Joy 101: Mary Carillo and Pam Shriver, live from the U.S. Open

Hoda takes Joy 101 to the U. S. Open with tennis legends Mary Carillo and Pam Shriver. "The hardest thing in the world is doing something you've never done before, but... it's fun to say yes to things." -Mary Carillo "Chrissy beat me 18 straight times out of the gate before I got her. And then Martina, while I got her early, she beat me 33 straight times at the end of our career. But tennis brings you together." -Pam Shriver Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb is Presented by CVS. Shop your local CVS, right around the corner. Experience the full conversation on the "Joy 101 podcast with Hoda Kotb" wherever you listen to podcasts. For more information, please visit us at www.joy101.com/podcast https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joy101.com%2Fpodcast&data=05%7C02%7CBrianBurton%40iheartmedia.com%7C3ff86dc45c4e4922bcf408df05709015%7C122a527e5b714eba878d9810b495b9e3%7C0%7C0%7C639235653153026410%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wbHco9faTJxZ3cTgRweZHJYwWUbf%2Fesm4DfsaeIg%2Bk4%3D&reserved=0 See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:08Speaker 00

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• 0:12Hoda Kotb?

  Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb is presented by CVS. I've realized that joy doesn't always come from those big moments. Sometimes you find it on the most ordinary day. I'll pop into a CVS for toothpaste or paper towels, and it never seems to be just a quick errand. Maybe I'll grab a delicious Well Market Trail Mix or wander over to the Joy Word Collection. That's part of the fun. So the next time you're checking something off your to-do list, stop by your local CVS pharmacy. You might go in for one thing and leave with a little more joy. Visit your local CVS pharmacy, sponsored by CVS. Every purchase is a financial decision. So it's worth asking, what am I getting out of this? If you're using the Chase Freedom Flex Card,

• 0:56Hoda Kotb?

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• 3:07Hoda Kotb?

  Hi, guys. I'm so happy to see you. We've got a great, great, great podcast. I love the U.S. Open. It's such a beautiful place to be. And just so you know, I'm about to interview a tennis legend. You know her from many places. She was in 16 Olympic Games as a broadcaster. Do you know who I'm talking about? She's won six Emmys, three Peabodys, and is about to be inducted into the International Tennis Hall of Fame. She won the French Open in doubles with John McEnroe as her partner. And she is somebody I deeply admire. She has a real heart. She is somebody who transcends broadcasting tennis

• 3:52Hoda Kotb?

  and all the rest. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Mary Carillo.

• 4:03Hoda Kotb?

  Queen. Hi.

• 4:07Speaker 06

  All right, wait a minute before we begin. How many of you are here just for the hats? Raise your hand. There we go.

• 4:13Hoda Kotb?

  We need one more hat. We need one more hat for Mary.

• 4:17Hoda Kotb?

  Hold on. Let's get it going. All right, one more for Mary.

• 4:32Hoda Kotb?

  There it goes. All right, good grab. All right, guys. So I just mentioned, Mary, that you are about to be inducted into the International Tennis Hall of Fame alongside Roger Federer.

• 4:46Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 4:47Hoda Kotb?

  Okay.

• 4:47Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 4:48Hoda Kotb?

  This is happening on Saturday.

• 4:50Speaker 06

  Saturday night in Newport, Rhode Island.

• 4:52Hoda Kotb?

  How did you learn about it? And what did it feel like to hear that you were being inducted?

• 4:56Speaker 06

  First, I, first of all, I have to tell you, Hoda is a great American. And we've been to a lot of Olympics together. And she has so much enthusiasm and energy. And I just love sitting next to her. I'm going in with Roger Federer. Here's the deal. To get into the International Tennis Hall of Fame as a player, you, you have to have been out of the game for at least five years. And I'm, I'm going in as a contributor. Still not quite sure what I've contributed, but I've been at it a while. You have to get 75% of the vote from the people who get to vote. I guess I got, maybe they graded me on a curve. I'm pretty sure Roger got 100% of the votes.

• 5:38Speaker 06

  He is the first of all these legends who are going to be going in in the coming years. Rafa will be going in, Serena, and Venus, and Djokovic, and Andy Murray. I mean, it's going to be something. I found out earlier this year, there was a Zoom call. A bunch of people were on it, including the McEnroe brothers. I certainly wasn't expecting to hear. But it's been, it's been a hell of a summer. Hell of a summer.

• 6:07Hoda Kotb?

  Wow.

• 6:07Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 6:08Hoda Kotb?

  I don't know if you guys remember, but Mary did the opening ceremony at the Milan Olympics this past year. Her voice is legendary. We've heard it all over. But before all that, Mary was playing tennis.

• 6:21Speaker 06

  Played a little tennis.

• 6:22Hoda Kotb?

  Mary was playing with a young guy named Johnny Mac, John McEnroe. Is it true that you said to him, you're going to be like best in the country, best in the world?

• 6:31Speaker 06

  We come from a town not far from here, Douglasson in Queens, New York.

• 6:36Speaker 06

  Do we have any Douglasonian?

• 6:38Hoda Kotb?

  Right here. This is so crazy.

• 6:40Speaker 06

  I, I love this country. John and I grew up, I'm two years older than John. We grew up playing at the Douglasson Club. And even when he was this short, he was playing this brand of tennis. He had incredible feel, touch, concept. And we were playing one day. For a while, I could, I could live with him. And then one day, he leapt over me on Court Four, the teaching court at the Douglasson Club. And we sat down on the bench. Remember when you used to drink water out of tennis cans, tennis ball cans? We were sitting there, and I said to John, you're going to be number one in the world.

• 7:21Speaker 06

  And John looked at me. And anyone who knows John knows that this is a true story. John said, shut up. You don't know what you're talking about. And that was my first commentary and my first review was from my friend John. Yeah.

• 7:36Hoda Kotb?

  So you guys played doubles together at the French Open and won.

• 7:40Speaker 06

  1977.

• 7:41Hoda Kotb?

  What was it like playing with, with him, alongside him like that?

• 7:44Speaker 06

  I mean, John is, as Peter Fleming, his longtime doubles partner, has said about him, John McEnroe and anybody is the best doubles team in the world. So as you can imagine, Hoda, I let him take every single ball possible.

• 8:01Speaker 06

  I was very nervous when we were in the championship match. And he, he got me through it. And that was John's first major title, and tragically, my last. He was only 18 years old. I was 20. And John, he had skipped his high school graduation. The United States Tennis Association wanted him to play in the Junior French Open, Junior Wimbledon, gave him 500 bucks for like a month. He was supposed to live on that. So we ate a lot of chicken pizzas.

• 8:34Speaker 06

  We weren't poor. We just had no money. And, and it was just a remarkable experience. A couple of weeks later, John entered the qualifying of Wimbledon and made it all the way into the semifinals before Jimmy Connor stopped him.

• 8:48Hoda Kotb?

  You know what's so interesting about you? Every time I try to pay Mary a compliment of something great she did, she's like, I don't know how I got in there. John took all the shots.

• 8:56Speaker 06

  He did.

• 8:58Hoda Kotb?

  But here's the thing about you. You were number 33 in the world, which is a big deal. And then you had, and anybody out there who's had something, you know when you love something so much and then something happens and you can't continue? Mary had some issues with her knees, and she knew that was going to be the end of her tennis career. So for some people, that would have been like, oh, God, now what? And my life will start going this way. Your life started going that way.

• 9:24Speaker 06

  Yeah, there was a lot of luck involved with that, honestly, Hoda.

• 9:29Speaker 06

  I was able to get into the, women's tennis wasn't on television much back then. And USA Network started covering it, and they needed somebody. And I had done some pickup commentary at Madison Square Garden months earlier before my last match at Wimbledon. And fortunately for me, a producer there heard me. And he said, you know, do you want to? I was gainfully unemployed at the time. And I said, sure, I'll, I'll do it. I mean, is that how you started your broadcasting career?

• 9:58Hoda Kotb?

  Yeah.

• 9:58Speaker 06

  Yeah, I'll do it.

• 9:59Hoda Kotb?

  I'll do it.

• 9:59Speaker 06

  I mean, if, if I'm not going to be good, someone's going to tap me on the shoulder and let me know. So it started where I was only allowed to call women's tennis. And there wasn't a lot of women's tennis on TV. So I also coached, you know. I did a lot of coaching in between knee surgeries. I've had five. And it just grew and grew. And then I got to do other sports.

• 10:21Hoda Kotb?

  But were you nervous? I mean, when you've never done something, it doesn't matter how many people are watching. Were you someone who's like, I've got to memorize the stats. I have to make sure I get it right. I don't want to make any mistakes.

• 10:31Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 10:34Speaker 06

  You all know this. The hardest thing in the world is doing something you've never done before.

• 10:38Hoda Kotb?

  Yeah.

• 10:38Speaker 06

  But then, once you've done it and you feel good about it, it's something, there's a comfort level you reach. I'm only comfortable when I've done an incredible amount of research. And then I feel grounded and I feel like I know what's up. Tennis, this sport behind, behind you right now, it's the only sport I'm fluent in. Everything else I have to learn, I have to study, right? It's just, you do the same thing. I mean, how many Olympics have you covered?

• 11:04Hoda Kotb?

  My first one was in Torino.

• 11:07Speaker 06

  Torino.

• 11:07Hoda Kotb?

  Whenever that was.

• 11:08Speaker 06

  2006.

• 11:09Hoda Kotb?

  2000, see, she remembered. Yeah, 2006. But Mary has covered so many Olympics. I mean, I want to talk about how you cover tennis, but this is interesting. So someone comes up to Mary at NBC and says, hey, we need you to cover skiing. You know nothing about skiing.

• 11:26Speaker 06

  Well, you don't have to rub it in, Hoda.

• 11:28Hoda Kotb?

  But yet, you said, and I think this is for everybody. You know, you got to jump before you're ready. We're never ready. Sometimes you wait, I'm not ready. I can't do that job. I can't ask for the promotion. I can't try it. I'm not ready yet.

• 11:42Speaker 06

  Right.

• 11:42Hoda Kotb?

  But what you do is, you do it whether you're ready or not.

• 11:47Speaker 06

  Here I come.

• 11:47Hoda Kotb?

  Yeah.

• 11:50Speaker 06

  Yeah, I mean, you know, it's, it's fun to say yes to things and it's, sometimes you get really jumpy thinking about it. Actually, the Milan Games was my 17th Olympics.

• 12:02Hoda Kotb?

  Wow.

• 12:02Speaker 06

  And the next Olympics is the Summer Games in LA in 2028. I hope I'm there. I don't know if I will be. I'm, I'm getting old here. I'm in my dotage now. So, and I've got three grandchildren who I adore, who live 15 minutes away from me. So I'm spending a lot of time with them these days. I, I told you, Hoda, I've got old parents. My mom's about to be 96. My dad's 100. So there are four generations of Corollas within like a 15 mile radius, which is not necessar- Yeah. I've got a lot of living relatives. So, so I'm home more than I used to be, but I love, I love taking on, taking on stuff and I love television.

• 12:44Hoda Kotb?

  I think we spend so much of our lives waiting for the big moments. The birthdays, the vacations, the milestones. But the truth is, some of the happiest moments show up on the most ordinary days. So like this, I'll stop into a CVS because I need one thing. Somehow, the best part of the trip is never the thing I came for. So maybe I'll grab a delicious well-marked snack, or maybe I'll wander over to the Joyward Collection. It's really full of fun, cool, seasonal decor, thoughtful little gifts, and those little discoveries that make you so glad you stopped in. I have to tell you, if you're an Extra Care member, you're going to save on things you're already buying and those extra bucks really do add up.

• 13:28Hoda Kotb?

  Just watching that total go down at the checkout never, ever gets old. I know life's busy. We're all juggling a lot and that's why I think those little unexpected moments of joy matter so much. So the next time you're running errands, stop by your local CVS pharmacy. You may go in for something you need, but don't be surprised if you leave with something that simply makes your day a little brighter. Visit your local CVS pharmacy, sponsored by CVS. Halloween has a funny way of making you buy things you'd never normally buy. A 10-foot skeleton? Sure. A full-size fog machine? Why not? Three bags of candy that somehow become six bags of candy? It happens. Which brings me to the Chase Freedom Flex Card.

• 14:13Hoda Kotb?

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• 14:58Hoda Kotb?

  Offer subject to change. Terms apply.

• 15:00Speaker 02

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• 15:30Speaker 07

  I'm Melissa Jelton and in my new podcast, What Happened to Her? I'm bringing you new stories and conversations every week. Stories about women whose deaths were too quickly ruled a suicide. She was starting to get worried and get scared for her safety. Stories of survival.

• 15:50Hoda Kotb?

  The only difference between me and her, frankly, was a little bit of luck because by all rights, I should be dead.

• 15:57Speaker 07

  Cases that everyone else called closed. They can't convict her, right? Like, she has so much evidence. These stories all start in the same place, with a woman failed by a system that didn't believe her, that didn't protect her, that didn't see her.

• 16:13Speaker 03

  No child should ever experience that. And we were babies. She did all of these brave things and came out and spoke about it and he got a year.

• 16:22Speaker 07

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• 16:35Hoda Kotb?

  Why, I want to ask you about your parents for a minute because anyone who's lived to 96 and 100 and they're together and they've had this life, what, what parenting things did you learn from them? And what did you just learn from them just about living, like longevity?

• 16:50Speaker 06

  I'm lucky. I've got, I've got, I've got very nice parents and they're still around, which is a blessing. My mom really wanted me to go to college. I had, I had some college scholarship offers and she thought, you know, this is going to be great. But I, my, my knees were already, I was already riding on rims in high school. So I knew I didn't, I wasn't going to have a great chance to play professional tennis if I went to the hard courts of college tennis. So my mom had ganged up with my father and said, we have to tell her she's going to college, you know? And, and my father said, all right. And then that night, they, at the dinner table, my mom said, I really think you should take this offer.

• 17:33Speaker 06

  And my father said, you know, Mary, if you want to follow your dream, you should. And my mother's like, what the hell just happened? What? So my, my parents, they've been married 72 years. They are, they are, they are something. They're, they're role models. But they let me do it, you know? But they both ended up saying yes and, and it, it worked out pretty well.

• 17:56Hoda Kotb?

  Was that how you raised your kids?

• 17:58Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 17:59Hoda Kotb?

  Same thing?

• 17:59Speaker 06

  I, I do. I have my, my daughter just had her third child. I've got, I, I've got a six-year-old, a four-year-old, and a four-month-old. I've got, I've got three grandkids. My son is an actor, a very good one.

• 18:15Hoda Kotb?

  Wow.

• 18:15Speaker 06

  And he, he too, he went to Juilliard. He, he, he trained, he's a really, a beautifully trained actor. And I mean, acting is, that's a jump ball too.

• 18:26Hoda Kotb?

  Yeah.

• 18:26Speaker 06

  You know? But of course I told him.

• 18:28Hoda Kotb?

  To go.

• 18:29Speaker 06

  Go for it.

• 18:29Hoda Kotb?

  What did, what did you, knowing that your knees were going to be a problem for you? Will you just give me a little bit more about how you handled that? Because if you have a dream that you love and something you're so good at and everybody knows it and suddenly you're, you're told no, that's the end of that. How did you process all that?

• 18:49Speaker 06

  Yeah, the, I played, the last year I played was in 1980 and I had three top 20 wins.

• 18:54Hoda Kotb?

  Wow.

• 18:54Speaker 06

  And I, my goal, because I wasn't that good, but my goal was to get into the top 20. And my knees were just, they just said this, no, no, you're not going to get there. And when you're playing hurt, and a lot of people, as you know, a lot of, especially the guys on tour, they're all, so many of them are hurting and out with injuries and stuff. So when you are injured, like you're playing a match and you walk on the court and you're, and you're there, you're thinking, I better win this in straight sets. Because if it goes to three and I win, I won't be able to play tomorrow. Like, there's so much pressure just because your knees are barking at you, you know? So there was a lot of pressure, but when it was over, I just, I don't know.

• 19:39Speaker 06

  For no good reason, I felt like I was going to be okay.

• 19:42Hoda Kotb?

  Yeah.

• 19:42Speaker 06

  I started coaching again. I love coaching. I don't think I'm a great teacher, but I think I'm a pretty good coach. It's a big difference. And then, I don't know, I, for some reason, I was optimistic.

• 19:55Hoda Kotb?

  What is the difference between a teacher?

• 19:55Speaker 06

  Well, teachers, you know, teachers give you your strokes. They give you your grips, you know? They, coaching, a coach tells you what to do with the game you've got. So teaching is, and again, I, I, teaching is one of the, one of the hardest and, and greatest jobs there is in anything. And my, I had a great coach, the late great Harry Hoppman, an Australian Davis Cup coach. He was the teacher I most admired from the time I was quite young. If he had been, if Harry Hoppman was teaching violin, I would have wanted to be a violinist. I mean, it just shows you like what, what effect we can have on, on other lives, right?

• 20:39Speaker 06

  I just wanted to please him. I wanted, I wanted him to respect me and know how hard I was training and, and how much I cared about it.

• 20:47Hoda Kotb?

  How did you handle loss when you lost or got beaten badly?

• 20:52Speaker 06

  That happened quite a bit.

• 20:55Speaker 06

  Actually, one of the matches I played, I played against a 14-year-old, this named Tracy Austin, who was still in like middle school or something. She had to go back and forth to this tournament to play and boy, did she beat me. And her strokes were so much better than mine. And, you know, she was little, you know? She was probably 90 pounds, but every time she hit a ball, it was 90 pounds worth of body going into her shot. And I'm flailing around and, and, you know, at, at a certain point, it happened certainly growing up with John McEnroe, at a very young age, Hoda, I knew how good I wasn't. And that makes you work hard.

• 21:38Speaker 06

  Like, if you still like it, knowing that, you know, there's some kind of a ceiling. And it makes you admire people who are doing it so well, so much better. I think so I was, I was fortunate. I took losses, I took losses pretty well. I won a, I won a smaller tournament when I was probably about 21 years old. And I walked away from it and I didn't, I had this feeling, and a friend of mine who was also in the draw, I said, I don't know why this feels so different. And she said, you didn't lose.

• 22:11Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah. I went a whole week and I didn't lose. That's what feels different.

• 22:17Hoda Kotb?

  You know what's so funny? I was listening to some podcast and there was a guy talking about tennis. And he said, there are the top 25 tennis players. And he said, what makes the top five better than the others? Tell me if you agree with this.

• 22:29Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 22:30Hoda Kotb?

  He said, they all train the same because they work really, really hard. They all care about nutrition. They care about their mental health. They care about similar things. They may have similar work ethics. But he said, the difference is, the top five, when they play, have a sheer love of the game. Like, when they hit a winner, they feel it in a way that isn't... Of course, I got that. No, they're not crushing themselves every time they miss a point. Is there... Do you believe there's truth to that?

• 23:02Speaker 06

  I buy into that totally. I mean, anybody who watches Carlos Alcaraz play ball. I mean, not only do we feel joy watching him, but you can tell that he feels it. I love it. There are athletes... That's so interesting. That whole conversation is interesting. There are athletes who can still treat the sport as a game.

• 23:24Hoda Kotb?

  Yeah.

• 23:24Speaker 06

  You know, they still remember what it's like to play as a kid. And it's funny, I was on... Andy Roddick has a terrific podcast. He's going to be here in a couple of days. It's called "Served," if you haven't watched it. And I was on it a couple of weeks ago. And after we were... After the podcast was over, we were still talking. And I'm nervous about giving a speech next Saturday at the International Tennis Hall of Fame because I'm the second banana. Roger Federer comes after me. And I was asking Andy how long it took him to get his speech together.

• 23:57Hoda Kotb?

  Yeah.

• 23:57Speaker 06

  And he said, he wrote it the night before, but he'd been thinking about it. And he said, "I just wanted to remember what it was like as an eight-year-old playing." He said, "Go back to that," which is exactly what I've done.

• 24:09Hoda Kotb?

  Wow.

• 24:09Speaker 06

  I said to Andy, "I'll copy your whole speech." It might confuse people.

• 24:17Speaker 06

  But yeah, I love that idea, that it starts... How many people here play tennis?

• 24:23Hoda Kotb?

  Yeah.

• 24:23Speaker 06

  Right? It starts as a game, right? And there's nothing like, to me, there's nothing like racket sports. It's a beautiful piece of equipment, whether it's badminton, or tennis, or padel, or ping pong, or... It's fun.

• 24:38Hoda Kotb?

  Yeah.

• 24:38Speaker 06

  It's fun. So yeah, I like that idea. I like that idea a lot.

• 24:43Hoda Kotb?

  Wow. I just want to bring up the Olympics one other time because I think it was very important, what Mary did this past Olympics. I think a lot of you know what happened with Savannah Guthrie's mom. And Mary got a call at the last minute and they said to her, "You're going to need to do the opening ceremony." And it was a delicate thing to have to do during that time. And I was watching you and you handled it so beautifully. But that must have felt for you as something heavy because there was a lot, a lot sort of riding on it.

• 25:14Speaker 06

  It was. It was heavy. Obviously, I mean, I know Savannah, not like Hoda. Hoda's one of her great friends, but I've known Savannah for years. And, you know, we were all... I was already in Milan at the Winter Games earlier this year. And we were all heartsick. And it was... God, how do you replace her? She's... So when I got the call, Molly Solomon, who's the head of Olympic sports, she asked me if I'd do it.

• 25:40Hoda Kotb?

  Yeah.

• 25:40Speaker 06

  And yeah, of course I'll do it. But it was a tricky thing because you want to honor the gravity of the moment. But then you want to get to... This is... Then you have to pivot to these athletes. It's the opening ceremony for all their young lives. They've worked for that moment. So you would have been great. You would have done it better than me, Hoda. But I know you stayed back, didn't you? You were supposed to come to the Olympics and you stayed back with Savannah.

• 26:08Hoda Kotb?

  We all did. Yeah, I think everyone did. And I was so admiring you and how you did it. I know Mary can't take any compliments ever in her whole life. And I know it's difficult, but I thank you for trying to take it. And also, just our love and prayers always to Savannah. So, Mary, as you are... What you have, and what I've been watching as you're talking, is the love of the game is in you. The love of the game is apparent every time you call any of these matches. And you've got one coming up today you're calling, right?

• 26:43Speaker 06

  Yeah, Serena Williams is playing with Carlos Alcaraz. 2 o'clock, kids. 2 o'clock.

• 26:49Hoda Kotb?

  You'll be there?

• 26:50Speaker 06

  You're going to be there? Excellent.

• 26:51Hoda Kotb?

  Mary will be there, too.

• 26:52Speaker 06

  I'll be there as well.

• 26:53Hoda Kotb?

  Look for Mary.

• 26:56Speaker 06

  Ah, thank you, honey. Thank you very much. Ah, thank... I'm working here for the World Feed and I get to work with Jim Courier, and Lindsay Davenport, and Jimmy Arias, and Andrea Petkovic, and Laura Robson. I'm working with a great ball club. And obviously, I love the U.S. Open. I grew up on it. I mean, I used to go to Forest Hills when I was a little kid. There was a guy named James Roach. Jim Roach lived on my street in Doggson. And he was the sports editor of The New York Times. So I would score tickets off of him. And then I'd bum rides and I'd, you know...

• 27:38Speaker 06

  God, I just... I loved watching tennis. I mean, there are a lot of beautiful sports. And there are magnificent athletes everywhere. But there's something about this game, right? There's something about this game.

• 27:52Hoda Kotb?

  Well, and Mary, even for people who aren't huge tennis fans, when they watch you, it's contagious. I watched you on Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel for years.

• 27:59Speaker 06

  That was a good show.

• 28:00Hoda Kotb?

  It was... It's all about the real storytelling, the real heart. Like, you connect with the parts of the athletes that... Not the stats and not the swing, but the rest of it. Because really, what connects us to all these athletes is that part.

• 28:15Speaker 06

  Well, Hoda, so I've done a bunch of Olympic Games. And like, every sport is dangerous.

• 28:23Hoda Kotb?

  Yeah.

• 28:23Speaker 06

  Like, every... Like, and so usually when I'm profiling one of the athletes, like, the first question I ask is, "Does your mother know you're doing this? She's okay with this? The aerials and the skiing and the luge and the... It's insane. I mean, winter sports are very different from summer sports, right?

• 28:44Hoda Kotb?

  Yeah.

• 28:46Speaker 06

  But that's the thing. I mean, again, it's such an honor to go into the Hall of Fame with Roger Federer because he played with so much joy.

• 28:55Hoda Kotb?

  Yes.

• 28:56Speaker 06

  He played... I mean, this guy... One of the first questions I ever asked Roger, he was probably 19 still. He hadn't won a major yet, but his game... The first question I asked him is, "Do you know how beautiful your game is?"

• 29:10Hoda Kotb?

  Wow.

• 29:11Speaker 06

  And Roger said, "Yes."

• 29:15Speaker 06

  And then, and he's so... It was a humble brag, but yes. And then I said to him, "Do you try to make it look beautiful?" And he said, "Yes."

• 29:24Hoda Kotb?

  Wow. I love it.

• 29:26Speaker 06

  I mean, Roger, I think people who will honor him on Saturday... And he's playing tonight, by the way, in an EXO at 7 o'clock. That'll be fun, too. I think people... So I think he brought so many people into tennis.

• 29:40Hoda Kotb?

  Yeah.

• 29:40Speaker 06

  They didn't love tennis. They loved Roger.

• 29:42Hoda Kotb?

  Yeah.

• 29:43Speaker 06

  I mean, that's... You talk about joy, Hoda.

• 29:45Hoda Kotb?

  Yeah.

• 29:45Speaker 06

  I mean, that's what Roger's... That's his whole deal, right?

• 29:49Hoda Kotb?

  And as we wrap up this little podcast, the Joy 101 Podcast, I like to ask my guests, what is bringing them joy these days? So Mary, what's bringing you joy these days?

• 29:58Speaker 06

  More than anything, my grandchildren.

• 30:00Hoda Kotb?

  Oh, yeah.

• 30:01Speaker 06

  Yeah. They are amazing. They... I told you this story. I'm with them all the time, almost every day because they live so close to me. So I've got a six-year-old granddaughter, a four-year-old, and a four-month-old. And my four-year-old grandkid just started first Presbyterian preschool. And she's very bright and she's very funny. And clearly, she's been around me too much. She made friends with a little kid named Blake, who cried all last week when her mother dropped her off from school. Anybody here can relate to that? Yes. So the other day, my daughter Rachel said to Neela, "How was Blake today? Did she cry?" And my granddaughter, God bless her, said,

• 30:46Speaker 06

  "She cried in the beginning, but then bada bing, bada boom, she got through it."

• 30:52Hoda Kotb?

  That's all you...

• 30:52Speaker 06

  That's what gives me joy, my grandchildren.

• 30:55Hoda Kotb?

  Oh, love it. All right, ladies and gentlemen, Mary Carillo.

• 31:00Speaker 06

  Thank you. Thanks for listening. Pam Schreiber is on next.

• 31:04Hoda Kotb?

  Yes.

• 31:05Speaker 06

  Where is she?

• 31:05Hoda Kotb?

  The legend is on next.

• 31:09Hoda Kotb?

  I think we spend so much of our lives waiting for the big moments. The birthdays, the vacations, the milestones. But the truth is, some of the happiest moments show up on the most ordinary days. So like this, I'll stop into a CVS because I need one thing. Somehow, the best part of the trip is never the thing I came for. So maybe I'll grab a delicious well-market snack. Or maybe I'll wander over to the Joyward Collection. It's really full of fun, cool, seasonal decor, thoughtful little gifts, and those little discoveries that make you so glad you stopped in. I have to tell you, if you're an Extra Care member, you're going to save on things you're already buying. And those extra bucks really do add up.

• 31:52Hoda Kotb?

  Just watching that total go down at the checkout never, ever gets old. I know life's busy. We're all juggling a lot. And that's why I think those little unexpected moments of joy matter so much. So the next time you're running errands, stop by your local CVS pharmacy. You may go in for something you need, but don't be surprised if you leave with something that simply makes your day a little brighter. Visit your local CVS pharmacy. Sponsored by CVS. Halloween has a funny way of making you buy things you'd never normally buy. A 10-foot skeleton? Sure. A full-size fog machine? Why not? Three bags of candy that somehow become six bags of candy? It happens. Which brings me to the Chase Freedom Flex Card,

• 32:37Hoda Kotb?

  the savvy decision that will earn you more cash back on the everyday purchases, plus the extraordinary Halloween tricks and treats. With Freedom Flex, you earn even more treats on your Halloween and everyday needs. You get 5% cash back on popular rotating quarterly categories, 3% on dining and drugstores, and 1% on all other purchases. More ways to earn, more ways to get rewarded. That's no tricks, all treats. More ways to earn, more ways to get rewarded. So sign up for the Chase Freedom Flex Card. Learn more at chase.com/getflex. This is a paid collaboration with Chase Freedom Flex. Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A. Member FDIC.

• 33:20Hoda Kotb?

  Subject to credit approval. Offer subject to change. Terms apply.

• 33:26Speaker 02

  Running a business means keeping pace with the latest tech. You've put a lot into building your enterprise software stack, and scrapping it to integrate AI is out of the question. That's why IBM Technology works with all the apps, data, and models you need. It's another way IBM helps you build on the technology you rely on. Let's create smarter business. IBM. Visit IBM.com to learn more.

• 33:54Speaker 07

  I'm Melissa Jelton, and in my new podcast, What Happened to Her? I'm bringing you new stories and conversations every week. Stories about women whose deaths were too quickly ruled a suicide. She was starting to get worried and get scared for her safety. Stories of survival. The only difference between me and her, frankly, was a little bit of luck, because by all rights, I should be dead. Cases that everyone else called closed. They can't convict her, right? Like, she has so much evidence. These stories all start in the same place, with a woman failed by a system that didn't believe her, that didn't protect her, that didn't see her.

• 34:37Speaker 03

  No child should ever experience that. And we were babies.

• 34:40Speaker 06

  She did all of these brave things and came out and spoke about it, and he got a year.

• 34:47Speaker 04

  You never know who that devil is because he's wearing a disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform.

• 34:52Speaker 07

  Listen to What Happened to Her on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 35:00Hoda Kotb?

  Guys, I have another tennis legend in the house. Pam Schreiber has won 20 Grand Slams alongside Martina Navratilova. She won 109 consecutive matches. Let's go through the stats. 22 Grand Slams, 112 doubles titles, 20 Grand Slams along with Martina, 109 consecutive matches. Pam Schreiber is a tennis legend. She's a broadcaster. She got her start at the U.S. Open at age 16. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Pam Schreiber.

• 35:46Speaker 06

  Hey, everybody. Great to see you.

• 35:48Hoda Kotb?

  Look at Pam. Look at Pam Schreiber. So Pam, first of all, hi.

• 35:54Speaker 06

  Hello. It was incredible running into you today. Like, the second person I saw.

• 35:57Hoda Kotb?

  I know. And you got your coaching gear on, is that what you're saying? Tell me about that part. What's going on there?

• 36:03Speaker 06

  Well, I'm really leaning into coaching more and more. It's kind of like the third chapter. I played professionally 19 years, got to the finals here over on Armstrong at 16, taking the train up from Baltimore. And then, actually, CBS gave me broadcast opportunities in the early 80s before Mary Carillo had a full-time career, because women weren't full-time tennis broadcasters. And then I worked for ESPN for 35 years. That ended after last year's U.S. Open. But I love coaching. I love mentoring. And my program is with the Yonex brand, a racket I played with for 10 years. And it's really encouraging players to work on their mindset practice almost as intentionally as they work on their tennis practice.

• 36:44Hoda Kotb?

  This is a real big one. So, working on your mindset is a huge thing, whether you're a tennis player or anybody else who's out there. Tell me about the importance of that. What are some practical things that you teach some of your players to do?

• 36:59Speaker 06

  Well, it can be just as simple as knowing what kind of breathing techniques help you deal with stress. It could be the fact that you need to stay in your routines and your rituals between each point. It could mean you recognize your opponent suddenly has an unbelievable streak of play. What can you do? Maybe go to your towel box a little bit more, take a few extra seconds just to try to control things. It varies. It's also trying to prevent burnout at the end of a long tennis season. This is the last of the four majors. It is a long season that hardly has any breaks. So it's not just within a match. It's within managing stress of New York City. Work with a lot of players who come from little towns in Europe,

• 37:44Speaker 06

  and this is very intimidating.

• 37:46Hoda Kotb?

  I want to talk about Pam at 16. So imagine yourself for a minute. You're 16 years old. You're in high school, okay? And all of a sudden, you find yourself at the U.S. Open opposite Martina Navratilova in the semis. And what does Pam Schreiber do against Martina Navratilova? She beats her, okay? Then she's going to the finals at 16. What were we doing at 16? I don't know. But she was playing Chrissy Evert in the finals of the U.S. Open as a teenager. Will you take me back to that, Pam? What that... How were you not terrified out of your brain? Were you so young you didn't notice? Or what happened?

• 38:29Speaker 06

  Well, first off, I was born in Baltimore, Maryland, so in the same region as the U.S. Open. And I had actually never been until I came here as a player at 16. I'd watched a lot on TV. But in a major, 128 draw, back then even, 48 years ago, step by step, which is actually a great mindset phrase, step by step, you go from the first round to the second round. It doesn't happen quickly. It happens in two weeks. Plus, I'd had a really good rookie season, and I was seeded 16. So it was in an era when you could really make big leaps, because the depth wasn't as good. And I'm still the youngest finalist at 16 and two months. The year after, I lost in the finals to Chrissy.

• 39:13Speaker 06

  Tracy Austin at 16 and nine months became the youngest winner. So it was a very different era in tennis. But I can tell you, I was terrified after I beat Martina, and I had two days to think about it, playing Chris Evert. And it was on the same day, because of rain, as the men's final, which was also unusual for the time. So here I am on the program, Evert versus Schreiber, and then Borg versus Connors.

• 39:39Hoda Kotb?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 39:40Speaker 06

  And believe me, I felt a little bit like the one that stood out. Like, who is this?

• 39:46Hoda Kotb?

  How did you have the mindset to beat Martina in the semis, knowing you were opposite one of the tennis greats?

• 39:54Speaker 06

  Well, she had just won her first major at Wimbledon. She had just become number one in the world for the first time, which is a lot of pressure. And so I played without pressure at 16, having the time of my life in my first U.S. Open, my second major. And I served and volleyed, and I just was able to win six and six. I can't... I never repeated it, right? Usually, when you get to a finals of a major at 16, you're going to get back, right? Well, there's no guarantees. I got to many semis. I won 22 majors in doubles and Olympic gold. But that was my one chance to win a singles major. But Chrissy was a three-time reigning defending champion and just too good.

• 40:37Speaker 06

  And what's great is that we're still such great friends.

• 40:40Hoda Kotb?

  Oh, really?

• 40:40Speaker 06

  Yeah, like, Chrissy beat me 18 straight times out of the gate before I got her. And then Martina, while he got her early, she beat me 33 straight times at the end of our career. But tennis brings you together.

• 40:53Hoda Kotb?

  How did they treat you? How did, back then, before you guys became friends, before all that stuff, how did they treat the 16-year-old kind of phenom?

• 41:03Speaker 06

  Well, it's interesting hearing Mary on this stage beforehand, because Mary was one of three players, only in 1978, to come up to me as a rookie and say, hi, I'm Mary Carillo. Welcome to the tour. There were two other people. Other than that, it's a little bit unwelcoming.

• 41:21Hoda Kotb?

  Oh, competitive.

• 41:22Speaker 06

  And that's the same in '78, and it's the same in 2026, right? But you just kind of work through it. You have your family, and you have your love of tennis. And I think just leaning into what you can control. So, anyway, it was an amazing time. I love reflecting, but I also love being here in the now and helping qualifying players trying to manage matches later on today.

• 41:44Hoda Kotb?

  How did you and Martina, after you beat Martina then, how did it turn out that you two became such good doubles partners?

• 41:51Speaker 06

  Well, in 1980, so two years after I got to the finals, I'm 18, I'm playing with a veteran player who was playing her last tournament, Betty Stove from the Netherlands. We got to the finals of the U.S. Open doubles, playing Billie Jean King and Martina Navratilova. And we lost, but it was a really close match, and I played really well. And a month later, I was at a tournament in Florida before cell phones, and the tour director yelled, "Schreiber! Telephone call. It's from Navratilova." And listen, I dropped my racket, and I ran into the landline as quick as I could. And it was Martina asking me to start playing beginning of January of 1981.

• 42:31Hoda Kotb?

  Wow.

• 42:32Speaker 06

  And who would have known? It was my ticket to the Hall of Fame. My singles career was really good, but it was my partnership with Navratilova that earned me the Hall of Fame in 2002.

• 42:43Hoda Kotb?

  Tell me about that working relationship, because it takes a special connection to make a doubles team work.

• 42:51Speaker 06

  Well, and I really leaned into partnerships in my life. And I think it's a skill that really helps. And I think I'm very... I like to talk a lot, and I like to relate to people. And Martina and I just clicked. She liked my sense of humor. We had styles of play that meshed well together for the era. She was a lefty, I'm a righty. We both loved to get to net, and we just smothered the opponents. And I think we also had our own singles world in our teams, so that we weren't together all the time. We came together to win doubles tournaments, but then we had our own singles life.

• 43:29Hoda Kotb?

  You had so many at-a-girls over the course of your career, all these wins. Is there one or a few that stand out and you go, wow? Because you brought up, like, the Olympics. Or what stands out to you as your wow moments?

• 43:43Speaker 06

  Well, living in L.A., since I moved from Baltimore quite a few years ago, and L.A. 2026 is around the corner, I can tell you, when tennis became a full-metal sport again in 1988, and I qualified for Seoul, Korea, and it was two weeks after the U.S. Open, so players were tired. Martina decided not to play. And I was really... Scared that maybe that was my gold medal opportunity. But I teamed up with Xena Garrison from Houston, Texas. And we ended up beating the Czech team in the finals. I think it was 10-8 in the third on our seventh match point. And Xena and I, we were similar ages and we just couldn't believe that moment.

• 44:25Speaker 06

  And the only other thing in 88, I beat Steffi Graf in her golden Grand Slam year. So she won all four majors and the Olympic gold at Seoul. And I beat her in Madison Square Garden in the semis of the Tour Championship. So 1988 was a good year.

• 44:38Hoda Kotb?

  I love it. Who is, you mentioned Billie Jean King a couple of times. Who was the person who you looked up to and said, wow, that's kind of the gold standard? I like that state of play?

• 44:50Speaker 06

  Well, I can tell you the most influential thing that I think made me in the mid-'70s realize that I wanted to be a professional athlete was actually growing up in Baltimore. The Baltimore Orioles were unbelievable in the '70s. They were winning World Series titles. The Baltimore Colts, before they moved to Indianapolis, were winning a Super Bowl. And I was very influenced by sports growing up. And of course, tennis became my love. My parents played, my grandparents, my three kids have played. So I just, I fell in love with tennis at age five. But honestly, it was the sports culture of Baltimore that helped me become a jock. And my high school embraced a female athlete in the '70s.

• 45:32Hoda Kotb?

  That's cool.

• 45:33Speaker 06

  Yes, high school athletics.

• 45:35Hoda Kotb?

  That's very cool. What about, you said your kids, did you expect them to like tennis? Did you encourage it? Did you say, you do you? What happened?

• 45:44Speaker 06

  Well, my dad built a court in the backyard in the home I grew up in Baltimore when I was nine. And it influenced my life. And I bought a house in LA. I was lucky enough with a tennis court before the kids were born. They kind of had no choice, given my love of this lifetime sport. And also, I believe tennis gives you athletic skills that hardly any other sport can give you. So even if they didn't play tennis for their whole life, they'd enjoy sports as a hobby. So I did hope they played. My boys have played. My oldest boy is also a type 1 diabetic. And I think the activity has helped him manage his blood sugar. And I know that's something we have in common. So sports is important, especially to get kids off screens in this day and age.

• 46:25Hoda Kotb?

  Wow. So I'm curious about him being a type 1 diabetic and playing. How did he manage all that?

• 46:31Speaker 06

  Well, and it's interesting in tennis because you have Sasha Zverev, who just won Roland Garros, who's learned to manage his blood sugar better and better as his career's moved along. It's, like, it's a tough thing. My lucky thing as a parent, Hoda, was that my son George was diagnosed in sixth grade. So he was old enough to manage the math and manage the, all the stuff. I mean, I was there with him, but it's very different when it's diagnosed at an earlier age. But it's one of the mindset things that I, you know, whatever is thrown in life, it goes back to that mindset to be able to, okay, I need to accept this. And now, one next indicated step is how do I learn as a parent to support my son managing it?

• 47:16Speaker 06

  And sports has helped him.

• 47:17Hoda Kotb?

  You know, it's so interesting. I have a seven-year-old, I have a seven and a nine-year-old. And my seven-year-old was diagnosed at age almost five with type 1 diabetes. And just to show you how resilient and amazing they are, I was in the bathroom with Hope, reading her a book like she likes. And so while I was reading, I said, let me just ask Hope. And I go, so I said, Hopi, I said, what's it like having diabetes? And she goes, oh, well, it's hard because I don't get birthday cake. And sometimes kids notice all the devices on me and they are confused. And sometimes I just want to eat cake like everybody else. But I guess it's just life, right, Mom? And I go, yeah, I guess it is just life.

• 48:02Hoda Kotb?

  And she said, what's it like for you to have me?

• 48:05Speaker 06

  That's going to get me.

• 48:06Hoda Kotb?

  To have me. And I said, it is the greatest blessing of my life to have you. And yesterday, she went with Dylan's kids and my other daughter. And they were on this rock climbing thing. And you know who the person was who made it to the top and beat out all the kids?

• 48:22Speaker 06

  Hope.

• 48:23Hoda Kotb?

  Hope. Like, it was amazing. So what, there are things we put on our own children and restrictions when I think sometimes, like, just like you did with your son and just like I'm doing with my daughter, like, they're capable of so much. And they have an inner strength that is, like, unbelievable.

• 48:43Speaker 06

  And I think this being dealt to kids, it's an autoimmune disease and they have to manage it the rest of their life. It teaches them about being resilient in an instant. So I feel for kids who have it, but also they have a gift in a way.

• 49:00Hoda Kotb?

  Yes, agreed. So Pam, you had this beautiful, beautiful tennis career. And you dovetailed it into a beautiful broadcasting career. You have the gift of gab, Avi. Was it an easy transition or was it one of those things that you're like, how am I going to learn that skill set? How do you do that?

• 49:18Speaker 06

  Well, I came out of the womb in Baltimore, Maryland, July 4, 1962, talking. I mean, it was just, and I liked to communicate with people. And CBS, when I was 19, they asked me to broadcast. And I was pretty comfortable from the beginning. I did it very, very part-time during my playing career. It's very common these days. Tennis Channel and ESPN have players on the team that still sometimes compete. And it's kind of cool. So I was really lucky that I was able to have 35 years with ESPN and also work for the BBC and some other networks. Now, evidently, at this age, in my mid-40s, I have more of a face for radio. I'm working for BBC Radio here. And I'm grateful for that.

• 50:03Speaker 06

  I worked it at Wimbledon. And I love podcasts. And, you know, I kind of hope there's a time when women can broadcast a little bit longer on television. And this will happen. But in the meantime, you have to accept, have the right mindset and figure out, I didn't want to leave tennis. I didn't want to leave major tennis. And that's why I'm leaning into coaching.

• 50:23Hoda Kotb?

  Well, and I think it's beautiful, your career, Mary's career. And think about all the morning anchors, when I think about it. Gayle King is, I think she's 70. Robin Roberts is in her 60s. Savannah's in her 50s. When you look at who is dominating kind of morning television, there's been a real shift. Like, you feel, you feel something that's happening. And like you said, the love of the game is the love of the game. You know, whether it's you're doing it here, there, anywhere, you've always had that. How have you held on to the joy of tennis? Because you can, sometimes when I'm watching people play, you know they don't have that joy. They're just grinding it out, getting the point. They don't have that thing.

• 51:06Speaker 06

  Well, I think it really helps to look at the entire body of when you fell in love with the sport. Of course, when you're competing and it's, say, like, this weather is awesome, but if it was like 95 degrees, 70% humidity, and you've just lost a 4-1 lead in the final set, you're literally living through hell. But that's kind of true with anything in life that you care about. There are difficult moments. And this is what you try and teach them. Like, get through that difficult moment, one point at a time, and still find the joy. Find the laughter. I'm a big believer, if you don't laugh enough every day, your mindset goes like this.

• 51:48Hoda Kotb?

  And have you, so you've continued that throughout. And how do you coach your players to have that too? Because you want the competitive edge and you also want the love of the game. I was just telling Mary before we came on that I had heard this podcast and this guy said, the thing that separates, if you have 25 top players, tennis players, the top five are different. And they're not different in their nutrition or their mindset or all that stuff. He said, what makes them different? If they've all trained the same, they eat similar, they try to work on their mental health. But that top five has a love of the game, like, they haven't forgotten. When they get a point, it's like, yes! It's like they feel that. Do you agree or?

• 52:32Speaker 06

  I agree, yes, to a point. But they also have that ability in the biggest moments of matches. When the emotions start to come out, the butterflies come, they're somehow able to stay in the moment. And it is not an easy skill because you often do think about, if I win this, I win $1 million or $4 million, my ranking goes from 28 to number seven. There's a lot of things that can get into your head. So it's a skill that you need to learn. And it's not easy, but it can be, it can be done.

• 53:04Hoda Kotb?

  And how do you teach that? How do you teach your players to try to get that skill?

• 53:08Speaker 06

  Well, first off, I'm a big believer, everybody's, because since everybody's brain is different, a player has to be curious about their own brain and how it works. How do they learn? Recognize your emotions. What did you do best in a match that you won six months ago? What did you learn that you could apply? Again, I can't necessarily tell you about your brain. But if you're curious enough and you're dedicated enough, you will look into how I can keep my brain most calm and clear in the biggest moments.

• 53:39Hoda Kotb?

  And as, again, a 16-year-old who made it to the finals here at the U.S. Open, when you see other young players come up, you've been there, you know what they're going through. What, I mean, whether they're asking for advice or what, what advice would you offer them if asked?

• 53:59Speaker 06

  Well, I think you need to be as prepared as possible for each situation that you know about. Like, you know you're gonna play an opponent in the first round of the US Open. You have three or four days from when the draw is made to when you're gonna play. So lean into what you can control. Do your proper scouting, whether you use data. Just prepare with the controllables. The weather, how your opponent plays on the day, there's certain things. You know, the electronics yesterday on one of the courts went down for like five minutes in the middle of the opening game of a young Yonex player. And I was like, wow, how's she gonna handle this? And you know what? She handled it great.

• 54:33Hoda Kotb?

  She did.

• 54:33Speaker 06

  You don't know when things are gonna happen, but you can encourage your players to just accept it and then stay in that moment. And by the way, in tennis, you can come over and talk to the coaching box, which is different from my career. Sometimes it was done, but it was illegal. But now you can lean on your coaches to kind of help you work things out and problem solve. Of course, we can't hit a ball. You have to hit the ball.

• 54:58Hoda Kotb?

  All right. So this podcast is called Joy 101. And I always like to wrap up my, yeah, come on. I like to wrap up the podcast by asking my guest, what's bringing you joy these days?

• 55:11Speaker 06

  Well, what's bringing me joy and always has is meeting new people. Meeting you today has brought me a lot of joy, realizing on the way here that we share the common commonality of being a parent of a Taekwondo diabetic. Being able to share my experience and love of this sport of tennis. It's been my partner in life since I was four years of age. And I wanna play and I wanna coach until I can no longer do it. And so the sport of tennis brings me great joy.

• 55:39Hoda Kotb?

  Love it. What a beautiful conversation. Pam Schreiber, everybody.

• 55:43Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 55:47Hoda Kotb?

  I've realized that joy doesn't always come from those big moments. Sometimes you find it on the most ordinary day. I'll pop into a CVS for toothpaste or paper towels, and it never seems to be just a quick errand. Maybe I'll grab a delicious Well Market Trail Mix or wander over to the Joy Word Collection. That's part of the fun. So the next time you're checking something off your to-do list, stop by your local CVS pharmacy. You might go in for one thing and leave with a little more joy. Visit your local CVS pharmacy, sponsored by CVS.

• 56:17Speaker 07

  I'm Melissa Jelton, host of the What Happened to Her podcast. We're kicking off the season with the Sandra Birchmore story, a case the police wrote off as a suicide in a snowstorm. Her family never bought it, and the man they suspected wore a badge. You never know who that devil is because he's wearing a disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform. And you can get access to all episodes 100% ad-free with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription exclusively on Apple Podcasts, available only to iHeart True Crime Plus subscribers. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today.

• 56:56Speaker 00

  Is there an epidemic against literature, more specifically, Black literature? I'm Jacquece P. Thomas, and on this season of the Black Lit Podcast, we're outside asking why. They don't want a whole bunch of little elevators, Malcolm X's and Martin Luther King's running around. And when you look at a lot of different cultures, they're like, you need to know where you came from. And considering this is Black Reading Month, the only real question is, what are you reading next? Listen to Black Lit from the Black Effect Podcast Network on our iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 57:27Speaker 04

  One recent episode of The Questlove Show, I chatted with JoJo about her music and Wallow267 about his story, everything in between. Don't invite me to karaoke. I'm gonna make it weird. Someone's gonna try to sing Leave, Get Out, or Too Little, Too Late, or Baby, It's You. Oh, no. And I'm gonna be like, okay, cool. Check out my conversation with JoJo, Wallow267, and more on The Questlove Show. Listen to The Questlove Show on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Peace.

• 57:58Speaker 00

  What happens when romance gets a little monstrous? On Radio 831, a romance podcast, join us, Sajana Baskar and Tyler McCall, as we host our own monster romance extravaganza. We're joined by The Villain Edit author Rosie Dannen and sentient object romance expert Gracie Delgado to explore what these unexpected love stories can reveal about desire, fantasy, and what we actually want. Listen to Radio 831, a romance podcast, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.