Julian Lennon on “Life’s Fragile Moments”

Julian Lennon is a Grammy-nominated musician with chart topping records around the globe. He is also a world-class photographer, devoted philanthropist, and the son of one of the most famous musicians of all time. Lennon’s latest photography work is on display in his recently published book, “Life’s Fragile Moments”. In addition to music and photography, Lennon is the chief visionary officer of The White Feather Foundation which partners with philanthropists and charities around the world to support various humanitarian projects. In this conversation, Lennon shares insight into his creative process, his upbringing, early career, and his relationship with his father John Lennon. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:04Alec Baldwin?

  This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the Thing from iHeart Radio. My guest today is a Grammy-nominated musician whose records have topped the charts in the US, the UK, and Australia. He is also a world-class photographer, whose work has been exhibited in the US and abroad. He's also the son of one of the most famous musicians of all time, Julian Lennon's current photography work is on display in the recently published book, Life's Fragile Moments. In addition, Lennon is the chief visionary officer of the White Feather Foundation, which partners with philanthropists and charities around the world to support various humanitarian projects.

• 1:48Alec Baldwin?

  Julian Lennon is kind, talented, and enormously generous. And despite growing up in an unimaginably famous family, Lennon has made a name for himself through his various creative and humanitarian endeavors. It's a career that demands an impressive work ethic.

• 2:08Speaker 04

  I'm pretty full on really when it comes to work and you know if I have started something, I have to finish it. You know, it's just, it's just this driving purpose that I have inside to get things done.

• 2:23Alec Baldwin?

  To do books like this.

• 2:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, because it just makes me feel like I'm worthy of something, you know, and initially that's really to prove it to myself that I'm not just a lazy piece of shit, but that I have worth. And so doing all these things has been very, very, even more important in my position because, you know, I really felt like, especially over the last five, 10 years, that I needed to lay a foundation down of all the things that I'm interested in and all the work that I want to do, where nobody could deny the fact that I've actually am capable of these projects, you know, whether it's from the White Feather Foundation, whether it's from

• 3:07Alec Baldwin?

  Your charity.

• 3:08Speaker 04

  Yes, whether it's working on documentary projects, whether it's writing children's books, environmental humanitarian stuff, whether it's, you know, now photography has been the mainstay because I've just fallen in love with it. And also that thing of being behind the camera, which is, I don't mind, and I've said this before, being a bit of a goof in front on occasion, but again, I really get that anxiety being in front of the camera.

• 3:36Alec Baldwin?

  Did you say goof?

• 3:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, goofball.

• 3:38Alec Baldwin?

  I wonder where that's from, if your personality comes from.

• 3:41Speaker 04

  Well, yeah.

• 3:42Alec Baldwin?

  A lot of goofball in him.

• 3:43Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. No, certainly. Dad was a complete nut job. He was a complete nut job, you know. I mean, I'm so jealous of his days with Peter Sellers, you know, and obviously George with the Monty Python crew, because, I mean, I grew up on that stuff, you know, I absolutely adore and love, you know, that is number one for me, that kind of humor, that kind of twisted, slightly English, you know, left of field approach. And they were goofballs beyond.

• 4:11Alec Baldwin?

  Deluxe.

• 4:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:13Alec Baldwin?

  Among the best.

• 4:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, for sure, for sure.

• 4:15Alec Baldwin?

  So I always say that's the difference.

• 4:17Speaker 04

  It's a pleasure to watch them in the old movies, you know, just the quirks, the comments, the wit. You know, and the speed of that wit as well from the old days.

• 4:27Alec Baldwin?

  Lester knew, I mean Lester, I always say that Lester was a genius because he just got out of their way. Just film them, to put a camera on, do whatever the fuck they want to do. What we don't like, we'll throw out, what we like, we'll keep.

• 4:37Speaker 04

  That's the best thing you can do.

• 4:39Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, bingo. Now, I want to talk about your mom.

• 4:41Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 4:42Alec Baldwin?

  And I want to talk about her because, of course, you were raised by your mom, your dad was off doing his thing.

• 4:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:47Alec Baldwin?

  And your mom, who is always seems like this really, really like beautiful stoic figure. She was somebody who accepted how she was treated and how she was dealt with and moved on to raise you. You're only, her only child, correct?

• 5:02Speaker 04

  Correct, yeah.

• 5:03Alec Baldwin?

  So she had one child, you, and she raised you, correct?

• 5:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:06Alec Baldwin?

  And what was that like for you in terms of, I don't want to say in a broad sense, but what was that like for you in terms of your life and the reverberance of this other valley over there of something else is going on?

• 5:16Speaker 04

  The reverberance didn't really affect me at all. I mean, that didn't exist in my life as a young kid, it really didn't. No, not at all. I mean, when dad left, when I was about three or four or whatever it was. Apparently, I used to have nightmares about it because obviously he was dad at that point in time. But once, you know, other people filled that void, you know, my first stepfather, who was Italian, was like an older brother to me. Another nut job, but and someone who I looked up to massively. And we continued that relationship until his death about 20 years ago. But yeah, it was just mom and I, you know, and I think I am the way I am truly because of her and because

• 6:00Alec Baldwin?

  Your regard.

• 6:01Speaker 04

  Well, how she dealt with the situation she was left in, that she had no choice. You know, she could have screamed and shouted about it, but she didn't. I felt that she just had dignity and grace.

• 6:14Alec Baldwin?

  Yes.

• 6:15Speaker 04

  And moved on with her life as best she could and, you know, survived it pretty darn well. And I carry that and I definitely feel I carry that and without question. This is one thing she said to me and I certainly took it to heart when I was a bit more rough around the edges, which was that I was very much like mom in the week and dad at the weekends. So that that

• 6:43Alec Baldwin?

  Better than the other way.

• 6:44Speaker 04

  That was true to form back in the day, no question about that. Not so long ago, but long enough.

• 6:49Alec Baldwin?

  You had your run.

• 6:50Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, I had a few runs. Yeah, I had runs in Europe, I had runs in New York, runs in LA. Runs back in Europe and but now, you know, I actually like living and I like waking up feeling good. I like working, I like all the projects that I do and I enjoy life, you know, and I do everything now that I possibly can to maintain and and live a longer and better and healthier and happier life.

• 7:18Alec Baldwin?

  Well, I say to people, I said, I realize that drugs are like a toy, like when you're a kid, but eventually you gotta put it down, like other toys.

• 7:24Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, no question.

• 7:24Alec Baldwin?

  And I'm glad I, you know, for me, I just had to put it down. Now, the thing that I think again about your mom is that, I mean, there's nothing as steeped and more lore and bullshit than your whole family and the whole situation. No, but I mean, people making up shit.

• 7:38Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 7:39Alec Baldwin?

  We have to, but I remember this story somebody told me where like they were all running to get on a train.

• 7:44Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 7:44Alec Baldwin?

  And mom get left behind. That was a metaphor for the whole thing. They're all going where they're going and I'm not going with them.

• 7:51Speaker 04

  That was real.

• 7:52Alec Baldwin?

  That is real.

• 7:52Speaker 04

  Absolutely real, yeah. She was left on the station.

• 7:55Alec Baldwin?

  Train station.

• 7:56Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah. And it was only after the train gone that she was, you know, that they realized or Epstein, Brian realized really, because he kind of took care of mom as best as he could, you know, because obviously she was not supposed to be around either, you know, back in those days, none of the boys were supposed to be married or had had girlfriends, you know.

• 8:17Alec Baldwin?

  Or kids.

• 8:18Speaker 04

  Or kids, thank you very much.

• 8:20Alec Baldwin?

  Get that kid out of here.

• 8:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, sure. So, yeah, she was left on this train. There's actually a picture of her standing on that train station on her own after the train left the station.

• 8:30Alec Baldwin?

  Hard to believe that that's real.

• 8:31Speaker 04

  You want to talk about representation, yeah, that's it right there.

• 8:35Alec Baldwin?

  Now, the thing I find interesting when you talk about it, or this is my take, so forgive me if I'm way off base, really. And that is the one of the things that was lost in his life, your father, because of his success, because of his preternatural, no one lived that life. Before that, and because of all that shit with your father, what was robbed from him was a chance to be something I think he would have been pretty good at, which was a dad.

• 8:57Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, for sure. He began to be that with Sean.

• 9:00Alec Baldwin?

  For years, he was really.

• 9:01Speaker 04

  And I was around during Sean's upbringing as well, and that's why I love him so much. And because of what I went through, I don't want to see him, you know, go through the same kind of crap that I did. And, and, you know, he's certainly gone through what I did, and if not worse, you know, having me, having me as another element to contend with. But he's made his way through. He's a talented mofo. And, you know, I saw him the last two nights, and we rarely get to see each other, but we just hang and we order in, and we just talk about life and where we're at and how we're doing. And we're still here, thankfully, and that we love each other. And that's the most important thing in the world, regardless of our positions or where we ended up.

• 9:42Alec Baldwin?

  When you were a child, you picked up musical instruments to play them, at least with a thought of being serious about it, you know, one thing to be three years old, but another thing. When did it really start to kick in for you when you were how old? Your music?

• 9:55Speaker 04

  Well, I, well, the thing was, I, I, I think I started playing a little bit in school, about the age of 11 or 12, 13. And it was actually my best friend, Justin Clayton, who's still my best friends from since we were 11 years old. And I still work with him to this day. He co-produced the last album, Jude, with me and co-wrote a lot of stuff. It was actually him that would go to these guitar lessons to learn how to play rock and roll with the guitar teacher who had one of those DA haircuts. Sorry, he was a gym teacher. He was a PE teacher, who had a DA, you know, duck's ass grease back haircut. And whenever there were breaks, Justin would go, and I'm going, where are you going? What are you doing? And, you know, he'd be there with a few other friends, learning Puff the

• 10:39Speaker 04

  Magic Dragon at first, but then Johnny Be Good. And I started getting interested in that. I started playing that. And then Dad heard about that. And so when I actually went to visit him in New York when I was about 11, I think it was about that time, you know, he would start teaching me a couple of basic chords on guitar, too. But I actually had an interest in that. Believe it or not.

• 11:01Alec Baldwin?

  I know, I was gonna get to that.

• 11:03Speaker 04

  Before that.

• 11:04Alec Baldwin?

  You did, before that.

• 11:06Speaker 04

  Before.

• 11:06Alec Baldwin?

  Before music.

• 11:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, before I got a serious interest in music, yeah, because I did a fair amount of, I did the year end plays in school and I had an offer for the Shakespeare Company, they were scouting and I was picked out as one of the potentials. But then I learned how to play four chords and the girls got up and screamed at you for, you know.

• 11:27Alec Baldwin?

  Oh no, not that.

• 11:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, so that was the end of it, you know. But I, I guess I really got closer and closer to it. Justin and I, we got heavily, you know, as kids, teenagers do, you start listening to stuff that you love, whether it's the Beatles or Led Zeppelin or ACDC or Peter Frampton or Keith Jarrett, you know, so Steely Dan, you know. I really fell in love with music in that regard. And again, after learning how to play a couple of chords and starting to sing a little bit, that's really where that kind of took off and he, Justin and I started writing songs about fifteen, sixteen, seventeen.

• 12:05Alec Baldwin?

  Was the acting before that?

• 12:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, the acting was before that.

• 12:09Alec Baldwin?

  And why didn't the acting last?

• 12:11Speaker 04

  I, I mean, I did enjoy it and I always thought I'd be an actor later on in life, still do, still did. Well, don't know about do because I always loved the older actors like Albert Finney. You know, that deep emotional dark side of acting.

• 12:25Alec Baldwin?

  You did it for that brief period then you walked away because of music?

• 12:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, I just fell head over heels for the music. Also, one of my, one of the problems that I still endured to this day is that I have a terrible memory. So remembering lines was a big thing for me and even remembering lyrics and songs these days is a problem for me.

• 12:47Alec Baldwin?

  When you started to make your music, were you just really conscious of just doing what you wanted to do, when you're what you felt and let the echoes fall where they may and you didn't really care?

• 12:55Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 12:56Alec Baldwin?

  Right.

• 12:56Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, I cared, you know, I was concerned about the responses I was gonna get, but I, it was just a question of enjoying the moment and going through it and plowing on and that's what I did, you know, and.

• 13:10Alec Baldwin?

  Have your George Martin, somebody who sat with you and said, do this, don't do this, this is better, this is weaker.

• 13:15Speaker 04

  I I I would have to say that a lot of the earlier stuff was being pushed around a lot. I mean, I I, you know, I went with the flow, but I did follow the rules back then. I think it was when I started not following the rules that I was, I became a diva and the difficult one. And I started getting dropped by management, dropped by record companies.

• 13:37Alec Baldwin?

  Cause you wanted to do what you wanted to do.

• 13:38Speaker 04

  No, I just didn't want to do that, what they wanted me to do anymore. And I I just said, no, I'm not, you know. I feel for the kids these days because, I mean, if we thought we had a lot to do on the promotional front back in the day. There's, you know, a hundred gazillion times more things to be done these days, you know, where you can't even breathe.

• 13:59Alec Baldwin?

  Well, you want Johnny Carson when you were twenty one years old.

• 14:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, that was fabulous.

• 14:03Alec Baldwin?

  I mean, Jesus Christ, how much more pressure can you have at twenty one?

• 14:06Speaker 04

  But I I, you know, it was all a bit of fun back then.

• 14:09Alec Baldwin?

  It was.

• 14:09Speaker 04

  You know, I mean, no.

• 14:10Alec Baldwin?

  Looser.

• 14:11Speaker 04

  Yes, anxiety, but but it was, you know, I was with the band. I always considered that I was with the band because that's where I felt comfortable. It's like a lot of the TV shows that I ended up doing throughout Europe and and America too. That they'd always want to put me on this podium or platform way in front of the band and the band behind me. I'm going, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're lining me up with the band so I can react with the other players that I'm singing and playing with. I want that, I need that. I don't feel like this solo artist that should be just standalone way up in the front there. Although there were occasions that I had no control over, but for the most part, I would always try to

• 14:54Speaker 04

  have the band be inclusive of whatever scenario I was going through because that was the camaraderie. That's where I felt a little safer.

• 15:02Alec Baldwin?

  A part of.

• 15:02Speaker 04

  A a a part of and where you, the boys joke around, you know, it was a familiarity to what I'd seen. You know, in the Beatles films and and all of that stuff where, you know, was this, the the lads having a bit of fun, you know. But.

• 15:18Alec Baldwin?

  Don't get me started.

• 15:19Speaker 04

  But but but being solo, you know, on your own in front of all that, with the rest of that kept away from you. There were a few occasions like that, that with the management and I just said, I can't be like that.

• 15:30Alec Baldwin?

  He didn't want Julian Lennon and the and the Hurricanes.

• 15:32Speaker 04

  No, no, I had to be in it, you know, in it with the boys.

• 15:37Alec Baldwin?

  Wow.

• 15:40Alec Baldwin?

  Musician, photographer and philanthropist Julian Lennon. If you enjoy conversations with the most creative minds in music, check out my episode with Radiohead's Thom Yorke.

• 15:52Speaker 05

  There's always really exciting music being made. It's never not being made. It's a question of whether you're going to get to hear it or not. I mean, I kind of knew the game was up a few years ago when one of our sort of team of people came in saying Nokia wants to offer you da-da-da-da-da millions of pounds because they want content for their phones. And this is like in 2000, I don't know, early 2000s. And you're like, content what? You know, content. What, you mean music? Yes.

• 16:23Alec Baldwin?

  To hear more of my conversation with Thom Yorke, go to here'sthething.org. After the break, Julian Lennon shares his thoughts on the music industry today and what he enjoys listening to in his downtime.

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• 18:26Alec Baldwin?

  I'm Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Julian Lennon has released seven albums of his own music since 1984. He's an artist with a rich and diverse background of life experiences to draw inspiration from. I was curious about Lennon's thoughts on current music and what the son of a beetle enjoys listening to in his free time.

• 18:50Speaker 04

  There's a few new artists that I love out there that are fusion and jazz orientated. There's a band called Snarky Puppy. I don't know if you know those guys.

• 18:59Alec Baldwin?

  Write that down.

• 18:59Speaker 04

  Snarky Puppy. They can be between up to at least 20 people in the band. And they're all soloists in their own right. They have their own albums and they do their own tours independently. But they also work as trios, quartets, and as this kind of 18, 20-piece group. And they come together several times a year to do an album or two. And they tour all together as well. A friend of mine, who actually played on this album, Jude, two of the founding members of Snarky Puppy, Michael Lee, who's an incredible multi-instrumentalist bass player, and Bill Lawrence, who did some piano with me, and we've written a few things that'll come out down the road.

• 19:41Speaker 04

  But there's a couple of radio stations I listen to in particular that play independent...

• 19:48Alec Baldwin?

  Stream.

• 19:48Speaker 04

  Interesting. Yeah, that while I'm editing photos, doing stuff like that, or just working in general, I'll have that music on in the background. And every time I catch something I like, I'll, you know, shazam it and put it in a...

• 20:06Alec Baldwin?

  I'm always standing on chairs in restaurants, shazamming.

• 20:09Speaker 04

  But I'll just be able to, you know, then and there, put my phone up and go. And I'll have a Shazam playlist, which is about two or three hundred songs now that I'll just rotate in between listening to one or two of those radio stations.

• 20:25Alec Baldwin?

  In my mind, in the way that we experience music, all the music that goes into your brain in your youth and the things that helped to shape you in terms of your emotional fragility. Like, I run out the door and I say to myself, I gotta make as much money as I can. My father had no money.

• 20:42Speaker 04

  Right.

• 20:43Alec Baldwin?

  And I saw how having no money destroyed my father. He died when he was fifty-five years old. He had cancer, rabid form of cancer. And I look at my dad and I go, my father working as hard as he did not having any money is what killed him.

• 20:54Speaker 04

  Right.

• 20:54Alec Baldwin?

  He had six kids and no money, his schoolteacher. And I said, I can't, I mean, I remember like walking around L.A. when I was first working going, don't end up like dad, don't end up like dad, don't end up like dad. I started working when I was twelve. So as you get older, I can only listen to that music to soothe me.

• 21:10Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 21:10Alec Baldwin?

  That's my music.

• 21:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's a safety net.

• 21:13Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah, it's a part of me.

• 21:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, but well, you, you know, I agree. And I felt, I fell in love with that kind of, all the variations of that, that kind of music back in the day. And they, and half of the stuff that I, that I still listen to was certainly at a relatively relevant point in my life, you know, different moments in my life that I went through of where I was growing up that I can go, you know, very much a reminder of a time and a place, which I don't think today's music necessarily does in the same manner at all. You know, there's certainly a level of emotion that's disappeared and depth of quality and.

• 21:55Alec Baldwin?

  No, but I mean, you're like, you'll sit there and you go, Father Mackenzie wiping the dirt from his hands as he walks from the grave.

• 22:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:00Alec Baldwin?

  No one was saved. You sit there and go, who the fuck's gonna write that now?

• 22:03Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. Maybe Thom Yorke.

• 22:06Alec Baldwin?

  Maybe Thom Yorke. He did our show.

• 22:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, I know, I know he did. I listened, I listened to the show. That's, that's what, yeah, that's what made me wanna come on because I heard that and I went, yeah, that was a great show. So actually, one of the first times I've actually heard him speak and. Be comfortable and natural on the show.

• 22:21Alec Baldwin?

  We've been people on here. We just really love them. Now, since you're twenty one years old, obviously, even before. You're surfing in between in terms of music. You have a music career.

• 22:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:31Alec Baldwin?

  And you start making films. You made films, directed and produced films?

• 22:35Speaker 04

  Well, no, what happened was, and this was much later in life, it was over twenty five years ago, that's for sure. But I had a song called Saltwater, which was an environmental and humanitarian song that pretty much was top ten, top five worldwide, except for America, where I had a really shitty record company that did no promotion whatsoever. But I was number one in Australia. So I went over there and I was touring, doing promo tour and playing live at the same time. And I was, this was the birth of the White Feather Foundation as well. We were number one in Australia. I was hosting all kinds of shows. Saltwater was playing all over the place. I was invited by the hotel down to the lobby.

• 23:19Speaker 04

  Who said, you know, we've got an indigenous tribe down here that want to talk to you. And I said, you've got to be kidding, right? I, you know, on the road, you get these pranks. People are playing. So I'm thinking, yeah, sure, sure.

• 23:31Alec Baldwin?

  Like you'd come receive an award.

• 23:33Speaker 04

  Are going to be hanging out in the lobby. But they were. And with several new screws. And so I went downstairs, elevator door opened. And that's, I don't know, thirty, forty, fifty. I couldn't tell how many people. You know, it was a bit fuzzy on the outside of the vision. And there was this little platform and I stepped up and indigenous people there and this woman who was the elder called Iris, sadly passed a year or two ago. From quite possibly the oldest indigenous, you know, group of people survives in the world, you know. And she walks up to me in the middle of the semicircle, hands me this male swan's white feather.

• 24:16Speaker 04

  And says, you know, can you help us? You have a voice. Can you help us? And I'm like, oh, you know, do I just continue to be a rock and roller? Or do I kind of step up to the plate? I mean, you know, the song, which is number one, is about humanitarian and environmental issues. So, but here's a clincher on this one. And I've told this many times before, but every time it still affects me too. That dad had told me that at some point in my life, and I cannot tell you when or where, but it happened. And I thought it was peculiar at the time because I thought, this is a weird thing to say to me.

• 24:56Speaker 04

  But he said, if something happens to me, the way that I'll let you know that I'm going to be okay, or that everything's going to be okay, will be in the form of a white feather. So when the elder, this woman from the oldest indigenous tribe on the planet, hands me a white feather, you know, the goose, I get goosebumps every time. I'm going, I'm sorry, whatever you believe in, this is undeniable. Absolutely undeniable spiritual connection. And so I went, okay, right, that's it. Step up, get on with it. So I spent 10 years with the director, Kim Kindersley, who's a dear friend of mine, making a documentary about them called Whale Dreamers.

• 25:41Speaker 04

  Not only about the Moaning Tribe, but about 80 other tribes, indigenous tribes around the world, who were suffering the same fate, the same plight as the indigenous in Australia. They're being thrown off their land for nuclear testing, da, da, da, da, da, onto warring tribes' lands and ongoing, you know, the lands had been stolen from them. We're still fighting with them now to get their land back, you know? And we're winning at the moment. So knock on wood, that continues. Again, we weren't supported. We didn't have backers. It was just a little independent film. We won eight international independent film awards, so we did quite well. But with the advent of the internet, I decided to put a website together so I could sell the film.

• 26:26Speaker 04

  Because I said that You know, if this film makes any money in any way, shape or form, I want it to go back to the Murning people, the Murning tribe. How do you spell that? M I R N I N G, Murning. Murning, okay. But the only way I was told at that point in time to be able to do that was to start a foundation. So henceforth, the White Feather Foundation was born purely as a vehicle to get money from the sales of the film to the Murning tribe. Then, over the course of time, I'd start getting these emails going, well, can you help us? And can you help us? And I'm going, well, listen, I'm not really a foundation as such, you know?

• 27:09Speaker 04

  But then I thought, you know, I am in a position to try and help. So I started looking at things that personally I would like to help with, that affected me. Obviously indigenous cultures around the world, that was number one on the list, with, you know, buying back their land and preserving their land and their culture and their Heritage. Heritage. And then, you know, there are many, many organizations out there that deal with clean water, but that's still a necessity. So we still, you know, and I guess you could say how we operate, we're a small group. There's only a few people, in fact, me and two others. But we live on donations by the public. So it's public that really help us help them, you know?

• 27:55Speaker 04

  And I guess our position, or at least what I've felt about it, is that we're trying to catch the ones who fall between the cracks of the big organizations that can't take care of everybody. So it's the little, little people and the little problems that happen here, there and everywhere that we try and save and help. So apart from that, the other elements are health and education for girls. And I started a scholarship in my mother's name after she passed because I felt it was a way to honor her. You know, so it's the Cynthia Lennon Scholarship for Girls. I saw that, yeah. Yeah, yeah, so I'm proud of that. We've helped a lot of girls go through to college and university to come back again.

• 28:37Speaker 04

  And protect their families and their towns and their people, you know, and their cultures. So I'm very proud of that.

• 28:45Alec Baldwin?

  Have you done many benefit like performances or?

• 28:48Speaker 04

  We did one gala once. It was in Monaco, actually. But the stress and the cost of putting it on was more than it was worth at the end of the day. To be honest with you.

• 28:59Alec Baldwin?

  You could have just written a cheque and walked away.

• 29:01Speaker 04

  Exactly, exactly. So that's my preference is just, you know, I'll keep shaking hands and trying to get some donations brought in, but the whole gala thing.

• 29:10Alec Baldwin?

  Yeah.

• 29:10Speaker 04

  I mean, I, I myself became a little sick and tired of going to those kind of things, you know. What happens in my circumstance is that with everything that I do, whatever hat I'm wearing, a good proportion of what I earn goes to the White Feather Foundation, whether it's from the books, whether it's from music, whether it's from the documentaries or you name it.

• 29:34Alec Baldwin?

  Now, you lived in places in the United States for periods of time.

• 29:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 29:38Alec Baldwin?

  New York and LA, I would imagine.

• 29:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 29:39Alec Baldwin?

  And you were there for, for years.

• 29:41Speaker 04

  I was in New York in the late eighties and I thought I might die here

• 29:48Speaker 04

  because the party scene back then in the late eighties was quite serious.

• 29:52Alec Baldwin?

  Robust.

• 29:52Speaker 04

  Oh yeah, the Limelight Arena and yeah, and everybody was out. I mean, everybody was on the town every night, you know. And then I went out to LA and a friend of mine picked me up in an old convertible and drove me along Mulholland. And I went, ah, this is nice. And then, of course, you, you know, most bars close up at, you know, last orders at one thirty, two o'clock. And you think you're safe. No, you're not safe because that's when everybody goes back to everybody else's houses. And it's worse than New York. And so, you know.

• 30:26Alec Baldwin?

  You have a chef that makes dinner. They have everything right there.

• 30:29Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah. No, it was very, I mean, I did enjoy it. I had one of the best times of my life in LA because I became part of a Brat Pack biker crew, you know, with Harleys. And, you know, the likes of me and Billy Idol and every Sunday, regardless of our condition, we'd be off bike riding, you know, down the Angeles Crest.

• 30:48Alec Baldwin?

  Get a cleanse.

• 30:49Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. But it was a fabulous time, an enjoyable time back in the day. I had a good. Probably five, six years there. And then the seventh and eighth year, I became a little numb and that's, that's when I ended up back in Europe. I actually went back to see a film, the film premiere of Backbeat, which is about the Beatles' early days in Hamburg. And I met a friend of a friend who was a line producer and he said to me, you ever been to Monaco before? And I said, no. And he said, do you like the Grand Prix? Do you like Grand Prix? I said, I don't really care one way or the other. He said, well, what are you doing this weekend? I said, well, I'm going back to LA to be numb. Why?

• 31:34Speaker 04

  He said, well, listen, you know, I've got a spare room, apartment down in Monaco. I know everybody, been living there for years. Why don't you come down? I'll take care of you, you know, da di da di da. So we go down and I find myself on the very famous Rascasse Corner, which is where they come shooting down after the tunnel, coming at you at about 180 miles an hour, while you're eating a shrimp cocktail and all you've got is chicken wire fencing between you and the car. And I'm going, this is great, you know? So I spent the summer there and I, again, it was one of those moments I had one of the best times of my life. And I just, I had a little bungalow up on Mulholland and Coldwater.

• 32:16Speaker 04

  And I had a caretaker and I just said, pack up the house, I'm not coming back. And I just lived in what I call a Miami Vice apartment in Monaco, which was just this bare room that was kind of white marble and mirrors. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With, with a little TV on a chest, a trunk, a couch from the floor in Habitat, a mattress on the floor. And I lived like that for a couple of years until I figured out what I was doing again.

• 32:45Alec Baldwin?

  And you're still there.

• 32:46Speaker 04

  I, I, yeah. How many years later? I'm actually, well, the thing was, I didn't become a resident at that point in time. You don't live in Monaco. So I do now. Right. I became a resident, yeah, and I work with Prince Albert and his foundation with White Feather as well. We've, we're looking at a few projects, so, but yeah, I find it, I just, it's a, listen, it's a beautiful location. Italy's 20 minutes away, you know, and I love Italy because of my Italian stepfather, Roberto Bassanini. And, you know, France is beautiful too. Spain's just down the road. For me, location, location, location. It's just, and I'm a biker now, still, so whether it's in a convertible little Mini. You're a lapsed biker, as the Catholics say. Is that what they say? You're a lapsed biker. So, yeah.

• 33:31Speaker 04

  You've come back. So, yeah, when I have time, I get on the bike and I go. And that countryside throughout Europe is just jaw dropping and I, you know, forever in love with that.

• 33:45Alec Baldwin?

  Julian Lennon. If you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend and be sure to follow Here's the Thing on the iHeart Radio app, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back, the story of the real life princess on the cover of Julian Lennon's new photography book, Life's Fragile Moments.

• 34:15Speaker 02

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• 35:57Alec Baldwin?

  I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Over the past two decades, Julian Lennon has amassed an impressive portfolio of work behind the camera. Looking through his recent book of photography, I was so moved by the images he captured. I was curious about when he first began pursuing photography and what inspired him to start taking it seriously as an art form.

• 36:22Speaker 04

  When I actually came to see Dad when I was about 11 again, and maybe even earlier than that, he had this camera called the Polaroid SX70 Lamb camera, the ones that flipped up, the folded. And I loved those. I was just fascinated, more so because of the instant gratification of having the pictures come alive right in front of you.

• 36:45Alec Baldwin?

  Like it is now.

• 36:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, so I tried being a real photographer with film, but I made mistakes all the time and screwed the film up and blah. So I kind of gave it a rest until digital photography really came into play. And then when when it did, I vowed to myself, I said, well, what I would like to do, and I'm self taught all the way down the line, music, photography, whatever documentaries, you know, children's books, you know, I just want to do the best that I can do. And so I challenged myself to try to make the digital photography as good as film photography. And what happened was, I did an exhibition in Amsterdam, ten years ago, maybe,

• 37:30Speaker 04

  where it was all Brit pop kind of thing, couple of photographers and musicians doing this exhibition. And I was cornered by this elderly American photography critic. And I'm quite shy and quite reserved most of the time. And and I can be quite shut off. And she had me in the corner, I couldn't get out. And I said, yes, okay. And I was trying to be as polite as possible. And then at the very end of it, she said, so, tell me, do you shoot with film or is it digital? And I went, you tell me. And and that was it. That's when I went, all right, I'm doing a good job. And I'm I'm I think I'm doing a good job from. And that's when I just went, yeah, all right.

• 38:13Speaker 04

  But how a lot of this came about was when I went on journeys on behalf of the White Feather Foundation to Ethiopia with, say, Charity Water, Scott Harrison, Charity Water, who are an incredible organization. I think they provided more fresh water to people worldwide than any other. He invited me to go along to Ethiopia and I, it was my first trip to Africa and it was mind blowing. And so I thought, you know, take my camera along, you know, just purely as a point of of cataloguing and making note of the moments and times I was going through, not as a professional photographer by any means.

• 38:56Speaker 04

  That same trip, I'd gone to Kenya to schools and health clinics and a few other things like that. That's where a lot of the White Feather stuff was born out of visiting these places, trying to help these places.

• 39:08Alec Baldwin?

  That's very important to you, that organization, right?

• 39:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. So anyway, I started taking a lot of pictures of all of that stuff. And then when I had a few moments back at home, I'd put them on a big screen and I'd start looking at stuff. And I'd go, well, this is really quite beautiful or quite poignant or quite, you know, deep and dark. And, you know, maybe people should see some of this stuff, you know, or even the happier stuff or just the landscapes, you know. And so I started just editing that kind of stuff and putting it all together into these little collections. And so that's how that kind of began. But on the other side, there's another side to it too, which is when I used to go on the road and do world tours and all that.

• 39:52Speaker 04

  You know, back in the day on T W A, um, and the big old Boeing seven four sevens, you know, you used to, and we're talking forty years ago or whenever, you know, you'd, they'd have a projector of one film. If you were lucky and then you have a bite to eat and go to sleep on these long haul flights. And I, I could never go to sleep, so I'd always be staring out the window. And I just became fascinated with clouds. I mean, the first, my first exhibition was initially just going to be clouds. Because I fell in love with them. I fell in love with the shape, the color, their form, sunset, sunrise. And it, it became a moment where I'd look out the window and I'd go, I'd, I'd, I'd rather think of nothing at all.

• 40:34Speaker 04

  Just empty my mind and just be in the moment. Or I'd think about everything. And I just noticed that the clouds only lasted a moment. Or the light or the shape only lasted a moment. So it was all fleeting, really fleeting. And so I started relating that to my life and what was going on and everything else. And so that's what became important about photography for me. It's just trying to catch those moments that are not set up, that are not lit properly, that are not, you know, and there you go.

• 41:06Alec Baldwin?

  I love these pictures.

• 41:07Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 41:08Alec Baldwin?

  And I'm a photography. Freak, I love books of photographs, but not a lot.

• 41:13Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 41:13Alec Baldwin?

  Some, but not a lot.

• 41:15Speaker 04

  Well, I certainly take that very kindly, sir. That's Charlene Whitstock, who became Princess Charlene of Monaco.

• 41:22Alec Baldwin?

  Really?

• 41:23Speaker 04

  That was 10 minutes before she was getting married. There's a whole story behind that, don't you?

• 41:27Alec Baldwin?

  Go tell me.

• 41:28Speaker 04

  Okay, all right. So, mutual friend calls me up the day before the wedding and goes, "Listen, Charlene likes your photographs. I'd met her once or twice and she just liked what I did. She said, he said, uh, she wants you to come and shoot just before the, you know, behind the scenes before she gets married tomorrow." I'm going, "Really? You, not my kind of thing, really. I didn't really know what I was in for." So I say, "Okay, all right, I'll do it. I'll break through the fear, go." So, there was about three or four security checkpoints to get in. That was a nightmare to start with. Then I finally get to the hotel where she is. She's got all her friends dancing around like lunatics.

• 42:08Alec Baldwin?

  How many in your entourage there shooting?

• 42:11Speaker 04

  Just you? Me, Cam, backpack, backpack. I, I arrive at the hotel before I see them and I'm in the lobby, just there with my little backpack. And in walks, you know, Patrick de Marchelier with the hotel trolleys, with equipment after equipment. And I'm going, "I'm screwed. I go, "What, what the, how am I gonna even?" Anyway, so I go in. I'm the only one allowed in the inner sanctum, which is great. So, I'm in a room, probably about the size of the studio. She's in front of the mirror. You've got the hairdresser, the hairdresser's assistants, the assistants' assistants, the makeup, the ma- 20 people in a tiny little room. And she's just looking forward numb, staring into the mirror. And she's going, "Jules, I don't know if I can do this."

• 42:54Speaker 04

  And I'm going, "What are you talking about?" And she said, "No, I can't, I can't do these photographs. I don't think..." I said, "I'm here." I said, "Listen, I'm really, this is a, this is historic. This is a, you're going to become a princess. For me too, this is a magical moment to capture." I said, "Listen, I don't know what I'm gonna get. Not a bloody clue, but at least I'll be a fly on the wall. I'll be out of everybody's way. We've only got eight minutes left, literally." And so I shoot as much as I can. I don't even know what I'm getting, not getting, you know, nothing. I, I don't have a clue. I get a message from vogue.com. They want a picture from de Machere, they want a picture from me to go online immediately after she's wedded.

• 43:39Speaker 04

  And so I go back to my place, put all the pictures up on a screen, and I look at them and I go, I've got nothing. I've got nothing. This looks like crap. It looks like shit. The one thing Vogue said, we want to see her smiling. I had two pictures with her smiling. One of them was the one you pointed out. But the one thing that she said to me before the shooting was that, by the way, whatever you do, do not have a picture of me with cigarette or alcohol in my hand. And I'm going, and I find that, that one picture that you pointed out, and I'm going, oh, here we go, I'm screwed. Now, I'm not a Photoshop kind

• 44:22Speaker 04

  of guy, but I managed to remove the cigarette. And I'm looking at the picture going, well, how am I going to deal with the, with the champagne? And I think, okay, with every collection I do, it has its own version of a desaturation. So it's never black and white. As you know, people say that's black and white. No, it's not. It's a level of desaturation that I choose and I work and tones.

• 44:44Alec Baldwin?

  You can see there's gold kind of.

• 44:46Speaker 04

  So first I convert the picture to black, desaturate it to a close to black and white. And then I crop it a little differently. And I look at it and I go, oh my God, Princess Grace. You know, the 30s, 40s, 50s, black and white, classic, high contrast, da, da, da, edited in such a way like, you know, like a Time magazine or, or Life magazine, you know, photo shoot. And so I began to crop all of the pictures like that. And that was my saving grace. It changed everything. And now that I'm, they're probably some of

• 45:21Speaker 04

  Most favorite pictures of anybody that I've shot. And the fact that she let me have the cover of her with that last glimpse of her looking at herself before the wedding on the front of the of the book. I'm forever thankful for that. One of the really important things that happened to me in my relationship with photography and the images was that I would I would have people write to me, which I really didn't consider or think about earlier at all, was that you'd have people that couldn't financially afford to travel the world or go anywhere, couldn't or were disabled and couldn't travel the world or go anywhere. And what they had all said to me is that you bring these stories to us.

• 46:05Speaker 04

  You bring the truth, you bring life to us of cultures that we would never necessarily know anything about. You do it in such a way without an agenda, without just laying it on, just putting it in front and showing you what is, what exists. Take people to the world that they can't see. What is real. Yeah, exactly. They can't afford it all the time. And I tried to do that in music as well. I tried to do the same thing. But photography really does allow me to do that. I have empathy for people on the other side of the world that you'll never ever meet, but you'll you'll at least have some understanding of what their life is and what they went through or are still going through.

• 46:48Alec Baldwin?

  My thanks to musician, photographer, and philanthropist Julian Lennon. You can learn more about his humanitarian work at whitefeatherfoundation.com. His photography book, Life's Fragile Moments, is now available for purchase, and his most recent album, Jude, is streaming on Spotify, Apple Music, iTunes, Amazon, and YouTube. This episode was recorded at CDM Studios in New York City. We're produced by Kathleen Russo, Zach McNeese, and Victoria DeMartin. Our engineer is Frank Imperial. Our social media manager is Danielle Gingrich. Here's the thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio.

• 47:36Alec Baldwin?

  This is Colin Cowherd from the Colin Cowherd Podcast. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. All starts with a great deal on an off-road ready Tacoma or a half-ton Tundra to a Toyota's most capable and longest

• 47:51Speaker 06

  Built on a reputation for quality and reliability, Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. For a great deal today to a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com. Toyota, let's go places. OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts

• 48:36Speaker 06

  subject to lender approval. Hey, I'm Niall Rogers. This fall, I'll be driving across the country, meeting some of today's coolest and most fascinating artists. We'll explore the stories before the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the moment where it all began. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 49:09Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.