This Is the Biggest Scam in Human History — And It’s Happening Right Now | Robert Breedlove

Business Wars: Follow Business Wars on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. True Classic: Upgrade your wardrobe at https://trueclassic.com/impact Linkedin: Post your job free at https://linkedin.com/impacttheory CashApp: Download Cash App Today: https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/v6nymgjl #CashAppPod HomeServe: Help protect your home systems – and your wallet – with HomeServe against covered repairs. Plans start at just $4.99 a month at https://homeserve.com Quince: Go to https://quince.com/IMPACTPOD for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Huel: 15% off with this exclusive offer for New Customers only with code impact at https://huel.com/impact(Minimum $75 purchase). Netsuite: Right now, get our free business guide, Demystifying AI, at https://NetSuite.com/Theory http://netsuite.com/Theory Raycon: Up to 20% off during this holiday season at https://buyraycon.com/IMPACTTHEORYBC ButcherBox: New users will receive their choice between filet mignon, ribeye or NY Strip in every box for a year + $20 off! at https://butcherbox.com/impact What's up, everybody? It's Tom Bilyeu here: If you want my help... STARTING a business:join me here at ZERO TO FOUNDER https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show: https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show SCALING a business:see if you qualify here. https://tombilyeu.com/call: https://tombilyeu.com/call Get my battle-tested strategies and insights delivered weekly to your inbox:sign up here. https://tombilyeu.com/: https://tombilyeu.com/ ********************************************************************** If you're serious about leveling up your life, I urge you to check out my new podcast,Tom Bilyeu’s Mindset Playbook https://open.spotify.com/show/47VE90Cittmo6TGGFqg2xf —a goldmine of my most impactful episodes on mindset, business, and health. Trust me, your future self will thank you. ********************************************************************** FOLLOW TOM: Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/ Tik Tok:https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en Twitter:https://twitter.com/tombilyeu YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu In the second half of Tom’s conversation with Robert Breedlove, the podcast dives deeper into the intricate web of economics, personal sovereignty, and the transformative power of Bitcoin. Robert Breedlove eloquently lays out a blueprint for reclaiming autonomy in a world ruled by inflation and government overreach. You’ll hear a blunt assessment of why socialism repeatedly fails and turns murderous, guided by brutal incentives and philosophical errors. Moving beyond critique, the episode shifts toward solutions: why private property matters, why Bitcoin is uniquely resistant to theft and inflation, and how decentralization might change war, politics, and the shape of the future. Part 2 explores the real-world implications of an economy built on fiat and debt, the slow erosion of purchasing power, and the mathematical inevitability of open conflict when deficits spiral out of control. Tom and Robert go head-to-head on the accessibility of Bitcoin for the average person, the limits of technological optimism, and the possible impact of AI and robotics on both meaning and scarcity in human life. If you care about the social, spiritual, and technological destiny of humanity, don’t miss this how-to guide for surviving and thriving in the disruption ahead. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tom Bilyeu?

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• 0:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Their dashboard tracks what comes next based on what your business actually needs. So EIN number, registered agent, licenses and permits, bookkeeping, business banking. I tell every founder the same thing. Just make it official. Click the link in the show notes to check out Taylor Brands and get started on your business today. This is a paid advertisement. Welcome back to part two of this incredible conversation. Without further ado, here we go. There's a reason, very open to what that is, but there's a reason that gold functions the way that it does, which is in times of inflation, people are going to flee to gold. In times of government uncertainty, whether they'll pay back their debts,

• 1:31Tom Bilyeu?

  people are going to flee to gold. They don't expect a big return, they just expect safety. That's right. Bitcoin does not function like that yet. Maybe it will one day, or maybe it's something that people think of in a totally different way. And I'm just like, I have a take. I think I know why it is, but I could be wrong. And so I'm just curious what you think the answer is. So far, it sounds like you're saying it's just new. And so as it grows, it will probably function more like gold in that its volatility will go down because the, it's just raw size will go up. But I was just curious if you think that people mentally map it differently now? If they see it as... As a sexy thing that is sexy precisely because it's high volatility.

• 2:15Tom Bilyeu?

  And so they want in, they're going to ride that volatility, they're going to day trade against it. They're going to do all the fun things that people wouldn't do with gold. Uh, and then if that's correct, if you think that um, it's inevitable that that changes, but it remains a gold like thing, or if it stops being the cool new thing and we move on.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Hmm. Yeah, well, people buy assets for all kinds of reason, right? Like, um, how people arrive at their conclusions is often beyond me. But I will, this is where I think it's very important to be a fundamental investor, or at least take it a perspective on fundamentals of the asset.

• 3:02Speaker 01

  One of the most important answers to the question, what is money? In my opinion, for me, at least in my journey, was when I arrived at the properties of money. Like, what are the actual, to use um, language, this was language popularized in the 1960s by a guy named Gibson, who wrote a book, An Ecological Approach to Visual Perception. And he talked about affordances, that organisms actually perceive affordances, which are opportunities for real action, right? And he, you know, it's very, it's kind of an interesting thing. He makes the point often that they're neither subjective nor objective. It's about a fitness relationship between the subject and the object of world.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  And so we could either call these the properties of money, or we could call these the affordances of money, right? Obviously, there's a monetary metaphor built into that word, affordance. I, and people narrow this down to a different number of categories, but I've always narrowed it down to five, and it's divisibility, durability, recognizability, portability, scarcity, right? So when we evaluate gold through that lens.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  It's very divisible, it's very durable, it's not very portable. As we said earlier, that's why we needed currency, right? It's somewhat recognizable, we have to do tests on it, that's what, that's where we get the term "sound money", you would drop a coin from a certain height and it would make a certain sound, and that was a heuristic for its authenticity. And then importantly, gold is relatively scarce, it has an inflexible supply, which lets it hold purchasing power across time well. Okay, so as a money, it excels in all of the affordances or properties of money, except portability. That's why we needed currency, right? And then we get into the whole money warehousing thing and the fractional reserve banking scam. Now evaluate Bitcoin through that same lens. It has basically perfected all the properties of money.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  It's infinitely divisible, it's divisible right now to 100 million subunits called "Sats". You can increase that divisibility via a soft fork, which is a backwards compatible software upgrade, so there's like, it's like a non contentious change, basically. So effectively it has infinite divisibility. Its durability is also infinite, uh, this is where it's good to think, as we talked earlier about the idea of a concept versus the thing. The example I often like to cite is the Bible, right? You could go out into the world and go on a Bible burning campaign, but no amount of Bible burning would ever destroy the Bible. Like, the concept of the Bible has so thoroughly permeated consciousness that it will exist forever.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  Bitcoin runs on the same principles, right? It's like, it's everywhere and nowhere, as Bitcoiners say. So every node has the full history of what Bitcoin is. So the durability of it is effectively perfected. Portability, because it's just information, it can move at the speed of light, can't get much faster than that, so portability is perfected. Recognizability, which again is the ability to authenticate or verify the money is what it says it is, right? It's, this is a real gold coin, not a lead, piece of lead plated with gold, right? Like, you have to verify what it is. You can audit the total Bitcoin supply, uh, in fact, this is what Bitcoin does. Every node on the network is auditing the work of every other node, mining or otherwise, every 10 minutes.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  So the entire system is like 100% verification and 0% trust, right? You don't need to trust, no "trust me bros", if you will. And then finally Bitcoin is the only fixed supply asset in the history of the human race. So it's perfected that inflex- that relatively inflexible supply that gold had that gave it a really good ability to store purchasing power into the future. Bitcoin has perfected, right? We have a fixed supply asset so that your purchasing power will not be debased at all. Not 2%, not 5%, like nothing, zero, right? When you look at Bitcoin on a fully diluted basis, there's only 21 million that can ever possibly exist. The number can only go down from there. So that's why I think Bitcoin

• 7:08Speaker 01

  is like, you're asking me what it is. Today, it trades as a very significant risk on asset, right? Which means people are speculating on it, people are leveraging, whatever, right? It's high volatility, right? So it tends to be in the risk portion of people's portfolio. But it's fundamentals, what it is, it's digital gold, internet and gold had a baby. You mentioned gold is the ultimate risk off asset right now in the current world, right? Bitcoin's better than gold fundamentally. On those same properties that make gold a good risk off asset, make Bitcoin the perfect risk off asset. So we are at a unique time

• 7:49Speaker 01

  in history where the world perceives Bitcoin as the ultimate risk on asset, speculative, volatile, dangerous, whatever. And the reality is, it is the safest, most perfect form of private property available to the human race. And so that recognition will dawn on people through the market process. And it's just up to you to, you know, study Bitcoin, do the work and decide for yourself. But that's my view.

• 8:14Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay, so we've got this perfect risk off asset, plus we have gold, which is, which stood the test of time. And we have a currency in the US dollar that is inflating like crazy. We're at 122% debt to GDP and rising. There's a magic line at 130%, where essentially you're guaranteed to be in open conflict within your country, often revolution, often turning the tables over, defaulting on the debt. Absolute economic catastrophe. We're racing towards that. So given that we have a problem that I'll peg, I'm not trying to put these words in your mouth, but I'll say somewhere between eight to 10 years, you cross that line.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  Of the 130%?

• 8:59Tom Bilyeu?

  Yep. And you, I hope people can already feel that we're already heading towards the open violence. It's already begun. And so it's not like a binary switch that we get there and then it clicks over. It will just get worse from here. And we have an exit ramp, whether that's gold, whether that is Bitcoin. So how do you see this playing out? Do you think I'm crazy and that it's never going to end? Party's just going to keep going. We're all going to be fine. Or is it going to be people start taking that off ramp, which then further craters the dollar because there's no appetite for treasuries, which not to lose anybody new to the conversation, but just know if there's no appetite for treasuries,

• 9:39Tom Bilyeu?

  your country goes broke. The appetite for the treasuries is entirely based on confidence.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  And money printing.

• 9:48Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, money printing is what will drive the lack of confidence. So

• 9:52Speaker 01

  Well, I'm saying money printing is used to buy those treasuries too.

• 9:55Tom Bilyeu?

  So it

• 9:55Speaker 01

  Yes, but that's why it's self-defeating.

• 9:57Tom Bilyeu?

  The confidence.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Exactly. This is why fiat currency is an oxymoron. Okay, another definition of money, the final extinguisher of debt. What is fiat currency? A debt-based money? It doesn't make any sense. It's a can't like the dollar you have in your pocket or your bank account, you think is an asset, but in fact, there's a liability attached to it. So in accounting, we have an equation, assets equals liabilities plus equity. Right? If I own a piece of gold or I own Bitcoin, I have an asset that's 0% liability because it's a bearer asset and 100% equity, have 100% equity in the assets. All the value is mine. Right? You would think the same thing about a dollar. Oh, if I have a dollar, it's a bearer asset, it's mine. But what you don't see is that invisible

• 10:41Speaker 01

  liability sewn into it, right? You could stuff all the dollars under your mattress you want. That doesn't stop the Fed from counterfeiting it by the trillion and stealing your purchasing power. So it's, you can't even own it, right? Because it's not property. It's not private and it's not property, right? Just like they joke about the Federal Reserve. It says federal, it's federal express and it has no reserves. All right, the entire thing is a fucking scam. And I'm sorry, like, to put it that way, but this, I share your frustration. It's like, I've done my best to point to the books. I try to make it as accessible as possible. I know I may have talk, tendency to talk a little bit heady sometimes, but I-

• 11:17Tom Bilyeu?

  Do you see us as on a timeline? Or do you think that this is sustainable?

• 11:21Speaker 01

  Of course, I think statism always degenerates and I just don't, what is the opening line to that police song says?

• 11:31Tom Bilyeu?

  Don't stand so close.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  Have no faith in constitution, there is no bloody revolution. Fuck, I'm forgetting the words now. But the, the point is this, like, you can't violently, you can't socially organize people with violence and coercion. It's not sustainable.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  It's not sustainable, right? If you're just gonna scare people and steal from them, they're gonna look to get out of that system and betray you and backside you every chance they get or overthrow you, right? And if they overthrow you, then they install their new coercive government and the process repeats. You know, what did you say earlier? The two things you wanted people to understand, uh, something like money printing bad, right?

• 12:15Tom Bilyeu?

  So far, so good.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  What was the second one?

• 12:17Tom Bilyeu?

  That your government, if it's deficit spending, they are stealing from you.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  They're stealing from you, which all deficit spending is funded by money printing. So those go hand in hand. I would hope you would add a third or consider adding a third, and that is taxation is theft. Taxation is theft. The whole thing's stealing from you. The inflation steals from you, the deficit spending steals from you, and the taxation steals from you. So what we need to do as a species is evolve past the idea of legalized theft as a necessary ingredient of social coherence, because it introduces the opposite. It's just like fiat currency, the debt-based money, the idea that we're gonna coerce ourselves into unity doesn't work. What do we need? We need really strong private property, really good incentives,

• 13:02Speaker 01

  and diminished profitability of coercion and violence. And I think that's where Bitcoin, that's probably one of the deepest perspectives to take on it, that idea that, okay. It can't be printed as money, so that defunds the war machine. It's also really hard to steal as money.

• 13:20Tom Bilyeu?

  And you're saying it defends a war machine because we can't possibly tax enough to pay for it?

• 13:25Speaker 01

  So you could check my numbers on this.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  I think it was, I think it was $8 trillion the United States spent on the war on terror. My numbers might be wrong, but the point will stand. Say it was $8 trillion we spent on the quote unquote war on terror. Giant air quotes here because it's really just genocide and imperialism. US spent $8 trillion in a 20 year period. The Federal Reserve printed like $8.5 trillion during that same time period. Okay. Whatever it worked out to be, it was something like the cost of that was $80,000 per US household. So had the money printer not been available to fund the war on terror, every American household would have been sent a bill for $80,000 saying, hey, here, you know, pay your fair share of us.

• 14:12Tom Bilyeu?

  Here's the bad news, they were sent a bill for $80,000. They just don't realize it.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  That's right. Exactly. So the plausible deniability by elimination of the money printer, you're eliminating the plausible deniability of the state where they, they can't print the money to go to war. So they have to send you that bill. And then people resist, right? It's become visible, it's become legible, people see it.

• 14:34Tom Bilyeu?

  All right, so if those are the things that we need, are we moving?

• 14:37Speaker 01

  Finally, because Bitcoin's hard to steal, like you go back to the example of like when Germany invaded Poland, right? The first, once they've conquered Poland, what do they do? They go to the central bank and they seize the gold, right? Why? Because war is expensive and I need the money to go and do more warring. Okay. If that were magically on a Bitcoin standard and Poland had their Bitcoin in a multi key, well, Germany would have conquered this country and then it got no payoff. So the incentives to violence and coercion, even at scale, go down by virtue of the existence of Bitcoin. This is what I think changes and tilts us toward like an evolution in human consciousness even perhaps. Like what, maybe we don't understand how responsive to incentives we really are.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  And that by virtue of changing the incentive landscape so fundamentally.

• 15:23Tom Bilyeu?

  So wait, are you saying that as we move towards Bitcoin, we are less likely to go to war?

• 15:29Speaker 01

  Yes, I think war is less possible. It has to be paid for with explicit taxation, which people are more likely to resist. I also think that should war ensue.

• 15:42Speaker 01

  Triumphant countries will not be able to seize the assets of losing countries so easily in a Bitcoinized world. Bitcoin is very difficult slash impossible to steal if custodied properly. So it's like, we have changed the fundamental grammar of the entire game of being human. And so now we have to reevaluate all of our social institutions, layer by layer, and reimagine it in a Bitcoinized world. Of course, it's not just Bitcoin, right? We also have the internet, encrypted communications, decentralized internet provisioning, energy production, flying car. Like, there's a lot of things that are giving more power to the individual and reducing the power of collectives over the individual.

• 16:23Tom Bilyeu?

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• 17:08Tom Bilyeu?

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• 17:51Tom Bilyeu?

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• 18:36Tom Bilyeu?

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• 18:49Tom Bilyeu?

  We're back. Let's dive right in. I know you don't pay a lot of attention to politics, but are you watching closely enough to be encouraged or discouraged by the change in policy around crypto?

• 19:03Speaker 01

  I don't give a shit. TikTok next block.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  Bitcoiners do not fucking, I mean, I'm sorry, I don't want to generalize. I, as a Bitcoiner, do not give a flying fuck about what regulations you're passing or not passing or doing. It doesn't matter. It's like, you can also ban gravity, but gravity's not going anywhere. Okay, so there are things that government cannot do anything about, and Bitcoin is one of them.

• 19:28Tom Bilyeu?

  So interesting. This might be where I start. It's so funny because I'm so pro Bitcoin, but I think that that mentality coming off the Bitcoin community is so detached from reality that I'm always very confused. So the world has a structure. There's nowhere that you're going to go, that you're going to escape. The fact that there are governments. I know that Balaji believes strongly in the network state. Hey, Lord knows, if I'm wrong, I'll be the first to congratulate Balaji. But the fact is that if Hitler rolled up and you've got Bitcoin,

• 20:10Tom Bilyeu?

  Hitler's going to smash 30,000 of you in the head and the 30,001 person is going to hand over their keys. If you kill enough people in the country, you just take everything else like you money print, you do whatever. And violence is the ultimate trump card. And I've always had a very jarring ring when people are like, they can't confiscate your Bitcoin. It's like, yes, they can. Maybe they can't confiscate yours. Like, maybe you really will take the bullet to the head and just be like, I'd rather be dead than you get my money. But the vast majority of people will not be like that. They'll try to lie and all of that. But the the real thing, and I think this is maybe the crusade I'm on, I need

• 20:52Tom Bilyeu?

  people to understand the nature of the government itself. And the nature of that government is that it wears a mask. And we are finally living in the age of rapid information. There's such volume and velocity of information that we can finally see things for what they are. And maybe you're helping me map why this moment for me is so bothersome. As I see people embrace socialism and vote for a candidate who's very charismatic and very smiley. But at the same time, he represents a sinister ideology. And I need people to understand it's not sinister because I feel some kind of way about it. It's sinister because I

• 21:32Tom Bilyeu?

  believe that starving people to death is evil. I believe that taking the things that are theirs is evil. And it's knowable that it will have to do that because it isn't efficient at coming up with pricing, right? You already said that at the beginning that hey, something is mundane is like, how much did this cost is going to be born of decentralizing that answer that humans that trust themselves too much become a murderous menace to the world. And so when I hear the WEF get together and say, you're going to own nothing and you're going to be happy, or God bless Bill Gates, even if he has good intentions, just

• 22:15Tom Bilyeu?

  trying to like, solve all these problems by himself, rather than letting things be more of these bottom up solutions and creating incentive structures for a whole bunch of people to compete to like, become That that's where I'm just like, oh, man, this is, this is people that trust themselves too much. They will end up saying something akin to, you've got to break a few eggs to make an omelet, which means I've got to kill, you know, a couple hundred million of you. Is it really that big of a deal? Like, it's so wild. And so getting people to understand that the founding fathers really had it right. They were super paranoid about themselves, that they understood that we tend towards tyranny, that whatever system you have has got to plan for the fact that it tend

• 22:58Tom Bilyeu?

  towards, tends toward tyranny. There is a reason that Jefferson said that you have to, like, wash in the blood of tyrants and patriots alike, or something like that, like, basically.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  The tree of liberty must occasionally be refreshed with the blood of tyrants and patriots.

• 23:15Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes. So it's like, yeah, kids, like, they're trying to point out, this is the nature of the system. And so, living at this part, where I've gotten to taste both like, hey, when this is going well, and people are disciplined, and we're not deficit spending, and we actually have a surplus, like, those times are pretty rad. And so, but getting people to understand this is all downstream of culture, and what you teach your kids matters tremendously. And we are not teaching people a story about hard work, discipline, that you should want to save your money, work in the

• 23:54Tom Bilyeu?

  summer to be ready for the winter. Like, there's just, like, old school fable-type morals that we've got to get across to people, otherwise things get very, very bad, very fast. And it is wild. And I do, I really appreciate the people in my community that remind me, I'm not screaming into the void, there are some people that are listening. But it is, this all started for me in COVID, when I realized, oh, these people that used to work for me, they grew up in the hood, they're all going to get eaten alive, they're all going to lose their jobs, it's going to suck, let me make some financial content for them, about how to save their money. And then I realized, I actually don't, like, I'm good at making money, I'm not good at investing money. So, damn, I got to kind of learn about this. And then you start

• 24:37Tom Bilyeu?

  Pulling all these threads and all of a sudden you're like, wait, the government's stealing all your money.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  It was.

• 24:41Tom Bilyeu?

  It has been such a wild.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  Bitcoin rabbit hole.

• 24:44Tom Bilyeu?

  Awakening. It's partly Bitcoin and I, whenever somebody throws a flag and is like, well Bitcoin just solves all your problems. I'm like, you understand the vast majority of people just are never going to understand it. So it's like the vast majority of people, they do not want a high volatile asset. It's too scary. It's too confusing. I think governments have a moral obligation to allow people to do that. I think that the current administrations change on crypto and being pro crypto is the right answer.

• 25:16Tom Bilyeu?

  It is, it is good things from an administration that is still stealing your money. And so it's a, it's a bit of a mixed bag.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  Well, it's a lot. I think, well, I think you're doing good work and I think I largely agree with you.

• 25:37Tom Bilyeu?

  Zoom in on the part that you don't agree with.

• 25:41Speaker 01

  I mean, I view this as the invention of the printing press under the reign of the medieval church type of innovation. Right? So.

• 25:50Tom Bilyeu?

  Where we go to 30 years of war, kill millions across Europe.

• 25:53Speaker 01

  Possibly, but it calls into.

• 25:56Tom Bilyeu?

  Do you really think that?

• 25:58Speaker 01

  Well, I think that the relevance of the dominant institutional paradigm today, which is the nation state, is going to be seriously called into question by the emergence of Bitcoin. In the same way, the dominant institutional paradigm of the medieval church was called into question with the invention of the printing press.

• 26:16Tom Bilyeu?

  And what replaces it? Network states or something else?

• 26:19Speaker 01

  Well, a more peaceful, productive and innovative world. Now, what does that actually look like from a political slash social organization standpoint? I don't know. Right? I think what we need is more experimentation. So we have 200 nation states today, you know, I'd like to see us move towards a world with like 20,000 free city states. You know, and you could run experiments and you, if you want to be a socialist, great, fucking there's socialistville over here. Go live there, do your own thing. You know, when it fails, then it'll become capitalistville. You know, that type of, of paradigm. So.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  It's Bitcoin, you know, it's easy. There's a saying too, that science advances from funeral to funeral. Yeah. Right. So it's easy to say, oh, people are scared of the volatility. No one understands it. No one's ever going to adopt it. It's like you're taking a very static view of the human race. What are people actually doing is that they're individually pursuing their self-interest. They're looking for the best tool for the job. And over time, as money printing, government intervention, coercion, crime creates more of these problems that Bitcoin solves, you're going to create more demand for Bitcoin. Right? We like adults

• 27:41Speaker 01

  today might not understand it, but kids that grow up with Bitcoin as part of their, their milieu will understand it, you know, if not intellectually, then by necessity.

• 27:53Tom Bilyeu?

  We're hitting pause for a moment, but there's plenty more ahead. So don't go anywhere.

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• 29:32Tom Bilyeu?

  All right. Thanks for sticking with us. Let's jump right back in. How many people own gold?

• 29:40Speaker 01

  I don't know the answer to that question.

• 29:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Basically, nobody. It's been around for thousands of years. I'm just telling you, the average person, just, they're never gonna do it. Like, the only punchline is, uh, people must become aware of the nature of government and hold their government accountable. And maybe that's also never gonna happen.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  I think there's a lot of people that own gold. The American culture's not a gold-owning culture, but Indian culture, Chinese-

• 30:03Tom Bilyeu?

  10% of Americans own 93% of the assets. So I'm just telling you, in, in America alone, 90% of people own fuck-all-for assets. That includes gold. So it just, it doesn't happen. Most people are so caught up in their day-to-day lives, trying to make ends meet, that, uh, they don't think to invest in anything.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  That's my key point, though, is that the trying to make ends meet over time will become more and more of a requirement to have Bitcoin to make those ends meet.

• 30:32Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, so I think what you mean is-

• 30:34Speaker 01

  If you're trying to escape hyperinflation, or you're trying to escape capital controls, or you're trying to escape outright seizure, right? Whether you're a broker, you're a billionaire, wealth redistribution, or whatever the thing is, like, you will need recourse to non-state digital cash to do that.

• 30:48Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, but it's been available forever, and people don't do it.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  It's been available for 17 years.

• 30:53Tom Bilyeu?

  No, no, no, you're thinking of Bitcoin. It's been-

• 30:55Speaker 01

  Gold's not, gold and Bitcoin are not the same.

• 30:58Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes, but-

• 30:59Speaker 01

  You cannot put $100 million of gold up your ass. We already talked about this.

• 31:02Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, but nobody cares about that. Like, look, I get-

• 31:04Speaker 01

  People do care about that.

• 31:05Tom Bilyeu?

  No, they really don't, man. They really don't.

• 31:07Speaker 01

  You don't think people care about fleeing with their purchasing power intact?

• 31:10Tom Bilyeu?

  No, I don't.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  If you have the option, someone's invading you, and you're like, oh shit, we gotta leave.

• 31:15Tom Bilyeu?

  Yes.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  Do we wanna leave with all of our money or none of our money?

• 31:18Tom Bilyeu?

  In that moment, people would suddenly care. But the vast majority of people just are not thinking about that. It's like, literally, in, in this interview alone, the number of times that I've thought, uh- Because you're so smart,

• 31:33Tom Bilyeu?

  I don't think you make contact with the people that like, for them, this is just like, what? They have no idea what you're talking about. The, the lack of fear for you is because you know how to navigate the world. So your fear is proportionate to the amount of things that you think will catch you off guard. And you think very few things are going to catch you off guard. And that's probably true because you have an intellect. The bad news is half of people are dumber than the average person. So I'm just saying, you just have to look at the numbers. Like there are a few numbers that are just like, oh, 90% of the, 90% of people in America just don't have assets. Like, that's wild.

• 32:14Tom Bilyeu?

  So we are in a situation where if the government is abusing you, it's game over. And I'm just saying, the government doesn't have to abuse you, but it is currently because people don't understand uh, how to deal with that. So listen, I'm hardcore Bitcoin. I don't want anybody to be confused. I'm just saying Bitcoin does not solve the problem I'm trying to solve, which is how do we make sure that the average person is not being just absolutely economically raped? And then they wonder like, what the hell is going on? I can't make ends meet. This is crazy. And if you say Bitcoin is the solution, it's like saying garbledy gook. Like, what?

• 32:51Speaker 01

  No, look, I mean, I, I don't know. I feel like I agree and disagree with this. So it's um, Bitcoin can prevent people from being economically predated upon, right? Or economically taken advantage of, right?

• 33:04Tom Bilyeu?

  For sure.

• 33:04Speaker 01

  It does definitely.

• 33:05Tom Bilyeu?

  You just have to get people to hold Bitcoin.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  You have to understand it, right? So this is why like a lot of Bitcoiners just say, just study Bitcoin. Like you have nothing to lose now. But the, I think maybe the deeper point of disagreement is you have, you seem to be having this pessimism on kind of the intellectual capacity of the human race.

• 33:22Speaker 01

  And I would agree, like you look out in the world today, there's a lot of idiots and there's people voting socialist into office. And like, yeah, okay, there's a lot of dumb shit going on. But when I look across human history, like how far we've come, where I really think we're very adaptive and we have developed cultural norms and intellectual norms and mental math and spoken language. Like we've developed a lot of things that we didn't have a thousand, 5,000, 10,000 years ago. So I think our capacity to evolve. Makes me very optimistic about the more distant future. Now, the point of transition could be choppy, could be dicey, could be the collapse of the medieval church in the 21st century type of thing like, who knows? But I'm optimistic about the tech, digital technology-enabled future.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  And I think that we are engaging in like a reciprocal reconstruction with these machines, right? That I, when the incentives to violence go down, I think people will become less violent.

• 34:18Tom Bilyeu?

  What do you think about AI?

• 34:22Speaker 01

  Very mysterious, but a massive productivity enhancer. So, anything that increases productivity is going to increase the purchasing power of money. And I also think AI is if they're going to interact and, you know, engage in any economic activity between themselves, will have to make use of Bitcoin.

• 34:42Tom Bilyeu?

  Do you think that we become post-economic?

• 34:44Speaker 01

  No.

• 34:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Ooh, say more. You're the first person I've heard say no to that.

• 34:47Speaker 01

  Space and time will always be scarce. And the wants of the human heart will always be larger than, you know, whatever is available, no matter how much is available. We will all, people will always, what does it say? Man's reach always exceeds his grasp. We always want more. So, that is the definition of scarcity. Wherever demand exceeds supply, there is scarcity. Okay? So, I don't think demand can ever be fully satiated.

• 35:11Tom Bilyeu?

  But what do you do in a world where there is an entity that's better than you at everything?

• 35:16Speaker 01

  Oh, you do what, well, first of all, if it's better than you at everything and it's solved like a lot of the economics problems, well, then you don't have to really work for a living, right? You have all the food and luxuries you could possibly want at the snap of a finger, in theory. What do people do? I don't know. Do they, you know, go on busying themselves with the furtherance of the human race? Do they do some artistic things? Do they go explore the stars? Like, what? I don't know. We're explorers. Who am I to say what we will do, but I don't think scarcity understood in the proper economic sense is even possible to be eliminated. The closest thing we could get to is if we broke thermodynamics and developed free energy, right? Or zero point energy, as as Friston's called it.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  And then you would really have like anything you wanted at the snap of a finger. Be pretty close to post economic, but you still can't occupy the same space at the same time. You're still immortal, like there's still scarcity, even in the, even in that like kind of heaven on earth scenario, you still have scarcity.

• 36:19Tom Bilyeu?

  So you think there'll be some sort of competition for Malibu real estate as an example?

• 36:26Speaker 01

  Well, I don't know about that per se. I'm saying demand will always exceed supply in at least some categories, right? Like not every category, air is a good example, right? We don't price air because the supply is so super abundant, even though it's very essential to life. Our demand is less than the supply, so it's not scarce. So we don't price it, we don't fight over it, right? But other goods, gold, food, water, et cetera, we do price and fight over those things. So I don't know which specific asset categories would be, you know, possibly become non scarce. But I don't think all could become non scarce because again, space and time, how are you going to make space and time non scarce? I mean, maybe you solve death and make people immortal, it's okay.

• 37:11Tom Bilyeu?

  I think you will.

• 37:12Speaker 01

  Fix time. I don't believe in that either, but how do you solve space?

• 37:17Tom Bilyeu?

  How do you solve space? Meaning that, yeah, so going back to the Malibu real estate thing. So that is an interesting question. I'll get to that, but let me speed run what I think happens.

• 37:32Tom Bilyeu?

  Given that there's essentially nobody anymore that says that compute will asymptote. So it's just going to go on forever. The gap between a definitional moron and Einstein is only 2.4x.

• 37:46Speaker 01

  What does that mean?

• 37:47Tom Bilyeu?

  That Einstein was only 2.4 times smarter than a moron who's at like a 70 IQ. So yeah, moron has a definition. I think it's 70 IQ roughly. So I ran the math once Einstein was 2.4x in IQ that. So that's the difference between the US government won't even use you as cannon fodder in the military because you'll cause more problems on the way to getting shot. And being able to intuit the physics of the universe. So that's 2.4x. Now imagine something that's 1000x, right? So you get into the point where energy costs will be zero. Once energy costs are zero.

• 38:31Tom Bilyeu?

  Do you mean actually zero or near zero? I mean actually zero. So you think we're going to break thermodynamics? No, I think that robotics and material science will get to the point where you can capture more energy from the sun than everybody using everything at all times during the day, no matter how much, whatever they're doing, like they just will never be able to reach the amount of energy that is being kicked off by the sun. Okay. And given that, we'll be able to get that level of energy. And the first wave of robots will cost money, but Optimus is already, already today, as of the recording of this podcast, coming off the line at 20K. There, I am going to be getting a $1,000 robot for my house, one for each floor, I'm not kidding,

• 39:17Tom Bilyeu?

  to run security. Those are all ready for sale at $1,000. So labor is going to drop to nothing when energy drops to nothing. That certainly happens within the next 30 years, probably a lot faster. But let's just say 30 years. So 30 years from now, energy costs are zero, labor is zero. Now it's we're post scarcity at that point, except for there'll be occasional things like we can't occupy the same space and people will fight over that for sure. And Bitcoin. And so the question becomes like, what are we doing about that? It's just Bitcoin becomes a question of is there some small number of things? And we say Bitcoin is the thing and whoever has the most, like that's who gets that? Maybe that could very well be true.

• 40:00Tom Bilyeu?

  But the real thing for me is when that happens, meaning and purpose is gone. And that's where I think this all changes.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  Why does meaning and purpose have to be gone when we're in conditions of super abundance and freedom?

• 40:14Tom Bilyeu?

  Because of the way the human mind works. So evolution-

• 40:17Speaker 01

  So we need to be load bearing or challenged to have meaning?

• 40:20Tom Bilyeu?

  Correct. Yes.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Okay, so you fear that with no challenge, no load to bear, we're just going to be aimless?

• 40:26Tom Bilyeu?

  That is correct.

• 40:26Speaker 01

  Hedonistic.

• 40:28Tom Bilyeu?

  That's one of the four paths. So I see there's four paths before us. Path number one is you go to Mars and you play a survival crafting, open world game on hardcore mode. Option number two is new Amish. So you reject technology, you go live on a field like a Mennonite. Option number three is a brave new world, what you're talking about, drugs and sex. And then option number four is Neo in the Matrix. So you live inside of a virtual world, but you're awake and so you're essentially eternally playing a video game where you can optimize the challenge perfectly, have real relationships inside of it. That's the future. Like that to me is exciting, but it is a very different world, a very different-

• 41:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, I mean, I hear you. I find it to be optimistic though. I mean, when I see productivity, optionality, freedom, purchasing power, all these things going up and the incentives for people to, you know, violently accord themselves with one another going down, these all seem like arrows pointing in the right direction for me. Now, loss of meaning, sure, we're in a meaning crisis. I don't know if you've talked to John Verveki, he's my favorite guy to listen to. So many, so many levels of brilliant articulation of the problem and like tracing it all the way back. Like it's amazing. I'm not saying Bitcoin's just gonna like fix the meaning crisis, but we definitely have a big issue. Like as far as

• 41:57Speaker 01

  engineering problems we can solve for immediately, like this one's just obvious. It's like your entire global economy runs on a scam. How about we just stop that first? Then we can start dealing with the meaning crisis and all these other things. So I am not a pessimist about innovation. I think that-

• 42:21Speaker 01

  It is what makes us human, the fact that we make tools, the fact that we create things that then again reciprocally enhance us in a way like we're in this, we're kind of like co captains in our own evolutionary process. And so I'm excited about these things. Of course, they bring new challenges, but I don't subscribe to a worldview in which, man, we've solved scarcity or almost solved scarcity. And now everyone's like, man, life sucks. There's nothing to do. It's like, what are you talking about? Like we, I don't, I would think we'd be exploring the stars, or maybe we invent teleportation, or maybe we're going to other dimensions, or maybe there's a psychedelic revolution or a religious

• 43:00Speaker 01

  awakening. Like I think people will find something to do. And the difficulty of all of this is that we are living in the statist paradigm. So that anything we say, any speculation we make about the future, we're sort of interpreting it through that lens, you know, oh, people are dumb today. Oh, people don't have meaning. It's like, that's why it's important to look backwards, right? They say if you don't know where you come from, then you don't know where you're going. And so looking at the progression humanity has made across history, I think, gives me a lot of optimism about our future trajectory.

• 43:33Tom Bilyeu?

  I love it. All right. I would stay in chat forever, but I gotta get to the airport. Where can people follow you on your journey to do all that amazing stuff?

• 43:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. Thank you for coming to Miami and doing this. Always fun. I'm at Breedlove22 on X and then whatismoneypodcast.com.

• 43:52Tom Bilyeu?

  I love it. All right, everybody. If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care. Peace. Let's talk about a pattern that is guaranteed to be killing your progress. You know what you need to do. You need consistent nutrition. We all do. You need vitamins, probiotics, greens. We all know that we should be doing more of it. When your morning gets chaotic, you skip it. When you travel, you skip it. When your routine breaks, everything tends to break and that inconsistency compounds against you every single day. AG1 is designed to solve the execution problem. One scoop, eight ounces of water, and you're done. You're getting 75 plus ingredients. Vitamins and minerals, pre and probiotics, nutrient-dense superfoods,

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