The Love of Your Life Will Want to Date You feat. Serena Kerrigan

Serena Kerrigan is back and better than ever with her debut book Let’s F*king Date – your new dating bible with all the support/advice/tough love you need, and isn’t just for singles (hot take: marriage is not the finish line). We discuss how to date intentionally but with less stress, negative language you need to stop using immediately, the good news for girls who have friends, how to never have a bad date using the 3P Theory, and what to do when someone ghosts you. We also discuss her own relationship, from creating content on vacations without it feeling like a chore, to having small families and creating their own traditions, and dating someone who doesn’t drink. And we kick off our new segment “Dating Hack, Dating Wack.” Before Serena joins us, Rayna pops off about fall fashion and Ashley shares yet another humbling encounter with an American Airlines flight attendant. Enjoy! Follow Serena on Instagram @serenakerrigan and get her book Let’s F*cking Date. Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for more. Thank you to our partners this week: Hinge: Download the dating app designed to be deleted Noom: Start a GLP-1 program for $39 and have it delivered in as little as 7 days at https://noom.com. Revolve: Get 15% off your first order at https://revolve.com/gge with code GGE. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  I genuinely think that if you want a relationship, you can get one. I don't believe in this. Like, it might never happen. I don't believe that.

• 0:21Rayna Greenberg?

  This podcast is a Dear Media production.

• 0:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hi, guys.

• 0:24Rayna Greenberg?

  Hi, guys.

• 0:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat.

• 0:27Rayna Greenberg?

  We're together.

• 0:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  I feel so far away.

• 0:29Rayna Greenberg?

  You are very far away from me.

• 0:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, I think because we just had our guest interviews and we sat on the same couch, but all of a sudden I'm like-

• 0:36Rayna Greenberg?

  Are they always this far?

• 0:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  I don't know. It's a while.

• 0:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, you're usually 4,000 miles away, so.

• 0:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Is that how many it is?

• 0:42Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, so I said 3,000 the other day and Jeremy was like, huh. And I was like, is it longer? And he was like, I don't really know. And I was like, maybe it's 4,000.

• 0:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  Who's to say?

• 0:50Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, we could probably look, but I don't want to.

• 0:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, well, let's go with four.

• 0:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 0:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  This is the longest I've been away from you.

• 0:57Rayna Greenberg?

  When did I see you last?

• 0:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  Weeks ago.

• 1:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Labor Day.

• 1:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, that felt like nothing.

• 1:02Rayna Greenberg?

  I know.

• 1:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, so I am so excited to be in New York. I was in Boston all weekend. It's the best Boston weekend. Like, I've never felt like I might want to live here, and that's no shade to Boston. I've always just felt like I want to live in New York or LA and that's it. And that's where my community is. And I don't know. I think, you know how I get, though? When you have like a perfect weekend, perfect weather, you're like, should we live here?

• 1:23Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  And Shashank's like, yeah, we should live here.

• 1:26Rayna Greenberg?

  We're inching into the fall. I'm so happy.

• 1:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  It was unbelievable.

• 1:30Rayna Greenberg?

  I sent you a text Saturday morning. I was like walking around with four pastries. And I was like, I'm so grateful. I just feel so much gratitude for like living here. I'm just like so happy. And like, I sent you a gratitude voice note.

• 1:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's-

• 1:41Rayna Greenberg?

  That's what the fall does to me.

• 1:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, and New England. I mean, I think Boston is the most charming major city in America.

• 1:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Whoa.

• 1:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  Name it, name it, name another one.

• 1:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Charming architecturally?

• 1:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, like little, it's Charleston.

• 1:55Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm not, this is not taking anything away from Boston. I think Boston is gorgeous. It's the most historic city. I find Charleston really beautiful.

• 2:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Charleston's up there, but I think of Boston as a bigger, major city. I don't think of Charleston as a major city.

• 2:05Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, you're talking about-

• 2:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Boston's smaller than you would think.

• 2:07Rayna Greenberg?

  You're talking about top, top, major, major cities.

• 2:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  I want to say Boston's a top 10 city in the US, but population-wise, it's not. But I just think it's such a special place. And I feel like New England is like so hot right now. And so I was just walking around and just like, this is the most charming big city in America, and I will die on that hill.

• 2:24Rayna Greenberg?

  You might live there?

• 2:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, I mean, I have an update next week about staying in LA, and I'm excited to share with you guys next week. I just need to make sure it's completely locked in. But we're definitely, I think, going to be in LA for a little longer. But I'm like, I don't know. I just, I felt really at home there this weekend, and I just feel so loved there. Like, we've toured so much there, and like, when I meet people on the street-

• 2:46Rayna Greenberg?

  People give you the respect that you deserve on the East Coast.

• 2:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  Thank you.

• 2:49Rayna Greenberg?

  In New York, I can't walk down the street without some girl going, you changed my life? Oh, my God, I love you so much. I love you guys.

• 2:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  I, it's never in LA.

• 2:56Rayna Greenberg?

  I feel-

• 2:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  No respect in LA.

• 2:57Rayna Greenberg?

  I feel beloved in Boston and Chicago.

• 3:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  New York?

• 3:02Rayna Greenberg?

  Wait till you walk down, I mean, the amount of you that come up to us in New York, Boston, Philly. Honestly, I get more people come up to me in Paris than I do in LA.

• 3:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  So it was just really nice. So, you know, shout out to all of the Boston girlies that just make me feel so loved and so at home there. And you never know. I mean, that would be Shashank's dream. I don't know, I'd be closer to you.

• 3:20Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't know if I can move back here, and you know that. Okay.

• 3:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  You know, I've been knowing that you're not moving back here.

• 3:26Rayna Greenberg?

  But we're going to take our partners. We are going to talk about it. So, thank you to Hinge. Download the dating app designed to be deleted and Noom. Start a GLP-1 program for $39 and have it delivered in as little as seven days at noom.com.

• 3:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  And thank you to Revolve. Get 15% off your first order at revolve.com/gge with code GGE.

• 3:45Rayna Greenberg?

  How do you feel about my outfit?

• 3:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Um, I-

• 3:47Rayna Greenberg?

  You don't like it?

• 3:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  I, I like it.

• 3:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Is this a, I don't, I wouldn't wear myself, or is this a, I don't like it on you?

• 3:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  I, you know what it is?

• 3:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Ballet flat.

• 3:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  I actually love the outfit. I hate the shoes. And I would love to see this exact outfit with a pump.

• 4:04Rayna Greenberg?

  This, this is how I designed it. I did design it with like a slingback heel.

• 4:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  We're recording today.

• 4:07Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm wearing a white, I'm wearing black capris from Revolve, which we'll talk about, and a button-down white shirt. And I love the look with a heel, but we're recording, so I wear a white ballet flat.

• 4:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  So what I am trying to find for the fall to wear with capris and other things is a true pump that I love. Like, not a slingback. I don't want that slingback cut in. Not a stiletto for me, but maybe like a two and a half inch, not a kitten, maybe a three inch, but like a true pump, like a high heel.

• 4:34Rayna Greenberg?

  I love a pump.

• 4:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, I used to wear those all the time. I had these Jessica Simpson red pumps, like back in my twenties.

• 4:40Rayna Greenberg?

  Jessica Simpson shoes.

• 4:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  I have a Bigfoot, and so sometimes I'm thinking of a pair of slingbacks I have that I wore to a show once that like that, that cut into the back of my heel, you know?

• 4:49Rayna Greenberg?

  That's why, I mean, I was crippled for weeks after the US Open. I was wearing a flat slingback, and I was like gonna throw up. And it was, I won't listen, every week we talk about my feet. But, um, yeah, I like this with like a white pump.

• 5:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  A white pump, yeah. Or a nude pump. A nude pump elongates your legs.

• 5:03Rayna Greenberg?

  I've just been wearing capris a lot. I've just, I have not gotten to do fall fashion in years, Ashley. I'm fucking over the moon.

• 5:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  I have a few new outfits that I'm so excited about. One of them is already on my Instagram. I wore it out to dinner in Boston at Contessa. I did a photo shoot in that hallway, which is influencer central. Remember that hallway?

• 5:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 5:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  And so I, we walk in and like, we were not late, but we needed to get up to our rest, so I didn't get to do it in the way into the restaurant. And on the way out, I'm telling you, there was 10 girls trying to get this photo. And I was like, I don't need to be doing this. I don't need to be in this line. I'm too old for this shit. And we left and we're out in the street, and Shashank was like, they're all gone in the elevator. Why don't you go back in there? Because you have to take the elevator up to the rooftop.

• 5:40Rayna Greenberg?

  You're never too old to take that photo.

• 5:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  So he took the photos, and then I posted this on my Instagram with like his full camera roll of all these photos. So that's one outfit that I love, that the leather jacket, which I'll talk about shortly with Revolve. And then I had this outfit that is one of my favorite outfits I've ever gotten in my life for fall.

• 5:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Do I know about this?

• 5:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  I don't think you know about it quite yet, but it's these plaid pants and this like cropped cardigan.

• 6:02Rayna Greenberg?

  I am so excited about fall fashion. I have all these leather jackets that I've bought. Like, we went to Taylor Strecker and Taylor Donahue, who have been on our show, and they were on Sassy Schroder's reality show. They had like a welcome to fall party on Saturday night, and I wore a leather jacket as a shirt. I was just like over the moon excited.

• 6:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, that's how that look was. It's, I just talked about, like, the leather jacket stayed on the whole night. Like, I had a shirt under it, but the, didn't matter.

• 6:26Rayna Greenberg?

  I debated it.

• 6:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  A funnel neck.

• 6:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Yep.

• 6:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Love it. A short booty short.

• 6:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, I've not had fall in so long. I fucking love New York.

• 6:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know. Yeah. So, um, I just wanted to share some travel stories with you.

• 6:41Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 6:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  So flew to Boston first and then came here. So flew out, I flew American Flagship Business, which I think is one of the least expensive ways to get a lay flat. So American Flagship first, those are individual pods, the business, it's like two, two by two. And they're lay flats. I just find this to be like a great way to fly if you're trying to like take an early flight and sleep, whatever. So that's how I'm flying. So get to the airport. I am going to check in and check my bag. And there was like a woman kind of manning the like line area. She was asking for your boarding pass. I showed my boarding pass. And she looks at me so suspiciously, like it wasn't real. I was like, I'm priority. And she was like, hmm.

• 7:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, her energy was, yes, like, we'll see about that. And I, I'm holding it in her face. It says like priority flagship business, whatever the fuck. And she was like, I mean, I guess. And just like, let me go. I'm like, okay, it's going to be a weird morning. This is 5:30 in the morning for a 7:00 AM flight. So that happens. Go through security. Security was a madhouse. I don't know what was going on. So many people like in line, they had to manage people in line for the bins, you know, each person. It was just like really, way more people than I'm used to at LAX, and just kind of chaotic.

• 7:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Where are these people coming from?

• 7:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. So by the time I got my stuff into the bin and had went to get in line to go through the X-ray machine, I, it's like, that felt like it was so far away from my stuff. Like, there were so many people, whatever. So I go through, they, it buzzes, turns red. There's a woman and a man standing there. The woman was like, take off your jacket. And I was like, and do what with it? Like, and then what? She was like, put it back through the X-ray. And then the man goes, ma'am, you've been pulled for a random check. And I'm thinking, doesn't that mean I just go into the thing?

• 8:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, the thing.

• 8:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Why do I have to take my jacket?

• 8:30Rayna Greenberg?

  You had a jacket on?

• 8:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  I had a denim jacket on. I'm TSA pre-check. I'm just wearing a jacket.

• 8:33Rayna Greenberg?

  I take jackets off.

• 8:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  You don't have to take your jacket off.

• 8:36Rayna Greenberg?

  Bold, leaving a jacket on. I didn't know that was even an option.

• 8:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  You don't have to take your jacket off.

• 8:41Rayna Greenberg?

  Didn't know. Thought it was shoes only. Okay.

• 8:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's not a thing.

• 8:43Rayna Greenberg?

  I didn't know.

• 8:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm just wearing like a denim jacket.

• 8:45Rayna Greenberg?

  They always, ma'am, take your jacket off to me.

• 8:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  So he's like, we're gonna need your jacket. I'm like, is that what this, isn't the random check just that I have to go into the thing?

• 8:53Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 8:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  You know, and like arms up, arms down, whatever. They don't know what's going on. They're just like, just take the jacket off. And I'm literally like, I'm not trying to cause a scene, but do you want to hold it? What, what do you want me to do with it? And he's like, you got to put it back in the thing. I'm like, I'm so far away from my stuff. There are 100 people between me and my stuff. I don't really understand where you want me to put it. And he motions to this woman, he throws her the jacket, right? Kobe, like, he literally throws it. She stuffs it into the bin. I'm like, it's everyone's first day working at the airport. So that happens. I'm like, this has just been a crazy day. Like, I don't think that the random alert meant I had to like remove my jacket. You guys just decided to do that in the moment.

• 9:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Those are two different situations.

• 9:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  He was making up rules as they went.

• 9:33Rayna Greenberg?

  I do think that you are wrong and you need to take your jacket off. However-

• 9:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  You do not need to.

• 9:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Let's look this up afterwards.

• 9:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Jackets and shoes stay on your TSA. Not a big puffy jacket, but just a denim jacket.

• 9:43Rayna Greenberg?

  Part of my outfit.

• 9:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  100%.

• 9:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Um, that's not a thing.

• 9:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Selected for a random thing.

• 9:48Rayna Greenberg?

  Then, but again, when she said it, she just was making up on the spot. She was like, take that jacket off.

• 9:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  I was like, okay. So

• 9:55Rayna Greenberg?

  Take the metal in your body out, ma'am.

• 9:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  So then we get on the plane and when they come around, the flight attendant comes around for to check what we had ordered to eat. This woman, I made some notes because I didn't want to forget anything. I just want to describe the way she looks. She's probably 55 years old, flight attendant, American, obviously, bleach blonde, updo, hot pink lip, blue eyeliner, like really felt like she's like out of a different time. And she says to me, she's like, ma'am, it says here, you pre-ordered the fruit plate. And I was like, oh, I didn't remember that, but

• 10:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Sounds like you. Yeah.

• 10:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  So I look at the menu in front of me and I see on the bottom of the menu, it says there's a cheese plate. Like there's three courses. The bottom says like cheese and fruit. And I go, oh, the, the cheese plate? She goes, no, everybody gets that. And I was like, okay. I said, there's four main dishes on here. Which one did I order? There's like an eggs, there's a biscuit, there's a muesli, there's oatmeal. So I'm thinking like, which main dish did I order? She says, you got the fruit plate. So then I look at the menu again. At the top of the menu, it says fruit plate as a starter. So I'm like, oh, so I just ordered the starter as my entree somehow? She goes, no, everybody gets that fruit plate.

• 11:12Rayna Greenberg?

  The Gen Z stare has infected this 55 year old woman.

• 11:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  She just stares at me. I'm like, is it the fruit plate? Is it the cheese plate? What did I order? And I'm like, Ashley, stay calm. She's staring at me. We're in a standoff. I'm in the window. So the guy that's in the aisle is just like between us. Like he doesn't know what to do, right? So I hold up the menu to her again. And I say, ma'am, did I order the eggs, the biscuit, the muesli, or the oatmeal? She goes, the muesli.

• 11:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Obviously you ordered the muesli. I know you ordered the muesli.

• 11:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right as she said, fruit plate, five times.

• 11:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, obviously. That's not, I just, I know you and I know that you selected muesli.

• 11:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  The way she said it was like, she hadn't just said fruit plate five times, Raina. So she walks away, the man next to me burst into tears laughing. He was like, that was the craziest thing I've ever witnessed. I was like, did she not say fruit plate to me five times? And then finally she was like, ah, like we had this big laugh about it. So she comes by with the starter fruit plate that everybody gets, puts it down in front of me. She goes, your first fruit plate?

• 12:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Raina? And I'm going to put a picture on the screen. It was a true fruit plate. Okay?

• 12:18Rayna Greenberg?

  Your first fruit plate?

• 12:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Your first fruit plate?

• 12:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Do you think she thought about that the whole way down the aisle?

• 12:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  She's like, I'm gonna get her. Yeah. The entrees come out, sets it down, your second fruit plate?

• 12:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Let me show you.

• 12:31Rayna Greenberg?

  What was on it?

• 12:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Let me fucking show you. That's it. It's a fruit plate with a ramekin of yogurt. It is a fruit plate. There's literally that, it's a ramekin of muesli. It's not a bowl. It's not a plate. It's like a side dish of yogurt next to this, yes, second fruit plate. This is an issue with the menu, American Airlines. Like she roasted me. She like wouldn't let up. The way your second fruit plate? And I was like, that is a fucking fruit plate. I thought I was getting like yogurt and granola.

• 13:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, that's what you got on Delta. There's a plate. It's that the primary thing on the plate is the yogurt.

• 13:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  Should be the main part of the plate. It was another fruit plate with a tiny little side of a muesli.

• 13:18Rayna Greenberg?

  A dipping, a ramekin, if you will, of yogurt.

• 13:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  So now I see where she was coming from.

• 13:23Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. You're like, now I'm on your page.

• 13:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  The guy next to me, again, busted out laughing when they set that down in front of me.

• 13:28Rayna Greenberg?

  What did he get?

• 13:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  He got the biscuit.

• 13:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Did he get a normal amount of food? It was like a normal plate?

• 13:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, he got like the, yes.

• 13:33Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 13:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  We had a couple weird interactions with him too, whatever.

• 13:36Rayna Greenberg?

  What'd he do?

• 13:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  So he turns to me, a really attractive black man, like I was like, okay, this is a great seatmate to have. You know, they give you like a big, the case with your over ear headphones if you want to watch movies or whatever. So he had his, sitting under his laptop is like to, to prop up his laptop. And he goes, hey, are you using your headphones? And I was like, no. He was like, do you mind if I, and he was like, I'm using mine to prop up my laptop. And he was like, I'll give them back if you need them.

• 14:04Rayna Greenberg?

  He used his headphones as a table?

• 14:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  The case, because it's, it's big.

• 14:08Rayna Greenberg?

  It seems unsteady, but okay.

• 14:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  But if you needed the headphones, you could have taken them out and still used the hard shell.

• 14:15Rayna Greenberg?

  No, he wanted to use the headphones. I thought he wanted an extra case to prop the computer up even higher.

• 14:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Now, I don't know if he did. I didn't actually, he was using his headphones as like a laptop, a stand, and then he asked for mine.

• 14:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Are you gonna eat that? That's crazy.

• 14:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  He was like, give me the extra headphones. And I never needed it back. Like it was fine. Yeah. So that was like my travel experience. But yeah.

• 14:41Rayna Greenberg?

  Andrew Collin and I were supposed to get on a plane the other day and then they did not put us on the plane. And it was this little cutie pilot. And he was like, so here's what's going on. The sound system is making a noise. And I don't think that you guys are going on this plane for like hours with the noise. Can we all agree? We don't want to be on the plane with the noise. And everyone's like, no noise, like.

• 14:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  No. He was doing crowd work?

• 14:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes. And he was such a little cutie.

• 15:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, this was in the terminal?

• 15:02Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. It was great.

• 15:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Did I ever talk about that one time? What airport was I in? When, why were they playing bingo at the gate?

• 15:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Who was playing bingo?

• 15:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  The gate agent was running a bingo game.

• 15:13Rayna Greenberg?

  Was it like airport bingo? Like what was it like?

• 15:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  I don't know what was going on. I don't remember which airport it was, but like I heard some commotion over at the gate across on the other side of the airport. And there was, they were doing bingo over there. The gate agent was running it. It was fucking crazy. And like, where do they get the cards? Do they have writing utensils? Is it because of this delay? They're just trying to distract people? I kid you not. It was wild.

• 15:34Rayna Greenberg?

  I didn't know that was legal.

• 15:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  I don't understand.

• 15:36Rayna Greenberg?

  You have to hear stuff at the airport and it's already hard enough to hear. Like, when will they invest in a sound system that you can hear at the airport or at a plane? The world may never know. We probably never will. But I didn't know that we were like allowed to be like silly.

• 15:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. I mean, Southwest, they got that unlocked.

• 15:50Rayna Greenberg?

  It does sound like, it's, I mean, it's not Delta.

• 15:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. So anyway, that was, you know, never a dull moment on American. That's, that's for sure.

• 15:58Rayna Greenberg?

  I never have any reason to fly American anymore. You're so lucky.

• 16:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. Well, we have Serena Kerrigan, you guys today. We just recorded with her and it is such a delight. So much fun advice. And we just ask her all of our burning questions about her relationship and her new book and all the things. So we are so excited for you guys to hear it. But we are just going to tell you about our partners and we will get into it with her.

• 16:18Rayna Greenberg?

  This is the perfect partner, actually, for an episode about dating. Hinge, truly the dating app that I think facilitates the easiest conversation, the most dates. It's so easy to use. And, you know, I think a lot of people feel like dating apps, it's just, it's hard to swipe and swipe and swipe. And Hinge has been built to facilitate dating with intention. So the profiles are great. It's easy to upload the photos, but the prompts are really what I think create connection and conversation. And it's built to encourage you to talk to people, get to know people, be positive, share something funny or interesting about yourself, be vulnerable, and just feel empowered to like start a conversation, get off the app, go on a first date, see if you like somebody, be brave. And I just love all the things they're doing. Ashley and I say all the time, we know so many friends that have had fantastic dates, have gotten

• 17:02Rayna Greenberg?

  married from Hinge. And I think that, you know, we're in a time where people are working from home. There's not as many ways to meet people out in the wild. Hinge is the way to facilitate that, help you to date with intention, and just find what like feels right for you.

• 17:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. It's my favorite dating app I've ever used in my life. I can vouch for it. I feel like it's really funny. If you tell somebody how you met and it's not through an app or something, like they'll be like, I thought you were going to say Hinge. Like I have this new friend and she asked, how's Shoshon and I got together? And it's like such a long crazy story. But she's like, I thought you were gonna say Hinge. Like it's just become like the household name of like, that's actually the dating app that works. And you like meet real couples and go to real weddings. And it's like, met on Hinge. Where else would you meet?

• 17:44Rayna Greenberg?

  They just really will facilitate conversations for you. And you can share so many things about yourself, respond to people's photos and their prompts and what they got going on. And then get off the dating app and get into real life. And we have a great episode that'll help you do this, but this is a great tool. So Hinge, download dating app designed to be deleted.

• 18:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. Revolve, fall fashion. If you guys are going to be in your fall fashion bag, this is how you have to do it. Raina, are those the Commando?

• 18:06Rayna Greenberg?

  These, so they have Commando. I mean, obviously we love, they have so many brands. These are super down.

• 18:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  They are. Are the super down ones too?

• 18:12Rayna Greenberg?

  So affordable. They're stretchy. I've been wearing them like constantly.

• 18:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. So we both have the super down, which is one of Revolve's house brands, black capris. I just got the Commando ones. So comfortable. I'm just obsessed with them. These plaid pants I'm wearing are Revolve. You just check the tag for me. Was it, it was stone?

• 18:29Rayna Greenberg?

  Stone cold.

• 18:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  We love their brands. And I just mentioned, I got this faux leather jacket from Revolve that I'm so obsessed with that I had to do a photo shoot and grid post about it. And it's Alice and Olivia. It's got this funnel neck. It's this gorgeous, I'm looking at it right now. It's this gorgeous burgundy color. And I just love it so, so much. So that with a pair of short shorts and a heel for fall. I'm loving that look. Plaid pants, I'm all about. And again, just the capris and the jackets, everything they have is incredible. They have a fall shop. Anything you want on Revolve, you can just put it in the search bar and they will spit out a bunch of results, all different price points. And then we also love that when you see an item you like, they'll give you a bunch of suggested items under it. And they really understand your taste. They understand your sizing. Like they usually will say, we recommend the size. It's

• 19:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  always correct for me. Uh, we are obsessed with the fast shipping, two day free shipping, easy returns, the labels in the box. They make it so easy for you. They're just really pro customer. They really like cater to their customer. We love it. They don't make it hard for you in any way. And you can get all your outfits that you want for a random Tuesday, work, work from home, or a big night out, or a wedding, whatever you have going on. So if you're looking at your closet right now, thinking, no, none of this is working, just go to Revolve. They have all the brands you actually want. There's always something new and you can order a few options because the shipping is fast and the returns are easy. Go to revolve.com/gge to shop our faves and use code GGE for 15% off your first Order, that's revolve.com slash GGE code GGE for 15% off your first order.

• 19:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  And this offer ends October 10th. So don't miss out revolve.com slash GG code GG.

• 20:04Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, I'm telling you guys about Noom. And if you're curious about taking GLP ones, I'll just be open about my own experience. I have been on them. I've had really positive experiences. But I think a lot of people, when they are either curious about GLP ones, one of the first questions is like, what if I want to get off of them? Or what if I want to figure out how to eat healthy and work out the way that is good for my body? Like, and I don't want to only rely on this. If you are curious about GLP ones, I would suggest checking out Noom. They are the leading behavioral change company, and they believe that losing weight is only half the battle. So I really love what they're doing. Losing weight can be the easy part with GLP ones, but the harder part is sort of understanding, like, what does my body need? How do I feel full, comfortable? How do I eat healthy? How do I work out in a way that works for me? Understanding and managing the food noise?

• 20:49Rayna Greenberg?

  How do I make intentional decisions about food and exercise? And for that reason, I really love what Noom is doing. They have an app. It's really easy to use. And when you sign up, they're going to give you suggestions for what to eat, how to exercise. They're going to help you make progress that you can keep, and it's designed for real life. So it'll help people stay on track, even when your life kind of gets busy or unpredictable. It's psychology-based and science-backed programs pairs GLP ones with behavioral changes, daily lessons, and food logging, sport, weight loss that lasts. And I love that it's not just like, take this GLP one. It's let's find a way to integrate good habits into your life so that this is sustainable for you. So I love what they're doing. The program is designed to maximize your success with GLP ones while helping you develop sustainable habits to live better and longer. They are the leading behavioral change company.

• 21:34Rayna Greenberg?

  They help people lose weight and keep it off. And the Noom GLP one program starts at $39 and is delivered to your door in as little as seven days. Start your GLP one journey today at noom.com. That's N-O-O-M.com. Noom, Lose for Keeps, and the initial month subscription from $39 plus tax and $99 plus tax per month thereafter. Cost of the medication is not included. Final pricing depends on program selection.

• 21:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, let's get into it.

• 22:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, guys, we are very excited to welcome back a guest today. She is an entrepreneur, creator, Forbes 30 Under 30 honoree. She has built a brand around confidence, dating, and relationships. She is the creator of Let's Fucking Date, which has grown from a digital dating series into card games, live shows, and a community of over a million people. Her first book, Let's Fucking Date: Become the Prize, Enjoy the Ride, and Never Settle Again, is out now. Please welcome back to the show our friend Serena Kerrigan.

• 22:25Speaker 02

  Yay! Guys, thanks for having me. I also want to say thank you for the blowjob spray, because that shit changed my life.

• 22:32Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, my God. Okay. So she's talking about our Vibes Only, like flavored blowjob gel. We brought you more today. We'll send you guys some.

• 22:39Speaker 02

  Okay, I'm not giving out much chat, relax.

• 22:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  I don't think you have time for blowjob this week.

• 22:42Speaker 02

  Absolutely not.

• 22:44Rayna Greenberg?

  On a book tour?

• 22:45Speaker 02

  No, but it's phenomenal. I posted on my story. It's amazing. It makes a penis taste delicious.

• 22:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, yeah. I don't know which flavor you would have, but we have a bunch.

• 22:53Speaker 02

  It's on the oh. Okay. I won't be giving out much chat, but hey, you never know.

• 22:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Are you still giving blowjobs? How many years have you been with Felix?

• 23:00Speaker 02

  Three and a half.

• 23:01Rayna Greenberg?

  Are you still, you guys are oral sometimes?

• 23:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. Honestly, I feel like it, it's not something that he asked for, which is probably why I like to do it still. You know what I mean? It's not like, oh.

• 23:10Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 23:10Speaker 02

  But I think it's this kind of powerful thing. Like, I feel very in control. I'm like, I could bite your dick off. You know what I mean?

• 23:16Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, I always say that. I feel like it's like very powerful. 100%.

• 23:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, this is a great start.

• 23:21Speaker 02

  To completion?

• 23:22Rayna Greenberg?

  No.

• 23:22Speaker 02

  No, no, no. I have. It's rare. Oh.

• 23:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  On like a birthday, maybe.

• 23:26Speaker 02

  Right, okay.

• 23:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  I did it the other day by accident.

• 23:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Like, I only finished if they're like, I'm gonna finish. And I'm like, oh, that wasn't supposed to happen. And then I will make it so unpleasant for you. Like, I will walk around like, oh, like, I will not make, it's like butt sex. Like, you could do it to me, but I will not make you enjoy this.

• 23:43Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 23:44Rayna Greenberg?

  So I'm not looking to finish.

• 23:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, we did a whole episode on this because people get scared that they have to finish it. It's like, this can be foreplay. First, we have to rewrite this narrative.

• 23:53Speaker 02

  Guys, we're busy. Like, let's be real.

• 23:55Rayna Greenberg?

  But then what? What do you mean? Well, if they come, I guess they're gonna go down on me now. It's foreplay. I only did it the other day because we'd had sex twice.

• 24:03Speaker 02

  You don't have to defend it?

• 24:04Rayna Greenberg?

  No, no, I do. No, I do. I do have to defend it. We'd had sex twice that day, and I just was a little sore. And I still like, was like, wanted to play around a little bit. And again, it was, I didn't mean to finish it.

• 24:13Speaker 02

  Caught you off guard.

• 24:13Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 24:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Who was this with?

• 24:16Rayna Greenberg?

  The only dick I've been sucking in months.

• 24:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, okay, got it. Yeah.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  Okay, just making sure it wasn't a 21-year-old. Anyway, I thank you for your innovation.

• 24:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  Raina met a 21-year-old, and she like, didn't know.

• 24:27Speaker 02

  What I've been saying. Date younger guys.

• 24:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  20 years younger.

• 24:32Speaker 02

  20 years is incredible. What did you learn?

• 24:34Rayna Greenberg?

  He's so cute. He's such a cute.

• 24:36Speaker 02

  Does he worship you?

• 24:37Rayna Greenberg?

  No, we didn't get that far.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  Yet.

• 24:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  You're gonna mommy kink. Okay, so book launch week.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  I hate to ask the most generic question, how are you feeling? Because it's so broad. But like, I would do want to know, like, what are your three primary emotions?

• 24:52Speaker 02

  Relief.

• 24:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 24:54Speaker 02

  And pride and anticipation. I feel very grateful. I think I've spoken to a lot of authors. And the thing about writing a book is like, you don't really know anything about it until you're in it. And then you're like, holy shit, this is insane. Writing it, I had the best time of my life. I literally was like ODing on Adderall. I was just like, in my office, type, type, typing away. Like, I really enjoyed it. It brought me so much joy. The promotion part of it is very interesting because people just don't buy fucking books. Like, it's crazy. It makes sense. There's AI now. There's video content. Like, people are illiterate. I don't know. Like, it's a difficult thing to sell. It's also nonfiction. Typically, fiction sells better. Obviously, like, people want like a steamy romance novel, whatever.

• 25:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  But at the end of the day, like, I felt like it was the time to write this book because I've been online giving advice for years. And yes, like, obviously, you can make a lot of impact with an Instagram story or a video, but there is a, something about reading is a different process that you can't replicate with a video. It's a different experience. So people ask me, they're like, well, what can I get out of your book that I haven't seen online? I'm like, a lot, because it's like, it's a book.

• 26:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  And it's 368 pages.

• 26:03Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, so I just touched this for the first time. It's the most beautiful cover I've ever seen. I love that it doesn't have the jacket. I know.

• 26:11Speaker 02

  Okay, let's talk about that. Jackets get, people take off the jackets.

• 26:14Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, when I pulled it out of the thing, I couldn't believe no jacket.

• 26:17Speaker 02

  No jacket.

• 26:18Rayna Greenberg?

  No, it's insane. It's like a Bible.

• 26:19Speaker 02

  She's a slut. She has no jacket on.

• 26:21Rayna Greenberg?

  Did you anticipate that length? It's so long.

• 26:25Speaker 02

  It's a Bible. It actually feels like a Bible.

• 26:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. And not too long, you guys. Don't be intimidated.

• 26:29Speaker 02

  You're holding your new Bible. No, guys, the chapters, it's 80 chapters. They're really short.

• 26:33Rayna Greenberg?

  I told Ashley that. She's like, I thought you were lying to me.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  No, no, it's the TikTok-ification of a book. Okay. I did this for the ADHD generation. If that's you, don't worry, I got you because I don't want fluff. Like, the number one comment I keep seeing is like, she's no fluff. She got right to the fucking point. Each chapter is like two pages, three pages long. The no jacket was, I think, because I wanted people to take this on the subway. The most important thing was I wanted to create a cover that you wouldn't feel embarrassed if you had it in your living room or your coffee table. Because when I had getting him to I do the rules, the rules literally says, this dating book called The Rules, literally says, like, hide this book. Like, it literally tells you to hide it.

• 27:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Right.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  So they, because it says, like, it's about getting him to propose.

• 27:12Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 27:12Speaker 02

  Uh huh. So I wanted a book where like, you could probably have this on your coffee table, and like, you wouldn't blink, right? So that was really important to me.

• 27:18Rayna Greenberg?

  So you really take people through every chapter of like, life stages, through like, being single is actually pretty awesome, to like, how do you prioritize your, how do you find somebody at the gray area, all the way through, like, okay, you found somebody, but like, the work doesn't stop. Relationships are fucking hard.

• 27:32Speaker 02

  It's interesting to me how many comments I've got being like, I want to buy your book, or I supported you, I bought it, but like, I'm not single. And I'm like, that's so interesting because for me, like, it's the second last chapter of this book is called Marriage is Not the Finish Line. Because I feel like we're convinced that if you get the guy, get the ring, kick your feet up and relax. I'm like, bitch, it's starting now. It's hard to be with somebody.

• 27:55Rayna Greenberg?

  There is nothing easier than being single. I say it all the time. Dating is hard. Being single is so easy. You don't have to think about somebody's feelings. No one's annoying you all the time. Marriage, relationships, they're really hard.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  Well, when you say something.

• 28:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, you had a different line for me the other day that I liked. Oh, I saw a thread that said unpopular opinion or hot take or whatever, marriage isn't hard. Marriage is easy. Life is hard. Like, marriage should be a soft place to land.

• 28:21Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 28:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  When life is hard. Your partner should not be making your life harder. And I think people have this thing of it's such a hard, such a struggle. And it's like, that should be the person that makes your life easier. Not every moment of every day. Like, we all have conflict. I mean, I want to talk about your relationship too, and I have a pretty conflict. I don't have a lot of conflict in my relationship. I don't want to say conflict free, but it makes my life easier and better, not harder.

• 28:47Speaker 02

  There's a chapter in my book called Gloves Off, because my parents got divorced when I was two. So I just associated like fighting with a breakup, right? Like it's over. I didn't realize that the sign of a healthy relationship isn't the absence of conflict. It's actually how that you're working through it in like a peaceful way where there's no door slamming and you know, raising your voice. That to me was so foreign. And like, that is truly the hallmark, I think, of a great relationship. It's not if you have a fucking ring on your finger, although go off sis, like I'm, you know, one day. But it's about like, if you also are having conflict, to be able to like, resolve it. And they thought it pat, you know, it doesn't keep coming up again because that person genuinely wants to make you happy. They don't want you to feel bad, right?

• 29:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  They should. It should feel like you're on the same team. Like if you're, you feel like that's your adversary, we're in the bad place.

• 29:32Speaker 02

  You want to win, like you want to show him. Yeah. I literally would be like sweating at night, being like, did I forget a chapter? Like it really, I wanted it to be encompassing because I wanted it to be a book where like you could keep going back to it. If you ever got anxious or like you felt alone, that you're like, oh Serena, she wrote about this, let me go read it. That's what I wanted it to give you a hug and a slap in the face.

• 29:51Rayna Greenberg?

  I like that you explain why the chapters are short. It's bite sized. It's meant to be like for the Tik Tokification of the world. It's just like, let's digest this in three pages.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  Correct, because you're smart and you actually know the fucking answer. You just want me to remind you of it. You know what I mean? Like everyone who messages me paragraphs, paragraphs all day, all the women who message me asking for advice. I literally sometimes will respond being like, if I said this to you verbatim, what would you say? They write the most concise, three line paragraph. And I'm like, the most perfect advice ever. I'm like, bitch, you knew the answer.

• 30:17Rayna Greenberg?

  You knew the answer.

• 30:18Speaker 02

  You always know the answer. I'm just here to remind you.

• 30:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. So can I start with something that I really liked from the very beginning of the book? I said to Ashley, I thought it really added a lot of humility to your story. Cause I think your whole brand is like, I'm Serena fucking Kerrigan and you're the prize. And the beginning of your book is like, I created this brand, but I wasn't really like finding what I wanted. Yeah. And I thought it added like some really amazing humility to the beginning of the book. So can we like start there a little bit?

• 30:43Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Listen, like I was insecure like any other bitch. And like my way of, of reminding myself of who I was and giving me that boost was to call myself Serena fucking Kerrigan and to be larger than life. And I think that is intrinsic in me. It's not like I'm performing or playing a part. It's like an exaggeration of me, but it's just like, it was also an overcompensation. It's like, I was constantly like, I'm, I mean, I literally, my Instagram, I was, I'm the queen of confidence. And like, I was just trying to like, show up as that. And, and I thought that confidence bent, like you walk into a room and like, I'm that fucking bitch. Where I think as with age, I realized that it's actually being okay to be soft and vulnerable and just be like, hi, I'm Serena. That's what confidence truly is.

• 31:23Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 31:23Speaker 02

  But it's a journey and we got there, but I think that for me, I was like giving all this dating advice. I was like, and by the way, so confident with what I was saying, because I knew I was right. But then it got to a point where I was 29 and I was like, oh my God, where the fuck is he? Like, where is this man? Cause I thought that my advice was good. And through the work, I realized that part of being able to be open to receiving love was to genuinely believe that I was deserving of it.

• 31:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  Wow. And this realization of I don't have to be Serena fucking Kerrigan in your face, walk in the room, like guns blazing. You know, I can be a little softer. Did that come before Felix or in that relationship? Or kind of in the same time?

• 32:00Speaker 02

  Before. By the way, if you're listening and you don't have an alter ego, that's fine.

• 32:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Guys, it's okay.

• 32:08Speaker 02

  It's actually probably for the best, no, just kidding. But it might be relatable to you because maybe you go to work and you're that bad bitch that's fucking like hustling. You're a CEO or like you literally like, you're getting promoted. Like women have to create space for themselves at a table. And we had this more masculine energy that we present. I found that like, but I didn't want that energy at home. I wanted, in my relationship, I wanted to be taken care of. Like I can take care of myself financially, we all can. But I wanted a masculine man to take care of me and to pick where we're going for dinner, make the plan, just like, take care of me emotionally. In order to do that, I couldn't come onto a date and be like, I'm Serena fucking Kerrigan. Like I had to, so I remember before dates, I'd be like, soft Serena, soft Serena. And I talk about that in the book of just like, your presence is a precedent. You don't have to overcompensate. You don't have to like, make the plan and over manage the situation

• 32:53Speaker 02

  because you have to trust that you are good enough and that it's going to happen with the right person.

• 32:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. And I love that. It's not be submissive and that type of advice, but it's just like, you can relax.

• 33:04Speaker 02

  Kick your feet up and let him like, because I felt like if I didn't make the plan, call the reservation, like do all the things, like to ask him what day he was free, then it wouldn't happen. Yeah. If it's not happening, then he was never yours to begin with.

• 33:17Rayna Greenberg?

  I think we all want to find sort of that balance between like being in the driver's seat and feeling like you can kind of deescalate a little bit. And so much dating advice to me is really contradictory to that. It's like, be confident, but let them lead, you know? And there's just, the amount of dating advice in the world is, there's just so much of it. And I think it's hard to be like, what relates to me and what am I able to take in? And how can I kind of like tune out the rest of the noise? And it sounds like you kind of were able to like cherry pick what even works for you from your own dating advice and find a person that fits within that.

• 33:45Speaker 02

  Listen, I think, yeah, you should be a confident woman and yes, you should let him leave because I think that men show their interest through pursuit.

• 33:51Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 33:51Speaker 02

  And if you don't let them lead, then you don't know if they're genuinely trying to pursue you or if you're just making it so easy for them that they're like, yeah.

• 33:57Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, or they're just lazy.

• 33:59Speaker 02

  That's the thing. Like, I'm like, sure, text him first. It doesn't matter. After a date, I would, if I texted him first, then maybe he would respond and be polite. Then we'd strike up a conversation, then he would see me again. But I would never know, was he going to text me? Was he actually going to pursue me? That's why sometimes I'm like, just relax, kind of like lean back. What do you think? I feel like you disagree.

• 34:18Rayna Greenberg?

  No, I don't disagree. I just, I think there's so much dating advice in the world. And I think that you have to just figure out like where you feel the most comfortable. And it sounds like you found a balance between like, I can be confident. I can also let somebody be a person and fill the space also and lead a little bit. And it's just, it's really hard to decide like when to say when and when to stick up for yourself, when to say no. And just, there's a lot of this out there.

• 34:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  I saw this quote recently, I'm not going to get it word for word, but it was the sentiment that the more you do for a man, he doesn't think you're so great. He thinks I'm so great. Maybe it was Serena. I don't know, but I saw this like, I think, I said this to Emily the other day. It's just like, I'm going to show him how much I care and do everything for him and show him how nurturing I am and how good of a mother I'll be and a good wife. And all he thinks is I'm so great. That's why she's doing all this for me. And I think that the more you let a man do stuff for you, I think that's where he feels valuable in the relationship. We've always said this, because I think we, we all can do all this stuff on our own. But you have to kind of release the grip and let them show their value in a relationship.

• 35:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  And they need to feel needed too. I think that's where everything goes south, is a man not feeling needed.

• 35:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Women can't relate. Women are like, we always feel needed. We have to do everything.

• 35:32Rayna Greenberg?

  People in general need to feel needed, but women can't relate because we always feel needed. Everybody needs to do everything for us.

• 35:37Speaker 02

  Literally true.

• 35:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  So your relationship now, I'm just curious, do you want to get married? Are you?

• 35:43Speaker 02

  Yes. Okay. I do.

• 35:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm just curious if people ask.

• 35:46Speaker 02

  All the time. Right. So I grew up with parents that never got remarried. And actually same with Felix, his parents were also divorced at two, never got remarried. I never grew up with a mom or dad ever saying, when you get married, your husband, I never heard those words. And I'm so grateful because they did not place any value on a marriage. A healthy relationship, absolutely. I feel like us getting two dachshunds was more of a commitment than a fucking ring. You know what I mean? Like, don't get me wrong. It is a commitment and it's amazing and I'm looking forward to it. But the pressure I feel, if anything, it's about having kids. And I was luckily, I froze my eggs. So I feel like that also awarded me some time. Also, my boyfriend is six years younger than me. He's 26 years old. He's not ready to get married. There's no rush for it, right?

• 36:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Totally. Do you like, when you go home for the holidays, is that not your experience? That people are like, when are you guys getting married? I've heard you post about this, that you're like, can everybody stop fucking asking me this shit?

• 36:41Speaker 02

  So people ask me all the time, but I don't blame them. Like I understand why it's exciting and we're in love and it's like, why not? But I think like the age thing is a factor, you know what I mean?

• 36:50Rayna Greenberg?

  He's 26.

• 36:51Speaker 02

  Also, it's expensive as fuck to get married.

• 36:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  You're telling me, as a person who paid for a wedding. Okay. You just got a second puppy.

• 37:01Speaker 02

  I got another dog, like two weeks before my book launch. What, what about it?

• 37:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  And so was that always the plan?

• 37:06Speaker 02

  No.

• 37:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. I mean, I, I've been fostering, so just having two, there's something different about it. It's really fun to have two dogs.

• 37:13Speaker 02

  It's great, honestly, because I felt a lot of pressure to like entertain Pancho and now we have Pablo. They like play with each other. It's amazing. The shitting and the peeing is out of control, but like, what are you going to do?

• 37:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  To you about

• 37:25Speaker 02

  Everyone want to listen.

• 37:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Training a puppy with Felix.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  Honestly, Ashley sent me so many topics for you today, and that's the only one I left.

• 37:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Was probably training.

• 37:33Speaker 02

  Like why?

• 37:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Get to it. It's just, it's like, I can't imagine doing it solo. So it's like, I feel like, I'd be like, we are in such a solid relationship that we have this like division of labor and we are a team. Doing this because I think those things like raising a child fall on the woman.

• 37:47Speaker 02

  Oh, interesting.

• 37:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  So you're both like taking him out, doing this stuff.

• 37:50Speaker 02

  Full division of labor.

• 37:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, love this.

• 37:51Speaker 02

  Yes. And I think that is really important. By the way, that's not going to happen in my relationship. So like, it all falls on the woman. It's not.

• 37:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  Absolutely not. We were never thought that it would.

• 38:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  I just have to say, your dog account, I actually really enjoy it and it's really funny.

• 38:07Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 38:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  The voice, the whole thing.

• 38:09Speaker 02

  I'm basically writing what I would want to write, but I would get canceled. So I do it through a dog's P O P. That's why.

• 38:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's exactly it. It's, Poncho the diva, diva's in the name.

• 38:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  He's a diva. Well, congrats on your new addition.

• 38:21Speaker 02

  Thank you. No, I love your blonde mini wieners. All I want is like a blonde wiener.

• 38:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  A blonde mini wiener. It's the only dog I like see her with.

• 38:29Speaker 02

  Baby.

• 38:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's the only thing I want. So I kind of want to circle back to the first date stuff. You talk about this a lot. You go on a great first date. You spiral after you may or may not hear from him. I want to just hear the self-talk there and your three Ps of a first date. Cause I think this is like the most relatable thing because all of us have been on the most amazing first date. That's my husband. Oh my God.

• 38:52Speaker 02

  Which has it ever been?

• 38:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Has it ever been? It's usually not. That's the, those, that's a red flag when it's like.

• 38:59Speaker 02

  Is that crazy?

• 39:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. That's the date that you're like, that's going to be my husband. It's never, it never ends up being your husband.

• 39:04Speaker 02

  Totally. I feel like, you know, I think sometimes there's bad advice on your book, but like, you know, if you sort of like somebody on a first date, go on a second date and I think you can decide if you want to or not. I don't, I don't encourage people to like go out with somebody they feel lukewarm about, but I can't decide if I've ever felt, have I, am I like, that's my husband?

• 39:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think that, that crazy spark is anxiety. Or can just be they're too charming and they're like that with everybody.

• 39:28Speaker 02

  And they're a love bomber.

• 39:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. So when you go out with that guy, he's like that with everybody. He, he makes me feel like the only woman in the room. Yeah. You and every other woman he's ever gone into date with. Not always, but a lot of the success stories we hear are like, yeah, I liked him immediately. Of course, but it wasn't.

• 39:43Speaker 02

  Same. No, there was a spark with Felix. Now you can watch the podcast. You can watch our first date. It's on YouTube. But it's like, there's not that, when I left, I was like, yeah, I'd see him again.

• 39:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 39:52Speaker 02

  It's this calm, cool confidence because you feel secure.

• 39:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  Safe.

• 39:55Speaker 02

  It was always with the guys that I was fucking obsessed with. I was changing my name. Like, oh my God, I literally just saw this last night. This girl's like crying on TikTok, like sobbing. And she's like, guys, I like changed my last name to be his name on Instagram, just to see what it would look like. And like it, it locked it in and I can't change it for another 14 days.

• 40:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  She like, she should be on GMA.

• 40:19Speaker 02

  Literally like Ellen. That's what she, she would have been on Ellen. She would have been on Ellen. Like, no, no, no. I actually would, I would deactivate my account, obviously.

• 40:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. So let's walk through, we have a woman that wants to find somebody. She wants a relationship. Maybe she wants to get married, whatever. But she is like, has decided she's ready to be committed and.

• 40:38Speaker 02

  Do you want me to just rip out the three things she should do?

• 40:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. Yes. And like, how does it feel before the date and after the date?

• 40:43Speaker 02

  This is what you need to do. I know I clocked you doing this and I'm not saying that you do it all the time, but I'm saying.

• 40:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  I remember you told me.

• 40:49Speaker 02

  You have to remove any negative word from your speech when it comes to talking about yourself and relationships, dating.

• 40:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  It's like, seems so trivial, but I think it's legitimately everything.

• 41:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like a negative self-talk, you mean?

• 41:03Speaker 02

  It's, I don't think, it's not even about yourself. It's also about like, dating is so hard. Relationships are hard. Like, like anything like that, remove it. Like feelings are transitory. Like I feel frustrated. Like sometimes like, I'm so annoyed, but I hear women be like, dating sucks. Like I'm never going to find someone. York or LA, the worst city to date in. Remove those fucking words.

• 41:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  We have a reel for tomorrow. Don't ignore it, Serena. Just don't watch it.

• 41:26Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm literally going to report it. Like no more of that. You cannot do that because your words become your reality.

• 41:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 41:32Speaker 02

  And I don't think that if you feel like your city is the worst place to date in, you need to get outside of your bubble and go and get out of your comfort zone and do something in your city that you haven't done before.

• 41:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Date in a different city.

• 41:41Speaker 02

  Or go to a different city.

• 41:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  We think that, we agree that like, you can't go into this being like, men are terrible.

• 41:47Speaker 02

  Men are trash.

• 41:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Dating is awful. Like you can't, you just, you can't go into it being like, this is going to suck. What next? Next. What I will do is I'll have one drink and I'll start nagging somebody because I think it's playful, but it's, it's not.

• 41:59Speaker 02

  Right.

• 41:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  No one likes it. I also think, Rain and I have had this conversation where some of that stuff can be said jokingly or as self-preservation, but this whole like, men are trash. I don't need a man. You're setting yourself up to not find somebody with that type of mindset. Like, and then people over-correct with, it happens when you're not looking. And so people try to just not have it be a goal at all.

• 42:23Speaker 02

  The worst thing ever.

• 42:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  I, I talked to a matchmaker and I said something in the interview and I said, you know, it might never happen and that's okay. And she was like, it is okay, but if you want to find somebody, stop saying to yourself, it might never happen.

• 42:35Speaker 02

  I just posted a TikTok and I was like, there are eight billion fucking people on this earth and you think you're going to be the one person. And I'm speaking to you right now because you, you, you have friends. That, that's to me, that was the biggest thing. When I was single, I was like, I have friends that genuinely want to hang out with me, vacation with me, live with me, party with me. Like put up with my shit. Like, and I've been raw, vulnerable myself. And I'm like, if I have friends, then a man is coming because like, that to me is like, and that is to me, what shows you, it's like you have love in your life and people genuinely want to be around you. And if you're listening, you're like, I have no friends. Great. That's step one. Find one friend that you just like, can be your raw self with.

• 43:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, I totally agree. It's, it's just like, it's dressed for the job you want. Like, I really, when she said, you know, don't just, it's okay to accept, actually you might live alone. It's okay to accept that. But not when the goal is to find somebody like you should, it almost like manifests the opposite. Like going to a date and being like, this could be nothing. It's like, but what if it is something?

• 43:30Speaker 02

  I feel like it's the same, like, like athletes don't go onto a court and be like, we're going to lose. Like we're probably, we might lose. Do you know what I mean? Like that would be insane. Like they wouldn't be like, well, we might lose and that's okay. Of course it's okay. Like duh. Like it's gonna, there's a chance of it happening, but they're never saying that to themselves. They're saying, we're going to fucking win. We're going to beat them. That needs to be the energy.

• 43:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm obsessed with this. If you have friends, you can find a partner. I haven't really heard that.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 43:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  And there is proof of concept here.

• 43:57Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 43:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  People have chosen to be around you. They're, they're not forced to, they're not your family. People who don't have to be around you have chosen to. You are likable enough. You have people in your life who love you. You can find someone of whatever gender you prefer that will feel the same way.

• 44:12Speaker 02

  Literally.

• 44:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  Or think of like the worst people you know that are in relationships and those people found somebody.

• 44:17Speaker 02

  I'm sorry. There are serial killers in jail that have women calling them and they're getting married in jail.

• 44:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Casey Anthony get married?

• 44:24Speaker 02

  So many people.

• 44:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then she went to the stars.

• 44:26Speaker 02

  No.

• 44:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  We made that up. That's not true.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  So many people get married in jails. So many, like, I think it's a mindset and it's about, it's a perspective shift. It is glass half full. It is.

• 44:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 44:38Speaker 02

  And I'm not negating that dating and stuff. I was in the trenches too, but I think it's like, you can't control a lot. You can't control the pool. You can't control the experience, right? But what you can control is the way you talk about it, how you show up and also stepping outside your comfort zone and expanding your pool. I think that's the thing that I realized that I wasn't doing when I was single. I wasn't actually expanding the pool of people that I was going on dates with.

• 44:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  You said you were only kind of going after like a certain kind of person and you were just like miserable every time. What kind of person was it?

• 45:05Speaker 02

  Someone older, like a lot older, because I was always told you're too intimidating. Like you're going to intimidate a guy, which is like, you'd never say that to a man. You know what I mean?

• 45:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right. Yeah.

• 45:14Speaker 02

  Like, sorry that my success is intimidating. Like, sorry you're insecure.

• 45:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  So true.

• 45:19Speaker 02

  But anyway, as a result, never like set my hinge to younger, never set my hinge to my age. And then my boyfriend ended up being six years younger than me. So I thought about, wow, so many men that I completely Xed out because I was making a really mass generalization in the judgment.

• 45:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  A hundred percent.

• 45:34Speaker 02

  Okay. So first P.

• 45:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Back to the first date.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  Positivity?

• 45:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  No.

• 45:37Speaker 02

  No.

• 45:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  The P is kind of, what happens? The date has three outcomes.

• 45:41Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 45:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, got it.

• 45:43Speaker 02

  But I love that.

• 45:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Fourth P.

• 45:46Speaker 02

  Fourth P is penis, I thought. So good.

• 45:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 45:48Speaker 02

  In jail. No. The three P theory is this, I believe there's no such thing as a shitty date, apart from the obvious, in the sense of like, I think a lot of the things that hold women back from dating is just being like, they're like, oh, I might go on a shitty date. Like it might be awful. Like he might, and then I just wasted two hours and I could have been at home scrolling TikTok like with a face mask. But I'm like, if you see it differently, again, perspective shift where it's like every day to see their potential, potential for another date, not potential for your husband. Practice. Okay. You get on the date and you're like, oh yeah, there's no potential here, but it's good. Your practice.

• 46:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Practice. I love that.

• 46:18Speaker 02

  It's low stakes because you don't care about the outcome. So suddenly you're like telling that joke that you didn't know would land. Like you're just in your vibe, you know? And then you can apply that energy to the next date.

• 46:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, I love this so much.

• 46:29Speaker 02

  Or then plot where it's like a fucking disaster and then you can have, tell it on your podcast or your memoir or your therapist.

• 46:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  Or your TikTok. Yeah.

• 46:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  I really love this. And I'm just thinking about the quote, like we're talking about practice, but it really is so true. Like that moment where you're like, this is not my guy. Let me tell that story. Let me tell that joke. Let me talk about my interests some more. I used to joke that like, when people would ask you on a date, like what kind of music do you like? What kind of hobbies? I would just blackout.

• 46:52Speaker 02

  Me too.

• 46:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know. I have all these things. They just don't come to me in the moment. Like just practice with the guy you really don't think you're ever going to see again.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  Run your set.

• 46:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  Run your set. It's an open mic, you guys.

• 47:02Speaker 02

  Literally.

• 47:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then, okay, but the date goes great. And then you don't hear, how do you not spiral? Like what is the self-talk there?

• 47:10Speaker 02

  I felt like what worked for me was to constantly be dating multiple people at once. And that meant, yeah, sometimes going on dates with people where you're, you see their photos and you're like, are you even hot? Like, is this going to be a vibe? Yeah. Because y'all know that straight men are like terrible at taking photos, like beyond.

• 47:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 47:26Speaker 02

  And we would shit on them if they were really.

• 47:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  If they were good at it, it was.

• 47:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Also be an act.

• 47:29Speaker 02

  That's what I'm saying. That's the one place, baby, I feel bad for about it. The one place.

• 47:33Rayna Greenberg?

  Sure.

• 47:34Speaker 02

  So it's like, I think it's like, be a little less judgmental, be more open minded, but I think it's energetically, it's just good to kind of be juggling a couple of different guys. Because the problem is when you get fixated on one.

• 47:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 47:45Speaker 02

  You feel like, oh, because you remembered like your middle name that like you must be in love. Where it's better to compare and contrast to actually have a roster. But yeah, after a first date, I wouldn't text them. I would let them text you and that text needs to be planned for the next date. Just make it really easy for yourself.

• 47:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 48:00Speaker 02

  A guy that likes you acts with a sense of urgency. Like he acts like you're about to get like taken from another man. Like you're literally like chilling, you know what I mean? Like they really operate in that way. And I didn't know that until I obviously met my partner. And then I started looking at all my other friends and it was the same kind of energy.

• 48:15Rayna Greenberg?

  Absolutely. You talk, you talk about dating with a scarcity mindset.

• 48:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:18Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, so let's talk about that. So does that, that's where it comes from, right?

• 48:21Speaker 02

  That like All of it.

• 48:22Rayna Greenberg?

  That spiraling.

• 48:23Speaker 02

  No good men left. We're seated to date in like all my friends are getting engaged and married and kids. I think the social media is actually at the root of it. My mom actually told me, and I wrote about this in the book, how like she came to the US 35, 40 years ago and from Argentina. And there was a cover of the New Yorker that was like, there are no men left. Like all the good ones are taken, literally.

• 48:44Rayna Greenberg?

  How long ago?

• 48:44Speaker 02

  It was like, oh, no, no, guys, guys, guys. It was even worse. It was like, the cover said, getting married over 40. It's easier to get killed by a terrorist than married over 40.

• 48:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 48:55Speaker 02

  And they had to retract it later. It was like, that is the most insane fucking thing to say. But anyway, the point is just like, that energy has existed for a while. I think the proliferation of social media has made it worse because you actually feel like you're constantly bombarded into people you don't even know. You're like, who the fuck are you? Pause. There's more time than you think. Like we have long ass lives, we do. Like, think about how much life we have to live still. And I genuinely think that if you want a relationship, you can get one. I don't believe in this, like it might never happen. I don't believe that. I believe in the power of your mind and in putting yourself out there and being a good person. And if you have friends, it's gonna happen for you.

• 49:31Rayna Greenberg?

  I want to talk about a different type of scarcity mindset, which is that like, there is no one left. And you're telling yourself that. And so you stick around with something that is just, I mean, I can't tell you how many people are like girlfriends mine that I love that are so amazing and successful and interesting and don't need to be with somebody that treats them badly and just accept these like breadcrumbs. Cause they're like, it's such a commodity to find a man who makes money, who will plan a date, who I like having sex with.

• 49:54Speaker 02

  But it shouldn't be, like, it's not though. If you, it only is if you think it is.

• 49:57Rayna Greenberg?

  Totally.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. I agree with you. That is a nightmare. I have a couple of friends who I'm like, the guy that they chose, I'm like, holy shit. Like they deserve so much better. I was hoping so much more for them. Unfortunately, I don't know if you guys are, you can't say shit, obviously to your friends.

• 50:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, we do.

• 50:11Speaker 02

  Unless, if they treat them badly, yes.

• 50:13Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, but

• 50:13Speaker 02

  But if they just suck, no. Oh, do you say it?

• 50:15Rayna Greenberg?

  We're not scared to say it, but I think Raina and I know the line and where you tread lightly. And also I try, I guess with my, with Raina, maybe like my best, best friends. Like I try not to offer opinions when I'm not asked. Like you're an adult, you know, you're gonna make your decisions. Like I really am like, if you come to me and you want to hear my thoughts, but otherwise I'm like, I don't think you want to hear this.

• 50:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 50:40Rayna Greenberg?

  So.

• 50:41Speaker 02

  Right.

• 50:41Rayna Greenberg?

  If people ask, I mean, we will

• 50:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you ask.

• 50:43Rayna Greenberg?

  Tell them, but also like, I mean, you kind of say this in the book where you say like, take bits of this information that works for you. If you disagree with it, that's okay too. Like

• 50:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 50:51Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm not here to, I'm very judgmental, we all are, but like, I'm not here to tell you what you should walk away from. So like my standards for what I want are different than your standards. I don't want children and I don't need money from anybody. That is not everybody's case in life. And so like the stuff that applies to me and the things that would be like a hard pass, I'm getting out of here are not other people's. And I don't have to evaluate some people the way that other people do. I mean, I don't want children. I'm not in a rush for anything, so.

• 51:17Speaker 02

  And that's amazing because you're in a place where you're take my time.

• 51:20Rayna Greenberg?

  But like, I understand why people well, around in a situationship because they're like, maybe on the other side of this hump. And I'm like, I don't need to wait around for this. This is bullshit. I, you know, I'm just, I'm not doing it. But then people have this, I don't want to start over. And it's like, yeah, but

• 51:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:35Rayna Greenberg?

  He may never marry you or have kids with you. And so you're just wasting your time. I mean, we've watched women waste decades and then they break up. So there's no guarantees. Like we had a friend recently and I, she had that mindset of like, but I don't want to start over. I want to be pregnant in X amount of years. And it's like, yeah, but it

• 51:55Speaker 02

  But then you're stuck with this guy.

• 51:57Rayna Greenberg?

  But if it's not with him.

• 51:57Speaker 02

  Kids.

• 51:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. There was that too, but like, there's no guarantees that

• 52:01Speaker 02

  And then you're really stuck. Like my parents got divorced when I was two and they're still, they're still in a group chat. Like, and they get along well, but it's like, you never get to like

• 52:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 52:09Speaker 02

  That's a, that's a lifer. That's like

• 52:12Rayna Greenberg?

  That is true.

• 52:12Speaker 02

  Depending on your situation. I, yeah.

• 52:14Rayna Greenberg?

  Like I had to say to a girlfriend the other day, like, I promise you, the person you're supposed to be with is not going to treat you like this. I promise you, the love of your life is going to return a text message to you.

• 52:22Speaker 02

  The love of your life would want to date you.

• 52:23Rayna Greenberg?

  I love this quote from you.

• 52:24Speaker 02

  It's that literally that simple.

• 52:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Life would want to date you.

• 52:27Speaker 02

  Right, that's it.

• 52:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Hundred percent.

• 52:28Speaker 02

  That's it. It's like that simple.

• 52:30Rayna Greenberg?

  I have a friend, she's dating this guy. She's like, he's so great. We're together, he's so wonderful. And but then I want to hear from him for 48 hours. And I'm like, the person that you're supposed to be with will text you within 48 hours, I promise.

• 52:39Speaker 02

  And to circle back to like, life being hard and you want your relationship to be that safe place. If at the beginning, they're making it this difficult, where you're on eggshells, you're anxious. Imagine what's going to happen when a parent gets sick or like you lose your job. Are you going to be afraid that they're not going to respond for four days?

• 52:55Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh my gosh, right.

• 52:56Speaker 02

  Next. It has to be at the beginning and has to be, so everyone says the honeymoon visit, it has to be like easy, flowy, safe, peaceful. Bare minimum.

• 53:05Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, so what is your fuck no funeral? How do we, and I'm not talking about people's marriages, obviously, those are different or like five year long relationships.

• 53:11Speaker 02

  I think people should have a funeral for a marriage. That'd be so fun.

• 53:14Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, how do we, how do we how do we say like

• 53:17Speaker 02

  Like divorce party funeral?

• 53:19Rayna Greenberg?

  I have a friend that had a divorce party. Um, how do we say like, I'm done here and actually stick to it? I think that is a lot of people's problem. It's been my problem too. It's been lots of people's problem.

• 53:27Speaker 02

  I feel like for sure, obviously we cling to the hope, the what if? And I think that that's why some of them situationships hurt more than relationships. Because like, there's that potential of like, but if he just, it was just so close, you know? And that's why it sucks, but like ultimately it's a sign that it just wasn't meant to be. I feel like in this book, it was really important for me to give actionable things you could do versus just be like, it'll happen, you least expect it. Like what could you do to meet someone that's out of your comfort zone? It's the last time you like got matcha at a place you'd never been to before or work at class? Or did you text a girl from college five years ago that like, you know, meet up with her, like expand your circle, right? That's something that you could do for yourself. For the situationships, it's so easy to tell someone like, just end it. I was like, that's not enough. Like, let's make it a motherfucking cathartic experience where we get our friends to come and they hold us accountable.

• 54:12Speaker 02

  So it's like, get dressed up, wear black, get a photo of him, light it on fucking fire. And everyone can do it. Everyone, it could be like a boss that they hate or like a project or a job that whatever. It's just like, everyone's just like getting rid of, can you imagine like burning a photo of your boss? But just scared, getting ready.

• 54:27Rayna Greenberg?

  I just light a photo of Ashley on fire.

• 54:29Speaker 02

  Just getting rid of the bad juju. I remember when I got ghosted by a guy, I couldn't believe, the act of being ghosted is so rude. I can't even handle it.

• 54:37Rayna Greenberg?

  These are the worst people. Yeah, I, I mean, I had to have a conversation with somebody recently who is just the most wonderful person. I just didn't see it going forward, just personality mismatch. And I did not want to have that conversation. I wrote the script down of what I was going to say to him over and over. And I ran the lines and I was like panicked and I was like, maybe I could just stay with him. And then I had this epiphany of like, all the people that never had that conversation with me, all the people that made me feel fucking crazy as they slowly backed away from me and then ghosted me anyways. And I thought like, I will be the bad guy in this moment, but he will remember that somebody respected him and had the conversation with him. But I said to Raina, like I was on the journey with her. She was upset for days before. She had anxiety. She was dreading this.

• 55:21Rayna Greenberg?

  It sucks to hurt someone's feelings. Like she cried the whole next day. Like she had a hard time doing this and that's why people don't do it. That's why mostly men

• 55:32Speaker 02

  Fucking who?

• 55:33Rayna Greenberg?

  No, no, no.

• 55:34Speaker 02

  Grow a parrot.

• 55:35Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm not saying you guys. My point is like, that's why they don't do it because it's hard.

• 55:38Speaker 02

  Oh my God, so sorry. It's like a five second text.

• 55:40Rayna Greenberg?

  And that's where you know someone is just like a fucking coward.

• 55:44Speaker 02

  It's crazy.

• 55:45Rayna Greenberg?

  But for her to go through that and be like, yeah, it is tough. But you owe this to somebody.

• 55:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:50Rayna Greenberg?

  And the alternative of just ghosting is so fucking cowardly and gross. And you were dodged such a bullet. Like, I know it hurts, but it's like, there's no one worse than the person that ghosts. And you're so lucky that they did it and you found out who they were before you went further down that road.

• 56:04Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. I, I, this is a chapter in my book that says like, the ghost tech, anti ghost text you need to send. Like, I think that if you don't want to be ghosted, you have to do the same thing and not ghost. And just be honest. It feels very upsetting and exactly, you don't want to hurt someone's feelings. But I also think like, if you look at it this way of like, you letting them go means that they can be free of you and then find the actual person that fucks with them. That is a blessing. It's always the ones where you're getting bread crumbed and you're like, that's the worst is like bread coming someone or like not being honest about how you feel or ghosting them.

• 56:34Rayna Greenberg?

  Right.

• 56:34Speaker 02

  But anyway, I got ghosted by this guy. I couldn't believe it. I just thought it was so crazy. I know people talk about ghosting, but like, getting ghosted is just, you lose your agency. You, you feel like you're not a person, you feel like you don't respect, you don't think I exist.

• 56:46Rayna Greenberg?

  Yep.

• 56:47Speaker 02

  I remember I went to my friends, we all were black. That's when we were like, RIP, RIP to the guy's name. And like, it was such a great experience. I, we did a TikTok, like I was like, fuck you. It was just great. And I was like, that's what the fuck no funeral is. Couple of months later, I'm walking down the West Village, I had my glasses on and out of the corner of my eye, see this motherfucker.

• 57:04Rayna Greenberg?

  He rose from the dead.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  And he flees at me. And I literally look and I keep walking and I'm like, I'm sorry, you're a ghost, honey.

• 57:12Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 57:13Speaker 02

  I can't see you. And I was like, the motherfucking audacity.

• 57:17Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. No, literally the, when they

• 57:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Text you and they will. Six weeks later, two months later, some fucking bullshit. And you're staring there like, how dare you?

• 57:27Speaker 02

  No, I think that women are like, oh, see, I knew he would come back. He realized like how much he likes me. You're like, that's the problem. I, you know, not with him, but I've done that. Like, I think the realization is you have to be like, no, you have to set the boundary. If you want the relationship of your dreams, when you have shitty behavior around you or like a guy's giving you shitty behavior, you have to be the one to walk away. It's so hard to do that, though.

• 57:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. Oh, it's so hard.

• 57:48Speaker 02

  It's like impossible. But by the way, the two times I've done it, the two times I wasn't dumped and I walked away first, I've never felt more empowered in my life. I was like, it feels so good to be like, no, your attention doesn't matter. This doesn't work for me.

• 58:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. And it empowers you. It's growth. It's all the things, confidence. I have to tell you, Serena, I had a guy ghost me. We slept together. We had a great first day.

• 58:09Speaker 02

  I was hoping that you'd bring this up.

• 58:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. And I didn't talk about it for years because I was like, I didn't want him to hear it. He'll never hear this. This has been years. So it was brutal and it was like kind of on the tail end of COVID, like just the time was a weird time in the world and I get ghosted by this guy. And that was that. I was really upset. I feel like it just makes you feel like your self-worth, all the things. And what, a year later, he comes up to me in a bar in Miami.

• 58:35Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 58:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  That was just totally random. And he comes up and he's walking towards me and I clock it. I'm like, oh my God, that's that guy. And he comes up and he wants to be like, hey, remember me? And he was like, we went on that date and this and that. And I was like, I'm so sorry. I don't remember it. And I just, we did this standoff and he starts to spiral and realizing he's that unmemorable and he, because we slept together. And he starts to try to be like, but remember we did this? I was like, I'm so sorry. I just, I don't remember you. And I turned back to my friends. And I have never felt more like wet for myself in that moment.

• 59:07Speaker 02

  Like watching her do it. I was like, I can't believe what I'm witnessing right now.

• 59:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  Do you know?

• 59:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I came back over. It was, Melanie was there and Maura.

• 59:15Speaker 02

  That is the best thing I've ever heard of Maura. How amazing is that?

• 59:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  It felt so good. Thank you. And he just had to like slump away, like I'm that bad in bed and that unmemorable. And I've never, and I didn't want to share it for a while because I want him to still think, you know, but he's not listening now. So, yeah.

• 59:30Speaker 02

  Proud of you. That's fucking amazing. It just, it feels so destabilizing when somebody does that. And baby, one year ago, a really close friend of ours did that to me. Like we had a thing and then he kind of ghosted me and it was so destabilizing because I was sitting there like, is this really happening right now? I know. I told Ashley, like, it took me weeks to like realize what had happened. Like, oh, our like good friend did this to me. That's crazy.

• 59:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Somebody you have a friendship with.

• 59:53Speaker 02

  No, that's. And it's just, it is like, when somebody does it to you, so destabilizing. And when that person like tried to get back in my life and talk to me, it's like, how dare you? How dare you? You could have done something nice and you didn't. You chose not to. And I think normalize the acting like you never met them or crossing the street. You don't have to act unbothered, by the way. You can act bothered.

• 1:00:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  For sure. But also just remember, like, if you want to get married one day, he's never, it's never going to be the guy that was like, I ghosted you, but then two months later, I came back and he took. Did you read, um, Ghosts by Dolly Alderton?

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  Not yet.

• 1:00:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, so she's like one of our favorite authors besides you. And this book is just the most realistic depiction of ghosting. Anyway. Okay. Can we move into your current relationship?

• 1:00:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Your, your, your relationship. So there's a few things I want to touch on. One thing we've talked about you behind your back on our podcast is you've talked about when you guys travel together and like getting content and that you've like set these boundaries. So we get asked this too, even our listeners, like, how do I get my man to take pictures of me? And like, oh, you travel together. You go to these beautiful places. You guys have a beautiful life. And was there a point where the content and the needing to document things were kind of taking a toll on your relationship?

• 1:01:01Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah. I actually wrote about this in the book and we actually scrapped it because I was told like it wasn't relatable enough for like non-content creators. And I was like, are you sure? Because like in this era, like every girl wants a fucking photo of them. Whatever. I let it go.

• 1:01:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  But even if it's not relatable, it's fascinating. I want to talk about it.

• 1:01:18Speaker 02

  I'm glad that you brought it up.

• 1:01:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:19Speaker 02

  Yes. It was absolutely a point of contention. I felt like whenever I would go on vacation, I would plan the whole week, all my outfits. My boyfriend, meanwhile, would like take 10 minutes to pack the day before. I'm fuming. Like, you know, like, we take it seriously, whatever. I'm also a creator. So there's that expectation, which is difficult because it's vacation. So it's kind of.

• 1:01:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, I want to see what you're wearing. I always want to see what you're wearing.

• 1:01:41Speaker 02

  Thank you, my love. So then it would be contentious because I would feel guilt about, I felt like the experience for him was really not fun. And he did feel like it was not fun because he felt my anxiety. And he felt like it never ended. And the second it doesn't feel fun, you don't want to do it. It feels like work and then you're on vacation and he's like, this is my vacation too. So what we did was after, and this like goes back to Gloves Off and, and the chapter in my book about fighting. It's like, when you and your partner or friend or whoever, it fights about the same thing and it just keeps coming up again and again. That's when you both have to be like, okay, we're a team. Let's, what is the solve here? Because it keeps recurring, which was like, he would take pictures of me. He looked miserable. It would make me miserable. I'd be miserable.

• 1:02:21Speaker 02

  And then it was just a miserable thing and I would hit the photo. So we rebranded it as Fun 15, where for 15 minutes, we would be having the best time. He would be Mario Testino, Annie Leibowitz, taking the shots of me. I'd be like in my tie. Oh, I guess she's canceled now, but whatever. I would just be like modeling, like, you know, my whatever. And, and then after those 15 minutes, it's done. And, and no matter if we got the shot or not, we would always get the shot. But I felt like that was such a great way of like, working through that. But I would say to him, like, this is my career. It is my career. Like this is something that I take seriously and I unfortunately don't have a tripod. I do know other women though, that do bring a tripod and like they rip on their own. I prefer a hand.

• 1:03:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? But I do know women that do that to not bother. And I've considered it and maybe I will, but I think that his reaction was like, of course I want to support you. I just don't want it like, I don't want it to feel like a drag. Like that is actually so fair.

• 1:03:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think this is applicable to anybody because I think that once you're in a relationship with somebody, there's just going to be things that come up over and over again that you're like, I do have to do this. So let's like find a compromise here. I know it's going to annoy you.

• 1:03:22Speaker 02

  But let's not. Like, let's not be annoyed because then the annoying thing made it annoying. Like, let's just both like have a positive experience here.

• 1:03:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. And then you, you go to dinner and things are weird, you know, like you just had this shitty moment with the photos and like I can feel that in my bones. And so I love the solve there.

• 1:03:37Speaker 02

  Good. Fun 15. Try it.

• 1:03:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Love it. And the pictures look great.

• 1:03:40Speaker 02

  Thank you. I've trained him well.

• 1:03:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. What's my next question? Okay. So one thing I like that you talked about is that you guys have really built your own families. Like you don't have big families. I'm not making this up, but I feel like I've seen you post kind of like around the holidays, you see people with these like big, happy families. And you guys are both only children. And so I love what you've done with your moms. And I just wanted to kind of hear you talk about how you made the holidays and all these times work for you.

• 1:04:03Speaker 02

  It's funny because you asked me before, you're like, when it's the holidays, like, do you feel, when people ask you, you get married? And I was just like, no, it's funny because it's like, all my family's all in Argentina through my mom's side and Canada through my dad's side. Felix's family is all in France. So we literally like didn't have family here and we're only children. And our parents are divorced. So that definitely brings us together. But I think that like, yeah, when you go on Instagram, you see all these like amazing Christmas and Hanukkah photos and it's a huge family. It was hard. And I think like, growing up, I always felt that way. But the beautiful thing about growing up is that you get to make your own family. And I felt like the best thing was like, we combined forces. So it's me and my mom and then Felix and his mom. And we're going to Argentina for Thanksgiving this year to visit my family, get to bring them for the first time.

• 1:04:42Speaker 02

  But it's just like, you know, it, grass is always greener, but also like, I feel very lucky that the four of us can hang out as a unit.

• 1:04:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. Yeah. It's really special. And there are people with these giant fucking families that wish they had, if you had. And they are dreading the holidays and there's fights and drama and all the things. And they were like, what I would fucking give to have it be me and my man and our moms.

• 1:05:05Speaker 02

  I send the holidays to Ashley's family. And so I dread finding somebody who has a big family and I have to like tell them, like, I can't come. Because I don't actually.

• 1:05:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, if you found, yeah, exactly. They'd have to come too. Okay. My last question is, so Felix is younger. I'm married to a younger man too.

• 1:05:20Speaker 02

  How much younger?

• 1:05:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Seven years or eight years, depending on.

• 1:05:23Speaker 02

  It's eight. Okay.

• 1:05:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think that the bigger age difference is better. You think that's weird. I think it's better. You sound like a baddie. I'd say 10.

• 1:05:29Speaker 02

  In one month. Well, you say 20 apparently.

• 1:05:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, right. It's 20.

• 1:05:33Speaker 02

  Well, I actually found out it was 20 years. I know. That's why I said that.

• 1:05:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's eight years right now and a month it'll be seven years.

• 1:05:39Speaker 02

  He'll bring up with me like in a TikTok or something.

• 1:05:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Turns 36. Um, do you feel his age? Like, I don't know how it was at the beginning or have you had moments where you're like, oh, right? You know, like, does it ever kind of come up? Because I obviously use this really mature person that's really confident and secure and he takes care of you and all these things. But are you ever like, oh, right?

• 1:05:59Speaker 02

  He's six years younger than me. So I think that the biggest feeling of the age was when, you know, he was 23, he was living at home. He didn't know what he wanted to do with his career yet. And the reason I'm bringing this up is because I feel like a lot of women are like, I need a man that makes X amount of money and has this job and whatever. And I think it's more about like the values underneath that where it's like, yeah, if a guy is just smoking on his couch and being like, I'm going to be a CEO one day. Okay. That's not, that's potential. That's like, what are his actions showing you? But I saw when Felix was 23, that he was so ambitious and he worked for himself and he had all these big goals for himself. And he was actively, he wasn't sitting at home. Like he was taking it seriously. So that meant like, I felt the age in that, like, I wanted to go to like,

• 1:06:37Speaker 02

  a really nice hotel in Lake Como. And he was like, I would love to do that, but I can't pay for that. Like I literally can't yet. And so those were the moments that came up, but we worked around it. And so I would be there, be like, okay, let's try somewhere else. Or I'd be like, I'll contribute more to this and you can contribute what you can because I want to go and I want to get the pics, which you will be taking. Anyway. But I think the sexiest thing, and I talk about this, the book about money, I think the sexiest thing was him always being able to be like, hey, I can't afford that right now. Instead of breaking up with me because he's like, I can't keep up with her or overcompensating, going into debt, not being able to keep up. He was always so honest. And that may be like, okay, like that's all good. One day you will. And now seeing him in his career and like, having it blossom is so wonderful to see.

• 1:07:19Speaker 02

  It's like, I believed in you before you did, honey. But it's like, that is to me was the biggest sign of the age difference. Not anything else really. I mean, like he thinks farting is hilarious, but I don't even think that that's like a him thing. I think it's like a man thing.

• 1:07:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's a man thing. I'm curious. Okay. I did just, you did, like, you did talk about farting on another.

• 1:07:37Speaker 02

  Farting is funny.

• 1:07:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Do you fart in front of him?

• 1:07:39Speaker 02

  I just don't really fart that much, you know?

• 1:07:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean, my whole stance on it is like, if I fart, it's, Shonk loses it. He thinks it's the funniest thing in the world.

• 1:07:46Speaker 02

  He texts Serena. He's like.

• 1:07:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  I, I don't fart in front of Serena. Like, I don't.

• 1:07:50Speaker 02

  Right. I'm not going to do that in front of anybody.

• 1:07:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  I don't think where I was gassy.

• 1:07:53Speaker 02

  I don't judge people.

• 1:07:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  You know what Felix says? Ew, ew, you farted. And I'm literally like, I'm literally like, I can't. I'm like, but he's obviously kidding. But like, fuck you. But then when he farts, he's crying, laughing and thinks it's the funniest thing ever. I'm like, fuck you. It's fine. I need to stop talking about farting on podcasts. People are going to think I'm like the farting queen.

• 1:08:10Speaker 02

  Queen of farting.

• 1:08:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  Serena fucking Kerrigan.

• 1:08:12Speaker 02

  She's the queen of farting.

• 1:08:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Serena farting Kerrigan.

• 1:08:15Speaker 02

  Saved you a seat.

• 1:08:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Table.

• 1:08:16Speaker 02

  Serena farting Kerrigan.

• 1:08:20Speaker 02

  We're done. We're so done.

• 1:08:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's in the title. So last time you came on the show was about a year and a half ago, maybe two years ago, and you were newer into the relationship. And when you started this brand, you were like the single girly.

• 1:08:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Now you're like into a serious relationship, probably the person you'll spend the rest of your life with, hopefully. How do you feel like that's changed you and the dating advice you give? Like, do you look at you from a couple of years ago and think that was not great advice? Other than, obviously, we can only give a dating advice for our own lens. So you were single then, now you're in a serious relationship. Like, do you feel like being in this long-term relationship has like evolved the dating advice?

• 1:08:53Speaker 02

  The advice I would give is like, date older. I disagree with that so much now. I think even like the finance stuff and like, I literally was like, I like, I'm so successful. Like, I need a man who can like, like, I really had this idea, but it's about the values underneath that.

• 1:09:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yep.

• 1:09:06Speaker 02

  It's about like giving time for someone to become who they want to become too. No, I think my dating advice have always been really spot on.

• 1:09:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:13Speaker 02

  It was just about me taking it myself.

• 1:09:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  Mm hmm. Was there stuff that was like a red flag before and now you're like, there's things that you can learn to live with with people and how do I decipher what those things are?

• 1:09:22Speaker 02

  I mean, oh, yes. I'm sorry. I used to be like, I'm never dating a sober person.

• 1:09:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:09:27Speaker 02

  Like, I was like, they don't have fun. Crazy of me to say. I take it back. I was 22 and borderline alcoholic.

• 1:09:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Sure.

• 1:09:35Speaker 02

  But yeah, and then Felix doesn't drink.

• 1:09:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  He's sober?

• 1:09:38Speaker 02

  I mean.

• 1:09:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Not a big drinker.

• 1:09:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, we do the weed and the shrooms.

• 1:09:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:09:42Speaker 02

  Okay. Doesn't drink, like, hasn't had a sip of alcohol in like two years.

• 1:09:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:09:45Speaker 02

  And at first I was like, like, not weird about it, but I was like, oh, it's temporary. Or like, I don't know, like, you know, he would drink out like my birthday or Halloween or he just doesn't want to. And I realized that, like, and then I got afraid that people would think that he's not fun or we're not fun or no one fucking cares. And also, he showed me that, like, you can have so much fun not drinking. And also that I was really reactive with drinking.

• 1:10:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:06Speaker 02

  And maybe I need, so I've toned down my drinking a lot just because like, I wouldn't have fun. Like, I didn't, I don't need it.

• 1:10:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  Not at all.

• 1:10:12Speaker 02

  But that was like a big one.

• 1:10:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. It sounds like something that I feel like I ran into too. I like the quote that may not look like what you thought it was gonna look like.

• 1:10:20Speaker 02

  It's never gonna be what you thought it was gonna look like.

• 1:10:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  But even though, like, my list that I had made for someone I want to find, my husband actually is like, almost the whole list.

• 1:10:26Speaker 02

  Same.

• 1:10:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  In terms of, I did think I wanted someone older or my age, someone that kind of was in our industry a little bit more and more, this high-power CEO type of person. And that's not who I ended up with. And he's great, he does a great job, you know, he does his thing. But it's just, I was wrong about some of the things that I thought I wanted, but not the core person.

• 1:10:45Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:10:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Of course.

• 1:10:45Speaker 02

  I'd never thought, the irony was with my list that was 69 bullets, I didn't write anything about age. And I did write, doesn't drink on it, which is crazy.

• 1:10:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:53Speaker 02

  Because I didn't, when I wrote it, I was like, doesn't drink, doesn't like, you know, isn't like, because I was thinking of someone who's like drinking a lot. But I think the list is like spooky and it works.

• 1:11:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, it's, it is kind of crazy. Okay, so we have a new segment. You're the first person to do it.

• 1:11:06Speaker 02

  Obviously.

• 1:11:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  So it's perfect for you. This is our dating hack and dating Wack. So first, we want to hear if you have an unconventional dating hack, something that you recommend that you, people may not find on TikTok in other dating content. So something that might be like a little bit out of the box, a little unconventional, that you think works or has worked for you. And the whack is something that you have either experienced in dating or you see out there in the world that is, you just hate, don't do this, it's whack.

• 1:11:36Speaker 02

  My dating hack is that you have to use the vacation mentality. Think about who the fuck you are on vacation. You're a bad bitch. You're saying yes to that guy that just asked you on a date at the bar, the hotel bar. You're, you know, you're at the airport and suddenly this guy, you're eye fucking him and like, he's in 34B. Like, you are just in a different energy. There's no stakes because you're leaving. It's temporary. How can you use that energy and bring it home? Because if you kind of let go of the outcome, not kind of, if you let go of the outcome and treat yourself on vacation that you have a flight to catch in the morning, that is when you show up the most magnetic part of you. And I think that's when you will enjoy dating, the way that you would enjoy a random date with a guy in Spain because you're like, I'm leaving the next morning.

• 1:12:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Totally.

• 1:12:17Speaker 02

  Versus going up to the date and being like, that's my husband.

• 1:12:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  I love that.

• 1:12:20Speaker 02

  That is my dating motherfucking hack.

• 1:12:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:12:22Speaker 02

  I love it.

• 1:12:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Love it. Yeah, something so whack.

• 1:12:25Speaker 02

  I think the, the super fancy restaurant for dinner on the first date is a big red flag.

• 1:12:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:12:33Speaker 02

  It's not like, oh, like, big. If he's taking you to the corner store or like Nobu on the first date.

• 1:12:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 1:12:40Speaker 02

  He doesn't fucking know you. And you know what the issue is? Then suddenly you owe him something. And you, that shouldn't be how it is. You're just getting to know each other. But suddenly this bill is like $600. You're like, fuck, like, should I fuck him? Should I kiss him? Like, I don't, I didn't really like him.

• 1:12:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's just a lot.

• 1:12:53Speaker 02

  It's too much. Two drinks and ditch.

• 1:12:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's a red flag. He's taking me to Nobu on a first date.

• 1:12:58Speaker 02

  He doesn't know you.

• 1:12:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  Stranger? What, why? What is his motivation?

• 1:13:02Speaker 02

  Because unless he has a gift card.

• 1:13:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's not always that.

• 1:13:05Speaker 02

  Are they a food blogger?

• 1:13:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think you're gonna have sex with me.

• 1:13:07Speaker 02

  Like, taking.

• 1:13:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  He's got a Groupon. But it's not necessarily always he wants something in return. It could be just to show off, which you also don't want.

• 1:13:16Speaker 02

  No overcompensations. Like, why do you feel the need to like, big dick me right now?

• 1:13:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Mm hmm. It's just too much pressure for me. I just, let's make it more low stakes. And we can get two drinks and like, I guess if we're about to fall in love, I guess we can order some food.

• 1:13:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:13:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  Also, if you have a reservation at the corner store, I will go.

• 1:13:30Speaker 02

  No, no, no. I will bring you there.

• 1:13:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  I will put this out into the world if you, or Kevin Shermont, if you have a reservation there, take me. But it's too much pressure for me. I just, I don't want to feel like I'm on the hook.

• 1:13:39Speaker 02

  I agree. I once, this guy brought me to a Jerry Seinfeld comedy show for the first date, biggest mistake ever. Like, it was epic to see Jerry, but like, it was just like, I was stuck.

• 1:13:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:49Speaker 02

  And then I felt.

• 1:13:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  A comedy show? Yeah.

• 1:13:50Speaker 02

  Hours.

• 1:13:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  Time? I can't, hours?

• 1:13:53Speaker 02

  It was, exactly. And then afterwards, he was like, do you want to like hang? And I'm like, no, I don't want to ever see you again. But I felt bad because he got the tickets. Never again. Don't do it.

• 1:14:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. I love it. Do you feel like it's a red flag when a guy doesn't have a reservation for that first date?

• 1:14:06Speaker 02

  Da, da, da.

• 1:14:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:08Speaker 02

  A man with a fucking plan. It's a chapter in my book. If he has no plan, there is no man.

• 1:14:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Love it. I was waiting for my reservation on the street at this restaurant in the West Village, packed, people spilling out into the sidewalk. And I see this girl and she was like a fan and she was like, oh, my God. And she was like, I love your podcast. And she's meeting this guy on a first date. And I was like, good luck, girly, you know? And then I see her meet him on the street. I'm like, I love to, I could watch this shit forever. So they meet on the street for the first time. They were just like hinged dates. And they walk in, she, they walk by and I was like, you know, he was really hot. I heard his Australian accent. And then they walk into the restaurant and then they walk right back out. And he had just thought they could walk into this very popular West Village restaurant.

• 1:14:45Speaker 02

  This happened to me. This happened to me a couple of years, last year or two years ago. This guy was, he picked a place in Santa Monica for our second date. He was like, do you like Kobe's, which is a great restaurant that I love.

• 1:14:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hard to get in.

• 1:14:55Speaker 02

  And, yeah, hard to get in. I was like, oh, he's got a res, great. I took an Uber there. We're standing outside Kobe's. He's like, I got you a gift. He hands me a plant.

• 1:15:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's also, no gifts.

• 1:15:05Speaker 02

  No gifts.

• 1:15:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Why am I holding a potted plant?

• 1:15:09Speaker 02

  And then.

• 1:15:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  You want to carry that plant to the proper?

• 1:15:11Speaker 02

  And then we.

• 1:15:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  Another thing.

• 1:15:12Speaker 02

  He goes into the restaurant and he's like, oh, they don't have any tables. And I'm like, you didn't make a reservation here on a Saturday night at this like, really popular restaurant?

• 1:15:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  I would have walked out. Did you walk out? What did you do?

• 1:15:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Take this fucking plant.

• 1:15:23Speaker 02

  I took the plant in an Uber with him to the next location and he proceeded to get, I had to carry the plant. This was plot, Serena. And then we went to the proper hotel and he proceeded to get so drunk and tell me about his divorce and his therapy.

• 1:15:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  For the plot, baby, for the plot.

• 1:15:37Speaker 02

  This is insane, but I will say. Because I felt safe. I wasn't feeling disrespected. I was just like, this is.

• 1:15:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  And you got a plan out of it.

• 1:15:45Speaker 02

  In practice.

• 1:15:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  And remember the plant looked like the plants at the proper, like, you were like, I'm.

• 1:15:48Speaker 02

  I left it on the table.

• 1:15:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  I wonder if she's still there. Okay. Well, congrats on the book.

• 1:15:54Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 1:15:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's phenomenal. It's beautiful. It's all the things. It's 80 incredible chapters. And we're just so proud. We didn't really.

• 1:16:02Speaker 02

  Love you guys so much.

• 1:16:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. And also, you, we didn't mention this, but you have a phenomenal card game. You have three iterations of it?

• 1:16:07Speaker 02

  Four.

• 1:16:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Four now.

• 1:16:08Speaker 02

  If you want to get fucked.

• 1:16:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  So check that out too, because it's so fun. So tell everybody where they can find.

• 1:16:12Speaker 02

  We need to do a, like a bundle.

• 1:16:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:15Speaker 02

  The blowjob job.

• 1:16:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Do it.

• 1:16:16Speaker 02

  The card game.

• 1:16:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, let's do it.

• 1:16:17Speaker 02

  We should do it. We should do it.

• 1:16:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:19Speaker 02

  Tell everybody where they can find everything.

• 1:16:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Should I say it to this camera?

• 1:16:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Break the fourth wall.

• 1:16:23Speaker 02

  My name's Serena Kerrigan. You can find me on Serena Kerrigan. My book is called Let's Fucking Date, where all books are sold. I promise you, this will give you a hug and a slap in the face and will make you feel really good about yourself. That's the point of this book. So.

• 1:16:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Thank you guys so much for having me.

• 1:16:36Speaker 02

  Follow Serena.

• 1:16:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  And you know where to find us, girlsgottaeat.com, Girls Gotta Eat Podcast, Instagram and TikTok. I am Ash Hess on Instagram and TikTok. Raina is Rayna Greenberg and RainaGreenberg.com for her fall tour tickets. You can watch full video on Spotify and YouTube. Share this episode with a friend. Again, get Serena's book and we will see you Thursday.

• 1:16:52Speaker 02

  Happy week, guys.

• 1:16:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Bye.