Behind the Scenes Minis: Coffee, 'Pirats' and Sea Robbers

Holly and Tracy talk about their coffee preferences. Then Tracy traces the path that led her from a listener mail to the topic of Fort Mose. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Speaker 01

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• 0:34Speaker 02

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• 1:04Holly Frey?

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx, listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:35Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 2:11Holly Frey?

  Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeart Radio.

• 2:22Holly Frey?

  Hello and happy Friday. I'm Holly Frey.

• 2:24Tracy V. Wilson?

  And I'm Tracy V. Wilson.

• 2:27Holly Frey?

  We talked about the invention of coffee filters and the Melita Company this week.

• 2:32Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yes.

• 2:34Holly Frey?

  Some of which got dark in a way I was not anticipating when I started this.

• 2:38Tracy V. Wilson?

  No.

• 2:39Holly Frey?

  Sorry. But you don't want to ignore that stuff because it's important.

• 2:42Tracy V. Wilson?

  No.

• 2:43Holly Frey?

  It's an important part of the story, so we got to acknowledge it. I have a number of notes, but first I want to start with the conversational. I know you are a coffee drinker.

• 2:55Holly Frey?

  I'm a coffee hound, as I said the first thing. And I know we both have cut back on what we used to drink.

• 3:02Tracy V. Wilson?

  I used to drink so much coffee.

• 3:05Holly Frey?

  All day long?

• 3:07Tracy V. Wilson?

  All day. I drank coffee all day. And then after work, this was when I was just out of college. When I was in college, I would drink coffee all day.

• 3:18Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 3:19Tracy V. Wilson?

  And then at like 1 o'clock in the morning, we would go to Waffle House and I would have some Waffle House coffee at 1 o'clock in the morning.

• 3:28Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 3:29Tracy V. Wilson?

  Come back to my dorm room and be able to go to sleep after that. I don't understand how this worked for me because then, after graduating from college, I would drink coffee at work all day. And then after work, I had a coffee shop that I hung out at all the time. And I would drink more coffee at the coffee shop.

• 3:47Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 3:48Tracy V. Wilson?

  And then I decided that I was drinking too much coffee and that I should cut back. And it was, this was like something I was challenging myself to do, thinking it was going to be a limited amount of time, that I was going to cut back to just a couple of cups of coffee in the morning. And it ruined my ability to have caffeine later in the day.

• 4:05Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 4:06Tracy V. Wilson?

  Just really destroyed it. So now if I have caffeinated stuff, if it's more than just like one cup of tea, if I have caffeinated things after about 3 or 4 in the afternoon, I have trouble sleeping. It's very sad.

• 4:20Holly Frey?

  I can still chug it.

• 4:21Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 4:22Holly Frey?

  I always joke with people and sometimes they believe me this is not true. Where, because it's happened, there was one time it happened and it was so funny. And I felt bad because I don't want to laugh at somebody who's being earnest. But it was very funny. I was at lunch with a friend of mine and I asked for a water, a Diet Coke and a coffee. And the server said, So much caffeine. And I said, well, I burned out my adrenal gland when I was seven. So if I don't get it constantly, I'll die. Being sarcastic. And she was so, and she's like, I'll make sure you always have some on the table. And I was like, oh, no, no, I'm, I'm just being a jerk, but I do appreciate it. And would like the caffeine to keep coming.

• 4:59Holly Frey?

  I was like, that's not a thing. I didn't do that.

• 5:01Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 5:03Holly Frey?

  I still drink it all day long. I have cut back from about probably 10 to 12 cups a day to like four to five.

• 5:09Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 5:10Holly Frey?

  Only because my doctor climbed on my tail about it. And some days that's hard. Okay, here's the real question that I want to know.

• 5:16Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 5:17Holly Frey?

  What is your preparation preference?

• 5:19Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay. So for a long time at home, I had a regular drip coffee maker and also a very inexpensive espresso machine.

• 5:30Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 5:31Tracy V. Wilson?

  Like, what is the cheapest espresso machine that a person without a lot of money could buy? That is what I had. And then time went by. I think I broke the pot on the espresso machine. It wasn't getting a lot of use, so I got rid of the espresso machine. And then I moved to Massachusetts. And we were living in an apartment that was on the third floor of a triple decker. It had no shade. It had no air conditioning and it got so hot in the summertime that I could not tolerate the idea of drinking hot coffee.

• 6:02Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 6:03Tracy V. Wilson?

  So I got a cold brew setup. We also had no room, so I got rid of the regular drip coffee pot at that point. So we just had the cold brew setup.

• 6:13Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 6:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  This is a whole coffee journey.

• 6:16Holly Frey?

  It's great.

• 6:16Tracy V. Wilson?

  Eventually, I was like, now I want hot coffee again, though. And heating up cold brew is not as satisfying. So I got a French press. And so I still have the cold brew setup in the French press. And that lasted until the day I was making my coffee in the morning and I knocked the French press off of the counter and shattered it. Before I had made my coffee for the day, that day, I made coffee in a tea infuser.

• 6:43Holly Frey?

  Yeah, listen, desperate times, desperate measures.

• 6:46Tracy V. Wilson?

  It worked okay. So now the two coffee setups in my home are a cold brew setup and an arrow press. And the arrow press is what the hot coffee gets made in most mornings.

• 6:58Holly Frey?

  Yeah. Yeah. I used to drip for a long, long, long time. You know, I was that person that like, oh no, the coffee pot's almost empty, time to make another pot. Like, I just was constantly kind of doing the thing.

• 7:11Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 7:11Holly Frey?

  In recent years, I say recent, it's been quite a while. I switched over to French press and I have a very adorable R2D2 French press that I got from ThinkGeek. Remember ThinkGeek?

• 7:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yay.

• 7:24Holly Frey?

  I miss you, ThinkGeek, that I will cry if it ever becomes damaged in a way I cannot use it. Another company has started making them recently, but they are not quite as good. But here's the thing, and I love a French press. I also have a Keurig that I do the refillable cups for that I keep in my cantina in case people order an espresso martini when they're over, or I want an espresso martini when I'm just hanging out.

• 7:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  I want listeners to understand something which you, that you just said. Which is that when guests come to your home, you have a bar menu. And I love this about you.

• 8:00Holly Frey?

  I do have a bar menu.

• 8:01Tracy V. Wilson?

  And I feel that this is something other people should know.

• 8:04Holly Frey?

  I do. I have a bar menu. It got updated recently. I mean, I have a bar, like, we built a cantina onto our house because I like making drinks and I like Star Wars. So people come over and it's like going to a restaurant you don't pay at.

• 8:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 8:21Holly Frey?

  And I literally act like I'm working a shift. Like, I'm usually not drinking. I'm only bartending and making sure everybody has snacks. And I love it. I don't, I don't know. I just love it. I love making drinks. I love inventing drinks. Anyway.

• 8:33Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 8:34Holly Frey?

  Sometimes you want man for Januine, because this year I'm trying to have people over every month that has a 31 in it for the Oween of that month.

• 8:43Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 8:43Holly Frey?

  So for Januine, I did an espresso martini. We did three specialty drinks that day. And one of them is a pumpkin spice doughnut espresso martini.

• 8:55Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 8:57Holly Frey?

  And that was just stupidly good.

• 8:58Tracy V. Wilson?

  That sounds really good.

• 9:00Holly Frey?

  And not as sweet as you might be thinking. But anyway, yeah, so we love. And I do love an espresso martini. I know that's a little basic lady drink, but whoo, I love it. And a good one is worth its weight in gold. But yeah, here's the other thing about me, though. As much as I love my French press, and that is my preferred method, I would say. I'm a junkie. I'm not a connoisseur.

• 9:21Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 9:21Holly Frey?

  I just want coffee.

• 9:22Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 9:23Holly Frey?

  If somebody's like, well, this coffee was filtered through a sock. The sock was clean, but it's, you know, and the grounds are really bad. There, there might be pencil shavings. I'm like, that's okay. Do you have creamer to put in it? I'm good. I just need the coffee.

• 9:36Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. The reason that we got the Aeropress was, number one, shatterproof. They do make glass ones, but, but the one that we have is plastic. So I would never again have the situation of preparing to make my coffee. And I shatter the thing used to do that.

• 9:52Holly Frey?

  That is, I would, I think I would cry.

• 9:54Tracy V. Wilson?

  I might have.

• 9:55Holly Frey?

  Actually cry.

• 9:56Tracy V. Wilson?

  Cry. But then the other thing is that we have a friend named Dan. And Dan makes his coffee in an Aeropress, but then also has a little hand cranked coffee bean grinder that he travels with.

• 10:09Holly Frey?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 10:10Tracy V. Wilson?

  And so it's a, it's a whole, like a ritual. It's way more quality focused than ours, which for me is just having something warm that tastes like coffee first thing in the morning. Especially right now when it's freezing cold outside. But yeah, Dan is like way more like, there's a whole precise ritual. And I'm just like, grind the beans, dump it in there, dump the boil, dump the water in there.

• 10:33Holly Frey?

  Right.

• 10:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  Dump the thing in there, stir, go.

• 10:36Holly Frey?

  Do you remember, this is some years ago, when we were still just how stuff works, I think. And we would do sometimes like guest lectures and we had a dude come in to talk about coffee.

• 10:52Tracy V. Wilson?

  I don't know if I remember that part, but I do remember doing guest lectures.

• 10:56Holly Frey?

  It was pretty fun because, you know, he very much waxed rhapsodic about coffee, which is understandable.

• 11:03Holly Frey?

  You know, it was, it's one of those things where there are always people who are so attuned to a specific thing that they can really talk about, like a consumable good.

• 11:15Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:16Holly Frey?

  Coffee, a wine, et cetera, where they could talk about all of the notes and everything and blah, blah, blah, beers. Like when I hear people talk about beers in the notes, I'm not a beer drinker. Everything tastes like Rolling Rock to me. I know that's anathema to people, but it was just so funny because he was noticing the same thing that like he had friends that would talk about like wine the same way he would talk about coffee. And I literally like asked him something about like, is it anathema to you when people put stuff in their coffee? And he looked kind of dejected and sad and was like, I mean, hmm, no, no. And I'm just like, because I'm dumping in my sweetener and my,

• 11:54Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 11:54Holly Frey?

  my creamer. Now I usually use protein shake in my coffee. So I feel like I'm at least getting something worthwhile.

• 12:00Tracy V. Wilson?

  Not me.

• 12:00Holly Frey?

  But yeah, it's like, oh, I just want all the coffee. I just want the coffee. I love it.

• 12:09Speaker 00

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat with flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment. Get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 12:39Speaker 05

  First thought is like, wow, how are we going to do all this?

• 12:42Tracy V. Wilson?

  Hey, everybody. It's Tracy from Stuff You Missed in History Class. That's Alan Goya, a planning engineer at AT&T. He's talking about Intuit Dome, home of the Los Angeles Clippers, where every seat, screen, phone, and transaction is connected with AT&T fiber and 5G, defining the fan's experience. And Alan's master plan made it all possible.

• 13:02Speaker 05

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• 13:10Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 13:17Speaker 06

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• 13:22Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 13:26Speaker 06

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• 13:34Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 13:40Speaker 07

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• 14:04Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 14:47Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 15:16Holly Frey?

  There were a few interesting things that came up in the research for this. They're on the lighter side of things. This isn't really the lighter side, but it is interesting to me because that whole World War I situation where Britain was really kind of controlling who did and did not have access to coffee trade.

• 15:40Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 15:41Holly Frey?

  Or had limited access to coffee trade. What ended up kind of happening in the midst of all of that is that the US got a lot of coffee trade because like it just came north instead of trying to cross the Atlantic to. And I'm like, oh, this is where like the whole seed of, it's not like as though people weren't drinking coffee before that, but I really think that's probably the beginning of this concept that we all live now of like coffee lifestyle, right? Like coffee achievers, the coffee generation, all of that stuff that we got marketed when we were kids. And it just made me chuckle to think about the ways that history is impacting us that we don't always think about.

• 16:21Tracy V. Wilson?

  Our coffee love is very seriously jeopardized by climate change. Coffee requires very specific conditions to grow in and those conditions are in peril.

• 16:36Holly Frey?

  Very much so. I am gonna confess to you that I had a lot of confusion looking at pictures regarding how the Melita coffee filter, the metal coffee filter worked initially.

• 16:51Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:52Holly Frey?

  Because we described that it has that little set in basket at the top. And I was like, is that where the coffee goes and the filter? Cause it is indented, like a little basin. But then I watched a video of, I think her like great grandson, who is now one of the executives in the company, pull one out, pull that off and put the paper inside. And I was like, oh, this works different than I thought.

• 17:22Tracy V. Wilson?

  Huh.

• 17:23Holly Frey?

  Like, I don't, I don't know, I don't know what I was thinking. I just was like, okay. I felt very foolish, but it's similar to the way that we couldn't be confident about the way the, the device that maybe prevented boil over.

• 17:37Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, or maybe prevented overcooking, depending on.

• 17:40Holly Frey?

  Right, because translations offer alternate concepts. We don't know. When you look at a thing, and then it, it really though was very in line with some of the stuff we talked about in the episode, because they did have to teach people how these things worked.

• 17:54Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:55Holly Frey?

  You know, like when they, if they had just handed them to a consumer, they wouldn't have been able to be like, okay, the coffee goes here, I guess, because the paper could have sat inside that little shallow basin as well.

• 18:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right, right.

• 18:06Holly Frey?

  We don't know. I do kind of now want to get one of these pour-over cups just for the entertainment of it, to say that I used one.

• 18:13Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 18:14Holly Frey?

  They're little, they're not going to take up much space. There's gotta be a cocktail I could make, that makes use of it. Oh, I just had such an idea. Look out, people coming to my house.

• 18:24Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 18:25Holly Frey?

  There's gonna be a hot coffee drink coming. Oh my goodness, I just had such a good idea. Okay, there is another thing that, listen, this happens all the time.

• 18:36Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 18:36Holly Frey?

  Where the way a P, a history even of a company or an entity is reported by that company or entity that doesn't line up with other facts that we know, or that you can't corroborate. And I, I don't even think that's like necessarily nefarious. What I'm about to say is a very benign thing, but I just was like, huh, I don't know what's going on here. Like, I'm not even talking about any of the, the World War II Nazi stuff. Literally, the Melita Company's website that has their history that I got to sort of through a back door, mentions that they won.

• 19:14Holly Frey?

  Gold and silver medals at the 1911 International Hygiene Expo in Dresden and the 1910 one. But when I looked up the International Hygiene Expo, there is no evidence that there was one in Dresden in 1910. So I'm like, what is going on here? There was one in 1910, but it was in Buenos Aires. And I don't think they sent anybody to it. So I'm not sure what the scoop is there. But on the certificate that you can find, if you really root around on their site, the certificate for the 1911 awards has pictures of the 1910 award coins, like the medallions. Okay.

• 19:57Holly Frey?

  That are labeled 1910. So I don't know if that is the source of some confusion or if there was an event that is just not documented. I mean, that's the other thing that I, um, in that paper that was, that's originally in German that I was doing translation comparisons on, at the beginning of that paper, that researcher mentions that there were some issues getting a hold of documents because of a couple of different events that happened. One was that there have been fires, I believe, that have destroyed things. Two is that there have been robberies at like the company, at the corporate headquarters where some things vanished.

• 20:39Holly Frey?

  So it's like, there are just facts we can't always validate anymore. Now, if you're a conspiracy theorist, you would say, did those things really happen? Or is that what this researcher got told? I don't, I don't know. I'm, I'm not really a conspiracy theorist. So yeah, I don't, I don't know. But I did learn as I was researching and looking at other companies who also did Nazi collaboration. I learned a factoid that I didn't know that maybe some of our listeners knew, but I was not aware of. Okay. Did you know?

• 21:14Holly Frey?

  That Coca-Cola invented Fanta for Nazi Germany?

• 21:20Tracy V. Wilson?

  I don't think I knew that, no.

• 21:22Holly Frey?

  I wish I had had the presence of mind to bring up, to have the website here handy, but it was like, one of those things where many products were blockaded or forbidden to be shipped in various ways, but there was still a desire for a yummy, delicious, carbonated beverage. And Coca-Cola was like, we could get around these rules and restrictions if we invent a new thing.

• 21:44Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 21:45Holly Frey?

  That is different from the things we've been making.

• 21:47Tracy V. Wilson?

  All right, then.

• 21:49Holly Frey?

  So just remember, like, there, I don't want anybody's takeaway to be like, that company's bad, because like,

• 21:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 21:58Holly Frey?

  we would have to literally live in a cave and make our own food and cook it on rocks if we wanted to avoid every possible corporate entity that has dirty things.

• 22:08Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:09Holly Frey?

  In their past.

• 22:10Tracy V. Wilson?

  Well, and really, virtually any company that was operating in Germany during that era had to do something. And so it's a scale of,

• 22:22Holly Frey?

  Yes.

• 22:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  sort of tacitly allowing things to actively collaborating. Like, those are sort of the extremes.

• 22:31Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 22:31Tracy V. Wilson?

  And there's, especially if we're talking about a company,

• 22:34Holly Frey?

  There's a lot of space in the middle.

• 22:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, if we're talking about a company big enough to be doing international business, incredibly unlikely for them to have somehow had no Nazi involvement at all. I'm not saying that excuses anything.

• 22:47Holly Frey?

  Yeah, there was almost no way to sidestep it.

• 22:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yes, it's the reality of what we're talking about.

• 22:53Holly Frey?

  Every car company,

• 22:55Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 22:57Holly Frey?

  including US car companies,

• 22:59Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 22:59Holly Frey?

  have problematic links to Nazi Germany. It just is what it is. But what I do like is coffee.

• 23:08Tracy V. Wilson?

  Coffee.

• 23:08Holly Frey?

  And for that,

• 23:09Tracy V. Wilson?

  I do like it.

• 23:09Holly Frey?

  I am grateful.

• 23:10Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 23:11Holly Frey?

  Thank you, Melita, because I don't like grounds in my coffee either.

• 23:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  No.

• 23:16Holly Frey?

  Although I realize now I'm not using any of her filtered, I'm really thinking about this drink, though, now. This has just got exciting for me.

• 23:24Holly Frey?

  Really did.

• 23:24Tracy V. Wilson?

  This is what we're gonna do for now. Like now our show is gonna be a cocktail show. From now on.

• 23:30Holly Frey?

  That's fine by me. Let's do it. Let's rock and roll. I'm not making criminalia anymore, so I don't have a good place to get my cocktail stuff out.

• 23:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  Cocktail outlet.

• 23:37Holly Frey?

  I don't have, I mean, the outlet is my cantina, but even so, I need the, I need the prompty tweet for anyone. And now I have a new idea, more, more at all times, which is now reminding me of Bartending School, but that's a story for another day.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 24:25Speaker 07

  In military families, service is more than a job. It's a legacy. At American Military University, that legacy can help open new doors through education. If someone in your family served in the military, you could be eligible for reduced tuition. Take the next step with flexible online programs built for real life. Learn more at amu.apus.edu/military.

• 24:49Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 25:33Tracy V. Wilson?

  Challenges and find people who can help drive results. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. Get your $75 sponsored job credit today at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now, then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 26:02Speaker 08

  Live Right, publishers of John U. Bacon's New York Times bestseller, The Gales of November, a chronicle of the S. S. Edmund Fitzgerald's 1975 shipwreck. Never has it been told better than by Mr. Bacon in this colorful book, writes John J. Miller of The Wall Street Journal, while author Hampton Sides proclaims that it's destined to be a classic. The Gales of November, now in paperback.

• 26:36Tracy V. Wilson?

  We talked about Fort Mosey. Sure did. This week on the show. This came about because of like a slightly winding listener suggestion, which was that we had gotten a listener mail asking for an episode on a particular place. And when I started looking into it, I was like, this, this place, the, the story becomes a bummer. And I, I didn't want to get into the bummer right now. And I'm not saying the name of the place because I don't want this person to feel bad for their suggestion in any way. And it may become an episode at some point in the future later. Right.

• 27:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  But I was like, okay, what are some other places that we might talk about though? Like, what are some other potential locations? Cause I feel like I haven't done one of those in a while. Yeah. And I then, from this wandering, from this listener suggestion, wound up on Fort Mosey, which I had not ever heard of before. And so much of the things that happened in the history of Florida during, you know, parallel with the history of Fort Mosey. Yeah. I also didn't know about. I obviously did know about St. Augustine being a city and being the oldest European established city. Yeah. And what's now the United States. Like, I knew those kinds of things. Patriot War, never heard of it.

• 28:03Tracy V. Wilson?

  Until doing the research on this.

• 28:05Holly Frey?

  Yeah, I don't think that I did.

• 28:07Tracy V. Wilson?

  I had kind of a vague understanding about Oglethorpe.

• 28:14Holly Frey?

  That I knew a little more about.

• 28:16Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, like I knew that sort of that that had happened, but not a lot of details. And then I just did not fully think through all of the wars, mostly between European powers. Sometimes with indigenous allies, sometimes also with and against indigenous people. But like, all of those things that really started in the 18th century and how many of them that there were.

• 28:44Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 28:44Tracy V. Wilson?

  That all just affected Florida and how many times Florida got passed back and forth between different European powers.

• 28:52Holly Frey?

  Yeah, I definitely got lots of St. Augustine. I lived in Florida from when I was nine to when I was 18. So.

• 28:59Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 28:59Holly Frey?

  Kind of those key history time years. But also during an era of our country's history where it was totally cool to really give only the most complimentary version of a history regarding the place you may be talking about. You know, there was not a lot of, oh, and they treated people really bad. It was like, they were the first ones and everything was amazing.

• 29:25Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 29:26Holly Frey?

  You know?

• 29:27Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. Having grown up in North Carolina, I had a sense of Carolina being established as one colony, not north and south, that north and south came later. I did not really have a sense of how far the southern border was under the royal charter expected to go, like that it not only did it go way into Florida, but like it included St. Augustine. I did not really have

• 29:52Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 29:52Tracy V. Wilson?

  a big sense of that part of it.

• 29:54Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 29:55Tracy V. Wilson?

  I had thought of something else that I was gonna say, and now I have.

• 29:58Holly Frey?

  Do you want to talk about food while you try to think of it?

• 30:01Tracy V. Wilson?

  Let's do talk about food.

• 30:02Holly Frey?

  Because I was very, very glad that you included mention of the Gulliguchi corridor at the end.

• 30:09Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 30:09Holly Frey?

  I don't know if you've noticed, it might be something that's happening more in the south, but I have noticed more and more. One, restaurants just popping up like as.

• 30:21Holly Frey?

  This is a gullah restaurant, like we're using old gullah recipes.

• 30:24Tracy V. Wilson?

  Uh huh.

• 30:25Holly Frey?

  And two, like the restaurant that I go to all the time, that's like my favorite neighborhood joint, they have started including notes on their menu about this is an old gullah recipe. Like that's where we, and like calling it out, which is kind of cool because there are some really incredible food traditions, right? Like it's often a very grain based. Like, listen, if you love shrimp and grits, the way I love shrimp and grits.

• 30:48Tracy V. Wilson?

  Uh huh.

• 30:49Holly Frey?

  That's gullah gichi. I mean, that's.

• 30:51Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 30:52Holly Frey?

  Um, that's the origin point. So it's just cool because it's an interesting time in terms of like the gastronom zone of people recognizing the, the cultural contributions of the gullah gichi and like how much we have. I mean, we've seen shrimp and grits on, you know, menus everywhere for a long time and nobody ever calls it out and goes, hey, do you actually know where this came from?

• 31:14Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 31:14Holly Frey?

  So I'm excited to see that more and more restaurants are now doing that.

• 31:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 31:20Holly Frey?

  And also now I want shrimp and grits.

• 31:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  I do too. You said it and now it's in my head.

• 31:26Holly Frey?

  I mean, it's hard for me to find a day when I don't want shrimp and grits because it is one of my favorite things on the planet. I like to order it. Any restaurant I walk into, if it has it on the menu, I will almost always order it just to see how they make it. Cause there are lots of different variations in terms of the sauces and.

• 31:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 31:42Holly Frey?

  And whatnot, what they, whether they put things in the grits.

• 31:46Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. Living in New England now, I, when I order shrimp and grits at a restaurant, there's an aspect of like morbid curiosity there at this point. Because it's so far removed from like where I grew up and where I learned to eat grits that I'm always like, okay, what are, what is this that you are going to serve to me?

• 32:08Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 32:08Tracy V. Wilson?

  Anyway, one of the things that I read while I was researching this was the correspondence between James Colleton and Dunlop, when Dunlop was on this mission to St. Augustine. And this was part of the, the instructions that the governor gave Dunlop before the part about like, and you need to get these people back. He said, quote, "You are to let the governor of Florida know that since I came to the government, there have been no pirates or nor other sea robbers admitted, nor had any reception in this province without being brought to condign punishment. And I have

• 32:53Tracy V. Wilson?

  several at this time in prison who are speedily to be brought to their trials and that I will at times vigorously endeavor in my station and government to extirpate, abolish, and destroy that sort of people who are so much enemies and destructive to all mankind." So first, the phrase pirates and other sea robbers just delighted me. Having pirates without an E where we would put it, and also sea robbers. Yeah. Pirates and sea robbers. And then all of this has some extra letters that we would not have in these words in standard English today, which is very fun. Several has two L's on it.

• 33:36Tracy V. Wilson?

  I love anything prior to standardized spelling. It's just a fun puzzle. Yeah. And usually delightful. If I'm having to read a ton of it for an episode and I'm on a deadline, I can get a little frustrated because I'm like, okay, this is harder and taking longer. But Colleton spelling trials, T R Y A L L S, also very excited about that. And then. Trials. Throughout, I, so the thing that I am most familiar with in terms of typography in old documents is the long S's that look like Fs. Yeah. Right? We've talked about those a number of times. But the way that the word Florida looks in this document. Yeah.

• 34:21Tracy V. Wilson?

  Looks like it is spelled lowercase f, lowercase f, L O R I D A. So two Fs, both of them lowercase. Florida.

• 34:33Tracy V. Wilson?

  And I had to just stop myself from going to figure out why Florida was set with what appears to be two Fs. Maybe a listener who knows about fonts and typography and 16th and 17th century printing.

• 34:51Holly Frey?

  Right.

• 34:52Tracy V. Wilson?

  Will send us the answer. But I loved every single time the word Florida was in these, this series of letters, always apparently with two Fs.

• 35:03Holly Frey?

  Florida.

• 35:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 35:06Holly Frey?

  Or as I like to say, Florida.

• 35:08Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. I never remembered the thing that I was trying to think of, that I thought I was gonna say earlier. The article in Bitter Southerner detailing sort of the progress of this park and the discovery of the forts and the archaeological work and all of that stuff. It did not have a date on it in terms of when it was published. So I'm not sure when it came out, but it, it seems like it was so, some years ago, long enough in the past that things like the fort that has been rebuilt at the, or the, the replica fort that has been built at the park, like that's not there. If you go read that article, which if you want to know the whole story of the forts rediscovery and the park and all of

• 35:51Tracy V. Wilson?

  that, like that, it lays it out and it is kind of messy. But it also makes the park sound kind of mediocre.

• 36:02Holly Frey?

  I was gonna say quaint.

• 36:07Tracy V. Wilson?

  I think quaint would be more generous than the tone of the

• 36:10Holly Frey?

  Gotcha.

• 36:10Tracy V. Wilson?

  article. And, but then when I, you know, was looking at pictures of these reenactments and stuff, I was like, I think, I think they must have done some work to make this park more visitor friendly with more amenities in the time since this article was written.

• 36:26Holly Frey?

  Gotcha.

• 36:27Tracy V. Wilson?

  So if you're reading this article and you're like, I don't know, this park is the place that I'd want to visit. Like I, I think there is more at the park and more facilities at the park than when it was written. At least that's my impression.

• 36:40Holly Frey?

  Gotcha. Yeah, I don't know. I know nothing about it. Now I'm literally like, what else do I want to talk about in Florida? And I'm like, Golden Girls, but that's not really Jermaine to anyone.

• 36:52Holly Frey?

  Just any excuse to talk about the Arthur is great.

• 36:55Tracy V. Wilson?

  I love that. I love that. I have many fond thoughts about the Golden Girls.

• 37:01Holly Frey?

  So many, so many.

• 37:02Tracy V. Wilson?

  We can just leave on that note, I think.

• 37:07Tracy V. Wilson?

  Whatever is coming up on your weekend, if you're getting to take a little time to watch some Golden Girls streaming somewhere, maybe you have Golden Girls on DVD or Blu-ray. I don't know. I hope you get to do that. I hope it's fun and great. If you're gonna go outside, if you're living somewhere where the outside is tolerable right now and you can do some stuff outside, I hope that's great. My latest outside thing was a protest. It was in a snowstorm. The wind chill was 11.

• 37:44Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 37:45Tracy V. Wilson?

  So I hope you have more favorable weather happening right now. And I know there's so much going on in the world. I hope everybody's doing as well as possible. Try to take care of each other and be kind to each other. And we will be back

• 38:00Tracy V. Wilson?

  with a Saturday classic tomorrow. We will have something brand new on Monday.

• 38:09Tracy V. Wilson?

  Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 38:23Tracy V. Wilson?

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 38:55Speaker 07

  In military families, service is more than a job. It's a legacy. At American Military University, that legacy can help open new doors through education. If someone in your family served in the military, you could be eligible for reduced tuition. Take the next step with flexible online programs built for real life. Learn more at amu.apus.edu/military.

• 39:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  You ever show up late to the game and your friends already saved your seat, your drink, even a plate? That's looking out. That's having your back. And that's exactly what AT&T does with the AT&T Guarantee. They know staying connected matters, so they actually guarantee a network that comes through when it counts. AT&T has connectivity you can depend on, or they'll proactively make it right, just like that friend who takes care of things before you even ask. AT&T: Connecting Changes Everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee for details.

• 39:53Speaker 08

  Live Right, publishers of John U. Bacon's New York Times bestseller, The Gales of November, a chronicle of the S.S. Edmund Fitzgerald's 1975 shipwreck. "Never has it been told better than by Mr. Bacon in this colorful book," writes John J. Miller of The Wall Street Journal, while author Hampton Sides proclaims that it's destined to be a classic. The Gales of November, now in paperback.

• 40:21Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.