David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 4:34Speaker 01

  So now it'll be Turnus doing the intro-ing and then the people who are leading those projects.

• 4:40David Imel?

  I, yeah, it's hard to know. It's hard to know. I'm wondering if they do a one more thing with the, with the Ultra, with the phone, the foldable iPhone. Cause usually they save the best stuff for like the end of the keynote.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 4:51David Imel?

  And I'm wondering if this is a big enough thing for them that they're gonna one more thing in.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  I think a brand new $2,700 iPhone Ultra seems like it's gonna get a lot of attention.

• 5:02David Imel?

  Twenty-seven? You think it's gonna be $27?

• 5:04Speaker 01

  It's gonna be so expensive. I mean, how, okay, it'll be at least $2,000.

• 5:08David Imel?

  At least $2,000. I think it's gonna be $19.99. $99.

• 5:10Speaker 01

  That's as low as I'd be willing to go. I think the over-under should be like $21.99.

• 5:17David Imel?

  I could see that.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  Cause I, I think I would take the over.

• 5:19David Imel?

  But if we're doing prices right rules, then I'm doing $19.99.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. $19.98?

• 5:25Speaker 05

  Y'all are both crazy. There's no way.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  No way it's that low?

• 5:28Speaker 05

  I don't know, man. This thing has to be more expensive.

• 5:30David Imel?

  Apple is no longer the most expen- like the super most expensive company anymore. They sell a lot of cheaper stuff now.

• 5:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, but they are also gonna start selling more expensive stuff.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:41Speaker 05

  Like the fold. I mean, they're gonna just like expand up. Like the Neo, they expanded down. This one, they're just gonna expand up.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  The Oppo Find N6, which is what I called peak foldable. It has that like super awesome, almost creaseless display.

• 5:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  Uh, retails for roughly $2,300 US.

• 5:59Speaker 05

  That sounds right.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  With models in Australia and Asian markets.

• 6:02David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 6:02Speaker 05

  I was gonna say $2,399. It's my guess.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  That's, I could see $2,499. I can picture the $2,499 dropping onto the stage and everyone going, "Oh."

• 6:10David Imel?

  You should not $2,399?

• 6:12Speaker 01

  I could also see that. Remember Turnus is the one who announced the $999 stand?

• 6:17David Imel?

  Hmm.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  Do you remember that?

• 6:18David Imel?

  Hmm.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  He got on stage and he was like, "And the stage and the, and the stand will be $999." And everyone went, "Oh," and he just moved on. And that was, that was Turnus.

• 6:28Speaker 05

  That was him getting jumped in.

• 6:29David Imel?

  Man, that's not a great track record so far. Yeah, I imagine at Dub Dub, they're going to do something where Tim Cook will intro it. Everyone will be like, "Aww." And then he'll be like, "And I'm gonna move it over to John." And then we're going, "Aww." And that's gonna be cute.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  They could both be on stage, maybe.

• 6:45David Imel?

  That could be cool.

• 6:46Speaker 05

  That's exactly what we said, right?

• 6:47Speaker 01

  Cause Dub Dub, usually it's Craig onstage because he's the head of software.

• 6:51David Imel?

  Craig Federighi.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  So it'll be like, Tim Cook and Craig Federighi will get onstage and they'll intro the event. Tim will start, pass it to Craig, then play the video.

• 6:59David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 6:59Speaker 04

  I still think it's, they're gonna incorporate some Apple product or service into the handoff announcement. Like, there's gonna be some video where like, Tim Cook, or like, John Turnus is like, on his bed, on his stomach with his feet kicking the air, and he's writing in his iPhone journal app like, "Boy, I wish I could be CEO one day." And then like, like-

• 7:20Speaker 01

  Airdrop.

• 7:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, Tim Cook like, airdrops in through the ceiling and he's like, "Boy, do I have a surprise for you, John Turnus."

• 7:28Speaker 05

  Tim Cook cosplaying as Tinkerbell? Oh, I would love that. I would love that.

• 7:33Speaker 04

  It'd be amazing.

• 7:33David Imel?

  They've done less crazy things.

• 7:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:36David Imel?

  But I would be here for it.

• 7:37Speaker 04

  Like, John Turnus in the kitchen preparing food and Tim Cook shows up, he's like, "This is your final cut before becoming CEO." Sorry.

• 7:45David Imel?

  I like that.

• 7:45Speaker 04

  No, no. I also have an update from last week.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  Go ahead.

• 7:49Speaker 04

  And that is... Mariah, hit the reverb.

• 7:55Speaker 04

  The Philadelphia 76ers are still in the NBA playoffs. That is right, everybody. We were down, and then we were up, and we're still up. Three to two, one game behind, going right back to Boston. Boston, if anyone in Boston is listening to this, you're going down. And if you're listening to this on Friday, you will know, we either lost on Thursday, and I'm in the streets of Brooklyn crying my eyes out, or we won on Thursday, and we're taking this to game seven, baby. Also, Thursday's game is in Philadelphia, so I was wrong about that. But anyway, go Sixers, Sixers in seven. The dream is not dead. We did not get swept, Marquez.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  I'm impressed. I'm impressed that you didn't get swept.

• 8:31Speaker 04

  Thank you. Also, Joel Embiid...

• 8:36Speaker 04

  Yo! Are you serious right now?

• 8:39Speaker 01

  That was Mariah.

• 8:40Speaker 04

  Oh my god. Joel Embiid, I capital L. Love you. Oh.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  How did this team do to get such glory?

• 8:51Speaker 04

  Dude, the 76ers-

• 8:52Speaker 01

  Cause they haven't won, so it can't be that.

• 8:53Speaker 03

  Are you okay?

• 8:55Speaker 04

  You know, I was, I was hanging out at 76ers Twitter this weekend and I do really feel strongly that much like art, sports reflect life. And there's something to be said about a sports team winning and wanting to win, because winning is like the point of sports. But the complete nonsense, chaos brand of basketball that the 76ers employ in both their front office and on the court, I think is actually really indicative of what it means to be alive in America right now and what it means to never give up and fight through everything that's coming at you. And like, I, to me, it's like, I don't need the 76ers to be a championship team for them to be my favorite. It's, it's the fact that they've taken me on this wild ride and they've never given

• 9:38Speaker 04

  up and it's a bunch of goofy characters doing, Quentin Grimes was full court guarding Jason Tatum for no reason, just, just to harass him, you know what I mean?

• 9:48Speaker 01

  I like that.

• 9:49Speaker 04

  It's sick. I love the 76ers. I love you, Joel Embiid.

• 9:53Speaker 05

  Knicks fans will be excited either way.

• 9:55David Imel?

  Is Mike Bibby on that team?

• 9:56Speaker 01

  Are they the next in line to play the winner of that series?

• 9:58Speaker 04

  They are.

• 9:59Speaker 05

  I believe so, yes.

• 10:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, so the office is gonna be, has the potential to be quite tense.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, we got a little bit of both. For those who are listening to audio only, first of all, what are you doing?

• 10:08Speaker 04

  No, no, come on!

• 10:10Speaker 01

  I listen to audio podcasts. Get to the video podcast, you can see Ellis is wearing Sixers hat again.

• 10:13Speaker 04

  And Adam is wearing a Knicks hat.

• 10:14Speaker 01

  And, uh, yeah, so the rivalry is in the room. Are they playing each other at any time in the future?

• 10:20Speaker 04

  If, if the Sixers surmount these impossible odds-

• 10:23Speaker 05

  Then we will have the honor of kicking them out the playoffs.

• 10:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, Adam and I will be, will be beefing.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  It's gonna be good. It'll be good for the pod, I'm rooting for that.

• 10:31David Imel?

  It's a normal day for you guys.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:33David Imel?

  All right, well, uh, okay, we usually do, did they even test this? I heard that you came with one, Ellis.

• 10:38Speaker 04

  I did come with one, it's really quick, it's not that, it's, I, you know, I'm sure I'm not the only one who complained about this, it's that, um, in Safari, the greatest browser ever invented, my, my latest gripe with Safari is that in order to, you know, find on page, the classic-

• 10:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:54Speaker 04

  Browser tool-

• 10:55Speaker 01

  Control F.

• 10:55Speaker 04

  Control F, uh, that is in the share menu on Safari.

• 10:59Speaker 01

  What?

• 11:00Speaker 04

  Doesn't make any sense. You open the share menu, oh, it's not there. You have to view more and then it is the second to bottom option.

• 11:07David Imel?

  That's disgusting.

• 11:08Speaker 01

  You know where it is on-

• 11:08Speaker 04

  It doesn't make sense.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  You know where it is on Arc Mobile?

• 11:11David Imel?

  Where it's freaking supposed to be. It's in all the settings and then boom, find on page. It's a major, major pin.

• 11:20Speaker 04

  It should be. It's literally one of the most useful things you can do in a browser.

• 11:24David Imel?

  It's literally the first major option.

• 11:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:27David Imel?

  So just start using this dead product, Ellis.

• 11:29Speaker 04

  So, did they even test this? Almost certainly, but I don't like the way you described it.

• 11:35David Imel?

  Yeah, they sometimes test things.

• 11:37Speaker 04

  Why not put it?

• 11:38David Imel?

  And they're just usually wrong.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  Our browser is actually way better than Safari on mobile.

• 11:44David Imel?

  Yeah, it's really good. It's, it's just really good. It's, I recommend it. King. Yeah. All right.

• 11:50Speaker 04

  What be me?

• 11:50David Imel?

  Well, we're gonna get into the actual news this week. All right, I saw this story yesterday. Yes, thank you, Mariah.

• 12:00David Imel?

  I saw this story this week. There's actually a lot of Apple leaks going around this week. One of them being that they are adding a bunch of new AI photo editing tools in iOS 27.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 12:10David Imel?

  And two of them are pretty normal. One of them I was surprised about, so stay till the end to hear the most exciting one.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  Great retention hack.

• 12:18David Imel?

  Thanks. So the first one is Extend, which is basically Generative Expand in Photoshop.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  Okay. I'm all getting there.

• 12:26David Imel?

  Also kinda surprised that Apple's doing this because they've had a harder stance in previous years on what is a photo, you know? They've, you know, they've added cleanup and people have felt weird about that, but it didn't really seem like they were gonna go crazy on the photo editing stuff. But they're apparently adding Extend, allegedly. There's Enhance, which honestly just seems like a better auto mode. It says uses AI to automatically tweak color, lighting, and other image parameters. But the one that seems crazy, that Photoshop actually just added, and I just don't know what the hell this is. It's called Reframe. When used in spatial, with spatial photos, so if you have to take a spatial photo to get this to work, you can change the perspective of the image after its capture.

• 13:11Speaker 01

  See this, I've, okay, I have a feeling this is gonna be bad.

• 13:15David Imel?

  So my, my question is like, how much can you change the perspective?

• 13:19Speaker 04

  Like, can you be like, make this a picture of the back of them?

• 13:23David Imel?

  Well, this is my, well, so Photoshop can currently do that. That's a feature that just came out in Photoshop. You can literally rotate any photo and it'll just generate what it should look like and then it create. But this one I'm-

• 13:35Speaker 01

  It's like people though, I thought it was only objects. I could be wrong.

• 13:37David Imel?

  No, people too.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  It is people too.

• 13:39David Imel?

  Oh, yeah. So, my question for this, is it like, because you're taking a spatial photo, it's using the wide sensor and the main sensor, can you just change the perspective between that little parallax that you get between the wide and the main? Or is it like, you can rotate it like fully?

• 13:55Speaker 04

  That was sort of my question about all of this is like, how, how much are they just gonna like, you know, diffusion transformer model their way to like new information? And how much are they going to be capturing like quote unquote metadata with the other two cameras or the other camera? And then inputting that into a-

• 14:12David Imel?

  Right.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  Probably a little bit of both. If you always have the ultra wide frame going, then you can always have extra information about what's around what you take a picture of with the primary camera.

• 14:21Speaker 04

  Right.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  So maybe if they're smartly always capturing some of that information around the outside edge and then running it through a model and including that in a slight reframe, I could see that not being insane.

• 14:32David Imel?

  And that would allow the generative expand to also use other things that were actually there.

• 14:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 14:37David Imel?

  Cause the ISPs in these, in these smartphones, they have like two or three now and they're, they can just run all of the cameras all the time.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:44David Imel?

  So maybe they're just sampling from every sensor and then if you use generative expand it, it stores that metadata like in a compressed format.

• 14:51Speaker 04

  Yeah. I could be going wrong, but the iPhone camera system- Excluding the single camera ones, kind of already do this, right? Like, like every photo you take is, there's image data coming from the other lenses too.

• 15:03David Imel?

  Yeah, Google first did that with like super zoom.

• 15:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:06David Imel?

  Yeah, and I think Apple does that now as well.

• 15:08Speaker 05

  Didn't Google also do it? Like, I vaguely remember the original pixels.

• 15:13David Imel?

  It was a Pixel 3.

• 15:14Speaker 05

  3, okay, yeah, where it's like, it's just always taking pictures? And then when you press the button, like the shutter button, it just like saves that one?

• 15:22David Imel?

  Well, that's the Nexus XP, that's just HDR, that's just HDR in general.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  But there's also like the live photo thing.

• 15:28David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  Where it's always running a quick video in the background. And so if you take a photo and someone's eyes are closed, or there's a funny thing happening in that moment, you can like watch the live photo and see the three second video of that moment.

• 15:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  So it's always, yeah, it's always capturing something.

• 15:41David Imel?

  And if you do take a live photo, I suppose it has sort of like the micro jitter of your hand. And so there's a little bit of a different perspective there, it can use that information.

• 15:49Speaker 04

  Whoa.

• 15:50David Imel?

  So, yeah, I mean, the Pixel already does that.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, and the Pixel will, I think they also say they take the center of the frame and add information from the telephoto.

• 15:57David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 15:57Speaker 01

  So like, it makes sense.

• 15:59David Imel?

  Sharp.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  They're just like slowly pushing the limits of like what counts as part of the original photo.

• 16:03David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 16:05David Imel?

  I'm curious whether or not they like lean into the, we are still thinking about, you know, image, like what is an actual image?

• 16:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:12Speaker 05

  No way, they already forgot about all that.

• 16:15David Imel?

  Apple didn't really.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  You know, Apple, when I go to some of these briefings, I don't know how much I'm allowed to directly quote them. Actually, I'm not allowed to directly quote them. But a lot of the sentiment, a lot of the sentiment is, you know, you see what those other companies are doing with these crazy AI-generated adding things to photos? We don't do that intentionally because we try to keep the original thesis of capturing a moment that actually happened.

• 16:37David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  And yes, you can erase people from the background, yes, you can tweak colors and lighting, but it's, it's a capture of a moment that really happened.

• 16:45David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  So I guess if you're changing the angle of capture, you're not changing what happened.

• 16:49David Imel?

  Right.

• 16:50Speaker 01

  If you're changing, what is this, extending, maybe what's not originally in the frame, but it's from information that was really there.

• 16:56David Imel?

  Right.

• 16:56Speaker 01

  You can keep that same philosophy without violating your thesis.

• 17:00David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 17:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  I guess that makes sense.

• 17:02David Imel?

  Makes sense.

• 17:02Speaker 04

  Apple's also like the least, uh, attuned. Tool is a tool, tool manufacturer of like the major tech companies. I, I mean, like, like, I do feel like a lot of companies are like, we're trying to build these tools and we're gonna let people like, you know, do crazy, crazy things with them. And, and Apple's a little bit more like, we, we wanna make cool tools, but we don't wanna make anything that you could potentially do anything evil with, even if that, or nefarious, I shouldn't say evil, but like nefarious with, even if that means restricting our tools more than other manufacturers.

• 17:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, true.

• 17:29David Imel?

  Where's Google? It's just like, let it fly, baby.

• 17:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:33Speaker 01

  Well, Google would like, show thing, you could, you could literally, remember that you'd have the kid on the bench with the balloons? And they just like slide them over on the bench and you're like, okay, now that's not a real thing.

• 17:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  Everyone, everyone watched that and went, oh, they all thought of three other things that they could change in their head that would be completely insane and not part of the original capture.

• 17:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  So, yeah, that, they walked that line into a very, very different place than Google does.

• 17:55David Imel?

  Oh, so you had a story here?

• 17:56Speaker 04

  I did. So I, I was at, I was at game four of the Sixers this weekend.

• 18:00Speaker 01

  Did they win that one?

• 18:01Speaker 04

  No, they did not. Spent a hundred and forty-four dollars on the worst basketball game I've ever seen. Still love that team Sixers and the Seven.

• 18:10David Imel?

  What happened to this podcast?

• 18:11Speaker 04

  I'm, I'm, I'm on the subway, I'm on the SEPTA going back to catch my bus back to New York and kid and dad both in Celtics gear. Just kidding.

• 18:22Speaker 04

  But they had taken a picture at the game and, uh, they'd taken a picture at the game. And the kid and the dad, very stoked, head to toe jerseys. And the, the dad's kind of, kind of bummed because, uh, there's like a weird shadow across, uh, his face. And the photo's like kind of ruined, you know, it was kind of thing where like, a lot of people, crowded area, hey, can you take this picture? They only have time for one snap, they get out of there. And the dad's like, damn, like, I really wanted to post this, but like, you can't really, the shadow's really weird, you can't really see my face. This is like not a really good memory photo. And the kid's like, no, you can just edit it. He's on a Pixel. And the dad's like, no, that's not how photo editing works. The kid's like nine, by the way, like, like, like clearly in elementary school.

• 18:59Speaker 01

  Dad, just ask it to do it.

• 19:00Speaker 04

  The dad's like, no, no, no, like, you can raise the brightness, but then it'll look really weird. And the kid's just like, give me your phone. And he doesn't, on the subway, does like the, I don't know, I don't have a Pixel, I don't know what tool, but he does the AI photo enhance thing and like, cleans up the face shadow like that. And the dad was just like, oh.

• 19:16David Imel?

  What is this black magic?

• 19:18Speaker 04

  What?

• 19:18David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 19:19Speaker 04

  My phone could do, I was like, oh, wow. So like, not only are people using these features, but like,

• 19:24David Imel?

  Dude.

• 19:24Speaker 04

  Children are like very aware.

• 19:26David Imel?

  I'm just like, if I showed some of this stuff to my dead grandma, like she would, her mind would be blown.

• 19:32Speaker 05

  My grandmother recently passed away and we have a video of my father interviewing her many years ago about her life story. So I was going through that video to try to like, clean it up because my dad used Windows, some like free trial. Yeah, Windows Movie Maker, some free trial thing that has a giant watermark over it. So I spent like a hundred something dollars on some weird AI video editing tool to like, remove that watermark. And it did, but there are parts where the watermark was over her face and it just like, completely warped it into some, like demonic looking thing.

• 20:08David Imel?

  Oh geez.

• 20:09Speaker 05

  So I am very skeptical about these tools with human faces in particular. Like that's a real touchy area because if it does it in the wrong way, it just like completely ruins the memory.

• 20:19David Imel?

  Human faces, I think that we're particularly attuned at noticing the patterns on what people's faces look like. So like, you know, if Marquez gets generated on Gemini or whatever, and it's like, it looks 98% like Marquez.

• 20:32Speaker 05

  But he's acidified.

• 20:33David Imel?

  But that's not quite Marquez.

• 20:35Speaker 04

  Dude, I.

• 20:35David Imel?

  You can always notice, you know?

• 20:37Speaker 04

  I spend so much time looking at Marquez's face professionally that.

• 20:41Speaker 05

  And personally.

• 20:42David Imel?

  Respectfully.

• 20:42Speaker 04

  Respectfully. No, that when you get shot on unusual focal lengths, I'm like, ugh, like, like something's really. Not that you look bad, but it's just like, I'm so used to seeing you between 30 and 60 millimeters.

• 20:54David Imel?

  Totally.

• 20:54Speaker 04

  That when I see you on a telephoto or I see you on an ultra wide, I'm like, what?

• 20:58David Imel?

  That, I do that to my, I look in a mirror and I look at like, the swapped version and that looks weird to me still.

• 21:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:04David Imel?

  Yeah. Remember when Samsung, there was all that talk about how you could erase an object in front of your face and it would regenerate your face? And it would actually look shockingly good? We had a short about that.

• 21:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:14David Imel?

  Like.

• 21:15Speaker 01

  People on one hand hate that Samsung has to know a lot about your face to do that really good regeneration of your face, but on the other hand, it works the best for that particular use case.

• 21:28David Imel?

  I mean, it's the whole, the more context you give it, the better it's gonna be, but that means you have to give it more of your information and data.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  More of your life.

• 21:35David Imel?

  That's how it goes.

• 21:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:36David Imel?

  Okay, so there's another Mark Gurman leak that Apple is working on. So he went on TBPN, which if people don't know, it's OpenAI's propaganda outlet.

• 21:44Speaker 04

  Oh, that horn, hit the air horn, that was fire. Where is it? It's the, there we go.

• 21:49David Imel?

  Thanks, Alice. He went over six different new product categories that Apple is allegedly working on.

• 21:53Speaker 01

  Let's talk about it.

• 21:54David Imel?

  So I want us to talk about each of these.

• 21:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:56David Imel?

  All right. Number one. AI AirPods.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  Here we go.

• 22:02Speaker 04

  Why?

• 22:02Speaker 03

  What is that?

• 22:03David Imel?

  I don't know.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  I can tell you, there is some AI in AirPods already.

• 22:10David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  But what this means is something actually, a little more insane, right? There's the cameras in the AirPods, right?

• 22:16David Imel?

  Probably.

• 22:17Speaker 04

  Oh, this is like the humane AI pods.

• 22:20Speaker 01

  So right now, AirPods can do live translate type stuff with AI. They can, they do, because they've always called it machine learning and neural nets and stuff like with active noise cancellation, transparency mode and all the like, stuff that they do with processing with the compute on AirPods.

• 22:34David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  But AI AirPods is adding sensors and more compute to these things to make them like, almost a little more standalone of like an AI thing.

• 22:43David Imel?

  Totally.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  I don't know how I feel about that.

• 22:46David Imel?

  Yeah, I don't want cameras on my earbuds.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:50David Imel?

  I will say.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  I also, I will, I think we should preface this by saying, these are all things that they could be working on, not necessarily guaranteed upcoming products.

• 22:56David Imel?

  For sure.

• 22:56Speaker 01

  There is for sure, tons of crazy unannounced unreleased products underground in Apple Park somewhere that will never see the light of day. This could be six of those, but they're at least thinking about it.

• 23:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 23:08Speaker 01

  So yeah, AI AirPods.

• 23:09David Imel?

  You have any thoughts, Alice?

• 23:12Speaker 04

  My thought, I have two thoughts, and they're actually in like, direct contradiction with one another, which is if.

• 23:17David Imel?

  Argue with yourself.

• 23:18Speaker 04

  If, if it's like camera, you know, what is this style AI product that has happened as a headphones in, I feel like they will almost definitely release like a necklace pendant.

• 23:29David Imel?

  Well, that's later on the list.

• 23:32Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 23:32David Imel?

  So we'll talk about that in a bit.

• 23:34Speaker 01

  Well, the one, so the thing that these are closest actually to in terms of functionality would be like the Meta glasses.

• 23:41Speaker 04

  So that was my other point, which is like, as much as I would love to see these as a pendant, just because I think Apple is generally really good at wearables. I also think like, if this is personal opinion time, I think the Meta glasses are like, possibly the worst idea of a product in like the last 10 years. And so it's just like, I would hate for Apple to get in on the, the always on camera, privacy nightmare, we don't care about you.

• 24:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:08Speaker 04

  Train.

• 24:09Speaker 01

  So here's where I'll push back a little bit.

• 24:12Speaker 04

  Please.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  The, the Meta, all the stuff we've heard about Meta has a lot to do with privacy and how the data's been treated.

• 24:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  And the one thing that Apple has always been on the, I'd say, correct side of the line is how they treat your data, which is

• 24:24Speaker 04

  I agree.

• 24:24Speaker 01

  most of it never leaving the device, most of it being treated very securely.

• 24:27Speaker 04

  Yeah. If it does leave the device, it's encrypted to all hell.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  Right. So if they can offer the same functionality that Meta is with the glasses.

• 24:34Speaker 04

  That's a great point.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Which is potentially being able to ask something about what you're standing in front of. I'm standing in front of this monument, but I'm hard of hearing or I don't have great eyesight, but tell me what I'm, I'm about to like be looking at, stuff like that.

• 24:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 24:45Speaker 01

  Could, without having glasses on, could give you the same functionality and deliver it directly into your ears.

• 24:50David Imel?

  It is true. The fact that you need to be wearing these glasses in order to get the contextual information is pretty annoying. And in, at least in Brooklyn, if you are walking down the street, you are wearing headphones.

• 25:01Speaker 01

  And the one thing Apple has been incredibly good at for a long time is introducing a new thing for you to use slash wear that looks kind of silly at first, and then it's everywhere and everyone's used to it. You remember when AirPods first came out?

• 25:11Speaker 04

  Oh, do I.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  With the long, long white stem. We all made fun of that for so long and then it was just everywhere.

• 25:17David Imel?

  I found a tweet from even more than six years ago when those came out and I was, I was [BLEEP] hard. Because they looked ridiculous. Well, I was wrong about that. They objectively.

• 25:27Speaker 05

  I think you were right. I think they do.

• 25:28David Imel?

  They objectively look ridiculous, but when everyone's wearing them, they don't look. The first one, Gen 1, still looks stupid, in my opinion. With the long. The long stem. The long. The long. They did shorten the stem. Yeah, I was. Short stem's fine.

• 25:40Speaker 04

  I think I was a freshman in college when they came out and I just remember them instantly becoming a status symbol because it's not like they were super expensive, but they were pretty expensive. And it was still like, when they came out, the big question was like, how are you not going to lose these?

• 25:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 25:55Speaker 04

  And so it instantly became like a, I'm wealthy enough to lose these and buy another one sort of product.

• 25:59David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 26:00Speaker 04

  But so that's how I feel. It's like, I actually, I, I, I take back what I said, Marcus, because you are right. Like, I do think if Apple did make the, I'm always pointing a camera at something, they, they would hopefully keep that in line with their current data practices.

• 26:13David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 26:14Speaker 04

  It's. But I have trust issues.

• 26:16David Imel?

  Well, everybody does. This is kind of what I think they're going to struggle with is anytime Apple is going to have a camera that is always pointed at people, even if they have all of these security practices and all of these things about, we only use it if you give it these permissions and we only use it when you say these certain commands, people are going to feel nervous. Like, remember when the AirTags came out and for like six months, people were like, I'm gonna be stocked with these. Yeah. So. Yeah. Which is a real problem. Yes, which is a real problem.

• 26:44Speaker 05

  I have, it's not necessarily trust issues. It's more that the practical way these products work, they're gonna have a leak at some point, right? Because there's gonna be something that the camera doesn't understand and there's gonna have to be a third party human looking at it to decipher it to make the models better.

• 26:59David Imel?

  That's a good.

• 27:00Speaker 05

  Moving forward.

• 27:01David Imel?

  Will Apple do that?

• 27:01Speaker 05

  Is that?

• 27:02David Imel?

  That's what I'm saying. I want to see how they're gonna navigate it. I think that's the reason it's like a double sided or double edged sword. Like, that's the reason Apple's AI has been so poor is because they don't do that. Yeah. So their models are so far behind because they're not improving in that way. Yeah. And so you get the benefit of having that extra privacy, but you have these far worse, far smaller models with way less information. Maybe what they'll do is they'll take the image and then they'll send it to their like private cloud compute that's running the Gemini and then Gemini will parse it and then send it back to your.

• 27:33Speaker 04

  Or maybe they're just trying to build a quick snap camera. You know, the most popular feature from everyone I've talked to owns meta glasses is just being able to

• 27:41David Imel?

  Video.

• 27:41Speaker 04

  take pictures and videos.

• 27:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 27:43Speaker 04

  And POV it.

• 27:44David Imel?

  Nobody really cares about the AI parts of the meta glass.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  What is the angle like from the side of your head?

• 27:49Speaker 04

  Oh, you think they'd be on, I assume they would be on the.

• 27:52David Imel?

  Oh, no.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  On the case?

• 27:53Speaker 04

  On the case.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  Oh, no, I think the rumor is that they're in the stems.

• 27:57Speaker 04

  Well, then wouldn't it just, you're, that's just eyes.

• 28:00David Imel?

  Yeah, that's the point.

• 28:01Speaker 01

  Exactly, just like the meta glasses.

• 28:03David Imel?

  Like you have eyes.

• 28:03Speaker 01

  So they're, they're operating at your field of view and can look at what you're looking at.

• 28:07Speaker 04

  I, I totally assumed it would be like a lanyard.

• 28:09David Imel?

  However.

• 28:10Speaker 03

  But like on your ears, like what about my hair?

• 28:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a lot of questions. There's a lot of questions.

• 28:15Speaker 03

  That doesn't make any sense.

• 28:16David Imel?

  Ellis, I actually like your opinion, like thought process on it, because it would make a lot of sense to put it on the case, because then you're not, you know, having a camera looking at people.

• 28:25Speaker 01

  That was a rumor, though, that potentially Apple was going to do a camera in the Apple Watch.

• 28:30Speaker 04

  If, if the, if picture, this solves the hair thing, right? Because if the cameras were instead of being on the stock, were on the outside of the bud facing like perpendicular to your eyes, you would, in order to act like, look at something, you'd go, move your hair back and go.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  That's actually true.

• 28:46David Imel?

  I'm hearing images right now.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  And I could, Apple make that a thing that people think is normal?

• 28:51David Imel?

  Probably.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  Maybe?

• 28:53Speaker 04

  For audio listeners, I just pretended to brush my hair back and did the most cartoony, I'm listening to something cupping ear possible.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  Point your ear at the thing.

• 29:01Speaker 04

  So.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  Well, yeah.

• 29:03Speaker 04

  There's a lot more products on this.

• 29:04David Imel?

  There's five more products. We really got to run through this. So.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:06David Imel?

  Number two, smart glasses. We know they've been working on these for a very long time.

• 29:10Speaker 01

  Bring it on.

• 29:11David Imel?

  This seems pretty straightforward.

• 29:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:13David Imel?

  I don't think there's really a lot to talk about there.

• 29:14Speaker 04

  Well, I guess it's, will they have displays or not, which is.

• 29:17David Imel?

  I don't think they're going to have displays.

• 29:18Speaker 01

  I think they'll start with no displays and they'll eventually make a, a one with displays.

• 29:22David Imel?

  Yeah. Yeah. They just showed you notifications or something, I don't know.

• 29:26Speaker 04

  I do have one interesting thing to say about the smart glasses, which is probably going to have like a million people in the comments being like, "You have no idea what you're talking about." But Apple loves aluminum. Aluminum's really cool because it is strong and light, but it is also bendy. And if we learned one thing from talking to the Meta Glasses engineers, it's that bendy smart glasses with displays are not good.

• 29:48David Imel?

  They need rigidity.

• 29:49Speaker 04

  And so I wonder what they're gonna make them out of, if they do have displays. That's my, that's my two cents, repen those pennies together. Up next was a smart display.

• 29:56David Imel?

  Yeah, so this is basically, it's like a home display.

• 30:00Speaker 04

  Oh, it's like the, the-

• 30:02David Imel?

  Yeah, it's like a Google Nest, uh, Nest Hub.

• 30:04Speaker 01

  Home Hub.

• 30:05David Imel?

  Nest Hub.

• 30:06Speaker 05

  It's the one they've had in a basement of Apple Park, just like waiting to be released for a decade.

• 30:10Speaker 01

  Well, the HomePod, it's, it feels so obvious. Like, the HomePod sits there, it's a nice speaker. You have a HomePod Mini, because HomePod wouldn't sell it, because it's a bazillion dollars. So then you have a $99 HomePod Mini. That's still 100 bucks, it's still just Siri. What if you could control your HomeKit stuff? And, and press buttons instead of lying on Siri? It seems so obvious.

• 30:31David Imel?

  I have, yeah, I have a Nest Hub Mini and a, and a Home, what is it, HomePod Mini. I have both of them.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:39David Imel?

  New, next to each other.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:41David Imel?

  Because I like the, I like the display, you know, it would be very obvious. Um, I don't know, they haven't done that yet. But an extension of that is their tabletop robot that they've been working on, which is effectively like an iPad on a little robot thing that can like move around and point at you and do stuff like that. This has been rumored for quite a while at this point.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  I never got this one. What does it, okay, I get what an iPad does. I, I'm picturing it on a table connected to an arm, so it can point in different directions. Why would I want it to be on a table connected to an arm?

• 31:13David Imel?

  Um, I think it's-

• 31:16Speaker 04

  Oh, oh.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Like, the center stage camera already lets me have a FaceTime call and walk around.

• 31:21Speaker 04

  No, no, no, no. So I, I have a thing to add to this. Do you remember a year and a half, maybe two years ago, Apple released that research paper on animatronic motion? Do you guys remember this?

• 31:32David Imel?

  Yes.

• 31:32Speaker 04

  They built a smart lamp.

• 31:34David Imel?

  Yes.

• 31:34Speaker 04

  And they did all of this testing to see what kind of moves.

• 31:37David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 31:38Speaker 04

  Does this robot lamp, it's sort of like a Pixar lamp.

• 31:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 31:40Speaker 04

  And what kind of moves does it need to make to make people like it? And they discovered that.

• 31:43David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 31:43Speaker 04

  In order to make people like the lamp, actually, these nonlinear, sort of extra artsy, dancy moves. Were really, so I wonder if this is the culmination of all of that.

• 31:53David Imel?

  So interesting. I mean, considering they used to own Pixar, they have some lineage there.

• 31:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  You remember the, what was the phone that just came out, the AI? A little gimbal on a.

• 32:04David Imel?

  Oh, the Honor?

• 32:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:05David Imel?

  Honor, yeah. Robot phone?

• 32:06Speaker 01

  The Honor robot phone did that?

• 32:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  It is, I guess it's a concept phone, it's not like a retail phone. But it, it had this gimbal with a camera on top of it. And it would also kind of give you these like little nods and shake its head at you. And it would give you not fully anthropomorphic looks, but it would kind of have a face type of thing. It's still, still kind of weird.

• 32:26David Imel?

  Yeah, I'm not really sure what Apple's angle on this is.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:29David Imel?

  To be honest.

• 32:29Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't understand that product, to be honest.

• 32:31David Imel?

  I think it would be cool.

• 32:32Speaker 04

  I, yeah, I guess I sort of agree with you. The, the lamp was really cool, like, I'm, uh, the lamp was really cool because, uh, it had this sort of ability to, you could direct where it was, what it was illuminating with all sorts of like gestures and commands. And it would just sort of seem like the most fun futuristic lamp you could buy. But I don't know if it has a, if it's gonna have like a grasper or, or, or what.

• 32:54David Imel?

  I don't think it's supposed to have a grasp thing, like a, like a claw. Yeah, they basically made a Pixar lamp. Oh, my God. In real life.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  If it is actually a lamp and it has a display with speakers, I would use this.

• 33:05David Imel?

  If it was a lamp, I would buy it.

• 33:07Speaker 01

  This would be like an $800 lamp.

• 33:08David Imel?

  Probably. If it was a lamp, I'd be stoked.

• 33:10Speaker 04

  I only think it's a lamp just because they.

• 33:12David Imel?

  I don't think it's a lamp.

• 33:13Speaker 04

  They, you know, this is on Apple's website, like they.

• 33:15David Imel?

  Hmm, yeah.

• 33:15Speaker 04

  This is something that they.

• 33:16David Imel?

  Machine learning research.

• 33:17Speaker 04

  They did. Uh, you should read this paper, it's, it's really cool. Like the, they did a lot of research into like, to, in order to move six inches to the left, do you do it linearly? How do you ramp the speed?

• 33:28David Imel?

  Yeah, animation in real life.

• 33:29Speaker 04

  Like cock back and then sway, like, it's really cool.

• 33:32David Imel?

  To make it friendly, yeah.

• 33:33Speaker 04

  Yeah. I'm also just want to say, if they release the, the HomePod with a screen, they're gonna call it the HomePad.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:38Speaker 04

  Um, that's. Just wanted to.

• 33:39David Imel?

  Actually been the leaked name.

• 33:40Speaker 04

  God, sorry, Alice.

• 33:43Speaker 01

  Alex thought he was making a very clever prediction slash joke. But that's probably what it's called.

• 33:47David Imel?

  If you search homepad, it'll come up.

• 33:48Speaker 04

  No way.

• 33:49David Imel?

  Yeah, sorry.

• 33:51Speaker 04

  All right, security camera.

• 33:52David Imel?

  No, actually, actually, we skipped pendant by accident.

• 33:54Speaker 04

  Well, yeah, we did skip pendant.

• 33:56David Imel?

  I mean, we kind of.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  Pendant slash necklace. It's another version of let me put a sensor on you that you can wear all the time. It's not glasses, it's not on your AirPods, but it's around your neck. Works in fashion. You put a nice Hermes necklace or whatever. I don't know who makes necklaces, but you put a fashion accessory around your neck. And then that is your little AI accessory from Apple.

• 34:15David Imel?

  Chokers are back, baby.

• 34:17Speaker 01

  Choker.

• 34:17Speaker 04

  No.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Apple choker. You say that, but someone's gonna do that.

• 34:21Speaker 04

  I know, but AI choker just sounds like the.

• 34:24Speaker 01

  That is the most gen alpha. It's gonna happen.

• 34:26David Imel?

  Already being made. The thing about this is they kind of tried to make the Apple Watch fashion. You know, they made, well, they really did. They've really tried to make it fashion.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  The gold one?

• 34:34David Imel?

  Well, all of them, really. They, but then eventually the Apple, because all the Apple Watches look exactly the same, like the shape of them. I never really want to wear mine anymore because it just looks like what everyone else is wearing.

• 34:46Speaker 01

  It accidentally, yeah, it was funny before. So it started off, there were no Apple Watches. There were some smartwatches and they were kind of dorky. So Apple comes along.

• 34:53David Imel?

  There were no Apple Watches.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  They were like, watches are fashion. So if we're going to sell a watch as Apple, the cool tech company, it needs to be fashionable. So they made the Apple Watch Edition. They had a gold one. They had this Hermes collection of watch bands. They had all these accessories and they very much marketed it and presented it as a fashion accessory that happens to be a connecting to your iPhone. Fast forward to today, it is everywhere, like you said. So now it's less fashion, more utility. I remember having that like random Kevin O'Leary interview pop up on my feed every once in a while where he's like, I wear this extremely nice watch and I wouldn't be caught dead wearing that Apple Watch because that's. That says I'm 50% off and I have this incredible timepiece I love and I'm like that's how people

• 35:40David Imel?

  That's crazy.

• 35:41Speaker 01

  appreciate fashion watches think of the Apple Watch now. So it's flipped.

• 35:44David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  But yeah, it's been

• 35:46Speaker 05

  It's been one of those things that just has a ton of

• 35:48David Imel?

  Well, so my question is like, if you make a pendant and they all look the same, I mean, part of the part of the reason people wear necklaces is because they're unique and different.

• 35:56Speaker 01

  Fashion.

• 35:57David Imel?

  So it's kind of insane to like, release one necklace that looks exactly the same.

• 36:02Speaker 05

  Just different chains.

• 36:03David Imel?

  Yeah, but that's not enough differentiation, I don't think.

• 36:05Speaker 05

  I mean, with the Apple Watch, you just changed the band.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  Okay. What if it goes the, what if it goes the way of AirPods? The little white ball is a status symbol. The way AirPods were. And it's the I have an iPhone necklace, but then you get to fashion accessorize it with a different chain.

• 36:21David Imel?

  I think people If that's enough.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  Unfortunately, people

• 36:24Speaker 05

  But okay, wait, we keep omitting a part. What does it do?

• 36:28Speaker 04

  Nothing.

• 36:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, right?

• 36:30Speaker 04

  I mean, it probably is stuff.

• 36:31Speaker 05

  Well, it just always records?

• 36:32Speaker 01

  It's endlessly gathering context and offering you like the AI assistant, the same way the Meta glasses AI assistant has context.

• 36:40David Imel?

  I have a feeling it won't have a camera.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, probably doesn't need

• 36:43David Imel?

  The pendant, I think is just gonna have like a noise. It'll, it'll do all the other biometric stuff that you need to know. Like, are you in a loud environment? Are you, how many steps, is there a pedometer in it?

• 36:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, is it gonna listen to everything you say?

• 36:54David Imel?

  I doubt it.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  It's just gonna listen to the key

• 36:56David Imel?

  I think it'll have like temperature sensor and like a loudness sensor. And it'll just be all those things that it's like your ambient environment and that way it can be put into your health app. And then eventually, because they're eventually gonna like move further and further into the health stuff and try to like, you know, say, oh, I've known every environment that you've been in in the last month. And now you can give that data to your doctor and then your doctor can tell you if, you know, you, I don't know, have been going to too many concerts.

• 37:21Speaker 04

  No, no, no. It'll be, it'll give your data to your doctor and your doctor's AI will

• 37:26Speaker 01

  That's true. Will parse through it.

• 37:27Speaker 04

  I'm not sure. I think all of these new products sort of beg this, are beginning to beg this question of what cognition are you willing to offload? And I'm not sure context is the kind of cognition I want to offload. I'm not saying it's a bad thing if that is, but like the whole, this whole idea of like, It'll it'll just be constantly capturing your day and all the things you hear and stuff like that. Like, I get it in in theory, but I I feel like I do fine just like remembering what happened in my day and resynthesizing it later. And the kind of cognition that I'm more okay offloading is like, what's the the best way to organize this div class in a in an HTML doc?

• 38:07Speaker 01

  I'll offer you a devil's advocate, because I think a lot of Apple's best products come with a great ad that demonstrates like how they expect people to use it, like the use case for it. And human memory, everyone knows, is inherently a little bit flawed.

• 38:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 38:23Speaker 01

  And so there's going to be the use case of like, Siri, where did I leave my blah, blah, blah? And it's going to go, oh, last place I saw that was Blair. And you go find it. And it's like, ah, I'm so glad I had this context gathering thing that remembers it because I didn't remember it. And that's an ad, and that's a use case, and that's a, oh, I think I might want to buy this.

• 38:40Speaker 04

  Well, in the first like year of ChatGPT, every AI like startup company was some sort of just context necklace. Yeah, yeah. I I just think we should be aware, because I do kind of believe that when you offload the forms of cognition to the AI, you you lose them and you have to retrain them if you want them back, you know? And I do think we have to start asking ourselves, like, what are we okay losing? Because as soon as you start put, as soon as you dawn the pendant and you begin not being as aware, because you can sort of just be like, oh, the pendant will remember that. I think you will very quickly realize that your short term memory is just gone.

• 39:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, there's been studies already showing this.

• 39:18Speaker 04

  Yeah. And so I think I do think as as cool as the idea of I will never lose my keys again will be. I do think we need to start asking ourselves that question. Am I willing to lose this part of my brain? And there are parts, again.

• 39:31Speaker 01

  I've already decided which parts I got rid of.

• 39:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, I I do not want any mental space taken up by how HTML works. I am totally fine letting a robot do that for me.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  Everyone will have a different line in the sand for what they're willing to offload.

• 39:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  I have my tasks app that I fully rely on. If I don't write it down, I'm not going to remember. And I know I won't remember. And I know that if I write it down, I will. And that's that's where my line is for some people. When I go through a briefing and I need to remember all the little details of something, I take my notes. Some people specifically use AI tools to take notes on meetings. That's the thing that it's good for. It'll give you a summary at the end, and that's why you use it. So.

• 40:08Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, speaking of capturing other people doing stuff, the last item on this list is a security camera, which.

• 40:17Speaker 04

  I mean, I like it, going back to what Adam said earlier, because now we know that the Ring cameras are just cybersecurity nightmares and like unbelievably easy to hack into. So I would hope that we get the the Apple encryption treatment on the Apple cameras.

• 40:32David Imel?

  That would be nice. That would be a big up for them. A lot of people would probably like that. The other thing is that they just have not pushed into smart home stuff almost at all.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  They're like the hub, but none of the accessories.

• 40:43David Imel?

  Yeah, like Made for HomeKit is this like overly convoluted like thing where they have to approve everything that gets the Made for HomeKit badge and like they're way more strict about it versus like Amazon and Google. The reason that they were supporting Matter so heavily is because the amount of products that are that work with HomeKit is way, way less than like, you know, Google's like in the middle there where they have some Made for Google Assistant or whatever. And then Alexa's like, let's go, baby. Just keep slapping it on. So they were happy to have the Matter products. It makes more sense for them now to actually get into their own product category again, because they could, I mean, they could dominate with a lot of home stuff.

• 41:22Speaker 01

  This, this to me felt like another obvious one. Like they make the iPhone, which has a great camera and also a smart camera experience. And then obviously they make the Home Hub and then they can have a connected, just it feels so obvious.

• 41:35David Imel?

  And the security thing is huge.

• 41:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then put the screen on the HomePod so I can see my feed. So once one rings the Apple doorbell, I get the feed from the video. Yeah.

• 41:43David Imel?

  Maybe that's what the the robot is for. So when someone rings your doorbell, swivel over to you and be like, hey, look, it's John Turner's at your door.

• 41:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, he wants to be CEO. Is the A18 gonna be in everything? Are we like a few years down the road, are we just gonna live in a giant sea of A18 chips?

• 41:59David Imel?

  I mean, they barely have enough for the Neo right now. So.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. They put them in the Studio Display.

• 42:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

• 42:05David Imel?

  There's a whole iPhone in your display.

• 42:07Speaker 04

  If you, if you've a, if you've an iPhone and a Studio Display and a MacBook Neo.

• 42:12David Imel?

  You have three A18s.

• 42:13Speaker 04

  You have three like identical devices right there.

• 42:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, A18, A18 Pro. Oh, no. Yeah. So base iPhone.

• 42:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, base iPhone.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  And then a Studio Display, non-XDR is also an A18.

• 42:23Speaker 04

  Is there an M chip in? No, there's an A18 in this, right?

• 42:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's an A18 in that. The Pro iPhone has A18 Pro though.

• 42:29Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  A 19 Pro, actually. A 19 Pro. So you have an A19, an A18, and another A18. It's crazy. All right. Speaking of A.

• 42:38David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 42:39Speaker 04

  Ayy.

• 42:40David Imel?

  Uh, ad break.

• 42:41Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 42:42Speaker 01

  A ad break. Trivia.

• 42:46David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 42:47Speaker 05

  Trivia. So, first question. We are a mobile podcast. We talk about phones and stuff while people are on the go or washing their dishes.

• 42:57David Imel?

  A mobile podcast.

• 42:58Speaker 05

  Either way, whichever one you want. So, speaking of mobile stuff, let's talk about some mobile technology. CDMA.

• 43:05David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 43:05Speaker 05

  Stands for? Code Division Multiple Access. Sorry, Marcus. So what does GSM stand for?

• 43:16Speaker 04

  What is, what does CDMA stand for? Code Division Mobile Access?

• 43:19Speaker 05

  Multiple Access.

• 43:20Speaker 04

  Okay. And GSM?

• 43:22Speaker 05

  Stands for?

• 43:24David Imel?

  GSM Arena.

• 43:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, GSM stands for GSM Arena Site Mobile.

• 43:32Speaker 05

  Well, we'll think about that.

• 43:34David Imel?

  We will.

• 43:34Speaker 05

  Answers will be at the end like usual. We'll be right back.

• 43:45Speaker 01

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• 44:30Speaker 01

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• 44:44Speaker 06

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• 45:23Speaker 07

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• 45:53David Imel?

  All right, we're back. Okay, we were just talking about Apple making a lot of AI stuff, so now we're gonna pivot it a little bit. Samsung's displayless smart glasses have leaked.

• 46:02Speaker 01

  So just glasses, glasses?

• 46:05David Imel?

  They're just, well, they're smart glasses.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  Just AI glasses?

• 46:07David Imel?

  They've got a camera. They've got two cameras.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  A camera and AI glasses.

• 46:10David Imel?

  Yeah. So if you click the link, they have some, there are some renders in there.

• 46:14Speaker 01

  Let's see it.

• 46:15David Imel?

  But Android headlines got ahold of some supposedly allegedly leaked marketing images for the Galaxy glasses. If they're accurate.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  Galaxy glasses.

• 46:23David Imel?

  Yeah, Galaxy glasses, which makes sense.

• 46:25Speaker 04

  Oh, my God.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  Why is that so funny to me?

• 46:28David Imel?

  I don't know.

• 46:29Speaker 04

  Because it sounds like galaxy gas.

• 46:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, that might be why.

• 46:32David Imel?

  Oh, Galaxy glasses. Okay, well, if they're accurate, they have dual cameras, which is interesting. They go one on each side. They will have Samsung branding on the side. They don't seem to have an inner display right now, but apparently that is coming later next year. They are said to run on Gemini XR, you know, Android XR, which means they'll be controlled mostly through voice commands. And the alleged specs are the Qualcomm Snapdragon AR1 chip, which makes sense, 12-megapixel Sony sensors. A 155 milliamp hour battery, which is in line with Ray-Bans, bug connection speakers, 50 grams. Rumored to be priced between 379 and 499 dollars, which is a quite, quite a wide range.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  It's kind of a big range, but it isn't actually that big of a range, I think.

• 47:16David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  Like somewhere under 500.

• 47:19David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 47:19Speaker 01

  Is, it's not impulse buy territory, obviously, but it is not cheap.

• 47:23David Imel?

  They need to make these cheaper.

• 47:25Speaker 01

  You think so?

• 47:26David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 47:26Speaker 01

  So the Metas are what, 350?

• 47:28David Imel?

  Yeah, but those are.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  I bet they went up though.

• 47:29David Imel?

  But those are also Ray-Bans.

• 47:31Speaker 01

  True.

• 47:32David Imel?

  This is a random Samsung, like Samsung glasses.

• 47:35Speaker 01

  Aren't they gonna collab, so I haven't read this article yet, but typically there's some sort of, I think they all recognize they have to collab with a glasses maker.

• 47:41David Imel?

  I don't know if Samsung.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  Or, or Luxottica, whoever, they just, they need someone to make the glasses.

• 47:47David Imel?

  Samsung hasn't announced a collab yet. Google did, because Google's doing Warby Parker and Gentle Monster.

• 47:52Speaker 01

  Right. There's only so many companies to go around.

• 47:54Speaker 04

  I like Gentle Monster glasses.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  See, that's exactly the reaction.

• 47:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, but I'm not.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  Cause you're not.

• 48:01Speaker 01

  They're hoping, you know, think about it as Google glasses. They're like, oh, I could get the Gentle Monster glasses with these features in them.

• 48:07Speaker 05

  It's 100% Gentle Monster, because that's also a South Korean company.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  That's true. Interesting.

• 48:12David Imel?

  But can they do that for, with Google and Twitch?

• 48:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, I don't think they can, they can.

• 48:16Speaker 05

  Why not? Google and Samsung are like besties, slash frenemies.

• 48:18Speaker 01

  I think once they're off the market, once you do one collab, you're, you're locked in.

• 48:21Speaker 04

  Once you already have a date to the prom, you can't mess around like that. We've seen the movies.

• 48:25Speaker 05

  Well, did they say that Google has a collab with them, or Android XR has a collab with them?

• 48:29David Imel?

  Google.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  It was Google.

• 48:30Speaker 05

  It is Google itself.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, so now we'll see.

• 48:32David Imel?

  But I mean, overall, Android, like, you're going to see, this is Google's advantage in this case, right? It's, it's the same advantage that Android has over the iPhone, where they have so many manufacturers, like Samsung's gonna make smart glasses, Oppo's gonna make smart glasses, Vivo's gonna make smart glasses. OnePlus is probably gonna make smart glasses.

• 48:49Speaker 01

  Everybody in the club.

• 48:50David Imel?

  Everybody in the club makes smart glasses. Everyone's doing it.

• 48:52Speaker 04

  Stop.

• 48:53David Imel?

  Is that not how that song goes?

• 48:55Speaker 01

  My question is, why is it dual cameras?

• 48:59David Imel?

  Um.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  Why the left and the right?

• 49:01Speaker 04

  Are they not all dual cameras?

• 49:02Speaker 01

  No. So Metas are just on one side, and then a sort of dummy lens on the other side for symmetry, but you only record from one side.

• 49:10Speaker 05

  Would that be for depth information?

• 49:11Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 49:11David Imel?

  That seems like the only reasonable way to have two cameras facing the same direction.

• 49:16Speaker 05

  Maybe.

• 49:17David Imel?

  Maybe it's for the Galaxy XR.

• 49:20Speaker 05

  That's probably.

• 49:22David Imel?

  So you like you record in 3D maybe and then you can watch 3D videos?

• 49:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, if you have a fixed distance, this is what we're talking about Ellis with the rigidity, like you have a perfectly fixed, exactly measurable distance between the two lenses at all times. You can design an algorithm to make stereoscopic video from that.

• 49:39David Imel?

  That you use in the Galaxy, what is, what are their Vision Pro called?

• 49:43Speaker 01

  So we saw one of those Project Muhan, now it's the Galaxy XR.

• 49:47David Imel?

  Is that what it is?

• 49:48Speaker 01

  Double check, but yeah, I think so.

• 49:50David Imel?

  Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if there.

• 49:52Speaker 05

  It is Galaxy XR.

• 49:53David Imel?

  I don't know if there's that many Samsung super fans that are like gonna spend that much money on Samsung smart glasses. I would personally buy Google smart glasses before Samsung smart glasses.

• 50:03Speaker 01

  So it'll be interesting when those are out, when the Samsung ones are out and the Google ones are out. And they have a hugely overlapping functionality and they look almost the same and they're priced almost the same. Like what's gonna make someone pick one versus the other?

• 50:14David Imel?

  Samsung's gonna have to figure out how to make them work better for their ecosystem. Cause they have Samsung health, they have like, you know.

• 50:22Speaker 05

  You just look at your washing machine and it starts cleaning your clothes.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  That's actually probably what they're gonna do. They may have stuff that Google doesn't make where you could just like tell your fridge to do, or like ask it what's in your fridge and it'll tell you. Cause you have a Samsung fridge.

• 50:33David Imel?

  True.

• 50:34Speaker 01

  You know?

• 50:35Speaker 05

  I just wanna say it doesn't matter who makes it. If you're wearing glasses and recording your daughter at her birthday party, I'm gonna make fun of you.

• 50:41David Imel?

  It's like the Apple Vision Pro.

• 50:42Speaker 04

  No, that's, that's like the, that's the one, that's like the one use case I think is like, cool. With these, you know, like being like, oh, I need to take a video right now.

• 50:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, but not like, I mean, like the spatial video when they were demoing the Apple Vision Pro and it's just the guy like all up in his daughter's face.

• 50:57Speaker 04

  That's, that's, yeah.

• 51:00David Imel?

  That, I'm surprised we didn't make fun of that more. Being the one guy at a birthday party who's recording everything with a Vision Pro and like actively moving into this thing.

• 51:10Speaker 04

  Being the one guy at anything who's using a Vision Pro is tough.

• 51:14David Imel?

  What's it like to live in, live in Cofortino?

• 51:16Speaker 01

  Well.

• 51:17Speaker 04

  Oh my gosh.

• 51:18David Imel?

  Yeah, okay.

• 51:18Speaker 01

  They really tried to sell people on the, on the, watching back that memory will be special to you. So here's, here's the way you capture that memory is to be that guy.

• 51:27Speaker 04

  That being, the first home camcorders were pretty ginormous. And people still, I don't know if you were getting roasted for using one of those in the same way.

• 51:37Speaker 05

  I remember.

• 51:38Speaker 01

  Sure, but at least.

• 51:38Speaker 05

  My dad had one of those and everyone made fun of him.

• 51:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, but at least it.

• 51:41David Imel?

  Wasn't mounted to your face.

• 51:43Speaker 04

  But it was, I think.

• 51:44David Imel?

  To get the right POV.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  I mean, kind of. You had to put it up to your face.

• 51:46David Imel?

  Yeah, you were like this.

• 51:47Speaker 04

  Well, and the very first ones were so big, they had to sit on your shoulder and then you had a pack that you wore on your belt that actually held tapes.

• 51:54David Imel?

  That's old.

• 51:54Speaker 04

  So it was like, yeah.

• 51:56David Imel?

  That's sick. I guess the novelty of like the first cameras recording stuff, it was such an impactful thing to be able to actually watch something back later that maybe it was worth the social trade off.

• 52:05Speaker 04

  That's true.

• 52:05David Imel?

  Now it's like, oh, I can watch it in 3D. That's not that much.

• 52:09Speaker 04

  Oh, but I have to put on your sweaty thing?

• 52:11David Imel?

  Yeah, I'd rather not wear this thing. I can just capture with my phone like everybody else and I can still watch it and experience it later.

• 52:16Speaker 04

  And watch it in 3D because the iPhone like depth convert your things now.

• 52:20David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 52:22Speaker 04

  I don't know, man.

• 52:22David Imel?

  I don't know. I mean, it's a good way to capture stereoscopic video.

• 52:25Speaker 04

  I just like worry that this is just about training data, like.

• 52:28David Imel?

  It's all about training data.

• 52:29Speaker 04

  Like all these companies just are just trying to get training data and they're like, oh, well, we'll give you some cute glasses in exchange for you, you being our little lab rat.

• 52:37David Imel?

  Correct. That's what all of big tech has.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  That's technology for the past 20 years.

• 52:41David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 52:42Speaker 01

  Especially the last five.

• 52:43David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah, especially the last five.

• 52:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:46David Imel?

  Um, switching gears. Okay, this is a weird one. Spotify Premium now includes Peloton classes.

• 52:53Speaker 01

  Wait, what?

• 52:54David Imel?

  It's only the Peloton classes that don't need dedicated hardware. So no tread, which is the treadmill and no Peloton bike classes. But everything else like running, yoga, strength and Pilates, you now have access to in Spotify Premium.

• 53:08Speaker 01

  So you're saying I have a Spotify Premium subscription. I can open the Spotify app and I can take a yoga class in it.

• 53:15David Imel?

  Correct, correct.

• 53:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 53:17David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 53:19David Imel?

  I mean, there's a case to be made for like, Apple has the run with me and like the walk with me things. And you know, if you have like a running coach in your ear, I guess that's considered audio.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  You know, this is the opposite of, like some companies, uh, like car companies, their brand is so well known for one specific thing. But if they want to branch out into something else, they have to like start a new brand name to do that.

• 53:43David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  Even though they're the same company. So like Nissan makes. You know, cheap, reliable cars, great, but they want to make luxury cars. You can't have an expensive Nissan. Infinity, boom. Now you can sell the same stuff or sell more expensive stuff under the same company name, but a different name to actually get that across.

• 53:59David Imel?

  Right.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  Everyone knows Spotify is music.

• 54:02David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 54:03Speaker 01

  But they've been trying desperately to add to that, whether it's podcasts, whether it's the DJ, the AI stuff. Now this like Peloton class and yoga class, like I, I want it to be not the Spotify name.

• 54:15David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 54:16Speaker 01

  To actually have a chance.

• 54:16David Imel?

  I mean Netflix added games and then they added podcasts, you know, and Spotify added, they added audiobooks and they added podcasts. Cause remember Spotify originally didn't even have podcasts.

• 54:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 54:29David Imel?

  And then they became like the de facto podcast app for a lot of people.

• 54:32Speaker 01

  And I think they believe that that's because of the Spotify name. People open the Spotify app. They already like Spotify. They use it already. And so we're going to leverage the Spotify name to also be good at and popular at these other things.

• 54:43David Imel?

  I mean, at the end of the day, it's like they, I mean, they need to add more value in some way, but all of these streaming companies, whether it's Netflix, whether it's YouTube, whether it's Spotify, are just trying to build out full ecosystems where you can do basically everything in it. Because you know, there's this, um, what is the saying? It's like, we're competing for your, we're competing against you sleeping is what, I don't remember what tech CEO said this, but he was like, we're competing with your sleep. It was Reed Hastings, Netflix CEO. He said, we're competing with sleep on the margin.

• 55:13Speaker 01

  Okay. I could see that because you watch Netflix before you go to sleep. And if you want to keep staying on Netflix, you're trading your sleep. That makes a direct, okay.

• 55:20Speaker 05

  I think that also was in particular, someone was asking him about the competition with like YouTube and stuff. And he was like, oh, we don't really consider them our competition. Our biggest competition for your attention is like sleep.

• 55:30Speaker 01

  That is really funny. Considering also that YouTube is a direct competitor. That's really funny.

• 55:34David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 55:35Speaker 01

  This is how they're describing this move. Time on Spotify should feel meaningful and intentional, not something that slips away in a blur of mindless scrolling. That's why we've always invested in experiences that leave you feeling more energized, in control and empowered. We also look to user base and creators on our platform for inspiration, and that's why we're expanding into the new category, fitness.

• 55:56David Imel?

  Yeah, I mean, I can kinda see it. And also Peloton is like on the verge of bankruptcy again, so.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  Eat their lunch?

• 56:05David Imel?

  I mean, they need to do anything, you know what I mean? I think that what Peloton gets out of it is if people like the classes in general, they might buy a Peloton subscription for the actual bike and the tread. And then Spotify is like, oh, we're technically offering more value. If you're a Peloton user who doesn't have the bike or tread, but you still like the classes, then you could just cancel your Peloton subscription.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  True, if you're paying for two subscriptions, you can cancel one of them.

• 56:30David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 56:31Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 56:31David Imel?

  So.

• 56:32Speaker 01

  Peloton probably hates this.

• 56:33David Imel?

  It's weird. I think we're just gonna keep seeing like YouTube added the games. And I think we're just gonna continue to see all of these streaming companies build out the services that they offer so that you never leave their app.

• 56:44Speaker 01

  Fair enough.

• 56:44David Imel?

  But it does feel weird because Spotify should not be a fitness company.

• 56:48Speaker 03

  I feel like when I think of Peloton, I imagine it just, it always appears in places I don't expect it to be, or it should be.

• 56:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 56:56Speaker 03

  Just in advertising and like weird places they feature it. But it is bizarre that for this Peloton thing, you actively have to go out of your way to search for it. It's not like in the home UI. You have to search the word fitness and then it pulls it up. So it's not.

• 57:10David Imel?

  I mean, only launched like yesterday or the day before. So you might not even have gotten it yet.

• 57:15Speaker 03

  It's there.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, it is there.

• 57:18Speaker 04

  What is a sweat-free work? Oh, I guess it's like yoga. That's not really a work.

• 57:22David Imel?

  A lot of people sweat while they do yoga. Just gonna say.

• 57:25Speaker 04

  I'm gonna do a cereal. Let's do five-minute breathing. I guess I can't play this because.

• 57:29David Imel?

  No.

• 57:30Speaker 03

  Please don't.

• 57:31David Imel?

  Yeah, all right.

• 57:32Speaker 04

  All right.

• 57:32David Imel?

  Well, okay, we've got a big story, but first there's some breaking news that I just saw.

• 57:37Speaker 04

  Breaking news!

• 57:39David Imel?

  Google Photos is going to, is launching an AI try-on feature for clothes that you own.

• 57:44Speaker 04

  Oh, this is stupid.

• 57:45Speaker 01

  Clothes you already own?

• 57:47David Imel?

  Yes.

• 57:47Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 57:48Speaker 01

  So you have a picture of.

• 57:49David Imel?

  No, it's not stupid. I think it's cool.

• 57:51Speaker 04

  No, it, I have a big problem with the whole Google like try on this clothes with AI because that's not how clothes work.

• 57:58David Imel?

  Clothes like clothes, clothes drape over your body in a way that an AI just cannot predict. I don't know, that's true, man. It is true, it doesn't the. You just have to take a lot of nudes and then it'll know how it. It would also need an in-depth knowledge of where the stitches are on every art. Like, it's just not like you could see how a color would work. Yeah, which is helpful, though.

• 58:17Speaker 05

  Maybe this is like getting at the 80%. It's not going to be 100% perfect, but I can get a better sense of the proportions of something. Maybe if I use this feature versus if it's just floating with no body in it or a mannequin. I don't know.

• 58:30Speaker 03

  But if this is stuff we already have, it already has the data.

• 58:33David Imel?

  That's what I'm saying. Yeah. If it, if it already has a picture of you wearing it, then maybe it would. Yeah, if the feature is just like, show me how this fits on me and it just shows you the picture you already took. It's like, ah, that's how it fits. Yeah. Yeah, I mean. What is it supposed to do then? If it's not just showing you pictures you already took? Well, no, it's not just showing you pictures you already took. So it, it'll create cutouts. Here's a directly from Google's website. It'll create these cutouts of clothing that you've, you have photos of yourself wearing. And then you take a photo of yourself. I guess it probably already has photos of yourself and it'll literally put the clothes on you.

• 59:05Speaker 05

  So this is more like a mix and match type thing?

• 59:06David Imel?

  Yeah, it's a mix and match. You can save outfits and you can also share them with friends. Look, you guys think, think this is a bit, as a very non-fashionable person who's really bad at clothes? I kinda, I kinda really like this.

• 59:19Speaker 03

  No, I mean, there's companies that make apps for this.

• 59:22David Imel?

  I was gonna say, this is Sherlocking many apps.

• 59:24Speaker 03

  This isn't unusual.

• 59:25David Imel?

  Which is good, because those are all paid apps.

• 59:27Speaker 03

  Well, now Daddy Google owns all your outfits.

• 59:29David Imel?

  It's not good, but I like it.

• 59:31Speaker 05

  I'm a huge fan of this because one of the biggest like tech things for movies that I've always wanted was the wardrobe from Clueless. And that's what this is.

• 59:39David Imel?

  Is like a smart wardrobe?

• 59:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly. You like, it tells you what certain things in your wardrobe and how it looks on you. Like you could just swipe through and create different outfits based on the things you've wore. It's like, if I wore this jacket today, but tomorrow I wear a different pair of pants and I'm like, huh? I wonder how that jacket look, would look with those pants? And then you could just like swipe them through and make it look.

• 59:58David Imel?

  I love this. Filter by category, look at everything together or a deeper dive into a single category. Example, jewelry, tops or bottoms. Then scroll to rediscover long-forgotten items that might be buried in your closet. That's also cool. It's good, it's good. Create outfits with the ease, mix and match items and try on looks virtually. See how an outfit will look on you before you get dressed. See individual pieces and then click try. What I want. Is I want Gemini to suggest me clothing pairings.

• 1:00:25Speaker 05

  Let AI trust you?

• 1:00:26David Imel?

  Yes.

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  I'm sure it'll do that. It'll, you'll probably go, I'm going to a, you'll tell you like what kind of event it is. Like black tie, whatever other themes.

• 1:00:35David Imel?

  I'm going to a podcast.

• 1:00:36Speaker 03

  I mean.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  And it'll be like, where that thing you wore to the other podcast?

• 1:00:40David Imel?

  And I'll be like, really?

• 1:00:42Speaker 03

  This is probably like inherently tied to Google Shopping, right?

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:00:45David Imel?

  A hundred percent.

• 1:00:46Speaker 03

  Obviously, that's the most.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  It's going to start showing you things that you don't already own for sure and tell you, oh, you could.

• 1:00:51David Imel?

  I'm, I'm down with that, bro.

• 1:00:53Speaker 01

  You know it worked really well with that pair of pants you keep wearing? This other shirt you don't have.

• 1:00:57David Imel?

  You know how people are like, I love Instagram ads because they're relevant to me and it's actually good. Like I.

• 1:01:03Speaker 04

  People say that.

• 1:01:04David Imel?

  People do say that.

• 1:01:04Speaker 05

  I agree with that 100%.

• 1:01:06Speaker 01

  I do say that.

• 1:01:06David Imel?

  I have never bought anything on Instagram yet, although I might next week because I found something that I might want to buy for somebody I know. But, uh, and I keep, you know, being like, I can't let them win. I can't let them win.

• 1:01:19David Imel?

  However. But it's really good. I, I don't like going to just like clothing stores and just like looking at stuff and then having to, uh. I want to just like swipe through a gallery and be like, that looks good on me and then buy it. That's all I want to do.

• 1:01:32Speaker 05

  What if it's like, hey, that shirt you have doesn't look too good on you. What about this new shirt over here?

• 1:01:38David Imel?

  I don't think it would tell you it looked like [BLEEP]. I don't think so. I don't think that's how clothes work. I don't, I think, I think that's. It's not how clothes work, but it's 80% how clothes work and that's all I care about.

• 1:01:47Speaker 01

  People understand clothes to work enough.

• 1:01:49Speaker 05

  It's better than scrolling a website.

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:52Speaker 04

  Would you do this?

• 1:01:53David Imel?

  It's way better than scrolling a website.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  I don't.

• 1:01:56Speaker 04

  Would you do this with a car wrap?

• 1:02:00David Imel?

  Yes.

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:02:01David Imel?

  It's like deep breath.

• 1:02:02Speaker 01

  It would essentially be perfect for a car.

• 1:02:05David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:05Speaker 04

  Really? You don't need to see it in natural light and see it in, see the material and.

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  For the, again, the 90%, like, yes, there's the 5% of like, how does it look in different lights for different angles? But for the 90% of like, I can just import a model of the car and then just copy paste the text around of the car. That's good enough for me to decide.

• 1:02:23Speaker 04

  I don't know, man. I've been suit shopping a lot lately and like, I know my, my jacket.

• 1:02:27Speaker 05

  Suits are very different.

• 1:02:28Speaker 04

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 1:02:29David Imel?

  I would be suit.

• 1:02:30Speaker 04

  It's all the same, bros.

• 1:02:31Speaker 05

  No, it's not. A t-shirt is so different than how a suit fits.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think there's how picky are you going to be about this piece of clothing, which is the same as the car?

• 1:02:38Speaker 04

  Okay, fine. Well, we'll talk about the t-shirt I'm wearing, right? This is a colorer. Who makes it? A color wear?

• 1:02:43Speaker 01

  It's a comfort colors.

• 1:02:44Speaker 04

  Comfort colors, right.

• 1:02:45Speaker 05

  From shop dot mkbch dot.

• 1:02:47Speaker 04

  It's a gorgeous shirt. I love this shirt.

• 1:02:49Speaker 05

  You look really good in it.

• 1:02:50Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 1:02:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's incredible.

• 1:02:51Speaker 04

  This shirt is not sized like other shirts. If you were to hold it up with another, another t-shirt of this, I forget if this is a larger and extra large.

• 1:02:59Speaker 05

  You know what would solve that? AI Google fit?

• 1:03:02Speaker 04

  It wouldn't because, because there's no.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  Google fit? They could bring it back.

• 1:03:06Speaker 04

  Oh my, oh my God, Google. I don't know. There's, there's too many seams. There's too many, there's too many measurement points. You need to see how, how the clothes like drape over your body. You need to know the length of all the stitches. I'm not saying it's impossible for an AI to have all these data points, but I'm saying knowing these tech companies, they're not going to get the data point of every article of clothing that's ever made and know all your measurements.

• 1:03:26Speaker 01

  Here's a question.

• 1:03:26Speaker 04

  They're going to hallucinate it all.

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  Here's a question. Right now, when you buy a shirt like this, it shows you just like the shirt with no body.

• 1:03:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  And maybe a couple of pictures of it with people. Is this better than that? It's somewhere in between, like the perfect thing of trying on the shirt in a mirror, that's a hundred percent. The zero percent is just a render of the shirt with no body. Somewhere in between is it's going to try to estimate how this will fit on you. And hopefully it gets it not terribly wrong. That's like somewhere in between.

• 1:03:56Speaker 04

  I guess, you know, to that, I would just say that like for me personally, like it most online clothing has a model in the picture. It'll say something like the model is six, one and wearing this size.

• 1:04:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:07Speaker 04

  And you can usually extrapolate like, oh, this is, and given I'm still really bad at that. I order tons of stuff that I'm like, this technically fits, but makes me look like a cereal box or this technically fits. And makes me look like a penguin, you know, it's so like, yeah, like, like, for example, I got, you know, big, long, gangly arms. I gotta have something with a slightly longer sleeve, you know, otherwise I.

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  Need a thing that is good.

• 1:04:29Speaker 04

  That maybe. I don't know. I'm not, I don't have faith, but we should stop talking about.

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  Well, okay, last note, I will say like, I've never, again, never bought anything off Instagram ads, but I might next week. But I almost bought this sweater one time. There was like a big kind of holiday sweater and had a big cat face on it. And it was very cute and looked very warm. And then I looked at the, the reviews and it was like, this is the worst fitting thing, the cheapest like material. So like my.

• 1:04:56David Imel?

  My concern about it is like, you don't know how good the material is, and that's a big thing.

• 1:05:01Speaker 04

  I mean.

• 1:05:01David Imel?

  For sure.

• 1:05:02Speaker 04

  And you also don't know the manufacturing, like, there's so many different ways you can make a T-shirt. There's so many different machines that can make a T-shirt, and they all make a different quality shirt.

• 1:05:10Speaker 01

  But this is also for clothes you already own.

• 1:05:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, you're right, you're right.

• 1:05:13David Imel?

  Well, yeah, we're talking about the, we're talking about the inevitable future where they go.

• 1:05:18Speaker 01

  Well, that they already announced like last year, didn't they, the AI shopping try on?

• 1:05:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm mad.

• 1:05:22David Imel?

  With like a few supported.

• 1:05:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, really, really, I got us off the rails by being like, I know this new thing is coming out is fine, but that thing from last year I'm still mad about is okay.

• 1:05:30David Imel?

  Well, one of the big stories of today, OpenAI is reportedly working on an AI smartphone to compete with the iPhone.

• 1:05:36Speaker 04

  Okay, I have one question about this.

• 1:05:38David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:39Speaker 04

  This is different than the Sam Altman Johnny I.

• 1:05:42David Imel?

  I think they pivoted.

• 1:05:44Speaker 04

  So they're not making hardware anymore?

• 1:05:45David Imel?

  We don't know.

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  This, I would say, probably again falls in the same category as a lot of the Apple stuff we were talking about earlier, which is reportedly working on means, yeah, they're, of course.

• 1:05:54David Imel?

  Well, apparently, there's, there's already, so, supply chain analyst Min Qingqiu posted a blog on Twitter about this, saying they're already working on it. They're in late-stage talks with Qualcomm and MediaTek to build bespoke processors for it. And they're co-designing the phone with Luxshare, which is a major Chinese components manufacturer. So it's like, it's in the late stage, and I believe they said it might be releasing around the end of 2027. Which is pretty late stage.

• 1:06:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:06:23David Imel?

  So.

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I have no doubt that a lot of people are really interested in what this could be.

• 1:06:28David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  The other thing is, like, all of the current smartphone makers are doing their best to add tons of AI features to their phones. So is there anything that we think OpenAI could do in their smartphone that would give them an advantage that others, like, Google makes phones?

• 1:06:44David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:44Speaker 01

  Apple makes phones, like, that, that they couldn't do?

• 1:06:47David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:47Speaker 01

  Or is it just gonna get hyped because it's OpenAI?

• 1:06:49David Imel?

  The main thing that I'm thinking about is like, if they build their chipsets and their phones specifically to be more optimized for things like continuous contextual processing, right? Like, if it's always listening or something like that.

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  In a way that like, Google wouldn't.

• 1:07:06David Imel?

  With Tensor and Gemini? Google. They're gonna try that. Google could with Tensor on the Pixel later, but they would have to start doing that now, which maybe they already did. Apple would never really do that, I don't think.

• 1:07:18Speaker 01

  I just feel like this makes a lot of sense for OpenAI and not a lot of sense for the customer that's gonna be using it. Because I already have a phone. Just because Apple doesn't let OpenAI do certain things on the phone, like that's not my problem.

• 1:07:28David Imel?

  They said it's to compete with the iPhone, so it's gonna be.

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  Of course it is, because they want to be able to do things that Apple won't let them do.

• 1:07:33David Imel?

  Exactly. It's the direct competitor to the iPhone because Apple will never let OpenAI do all the things that they want to do on the iPhone. Yeah. So OpenAI makes their own hardware, people who are willing and want all that context and all this stuff in their account to work best on a phone will prefer it, I guess, over the iPhone because of all that stuff. And hopefully it also does all the stuff Apple does well. I mean, the crazy thing is that apps would not, like, there's not gonna be app developers. Yeah, there's so many other things that come with making a smartphone that you have to get good at so fast, like developers, cameras. Yeah, I suppose, unless you believe the kind of pie in the sky idea that Sam Altman keeps talking about where apps don't need to exist anymore because you can just ask it to do things and it will just do everything. And we're so far from that world. I get that that's what people are trying to do. That's like 2050.

• 1:08:18David Imel?

  But that's, we are far from that world. Apps are really good right now. Yeah. And like, being able to rely on services and have specifically, have trust that the thing that you do is gonna act the same way every time. Those, those are important. And I don't, I just don't think that asking your phone to do, do something and having like a 70 to 80% chance that it actually does it, I don't know if people are gonna be down with that. Also, like Maps data, like Google Maps, like how would that, like, go to an API or something?

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  Asking for the weather. There's so many good weather.

• 1:08:50David Imel?

  Oh god, it's just gonna hallucinate the weather.

• 1:08:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, there's, there's things that phones do incredibly well. You know what this reminds me of? That video we did about the Neo robot.

• 1:08:58David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  Where, okay, if you believe in this future, like you really think that there's a world where this future product knows enough about you and has enough training data that it can actually be useful.

• 1:09:09David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  Then you have to launch a version of it before it's ready, before it has enough data, and before it's even good at anything. To have early adopters start to help you make it better and train it. And then by version three, four, or five, it could get there.

• 1:09:22David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:22Speaker 01

  But the only way you could get there is if you start now with this probably inferior product.

• 1:09:26David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  So we're gonna get maybe an OpenAI smartphone in 2027 that probably has a way worse camera than the iPhone and a way worse AppStar than the iPhone and a way worse bunch of other things than the iPhone.

• 1:09:35David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:36Speaker 01

  But it'll do the beginnings of this cool thing well. And people who are believers in that five years down the road mission, they're gonna get one and sign up for all this stuff and beta test and they're off to the races.

• 1:09:48David Imel?

  Yeah, I think OpenAI is putting a lot of eggs in a basket. They need money so bad and I think they're looking at Apple and being like, the amount of money Apple makes on the iPhone is so astronomical that this could solve all of our problems and all of our commitments that we've made for trillions of dollars. And I just, I think that they're just.

• 1:10:06Speaker 01

  But what's the operating system on it?

• 1:10:08David Imel?

  Well, this is the question, like, does it run Android? Or are they gonna create a bespoke operating system? That's the other question.

• 1:10:17Speaker 04

  I just feel like OpenAI is a complete nonsense company at this point. Like, like, we're burning through cash at a record rate. We need cash flow. Let's start a hardware stack.

• 1:10:29David Imel?

  I know.

• 1:10:30Speaker 04

  In something that we have no experience, like, that doesn't make any business sense whatsoever.

• 1:10:34Speaker 01

  That's the scale you need to compete at when you owe the amount of money they have. The only way they're gonna get that amount of money to pay back everyone that invested in them is to compete with the iPhone.

• 1:10:42Speaker 04

  No, no, no, well.

• 1:10:43Speaker 01

  Like, that's crazy.

• 1:10:45Speaker 04

  Really?

• 1:10:45Speaker 01

  That's like, that's the scale they need to win.

• 1:10:47David Imel?

  I think so, dude. Their commitments are insane.

• 1:10:50Speaker 04

  That's, but.

• 1:10:50David Imel?

  You remember the guy that asked him, like, how exactly are you going to make this money? And Sam Elman just goes, we'll buy out your shares from you, bro. We'll buy your shares back from you.

• 1:10:59Speaker 04

  But it's just, to me, it just feels like if, if you have invested, you know, billions of dollars into something, you're now billions of dollars in debt. And your idea for how do we get out of debt is to start a new chain of investments? Because none of the other money we spent will make us money.

• 1:11:17David Imel?

  That's called a gambling addiction. That's what that's called.

• 1:11:20Speaker 04

  That's called complete nonsense.

• 1:11:21Speaker 03

  When I think of an OpenAI phone, I think of like the crypto phone, the, is it Solana? iPhones.

• 1:11:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:26David Imel?

  A saga.

• 1:11:27Speaker 03

  They're all, they're, they might be real, but like,

• 1:11:30David Imel?

  airtime.

• 1:11:30Speaker 03

  No one has them. There's no market for them. Who is this for? And why are you wasting your money making this?

• 1:11:36Speaker 01

  Because somewhere out there, there's a bunch of early adopters who.

• 1:11:40David Imel?

  The entirety of San Francisco.

• 1:11:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, really, actually really want it. And it sounds ridiculous from the outside looking in, but there are a lot of people who are, yeah, going all in with like, oh, I've changed my life with these products and I've optimized everything and I've started new businesses with it. And of course I would buy an open AI phone and that's the world they live in. And so this is starting with that demographic of the very beginning of the, what is this curve called? The, the whole adoption curve where the, the very beginning of it, that's those people.

• 1:12:08David Imel?

  Is it people who want the product or people who want to make a lot of money?

• 1:12:11Speaker 01

  Uh, I think they're one in the same. I think that when you, when you talk to Tesla people on Twitter, you get the sense that it's, it's one large mob. I think that's kind of the same thing here.

• 1:12:18David Imel?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:12:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:20David Imel?

  Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's, it's going to be interesting to see if people really trust the company enough to have a phone that does all of the things with all the context. I just.

• 1:12:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:30David Imel?

  Yeah. The, the, the general sentiment on AI is really bad. Uh, I think Neil, I put out an article recently called, "The, the people do not yearn for automation." And it's, it's true. It's just like, the general sentiment of AI is very, very, very negative. And the people who are making the AI stuff in San Francisco just don't see that because everyone around them, like there was a tweet recently.

• 1:12:50Speaker 01

  What do you call that? When you're in a small group where everyone.

• 1:12:53David Imel?

  Echo chamber.

• 1:12:54Speaker 01

  No, even better because it could pop.

• 1:12:57David Imel?

  An echo bubble?

• 1:13:00Speaker 01

  It's an echo bubble.

• 1:13:00David Imel?

  It's an echo bubble. Um, anyway, yeah, who knows, dude? It's going to be interesting. It's going to be a crazy few years.

• 1:13:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:06David Imel?

  I think that we should do another trivia question ad break and, um, but first before that, we should do the trivia question before the ad break.

• 1:13:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:13:15David Imel?

  Hit the music.

• 1:13:16Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 1:13:16David Imel?

  Trivia time. I'm ready.

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  You know what it is?

• 1:13:19David Imel?

  You know what it is? What is? Black and yellow.

• 1:13:24Speaker 01

  I'm actually shocked that.

• 1:13:26David Imel?

  High school.

• 1:13:27Speaker 01

  True.

• 1:13:28David Imel?

  Fair enough.

• 1:13:29Speaker 01

  Touche.

• 1:13:30David Imel?

  Or middle, actually that was middle school. That was middle school.

• 1:13:33Speaker 03

  The song?

• 1:13:34Speaker 01

  Black and Yellow?

• 1:13:35David Imel?

  Black and Yellow, Black and Yellow.

• 1:13:36Speaker 01

  Was that really?

• 1:13:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:37David Imel?

  Why are you shocked that I know that?

• 1:13:38Speaker 01

  I thought that was later than that.

• 1:13:40Speaker 03

  Old.

• 1:13:41David Imel?

  Black and Yellow song. Oh, it's actually called Black and Yellow.

• 1:13:44Speaker 03

  Like 2012?

• 1:13:44David Imel?

  2010.

• 1:13:45Speaker 04

  What do you think the song was called?

• 1:13:47Speaker 01

  That's where I was, yeah, that's where I was.

• 1:13:48David Imel?

  I don't know.

• 1:13:49Speaker 03

  They kind of say it a lot.

• 1:13:50David Imel?

  What are they talking about? Bumblebees or some ****? What are they talking about? Pittsburgh?

• 1:13:54Speaker 01

  Pittsburgh.

• 1:13:55Speaker 04

  Oh, really?

• 1:13:56David Imel?

  Why is Pittsburgh black and yellow?

• 1:13:57Speaker 03

  The Steelers, bro.

• 1:13:58Speaker 04

  Mariah, Mariah, whoa!

• 1:14:01Speaker 03

  I wasn't born yesterday.

• 1:14:01Speaker 01

  You know ball?

• 1:14:02Speaker 04

  Oh, my gosh!

• 1:14:03Speaker 01

  This is a ball podcast.

• 1:14:04David Imel?

  I thought the Steelers were, were, um...

• 1:14:07Speaker 01

  Ball.

• 1:14:08David Imel?

  Football.

• 1:14:08Speaker 01

  Ball.

• 1:14:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's a ball. It's a blog.

• 1:14:10David Imel?

  I thought ball only referred to basketball.

• 1:14:12Speaker 01

  No, ball's ball.

• 1:14:13David Imel?

  Balls?

• 1:14:13Speaker 01

  So when you say you know ball?

• 1:14:14David Imel?

  So when you say you know ball, it just means you know sports?

• 1:14:17Speaker 01

  It just means you know ball.

• 1:14:18Speaker 03

  Means you're not **** stupid.

• 1:14:19Speaker 04

  David, you know ball about tech.

• 1:14:21Speaker 01

  You know ball.

• 1:14:22David Imel?

  I know ball.

• 1:14:22Speaker 03

  You guys want to hear trivia?

• 1:14:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:23David Imel?

  Yeah. Is it about ball?

• 1:14:25Speaker 03

  Uh, my trivia question for you this week, um, is about a little historical question. So this week in history, on April 28th of 2003, Apple launched the iTunes Music Store, which tightly integrated with the iPod and new model of paid digital downloads. My question for you is, what was the name of Apple's proprietary DRM system that enforced playback restrictions on the songs purchased from the store?

• 1:14:53Speaker 04

  Oh, I didn't even know there was DRM.

• 1:14:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:14:56Speaker 04

  Because I'm...

• 1:14:57Speaker 01

  It was a name.

• 1:14:58Speaker 03

  It has a name.

• 1:14:58Speaker 04

  Because I've, I've, I've, I've ripped a lot of...

• 1:15:02Speaker 01

  Careful, Alice, careful! No, but you can rip an MP4 or whatever, but if you buy...

• 1:15:06Speaker 04

  Careful, my guest! Yeah, no, I...

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

  That file...

• 1:15:09Speaker 04

  Careful, my guest! No, I have...

• 1:15:11Speaker 03

  This is in 2003, so I think...

• 1:15:12Speaker 04

  I have my entire iPod Classics M4As on this computer.

• 1:15:15Speaker 03

  I think it changed over time. I could be wrong.

• 1:15:17Speaker 04

  Also, I, yeah, I don't think they really care anymore. Apple DRM. What would, if I was Apple, what would I call my digital rights management software? I'd call it, I'd call it.

• 1:15:30Speaker 01

  EyeLock.

• 1:15:31Speaker 04

  Destam.

• 1:15:32Speaker 01

  Something.

• 1:15:33Speaker 04

  Oh, my gosh, that's hilarious. You know EyeLock is a real thing, right?

• 1:15:35Speaker 01

  No, is it? Is it a digital rights management?

• 1:15:39Speaker 04

  No, it is, it is.

• 1:15:40Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:15:41Speaker 04

  You, you bought me one.

• 1:15:43Speaker 03

  Huh?

• 1:15:44Speaker 04

  That's my EyeLock.

• 1:15:45Speaker 03

  Dude.

• 1:15:45Speaker 01

  This one?

• 1:15:46Speaker 03

  What is that?

• 1:15:47Speaker 01

  Is this for passwords?

• 1:15:48Speaker 04

  Uh, no, it's for a lot of audio software will not run unless that's plugged into my computer.

• 1:15:54Speaker 01

  Oh, same idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:55Speaker 04

  Why? So I don't steal it.

• 1:15:56Speaker 01

  So you're definitely a DRM user who bought it.

• 1:15:59Speaker 04

  It's.

• 1:16:00Speaker 01

  Audio software makes you have a DRM hardware key? It's more of like a.

• 1:16:04Speaker 04

  That's crazy. No.

• 1:16:06Speaker 01

  Two-factor authentication.

• 1:16:07Speaker 04

  Audio?

• 1:16:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:16:08Speaker 01

  Okay. We will think about what that DRM might have been called. Answers at the end. BRB.

• 1:16:23Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from JIRA by Atlassian. So AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from, but when that context is scattered across tools like threads and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying kind of blind. That's the problem JIRA solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all of these pieces together from JIRA, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more, so nothing falls through the cracks. With JIRA, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot, assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided

• 1:17:03Speaker 01

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• 1:17:11Speaker 07

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• 1:17:40Speaker 03

  Are you tired of hearing about business, tech and finance from the bros? We are the Tiger Sisters, a top business podcast with the Vox Media Podcast Network. Tiger Sisters releases every Monday and we decode money, power and love. And who doesn't love all those things? We are the internet's Wall Street and Silicon Valley big sisters.

• 1:17:59Speaker 06

  Tune in every Monday for late night sister talk meets boardroom strategy. Check out Tiger Sisters on YouTube, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:18:08Speaker 03

  Welcome to the Tiger fam.

• 1:18:10David Imel?

  All right, welcome back. We got a new feature that we're going to use the hell out of for tech events.

• 1:18:17Speaker 01

  And what is that?

• 1:18:18David Imel?

  Threads is introducing live chats.

• 1:18:20Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:18:21David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:22Speaker 01

  Sick.

• 1:18:23David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:23Speaker 01

  Explain how it works because I know what a thread is.

• 1:18:26David Imel?

  Correct.

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  How are we going to do live chats that are even more live than what's already happening on threads?

• 1:18:30David Imel?

  Yeah, so Threads notoriously has been really, really, really, really horrible for live events because it just sends you, it just shows you threads from like four days ago. But during big events like NBA games, there will be big group chats that are spearheaded by influential community members.

• 1:18:46Speaker 01

  So it's like.

• 1:18:48David Imel?

  I think anyone can maybe start them.

• 1:18:49Speaker 01

  I'm not sure. I love this.

• 1:18:50Speaker 04

  It sounds like it's sort of like Discord meets the Twitter spaces.

• 1:18:55David Imel?

  Kind of. Sort of, yeah. So you can limit how many people can contribute, but people can still react and vote in the polls if they are not contributing. And the chats are openly discoverable, so you can go into the section of like the live event chats and you can just see what people are talking about, which I think is really cool. I'm curious how many sort of different limits it'll have, like maybe we can have a studio chat that everyone could sort of react to, but maybe not chat in.

• 1:19:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:24David Imel?

  So they can, it's like a live blog. It's like Verge does the live blogs for like big tech events. I think it'd be really cool if we could do our own live blog but on threads.

• 1:19:31Speaker 01

  I think that's exactly what this is because every time there's a live event, we pretty much just take over people's feeds. So this is a way to like contain.

• 1:19:38David Imel?

  Silo it.

• 1:19:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:39David Imel?

  Well, and also make it so you can see all of it in one place instead of the way Threads normally works, which is terrible.

• 1:19:44Speaker 01

  So I guess I'm picturing this as like there's an event happening, only certain people can contribute. But I guess it's open to anyone who can view.

• 1:19:52David Imel?

  You can also make it so more people can like contribute, like it can be open to the community or just contained to certain people.

• 1:19:58Speaker 01

  So an event is happening, six of us are in the thread live, whatever it's called, live thread, posting about things from different angles, media, text posts or whatever. And then it's all in one place and people can jump in and jump out.

• 1:20:11David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:12Speaker 05

  It's our Slack, but for everyone to read.

• 1:20:13David Imel?

  Yeah, which I think is sick.

• 1:20:15Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 1:20:15David Imel?

  Look, I'm pretty excited about that. I think it is gonna be cool for the events.

• 1:20:20Speaker 04

  It'd be cool if you could also have like ping, pin certain threads accounts and then their actual thread posts appear. Like, like if you were doing a tech event, you could add like a bunch of other tech journalists and every time one of them posts an update, it shows up in this like scrolling feed.

• 1:20:37Speaker 01

  You'd have to assume that they're posting about that event, I guess.

• 1:20:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, you would have that.

• 1:20:41Speaker 01

  Cause it's like, it seems like it's the place that you're going to post.

• 1:20:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, right, right.

• 1:20:44Speaker 01

  Like jumping in, posting or viewing and then leaving when you want to and coming back.

• 1:20:48Speaker 05

  I mean, I think you can do that though, if you just invite them and they accept.

• 1:20:51Speaker 04

  Sure, yeah.

• 1:20:52Speaker 05

  You know?

• 1:20:52Speaker 04

  Well, I guess I was thinking like that David showed me this cool app called Surf.

• 1:20:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, the Fediverse browser.

• 1:20:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, like I guess in my head it was sort of a comp like.

• 1:21:01Speaker 01

  It's a Russian Fediverse corner.

• 1:21:03David Imel?

  This is the Fediverse, we're bringing it back. It's the Russian nesting doll of the Fediverse, basically.

• 1:21:09Speaker 04

  I was gonna say, I think this is the feature that might convince me to get on threads, maybe. Cause like.

• 1:21:15Speaker 01

  I'm seven.

• 1:21:16Speaker 04

  Lately, well, exactly, because I've been really enjoying using social media as of late for specific things. Like, for example, like I took Twitter off my phone. It was like rotting my brain. Now that the Sixers are in the playoffs, I want to be a part of Sixers Twitter. So I got it back. I convinced my feed to literally only show me Sixers posts by only interacting with Sixers posts.

• 1:21:35Speaker 01

  You can train it real quick.

• 1:21:36Speaker 04

  And then, and then when the Sixers, when the Sixers win the NBA championship in June, I'm gonna delete Twitter off my phone again. And who, get out of here, bro.

• 1:21:47Speaker 01

  It's the guy wearing the Knicks hat.

• 1:21:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, of course, it's the guy wearing the Knicks hat.

• 1:21:51David Imel?

  Serv would be really good for that for you, to be honest. Because there was a huge migration from Twitter to Threads, specifically from NBA people.

• 1:21:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, NBA on Blue Sky and Threads is like a thing.

• 1:22:01David Imel?

  Is it really? Yeah, it's really popping on Threads.

• 1:22:03Speaker 04

  But NBA Twitter is so good.

• 1:22:05Speaker 05

  NBA Twitter has all the chaos and the dark memes, but the professionals are on Blue Sky and Threads.

• 1:22:11Speaker 01

  Interesting. Yeah, do you want, do you want the professional takes? Do you want to see like what Shams and those guys or like the journalists are saying? Or do you want the deepest, darkest memes from other Sixers fans?

• 1:22:22Speaker 04

  My, my favorite, my favorite basketball journalist is Adam Aronson, who's on Twitter. But I think he's also on Blue Sky.

• 1:22:29David Imel?

  So, yeah, well, an event that maybe we'll be able to use this, if it goes live by then, is the Android show, which is happening again this year on May 12th. Last year, they showed, they introduced expressive design, material. Yeah, it was a seg, yeah.

• 1:22:45Speaker 01

  That was a good segue.

• 1:22:45David Imel?

  Thanks, I appreciate it. Yeah. Last year, they had the Material Expressive Design. They had Gemini Live that they showed off, which is crazy that it's only been out for a year, which is crazy. Gemini Cross Devices. They also had a device showcase where Dieter just kind of like walked around and showed all the different four vectors of Android.

• 1:23:03Speaker 05

  Check this out.

• 1:23:04David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:06David Imel?

  So we have no idea what they're going to show this year. However, they did say it was going to be one of the biggest weeks for Android ever.

• 1:23:15Speaker 01

  One of the biggest weeks for Android.

• 1:23:16Speaker 03

  Huge for Android users.

• 1:23:18David Imel?

  This is big for, big for my fellows out there.

• 1:23:21Speaker 05

  Is this where Pixel Glow gets announced?

• 1:23:23David Imel?

  I doubt it.

• 1:23:24Speaker 05

  I like the new look.

• 1:23:26David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:26Speaker 05

  I like these new icons.

• 1:23:28David Imel?

  Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, that's another segue.

• 1:23:31Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:23:33David Imel?

  Google this week did like a massive gradient redesign of all its icons. Because Gemini, you know, they've been slowly like changing everything to be gradients instead of like hard cuts. And now they redesigned almost all of their apps to have sort of the Gemini gradient designs. And I think they look really, really good.

• 1:23:52Speaker 05

  I can, they're beautiful because the previous icons all had the same like Google colors.

• 1:23:58David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:58Speaker 05

  And I could not tell them apart. They were so similar.

• 1:24:01David Imel?

  It was so, do you remember?

• 1:24:02Speaker 01

  It's getting tough. Google Drive next to Google Maps in the dock, they just look like the same thing.

• 1:24:06Speaker 05

  Next to photos?

• 1:24:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:08David Imel?

  Look at Google Talk. Google Talk and Google, yeah.

• 1:24:11Speaker 01

  Gmail and Google, it was just a bunch of blocks of color.

• 1:24:13David Imel?

  It was so bad.

• 1:24:14Speaker 04

  Okay, but to be fair, those are also the same app.

• 1:24:16David Imel?

  Well, they, they used to be the same app and then they separated them.

• 1:24:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, but if you're in Google Messages and then you try to video call someone.

• 1:24:23Speaker 01

  That's not Google Messages.

• 1:24:24Speaker 04

  What is that?

• 1:24:25Speaker 01

  That's Google Chat.

• 1:24:26Speaker 04

  What is Google Chat?

• 1:24:26Speaker 01

  Or Google Talk. I don't know.

• 1:24:28Speaker 03

  What is it?

• 1:24:28Speaker 04

  How is that Google Talk?

• 1:24:29Speaker 01

  We're simulating a conversation that they have inside their own can.

• 1:24:31David Imel?

  What is that?

• 1:24:33Speaker 01

  What is that?

• 1:24:33Speaker 04

  Wait, what is Google Talk?

• 1:24:34Speaker 01

  How is that different from what I made? We made that. You made that?

• 1:24:38Speaker 04

  Is that the phone one? Is that the one where you got a phone number?

• 1:24:40David Imel?

  No, that's, that's Google Voice.

• 1:24:42Speaker 01

  Voice, yeah.

• 1:24:43Speaker 04

  Okay, which is different than Google Talk.

• 1:24:45Speaker 03

  Why is there not just one?

• 1:24:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:24:48Speaker 01

  We've, this is, this is the last 15 years of Google.

• 1:24:52David Imel?

  Death, taxes, Google messaging apps. That's, yeah.

• 1:24:56Speaker 04

  That's not Google Talk.

• 1:24:57David Imel?

  All down that hill.

• 1:24:58Speaker 01

  Anyway, they're a little more distinguishable now.

• 1:24:59David Imel?

  I don't know what that is, bro. I don't f***ing know anymore.

• 1:25:02Speaker 05

  I still use.

• 1:25:02David Imel?

  I'm out of it.

• 1:25:03Speaker 05

  Yeah, in Gmail, I believe Google Chat is what they think of as like their Slack competitor.

• 1:25:08Speaker 01

  It's like IM, like.

• 1:25:09David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, like Teams or something.

• 1:25:11David Imel?

  Google Chat. Yeah, it's like Teams.

• 1:25:14Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:25:14Speaker 03

  They used to have a chat thing in the email. Did they just like fully remove it?

• 1:25:18David Imel?

  It's still in there.

• 1:25:18Speaker 05

  That was it, yeah.

• 1:25:20David Imel?

  It's still in Gmail, but it's also a separate app because they're trying to make it like Microsoft Teams. They've also got Google Voice. Yeah, so, you know.

• 1:25:28Speaker 04

  I get it.

• 1:25:28David Imel?

  But, but.

• 1:25:29Speaker 05

  Moral of the story, icons are better now.

• 1:25:31David Imel?

  I just gotta say, Google Keep also got a, a, you know, icon update, which means they did remember it exists.

• 1:25:38Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 1:25:38Speaker 03

  I thought they were gonna kill it. I'm kinda happy it's still here.

• 1:25:40Speaker 04

  No, they're gonna keep it.

• 1:25:41Speaker 05

  It was on the chopping.

• 1:25:42David Imel?

  Ayo, baby.

• 1:25:44Speaker 01

  We all thought it was on the chopping block because they updated tasks, right? Or they were going to update tasks.

• 1:25:49David Imel?

  Well, and they also updated the task icon.

• 1:25:50Speaker 01

  Yes, they did.

• 1:25:51David Imel?

  It's beautiful.

• 1:25:52Speaker 01

  So both people did something.

• 1:25:54David Imel?

  And Google Sites also is.

• 1:25:56Speaker 04

  What is Google Sites?

• 1:25:57David Imel?

  It's a web development like platform. It's like, it's like baby Squarespace.

• 1:26:02Speaker 01

  They're gonna start.

• 1:26:02David Imel?

  You don't need any of the s***ing markets, you can just vibe code it now, so.

• 1:26:05Speaker 04

  Yup.

• 1:26:06David Imel?

  I don't really, their, Google Sites is for sure on the chopping block. I feel like they were like, hey Gemini, create an app icon for that one, because we're probably gonna get rid of it soon. Anyway, that's pretty fun. I think, well, this has been a long podcast. So I think that we should just, uh, actually, let's do one more really quick story. Uh, YouTube TV is now letting you do multi-view layouts.

• 1:26:27Speaker 01

  I like it. So I'll be able to watch, mostly watch the Knicks series and then like in a little separate view, I'll be able to be like, how much are the Sixers losing by?

• 1:26:35Speaker 04

  Oh, come on, brother.

• 1:26:36Speaker 01

  Back to check.

• 1:26:37Speaker 04

  We, look, oh my.

• 1:26:39Speaker 05

  20 points to Marquez.

• 1:26:40Speaker 04

  You do realize that we, we had, well, it was the, it was the largest fourth quarter comeback in NBA playoff history.

• 1:26:47Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:26:47Speaker 04

  Last game.

• 1:26:47Speaker 01

  Alright, that's props.

• 1:26:48Speaker 04

  I, I need to, I need to make sure I get that, uh.

• 1:26:51Speaker 01

  Like a 20, I assume that's a pretty big comeback.

• 1:26:54Speaker 05

  I will just say to Ellis's point, this week, I am a Sixers fan.

• 1:26:58Speaker 04

  No, that's.

• 1:26:59Speaker 01

  Guys, we can't talk about basket, like, guys, we gotta stop talking about the basketball.

• 1:27:02Speaker 04

  I gotta say, you and Alex are really pissing me off with that, with that stuff.

• 1:27:05Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:27:05Speaker 04

  Because the only reason that you're saying that is because you think we're a bad team you could beat in the second round.

• 1:27:10Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 1:27:10Speaker 01

  You have to make a tech analogy to keep.

• 1:27:12David Imel?

  I would not have added this last story if I knew we were going to talk about basketball again.

• 1:27:17Speaker 01

  We have to make a tech analogy to talk about ball. So if you want to talk, you can talk tech all you want, but if you're going to talk ball, how about you have like a tech angle?

• 1:27:24Speaker 04

  Here, here, the Sixers, the Sixers are like, are like Blue Sky.

• 1:27:29Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:27:31David Imel?

  Okay, I'm gonna hear the sound. Tell me.

• 1:27:32Speaker 05

  I'm listening.

• 1:27:33David Imel?

  Okay. I'm telling.

• 1:27:34Speaker 04

  Blue Sky, super fun to look at.

• 1:27:36Speaker 01

  Fediverse this?

• 1:27:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, su- super fun to look at.

• 1:27:38Speaker 01

  Fediverse this.

• 1:27:39Speaker 04

  Tons of crazy promises. They're like, give us time. It's never gonna actually be good.

• 1:27:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:27:46Speaker 04

  Okay. But you know what? We're all here for the ride.

• 1:27:50Speaker 01

  That's valid.

• 1:27:50Speaker 05

  You know, I'm on board. I'm with you.

• 1:27:52Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 1:27:53Speaker 01

  That was good.

• 1:27:53David Imel?

  Well.

• 1:27:54Speaker 01

  One of our best studio shorts is making tech analogies and I think we should keep doing them.

• 1:27:57Speaker 04

  I like it. Yeah. Also, I, I think that's a bad analogy. Also, I like Blue Sky. I'm just, I'm just mad because everyone here hates my freaking basketball team and my, my.

• 1:28:06Speaker 01

  I think David relates very much.

• 1:28:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:28:08David Imel?

  About hating his team?

• 1:28:09Speaker 01

  No, about like the frustration of Blue Sky never gonna be actually a thing, but there's so many good ideas under the surface that people will never see because they never give it a chance.

• 1:28:16David Imel?

  When I went, yeah.

• 1:28:17Speaker 04

  Dude, trust the process.

• 1:28:19David Imel?

  Dude, the protocol is so good. The protocol is amazing. And when I went to.

• 1:28:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:28:23David Imel?

  Yeah. What are you doing?

• 1:28:26Speaker 05

  It's working.

• 1:28:27David Imel?

  Am I missing something?

• 1:28:27Speaker 05

  It's working.

• 1:28:28David Imel?

  And when I went to AtmosphereConf, like, there were so many people making really, really, really awesome things.

• 1:28:33Speaker 01

  Dude, if you had a Boost guy hat on right now, this would be the perfect analogy.

• 1:28:36Speaker 04

  This would be amazing. Yeah, exactly. We have, hey, Paul.

• 1:28:39David Imel?

  Paul, if you're hearing this, if you guys make hats, send one my way so that I can compete with Ellis's Sixers hat.

• 1:28:47Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:28:48Speaker 05

  Well, a hilarious little segment, because it worked perfectly. Baby, you don't know, but that was a perfect analogy.

• 1:28:53Speaker 01

  It was actually great.

• 1:28:53David Imel?

  AI was the answer. Joel Embiid is the process. And now we got Vijay, the protocol.

• 1:28:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:29:00David Imel?

  I don't.

• 1:29:01Speaker 01

  It's not what they call it.

• 1:29:02David Imel?

  All right.

• 1:29:02Speaker 01

  The last thing I want to say about this YouTube TV thing doing multi-view layout, and I'm stealing this directly from Mariah, where she said this in Slack, just do it with YouTube, you cowards.

• 1:29:11Speaker 05

  She's here, like her saying.

• 1:29:12Speaker 01

  Oh, wait, actually, um.

• 1:29:14Speaker 04

  You want to watch two YouTube videos at once?

• 1:29:17Speaker 01

  Mariah, say it.

• 1:29:17Speaker 03

  I was silenced.

• 1:29:20Speaker 01

  Mariah, say the word.

• 1:29:20Speaker 03

  I want YouTube stim station. Why can't I play more than one YouTube video?

• 1:29:27Speaker 04

  I can think of like 50.

• 1:29:29Speaker 03

  At the same time? If we can do it with TV, like a bar, how a bar has it, where they have like four games playing at the same time, why can't my house have four YouTube videos happening all on one screen?

• 1:29:38Speaker 04

  What four YouTube videos do you want to watch at the same?

• 1:29:40Speaker 05

  I would love to know.

• 1:29:41Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:29:42Speaker 03

  Minecraft, let's play one corner. Podcast in the other corner.

• 1:29:45David Imel?

  But you have the audio.

• 1:29:47Speaker 01

  Here's something, here's something I recently learned. It's kind of the opposite of what you're asking for, is YouTube knows that people watch a video on their TV, and then they pull out their phone, and they have their phone, and they're actually looking for the next video to watch on their phone.

• 1:30:01David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:02Speaker 01

  And so they're working on better multi-screen experiences, where you're watching a video on your TV, and you can control that video, but you also can like pick the next, queue up the next videos you want to watch on your TV. So you're not watching two videos at once, but it's aware that you are using YouTube in two places at the same time, and making them talk to each other.

• 1:30:20David Imel?

  I also think the reason they want to have multi-view on YouTube TV is so that they can be shown at bars and show off multiple games at the same time.

• 1:30:26Speaker 01

  Twice as many ads.

• 1:30:28David Imel?

  That as well. And they could just lie to their advertisers that people are actually consuming those advertisements.

• 1:30:33Speaker 04

  This is so crazy.

• 1:30:34David Imel?

  But it makes sense for bars. Makes sense for bars.

• 1:30:36Speaker 03

  Yeah. Just let me split screen.

• 1:30:37Speaker 04

  We're, we literally live in a world where it's like, I want to watch this YouTube video, but my attention span doesn't work well enough. So I'm going to put Subway surfers in a separate video below.

• 1:30:46David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:47Speaker 04

  You know, there's like in programming advertising for this in Amazon Prime, right? Like when you watch NBA games, not to bring you back to basketball, I swear it's not about basketball. When you watch, when you watch NBA games on Amazon Prime,

• 1:30:58David Imel?

  I don't believe.

• 1:30:58Speaker 04

  The announcer, like the guy who's calling the plays in the game will say.

• 1:31:02David Imel?

  Reggie Miller?

• 1:31:03Speaker 04

  Yeah. He'll be like, you know, Reggie Miller's ESPN.

• 1:31:05David Imel?

  Stop tributing to this.

• 1:31:07Speaker 04

  No, no. The guy who's like calling plays, he'll be like, and Embiid makes a crazy three. By the way, you can also watch another game by clicking this button on your remote. And it's like, what?

• 1:31:17David Imel?

  That's crazy.

• 1:31:18Speaker 04

  Like, why does the basketball man know about my remote?

• 1:31:22David Imel?

  Yeah, it does happen. Yeah. I did watch, I watched a little bit of the second season of Fallout recently. And during the ads, you can just tap, it's like buy this on Amazon. And so one click thing during the ad where you could just click one button and a product gets shut to your house. And I was like, this is dystopia.

• 1:31:39Speaker 04

  Dude, Amazon Prime video, the most dystopian, when you're like watching a sports game and it's like, here's the betting odds baked into the UI. And you're just like.

• 1:31:47David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:47Speaker 04

  Let's just do the trivia.

• 1:31:48David Imel?

  Let's just do the trivia. It's been a long day.

• 1:31:53David Imel?

  Bring it on, baby.

• 1:31:54Speaker 05

  Trivia, dude. Quick update on the score.

• 1:31:57David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:58Speaker 05

  Marquez with 21. Andrew, who is not here, with 22. David, 26. And Ellis with the zero.

• 1:32:06Speaker 04

  Wait, should my points go towards Andrew?

• 1:32:08David Imel?

  Yeah, I think that would make sense.

• 1:32:10Speaker 04

  I got you.

• 1:32:10Speaker 05

  Does he though?

• 1:32:12Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:32:13Speaker 05

  First question, what does GSM stand for?

• 1:32:19Speaker 01

  You know, I thought I knew it earlier.

• 1:32:20Speaker 05

  How'd you think you knew it?

• 1:32:21Speaker 01

  I actually don't know.

• 1:32:24David Imel?

  I don't know at all.

• 1:32:27David Imel?

  I should know this. I should really know this. I think if you guys use your imagination, you can figure it out.

• 1:32:32Speaker 04

  Do we get one point per correct letter?

• 1:32:34Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:32:35Speaker 01

  That would be crazy. I can't afford to go behind by that many points.

• 1:32:43Speaker 05

  All right, flip them and read. What do you got?

• 1:32:45David Imel?

  I really should know this. This is crazy.

• 1:32:47Speaker 01

  Ellis is way over.

• 1:32:48Speaker 05

  Ellis, you're still writing?

• 1:32:49Speaker 01

  Ellis has read both of our answers and is now writing his own.

• 1:32:52David Imel?

  Crazy.

• 1:32:52Speaker 01

  This is normally a disqualification.

• 1:32:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's fine.

• 1:32:56Speaker 05

  It's for the meme.

• 1:32:58David Imel?

  It's fine.

• 1:32:59Speaker 05

  All right, what you guys got?

• 1:33:00Speaker 01

  I'm guessing. So I wrote some generic terms down. I said, "General Service Module."

• 1:33:06David Imel?

  Ooh, that's good.

• 1:33:06Speaker 05

  Nope, that is good.

• 1:33:07Speaker 01

  I tried.

• 1:33:07David Imel?

  I wrote, "Global, serialized, mobile." Yeah, I don't know.

• 1:33:15Speaker 01

  Close.

• 1:33:16David Imel?

  Really?

• 1:33:16Speaker 01

  Ish.

• 1:33:17David Imel?

  Oh.

• 1:33:17Speaker 01

  Global.

• 1:33:18David Imel?

  Two out of three?

• 1:33:18Speaker 01

  I think global is probably right.

• 1:33:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, global is correct.

• 1:33:20Speaker 04

  I put, "Global, shy Gilgis Alexander."

• 1:33:26Speaker 04

  Mobile.

• 1:33:26Speaker 05

  Correct.

• 1:33:29Speaker 05

  The correct answer was "Global System for Mobile Communications."

• 1:33:32David Imel?

  Oh.

• 1:33:32Speaker 04

  Wait, are you serious? That's what I...

• 1:33:35Speaker 05

  That's what you put first?

• 1:33:36Speaker 04

  That's what I put. And I was like, "Global System Mobile doesn't make any sense." Are you kidding?

• 1:33:41Speaker 05

  That's why I said you had to use your imagination.

• 1:33:42Speaker 04

  Andrew, I'm sorry!

• 1:33:44Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 1:33:44David Imel?

  Are you doing this for Andrew's points?

• 1:33:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:33:46David Imel?

  Oh, that's crazy.

• 1:33:47Speaker 03

  All right, gamers. This week in history, iTunes was launched. What was the name of Apple's proprietary DRM system enforcing playback restriction?

• 1:33:58Speaker 04

  Can we have a hint?

• 1:34:00Speaker 03

  No?

• 1:34:01Speaker 04

  Goddamn.

• 1:34:01Speaker 01

  None of us are gonna get it.

• 1:34:02Speaker 04

  You sound like me.

• 1:34:03David Imel?

  This is a really hard question.

• 1:34:05Speaker 03

  I had a softball question before this. I wanted to go harder.

• 1:34:09Speaker 01

  It's gonna be the same points.

• 1:34:10David Imel?

  We literally never get points on this podcast, so...

• 1:34:13Speaker 03

  I can give you my other one as well if you want it after.

• 1:34:16David Imel?

  I would do that.

• 1:34:17Speaker 05

  That's fair.

• 1:34:21Speaker 03

  I thought you guys were nerds. You should know this.

• 1:34:23David Imel?

  Bro, internal DRM nomenclature? What are you talking about?

• 1:34:28Speaker 04

  I should know this.

• 1:34:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I thought Ellis might know it if I were to guess. I'd put best odds on Ellis, but I'm not gonna get it.

• 1:34:34David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:36David Imel?

  All right, I put, "iTunes Secure Payments."

• 1:34:40Speaker 04

  I put, "He Protect."

• 1:34:42David Imel?

  I put, "No ownership for you."

• 1:34:46Speaker 03

  Oh, you're all so close.

• 1:34:49Speaker 03

  It was called fair play.

• 1:34:51David Imel?

  Oh, like share play and airplay.

• 1:34:53Speaker 01

  They would call it something fair, as if it's fair.

• 1:34:57Speaker 04

  I mean, it's more fair than Spotify.

• 1:34:59David Imel?

  It's more fair than all streaming services.

• 1:35:01Speaker 04

  Can I have the erase?

• 1:35:02David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:02Speaker 04

  Uh, can we do one more question?

• 1:35:03Speaker 03

  You want the honorable?

• 1:35:04David Imel?

  Do the honorable mention.

• 1:35:05Speaker 01

  I would like someone to get one point.

• 1:35:07Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:35:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:08Speaker 03

  All right. You guys should definitely get this one. And if you don't, I don't know.

• 1:35:11David Imel?

  What's the name of Tim Cook's father?

• 1:35:14Speaker 03

  Daddy.

• 1:35:15Speaker 04

  Mr. Cook.

• 1:35:17Speaker 01

  I met someone from Alabama on my recent trip, and I was prepared with the fun fact that Tim Cook is from Alabama.

• 1:35:24David Imel?

  Did you tell them?

• 1:35:25Speaker 01

  Yes, I did.

• 1:35:25David Imel?

  And what'd they say?

• 1:35:26Speaker 03

  Did they like it?

• 1:35:27Speaker 01

  And they were like, oh, I didn't know, because they were from Alabama. They're like, there's not that much, sorry, Arkansas. And they were like, there's not that much stuff from Arkansas. We have this one thing with Walmart and this other thing. And I was like, Tim Cook's from Arkansas.

• 1:35:38Speaker 03

  No, he's from, he's from Alabama.

• 1:35:40Speaker 04

  He's from Alabama.

• 1:35:47Speaker 01

  I guess I didn't retain that information as well as I was hoping.

• 1:35:51Speaker 03

  That was last week.

• 1:35:54Speaker 01

  That is last week, huh?

• 1:35:57Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 1:35:58David Imel?

  It doesn't get better than this, folks. No, do not cut that. It doesn't get better than this. All right. Give us your softball.

• 1:36:06Speaker 01

  We're just gonna Google and be like, he totally thinks Alabama and Arkansas are the same.

• 1:36:10David Imel?

  No, they're just gonna believe you, bro. That's not a thing that I think they want to fact check you.

• 1:36:14Speaker 03

  In the song, they do go Alabama, Arkansas.

• 1:36:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:36:18David Imel?

  It's because they're both A.

• 1:36:19Speaker 01

  They're next to each other.

• 1:36:20David Imel?

  Yeah, they're next to each other. Are they actually next to each other?

• 1:36:22Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 1:36:22David Imel?

  That makes sense, because I don't know where else they'd be.

• 1:36:24Speaker 03

  All right.

• 1:36:25David Imel?

  All right.

• 1:36:25Speaker 03

  Bonus question.

• 1:36:26Speaker 04

  Bonus.

• 1:36:27Speaker 03

  Uh, my question for you is, which year of WWDC introduced dark mode to iOS?

• 1:36:35David Imel?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:36:36Speaker 04

  Is it Price is Right?

• 1:36:37David Imel?

  That's not an easy question.

• 1:36:39Speaker 03

  Come on, you should know this shit.

• 1:36:39Speaker 04

  Is it, what are you, in Delta or Price is Right?

• 1:36:42David Imel?

  Dark mode.

• 1:36:43Speaker 03

  I mean, if you're within like a, no, get it right or don't.

• 1:36:46David Imel?

  What year?

• 1:36:47Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:36:48David Imel?

  What year?

• 1:36:48Speaker 01

  Even remember. I gotta count backwards.

• 1:36:52Speaker 03

  So like, yeah.

• 1:36:54David Imel?

  Wait, dark mode? Oh.

• 1:36:57Speaker 04

  Hurry up.

• 1:37:00Speaker 03

  I thought Mark has a no because he loves dark.

• 1:37:01Speaker 01

  I do, but I didn't.

• 1:37:04Speaker 01

  I have a reason why I have my guess, but I'm not sure it's right.

• 1:37:07Speaker 04

  David's mine is bigger. That means it's more right.

• 1:37:09Speaker 03

  All right, gamers. Ellis, what do you got?

• 1:37:11Speaker 04

  About 2019. Let's go.

• 1:37:15David Imel?

  Is that really right?

• 1:37:15Speaker 01

  I also put a smaller 2019.

• 1:37:18Speaker 03

  David, what'd you put?

• 1:37:21Speaker 01

  I can tell you why I thought it was 2019.

• 1:37:24Speaker 01

  My logic, because I didn't remember.

• 1:37:26David Imel?

  Wait.

• 1:37:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. Was I tried to pick the iPhone that was most likely to ship with dark mode?

• 1:37:30David Imel?

  And she's an iPhone 7. That's what I thought.

• 1:37:32Speaker 01

  The jet black iPhone 8. So I went back. Counted back from 17 to 8, so minus 9.

• 1:37:38Speaker 04

  Whoa.

• 1:37:39David Imel?

  Wow.

• 1:37:40Speaker 04

  So you did the math wrong?

• 1:37:41Speaker 01

  I did the math wrong.

• 1:37:44David Imel?

  It's like the teacher. It's like, you did this wrong, but you somehow ended up with the right answer.

• 1:37:49Speaker 01

  If you said, show your work, I would get it wrong. But I landed on the same number Ellis did, and that's what that's.

• 1:37:54David Imel?

  I was thinking about the dark mode, the automatic dark mode icons, which only happened a few years ago.

• 1:38:00Speaker 01

  That was like two years ago.

• 1:38:03David Imel?

  Yeah, 2023 or 2024.

• 1:38:04Speaker 04

  I was thinking, and I thought, what year did Apple not really release anything at all?

• 1:38:10Speaker 01

  And the dark mode. That's a great.

• 1:38:13David Imel?

  Yes, fair enough.

• 1:38:13Speaker 01

  Hey, we got the right answers.

• 1:38:15David Imel?

  Dang.

• 1:38:15Speaker 01

  I'll take the points. Andrew will take the points.

• 1:38:17David Imel?

  Wait, that was, that was like a fake question, right?

• 1:38:19Speaker 01

  No, we needed.

• 1:38:21Speaker 04

  Andrew? I got you, bro.

• 1:38:23Speaker 01

  Very nice.

• 1:38:24David Imel?

  All right.

• 1:38:25Speaker 01

  Hey, thanks for watching. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks for subscribing, of course, and for sticking to us with the video version so you can see all the hats we're wearing every, every episode. I'm sure next week we'll have.

• 1:38:35David Imel?

  Blue sky hat.

• 1:38:36Speaker 01

  Different hats.

• 1:38:36David Imel?

  Paul.

• 1:38:38Speaker 01

  We will catch you next week with our regularly scheduled programming. See you later.

• 1:38:42David Imel?

  Wave furnace produced by Adam Olean, Ellis Robin, and this week by Mariah Zank. We are part of the Vox Media Podcast Network, and our intro outro music is produced by Vane Sill.

• 1:38:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I don't, I don't think I can name all the planets.

• 1:38:55David Imel?

  Nice.

• 1:39:03Speaker 01

  I wonder how long people are going to, you know how people still think Jeff Bezos is the CEO of Amazon? How long are people still going to think Tim Cook is the CEO of Apple?

• 1:39:10Speaker 03

  Who the f**k is the CEO of Amazon?