SYSK TRENDING -The Intriguing Mysteries of the Universe

There are some questions about the universe that are almost too big to wrap your head around. Why are we here? How did everything begin? Are we alone — or is there intelligent life somewhere else? Could aliens already know about us? And if the universe had a beginning, how does this whole thing eventually end? In this episode, astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson tackles some of the most fascinating mysteries of the cosmos and separates what scientists actually know from what remains speculation. He explains what we know about our place in the universe, the chances that life exists elsewhere, what an encounter with extraterrestrial intelligence might look like, and what science predicts about the ultimate fate of the universe. Along the way, Neil offers the kind of perspective that comes from thinking on a cosmic scale — where Earth is just one tiny place in an unimaginably enormous universe and some of our biggest questions still don't have definitive answers. It’s a fascinating conversation about what we know, what we don’t know, and what we may someday discover. Neil deGrasse Tyson is Director of the Hayden Planetarium in New York City, host of the podcast StarTalk (https://www.startalkradio.net/), and author of the book Cosmic Queries (https://amzn.to/3bp2dkr). PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS MONARCH: Write your own money story with Monarch! Use promo code SYSK at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Monarch.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to get your 1st year of Monarch Core half off at just $50 AIRDOCTOR: Head to ⁠https://AirDoctorPro.com ⁠and use promo code SYSK to get up to $300 off ANY of their select AirDoctor models, plus you will get a 3-year warranty, absolutely FREE! with a 30-day money back guarantee. TREES. COM: Right now, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Trees.com ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠have great deals on planting essentials, up to half off on select plants. And listeners to our show get 20% OFF their purchase when using the promo code SYSK at checkout. KA'CHAVA: Ka’Chava’s new Salted Caramel is the perfect balance of mouthwatering flavor and benefits. Embrace your salty side. Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kachava.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code SYSK to get 15% off your first order! VINTED: Ready to clean out your closet and make some extra money? Download the Vinted app for free and start listing! With no seller fees, you keep every dollar you earn and for a limited time, enjoy free shipping in the US on Vinted. QUINCE: Find your next Fall favorites at Quince! Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Quince.com/sysk⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too! PLANET VISIONARIES: In partnership with The Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative, this is Planet Visionaries. Listen or watch wherever you get your podcasts! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Mike Carruthers?

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• 0:44Mike Carruthers?

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• 1:23Mike Carruthers?

  The universe is filled with things we still don't understand. We don't really know what dark matter is. We're not quite sure why the universe is expanding faster and faster. We don't know what happened before the Big Bang, or even if there was a before. And then there's the question of whether we're the only intelligent life out there. These are big questions. And that's why today's SYSK trending topic is the intriguing mysteries of the universe. My guest is astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson. And he's going to take us through some of the biggest mysteries and best-kept secrets of the cosmos. What we know, what we think we know,

• 2:06Mike Carruthers?

  and what continues to completely stub scientists. Because the more we discover about the universe, the more mysterious it seems to become. And we'll get to that conversation with Neil right after this.

• 2:21Mike Carruthers?

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• 3:05Mike Carruthers?

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• 3:49Mike Carruthers?

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• 4:01Mike Carruthers?

  Have you ever thought about why you're here? And how you got here to this point in time in the universe? And where are we all going? These are some big, heady questions that can sometimes be fun to contemplate and even more fun to discuss with someone like Neil deGrasse Tyson. So let's do that. You know, people sometimes say they like my voice. I get that a lot. One of the voices I like to listen to is the voice of Neil deGrasse Tyson. And you can hear his voice in a lot of places. He has a podcast called StarTalk, and he's also on TV a lot. I find that after I listen to him speak, I just feel a little bit smarter,

• 4:43Mike Carruthers?

  like I understand the world and the universe a little bit better. See if you don't feel the same way in about 20 minutes when we're done. In addition to all of his other work, Neil deGrasse Tyson is the director of the Hayden Planetarium in New York City. And he has a new book out called Cosmic Queries, StarTalk's guide to who we are, how we got here, and where we're going. Hi, Neil. Thanks for being here.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Excellent. Thank you for having me.

• 5:10Mike Carruthers?

  So let's just dive right in. How did we get here? Not on this podcast, but I mean, in this universe. How did we get here? Why are we here?

• 5:25Speaker 01

  There are a lot of ways to answer that. There are people who like thinking of the universe as this haven for life, and its perfect laws of physics come together to enable life. But first of all, the universe would have gone nearly a billion years before Earth even formed. So if the universe were made for life, such as what we have here on Earth, it has a really delayed way of showing it. All right? And so that's my first comment. Second, the elements in our bodies, the carbon, the nitrogen, the oxygen, the foundations of our biochemistry, that was not available at the beginning of the universe. That had to be made later in the cores of stars.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  And we see this happening. These are stars that then explode, scattering their enriched guts across the galaxy, out of which you make the next generation of stars with planets, at least one of which has life. But then you make the planet, and you have all these ingredients. How do you go from just organic molecules to self-replicating life? That remains a mystery. We've got top people working on it. But one of the things about Cosmic Queries is we are not choosing questions based on what we have answers to. We're choosing questions based on what people have asked. And then, and it's laid bare. All right? I can tell you where we got the atoms.

• 6:54Speaker 01

  I can tell you how the atoms function later on. But how we go from molecules to life, that's a mystery. Other mysteries, what was around before the Big Bang? Don't know. We have some ideas, and here they are. But we don't know.

• 7:09Mike Carruthers?

  Do we have any sense of, you know, cells come from other cells? So where did the first cell come from? You know, chicken or egg?

• 7:15Speaker 01

  Okay, well, so first, the chicken/egg question does have an answer. So I'm trying to rid the world of people analogizing such questions to the chicken and egg. So would you like me to give you that answer?

• 7:26Mike Carruthers?

  Please.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  Okay, so the egg came first.

• 7:30Mike Carruthers?

  From where?

• 7:32Speaker 01

  By a bird that you would not have called a chicken.

• 7:35Mike Carruthers?

  Well.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  Okay? This is what you get by sort of the evolution of species. So there's some bird, and it's not a chicken. And then there's some distortion in its offspring from a defect in the DNA. We'll call it a defect because what comes out is not what it started with. Right? And it's some new kind of variation. Now, in practice, it would have taken many, many generations for this to happen. But at some point, you're calling the bird a not chicken, and then the egg that hatches out, a chicken. And at that point, the chicken was laid by a bird that was not a chicken.

• 8:13Mike Carruthers?

  Okay.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  So the egg came first.

• 8:16Mike Carruthers?

  Well, that's, that sounds easier than if cells come from other cells. Where did the first cell come from?

• 8:21Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, that is easier. Yes. So now getting back to that one, a cell is a living thing. So that's my point. How do you go from organic molecules to self-replicating life? That's a mystery. We have top people working on it.

• 8:34Mike Carruthers?

  So I know you talk about questions that are not the right question, that we can try to answer the question, but if you're asking the wrong question, you're not going to get anywhere. So what are some questions that are the wrong questions?

• 8:50Speaker 01

  Oh, okay. I got one for you. I'll give you two examples. Here's one that you know not to ask because it's illegal in our own universe. You ready? So you go visit Santa Claus on the North Pole. And you say, "Santa, please point me north of here." The problem is, every direction Santa points in is due south.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  There is no east or west either. So to say, what is north of the North Pole is a sentence that has no meaning. Here's another one, okay? How about Pinocchio? You tell me, what will happen if Pinocchio declares, if Pinocchio says, "My nose is about to grow." You tell me what happens next.

• 9:34Mike Carruthers?

  Hmm, well, his nose can't grow, or can it? I don't know.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Okay, if his nose doesn't grow, then he was lying, because he just said his nose is about to grow. If he lies, it means his nose has to grow. If he says it and his nose grows, that meant saying his nose was about to grow was true. And if it's true, that means his nose wouldn't grow. So that's a simple statement that actually has no meaning in the Pinocchio universe. So all I'm saying is, in the universe in which we live, I take you to the precipice and dangle you over the abyss of the unknown, and I ask you, "What's the next question?" You might come up with a question, but there's no guarantee that that question is even valid

• 10:26Speaker 01

  in the universe that you're now on the doorstep of discovering.

• 10:30Mike Carruthers?

  Well, a question a lot of people ask, and have been asking for a long time, is, is there life elsewhere? And you would say?

• 10:39Speaker 01

  I would say it's highly likely, for many, several reasons coming together. The universe is old, the ingredients of life are everywhere. If life on Earth were made of really rare things, I would say, yeah, life is probably rare. But the most common atom in the universe is hydrogen, is the most common atom in life. The next most common atom in the universe is, after helium, which is chemically inert, so that's not useful, the next most common is oxygen. That's the next most common atom in life. The next most common is carbon. That's what's next in life. So, and what's next in the universe? Nitrogen, that's what's next in life.

• 11:24Speaker 01

  The top four chemically active ingredients of the universe are the top four atoms in the human body and in life on Earth. So, maybe life is an inevitable consequence of organic chemistry. We don't know. So, so there's that. And also, life got started really fast. On Earth, you look at the data, life, from, from non-life to life, took maybe 100 million years? You say, "Well, that's a long time, Dr. Tyson." Well, not really, if Earth is four and a half billion years old, 100 million is pittance relative to that timeline. So, Earth made life almost as soon as it possibly could have, and didn't seem to have

• 12:07Speaker 01

  trouble accomplishing it, even if we have trouble in the lab. Combine all those factors, life happened quickly, common ingredients, and the universe is old. I wouldn't be surprised if life wasn't teeming everywhere in the universe, just for those factors alone.

• 12:22Mike Carruthers?

  Intelligent life?

• 12:24Speaker 01

  That's different, because look at all the life forms Earth has had. I, you know, millions, I think. I, I don't remember the exact number, but it's huge, most of which are now extinct for all manner of various reasons over the history of the tree of life. But, oh, by the way, who defined us as intelligent? That's an important question. Yeah, we defined ourselves as intelligent. So, would we be intelligent to an alien species who has the technology to, to jet between galaxies? Could they be so intelligent that human intelligence pales in comparison, the way, you know, you don't, and the hubris of people saying, "The aliens are watching us, they care about us."

• 13:07Speaker 01

  It's like, when you walk past worms, are you saying, "Gee, I wonder what that worm is thinking?" Gee, I'm, I'm completely interested in this worm. Unless you're, you're, you're a nematode specialist, you're probably not caring what the worm is thinking about. So, to believe we are so interesting that they'll perform sex experiments on us and draw circles in, in wheat fields, all for our benefit, that's, that's thinking you're really in the center of the universe. So, let's assume we are intelligent, even by alien standards. We are one life form out of a million on Earth, one species? Intelligence doesn't seem to be all that important for life.

• 13:49Speaker 01

  Otherwise, it would have shown up many more times in the fossil record, like locomotion, like sight, like hearing, like the ability to manipulate your environment. These have shown up many ways, many times in the fossil record, and intelligence has not. So what's clear to me about that is, intelligence is not all that important. Intelligence, as we define it for ourselves, is not all that important for our survival, for the survival of a life form. Otherwise, it would have evolved many more times in the fossil record. So, it could be that our intelligence is extremely rare in the universe. Or if it's not rare, we are nowhere near the measure of intelligence that the universe manifests.

• 14:31Mike Carruthers?

  We're talking about the universe, and my guest is Neil deGrasse Tyson. He is host of the podcast StarTalk, and he is the director of the Hayden Planetarium in New York City, and author of the book Cosmic Queries. So here's a question. How well did you eat in the last 24 hours? Did you get enough protein, fiber, greens, and all the things you're supposed to be getting? Well, I don't know either, and that's one of the reasons I've really come to like Kachava. Two scoops gives you a remarkably broad mix of nutrition, plant-based protein, fiber, greens, and much more, all in one shake.

• 15:12Mike Carruthers?

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• 15:57Mike Carruthers?

  I actually enjoy drinking it. Embrace your salty side. Go to kachava.com and use code S Y S K for 15% off your first order. That's kachava, K A C H A V A, dot com, code S Y S K. A big thank you to today's sponsor, Vinted. I think most of us have what I call someday clothes. I'll wear that someday, that'll fit better someday, someday I'll have a place to wear that. Meanwhile, it's been hanging in the closet for three years. Vinted offers another possibility, sell it.

• 16:38Mike Carruthers?

  Every day, people can sell clothes they're no longer wearing and make some extra money. And they've made the process pretty painless. Take what you don't wear, list it on Vinted, listing is quick and simple. And when an item sells, Vinted creates the prepaid shipping label for you. And importantly, there are no seller fees on Vinted. So when you sell something, you keep everything you earn. I like this whole idea, because instead of clothes just taking up space, somebody else gets to wear them and you get some money out of the deal. Your closet looks better, too. I mean, everybody wins, even the closet.

• 17:20Mike Carruthers?

  So maybe it's time to stop waiting for someday. Download the Vinted app for free and start listing with no seller fees, so you keep everything you earn. So Neil, since people started looking up at the stars and saying, you know, "We really need to study this, we need to understand this," whenever that happened up till now, has the, the, the knowledge come in at a fairly steady rate, or have there been big moments where everything changed?

• 17:50Speaker 01

  Any period of great discovery, discoveries happen exponentially. So, I can, I can be more precise about that. I have a book from 1890 on the sun, and the first edition of that book was like 1886 or something, something like, around there. And, well, why did the second edition come out four years later? Well, the author writes, I paraphrase, "Scientific advances in our understanding of the sun has been so great, we had to put out another edition to catch up on things." This person in 1890 is glorifying the pace of scientific discovery. When you are on an exponential curve of discovery, every moment you look at it, it looks like

• 18:35Speaker 01

  all the greatest advances happened in the recent years. That's what being on an exponential curve means. So, yeah, if it looks like you're living in special times, that is the hallmark of a period of exponential discovery.

• 18:52Mike Carruthers?

  What do you think was, like, the big game changer? If there was one, or maybe two, like, everything changed?

• 19:00Speaker 01

  I would say Isaac Newton demonstrating that the universe was mathematically knowable. That was profound. You can write down an equation and make a prediction about something you've never seen before, because you've connected the mathematics to the operations of nature. That was a game changer.

• 19:20Mike Carruthers?

  Well, knowing that we don't know what we don't know, how much do we know compared to what we probably don't know?

• 19:28Speaker 01

  4%. We can quantify our ignorance.

• 19:32Mike Carruthers?

  You said that with, with some authority, so where did the number come from?

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Let's not call it authority, let's just call it knowledge.

• 19:40Mike Carruthers?

  Okay.

• 19:40Speaker 01

  Authority is telling you what to think and believe, whether or not it's true. Authority has the power to make that happen, but if it's just knowledge, anybody could have it and share it. So, all the chemistry and biology and physics that you know and love, that is taught in the schools, drives 4% of the phenomenon of the universe. The remaining 96% is dark matter and dark energy, about which we know nothing. We can measure its existence, we can see its effect gravitationally on objects. We don't know where it came from, we don't know what it is, we don't know why it's there, we can't even characterize it.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  So, our airplanes, our rocket ships, our energy, our civilizations are all living in 4% of the known universe.

• 20:33Mike Carruthers?

  So, this may or may not be a fair question, but because you've taken in all this knowledge and you have synthesized it, and you're well-known for being able to explain it in a very interesting and compelling, and fortunately for many of us, a simple way. Does all of that make you more spiritual or less spiritual?

• 20:57Speaker 01

  I would say more spiritual. Spiritual in the sense of, if it's spiritual, sort of capital S. So, spirit, I think from the Latin, is your breath, right? And your breath was equated to being alive, right, for the longest time. They would hold up a mirror in front of your dying body, and the moment you no longer fogged the mirror, you would declare dead. So, your spirit left your body. So, when I think of gazing on the darkened universe on a mountaintop, where I have a telescope that I'm about to use for scientific means, but before I enter the dome, I gaze

• 21:36Speaker 01

  upon the limitlessness of it and the majesty of it, that's a spiritual moment, I think. And the sort of the glory of the universe. And I bet it taps, I don't know this for sure, but I bet it taps similar parts of my brain that religious experiences tap in people's brains who have experienced those. If that's the case, I have no hesitation in calling them spiritual experiences. But, when I use the word spiritual, I am in no way invoking a god who made the universe in six days and cares about who you sleep with. Right? This is not my usage of the term.

• 22:15Mike Carruthers?

  So, how does this all end? Where does the universe go when it goes?

• 22:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, often when people say, "How will it end?", they're really only thinking about Earth. And there's some fun, interesting scenarios to get rid of Earth. Basically, the sun will absorb it and vaporize it in about five, six billion years. So, we need to find another planet by then, if our species survives that long. So, that's cool. I mean, it's not cool, I mean, it's just the reality of it, as the sun expands to engulf the orbits of Mercury and Venus, and bringing the oceans of Earth into a rolling boil. That's a bad day for Earth.

• 23:01Speaker 01

  So, that's the, you know, at the end of Earth is vapor inside the sun. But the end of the universe is more intriguing, because the universe can take any one of a dozen pathways, and we don't know enough to land on which pathway is highly likely. So, that's why we give all the scenarios in it. And the ending that terrifies me the most is the one where we end up expanding, because the expansion is growing exponentially, the expansion of the universe. So, eventually, the expansion will rip all the galaxies from our night sky, and then it'll rip the stars from our night sky. Then it'll start ripping molecules from your body.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  And then it starts ripping the structure of the atoms from the molecules, and then the atoms themselves, the particles within the atoms themselves. And when you do that, there's no other way the expansion of the universe can accommodate it. And it's called the big rip, which is terrifying to me. The big rip, where it's like you're stretching some flexi cloth, and then there's a point where it no longer stretches, and what does it do? It rips. I can't even picture what that would look like, or what it would be. But it's nonetheless terrifying to me.

• 24:24Mike Carruthers?

  Sounds horrible.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  But it's not happening anytime soon, so don't lose sleep over it.

• 24:28Mike Carruthers?

  Yeah, not this week or anything. So, when, can you explain, because we hear this often, that the universe is expanding, and it's expanding exponentially, you said. What does that mean, and what's it expanding into?

• 24:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a perfect, honest question to ask. It depends on what kind of multiverse it is. If it's the simplest of multiverses, then the full extent of the actual universe is vastly greater than the universe you can see. And so, our pocket that's expanding is simply expanding into other parts of our universe. Okay? So, as would be any big bang manifested in the rest of this multiverse. So, the problem is, if we, if the new, if multiple universes invokes higher dimensions, so that it's creating a whole other universe with other laws of physics, then first that would be really dangerous to visit.

• 25:30Speaker 01

  You'd take your health into your own hands by doing so, because the charge on the electron could be different, and you walk across the procyneum, and then you collapse into a pile of goo, because the molecular forces are no longer applied. So, in that universe, that's in another dimension. And so, we would expand, but never interact with that other universe. You might say, "Well, how can you expand forever but not bump into another universe?" Well, I can have a sheet of paper that's flat, obviously, and I can stretch it in the two dimensions. If I layer another sheet of paper right on top of, not touching it, but above it, I can stretch both sheets of paper to infinity, and they'll never intersect each other.

• 26:14Speaker 01

  So, that's obvious, because they're not in the same plane. Well, going from three dimensions to higher, in a higher dimension, the lower dimension entities can expand forever and not end up colliding. So, if you're eager to get a parallel universe, we might have a twin of you, don't hold your breath about whether it's one we can interact with.

• 26:38Mike Carruthers?

  That's very hard to grasp, that there's parallel universes.

• 26:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, most of it is hard to grasp. I've said many times that the universe is under no obligation to make sense to you. So, what matters is whether it satisfies experiment and observation.

• 26:55Mike Carruthers?

  Well, I wish it would make sense. It would make it easier to make sense of it all.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  No, but you can't, because your senses were developed on the plains of the Serengeti to not get eaten by a lion. They're not designed for math, or probability, or statistics, or fundamental physics. So, yeah, it's a problem. It's a problem. We're stuck with our own biology.

• 27:18Mike Carruthers?

  Well, it's pretty exciting stuff, and it's just amazing when you stop and look up at the sky, and I do this often, and just think, how amazing is it that I am here, right now, at this time, in this place? It's hard to fathom.

• 27:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's quite, and it's, dare I use the word, it's a miracle that you're even alive, given how many possible humans there could be that will never be born. That's something to contemplate.

• 27:45Mike Carruthers?

  Wow. Well, it's always a pleasure to hear you speak. I enjoy the chance to interact with you, and I always feel a little bit smarter afterwards. Neil deGrasse Tyson has been my guest. He is the director of the Hayden Planetarium in New York City. His podcast is called StarTalk, and his new book is called Cosmic Queries: StarTalk's Guide to Who We Are, How We Got Here, and Where We're Going. And there's a link to that book in the show notes. Thank you, Neil, appreciate you being here.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, thanks for your interest, been a pleasure.

• 28:18Mike Carruthers?

  And that's it for today's SYSK Trending episode. I'm Mike Carruthers, thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know.