How Casey Putsch Built the Most Efficient Car in the World, and Why the EPA Hates Him for It

Casey Putsch designed a diesel car that gets 104 miles per gallon – New York to LA on one tank – and goes zero to sixty in five seconds. But no car company wants to make it. Why is that? (00:00) Why Is the Auto Industry Dying? (11:23) How Putsch Built One of the Most Efficient Cars in the World (15:52) Dieselgate and EPA Corruption (20:00) The Problem With Electric Vehicle Mandates (30:44) Why the Media Is Pretending Putsch’s Car Doesn’t Exist Paid partnerships with: Jase Medical: Go to https://Jase.com and use code TUCKER at checkout for a discount Eight Sleep: Get $350 off the Pod 4 Ultra at https://EightSleep.com/Tucker Hillsdale College: Take a free online course today at https://TuckerforHillsdale.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 0:30Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, so here's my theory. The death of the US auto industry was a bigger deal than, I think we realized, maybe a harbinger, hopefully not, but perhaps a harbinger of what happens to the country going forward. So Detroit dies, and people are like, "Oh, Detroit's such a mess." My wife is from there, so I've been there a lot. And, but you never thought that would happen to the rest of the country?

• 0:53Speaker 02

  Oh, no, we're going similar ways.

• 0:55Tucker Carlson?

  We are. That's exactly right.

• 0:56Speaker 02

  I live in the greater Toledo area, and it's baby Detroit.

• 0:58Tucker Carlson?

  Toledo, exactly. Home of champion Spark plugs.

• 1:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, no longer.

• 1:22Tucker Carlson?

  So I guess the question is, if we want to prevent this from spreading, like the cancer that it clearly is, I think it's important to know the cause of it. So why did the auto industry, which was the most important non-defense industry we had, why did it die?

• 1:40Speaker 02

  I would say largely regulation and the nature of trying to find more profit in where you ship things. It was a lack of pride in having a workforce in the future tomorrow. And those are the two things I would stick with. Because since, in my opinion, I've been a car guy for a long time.

• 1:55Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, you didn't mention the unions. Everyone blames the unions for the destruction of Detroit.

• 2:01Speaker 02

  I think that's a secondary symptom. I mean, that's, that's a big thing, but I think culturally it has to do more with where we're going, what, what happened. I mean, the automotive industry right now, if you look at new cars, I, I don't own a new car. The newest vehicle I own is early 2000s.

• 2:17Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 2:17Speaker 02

  The newest. Yeah. And honestly, I've been thinking like that's

• 2:19Tucker Carlson?

  And you're a professional car guy and you have no

• 2:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I, I, I work on all my own stuff from exotics to building race cars, helping students building airplanes to, to vintage stuff. Like I know automotive history and honestly, kind of the sweet spot for cars to daily driver, the 1980s and 1990s.

• 2:34Tucker Carlson?

  What?

• 2:34Speaker 02

  We've just gotten worse since then.

• 2:37Tucker Carlson?

  Well, in, in what ways?

• 2:39Speaker 02

  Consumer culture. You know, they try to find new ways to make money, give something to buy a new model year, but cars haven't really gotten any better since the 1990s. They, they're coming in more like a cell phone. And then you get more and more and more regulation, which just stymies the automotive industry into building just the one thing. It's why all the cars look the same. That's why there's no real innovation. That's why anything interesting ends up being wildly expensive. And then the two things that are always used as, shall we say, the scapegoat is either the environment, the EPA or safety. But it's not always about that. And if you're really worried about

• 3:15Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, wait, those are scapegoats?

• 3:17Speaker 02

  Well, not scapegoats, but reasons to force things into be a certain way. Because if you speak up and question anything, they'll always say, environment, safety. It seems like that's always the way. But we're always just quagmire in this regulation and direction.

• 3:32Tucker Carlson?

  Well, you're blowing my mind. So I get, I, I mean, getting older is a process of realizing how many of the lies you've internalized and believed. And I guess if you had asked me when I woke up this morning, what destroyed Detroit, I would say, I mean, I'm not actually even that against unions, to be honest with you, but I would say, well, everyone says the unions and EPA and safety. Ralph Nader

• 3:52Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:53Tucker Carlson?

  And the EPA and the UAW.

• 3:55Speaker 02

  True.

• 3:55Tucker Carlson?

  But no.

• 3:56Speaker 02

  True.

• 3:57Tucker Carlson?

  It's deeper, you're saying.

• 3:58Speaker 02

  Well, it is. And okay, you know, I'm an individual. I build stuff. I think about the nation, individuals, community, my family, my friends, like, we want a car that gets us there, that we can fix, that we can afford, right? But it's not what we're making. Another thing which I want to mention, two points. The other thing that's happening nowadays is we don't really innovate or make anything new anymore that people can afford, really. And I'm finding another, it seems like a symptom across culture of just everything now is about money from one pocket to another. It's not about really creating something new or building tomorrow. And I started to see that in the automotive industry with the nature of hybrids to electric. They have a purpose, but they're

• 4:42Speaker 02

  not a solution for everything. But the political push and powers are trying to make it a solution for everything. And I look at this and go, no, no, no, no, this isn't about, this isn't about what's best for everybody, or even the environment, or anything. This is money from one pocket to another and a power play.

• 4:57Tucker Carlson?

  What does that mean, money from one pocket to another?

• 5:00Speaker 02

  So, the, it's kind of a, it's a deeper discussion that led to when I built what I called the Omega car, which I built that high efficiency diesel car that I thought would be more recyclable, lower environment impact, affordable, and a good car and a direction to go. And if I may, can I just back up a second on what I saw? So, you know, my teens and twenties, I'm just a normal car guy. I liked fast cars and going on dates with pretty girls. That's pretty much all I cared about.

• 5:30Tucker Carlson?

  So, fast cars and fast women?

• 5:32Speaker 02

  Well, they say in Kentucky, what is it? They say beautiful horses and fast women? No, I meant beautiful women and fast horses, something like that. But, no, that was kind of all I cared about. But my grandfather always talked about politics and things going on in the world. And while I didn't really care so much to look into it, things stuck with me.

• 5:46Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 5:47Speaker 02

  And I remember in, was it 2008, 2008, when Obama was running, people are all excited. I'm like, okay. And I remember watching all the presidential stuff. That was kind of the first time I really started paying attention to politics when I was a younger guy. And we're watching the Democratic National Convention and Obama's talking. And I remember, and I remember thinking, this guy's full of crap. That's just my gut feeling. I didn't, I didn't know where it came from. I didn't, I didn't really know that much of politics, but I'm just like, this guy is full of crap.

• 6:17Tucker Carlson?

  You didn't think he was Black Jesus?

• 6:19Speaker 02

  No, no. I mean,

• 6:20Tucker Carlson?

  You sound like a racist.

• 6:22Speaker 02

  I don't care.

• 6:25Speaker 02

  I don't care.

• 6:26Tucker Carlson?

  That's the spirit.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  So I just thought he was full of crap. And so I'm listening, get to the point and he goes, and I'll help Detroit retool. So the energy efficient cars of tomorrow will bill here for the sake of the nation and world. I'm like, bullshit. You're not gonna, this isn't, you're not doing a Kennedy speech like we're going to the moon before the decade is out. You're not gonna do it. I, I just, I just, it just, it ticked me off and I've remembered it to this day. And of course, we have the.

• 6:50Tucker Carlson?

  Why did you know he was not gonna do it?

• 6:53Speaker 02

  Cause Detroit's not gonna change. He's not gonna change that. Like a politician changes their own oil, let alone know how a car works or the industry or what to do with it.

• 7:01Tucker Carlson?

  Fair.

• 7:01Speaker 02

  Respectfully.

• 7:02Tucker Carlson?

  Fair, fair. No, with no respect, I would say.

• 7:04Speaker 02

  No, I, you know, and, and I can think of some, you know, military leaders and such saying things that I'll be a little kinder about. We don't want to take advice from, you know, pantsuits in Washington. It's like, what do they know about it respectfully? But things like that go across the board. So I'm thinking, he's not doing anything. Well, the other thing that interesting happened was the financial crisis, 2008, 2009, right? Now, I didn't fully understand what was going on. That again, I cared more about going on dates and fast cars than politics and things going on at the time. But the family business we had was a small town, public golf course in the Midwest, you know, 18 holes, worked our butt off. My father worked seven days a week, six o'clock in the morning, 10 o'clock at night, every day throughout the entire of the season. So we worked. I know, like being in a small town, everybody makes funny, oh, you're rich, you just sit on the golf course all day.

• 7:49Speaker 02

  I'm like, no, we're changing oil in like diesel tractors and backlapping mowers and mowing and putting on baguettes and doing family business, right?

• 7:56Tucker Carlson?

  What is it to backlap a mower?

• 7:58Speaker 02

  Oh, sorry. That was, um, so if you mow a fairway or a green.

• 8:02Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 8:02Speaker 02

  It's not a rotary blade that cuts by kind of like whacking the, uh, it's actually, it's a reel which comes through and slices on a blade.

• 8:10Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  Well, they get, they get dull. And so you have to sharpen them and it's dirty and you beat up your knuckles and that's kind of the work you actually do in the winter with the golf.

• 8:19Tucker Carlson?

  By hand, like with a file or?

• 8:21Speaker 02

  Oh, no, um, you have to run them backwards, um, with, um, a dirty compound with like grit on it and have to adjust it.

• 8:28Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, you lap it like you lap a valve.

• 8:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, you lap it, exactly, exactly. Thank you.

• 8:31Tucker Carlson?

  Sorry to interrupt.

• 8:32Speaker 02

  No, it's all right. I just kind of bring that up because that, that was my world at the time. We worked hard and we saw that. But at that time, I started to see how it was affecting people in Little Tiffin, Ohio, uh, on a daily basis, loans, housing loans, business loans. And I also saw how that affected eventually when the family was thinking of selling the business.

• 8:54Speaker 02

  You couldn't get lending for something like that. And I started to see how that that hurt everything, but where I was going with it in relation to the overarching things with the automotive industry. So now we're bailing out the automotive industry? Tax dollars? Huge amounts of money? Okay. Huh. Paying attention. And I'd lived in Columbus, Ohio at the time. Head of my little shop, working on vintage race cars and things like that. And riding my motorcycle around. And after we were bailing out the automotive industries, I kind of remember back and I'm like, so I wonder, is Obama gonna try to make everything efficient now? Are they gonna do anything? And I see us, we just kind of doubled down on making bigger trucks and muscle cars and things, which I have to tell you, I love big trucks and muscle cars and fast cars.

• 9:38Speaker 02

  Okay, like if you can afford the fuel and do what you want, don't, don't get in my way, you can pry my sports cars out of my cold, dead hands. I agree. Okay, don't. But, you know, doesn't mean I don't necessarily want something that could be better for as a daily driver, or I can't think of something that might be more efficient. So I was noticing that. And I'm thinking, this is, this is wrong. Something's wrong here. And just in what I was doing and, you know, researching various materials and thinking of building cars, and it's kind of what I do, you know? I, I started to realize there's a myriad of ways that we can mass produce cars, automobiles, that will be less toxic, less environmental impact, cheaper, more efficient than what we're doing. Because in a sense, all of our cars are stamped metal boxes with chairs bolted in them. Yeah.

• 10:22Speaker 02

  We've been doing this since the mid 1930s. We have. Not much has changed. And it's been a long time. And I'll say this also, which I think you might enjoy as a history guy. So SR71 Blackbird, right? CIA spy plane, Mach 3. They came up with that in the late 1950s. We had to go to the trouble of getting all the titanium, I think, from Russia at the time, which required a zillion shell companies and orchestration just to get the material to build it. And we built an aircraft effectively in the late 1950s, 1960, that'll do Mach 3 and can map hundreds of thousands of miles of the earth's surface and before GPS existed, be

• 11:03Speaker 02

  able to plot the stars through broad daylight and through clouds in the late 50s. And we're still making cars like the 1930s now. I think that's BS.

• 11:15Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  So.

• 11:16Tucker Carlson?

  But to be fair, you've also seen the death of innovation in aviation as well.

• 11:21Speaker 02

  That's true, too.

• 11:22Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, the 747 came out in 1969.

• 11:25Speaker 02

  True.

• 11:25Tucker Carlson?

  Tell me we've made it, and I was born that year, 55, almost six years ago. When was the last time we built a plane that cool, 1969?

• 11:32Speaker 02

  We haven't, and to be fair, there's a lot of things that we still, like the B-52 bomber. It's still around. The buff is eternal, they joke, you know? And so there's a lot of great designs from back when that are still perfect designs now and can be upgraded. It doesn't mean that we have to have innovation for innovation state. Some things just work.

• 11:49Tucker Carlson?

  Mm hmm.

• 11:50Speaker 02

  But sometimes you need new things.

• 11:53Speaker 02

  But as a younger guy at the time, I was frustrated by all this. And I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna build a car. I got a point to prove. And my thinking at the time was it can't be electric because nobody knows what the heck a kilowatt hour is back then. We're not accustomed to thinking like that. We think miles per gallon. How fast is it at? Zero to 60, you know, things like that. That's kind of the two things that matter most to people. And can you use this? And how much does it cost? So it's like, okay. I want to build a car that'll be representative of something that can be mass produced that, let's say it costs about $20,000 or less. I made it diesel, turbo diesel. So I looked around for what I felt was about the most efficient engine reasonably available and built the car. Now, I said something like 11 years ago on video, so I can prove it.

• 12:38Speaker 02

  I said it will get over 100 miles a gallon and it will do zero to 60 in under five seconds. Now, I built the car. I even showed it at a private like car event with sports cars and exotic cars and told everybody about my concept. But when I got it all together and done, I realized I don't have a voice. Like, what am I gonna do with this thing? If the world doesn't know it exists and nobody hears about it, it doesn't exist.

• 13:01Tucker Carlson?

  You felt like Nikola Tesla at this point, I'm sure.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  Perhaps. I don't, maybe, you know, he's an interesting character.

• 13:08Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  Certainly. And I sat on it. I just put it in my garage for a better part of a decade. Because I didn't have a voice. But other things going on in life. I was doing my nonprofit Genius Grad, which I really believed in because we can go into some big problems in the American educational system.

• 13:24Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  Especially higher education. I think we're stymieing our youth, the families in the future. And I think it comes from predatory lending and loans you can't default on. And I think the schools are creating this vacuum monster that is not the real world with majors that are not providing jobs and creating an environment for political radicalization. But that's another topic. But the reason I say that is-

• 13:46Tucker Carlson?

  Everything you just said is obvious and it's crazy that it still exists. But let me just back up to the vehicle itself.

• 13:52Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 13:53Tucker Carlson?

  Without getting boring on the subject.

• 13:55Speaker 02

  Now it's coming back to that.

• 13:55Tucker Carlson?

  But what, explain how you get 100 miles to the gallon on diesel and it goes 0 to 60 in under five seconds. Like how, what is that? How big's the motor? Like, tell us about the car.

• 14:05Speaker 02

  Let me ask you a question.

• 14:06Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 14:07Speaker 02

  So I don't, I don't know what you drove here, but let's pick your average car or SUV.

• 14:11Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:11Speaker 02

  Put it in neutral. How hard is it to push it?

• 14:15Tucker Carlson?

  Pretty, pretty hard.

• 14:16Speaker 02

  Pretty hard, right?

• 14:17Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 14:17Speaker 02

  Like, I know it sounds silly, but when you work on cars, if you spend your day pushing around cars, you start thinking about how efficient they are. Look at, look at a car and SUV going down the road or a semi. How aerodynamic do you think that is?

• 14:30Tucker Carlson?

  Not super aerodynamic.

• 14:32Speaker 02

  No.

• 14:32Tucker Carlson?

  I drive a Silverado, not aerodynamic.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  There's nothing about our cars that are remotely efficient at all. So how do you, how do you get that? You just make the actual car, not so much the drivetrain. You're not looking for a magic bullet. Everybody wants a magic bullet. You make the car more efficient.

• 14:49Tucker Carlson?

  Like the-

• 14:50Speaker 02

  Lower coefficient of drag, somewhat lighter weight where you don't need weight. You just less rolling resistance. You, you make it actual efficient, good design. We don't do that with the automotive industry anymore. And the reason I chose diesel is because people would understand that. Diesel's also a very flexible fuel. We can make biodiesel. You can make diesel effectively out of what's left over from the meatpacking industry.

• 15:14Tucker Carlson?

  The grindmaking industry.

• 15:15Speaker 02

  For sure. Agriculture, you name it. And, and this is fascinating too, because, and I gotta get into why I talked about the car, but since that time, I got word back from people kind of more in traditional automotive media and whatnot, no one would talk about it or write about it. And I'm, kind of pissed me off. Because back when I was in a concept and I just talked about it a little bit on my YouTube channel, some places would report about it. But why is it when it was just a concept and a YouTuber was trying to do something efficient and like maybe eco-friendly and whatnot, they'd write about it. But then when it actually did what I said it was gonna do, they wouldn't.

• 15:47Tucker Carlson?

  It actually gets 100 miles to the gallon?

• 15:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, for first time out, I didn't even have all the fairings on it. I haven't even tuned it. It was 104.72 miles to the gallon, just driving through the countryside normally with stop signs and turns and such. Just jumping in it without even tuning it more. The first time I took it out, we were just idling and doing hard pulls and everything else. I looked at it, I'm like, we just got like 88 miles to the gallon and we're not even trying.

• 16:09Tucker Carlson?

  That's crazy.

• 16:10Speaker 02

  Well, and the other thing-

• 16:11Tucker Carlson?

  Considering gas is pretty, it was like three bucks or something-

• 16:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:14Tucker Carlson?

  Right here, yeah.

• 16:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's expensive, it's more expensive in Europe. And like, like, okay, I have some gas guzzlers for sure. I like V12s and stick shifts and straight pipes.

• 16:23Tucker Carlson?

  So tell me about the engine in this vehicle.

• 16:25Speaker 02

  It's largely conventional. It's turbo, which is good for diesel because it allows you some flexibility-

• 16:31Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 16:31Speaker 02

  To, you know, cruise more, but if you want to make power, you can crank in the boost and do some things to make it efficient. You know, and I experimented even with some catalytic converters and such that will even be better. So there's nothing crazy about the drivetrain. There's no magic bullet there.

• 16:46Tucker Carlson?

  What about-

• 16:47Speaker 02

  The other thing, I gotta point this out. That drivetrain, when I started, had 130,000 miles on it. It's no spring chicken.

• 16:54Tucker Carlson?

  What was it from? What'd you pull it out of Volkswagen?

• 16:56Speaker 02

  Volkswagen. Pre-Dieselgate. Dieselgate's an interesting thing to talk about, too. But, um-

• 17:01Tucker Carlson?

  What's Dieselgate?

• 17:03Speaker 02

  That was the big scandal that Volkswagen went through with allegedly cheating their emissions in tests.

• 17:09Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I remember this, yes.

• 17:10Speaker 02

  That was back in, uh, 2015, I think.

• 17:14Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 17:14Speaker 02

  That was, that was a big scandal. Which is interesting, because in looking back on it now, it seems to tie into more with not regulating a car company so much for the betterment of all, but an attack. It's the way it kind of looks like to me.

• 17:33Tucker Carlson?

  An attack on Volkswagen.

• 17:35Speaker 02

  I would say diesel because Volkswagen was in, I don't know about now, but certainly was the best and most efficient. The engine I used was from back in like 2000 when they made it.

• 17:44Tucker Carlson?

  Volkswagen.

• 17:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, good engine. And it's manual, more efficient that way.

• 17:50Tucker Carlson?

  The transmission's manual?

• 17:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, manual, less parasitic losses. It's just, it's

• 17:53Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 17:54Speaker 02

  Cheaper to produce, gets better miles to gallon. And, um, you know, back in the day, um, sports cars, if they were manual, would have better zero to 60 times and such.

• 18:03Tucker Carlson?

  No longer true.

• 18:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, no longer true. Our automatics have gotten a lot more interesting and whatnot. But, um,

• 18:08Tucker Carlson?

  But manual transmission still makes for more efficient driving?

• 18:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, because there's less parasitic drag. There's less losses in the drivetrain.

• 18:16Tucker Carlson?

  Huh. Interesting. Like meaningfully more efficient?

• 18:20Speaker 02

  Well, especially in that time in the 2000s, probably, um, could be five to seven miles to gallon on the highway.

• 18:28Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, wow.

• 18:28Speaker 02

  Maybe even, maybe only like three, but it's still a lot. And when you consider millions of cars over years, that's

• 18:33Tucker Carlson?

  For sure. Or even your car.

• 18:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it, it doesn't all have to just be about like, oh, we have to do this for sake of environment. These are costs that hit people's pockets.

• 18:42Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I, I wasn't thinking about emissions even.

• 18:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:45Tucker Carlson?

  So, um, well, that's amazing. So, and what about, what about emissions on this vehicle? I'm trying, I'm trying to get to like

• 18:51Speaker 02

  In regard to mine or the whole scandal?

• 18:52Tucker Carlson?

  Specifically.

• 18:53Speaker 02

  It's, it's the basic stuff that diesel would have. I mean, you've got a pretty serious catalytic converter. You've got the, uh, exhaust gas regulation and such. And that, without getting an overly nitty gritty, diesel does have some things about it that

• 19:11Speaker 02

  the EPA likes to go after. But it's kind of strange and I'm curious to see what happens in the future. So you probably, I'm sure you saw this, um, Supreme Court ruled, uh, differently on the Chevron deference.

• 19:23Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  Which I'm really fascinated to see how that changes the nature of the way laws are interpreted.

• 19:30Tucker Carlson?

  So the bottom, the, the question before the court was, can federal agencies create legislation? When the constitution says, no, Congress creates the laws.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  Right. On how it's interpreted.

• 19:43Tucker Carlson?

  Right. But for generations, the federal agencies, including EPA, but, but all of them, from the Department of Education to the Department of Defense, have come out with regulations that have the force of law that no one ever voted for and that no elected official had a hand in. So it's anti-democratic, right?

• 20:00Speaker 02

  That's, that's probably the reason why so many friends complain about the ATF. I think they're pretty good at making laws.

• 20:06Tucker Carlson?

  Well, the ATF has all kinds of other problems, like shooting innocent people. But yes, no, absolutely.

• 20:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:11Tucker Carlson?

  Um, but they, they create regulations that no one voted on and that no elected official administers. So it's like, as a citizen, I have no recourse. So that's not democracy, that's tyranny.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:23Tucker Carlson?

  Right. So that's, that's the conceptual.

• 20:24Speaker 02

  No, exactly right. Exactly right. And, you know, it's not looking for a, you know, a way around something or a loophole, but like, what is right? Like, what are we actually doing here?

• 20:32Tucker Carlson?

  Also, if you want a law, vote on it.

• 20:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:34Tucker Carlson?

  You know, and the beauty of the Congress is they have two or six years, um, between elections. So they're pretty accountable to voters. And if voters don't like the way they vote, they can turn them out, at least conceivably, right?

• 20:45Speaker 02

  One hopes, one hopes, yeah.

• 20:47Tucker Carlson?

  But the undersecretary of douchebaggery is completely beyond the control of any voter. So like, that's, again, tyranny, right?

• 20:58Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah. And that, that affects things greatly because when you over-regulate things, it, it, it just makes it difficult to innovate or go anywhere.

• 21:07Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 21:08Speaker 02

  You know, and, and the thing of it is, so going back to the car, the car I built, so I mentioned to you, got 104.72 miles to gallon. And I, I video recorded the whole thing because I want to know, what does this thing actually do?

• 21:19Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 21:19Speaker 02

  Because last year was a very important year. It was an election year. Um, one thing that also drove me nuts. So if you look at, so the Biden administration, and even Gavin Newsom's pushing it, electric vehicle mandates, like large electric vehicle mandates. Not like back to the Clinton era when it was like, I don't know, 1% to 2% of vehicles sold by a certain times need to be electric. No, they're big ones. And I had a huge problem with, you know, Biden's administration doing that because I'm like, this destroys innovation. You know, and the other thing you go into, and I don't want to beat up on electric because it, you know, it has its purpose in places. I think all kinds of drivetrains and energy do. And I don't mean that as just like political BS rhetoric. I mean that genuinely, but it's not a Band-Aid fix.

• 22:00Tucker Carlson?

  Well, so how are we going to charge them?

• 22:02Speaker 02

  Our grid? Yeah. How? I tell you this. So I did some math with all this. Um, let me tell you this. So that the next day, I'm coming right back to this point on the math. The next day after I did the initial mile per gallon testing on my car, I did zero to 60 times with it. So I put accelerometers and GPS in this car, also my 93 Dodge Viper RG10, uh, C7 Corvette Grand Sport, and my neighbor's Tesla Model 3 rear-wheel drive with the full charge. My car, that got 104 miles a gallon, beat the Dodge Viper by 2/10 of a second and exactly matched the Corvette Grand Sport and the Tesla.

• 22:36Tucker Carlson?

  Damn.

• 22:37Speaker 02

  That's without like computerized traction control. It's me just driving it.

• 22:39Tucker Carlson?

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• 23:22Tucker Carlson?

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• 24:04Speaker 03

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• 24:49Speaker 03

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• 25:04Speaker 04

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• 25:49Speaker 04

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• 25:57Tucker Carlson?

  So what was 0 to 60 in that?

• 25:59Speaker 02

  Uh, 4.61. And I probably could have done better, but honestly, the tires are over a decade old now because I built the car a while ago and such. But that was real-world driving. And yeah, I gave it. And I got videos of it if you would look me up.

• 26:10Tucker Carlson?

  How did you beat the Tesla?

• 26:11Speaker 02

  It matched the Tesla. But that was only with the Tesla to full charge. It would consistently get a little slower every time as it would lose juice.

• 26:18Tucker Carlson?

  Just because the nature, obviously, of an electric vehicle just gives you massive advantage and...

• 26:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. And the Tesla's simple. You just stick your foot down and computers, that's the best it's gonna do. My, my car would actually probably beat it if I gave it some clever traction control and such in it, to be honest. Um, but that's not, not the point. The point of it is, so I'm like, I'm gonna run some numbers. Just out of curiosity. What, what is the carbon footprint of burning one gallon of diesel? Oh, interesting. Okay, EPA's got numbers for that. Okay. What's the carbon footprint, on average, United States electrical generation, whether it's nuclear, wind, coal, whatever? National average of the carbon footprint of a kilowatt hour of electricity? Say like you're in a perfect world, charging your electric vehicle at home. And then I just did the basic math on, okay, what's the carbon footprint of my car on diesel getting over 100 miles a gallon

• 27:07Speaker 02

  versus the electric car charged at home, national average, over 100 miles? My car beat the electric car. Had a lower carbon footprint. And it has much lower one to manufacture, and it's easier to fix. So that's when I went, okay. I also did some other fun math. Um, respectfully towards coal, I think...

• 27:27Tucker Carlson?

  But, but hold on, just to be fair, can it be turned off by remote by a politician who doesn't like your politics?

• 27:32Speaker 02

  Thank you. No, it can't.

• 27:33Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, it can't?

• 27:34Speaker 02

  No, it can't.

• 27:35Tucker Carlson?

  Then I don't feel comfortable with it.

• 27:36Speaker 02

  Oh, you don't?

• 27:36Tucker Carlson?

  Well, how are we getting control of you?

• 27:38Speaker 02

  You're not. It's gonna stay that way.

• 27:40Tucker Carlson?

  I like your spirit!

• 27:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, thank you for bringing that up. That's very important because... The other thing about-

• 27:46Tucker Carlson?

  I drive a 1987.

• 27:48Speaker 02

  Well done, sir. Yeah.

• 27:49Tucker Carlson?

  For real.

• 27:50Speaker 02

  The, no, I, I get it.

• 27:51Tucker Carlson?

  With a gun in it.

• 27:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, good, good. I, I-

• 27:54Tucker Carlson?

  Sorry, I shouldn't say that.

• 27:55Speaker 02

  I get too excited on this. Like, you remember the days of school, like, you could have a gun rack, because people were reasonable human beings in a community.

• 28:02Tucker Carlson?

  California, we didn't have a lot of deer hunting then.

• 28:04Speaker 02

  Right.

• 28:05Tucker Carlson?

  We had surfboards.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  But you could still, yeah, exactly. But now you can still do it. I kinda, I kinda get my independent spirit. I'm like, I'm gonna put a gun rack in my viper, not because I need it, just because.

• 28:14Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 28:14Speaker 02

  America, you know?

• 28:15Tucker Carlson?

  I totally agree.

• 28:16Speaker 02

  But, and that's the other thing about the electric car. So when I look at it, and all the governmental control, and what it appears to me globally is going on with much of that and the push. And then the other thing that doesn't make any sense. So the Biden administration doing the big electric vehicle mandates and such and push, but excluding Tesla from their meetings at the White House and summit and all that? Really? So what you're telling me is the thing that you want to do with industry and cars and transportation is super important, but not as important as the politics with the guy with the biggest electric car company in the world? I don't like that either.

• 28:50Tucker Carlson?

  They're just criminals. I mean, we know that now. They're crim- that was a criminal organization running our country.

• 28:56Speaker 02

  I know. I, I think a lot of my, my grandmother, who was, you know, married my World War II vet granddad, of course, she always said, "Give him a fair trial and hang him in the morning." And that phrase has been ringing in my mind a lot lately.

• 29:05Tucker Carlson?

  She sounds like my kind of woman. So, but let me, let me just back a little bit. So you create this vehicle in your shop, right?

• 29:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:13Tucker Carlson?

  At home?

• 29:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:14Tucker Carlson?

  Okay. And you think that you could build it for 20 grand? Is that true? Okay, 20 grand. So it gets 104-

• 29:22Speaker 02

  In mass produce, of course.

• 29:23Tucker Carlson?

  At scale?

• 29:24Speaker 02

  Not, not as a prototype.

• 29:25Tucker Carlson?

  Well, obviously. So, but it does, gets 104 miles per gallon. It matches the Tesla off the line. You get to 60 in under five seconds.

• 29:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:37Tucker Carlson?

  So that's like, kind of the dream package, right there?

• 29:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, beats my life.

• 29:39Tucker Carlson?

  And it runs on a readily available fuel that you can buy at any-

• 29:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I only put a, and we have the infrastructure for it.

• 29:46Tucker Carlson?

  Well, yeah, right. You can fill it up at a gas station.

• 29:48Speaker 02

  I only put a five gallon tank in it. Because at 100 miles a gallon, like, I'm gonna need to get out and, you know, have the call of nature or stop at a gas station before. But if I put a bigger gas tank, and I can drive from New York to LA.

• 29:59Tucker Carlson?

  On one tank?

• 30:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 30:04Tucker Carlson?

  Okay.

• 30:05Speaker 02

  Now, I have to point this out because there's lots of smart people watching. They'll get it. Okay, things like crash testing, airbags, climate control, all that jazz. Okay, great. It'll add a few hundred pounds more to it. Maybe it'll make the car a little bit better. But the other thing that happens when you actually develop and build something like that, you tune it better. I still can get those numbers and meet all of those same.

• 30:27Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, so can I just ask, like, at that point, it's like if you invent something that is truly useful and that, you know, at 20 grand-ish, a new Suburban's like pushing 100 grand right now, like the cars are out of control.

• 30:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, who can afford that?

• 30:42Tucker Carlson?

  I couldn't agree more.

• 30:43Speaker 02

  If you're gonna spend that much money on a car, go buy a vintage Ferrari or something, you know?

• 30:46Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know that I've ever bought a new car in my life, and I don't plan to. But, but people want to, whatever, leaving that whole aside. But what you just described is something that like, almost by definition, wouldn't be successful. So why can't you find someone to build it at scale?

• 31:02Speaker 02

  Well, it's 2025 and we live in the, in a wonderful country, but one that has evolved into a lot of industrial complexes. And they don't like change.

• 31:16Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, but I mean, you know, no one wants AI. We're getting it anyway!

• 31:22Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, but.

• 31:23Tucker Carlson?

  Right? We're getting massive change.

• 31:24Speaker 02

  It's power, that's, that's power and control and money, and they can do it, and they will. Which, I have to say one thing, which I think you may appreciate. AI effectively is a synthetic god that we're creating.

• 31:36Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, of course.

• 31:38Speaker 02

  How much of a biblical warning disaster is that?

• 31:42Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, you don't have to dig too deep to be.

• 31:44Speaker 02

  We're destroying the entirety of the human experience? I just, I just wanted to say that.

• 31:48Tucker Carlson?

  And people themselves, right?

• 31:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's the.

• 31:50Tucker Carlson?

  Replacing human beings. I know that'll end well.

• 31:51Speaker 02

  Apex of the golden calf.

• 31:52Tucker Carlson?

  And by the way, I've done, I don't know how many interviews on the topic of AI around the world. I've been to a lot of different countries to learn just for myself more about what's happening there. And the one question that no one can answer is, like, what's the benefit of this?

• 32:07Tucker Carlson?

  Like we know.

• 32:07Speaker 02

  Control for others.

• 32:09Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. None of the benefits. Yeah, whatever. I don't want to sound like an old guy. But I feel like one when I hear this topic. So, but anyway, just back to the, to the point. Like, why specifically? So you've been talking about this on your podcast on YouTube.

• 32:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, my YouTube channel. Yeah.

• 32:25Tucker Carlson?

  And which has a lot of viewers. And why has no one called you to say, you know, I'll friendship a couple hundred million bucks and we'll just build a facility and.

• 32:35Speaker 02

  The, the difficulty with things like this is so. Okay. First of all, you think, how do you do that? Okay. With what I'm talking about is not something that can be reasonably just scaled from a garage. Like, what am I going to do? Just build a few little ones here, sell them out eventually?

• 32:48Tucker Carlson?

  I would buy one.

• 32:48Speaker 02

  You gotta do something.

• 32:49Tucker Carlson?

  Selling one, I would buy. What's it look like?

• 32:51Speaker 02

  I, I'm. Oh, it's, it's.

• 32:52Tucker Carlson?

  Such a bad interviewer. I haven't even asked the basic question.

• 32:55Speaker 02

  It's, it's, it's pretty cool.

• 32:57Tucker Carlson?

  But can you describe it? Give me a word picture.

• 33:00Speaker 02

  Trying to think of anything that quite looks like it. It's slippery. It looks like a cross between an exotic car and a little bit of a Bonneville Salt Flats car.

• 33:09Tucker Carlson?

  Wow. You didn't mention Cybertruck. Does it have hard lines?

• 33:12Speaker 02

  No.

• 33:13Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 33:14Speaker 02

  Well, I'd like it to be efficient.

• 33:17Tucker Carlson?

  Oh.

• 33:18Speaker 02

  Rather than just interesting for aesthetic sake. Respectfully, I don't mean that as a dig.

• 33:24Tucker Carlson?

  No, I'm not attacking the Cybertruck. I personally think it's incredibly unattractive. It's.

• 33:28Speaker 02

  The Cybertruck?

• 33:29Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 33:30Speaker 02

  Um, I just like the meme.

• 33:31Tucker Carlson?

  And I respect the Cybertruck, by the way. I did a Cybertruck review.

• 33:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:34Tucker Carlson?

  I think it's a really interesting vehicle. I'm glad it exists and, but I'm just saying aesthetically.

• 33:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's pretty good looking. It's a little different because we're accustomed to seeing what we're seeing.

• 33:44Tucker Carlson?

  Too many angles for me.

• 33:45Speaker 02

  Oh, no, I was talking about my car, not the Cybertruck.

• 33:47Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, sorry. I'm obsessed with.

• 33:48Speaker 02

  No, the Cybertruck, the best meme is there's a DeLorean and an F-117 Nighthawk, right? And F-117 is like the military guy and the DeLorean is kind of like the mom and the, the Nighthawk's like, uh, what do you mean he's my son? He doesn't, he doesn't look anything like me. And they show the Cybertruck and he's like, oh, you know?

• 34:06Tucker Carlson?

  I'm more like 1935 Packard, you know, just soft lines.

• 34:10Speaker 02

  I have a 31 Buick Faieton.

• 34:12Tucker Carlson?

  Is it pretty?

• 34:13Speaker 02

  Yes, very.

• 34:14Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, of course it is. So anyway, I keep interrupting you. Tell me what it looks like. What would you compare it to? Something that people might-

• 34:21Speaker 02

  Well, it's mid-engine. Okay, so the engine's within the wheelbase, but behind the cockpit. It's two-seat. It has butterfly doors similar to like McLaren F1 in that regard was efficient. It has something of an open tail because I, it was very important the way the air flows around it, but also underneath it. So that I can make it highly efficient. So, you know, the bottom of the, it's a monocoque structure where it's not like a tube frame with the body stuck on it. The whole car is itself the structure as well. So the air, the way it flows over it through the radiator in the back, also to the heating of the motor. And the way that then intersects the trailing edge and the way the air flows around it. It's just all designed to be design efficient.

• 35:05Tucker Carlson?

  Sounds amazing.

• 35:07Speaker 02

  And you can even use the structure of the, shall we, the chassis or the structure. So I can even make the stereo system very small and effective and efficient because naturally acoustically it works out well for that too. So it's a lot of fun with design. I just,

• 35:22Speaker 02

  every once in a while, you need somebody who looks around at the world and goes, this is wrong. We can do better. I can do better. I'm going to do better. And that's, that's just-

• 35:30Tucker Carlson?

  So you built this thing. Can you register it?

• 35:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:34Tucker Carlson?

  Just like go to the DMV and register it?

• 35:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's registered no different than like an assembled vehicle or kick car. There's a lot of ways that are modified vehicle.

• 35:40Tucker Carlson?

  Just like and make car I made?

• 35:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:44Tucker Carlson?

  Huh. Amazing.

• 35:47Speaker 02

  Car guy stuff.

• 35:49Tucker Carlson?

  What do people say when you drive it around?

• 35:51Speaker 02

  I keep it relatively under wraps because respectfully, for as much time as it took me to build and what it represents, it's, I consider it kind of valuable to trust out there in the wild with people on their cell phones and stuff. So I kind of go with a low profile, but people are definitely interested and enamored by.

• 36:07Tucker Carlson?

  But they're not beating down your door.

• 36:09Speaker 02

  Correct. And that was the other interesting thing. So nobody reported on it, even though, you know, I got a few hundred thousand views on it when I said everything I wanted to say and show it and did the numbers, right? I would think if somebody builds a diesel car that represents being affordable and recyclable mass produce, that gets great fuel efficiency and has a low carbon impact and all people would be into that. Well, one word I got back from an automotive media was telling. They said, we don't report on dirty diesel. And the other was diesel's dead. And I thought about that and I go, hang on. Diesel's like one of the most used fuels there are.

• 36:45Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, who, who wrote that?

• 36:47Speaker 02

  It was said, it wasn't written. It was said to us privately.

• 36:50Tucker Carlson?

  These are like professional car reviewers?

• 36:51Speaker 02

  Correct. They won't touch it. They won't write about it.

• 36:54Tucker Carlson?

  Why do, this is obviously a much deeper question, but why do the worst people in the world, the most small minded, the stupidest, the meanest, the people with like the most unbalanced, unhealthy personal lives, why do they all go into journalism, do you think?

• 37:09Speaker 02

  That's a better question for you, but I have a theory.

• 37:10Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know. I've been pondering this for like 35 years and I don't understand it.

• 37:14Speaker 02

  There are certain personality types and I see the worst ones as kind of like, we talk about like the dark triad personality traits, which is like, you know, psychopathy and Machiavellianism and narcissism, et cetera, that, you know, these kinds. I'm gonna get in a lot of trouble for this.

• 37:29Tucker Carlson?

  No, I love it. I clearly thought about this.

• 37:31Speaker 02

  No, I, I've been around. So in the, in the normal car world, sports cars and such, I'm gonna get in trouble. I love exotic cars. I really do. Okay. Like when I was a kid, my dad showed me the movies Grand Prix with James Gardner and Le Mans with Steve McQueen. Please tell me you've seen at least one of these movies, right?

• 37:46Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know.

• 37:47Speaker 02

  Okay. Well, watch Le Mans with Steve McQueen. Just getting a good vibe as Steve McQueen being himself and just Le Mans on straight in Le Mans, early seventies Porsche flat 12 against a Ferrari V12, just singing it. And like as a kid, I'm like, I want that. You know what I mean? So I love exotic cars because for me, something like a V12 Lamborghini is like, yes, I can't be Steve McQueen at Le Mans, but I can drive this. You know what I mean?

• 38:10Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 38:11Speaker 02

  But nowadays they're paddle shifted and any, anybody that wants to flex can buy them. So if somebody ever said to me, hey, Casey, I need you to find me the most narcissistic sociopath possible. I'm like, no problem. Let's find the most Lamborghinis. And the reason I bring that up.

• 38:26Tucker Carlson?

  And you say their paddles, meaning the.

• 38:28Speaker 02

  Anybody can drive them. They don't take any more.

• 38:30Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 38:31Speaker 02

  They don't take any more skill or appreciation for the machinery respectfully.

• 38:33Tucker Carlson?

  How were they, were you like double clutching them? Like, how hard were they to operate before?

• 38:38Speaker 02

  Like.

• 38:39Tucker Carlson?

  When there was standard transmission?

• 38:40Speaker 02

  Things like that back when, you know, carbureted, like anything, you gotta treat a muscle car right a little bit, you know, something that's carbureted.

• 38:46Tucker Carlson?

  An old Harley Davidson.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  A lot harder.

• 38:48Tucker Carlson?

  How to operate it.

• 38:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, if you got, if you get the privilege of driving something like an old Lamborghini or Ferrari from the seventies or earlier, you gotta be a little sympathetic. You gotta understand the transmission. You gotta be able to rev match gears and such. You're not gonna be doing wild burnouts and such. You gotta understand the carburetors and letting it warm up and appreciate it. And we're industrial age where you don't have to do that. But to answer your question relating to journalism, I make that joke about certain things attract certain personality traits because those personality traits can do well. So, you know, they also say Washington DC is Hollywood for ugly people.

• 39:23Tucker Carlson?

  That's for sure.

• 39:23Speaker 02

  And I think a lot of the traits of Hollywood to Washington DC to journalism are the same um, kind of manipulative sociopath tendencies. That you can lie to somebody with a smile perfectly and, and find the structured crazy chess game to ruin people's life and power play your way up and find power and money.

• 39:43Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, I think, I mean, everything you're saying is, is true, but it's just disappointing to see it in journalism, not because crappy.

• 39:51Speaker 02

  They're gutless.

• 39:52Tucker Carlson?

  With weird personal lives going to journalism. And they're cowards, of course. Most people are unfortunately, but they have no curiosity.

• 40:01Speaker 02

  I know.

• 40:01Tucker Carlson?

  And that's what drives me insane.

• 40:03Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 40:03Tucker Carlson?

  If there's one quality that defines journalism and a journalist, it's the desire to know more.

• 40:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 40:10Tucker Carlson?

  And they spend their whole lives trying to, you know, attack you, call you a racist for wanting to know more. It's insane. So somebody called me, well, actually you did call me.

• 40:18Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 40:19Tucker Carlson?

  And you're like, I built this car that gets 104 gallons. I mean, miles to a gallon. I'm not even a car guy really, but I'm like, well, that's kind of crazy. On a diesel motor, really? Engine? Yes. And, you know.

• 40:30Speaker 02

  I tried to be polite and qualify myself.

• 40:32Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, but I was like, it was amazing. I was like, really? Is that really true? I guess you got video of it, so I guess it is. So I don't know why, if I was a professional car reviewer, I'd be like, I'm coming to your house. I want to see what this is.

• 40:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, and to be fair, in a manner of speaking, I didn't really invent anything. I just designed something better and thought about the world independently. And like, I'm doing this. It needs to represent what we actually can do and where we can go. And I just, I have to do this.

• 40:57Tucker Carlson?

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• 41:41Tucker Carlson?

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• 42:04Speaker 00

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• 42:34Speaker 05

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• 42:54Speaker 05

  You do got this.

• 42:56Speaker 06

  Nyquil Intense Flu, the nighttime sniffling, aching, aching fever best sleep with a flu medicine. Uses directed, keep out of reach of children.

• 43:03Tucker Carlson?

  Were you obsessed?

• 43:04Speaker 02

  I don't think obsessed.

• 43:05Tucker Carlson?

  No, but I mean, did it, was it the kind of thing that occupied your thoughts in bed? And like, were you really fixated on it?

• 43:12Speaker 02

  I mean, yeah, because I designed the things in my head. You know, I'll do like a drawing or an engineering drawing or something just to communicate and show somebody else, but I'll run all the simulations and design and the entire structure and everything in my head. My wife gets on my case sometimes, so we go on a date or she's like, I can see the hamster wheel turning. I'm like, I'm sorry.

• 43:29Tucker Carlson?

  That's how creativity works.

• 43:31Speaker 02

  You just, you know.

• 43:32Tucker Carlson?

  Germinates in your head.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  No, I've lived. But no, the journalists, I appreciate you saying that because they follow along. They want their power within their bubble. But the thing that's kind of crazy to me, when I say they're gutless, you would think they would actually get better views and more clicks if they broke the mold to show something interesting that maybe goes against popular narratives, but they don't.

• 43:52Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, they spend their lives dutifully ignoring things. I mean, there are megaliths around the world, including in the United States, huge stone structures. And nobody, including, you know, any structural engineer in the United States, has no idea how they were built in the pre, you know, internal combustion age, in the pre-industrial age. Like, there's literally not even a good guess as to this, how this was built. And I, of course, I don't know the answer either, but I mean, that's such an amazing thing. When were the pyramids built? Nobody knows. How were they built? Nobody knows. I can't get that out of my head.

• 44:23Speaker 02

  There's a lot of.

• 44:24Tucker Carlson?

  And again, I'm not pushing a conspiracy theory. I'm just noting what we don't know.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:28Tucker Carlson?

  And I don't know why, like, everyone's like, shut up, shut up. What?

• 44:34Speaker 02

  Now, I'm glad you said that. And there's a lot of other structures that are popping up more nowadays in archaeology. And there's even guys that do like surface lidar and they're seeing things in fields and such. And as silly as it is-

• 44:45Tucker Carlson?

  Can you explain what that is for people who don't know what you're talking about?

• 44:47Speaker 02

  To be perfectly honest, I don't know it as well. But I think through the satellites and stuff that we can use now, like nerds, and I mean that in a nice way, spend the time like looking over, it shows the exact topography of the ground-

• 44:58Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly.

• 44:59Speaker 02

  -without vegetation and-

• 45:00Tucker Carlson?

  And suggests what's underneath it.

• 45:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. So if you start seeing geometric shapes and stuff, might be something.

• 45:05Tucker Carlson?

  It might be man-made, or at least made.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, and the other thing is, so maybe not too long ago, 10, 20, 30 years ago, we think, oh, we've discovered everything. We're brilliant. We know everything.

• 45:16Tucker Carlson?

  It's just the opposite of the truth. I know, I know.

• 45:17Speaker 02

  I really, I don't know if I'll time or what the future will bring, but I really want to do some videos where you go to interesting places in the world to see and find these things. And one thing I'd really like to do is motorcycles around Saudi Arabia.

• 45:34Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  Because it is a fascinating kingdom with some really interesting history.

• 45:38Tucker Carlson?

  I was just there.

• 45:39Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah?

• 45:40Tucker Carlson?

  Yes. And I was out in Al Ula, which is the truly ancient-

• 45:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 45:45Tucker Carlson?

  Right. That's the place you want to see it.

• 45:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, one of them.

• 45:47Tucker Carlson?

  Right out from Riyadh. It's quite amazing. But the archaeology there, which is, you know, the Saudis have a lot going on. They're building a whole new society.

• 45:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:55Tucker Carlson?

  And I don't know that they are, you know, focused on, like most emerging nations are not focused on archaeology. All of the archaeological sites of significance in the Middle East and then, you know, the Near East, Levant, were discovered by the Brits and the French.

• 46:12Speaker 02

  Right.

• 46:13Tucker Carlson?

  All of them. They'd sat there for thousands of years. The locals were like-

• 46:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:17Tucker Carlson?

  -too busy trying to stay alive.

• 46:18Speaker 02

  Well, they knew of it. It was normal. I don't want to say normal to them, but that's their home.

• 46:20Tucker Carlson?

  But it took people from the outside to be like, wait, what the hell is that? You know, where was whatever, Sodom and Gomorrah, you know?

• 46:26Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, yes. I mean, how much of that is biblical land, like the land of Midian, you know, which they know.

• 46:31Tucker Carlson?

  But the point is, that process of discovery and of creativity is driven by a common impulse, which is curiosity.

• 46:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:41Tucker Carlson?

  And so when you don't have curiosity- You're never gonna discover or create, but more important, I think, for the moment we're living in, it's like, why don't you have curiosity? Why is curiosity discouraged? Like, that is a very, and I don't know the answer, but I find it scary. There's something sinister about that. Don't ask questions. Well, why?

• 47:02Speaker 02

  Social media is doing it to us.

• 47:04Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, but why? What's the?

• 47:07Speaker 02

  Well.

• 47:07Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, I don't even have very interesting, crazy views on anything, but I know, just from talking about World War II, there are people alive who are in World War II. It's like, it just happened 80 years ago. People like denounce you as some Nazi. I couldn't be more against the Nazis, just for the record. But it's like, what was Rudolph Hess doing in Great Britain? That's like a really interesting question. No, not a lot. They murdered Rudolph Hess in Spandau in his 80s. I think it's really clear that he was killed, so he wouldn't say why he flew over.

• 47:40Speaker 02

  People just won't talk about that.

• 47:42Tucker Carlson?

  But it's like, but why? Why is that scary to anybody? What are, and the megalith thing, and the archaeology thing? Why are these scary questions?

• 47:51Speaker 02

  Well.

• 47:51Tucker Carlson?

  What's the answer? I don't understand.

• 47:52Speaker 02

  I'll say it. So you said, relating to your, your cars, about control, right?

• 47:57Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 47:57Speaker 02

  I don't want this because I can't control it. It's the same thing of like, saying you can pry this, whether it's a sports car, firearm, out of my cold, dead hands. If people don't ask questions, and they're not interested in their own history, or culture, or the past, or any others, and they can't relate, it's easier to keep them in one place, and your thumb on them.

• 48:15Tucker Carlson?

  I think that's, I mean, look, if, but I don't begrudge people a lack of interest in anything. I mean, every person makes his own decisions about what he cares about, and.

• 48:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:23Tucker Carlson?

  And, you know, his beliefs, his religion, all those things. You know, I'm like, very, I guess, liberal in that sense. I just, I'm worried when people attack me for being curious.

• 48:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't, I'm not into that myself.

• 48:35Tucker Carlson?

  And all these people on the so-called right, you know, whatever, a lot of which is like, totally fake, there's nothing right about it, they're leftists, or they're.

• 48:42Speaker 02

  True.

• 48:43Tucker Carlson?

  You know, obeying the same masters, start attacking you for asking, oh, just asking questions. It's like, yeah, I am just asking questions. Like, that's okay. In fact, that's like.

• 48:52Speaker 02

  The nature of human existence.

• 48:54Tucker Carlson?

  The core of Western civilization. That's what Martin Luther did.

• 48:56Speaker 02

  And the thing that frankly is so dangerous about.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  No, it's perfect. And frankly, that's what I think is so dangerous about AI.

• 49:03Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 49:04Speaker 02

  The journey, the life journey to find the wisdom, to learn, to seek the truth. Will that stop it? And then who's controlling it?

• 49:10Tucker Carlson?

  Well, the iPhone has not made us better informed. You know, the internet has not made us better informed. In fact, it's centralized control over information. In effect, Wikipedia is the first search result and Wikipedia is completely controlled by the US government, by the intel agencies, fact. And the results in Wikipedia are shaped subtly, sometimes not so subtly, to produce a worldview.

• 49:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:36Tucker Carlson?

  That is inherently dishonest.

• 49:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 49:38Tucker Carlson?

  It's not true. And if you get your history through Wikipedia, I look at Wikipedia every day. I'm not, you know, there are certain great things about Wikipedia, but, but big picture, you're going to have no idea what happened in the past if all you do is read Wikipedia.

• 49:51Speaker 02

  No, how can you? I mean, we can think of so many popular things through history that are just that way, where people only know one superficial level.

• 49:57Tucker Carlson?

  The internet did that to us.

• 50:00Speaker 02

  No, it has. It has made everything more extreme and pigeonholed everything, you know.

• 50:04Tucker Carlson?

  But also dumber, like people don't read books.

• 50:06Speaker 02

  Well, here's something I noticed just from-

• 50:07Tucker Carlson?

  Sorry, now I'm really good.

• 50:08Speaker 02

  Oh, no, you're, you're right. Well, just from doing automotive YouTube.

• 50:13Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 50:13Speaker 02

  It still works the same as every other YouTube and human interaction and all that. I

• 50:19Speaker 02

  it's kind of a funny way to put it. So I was a car guy before YouTube, right? I built cars. I did all that sort of thing. A lot of people that have become more prominent in the automotive region of YouTube, they weren't as big a car guy. They kind of just rose up as an interesting character and they're happy to be somewhat famous, make some money, do their thing, get acknowledgement. And as I, I grew that, which is funny, because the entirety of the reason I went on YouTube was just to try to get some exposure for the nonprofit I was doing, because I couldn't get any with traditional media. I was kind of pissed off.

• 50:49Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 50:50Speaker 02

  So I ended up there for that reason, but kept it going because it's like, okay, well, I have something of a voice. This is good for the nonprofit to give it exposure or just try to have a life and go somewhere, you know? But what I noticed is-

• 51:03Speaker 02

  They call the people that are creating the content, the influencers. They're the influenced because they're always chasing an algorithm and the algorithm wants to keep you in one place.

• 51:12Tucker Carlson?

  It's

• 51:12Speaker 02

  It doesn't let you evolve. It doesn't let you do anything.

• 51:14Tucker Carlson?

  No, it's totally right.

• 51:15Speaker 02

  It's a pseudo reality and I see how that affects the culture and young people. I don't like it.

• 51:21Tucker Carlson?

  No, it's a snake eating its tail for sure. I wonder though, like, I'm sure this has occurred to you and I'm terrible at business. So don't take my advice, but like, since you have designed something that has inherent utility and obvious mass appeal. And I'm naive enough to think that still matters. Like if you make a great thing.

• 51:42Speaker 02

  It does matter.

• 51:43Tucker Carlson?

  People want it and they'll pay for it, especially if it's cheap. Why not just do like a crowdfunding situation where like, all right, you know, I designed this vehicle, it's 104 miles to the gallon on diesel fuel, which you can buy anywhere. And that, you know, can match an electric vehicle off the line. Like who wants to send in money and let's make this thing.

• 52:04Speaker 02

  Right. Well, it's how you scale it, right? So in my thinking, if you do a crowdfunding type of thing, it's very grassroots, respectfully.

• 52:10Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 52:12Speaker 02

  And I would have to go a different direction with the car where they'd kind of almost be like self-assembled prototype type things. And that's, that's cool. But honestly, the thing I kind of worry about doing that, starting a small scale versus something else, is that I don't want to do something in a sense too good to where they try to change the laws and ruin the ability for people to build their own cars. I know that sounds a little kooky, but the other thing is if you think of like private equity guys and such, typically they want a faster return on such. And the problem is when you're thinking of something that frankly upsets an industry and relates to the automotive industry, how do you integrate it? Can you use the processes to make smaller parts that can be profitable in industry? Do you start smaller like that? Do you want to do all big scale and create a car company from the ground up?

• 52:57Speaker 02

  Because that's no small task monetarily speaking.

• 53:00Tucker Carlson?

  No, it's not.

• 53:01Speaker 02

  And there's only so many. Idealistic rogue billionaires in the world, you know? And that's generally what it takes unless you have a government that wants to make something happen.

• 53:10Tucker Carlson?

  If you can make a vehicle like this for 20 grand, why not just sell it for 50 grand on the internet? I'd buy one.

• 53:17Speaker 02

  You have a point, but you gotta scale that to a point that works. Cause there's a big difference between doing something in a small manufacturing to mass production.

• 53:25Tucker Carlson?

  But there's gotta be a way to get it out there. I mean.

• 53:28Speaker 02

  Well, Elon's first car with Tesla, the Roadster, was a Lotus Elise chassis with a different body and electrified. And the guys that I knew who had those originally were rich guys. They had Ferraris and Lamborghinis and that was their cool toy to start with.

• 53:41Tucker Carlson?

  What's this car called, by the way?

• 53:43Speaker 02

  The Tesla Roadster, the original one. Oh, mine, the Omega car, I called it.

• 53:46Tucker Carlson?

  The Omega car?

• 53:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:49Tucker Carlson?

  I'd like an Omega car in forest green. Could you do that?

• 53:52Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 53:53Tucker Carlson?

  Actually?

• 53:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, why not?

• 53:56Tucker Carlson?

  I'd buy it in a second. Can you ship them?

• 53:58Speaker 02

  You can, you can. We'd have to talk if you want to prototype something though. Maybe we'll make something special.

• 54:03Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  Hold your fly rods.

• 54:05Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, for real.

• 54:06Speaker 02

  If you can't use it, what good is it, you know?

• 54:08Tucker Carlson?

  I'm getting one. So I just want to go back to something you said in the very first moments of this interview. You said that you don't own any, you're obviously a car guy, you build cars.

• 54:21Speaker 02

  My happiness is way too wrapped up in the ability to just drive my own car.

• 54:26Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I love.

• 54:27Speaker 02

  Whether anybody's around or not, I don't care. Just let me drive my own car.

• 54:30Tucker Carlson?

  But you like wrenched on them too.

• 54:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's rewarding. I don't necessarily want to do it all the time.

• 54:34Tucker Carlson?

  No, no.

• 54:36Speaker 02

  I try to, my hands have healed up enough. I won't bleed on my white shirt today. That's nice.

• 54:42Tucker Carlson?

  But can I ask, like, you said that you don't have any vehicle older than early 2000s?

• 54:48Speaker 02

  Newer, newer than early 2000s.

• 54:49Tucker Carlson?

  Rather?

• 54:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:50Tucker Carlson?

  Newer, I beg your pardon. So, um, why is that? Like, what's bad about cars made in the last 25 years? And please be very specific.

• 54:59Speaker 02

  Oh, I will. The first problem with new cars is you lose money hand over fist to depreciation.

• 55:04Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 55:05Speaker 02

  And then if you have to take out a loan for it, you're also paying interest on that.

• 55:07Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 55:08Speaker 02

  And one of the fastest ways I see normal people in general lose money is on new cars.

• 55:13Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 55:14Speaker 02

  And they do it because they're afraid they can't work on it or service it.

• 55:16Tucker Carlson?

  That's exactly right.

• 55:17Speaker 02

  That's basically the only real reason.

• 55:18Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly right.

• 55:20Speaker 02

  But then you get dealerships that just find new ways to not do their warranty work. Cause that's where they make a lot of money and that's, that's a separate thing. So a new car, I mean, that's nice if you can afford it, but rather than buying a new hundred thousand dollar truck or SUV, I'd, I'd rather buy this nice used one for, I don't know, 15 or 20 and spend the rest of the money. I'll go, you know, if you got it, go buy a vintage Ferrari or a muscle car, something cool, you know? At least keep your money, have some fun, but it's more than that. Cars, I would say in the last 20 to 25 years,

• 55:51Speaker 02

  the evolution is not for the sake of the car and the person and so much of the experience. It's more for the sake of the nature of dealing with regulation and keeping a profit margin and building it. And when you do that, you make things that are inherently more prone to failing in the future and less serviceable. And that's not good for ownership or an actual lifespan.

• 56:16Tucker Carlson?

  So everything, um, I mean, I grew up working on a motorcycle with a carburetor and

• 56:21Speaker 02

  I still got them.

• 56:22Tucker Carlson?

  Building the carburetor, adjusting the flow bowl, you know, had a timing light, adjust the points. I mean, all that stuff, just like really super basic mechanics and you know, there are lots of downsides to that. They break a lot, but you could understand it. My feeling is the vehicles that I have had that are newer, I mean, I have no idea how they work. I don't, fuel injection is still kind of a mystery to me. I'm sorry to say that it is.

• 56:45Speaker 02

  It works the same way as a carburetor. It's just metered and more complicated.

• 56:48Tucker Carlson?

  Well, I guess this trend toward making everything electric.

• 56:54Tucker Carlson?

  I bought a truck last year, a Chevy truck, which I've always had. And I was at a gas station and all of a sudden on the dashboard it says, "Stop, we're downloading information from the internet."

• 57:06Speaker 02

  While you were driving?

• 57:07Tucker Carlson?

  No, I was, I was stopped.

• 57:09Speaker 02

  It just specifically wanted you to stay stopped so it can?

• 57:11Tucker Carlson?

  So it could, I don't know, download software? I sold the car immediately, I brought it back and sold it.

• 57:16Speaker 02

  They wanted all your data to provide it to insurance companies to wreck your life, I'm sure.

• 57:19Tucker Carlson?

  Is that true?

• 57:21Speaker 02

  Okay, insurance companies will be the downfall of cars and driving. I guarantee it. And the other thing is all the cameras that are out there, everybody's putting cameras on their car. I'm like, okay, you guys-

• 57:30Tucker Carlson?

  Cameras on their car?

• 57:32Speaker 02

  Well, I'm sure you've seen it. Like, people are buying little cameras to see what happens. If somebody does something stupid on the road, you can use that to protect yourself legally, right? That's why they sell it.

• 57:41Tucker Carlson?

  It's never occurred to me, but yes.

• 57:43Speaker 02

  Okay, what happens when those are mandated in every car everywhere? What happens when you're completely mandated control? Car shuts off at exactly 55 mile an hour speed limit, no matter what.

• 57:54Speaker 02

  It's just another method of slippery slope of control. And it'll come from insurance companies.

• 57:58Tucker Carlson?

  And, and the law enforcement can turn off your car from afar, correct? Yeah, and they do.

• 58:02Speaker 02

  Well, with certain cars.

• 58:04Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, certain cars. So what's the, when's the last year you could have a car that can't be controlled?

• 58:10Speaker 02

  That's a good question, because I don't mess around with those cars very often. Or ever.

• 58:15Tucker Carlson?

  But if you, is it fair to say?

• 58:16Speaker 02

  Ones that are connected to the internet or a satellite in some way. You know, OnStar kind of came about with your mirror, and I don't really know much about it, but that was kind of the first, I think, mainstream way when we saw cars were being specifically connected to something beyond yourself.

• 58:29Tucker Carlson?

  So would you say pre 9/11 cars are safe or not?

• 58:33Speaker 02

  They're a lot safer in terms of that. The other thing too, in the early 2000s, a system called Hand Bus system came out.

• 58:40Tucker Carlson?

  Hand Bus?

• 58:40Speaker 02

  It was to make wiring more efficient. You theoretically have less wires, but everything is tied together through almost like a spinal cord of the computer, and it has to speak to each other. And that was something else that was kind of a beginning of the end and being serviceable in the future and not creating cars with a lot of glitches.

• 58:57Tucker Carlson?

  It does feel like everything is, you're gonna have like fly by wire cars with, you know.

• 59:03Speaker 02

  We already do.

• 59:05Speaker 02

  The other thing is, a couple of small points that are also happening were the right to repair your own private property is under attack. That's for farmers.

• 59:13Tucker Carlson?

  What does that mean?

• 59:14Speaker 02

  Well, I think there was a big thing going on with John Deere tractors where farmers couldn't service their vehicles. They have to take them to the dealership and have to plug in with the computer that only the dealership has through the company. And forgive me if I got this wrong. I think it was John Deere. But that's something that's happening everywhere. Because if manufacturers or dealerships want more money, well, they want you to service with them. If they make it so you can only service with them, no matter what, well, then they're going to, in an authoritarian way, force you to let them make the money, which is frankly, another method of control. And when you start adding all of those things up, you just keep taking away all the power for the people before eventually you get to a point where will you will even be able to own your own car anymore? And will you driving

• 59:58Speaker 02

  it be a liability to where if we have self-driving cars, it just takes you there at the most efficient time that whatever the it wants you to, wants you to?

• 1:00:09Tucker Carlson?

  So that's like an attack on human autonomy.

• 1:00:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's where it's where that's going. And something.

• 1:00:14Tucker Carlson?

  So I had a Harley Davidson, you know, since I was in college in 1971, which, you know, I could kind of understand. Great bike. But I bought a new Harley last year and they delivered it, you know, big, fun bike, fast, you know, like six speeds, which is

• 1:00:31Speaker 02

  Actually comfortable.

• 1:00:32Tucker Carlson?

  Crazy to me. And that just the transmission is like, I mean, my bike, you downshift, you gotta pop the throttle, no return spring in the throttle, you gotta pop like that to get it down. And so the shifting in this thing was just like beyond belief. But when they delivered it to my barn, they, I said, let's talk about how to change the oil, obviously. And they go, no, no, we don't, we actually recommend bringing it to the dealership. And I was like, yeah, but it's changing the oil in a motorcycle is like not hard. And they're like, well, you know, there are gaskets and gaskets. Why would it be a gasket? Why did you have to replace a gasket to change so well? Anyway, I brought it back to dealership, didn't want it.

• 1:01:14Speaker 02

  Oh, really? You're like, and now I'm done with you guys?

• 1:01:16Tucker Carlson?

  I, I, I did. And they were great. I don't mean to attack them in any way. They were awesome people. Most motorcycle people are great people and they definitely were. But I didn't want a motorcycle where you had to replace a gasket. I mean, like pop the jugs off. Okay.

• 1:01:31Speaker 02

  I mean, maybe like you might have a little like copper O-ring or aluminum ring or something on the drain plug. But like, is this one of those crazy modern manufacturing thing where you have to disassemble half the engine?

• 1:01:41Tucker Carlson?

  And they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I was like, I'm not rebuilding the lower end. I just want to change the oil. And they're like, you know, most of our customers bring that back to the dealership. And I was, and I don't know, I didn't like that at all. And I felt like there was a scam involved.

• 1:01:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:59Tucker Carlson?

  Which is the one you described, right?

• 1:02:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, it just triggers something kind of in your, in the back, like something's wrong here. Yeah. Well, and I don't say those things in a like kooky conspiracy, conspiratorial type of way, but it's literally where we're going. And you know, when I see things like that and I mentioned about, it'll be insurance companies that ruin it for everybody. Because the other thing is, what happens when they start making it where you can't drive your older cars anymore?

• 1:02:25Tucker Carlson?

  Do you ever feel like you can't trust the things you hear or read? Like every news source is hollow, distorted, or clearly just propaganda lying to you? Well, you're not imagining it. If the last few years have proven anything, it's that legacy media exists to distort the truth and to control you, to gatekeep information from the public instead of letting you know what's actually going on. They don't want you to know. But there is however, a publication that fights this, that is not propaganda, one that we read every month and have for many years is called Imprimis. It's from Hillsdale College in Michigan. Imprimis is a free speech digest that features some of the best minds in the country addressing the questions that actually matter. The ones that are not addressed in the Washington Post or NBC News.

• 1:03:10Tucker Carlson?

  The best part of it, it is free, no cost whatsoever, no strings attached. They just send it to you. Hillsdale will send Imprimis right to your house, no charge. All you gotta do is ask. Go to tuckerforhillsdale.com and subscribe for free today. That's tuckerforhillsdale.com.

• 1:03:26Tucker Carlson?

  The only way this stays a democracy is if the citizenry is informed. You can't fight tyranny if you don't know what's going on. Imprimis helps. It's free. Don't wait. Sign up now.

• 1:03:38Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPact.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:04:08Speaker 05

  Honey, that flu keeping you up?

• 1:04:09Speaker 07

  Yeah, I don't got this.

• 1:04:11Speaker 05

  You need NyQuil Intense Flu.

• 1:04:13Speaker 06

  Undo your flu symptoms with NyQuil Intense Flu. The nighttime sniffling, aching, aching fever, best leave with a flu medicine. You do got this. Use as directed. Keep out of reach of children.

• 1:04:22Tucker Carlson?

  So I always felt that cash for clunkers, do you remember that program?

• 1:04:24Speaker 02

  Yes, that was, that was a little early before I started paying attention to the goings on.

• 1:04:28Tucker Carlson?

  So the federal government basically paid clunkers, like perfectly fine cars, built before a certain date. You could redeem them for cash. And then they just, they melted them. And I felt like there was something pretty sinister about that. But maybe I'm just like one of those paranoid wackos who don't think Randy Weaver deserved to be killed. I don't know. Maybe I'm just on the fringe.

• 1:04:48Speaker 02

  If an industry, no, if an industry is no longer about innovation and it's so big that it can't fail and it's pushed to go a certain way. Well, then, the best way to ensure that it succeeds is force you to buy something new, even if it's not in your own best interest.

• 1:05:03Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly.

• 1:05:06Tucker Carlson?

  But it does, you know, you raised the question, which is how do you service vehicles made before 9/11? And that is why people don't want them. And I must say, made before. You, you said you buy.

• 1:05:18Speaker 02

  The ones made before are easier to service than the ones made after.

• 1:05:21Tucker Carlson?

  Well, no, I mean, it's like if you buy an older vehicle and I drive an older vehicle. So I know it's like, you can't just, I mean, you have to know someone who can fix it.

• 1:05:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course, to an extent, yeah.

• 1:05:32Tucker Carlson?

  But are we entering a world where there won't be any mechanics who can, who know what a carburetor is? For example?

• 1:05:39Speaker 02

  Well, I don't, I don't know about that so much. It's specialized, but they're simple. You can look at it and know the basic principles that are going on. It's the newer stuff that's crazy. For instance, my father in law recently got my mother in law this nice newer SUV. I think it's a BMW. I think it's a hybrid SUV. She likes it and my father in law look at it and go by, we're like, there's a lot of servos and things whirring and buzzing and I don't want to say it, but I'm guess I'm saying it now. It's kind of like, when is this thing going to break and how much is that going to cost?

• 1:06:06Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:06Speaker 02

  No, you're not going to reasonably fix that. And then when that thing is older, that all these highly specialized little mechanisms and circuit boards and servos or whatever go bad, who's making that? And is it worth making it anymore? Or is it just another giant, complicated, toxic, wasteful thing that we go on in this vicious consumer cycle?

• 1:06:26Tucker Carlson?

  No, they just, they just crush it.

• 1:06:28Speaker 02

  Well, some older cars you can still fix. It's goofy story, maybe, but I bought a, for $8,000, I bought a 1996 Rolls Royce off Facebook Marketplace. Kind of as a joke. I'm like, I don't know, this might be kind of cool. I love the car and I ended up fixing it up for almost nothing. And I got a car that in 1996.

• 1:06:48Tucker Carlson?

  Did it run?

• 1:06:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a great car. Taking off family trips and all in it. I didn't have to do that much.

• 1:06:54Tucker Carlson?

  Rolls Royce?

• 1:06:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was like $170, $80,000 in the nineties, but where I'm going with it is.

• 1:06:58Tucker Carlson?

  The way you roll.

• 1:07:00Speaker 02

  Hey, look, I may not be wealthy, but like I can live well. If you got a toolbox and some know how and you think for yourself, you know? But where I was going with it is that car is fixable. The way it's constructed.

• 1:07:10Tucker Carlson?

  What kind of engine does it have?

• 1:07:11Speaker 02

  It's got a V8, it's all aluminum, naturally aspirated V8. The transmission's General Motors based. So when I needed stuff to fix it, I just got it locally. It was no big deal. And sure, there's some things that are old Rolls Royce on it, but it's built differently. It's built to where you can actually repair the part, not just be a parts changing. Type of mechanic like modern things. And people get into technology for technology's sake nowadays. But it's the philosophy of design that goes behind it. We're locked in this consumer industrialized, only new is better, more complicated, more expensive, more regulated. When the mentality and the know how, should we say, of the first half of the 20th century, we built things that could actually be repaired.

• 1:07:55Speaker 02

  We built things that can be serviceable, that can last to an extent. So why are we not still using good design and engineering mindsets and techno, you know, direction with modernity in a way that's actually useful for people and communities and nation and rather than just an industry?

• 1:08:15Tucker Carlson?

  I'm most struck by, I mean, because we've deindustrialized is part of it. So that makes sense to me, you know, why, why can't we build this or that thing? Why haven't we been to the moon, you know, in 50 years? Assuming we went in the first place. I kind of get that because there are fewer competent engineers. Everyone's a marketing major. Okay, that makes sense. What I don't understand is the decline in design across, and not just in automotive, but across, across this society, the civilization, actually.

• 1:08:49Speaker 02

  We're making things uglier, aren't we?

• 1:08:50Tucker Carlson?

  Why is that?

• 1:08:51Speaker 02

  That's a cultural issue.

• 1:08:54Tucker Carlson?

  I was in another city, I won't name it, but a, you know, nice kind of tertiary city. And, but a growing city with a lot of nice people in it, affluent. And I was driving through, this was last weekend, I was driving through an affluent neighborhood with one of my children who's a design person. And I said, that's, that house is black. This is new build. It was a brand new house.

• 1:09:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. Normally that would have meant in Europe, you got the black Pelag, don't come here.

• 1:09:20Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:20Speaker 02

  Back in the day, right? Like if you're in Amsterdam.

• 1:09:22Tucker Carlson?

  A black house? Like what?

• 1:09:23Speaker 02

  Amsterdam.

• 1:09:24Tucker Carlson?

  And then I saw another. And then I saw like three more. I said to my daughter.

• 1:09:27Speaker 02

  Do these people hate themselves?

• 1:09:28Tucker Carlson?

  What is this? She goes, it's disgusting. And I, I felt that way, but like, what? Why would you ever paint a house black? Or why would you build? Like, what the hell is going on with design? What, what's your theory?

• 1:09:41Speaker 02

  Actually, I went in college, went to Ohio State, third generation there. And originally I was going in for automotive design or product design. Um, I really should have gone into engineering. That's my forte, but where I'm going with this is it's housed within fine art in colleges.

• 1:09:58Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:59Speaker 02

  And I, I generally dislike modern art. Okay.

• 1:10:03Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, thank.

• 1:10:03Speaker 02

  I think that if you don't have the techni- the technical skill to do something actually beautiful, then I don't care about your, your whoo hoo abstract ideas, right? But where I'm going with this is

• 1:10:17Speaker 02

  so-called art and design and product design has been influenced over the 20th century, going back to like the Frankfurt School in Europe, which frankly was a lot of communist mindset that infiltrated the art world. And it's made.

• 1:10:32Tucker Carlson?

  Well, sure. It's anti-Western civilization. It's anti-Christian.

• 1:10:35Speaker 02

  It's anti-beauty.

• 1:10:36Tucker Carlson?

  The point, of course.

• 1:10:36Speaker 02

  It's the simplest thing. In fact, I gave you this small detail. I ended up hating my experience there. I ended up quitting after like a year and a half and designing my own major just to get the hell out of school because, um, I was kind of pissed off actually because there was one specifically, I remember in this one class, we get to design something for the whole semester, right? And we're going to design a bathroom scale. I'm like, okay, I thought about it. I'm like, this sucks. With the way they're teaching us to have an aesthetic, do the simplest thing possible, which is somewhat communistic in a way, you know, uh, it seems almost so.

• 1:11:09Tucker Carlson?

  That's the imperative, make it as simple as possible?

• 1:11:11Speaker 02

  The simplest, most boring thing possible. I'm like, what is the point? Let's just have a white room with one wasilly chair in the back of it. We'll just sit there and hate our lives. Like anything beautiful, anything classic, they shied away from design, literally pushed away.

• 1:11:25Tucker Carlson?

  What about natural?

• 1:11:27Speaker 02

  Natural beauty? That's not their thing.

• 1:11:29Tucker Carlson?

  It does seem like there's a very intense, like almost visceral hatred of nature coming off design people. It's like-

• 1:11:37Speaker 02

  Strangely, yes. Strangely. But in regard to the story I have to tell you, so the bathroom scale, I thought to myself, this is gonna take a semester? It doesn't even have to function. And if they just want to make the simplest thing possible, okay, here, here's a round piece of glass with an LCD display on it that tells you to go eat a salad. Like, I don't want to do this. And so I met with the academic advisor and I said, I will meet all of your academic requirements for this class, but please let me design something at my level right now. Let me design a car. And they said, no. They would not let me design anything-

• 1:12:10Tucker Carlson?

  Just because there's too much initiative and too much creativity?

• 1:12:13Speaker 02

  They wouldn't, they wouldn't let me do it.

• 1:12:14Tucker Carlson?

  Did you pay for this experience?

• 1:12:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, sadly. And that's a problem in American educational system. You know, libraries are free.

• 1:12:21Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:22Speaker 02

  You know, there's a lot of nice people out there that can help you learn. But so I stayed around in that program for another semester. I didn't do anything the whole semester. The night before the exam and presentation, I just Ferris Bueller'd a bunch of stuff together and ran around. I don't know, got a B plus. And I just designed cars and things on my own. But how insane is that, that in college, when you're actually paying to be there, and they're supposed to be design and product design, that they won't actually let students do what they're capable of doing, or push a boundary, or go anywhere? They literally keep a thumb on you like that. I quit the program after that. And I stopped caring. Where fortunately, when I was in high school, and hopefully, people have teachers

• 1:13:03Speaker 02

  that actually care, that matter. I had art teachers that made the world of difference for me and a lot of other people.

• 1:13:09Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:13:10Speaker 02

  That was huge. And people write things off now in, you know, pre-college, things like shop, home ec, vocational art, engineering drawing. Those are some of the most important things you can possibly have. But we got rid of all of those things to push college prep.

• 1:13:27Tucker Carlson?

  Way more than, I don't know, third wave feminist literature? I don't know. Rethink what you just said and ask yourself, do I really mean-

• 1:13:34Speaker 02

  Do I mean-

• 1:13:35Tucker Carlson?

  What I said? Well, that, I don't know, that architectural draftsmanship is more important than, say, The Color Purple by Alice Walker?

• 1:13:43Speaker 02

  You mean the things that actually make you contributing, functioning, individual member of society?

• 1:13:47Tucker Carlson?

  That elevate Beauty and Truth over like, Garbage by some low IQ unhappy chick?

• 1:13:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. That go into an academic vacuum that's not the real world, that's fueled by loans you can't default on? Whether there's going to be a job for you or not?

• 1:14:04Tucker Carlson?

  You know, I would say beneath your car design exterior lies a fairly incisive and bitter critique of the society.

• 1:14:12Speaker 02

  I think and look around.

• 1:14:14Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:14Speaker 02

  I don't like liars. I don't like being lied to, and that goes culturally, too.

• 1:14:18Tucker Carlson?

  I don't either. I completely agree. So how, um, I just have to be clear on this. How if there are other eccentric people out there who would like one of these vehicles that you've designed, how would that, would you be willing to make them to order?

• 1:14:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, I could, I could do that. You have to think about the structure of who wants to do what. You know, early adopters are usually people that can afford something. It's, it's going to cost more than 20 grand.

• 1:14:44Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:14:45Speaker 02

  When you're building something, but certainly that can be done. I could make lower production numbers and you could build something and a bit of a movement, too, from the ground up.

• 1:14:53Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it'd be cool to build it with a gas tank sufficient to get coast to coast, or, you know, I'd be-

• 1:14:58Speaker 02

  It's very doable. And the other thing is, I, you know, I like to do amateur race driving and vintage racing, so I like to make cars that are fast. And for me, it's kind of fun, the idea to make things that get over 100 miles a gallon that beat Dodge Vipers and Corvettes and Teslas. You know, that's what we did back when with muscle cars.

• 1:15:15Tucker Carlson?

  So how do people find you if like, if, if you made it this far in the interview?

• 1:15:18Speaker 02

  I'm shockingly easy to find.

• 1:15:19Tucker Carlson?

  You are?

• 1:15:20Speaker 02

  Perhaps a little scary. So maybe find a nice method rather than I just look out the window one day and go, eh.

• 1:15:26Tucker Carlson?

  So you're not giving your home address?

• 1:15:29Speaker 02

  Not at this moment.

• 1:15:29Tucker Carlson?

  But are you open to kind of custom build?

• 1:15:32Speaker 02

  Of course, I'm open to doing things. I mean, you know, I have a nice enough life. I have a wife, I have a cute daughter, a nice neighborhood and neighbors and toys to play with, but there's more to life than that.

• 1:15:42Tucker Carlson?

  Can you find men to work for you?

• 1:15:46Speaker 02

  Of course. Heck, I've been mentoring college students for the last decade plus. I can call up half of them. They've got great jobs out there.

• 1:15:53Tucker Carlson?

  So I guess it gets to a larger question. I mean, the trades are not dead, correct?

• 1:15:56Speaker 02

  No, they're not dead and they're vastly important right now. More people should be going into them.

• 1:15:59Tucker Carlson?

  I know.

• 1:16:00Speaker 02

  You wouldn't have all this student debt.

• 1:16:02Tucker Carlson?

  But in your life, if, if you all of a sudden got an order for 15 of these vehicles, could you find the people necessary?

• 1:16:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I could put that together.

• 1:16:09Tucker Carlson?

  Wow, okay.

• 1:16:11Speaker 02

  Well, and even if there's something that I don't know, I'm gonna find it.

• 1:16:14Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:16:14Speaker 02

  Like you make it happen. But, you know, one man can't do everything by themselves. You know, if you, if you're building something and nobody wants it, well, that's a problem. You need to build something somebody wants. And if it requires a team of people coming together, whether that's with talents or resources or finances to do it, then you find a way.

• 1:16:34Tucker Carlson?

  Do you think if you started doing this, the government would jump on you?

• 1:16:37Speaker 02

  It depends on how you do it. It is a game.

• 1:16:42Speaker 02

  And to be honest, when I, when I look at the car and what I've done with that, or with the educational nonprofit, or anything else in life, I look at, how do I have the biggest positive impact I possibly can? You know, and right now, the biggest impact with regard to the car is talking about it. So people do know what's possible. So hopefully, maybe they kind of, you know, wake up for a second from the cellphone, look around and think. That, that's, that's a vastly important thing to do. So I think it has tremendous value there.

• 1:17:11Speaker 02

  But, you know, I want to build something. You know, I'm an America first kind of guy. Like, why in the heck are we not building these things here?

• 1:17:18Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:18Speaker 02

  Why? We should. You know, and I give you an example. I've been around the sun, I don't know, 43 times in my life, right? When I was younger and we were working in a little town golf course, that's a family business, and a lot of the guys that golf at our golf course were blue collar. Everybody there's largely working class, old World War II vets, that sort of thing, right?

• 1:17:38Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, it's Toledo.

• 1:17:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, well, and that was even tiffin. But the point I'm making is, or if I'm like riding a motorcycle around Toledo or something, I'm like, nothing's changed. Nothing's changed in the last 50 years. There's people out here, they, they will, they want to work, they want a job, they want a community. But what's going on out there in the world that doesn't allow people to have that anymore?

• 1:17:56Speaker 02

  And that, that's, that's what frankly ticks me off. And usually I get ticked off and then I think and plan and do something.

• 1:18:02Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. Well, there's an instinctive hatred coming from our leaders for those kind of people.

• 1:18:09Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:18:10Tucker Carlson?

  It's pretty obvious.

• 1:18:11Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:18:12Tucker Carlson?

  Casey, I really appreciate you taking all this time. Amazing.

• 1:18:14Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:18:14Tucker Carlson?

  And I'm gonna order a vehicle from you.

• 1:18:16Speaker 02

  I appreciate it. It'd be fun.

• 1:18:17Tucker Carlson?

  Thank you.

• 1:18:22Tucker Carlson?

  We want to thank you for watching us on Spotify, a company that we use every day. We know the people who run it, good people. While you're here, do us a favor. Hit, follow, and tap the bell so you never miss an episode. We have real conversations, news, things that actually matter. Telling the truth always. You will not miss it if you follow us on Spotify and hit the bell. We appreciate it. Thanks for watching.