Finding Aubrey: Langtang National Park

In April of 2010, a young woman from Colorado was living her dream in Asia. At the tail end of her five month solo journey to the continent, Aubrey Sacco elected to embark on a week long trek within Langtang National Park, a place known for its welcoming teahouses, ancient monasteries and incredible scenery. When she vanished, the longest running search for a missing trekker in Nepal’s history began. Listen to Blink ! For a full list of our sources, visit npadpodcast.com/episodesFor the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page! Thank you to this week’s partners! IQBAR: Text PARK to 64000 to get 20% off all IQBAR products and free shipping. AG1: AG1 is offering new subscribers a FREE $76 gift when you sign up. You’ll get a Welcome Kit, a bottle of D3K2 AND 5 free travel packs in your first box. So make sure to check out DrinkAG1.com/npad. Naturesage: Use our link and code NPAD for 40% off your order. Hello Fresh: Use our link to get up to 10 FREE meals and a free high protein item for life. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:57Speaker 02

  What if everyone believed you were gone? Brain-dead. But you were still alive, and you had to find a way to let anyone know you were still there. Blank is the haunting true story of Jake Handel, a man who defied the impossible. Jake Handel was given six months to live, his brain ravaged by a rare terminal disease. As his body failed, he slipped into a pseudo-coma, laying motionless and helpless, while doctors declared him past the point of return and loved ones visited less and less. But Jake wasn't gone. He was listening, and what he overheard would change everything. A chilling confession that hinted

• 1:37Speaker 02

  at a betrayal far more sinister than he ever imagined. Blank: Jake Handel's Story documents one man's journey of isolation, resilience, and the darkest corners of human relationships. Jake's story involves heroin, secrets, and more than one murder attempt. And now, after years of silence, Jake is finally piecing together the events that brought him to the brink of death. Blank: The Untold True Crime Story of Survival, Betrayal, and a Mystery That Leaves No One Innocent. Coming February 2, wherever you listen to podcasts.

• 2:17Danielle LaRock?

  Have fun and be safe. Those five words conclude nearly all conversations and letters I have had with my mother. For all of my adult life and even prior, she, as with most parents, walked the fine line of holding on and letting go. It's a dance, and one that most don't understand until they become parents or guardians themselves. There comes a time when babies become toddlers, toddlers become elementary schoolers, and before you know it, they're anxious to leave your nest behind in search of building their own. Each of these transitions is scary because parents have been through them. They are painfully aware of everything that could go wrong, but are also cognizant of the importance of releasing control.

• 3:01Danielle LaRock?

  Freedom is valued amongst everyone, but especially cherished as a young adult. The ability to do what you please, when you please, to discover who you are outside of the confines of your childhood home, surroundings, and social circles, that first taste of tapping into your true self, there's not much else like it, especially when you get to do so with the support of your family. Whether that taste is leaving the state, traveling the world, pursuing an unconventional career path, marrying outside of family expectations, or not marrying at all, and no matter when that happens, age 18, 23, 36, 42, the fact remains that as a parent, you will always have a child.

• 3:44Danielle LaRock?

  This dynamic knows not time, bounds, or borders, and even if it goes dormant, the version of the fiercely protective parent lies passive in many, yet eager to spring into action in a moment's notice. They say that the devil works hard, but parents with missing kids works harder. Welcome to National Park After Dark.

• 4:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hi everyone, welcome back to another episode. It sounds like this one is gonna be a heavy one.

• 4:34Danielle LaRock?

  It is, yeah. And we aren't talking about children in the traditional sense. We are talking about somebody's child, but she is an adult when this takes place. And it is one of the most recent cases I have ever covered. So I'm a little anxious about it, if I'm being honest, but I'm really excited because this was a story that was recommended quite a while ago. And I wrote down her name this time, Nina. So, thank you Nina for recommending this story. So, I did want to make a mention before we get going with things, that this story does contain some themes of violence, both physically and sexually against women. So, take care while listening. If you're not in a space to listen right now, then please don't. But

• 5:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  Thank you for the warning.

• 5:19Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. Yeah, of course. We're kind of matching today. This is my favorite shirt.

• 5:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's hard to see, but mine's bluish. Yours is black.

• 5:29Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, definitely. I don't wear blue.

• 5:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  Mine's dark blue.

• 5:35Danielle LaRock?

  Well, it looks like we're matching on camera, and I know you love that.

• 5:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  I would do that on purpose, for sure. I would love to match every time we record an episode, actually.

• 5:44Danielle LaRock?

  Well, I wouldn't.

• 5:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  One day.

• 5:50Danielle LaRock?

  It's not hard to match me, because I own like, three colors. So, the odds are pretty high.

• 5:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm gonna wear a green, or a black shirt, or a mustard yellow one.

• 5:59Danielle LaRock?

  Yep, and your odds are high.

• 6:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Next time.

• 6:02Danielle LaRock?

  Well, so, everybody, thank you for tuning in. This is the first episode of February. I love February. It's kind of like, the end of The worst part of winter. You know what I mean? It's like the, the spring is coming. It's just around the corner.

• 6:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know.

• 6:20Danielle LaRock?

  In Vermont, maybe not for me.

• 6:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 6:22Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, anyway, let's get into the story. So this is going to be the story about the disappearance of Aubrey Sacco.

• 6:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  I've heard of this story. I actually remember when this happened. I remember seeing the news articles and a lot of stuff that happened. What year was this?

• 6:39Danielle LaRock?

  2010.

• 6:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay, I remember reading this article, but it's been a while and I remember when it happened. Cause I, I guess I was in college. So it's, and she was college age, right? You said that earlier, yeah. So I remember, I remember the story vaguely. I don't remember all the details, but I am, I'm happy you're doing it because I believe she's still missing, correct?

• 7:00Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. Yeah, that's a big part of this story as well. So let's begin.

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• 7:40Danielle LaRock?

  Connie Sacco kept a map of her daughter Aubrey's adventures. Hanging on the wall of her childhood home in Greeley, Colorado, Aubrey's mother dotted the paper with pushpins and linked them together with red thread, marking the path her adventurous 23-year-old had taken over the previous five months. It was April of 2010 and ever since she and her husband Paul waved goodbye to Aubrey at the Denver International Airport months earlier, she had marked the map with dozens of pins, connecting them with thread each time she checked in with her daughter and got updates on her travels. Like so many young women, Aubrey wanted to see the world beyond where she called home. And while Colorado is no place to scoff at with its rugged beauty of the Rockies and endless opportunities for exploration, there was much of the world to see.

• 8:26Danielle LaRock?

  After completing her graduate program at the University of Colorado Boulder with a double major in psychology and art therapy in 2009, what began as a two-week trip to Asia, Blossomed into an epic five-month extended exploration of the southeastern portion of the continent, which I think we can all relate to. It's like, okay, we're, we're gonna go somewhere and I actually really love it here and I'm gonna extend this.

• 8:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yep.

• 8:50Danielle LaRock?

  Which is exactly what happened to me in Colorado. I was like, I'm gonna just go for a three-month internship. I'm packing my two-door Jeep Wrangler with two suitcases and I'll be back in three months and yeah, soon meaning three years. Aubrey spent her college years like many of us did, balancing studies and extracurriculars while enjoying herself and enjoy herself she did. Her nickname was Glitter and it was bestowed on her due to her habit of carrying around a physical bottle of glitter and sprinkling it on people and throughout different places that she's been to and people that she met just to remind them to live life to the fullest and to enjoy life.

• 9:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  That is like, feels like the brightest spirit, just like such a good human already.

• 9:35Danielle LaRock?

  Yes. Yeah. And she didn't just talk the talk, she walked the walk. For her, living life to the fullest included travel, which she did when she was able to, including solo trips to Panama, Japan, Costa Rica, and Greece prior to her 2010 journey that we are going to focus on today for the story. Described by those closest to her, Aubrey is a vibrant artist. Proficient in guitar, violin and piano, photography and painting, sewing and cooking, she just exudes creativity. Take one look at any of her photos and you can tell, she just loves a good time. Her brown hair streaked pink and her brown eyes shine and sparkle through the film. And despite being barely over five feet tall and 125 pounds, she just seemed

• 10:18Danielle LaRock?

  larger than life. And if you Google any pictures of her right now, you're gonna see, it even translates into her clothing. She's always wearing, like, she would never be caught in a black shirt, like me. She was just in greens and pinks and purples and oranges and yellows, just she really was expressive. And it seems like she was just expressing outwardly what she felt on the inside, which is just happy and excited and stoked on life.

• 10:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  A true light in this world.

• 10:47Danielle LaRock?

  Taking a step back from the map and studying its lines, Connie took a moment to envision all of the life that Aubrey was off living. Fascinated with eastern culture and philosophy, Aubrey had planned her trip to Asia, spending time in Sri Lanka, diving in the Indian Ocean, volunteering at an orphanage, and studying yoga, Reiki, and meditation in India.

• 11:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  How old is she?

• 11:07Danielle LaRock?

  Twenty-three.

• 11:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  Ah, she's just living.

• 11:10Danielle LaRock?

  Yep.

• 11:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Doing so much. At twenty-three, I hadn't done anything like that. I still haven't done a lot of those things.

• 11:16Danielle LaRock?

  I don't remember what I was doing. I was probably at the, hmm, was I? The Colorado Wolf and Wildlife Center was probably when I was twenty-three.

• 11:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 11:27Danielle LaRock?

  Around then, but I certainly wasn't bebopping around. I was just working three chops. Trying to get by. I remember eating just a block of cheese for dinner, like a lot, often. Because I was so tired and I just didn't, like, I didn't have the energy to cook anything. So I'd literally just get a block of cheese and just like, like, girl dinner before it's girl dinner.

• 11:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  I just love the visual, but like not even.

• 11:59Danielle LaRock?

  Like I didn't even slice it up.

• 12:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  Or something, you're just like gnawing on a block of cheese.

• 12:05Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. What a time. In the last five months, Aubrey had done a lot. Despite all of her solo travel, she was religious about checking in with her family and was in near constant communication with them. So Connie was well aware of her adventures and her upcoming plans. And this is when service was available, of course, not just, you know, and it's 2010, email, phone calls, things like that. She had a cellphone. It's not, you know, not anything like it is today.

• 12:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  But, but not in the, I mean, I think in 2010, they still made you pay per text message.

• 12:40Danielle LaRock?

  Did they?

• 12:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  Maybe not. Yeah. I think they had plans. You could do unlimited plans or you could play a pay per text. It was like seventy-five cents a text or something. Imagine

• 12:50Danielle LaRock?

  Oh my god.

• 12:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  The audacity to do that now. My bill would be like

• 12:53Danielle LaRock?

  Astronomical.

• 12:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Seven thousand dollars.

• 12:56Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I don't know. I just remember my first phone was a Virgin Mobile phone and I set a password and forgot the password and was never able to get back in.

• 13:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh no.

• 13:07Danielle LaRock?

  So, the most recent phone call left Connie a bit uneasy. Aubrey had called home from Darjeeling, India to share the news that she would be ending her trip to Asia with a visit to Langtang National Park, coupled with that, a solo trek amongst the tea houses within the park. Connie was really worried, not only for her daughter, you know, about to solo trek into the Himalayas on her own, but her husband Paul was about to undergo a major surgery at the same exact time. So Paul had gone snowboarding with Aubrey's brothers and sustained an injury to his femur that required surgery and his surgery was coinciding with the day that Aubrey was going to set off for her solo trek.

• 13:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  A lot of stressful things happening at one for a wife and a parent.

• 13:51Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, so Connie was just kind of like, maybe can you just, she wasn't trying to tell her to not go at all. She just kind of was like, hey, do you mind waiting a little while? Just so I can tackle one thing at a time.

• 14:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, I can worry about one person at a time.

• 14:04Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, so she expressed her concern and asked her daughter to hold off on going, but Aubrey, ever the optimist, did her best to ease her anxieties, saying, guys, don't worry. It's a national park. It's tea house trekking and it's safe.

• 14:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  I mean, it sounds like it would be. It sounds a tea house trekking. Who links danger with a tea house?

• 14:24Danielle LaRock?

  Well, especially when you learn more about the specific national park and just kind of how it's set up. Cause it is a, it is a little bit different than US national parks that a lot of us are used to. So let me just give you kind of a rundown on the park before we get going.

• 14:42Cassandra Yahnian?

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• 16:05Danielle LaRock?

  Established in 1976 to protect the unique flora and fauna of northern Nepal, Langtang National Park covers about 1,700 square kilometers, which equates to roughly 660 square miles, of lush, temperate river valleys, old-growth forests, glacially carved cliffs, and snow-capped peaks. You'd be hard-pressed to find a bad view here. With expansive alpine meadows, raging rivers, sharp, craggy mountains, and serene lakes, beauty is everywhere. The park isn't just known for its beauty, though, but also its residents. Populations of Himalayan black bear, snow leopard, musk deer, and over 250 species of birds thrive in over a dozen different ecosystem types here within this park. It's a remote place, requiring a seven-hour bus ride from the capital of Kathmandu.

• 16:50Danielle LaRock?

  And I do want to just say, we're not talking... A seven hour Greyhound bus ride going 50 miles an hour down the turnpike. I'm talking like, how can I say this that you would like Madagascar travel?

• 17:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 17:03Danielle LaRock?

  Bus ride.

• 17:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  So for people listening who have not been to Madagascar, it would be like a small bus. Very like, not very nice, but going over roads that have tons of potholes are not paved. And it's not a far distance. It just takes a long time to travel because the roads are so hard.

• 17:23Danielle LaRock?

  Correct. So it's not like it's a hundred miles away. It could be 10 miles away. It just takes it longer. Madagascar group, you know exactly what I'm saying. If you're listening, you know, okay.

• 17:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  It makes for an adventure. That's for sure.

• 17:36Danielle LaRock?

  That is true. Uh, I don't get carsick easily anymore. And that gave me a run for my money. I'll just say that. And while much of the park is rugged backcountry, the park also has something unique compared to the parks here in the US. Small villages and tea houses within the park itself. The majority of the most popular trekking routes have a number of brightly painted tea houses spaced every few hours along the trails, offering trekkers a comfortable place to rest, sleep, and have a good meal. Nestled in the rugged terrain, often accessed via suspension bridges and decorated with colorful prayer flags. The tea houses are generally basic in nature. I mean, some of them have been updated and are a little bit more bougie than others.

• 18:20Danielle LaRock?

  But by and large, they're just basic places for travelers to kick back. And some are older and are more rustic, but typically the small buildings offer up a whole main meal, a shared bathroom and a straightforward accommodation style, like a bunk style housing. And clearly they're all surrounded by the Himalayas, so it's, it's beautiful in landscape and what's surrounding. But the buildings themselves are kind of more rustic. So don't think of like tea house, like, oh, a tea house, like, we're not.

• 18:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  I wasn't thinking that.

• 18:50Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, okay.

• 18:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  I tea house still sounds nice.

• 18:53Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I know. You can't go wrong with going to a place like a tea house. I'm so, well, we're recording this before we go to our Rocky Mountain National Park trip. But when this comes out, we're just coming back and we're going to the tea house. We're snowshoeing to this tea house. I'm so excited.

• 19:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  The tea room that I covered on, I forget what episode it was, but I talked about the wigwam. Tea room.

• 19:15Danielle LaRock?

  Yes. Yep. Along with the natural beauty, there's also an opportunity to interact with the locals and immerse in Nepalese culture because by and large they're run by the local Nepalese people. And all of this for about three US dollars a night is kind of like the going rate for our room here.

• 19:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm rich.

• 19:32Danielle LaRock?

  Well, some certainly come here. Well, some certainly come here for the natural wonders, both landscape and wildlife. Just as many travelers venture from all over the world to visit the park, which is part of the larger sacred Himalayan landscape for cultural reasons. One of the most popular treks in the park, the Lang Tang Valley Trek, which is the one that we're going to be with today because that's the one Aubrey chose to do, takes an average of about five to seven days to complete and runs about 77 kilometers or 48 miles. It's a scenic route and it passes through villages, forests and mountain pastures, often with the opportunity to see rare wildlife, explore ancient stone monasteries and experience the culture of local Sherpa communities,

• 20:15Danielle LaRock?

  who offer opportunities to participate in local ceremonies and rituals and holiday celebrations, depending on the time of year that you're there. In fact, the park has become quite popular, especially as a lesser crowded, easier access alternative to the Everest region, which for climbers, we know is just kind of like a mecca. And you did an episode there, one of the first, I want to say it's within the first like 20 episodes, about how just kind of congested and crowded and kind of the different aspects of tourism there.

• 20:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, I did a whole episode. It was, I don't even remember. It was, it was really early on, but I did an episode about all of the trash that's left up there because there's so many people that venture out there. And there's actually now Everest has become so popular. It's still just as dangerous as it's always been, but it's become so much more popular and more accessible that a lot of people who reach the summit, they actually have to stand in a line to wait to reach the summit.

• 21:13Danielle LaRock?

  I've seen videos of that. Yeah. Like just standing in just this like, it kind of reminds me of just, I don't want to say like just cows, like all huddled together, but you're just like in this line, this rigid line of person after person after person. Just all the way up.

• 21:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's just insane to think about. I mean, you're in such a remote, very difficult place to get to and you're in a tourist line.

• 21:37Danielle LaRock?

  Right. It's like you're in the line to.

• 21:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's just weird.

• 21:40Danielle LaRock?

  What is it Splash Mountain or whatever? Yeah. There is a bit of a debate as to when the best time to visit Langtang National Park is, between spring and autumn, but Aubrey was visiting in April. And just imagining what she saw, bursts of red, pink, and white blooming wildflowers stretching into towering canopies of fir and oak forests framed by 21,000-foot peaks, makes me smile for her. But knowing she likely never left the park makes my heart ache for the free-spirited young woman who nearly skipped right into it. It was April 21st of 2010, and Aubrey was fresh off of that seven-hour bus ride from the capital. She had arrived there in Kathmandu days earlier, and she rented a room at a hotel.

• 22:22Danielle LaRock?

  She spent adequate time planning her next moves, like this trip, because like I said, it takes several days. It requires some pre-planning and making sure she has the right gear and things like that. She rented the appropriate gear she needed, and then she stashed her larger, heavier items, like her guitar, her laptop, her journal, just things that she didn't need to take on the actual trek. She stored that in a locker at the hotel she was staying at in the capital. Then she hopped aboard the crowded bus to Langtang. The spring is one of the busiest seasons for this park. Not only were the wildflowers showing off, but so was the weather. During this time, daily temperatures regularly reached the 70-degree Fahrenheit range, and the snowmelt swells the rivers and streams, creating cascading waterfalls and just a really beautiful scene.

• 23:06Danielle LaRock?

  The bus dropped everyone off, a mix of guests, porters, guides, and locals, on a two-lane road that led to a simple military checkpoint where Aubrey did as everyone else did. She signed the trucker's register, paid the entrance fee, and flashed the policewoman a beaming smile as she walked into the park. And she was on the move. By 10 a.m., she had already arrived at the Namaste Tea House and was enjoying some downtime when she met a local tour guide named Renzen Yonzen. The young man had grown up in the Langtang Valley. And while on breaks from his studies at the university over in the capital, he worked as a guide through the national park. And so this was one of those times that he was on break from school. And they met at the tea house and they hit it off right away.

• 23:49Danielle LaRock?

  They spoke for hours and as day bled into night, Renzen gave Aubrey a book, Ethnic Groups of Nepal. They hit it off so much that the next morning, as Aubrey shouldered her bag and ready to continue on her trek, the pair shared a parting hug and a promise to meet up again in two weeks' time back at the capital. So they stayed the night there, or she did. Whether or not they stayed together is up for speculation. Who cares? You know, she can do what she wants. But the next morning, she took off on her own. They parted ways and they're like, all right, see you in two weeks. Leaving the Namaste Tea House behind, Aubrey followed the trail up the valley, across a large suspension bridge that spans the Langtame River and up some switchbacks. She stopped for some rest and relaxation at her next stop, a small village with a cluster of tea houses,

• 24:33Danielle LaRock?

  snagged a Coke and a pizza and kicked back with her newly gifted book and just took a couple hours to herself. In the early afternoon, while she was still at the Sherpa Lodge, she met three young men in their early twenties and they exchanged pleasantries and pointed out their hiking plans on Aubrey's map that she had, that she had spread out and they were just talking logistics to one another. And when Aubrey shared her intention of continuing into the next village called Riverside, the trio of men discouraged that idea and basically said, it's too far to get to today safely with the daylight that we have left. So maybe you should hold off until tomorrow. And according to these three guys later, Aubrey held firm in her plan and said,

• 25:16Danielle LaRock?

  it's only an hour from here, don't lie to me and got up and left. And so far, her pace had been above the average hiker's pace because it typically takes about two hours of a walk from where she was at that Sherpa Lodge to that next location that she was aiming for. But her pace had been quicker than that. So maybe she was taking that into account, saying, I can get there in an hour. Like that's, it's not a big deal for me.

• 25:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Sure.

• 25:44Danielle LaRock?

  But if she ever made it there is unknown. There is a register there, but her signature was not located in it. It wasn't mandatory to sign that register at Riverside, but Gora Tabelah, which is located another two hours beyond Riverside, did have a mandatory register. And it is also the site of another military checkpoint. She never made it. So she never was seen, noted, or anything in that second location. So she may have very well gone to Riverside. There was just no requirement to to sign any sort of register.

• 26:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  We just know that she didn't make it to the next spot.

• 26:19Danielle LaRock?

  Correct, correct. Where it is, where it is a requirement. Meaning that somewhere between leaving the Sherpa Lodge and the Army Checkpoint in Gora Tabeala, she vanished. She was scheduled to be in the park for a week and out by April 30th at the latest. But several days after her scheduled out date, and with still no word from Aubrey, Connie began using her Lonely Planet guidebook on Nepal to contact whoever she could in the area she last knew Aubrey to be. Unable to speak the language and speaking to person after person who wasn't sure what or who she was calling about, Connie contacted the US Embassy at in the Capitol in Kathmandu. The embassy almost assured the family's worries because, and it's kind of odd because you would think

• 27:03Danielle LaRock?

  their reasoning is kind of actually creates more worry. But there was a strike going on throughout the entire country at this point in time. There's a group, without getting too into the weeds here, a group known as the Maoist, the Maoist Communists had gone on strike and it resulted in an almost complete shutdown of the country, which included all transportation. So Connie was told that the strike was nonviolent, but just inconvenient for travelers because you couldn't get to place to place. And that would explain why, perhaps, explain why.

• 27:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  She could still be in the park and hasn't left.

• 27:39Danielle LaRock?

  Yep.

• 27:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 27:40Danielle LaRock?

  Maybe she just got caught up somewhere. She was unable to get transportation to where she needed to be.

• 27:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  Just to clarify, so she was supposed to be out on April 30th. What was the last date that she was seen?

• 27:53Danielle LaRock?

  Well, that's up for debate.

• 27:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  With the three guys that she met?

• 27:57Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, so that was well within the timeframe that she that she was supposed to be in the park. Like, that all matches up. But there's later on in the timeline, people coming forward and saying, I saw her here. I saw her. I had a conversation with her. The dates vary. And then they kind of go back on that.

• 28:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 28:13Danielle LaRock?

  And change their story. So there's a lot of unknowns going on here.

• 28:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm just interested to see like when, and I'm sure you'll get into it, from the date she was supposed to return, how long was it before anyone had really seen her? Um, before her mom was like, wait, why isn't she back?

• 28:33Danielle LaRock?

  That's kind of where it's, there's a lot of unknowns because she entered the park for sure on April 21st.

• 28:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes.

• 28:39Danielle LaRock?

  She taught, she met that guy, she stayed overnight. So that brings us to April 22nd. And then she met those other hikers, the three guys that were like, hey, don't, you know.

• 28:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 28:48Danielle LaRock?

  Don't go forward. So that's at least the 23rd, 22nd, 23rd. And then it's kind of like a big question mark. So there's a significant timeframe here, like roughly a week.

• 28:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 28:59Danielle LaRock?

  Um, that there's a lot of unknowns. Another thing to note is Connie was aware that based on her last conversation with Aubrey, that she was without a cell phone because she had lost it at some point in her travels. So she was connecting with her on a landline, like in Kathmandu before she went out on this trick, so trek. So she was like, hey, just so you know.

• 29:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  Communication that she's, I mean, I'm sure she wouldn't have reception out there.

• 29:22Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 29:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  But she didn't have any sort of communication with her.

• 29:26Danielle LaRock?

  Yep. So the US Embassy told Connie that when the strike subsided and the estimated 50,000 plus travelers in the country were able to move about freely again, that they'd likely hear from Aubrey. But that day came and went with no word from Aubrey. So a formal search party was formed.

• 29:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  And what day was this when the strike ended?

• 29:47Danielle LaRock?

  So to put it more into a clearer timeline. So the strike ends a couple of days after Connie speaks with the embassy. And so now they're kind of like, okay, let's give her a little while to get where she needs to be, contact us. But without that, they were back and forth in contact with the embassy saying, hey, we still haven't heard from her. So the, the search party is created in early May, like just days after, um, she originally reached out to the US Embassy. And they're kind of in this limbo of, well, the, the Nepalese government is creating this search party, this formal search party. We're kind of waiting to hear anything, but also they're ready and waiting to jump in

• 30:29Danielle LaRock?

  and get involved directly. So by May 16th, when they still hadn't heard anything from the search note, or I should say the search hasn't produced anything of like, we know where Aubrey is, or we found something that could potentially answer some questions. Paul, the husband, Aubrey's dad, and Aubrey's older brother, Crofton, were catching a flight to Nepal. And they're like, we're getting involved directly. We're heading there.

• 30:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, we're so far away and we have no word. We don't really know what's going on. There's a search party, but that's it. We need to be there.

• 31:03Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. And by this time, the search party had been active for about 12 days. So well over a week.

• 31:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  Wow.

• 31:09Danielle LaRock?

  As with other people who have gone missing in wilderness areas, some sort of accident has to be considered, as we've talked about numerous times. And in many cases, is the answer to the question, what happened to this person? Falls, debilitating injuries, drowning, dehydration, hypothermia, any one of these or more could have befallen Aubrey. The rivers were swollen. She could have fallen in and been swept away. The trail did have some steep drop offs. She could have taken a wrong step and plummeted off an edge. Or perhaps she took a side trail to visit a tucked away remote monastery, or simply went off trail to relieve herself and got turned around. But her family doesn't think that any of that happened. After Paul's visit to the park and hiking the exact trail, he

• 31:53Danielle LaRock?

  gained a lot of perspective. He appeared on CBS's The Early Show upon his arrival home to discuss his daughter's case and said, quote, "The most important thing I learned was that the trek is not as dangerous as a lot of people believe it is. When people hear the word Himalayas, they think of Mount Everest. And really, this is a trail not unlike the ones in Colorado, but it just goes on forever. But it isn't as dangerous as we had previously thought. So it's very unlikely that she had an accident." End quote. And it's true. If you look up this trek in this park, it's just kind of the the trail is very long, takes days to do, but it's very wide open. There's not a lot of forest cover like you would think of getting off trail and getting turned around.

• 32:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 32:35Danielle LaRock?

  There are steep drop offs at some points and things like that. Things have happened to people there. That's not out of the realm of possibility, but it's not what you originally think as far as the the dangers and hazards that a lot of really remote places here.

• 32:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  And I imagine these search parties are looking at these areas too. So if she had had an accident in one of these spots, then she would be there.

• 33:00Danielle LaRock?

  Correct. Yeah. The theories swirled and snowballed. It seemed like nearly everything was suggested and considered, if only briefly to be thorough. From sightings of her leaving the park, being killed by hunters or poachers, that she was sex trafficked, even that she was abducted and sacrificed to Kali, the Hindu goddess of death. But what really disturbed her family was what has happened to other visitors, both before and after their daughter's disappearance. So we're going to get into some other quick stories that are very pertinent to this one.

• 33:39Danielle LaRock?

  In 2005, a 31 year old woman named Celine Henry, a visitor from France, was in the park solo trekking as Aubrey did five years later. Her looping signature was marked in the visitor register at Nargajan, just east of the Langtang Valley on September 3, 2004, but she never signed out. Her family reported her missing and a search was launched. While combing the Nargajan Forest region of Langtang National Park, items including a bra, a black jersey, and a water bottle were discovered and authorities were called. Nearby, a flattened grassy area stained with blood was discovered. Shockingly, searchers were certain that they had located a murder scene. Like, it was very clear that some something nefarious

• 34:22Danielle LaRock?

  had happened here. But even more startling, it wasn't connected to Celine, which was the woman that they were originally out there searching for. Rather, it turned out to be that of Sabine Grunkley. A 32-year-old solo hiker from Germany. She had signed that same register the previous day, but never signed out.

• 34:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh.

• 34:43Danielle LaRock?

  Investigators found more clothing and pages from both of the women's passports, prompting police to feel certain there was perhaps a serial killer, although no killer was ever found. Both women's remains were eventually found in the park in 2006 and in 2007.

• 35:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  So two and three years after the fact.

• 35:02Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, so 2005 is when originally Celine went missing.

• 35:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, I thought it was 2004.

• 35:08Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, no, yeah.

• 35:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  And what did they find with their bodies? Were there any indication of what happened to them?

• 35:14Danielle LaRock?

  I didn't go into detail with that, but it was clear that they were killed by another person.

• 35:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 35:19Danielle LaRock?

  Months after Aubrey's disappearance, several French women reported being sexually assaulted by soldiers manning the Gora Tabela Army Post. And in two separate incidents in the same area, one in 2011 and one in 2012, two more women reported the same thing. During the search for Aubrey, an American named Scott McLennan joined the effort for to search for Aubrey. With experience leading medical trips in the areas for over a decade, he alluded to the dangers women experienced in the park during a conversation with Paul, suggesting that Aubrey may have fell victim to the young army soldiers who were known to act as Rangers in the country's national parks and who had a reputation for abusing women.

• 36:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's awful.

• 36:01Danielle LaRock?

  According to Tracy Ross's article Gone Girl on Backpacker, Scott said, quote, "None of the girls who ever worked for me in my medical clinic would stay the night because it was next to an army post," end quote. So that's how.

• 36:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  Telling.

• 36:15Danielle LaRock?

  Yes.

• 36:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  And dangerous it is there.

• 36:17Danielle LaRock?

  Some incidents are narrow escapes. As in the case of Lena Sessions, a 23-year-old American who survived an attack in the park in December of 2011. Her masked attacker attempted to rape her, but she managed to get hold of the knife that he was wielding and ran. Others, and more brutally, just five months later, another 23-year-old woman from Belgium named Debbie Mavot was hiking in the same area and disappeared. Her decapitated remains were found 10 days later.

• 36:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, my God. That's awful.

• 36:49Danielle LaRock?

  It's like woman after woman after woman.

• 36:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like, what is happening here? And why, why is, is no one paying attention to this? I don't understand.

• 36:56Danielle LaRock?

  Right. Well, we'll get into it a little bit.

• 36:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  Because it sounds like, and I don't, maybe you'll get into this, but it sounds like she, like this was never brought up when Aubrey decided to go. Like, it sounds like she may have not known that all of this was going on.

• 37:11Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, we will certainly get into that bit a little bit more. But just to wrap up that little portion there, as far as Debbie's story, it's just a brief mention, and I I apologize for not going into it in more in depth. But there was no evidence of a sexual assault, and her expensive camera equipment and her money remained with her decapitated remains.

• 37:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  So it wasn't a robbery, it was just someone murdering her?

• 37:39Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 37:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's awful.

• 37:40Danielle LaRock?

  At least.

• 37:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  I mean, it's awful anyway, but just, just for being a woman out on the trail by herself.

• 37:46Danielle LaRock?

  And these are all women that are in the similar age range, mid twenties to early thirties, and solo, people who are women who are there solo trekking. Some of these incidents occurred prior to Aubrey's visit to Langtang, and others, in addition to the ones that I decided to highlight, continued after. But regardless, the Sakkos were unaware that there was such significant danger in the region at the time that their daughter embarked on her journey. However, the government of Nepal had strong recommendations against solo trekking, not only due to the lack of availability of immediate assistance in case anything went wrong and you're by yourself, but also due to the increased vulnerability

• 38:26Danielle LaRock?

  to criminals. Around the same time, the Nepali Ministry of Tourism attempted to ban solo trekking altogether. In fact, there are so many missing trekkers in Nepal, within this park specifically and beyond, like in the general region, there's an entire website dedicated to their cases. Missingtreker.com is a privately funded site set up due to lack of government or official assistance and serves as a sort of database to spread the word about their stories.

• 38:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  Why isn't the government, and I mean, I don't expect you to know this, but why isn't the government involved in this? And why are we banning-

• 39:04Danielle LaRock?

  Well, that's a big point of contention.

• 39:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Why are we banning solo trekking instead of going after these military men who are just attacking women because they're there?

• 39:11Danielle LaRock?

  And we, I mean, that's just one of the, we can't say for sure that's somebody within the Nepalese military is responsible for Aubrey's disappearance.

• 39:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, but they're responsible for other things and they have a reputation. So Aubrey aside, because we don't know for that, but it sounds like is definitely worth questioning. But why is it not being, why are they allowed to do this? We're just gonna ban solo hiking and ban women from going out in the woods because we don't want to stop men from attacking them?

• 39:42Danielle LaRock?

  That's the solution that they put forward, at least to consider.

• 39:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  Maybe don't let your military men attack women.

• 39:49Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, maybe start there. And then we can expand if needed, but probably not. Despite the alarming number of missing trekkers in the area, it remains difficult to keep track of missing and murdered trekkers as the government of Nepal, intentionally or not, does not keep adequate records of these cases. So I went on to this website to just take a look and see what the current standing and stuff is. And as of this recording, the online database has 24 entries representing 33 people who have gone missing between 1987 and 2023. And this is a privately funded website. Like you can, I could go on right now and be like, hey, my friend disappeared here.

• 40:34Danielle LaRock?

  This is their information and everything I know. And then they'll review it and post it. It's not any, it's not through any sort of government, governmental-

• 40:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Because the government's not paying attention.

• 40:45Danielle LaRock?

  Right. Or they are and have other reasons for not wanting to, I don't know. It's complicated. It's complicated.

• 40:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Okay. I don't like it.

• 40:57Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. Despite there being a spike in violent crime in the early 2000s, it wasn't isolated. Some of the cases have eerie similarities to the prolific serial killer Charles Sabrage, who preyed on Western tourists traveling what it was known as the Hippie Trail in the 1970s. Nicknamed the Serpent and the Bikini Killer for his knack for deceptive disguises, ability to escape prison, and tendency to target young women, his story is a big one. He was linked to more than 20 killings throughout 10 countries in South Asia in which the victims were drugged, strangled, beaten, or burned. There are several books, documentaries, and films about his crimes,

• 41:38Danielle LaRock?

  and the most popular being a 2021 limited series on Netflix titled The Serpent.

• 41:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, I haven't seen that.

• 41:46Danielle LaRock?

  I had never heard of that, and I kind of just left it at that because his story is clearly one that is huge and his victims are numerous, and there are likely entire podcast series about his crimes. But it just goes to show that this isn't new. Like, there is, there has been violent crime in this area before, and clearly that was in the 70s. But it seems like with all these other cases, especially in the early 2000s, it appears as if there may have been something similar going on.

• 42:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay. I have, you mentioned the Hippie Trail, and it just reminded me. I have a book on my bookshelf that is titled The Hippie Trail, and it's all about the history of this trail that extends through a bunch of different countries that people used to hike. And part of why I bought it was because it used to extend through Afghanistan, through Kabul. And there's pictures of people in these hippie vans, like, traveling in all of these places that are no longer accessible right now because of political uprisings and not just uprisings, but just war and things. So it's interesting that you mentioned the Hippie Trail because I've been meaning to read a book. On the history of the hippie trail.

• 43:05Danielle LaRock?

  Well, I would certainly be curious if that is mentioned because it was a huge story out of that particular trekking route and his crime spanned so many years. And I think part of the reason, based on the very limited research that I did into him, I think part of the reason his story is so garnered so much interest is not only because of the violent crimes that he committed against others, but because of his ability to, I mean, he was nicknamed the serpent, because he was able to wriggle out of prison and like the justice system, he kind of, and then I think he escaped or like got let off or I don't know, there's a lot of stuff going on with him. So.

• 43:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  A lot of stuff going on. Interesting.

• 43:46Danielle LaRock?

  Regardless. Okay, moving on.

• 43:57Danielle LaRock?

  All of these revelations alarmed Paul Ann Crofton, who spent five days on the trail that Aubrey set off on, doing what they could to cover inches and miles, determined to find Aubrey despite Paul's physical limitation. Because remember, he had surgery, he had a major surgery and that hip surgery left him with a pronounced limp as his body fought to recover while he scoured the Langtang Valley. When not physically on the trail, the search didn't stop. Paul scheduled interviews with locals, met with police and embassy officials and spoke to anyone who was willing to speak with him regarding his daughter. By mid-June, with no physical evidence or viable leads, Paul tearfully boarded a plane

• 44:38Danielle LaRock?

  bound for Colorado, clutching his daughter's belongings that he retrieved from her hotel locker.

• 44:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  That is, I just can't imagine that moment of being like, I have to go back to my life and I have to go home. You have responsibilities and to have to board a plane and leave knowing that your daughter is still somewhere, but you don't know where. That's must have been so hard.

• 45:04Danielle LaRock?

  I, I am not a parent, so I don't think I could begin to really put myself in that position. But just even imagining it is really heart wrenching and it just makes it, it just makes it so much more difficult, the unknown part. Like that's really what is the biggest thing in this story is just the total lack. Of information. It's like she just like vanished off the face of the earth, which we know never happens and there's always a reason, but what that reason is, is really what is just driving the frustration here. Yeah. But again, once in the States, the search didn't stop and what could be done for Aubrey,

• 45:46Danielle LaRock?

  a world away, was the FBI got involved. The family offered a $25,000 reward for information regarding her whereabouts. They began a Facebook group to reach out and gather information from anyone who could have come in contact with her. Like even if that person was like, I'm not sure if it was her, it kind of matches her description, whatever. They want to hear it all. They want to leave no stone unturned in this search. They built relationships with former Nepali army and FBI members, sent private investigators on more than one occasion over to Nepal and were relentless in their efforts. Frustrated with the lack of information from official channels, in July of 2011, Paul made a return trip to Langtang, this time with Connie and their younger son, Morgan,

• 46:28Danielle LaRock?

  where they followed in Aubrey's footsteps into the valley once again. They questioned the owner and employees of the Sherpa Lodge and connected with locals who were involved in the search originally. To add to their frustration, stories were starting to change and the locals were showing more and more hesitation on getting involved and talking with the family or investigators, especially the closer they got to Aubrey's last known whereabouts. The locals were initially very welcoming and helpful, but now it seems like they were beginning to be really wary of inserting themselves and offering up information. And the family felt a multitude

• 47:08Danielle LaRock?

  of emotions about this, namely frustration and anger and confusion as to why this is. But as Tracy Ross points out in her article that I mentioned earlier from Backpacker, maybe they were afraid. I was just gonna say, it feels like maybe they were threatened. Well, in 2000, a British trucker was found deceased in the Langtang River, thought to be murdered. And the local fishermen who reported finding him were put in jail for the crime for over 10 years. And despite the long-held belief among the locals and the fishermen themselves that the person or people responsible for the death of this trucker was not them. They were just the people who came across them and reported it.

• 47:52Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. And then they were punished for that. That is scary. Yeah. So the locals are kind of like, we're not getting involved. Like, we do not want to take the fall for anything. And we just rather mind our own business and stay out of it. Then risk going to jail for years for something. We're just trying to help. There is a palpable mistrust between the people who reside in the mountains and the police, which only made the search for Aubrey just that much more difficult. But it wasn't just the locals' hesitation that hampered the investigation. The government had a reputation for lacking adequate investigation response in previous cases and was especially criticized in Sabine and Celine's cases. And it was showing now in Aubrey's.

• 48:34Danielle LaRock?

  However, between then and June 1, 2010, over 200 people joined the search of the park along the Langtang Trail and beyond, on foot, by air, and with the assistance of canines. Police teams searched the trekking route and 300 feet on either side of the actual trail and interviewed villagers and tea house owners. And word was sent out to local monasteries and other popular tourist destinations and attractions that maybe she went off to see and then something happened to her there. So they were doing something. It's not like they were like, well, sorry. Yeah. We're not gonna help. Not only did the family continue their efforts from home and during annual visits back to Nepal in the years following Aubrey's disappearance.

• 49:19Danielle LaRock?

  Various search efforts within the park headed by the army were conducted as well. So it wasn't just that original search. They did do additional searches in the years later. Interviews continued and any potential lead was followed up upon. One lead in particular, an account of three men attacking a woman near Namaste, then dumping her body into the river, was really looked into. Because people knew that Aubrey had been in contact with three men, had been seen talking to them.

• 49:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  Right.

• 49:47Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, so they're like, okay, well, this seems like there might be some legitimacy behind it. However, the lead was later deemed unreliable. But three months later, following that lead, in July of 2013, the family received a phone call that her killers had been caught. But the phone call didn't come from the embassy or directly from the investigators, but rather it came from the media, who were asking for a comment on their daughter's apparent murder. So they literally got a phone call from the media, like, hey, do you want to comment on your daughter's murder? That just came out? And they're like, what are you talking about?

• 50:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  That hasn't even been...

• 50:22Danielle LaRock?

  They're like, what?

• 50:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  She's missing. She's not murdered.

• 50:25Danielle LaRock?

  Right.

• 50:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  At this point, yeah.

• 50:26Danielle LaRock?

  So this was the first time they were hearing about this, as reports prematurely leaked to the Nepal media, which, like wildfire, spread quickly to the States. Apparently, an undercover Nepali police officer met with a man who confessed to killing Aubrey. The undercover officer befriended this guy, who later implicated two other accomplices, all of which resided in Langtang. Reports of the men having some of Aubrey's clothing and belongings surfaced, and the three men were arrested. But closure wouldn't come for the Sako family. After 28 days of those three men being held in custody, all three were released.

• 51:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  Why?

• 51:05Danielle LaRock?

  The police ended up having serious doubts about their stories, which changed often. They kept flip-flopping their stories. People were going back and forth on what they were saying. And that whole, like, they all had something of Aubrey's at their home, one of her possessions, that turned out to not be true. So there was no physical evidence linking them.

• 51:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  Why would they say that they... Do they think that they were threatened or coerced or something to say?

• 51:31Danielle LaRock?

  Or just making things up because originally this came from a guy who was at a bar talking to an undercover police officer that bragged about killing Aubrey. So it's like he's not being coerced into anything. He was just, he didn't know he was talking to an undercover cop. So, so maybe he was just, I don't know. I don't know why that would be funny or something to brag about, but right. Yeah. We don't know the reason. And it went somewhere for a second, but then it didn't. Okay. The years have passed, but the desire to find Aubrey holds fast. The family has not only put their efforts into finding their daughter, but into keeping her alive in the minds of others. Paul spent hundreds of hours creating a tribute album to Aubrey titled,

• 52:11Danielle LaRock?

  Finding Aubrey, which included 11 songs written, performed, and mixed by him, and three songs that were recorded by Aubrey herself as she was packing for her trip to Asia. Her parents kept her cell phone active for years after her disappearance, and her best friend Amanda actually went on to marry Crofton. So she would essentially be Aubrey's sister-in-law now. Okay. Paul got Aubrey's handwriting tattooed on him, and they take care to continue to include her in any way that they can, like staging a piece of Aubrey's artwork in every family photo that they take. Aubrey's birthday is January 17th, and as of this recording, she would have just celebrated her 38th birthday. AubreySacco.com is a site that her family upkeeps to provide

• 52:55Danielle LaRock?

  updates and tributes, and as a place to showcase their daughter's works of art. They also utilize the site for fundraising and donations. Aubrey's Closet is a clothing donation service aimed at helping high school students interested in receiving free formal wear and accessories for their school dances by gifting eligible people free formal wear who can't afford maybe to buy an outfit or accessories for, I don't know, like prom or, um, what are the other things we used to do? Formal, like senior formal or whatever? Formal, yeah. Yeah. And it actually began several years after Aubrey went missing when her parents decided to share some of her wonderful garments, some of which she designed and decorated herself.

• 53:37Danielle LaRock?

  Because she was so artistically gifted, especially in clothing and things like that. They also offer bracelets and light catchers adorned with dragonflies, which is their sign for Aubrey. Any and all funds raised are put towards the search for their daughter. Largely due to the Sacco family efforts in urging the requirement for a guide while trekking in the country. As of December of two thousand and twenty four, so just a couple of months ago, that became a reality. The Nepal travel advisories state, quote, "Do not trek or climb alone. The government of Nepal requires solo or foreign independent trekkers to use a local guide or porter while trekking in Nepal's official national parks and protected areas." So now that has changed.

• 54:20Danielle LaRock?

  Her family has had to grapple with various difficult versions of what could have possibly happened to her. Whether she got lost, was fatally injured, kidnapped and killed, kidnapped and kept alive, or even disappeared intentionally. Although they are aware of all the possibilities, Paul and Connie continue to speak of her, both in interviews and in writing, in the present tense. Paul tells Tracy Ross, quote, "It isn't just that we miss Aubrey or want to punish the people who may have harmed her. It's an unending belief that the answers are there and that we are so very close to finding them." To this day, nothing has been found of Aubrey. If you have any information about Aubrey's case, please reach out to the Sacco family via their website at aubriesacco.com.

• 55:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, what a hard Aubrey sounds like truly a light in the world and an amazing person. And so does her family. I mean, she clearly has an extremely loving family that is going through so much to find her. And I hope that they get answers and I hope that this isn't something that is drawn out for more and more years and that something is going to come of it soon.

• 55:27Danielle LaRock?

  I know, and it's it's so true. It's like, just like Paul said, it's just not only do we want to do these things, we want to find her. We want to punish people, the people responsible, that's all. A given, but it's the fact that it feels like the answers are right out of reach and the frustration of not being able to get to them is what is really the most difficult thing here. And I mean, it's been 15 years at this point that she has been gone or coming up on it right around the corner. And it's just kind of like what happened to her is something that they're still really, really searching for. And I listened to a couple interviews that they have done on different news outlets and podcasts and things like

• 56:08Danielle LaRock?

  that. And just the love that they have for their daughter is just so, it just shines right through. And it just makes you feel for them all the much more because Aubrey is so alive for them in so many ways. So just echoing what you said, I really hope that something comes of it soon, because whatever it may be, it's going to kind of close the loop on at least that portion of the story for them.

• 56:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  To have answers, I mean, at this point, whatever has happened or is continuing to happen, they need answers and need to know what's going on. There's just so much, there's so much that is haunting about not having those answers because with no answers comes so many questions. And I just, 15 years is a really long time to.

• 56:56Danielle LaRock?

  Well, and it's also, it has a little bit of difference of, you know, the, the cases that I outlined and beyond. There's physical evidence there, whether in the form of a physical body, or belongings, or anything. And with Aubrey's case, there is literally nothing. So it's just kind of like, it really adds complexity to that. Because instead of just grouping her with, well, likely what happened to Celine, or Sabine, or any of these other people may have happened to her, which is true. And that still is a possibility, but. There's nothing to-

• 57:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  Having no indication of that or anything else is hard. It's just, there's so many questions.

• 57:40Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. Okay. Well, gosh, I hate to just kind of like end it on that, but that's all I have for you today. And hopefully you take a moment to look up Aubrey and just kind of send some positivity to, out to the Sacco family and to Aubrey herself. And just take a look at, she just likes, it looks like such a good time, honestly. Like her picture, she's in that, she like went to Burning Man.

• 58:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like someone you'd want to be friends with.

• 58:06Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. She just looks like a good time and she would definitely be the golden retriever to my black cat. That's the dynamic.

• 58:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 58:15Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 58:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, I'm glad that you told her a story because I do think it's important to get these out because you never know. You never know who is listening and there truly is, maybe someone knows something, maybe someone saw something that will hear this and go, oh, hey, maybe I have some information. And yeah, or talk to someone who's like, oh, hey, maybe I have some information. So it's always good to keep these stories going and to get more and more information out. Because you just never know where that thread is going to connect to something else. So I'm glad you covered it and thank you.

• 58:48Danielle LaRock?

  Well, thank you. All right, everyone. Well, that is all we have for you this week. We will see you next time. In the meantime, please enjoy the view.

• 58:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  But watch your back.

• 58:56Danielle LaRock?

  Bye, everyone.

• 58:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  Bye.

• 58:58Danielle LaRock?

  Thank you for joining us again this week. If you love National Park After Dark and want to hear exclusive bonus stories, join us on Patreon or Apple subscriptions. Patreon subscribers have access to our National Park After Dark Book Club, live streams, Discord, and much more. If you prefer to watch our episodes, video episodes are now available on YouTube. If you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe on your favorite listening platform. And to follow along with all our adventures, you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and X at National Park After Dark.

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