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Transcript 15,867 words · 5 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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0:27 Speaker 01 Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change, your receipt did. The sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time. Pricing participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing.
0:46 Doug DeMuro? Hello and welcome to a very special episode of This Car Pod. I'm Kenan. I'm Filippo. And today, I'm not here. I'm here, right? But I'm not... Okay, so here's the deal. I'm out this week. I'm unavailable, so we're recording this episode early. And so we're not going to have our usual segments where we have the news and all this stuff because we can't talk. So instead, we're just going to do questions. This is going to be an entire episode of questions. Good questions? They're good questions. What these questions are is questions from previous weeks that I had on my list and we just didn't have time for. So now we're going to just do them all. Wow, okay. But before that happens, I want to share with you a little surprise. Oh, man. About a month ago, two months, I don't know, I get an email from Nissan. Oh.
1:30 Doug DeMuro? And they say, hey, we have a gift for you. And they described the gift in the email. And I don't... Do you know what this is? I know from the internet what they're giving out. I don't accept... Generally, I don't care to receive gifts from the automakers. Although I do have Toyota Mirai cocktail napkins. What? That's pretty good. You should question whether I reviewed the Mirai accurately because they bribed me with paper cocktail. They're not reusable.
1:59 Doug DeMuro? Do they just have an outline of a Mirai? It just says the word Mirai in their script. The, the, the, the new one, the newest one. The good looking one. It doesn't have a picture of the Mirai, it just has, it says Mirai in the Mirai script. Okay. And, and honestly. Ironically, the water leaking out of the, the exhaust pipe. They weren't actually even a gift. I, I stole them from what must have been a brunch or something, because I didn't attend a dinner on that. Anyway, the point is, I don't take gifts from the automakers. Yeah. But Nissan sends me this, this letter and, and I simply can't say no, because they sent me, "Thank you for being part of our story. We appreciate your interest in the Nissan Z Nismo Precision Sushi Knife." Yeah. What?
2:42 Doug DeMuro? And I'm like, they sent me this and I was like, I can't say no to this. This is the single stupidest thing I've ever heard of in my life. I must accept it. And so what I have in here is, wow, by the way, this is a gift, personal gift to me, okay? Nissan Z Nismo, so it's a sushi knife with the Z logo on it.
3:05 Speaker 03 Well, I mean, that, because you've been so generous, we're talking about Nissan's great successes.
3:09 Doug DeMuro? You know, I actually have been pretty generous to the Z, which I think is a pretty good card.
3:12 Speaker 03 Wow, this is quite.
3:14 Doug DeMuro? By the way, this is under embargo until March 21st, so I hope, thank God.
3:18 Speaker 03 It looks very sharp.
3:19 Doug DeMuro? I mean, it says, "Warning, this knife is sharp." Oh, actually, I, there's a quick safety, before you handle it, there's a quick safety notice in here. "This knife is extremely sharp. Please handle it with care and store it responsibly. Nissan is not liable for any injuries resulting from its use."
3:35 Doug DeMuro? By misuse, misuse or abuse.
3:38 Speaker 03 This is.
3:38 Doug DeMuro? Don't abuse my knife. Listen, put that card back in here. This is OE, I have this OE in box.
3:44 Speaker 03 Oh, I've, yeah, I've, I've taken it out, I've unboxed it.
3:46 Doug DeMuro? In 75 years. Love that. When you have a Nissan Z Nismo, you're going to, if you have the sushi knife, it goes along with the car.
3:54 Speaker 03 This is your F-50 shoes moment. You have.
3:59 Doug DeMuro? If you have the sushi knife that goes along with the car, notice the Z logo. If you have the sushi knife that goes along with the car, your Z will be worth at least $75 more. Are they giving this to Z owners? No. No, no, they're only giving it to, I, I, I don't want to. A themed journalist. I don't want to say. VIPs. I don't want to say it.
4:18 Speaker 04 Right.
4:18 Doug DeMuro? But I think Nissan said it, if you know what I mean.
4:22 Speaker 03 Yep, ZIPs in their case, but that is quite, that is quite something. I can't believe they sent this to you.
4:27 Speaker 04 Are they pretending that there's a tie to this besides Japan?
4:30 Doug DeMuro? I'm not sure.
4:31 Speaker 04 Is it like metal that's also used in wood?
4:35 Doug DeMuro? There's a chef. There's, there's a chef involved and, and, and they, they go to, they point to, point to his Instagram page. It's like a collab between them and some chef whose name is Hiroyuki Terada.
4:45 Speaker 04 Sure.
4:45 Doug DeMuro? Uh, but I don't, I can't, oh, there's only 240 of these.
4:49 Speaker 04 Whoa.
4:49 Doug DeMuro? Uh, attributed to the original 240Z. Oh, I don't, get out of here.
4:56 Speaker 03 Dang.
4:56 Doug DeMuro? Okay.
4:57 Speaker 03 240.
4:58 Doug DeMuro? 240, one of 240 Nissan sushi knife situation.
5:01 Speaker 03 I think it's, this is a box guy.
5:03 Doug DeMuro? Oh, wow. Look at this. It's got all the Z logos on it. 1969, 83, 90, 02, 09, and the new one.
5:10 Speaker 03 Man, the PR person that put this together must've been so happy with themselves.
5:14 Doug DeMuro? Well, as they should.
5:14 Speaker 04 That's a nice sounding box.
5:16 Doug DeMuro? This is a Z and Hiroyuki Terada.
5:18 Speaker 04 The box sounded nice.
5:19 Doug DeMuro? The box sounds nice. And I bet you this is made of the same wood that's in their cars. Plastic wood.
5:24 Speaker 03 Filippo recognizes quality when he hears it.
5:26 Doug DeMuro? Anyway, look, the point is, I just wanted to tell everybody that I'm a recipient of this gift because I wanted people to know how Nissan views me.
5:35 Speaker 04 As a ZIP.
5:36 Speaker 03 What an outrageous thing to send you.
5:38 Doug DeMuro? It's insane. And again, I turned down a lot of these gifts, but I.
5:40 Speaker 04 You can't turn that down. I agree.
5:42 Doug DeMuro? So from now on, you should suspect any of my Z reviews because they've bribed me with this sushi knife.
5:47 Speaker 04 Yeah, the, the next time they release an update to the Nissan Z, you'll, you'll.
5:51 Doug DeMuro? You'd never have to worry because it's never gonna be another Z.
5:54 Speaker 03 Maybe then it'll be chopsticks. Maybe it'll be an actual like samurai sword. It'll just keep getting more intense.
5:59 Doug DeMuro? The knife's limited to 240 units, just like the car.
6:04 Speaker 04 Demand limited, we like to say.
6:05 Speaker 03 Sales projection.
6:07 Doug DeMuro? That's the sales projection for like second half of the year. Uh, okay.
6:13 Speaker 04 New song was so happy with you for like a minute.
6:17 Doug DeMuro? Move on. Alright, we're gonna do questions. This is question day for everybody. Woo!
6:23 Speaker 03 Alright, let's dive in.
6:24 Doug DeMuro? Let's dive in. Okay, I'm gonna choose these at random. There's 2022. We're not gonna even get to all of these.
6:30 Speaker 04 Whoa.
6:30 Doug DeMuro? Now, by the way, keep in mind, if you want to ask us questions, you can. You go to carsandbids.com, you click on the community tab, and there's a post there that says, "Ask us questions for the next pod and we'll get to them." This pod is unusual because it's off schedule, but go after this, we're gonna go back to our normal question routine.
6:45 Speaker 04 Yeah.
6:46 Doug DeMuro? Uh, okay. Are you ready?
6:48 Speaker 04 Yes, prepared.
6:50 Doug DeMuro? Okay.
6:50 Speaker 04 Is this a test or just questions?
6:52 Doug DeMuro? No, no, there's-
6:53 Speaker 03 I feel pressure.
6:54 Doug DeMuro? Okay, and yeah, there's a few rankings that I'll intersperse throughout. Here's a good one. First question from a user whose name I'm not going to say on air. For everyone, this is a good one. If you had to pick a brand new car that was not sold in the US, which one would you get? Now, we constantly get asked, "What car do you want to report?"
7:11 Speaker 03 Easy.
7:11 Speaker 04 It's so easy.
7:12 Speaker 03 So easy.
7:12 Doug DeMuro? At 25, but if you had to pick a new one, you're both saying so easy, so easy, and I know you're thinking of different cars.
7:18 Speaker 03 Yep. Could not be more different cars.
7:21 Doug DeMuro? Okay, can I guess?
7:23 Speaker 04 Yeah, of course. It's not the same.
7:24 Doug DeMuro? You were thinking of the Mitsuka Buddy?
7:26 Speaker 04 No.
7:27 Doug DeMuro? Oh, come on, yes you are.
7:29 Speaker 04 No, I wish I had, but no.
7:30 Doug DeMuro? You're thinking of the Buddy.
7:32 Speaker 04 I do not want a RAV4 that looks like a K5 Blazer. That's all you need to know about it.
7:36 Doug DeMuro? Isn't that what we all want? Can I ask you a question?
7:39 Speaker 04 You OK, eh?
7:40 Doug DeMuro? Is there a functional-
7:41 Speaker 04 Buddy is, you know-
7:42 Doug DeMuro? Is there a functional difference between the Mitsuka Buddy and the Bronco Sport?
7:47 Speaker 04 Yes, the Mitsuka Buddy is based on a better car.
7:49 Doug DeMuro? But you get my point. The Bronco Sport is a Ford Escape that looks like a Bronco. The Mitsuka Buddy is a RAV4 that looks like a Blazer. Chevy wouldn't do it, so Toyota did.
7:58 Speaker 04 I oversimplified it. It looks like a K5 Blazer with a Cadillac SRX tail.
8:04 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, the rear is-
8:04 Speaker 03 The rear is-
8:05 Speaker 04 A very SRX.
8:06 Speaker 03 The whole thing is, but it's, uh, yeah, particularly unfortunate.
8:09 Speaker 04 Uh, that is not the answer I had in mind.
8:11 Doug DeMuro? You know, this car gets uglier every time we talk about it.
8:14 Speaker 04 It really does.
8:15 Speaker 03 You know, we have talked about before, I actually very much agree with this. It really does look worse. I used the same picture too.
8:22 Doug DeMuro? For some reason, I always think it's just the front end. Anyway, what's your answer? Car you could import?
8:26 Speaker 04 I want you to guess.
8:26 Doug DeMuro? Uh, Jimny?
8:27 Speaker 04 No.
8:28 Doug DeMuro? Uh...
8:29 Speaker 03 Jimny's a good guess.
8:30 Doug DeMuro? Uh, the Honda E?
8:31 Speaker 04 No, also no longer sold.
8:33 Doug DeMuro? But...
8:34 Speaker 04 Uh, I would like a Peugeot 508 station wagon, please.
8:37 Doug DeMuro? That's on sale?
8:38 Speaker 04 Yeah.
8:39 Speaker 03 Is it EUG? Yes, 507 wagon.
8:41 Speaker 04 508. Come on, man. Give it the correct century.
8:45 Speaker 03 I...
8:45 Doug DeMuro? Peugeot 507, 508 wagon. Is this electric?
8:48 Speaker 04 Uh, it's plug-in, there are probably plug-in hybrid ones, yes.
8:51 Doug DeMuro? Okay, and you want this?
8:52 Speaker 04 I do.
8:52 Doug DeMuro? I presume that, I presume that the, that the, uh, top version of it is a 145...
8:58 Speaker 04 That's all you need.
9:00 Doug DeMuro? 145 horse, and you know what? They, there's a, uh, there's a shifter guide that at 600 RPM, it pops on and makes Felipe shift into...
9:09 Speaker 04 It's a small steering wheel.
9:12 Doug DeMuro? Is that one of those ones that the steering...
9:13 Speaker 04 I think all the little ones are, yeah.
9:14 Doug DeMuro? Um, okay.
9:16 Speaker 03 It's like the opposite of skip shift. It makes you shift...
9:18 Doug DeMuro? It makes you shift into second really early.
9:22 Speaker 04 I think this is one of, this is a great looking station wagon. There's a lot of great looking station wagons on the market in Europe right now.
9:27 Doug DeMuro? This is a tremendously bland, pull up a front, I mean, this is a bland...
9:31 Speaker 04 It's a good looking car.
9:32 Doug DeMuro? It's a boring, it's, it's a...
9:34 Speaker 04 No, you know what?
9:35 Doug DeMuro? It's a car of mystery, but it's a good looking car.
9:37 Speaker 03 It's fine.
9:37 Doug DeMuro? It's fine.
9:38 Speaker 03 It's fine.
9:38 Doug DeMuro? I think it's a good looking wagon.
9:39 Speaker 03 And Felipe's over here...
9:40 Doug DeMuro? Kenan and I also have a European station wagon. Kenan, do you want to say it or me?
9:43 Speaker 03 You go ahead.
9:44 Doug DeMuro? Uh, the new M3 wagon. One of the great mistakes of product planning is that BMW didn't sell this car here in the unit. Too much power.
9:51 Speaker 04 And not big enough.
9:52 Speaker 03 Too much power, oh my god.
9:53 Doug DeMuro? Do they sell this with a stick? Is it not...
9:55 Speaker 03 No, because it's comps only, so...
9:57 Doug DeMuro? That's too bad. Uh, but still, new M3 wagon.
9:59 Speaker 04 508 station wagon sold to the stick.
10:01 Speaker 03 That is so cool.
10:02 Doug DeMuro? 508, I would rather have this with a tip than a 508 wagon with front wheel drive, a plug-in hybrid system, and 131 horsepower.
10:09 Speaker 04 Respectfully disagree.
10:09 Doug DeMuro? From a 1.6 liter two cylinder.
10:11 Speaker 03 He disrespectfully...
10:14 Speaker 03 That's, that's
10:14 Doug DeMuro? That is your answer, right? That's what you were gonna say.
10:16 Speaker 03 No, Gordon Murray T33 is the answer.
10:18 Doug DeMuro? That's sold here.
10:20 Speaker 03 No, it isn't.
10:20 Doug DeMuro? They're gonna do it show or display.
10:21 Speaker 03 It's show or display. That's, that means it's not sold, that means it's not sold here.
10:24 Doug DeMuro? I drove around in an SP3.
10:28 Doug DeMuro? I drove around
10:29 Speaker 03 The car's not sold here.
10:29 Doug DeMuro? I drove around Bell Gardens in an SP3. I almost got knifed to death, but I did survive it.
10:34 Speaker 03 I'm glad that you survived. You know, I'm glad you said the 33. I don't know why you didn't say the 50.
10:38 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, why not the 50?
10:40 Speaker 03 Which is a choice. Because I think the 33 is prettier and like more easy to use and like Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah. Famously a car that's gonna be easy to Well, it is. The 30, the 50 is you have to sit in the middle.
10:51 Doug DeMuro? Go up. What's hap- oh, my God. Go down. Oh, my God. Okay. What's happening there? Is that the, there's a luggage compartment in there?
10:57 Speaker 03 Yeah, and it opens up like this.
10:59 Doug DeMuro? Do you agree with me that that luggage is?
11:01 Speaker 03 Well, that's clearly, yeah, that's not a real image.
11:03 Doug DeMuro? No, I mean, it doesn't have handles.
11:05 Speaker 03 Well, yes, that would, it would be difficult to carry. No, you just carry on with no handles. Gordon Murray's all about saving weight.
11:13 Speaker 03 Exactly. You work on your body.
11:14 Doug DeMuro? You know what? You don't even need the luggage because you're all about saving weight when you travel.
11:17 Speaker 03 Yeah, T30, the T50 I like, but I don't, it's not as pretty as this car. I think the T33 is better looking.
11:23 Doug DeMuro? Boy, if, I'll tell you something. If this car came out tomorrow from an unknown hypercar company that was claiming to build a car, I wouldn't give it a second look, but because it's Gordon Murray
11:34 Speaker 03 It has that spectacular naturally aspirated V12.
11:37 Doug DeMuro? Which is made by Cosworth. Why don't you just get a B5 RS4?
11:39 Speaker 03 Because they, doesn't have a V12 in it.
11:42 Doug DeMuro? So you think, yeah, but it's got something, something for Cosworth, yeah.
11:45 Speaker 03 Yeah, Cosworth is not enough. It must have 12 cylinders, individual throttle bodies.
11:50 Doug DeMuro? I got ITBs in my Countach.
11:53 Speaker 03 Well, all right. Actually, I think the Courage GT might have ITBs. Maybe not, but my car certainly has. All right. Good choices all.
12:01 Doug DeMuro? Okay, that was a good question and we've all made good choices. I believe that Kenan and I won. This isn't a game show, but I think
12:07 Speaker 03 I think we could say that, yeah.
12:09 Doug DeMuro? Okay, next question. Filippo has got a dry erase board.
12:13 Speaker 03 I can erase it.
12:14 Doug DeMuro? We don't have paper in this office?
12:15 Speaker 03 Well, I don't want to waste it.
12:16 Doug DeMuro? You don't waste paper. Uh, okay. All right. The question is as follows, and this is a good one. This is our first rank. There's gonna be a few today.
12:24 Speaker 03 Okay.
12:24 Doug DeMuro? Rank every generation of Range Rover. You know, we don't even need paper for this.
12:29 Speaker 03 Yeah, we don't. You're right now. Well, let me, let me just say my lot. Range Rover Classic, the P38, the L322, whatever the one after that.
12:37 Doug DeMuro? L405.
12:37 Speaker 03 Right.
12:38 Doug DeMuro? And then the new one, which is the something or other, but you can just say new.
12:42 Speaker 04 Okay, you're gonna put the...
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13:15 Doug DeMuro? The P38's last. It just is.
13:18 Speaker 04 Uh, yeah.
13:20 Doug DeMuro? I mean, the P38 is probably my favorite Range Rover, to be perfectly honest. But it is so raucously badly built, that you can't put it as anything other than last.
13:30 Speaker 04 I don't disagree with that. Even the original is...
13:33 Doug DeMuro? It looks, it looks better than every other Range Rover. It has a wonderful seating position. It has a smooth powertrain. It's last.
13:40 Speaker 04 I don't think it looks better than every other Range Rover. I think it absolutely does.
13:45 Doug DeMuro? In this color with these wheels, it does not. But I think a very nice, a black O2 is probably the, one of the best looking SUVs ever, if not the single best looking SUV of all time. A black, a black O2, take, yeah, that one, but that one, that one, that one.
13:57 Speaker 04 First of all, the E53X5 exists, so...
14:00 Doug DeMuro? And what did they base the whole E53X5 ethos on?
14:04 Speaker 04 That is true. Actually, they worked with them specifically. The E53X5 looks better.
14:08 Doug DeMuro? No, it's a curvy thing.
14:09 Speaker 04 And it's got those lumps on the... Okay, the headlights isn't the, the front isn't the best look. This is a great, classic, good look.
14:15 Doug DeMuro? It is the worst Range Rover.
14:17 Speaker 04 Yep.
14:17 Doug DeMuro? Oh, look at that. Yeah. If you were driving that in 1999, you, you might as well, you, you could, you could buy or sell people like, like, like, like a, like a pen.
14:29 Doug DeMuro? Which, by the way, you didn't use because you had assistants following you everywhere, writing down everything you said.
14:34 Speaker 04 That's right, yes. Take a note. By the way, one of, one of the highlights of the movie, The Parent Trap.
14:38 Doug DeMuro? Yes, okay, so P38's last. We agree on that. Do you agree on that? Oh my God, you're not gonna, what are you gonna say is last?
14:44 Speaker 04 He's gonna put the new one last, cause it's kinda... No, no, no, the new one's a great one. The new one's not first on my list, by the way.
14:49 Doug DeMuro? Okay, what's first on your list?
14:52 Doug DeMuro? You, if you don't...
14:53 Speaker 04 The L405.
14:54 Doug DeMuro? But you, oh my God, I can't, I'm done. We're done. Goodnight, everybody. Thanks for coming to the podcast.
15:00 Speaker 04 I don't think I believe that yet. I gotta, I gotta think about that a little more. I gotta think about that a little more.
15:05 Doug DeMuro? Okay.
15:07 Speaker 03 I am putting it, I don't think the P, I think P38 is second class, I'm putting the classic last.
15:12 Doug DeMuro? Oh my god!
15:14 Speaker 03 No, that's not true.
15:16 Speaker 04 Okay, well that's also insane.
15:18 Speaker 03 I take it back, I'm gonna put...
15:19 Doug DeMuro? You know what the hard part about this is? None were great.
15:22 Speaker 03 I'm gonna put the, right. You know normally it is picking between a lot of great cars, this time it's like picking between a lot of bad cars.
15:28 Doug DeMuro? It's pretty easy to rank from the bottom up, but I don't like any of my options at the top.
15:31 Speaker 03 I'm putting...
15:33 Speaker 04 It's hard.
15:34 Doug DeMuro? It's hard.
15:35 Speaker 04 But I'll tell you what the answer is.
15:36 Speaker 03 Cause the 405...
15:37 Speaker 04 The 405 is, it kinda made Range Rover a successful brand, again.
15:42 Doug DeMuro? The 405 is second to last.
15:43 Speaker 04 Wow.
15:44 Speaker 03 I think it might, no.
15:46 Doug DeMuro? It had the timing chain issue, it went to six cylinders, they never had a diesel though, they never quite had the king of the road feel that first two, three generations had. You get in an L405, it feels more like a car. A P38 or an L322, you get in that thing, you feel like you own the people around you and they are your subjects.
16:02 Speaker 04 And I did love your L322, and when I see a nice L322, I still legitimately get excited.
16:08 Doug DeMuro? I wish we could separate 03 to 05 L322 from most 6 to 12 L322.
16:13 Speaker 03 I have a new take.
16:13 Speaker 04 Okay, oh wow.
16:15 Speaker 03 Cause you're saying that the P38 is last because of its unreliability. Well, they all will be that way. The new one is only not there because it's not old yet.
16:23 Doug DeMuro? The P38, that, all of them are unreliable. The P38...
16:27 Speaker 03 I don't think it's pretty good.
16:28 Doug DeMuro? If you look at it, if you look at it, the air suspension fails, the electronics fail, the heater core fails, there is not a single Land Rover shop in the entire country that doesn't have seven of these sitting in the back, unclaimed, because there was a repair bill that was more than $1,200.
16:44 Speaker 03 It's only because the classics all rusted away.
16:46 Speaker 04 Let's look at that. Coil spring conversion.
16:48 Speaker 03 The other ones aren't old enough.
16:49 Speaker 04 Coil spring conversion, coil spring conversion, coil spring conversion.
16:51 Doug DeMuro? This one's had a motor swap.
16:53 Speaker 03 Alright, you're gonna put a new motor and some springs, you know, what are you doing?
16:57 Speaker 04 I, I'm gonna revise mine to not put P38 last, only because of the iconicness.
17:02 Doug DeMuro? For Christ's...
17:03 Speaker 04 I'm gonna put a second to last instead.
17:04 Doug DeMuro? After what? What's last? What's last? What do you put below the P38?
17:09 Speaker 03 I don't even know, like, what to put, the new one is theory.
17:12 Speaker 04 The new one below the P38. The, the new one is a great car, but it doesn't improve on the Range Rover in any notable way, and it's not dissimilar from, or different from, or better than any of the other luxury SUVs that are for sale right now.
17:23 Doug DeMuro? I totally disagree, it is still the gold standard. So you're gonna put the... Still the gold standard.
17:28 Speaker 03 So by your logic, the 405 should be the best?
17:32 Speaker 04 I do think the 405 legitimately innovated in the space.
17:36 Doug DeMuro? Because it was a mass broader appeal. The first three have exotic car. Okay, look, we gotta finish this. Yeah. Cause it's one Range Rovers. I'm gonna tell you what the answer is. All right.
17:44 Speaker 03 L322.
17:45 Doug DeMuro? First, oh god, I don't wanna say 322 first. Yeah, but you're going to. You're going to. You're going to say it. Then classic, and then new, and then, there you go. That's actually a pretty good ranking.
17:54 Speaker 03 You're saying L322 classic.
17:56 Doug DeMuro? L322, Range Rover classic, new Range Rover, 405. You know what? That's mine. Incredibly? I'll get behind it. Wow, you agree with mine? I think so. Wow!
18:05 Speaker 03 I would put P38 where the, you have classic.
18:08 Doug DeMuro? My second? Second? What are you putting first? I love the P38 too, but I'm a human being.
18:13 Speaker 03 And I put the 405 at the bottom.
18:15 Doug DeMuro? I have places to go. The 405 was a great car. Yeah. So what's first for you?
18:19 Speaker 03 But the P38, like, like the classic, is an icon.
18:21 Doug DeMuro? What's first for you, the 322?
18:23 Speaker 03 I think the 322.
18:24 Doug DeMuro? I wanna be very clear here. We both have ranked the L322 first. This does not count the 03 to 05 models. Those are utter, do not buy one of them. Unless it's for sale on cars. No, and if this, if this rant makes people never sell one again on Cars and Bids, thank god.
18:42 Speaker 03 Yeah, that, when I thi- when I think of a Range Rover, that is still what I think.
18:45 Doug DeMuro? The 0, the 06 to 12s are really great cars. Okay, next question. How do we get away with, this is the first time we've done a ranking, and Instagram will agree. Well.
18:56 Speaker 03 Nah, I don't know about that.
18:56 Doug DeMuro? I don't think that's true, but Instagram, Instagram generally prefers, I've looked at the comments and I've generally seen that Instagram prefers the ratiest as the first. No, they would, they would be. P38 are too ratty to be ratty. Buying a brand new car right off the lot can be thrilling, but negotiating the deal, not so much. Dealers have all the info, you've got sticker shock, and only a rough idea of what a good deal really means. That's why I love our sponsor, Car Edge. If you're car shopping and dreading the dealership dance, Car Edge offers two services that can completely change the game. First, there's concierge. Think of it as your personal car buying expert. You're paired with a dedicated concierge who works exclusively for you, not the dealership.
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20:18 Doug DeMuro? Okay, here's a great question from Joe with a zero. Where is the floor on the previous gen AMG GT? Boy, that's a good question. Pull up our sales.
20:28 Speaker 03 Not low enough. No, they are, they are, they're more, they're less than you would think.
20:34 Doug DeMuro? Hit lowest price.
20:35 Speaker 04 No, they're so much less than you'd think.
20:36 Doug DeMuro? These cars are selling routinely in the low 60s now.
20:40 Speaker 03 I think they're gonna keep going down.
20:42 Doug DeMuro? They are exotic looking. This car has 14,000 miles and sold for $63,000. This is a bona fide exotic car.
20:50 Speaker 03 So with 28,000 miles, you gotta assume like...
20:52 Doug DeMuro? And that was six months ago.
20:53 Speaker 03 How many miles?
20:54 Doug DeMuro? These cars are in the 50s.
20:55 Speaker 03 38. This one had 38,000 miles and sold for 62.5.
20:58 Doug DeMuro? Solarbeam. These cars are in, I'm telling you, these cars are in the 50s.
21:01 Speaker 04 They're such good-looking cars.
21:02 Doug DeMuro? So the question is, where's the floor?
21:05 Speaker 03 I think, I think it'll go down a little bit more, but I mean, it's a pretty great value as it stands.
21:08 Doug DeMuro? Why do we think there is a floor? What's a 17911 cost?
21:12 Speaker 04 Double that.
21:13 Doug DeMuro? Double. 120?
21:15 Speaker 04 No, but in the high...
21:17 Speaker 03 No, but they're like mid 80s.
21:18 Speaker 04 Yeah.
21:19 Speaker 03 I mean, that's not an exaggeration.
21:21 Doug DeMuro? It's wild. This is a wild thing that's happened. By the way, the four-door GC63 is the greatest four-door car I've ever driven in my entire life.
21:28 Speaker 03 Wow.
21:29 Doug DeMuro? I'm gonna say it.
21:30 Speaker 03 Okay, alright.
21:31 Doug DeMuro? What do you got? What do you think's better? Lucid Air?
21:33 Speaker 04 Yeah.
21:34 Doug DeMuro? No.
21:35 Speaker 04 The GC63 is a special car.
21:37 Doug DeMuro? I think there is a floor because there is a floor to that level of combustion engine performance.
21:42 Speaker 04 I guess, but...
21:43 Speaker 03 I mean...
21:44 Speaker 04 But the V8, I think at some point it becomes much more desirable.
21:47 Doug DeMuro? I think these cars make it into the 30s. I think, 30s is where my head went.
21:50 Speaker 03 I think, yeah, for... Tired one with some bad mods.
21:54 Doug DeMuro? I don't think we're that. I think you're wrong. I think when they're just 15 years old, they're gonna be generally in the 30s.
21:59 Speaker 03 I don't know. That shape for 30, like, that seems kind of, I don't know.
22:03 Doug DeMuro? 30, but like 37, 33 to 37, for like an okay one.
22:09 Speaker 03 So it's gonna be between this and a Gen 1 Viper, maybe the same price tier.
22:13 Speaker 04 Yeah, that's what a DB9 costs.
22:15 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
22:16 Speaker 04 And that's a gorgeous Ferrari.
22:17 Speaker 03 The DB9 is cheap because it is unreliable. I've done more research. It turns out that it has a lot of problems.
22:23 Doug DeMuro? There's a presumption that these are, will be unreliable as they age.
22:25 Speaker 03 No, I did highly disagree.
22:26 Doug DeMuro? But I think people, German cars appreciate because of that presumption. Whether or not you think it will.
22:32 Speaker 03 I don't think, yeah, but this engine's in everything. I mean, it's, it's, this engine's notoriously reliable.
22:37 Doug DeMuro? It might, it might be, but, but my, my, my point is that they, they end up with a reputation for potentially having issues. Do you understand what I'm saying?
22:44 Speaker 03 I understand that. I want to do research on if these actually do or not.
22:47 Doug DeMuro? I, but I don't think that matters. My point is used Mercedes AMG cars always lose value because people think they're unreliable.
22:54 Speaker 03 I get your point. That applies to most four-door normal AMG cars. This is, this is a very serious-looking sports car.
22:59 Doug DeMuro? No, but he's right. Vantages, DB9, Vantages are reliable.
23:02 Speaker 04 SL63s don't, like, once they're 10, 20 years old, are in the below 30s.
23:08 Speaker 03 But again, it's more.
23:09 Speaker 04 Why is that different?
23:10 Speaker 03 But I think because like, if you're, you're talking about public perception, most people will look at those cars and just think it's kind of an old SL. This doesn't look old, nor does it look like an SL. It looks more like a supercar.
23:20 Doug DeMuro? It'll look old, and keep in mind, the SL was renamed to be this in the next generation. I think you're exactly right. Maybe it'll go lower than 30s. I'm saying 20s.
23:27 Speaker 04 No.
23:27 Doug DeMuro? Floor, 10, 20. Dude, an SL, what's an SL55 cost? Eighty-eight hundred bucks? Truly. What's an SL55 cost? How, how is this any different? The only difference is 14 years. Pull up lowest price. I bet you can get one for 8800. 10, 450, same thing.
23:40 Speaker 04 I, I don't think it's just that. These were focused, this era of Mercedes-Benz AMG was focused on speed, not handling performance. The, the more modern, much more modern MG GT is a better handling, better driven car, and that will keep it appealing to enthusiasts at a certain point.
23:55 Speaker 03 Well, this is more related to the, in most people's eyes, I think, the SLS than this was the SLR, for instance. Like, I, this is more related, looks more like a supercar, like, in a lot of people's minds, so. I don't know.
24:08 Speaker 04 20s, 30s, and apparently like 100 grand.
24:10 Speaker 03 No, no, I think it's gonna be like somewhere in the, in the 40s, I think. But I mean, still, I mean, so you lose 10 grand on one if you bought one of the, that one or, I mean, like.
24:19 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, no, they're, they're, e- either way, even if it gets into the 30s, you're talking years, they'll be, they're pretty good buys now.
24:24 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's a solid.
24:25 Doug DeMuro? But they did lose value quick, quicker than I expected, and they're still going down. And I'm pretty impressed with it. I'm shocked at the, at the value prop here. And I think especially a good value prop is this GT63 four-door. And I want one, I want one bad. I saw one today, I was in the Cura GT, I saw one today, he's coming towards me. GT, yeah, GT63 four, he's coming towards me, and I, and I'm looking at him like, oh, and he didn't even see the Cura GT. I will say.
24:45 Speaker 03 Which is a perfect example of why I don't really like those cars.
24:48 Doug DeMuro? I agree, but the way they drive is, these cars are so athletic. It's amazing how they drive, truly amazing.
24:55 Speaker 04 I will also say, none of what we said applies to the GT53 four-door or the GT43 four-door.
25:00 Doug DeMuro? Those are going to the zero.
25:00 Speaker 04 Six dollars, we're worth zero.
25:02 Doug DeMuro? Eventually.
25:02 Speaker 03 Going to zero.
25:03 Doug DeMuro? Okay, next question, this is another beautiful question. Do it like Trump, say a beautiful question.
25:08 Speaker 03 Another beautiful question.
25:11 Doug DeMuro? All right, from Hazyell, Hazyell, Hazyell, what do you think, this is a great one for us, Ken. What do you think is the least desirable car worth over a million dollars?
25:20 Speaker 03 Oh, man, I can name, I can give you a lot. There are a lot of cars, I cannot believe over a million dollars.
25:28 Doug DeMuro? New Countach is really deeply up there.
25:31 Speaker 03 On that list, firmly.
25:37 Doug DeMuro? Um, but there's a lot.
25:38 Speaker 03 There are a lot.
25:39 Speaker 04 Can you name some?
25:40 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, oh, I mean, I mean, Pagani Weira, new Countach, Lamborghini Cia, Lamborghini.
25:45 Speaker 03 Most Koenigsegg's.
25:46 Doug DeMuro? Aventador FKP57, or whatever it was called, Lamborghini, uh, Chantinario, Lamborghini of, uh, uh, Revitone, uh, Lamborghini, uh. All of those super low production stupid Lamborghinis. Yeah, most Koenigsegg's, uh, only because they're incredibly unreliable.
26:03 Speaker 03 I'm sure there's, I'm sure there's some BS Jerry Seinfeld 356 that's a million.
26:07 Doug DeMuro? That's a great, that is actually a great, any, any air-cooled that, that a normal person couldn't tell apart from another air-cooled, if that's over a million dollars, is number one on this list.
26:16 Speaker 03 If it looks like a bathtub and it's over a million dollars, that, it's on that list.
26:21 Doug DeMuro? We, we know it so badly, we know it so little that, uh, that it doesn't belong, okay.
26:25 Speaker 03 Well, I mean, when it makes, yeah, when it makes 43 horsepower, I can't really be bothered with that.
26:29 Doug DeMuro? No, McLaren Saber.
26:31 Speaker 03 Yeah. You don't even know.
26:34 Doug DeMuro? I do it actually, privately.
26:36 Speaker 03 I mean, and to be clear, a lot of people will think these cars are, it's just, it's hard to justify, it's hard to understand how much a million dollars is.
26:44 Doug DeMuro? It's a million dollars.
26:45 Speaker 03 And especially because that car is 1.3 million dollars and that's better than all of them.
26:50 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
26:51 Speaker 03 So like.
26:51 Doug DeMuro? New Ford GT.
26:53 Speaker 03 Wow.
26:53 Doug DeMuro? Well.
26:54 Speaker 03 Well, those are about a million dollars.
26:56 Doug DeMuro? No, they're not. Um, I love when we make fun of the show.
27:02 Doug DeMuro? No, but I mean, there's, there's a lot of this stuff that is like crazy, crazy. These supercars that were made just to make rich people feel special.
27:09 Speaker 03 Right.
27:09 Doug DeMuro? To me, have, do not have significant.
27:12 Speaker 03 And back when we were young, like when the Enzo, when Enzo traded hand for 1.2, it was like, wow. I mean, because there were only a handful of cars in that realm that weren't like super vintage Ferraris or like whatever, but like, oh, you remember when a Cuda sold for over a million? Do you remember that?
27:26 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
27:26 Speaker 03 There's one that's like.
27:27 Doug DeMuro? The boomers were paying big money for that stuff at the time. I gotta be honest with you. I find those cars to be more desirable.
27:33 Speaker 03 Yeah, I would rather have those cars, but um, the, yeah, they're just, there are so many cars that are over a million now, and I just don't think that it's not a million.
27:41 Doug DeMuro? So many cars over a million that were just made to be really rich guy, rich guy jewel cars. Like they're not, like, like the cars that were over a million before were because the market felt they were worth a million. And the cars that are over a million now, Lamborghini comes out with a re-bodied Aventador, calls it a Countach, prices it at 2.8. And, and, and then the only people who buy them are rich guys who never drive them, who think because they got a call to buy one, that they're special. And, and the market has shown that that's not a lot of interest in those cars. They're dropping like flies on the used market.
28:09 Speaker 03 Right. At one point in the past, that was true. If you got that call to buy an Enzo, you were.
28:13 Doug DeMuro? That's right. That's exactly right. There was a, a time when if you got a call to buy one of these cars. And, and now as Ed Bullion told me, he said, people come to me and say, I got an allocation for this. And Ed told me, he said, the thing I ask the people is, did you do anything to deserve this allocation? And he said, if the answer is no, you probably don't want the allocation. Because that car is going to depreciate like crazy, which we're already finding.
28:34 Speaker 03 It's a very fair point. So that's the, that's the nuance there. I realize that these cars are all crazy and stuff, but like, that's the. Can you spec an SF90 to over a million?
28:41 Doug DeMuro? No, you, you can probably get close.
28:43 Speaker 03 Eighty was the highest.
28:45 Doug DeMuro? But there's now that SF90 high performance one.
28:47 Speaker 03 Well, there's, yes.
28:48 Doug DeMuro? So probably.
28:49 Speaker 03 Maybe. Well, there's not, yep. Add that to the list.
28:53 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
28:55 Doug DeMuro? Okay, uh, next question. This, and so the answer is, there's a lot of them. And we kind of, I've gotten to the point where I really only respect the million dollar cars if they weren't a million bucks originally and the market has kind of taken them there. There are some exceptions to that, like the Bugatti Veyron, the Bugatti Chiron, the Pagani Zonda. Probably wasn't a million originally, but it's been a long time at a million.
29:13 Speaker 04 No, it was nowhere near a million.
29:14 Doug DeMuro? Yeah. Um, there, there are some others too, if I really thought about it. I actually really do like the Revlon. I, I said, I mentioned it only because I was going off, but.
29:22 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah.
29:23 Doug DeMuro? But you get my point. Like, I, I think a lot of the newer crop of cars that don't really, for me, a million bucks better buy you the greatest driving car of all time, or the fastest car in the world, or whatever, when it's just a re-bodied car that is low production just because it's low production. It's not special.
29:37 Speaker 04 By the way, if you own one of those cars and you decide to sell it because Doug doesn't like it, sell it on CarPlay.
29:44 Speaker 04 Doug wrote a mean Doug's take for you.
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30:28 Doug DeMuro? American Financing's salary-based consultants are ready to listen and ready to help. Take back your peace of mind with American Financing. Call American Financing today, 866-885-1881, or visit americanfinancing.net/doug. Check out americanfinancing.net/doug or call 866-885-1881 to learn how homeowners are saving $800 a month on average. NMLS 182334, www.nmlsconsumeraccess.org. Okay, next question. Uh, there's some, God, there's some great ones. From BBB914, question for everyone. When you think of a Ferrari, a Porsche 911, or a Lamborghini, what do you think of? Okay, so.
31:12 Speaker 04 Easy.
31:12 Doug DeMuro? A Ferrari. What do you think of when you think of a Ferrari?
31:15 Speaker 03 It's just the prototype one I grew up with.
31:17 Doug DeMuro? 355.
31:18 Speaker 03 It's the F355.
31:19 Doug DeMuro? What do you think of?
31:20 Speaker 04 A Ferrari.
31:21 Doug DeMuro? Trying to think of it right now.
31:22 Speaker 04 I'm trying to think too.
31:22 Doug DeMuro? To me, it's like, I don't know if I think of an exact car, but it is definitely a red mid-engine, red tan mid-engine. It's either a 458 or a 488, I think. Something like that.
31:30 Speaker 04 Oh, interesting.
31:32 Doug DeMuro? When I think, oh, it's a Ferrari. That's what it is. When someone says to me, hey, I have a Jeep, I know they're talking about a Wrangler.
31:38 Speaker 04 Right.
31:38 Doug DeMuro? When someone says to me, I have a Ferrari, if someone is to say that, my presumption would be they're in a 458 or a 488.
31:43 Speaker 03 It's not a Mondeo.
31:45 Speaker 04 Oh, that is mid-engine, red. Somebody says they have a Ferrari.
31:50 Speaker 03 38 GT4.
31:50 Doug DeMuro? A Ferrari. Like, to me-
31:52 Speaker 04 An F430 for some reason.
31:53 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, maybe F430.
31:54 Speaker 03 Age-wise, yeah.
31:55 Doug DeMuro? Okay, what about a Porsche 911?
31:57 Speaker 03 930.
31:58 Doug DeMuro? Oh, damn. Legit.
32:01 Speaker 03 They were a bunch in my hometown. I remember seeing them all the time.
32:03 Doug DeMuro? I think of a silver 991. What do you think of?
32:06 Speaker 04 I was gonna say a pretty base 997.
32:09 Doug DeMuro? Pretty base 997. A Porsche 911, to me is a silver 9-
32:13 Speaker 04 There was like an era, which was 997 era, when in like every movie, the rich guy, richish guy, drove a 997 coupe.
32:22 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
32:22 Speaker 04 And that's just where my head goes.
32:23 Doug DeMuro? I guess, but to me, when someone says I have a 911, they probably have a base 991.
32:29 Speaker 04 I think that's fair. I don't disagree.
32:31 Doug DeMuro? But when you think of 997, or not-
32:32 Speaker 04 I love it. I think 997.
32:34 Doug DeMuro? What about a Lamborghini?
32:37 Doug DeMuro? A Lamborghini?
32:38 Speaker 03 Thinking too much.
32:39 Speaker 04 I think today, you'd think Huracan. I think I think Gallardo.
32:43 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, I think Gallardo or a Huracan.
32:44 Speaker 04 Some entry level.
32:45 Speaker 03 The first one that comes to mind.
32:46 Doug DeMuro? Really?
32:47 Speaker 04 Good for you.
32:47 Speaker 03 The black mirrors.
32:49 Doug DeMuro? Your brain is great. You have all these wonderful visions.
32:52 Speaker 03 I'm telling you.
32:52 Doug DeMuro? But when I'm thinking, when I hear Lamborghini, I'm thinking about a Huracan. Like, that's a Lamborghini. That's kind of a prototype.
32:58 Speaker 04 Somebody comes up to me, I own a Lamborghini.
33:00 Doug DeMuro? They got a Huracan. And when someone says a Lamborghini, like if someone is telling me a story and they're not into cars, and they say, I saw this Lamborghini, my assumption is they saw a Huracan.
33:09 Speaker 03 That's true. When I hear that. I'm just saying from my own perspective.
33:12 Speaker 04 And if they saw a Ferrari, I think you're right, like a 458 is, or a California, a red California.
33:17 Doug DeMuro? It could be California, but in that context, I would think of a California, but still, when I think of a Ferrari, I think of a 458.
33:24 Speaker 03 You know what it is? When someone said, oh, I saw a Ferrari, what was it? It was probably a 911. It was a McLaren. That's what they saw. Or it was an Alfa Romeo 4C.
33:32 Doug DeMuro? What's the one that starts with M? Okay. Okay.
33:35 Speaker 03 Oh, Maserati? It's a Ghibli. 100% of the time, people with-
33:39 Doug DeMuro? Which, by the way, no flaw on those. Okay, here's a good question from Frank AP. Rank- The decades of cars from the 80s to the 2020s.
33:48 Speaker 04 No.
33:48 Speaker 03 Oh, that's pretty easy.
33:51 Doug DeMuro? Okay. We agree that number one is 2000 to 2010, the 2000s.
33:56 Speaker 03 That was peak. That was our 60s.
33:58 Doug DeMuro? It gets, and, and, and I hate to be one of those people. But the worst is now. The worst is the 2020s.
34:05 Speaker 04 Have you seen 1980s cars?
34:07 Doug DeMuro? The, the worst is the 2020s.
34:09 Speaker 04 The F40.
34:10 Doug DeMuro? Everything's tip and plug.
34:11 Speaker 03 Countach, 280 GT.
34:13 Speaker 04 I, I don't think supercars. I buy, obviously, my brain never goes to supercars and average cars in the 80s.
34:19 Doug DeMuro? I didn't even consider average cars.
34:21 Speaker 03 Yep.
34:21 Doug DeMuro? Nope. Sorry.
34:23 Speaker 04 Didn't enter my mind.
34:24 Speaker 03 In that case, actually, well, that does change things if we think of it, are we?
34:27 Doug DeMuro? But it's a good point.
34:28 Speaker 03 It's a good point.
34:28 Speaker 04 I do agree with 2000s.
34:29 Doug DeMuro? No, I think it's a, I think he's right, that you should rank them all.
34:33 Speaker 03 Okay. I still think we have a pretty good point. There are a lot of really good normal cars between 2000 and 2010.
34:38 Doug DeMuro? No, 2000 for sure.
34:39 Speaker 03 I think for sure. Honda was killing it at the time.
34:42 Doug DeMuro? Yeah. 2000 was great, man. Everybody had a, an NA four cylinder and a V6 in their midsize.
34:48 Speaker 04 Yep, everybody.
34:49 Doug DeMuro? Figure out where's a plug-in hybrid or a.
34:50 Speaker 03 Names kind of made sense, like.
34:52 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
34:53 Speaker 03 Man, we, this, we sound like, we sound like the elderly.
34:57 Speaker 04 That's tough.
34:58 Doug DeMuro? Okay, but that was a good era for cars. Just look behind me and see the two cars behind me that hail from that era.
35:04 Speaker 03 Yeah.
35:04 Doug DeMuro? I almost.
35:05 Speaker 04 You wouldn't go to me for that shot.
35:07 Doug DeMuro? Okay, okay, so. Then it gets harder.
35:12 Speaker 04 Yeah.
35:12 Speaker 03 Yep.
35:13 Doug DeMuro? Then it gets harder.
35:14 Speaker 04 I, I think I have to put 80s last.
35:17 Doug DeMuro? Okay.
35:17 Speaker 04 I just think that the average car in the 80s, even sport car in the 80s, just were not.
35:21 Speaker 03 There was some garbage.
35:21 Speaker 04 At the top of their game.
35:22 Speaker 03 When it was that weird transition coming out of the 70s and.
35:25 Speaker 04 Out of fuel crisis into.
35:28 Speaker 03 And carburetor.
35:29 Speaker 04 Better versions of that, but like really early tech, they've aged poorly. I will also note, knowing cars and bits data, 80s is by far the rarest type of car we sell, because there's aren't that many great enthusiast cars from the era. In, in the US, the Germans were not large at, you were not.
35:44 Doug DeMuro? You know, I wrote that article about how 80s cars are bad and everybody hated it.
35:47 Speaker 03 Because everybody just thinks of exactly what you and I did, the F40 and like, and you've made a point that no good cars were made in the 1980s.
35:54 Doug DeMuro? No good cars came out of the 80s. I really believe that, except for the very end.
35:58 Speaker 03 Right.
35:58 Doug DeMuro? However, a lot of good cars did come out of the end. The E30, the F40, the Countach Aniversario.
36:06 Speaker 03 959.
36:07 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, the 959. Those are really nice.
36:09 Speaker 03 935.
36:10 Doug DeMuro? Speaking of 959, there's a fellow in my neighborhood who parks, who parks a 991 in his driveway, and it's a four-car garage. And I figure if he's parking a 991 in his driveway, he's got a 959 probably. That's my assumption.
36:21 Speaker 03 Aren't they like, they depreciate again. There's like 60,000 dollar cars. I mean, it's still something I've outside.
36:27 Doug DeMuro? You're talking about the 991.
36:28 Speaker 03 I'm talking 991. 959s haven't depreciated.
36:31 Doug DeMuro? Okay. The next, the next, this is really hard, but I think that the, the, I'm not going to put 80s last. I'll probably put the 10s next, then the 90s.
36:42 Speaker 03 Yep.
36:44 Doug DeMuro? Then the now. So you are going to put 80s last? No, then the 80s, then the now. Wow, you think the 80s cars are better than today's cars? No, well, I'm not, by the standard of today, I'm not judging these by the standard of today. Should I be? Yes, of course.
36:59 Speaker 03 You're judging.
37:00 Doug DeMuro? What? Well, it's, it's, to me, it's more about like, how good were they at the, I mean, if, if you want me to judge stuff by the standard of today, then the SP3 is better than the F40. Then the, then the Cali T is better than the F40. We have to judge things by the, by what? Break it, that's cut that clip. Cali T. The Cali T is better than the Daytona. Okay, it could be, taking into account the. What happened in the time, I mean, I think. I stick by that. I think mine is right. 2000s and then 10s. 10s were good stuff. We were starting to get a little hybrid, we were starting to get a little automatic, but 90s, 90s, there were a lot of very rounded designs and not much power and bad quality. A lot of cars got plasticky and bad.
37:38 Speaker 03 But I would say from the beginning of the 90s to the end of the 90s, you gained a lot of power, like, everything got a lot better. Build quality got better, design got better, like, everything, the 90s were a really special time, and that transition into what we love in the early 2000s.
37:51 Doug DeMuro? Let me tell you, when I think 90s, I'm going to think about, I think about Akuras.
37:55 Speaker 03 Yep.
37:55 Doug DeMuro? With cloth seats and 15-inch alloys and, wait, this is going to drive the point home.
38:01 Speaker 04 Those long transmission levers that made a T at the top that you push the button in and then shift it into gear.
38:07 Doug DeMuro? But I also think about the Ford Explorer.
38:09 Speaker 04 Like, I, my, my.
38:10 Doug DeMuro? That was bad, too.
38:11 Speaker 04 But it was, but it created the modern era of cars.
38:15 Doug DeMuro? Cars got transmission problems, they rolled over with tire issues, and they recalled four billion of them in cash for clunkers and destroyed them because nobody wanted them.
38:23 Speaker 04 That was a lot of terms that did not make sense in US.
38:25 Doug DeMuro? They recalled them for cash. Yeah, the government said, bring them all back.
38:30 Speaker 03 As bad as the cars you've just spoken about were, there were some amazing cars that balanced it out.
38:36 Speaker 04 You're talking about the F-50?
38:37 Doug DeMuro? Specifically, you're talking about the F-50.
38:38 Speaker 03 McLaren F1, EB110.
38:41 Speaker 04 The 97 Accord?
38:43 Doug DeMuro? 993.
38:44 Speaker 03 993 Turbo S, like, I mean, they were really, I mean, it was.
38:48 Doug DeMuro? E395.
38:49 Speaker 03 E395, 1998, when it came out in Europe.
38:51 Doug DeMuro? Still, I prefer the 10s because the 10s gave us the 918 Spyder, which is an amazing automobile.
38:57 Speaker 03 Yes, you love it so much.
39:00 Doug DeMuro? No, the 10s gave us, the 10s, the 10s got us technology and goodness and reliability.
39:05 Speaker 03 And still had some, some analog in there.
39:07 Doug DeMuro? So my ranking is 2000s, 10s, 90s, 80s, now. What's yours?
39:13 Speaker 03 It's not far off that. It's not far off that.
39:16 Doug DeMuro? But yours is 90s after, after.
39:18 Speaker 03 I think 90s after 2000s and then the 10s, just because it's such a high.
39:22 Speaker 04 Are they, do you do 80s?
39:25 Doug DeMuro? Are better than the modern era?
39:26 Speaker 04 Or 80s?
39:27 Doug DeMuro? Wait, before you say anything, let me remind you about the Hyundai Kona. You plugged that thing in, dude. It's not even a car. Back in the 80s, you know what cars did? They go. And now, you know what cars do? They go.
39:37 Speaker 04 So you've never been around a Dodge Reliant, I take it?
39:41 Speaker 03 I think I agree with him. I think I agree with him.
39:43 Speaker 04 With who?
39:44 Speaker 03 Him.
39:45 Speaker 04 Him, huh?
39:46 Speaker 03 80s.
39:46 Speaker 04 All right, well, you guys are not going to agree with anything that I'm about to say.
39:49 Doug DeMuro? Okay, well, now, we're, we're in agreement with the first and last here.
39:51 Speaker 03 Filippo's gonna put it in reverse chronological order. That's.
39:54 Doug DeMuro? What do you have next? You're gonna agree with us, except you have 80s last instead of second to last. You're not gonna put 20s next.
39:58 Speaker 04 The issue with the contrary. Current era is that we are very much in a transitionary era. I think, like, cars are transitioning.
40:05 Speaker 03 Well, like, yeah, a lot of transitions in those years.
40:07 Speaker 04 Yeah, I mean, I think they all were.
40:08 Speaker 03 Every era is like that. We're always changing. It's never the same. I mean, even when the car came out, it changed every decade. A 1918.
40:16 Speaker 04 What I mean by that is.
40:17 Speaker 03 Underslung was very different from a 1928 Packard.
40:21 Doug DeMuro? What is going on?
40:22 Speaker 03 Which is different from a 1938, like, 1938 Accord, which is different from, you don't know what I'm talking about.
40:29 Speaker 03 My point is.
40:30 Doug DeMuro? Think about the underslung.
40:32 Speaker 04 Which is opposite, I know a lot about.
40:34 Speaker 03 Yeah, American underslung, it's a great look.
40:35 Speaker 04 The eighties were an era transition from like after the the fuel crisis into figuring out how to make cars that were relatively fuel efficient.
40:42 Doug DeMuro? Rank.
40:43 Speaker 04 And decent.
40:43 Doug DeMuro? The car.
40:44 Speaker 04 The the nineties were becoming the modern era, SUVs were becoming big, larger cars, Japanese really took hold and the Europeans really took hold in a meaningful way.
40:54 Doug DeMuro? Rank.
40:55 Speaker 04 Were the pinnacle, 2020s are a transitionary era into electric.
40:58 Doug DeMuro? Rank the cars.
41:01 Speaker 03 We understand your justification, you're trying to avoid the hate in the comments.
41:04 Doug DeMuro? No, I don't. Put 20s now.
41:06 Speaker 04 No, I don't.
41:07 Speaker 03 He does, deeply.
41:09 Doug DeMuro? Rank the cars.
41:11 Speaker 04 Nineties, second.
41:14 Doug DeMuro? So you're over here saying we're different from you.
41:16 Speaker 03 Yeah.
41:17 Doug DeMuro? You you got you got Ken's exact same ranking.
41:19 Speaker 04 No, no, we differ on 20s.
41:20 Doug DeMuro? So 2000s, 90s, 10s, 20s, oh, eight.
41:24 Speaker 03 We're more one.
41:25 Doug DeMuro? I will say, here's here's the interesting thing about these rankings, okay, I'm gonna hold them up, can you see me?
41:30 Speaker 04 Can you see it? Can you read it?
41:31 Doug DeMuro? Here's the interesting thing about these rankings, all of us put the 80s and the 20s last, so now and the oldest that we were given, and we all put the 2000s first. To me, the 2000s were kind of the the pinnacle of the combustion engine era. And it was before tech took over too much and just so many great cars came out of that era. It was the last era of that we could really get away with some of the stuff that happened.
41:57 Speaker 03 I think it was the, maybe the first time that the technology risen to the point where the cars were really fast, amazing to drive, reliable.
42:07 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
42:08 Speaker 03 And like, and they have longevity.
42:10 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
42:10 Speaker 03 It was the, it was, and the design was great, the sizing was nice, it was like.
42:14 Doug DeMuro? And and you weren't quite to the to the tech thing yet where you had big screens that are gonna become outdated, problematic and all that. It was quite a, quite a period.
42:24 Speaker 03 Little bits of it, but it was enough to put it off with because the cars were so amazing.
42:26 Doug DeMuro? It's also pretty amazing how, you know, if you compare an 80s car to a 2000s car, so 20 years. The performance difference is unbelievable.
42:34 Speaker 04 Yeah.
42:34 Doug DeMuro? If you compare, if you compare a good 2000s car to a modern car, performance difference isn't that significant.
42:40 Speaker 04 And that's notably different.
42:41 Doug DeMuro? Well, but in what way? I mean, yeah, a Plaid is faster than Carrera GT, but you're starting to get into a level that is unusable. Right? And, and it really isn't, isn't, if therefore it's not really effective, like where, whereas a car you bought in the 2000s that was a good car feels fast even by today's standards.
43:00 Speaker 03 I agree. And that's also, yeah. And that's why the values on those cars have gone up so dramatically. People have realized that is like.
43:06 Speaker 04 You're once again talking about supercars.
43:08 Doug DeMuro? No, not necessarily. Think about, think about when SRT launched and they had all those 6.1 Hemis with 425 horsepower. That, that was a legitimately, those were legitimately fast cars that still feel fast. I get into a Grand Cherokee SRT8 now or a Magnum SRT8, which I've never driven, but I get into one now. I think it's fast. A B7 RS4, I think is a fast car. Those were good. Those cars had modern performance. Which you can't say about the 80s. C506 is an example. Even normal cars, a Honda Accord 05 had 240 horsepower. That was enough.
43:36 Speaker 04 V6?
43:37 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
43:38 Speaker 04 I, yeah. I think the 2000s, especially early 2000s were the traditional car perfected. And then at that point, you have to, after that, you have to figure out, okay, how do I actually make this fuel efficient? How do I like adapt to?
43:51 Doug DeMuro? The traditional car perfected. And you know what? All this perfecting was done over all these years. Let me have the remark. All this perfecting was done over all these years. And you know where they got the very top? The pinnacle of perfecting?
44:03 Speaker 03 Oh, God.
44:03 Speaker 04 I will say.
44:04 Doug DeMuro? Pagani Zonda.
44:05 Speaker 04 05.
44:06 Speaker 03 Thank you.
44:06 Speaker 04 05 was kind of the end of the 2000s.
44:09 Doug DeMuro? No, I, I think, I think it went into 06, 07. I will say 08, 09 was starting to begin. The hybrids, the, the transition to automatics.
44:17 Speaker 04 Cost cutting was huge at that point.
44:19 Doug DeMuro? Four cylinders starting to replace V6s, which was sad for us. We liked the good 3 liter.
44:24 Speaker 04 There were no good GM products from after.
44:27 Doug DeMuro? Oh, that's true. The recession took hold and that killed some stuff. And also.
44:30 Speaker 04 Pre-recession took hold and killed some stuff.
44:32 Doug DeMuro? Well, 07, 08, 09.
44:33 Speaker 04 06, 05, laziness.
44:35 Doug DeMuro? I agree with you. I think that, I think that the 2000s, the sweet spot is about 02 to 07. For really the good stuff. The Tahoe hybrid was not part of the good stuff.
44:46 Speaker 04 No, but 20 MPG City.
44:49 Speaker 03 My gosh.
44:50 Doug DeMuro? Uh, which actually at the time, I looked this up the other day, at the time the Honda Pilot got 18 cities. So the Tahoe hybrid, well, that was actually pretty rare.
44:56 Speaker 03 We are off the rails. Hit us with the next question.
44:58 Doug DeMuro? Tony Soprano Suburban asks, if you could sterotify other sports cars from the modern era, which would you choose? That's a good question. You know, the 959 did it first.
45:07 Speaker 03 Yeah, it did. It did. For Dakar.
45:10 Doug DeMuro? If you could sterato-ify other sports cars from the modern era, what should you do? 911 is a good example, but they did it.
45:16 Speaker 03 R8. They did it.
45:18 Doug DeMuro? The R8 steratoed would be cool. They kind of did that. It's called the sterato. With the, with the, I'm thinking of the RA stick. For first gen.
45:27 Speaker 03 Lifted first gen. So wait, I'm sorry. The question was modern cars, so cars that are currently in production?
45:32 Doug DeMuro? Can I make, can I make a, a statement here?
45:34 Speaker 03 Sure.
45:34 Doug DeMuro? Mustang. Remember there was talk that we're gonna do this?
45:37 Speaker 03 There was.
45:38 Doug DeMuro? And when I thought about it, you know what I thought of? The Rallyfighter, the local motors Rallyfighter.
45:42 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah.
45:42 Doug DeMuro? Which is a lifted Mustang, but with Civic taillights.
45:45 Speaker 03 Yep.
45:47 Speaker 03 Tristan decision not out of space. I just, it's not that, it was a decision. I missed it. You don't know how hard this is. Go back to sleep.
45:54 Doug DeMuro? I'm gonna be honest, I did it once and I, that moment, learned how hard it is.
45:58 Speaker 03 I'll take the apology. Uh, but yes, the Rallyfighter.
46:00 Doug DeMuro? So this is when I, when they said off-road Mustang, this is what I thought they were gonna make. And instead what they made was nothing. Um, but.
46:06 Speaker 03 The Mustang Machi Rally, come on.
46:07 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, that is unfortunately what's happened. That would be cool. An off-road Mustang, I think would be cool.
46:11 Speaker 03 Yeah.
46:12 Doug DeMuro? Cause like, let's be honest, every Mustang guy has a truck or wants a truck. You know what I'm talking about?
46:17 Speaker 03 I know.
46:18 Doug DeMuro? Give them what they want.
46:20 Speaker 03 296 rally car would be pretty cool.
46:22 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, Ferraris are too fragile.
46:23 Speaker 03 Yeah, they, don't forget, they did the 308 rally car in the 1980s. That would be really.
46:27 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
46:28 Speaker 03 That would be really cool. Yeah. Did you know about that?
46:29 Doug DeMuro? No.
46:31 Doug DeMuro? It's got all sorts of Italian graphics on it. You'll love it.
46:34 Speaker 03 Again, missed it. Yeah, look at that.
46:38 Doug DeMuro? Oh, that is cool.
46:38 Speaker 03 Look at that, full opposite, uh, uh, pretty close to anything.
46:43 Speaker 03 Pretty cool.
46:43 Doug DeMuro? Nice.
46:44 Speaker 03 Anyway. 296 with those graphics on it.
46:47 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, Ferraris are too fragile.
46:48 Speaker 04 Yeah, the styling doesn't work for off-road.
46:50 Doug DeMuro? New NSX.
46:51 Speaker 03 New NSX, off-road new NSX.
46:53 Doug DeMuro? New Supra.
46:54 Speaker 04 TRD Pro.
46:55 Doug DeMuro? Yes.
46:56 Speaker 03 TRD Pro Supra.
46:58 Speaker 04 That works oddly.
46:59 Doug DeMuro? Uh, I don't know, all, to be honest, is the answer.
47:03 Speaker 03 I mean, any car that it's done to is cooler.
47:06 Doug DeMuro? There should be a off-road version of every new sports car.
47:09 Speaker 04 Hey, Stradman, if you're listening, go put some tank treads on the Supra you guys have.
47:13 Doug DeMuro? You think Stradman's gonna do this for us?
47:15 Speaker 04 I think there's a chance.
47:16 Doug DeMuro? Filippo, this, I think, is something that we have to do for ourselves.
47:20 Speaker 04 Maybe Stradman will beat us to it.
47:21 Doug DeMuro? Uh, what about the Challenger?
47:23 Speaker 04 Nah.
47:24 Speaker 03 Nah.
47:24 Doug DeMuro? Too big. What about the Z?
47:26 Speaker 03 Too heavy.
47:27 Speaker 04 Yeah.
47:29 Doug DeMuro? Uh, the answer is all of them. I would buy any and all. And by buy, I mean, think about buying and then not buy, like I did with the Strada. Although I got close.
47:35 Speaker 04 You got close.
47:36 Doug DeMuro? I was talking, I was, I remember walking around on Nantucket, talking to the dealer. Okay.
47:41 Speaker 03 Wow, geez, thanks, bless. Talk to your Lambo dealer on Nantucket.
47:45 Doug DeMuro? Okay, uh, I know, but that was, that's unusual. Okay. Today's episode is brought to you by True Classic, the makers of really, really nice shirts and other garments that actually fit. Look, I'm a style icon. My signature two t-shirts are known around the globe, but sometimes I want just one nice-fitting shirt that's comfortable in all the right areas while adding a bit of definition to my appearance. True Classic has one mission: to make sure guys look good and feel even better. And they've nailed fit, feel, and price across your entire wardrobe. Not just tees, but hoodies, jeans, activewear, everything you need to level up your everyday style.
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49:11 Doug DeMuro? Next question, next question from Paragon Bids for everyone. Realistically, how many years would it take for ICE cars? Internal combustion engine. To be a thing of the past? How long until they're just gone?
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49:50 Speaker 03 I think a lot longer than people realize, based on how things have been going recently.
49:56 Doug DeMuro? I don't think in our lifetimes.
49:57 Speaker 04 I don't think ever.
49:58 Speaker 03 No, I mean like gone isn't like true there none left on the planet or like in currently in production.
50:03 Doug DeMuro? He's looking at me. He knows he said something insane.
50:06 Speaker 04 I did say a little insane. I think.
50:07 Doug DeMuro? Ever. Like 2,000 years, you're gonna come back.
50:11 Speaker 04 Ever was not the answer.
50:12 Speaker 03 I'm gonna come back.
50:13 Speaker 04 I don't see that happening fully in the reasonable future.
50:19 Doug DeMuro? You mean in your lifetime, which in your opinion is.
50:21 Speaker 04 Or the subsequent one.
50:23 Speaker 03 I'm sorry.
50:23 Doug DeMuro? Or the subsequent one?
50:25 Speaker 03 Just clarify that to me again. So like, you mean there are none in production anymore? Like manufacturing?
50:29 Doug DeMuro? No, no, no, I'm not production. I think he's saying, how long would it take for the, the way I'm reading it? How long would it take for them to be a thing of the past? Like, like ICE cars are just something that you read about in history books. Now, let me ask you a question. Do you think horse and buggy is still around? Are you gonna sit here and be like, well, there are some people.
50:44 Speaker 04 Yes.
50:44 Doug DeMuro? I'm in country.
50:45 Speaker 04 Absolutely.
50:46 Doug DeMuro? Okay, so, so basically your point is horse and buggy never went away.
50:49 Speaker 04 I, I think that there will always be people that, that share it. And always meaning in modern civilization until that all collapses. There will be people that want to keep some small number of special cars running. Legitimately.
51:03 Speaker 03 Well, and like with synthetic fuels and stuff like that, I think it will.
51:07 Speaker 04 Not mainstream. Much sooner than that. But I think that there's, there's a long, long, long, long tail to that.
51:12 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
51:13 Speaker 03 Agreed.
51:13 Speaker 04 In production, 20 years.
51:14 Speaker 03 But I think our, I don't disagree. Our entire lifetimes will be able to hear an internal combustion engine. We'll probably own them.
51:21 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
51:22 Speaker 03 You won't.
51:23 Speaker 04 Nope.
51:24 Speaker 03 You won't go, really? You won't own your Fiat Panda 4x4?
51:28 Speaker 04 Nope.
51:29 Speaker 03 EV swap it.
51:31 Speaker 04 Um, cocky, imagine.
51:33 Doug DeMuro? I think that, I think that it's going to take an enormous amount of time.
51:37 Speaker 03 I, I genuinely think it will be generations.
51:41 Doug DeMuro? I think it's going to take an enormous amount of time for them to be gone, gone. Um, one of the things that I think about when I think about this is New Jersey's license plates. Uh, and I think you'd agree. All right, here's, here's my analogy. 1959, New Jersey comes out with a license plate. They've never replaced it. So if you, and you could keep transferring it. So in theory, you could have had this license plate since 1959 and always had it on your car forever. You could, to this day, the 1959 New Jersey license plate is still valid, okay? But what happened was, as the new ones come out, 85% of plates are gone within a couple of years. But there, you drive around New Jersey and you will still see a few of the old 1959 straw license plates,
52:24 Doug DeMuro? which are still available, which are still around on some cars. That's still valid. So I think that's going to be the same with ice cars.
52:32 Speaker 04 Yeah.
52:33 Doug DeMuro? You like that?
52:34 Speaker 04 You think any teens are driving around with the little red square?
52:36 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, absolutely. You'd see blue plates with the red square and those came out like early 80s.
52:39 Speaker 04 Wow.
52:40 Doug DeMuro? Uh, okay.
52:41 Speaker 04 In New Jersey, if you're a teenager, you have to put a little red square on the side of those.
52:45 Speaker 03 I, so, yeah, before, I mean, and even after that, they'll be relegated to museums and stuff like that.
52:50 Doug DeMuro? But I think. They'll be in museums, but I think that people, I, I agree that it's going to be a lot longer than people think. I think that it's going to, in our lifetimes, there will still be ice cars driving on the road, all like around.
52:59 Speaker 03 People love cars and ultimately like, I still think that there's something to gasoline engine that is exciting.
53:04 Speaker 04 At what point will?
53:04 Speaker 03 Whether it's in a one cylinder car from the late 1800s or now, like there's something fascinating.
53:09 Doug DeMuro? It's just hard to replace them and, and they're still being made in massive numbers, massive.
53:14 Speaker 04 At what point will they be less than 1% of like vehicles miles, miles, vehicle miles?
53:19 Doug DeMuro? Way, way in the future.
53:20 Speaker 03 And don't forget also, there are markets that depend on it. Like Africa is a continent, depends on diesel, like internal combustion.
53:26 Doug DeMuro? The concept that, that in a lot of these emerging markets, that EVs are going to take over tomorrow is like laughable. This is, this is like an, an American and European like luxury thing to even discuss it.
53:35 Speaker 03 Absolutely.
53:36 Doug DeMuro? Uh, okay. Yep. Next question from 172 Pilot. He has two questions, I'm only going to answer the, ask the second one, because it's gooder. What cars would you guys like to see heritage editions of, like the stronger than the 1980s G Y?
53:50 Speaker 04 Ooh.
53:50 Doug DeMuro? NSX.
53:52 Doug DeMuro? Right.
53:53 Speaker 04 What would that be?
53:53 Doug DeMuro? Okay, they take, they make a new car and they make it a manual and a V6.
53:58 Speaker 04 Oh, so it's just a different car entirely, not unlike the strong in the 80s.
54:01 Doug DeMuro? No, you know what they do?
54:02 Speaker 04 Paint color and a little script.
54:04 Doug DeMuro? Here's what they do. You call it the 1990s reboot version. You make the new NSX, but without the hybrid stuff and with a V6.
54:12 Speaker 04 So you want an entirely different car?
54:14 Doug DeMuro? No, the current NSX, the existing.
54:17 Speaker 04 With a different powertrain?
54:18 Doug DeMuro? No, same powertrain, just pull off the hybrid stuff.
54:21 Speaker 04 It's a different powertrain?
54:22 Doug DeMuro? No, no, no, no, no. I think of hybrid powertrains as like a blanket. You can take the blanket off and you still have the person sleeping underneath. Do you understand what I'm saying?
54:31 Speaker 04 You have tortured so many metaphors today.
54:35 Doug DeMuro? And you hook that person up to a manual transmission.
54:38 Speaker 04 A different powertrain.
54:38 Doug DeMuro? And you got yourself an NSX 1990s reboot edition. Akira, if you're listening to me, for God's sake, this is an opportunity.
54:46 Speaker 04 I think that that's a good product planning suggestion, but not in the spirit of the question.
54:54 Doug DeMuro? Okay, okay, fine. What do you have then?
54:57 Speaker 04 I think it would be cool for some manufacturers to do, like the 80s and 90s cars. And we see this in the Japanese cars that we get submitted and in the European ones has like cool fabrics and like weird funky designs. Like they used like the field multiplier, had color fabric everywhere, had weird seat designs. I think you could like make a regular, normal car, like a new Grand Highlander. But like make it a little funky.
55:21 Doug DeMuro? Okay.
55:22 Speaker 04 Or the Jetta Jon Bon Jovi edition.
55:26 Doug DeMuro? Okay.
55:26 Speaker 04 Something like, just like vaguely reminiscent.
55:29 Doug DeMuro? Those are Filippo, that's a Filippo idea. Like take a car and just make, it's like slightly different seat pattern.
55:33 Speaker 04 Which is literally what the Heritage Edition is.
55:36 Doug DeMuro? Here's what I'm telling you. No, but they did the old wheels and they did the old paint colors. They did the orange turn signals. They made it look like an old car. That's the point. Because the old car is an icon, whereas an old Grand Highlander is not an icon. However, I got an idea.
55:50 Speaker 04 Okay.
55:51 Doug DeMuro? New Ford GT, old Ford GT edition. You take the new Ford GT, is there a hybrid powertrain in that, like a blanket? Do you have to remove that?
55:59 Speaker 04 No.
55:59 Doug DeMuro? You're good. You put a manual transmission in there.
56:03 Speaker 04 Oh, sure, easy.
56:04 Doug DeMuro? Well, you'd have a packaging issue because there's no room between the seats. But you know what you do? You get rid of the passenger seat.
56:10 Speaker 04 Wow, make it an SP1. Rich dude wants to be alone.
56:16 Speaker 03 You know, I'm really struggling with this because like I was thinking again, in my terms along exotic cars. Ferrari kind of did this with the 70th anniversary cars. They did a bunch of different weird, cool like callbacks to their old heritage, which is like appearances. But that's not really what we're looking at here. We want something that's even more.
56:33 Doug DeMuro? The Wrangler could do it. The Wrangler does, the Wrangler, they do do it. They do like Willis versions.
56:38 Speaker 04 But they can go further. They could change the headlights to look more like.
56:41 Doug DeMuro? They, Jeep, Jeep does it. They do colors. They do like old graphics and stuff like that.
56:45 Speaker 03 I'm really stumped. I'm going to have to think more on this one. I do think the stronger than 1980s G-Wagon is.
56:50 Doug DeMuro? Brilliant. It's really good. Now, you could make an argument. The other iconic car from that era was the 911 and you could, you could like do like a, like a fake impact bumper and like old Fuchs's and like.
56:59 Speaker 03 That would be cool.
57:00 Doug DeMuro? And like a, like a whale tail that looked like that. But I think Porsche is one of those companies. Porsche does do some heritage stuff, but I think they're one of those companies that is more like Ferrari, like we're, we've always been setting design trends. We're going to keep doing that instead of like go back to the old days.
57:12 Speaker 03 I do, yeah. I, I don't know. I'm going too far there. I'm, I'm stuck in my mind. It's like the Renault R5 Turbo thing, the electric that's coming out is like.
57:18 Doug DeMuro? That's a good, that's a good example.
57:20 Speaker 03 That's, I love that.
57:21 Doug DeMuro? Here's one. Here's one. Here's one.
57:24 Speaker 04 Cut it.
57:25 Doug DeMuro? Hyundai Ioniq 5 XL Edition, okay?
57:29 Speaker 04 Yeah.
57:30 Doug DeMuro? They make it look like the Hyundai XL from 1986.
57:33 Speaker 04 Jeep, I, I guess in this case, the G-Wagon stronger in the 80s does look like the old G-Wagon.
57:38 Speaker 03 Yeah.
57:38 Speaker 04 But that's by happenstance, not.
57:40 Doug DeMuro? No, no. Pull up an Ioniq 5. Pull up a Hyundai XL hatchback. Pull up a Hyundai XL hatchback. Type in Hyundai XL hatchback. You can type in Pony if you want. That's what it was called in some markets. A hatchback. I don't want to see any sedans.
57:51 Speaker 04 No, we certainly don't.
57:52 Doug DeMuro? And I really would prefer not to see alloys. Some of those cars had alloys. That's not, yeah, give me, give me, give me that. That's the Hyundai XL. That, the Ioniq 5 doesn't look that different from this car, okay?
58:03 Speaker 03 Wow, that is a rough one.
58:04 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, it's, there's no nice one, even in new. You do an IONIQ 5 with these wheels, with some faded paint, with cloth seats, right? With an old time seatbelt chime, you know what I'm saying?
58:17 Speaker 04 You know, the seatbelt tracks for no reason.
58:19 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
58:19 Speaker 03 There is something to having base models and like having steel wheels.
58:23 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
58:23 Speaker 03 There is something to that.
58:24 Doug DeMuro? Ooh, and call it the XL Edition?
58:26 Speaker 03 Call it the XL.
58:27 Doug DeMuro? I think the automakers want to make money, though, and I think more base models is not there. It's not really in the card.
58:32 Speaker 03 No, but I mean Mercedes is doing it, right? I mean, the strong of the 1980s has steel wheels and kind of looks very basey, but they're charging a ludicrous amount of money for it.
58:39 Doug DeMuro? Yeah. Truthfully, this really only works for cars where we are nostalgic about the old versions.
58:44 Speaker 03 Yeah.
58:44 Doug DeMuro? And we're not nostalgic about that many old versions.
58:47 Speaker 03 No.
58:48 Doug DeMuro? In a way that you could bring it into the modern era.
58:51 Speaker 03 Right, they haven't not, and also, the reason it works with the Mercedes is, like you said, it's a continued lineage, so you can go back to points along it. So there aren't that many cars that have been, the lineage has been in production for...
59:01 Doug DeMuro? I mean, and think about, think about somewhere they've tried it and it hasn't worked. The T-Bird.
59:05 Speaker 03 True.
59:06 Doug DeMuro? Yikes, right?
59:07 Speaker 03 I have a soft spot for it, but yeah, I agree.
59:09 Doug DeMuro? Uh, but, but it doesn't, the new Countach.
59:13 Speaker 03 New Countach is probably the best example of that, yeah.
59:15 Doug DeMuro? It doesn't always work.
59:16 Speaker 03 Yeah.
59:16 Doug DeMuro? Mercedes did it well. Okay, uh, two or three more questions. Okay, next question from Liberty. Liberty, but it's spelled without any vowels.
59:25 Speaker 03 Oh.
59:26 Doug DeMuro? What is one car manufacturer that makes regular-ish cars that you most want to see make a halo car? Some examples of this happening was like the 4GT, the first gen Audi A8. This is a great question because one of my favorite types of cars is normal cars, companies that make supercars. The 4GT and the 4GT are both these, and I think that these are the best. Porsche makes Macans, dude. Don't look at me like that, he's looking at me.
59:48 Speaker 04 Porsche has a strong history of making some of the best sports cars.
59:52 Doug DeMuro? Okay, fine, but these days, they make 40 times more four-cylinder SUVs that lease for $799.
59:58 Speaker 04 I'm not giving you the 4GT as a halo. I mean, it was a halo car, but it was not a regular car company.
1:00:02 Doug DeMuro? The point, though, is a good one, which is that Porsche, unlike Ferrari, Porsche like knows how to build a car that needs to last for 200,000 miles.
1:00:09 Speaker 04 Ford, Ford, I will give you. Ford, I will give you.
1:00:12 Doug DeMuro? The 4GT is a good, the 4GT is, to an extent, is a good example. It's not quite in keeping with the question, but it's clearly not like Lamborghini or Ferrari, right? Like Porsche is more of a, so the question is, who do you want to do it? I'll tell you the answer. Honda.
1:00:23 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:00:23 Doug DeMuro? They make the greatest manual transmissions, they give us the fantastic NSX, the original.
1:00:28 Speaker 03 The NSX.
1:00:29 Doug DeMuro? Well, okay, yeah, give me that back.
1:00:31 Speaker 04 I was gonna say Toyota. Because they make, they've taken a turn for sportier lately, and sportier and off-roading. And I think it would be cool to see what they come up with if they were tasked with a Halo car.
1:00:46 Speaker 03 I am curious.
1:00:46 Doug DeMuro? We did see a Halo car from them once and it wasn't all that great.
1:00:49 Speaker 04 I know you hate the LFA. I know you hate the LFA.
1:00:51 Speaker 03 Love it.
1:00:52 Speaker 04 But they've taken very much a turn towards sportier again. And off-road sportier. And I think an off-road Halo car would be cool too.
1:00:59 Speaker 03 If the LFA had had a dual clutch, then how would you review that, review that car?
1:01:03 Doug DeMuro? If the LFA had a stick, it'd be cool. And if it looked good. So if the LFA made two big changes. Its complete design and its complete powertrain.
1:01:11 Speaker 03 I think it looks cool.
1:01:11 Doug DeMuro? I think it would then be a good car. Now, maybe then they could have sold them. The correct answer for this is actually Cadillac.
1:01:18 Speaker 04 They have a Halo car. The Escalade IQ.
1:01:20 Doug DeMuro? No, their Halo car is called the...
1:01:22 Speaker 04 Celestique.
1:01:22 Doug DeMuro? Celestique.
1:01:23 Speaker 03 Celestique.
1:01:24 Doug DeMuro? Celestique. Okay.
1:01:25 Speaker 04 That's not cute. It's not real.
1:01:26 Doug DeMuro? And it's obviously insane. It's electric. Nobody wants it. What we want to see Cadillac build...
1:01:31 Speaker 04 It looks cool.
1:01:32 Doug DeMuro? We want to see Cadillac build the C-N.
1:01:34 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:01:34 Doug DeMuro? Which I tried to buy.
1:01:35 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:01:36 Doug DeMuro? And until they do that, we can't take them seriously as an automaker. By the way, Lincoln is also, should also do that.
1:01:43 Speaker 04 Can I ask you a question? Okay, a Halo car, we all assume needs to be a sports car.
1:01:47 Doug DeMuro? It does.
1:01:47 Speaker 04 What is Mercedes-Benz's Halo car right now?
1:01:50 Doug DeMuro? G-Wagon.
1:01:51 Speaker 04 Right. That's what my point.
1:01:53 Speaker 03 The Project One is technically...
1:01:55 Speaker 04 Nah. G-Wagon is clearly their Halo car. So they need to be a sports car.
1:02:00 Speaker 03 They would tell you it's...
1:02:01 Doug DeMuro? How about BMW? By the way, I actually legitimately think that Cadillac and Lincoln are good answers here. At the end of the day, Cadillac outsells Lincoln 3 to 1, and both are outsold by Lexus and Mercedes-Benz, BMW, et cetera. If only those brands would, would... Lincoln is trying to lean into this luxury thing, but I think what they're forgetting is that like, a lot of interest comes to a car company because young people and enthusiasts are excited. That's how the Navigator got off the ground in the first place 25 years ago. And what I want to, I want to shake these brands, Cadillac included, and be like, guys, get young people first. And Cadillac figured that out to an extent with the V-line. Like, they really went hard with V, and it has paid off. Like Cadillac has it. When I was a kid, it's hard to explain how elderly and uncool Cadillac was.
1:02:43 Speaker 03 STS, the
1:02:44 Doug DeMuro? The standard of the world. Give me a break. The standard of the world in retirement communities, all the way from Des Moines to Indianapolis, you know? And, and that is, that is totally different now. It's not, it's still not quite on the level of the Germans, but it is way further. And Lincoln, as wonderful as Lincoln, new Lincolns are, and they are wonderful. They still haven't got a cool image that I think would, would, would be successful. And we all know that Ford makes some pretty cool sports cars. You know what you do? You make a Mustang Lincoln.
1:03:10 Speaker 04 Or a
1:03:11 Speaker 03 Better known as the Cougar.
1:03:13 Doug DeMuro? Better known as the Cougar.
1:03:14 Speaker 04 Or Bronco.
1:03:15 Doug DeMuro? Or Bronco, like I already They ever
1:03:17 Speaker 04 All comes back to Doug's
1:03:18 Speaker 03 I would love to see BMW do a supercar, but they just, they refuse to.
1:03:22 Doug DeMuro? I think one of the reasons
1:03:23 Speaker 03 They refuse to.
1:03:23 Doug DeMuro? You know, I think about this a lot, and I think one of the reasons BMW refuses to make a supercar is because they've tried several times and failed every time they've tried.
1:03:31 Speaker 03 Right, well, try better.
1:03:32 Speaker 04 I think the other
1:03:33 Speaker 03 Do it.
1:03:33 Speaker 04 Point is like, do they need that halo car? Their, their, their
1:03:36 Speaker 03 No, no.
1:03:36 Speaker 04 Sports cars are already revered. Generally, if U M three comes out, everybody's excited.
1:03:40 Speaker 03 No, I agree, but like they're the only German manufacturer that doesn't do it.
1:03:43 Doug DeMuro? It's also weird that they don't try to do it because
1:03:46 Speaker 03 They tell me they can't figure it out.
1:03:47 Doug DeMuro? That space is really lucrative.
1:03:49 Speaker 03 It is.
1:03:50 Doug DeMuro? BMW could have gone the Porsche route, had a Porsche type car and go, and now be making GT threes that cost 350 grand and are laughably embarrassing to look at. They could be doing that and they never really
1:03:59 Speaker 03 No, they just stayed with their little boxy sedans.
1:04:02 Doug DeMuro? Which worked.
1:04:02 Speaker 03 Fine, it worked, but like I, and that's what I love them for.
1:04:04 Doug DeMuro? And instead they make the XM.
1:04:06 Speaker 04 Which, by the way
1:04:06 Speaker 03 The M1, they could have built upon that DNA and done some, they just, they never
1:04:10 Doug DeMuro? It was a failure.
1:04:11 Speaker 04 Yeah. And don't forget BMW M.
1:04:13 Speaker 03 Well, yeah, they trusted Lamborghini. That was a mistake.
1:04:16 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, everybody who has ever trusted Lamborghini has regretted it except for the Mimran brothers.
1:04:22 Speaker 04 And even they Obviously BMW M has done a custom car.
1:04:27 Doug DeMuro? The XM.
1:04:28 Speaker 03 Right, yes.
1:04:30 Speaker 04 Hey, it's the only one they built.
1:04:31 Speaker 03 The BMW Sirius XM.
1:04:33 Doug DeMuro? Such trash. Okay, uh, one and a half more questions.
1:04:36 Speaker 04 Cap.
1:04:37 Doug DeMuro? Next question from Larry the Car Guy. Hey Doug, what is the best US state for car spotting that isn't California?
1:04:43 Speaker 04 Florida.
1:04:44 Doug DeMuro? Montana, obviously.
1:04:47 Doug DeMuro? Yeah.
1:04:47 Speaker 03 They're all, they're all there.
1:04:49 Doug DeMuro? They're all crazy up there. If you were an alien that came to America, you'd be like, I gotta go see this Montana place. There's so many cool cars.
1:04:56 Speaker 03 Yep. Miami is pretty good.
1:04:57 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, Florida. Florida's good. You're never gonna see anything old or, or like, um, like, like iconic.
1:05:04 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:05:04 Doug DeMuro? It's mostly newer stuff. Connecticut in the summer, uh, or, or north of New York, like Westchester, Rye, that whole area, north of New York. Even Bedford, like those areas are pretty nice in the summer. Southwestern Connecticut, New Canaan, there's some really crazy stuff that goes through there. If you just drive on the backroads, you'll eventually see some serious cars.
1:05:21 Speaker 03 But all year long, you can see them right here in California.
1:05:23 Doug DeMuro? But all year long, if you're in the Orange County coast, any day of the week, you might see a Chiron, a Koenigsegg, or an F40.
1:05:29 Speaker 03 As we have done.
1:05:30 Doug DeMuro? Never seen an F50 though.
1:05:32 Speaker 03 Not yet.
1:05:33 Doug DeMuro? Okay, this is the last question, and it's gonna really rankle Filippo.
1:05:37 Speaker 03 Oh no.
1:05:39 Doug DeMuro? From Eden07, rank all generations of the Mustang. Oh, I've been thinking about this one.
1:05:44 Speaker 03 Man, this is what you end with? This is like ending with the uphill marathon.
1:05:48 Doug DeMuro? Okay. Let's go through the generations. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make this easy for you. I'm gonna go through the generations. There have been seven. Yeah. Okay? The first generation apparently was, was all the way through 1974. So it includes like the, when they got big in the late 60s and early 70s, like, you know what I'm talking about? Like this car.
1:06:05 Speaker 03 Yep.
1:06:05 Doug DeMuro? Okay, that's included in the first gen. So the second gen was the, the second gen was the Mustang 2. Okay? So are you writing these down? Yeah. The second gen was the Mustang 2. You know the Mustang 2? I do. Then the Fox body.
1:06:21 Speaker 03 Yep.
1:06:22 Doug DeMuro? Then the SN95, which I, which I'm just gonna tell you right now, the controversy will begin when we talk about the SN95.
1:06:28 Speaker 03 Yeah, cuz are we splitting that with the new Edge or is that all?
1:06:31 Doug DeMuro? Yes, we are. One generation. So it's gonna be, it's gonna be, okay. Then the fifth gen, which came out in 05. Yep. What was the fifth gen called? I can't remember right now. Uh, it was called S197. S197, right, right. Then the sixth gen, which came out in 15, the S550, and then the new body. What is the new body called? S650 somehow.
1:06:47 Speaker 03 Alright, I'll start.
1:06:48 Doug DeMuro? First gen.
1:06:50 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's an icon.
1:06:52 Doug DeMuro? First gens first.
1:06:53 Speaker 03 It transformed American cars like it was one of the greatest names ever given to a car is without question.
1:06:59 Doug DeMuro? I think that's true. Now, the commenters are going to argue with us because they argued with C2 being the first Corvette, even though we unanimously agreed on it instantly. I think the commenters in a lot of cases are a little bit too young to really, specifically on Instagram, are a little bit too young to really understand the impact the C2 Corvette had on automotive design globally and on the Mustang had on the car.
1:07:19 Speaker 04 Totally.
1:07:19 Doug DeMuro? The Mustang, the first gen, we all also, you ask any person that's our age, hey, what do you wish your first car was? The Mustang that their elderly neighbor, like, everybody wants that early. That's right. Like, what, yeah, what do you dream up? Right, right.
1:07:31 Speaker 04 Pre-whatever we're calling first gen, early first gen.
1:07:34 Doug DeMuro? Even the later ones still became very, it's funny, it evolved into an also very cool car.
1:07:40 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:07:41 Speaker 03 Then after that, I'm going to say S550.
1:07:44 Doug DeMuro? Okay, that's reasonable. That was an amazing car.
1:07:47 Speaker 03 It's a really good car. The 5.0 is great. The GT350, 350 are some of the best American cars I've ever driven.
1:07:54 Doug DeMuro? You are? Okay, I'm going to say, I'm going to say second, the fifth gen, the S197, the 05.
1:08:00 Speaker 03 All for reason.
1:08:00 Doug DeMuro? It's hard to explain, it's hard to explain what impact the 05 Mustang had. I was a kid then, I was 17 in 05, and the Mustang had languished. Like, I grew up not really caring that much about Mustangs because it had been a crappy car for my entire life, honestly. And then the 05 came out, they went to the retro styling, they put a big V6 in, they put a great V8 in. It was, obviously, the S6, the S550 and 650 have built upon that as better cars, but the S197 changed the Mustang's look forever. It went back to the retro, and the next two gens have basically kept that look, just modernizing it, and it just, it improved the quality, it improved the desirability, the car totally changed.
1:08:41 Doug DeMuro? And Filippo has taken my, my statement here and has put the S197s next on his list.
1:08:48 Speaker 03 I would put it next as well.
1:08:49 Doug DeMuro? I will put the S550 third on my list.
1:08:52 Speaker 04 And then we all agree on the Fox body after it?
1:08:53 Doug DeMuro? Nope.
1:08:56 Doug DeMuro? I want to talk about the new edge for a second.
1:09:00 Speaker 03 I knew this was coming. Okay, here we go.
1:09:02 Doug DeMuro? The new edge gave us the Terme Cobra.
1:09:05 Speaker 03 Terme Cobra.
1:09:05 Doug DeMuro? If I was ranking the Mustangs would be top three.
1:09:08 Speaker 03 Yep.
1:09:09 Doug DeMuro? The Terme Cobra, if I was ranking individual Mustangs, would be top three.
1:09:13 Speaker 03 Yep. I don't, yeah.
1:09:14 Speaker 04 Let's go back to what you said literally a moment ago. The Mustang had languished till the S197 came out. It had languished. We didn't care about it at all. All right. What Mustang was that? The new edge.
1:09:23 Speaker 03 Well, but to his point, it's like the Diablo will replace that. If you were talking SE30, it would be in the top.
1:09:29 Speaker 04 If, if, if it had been better as a generation, it wouldn't have languished to the point that redesigning it would have been the second best Mustang ever.
1:09:36 Doug DeMuro? That's a good point. But, but the Terme Cobra, I think at least once a week about buying a Terme Cobra. And I don't think anymore about buying any cars.
1:09:45 Speaker 04 No, who doesn't?
1:09:46 Doug DeMuro? And occasionally I'll see a Terme Cobra and be like, God, if I had one of those. If only I had one. No, you never see them, especially in California. Terme Cobra and it had the Cobra R.
1:09:54 Speaker 03 Yeah. Oh, love the Cobra.
1:09:56 Doug DeMuro? It had the cool Mach 1, the blue Mach 1.
1:09:59 Speaker 04 I'm familiar.
1:10:00 Doug DeMuro? It had the bad Cobra that they lied about the.
1:10:03 Speaker 03 Yeah, power.
1:10:04 Doug DeMuro? Power. So there's some, some fun going on. It had the original 94 to 98 body Cobra, which was cool with the silver five spokes.
1:10:10 Speaker 04 So really just like SVT. Who, who doesn't?
1:10:12 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, the base cars were pretty bad.
1:10:14 Speaker 04 Um, I, you're putting S95 fourth. I am absolutely not doing.
1:10:18 Doug DeMuro? No, no, I'm not doing that. I'm just having a conversation. It's like when Joe Rogan, I'm just asking questions.
1:10:25 Speaker 04 Ken, what do you put fourth?
1:10:26 Doug DeMuro? By the way, last is Mustang 2. We all agree last.
1:10:28 Speaker 03 Absolutely.
1:10:30 Speaker 04 I'm gonna put the S95 second to last.
1:10:33 Doug DeMuro? By the way, not putting the new body on is starting to get a little sketchy here.
1:10:36 Speaker 04 I'm gonna put the S560 second last.
1:10:38 Doug DeMuro? Oh my God.
1:10:39 Speaker 04 S650, sorry, S650.
1:10:40 Doug DeMuro? The new Mustang is a great car.
1:10:42 Speaker 04 It's really not better than an S550 in any way, and it looks worse and it's not better.
1:10:47 Doug DeMuro? It's vast. The, the, the, the, the Dark Horse has like 900.
1:10:54 Speaker 04 The market agrees with me and the fact that it's incredibly undesirable.
1:10:57 Doug DeMuro? It's not that it's undesirable. I have a long rant about this that I've never told on the pod, but I just think coupes, two door cars in general are, have just kind of lost.
1:11:06 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:11:06 Doug DeMuro? Appeal, appeal. And I don't think the Mustang is, Camaro's gone. I mean, everybody's like, oh, the Mustang is slow, is selling slowly. Yeah, the Camaro's selling even slower. Zero.
1:11:17 Doug DeMuro? Like it isn't, it's not the fault of the Mustang that the market has changed what it wants. And I think it's still a really good car. It's definitely not as good as the previous.
1:11:26 Speaker 03 I gotta say, Filippo, you've been in a Fox body?
1:11:28 Speaker 04 No, I have not.
1:11:30 Doug DeMuro? Dude, I've been on a Fox body. You know what it is?
1:11:32 Speaker 04 Oh, I have been in a Fox body.
1:11:33 Doug DeMuro? Big cheap power.
1:11:35 Speaker 04 I have been in a Fox body. My father-in-law has a convertible.
1:11:37 Speaker 03 Brilliant. You think you'd rather have that?
1:11:39 Doug DeMuro? Your father-in-law had a convertible Fox body?
1:11:41 Speaker 04 He still has it.
1:11:42 Doug DeMuro? He does now?
1:11:43 Speaker 04 Uh huh.
1:11:44 Speaker 03 No way.
1:11:45 Doug DeMuro? Why did we all know this? It was a stick. It's a stick.
1:11:48 Speaker 04 It's a stick convertible.
1:11:49 Doug DeMuro? It's a stick 5.0? Late or early?
1:11:52 Speaker 04 I'm trying to, there's a lot of modifications.
1:11:54 Doug DeMuro? No way!
1:11:55 Speaker 04 Uh, yeah.
1:11:56 Speaker 03 Wow, so he starts it up.
1:11:58 Speaker 04 At the moment, it's having some issues. Uh, the S550 is so good that it makes the follow-up being so disappointing. It pushes the follow-up down even though it's not a bad car.
1:12:08 Speaker 03 Pushes it down to the Mustang 2.
1:12:10 Speaker 04 Well, above the Mustang 2. But I'm saying the first S550.
1:12:13 Doug DeMuro? You think the New Edge is worse than the new body? Come on, Filippo!
1:12:19 Speaker 04 As a car, yes, but in the broader scheme.
1:12:21 Doug DeMuro? No, a race. I'm not gonna let you get away with that. Switch the new body and the SN95. You don't like the SN95. I'm the only SN95 Defender sitting here.
1:12:29 Speaker 04 I like the newest Mustang less.
1:12:33 Doug DeMuro? Oh, that's, that's a, that's a, the worst take I've ever heard in my entire life. So I got first gen, I got 05, I got S550. My list is looking great so far. Now, the internet wants me to say Fox body next.
1:12:44 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:12:44 Doug DeMuro? And I'm gonna.
1:12:46 Speaker 04 Great. And then what?
1:12:47 Doug DeMuro? And then the new car.
1:12:49 Speaker 04 And so after all that about the Cobra, you're putting it second to last?
1:12:55 Doug DeMuro? Fine. It's indefensible. That car is indefensible. I love.
1:12:59 Speaker 04 So is the car.
1:13:00 Doug DeMuro? And by the way, by the way, something else I want to say about the New Edge. 94 to 98 was the beginning of the SN95.
1:13:06 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:13:07 Doug DeMuro? It wasn't edgy.
1:13:08 Speaker 04 No.
1:13:09 Doug DeMuro? The New Edge came out in 99.
1:13:10 Speaker 04 Barely edgy, in retrospect.
1:13:12 Doug DeMuro? The New Edge was edgy.
1:13:14 Speaker 03 It did, it got, the taillights in particular.
1:13:16 Doug DeMuro? If the new edge had come out initially, I think we'd be having different conversations here. I think the 94 to 98 souled the SN95 so greatly. That is a nice looking car. You know what?
1:13:28 Speaker 03 That is a nice car.
1:13:30 Speaker 04 Are you gonna agree with me then?
1:13:31 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:13:32 Speaker 04 You gonna agree that S650 stuck in the last?
1:13:34 Doug DeMuro? No.
1:13:35 Speaker 04 Well?
1:13:36 Doug DeMuro? No.
1:13:36 Speaker 04 You wanna, you wanna listen to Fox Body?
1:13:38 Doug DeMuro? I can't, I can't do that to the Fox Body. It just meant so much to so many people.
1:13:42 Speaker 04 It did indeed.
1:13:43 Speaker 03 And still does.
1:13:44 Doug DeMuro? Bruce Springsteen wouldn't exist without the Fox Body Mustang.
1:13:46 Speaker 04 I don't think it's a great car, but it's iconic.
1:13:48 Doug DeMuro? You simply listened to Bruce Springsteen in your Fox Body in 1987? I mean, it's just what you did. There wasn't, there wasn't a discussion about it. It's just how it went. Look at those foxes.
1:14:01 Speaker 04 That 92 red one is...
1:14:04 Doug DeMuro? Man. Okay, uh, okay, that's my list. So my list is first gen, 197, 550, Fox, 650, SN95, Mustang.
1:14:13 Speaker 04 All right, Cannon, finish it off.
1:14:14 Doug DeMuro? Cannon, finish it up.
1:14:16 Speaker 03 All right, I think I'm going to put, after the S192, I'm gonna put...
1:14:20 Speaker 04 S197.
1:14:21 Speaker 03 S197, I'm gonna put the, it's hard, because I like a lot of versions...
1:14:25 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:14:26 Speaker 03 Of the SN95 more than I do the Fox Body. So I think I...
1:14:31 Speaker 04 SN95, third, fourth.
1:14:33 Doug DeMuro? Oh wow, you, wow.
1:14:34 Speaker 03 Then the Fox.
1:14:34 Doug DeMuro? You had the balls to do what I wanted to do.
1:14:37 Speaker 03 Yep.
1:14:37 Doug DeMuro? And then the new one, you guys are nuts. I gotta get a new one thing in here.
1:14:40 Speaker 03 The new one is, the new one is so good, and I just wish there was someplace that, the problem is, these ones are so good in the middle. It's really a...
1:14:47 Doug DeMuro? This was a lot harder than the Range Rover thing, which was... Woo, okay!
1:14:51 Speaker 03 Because these are actually good cars.
1:14:53 Doug DeMuro? There's, some of them are good cars. Not all.
1:14:55 Speaker 04 I will say, the S650 is not a bad car. I'm just disappointed by the lack of improvement.
1:14:59 Doug DeMuro? The worst Mustang ever was the 94 to 98, six cylinder...
1:15:04 Speaker 03 Oh yeah.
1:15:05 Doug DeMuro? Uh, SN95.
1:15:06 Speaker 04 Yep.
1:15:06 Doug DeMuro? Pull, pull up an SN95.
1:15:08 Speaker 04 Or, or according to Cannon, the, the fourth to last.
1:15:11 Speaker 03 No, it's, I, in totality, Phillip, those are so good.
1:15:14 Doug DeMuro? Most of these are new edge. We don't, we don't even really sell, go to lowest price, because that's where it would be.
1:15:19 Speaker 03 That's where it'll be.
1:15:19 Speaker 04 Nope.
1:15:20 Doug DeMuro? Even these, I actually didn't mind the GTs. We've never hosted a V6.
1:15:23 Speaker 04 No, we have not.
1:15:24 Doug DeMuro? Well... There you go.
1:15:27 Speaker 04 I love that. I love seeing old listings. The 1995 Ford Mustang GT from 2020, we referred to as really nice.
1:15:35 Doug DeMuro? Yeah, we were a little. Look at that. Look at that 94 GT. To be honest, though, for the money in the upper right there.
1:15:40 Speaker 04 Yep.
1:15:41 Doug DeMuro? 6,200 bucks for a one-owner manual V8 convertible.
1:15:44 Speaker 04 Three-spoke or six-spoke, depending how you look at it.
1:15:45 Doug DeMuro? I wrote this one. You can have more fun than this for 6,200 bucks?
1:15:49 Speaker 04 No.
1:15:50 Doug DeMuro? I don't think you can. Tough interior, though. Then again, they put it in the paint. I was Esperanto. Okay, that's our pod for this week. Thank you for the questions. We'll be back to Normal Pod next week doing our normal segments. And you can ask us questions, carsandbids.com, and then click on the community tab. This was not our best podcast ever. Do you agree?
1:16:08 Speaker 04 It was up there.
1:16:09 Doug DeMuro? Okay. Goodbye, everyone. Goodbye.
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