Space news: Project Hail Mary, Artemis, data centers

Short Wavers, we hear your requests. You want MORE! SPACE! So this is the first installment of a new segment focusing only on space news. First, we talk about the new sci-fi film Project Hail Mary and the accuracy of the science in the movie. Then, we move on to data centers in orbit, if they are better for the environment and why even send them up into space. Finally, we round out the conversation with a quick update about the upcoming Artemis II launch. The space nerds assembled for this conversation are host and astrophysicist Regina G Barber https://www.npr.org/people/1082526815/regina-g-barber, known space enthusiast and host of All Things Considered Scott Detrow https://www.npr.org/people/444796749/scott-detrow and NPR science correspondent Geoff Brumfiel https://www.npr.org/people/279612138/geoff-brumfiel. Interested in more on space? Check out our whole summer series, Space Camp https://www.npr.org/series/g-s1-3299/short-wave-space-camp. Or email us your question at [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. Listen to every episode of Short Wave sponsor-free and support our work at NPR by signing up for Short Wave+ at plus.npr.org/shortwave http://plus.npr.org/shortwave. See pcm.adswizz.com https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:22Regina Barber?

  Hey, Short Wavers. Regina Barber here. And if you've been listening to this show for any time at all, you probably know that I'm a formally trained physicist with a focus in astrophysics because I love all things space. Basically, I am all about any chance to learn more about, you know, everything. So I am so excited because today, we're going to try something new, something I've been workshopping with colleagues for a while. We're dedicating this entire episode to nerding out about a bunch of space news. And with the power vested in me as host, I'm summoning friends from around NPR to do just that. And who better to do that for this inaugural episode than science correspondent Jeff Bromfield? Hey, Jeff.

• 1:07Speaker 02

  Hello.

• 1:08Regina Barber?

  And I've brought known space nerd, all things considered host, one of the co-creators of this great idea.

• 1:15Speaker 02

  I think I was the other people.

• 1:16Regina Barber?

  The only other co-creator of this great idea, Scott Detrow. Hey, Scott.

• 1:21Speaker 02

  I'm excited. This has gone from something we have talked excitedly about around the coffee machine at work to something into microphones.

• 1:28Regina Barber?

  Yeah. OK. Can we call this podcast segment "Spacing Out with Gina"?

• 1:33Speaker 02

  What a good idea. It's your show. You can call it whatever you want.

• 1:38Regina Barber?

  Excellent. OK. I think the only way to start is to tell our listeners why you both deserve to be here. I've talked about my, like, field of science. I loved hanging out with my dad and watching, like, Star Trek: Next Generation. Jeff, why do you love space?

• 1:53Speaker 02

  I don't know. It's quiet. Less bad things seem to happen there.

• 1:57Regina Barber?

  Uh, maybe. Maybe.

• 2:00Regina Barber?

  What about you?

• 2:01Speaker 02

  I think I could answer that on a lot of different levels. I think on the human level, there's so many things that, in a world where it is hard to sometimes feel good and inspired by the news that we cover, there's so many things that I think are really inspiring, whether it's telescopes that are reaching back into the prehistoric early days.

• 2:19Regina Barber?

  Beginning of time.

• 2:20Speaker 02

  Exactly, like the beginning of time. That is exciting to me, whether it's launching a probe that crashes into an asteroid. I think like, that's really cool and exciting. Whether it's astronauts returning to the moon. Like, I just really enjoy reading about it. It makes me feel good. And I think on a deeper level, like, space is so vast and so infinite. Sometimes I will think about it to the point of like, personal paralysis.

• 2:41Regina Barber?

  Yes.

• 2:42Speaker 02

  Because it is so overwhelming to think about that you just like, can't move. And like, that's kind of uncomfortable, but in a cool way.

• 2:48Regina Barber?

  I mean, Jeff, has that ever happened to you? Because I remember talking to my little cousins about what I do for, you know, when I was in grad school, and they were like 10, and they just started being like, I don't want to think about it, and it started freaking them out.

• 2:59Speaker 03

  Yeah. You know, I don't know. I've always felt it kind of comforting.

• 3:03Regina Barber?

  Yeah, me too.

• 3:03Speaker 03

  Going back to the world being a bad place sometimes, not always. But, but, you know, space is a reminder that, you know, we are, we are but on a tiny little dot, and at the end of the day, there's much larger things afoot, and maybe we shouldn't all stress out so much.

• 3:20Regina Barber?

  Oh.

• 3:21Speaker 03

  Keeps me chill.

• 3:22Regina Barber?

  Okay, both of you-

• 3:22Speaker 02

  What's better flip side to that exact same idea?

• 3:26Regina Barber?

  Well, both of you have definitely earned your spot. And with that, today on the show, we're talking about three space stories in the news. First, the film Project Hail Mary, then the prospect of data centers in space, and a quick update on the upcoming Artemis mission. You're listening to Short Wave, the science podcast from NPR.

• 3:54Speaker 04

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• 3:59Speaker 00

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• 5:10Speaker 04

  Exclusions apply. See site for details.

• 5:13Regina Barber?

  OK, Scott, Jeff, I am most excited to talk to you guys about Project Hail Mary, which I actually got to watch for work.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  So let's start with that. I am both very excited to see it, and I don't know when I'm going to see it, because here is my plan. I want to read the book. The book has just been sitting there on the nightstand. I feel like I need to read the book first, then see the movie.

• 5:33Regina Barber?

  No, no.

• 5:33Speaker 02

  No?

• 5:34Regina Barber?

  No, no. Put the book down, go see the movie. I've actually heard people that that's actually the best way to do it.

• 5:38Speaker 02

  OK.

• 5:39Regina Barber?

  Let me explain the plot, like, real quick.

• 5:41Speaker 02

  Please do not spoil anything.

• 5:42Regina Barber?

  I won't, I promise. So in the near future, scientists notice that there are these alien microbes breeding on Venus, then going to eat the sun.

• 5:51Speaker 02

  Eat the sun?

• 5:52Regina Barber?

  Yeah, like, diming it to a point that in 30 years, crops will die, animals will die, humans will die. So world leaders- Send a mission to a nearby star that's not being eaten because these microbes are eating all these other stars too, not just our sun. And they want to figure out how to save the sun. So one of the astronauts is scientist turned middle school teacher Ryland Grace, and he's played by Ryan Gosling.

• 6:15Speaker 03

  I put the knot in astronaut. I've never done anything. I've never done a space. I can't even moonwalk. And Scott, as I'm sure you already know, this movie is based on a book by Andy Weir, the same guy who wrote The Martian. And he does have a track record of writing really scientifically cool books that turn into Hollywood hits. And Gina, on that note, I have to ask, is the movie actually any good?

• 6:37Regina Barber?

  Well, first off, Jeff, I mean, it's a blockbuster for a reason. Like, I went in completely blind, though. I didn't read the book, Scott. I didn't even watch the trailer. I loved it. I loved the jokes. I loved the puppetry, the visuals. It was all stunning.

• 6:49Speaker 03

  Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Did you just say puppets?

• 6:51Regina Barber?

  Yeah, yeah. You said no spoilers.

• 6:54Speaker 03

  I know.

• 6:54Regina Barber?

  So that's literally all I'm gonna say.

• 6:55Speaker 03

  Okay, okay.

• 6:56Regina Barber?

  That's all I'm gonna say.

• 6:57Speaker 03

  But Jeff was nodding at this, and I'm curious, like, how good is the science? Because The Martian, like, you got the potato growing, you got all the science happening.

• 7:05Regina Barber?

  Yeah, a lot was pretty accurate. Like, they did hint to special relativity, where, like, if you're traveling near the speed of light, you're gonna experience time dilation. So, like, Ryan Gosling's character aged differently than people on Earth. They did take some creative licenses with, like, the fundamentals of biology, though. So, like, these alien microbes, like, they existed in space. They were, like, on the surface of the sun, and they were water-based. Yeah, I don't know about that. But that didn't seem to bother astrobiologist Michael Wong from Carnegie Science. He loved the movie. He read the book. But did point out that there's one, like, accidental scientific mistake in the movie.

• 7:42Speaker 05

  It's kind of fun to note that the two exoplanets in the movie were exoplanets that we thought existed at the time that Project Hail Mary was being written. But in just the past few years, between the book, the book's release, and the movie, we've actually discovered that these planets may not actually exist.

• 8:03Regina Barber?

  Yeah, Scott, so in the grand scheme of things, it's not really a mistake. It's just that, like, science has gotten more advanced since the book was written.

• 8:11Speaker 03

  All right, Jeff, second topic, launching artificial intelligence into space. Is this a thing? Yeah, I mean, it's something that some folks are taking seriously, including Elon Musk. He's actually making this the central mission of SpaceX, his space launch company, which just merged actually with his AI company, XAI. Here he is on Saturday unveiling new plans for a massive new microchip factory that would make chips used for data centers in space.

• 8:41Speaker 06

  I actually think that the cost of deploying AI in space will drop below the cost of terrestrial AI much sooner than most people expect. I think it may be only two or three years.

• 8:52Regina Barber?

  Okay, Jeff, at Shorewave, we've done like a bunch of stories about data centers and how they use a lot of water, they use a lot of electricity. Like, is this the solution? Like, just setting them up into space?

• 9:03Speaker 03

  Ejecting them from the earth.

• 9:04Regina Barber?

  Yes.

• 9:05Speaker 03

  Actually, according to people who support this idea, it is, right? It comes down to really electricity. You know, there is a lot of problems around generating enough electricity for all these data centers on the ground. And if you go up into space, you know, you got the sun.

• 9:20Regina Barber?

  Yeah, we were just talking about it.

• 9:22Speaker 03

  We were just talking about it. Great source of power.

• 9:24Regina Barber?

  Yeah.

• 9:24Speaker 03

  It's all free, it's plentiful, and the napkin math looks pretty good, right? You can get as much as you want. But I've got to say, when I started speaking to independent experts, I heard a lot of skepticism.

• 9:35Speaker 07

  Walk me through some of these specific skepticism, then.

• 9:37Speaker 03

  Right, well, let's start by talking about the biggest sort of computery thing we have in space right now, which is the International Space Station.

• 9:45Regina Barber?

  Love it.

• 9:45Speaker 03

  It's the largest facility in orbit, and its solar panels generate around 100 kilowatts of power.

• 9:52Regina Barber?

  Okay.

• 9:52Speaker 03

  Now, that may sound like a lot, but XAI's Colossus computing facility in Memphis, Tennessee consumes around 150 megawatts. So you can do the math.

• 10:02Regina Barber?

  Wow. I don't want to.

• 10:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, you don't want to. Well, that's all right. I actually got MIT aerospace professor Olivier De Weck to do the math for us.

• 10:11Speaker 07

  You would have to build, just for the power in photovoltaically. A facility that's 1,000 times the size of the ISS.

• 10:20Speaker 02

  That that seems hard to do.

• 10:22Regina Barber?

  It's so big. There's an even bigger problem, right, on the backend. It's it's heat, right? Space is cold. That's true, but like it's a vacuum. So there's no way to transfer like heat away from these computer chips, right?

• 10:33Speaker 03

  Right, right. And so you need these massive radiators that actually use some sort of fluid to gather the heat from the chips and then conduct it out into space. And those end up being almost as big as a solar arrays.

• 10:45Speaker 02

  OK, so we start this conversation with Elon Musk saying two or three years away. Then we have an expert saying 1,000 times the size of the International Space Station. What what do we think our real talk estimate is like on those two extreme ends of the spectrum? Is this a thing that one way or another you think happens down the line?

• 11:02Speaker 03

  I think there's a way to to sort of parse this, which is there will be more computing in space for sure. And it'll probably at least for now be on smaller satellites, smaller amounts of computing that can be distributed. Whether we end up with giant data centers with kilometer long solar arrays, I think that's going to be a lot more than two or three years off. But we'll see, you know, Elon loves to give a tight deadline. We'll just have to see where we land.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  One more thing I wanted to ask about, and this is something that I think is a lot closer than than whatever Musk is talking about. I think so at least. And that is the Artemis two launch. What's going on there?

• 11:38Regina Barber?

  Yeah, Scott, so the US is set to launch humans back to the moon for an orbit, something that hasn't happened since the early 70s. And the launch window for Artemis opens pretty soon on April 1st.

• 11:51Speaker 03

  But there've been some technical problems with this mission's rocket. There was a hydrogen leak, which forced NASA to push back this launch. So at this point, Scott, anything could happen. We'll be watching.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  All right, all right.

• 12:03Regina Barber?

  Well, and I hope we can do this again. I hope we can hang out and like, talk about space again. Jeff, Scott, thank you so much.

• 12:09Speaker 02

  We can talk about whether Artemis two happened or whether it didn't happen.

• 12:13Regina Barber?

  Yeah.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  We can talk about, as we said at the beginning, literally an infinite amount of other topics.

• 12:17Regina Barber?

  At the end of all of our spacing outs, it'll just be like, what's happening to Artemis right now?

• 12:22Regina Barber?

  It could go for years, right?

• 12:23Speaker 03

  Already has. Thanks for having us.

• 12:26Regina Barber?

  Thank you so much.

• 12:29Regina Barber?

  If you liked this episode, share it with a friend. It really helps our show. And hey, give us a follow on the NPR app or wherever else you're listening from so that you'll never miss a new episode. This episode was produced by Rachel Carlson and Kai McNamee. It was edited by Christopher Antalyata, Amina Khan, and our showrunner, Rebecca Ramirez. I'm Regina Barber. Thank you for listening to Short Wave, the science podcast from NPR. See you tomorrow.

• 13:02Speaker 04

  Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors. This message comes from Nature on PBS, producers of Going Wild with Dr. Ray Wynn Grant. Back for a brand new season, Going Wild highlights champions of nature and what led them to create change within themselves and the natural world. Follow Going Wild wherever you get your podcasts.

• 13:26Regina Barber?

  This week on the NPR Politics Podcast, the midterm elections are wrapping up, and millions of people have already voted. We're taking one final check of the electoral pulse with a new NPR PBS News Marist Poll. It shows Democrats still poised to make gains, but also with some warning signs for just how many. We'll explain on the NPR Politics Podcast.