Pod Insights Let's Talk About Myths, Baby! | Greek Mythology & the Ancient Mediterranean RE-AIR: All I Really Want Is To Talk About the Fire-Breathing Goat… Bellerophon, Pegasus, and the Chimera About this episode Today's re-aired episode is PURE DELIGHTFUL NONSENSE! This episode originally aired in Jul 2023...
Diving deeper into the story of Bellerophon, the perpetually forgotten hero who defeated the absolutely magnificent Chimera (and was the only hero to actually ride Pegasus!). Help keep LTAMB going by subscribing to Liv's Patreon for bonus content! http://www.patreon.com/mythsbaby
CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. Given it's fiction, and typically involves gods and/or monsters, I'm not as deferential as I would be were I referencing the real thing.
Sources: Theoi entries on Bellerophon https://www.theoi.com/Heros/Bellerophontes.html; ToposText entries on Bellerophon https://topostext.org/people/807, Pegasus https://topostext.org/people/1116, and the Chimera https://topostext.org/people/1239. Quote from Palaephatus, translated by John Brady Kiesling is from Topos Text https://topostext.org/work/808#28. Early Greek Myths by Timothy Gantz.
Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here: mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions http://mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions.
Learn more about Liv's next group trips https://travelbugxlivalbert.my.canva.site/ to GREECE! Application deadline is November 30 (Subject to change due to demand).
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Liv Albert? Hey nerds, really quick note from me. I want to tell you that we now have the applications open for the next set of listener group trips. This is us going back to the original, the trips that we have held in the past that have been so much fun, so successful, and pretty affordable in terms of wandering around Greece with a bunch of nerds. So check out the details and get your applications in at mythsbaby.com/groups.
0:42 Speaker 01 This is the story of the one. As a shipping manager, he's running the dock, stocking supplies, and making sure every order goes out on time. And Granger helps him stay prepared. From shipping supplies to PPE to hand tools, he counts on Granger to keep products moving and trucks rolling. So his operation runs smoothly, no matter the shift. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click Granger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done.
1:12 Speaker 02 Still waiting in line? Again? That's time you'll never get back. Save time and money with stamps.com. Over four million businesses have skipped the line with stamps.com. Join them to save up to 90% off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail, and packages in seconds. Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to stamps.com and use code PODCAST for a free welcome gift. Taxes and fees apply.
1:53 Liv Albert? Echidna was the mother of Chimera, who breathed raging fire. A creature fearful, great, swift-footed and strong, who had three heads, one of a grim-eyed lion, in her hindern part, a draken. And in her middle, a goat, breathing forth a fearful blast of blazing fire. Her did Pegasus and noble Bellerophonnes slay.
2:50 Liv Albert? Oh, hello there. This is Let's Talk About Myths, baby, and I am your host. She who loves the chimera more than any other Greek monster because fire-breathing goat-head, Liv. Lately, I've been looking really closely at like, what myths and plays that I still have to cover on the show, and equally closely at myths that are detailed and important, and also just like, fucking, super fun, um, that I may have already told, you know, in the very early days of the podcast, before I had such a handle on ancient sourcing and nuance and history and the like. I know they say this a lot, but I was thinking about it again. There aren't a lot of like, explicit mythological stories that I haven't already
3:33 Liv Albert? covered on the show. I've been doing this a while. There are lots of plays still to go, lots of characters still to examine, but in terms of detailed myths, well, I've covered most, if not all of them, which means revisiting others that I know I can do better, that I know I can share more details about, and frankly, sometimes it means revisiting stories that I just, that I just really want to tell again. For me, this is one of those.
4:06 Liv Albert? I've been calling this guy Belly Boy in my head for the last two days.
4:13 Liv Albert? I've been really struggling with my ADHD lately, and unfortunately, my brain really has trouble with episodes where I have to pull stories from nothing, or pull details from, you know, like, I don't know, a bazillion different sources that all say different things and none of it is a story, whatever. Like, I, I love those episodes. I find them fascinating. But when they're a weekly occurrence, it means I have a hell of a lot of trouble keeping up, just making sure I'm doing it quickly enough and that I still have time to, like, you know, also enjoy my life and work on other projects. And they're just not as fun for me. I find them rewarding and I like them, but they're not fun. But sometimes I need fun for my ADHD dopamine lacking brain. So after covering the fascinating eastern
4:57 Liv Albert? origins of Aphrodite and even her time with Adonis, both of which are prime examples of the episode types that I struggle with, I wanted something that was just seriously fucking fun. Enter the Leraphon. Now, I originally told this story back in, like, I want to say 2018, so, you know, some time ago. Even back then, I framed the story as the forgotten hero of Greek myth, and it's still so damn true. He deserved his own episode back then, and he deserves another one now. Plus, you know, there's a fucking monster with a fire-breathing goat sprouting off of its back. So again, this episode is for me. It's for my struggling ADHD. It's
5:42 Liv Albert? for my desire to enjoy my summer without working every moment of the day, and it's for my fucking obsession with the bizarre monstrosity that is the chimera.
6:06 Liv Albert? This is episode 221. All I really want is to talk about the fire-breathing goat. Bellerophon, Pegasus, and the Chimera.
6:30 Liv Albert? The quote that I write at the top of this episode is from Hesiod's Theogony. It's where we get my favorite detail about the Chimera. That she had a goat's head protruding off of her lion's back, and that it breathed fucking fire.
6:46 Liv Albert? But I'm getting ahead of myself because I love the Chimera too damn much. First, we have to talk about a king of Corinth named Glaucus and a young woman from the royal house of Athens, Euryneme. Euryneme caught the eye of Glaucus and, as men of Greek myth are wont to do, he immediately determined that he just wanted to. He had to marry her. So unlike many of men of Greek myth, he actually looked at wooing her himself, putting in the work to show Euryneme that he could be the husband that she wanted and deserved. Euryneme, it seems, was also seriously lovely. She'd been taught crafts by Athena herself, and Hesiod even talks about how fucking great she smelled.
7:32 Liv Albert? He tells us that, quote, "A marvelous scent rose from her silver raiment as she moved, and beauty was wafted from her eyes."
7:44 Liv Albert? Interesting ways of describing how impressive she is, certainly. Like, talking about the smell of her clothes and beauty wafting from her eyes? I mean, still, the point remains: she was awesome, and Glaucus wanted her.
7:58 Liv Albert? With the help of Athena, he set out to impress her, like every modern woman wants to be impressed. He drove oxen for her. Fucking sexy, I know. You've gotta love a man who can drive some fucking oxen.
8:15 Liv Albert? Well, for all Glaukis was seriously impressive in driving his oxen, Zeus wasn't having any of it. See, Glaukis was related to a certain man that Zeus wasn't particularly fond of, Sisyphus. Glaukis was Sisyphus's son, and he had angered Zeus so completely that Zeus was fully ready to take out his lasting fury on Sisyphus's children. Sisyphus, plural or possessive, is not an easy word to say. And yes, being reminded of this, it did give me the idea to talk about Sisyphus again in more detail, and the punishments in Tartarus generally, but for obvious reasons, that's coming in October. Today, we want to know his, his son, who's angered Zeus just by the very nature of being Sisyphus's
9:00 Liv Albert? son. When Zeus saw that Glaukis was interested in marrying Euryneemi, he determined that Glaukis would never be permitted to have a child with only one father, which I know doesn't actually make any genetic or biological sense, we have to go with it. You'll understand the intent in just a moment. The point is that Zeus was going to ensure that any son of Glaukis was, well, not really a son of Glaukis. And it started immediately. Immediately after Euryneemi and Glaukis married, because of course, she was so fucking down for the man who was so talented at driving those oxen.
9:42 Liv Albert? Immediately after they married and, and went to, one imagines, you know, making babies, Euryneemi was, was also with Poseidon. Not Zeus, shocking, but Poseidon. And surprise, surprise, that encounter led her to becoming pregnant with a baby boy that she and Glaukis named Bellerophon. Kind of, but we'll get there.
10:08 Liv Albert? Now gods, we all know Poseidon's MO, but we also know how I personally feel about that particular god, and I'm biased as all hell. So I'm just gonna go ahead and make the educated guess that this encounter between Eurydice and Poseidon probably wasn't necessarily, you know, like sought after by Eurydice. The minimal details we have are from Hesiod, and gods only know, he doesn't ever weigh in on whether or not the woman was interested in the god's advances. But beyond Hesiod, we hear only that Poseidon is indeed the biological father of Bellerophon. But like the other heroes with divine daddies, he's also referred to as the son of Glaucus, which just links back to Zeus's little curse
10:50 Liv Albert? on that king of Corinth. Regardless of what we are to understand about his origins, Bellerophon has been born to Eurydice, and this makes him a prince of Corinth. As to his name, some sources will tell you that the name Bellerophon actually means Slayer of Beleros. And this has often been interpreted to mean that, like, well, he killed somebody named Beleros and took the name from there, having had another name that he was born with. That's not impossible, but you see, the name apparently could also be derived from something more like wielder of missiles, which fits just as well, if not better, because
11:31 Liv Albert? spoilies, he's gonna wield a missile. My boy Bellerophon is most famous for killing the chimera, off in Lycia, modern Turkey, Anatolia. But how he got to that point in his life is debated. Some say he killed a man and was sent off in punishment, that that man was even his brother, or, you know, named Beleros. Others have a whole different story, and the other in question here is Homer. So gods know, we're gonna go with his version for the storytelling of it all. And in Homer, he doesn't kill anyone. There's
12:11 Liv Albert? just this moment in the Iliad where Bellerophon's grandson, a king of Lycia, named for his ancestor Glaucus, he's there to help the Trojans, and he's telling Diomedes, the Greek, the story of his grandfather Bellerophon.
12:28 Liv Albert? And yes, all of this story appears to happen mid-battle. Because of course it does, this is a Trojan, or on the Trojan side, talking to, uh, on the Greek side. But about like his family history. Glauca tells Diomedes, in between stabbing at him with a spear, maybe, one can only imagine, that Bellerophon was born blameless, that his greatness was without question, that the gods granted him, quote, "beauty and desirable manhood." I take this to mean that he was a sexy, sexy man. Only a sexy hero could defeat the chimera. But before that, he's got some shit to go through.
13:11 Liv Albert? You see, in Homer's version, Bellerophon was, was living alongside a man named Pritus, and that man had a wife named Antia. Or maybe she was named Stenobia? We'll call her Antia for the sake of simplicity. And again, there are other takes on the, the why that Bellerophon was with these people. Sometimes it's said that, again, he accidentally murdered someone, and that's why he ended up with Pritus and Antia. That he'd fled there for purification, you know, the typical mythological response to murder, just going somewhere else and having them tell you that it's okay? I mean, fine, there is a bit more to it, but that is the gist. And maybe, you know, the person he accidentally killed was even his brother, like I said,
13:56 Liv Albert? or, you know, a guy named Boleros. But everyone's got a different reason for why Bellerophon was there. But the point is, that he was.
14:07 Liv Albert? And, well, Antia, it seems, took a liking to Bellerophon. Because again, he was sexy as shit, the gods made it so. But he was also so-called blameless? And so when Antia came on to him, he wasn't interested. She was married, he was virtuous. It was a big no-no for Bellerophon, but Antia, well, she didn't like to be rejected like that. She's got some Phaedra and Hippolytus vibes here, ugh. And we're told that she went to her husband and told him that Bellerophon had raped her, that he should kill the man for what he'd done.
14:48 Liv Albert? Now for obvious reasons, I truly loathe stories with false rape accusations. This is myth, though, and for all I like to make assumptions about the actions of Poseidon, it seems only fair to also float the idea that maybe, at least according to some people who heard or told this story, like, maybe it wasn't a false accusation. I would like to allow space for ancient people who might have seen it that way, but for the sake of Bellerophon and his story, we're sticking to the text that we have. And according to that, it was false. "And Antia's husband was horrified, furious that Bellerophon would do something so treacherous and disgusting." I mean, good for him for being mad. But, well, he wasn't actually up for killing Bellerophon himself.
15:34 Liv Albert? Is this because he feared retribution from the gods? Maybe? Or was he just pretty fucking sure that he couldn't defeat a guy like Bellerophon? Also very possible. For the sake of the story, though, he sought to kill Bellerophon in a very creative way. "He handed Bellerophon a tablet and told him to travel to Lysia, where Antia was from, to visit her father, Iobates, who ruled there." Bellerophon looked at the tablet that Pritus had sent with him, but it looked like nonsense to him, just a few odd symbols inscribbled on the tablet. Nothing he recognized. So he thought nothing of it.
16:16 Liv Albert? He travels with a small convoy, and with the help of the gods, he gets to Lysia, where he was welcomed by the lord there, Antia's father, Iobates. "The man showed him true hospitality, xenia everywhere, that sacred Hellenic rite of the guest-host relationship. It was a warm welcome. They feasted for nine days, celebrated every evening. It sounded awesome. Fun times with lots of food, music, just a great time all around."
16:49 Liv Albert? After those nine days had passed, though, as this translation by Latimer explains, "When the rose fingers of the tenth dawn showed..." I just love dawn and every way they phrase it. The man hosting Bellerophon, this king, Iobates, finally opened the visit up to questions. He asked Bellerophon if his son-in-law, Pritus, had sent him with anything, any news or a message, you know, for him. "Ah, of course," Bellerophon realized when he was asked. "It's funny you say so. I happen to have a nice bit of tablet with some nonsense inscribbled upon it." And with that, he just handed Iobates the tablet.
17:31 Liv Albert? And, well, as you might have guessed, there were more than just inscribbles on this tablet. There were symbols that were nonsense to Bellerophon, but to Pritus's father-in-law, they were very clear. A request to kill, or have killed, Bellerophon. Dun dun dun.
18:18 Liv Albert? I don't know what I'm on in this episode, but I'm here for it. That damned tablet was coming back to bite Bellerophon right on his apparently beautiful and blameless ass. Iobates has received the tablet from Bellerophon with those goddamned inscribbled symbols that told him that Pritus, his son-in-law, what he wants. For Bellerophon not to return to Corinth, he wants Bellerophon dead. But just like his son-in-law, Iobates seems not willing to try to kill Bellerophon himself. This is a running theme with heroes, of course, and certainly a running theme with Bellerophon. We're not finished with it.
19:01 Liv Albert? The men who wish them dead aren't willing to try to do the job themselves. They all know they'd fail. So Iobates goes about attempting to have Bellerophon killed in the now oh-so-familiar way.
19:18 Liv Albert? Just like Polydectes sent Perseus to kill the Gorgon Medusa in an attempt to kill him off, just like Eurystheus had Heracles go off and complete his twelve labors in, well, twelve attempts to have the hero killed, Iobates sends Bellerophon off on a quest to kill the local monster, the resident child of Echidna, the Chimera.
19:45 Liv Albert? Which means it's now my time to shine. As if the rest of this episode hasn't been. My time to regale you with the details on my all-time favorite Greek mythological monster, she who rules the plains of Lysia, causing trouble and fire in her wake, the fucking Chimera. Why is the Chimera so magnificent, you ask? Gods, that you even have to ask has me questioning all of your virtues, but fine, now let me tell you. There are so many monsters of Greek myth, and sure, they are all wonderful and weird in their own unique ways, but how many of them include fire-breathing goat heads? Exactly, just one.
20:31 Liv Albert? Not only does the Chimera appeal to every kind of monster that you might want, like big scary cat, check, angry serpent, check, furious fire-breathing head of an animal that otherwise should be harmless and silly, fucking check.
20:46 Liv Albert? Again, gods, I'm having fun with this episode, this is everything my weird and neurodivergent brain needed?
20:53 Liv Albert? Let me tell you more about my good friend, the Chimera. Firstly, for all the descriptions of ancient Greek monsters, for all they love to vary across the sources, you know, be weirder in some than others, get blown out of proportion in later sources, the Chimera has stayed true to her origins. Or rather, her origins were true to her.
21:19 Liv Albert? See, both Hesiod and Homer agree on the key pieces of the Chimera, and that alone thrills me to no end. Those two sources like rarely agree on things. They're in the vague realm of like contemporary with each other, but they're often vastly different because they're two archaic sources that would go on to influence like basically all the sources that we have, but they're they're often why things don't line up later on. But here with the Chimera, oh, here they can both agree very plainly.
21:51 Liv Albert? "The Chimera was an enormous creature that might, for just a brief moment, appear like a lion." Sure, first glance, yeah, that's a huge and scary lion. I mean, isn't that enough to get your blood moving? Enough to make a hero's defeat of it pretty damn impressive? I mean, Heracles got famous for killing just a lion. But then, oh, the Chimera is so much more than the Nemean lion. You think you're looking at a terrifying lion and then gods, like what's that thing on its tail? The lion's tail swishes into view and you think, fuck, is that a snake eating its tail maybe? Or just like a snake just hanging out with a lion like unlikely friends?
22:33 Liv Albert? No, its tail is the snake and gods is that snake angry? Fuck, that's enough to really get the fear moving. Anyone would be peeing themselves seeing something like that. But then, it's not finished scaring the living daylights out of you. No, it's not. A furious, growling, echoing "bah" erupts from, that's right, the angry, fire-breathing goat's head that's protruding from the Chimera's back. And that's when most people would just drop dead in fear, right there. I mean, it's got three heads, they're all different, they're all scary,
23:16 Liv Albert? they're all angry as hell, and find one is a goat, which you might think for just a split second might actually be reassuring? I mean, it's a goat, they're chill, they're harmless, they just eat grass. Not this one, it breathes fucking fire, goddammit.
23:34 Liv Albert? And if you think I didn't go and find the description of the Chimera from Homer in four different translations, just for the sake of it, then you don't know me at all. Richard Latimore translates my favorite monster as, quote, "A thing of immortal make, not human, lion-fronted and snake behind, a goat in the middle and snorting out the breath of the terrible flame of bright fire." Samuel Butler, a half a century earlier, speaks of my monstrous friend as, quote, "Savage monster, the Chimera, who was not a human being but a goddess, for she had the head
24:15 Liv Albert? of a lion and the tail of a serpent, while her body was that of a goat, and she breathed forth flames of fire." And then around the same time, the poet Alexander Pope translated it in rhyming verse as, quote, "A mingled monster of no mortal kind. Behind, a dragon's fiery tail was spread, a goat's rough body bore a lion's head, her pitchy nostrils flaky flames expire, her gaping throat emits infernal fire." And finally, in the most recent translation that I've got, Caroline Alexander goes with
24:57 Liv Albert? this beautiful translation of the beautiful beast, quote, "The invincible Chimera, a thing of divine origin, not of men, a lion in front, its hind part a serpent, and its middle a goat, breathing forth a fearsome, raging blaze of fire." (sigh) I... But for all that Hesiod and Homer agree on the most important aspects of the story, that the Chimera had a fire-breathing goat's head on her back, they do not agree on the second most important creature in Belarifon's story: Pegasus.
25:55 Speaker 01 This is the story of the one. As a shipping manager, he's running the dock, stocking supplies, and making sure every order goes out on time. And Granger helps him stay prepared. From shipping supplies, to PPE, to hand tools, he counts on Granger to keep products moving and trucks rolling. So his operation runs smoothly, no matter the shift. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click Granger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done.
26:26 Speaker 02 Shipping, billing, admin, payroll, marketing. You're managing all the things, so why waste time sending important documents the old-fashioned way? Mail and ship when you want, how you want, with Stamps.com. Print postage on-demand 24/7, and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to 90% with automated rate shopping. That's why over 1 million small businesses trust Stamps.com. Go to Stamps.com and use code PODCAST to try Stamps.com risk-free for 60 days.
26:56 Speaker 03 Welcome to 215 Maple Drive. We just put this property on the market. Love the crown molding. Oh, wait until you see the walk-in closets and the bathroom tile. Does it have Verizon FiOS? You know, 100% fiber internet? No FiOS, but it looks like it's got cable. Let's check out the kitchen. No FiOS? Yeah, no thank you. Don't you want to see the rest? Okay, bye-bye.
27:21 Speaker 04 Get Verizon FiOS, because when you're moving, it's 100% or nothing.
27:41 Liv Albert? I said this when I first told you all the story of Bellerophon, and I will say it again. If there are any two male characters from Greek myth who have been most wronged by modern reception, it is these two. Pegasus gets his due in reception. Sure, who doesn't love the tiny boy in Disney's Hercules? But where is poor Bellerophon? And why is Pegasus always shown being ridden by Perseus? Often while he goes off to kill Medusa, a physical impossibility. These two just never get their stories told right. But hey, that's why I'm here. Hesiod, you see, tells us that Bellerophon was riding Pegasus when he went to kill the chimera.
28:25 Liv Albert? He even gives Pegasus credit in helping Bellerophon do it. But Homer makes no mention of everyone's favorite flying horse. Rude. Instead, we have to turn to the poet Pindar for the story of how Bellerophon came to ride Pegasus, that child of Poseidon and Medusa, born only when Medusa's head was severed from her body.
28:50 Liv Albert? Pindar tells us that Bellerophon just kind of stumbled upon Pegasus one day? Well, there are other flying horses in Greek myth, because remember, and this is important, and it's a hill I will die on.
29:04 Liv Albert? Pegasus is his name? It does not refer to more than one flying horse. It is not a breed when it cannot have multiple Pegasus, despite what countless pop culture references of today might lead you to believe. It's one nice horse with wings, his name is Pegasus.
29:22 Liv Albert? So we're flashing back to before Bellerophon ever went to Lysia and met up with Iobates, and he's wandering Corinth, he's at the spring of Pirinee, and there he sees this particularly impressive flying horse, the only flying horse who really even could be tamed, because the others are very explicitly just used to pull divine chariots. That's what makes Pegasus so special. Bellerophon was immediately obsessed with the idea of saddling up this beautiful boy that is Pegasus. But well, Pegasus had other plans. He's not one to be tamed. He's the son of fucking Medusa, after all. And the bonus is that does make him and Bellerophon half-brothers.
30:07 Liv Albert? Fucking adorable. So Bellerophon is lusting after Pegasus in a distinctly non-sexual way, but he can't figure out how to handle such an incredible creature.
30:19 Liv Albert? Enter Athena. Athena has a real thing for helping heroes, we all know that. So, when she learns that Bellerophon is after Pegasus and having trouble with it, she's there to help. She brings Bellerophon a bridle, and apparently a golden headband, and tells him that he needs to offer Daddy Poseidon the sacrifice of a snow-white bull, and show him the bridle that she's just given him. And between those two offerings, Daddy Poseidon will help him tame Pegasus.
30:55 Liv Albert? Bellerophon did as he was told, and lo and behold, it worked! He was able to get the bridle on Pegasus, and its magic acted immediately, calming the beautiful winged horse and allowing Bellerophon to mount him up and fly off into the sunset. Or rather, wherever it was that Bellerophon was headed at the time, because this would've happened all before he went to Lycia, like I said. And thus, with the origins of his friendship with Pegasus out of the way, we return to Bellerophon's new quest in the east: Defeat the Chimera, or Die Trying.
31:33 Liv Albert? Now, exactly how Bellerophon went about killing the Chimera is not well detailed. Frankly, it infuriates and saddens me how little we know about my goat-headed friend's actual behavior, let alone her death. Instead, we have lines from Homer that say, quote, "He killed the Chimera, obeying the portents of the immortals." Except Homer, dude, what were the portents? And like, that is literally all the Iliad has to say about it? Not even a full sentence. Meanwhile, Hesiod isn't any better. He says of the Chimera, quote, "Her did Pegasus and noble Bellerophon slay." Like, helpful, dude.
32:14 Liv Albert? Another Hesiod fragment adds that Bellerophon and Pegasus caught her in some way? Like, that's helpful, I guess, maybe? Pindar says simply that he felled her. Even worse. But fortunately, for once, we actually get to say that it's pseudo Apollodorus who gives us the most detailed account of Bellerophon's defeat of the Chimera. And, well, that really says more about the other sources than it does Apollodorus.
32:43 Liv Albert? It's here we learn that when Niobates asked Bellerophon to kill the chimera, to rid his lands of the creature's violence and bloodshed and fiery goat breath, Bellerophon mounted his boy Pegasus and off they flew in search of she who breathes fire out of her goat head. He and Pegasus flew off into Lysia until they spotted our girl, the chimera. I can only imagine, she wasn't hard to spot, what with that fire and devastation that she'd leave in her wake, not to mention, well, you know, an enormous lion with a snake tail and goat's head sprouting off its back, just breathing fire like nobody's business would certainly catch one's eye, even from on high.
33:24 Liv Albert? And when they found her, Bellerophon used Pegasus to his advantage. They flew over her, managing to avoid the fire, breathing forth from the goat with an angry baa.
33:36 Liv Albert? I'm sorry. Using that strategy, it wasn't all that hard to finally do it, to defeat and kill my precious chimera. Apollodorus says that Bellerophon, using his bow and arrows from the back of Pegasus, takes her out.
33:55 Liv Albert? Though we have few to no details on the how of it all, Bellerophon and Pegasus do indeed defeat the magnificent chimera. I'm trying not to be too sad about that fact, I recognize she was a hint dangerous to the locals, whatever. Regardless, they do defeat her, they kill her, whether he uses a bow and arrow or a spear from above, it's done. And that defeat might be the very missile which could define his name, like I said earlier. And yet, where Bellerophon's life takes him after the defeat of the chimera, isn't clear at all, I don't know why I said "and yet", this whole thing isn't clear and yet I love it anyway. Many sources say that either before or after this defeat, he goes on to battle the Amazons,
34:40 Liv Albert? or slaughters them is the term that Homer uses, which, you know, a little less ideal because we do love the Amazons. And then he battles a group called the Salimi, a group of Lycian people that I can't find much information on. But, at least as Homer saw it, when Bellerophon returned to Niobates, having defeated the chimera, just as he'd asked. Iobates tried, once again, to have Bellerophon handled. He called upon all the best warriors of his kingdom and used them to lay a trap for Bellerophon, who just, well, killed them all, and that's all we know. And again, we have Bellerophon being called "blameless",
35:23 Liv Albert? which I just find to be really specific and odd and like, kind of inaccurate. I mean, he's killing a lot of people.
35:31 Liv Albert? When Bellerophon so easily defeats the men and once more manages to avoid the death that Iobates has intended, well, that seems to convince Iobates to give up his mission to kill Bellerophon, and not only that, but he sees Bellerophon as so fucking impressive, so fucking divine, that he gives him his own daughter to marry, and then hands over half of his kingdom. Totally normal behavior, for sure.
36:14 Liv Albert? Even though Iobates's behavior after Bellerophon, you know, kills all his men, seems bizarre as all hell, it's important, because while we don't have this daughter's name, even though I think sometimes she's known as Stenobia instead of Antia,
36:28 Liv Albert? it doesn't matter, it's a different daughter of Iobates, that much we know. But we're told that this possibly unnamed woman that Bellerophon marries bears him three children: Isandros, Hippolochos, and Laudamia. And it's Laudamia who, later, catches the eye of none other than Zeus and becomes the mother of Sarpedon, one of the most famous warriors of the Trojan War. As for poor Bellerophon's fate, well, it's also uncertain, but never good. Homer says that, for reasons he doesn't explain, Bellerophon is hated by all the immortals, and because of that, he's just forced to wander alone? Quote, "eating his heart out, skulking aside from the trodden track of humanity."
37:16 Liv Albert? Pindar meanwhile, in one of his Olympian odes, says plainly that Bellerophon's fate is just best not even spoken of. And in one of his Ithmian odes, he says that Bellerophon, quote, "Thought to reach the abodes of heaven and share the company of Zeus, sweets gained unrightly await an end most bitter."
37:40 Liv Albert? And that is the most common fate of Bellerophon, even if it's always lacking in detail. That, for whatever reason, he tried to fly Pegasus up to Olympus itself, to the realm of the gods, and that his hubris, in thinking himself worthy of such a thing, angered the gods, and he fell from Pegasus's back, plummeting to the earth and to his death.
38:07 Liv Albert? Pegasus, though, was not blamed by the gods and was given a spot on Olympus amongst Zeus's own horses.
38:16 Liv Albert? Bellerophon is just fascinating. He both fits the typical hero narratives and then, like, doesn't at all. That he angers the gods so completely, that his death is so tragic and violent, none of it really fits with the usual, nor is it at all, like, explained in the sources that survive. Gods, I want to know what he could have done to anger the gods like that. Like, I don't think it's just the Sisyphus of it all. We have no explanations, and yet he just has this horrible, tragic end that we hear about alongside how impressive and wonderful his grandchildren were. Love it. Weird. Love it. But, we're not going to end on Bellerophon's tragic fate, his tragic fall from Olympus, because, gods, did I find
39:01 Liv Albert? something so much more fun to finish off this episode with?
39:07 Liv Albert? The work of a fine fellow by the name of Paliphatis, who, we think was from around the fourth century BCE, as he was rumored to have known Aristotle. And well, Paliphatis, you see, he wrote a work called "On Things Not to Be Believed", where he broke down certain myths and explained... I'm just gonna read it to you. This translation is by John Brady Kiesling and is used via Topos Text. I've linked to it in the episode's description. "They say that the winged horse Pegasus carried Belleraphontes. In my opinion, this horse could never be, not even if it had all the wings of the birds;
39:50 Liv Albert? for if there had ever been such an animal, there would be one now. They say it killed the Chimera of Amisodorus. The Chimera was a lion in front, a serpent behind, a chimera, a goat in the middle. Some think such a beast had three heads and one body. It is impossible for a snake, a lion, and a goat to use the same food, and naïve to think something with a mortal nature could breathe out fire; for which of the heads would the body obey? The truth is this: Belleraphontes was a man, a fugitive of Corinthian race, a gentleman. Having built a long ship, he was plundering the coastal places.
40:35 Liv Albert? The ship's name was Pegasus, as even now each ship has a name, and the name Pegasus seems to suit a ship better than a horse. King Amisodorus lived on the Xanthus River on some high mountain, from which the Telmisus, wood substance, is deposited. To this mountain there are two means of access: the one in front, from the city of the Cassanthians; the other behind, from Caria. Elsewhere the cliffs are high, and in the middle there is a great opening in the earth from which fire emerges. The name of this mountain is Chimera. Then there was, as the locals say, a lion living by the front access and a serpent by the rear.
41:19 Liv Albert? They used to injure the woodcutters and herders." Then Bellerophon came and set fire to the mountain and the Tel Missis burned up and the beasts were destroyed. The locals used to say, "Bellerophon came with the Pegasus and destroyed the Chimera of Imicodaris." From this occurrence, the myth was fabricated.
41:43 Liv Albert? So yeah, that's an ancient source breaking down all the reasons why the myth of Bellerophon, Pegasus, and the Chimera isn't actually real and what it actually was, according to this guy. Which like, there is a lot of Chimera-related stuff in Turkey and like, these weird geological things that I actually talked about in an episode on Monsters with Jasmine Elmer. If you want to listen to it, fucking incredible. Something about reading that kind of thing, like, from the ancient world. He breaks it all down in such detail. It gives such wonderful possible explanations for the story. Like, like, Pegasus sounds more like a ship if you ask me. Like, it's just the most joyful thing in the world. Obviously, I'm gonna add this guy to my go-to sourcing and share more of these denials because there are so many
42:28 Liv Albert? Chimera.
42:45 Liv Albert? Oh, nerds. Nerds, nerds. Um, thank you so much for listening. Did I start calling, like I said earlier, I dropped it in because I was too excited, but I only wrote it in the script here. I started calling Bellerophon Belly Boy aloud, um, just in my apartment, while talking, uh, to myself and writing the script. Did it give me everything my ADHD brain needed, though? Oh my god, all the dopamine I could positively ask for. I wrote this script in like, three hours. I recorded it with the happiness- Of a fucking child with candy. I don't even know. Anyway, gods, I hope you enjoyed this one as, as much as I did because it's so fun for me to revisit and dig a little
43:27 Liv Albert? deeper and also just like tell the story again and yell it all to you again. It's just fascinating to me that this myth is so incredibly underrepresented in the wider appreciation of Greek myth. Like, it is objectively fascinating. It isn't more problematic than most. It's certainly on par with many of the heroes. Gods, this man is better than Theseus, you know? He was propaganda, so fine. But, and Pegasus? Like, he's the real guy who rode Pegasus, the only guy who rode Pegasus, the realist. And of course, the most important part, the star of the show, the fire-breathing goat head that is the Chimera. The world is seriously missing out when it comes to this story. Bellerophon deserves the world. The Chimera deserves the fucking universe. Of course, a big reason for its lack of broader representation is that it doesn't really
44:11 Liv Albert? have one great go-to source for the story, like so many others. Instead, like, much of it is told in the Iliad, but then not Pegasus. He's elsewhere and he's the more famous one. So I think it all just ends up like, kind of lost in the noise. If only, though, if only we had Euripides's lost plays, because guess what? He had a play called Belleriphontes and another called Sthenobia. That's the alternate name for the woman again at the beginning, My Kingdom for a fucking time machine.
44:41 Liv Albert? I'm losing it. This is so much fun. Um, as always, we're gonna end with a five-star review. And I realize I'm gonna bring it down a little bit with this one, but like, in a good way. This one is from Kelda252 in Great Britain and says, "You got me through it. New work stresses ADHD, hyperfocuses, burnout, and coming out. Your podcast has got me through it all and has just been the perfect affirmation for my interests and appreciating my quirks, along with the wild and fascinating world of Greek myths. This is so much more than a podcast and I can't wait to see where you take it. P.S. Downloading this blasted app, recovering my Apple ID, forgetting all passwords ever, and giving it up to make a new one has taken my poor ADHD brain all evening and I only push through
45:23 Liv Albert? thinking of you and your determination to finish the Thesmophoraeusai and the Aeneid. Hats off to you, Lyth." P.P.S. I'm truly, madly, deeply not a farmer.
45:36 Liv Albert? That one made me so happy for so many reasons. One, I get it with the ADHD. That's the entire reason I, this episode exists, because my ADHD hated me and I just wanted one that I could like, love and do quickly and feel such incredible joy. And also the fact that you did that much work, like seriously, thank you. I really truly appreciate it and I'm really glad that you identified with the determination that I had to finish this before I had to sigh. And also, yeah, I'm not a farmer, not a farmer, but I do truly, madly, deeply, love the chimera. And I hope you all are listening to this and you listened to
46:16 Liv Albert? last week's Q and A episode where I explained the, the true joy that is truly, madly, deeply. I'm gonna do it all over again, just in case. For the six years of this podcast, I have been peppering in the phrase truly, madly, deeply, because I just find it silly and joyful. But for me, I'm quoting the nineties perfection that is Savage Garden, because I'm an old millennial. And then I found out last year through some listeners, that so many of you younger people have been thinking this entire time that I've been quoting One Direction,
46:58 Liv Albert? because I guess they have a song called that. And honestly, nothing has made me happier than learning that, that like my stupid phrase that's literally from like a nineties rock band that very few people care about, unless they're smart, has just like, spread and, and,
47:16 Liv Albert? I don't know, I like that it's got a Harry Styles reference in it too. Like, I like him. I've never paid attention to One Direction, I'm sorry. Anyway, for those of you who've been thinking that I have been quoting One Direction this entire time, one, thank you. You bring me so much happiness. Also, please, please go look up the Savage Garden song, Truly Madly Deeply, because it is so good. Let's talk about Myth's Baby is written and produced by me, Liv Albert, who still loves doing this show so fucking much if that's not obvious. Like, sometimes I just need one of these episodes to just like, it just like brings me all back, you know? Like, all the reasons why I do this. Michaela Smith is the Hermes to my Olympians. She's the best. She handles so many podcast-related things. God, it's just like, honestly, everything.
48:00 Liv Albert? Michaela, you're wonderful. Uh, the podcast is hosted and monetized by iHeart Media. Help me continue bringing you the world of Greek mythology and the ancient Mediterranean by becoming a patron. Where you'll get bonus episodes and more, visit patreon.com/MythsBaby or click the link in this episode's description. This was some of the most fun I've ever had, recording and writing this podcast. Thank you all so much for listening. I fucking love it here. I am Liv, and I love this shit, but mainly the fire-breathing goat head. Like, just imagine the baaah.
48:47 Speaker 01 This is the story of the one. As a shipping manager, he's running the dock, stocking supplies, and making sure every order goes out on time. And Granger helps him stay prepared. From shipping supplies to PPE to hand tools, he counts on Granger to keep products moving and trucks rolling. So his operation runs smoothly, no matter the shift. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click Granger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done.
49:17 Speaker 02 Still waiting in line? Again? That's time you'll never get back. Save time and money with Stamps.com. Over four million businesses have skipped the line with Stamps.com. Join them to save up to 90% off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail, and packages in seconds. Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to stamps.com and use code PODCAST for a free welcome gift. Taxes and fees apply.
49:49 Speaker 05 At Peloton, sometimes thinking big means thinking small. Introducing the new Peloton Tread Flex. Our first foldable and movable tread that's just about three feet stowed so you can roll it away. With an ultra-quiet and comfortable belt that whispers while you run. Made to fit however you move, and fit to move wherever you like. Let yourself run. Peloton. Explore Peloton Tread Flex at onepeloton.com.
50:59 Speaker 06 Enemy of My Dreams by Jenny Williamson is a historical romance novel set in the time of the late Roman Empire, where Alaric, a brutal Gothic warlord, and Julia, a Roman princess, with a love of good wine, team up to take down Rome.
51:17 Speaker 07 The much-awaited sequel, Game of Thieves, comes out December 8th. In this sequel, Julia and Alaric must overcome centuries of conflict to work together, or the turbulent riptides of rebellion and the demons of their past will tear them apart.
51:30 Speaker 06 And now, for a limited time, when you preorder Game of Thieves through Burning Pages Bookstore, you'll get a signed book plate and a free art print of one of Jenny's favorite spicy scenes from across the series.
51:44 Speaker 07 Get this amazing artwork only from Burning Pages at burningpagesnc.com/game-of-thieves. Don't wait! Order your copy from Burning Pages today at burningpagesnc.com/game-of-thieves.
Previous Conversations: From Mythical to Curative to Poisonous, Mythic Plants w/ Ellen Zachos Next RE-AIR: Conversations: The Things They Found in Tombs, Bronze Age Mycenae w/ Dr Kim Shelton Page updated November 1, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated