Don’t Listen to Anyone: Casey Neistat on Trusting Your Instincts & The Principles That Guide A Creative Life

Today marks my third conversation with the singular Casey Neistat. Does a guy who has amassed over 100 million total views on his YouTube Channel — not to mention 1 million views daily — really need a formal introduction? Unlikely. But if for some reason this exciting filmmaker has eclipsed your radar, you can read my in depth thoughts on his extraordinary life and listen to our prior conversations HERE (RRP #73) and HERE (RRP #144). If you're well on board the Casey train, you’ve witnessed quite an evolution in his recent trajectory. Since Casey began daily vlogging — posting a new movie on his YouTube Channel every single day since March 27, 2015 — his already incredibly popular YouTube Channel has exploded, growing from around 500,000 subscribers to well over 1.1 million in less than five months. On average, each vlog amasses around 500,000 views. This one tops out at 1.5 million (which incidentally has absolutely nothing to do with what occurs at the 4-minute mark): A major network television show would kill for these numbers. But Casey has no interest in such matters. He's not making videos to capture the interest of the system he consciously placed in his rear view. For Casey, YouTube is the finish line — a juggernaut channel he built all by himself. DIY on the most democratic video platform in the world. And that is far more powerful and compelling than anything HBO, NBC, Disney or any other traditional mainstream outlet could ever offer him. Ever. If you’re not yet hip to his channel, get on it. A unique voice delivered with expert filmmaking acuity, each and every movie hooks you emotionally and never fails to captivate. His movies are so popular in fact, crowds of people congregate daily outside his downtown New York City studio, pining for a mere glimpse of the populist artist. And now thanks to the new social media video sharing platform he co-founded called Beme, Casey can add technology entrepreneur to his expanding resume. Intended to change how we view and use social media, Beme allows users to post successive 4-second video snippets without the opportunity to preview, review or even view the clips before they publish. By altogether dispensing with the opportunity to edit and filter, the big idea is to promote honesty, authenticity and ultimately empathy through shared experience. Rather than sharing the well crafted and highly filtered version of ourselves we want the world to see, Beme is about sharing our point of view the way we actually experience it. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

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• 1:03Speaker 01

  No one knows anything. And the trouble with respecting the fact that no one knows anything is that you don't really have an appreciation of that until you've achieved a level of success. And then when you arrive at success, you look back and you're like, shoot, the only reason why I got here is because I ignored everyone and I followed my own instincts. I wish I had just known to ignore. I wish I just knew to ignore everyone from the beginning because it would have gotten me here faster.

• 1:30Rich Roll?

  That's filmmaker, artist, and tech entrepreneur Casey Neistat. And this is the Rich Roll Podcast.

• 1:50Rich Roll?

  Hey, what's up, podcast people? How you guys doing? I hope you're having a good day. Maybe you're stuck in traffic. It's going to be okay, even if the kids are screaming and loud in the backseat. Maybe you're at the gym, or out on a run, or on the treadmill. If you're cooking, don't burn dinner. Remember to pick your kids up at soccer. My name's Rich Roll. I am your host. This is my podcast, the podcast where I sit down with the outliers, the big forward thinkers across all categories of positive paradigm-breaking culture change. Conversations aim to educate us, to elucidate and inspire all of us to simply unlock and unleash our best, most authentic selves. So... Thank you so much for tuning in, for subscribing to the show on iTunes, for subscribing to my weekly newsletter, for giving us a review on iTunes, and for always making sure

• 2:35Rich Roll?

  to use the Amazon banner ad at ritual.com for all your Amazon purchases. The banner ad is right there on the podcast page. It doesn't cost you anything extra, and it's just a simple, great, free way to support the mission. I really appreciate everybody who's made a habit of that. It really does put some nice wind in our sails, so thank you so much. Got Casey Neistat back on the podcast today, his third appearance on the show, and it's great talk, great talk. But before we go any further, I just wanted to take a minute to thank everybody who listened to the last episode, Shame Can't Survive the Light, and for making a point of reaching out to me. It's been kind of amazing. The last couple of days I've been slammed with just these really stupendous, incredibly

• 3:19Rich Roll?

  supportive and heartfelt emails and comments and Facebook posts and the like. And you guys have no idea how much this means to me. I mean, the fact that you would write me at all, let alone kind of like talk to me about personal things that you're going through and the challenges that you faced, means so much to me. And I gotta tell you, it was a really weird feeling posting that episode. I felt incredibly vulnerable, incredibly exposed. And the next morning I woke up, I didn't sleep great, I was feeling really fragile, and I just avoided the internet. I didn't check anything online, I didn't check my email. And even though I was super tired, I just, I felt like I needed to get out on my bike for a couple hours and kind of blow the pipes out, shift the energy. And

• 4:02Rich Roll?

  when I got to my office later that day and went online, I was really like brought to tears by the reaction. It's really incredible. So, from the bottom of my heart, thank you. You have no idea how much you guys mean to me. It's been an incredible journey, so thank you for taking it with me. But before we go any further, let's take care of a little business.

• 4:31Rich Roll?

  All right, Casey Neistat, you know this guy, right? Artist, entrepreneur, filmmaker, YouTube sensation, daily vlogger, and now tech entrepreneur with his new social media video sharing platform called Beam, B-E-M-E. Casey's been on the show twice, episode 73 and 144. If you did not listen to those yet, I would check those out. They're both fantastic conversations. And over the course of that period of time, if you've been following him, then you've been privileged to witness quite an evolution. First off, an absolute explosion of growth in his YouTube channel, which went from something like, I don't know, 500,000 subscribers the last time we sat down, to what is now well

• 5:12Rich Roll?

  over a million in just the last few months since he started daily vlogging, posting a new movie every single day. And each one of these daily vlogs amasses something like 400,000 to 500,000 views, which is incredible, right? And he's getting over a million views a day, a day, on his channel. This is rarified air. To put it in perspective, these are numbers that a network television show would absolutely kill for, and Casey did it all by himself. So if you're not yet hip to his channel, I would get on it. He has extraordinary filmmaking acuity, and his daily movies are always captivating. He's an amazing editor, there's great music and wisdom, and I can tell you that they are highly addictive.

• 5:57Rich Roll?

  And if that's not enough, he recently launched his new app called Beam, again, B-E-M-E, and it's free in the App Store. I was fortunate to be a beta tester on it, and I've been really enjoying it. It's now available for everybody. In certain respects, I think it's fair to characterize it as somewhat of a Snapchat analog, but also quite different. You post these four-second videos without the ability to edit them, or view them, or even preview them. They just post, and the idea behind this, in the most simplistic sense, is to really promote more authenticity and transparency, and ultimately empathy in sharing our daily experiences, right?

• 6:37Rich Roll?

  So instead of, you know, sort of sharing the version of yourself you want the world to see, you're actually sharing your point of view of the world and yourself, the way it actually transpires in real time, which I think is special and very cool. In any event, when I was in New York City in July, my daughter Mathis, who's 11, and I, dropped by Casey's Epic Studio for another chat, and Mathis chimes in, which is really fun. It's her first time on the podcast. And unfortunately, this conversation transpired prior to the Beam launch, when everything was still super top secret. So we couldn't get into that exciting aspect of his life, which is perhaps, unfortunately,

• 7:19Rich Roll?

  the most relevant aspect of what he's doing right now. But it just is what it is. Apologies for the delay in posting this, but at this point, I've amassed like this huge library of interviews. So that's why there's a little bit of delay between the interviewing and the posting. Anyway, there's always so much to mine with Casey, and this conversation definitely does not disappoint. I love this guy. I'm in awe of his creative output. I'm in awe of his work ethic and his commitment, really, to providing all of us with not just his compelling point of view, but now with a new tool whereby we can all share our lives in a more honest and empathetic way. So, without further ado, let's step into the life and the studio of Casey Neistat.

• 8:07Rich Roll?

  So I feel like, first of all, thanks for taking the time.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  Pleasure.

• 8:11Rich Roll?

  I'm super busy and everything like that. And I feel like, so we're sitting down for episode three of the Casey Neistat Files.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  I love that this is becoming a serial.

• 8:21Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And I was thinking back, and I'm thinking, well, the first time we did it, we kind of like told your story. And then the second time was kind of like the Snapchat era, and now we're into the vlogging era. Because the last time we talked was pre-vlog.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it was.

• 8:35Rich Roll?

  So now we're, what, 85? 86?

• 8:38Speaker 01

  I think so. Wow. I think you know better than I do. But yeah, I usually screw up the dates about once a week.

• 8:43Rich Roll?

  I mean, it's tough for me to keep up watching it. So I'm like, you know, I get a little email alert, another video is uploaded. And I'm like, oh, my God. Like, the discipline and the relentless, like, you know, momentum it takes to like, keep that going. Like, I can't imagine. I think- I think people must like underestimate the amount of work that that must be.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't think anyone has any idea. It's, my wife doesn't underestimate the amount of work. She has this cute thing she does every night when she goes to bed, which is like, we have these like sliding pocket doors from our bedroom to our living room where she stands at the pocket door and salutes me like a soldier. As she slides the door shut and it clams in front of her.

• 9:22Rich Roll?

  Are you done editing yet?

• 9:23Speaker 01

  Put my head down and just get started.

• 9:25Rich Roll?

  But I have this feeling that, that you're up, you must be up editing till like one or two in the morning most nights.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, so usually like, I would say a fast edit is a four hour edit and average edit is a six or seven hour edit. And I usually don't start until like eight or nine. Maybe if I'm lucky, I can start around seven, but usually it coincides with the baby going to bed. So it's usually eight when I start. So yeah, if you do the math, it's a, it's a pretty late.

• 9:48Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean to maintain like the high level of quality as well. Like I think people think, oh, it's just Casey, that's what he does and he knows what he's doing and you just rip him out. But like, there's no way, man, like, that's a lot of work. Cause you're probably, I mean, what is the ratio of what you shoot to what ends up in the vlog?

• 10:04Speaker 01

  It's, it's less that and it's more like what, what does it take per minute of finished vlog? And I think at my fastest, at my absolute most efficient, it's an hour per minute. Meaning it takes me 60 minutes to complete 60 edited seconds.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  You know, cause it's like, I, I don't shoot all day long. I'm not a, a daily sort of typical, kind of like journal, uh, journal vlogger. I'm friends with those guys.

• 10:33Rich Roll?

  Like, like Ben Brown?

• 10:35Speaker 01

  Ben Brown, who's a total hero of mine and fantastically talented and just amazing human being and like, um, Louis Cole, Fun for Louis. Also like a, just an unbelievable guy who lives this like lifestyle that's, that's, that's absolutely incredible. And then he shares his lifestyle on his, his vlog and that's specifically what he does. So it's, it's, he's filming all day long. So when he sits down at the end of the day, he really has to reassemble his day. And that's, you know, that's really different from what I do. I actually literally just did a vlog about this subject matter this week, but it's like, in, instead I try to find one thing. One thing that either occurs to me throughout the day or one thing that I experience or one idea that I want to compartmentalize. And that's what each vlog is about.

• 11:20Speaker 01

  I really like the term vlog. But really, it's like I just try to turn out a movie every day. And I think that like if I called it anything but a vlog, people wouldn't understand it. So I just, I default to vlog.

• 11:30Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right. Well, a couple of observations with that. I mean, you are very, yeah, they're very kind of idea focused as opposed to just, you know, here's what, you know, I had breakfast and then I went to the coffee shop, you know? And that's kind of the, like, as cool as a lot of those daily vloggers are, it's hard to remain engaged with that. But you're very concise in, in what you're attempting to communicate with each episode. Like, they're, they're their own standalone entities.

• 11:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's the difference. I think that people's relationships with typical vlogs are a relationship with the creator exclusively. Meaning, you know, like Louis, I love Louis' vlog because I love Louis. Like, I don't care what he's doing, I just want to follow him around. And I think that's like, that's such a wonderful relationship to have. But I don't think I'm that interesting. I don't think I'm interesting enough to warrant that. So I try to make people engage with, beyond me, just like engage with the ideas that I try to communicate or the things I want to talk about or the things that I'm interested in.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  Because none of the ideas or none of the, none of the subject matter that I tackle in the vlog is exclusively mine. It's all sort of universal ideas. That's why I think the Q and As are probably my favorite, my favorite thing to do and like my favorite learning experience of what is now, whatever it is, eighty-five days of vlogging.

• 12:48Rich Roll?

  Right. Did you think when you set out to do this that, what was your estimate of like how long you'd be able to maintain it?

• 12:57Speaker 01

  You know, I don't know. I like, I started it for a couple of reasons. Mainly in that, you know, I started this new company and this new company, the demand, it's not a filmmaking company, so the demands on me were, were pretty tremendous and it didn't have much alignment with me making movies. So this idea of a daily vlog was like an insurance policy against that. It's sort of forcing myself to create a new movie every single day. And I think ultimately, the marriage between the new company and, and the vlog will have sort of a natural relationship. It's a relationship that has yet to sort of... Happen because I'm still not really publicly talking about the company because we have some nonsense that we have to deal with before that can come out.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  But yeah, I guess, I guess, I thought it might last a month. I thought my most ambitious was like it'll get me until I can talk about the company. And I'll use this vlog to announce the company. But now I just think it's certainly my ambition now is to keep it going kind of indefinitely and to maintain a lot of the conversations. By conversations, I mean like the Q and As and those interactive aspects of the blog. To maintain that as long as I can possibly do it.

• 14:07Rich Roll?

  But there's kind of an ironic mad genius aspect to it because rather than it being a distraction from the new company, all it's doing is like fomenting all this like, you know, mad speculation about what it is. And there's like subreddits devoted to like.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  I've seen that. I've seen that chaos.

• 14:24Rich Roll?

  You know, everything from like, where do you get your boots to, you know, what, you know, everybody like sort of taking stabs at the dark about what it is you're actually doing, which is fantastic because everybody's waiting with bated breath to find out what this is.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And look, I make no apologies. Like, I really want this vlog to be the mouthpiece for the new company. And, you know, we're building a product for the masses and I, I want the vlog to be about promoting that and educating people about that. And I think it's a cool, really interesting opportunity. But certainly like, look, the vlog has manifested into something that is so much bigger than that. And it's manifested, I'm just gonna hit pause really quickly because to apologize for this horn honking and all this chaos.

• 15:06Rich Roll?

  We're in New York City. This is what it's about.

• 15:07Speaker 01

  But just to paint a picture for the.

• 15:08Rich Roll?

  It helps people feel like they're in your studio.

• 15:11Speaker 01

  To paint a picture.

• 15:12Rich Roll?

  I'm not apologizing for that.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  Okay, apology redacted. To paint a picture for the audience at home, like looking at my monitor right now, which is the, the view of the street outside. So my office is a second story office with uninsulated windows. There's just a very thin pane of glass between us and the street. And because it's second story, it's at the exact height of the exhaust pipes of every bus and truck and garbage truck that goes by. So it is like wearing stereo headphones of the loudest dump truck you've ever heard. All day long, every day. So that's what you're hearing behind us.

• 15:45Rich Roll?

  The Double Decker tour bus just drove by.

• 15:48Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, I think they heard that.

• 15:49Rich Roll?

  You missed an opportunity to get the megaphone out and...

• 15:52Speaker 01

  They should be paying me for those tours.

• 15:54Rich Roll?

  I know. Well, what do you... How would you... I mean, it seems to me that it is really... I mean, it's blown up your YouTube channel for sure, right?

• 16:02Speaker 01

  It's also changed the dynamic of the YouTube channel dramatically.

• 16:05Rich Roll?

  And the demographic of people that are interested is so broad. Like, it's from young kids all the way up to... Like, I have friends in my mid to late 40s, and they're like, "Yeah, I watch it every day." So you have this ability to connect with such a wide, you know, diverse group of people that are, you know, basically looking forward to what you have to say every single day. I mean, that's a cool thing. And you see it in your daily experience of just skateboarding down the street, and people are, you know, calling your name out and wanting selfies and all that kind of stuff. Like, it's this crazy, bizarre, like, you know, internet superstardom that... So I guess my question really is, like, how has it changed your daily life other than the creative practice of being engaged with just doing it every day?

• 16:49Speaker 01

  Well, it's very flattering. And the engagement that I've had with the audience is something that is both unexpected and really exciting. And it's a little bit of like the tail wagging the dog situation, but it's forced me to be like, okay, why... What are people reacting to, and why are they reacting to that? And that is what has sort of forced this new direction in the vlog, or not new direction, but it's forced the narrative of the vlog, it's furthered the narrative of the vlog, into something that is not a daily journal of what I've been up to. If you look at the very first ones, I started on my birthday, and on my birthday, we happened to be on, like, family vacation. And honestly, I was like, "This is gonna be the best ever, 'cause like, I have a fun vacation, and I get to show people, like, this cool beach,

• 17:33Speaker 01

  and my kids, and like, all this fun stuff." In the very first vlog episode I did when I returned back to my normal life is me saying to the camera, "I don't know what I'm gonna talk about now."

• 17:42Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:43Speaker 01

  And in retrospect, I think like-

• 17:44Rich Roll?

  I like sustainability issues.

• 17:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:46Rich Roll?

  Like, where are we gonna go with this?

• 17:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, and the irony of that is that when I look back at those first couple of vlogs of us like in this beautiful tropical island, I think they're boring. Like, um, because it's asking the audience to care about, you know, like, my day-to-day sort of what I'm up to, um, versus having it be about something broader, having it be about these dynamic ideas. So, when I say the tail wagging the dog, I mean that like, by forcing a further examination of what it is I'm discussing and people are talking about it, it really furthers what I want to explore myself. And, you know, yesterday's vlog was all about this sort of obscenely ridiculous Chinese mini Segway preposterous thing that I have, and like, so many people have asked me about it that, um, and this is a very literal-

• 18:33Rich Roll?

  It's getting out of control, by the way.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  This is a very literal-

• 18:36Rich Roll?

  Let's move on, you know?

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Very literal example, but so many people have asked me about it that I was like, "Okay, well then, let me figure out what this thing is." And I did a bunch of research and I uncovered all this stuff, like, there's all these, um, third-party companies here in the States that are just importers, that are buying these things from China, slapping a sticker on them, and then charging five times what they cost wholesale, and if they're pegging these things at almost $2,000, we can order them straight from China for 200. Uh, anyway, so now I'm educated, way more so than any person at any, any, any business being educated, about these stupid, plastic, Chinese, motorized skateboard things. And that examination is me reacting to what the audience is really interested in.

• 19:16Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  So I think that symbiosis is what's, what's really led the vlog to what it is today.

• 19:22Rich Roll?

  Right. Uh, well, the motorized unicycle that's sitting right behind me right now, I feel, has become like the, the underappreciated bastard stepchild, because you're so infatuated with the hoverboard now that the poor, the poor unicycle-

• 19:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:36Rich Roll?

  Not getting used to it.

• 19:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, look, the, the hoverboard is like, ah, I hate that this, it's, first of all, it's taking over my whole life.

• 19:43Rich Roll?

  Uh-huh.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  But it's also, it's everything I've ever wanted, like, when I was a child. It's all of my childhood fantasies fulfilled. I think it's better than the hoverboard that like, that Michael J. Fox had in Back to the Future, because it's motorized.

• 19:57Rich Roll?

  They should be reaching out to you.

• 19:59Speaker 01

  I don't know that they speak English.

• 20:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're in this phase right now where, you know, the process of creating this, you know, a new movie every single day has kind of forced you to be in that kind of creative mindset of like constantly creating and constantly in like an idea generation mode. So what does that process look like? I mean, do you like wake up in the morning and go, oh, I can make it about this today? Like, is there any organization to how you come up with how, you know, what the vlog is going to be about? Or is it just a spontaneous kind of, oh, here's what I'm thinking about right now?

• 20:33Speaker 01

  You know, it's hard. I can't underscore that enough. But the vlog is not my number one priority. You know, my number one priority is like family. Number two, right behind that is like running a company. And then somewhere in there is creating this vlog. So there are some days when I'm doing like really fun, exciting stuff that I'm so psyched that I get to share. And those are the days that I'm really excited about the vlog. And then there are other days where it's just like I'm incredibly stressed out and anxious about it. And I don't want to do it. I really don't want to do it. But there's one sort of universal truth, which is that like every morning when I click the upload button, it's such a satisfying sensation. It's such a satisfying feeling of accomplishment, of like quantifiable accomplishment.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  Like I created something and then I shared something. And that in itself is the ultimate motivator. I know you're asking more about the mechanics, but that, that in itself is the ultimate motivator to keep going.

• 21:31Rich Roll?

  I think, I think, yeah. No, I get that. And I think what I'm getting at is actually a little bit even more behind that, which is like the process of like fostering that, you know, that creativity, like and keeping it, you know, keeping it fresh and keeping it consistent because. It's a practice, you know, and it's hard work. It's not like, oh, it just is coming naturally and this is easy. Like, this is something that you have to work at, and it's a lot of work.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, it doesn't get easier. And honestly, it's like figuring out what to talk about is sometimes really easy and sometimes it's really burdensome and really, really challenging.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  You know, I have a fun idea for today, so the stress today isn't what to do, but like, how the hell am I gonna pull that off before 8:00 a.m. tomorrow morning, when it has to be posted? So the stresses are multifaceted, but the consistency among the stresses is that it's constant.

• 22:27Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  It never subsides.

• 22:29Rich Roll?

  But I would imagine there's this idea, like, there's the temptation to take a day off, but then there's the chink in the armor, right? Because if you take a day off, then it's easier to take another day off.

• 22:38Speaker 01

  I mean, you know...

• 22:39Rich Roll?

  And just to keep the momentum going is...

• 22:42Speaker 01

  You know, you should know more than anyone, as a guy who's eaten nothing but raw kale for the last 20 years of your life,

• 22:48Rich Roll?

  Not that long.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  That like, if you had one bite of a delicious, deep-fried bacon donut, that your entire universe would be thrown off kilter. And like, that's how I feel about vlogging. Like, I know that if I were to take it easy and be like, "I'm gonna shift to three days a week", that it would just kill everything.

• 23:05Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  So like, this self-imposed deadline of every day is really like the number-one motivator.

• 23:13Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  And that doesn't mean that I won't shift tides, because this is, and I wanna make this abundantly clear, this is not sustainable.

• 23:19Rich Roll?

  Yeah, at some point, right?

• 23:21Speaker 01

  Every man has his breaking point, and I am quickly approaching mine.

• 23:26Rich Roll?

  So Reddit can be like having a lottery of like, how many days is it gonna be before we miss a day?

• 23:30Speaker 01

  If there were an over-under, I would, yeah, I don't know where I'd put it, but...

• 23:35Speaker 01

  And when that happens, like, when I shift, I don't know what it will become, but I can tell you that like, for the last five years, you know, pre-vlog, I had made 100 movies in five years on YouTube. And I had a hungry audience of whatever it was, 120 million views or whatever it was. It was a really successful YouTube channel. And my goal was to upload every two weeks. And if you look at my upload history, one, like, just do the math, two, every two weeks divided by five years does not equal 100 movies.

• 24:03Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  But I never, I never met that. And there's really, very little self-accountability there, because two weeks was such sort of an ambiguous date, and there wasn't people waiting.

• 24:15Speaker 01

  So that deadline is something that like drives me. It's like I have in my other office, which I'll take you to see next, but I have this, I call it a motivational poster. And what it is, it's a cheetah chasing after and killing and eating a gazelle. And it plays that on a big screen TV on a loop. It's like 40 seconds and it plays on a loop and the entire staff over there stares at it all day long. It plays 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 40 seconds.

• 24:44Rich Roll?

  Plays in the middle of the night, you never turn it off?

• 24:46Speaker 01

  It never gets turned off. And the reason why it never gets turned off is because that is a metaphor for life. Like we are the gazelle and we are running and there is a cheetah chasing after us that is strong and it's hungry. And the minute you slow down, the minute you take it easy, the minute you take a breath, that cheetah's still running, it will catch you and it will tear your heart out. And I think understanding that-

• 25:10Rich Roll?

  That's what's gonna happen on the day that you decide to take a day off.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  Well, that's, I mean, that's what it is. That's what that metaphor is referring to. And I mean that in every capacity, in every aspect of life. Like, you know, this morning, I went to bed last night at whatever it was, three or four, and then this morning my alarm went off at six. And then I had an hour worth of email. And then like I had a meeting at nine, so it's 7:00 AM. And then I have a meeting that I have to be ready for. And it's like, there's no way I can get out of the house right now. But that cheetah was getting close. So I like threw my running shoes on and got out and got my seven and a half miles in. And it was like barely made it to my breakfast meeting in time. So when I say like, you know, the cheetah's chasing after you is a metaphor for everything, like sure, like there are always opportunities to slow down. And I look forward to taking

• 25:56Speaker 01

  a break at some point in my life. But right now is like, is absolute go time for me in every capacity.

• 26:03Rich Roll?

  And as you're like sort of expressing yourself creatively through the vlog, you're also in this place where you're growing out of being kind of, for the most part, like, you know, a solo, singular, you know, creative artist into this more, I mean, you've always been entrepreneurial, but much more entrepreneurial and working in a team construct, right? So how do those like worlds of like entrepreneurship and creativity like- How are they complementing each other? And what have you had to kind of learn and grow into as you sort of, you know, you have employees now and like it's a whole kind of different ballgame?

• 26:37Speaker 01

  It's tough. I mean, being a filmmaker and owning a production company, which is what it's, the story's been for the last five years and it is like a, it's a maybe benevolent, but definitely dictatorship. I'd like to think of it as a benevolent dictatorship, meaning it's my way only. And that meant if I wanted to take a speaking engagement in Singapore and disappear for a week and a half and go over to Singapore and screw around and talk for an hour and get paid for it and have fun, like I didn't care what was going on with the company. I had someone here to keep an eye on things and that was it. But when you have, you know, our team is like 11 strong right now and they're all like incredibly capable individuals and that is not a hierarchical team.

• 27:20Speaker 01

  Like when you're doing what we're trying to do over there with a team as qualified as our team is, like that is not a, there's no hierarchy. It is absolutely a collaborative environment. We're all, we're all busting our respective asses to get done what is our own set of responsibilities. And my, my role in that is no greater and no less than anyone else's over there. So it really does package things in a radically different way. The responsibility is much, much, much greater and is much more intimidating. And you're not thinking for yourself, but you're thinking for yourself and the entire team that's standing behind you. So it's intimidating and it's scary.

• 27:57Rich Roll?

  And what is like the biggest lesson that you've had to learn?

• 28:00Speaker 01

  I think that question might be a little premature. What is the biggest?

• 28:05Rich Roll?

  It's coming. It's coming down the highway soon.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:08Rich Roll?

  I mean, it's required you to kind of grow as a business person, obviously, but you know, were there, have there been unexpected things that you didn't, you didn't realize you were going to have to kind of manage? I mean, you, on some level, I would imagine you'd become a little bit more of a people manager than you're used to, used to doing.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean.

• 28:25Rich Roll?

  Even if you're not the boss, I mean, if it's a team aspect of it.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  Sure. You know, getting into sort of management structures is like, those are all things that I'm, I'm really confident in and honestly, like the transferable skillset that is running a movie set with 40 people on it to running a company is, is, is, there are a lot of parallels there. So I have a lot of confidence with that. If anything, if I had to draw like my, my biggest sort of singular conflict, it's, it's balancing making this vlog, it's balancing sort of maintaining a

• 28:54Speaker 01

  Relevant in a public profile, which is really important when launching a consumer product. Like, I want people to care about what it is that I'm doing. And the only way that I can keep people really engaged is by maintaining this gigantic open dialogue via these social outlets and the vlog and every other way that I connect with people from like, when like that weirdo says hi to me in the street, who I'm always psyched to meet, to like, you know, somebody tweeting at me. And I want to keep doing that. And I love doing that. I love creating, I love staying in touch with people. But that absolutely butts heads with, with running a company. So finding the happy medium there and figuring out a way that they complement one another rather than conflict with one another, that's, that's a constant struggle.

• 29:44Rich Roll?

  What do you think is the biggest misconception about you? Or, you know, people project, you know, they see their, the vlogs, they watch the videos or whatever, they construct this idea of who you are and, and, you know, whether it's through comments or tweets or whatever, like, what, is there something, is there some idea out there floating around about you and your life that you would like to disabuse people of?

• 30:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, everybody thinks I'm really, I'm really rich. And that's one that, I know, you're laughing appropriately, but that's one that I think is really like funny and, and sort of weirdly flattering and, you know, just because like I've, I've been in my life so poor that I've had to choose between buying cat food or buying food for myself. Those cats went hungry, by the way. I thought about eating the cats. But like, I have been truly destitute in life, destitute with a child, and that's very real for me. And certainly now, like, I live a lifestyle that is wonderful and I would never complain about anything. But to characterize me as rich or like millionaires or like, some kid tweeted at me yesterday

• 30:47Speaker 01

  because I posted a picture of what was like a $400 plastic hoverboard, who's like, "You're so rich, it's not even funny." Um, is like a little bit crazy. Like, I definitely don't pay off my credit cards every, like, I definitely carry a balance. I've got a kid who's going to college next year, um, and in the last decade, I've saved up enough to maybe cover the first year. There's not much beyond that. There's like mortgages and there are debts and there's scary stuff and, I mean, I've never been beholden to finances, uh, ever, no matter how poor I was, that I would let it dictate my decisions in life, especially as it pertains to my career. But let's just say like, if money was my goal and if I did want to be rich, there's

• 31:32Speaker 01

  no way I would have dropped everything in the advertising game, which is such a lucrative place to be in and a place that I was really finding my footing in, to start this company. Like, my 2014 to 2015, um, pay decrease will be like, you know, 70%. Yeah, wow. So it's like, again, I mean- But you're, you're doubling down for the long haul. Of course, of course, and even if I wa- I don't care, like, it doesn't matter. Um, I always wanted to be, I always wanted to be like rich and have Ferraris and stuff when I was a kid. And the minute I got to a place in my life financially where I didn't have to worry about how I was gonna pay for my next meal, and didn't have to worry about how I was gonna pay rent, I stopped caring about money. Cause it just like, I don't, like, me having everything I need means, means that I can

• 32:17Speaker 01

  afford dollar pizza whenever I want it. How is the dollar pizza thing going, by the way? It's not going very well, dude. I'm two days into it, I wake up with the shakes, and you might, so let's, let me just paint a picture for your audience about my dollar pizza addiction. Um, my office is flanked, and I literally mean flanked, to the north and the south, by dollar pizza restaurants. I cannot get from my house to my office without walking directly by a dollar pizza place. And then when you couple that with the fact that I usually get to my office around 9:30 in the morning, that is when they're coming out of the ovens fresh every day. And then when you multiply that with the fact that I've usually run a dozen miles and haven't eaten anything yet, like, in the hours before, it really, really shines like a bright light on that dollar pizza.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  Um, and then going home, at the end of the day, they're like, just wrapping up in there and they're like, they got a pie all ready to go. That is my struggle. That is my battle.

• 33:10Rich Roll?

  You gotta work on that.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  I'm trying, man. I'm forty-eight hours into it, but like don't.

• 33:15Rich Roll?

  Well, it doesn't help either. Your other office is, looks like it's got more candy than like FAO Schwarz in it.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, we have a snack problem. And it's because like I ordered all the snacks one time and I got like a thousand dollars worth of Oreos for the team and then my business partner is a very healthy guy, kind of freaked out and he's like, I'm gonna do this. And then he ordered a thousand dollars worth of dried edamame. So I had to sort of counter that with like another ridiculous order of like pure junk food, like five hundred packs of Skittles. And it's just this vicious, vicious cycle that really gets us nowhere. But yeah, that's, that's my.

• 33:55Rich Roll?

  Alright, so I just want you to picture my face every time you go into Dollar Pizza.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  I do.

• 34:00Rich Roll?

  Shame spiral that you will go into.

• 34:02Speaker 01

  Look, I'm two days into it. I'm really proud of myself. This is like.

• 34:04Rich Roll?

  That's good.

• 34:05Speaker 01

  In two thousand and fifteen, this is the longest I've gone without Dollar Pizza.

• 34:09Rich Roll?

  That's good. So, back to this idea of like Ferraris in your lifestyle and all of that. I mean, I think that it's a convenient notion for somebody because they look at your life and, you know, you watch the videos and it's an aspirational lifestyle and it's easier to make the assumption that, oh, it's just easy for you because you have money or what have you. Because to consider otherwise is to flip the mirror and have that person have to look, you know, look at themselves and say, oh, I could make that choice too, or I could do that. And that's the harder thing to consider.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, and look, that's what's, that's the sort of the ugly side of like people, when I laugh because people say how rich I am. That's the other side of it, which is a little bit more harsh, which is like, I can't, I could never fault people for it. Because when I was like, when I was really, really poor, when I was struggling, really struggling financially,

• 35:02Speaker 01

  the only solution that I could see to all of my problems was, was money. And the truth is like when you're really poor, most of your problems can be solved with money. And then the second they're solved, like all your real struggles in life just come into focus. So I have real money problems, just like every other human being.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  But that's no longer sort of my number one priority, like I said, because I don't worry about where my next meal is coming from. I've got that taken care of. So I just like, I just, and I'm also, you know, thirty-four now. So I've sort of been in a place financially for what I would say is seven or eight years where I haven't had to worry about. My next meal, I think I have to worry about like if I were to not have any income for starting today, in two weeks, I'd literally be up Schitt's Creek. And that's still a very scary prospect. But I don't let that bother me. So, yeah, I don't think I'm that different from most people. Most responsible adults by my age have some sort of consistent income. So, yeah, I think that I'm fairly average in that regard.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  And I certainly think that maybe my happiness factor in life, or my satisfaction level in life, is disproportionate to my income. And I think that's something that, yeah, most people might take conflict with, and they love to sort of associate happiness with wealth, which is something I wouldn't know much about, because I don't have enough wealth to tell you whether or not it's true or not.

• 36:24Rich Roll?

  Ah. Yeah. So, we're sitting here, Mathis is here, my daughter, my 11-year-old daughter, my assistant, she's laughing over there. And, uh, come here, Mathis. You'll say hi to Casey.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  Mathis has a really awesome temporary tattoo on her neck.

• 36:37Rich Roll?

  She put a temporary tattoo on her neck, yeah, which I'm not crazy about, but, uh... Hi.

• 36:41Speaker 01

  Mathis, you should get that tattoo made permanent when your dad's not looking.

• 36:45Rich Roll?

  I know. She Instagrammed it, and she said, "What do you think, Dad?" You know, she's like, "Oh, my God."

• 36:50Speaker 01

  Uh, if I could just describe it, it says "thug life" in heat. I'm just kidding. It's a very cute design.

• 36:57Rich Roll?

  Um, so, Mathis is, uh, you know, she's a creative person, and I thought it would be a good opportunity for you, like, if you, if you could, you know, speak to her directly about, you know, if you were to sit her down and say, "All right, here's what you need to know to embark on a creative life. Here are the principles," or "the main things that, you know, are, that you're gonna be, that you're gonna need to rely on to make your way in the world." Like, how would you crystallize that?

• 37:24Speaker 01

  Um, I'd say probably the most valuable piece of advice I could give, and this is very general, uh, I'm thinking, Mathis, that's why I'm not making eye contact with you right now, I'm thinking, uh...

• 37:37Speaker 01

  Is that no one knows anything. And the trouble with respecting the fact that no one knows anything is that you don't really have an appreciation of that until you've achieved a level of success. And then when you arrive at success, you look back and you're like, shoot, the only reason why I got here is because I ignored everyone and I followed my own instincts. I wish I had just known to ignore, I wish I just knew to ignore everyone from the beginning because it would have gotten me here faster.

• 38:04Rich Roll?

  But you figured that out pretty early.

• 38:06Speaker 01

  I didn't have much of a choice.

• 38:08Rich Roll?

  I didn't figure that out until I was like 40.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  I was at war with everyone in my whole universe until I moved to New York City. And that's when I figured that out, is that like, it's not that I was wrong, which is what, how I'd characterize the first 20 years of my life, is everyone telling me I was wrong. It's that I was just in the wrong environment surrounded by the wrong people. But certainly like, in life, like a good rule that I have, Mathis, is listen to everyone, listen to what everyone says, and then ignore all of it.

• 38:38Rich Roll?

  She's giving the thumbs up.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  Because what happens if you do that? Like, I always listen, I always have an open ear, and every once in a while, and I mean seldom, I hear something that matters to me. And this is true with movies that I watch, this is true for television that I consume, this is true for books that I read, this is true for everything that's incoming, advice from friends, thoughts of people that I trust, like, I listen to everyone. And at the other day, you have to ignore most of it because our capacitive, our capability to sort of understand all of this information is impossible, but every once in a while, something hits you that's really relevant, that really affects you and you hang on to that. And the aggregate of that over time is that it's like, who you are is, and who you are

• 39:25Speaker 01

  creatively is an aggregate of things that have really touched you. And in order to do that, it requires ignoring a whole bunch of stuff.

• 39:32Rich Roll?

  But I would imagine you have, like, a few people in your life whose opinion and input you value and trust, who are like... The go-to people like, hey, can you look at this? Tell me what you think. Or do you sidestep even that?

• 39:48Speaker 01

  No, I'm, I'm, I'm, I think someone who...

• 39:52Rich Roll?

  You have to choose those people wisely.

• 39:53Speaker 01

  Absolutely, but somebody who's not willing to sort of seek someone out or seek others out whose opinion you really trust, I think is a short-sighted, very narrow scope on life. For me, I really struggle to find those people because I have such a vivid, such a razor-sharp understanding of what I want out of life and exactly how to do it. So the opportunities for sort of input are limited, which I imagine makes me very hard to work with. But that understood, like, when I encounter people who I really trust, they, I hold them incredibly dear. Right now, like, I'm thinking specifically of, of, like, my professor at MIT. You know, I spent the first half of last year at MIT as sort of a fellowship through the Sundance Foundation,

• 40:38Speaker 01

  and I worked out of the media lab there for, for a semester. And my professor there is this, is this guy who's absolutely brilliant. I think he was given his professor, professorship when he was like 34 or something like that, and sold his first company to Google when he dropped out of college. Like, just, just a brilliant man. But when I started to really understand what kind of a guy he was is when I saw him around his, his then-three-year-old son and seeing how calm and patient he was. And here's, it was having an understanding of sort of the complete package, the full stack of who he was as a person. It blew me away. And he is someone who, who I trust emphatically.

• 41:20Speaker 01

  And he's someone who, when I can get his time and his attention, which is very challenging to do, I have him come in and sit down with, like, each member of the team that makes up my company so they can ask him for advice. And I call him as often as I can, without feeling like I'm taking advantage of his friendship, for advice and things like that. So, no, seeking those people out and sort of finding mentorships in life is paramount, but it's also incredibly, incredibly difficult.

• 41:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I think that that raises the issue of balance. You know, I think that that you're a guy who's prone to extremes, like left to your own devices, like you'd just be making movies all night and all that kind of stuff, right? So, how do you balance family life with the new business, with the vlogging and, you know, the creativity? And, you know, my sense is that, in a macro sense, there's balance in your life. Like, your priorities are straight with your marriage and, you know, raising your daughter and your son and all of that. But on a day-to-day basis, you know, it may swing from this extreme to that, you know, given the, you know, sort of pressures of whatever's happening that day. Is that a fair...

• 42:34Speaker 01

  I think, yeah, I think it's a really astute way to, to sort of look at it. I think that, in a broad sense, there's a lot of structure. In a broad sense, there's a lot of balance. To examine the minutia of it, or see what it's like, like when I chaotically race out of the office at 6:45 so I can get home before Francine goes to sleep, and race home, like Candace just describes it as like, she says, "I'm just like an absolute ball of chaos everywhere I go." And then getting her to sleep and like, hanging out with the wife for one hour before I bust out the computer and then go back to work for seven more hours before I get to bed and then wake up four hours later to go for my run. It is chaos when you look at it up close, but from afar, there's, there's a lot of structure there and there's a lot of consideration there.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  Things like, you know, "I could never marry someone who didn't respect my ambition, respect what I'm trying to do in, in life." So therefore, my relationship with Candace is almost predicated on the fact that I am, I have this chaotic lifestyle. And that's what she married into, and I don't mean that as like a, seeing her as a victim, but like, that's what she's attracted to. That's what she appreciates in me. And I reciprocate that and like, it makes me love her so much more, the fact that like, knowing if she was with, you know, a guy who works a nine-to-five in finance, that she would just be horribly bored and she wouldn't find that interesting. So that, that kind of balance definitely exists, but that's not to sort of marginalize what I would describe as like...

• 44:02Speaker 01

  The day to day struggles of it.

• 44:04Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right. And having raised, you know, Owen, he's going to college next year. Did you just grab?

• 44:10Speaker 01

  He'll be a senior.

• 44:11Rich Roll?

  One more year of high school. By the way, how is like Dunkin' Donuts working out for him? Is that where he's working?

• 44:16Speaker 01

  Uh, Chris, Chris, yeah, Dunkin' Donuts shop. But he, his shift is, uh, he works weekends now because he's, he's, he's in school. He's, he just finished school this week, but throughout the school year, he's been working Saturday and Sunday. So his weekends, his only days with no school and he has to be at the shop at 6:00 AM.

• 44:34Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 44:34Speaker 01

  So he's up at 5:00 or 4:45.

• 44:36Rich Roll?

  That is not an easy job.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  It's a brutal job. It's an absolutely brutal job. Um, but both Candace and I and Owen's mother have seen him grow up as a person in a very short amount of time. So beyond the minimum wage of whatever it is they're paying him, nine bucks an hour, um, what he's being paid or what he's taking away from working at a donut shop is absolutely tremendous. And like, I couldn't be more proud of like what I'm seeing and how that's affecting him. Like, he's gone from a boy to a man in a short time.

• 45:06Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I really liked what you had to say when you addressed that in the vlog. Um, you know, because it would have been easy for you to make a phone call and hook him up at a production company or get some sweet, you know, kind of creative cush job. But, you know, there's tremendous value in kind of, you know, doing the kind of job that he's doing and what he's going to learn through the process of having that experience.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't, I don't, that wouldn't have done him any favors if I had done him a favor. It would have really held him back. And I don't mean that as some sort of like draconian parenting of, of, you know.

• 45:40Rich Roll?

  I'm going to put, I mean, was the job his idea or was it like, hey, it's time to get a job?

• 45:45Speaker 01

  No, there was a, there was sort of a deal and it was, it was a real sort of conflict between the two of us, but I bought him a car for his birthday and the car was sort of. It came along with the fact that he had to get a job.

• 45:56Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  And he struggled in finding a job. And I had to get very, very kind of forceful with him. And forceful with Owen, who's just like the most polite, considerate human being I've ever met. It means that like, you have until this date to get a, a job. Otherwise, like, we're gonna have to sell the car.

• 46:11Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  Um, and that was like, you know, I think that was really, his feelings really hurt when I said that. And it really affected him in a, in a way.

• 46:19Rich Roll?

  That's like dad stuff.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  That's dad stuff. Um, but that was a motivator that like, you know, he applied for a job at the donut shop. And they said no, because he's just some high school kid, um, with no experience. And after that talk, he went back in there physically, asked to speak with the manager. Said, I submitted an application.

• 46:36Rich Roll?

  Oh, my God.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  Why didn't I get the job? And the manager was like, okay, kid, you got the job.

• 46:40Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 46:41Speaker 01

  And it's like, look, his ability to appreciate that, I'm sure is pretty narrow. But looking back, like, you know, I, I've said this so many times where it's like, whenever kids ask me, like, where do you get the ambition? Or where do you get the wherewithal to work so hard?

• 46:58Speaker 01

  I like, I, I say that I found it in the bottom of a disgusting, burnt out chowder pot that I was scrubbing out when I was 19 years old. Because I spent 50 hours a week scrubbing pots in it, like a, not a very flattering, kind of crappy tourist seafood restaurant, which is like just physically the grossest job. But spending 50 hours a week really thinking about where you want to be and what you want to be doing is a powerful motivator. And with Owen, like, if he had a job that he loved right now, I don't think there'd be much of an appreciation or a motive to figure out where he wants to be or what he wants to do.

• 47:31Rich Roll?

  But it's a weird thing as a parent too, because you don't, you don't, you don't wish like, a low bottom on your child. And yet, the value of having that experience informs, you know, the drive and the motivation that gets you out of bed in the morning. So how do you, you know, how do you balance that? Like, as I go through that myself with my kids.

• 47:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just like, you know, I have the luxury of living in New York City and, and knowing a lot of rich kids. Um, I mean, I'm older now, but I grew up with these rich kids. And I used to party with them in my early twenties. And I was so jealous of the fact that I had to wake up. Anyway, I had to wake up the next morning at nine to be at, or at six to be at work for nine. And they just got to sleep in because they had million dollar apartments that their parents paid for and they had trust funds, they had all these things. They never had to worry about anything. And I was like, oh, that's the life. And I look at them now, and I don't mean this in any sort of judgmental capacity, but I look at them now and I see someone who, I see people who have struggled to find their place in this world

• 48:29Speaker 01

  because they've never known sort of the battle. They've never been forced to examine their own ambitions. And that's, that was sort of, that actualization, that realization was what forced me to really appreciate for the first time, all those years of like true struggle for me. And that's like, that's where I realized that like that cheetah's still chasing after me. You've never arrived. That cheetah's always, is omnipresent.

• 48:53Rich Roll?

  Well, we gotta wrap it up because I know you gotta go, but I guess we can end it with like one question. You got an 11, right? You got a hard out?

• 49:01Speaker 01

  I have a hard out, always.

• 49:01Rich Roll?

  I'm not gonna make you end it. I'll end it for you.

• 49:03Speaker 01

  Thank you. I was such a jerk.

• 49:05Rich Roll?

  No, it was fine. You know, I've heard you say, you know, people say, where do you get your motivation? And it's like motivation's not your problem. Like you're a highly motivated person, you're highly driven. You know, but what is something that you could kind of leave the audience with? You know, for people that kind of struggle with that or, you know, maybe struggle with their true north. You know what I mean? Because I think you're very clear on your true north and that drives everything for you, right? And people are kind of grappling around in the dark, trying to search for that. Like, and you know, find that path to the thing that they can really tap into that will give them that natural drive.

• 49:45Speaker 01

  Well, I say this and I really mean this, and it's hard not to, it's hard to say so that sound like I'm pandering or even being condescending, but...

• 49:55Speaker 01

  Everyone has their sort of unique path and goal in life. And the example I like to use here is it's like, probably because I'm just happen to be really good at communicating it, this idea of living this like carefree lifestyle in a big city and having interesting friends and doing the kinds of things that I do are ostensibly like the goal. And I think that's really untrue, like that's the goal for me, but I think a lot of people would be really miserable in my position. And the thing that I often highlight is like my very best friend in high school, closest friend in the world, he's still my closest friend in the world. He and I like, he was very smart, his dad's literally a nuclear physicist.

• 50:35Speaker 01

  And after high school, when I moved to New York City, he got a job in a restaurant. And that's whatever it is now, 16 years later, he still works in that same restaurant. He washes dishes two nights a week, he bartends two nights a week, and I think he waits tables one night a week. And I think from afar, you're like, wow, but look at Casey and look where he is. And I used to be like, why is he still there and sort of struggle with that? But now I look at it, and he might be one of the happiest people that I've ever met. Here's a guy, he's got a beautiful wife, he's got two beautiful kids, he lives in a house, he's got job security, he's got, he literally has more money saved up than I do when it thinks about his kids' futures and things like that. He lives a responsible lifestyle, he's got his hobbies, he's got the things that he's

• 51:16Speaker 01

  enthusiastic about, he runs, he's, he's a really happy human being. And I look at him, and he is a guy who's one of the most successful people I know. And I think to look at someone who's, who works in a restaurant, it's like, well, he's not successful, I think that's bullshit. I think that like, success is defined not by how much, how many cars you have or any of that sort of nonsense, but success is defined by how much of your day are you spent doing something you really hate doing? And I look at him, I look at Joe, and I don't think he spends a whole lot of time spending things he does hate, he hates doing. Maybe he doesn't like showing up at work, but like, you know, when he bartends, he's around the same people. He loves being around them. It's a social job. It's a fun job. He gets to be on his feet. He knows he's

• 52:01Speaker 01

  got the job security. When he gets home, he's got his beautiful wife and his kids. And this guy spends very little time in his life doing something he hates. His life is all love, and therefore, he is an incredibly successful human being. And you look at all the rock stars, you look at all the famous people, you look at all the people that are on the covers of the tabloids for being in rehab and suicide and all of these things, and they ostensibly have the ultimate success of fame, money, and looks and all of that. And like, you know, drugs and all that stuff doesn't equate happiness. So I think it's how you define your success. Do that first, and that's the easiest way to sort of figure out where your moral compass leads you.

• 52:40Rich Roll?

  That's a good place to close it down.

• 52:42Speaker 01

  I hope so. I felt like I was a little bit verbose.

• 52:44Rich Roll?

  No, it was good, man. I like it. Thanks, Casey.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  This was fun. I'll see you again in, what is it, six weeks?

• 52:49Rich Roll?

  I know. Well, like, yeah, whatever it is, it'll be episode four of the new chapter. Hopefully, we can talk about the new business by then.

• 52:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I hope so, too. I'd better be in trouble if we can't.

• 52:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Anyway, man, thanks for your time.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  It was a pleasure.

• 53:01Rich Roll?

  All right. Peace. Plants.

• 53:09Rich Roll?

  Cool, right? I hope you guys enjoyed that. Be sure to check out Beam in the App Store. Again, it's free. You can follow me, and you can follow Casey there. I'm Rich Roll, and of course, Casey is Casey Neistat. And don't forget to subscribe to Casey's YouTube channel if you haven't already. And also, make sure you check the show notes for this episode at richroll.com. I've embedded a couple of Casey's videos there, including a quick Beam tutorial that I think you guys will enjoy, plus a whole bunch of links to interesting articles and information about the stuff and the people that we discuss throughout the podcast. And for all your plant power needs, don't forget to visit richroll.com. We got Julie's guided meditation program. We got nutrition products. We got signed

• 53:49Rich Roll?

  books. We have garments. We have, what else? Plant-powered tech tees. We got sticker packs. We got temporary tattoos. We got limited edition art prints. All kinds of cool stuff to take your health and your life to the next level. Keep sending your questions for future Q and A podcasts to [email protected]. And what else? I've got a couple of online courses at mindbodygreen.com. Click on "Video Courses" there. "The Ultimate Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition" and "The Art of Living with Purpose." Both really proud of those. So, check those out. And yeah, that's it. Thanks for supporting the show, you guys. Thanks for telling your friends. Thanks for sharing it. Thanks for using the Amazon banner at ritual.com for all your Amazon purchases. And see you in a couple of days. Have a great week, everybody. Peace.

• 54:34Rich Roll?

  Plants.