Tim Cooked and Now it's John's Ternus!

This week, Marques and David are steering the ship while Andrew is out. So much happened including Tim Cook stepping down as CEO of Apple, Pixel laptop rumors, and Steph Curry kind of leaking the new Fitbit wearable. Of course, we wrap it all up with trivia. It's a fun one! Links: Verge - YouTube turning off Shorts Android Authority - Nothing statement about Warp Apple Newsroom Tim Cook steps down Verge - Huawei Pura X Max 9to5Mac - New iPhone colors rumor 9to5Mac - Pixel laptop and Pixel glow 9to5Google - Nothing deleted AirDrop competitor TechCrunch - Motorola sues creators This episode brought to you by: Framer: https://www.framer.com/waveform Hostinger: https://www.hostinger.com/waveform Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/waveform Follow us on socials: Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin Waveform Threads: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Waveform Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/waveformpodcast/?hl=en Waveform TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Intro/Outro music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Andrew Manganelli?

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, host Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin, Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring your fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting? And what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episodes and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from. But when that context is scattered across tools, threads, and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying blind. That's the problem that Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all these pieces together, from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more. So, nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot, assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  That's J-I-R-A dot com. I was watching a Scale of the Universe video recently.

• 1:24Speaker 02

  Mark Henson.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  That's all I'll say. I wonder what Marquez is doing right now? I could take a guess. I closed my weather app and opened YouTube. Watched Scale of the Universe.

• 1:35Speaker 02

  Left ear, Scale of the Universe video. Right ear, weather podcast.

• 1:42Speaker 01

  Yo, what is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts, I'm Marquez. I'm Andrew. And... Oh, never mind. I'm not. No, you're definitely not Andrew. Yeah, he had another child. Yeah.

• 1:56David Imel?

  Sorry, did I bury the lead there?

• 1:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, just definitely jumped straight to the top story. So yeah, if you're watching on video, you probably already noticed Andrew is not here with us this week. And that's because he is having another baby. And actually, we were in the middle of recording a bonus podcast episode when he got the call that he had to go leave and have that baby.

• 2:16David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  So get subscribed to see that. I don't know how we're gonna cut that into the video, but it's gonna be in there.

• 2:23David Imel?

  I'm currently editing.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  You just like, just bleep, but just like zoom in on Andrew's face like, yeah, yeah, no, I gotta go have a baby now. And he just leaves. It's great. So shout out to him. Baby's healthy. Everything's going super well. But we also have a ton to talk about this week because for, for whatever reason, all of the companies decided to do all the things. And it's not even Wednesday yet.

• 2:41David Imel?

  It's Tuesday. It's crazy.

• 2:42Speaker 01

  We're recording on Tuesday.

• 2:43David Imel?

  I appreciate guys.

• 2:44Speaker 01

  So we gotta talk about Google potentially bringing RGB light bar back to pixel devices, which would be sick.

• 2:49David Imel?

  Yep.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  Motorola suing some influencers in India.

• 2:52David Imel?

  Uh oh.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  It's a story.

• 2:53David Imel?

  That's bad.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  And then Apple new CEO, a couple of things like that. So yeah.

• 2:57David Imel?

  Small stories.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  I think, make sure you get subscribed. Make sure you're rating us highly, or however you think of us, on your podcast player of choice. Because that does a lot for us and helps us get the news out and talk about stuff to a bigger audience. So.

• 3:11David Imel?

  We can be big in your country.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:13David Imel?

  On your podcast player of choice.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 3:15David Imel?

  Yeah. Well, we do this, you know, did they even test this thing every single week?

• 3:19Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 3:19David Imel?

  I had two last week, so I saved one for this week. And I think that this is probably present in many different apps. You've probably experienced this. But I was noticing, I was making a party full event because no one in history has yet used the Apple invites app. So I was using a party, I was doing the party full event. And at the very last stage of making your party full event, when you're just about to send it out, it has a little like default text message that it sends to everybody that, hey, David's inviting you to this thing.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:47David Imel?

  But it's like, do you want to modify it and make it custom? And I was like, obviously, yes. I don't want to be, you know, like everybody else. So you, you write your stuff in it, but when you, when you write your stuff, your keyboard comes up. There's no way to get rid of the keyboard. There's no back button and there's no, like the, the next button, the publish button is underneath your keyboard.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  This is an iOS bug, huh?

• 4:10David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:11David Imel?

  I've tried it on multiple iPhones. It persists. And I've had this happen in multiple different apps, but I just think it's funny that there's not even a back button and you can't swipe back to get to the last page. You have to fully close the app.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:23David Imel?

  Reopen it and then modify it again. And eventually I just gave up and I was like, I guess the default text is just going out.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Is that why everyone sends the default?

• 4:30David Imel?

  I guess so.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  It's weird. I feel like I want to half blame this on Partyful, but also half on iOS, because on Android, there's just a button to close your keyboard, on the keyboard.

• 4:39David Imel?

  Which is smart.

• 4:39Speaker 01

  But also, most iOS apps don't have this problem. So it's half an iOS problem, but also half the developer not just making it above the keyboard.

• 4:46David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  So, both of you.

• 4:49David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Fix that.

• 4:50David Imel?

  Make the next button in the top right, so that you don't have to worry about this. And also make a back button in the top left.

• 4:56Speaker 04

  You know who has a lot of free time in his hands now to fix little things like this?

• 5:00Speaker 01

  Adam Molina?

• 5:01Speaker 04

  No.

• 5:01David Imel?

  Tim Cook.

• 5:02Speaker 01

  Tim Cook. Tim Cook doesn't use this stuff.

• 5:04David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  We'll talk about more. Actually, you know, let's just talk about it now. Uh, Apple CEO, Tim Cook.

• 5:12David Imel?

  Tim Cook.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  Has announced that he is stepping down in September and he will be moving to the board, chairman of the board. He will be succeeded as CEO by John Ternus. This is, we all kind of have been reading that this is going to happen at some point. Everyone keeps asking, "Tim Cook, what's your legacy going to be when you leave?" And he's like, "I ain't going anywhere."

• 5:32David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  And then, boom. It's now announced and official.

• 5:35David Imel?

  Even a month ago, he said, "I have no plans on retiring anytime soon."

• 5:39Speaker 01

  They do the Apple thing where they're like, "I cannot speak about future products or events."

• 5:42David Imel?

  Boom.

• 5:43Speaker 01

  And then it just happens. And we're like, "Ah, you knew the whole time."

• 5:45David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  So many thoughts. I do plan on putting together a video, but this is a good sounding board. I want to, I want to fire some thoughts at you guys and see what you think. So first of all, Tim Cook's career at Apple, pretty goaded as a company.

• 6:00David Imel?

  Pretty.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  Like, just as far as, like, people invest in Apple, they went from a sub-half billion, or sub-half trillion dollar company, to a one trillion, to a two trillion, to a three, to a four trillion dollar company.

• 6:11David Imel?

  That's crazy.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  This guy is good at steering that ship, supply chain wizard, shipping tons of products, creating tons of revenue, lots of services. So if you want to analyze Apple post-Steve Jobs era as a company, they were a very successful company under Tim Cook. Very hard to succeed Steve Jobs, but he did that. But... People are excited for John Ternus as CEO of Apple because John Ternus was the senior VP of hardware engineering. And I've talked to him about hardware many times. He is a product guy, like he is into making good hardware, which is really exciting. You might have also watched the Tim Cook interview where I asked him about products and it became very clear that he is not thinking about that stuff as often.

• 6:55David Imel?

  The magic mouse.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can see the gears turning in his head.

• 6:59David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Trying to remember, first of all, what is a magic mouse?

• 7:02David Imel?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  And then, second of all, what do I say about a mouse?

• 7:05David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  And the word he came up with was ergonomics. Nothing against Tim Cook.

• 7:10David Imel?

  The last possible thing.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, like that's not it. Like it was kind of a meme. But so, nothing against Tim Cook. Like he has his leadership style, was very successful. But you could also kind of see the influence of, you know, Johnny Ive leaving and like the sort of new design language of Apple products. I think the MacBook Pro is a really good example.

• 7:30David Imel?

  Yes.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  Of the design language at Apple changing.

• 7:33David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  Going from being super thin and sleek, too thin for its own good and thermal throttling, and keyboard issues because of the butterflies, which is all this stuff.

• 7:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  And now being like thicker, having real ports, being super powerful. And Apple silicon, you know, coming up and being super important. So a lot of good stuff happened under Tim Cook, but now I think it's even more exciting for product focus.

• 7:56David Imel?

  For sure. Yeah, we haven't really had a product CEO at Apple since Steve Jobs, which, I mean, it was only Tim Cook in between. So there's that. But it, you know, Steve Jobs made a lot of interesting weird stuff. And I think it would be cool to have more interesting weird stuff. We had Vision Pro.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:12David Imel?

  They possibly committed a little too hard to Vision Pro because Apple doesn't like to ship anything that it doesn't think is going to be a hit.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  That's, I've been thinking about this a lot. And like the companies that we cover, we talk about Google a lot, we talk about, you know, Samsung a lot here in the US. There's a lot of companies who ship a lot of products and famously kill them. Like the Google graveyard is immense. And these companies kill products for various reasons. Maybe they're just not scaling well. Maybe they're a total failure and no one used them. Maybe they're a negative impact on the company, whatever. But they kill products all the time. When Apple kills a product once in a while, it's like this huge deal. Even when they only kill like a wireless charging pad they're gonna make.

• 8:51David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  It becomes kind of lore.

• 8:53David Imel?

  Which they don't acknowledge until like years later.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're like ashamed of any little failure that they've had where they announced something and then it didn't work. Apple Intelligence is the latest massive embarrassing failure.

• 9:04David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  So Apple doesn't really make that many stuff, things. And I was, I was thinking about this analogy. I'm gonna throw it off you guys and see how it hits your ear.

• 9:10David Imel?

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  Uh, Samsung and Google are like YouTubers that upload every day. They're like daily vloggers.

• 9:18David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  They'll throw out a new thing. If it works, great. They'll throw out another thing the next day and another thing the next day and another thing. And you can never really get too hung up on if one of the things fails. And if something scales and does super well.

• 9:28David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 9:29Speaker 01

  Great, we might do a follow-up of that.

• 9:30David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  We might do it again the next year.

• 9:32David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  But they're kind of just uploading all the time. Apple is like the YouTuber that uploads every six months.

• 9:37David Imel?

  Michael Reeves.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  Or every four months, right?

• 9:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 9:40Speaker 04

  Just like every couple of months and just straight bangers.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  And it's fine. It's usually bangers. They clearly spend a lot and like really commit a lot of the company and a lot of the future to it. And they have future plans and they're like, this is a huge commitment, blah, blah. And they, they use that language too. They're like, this is revolutionary for us. This is a massive deal. And so when one of them doesn't quite hit, you can't, you can't hide because the next thing is months away. And you did, you did just talk pretty grandly about it. And so it's kind of like a little bit embarrassing because you, so that's why I think they don't, they don't try as many different things that I want them to. I wish Apple made camera, a printer. A whole bunch of other random stuff that they don't make, like a HomePod with a screen. Like there's tons of stuff that I would like them to try, but they're not the daily uploader. They're like behind the scenes scheming for months on the big upload.

• 10:26David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Is that a valid number?

• 10:28David Imel?

  For sure, yeah. It's like the weight of your expectations. I kind of, I think Christopher Nolan could maybe be a good analogy for Apple. Because it takes a really long time for them to come out with a new thing. When they do, they try really hard to have some revolutionary, innovative thing. They're almost always bangers, but there's always a movie like Tenet that you're like, what is this for? Who is this for?

• 10:47Speaker 02

  Shut the [bleep] up.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  I haven't seen it.

• 10:52Speaker 02

  Tagging rules if you know it.

• 10:53David Imel?

  I haven't actually seen it.

• 10:56David Imel?

  But, that's the Vision Pro.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  But it's not Interstellar. It's just not.

• 10:59David Imel?

  No, I mean, Interstellar's like the iPhone.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:01David Imel?

  You know? Tenet is the Vision Pro. Most people don't understand it.

• 11:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's good. And some people, yeah, some people will never try it and have just heard bad things about it and they're like, "Why did I spend the money?"

• 11:11David Imel?

  Like me. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I, it's interesting because I don't necessarily foresee Apple shifting to trying a lot of new stuff again. It's like, again, it's the weight of your expectations. And because Apple has only shipped bangers generally, you know, there have been some weird things here and there, people scrutinize the hell out of them when they don't ship good stuff. And there are like a million iPhones now. Like, I was kind of thinking about this. They didn't necessarily expand into a ton of new product categories, but the products that they do have, they have sort of decided to fill that every price point thing.

• 11:48Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:49David Imel?

  Like Samsung does.

• 11:49Speaker 01

  That's so safe.

• 11:50David Imel?

  Yeah, it's, it's very safe.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. Instead of making a folding phone and a flat folding phone and then a skinny phone and then a flipping phone like Samsung, they're just like, "Here's the iPhone and here's the other iPhone."

• 12:01David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  And the other iPhone, and the other iPhone.

• 12:03David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  And that's Tim Cook's version of a variety of products.

• 12:06David Imel?

  And one could argue that there are almost too many SKUs of all of these devices at this point.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  I think that's a fair argument.

• 12:11David Imel?

  I kind of think we have too many.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:13David Imel?

  I don't think that the iPhone, um, what is the, the cheap one now? What is it called?

• 12:17Speaker 01

  Well, there's the 17E and then there's the base iPhone and then there's the Air now and then there's the Pro and then there's the Pro Max and there's the iPad and then there's the iPad Air and then there's the iPad Pro and then there's the MacBooks that kind of like start, the price ladder is real and they do make a lot of money selling a lot of stuff, but it doesn't feel like a real variety.

• 12:36David Imel?

  Yeah, there was a good, there was a really good Snazzy Q video a few weeks ago about how the Neo kind of destroyed the MacBook Air.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  I like that, yeah.

• 12:45David Imel?

  Because, you know, the Air when it originally launched was that manila folder, like it was Breaking Barriers like thing. And now it's, you know, it's, it's thin-ish, but it's not insanely thin and it's good and it's got a bigger screen, but it's like more expensive in a weird way. And at this point, they, I think they need to, they need to lean into Ternus's hardware engineering background to actually like... If they're not going to expand to new product categories again, I would like to see them reinvent their current product categories they have. Make the Air like insane again, you know what I mean? And it's surprising that when the M-chip revolution happened, they didn't actually take that opportunity to, you know, make the Johnny Ive era of everything being Omegathan, just like,

• 13:30David Imel?

  "Oh, a normal computer, but it's Omegathan."

• 13:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:33David Imel?

  I'm glad that they went the thick boy MacBook Pro route because we're power users and we like to have that extra headroom. But, you know, they kind of, I mean, they have an opportunity now to make the MacBook Air super, super, super thin and still faster than the Neo.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, the, there are so many, and this is, as a product reviewer, you see a lot of this, there are so many products from Apple that shipped in the last couple, like 10 years, that are simply the same product with a new chip, or like, or like shuffling parts around the same couple of things. So you'd review, and you see a lot of this language from Apple because they kind of also in press land, like pretend other companies don't exist a lot of times. So they'll say, "This is our new product. It has this from our other product, and this other thing from our other product, and now it's the new thing, even though it's using old things."

• 14:20David Imel?

  Right.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  You're like, "Okay." iPhone 17E, they'll just go, "It's the screen from this old iPhone, and the chip from this other iPhone, and the camera from this other iPhone, and now it's a new phone."

• 14:30David Imel?

  Parts-bad phone.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  And that's Tim Cook genius at work.

• 14:33David Imel?

  Yeah, that's supply chain.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  We are, you know, supply chain maxing right now.

• 14:37David Imel?

  That is what they do.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  So, yeah, now they're a $4 trillion company. A little bit uninspiring, I think. They do have big swings every once in a while, but I am excited for a little bit more variety potentially.

• 14:50David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah, some people were also saying, like, now that Tim Cook is just sort of the chairman of the board, he can go do all the political things, right? Because it was always kind of weird to have him being the CEO and also having to deal with like the administration, all the stuff like that. Now the CEO of Apple can just focus on running Apple, and Tim Cook, because he's still sort of affiliated with the company, can go deal with all the politics.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what I'm curious about what the job actually is, because I didn't really get to. Ask Tim that, but I kind of just want to ask like, what is running Apple like? Like, is John Turner's job going to become way less input on new hardware and ideas? And way more running Apple? Cause that is part of the job. You gotta do a lot of that sort of stuff. So I'm curious about that.

• 15:35David Imel?

  Yeah, Johnny Sarugi is taking over as head of hardware. He was the guy that, he's always in the labs in the video talking about the M chip.

• 15:42Speaker 01

  Surrounded by Mac Pros.

• 15:43David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  And Pro Display XDRs.

• 15:45David Imel?

  Yeah, which the Mac Pros are. What are they gonna do now at the Mac Pros Con?

• 15:48Speaker 01

  It's just gonna be Mac Studios.

• 15:49David Imel?

  Yeah, they look so much more impressive.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  I know. They really do. Their great background video props.

• 15:54David Imel?

  Yes, they are, because they look really cool. But he's taking over as head of hardware, which is really interesting because, you know, he's great at making chips, obviously. That's his thing. But the question is, like, do his hardware chops match up, you know?

• 16:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:09David Imel?

  That's gonna be really interesting to see.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  Other products that you wished Apple would make that maybe they have a better chance of making now that it's someone who's in charge of hardware?

• 16:18David Imel?

  I mean, I would love a camera.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  Same.

• 16:20David Imel?

  They're not gonna do it probably because I think that the camera market, like, I think Canon makes most of its money on their super, super cheap cameras, right? Like, the prosumer market for cameras is not that big.

• 16:33Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 16:33David Imel?

  And Apple, I believe, still uses Sony for its sensors.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:39David Imel?

  Apple has the, you know, they seem like the company that could start making their own sensors.

• 16:44Speaker 01

  That would be sick.

• 16:45David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 16:46Speaker 01

  That would be sick.

• 16:46David Imel?

  I mean, putting their DRAM directly on the chip and making it go straight to the camera and being more heavily.

• 16:50Speaker 01

  Doing computational photography on a large sensor cell size? That could be interesting.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  And A18 might have enough juice to be like a pretty sick image processing engine.

• 17:00David Imel?

  Oh, it already is.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:02David Imel?

  It already is.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  But, you know, add the way more pixels and way more lines.

• 17:05Speaker 02

  But could it do, do you think it's powerful enough to function on a, like, an APS-C sized sensor?

• 17:10David Imel?

  Probably, yes.

• 17:11Speaker 01

  If you dedicated the entire chip to image processing, yeah, I think so.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  They could definitely got enough A18s lying around.

• 17:17David Imel?

  Even just to make the iPhone camera better, you know what I mean? I mean, they probably have like a relatively deep level of integration based on, you know, how early they get the chips from Sony and. What they talk to them about and what they want them to build it on. But I would like to see deeper integration of that. And then maybe, yes, maybe they could make another camera. Cause remember, they did make a camera that was made by Fujifilm.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  Take.

• 17:39David Imel?

  Yeah, it was a Fujifilm camera that was Apple branded.

• 17:42Speaker 04

  I was gonna say, they're never gonna make a camera, because they would just tell you that they make a camera already.

• 17:46David Imel?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  Well, okay, yeah, I was.

• 17:49David Imel?

  Not a big enough market either.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  I was watching, um, the AirPods Max 2 came out, and there's, there's reviews out there now. And it's basically like, yeah, they're the same. And I'm like, this is such a Tim Cook thing. Like, they're just reusing, they have all these, okay, H2 chips, ship them. Like, it's the same product over and over. And I'm like, why? Like, what would, what would convince Apple to actually spend interesting money developing new? Like, what would convince Apple to make good AirPods Max?

• 18:14Speaker 04

  Competition.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  Competition feels like.

• 18:18David Imel?

  Competition.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  It's out there now. Like, it's not necessarily all in the same buckets. Like, they are the only ones doing this metal build, uh, weird case thing. But their battery life's not competitive, but their sound quality is decently competitive. But the integration with the iPhone has always been the thing that's not, you can't really compete with it. It's weird.

• 18:40David Imel?

  Their walled garden allows them to not really have competition. Even if there are other headphones that are, sound just as good, have just as good connectivity, you know, battery life lasts just as long. The integration is always gonna be them only, and so you can't really compete with that.

• 18:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:55David Imel?

  At the end of the day.

• 18:56Speaker 01

  I just feel like if I worked at Apple Hardware, and I was like, you know, biting at the, chomping at the bit, or whatever it's called, to like, make real improvements to AirPods Max, and then the order comes down from Tim Cook, and he's like, same design. Same case. Same everything. Just throw the H2 chip in there and call it a day. We're gonna ship millions of these. We're like, dang, I really wanna do something interesting. I feel like maybe that's the door that can be opened by this.

• 19:21David Imel?

  Could be.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 19:22David Imel?

  It's safe to keep shipping the same thing over and over again.

• 19:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:25David Imel?

  I mean, um, there's some crazy statistic about like, AirPods Pro, and how they would be like, one of the top 15 companies in the world or something, if they.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  Just.

• 19:32David Imel?

  Were just a company.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:34David Imel?

  So, yeah, I don't know. I, I. Personally, I think that we're over indexing a little bit on his decision making when it comes to hardware design and stuff like that. I think Apple is probably a complex enough organization that these decisions mostly get made by like the middle managers and he just approves things.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:52David Imel?

  He just signs things. You know what I mean?

• 19:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. Some of my earliest to CEO interviews, when I actually got answers from them, I would ask them like what that's like being a CEO and it's like, honestly, most of the decisions don't get to you. And if they do, they are the hardest decisions that had to be passed up the chain.

• 20:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  Where it's like, you know, decisions about the future of the company are like really difficult technical and moral decisions about what products they should do.

• 20:16David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 20:17Speaker 01

  Where if it's just, hey, you know, there's a simple update for AirPods Max out there. We can just like take that market share and keep going. Should we do it? That doesn't even really make it to him.

• 20:25David Imel?

  No.

• 20:26Speaker 01

  And that's how you end up with him going, we make a magic mouse?

• 20:28David Imel?

  Yeah. What is that?

• 20:30Speaker 01

  What is that?

• 20:31Speaker 04

  Am I the only one thinking not a lot is going to change?

• 20:34Speaker 01

  No, that's what I mean. Yeah. There's very much like, as a four trillion dollar company, you are a thousand percent like a huge boat with many small oars and no one person is going to steer the whole boat in a totally new direction. It's very fair to assume that this is going to be a smooth

• 20:49David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 20:50Speaker 01

  handover with minimal risk to investors and the minimal changes in almost everything.

• 20:55David Imel?

  We're not talking about all birds over here. Okay.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the opposite. That's the opposite.

• 21:00David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 21:00Speaker 01

  So I think, you know, I don't even know what the stock price is doing, but I'm sure investors are like, oh, how is this gonna go?

• 21:06David Imel?

  I'm sure Tim Cook is also gonna give a ton of guidance about supply chain stuff. Like, he's still gonna be involved.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  He's still gotta do Tim Cook things.

• 21:12Speaker 04

  Speaking of Tim Cook things, I pulled some quotes from their PR release that I just found interesting. Mainly, Apple Services has been a major force.

• 21:22David Imel?

  We didn't even talk about services.

• 21:23Speaker 04

  Yeah. Apple Services has been a major focus area of Cook's. And during his tenure, the category has grown to become a more than $100 billion business.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:31Speaker 04

  The equivalent of a Fortune 40 company.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:35Speaker 04

  Just the services. That's insane.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  That's Tim Cook.

• 21:38Speaker 04

  That's 30% of every tap you do on the iPhone.

• 21:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 21:42Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 21:43David Imel?

  I mean, it makes sense. Yeah, we didn't even talk about the services. He really did grow all of those monthly ecosystem services.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:50David Imel?

  It's crazy. I, I wonder, I think Fitness Plus might get reduced soon, to be honest, because they put a lot of money into that and that seems to be one of their weakest services.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 21:59David Imel?

  Yeah. Apple TV Plus also spends way too much money, but I think that they like kind of being the new HBO. So that's probably fine.

• 22:08Speaker 01

  You know what I also think about a lot randomly? There's a lot of companies they could acquire.

• 22:11David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  To just, like, like a Peloton or like a random, like, fitness-related company that could really boost their quality of product, but they never seem to do it.

• 22:22David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 22:22Speaker 01

  And that's another thing. I don't know if that's going to change at all.

• 22:25David Imel?

  I feel like they don't want to do that because they don't want to dilute their own brand. You know, it's kind of risky to do that when Apple already has such a, like, really, really good identity. And if Peloton gets in trouble for doing something Pelotony, because they always have, then Apple gets the flak for it. And doing that to Beats was like the last time they did something like that was a long time ago.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was a long time ago. I guess I just mean like if they have a really weak product offering, like people are talking about this with AI, but just if they have a weak product and there's a company that's way smaller, but that's doing a lot of really good stuff that they're not doing.

• 22:57David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  They can copy some of it. They can, like, make their own version of it that ties into the iPhone or whatever. But I always think of them as the iPhone company. And if they ever wanted to, like, quickly expand and make a whole bunch of way better things, maybe that's a route. But they, yeah, they never seem to do it.

• 23:14David Imel?

  They never seem to do it.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  Beats is last.

• 23:15David Imel?

  I mean, because when you think about it, it's like, what could they really expand? Like, you asked me the question, what product would they make if I, if I could wave a magic wand? What would you want them to make? Because I just, I don't really know of a lot of products.

• 23:25Speaker 02

  Alarm clock.

• 23:26David Imel?

  Like, just a dedicated alarm clock?

• 23:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, I want.

• 23:28David Imel?

  They'd say, your phone's an alarm clock.

• 23:29Speaker 02

  I know, but I think the idea that, like, instead of expanding into more services, they expand into more hardware peripherals is like.

• 23:36David Imel?

  You think they'd do that?

• 23:36Speaker 02

  No.

• 23:37David Imel?

  That's kind of what I'm picturing.

• 23:39Speaker 01

  That's what I want.

• 23:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it's, it's what I think someone like Ternus would be positioned to do, but I don't think, I think you're right that, like, anything they do dilutes the power of the iPhone.

• 23:49David Imel?

  Of the iPhone?

• 23:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:50David Imel?

  Yeah, totally. It's the everything device.

• 23:53Speaker 02

  Also, it's funny to think of them as the iPhone company because I think there's an argument to be made that Apple is actually an earbud company that just happens to make watches as well.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  Well, both of those companies are just accessories to the iPhone.

• 24:07Speaker 02

  I know, but like, like you could make the argument that like while the iPhone is like a game changing thing, it still is not like global market share, whereas the best selling audio product and the best selling watch of all time are both Apple products.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, true, but both of those markets combined are like a fraction of the size of the smartphone market.

• 24:24David Imel?

  Yeah, and the Apple Watch only works on the iPhone, so you'd need to sell an iPhone to sell an Apple Watch.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:32David Imel?

  So.

• 24:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like they, they obviously had a ton of success with the iPhone and they will never ship something that steps on the feet of the iPhone.

• 24:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  But every time they do ship something new, their first move is to make it the one that works best with the iPhone.

• 24:47David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  So that if you have an iPhone, you are more likely to get this one than any competition. That's true about their headphones, that's true about their, you know, the way that Macs and the iPads talk to the iPhone and iCloud and all this stuff, everything is a part of this ecosystem and that's their strategy number one.

• 25:00David Imel?

  I want to see a return of the HomePod and more form factors for the HomePod. I want to see them properly compete with Sonos, where you can wire that all over your house. I feel like that's the next step for them.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. A TV, everyone thought they were gonna make a TV for a while, they never did that.

• 25:15David Imel?

  And then they just made the Apple TV, which is a TV, you know?

• 25:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, but what if, I mean, they do-

• 25:19Speaker 02

  They make the Apple TV.

• 25:21David Imel?

  Apple TV.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  And Apple TV. And Apple TV Plus.

• 25:24Speaker 02

  No, not Plus anymore, they killed the Plus.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  Oh, just Apple TV?

• 25:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's all Apple TV.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  So you can watch Yo Dogg.

• 25:29David Imel?

  Heard you like Apple TV?

• 25:30Speaker 01

  So you can watch Apple TV on your Apple TV. On your Apple TV.

• 25:33Speaker 02

  I think I, I got that trivia question from a tweet that was like, "Apple makes three products called Apple TV, none of them are TVs, Steve Jobs would lose his mind."

• 25:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yes, so they, you know, there's lots of things that I, I'm curious if they're gonna start to jump into or like dip their feet into and we'll see.

• 25:51David Imel?

  Yeah, well, I hope that John Ternus says good morning very loudly. That's the only-

• 25:56Speaker 01

  He's gotta have a new intro, there's no way you can, that's like a, that's like a rapper's signature line.

• 26:01David Imel?

  That's true.

• 26:01Speaker 02

  The end, Vitos!

• 26:02Speaker 01

  You can't take his bar.

• 26:03Speaker 02

  What is up?

• 26:04Speaker 01

  You need a new bar. Yeah. He did, he did, uh, I forgot what he said when he did the app with the MacBook Neo event. Did he say, what did he say? I don't remember.

• 26:12David Imel?

  That wasn't streamed, so.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  It wasn't streamed, so I don't actually remember what he said, because I didn't take video of it.

• 26:16David Imel?

  He said, "Hi, everyone."

• 26:17Speaker 01

  Probably.

• 26:18David Imel?

  Or something like that.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  That sounds like, that sounds like what he said.

• 26:20Speaker 02

  What are the odds he gets on stage and goes, "Wazza!"

• 26:25Speaker 01

  Not zero. There's definitely a polymarket link somewhere.

• 26:29David Imel?

  Yeah, so he takes over in September. So I-

• 26:32Speaker 02

  Good thing Apple does nothing in September.

• 26:34David Imel?

  Yeah. Um, I'm curious what happens at Dub Dub. Is it gonna be Tim that comes onstage? Probably-

• 26:40Speaker 01

  I don't think Tim, has he come onstage at Dub Dub?

• 26:42David Imel?

  Yeah. Oh, really? He comes before the video starts.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Oh, oh, yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  Doesn't he open Dub Dub?

• 26:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, he comes, so it happens, yeah, in real life.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  I thought they always, Dub Dub, the video thing, always starts with Tim on the roof or something.

• 26:54David Imel?

  Yes, it does, but also he comes out in person.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, so what happens is when you go to the, to WWDC in person, they start, everyone's sitting in the same space and looking at the same screen, and they actually have someone come out onstage, usually Tim Cook or Craig Federighi, because it's Dub Dub, and they come, sometimes both, and they come out and they say, "Welcome to WWDC, so happy to have you all here." They'll say like one or two generic lines, and then they'll walk offstage into the front row, and then they'll start playing the video that everyone sees on the stream. And then it's Tim Cook and him again on the screen.

• 27:23David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  So lately, so the MacBook Neo event, they had, you know, the announcement videos and everything, but that, no Tim Cook to be found anywhere. It was just John Ternus onstage, and I think one or two executives with him. But he was clearly like the, "Welcome everyone to the thing that I'm showing you" person.

• 27:42David Imel?

  Testbed.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  Uh, so yeah, that happened once. That'll probably happen again in September, I believe, Dub Dub. Well, yeah, I don't know.

• 27:49David Imel?

  I think there would be a lot of hype if he came out.

• 27:51Speaker 01

  If John, I think that's probably what they'll do.

• 27:52David Imel?

  I think that's probably what they'll do.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 27:54Speaker 04

  But Dub Dub is like a software thing.

• 27:56Speaker 01

  It is, but you're kinda like the, he kinda sets the tone of like, "Welcome to the thing," and then passes it to the software people.

• 28:03David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 28:03Speaker 04

  So you're saying John Ternus will come out, or Tim Cook will come out?

• 28:06Speaker 01

  I think John Ternus will come out as the, "I'm about to be the CEO."

• 28:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  And I think Tim Cook has done his last keynote.

• 28:13Speaker 04

  Really? That's what I was gonna ask. So you think like, we're not gonna get one more Tim Cook good morning?

• 28:17Speaker 02

  I think, no, I, I think we're gonna get some sort of like cheeky little thing. Like, Tim Cook is gonna come out and like airdrop the CEO position to John Ternus.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  That's actually-

• 28:27David Imel?

  I could see that, yeah.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  That's probably-

• 28:29David Imel?

  That'd be funny.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, so maybe Dub Dub is the last Tim Cook, and the first John Ternus.

• 28:34Speaker 02

  He's gonna, he's gonna send him an Apple Events invite to become CEO.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  He's gonna be in a meeting with HR on his calendar.

• 28:42David Imel?

  I wonder if they'll put that in the dub dub intro video this year because you know that everyone's gonna like

• 28:47Speaker 01

  Some Easter egg.

• 28:48David Imel?

  People are gonna be so excited about about the whole thing. It's kinda crazy. This is a cult.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  You know what's funny? The amount of people who are like, what about Craig? Why isn't he the CEO? Cause he's the one who's like the most charismatic on camera. He's still in charge of all the software.

• 29:01David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  So that's not.

• 29:02David Imel?

  Got Falcon here.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  You just gotta pick somebody.

• 29:04David Imel?

  Yeah, I'm glad. I mean, hopefully he reverses course with Liquid S, so. Well, you know, Tim Cook might have had his amount, his events that he was going to keynote set to zero. But you know what else you can now set to zero?

• 29:17Speaker 01

  What?

• 29:17David Imel?

  YouTube Shorts on your phone.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  What? Yeah. I still watch shorts.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  On your phone? Yeah.

• 29:26David Imel?

  Crazy.

• 29:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:27Speaker 04

  Okay, this is what confused me about this because shorts are made for the phone, right?

• 29:32Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 29:33Speaker 04

  Vertical video, TikTok, Instagram reels, YouTube shorts, all this stuff is vertical because it's on your phone.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 29:39Speaker 04

  They won't give us this feature on TVs or desktop.

• 29:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:43Speaker 04

  So shorts is still available on YouTube desktop, right? Like if you're on a computer, you go to YouTube, you'll still get shorts there.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 29:49Speaker 04

  But I have the option on my phone, which is what it was made for.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:53Speaker 04

  To turn it to zero. That makes no sense to me.

• 29:55David Imel?

  Percolate across all your devices?

• 29:57Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 29:58David Imel?

  I imagine the setting is on the phone and then it, but I updated my app this morning and I still didn't have the option to set it to zero.

• 30:04Speaker 04

  Oh, I have the option to set it to zero. So maybe I'll do that and see if it populates across.

• 30:08David Imel?

  If it populates on your, on your device, on your laptop. But yeah, so previously, you know, there was a shorts time limit. And I'm guessing this is sort of like a parental thing where parents could make sure that their kids were not just like brain dumping on shorts all day.

• 30:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:23David Imel?

  And the options were in 15 minute increments and it could be 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 45 minutes, an hour.

• 30:27Speaker 04

  That's the verb for it, by the way. Brain dumping.

• 30:29David Imel?

  Brain dumping.

• 30:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:30David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah. Um, brain maxing. And now apparently you can set it to zero. Again, I still didn't have this option. But I really wish that more social media apps would give you this option because like I've said, sometimes Instagram really sucks me in for 45 minutes.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  Never gonna, well, Instagram leans on.

• 30:48David Imel?

  On reels and TikTok, obviously, is TikTok. So I feel like this is something.

• 30:52Speaker 04

  This feels like how it should be, though. Like, I don't mind having shorts and reels on my phone, whatever.

• 30:57David Imel?

  If you have the option.

• 30:58Speaker 04

  If I have the option to go to it. I don't like being served it.

• 31:01David Imel?

  But it affects their bottom line.

• 31:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, I don't give a.

• 31:04David Imel?

  You don't.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  I guess it's too, it's too big of a bottom line. Yeah, for YouTube, it's a fraction of their bottom line. For Instagram and for TikTok, it's too much of their bottom line to give you that option.

• 31:14David Imel?

  It's surprising to me that YouTube is even allowing this in the first place.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Well, flex.

• 31:18David Imel?

  Yeah, kind of. I like it. We're healthier.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:21David Imel?

  You know? So, yeah, kind of weird.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  And then you get sucked into a long form.

• 31:24David Imel?

  Yeah. Speaking of something disappearing.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 31:30David Imel?

  Get shorts disappeared for some people if you want. Nothing, we, we kind of missed the story last week because it happened like during the podcast episode last week while we're recording.

• 31:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, but it also didn't happen.

• 31:40David Imel?

  It, yeah, it's Schrodinger's airdrop clone. Nothing last week released an airdrop competitor called Warp for a few hours.

• 31:52David Imel?

  It was gone like three hours after they released it. They deleted all traces of it from social media. Android Authority got a statement from them asking why they deleted it. And Nothing said, "Our product team has temporarily removed the Nothing Warp file sharing application to make necessary improvements based on early user feedback and technical evaluations."

• 32:11Speaker 04

  That was quick.

• 32:11David Imel?

  "This is not a permanent removal, but rather a strategic pause to enhance a product's performance and ensure it meets our high-quality standards."

• 32:18Speaker 01

  So normally, that's just a software update.

• 32:20Speaker 04

  So there's more reasons why they had to remove it. I hear this is a security nightmare, so we pulled it.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  Either, either legal or security or both.

• 32:30David Imel?

  Legal or security. The site CyberNews was speculating that it was extremely close to an open source tool that was already available and it looked almost identical.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  That's funny.

• 32:40David Imel?

  So it's possible that they just kind of took the open source tool and released it as their own thing and then they got blowback from it. I'm guessing it's more of a security thing. Apparently, the way that this worked was that it would upload the file to Google Drive, send it to the other person, auto-download it. And then when it finished downloading, it would delete it off the Google Drive.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  Which is really weird.

• 33:02David Imel?

  Really funny, actually.

• 33:03Speaker 01

  It's possible Google just didn't, like, this violates their terms of service or something for Google Drive. I'm not sure.

• 33:09Speaker 04

  I'm thinking, wouldn't that mean that there has to be some sort of automation to automatically delete something from a user's Google Drive?

• 33:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:16Speaker 04

  Which doesn't sound like Google would be okay with that.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  No.

• 33:19Speaker 02

  No, I think, I think, no, because you can delete stuff off of your Google Drive with the Google Drive API. Like, I, I've built tools that, that do that. I think it's more like, I don't think you can build this, I don't think you can build a commercial service that piggybacks Google Drive. I think that's the...

• 33:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Maybe that's why. I mean, it's, it's interesting that they even gave the statement and that they said it is a temporary pause. But, you know, it could be an indefinite pause.

• 33:43David Imel?

  Could come back, could not.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:45David Imel?

  TBD.

• 33:45Speaker 01

  TBD.

• 33:46Speaker 04

  I like how this is now a thing. Like, it seems like everyone has an AirDrop.

• 33:51Speaker 01

  Oh, 100%.

• 33:51Speaker 04

  Editor kind of thing.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  I, there is a phone that will, okay, embargo will be out by the time we talk about this. Oppo's phone, but this is also not just this phone, where there's like a seven or eight page section of their review guide, which is just clones of Apple features. Where they'll be like, install this Oppo app on your Mac, and then you will be able to use AirDrop on your Oppo phone. And install this Oppo app on your Mac, and you'll be able to mirror your Oppo phone on your Mac. Like, they, they're selectively going in and picking Apple ecosystem features and then making a, like, companion app that lets you have a version of that. So that if you are in Apple's ecosystem, you can still use Oppo's phone.

• 34:34David Imel?

  Didn't they make some sort of workaround where you can also use your Apple Watch on that?

• 34:38Speaker 01

  Yes, that's another one. Yeah. So you have a, you have a specific app on your phone.

• 34:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 34:42Speaker 01

  And then, I don't even think you need an iPhone. I think you get the Apple Watch and then it can work with the Oppo phone.

• 34:47David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  I think you might need the iPhone when you set it up, right? And then...

• 34:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, you need an iPhone to set it up.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  That wouldn't shock me.

• 34:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:54Speaker 01

  But still, yeah, it's so deliberate.

• 34:56David Imel?

  It is.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  It's like, wow, I can't really switch to the Oppo phone because I use an iPhone and all these accessories. Oh.

• 35:01Speaker 04

  Hold on. Hold on. We've got an answer.

• 35:04David Imel?

  Oh, but you can.

• 35:05Speaker 04

  We went so long without any of these, and now it seems like there's a million of them.

• 35:10Speaker 01

  Why is it all happening now? It is strange. It is strange.

• 35:12David Imel?

  Europe.

• 35:13Speaker 01

  Europe. Possibly Europe. Possibly Europe.

• 35:16David Imel?

  We love it.

• 35:17Speaker 01

  All right. Well, we got a lot more stories coming up. We clearly don't want to save the best for the beginning. I guess blow through the best of the beginning.

• 35:27David Imel?

  So we're gonna do something that lasts longer than Tim Cook's tenure, which is trivia.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  So we have to do 15 years of trivia?

• 35:38David Imel?

  I kind of, yeah.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Lock in.

• 35:43David Imel?

  I hope waveform is still going in 15 years.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  Same.

• 35:46David Imel?

  Yeah, when I'm 45.

• 35:48Speaker 02

  All right, guys, Tim Cook is stepping down, like we just covered. And this, I thought, would be the perfect excuse to ask a question about the most random fact I've ever learned about Tim Cook, which I got from a Wall Street Journal article, came out a little bit ago. It's called "Tim Cook on Why Apple's Huge Bets Will Pay Off" by Ben Cohen. Big article when it came out. And the thing that I learned from this article that shook me to my core.

• 36:18Speaker 01

  And what?

• 36:19Speaker 02

  What is Tim Cook's favorite soda? Hint: While it is a very common soda throughout the US, it is not sold in Apple vending machines.

• 36:32David Imel?

  Like on-campus vending machines?

• 36:34Speaker 02

  That is correct.

• 36:35David Imel?

  So does he just get deliveries directly to his office?

• 36:37Speaker 02

  He said in this interview, he does not get to drink it as much as he wants.

• 36:41Speaker 01

  Interesting. I do know he grew up like in the Midwest, so this is probably gonna be a soda I've never heard of.

• 36:46Speaker 02

  He did not grow up in the Midwest.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  Oh, but he's from the Midwest.

• 36:51Speaker 04

  Don't say it, because that's mine.

• 36:52Speaker 01

  He's from the Midwest.

• 36:53Speaker 02

  He's not from the Midwest either.

• 36:54Speaker 01

  What?

• 36:55Speaker 02

  Guys.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  He has an accent.

• 36:57Speaker 02

  Not a Midwestern accent, are you serious?

• 36:59Speaker 04

  Wait, now look it up.

• 37:01Speaker 01

  I thought he was.

• 37:01David Imel?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 37:02Speaker 02

  Think about Tim Cook's accent, and now think about cartoon characters.

• 37:05David Imel?

  Yeah, okay, I get it. Is he really? Yeah, I guess he is. That makes sense, that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense, actually.

• 37:12Speaker 01

  All right, well, answers will be at the end, like usual. We'll be right back.

• 37:23Speaker 01

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• 38:23Speaker 05

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• 39:02Speaker 06

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• 39:46David Imel?

  Welcome back, everybody. We all know that Google could really do some stuff to make its pixels more appealing, and specifically, they could bring back features from the old Nexus days that would make it even more appealing.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  I can think of so many.

• 39:58David Imel?

  What's your number one feature?

• 40:00Speaker 01

  Glowing trackball.

• 40:01David Imel?

  Trackball, ooh.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  Nexus One.

• 40:03David Imel?

  That would be cool, but they're not doing that.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Oh darn, can I keep guessing?

• 40:06David Imel?

  You can keep guessing.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  Boom sound from the HTC One Play Edition.

• 40:10David Imel?

  That'd be cool.

• 40:11Speaker 01

  It's not that?

• 40:12David Imel?

  No, sorry.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  Damn. Physical keyboard from the G1.

• 40:15David Imel?

  You really want that?

• 40:16Speaker 01

  Not really. No, I don't. You're right. No moving parts.

• 40:19David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  Okay, hold on.

• 40:22David Imel?

  Think about something that costs one cent.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  Half-stage, like, two-stage shutter button from the Motorola Droid.

• 40:29David Imel?

  That'd be sick, but they're not doing that.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Damn. Yeah. Not even like, what about an accent power button?

• 40:33David Imel?

  Maybe.

• 40:34Speaker 01

  That'd be nice.

• 40:35David Imel?

  I'm not sure.

• 40:36Speaker 01

  Okay. They've done a lot. Remember the Panda Pixel, and then there was like a little orange power button?

• 40:40David Imel?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  That was nice.

• 40:41David Imel?

  God, I want that so bad. Bring it back.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  They could bring that back. Squeezing the sides, that was bad.

• 40:45David Imel?

  That was bad.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  It was fun. It was fun.

• 40:48David Imel?

  It never worked.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  But it didn't work as well as I was hoping.

• 40:50David Imel?

  Sully was so bad. There's a video of Adam and I in Central Park, shooting my Pixel 4 review, and just doing this, and it not working. It's so bad.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  That was an era, truly.

• 40:59Speaker 04

  The best part of that video is that the only way, for some reason, that it worked was if you leaned over it specifically in this way that made you look like a mermaid. So there's a shot where you're just like leaning on a rock like a mermaid.

• 41:10David Imel?

  Oh, that's true.

• 41:11Speaker 04

  Waiting at the phone.

• 41:12Speaker 01

  That was one of those, like, you see, there's so many tech demos of like, where they try to like gracefully show you the feature, and they're like, boom, and it doesn't work the first time. They're like, oh, sorry, I just gotta like do it a certain way. That was one where they would try it like six times, and it would work once, maybe? And you'd go, I can tell this is gonna suck.

• 41:27David Imel?

  It was so bad.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  Well, okay, what is it, then?

• 41:30David Imel?

  Okay, it's LEDs.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  Multicolor LEDs?

• 41:33David Imel?

  Yes.

• 41:34Speaker 01

  For notifications? Customizable?

• 41:37David Imel?

  Well, maybe. Customizable.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  I'm in.

• 41:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  I'm super in.

• 41:40David Imel?

  So there was an APK teardown of the latest Android 17 Beta 4, and there's a section in it with a whole page that specifically mentions Pixel Glow Lights, which will alert you of important notifications when your device is face down.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  Pixel Glow, oh, when it's face down?

• 41:55David Imel?

  Yes.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  Okay, so it's on the back?

• 41:57David Imel?

  Yes, on the back. There should be a light bar, and...

• 41:59Speaker 01

  A bar would be nice. Oh, I was picturing, cause like, there's a couple that have had like pin lights, or like the glowing trackball is an example, but like a little dot. So it'd just be like, the yellow light means this.

• 42:10David Imel?

  Oh, no.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  A bar.

• 42:11David Imel?

  It's a bar. That's what it's supposed to be. So it's gonna be RGB. They said that you can have it for notifications, for different types of notifications, like phone calls from different favorites, as well as it should animate while you're interacting with Gemini.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, of course.

• 42:26David Imel?

  So it should be all wavy, you know, do the thing.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 42:29David Imel?

  And I just think that that's a pretty sick feature.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  Tim Cook can never. This is crazy. I really like this idea.

• 42:36David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, there's a long time where I was customizing Android ROMs or just had like, you know, software settings where I could decide certain apps would glow my notification light a certain color. So there'd be like a light blue and a dark blue and a yellow and a green. And so I could know what the flashing color of the light meant and I can decide to check it or not.

• 42:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 42:55Speaker 01

  So this is like a bring that back.

• 42:57David Imel?

  If this is user customizable and maybe there'll be a ROM that allows it to be user customizable, which might bring back ROMs, who knows? That'd be pretty cool. That'd be sick. I think it would really help differentiate Pixel devices. They're kind of like, at that point, they're more customizable than nothing phones.

• 43:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:13David Imel?

  So it's like, what's Nothing got on them, you know?

• 43:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, the Nothing phone has the screen on the back with like, a bunch of, yeah, like, it's this mini display and you have these apps that you know you get essential notifications from. It's interesting. I think that's at least interesting. Most phones don't have anything on the back that you can tell like what notification you got. So I'd like another version of that.

• 43:35David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 43:35Speaker 04

  Can I be devil's advocate here?

• 43:36Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 43:37Speaker 04

  Try. So, what?

• 43:39Speaker 01

  I'll defend it. I'll be devil's devil's advocate.

• 43:42Speaker 04

  The double double?

• 43:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:43Speaker 04

  Okay, so for the record, great idea. Bring this back. I love this. But is this just Google preying on our nostalgia? Because we have always-on displays. That gives us way more information. It's not the phone upside down.

• 43:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:56Speaker 04

  But just putting the phone up, you can see everything now. Like, we have AMOLED. This is like a solved problem.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  That's valid. I would say there's a couple of things. One, I don't love always-on displays. I started turning them off on a lot of phones that it kind of got annoying. Either I would like tap the display as I'm putting it in my pocket and because it was always on, it would light up as I'm putting it away and I get annoyed, so I just turn it off. And I started like leaving my phone face down. These are face up sitting here, but they're not telling me anything because I turned always on display off. I would like to have them face down and just be able to know. Cause I'm waiting for the Slack notification for Wawa orders. And I'm like, oh, it's the pink notification. I know I should check this one. So, yeah. Are they playing on my nostalgia? Probably a little bit.

• 44:38David Imel?

  Probably a little bit, yeah. When I'm like out with a friend at dinner or something, I pretty much always flip my phone upside down because I don't like that, you know, I can get a notification and it shows up. And then I think that the reason that this is a little bit better is because being able to glance and just be like, oh, it's an email. That's it. Oh, it's a text. Maybe I should check it. But not moving your attention to exactly what the text says on the always on display. You get very distracted when you're like looking at that.

• 45:04Speaker 01

  You can just be like ambiently aware that you got a text.

• 45:07David Imel?

  Yeah. And it also helps you if you're interacting with Gemini, you know that it heard you because it's kind of waving around, you know?

• 45:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:13David Imel?

  And also just, uh, we like cool, pretty colors and that's pretty standard.

• 45:17Speaker 01

  You know, the back of the phone is a historically underutilized spot. Sometimes there's a fingerprint reader back there. Sometimes it's not.

• 45:22David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 45:23Speaker 01

  Sometimes there's a little display back there like the Xiaomi 17 Pro. Sometimes it's not.

• 45:26David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  So I like something back on.

• 45:28David Imel?

  It'll be interesting to see how they, you know, keep it waterproof and everything while also adding LEDs. I guess it'll have to be under glass.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  It should be behind the, yeah, yeah.

• 45:36David Imel?

  Where do you think it's going to be on the phone?

• 45:37Speaker 01

  I was picturing a bar across the bottom.

• 45:39David Imel?

  That'd be cool.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  Like a thin stripe type of thing.

• 45:42David Imel?

  That'd be super cool.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  I like that.

• 45:43Speaker 04

  I think it's going to be above the pixel bar.

• 45:46David Imel?

  Like right at the top?

• 45:47Speaker 04

  Right at the top, that little sliver there on the pixel.

• 45:50David Imel?

  I'm kind of on team bottom.

• 45:51Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  Careful.

• 45:55David Imel?

  There's nothing wrong with that, Marcos.

• 45:57Speaker 01

  Uh, just saying, careful.

• 45:58David Imel?

  So apparently the APK teardown also.

• 46:00Speaker 04

  Another one for the supercut.

• 46:01David Imel?

  Also.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  Another one for the David's freebie on the pod supercut. We, we watched that, by the way, if you're out there, we, we watched that and we laughed.

• 46:11David Imel?

  I don't think most people know this, what that is. Uh, okay. So the APK teardown also indicated a Pixel laptop that is going to be released. Um, they try this every six years.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  And I buy it immediately every six years.

• 46:24David Imel?

  Yeah. Um, but what's more exciting about this is one, it's also supposed to have the Pixel Glow thing, which I'm not really sure how they're gonna. Do that because computers are just very different with notifications.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  Well, okay. So remember the last Pixel laptop?

• 46:38David Imel?

  Yeah, the cheap one?

• 46:39Speaker 01

  That had the Pixel Book Go? No, so the Pixel, god, the names, hold on, I want to find the name of it. But it had an RGB stripe on the back. But after the CR48, yeah, like the Pixel, yeah, laptop.

• 46:51David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 46:52Speaker 01

  Just, so just that again.

• 46:53David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  But have it light up.

• 46:55David Imel?

  That one didn't actually glow, right?

• 46:57Speaker 01

  I thought it did.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  The Chromebook Pixel?

• 46:59Speaker 01

  Yes, that one.

• 47:00Speaker 02

  Chromebook Pixel.

• 47:00Speaker 01

  Did that one light up?

• 47:01Speaker 02

  The no glow Chromebook Pixel is a Pixel Book Glow, Pixel Book Go with Pixel Glow?

• 47:08Speaker 01

  Oh my god. It lit, yeah, it glowed.

• 47:10David Imel?

  That's crazy.

• 47:10Speaker 01

  Like that.

• 47:11David Imel?

  Oh, just glow?

• 47:12Speaker 01

  And it had-

• 47:12David Imel?

  But what did it glow for?

• 47:13Speaker 01

  I don't know, but it's doing stuff.

• 47:15David Imel?

  It is doing stuff.

• 47:15Speaker 01

  I gotta re-watch my review. This is old. This is 13 years old.

• 47:18David Imel?

  So old.

• 47:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, but yeah, it did lit up. It turned off when the laptop is off, or it would light up with notifications or something on the back. So that's, that's the thing I would like them to bring back.

• 47:27David Imel?

  I mean, the big question here is like, when I have my laptop closed, I'm like, done with it, you know what I mean? I don't need to like, see notifications on my laptop. I already have my phone for that. But this is potentially gonna be their big Android Chrome OS merger.

• 47:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:41David Imel?

  OS, which means that maybe it will have a lot more direct compatibility with your phone.

• 47:48Speaker 01

  Yes. Have you ever had this moment where you pull out your laptop to use it? And you open it and it's got 2% battery and it's about to die? And you're like, dang, I wish I knew it was about to die.

• 48:01David Imel?

  Oh.

• 48:01Speaker 01

  Well, you know how you'd know?

• 48:02David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 48:03Speaker 01

  Is if at 10%, it just subtly, softly glowed red, just sitting there, closed. You'd go, ah.

• 48:08David Imel?

  I like that.

• 48:09Speaker 01

  Appreciate that communication laptop.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  Okay, am I crazy?

• 48:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 48:14Speaker 02

  You used to, you used to be able to do that on MacBooks.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  What would glow?

• 48:18Speaker 02

  No, no, no, there was a button on the bottom of the MacBook that you could hit, and then it was sort of like the battery tester. Am I crazy?

• 48:24David Imel?

  Is that true?

• 48:24Speaker 01

  When you say bottom, you mean?

• 48:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:26Speaker 01

  The bottom? Under it?

• 48:28Speaker 02

  I gotta research this. I'm having like a, a-

• 48:30Speaker 01

  Nothing wrong with the bottom.

• 48:30David Imel?

  That doesn't sound like a Mac. I don't remember a button on the bottom.

• 48:33Speaker 04

  There was a glowing Apple logo on the back of some of the early MacBooks.

• 48:36David Imel?

  Yeah, just a glowing white logo.

• 48:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, just a glowing white logo.

• 48:39David Imel?

  Yeah, but it never had any functionality other than just think so.

• 48:42Speaker 04

  That's exactly what I want from my Chromebook. When the battery's about to die, use more electricity.

• 48:47David Imel?

  Well, it's a tiny, tiny amount.

• 48:50Speaker 04

  I know, I'm joking.

• 48:50David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm just like, what other use case? I guess maybe you could use it to invoke Gemini. Like if it's, because at the end of the day, they just want all of your devices to be endpoints for Google Assistant, for Gemini, you know? So if you have your laptop sitting on your desk and it's your most nearby device and it has like always listening or something.

• 49:10David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  If you can control your home.

• 49:12David Imel?

  Is that a crazy thing? So like, what if, you know how a lot of laptops sometimes have like slightly thicker displays and they've put like compute in the top section of it sometimes? Like there'll be like a...

• 49:22Speaker 02

  I'm not crazy. This existed.

• 49:23Speaker 01

  Oh, I do remember that.

• 49:25David Imel?

  What computer?

• 49:25Speaker 04

  The battery indicator.

• 49:26Speaker 02

  Unlike the pre 2012 MacBooks, there was a button on the left side of the computer that if you hit, it would do, these like LEDs would light up until your battery percentage. I'm not crazy.

• 49:36David Imel?

  That's cool.

• 49:36Speaker 04

  On the left side?

• 49:37David Imel?

  Where were the LEDs though?

• 49:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, where's that?

• 49:38David Imel?

  Where were the LEDs? The LEDs were also on the side.

• 49:41Speaker 01

  Oh, oh, that's the, okay, the metal ones that, yeah, it's like a sort of a flush button with like five dots that would all light up.

• 49:49David Imel?

  That's cool.

• 49:50Speaker 01

  I don't, wow, that's a good callback. I didn't remember that at all.

• 49:52David Imel?

  That is cool. I should bring that back.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  So yeah, the idea of like a Gemini thing, what if there's a little bit of compute that stays on even when you close the laptop?

• 49:59David Imel?

  Always listening.

• 50:00Speaker 01

  So it is like a little always listening, little tiny computer SoC or phone SoC or something and you can still ask it, hey, G, and the speakers are still in there. They're gonna be muffled, but they could still respond.

• 50:10David Imel?

  Totally.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  That could be a thing.

• 50:11David Imel?

  I think that'd be sick. Or it could be side firing speakers or bottom firing speakers, so you could still hear it.

• 50:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:16David Imel?

  Yeah, I mean, Apple has been quietly adding Thread radios to all their devices, right? I feel like Google could like also start adding all of these multifunctional radios and stuff to their devices.

• 50:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:31David Imel?

  And they want you to have as many access points for Gemini as possible because they want you to use it in as many places as possible.

• 50:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, they want us to use it all the time.

• 50:38David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 50:39Speaker 04

  Was it Nest that had a Thread radio in like a thermostat or something that they just turned on after X amount of years?

• 50:45David Imel?

  It was the HomePod as well. Yeah, the HomePod was silently carrying a Thread radio for a long time. Yeah. Yeah.

• 50:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:52Speaker 02

  There was an Apple product that did that too, but not with Thread.

• 50:55David Imel?

  It was the thermometer.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  No, an Apple product released with a radio that they didn't turn on until a year or so later with a firmware update.

• 51:02David Imel?

  Wasn't it the? I thought I made a video about the...

• 51:05Speaker 02

  It was the second generation iPod Touch that shipped with a Bluetooth radio that they didn't announce or turn on until like a year into the...

• 51:13David Imel?

  That's crazy.

• 51:14Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 51:15David Imel?

  That's...

• 51:15Speaker 02

  I really hope I remember. I'm like, my brain is filled with these like 2010 Apple products right now. I have to go double check all of them.

• 51:22David Imel?

  That's really funny. Oh, iPod Touch though. Okay, yeah, I guess it makes sense. I pictured my first iPod, which was like the tall nano. Yeah. Uh, that one with Bluetooth would be crazy. It would be wild. You could probably do it now. So yeah, I mean, that's exciting. It doesn't take a lot to please tech reviewers. You just need to give us the RGB lights and that's it. Yeah. You know? Unfortunately, I am easy to please in that way. Indeed. Indeed. All right, what is this headline about? Yeah, speaking of people who are not easy to please. Yeah. Uh, Motorola in India is suing, um, social media platforms and dozens of content creators over things that were said about the company. Not a good look, but what, what are the details? Cause maybe I'm missing something.

• 52:06David Imel?

  Yeah, so it's seeking takedown of content and broader restraint for what it deems false or defamatory material related to their devices. It specifically called out that it didn't like that people had been publishing videos of their phones catching fire, um, which it said were fake. It was saying that these things were fake, but it wants to restrain people from suing and publishing this content, including reviews, videos, comments, and boycott campaigns. So this is the prime, uh, example of the Mandela effect, right? No, no, no, what's the, if you hide something? Streisand effect. Yeah, Streisand effect. I had not heard about any Motorola phones catching on fire. Yeah. And now I'm curious if they're real or not. Yeah.

• 52:51David Imel?

  Seems like they're insisting that they're not, but here we are. There was someone that quoted like last week, it was like, there's two ways to respond to criticism. One is to make your product better and one is to make it worse. By, you know, getting aggressive. So yeah, it alleges that there are hundreds of posts across social media that show Motorola products in a false and defamatory way. And it says that it did this lawsuit in the interest of public safety, which doesn't make a lot of sense. India is Motorola's second biggest market, which makes up about 20% of its global market share. And you know, like, obviously, people on social media, especially big phone fans are can be pretty over the top sometimes.

• 53:35David Imel?

  But stopping people from publishing negative reviews is not a good look. It's a very bad look.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:43David Imel?

  And it it sort of tracks that they're suing them in India because I think that there are probably looser like freedom of speech laws there. Just hope that this does not happen because, you know, I don't know, it's bad. It's bad to repress speech.

• 53:58Speaker 04

  When I read this, I kind of, it kind of reminded me of all the different ways that like CEOs just respond to things. So like, this reminded me a lot of Carl Pay with Nothing because that's a company that has turned negative feedback into content in an interesting way. Like, we will occasionally talk bad about Nothing products. And there are three things I know to be true in life, which is death, taxes, and that Carl Pay will turn that into a YouTube video. And just make a bunch of views. Like, they turn it into content in a way that allows him a platform to respond without suing creators into oblivion. So I think like, that's an interesting way of going about it, and Motorola should pay attention.

• 54:40David Imel?

  Yeah, they're owned by Lenovo, as you remember, so.

• 54:43Speaker 04

  True.

• 54:43David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 54:44Speaker 04

  I did not remember that.

• 54:45David Imel?

  Oh.

• 54:46Speaker 04

  Completely forgot.

• 54:47David Imel?

  I will remind you. And yeah, it's just, it's just not a good look. You shouldn't repress people's speech, and that's bad. So we'll have to follow that lawsuit and see if anything actually comes from it. There's one other big story here.

• 54:57Speaker 01

  Speaking of following something.

• 54:59David Imel?

  I'm gonna talk about basketball. So I hope you're proud of me.

• 55:05David Imel?

  Steph Curry, you know, the king, as you know, we in the basketball industry call him.

• 55:10Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 55:10David Imel?

  The king is LeBron. Is that really?

• 55:13Speaker 02

  There is another player.

• 55:14Speaker 01

  I'll stop you when you say something. I'll stop you if you say anything crazy, but you're on the right track so far.

• 55:18David Imel?

  Okay, well, he, you know, plays for the Golden State Warriors. You know, he's been playing for them for a while. He's so good with his accuracy. When he shoots the ball, it usually goes in the circle, the hoop. It's kind of crazy how many times he can get it in there.

• 55:32Speaker 01

  Yep, yep.

• 55:33David Imel?

  So, also was an investor in Palm. I met him during my Palm briefing, and he was wearing it as a necklace.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:45David Imel?

  Anyway, the NBA is very deeply rooted in Google sponsorship. They do a lot of pixel stuff. Famously, a couple of the NBA stars like use pixels every day, and they say they actually like it, even though people don't think they do. They, they

• 56:00Speaker 01

  They really do.

• 56:00David Imel?

  They really maybe do.

• 56:03Speaker 01

  They really do.

• 56:04David Imel?

  They really say that they do.

• 56:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:07David Imel?

  And we have been hearing these rumors of a new Fitbit coming out that's supposed to compete with Whoop, because remember, here on the Waveform Podcast, we hate Whoop.

• 56:16David Imel?

  Down with that company.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  We're Whoop haters.

• 56:19David Imel?

  We are Whoop haters certified. Andrew's not here to defend himself. And so

• 56:24Speaker 02

  Andrew famously loves Whoop.

• 56:25David Imel?

  Loves. I mean, he Andrew's obsessed with this company.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  We always dunk on Whoop, and he's like sticking up for them, but yeah, he's not here for that.

• 56:32David Imel?

  So if you don't know what a Whoop is, it's imagine a smartwatch without the watch. It's the watch band, but it's thicker. And the idea is like you don't want to wear a smartwatch, but it gives you deeper analytics about your body. It's got all these different data points, and they're suing like a smaller app company because they think that they stole a lot of their data points. It's very stupid. But

• 56:52Speaker 02

  It's like if you, if you wanted all the benefits of an Oura ring, but you needed people to know you were wearing an Oura ring.

• 56:58David Imel?

  Yeah, it's kind of a status thing.

• 57:00Speaker 01

  Well, you can wear a Whoop under your sleeve or like hide it if you want to.

• 57:02David Imel?

  Yeah, you gotta get like an accessory for that, I think, to wear like on your chest.

• 57:06Speaker 04

  I'm gonna do a weird pivot here because over the weekend, Man City beat Arsenal, so it was a very hard day for me as an Arsenal fan.

• 57:14David Imel?

  Fan. But at the end of it, Holland, who's one of the great players in Man City, ripped off his shirt, ran onto the field, wearing a boot band. And I was like, he's allowed to play with that? How?

• 57:25Speaker 01

  Well, is that my, are they not allowed to play with those things?

• 57:27David Imel?

  I don't know.

• 57:27Speaker 04

  I guess so.

• 57:28Speaker 01

  It's under, if it's under your shirt, yeah, no, that's fine. But they can't play it if it's over your shirt?

• 57:32Speaker 02

  Guys, I don't know if you know this, you play soccer with your feet. So I think, I think.

• 57:36Speaker 01

  Okay, so I play, I play a sport where before every game, they line all the players up, they do the national anthem, and then they go down, the refs go down the line, and if any player has on any wristband or jewelry or necklace or anything that could get caught on a finger and like pull.

• 57:50David Imel?

  That makes sense.

• 57:51Speaker 01

  They tell you to take it off.

• 57:52David Imel?

  Okay.

• 57:53Speaker 01

  So you can wear it under your sleeve, you can wear it somewhere where it's not gonna get caught. But then if it is out, you gotta take it off.

• 57:58Speaker 04

  I have a question about that.

• 57:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:00Speaker 04

  I currently have a bracelet that I cannot take off.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 58:03Speaker 04

  What happens in this?

• 58:03Speaker 01

  They'll, they will take tape and tape it to your wrist.

• 58:07Speaker 04

  Oh, interesting.

• 58:07Speaker 01

  So I can't get caught with like a finger.

• 58:09David Imel?

  Like, can you take it off?

• 58:10Speaker 04

  Because it was one of those things where they like zap it in place and it's there forever.

• 58:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:14Speaker 04

  It's one of those.

• 58:14David Imel?

  You did that?

• 58:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 58:15Speaker 01

  There's other people that have that, yeah. They're like, or they just refuse to take it off or whatever it is, so they just get it taped on.

• 58:20David Imel?

  Whoa.

• 58:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:22David Imel?

  You did that to yourself? Never taken it off.

• 58:25Speaker 04

  It's just a bracelet.

• 58:26David Imel?

  It's like being chained to something for your whole life.

• 58:28Speaker 04

  Kind of.

• 58:30Speaker 01

  To what?

• 58:30David Imel?

  To the chain.

• 58:32Speaker 01

  I guess.

• 58:33David Imel?

  Anyway, that's like a tattoo, bro. Okay.

• 58:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:35David Imel?

  Well.

• 58:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, I have none of those.

• 58:40David Imel?

  Okay, fair point, fair point. Anyway, back to Steph Curry, you know, the king, as we like to call him in the basketball world.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  I don't wanna stop you. I'm gonna keep, yeah, it's fine.

• 58:49David Imel?

  You know, he shoots a lot of hoops, so he's got, he's been wearing this unidentified Fitbit device for many months.

• 58:59Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 58:59David Imel?

  You know, there have been articles that have been coming out that's just like little glimpses of him wearing it. But then Kellen at Droid Life, shout out to Kellen, one of the most OG phone YouTubers there are.

• 59:09Speaker 01

  OG legend.

• 59:10David Imel?

  In 2012, I had push bullet notifications for every article that Kellen wrote. It's pretty sick. He's still going strong. He decided to get a little bit obsessed with this because he's a huge basketball fan. And, you know, as we, as we all are here in the way for podcast.

• 59:25Speaker 04

  He's specifically a Trailblazers fan because he's in Portland.

• 59:28David Imel?

  That's tough.

• 59:28Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah, that's, that's pretty tough.

• 59:30David Imel?

  Well, he analyzed a ton of Instagram videos, YouTube videos, and there was even one other thing. Just a lot of videos on the internet.

• 59:39Speaker 01

  And Getty Images.

• 59:39David Imel?

  Getty Images of Steph Curry over the last, like, since February, effectively. And he was able to catch multiple, multiple, multiple glimpses of Steph Curry wearing this unannounced Fitbit band that is supposed to compete with Whoop. It is much thinner than a Whoop. It kind of just looks like a Pixel Watch band, but it's slightly thicker at the top. And Steph Curry never wears it during the games. I'm guessing for the same reason that you can't wear bracelets and stuff.

• 1:00:06Speaker 01

  He never wears it visibly during the games, but there could be a chest strap or some random

• 1:00:10David Imel?

  Yeah, maybe.

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  accessory.

• 1:00:11David Imel?

  Maybe.

• 1:00:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:12David Imel?

  Um, but there are multiple screenshots of him wearing it out and about. There is even an image that Kellen caught where he has an app open on his phone that appears to be sort of like a new redesign.

• 1:00:23Speaker 01

  Oh, I watched that video. I didn't even catch that. Damn. That's good.

• 1:00:28David Imel?

  That's crazy.

• 1:00:28Speaker 04

  Hiding in plain sight.

• 1:00:29David Imel?

  Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I imagine that, you know, it's been months since this has been kind of being leaked. And I feel like Google's leaking this on purpose at this point.

• 1:00:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. Honestly, this to me is the best case scenario. I imagine he's invested in Fitbit or some, some, like, a lot of Golden State Warriors players, California team, are connected with a lot of California companies. So there's a lot of tech connections. So I wouldn't be shocked if he's invested in this company or something like that.

• 1:00:55David Imel?

  But maybe that's just Google.

• 1:00:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. Or they have some partnership, whatever it is. And so Steph organically deciding to wear this for weeks and weeks before it comes out is, is the best possible endorsement of the product.

• 1:01:10David Imel?

  Right.

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  To me, it's, it's

• 1:01:11David Imel?

  It's probably in his contract.

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  Elite athlete chooses to use this product before it comes out, before he's probably going to get paid to do a commercial or whatever about it. He's going to be able to actually say he's been using it.

• 1:01:20David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  And probably actually, like, really uses it and cares.

• 1:01:23David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  So I, yeah, it's just free promo for them. Google stuff leaks already anyway all the time. So here we are.

• 1:01:30David Imel?

  Yeah. Um, but it looks good. I, personally, I would love something like this that gives you all the analytics, but that you can put on any watch. Cause it looks like it's just a watch band size. With a slightly thicker top.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  Well, the puck, that's where it's measuring everything.

• 1:01:44David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah, but if they were able to put that in the bottom part, and then you could just wear a regular watch on the top, I think that would be sick.

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  Or maybe even like clip a watch to it. I don't know how that would work, but I guess you maybe could.

• 1:01:57David Imel?

  Yeah, maybe.

• 1:01:57Speaker 01

  You could just sew a watch.

• 1:01:58Speaker 04

  My problem with putting it on the bottom of a watchband is that not all watches are meant for like sports and stuff. Yeah. So if you're like wearing a watch that you don't want to smash into a wall, you know?

• 1:02:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:08Speaker 04

  I wouldn't want to have my tracker on the bottom of that.

• 1:02:11David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:11Speaker 04

  Having an option would be nice.

• 1:02:12David Imel?

  Yeah. Well, it looks very googly. It kind of is just like this. I don't even know. Do you know how to describe? Can you describe this? It's like a...

• 1:02:19Speaker 01

  So it looks like the, what's that Apple Watch band called? It's like the Trail Loop.

• 1:02:25David Imel?

  Trail Loop.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  It looks like a Trail Loop band, but without the Apple Watch, and instead it just has this small puck under it. If you've seen Meta's wristband for their glasses, it kind of has like roughly that amount, and it's on the back of your wrist where the watch would be.

• 1:02:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:39Speaker 01

  So no screen, no time. Again, it seems weird to people who don't use it, but a lot of people don't want to screen on their wrists, so it just has long battery and it just sits there and measures your stuff, and you check the app when you want to see the info and...

• 1:02:49David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're finally going to compete in that space.

• 1:02:52David Imel?

  It's funny how out in the open he has been with this, though. Like, there's a image of him giving an interview.

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, press conference.

• 1:02:58David Imel?

  Press conference, and he just got it on.

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  Love that.

• 1:03:00David Imel?

  Crazy.

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:01Speaker 04

  Have you guys used the new Fitbit Coach thing?

• 1:03:04David Imel?

  No, but you've been using it, right?

• 1:03:06Speaker 04

  I've been using it. I really like it.

• 1:03:08David Imel?

  Really?

• 1:03:08Speaker 04

  But to this product's credit, it pretty much only works with Fitbit devices and/or my Pixel Watch.

• 1:03:17David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:17Speaker 04

  And I don't wear my Pixel Watch every day because it's a Pixel Watch.

• 1:03:21David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:22Speaker 04

  It's like, it's fine, but it's not the one that I'm like, I'm usually wearing like a real watch. So this is like, I'm actually very interested in something like this because Fitbit back in the day to me was this. It was just a random little tracker that pretty much everyone would walk into Best Buy and buy. You can swap out the bands and everything like that. Then they started getting like a little bit more smarter and smarter and all this stuff. But like the core of what Fitbit always was to me was just this little tracker. So if I can just have the little tracker with these in-depth... Analytics that you get from something like the Pixel Watch?

• 1:03:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:53Speaker 04

  I think that would be pretty interesting.

• 1:03:54Speaker 01

  That's a win.

• 1:03:55David Imel?

  Probably have a longer battery life, too.

• 1:03:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, when I, when I worked at Intel, like, they, they were only like 30 bucks at the time to get the like little pedometer Fitbits that you could literally put in your shoe.

• 1:04:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:04Speaker 01

  And then people would be able to, and then we had like walking competitions, which is so funny, because it's like, who can get the least work done?

• 1:04:12Speaker 01

  Which nobody at Intel gets work done, anyway.

• 1:04:13Speaker 04

  Allegedly, this is going to be called Fitbit Air. That's what I think Newton 9 to 5 Google found that.

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 1:04:20Speaker 04

  Can we come up with different names? That's my other.

• 1:04:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:22Speaker 04

  I think this is, there's Airs.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  Air means light. Pro, Gromax.

• 1:04:26David Imel?

  Foop.

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  Fitbit. See, the thing about Fitbit, Fitbit's a good name for a product, but it's their company name now.

• 1:04:32David Imel?

  Google Fitbit.

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  So you can't call it the Fitbit. That would be a good thing to call this.

• 1:04:36David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  You gotta call it a Fitbit something.

• 1:04:38David Imel?

  Fitbit Loop?

• 1:04:39Speaker 01

  Maybe? That could, yeah.

• 1:04:42David Imel?

  Fitbit Band?

• 1:04:43Speaker 01

  They'll think of something.

• 1:04:44David Imel?

  They'll think.

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  This Steph Curry. Also, the king is LeBron, so that's just the one correction I'll have.

• 1:04:48David Imel?

  So what do we call him?

• 1:04:48Speaker 01

  We can call him the chef.

• 1:04:50David Imel?

  The chef?

• 1:04:51Speaker 04

  I thought he was the goat.

• 1:04:52Speaker 01

  That's, I mean, he's some people's goat, but.

• 1:04:55Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. He's, he is frequently referred to as Chef Curry.

• 1:04:59Speaker 01

  Why?

• 1:04:59David Imel?

  Because.

• 1:05:00Speaker 02

  Because his full name is Chefon.

• 1:05:04Speaker 01

  And he'd be cooking out there.

• 1:05:06David Imel?

  Because he's cooking.

• 1:05:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. Chef Curry with the pot.

• 1:05:11David Imel?

  Is that real? Is that a real thing people say?

• 1:05:13Speaker 01

  Trust me. Yes. Yeah, no, it's great. All right. Last thing I want to do before we take a quick break is I want to show you guys something, and I just want to make sure I'm not crazy before I crash out about this, so check Slack.

• 1:05:24David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:05:25Speaker 01

  Check the Waveform Slack channel, and I want you to open this Dropbox link and just watch this quick, minute-long video. And, uh, once you're done watching it, just let me know.

• 1:05:37David Imel?

  Is there sound?

• 1:05:38Speaker 01

  You don't need the sound.

• 1:05:39David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  You can see this is the Oppo Find X9 Ultra.

• 1:05:42Speaker 02

  David, you want to describe what you're seeing?

• 1:05:43Speaker 01

  All right, so this is the Oppo X9 Ultra, Find X9 Ultra case.

• 1:05:50David Imel?

  Um, whoa. Okay, so it's the phone and then it's like a giant accessory case. Looks like it's for photography stuff. The case that is next to it is like insanely rugged looking. Um, they slap the case on the phone. It makes it basically an otter box.

• 1:06:05Speaker 04

  It looks like a small rig had a baby with an otter box.

• 1:06:08David Imel?

  They put, oh, there's like a front attachment that locks in. So it's like fully encased in this case. This is like an outdoor, crazy outdoor setup. Okay, now he's got basically what looks like a gimbal attachment or something. Oh no, it's a shooting grip attachment that plugs into the phone. Looks very ROG, to be honest. Um, and then they attach a filter attachment to it. So they can put like an ND filter, a variable ND on there. That's kind of cool. Yeah, it's variable ND. They're spinning it around. Okay, now they-

• 1:06:42Speaker 04

  I can't wait to hear what Marquez is gonna say.

• 1:06:43David Imel?

  Now they attach a cooling fan. Oh, now they attach a, a left-hand grip. For some reason. Uh, oh. Uh, now they attach a cold shoe. Oh. Okay, now they're attaching a quick release for a, okay. It was for a tripod and now it's, oh my God, what is this? Oh, there's a giant Hasselblad box. Oh no, does this get crazier? Oh no!

• 1:07:09David Imel?

  Oh no! Okay, there's a really, really big Hasselblad lens attachment that comes with like a tripod mount. You have to put a lens adapter on in order to, oh my God! Oh my God! This looks so insane! What is this?

• 1:07:30Speaker 02

  The final render at the end doesn't have the lens tripod mount on it.

• 1:07:35David Imel?

  Yeah, it comes off, it's a collar, it comes off. So this just looks like a Terminator situation.

• 1:07:40Speaker 04

  Please tell me they sent this to you and you have all of this in the other room.

• 1:07:43David Imel?

  Okay, so- What in the world? So I watched this and my first thought is, what are we doing though, for real, for real? I don't have a price tag on this, but I'm assuming if you are willing to buy this flagship phone, eight, nine, ten, a thousand dollar phone-

• 1:08:00Speaker 01

  Whatever. And you're also going to buy the lens and the, and the battery grip and the, the cold shoe and the cooling fan and the lens adapter and the lens and the tripod and all this stuff to go shoot with your phone. You clearly really care about the quality of the work that you're making. So why are you using your phone still? Spend all of that on a cheap camera that will do better than whatever you were about to shoot on your phone. This is not a diss on the, the camera on the phone. It's a really good phone camera. But physics is still real and you can still get much better footage out of a dedicated camera. Plus better audio, plus better codecs, et cetera. So I think there's a Goldilocks zone to how much it's acceptable to improve your phone camera.

• 1:08:45Speaker 01

  Before you're just going too far and you should just use a camera. You know, is that valid? I think that's, this is too far.

• 1:08:53David Imel?

  I think that the only acceptable use of like really, really trying to improve your phone camera as much as possible is if you are going to make phone native content. Right? Cause the, the biggest annoyance of using a dedicated camera to shoot content that is going to be on phones. Is that you have to move all of the data to your phone eventually. So the one plus for this, the oppo for this is that, uh, I guess they're the same company. Is that, you know, if you're going to shoot like a reel or something, all the footage is right there. If you're editing on your phone, it's right there. But, but then at that point, it's like, this is clearly doesn't look like it's for reels. This looks like it's for like a feature film.

• 1:09:30Speaker 01

  They've got it sideways.

• 1:09:31Speaker 02

  This is going to be so hard to, like you have to take all of this off your phone to begin editing.

• 1:09:37David Imel?

  This is, unless you do it on your, you edit.

• 1:09:39Speaker 01

  This is like a 90 second process to like.

• 1:09:41Speaker 02

  I'm saying to even hold your phone in a way that's comfortable to edit.

• 1:09:43David Imel?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:09:44Speaker 02

  The footage, you would need to disassemble this whole package.

• 1:09:47David Imel?

  Instead of just blipping the photos to yourself. Like this is like, um, yeah, it's like you decide you want to get this shot or however many shots or this whole shoot you're about to do. You have to go through this like two minute process of like assembling your phone rig. Which valid, you have a rig, you're going to get pretty footage, but you could spend two seconds turning on a regular camera and just start getting footage. And I just think, yeah.

• 1:10:10Speaker 01

  This is, this is in the valley between like good phone footage and, and regular camera footage.

• 1:10:15David Imel?

  You know how you have that analogy of like VR headsets and like glasses and how they're both trying to move towards each other?

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:22David Imel?

  This is like smartphone and camera.

• 1:10:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:25David Imel?

  Trying to move towards each other, except the, the smartphone went way too far over the line.

• 1:10:29Speaker 01

  It really has.

• 1:10:29David Imel?

  Cause cameras have, they, they are now cameras you can buy that are just all in one. They have really good mic, like pickup mics. They have really good quality.

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  Stabilization.

• 1:10:37David Imel?

  They're small. They have really good stabilization.

• 1:10:38Speaker 01

  Good codecs.

• 1:10:39David Imel?

  It's just all in one, like really quick, short form content or YouTube video content cameras.

• 1:10:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:45David Imel?

  And that's moved towards the smartphone line, but this just went way over the line.

• 1:10:50Speaker 01

  I think it's way over. Yeah.

• 1:10:51David Imel?

  This is crazy.

• 1:10:52Speaker 01

  It's insane.

• 1:10:53David Imel?

  Other problem is if you spend like, you're gonna spend like $800 on the accessories alone on like, it's probably a thousand dollar phone. And you spend $800 on the accessories and then you can never upgrade your phone.

• 1:11:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Once you move phones, you're like, well, I guess I don't use any of this stuff anymore.

• 1:11:08David Imel?

  Useless now. Like it's.

• 1:11:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:09David Imel?

  At least with a dedicated camera, like them, the glass is always going to be relevant because they always use the same amount. Most of the accessories can be used on any camera because it's all universal. No, this can only be used with the Oppo Find X9 Ultra.

• 1:11:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:22David Imel?

  Which, by the way, weird, small rig cage aside, the phone is beautiful.

• 1:11:28Speaker 01

  The phone is really good without all the stuff on it.

• 1:11:31David Imel?

  Yeah. When you take all the other, other stuff off, the phone itself is like aesthetically gorgeous.

• 1:11:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. And by the time you watch this, our video on it is up. It's called, so this is peak smartphone? Because smartphones are just, we've gotten to the point where they're so good that they're good at everything already. And any differentiating factor is really just preference.

• 1:11:50David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:51Speaker 01

  I think that's my take basically on this. And so when you look at like, what do we want from a good smartphone screen? Well, I don't know. I just want it to be bright enough and good looking enough that I can see it all the time and it just looks good all the time. Okay, well, it is. It's a high refresh rate, super bright OLED that gets to 144 Hz and will go down to 1 Hz and has high-frequency PWM dimming and it just looks awesome all the time. So, success.

• 1:12:13David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:13Speaker 01

  What about battery? Oh, I don't know. I just hope it never dies on me. Okay, 7,000 milliamp hours and silicon carbon and it's like it'll charge at 100 watts if it ever dies. All right, mission accomplished. You kind of go down the line. We've done everything. Cameras are the last thing. They're trying this stuff. They're putting huge 200-megapixel sensors in there. They take good smartphone photos all the time, but they're never gonna take good, you know, high-level camera photos. So it's just like, this is good smartphone photography and there it is.

• 1:12:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:42Speaker 01

  It's a great phone.

• 1:12:42Speaker 04

  I have a question for you.

• 1:12:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:44Speaker 04

  If the accessories and the lens and everything was able to be adjusted to fit future phones, would that change your opinion on it?

• 1:12:51Speaker 01

  That would improve it, but it would still feel like you're, you're kind of spending too much time on... Because the thing about a smartphone camera is it's so convenient to just pull out the camera, open the app, and get the shot or just get the videos. That's the strength is versatility. So if you're throwing away all the versatility to get this super-good quality, then why not just get the super-good quality? You know what I mean?

• 1:13:17David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:17Speaker 01

  Like, just get the camera. And it's actually more versatile again because it takes 2 seconds to boot it up and just start shooting. So you're taking the strength of the smartphone, which is versatility, you're throwing it all away to like clip this case on, clip the lens mount on, clip the lens on, get the collar on the lens, do all this stuff, and by that point, you, you're getting better footage, but like, you could just get a camera.

• 1:13:38David Imel?

  But it probably costs the same amount as like an $800 all-in-one Sony Vlog.

• 1:13:41Speaker 01

  Which is gonna beat this.

• 1:13:43David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:43Speaker 01

  So, yeah.

• 1:13:44David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:46David Imel?

  That's pretty insane.

• 1:13:47Speaker 01

  All right, I'm glad, I'm glad I'm not alone in this.

• 1:13:48David Imel?

  That's pretty insane.

• 1:13:49Speaker 01

  Anyway, go watch that video. It's the Oppo Find X1 Ultra. Really good phone, obviously great cameras, but people are going too far.

• 1:13:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:56Speaker 01

  All right, we'll take a quick break, and before we do that, one more time, trivia.

• 1:14:01David Imel?

  Something that's universal across every waveform episode.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 1:14:05David Imel?

  Nice.

• 1:14:05Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 1:14:06Speaker 04

  Where in the world is Tim Cook from?

• 1:14:10Speaker 01

  Dang. Do you need the city? City and state, please. Okay. I think. I think. I think I know. I know, but you guys said stuff before that makes me think I'm wrong now.

• 1:14:19Speaker 02

  I have a good, a good hint if you need it later.

• 1:14:22Speaker 01

  I'll take a hint. The Georgia.

• 1:14:23Speaker 02

  No, I'll wait, I'll wait to the, uh.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  I think the hint has something to do with someone in the studio here. I don't think we need it. No? All right, then I'm not gonna be right. This is Chicago. All right, well, we'll either be right or we'll learn something. That's it. We'll be right back.

• 1:14:47Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. So AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from. But when that context is scattered across tools like threads and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying kind of blind. That's the problem Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all of these pieces together from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more, so nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot. Assign them work directly or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping.

• 1:15:31Speaker 01

  Learn more at jira.com. That's J-I-R-A dot com.

• 1:15:35Speaker 07

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 1:16:04Speaker 07

  Are you tired of hearing about business, tech, and finance from the bros? We are the Tiger Sisters, a top business podcast with the Vox Media Podcast Network. Tiger Sisters releases every Monday and we decode money, power, and love.

• 1:16:19Speaker 06

  And who doesn't love all those things?

• 1:16:20Speaker 07

  We are the internet's Wall Street and Silicon Valley big sisters.

• 1:16:24Speaker 06

  Tune in every Monday for late night sister talk meets boardroom strategy.

• 1:16:28Speaker 07

  Check out Tiger Sisters on YouTube, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Tiger fam.

• 1:16:35David Imel?

  Welcome back, everybody.

• 1:16:36Speaker 04

  Welcome back.

• 1:16:36David Imel?

  Welcome back.

• 1:16:37Speaker 02

  Hey, welcome back.

• 1:16:38David Imel?

  I like that.

• 1:16:38Speaker 02

  Marquez has to get on a plane in an hour and a half.

• 1:16:40David Imel?

  An hour and a half.

• 1:16:41Speaker 01

  I'll be on the plane in an hour and a half.

• 1:16:42David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:16:42Speaker 01

  It'll be great.

• 1:16:43David Imel?

  Well, yeah, I guess so. Okay. We're gonna speed through these because Marquez has to get on a plane in an hour and a half. He a nerd. So, there's, uh, we talked about the GoPro cameras last week. It was pretty crazy. They have new cameras out. They use the Mission 1, there's a Mission 1 Pro, and there's a Mission 1 ILS, and a lens system. Uh, we now have prices for these GoPros. Ellis is very excited about using them for

• 1:17:01Speaker 02

  Yee-haw!

• 1:17:02David Imel?

  lenses. He's yee-hawing over there. So, now, we got the prices. The Mission 1, $5.99.

• 1:17:08Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:17:08David Imel?

  The Mission 1 Pro, $6.99.

• 1:17:10Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:17:11David Imel?

  And the Mission 1 Pro ILS, $6.99. But, these are all discounted by $100 if you have a GoPro subscription, which I didn't know what that meant.

• 1:17:19Speaker 02

  And what does that subscription get you, David?

• 1:17:20David Imel?

  I had to look it up. It is, uh, cloud storage. It kinda makes automated little videos for you based on your footage.

• 1:17:27Speaker 01

  Um, a GoPro subscription?

• 1:17:29David Imel?

  Yeah, it's kinda crazy.

• 1:17:30Speaker 02

  It's a warranty program, too.

• 1:17:32David Imel?

  It's also a warranty program.

• 1:17:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, insurance.

• 1:17:34David Imel?

  Insurance type program.

• 1:17:35Speaker 01

  You know how there's like the beastification of YouTube?

• 1:17:38David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:38Speaker 01

  Is this the Apple-ification of tech companies? A GoPro subscription?

• 1:17:42David Imel?

  Everyone needs recurring revenue.

• 1:17:43Speaker 01

  You can, it's basically like you're a hardware company, but you need more recurring revenue. So, you just bundle together some things that would work well with your hardware. I'm not saying this is a bad idea, but wow, a GoPro subscription.

• 1:17:52David Imel?

  I think it's a bad idea.

• 1:17:53Speaker 04

  There's no money in selling something once.

• 1:17:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:56Speaker 04

  You gotta sell it 100 times.

• 1:17:57Speaker 02

  I don't know how the subscription works, but if the camera is able to auto-upload to this cloud storage.

• 1:18:03David Imel?

  Yeah, no, I'm sure it's very clever.

• 1:18:04Speaker 02

  GoPros find themselves in situations where they become former GoPros often, you know? And so, being able to know that footage is in the cloud, not bad.

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. A GoPro subscription.

• 1:18:15David Imel?

  Yeah. I guess. Uh, yeah.

• 1:18:18Speaker 01

  What do we think? Wait, what's so fu- there's a Mission 1 and a Mission 1 Pro.

• 1:18:21David Imel?

  Pro.

• 1:18:21Speaker 01

  What is the $100 difference between those cameras?

• 1:18:23David Imel?

  It's mostly based around the types of, uh, like the frame rates that they can record. So, like 4K 240 FPS versus 4K 120. You get 8K 60 on the Pro versus 8K 30 on the regular one.

• 1:18:36Speaker 01

  So, the Pro has more processing power, can Handle higher frame rates.

• 1:18:38David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:39Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:18:39David Imel?

  So that's the main difference.

• 1:18:40Speaker 01

  I still really want to shoot with them. I just gotta see how good the footage is. Cause we just showed you that insane rig with the phone with the Oppo and like, this is gonna be, you could get one of these and probably get really good footage from it. And it'll just be like a one button click.

• 1:18:53David Imel?

  Yeah, I would rather have this than the phone.

• 1:18:55Speaker 01

  So yeah, we'll, we'll have to get some and shoot with them and see.

• 1:18:57David Imel?

  Much smaller.

• 1:18:58Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:18:59David Imel?

  Uh, we got some iPhone colorful, colorful iPhone Pro rumors. So instead of just the-

• 1:19:05Speaker 01

  Oh, I love this.

• 1:19:06David Imel?

  Yeah. So the rumors are that the iPhone Pro is gonna come in this light blue.

• 1:19:10Speaker 01

  Don't care.

• 1:19:11David Imel?

  Pantone 2121.

• 1:19:13Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:19:13David Imel?

  Dark cherry.

• 1:19:14Speaker 01

  Kinda don't care either.

• 1:19:15David Imel?

  Uh, what is wrong with you, Marcus? This is crazy.

• 1:19:18Speaker 01

  Keep going.

• 1:19:18David Imel?

  Uh, silver.

• 1:19:19Speaker 01

  Don't care.

• 1:19:20David Imel?

  Uh, dark gray.

• 1:19:21Speaker 01

  Hell yeah. Hell yeah. That looks, and you saw the renders.

• 1:19:26David Imel?

  Yes.

• 1:19:28Speaker 01

  Yes. Yes, please. Give me a dark neutral.

• 1:19:32Speaker 02

  You're like a Staten Island mom picking out the color of her car, like, ew, any semblance of saturation, get it out of here.

• 1:19:39Speaker 01

  It's just, it's just the best looking one. And you know what's funny? These are actually very popular car colors. Silver, light blue, dark cherry, which is kinda like the burgundy car you see everywhere, and then black. The only other popular colors I've seen are like white and beige. Uh, yeah, no, this is gonna look good.

• 1:19:55David Imel?

  I think the silver actually looks sick.

• 1:19:57Speaker 01

  The thing is, Ellis, I shoot a lot of car videos for autofocus on the phone.

• 1:20:00Speaker 02

  I get it.

• 1:20:01Speaker 01

  And the color of the iPhone reflects in every screen in the car every time.

• 1:20:05David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:06Speaker 01

  And I've had an orange iPhone for many of these videos. And I pointed at that CarPlay screen and there is just orange hitting me back in the camera lens. And I can't take it anymore. I need, and the blue one, it's close, but just give me a black one.

• 1:20:16David Imel?

  That dark cherry purple is pretty fire, not gonna lie.

• 1:20:18Speaker 01

  It's, it's, it's, I-

• 1:20:20Speaker 04

  Look, I had two questions here.

• 1:20:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:22Speaker 04

  One, does this mean orange is dead?

• 1:20:24Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:20:24Speaker 04

  Forever? Like, that's it?

• 1:20:25Speaker 01

  It'll come back in like five years.

• 1:20:27David Imel?

  Purple is the new orange.

• 1:20:28Speaker 04

  So this is, nice. So this is like a, that was a celebrity color.

• 1:20:32Speaker 02

  Wait, no, literally, oh no, it doesn't work. I would say orange is the new black, but black is the new orange.

• 1:20:36Speaker 01

  Black is the new orange.

• 1:20:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:38David Imel?

  That's even better. Well, I don't think it's black.

• 1:20:41Speaker 04

  Second, is the space gray name dead? Is that still available?

• 1:20:45David Imel?

  For iPhone? You can buy it on the MacBook is still space gray.

• 1:20:48Speaker 04

  MacBook is still space gray.

• 1:20:49David Imel?

  Isn't it not space black now? Oh, it might be space black.

• 1:20:51Speaker 02

  No, I thought space black is a different color, though.

• 1:20:53David Imel?

  Yeah, you're right.

• 1:20:54Speaker 02

  Space gray is.

• 1:20:55David Imel?

  I have the space black MacBook Pro. Space black, right? Yeah, same. I think it's called space black now. But they did not also. Cause space is, you know what's funny? We talked about this in an earlier episode. Space is gray.

• 1:21:06Speaker 02

  No, space is.

• 1:21:08David Imel?

  Mocha. Cosmic latte. It's not fully black is the point. Cosmic latte, we talked about this. The average color of the universe. What is this, what is this Mac iPad iPhone Air color? Is it just, it's not black? It's probably just black.

• 1:21:20Speaker 02

  No, they would, they would never call something black.

• 1:21:22David Imel?

  I don't know, they might.

• 1:21:23Speaker 02

  They would call it

• 1:21:26Speaker 02

  ambient stillness. I don't know, that was bad.

• 1:21:28David Imel?

  Okay, so the MacBook Pro is space black.

• 1:21:31Speaker 04

  So is the iPhone Air.

• 1:21:32David Imel?

  iPhone Air is space black?

• 1:21:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:21:34David Imel?

  So.

• 1:21:34Speaker 04

  That's it, right?

• 1:21:35David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:36Speaker 04

  That's why I saw the leak and I was like, oh, okay. Space gray is back. And then I read it and I was like, wait.

• 1:21:40David Imel?

  Well, they could still call it space gray.

• 1:21:41Speaker 04

  I mean, they could.

• 1:21:42David Imel?

  But what is this supposed to be? Dark gray?

• 1:21:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's just dark gray. Like it's black, dark gray, whatever. But like, I likes, I don't know, maybe I've been like apple pilled, but I liked space gray as a name. I was like, that, that's cool.

• 1:21:53David Imel?

  I feel like it's, it's too reminiscent of the Johnny Ive era for me. I feel like we need to move past it, you know? Interesting. Yeah. Um, okay. So now that Marquez has to board in one hour and 20 minutes, uh, we got to talk about this Huawei Pura X Max foldy boy that they just launched.

• 1:22:12Speaker 02

  Huawei.

• 1:22:13David Imel?

  Huawei? Because they want to get ahead of Apple.

• 1:22:16Speaker 02

  They want to get a Huawei. No, that doesn't work. They want to get way Huawei ahead.

• 1:22:21David Imel?

  Huawei ahead of Apple. Yes, we first saw rumors and leaks of this last week, but now we have specs and pricing. It is a short boy. It's a short king, 5.4 inches, um, cover display with 3,500 nit brightness. So very short phone. It's definitely the passport style, short king. 7.7 inch internal display, 3,300 nits, both support 120 Hz L L T P O. It's got that homegrown Kirin 9030 Pro chip. 5,300 milliamp hour battery. Wish that was bigger. Yeah. 66 watt wired charging and 50 watt wireless charging. 50 megapixel main, 50 megapixel telly, 12.5 megapixel ultrawide. I just love

• 1:23:02Speaker 01

  Triple cameras.

• 1:23:03David Imel?

  That they're triple cameras. The iPhone's not gonna do that and that's really sad because I really wish they would. Supports Huawei's M Pen 3 Mini Stylus, so you can use it as a little notebook thing. $1,600 for the 12GB 250GB version. 256GB version. $1,800 for the 512GB version and $2,000 for 16 gigs of RAM and 1TB of storage. Really expensive phone, for sure.

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  As will the rest of these.

• 1:23:31David Imel?

  As will the rest of these be. So, you know, um, yeah, it looks just like kind of the iPhone is gonna look probably, but it's got more cameras.

• 1:23:39Speaker 02

  You left one thing out about this exciting new announcement from Huawei.

• 1:23:42David Imel?

  The colors?

• 1:23:44Speaker 02

  No. That, um, unlike most Huawei products, uh, the Verge article, I think, that reported, whichever article is linked in the show doc, said that it is unclear whether it'll come out outside of China. So we might actually be able to get a global, quote unquote, global minus United States version.

• 1:24:01David Imel?

  If it comes to, yeah, yeah, it could come to European.

• 1:24:04Speaker 02

  Or it could not.

• 1:24:04David Imel?

  Or it could not.

• 1:24:05Speaker 02

  Unclear.

• 1:24:06David Imel?

  That's true.

• 1:24:06Speaker 02

  I hope it does.

• 1:24:07David Imel?

  You know what is clear?

• 1:24:08Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:24:09David Imel?

  The thing that we do at the end of every trivia, I mean, at the end of every podcast episode.

• 1:24:13Speaker 02

  I guess, yeah, there's not much more we can really say about this at the moment.

• 1:24:16David Imel?

  No, no. Unless there's been breaking news. There hasn't been. I don't think.

• 1:24:22Speaker 02

  But I do need to address something real quick because, uh, certain video viewers may have been wondering why I'm literally decked out head to toe in Philadelphia 76ers gear. Head to toe is not an exaggeration. I've got the socks.

• 1:24:40David Imel?

  Oh, they're on your head and on your toes. This man is committed.

• 1:24:42Speaker 02

  Literally head to toe. And that is because, oh my God, my leg is cramping from that move. Wow, I need to stretch more. Tonight, the Philadelphia 76ers play game two against the Boston Celtics. Last game, we lost by 30 points, and I realize that is my fault. I did not do enough to cheer on this team. So for the next 15 seconds or so, this is a Philadelphia 76ers podcast. Tyrese Maxey is a dog. Kelly Oubre is a dog. VJ Edgecombe, dog. These boys are gonna take us all the way to the NBA Finals, baby. And if you don't believe, you're not a friend of mine. Go Sixers forever!

• 1:25:24Speaker 01

  Really, I'm really sorry about that. What are we gonna do when they get swept?

• 1:25:29Speaker 02

  Bro, if they get swept, you know, honestly, like, I thought about it. I was like, how will I emotionally recover from a sweep? Because I have been through, Philadelphia 76ers fans, I will make this statement, have been through more than any other fanbase in the NBA, especially in the last 10 years. The amount of like insane stats that are just emotionally punishing like-

• 1:25:49Speaker 01

  Every sports fans believes this about their own team, by the way.

• 1:25:52Speaker 02

  I know, but have you, our star player has gotten sick for four out of the last seven, like, not injured, sick.

• 1:25:59Speaker 01

  That's a bummer.

• 1:26:00Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? For four, like, like, the fact that we continually have to play the Boston Celtics, both of whom star players, we had the ability to draft and didn't.

• 1:26:09Speaker 01

  You could be a Knicks fan.

• 1:26:12Speaker 02

  Okay, but the Knicks owner isn't literally in the Epstein files. Like, I, there's, there's just like so many things that it's just like, this fan-

• 1:26:19Speaker 01

  Could be a Rockets fan.

• 1:26:20Speaker 02

  This is what being a Sixers fan is all about. Any of us could jump ship at any point, but we want the chaotic ride, baby. We want Kelly Oubre getting hit by a car two weeks after joining the team. Okay, we want Joel Embiid showing up. No, Kelly Oubre, please don't get hit by another car. But it's like, I, I love you, Kelly Oubre, man. Your eyes are so beautiful. Tsunami Poppy, you're like literally my favorite guy. Please, just stay off the bicycle in Center City for a little bit.

• 1:26:50Speaker 02

  What's Tim Cook's favorite soda pop?

• 1:26:53Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Wait, wasn't this the second question?

• 1:26:55Speaker 02

  This was the first question.

• 1:26:56Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:27:04Speaker 01

  I don't even know sodas.

• 1:27:07Speaker 02

  You know.

• 1:27:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I figured you'd know that intrinsically, Marquez. You love K-Bob Day and Hunters. Yeah, but that doesn't mean I name sodas. I don't know anything about sodas. Here we go. I thought of one.

• 1:27:23Speaker 02

  Who wants to read first?

• 1:27:24Speaker 01

  I, I'll read mine.

• 1:27:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:26Speaker 01

  Orange Crush. Yeah. That's a real soda, right?

• 1:27:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:32David Imel?

  I wrote Pepsi.

• 1:27:34Speaker 02

  It is a Pepsi product, though.

• 1:27:36Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 1:27:36Speaker 02

  Because according to the Wall Street Journal, Tim Cook's favorite soda is Diet Mountain Dew. The least Tim Cook soda imaginable.

• 1:27:45Speaker 01

  I didn't even know they made Diet Mountain Dew.

• 1:27:47Speaker 02

  And of course, like Andrew is not here today.

• 1:27:50Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 1:27:52Speaker 04

  All right. Follow-up question. Where is Tim Cook from? This is a Tim Cook podcast today for obvious reasons.

• 1:27:59Speaker 02

  My hint is that it is arguably the most hilarious city in America for a phone executive to be from.

• 1:28:07David Imel?

  Good hint.

• 1:28:08Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:28:09David Imel?

  Good hint.

• 1:28:09Speaker 01

  I'm wrong. I can't think of, I can't even think of an answer for that.

• 1:28:13David Imel?

  I feel like that'd be Weed, California.

• 1:28:15Speaker 02

  That would be pretty funny, but this specifically for a smartphone executive.

• 1:28:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:19Speaker 02

  The way funnier.

• 1:28:23Speaker 04

  Flip him and read. What do we got?

• 1:28:27Speaker 01

  I don't know. Paris, Texas.

• 1:28:31David Imel?

  I wrote Dallas, Texas. Is it Houston?

• 1:28:35Speaker 04

  No. So before I tell you how wrong you guys are, quick update on the score. Marquez with 21, Andrew with 22.

• 1:28:43Speaker 01

  I'd like to stay at 21.

• 1:28:44Speaker 04

  David in the lead with 26. The answer, Mobile, Alabama.

• 1:28:49David Imel?

  I thought I said it was the South and you guys said it wasn't.

• 1:28:51Speaker 02

  No, you said the Midwest.

• 1:28:53David Imel?

  Oh, what's the difference? Where's the bar?

• 1:28:56Speaker 01

  How far south you are?

• 1:28:57Speaker 02

  The bar's in both places, actually. Famously.

• 1:29:00Speaker 01

  Mobile. Oh, I get it.

• 1:29:02Speaker 02

  Mobile, like, because it's spelled mobile.

• 1:29:03Speaker 01

  Mobile. Mobile.

• 1:29:04David Imel?

  That's pretty funny.

• 1:29:05Speaker 01

  Alabama.

• 1:29:06Speaker 02

  That's good, right?

• 1:29:07David Imel?

  That's good.

• 1:29:07Speaker 02

  Good hint. Good hint from Ellis.

• 1:29:10David Imel?

  I, you know?

• 1:29:11Speaker 01

  Well, we learned two new things about Tim Cook. Maybe next time we'll learn some new things about John Ternus. Or even some other CEOs, who knows? Could get really fun. Definitely stay tuned for your regular scheduled programming and that bonus episode that Andrew is in exactly half of. And, uh, yeah. Go watch the Oppo Find X9.

• 1:29:29Speaker 02

  This is actually a technology jersey, too.

• 1:29:32David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:29:33Speaker 01

  It's got the threads in it or something?

• 1:29:34Speaker 02

  Because it's an AI jersey.

• 1:29:35Speaker 01

  An AI.

• 1:29:36David Imel?

  AI jersey?

• 1:29:38Speaker 01

  No more puns, Ellis.

• 1:29:39David Imel?

  Is that Allen Iverson?

• 1:29:40Speaker 02

  It's Allen Iverson. That's AI, baby. All right, we'll be right back. See you guys.

• 1:29:44David Imel?

  Wait, I just want, real quick? Subscribe so you can turn us into one of the top podcasts in the world. Sorry, I had to do it.

• 1:29:56Speaker 01

  I'm sorry.

• 1:29:59Speaker 02

  Waveform is produced by Adam Molina and Ellis Riven. We are part of the Vox Media Podcast Network and our intro outro music is by Vane Sail. And go Sixers!

• 1:30:08David Imel?

  Let's go. Bingo. Sick. All right, get on your plane, I guess.

• 1:30:14Speaker 02

  All right.

• 1:30:22David Imel?

  Streetlight just announced the Oppen will be out before June 12.

• 1:30:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, but what about GTA 6?

• 1:30:27David Imel?

  I don't know about that.