#1458 Charlie Gasparino | Bitcoin, Trump Victory, The Economy & Woke America

Charlie Gasparino is a New York Post columnist and author of the book “Go Woke, Go Broke.” He is also a Senior Correspondent at FOX Business. In this conversation, we discuss bitcoin, we review the political campaigns for Donald Trump and Kamala Harris, the problem with mainstream media, the impact Trump will have on bitcoin & financial markets, the border, artificial intelligence, and why he wrote his new book, “Go Woke, Go Broke.” ========================== Ledger has been trusted for 10 years to secure 20% of the world’s digital assets. For a limited time, upgrade to the Ledger Flex and get $70 of bitcoin. Go to ledgerpomp.com to take control of your digital future. ========================== The future is being built today and the future of currency isn’t dollars, euros, pounds, or yen, it’s crypto. And Gemini thinks that’s a great thing. Because a future where money is decentralized, inclusive, and globally accessible, that’s a future that we are anxious to be a part of. Go where dollars won’t. With Gemini. ======================= Pomp writes a daily letter to over 265,000+ investors about business, technology, and finance. He breaks down complex topics into easy-to-understand language while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at https://pomp.substack.com/ ======================= View 10k+ open startup jobs: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://dreamstartupjob.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Enroll in my Crypto Academy: https://www.thecryptoacademy.io/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Many of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, which is my effort to find the most interesting people in the world and sit with them for hours while I ask questions in an effort to learn. So it would mean the world to me if you would subscribe to the show on your favorite audio platform, watch episodes on YouTube, and tell your friends and family about the podcast. My goal is to help millions learn from the world's most interesting people. So let's get into today's episode.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 0:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Today's episode is brought to you by Ledger. They're celebrating 10 years as the most trusted name in crypto security. With over 7 million users and 20% of the world's digital assets secured, Ledger continues to lead the way in protecting your crypto and digital ownership. Their latest devices, Ledger Stacks and Ledger Flex, feature the world's first secure touchscreens, making managing your assets easier and safer than ever. Plus, the new Ledger Security Key app offers a secure alternative to traditional passwords, enhancing your digital security. Go to ledgerpomp.com to take control of your digital future. That's ledgerpomp.com. Go check them out today. Today's episode is brought to you by Gemini. The future is being built today, and the future of currency isn't dollars, euros, pounds, or yen. It's crypto. And Gemini thinks that's a great thing

• 1:39Anthony Pompliano?

  because of future where money is decentralized, inclusive, and globally accessible. That's a future that we are anxious to be a part of. Gemini teamed up with futurists, technologists, and designers like award-winning artist Matt Griffin, known for his illustrations for Dune, to craft a vision of the future with crypto at its core. The creative theme "Go Where Dollars Won't" emphasizes exploration, growth, and the crypto market's limitless potential. Whether it's going on that Martian safari to capture an unforgettable photo of a herd of woolly mammoths grazing the red planet, or using Bitcoin To pay for your lift pass to go strata skiing down the mountain peak of a breathtaking comment. Whatever adventures we'll be living, one thing is for sure. In a future this fantastic,

• 2:20Anthony Pompliano?

  the limits of traditional currency simply cannot keep up. Financial innovation will usher in this new frontier. And so go where dollars won't with Gemini. Go check them out at gemini.com slash go where dollars won't. Again, go check it out at gemini.com slash go where dollars won't.

• 2:40Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, Charles, you are a fantastic journalist. You've been doing this for a long time, 30 years, very well respected. But I can't get a beat on do you like Bitcoin or do you not like Bitcoin? What's up with this?

• 2:51Speaker 02

  I don't know. I mean, listen, I'll be honest with you. I cover it like baseball. I cover it as if it doesn't matter whether I like it or not. I will say this, what would kind of just scares me. And maybe this is a function of the regulatory regime of the Biden administration that was anti crypto, which I definitely didn't like because I believe in innovation, I believe, like with, listen, there are anti fraud statutes all over the place, both civilly and criminally, you know, you do what Sam Bankman Fried does. I mean, that was just straight out fraud, right? So, but I think they went to the point where they stifled innovation in not just by cracking down on these coins, but I think the underlying technology, we haven't seen advances in that.

• 3:34Speaker 02

  And I think you can make a good case that the underlying technology is, you know, was thwarted by all this regulation by Gary Gensler, and it was stupid. Okay, so I give you that. What, again, what just concerns me, and now that the regulatory shackles are going to be removed by Trump, which I believe they will be, given who we know is going to be at the SEC, who we know is going to be. Chris Giancarlo is going to play a role. There's really smart people. David Sacks is really smart. It's really smart people that understand the crypto ecosystem, which is the technology. But I think what we need as the regulatory shackles come off, we need to see technology catch up to the interest in the speculation of the coin. And I think

• 4:20Speaker 02

  Because you need, I know you don't believe this, well, maybe you do. Maybe I convinced you after our last talk at the Grant Cardone conference, but I think you need underlying value other than a speculative value. There's never been an asset class. I mean, listen, I got a little Italian gold chain here, right?

• 4:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 4:37Speaker 02

  It's gold, right? Not that it's worth that much, but it's a Christhead, right? There is a utility for gold.

• 4:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 4:46Speaker 02

  I want to see utility for Bitcoin more than just like it's in my wallet and well, it's up 10,000%.

• 4:54Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. So, so let's talk about speculation first. I would argue that there

• 4:58Speaker 02

  No, but you see what I'm saying? That that's my problem. My problem is technology here, speculation here. I want to see them come together. speculation here. I want to see them come together. Now, the regulatory regime of Gary Gensler obviously thwarted that technology.

• 5:15Anthony Pompliano?

  But I think that you're

• 5:16Speaker 02

  But now it's gonna, it should come together. If it doesn't come together, then I'm, then I'm a skeptic.

• 5:20Anthony Pompliano?

  You're proving that Bitcoin is valuable.

• 5:23Speaker 02

  Why? Because we're talking about it?

• 5:24Anthony Pompliano?

  No, because, uh, name a technology where speculation didn't front run the technology.

• 5:28Speaker 02

  No, but it always happens, but they come together.

• 5:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Correct.

• 5:30Speaker 02

  See what I'm saying? Like, for example, there was a dot com bubble and burst, right? I, trust me, I covered it. That shows you how old I am. I wrote a book on it. But the technology and the speculation came together. So then you do have Google and what its valuation is, you don't have AOL Time Warner anymore because that was gone. Netscape is gone, but it's replaced by other browsers. So, technology and speculation came together. That has to happen. If it doesn't happen, then it's bull.

• 5:59Anthony Pompliano?

  So how do you know that it's going to come together? Like, what would be the sign? No, what would be the sign that the speculation in Bitcoin has met Bitcoin, the technology?

• 6:07Speaker 02

  I think when the blockchain

• 6:10Speaker 02

  Or a blockchain is is much more of a mainstream function.

• 6:15Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 6:15Speaker 02

  I would say I would say that would be a huge sign that people and I know you're gonna say all people buy. There's a bar down in Manhattan that.

• 6:22Anthony Pompliano?

  No, no, no, no.

• 6:23Speaker 02

  Order a drink. There's a pizza parlor on 35th Street that takes big. I I'm sure, but I mean, when it's much more um, much more aligned, I'm I'm all in.

• 6:33Anthony Pompliano?

  So.

• 6:34Speaker 02

  And by the way, I'm not not all in.

• 6:36Anthony Pompliano?

  No, I know. I know. I actually enjoyed talking to you because I I put you in the bucket of you are cautiously optimistic.

• 6:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:42Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? Like, like you see that, hey, maybe there is something here, but I'm cautious because a bunch of these people are idiots and they're also saying crazy stuff.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  You know, I get a lot of shit from the Ripple XRP people like, you know, which you gave me a funny story before we we talk about.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  I was the mainstream reporter that dived into how they got how they might have been unfairly singled out. I mean, I literally me and Ellie Tarrant literally wrote this seminal piece on this. And I and we wrote it because it was so bizarre what happened. I I did a hit. So when Ellie's sitting over there, when did we write that story?

• 7:21Speaker 02

  Okay, November 2021.

• 7:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Top of the market.

• 7:23Speaker 02

  We we wrote the story about how this company Ripple is under the gun from the SEC. Um, and how, you know, there's this huge, you know, fight that's going on about whether they're being unfairly unfairly prosecuted or or regulated. Um, and we covered it from many different angles. The reason why I did that story is because maybe three or four years earlier, I did a piece about, I think it was about Ethereum and consensus. Where I said they wanted to establish their own, they're looking to establish their a regulatory regime. Someone, a guy named John Deaton, who's like a big XRP guy and good friend of mine, John Deaton found that that clip. And he posted it and I got like four million tweets at me. I mean, remember it was like nonstop and it kept going.

• 8:08Speaker 02

  So I called John Deaton up. He didn't know me. I don't know him. And I said, what is this? He goes, you don't remember doing this? I said, yeah, kind of. It was like years ago. And then he then he introduced me to the Ripple case. And so I am, I always thought that the regulation of Ripple was.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  I mean, just needless given all. Think about it. They were going after Ripple and XRP. Sam Bankman Freed, you know, was, you know, was going nuts, you know, essentially ripping people off. So I always felt that was regulatory overreach. I always felt there is a, a need for a safe harbor. So this technology, you know, Ripple does have an underlying technology. We've essentially forced it overseas, I believe, is what where it is because it's kind of in regulatory never never land. Still, to this day, uh, the, the SEC is appealing a case. And then because they brought the case, this is how stupid it is. So they bring the case. They get this moron judge who says, oh no, um, the, they don't deserve this investors.

• 9:09Speaker 02

  The retail investors don't need the disclosure. They're okay not disclosing to retail, but they should have disclosed it to the institution. This idiotic judge didn't even know that she established precedent that there should be less disclosure for retail. That shows you what a mess bringing this case was and how they went after them. So, I mean, that's, and so I pointing these out, you know, you do get on the side of these crazies on, on the internet. But, you know, again, I'm always going to call it like I see it, and that is a stupid ruling. XRP may suffer if it gets reversed, which I think there's a chance it gets reversed and XRP and Ripple's back on the, on the, on the hook.

• 9:49Speaker 02

  The SEC may drop the whole thing. Now that Trump's in there, though, that's a whole other thing that you have to worry about. And this is why I get shit from both sides, both pro crypto and anti crypto. I will cover this like baseball. I literally don't give a fuck who wins and who loses in the end. I hold no XRP.

• 10:09Anthony Pompliano?

  So if you don't care who wins, who loses, uh, why is it that Bitcoin, which has hundreds of millions of people holding it? And I think they would argue, forget for a second the payments and buying stuff, whatever. But they're holding it because they believe that the dollar is being devalued and this is a better store of value. You don't think that's a use case?

• 10:29Speaker 02

  Could be.

• 10:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  Could be.

• 10:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Um, it. But we've been doing it for 15 years. You don't think it's like a yes or no at this point?

• 10:34Speaker 02

  No, I don't know. I, again, there, there's a usefulness for gold. It's, you know, centuries old. Fort Knox, the whole thing.

• 10:43Anthony Pompliano?

  So why is Bitcoin?

• 10:43Speaker 02

  But Bitcoin may, and listen, you might be right. I, I just don't know. I mean, Bitcoin may be the non-boomer alternative to gold, where you need, if you're going to debase the currency, as they've done, as we know they've done, particularly, you know, during the COVID, you know, post-COVID, during the, you know, the Fed has debased our currency like there's no tomorrow.

• 11:07Anthony Pompliano?

  Mm hmm.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  You know, what is a dollar worth that it is? We have 36 trillion in debt. We have a huge budget. We have a budget deficit that's something like 130% of GDP. I mean, there's some astronomical number. Number, someone told me the other day that, oh, Trump spent like crazy. I go, yeah, he did. This is during his first term. I believe the budget deficit in 2019, you got to take 2020 out of it because that was the lockdowns and they had to spend. 19, it was something like 700 billion. A great, again, har- high. It's like 1.9 trillion now.

• 11:36Anthony Pompliano?

  That's too true.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  I mean, it's like, it's, it's insane. So, um, there needs to be a store of value and maybe Bitcoin is the store of value for your generation. So I, that's why I don't dismiss it. I'm just telling you, these are the questions that I raise in my head when I'm trying to look at this honestly. Listen, I've been wrong before looking at stuff honestly. I thought Kamala Harris was going to win.

• 11:57Anthony Pompliano?

  No way.

• 11:58Speaker 02

  This is why I thought it. And then the last day I said, I used my, I just said, here's how I'm going to add it up. Um, it's a dead even race, which it essentially was in many respects.

• 12:08Anthony Pompliano?

  Kind of.

• 12:08Speaker 02

  In many respects. I mean, it was very close, you know, 100, you know, 50,000 votes here and there in a, in a population of 300 million. That's, yeah, didn't even, Trump won by a few percentage points. He won more resoundly for other reasons, but we can get into that as well if you want. Um, but I said, be that as it may, she raised, and I knew this for a fact, within like four weeks, because a friend of mine was raising the money for her.

• 12:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  1.5 trillion, in 1.5 billion in, in hard money, not PAC and stuff, you know, not stuff that you, you know, that, stuff that you can use directly. And I said, okay, if I'm adding up, she's got a better ground game theoretically.

• 12:49Speaker 02

  You gotta give her the advantage and I was wrong, obviously.

• 12:52Anthony Pompliano?

  You know why?

• 12:52Speaker 02

  Not wrong by a lot, but I was wrong.

• 12:54Anthony Pompliano?

  You know, you know why money doesn't matter in politics anymore?

• 12:57Speaker 02

  It does matter.

• 12:58Anthony Pompliano?

  No, doesn't matter.

• 12:59Speaker 02

  You gotta use it right. She, she, she, she spent $50,000 on an Oprah set or something, right?

• 13:04Anthony Pompliano?

  No, six, six, six figures on the Call Her Daddy set inside of a hotel.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  Right. That's what I mean. I mean,

• 13:11Anthony Pompliano?

  If she, if she paid me 300K, I built a way better set and I would have kept half the money.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, was, let's be clear. If, if there were two horrendous presidential candidates and one horrendous vice presidential candidate in, in, you know, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, that, that, that combination means you, you're beatable.

• 13:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. So I, the reason why I say money doesn't matter as much anymore is because, uh, I think now we've entered this, uh, era where, uh, money can't buy you influence on the internet. It can buy you influence in mainstream media. It can buy you, uh, uh, reach in the mainstream media. Uh, they try both sides to, you know, use money to figure out on the internet, whatever. But the internet is this like, uh, free market of ideas.

• 13:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I agree with you and, and, and obviously that, that's a hundred percent accurate. And the reason why it doesn't matter as much is because Elon bought X. I mean, people forget, I mean, I covered 2020. They throttled the, the story that should have won the Pulitzer that year. You know, not some Russian collusion or whatever the hell they gave it to. Um, they throttled the New York Post Hunter Biden laptop story, throttled it.

• 14:18Anthony Pompliano?

  Did you write the story?

• 14:18Speaker 02

  I did not. I wasn't, I was, I was at Fox. I, I was a columnist, but I believe it's Emma Joe, um, Emma Joe, my good, good friend of mine. I'm just, Emma Joe Morris, I was having a blank there for a minute, uh, wrote the story and

• 14:33Anthony Pompliano?

  It's crazy.

• 14:34Speaker 02

  It, it was brave to do it too, at the time, right? And you know, here's the thing.

• 14:38Anthony Pompliano?

  I don't want to live in a society where we call the journalist brave for writing the truth.

• 14:42Speaker 02

  I, I know. That's a whole, it's another discussion, but I, and I agree with you. But when I'm, the point is the minute Elon buys X, playing field was, was, was leveled and you could see it like, you know, someone writes something about Trump. You know, the usual bullshit about him being a racist or something. Fifty people would riot, try him in. No, he's not. This is what he meant by this. He didn't. So there was a thing where someone quoted Trump as saying he's gonna jail all his enemies. That that meant, you remember that whole thing? And he didn't say that. What he said was, people that are burning down the cities, the essentially the rioters and the anarchists face jail time. And that's what he meant. And by the way, everybody's for that. Yeah, I don't know.

• 15:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Of course.

• 15:24Speaker 02

  I don't think normal person.

• 15:26Anthony Pompliano?

  You know what surprised me?

• 15:26Speaker 02

  But that came out, but that leveling influence is because Musk bought Twitter.

• 15:31Anthony Pompliano?

  Of course.

• 15:31Speaker 02

  And renamed it X, obviously.

• 15:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. There's two things that I think back to now. One of the things that surprised me in the campaign trail this time was Barack Obama, I thought was kind of above the fray in a lot of stuff. And he used the very fine people hoax.

• 15:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, not me, not me.

• 15:47Anthony Pompliano?

  And when he referenced that, I think that my view on how political, etc., that really changed my.

• 15:53Speaker 02

  Well, I always knew Barack Obama's highly political. I mean, I don't know the guy. I mean, I know people that know him very well. They like him personally.

• 16:02Speaker 02

  I don't give a shit about him personally because he was a lousy president, in my view. He was also extremely, extremely partisan. I mean, he like went in front of the Supreme Court and attacked them to their faces. I mean, over stupid stuff and, you know, and I think, I just think he was a, I think he was a horrible president on a lot of levels. So none of that surprised me. None of it like, you know, the brothers don't want to vote for Kamala Harris. I mean, that sort of, I mean, you know, you just know if things get, go sideways, he's gonna go there. And so that didn't surprise me. What really did surprise me on this whole thing, and I wrote a book about wokeness, we should talk about a little bit.

• 16:37Anthony Pompliano?

  What's the name of the?

• 16:38Speaker 02

  Go woke, go broke, the radicalization of corporate America. Yeah, yeah, it is true. And Elon's proved it's true. Budweiser's proved this true. Kamala Harris not getting elected proves it's true. But, you know, this, I just didn't understand just how in the bag and woke the mainstream media is, because I'm there every day. And these guys are my, you know, I grew up with these guys. I know a lot of them, older people. I know some of the younger kids, too. They literally covered up the biggest story.

• 17:12Speaker 02

  That this country ever has seen, which is the mental severe mental deterioration of a president.

• 17:19Anthony Pompliano?

  It's crazy.

• 17:19Speaker 02

  And his number two being a halfwit. Okay, and I think I can say halfwit based on really good evidence, you know, of Kamala Harris, based on how she comported herself during the campaign, the fact that she started every answer with, I came from a middle-class family, you know, go on and on.

• 17:35Anthony Pompliano?

  But why do you think the media didn't talk about the mental decline of Biden?

• 17:40Speaker 02

  I don't know, and I think they're covering up, and they're so woke. It was a virus that, and if you notice, the media is going out of business. They're definitely going broke. And the mainstream media, media like this is where people are turning to more and more. Our ratings at Fox are very good. Pope still sells papers, trust me on this.

• 17:58Anthony Pompliano?

  But I think that a lot of people don't know, Fox Business is bigger than the other networks.

• 18:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? And the audience is also different.

• 18:08Speaker 02

  Fox News, you mean it?

• 18:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Fox Business. Fox Business is bigger than the other financial media platforms.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think we're par. I mean, listen, I look at ratings all the time. It's hard to, with business, just so you know, when you look at ratings on business shows, very hard to judge because Nielsen boxes generally are not in like the training floors. But, you know, we're doing, we're obviously doing well. Fox News is doing tremendously well.

• 18:32Anthony Pompliano?

  And what about the Post?

• 18:33Speaker 02

  Post is doing great. I mean, we literally, the Post is now a national paper.

• 18:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Explain a little bit as to like, yeah, I mean, you're a columnist, right? Like, what is the perspective of the Post in terms of like, why has it been successful?

• 18:44Speaker 02

  Um, I think it's irreverent. It loves news. I mean, remember, I'm a columnist, but I break a lot of news. I mean, I live off that. And I think that sort of irreverence and news breaking is why people read it. And they read it all over the country. Trust me, I go on these, I go to, you know, I go to California, I go to Florida particularly, where there's a lot of New Yorkers, everybody reads the Post. And they actually get the hard copy, which I find fascinating. I haven't read a newspaper in years, like a real newspaper. I mean, I read every day, but people actually like reading the Post. It's like a fun read and you get, and it's, and we break news. So I think when you go woke, you go broke. And these reporters, you know, here's the fascinating

• 19:28Speaker 02

  thing. I wrote a column about this in the Post. It was July 2023. So we're talking about more than a year before the election, right? I wrote a column that said, all the, for some reason, there's a spate of Wall Street research. It was like five or six things about how Joe Biden is not going to make it. And that if he waits until after the election, it gets, excuse me, after the new year, it gets incredibly difficult to dislodge him. And there's all these, there's all this sort of, like, all this sort of turmoil that's going to go on if you tried to get rid of him before he drops out. This was Wall Street wrote, this is me at the Post, doing a column about these Wall Street research. How did the Wall Street researchers smell him dropping out? And not the guy at the New York Times that covers the White House?

• 20:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, is it because the Wall Street guys have skin in the game?

• 20:16Speaker 02

  Probably, but they also saw his mental decline. They had sources, they used their sources in in DC think tanks and in the sort of NGOs or wherever they get their information from, because remember, these Wall Street firms have information on both sides of the aisle. They have Republicans and Democrats. They smelled this thing coming a year, well, more than a year before, I wrote the thing, and then slow, like Chinese war to torture, you know, and then all of a sudden, we're into the new year, we're into a debate where the guy couldn't even like stand up for two hours.

• 20:48Anthony Pompliano?

  It was pretty bad. It was bad. Right. And I actually felt a little bit bad for him, because I felt like he was like out there just being put up to it.

• 20:55Speaker 02

  You know, I felt bad for him for a second. Then I remember he named, or the announcement came out on Easter Sunday about it was Trans Visibility Day. I said, what a way to fuck Catholics like myself. You know, this is the most holy, and by the way, I'm not a particularly religious guy, but I do believe in the good Lord and, you know, I'm a raised born, I'm a raised Roman Catholic. I do celebrate the resurrection.

• 21:21Speaker 02

  And he's talking about trans visibility on that day. You couldn't wait a day? You delay the announcement? I mean, this is the type of transformation this guy tried to change this country. And it wasn't just culturally, because it was a lot of it was culturally. It was demographically with the open borders. It was economically with the massive wild spending. So he can be more transformational than Barack. I think it was his words. I mean, this was a guy that took this country in ways that were really bad. I would, you know, almost demonic in certain ways.

• 21:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Do you think that Trump won because of Bitcoin?

• 21:56Speaker 02

  I think it was a push. I mean, clearly, he was, you know, the guy, he's got these innate political skills that people don't give him credit for. You know, I was watching him, um, like, cause I was at a restaurant with a bunch of people. We had like a little debate dinner and we were watching him and Kamala go at it. And, you know, I never forget, he goes, you know, we were talking about Springfield and all the immigrants that descended on the town. And he says, oh, it's horrible. They're eating the cats. They're eating the dogs. They're eating the pets of the people that live there. I never forget that. I'm like, oh God, that's like a little crazy, right? And she had that weird smile. Like, what are you talking about?

• 22:36Speaker 02

  I thought, okay, he's going to be derided as a racist because these were Haitian immigrants and it's, you know, then there's all these stories about, and no one found the dead cat, you know, with, with a, or a cat being cooked with an apple in his mouth. A skin cat. Um, but the next day, all the kids on social media.

• 22:54Anthony Pompliano?

  That's all I talked about.

• 22:55Speaker 02

  And they were dancing to it.

• 22:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, they had their songs.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  So he kind of knew that that by going there, it would resonate. And then people started talking about Springfield and, you know, 20,000 immigrants on a town. But the same thing with, with, he smelled something here with Bitcoin. He saw 50,000 crypto holders in the country, or for now 50,000, 50 million, I'm sorry. He smelled that they were being oppressed by Gary Gensler, which they were. He smelled that there was technology there.

• 23:27Speaker 02

  Elon spoke with him, David Sacks, I mean, people talked to him about this. His kid is involved and he said, this is a no brainer. And he went for it and it's, it just shows you the political brilliance. And by the way, crypto does have political staying power now. We should point out again, I'm going to cover this like baseball. Carolyn Crenshaw is not going to be an SEC commissioner because crypto stepped up to the plate and says, if told Congress, both sides, if you put her to a vote, we're going to hold it against you. They raised a lot of money for Trump. I think they raised equal money, but you know, the way I understood it, the way it was broken down is that it

• 24:09Speaker 02

  was equal in some because like one guy, you know, essentially accounted for all of Kamala Harris's crypto money. Trump got a much more broad based and he had the industry behind him. Let's face it. So he was brilliant to tap into that. I don't think he gets it like you get it. Just so you know, this is like, he's, he's looking at this as like, you know, how many votes? Ah, yeah, let him, let him do some Bitcoin. I mean, I'm just, trust me, I know it.

• 24:35Anthony Pompliano?

  So a couple of things. One, when the debate ended with Harris, I went to sleep that night. And if you had asked me, I would have said Harris won. That was my, that was my thought process of going to sleep that night. I woke up the next morning, I saw all the videos. I said, oh, I changed my mind. Trump won. Because guess what? No one can remember what was said last night. All they remember is cats and dogs.

• 24:52Speaker 02

  It was just so amazing.

• 24:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Right. But that's the game, right? Is it's no longer about who's got the best dad, who's got whatever. It's just, can you suck the air out of the room?

• 25:01Speaker 02

  I, I thought.

• 25:02Anthony Pompliano?

  He is the best in the.

• 25:03Speaker 02

  I will say this. I thought it was just, it was like even because she didn't really answer any questions. I thought it was a missed opportunity for him to like, like, because he was leading at that point. Then apparently the polls, if you believe the polls, they tightened. Although for my, my people in the Trump campaign that are, that were in the campaign and the transition team, this was the other thing. They told me, they never thought he was going to lose.

• 25:27Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 25:27Speaker 02

  And I thought they were just blowing smoke up my ass. And I was like, but these are people I trust. And I used to tell people at work, I like, they were like, of course the Trump people are going to, I said, no, these are people that I'm, I've known, they, you know, it's.

• 25:39Anthony Pompliano?

  You could have came and asked me, I said three, it's before landslide. You know why?

• 25:42Speaker 02

  They thought he was going to win all these states. And, you know, and here's another tell.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  So I wrote a story in the Post and on Fox that said Jamie Dimon is letting it be known that he would work for Kamala Harris if he was asked of the two. This is as Trump was pushing him like left and right, trying to get him to like, remember he would mention his name every five minutes. It was like, kind of funny. He mentioned his name at the New York, the New York, what was that, the Economic Club in New York? And he wasn't even in the audience. And I called up like, his PR guy goes, Jamie here? And they goes, no, I heard Trump mention him. And so it was just funny because he just has a man crush on Jamie. And Jamie has a man crush on him. It goes both ways. He's like, he's like, literally like fascinated by Trump. You know, guys like with power, guys that are powerful and that kind of earn their power are like that with each other. Like, how

• 26:34Speaker 02

  did he get here? Is how I got here? And Jamie did earn it. And so did Trump, right? Different ways. Anyway, so Jamie lets it be known that he worked for Harris. And this is like when her poll numbers were up, right? So I write this story. A week later, the Times does a follow. They don't credit me, but they did a follow. So I'm kind of pissed. And I called, I called JB. I go, did you tell him I had this fucking story first? And like, yeah, we did. They left. Yeah. But, you know, but it's untrue. What do you mean it's untrue? Goes, no, he's staying neutral. So then I wrote the story just to fuck the Times. So he's going neutral, right? So it's just the way you play the game. And then I thought about it for a while. So now what made him change? The polling changed. The internals

• 27:17Speaker 02

  for Trump got a lot better at that point. I called up my guys. Oh, yeah, we're rising. We think we got this one. The trend is our friend. And that's, that was another tell in my head that Trump, if Jamie Dimon is doing a 180, because he gets good, remember, all these banks have good internal polling.

• 27:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, Amazon, they have economists, they got all these kinds of people working.

• 27:39Speaker 02

  They don't have the shit New York Times, you know, Sienna poll stuff with a margin of ever of 10,000. I mean, they have whatever it is.

• 27:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, the guy in Paris, he had the neighbor polls. He might have had the best poll out of everybody.

• 27:51Speaker 02

  Probably.

• 27:51Anthony Pompliano?

  You know that story?

• 27:53Speaker 02

  No.

• 27:53Anthony Pompliano?

  So on the prediction markets, there was a guy, he was betting. A million, two million, five million. He was betting big.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  There was one guy that was.

• 28:02Anthony Pompliano?

  In Paris.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, he was in France. And I think he was in Paris, but he's definitely in France. And they were like, why are you betting so big? Because they could trade, like this guy, this guy is the guy who's saying Trump's winning.

• 28:14Speaker 02

  So we were told, you know, a lot of people were like, in journals were like, oh, be careful. It's one guy swaying the election, swaying the polls. And I'm like, well, you know.

• 28:21Anthony Pompliano?

  You ever been to the stock market? There's a lot, a lot of times.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  There's a lot of money there.

• 28:25Anthony Pompliano?

  So you know what, so you know what the reason why he got so confident? He did something called a neighbor poll. So usually the poll asks, who are you voting for? But the problem with Trump is nobody wants to admit they're voting for him. So it skews the results.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  Well, I know.

• 28:37Anthony Pompliano?

  So what they started, what he did was he commissioned, this guy is a pretty sophisticated guy. He commissioned a study to ask people, who is your neighbor voting for? And everyone said, well, my neighbor's voting for Trump. And so it was very clear that everyone was more comfortable saying the Trump sentiment about, oh, my neighbor's going to do it. I'm not going to do it. My neighbor's going to do it. And so that's why he got so confident and he made the big bet.

• 28:59Speaker 02

  Well, it's interesting, like, I mean, you know, we said before it was close. And I thought being that close, she would be able to utilize a billion and a half money to make it work. And she didn't, obviously, because of her not being very smart and, and other reasons. But, you know, Trump was very adroit and, you know, in, in doing what he did. But in some ways, it wasn't close. And this is what I think you were getting at before. If you think about it, she had a billion and a half in hard money on top of all the PAC money. She outraised him a gazillion to one. She had the entire mainstream media on her side. And she had, you know, all these tech guys just writing her checks. I mean, just, and the entertainment industry, Saturday Night Live, the whole thing.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  That, Trump overcame that. Okay, now, if you look at the, and here's where it's, it's really not as close. If you look at it by issue, obviously, people have a problem with Donald Trump's personality. I don't, I've known, by the way, I've known him for like 25, 30 years. I've known him for a long time. And I've covered him and he's actually, he's a New Yorker, right? So he's a little crass. But a lot of people get turned off by it. But if you look at it by issue, he's way ahead of her on every issue. Way ahead of the Democrats on every issue, you know, incompetence in handling the economy, the border, you name it. The only thing he might not be ahead of her on is abortion, but it didn't matter that much. Because most people realize abortion is not illegal. And if you're in Mississippi and you wanted abortion.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  I don't know, does Mississippi ban abortion? I have no idea, but if just say it does, you can take a Greyhound to Florida, right? If you really want to get an abortion, it's not an impossibility. It's not illegal. It's a states by state thing. And most states have exceptions for rape and incest as they should. I happen to be pro-choice, just so you know, that's me, but you know, I, I have no problem with, with, with the Supreme Court decision on Roe and, uh, and, but, but that issue was negated. But, but on every other issue, he's way ahead. So in a sense, it wasn't close.

• 31:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's the impact of, uh, we don't have a president that's going to go in the White House and, uh, he definitely measures the health of the US economy by the stock market. It goes up, he thinks he's doing a great job, thinks the economy's healthy. Uh, but now, uh, when Bitcoin goes up, he's tweeting out, uh, you're welcome. And it's, he's obviously paying attention to the price. So Biden, I don't think he could have told you what the stock market price was. Uh, Trump obviously looks at it hour by hour almost. Um, does that mean that if the president is measuring the health of the economy on stock and Bitcoin price, that we should just expect this stuff to go up for four years?

• 31:33Speaker 02

  I think it's, it's probably a decent bet, yes. Particularly with stocks. Again, Bitcoin might be, might be a little.

• 31:41Anthony Pompliano?

  He's going to send it to the moon.

• 31:43Speaker 02

  Well, I hope so.

• 31:44Anthony Pompliano?

  You know, I think he's gonna do.

• 31:45Speaker 02

  What? Make it part of the strategic reserve.

• 31:48Anthony Pompliano?

  I think he knows that, uh, there's one, there's one, like you're playing a chess game, right? And there's one move left for the checkmate.

• 31:58Speaker 02

  Well, you know.

• 31:58Anthony Pompliano?

  He can't, he can't resist it.

• 32:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, there is this regulatory push when you, when you unshackle something that people start innovating and they start doing stuff. And they start believing in it. And I think.

• 32:13Anthony Pompliano?

  But that's a dotted line back to Trump.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know, I agree.

• 32:16Anthony Pompliano?

  Right, he likes straight lines.

• 32:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, but, but that's good.

• 32:18Anthony Pompliano?

  And if he bought, if he buys a million, a million Bitcoin.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  So here's the thing, people worry about the stock market because of tariffs.

• 32:25Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 32:26Speaker 02

  Right. If Trump is really someone who's obsessed with the number of the Dow and the S and P, um, he's not going to use tariffs except for, except for strategically, which will probably not disrupt majorly the, in a, in a major way, the, the, the trajectory of the stock market.

• 32:44Anthony Pompliano?

  Which he already did, right? With the first term is basically how he did use them.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, but he's threatened to become a little tougher this time. J D Vance is a much more of a trade hawk. Um, and JD's obviously has a role. JD Vance is also really smart. You know, he understands inflation. He understands that, you know, tariffs used in a sort of, um, you know, capricious way, you know, it's not, it's not, it's not beneficial. So, um, you know, I think if I'm adding it up, I'm bullish on both. I will just say that if Bitcoin and if, if the tech underlying technology is not there, I'm still a skeptic. Now, again, I could just be.

• 33:22Anthony Pompliano?

  What does that mean? You keep saying that. What's that mean?

• 33:24Speaker 02

  No, I'm just like a reporter skeptically reporting.

• 33:26Anthony Pompliano?

  No, I know.

• 33:27Speaker 02

  I mean.

• 33:27Anthony Pompliano?

  Probably if the technology is not there, like.

• 33:28Speaker 02

  Listen, listen, I do. Do I, do I believe the dollar is a dollar? Well, yes, within reason. It, we obviously print way too much of it, but I, I think if I go to the store and I buy, buy something, I can plop down a dollar or $2 or whatever.

• 33:42Anthony Pompliano?

  You can't buy anything for a dollar.

• 33:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. Maybe can't even buy a pack of gum anymore.

• 33:47Anthony Pompliano?

  I'm telling you.

• 33:48Speaker 02

  I remember when you could buy a slice of pizza for 25 cents. That shows you how old I am.

• 33:52Anthony Pompliano?

  All the, all the 99 cent pizza places are turning into dollar 99.

• 33:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know. I know. So it's a sad thing, but again, I want to see more utility, but, but I'm still going to cover it. I mean, this was the, one of the biggest stories was of, of the year was Trump embracing crypto. And at Fox Business, my producer, Eli Taret, was ahead. I was playing, uh, I was playing a secondary role there, but I was right there. So I saw this from the ground up and, um, it was funny though, like, cause I have access to some of the major players in the, uh, in the Trump sort of circle, just listening to these guys talk about crypto. They have no clue what they're talking about. And Trump, I, I, I just can't imagine he knows all, you know, you're going to sit here.

• 34:37Anthony Pompliano?

  You know what, you know what I think?

• 34:38Speaker 02

  Not that it matters, but I'm just saying.

• 34:40Anthony Pompliano?

  I, I, no, I think that he, uh, he does what most executives do. Which is uh.

• 34:46Speaker 02

  Listen to his kid. That's what he does.

• 34:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 34:48Speaker 02

  He's listening to Baron.

• 34:50Anthony Pompliano?

  You know what the craziest part is? Every single great investor that I've met through Bitcoin, I met because their kid.

• 34:55Speaker 02

  Told them.

• 34:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Either, either the kid reached out to me and said, hey, my dad doesn't believe this. He needs to hear from somebody else. Or uh, the dad reached out and said, hey, my kid's been telling me about this. I'm not listening to my kid.

• 35:07Speaker 02

  Although there's that shoe shine guy theory too, right? The shoe shine guy tells you to buy stocks. It's probably the end.

• 35:14Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, to a degree, except for if you're in the right building and every single great investor keeps coming down and telling the shoe shine guy what stocks he's buying.

• 35:22Speaker 02

  That's true, but they lost out too. Those, those great investors in 20. I, listen, I don't know. I mean, I'm just saying that I'm.

• 35:29Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up with the Fed? You think that Trump and the president should be more involved in monetary policy? Or you think the independence is important?

• 35:37Speaker 02

  You know, we had independence and he fucked everything up.

• 35:41Anthony Pompliano?

  Who did?

• 35:41Speaker 02

  Powell. Powell debased our currency. I mean, if you really want to know why people buy Bitcoin, that's one reason. You know, and if they're like, if, if, you know, they're all wringing their hands about, oh, these guys going into crypto.

• 35:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Did Powell do it or did Powell just extend the game because Bernanke did it?

• 35:57Speaker 02

  Well, it was a combination of both of them. You know, he was always easy money. And he just ramped it up tremendously when Biden got into office where they just lit the fuse on inflation, which. By the way, so I used to have all these people, really smart people. One guy, I don't want to say his name, works at CNBC. We have dinner every now and then. And they're like, we're in a restaurant in Manhattan, one of my favorites called the Ilios on the Upper East Side. And we're in there.

• 36:25Anthony Pompliano?

  No free ads on the show.

• 36:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. Okay. But it's really good to be honest with you. And I pay for every fucking dinner. So don't. I have, I have a table.

• 36:32Anthony Pompliano?

  I'm kidding.

• 36:33Speaker 02

  To be there because I spend so much money. Um, so.

• 36:36Anthony Pompliano?

  How much does that cost?

• 36:37Speaker 02

  It's a lot of money. I.

• 36:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Talking about.

• 36:39Speaker 02

  It's a Manhattan, it's a Manhattan restaurant. It's expensive, but I, it's worth it. I love the place. But we go in there and you know, he, this guy from CNBC would say. Look at this place. It's packed. People are buying wine. Biden economy is growing. It's doing it. So I'd listen to him and then I go to my diner and there's a diner I go to. My friend owns it. Mike is Greek immigrant. He's owned the Cooper Town diner on 20th Street forever, 20th and Second Avenue.

• 37:05Anthony Pompliano?

  There go the free ads. Go ahead.

• 37:06Speaker 02

  Good place. Not is expensive, a lot less expensive than an Ilios and Mike will tell it was would be crying to me every day. Oh, Charlie, I can't make a need, you know, prices are still high of my what we have, even though the inflation rate is down, his prices are still wickedly high from his suppliers. He can't raise them enough because it's his price point is beyond, you know, his, his average person is not a Wall Street executive. It's a construction worker or whoever is people in that neighborhood. And so inflation, there was a tale of two economies that I think a lot of people didn't pick up that Trump actually picked up on and Powell's responsible for that tale, two economies. He printed money when they didn't need to print money.

• 37:51Anthony Pompliano?

  Inflation was transitory.

• 37:52Speaker 02

  Yes. Remember that whole thing. By the way, we were coming out. Trump spent a ton of money with Congress, you know, you know, and there was low interest rates during the, um, during, you know, his last term, we're, and when, when everybody was getting the vaccine and we were opening up the economy in early to 2021, our economy was growing. It wasn't stagnant, yet they still kept printing money and Joe Biden still kept spending. So you got to.

• 38:17Anthony Pompliano?

  The infrastructure act, they had the CHIPS act, the inflation reduction.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. Which was a, like an inflation reduction. So it's a lie because it created inflation. Um, so think about that. This was beside, that's the fiscal side, the monetary side. If it's, it's independent and he did something so reckless, shouldn't he have someone to tell him, you can't do that, you shouldn't do that.

• 38:41Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, Biden called him into his office. Remember it's like the teacher getting called to the principal's office.

• 38:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. Print more money, please. I mean, that's what I'm saying. I mean, if it's, let's, let's take out the facade that it's all like it's, they're totally independent. You know, there is political pressure, but maybe there needs to be some more. I don't know. I, I mean, I, I just think.

• 38:59Anthony Pompliano?

  Do you think the president should set monetary policy?

• 39:02Speaker 02

  No, but, but.

• 39:06Speaker 02

  Him being Powell being independent is much as far as it goes. Set the stage for one of the biggest sort of tax increases on the working class of this country ever. Cause even as the rate came down, prices never came down and their wages never checked, it kept up and average people are hurting. The Ilios crowd markets, you could speculate if you got money, as you know, and you make a lot of money. But the average people can't speculate their 401k, they can't tap into that. They don't make enough money for it to matter anyway. So I'm just saying that, you know, there's a tale of two economies. Average people were get are getting fucked still.

• 39:48Speaker 02

  Inflation is the reason Jerome Powell bears responsibility for that. And that is not a case for him to be totally independent.

• 39:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Uh, right now, BLS says that the CPS 2.7%. You believe him?

• 40:03Speaker 02

  If it's 2.7%, it's still going up and the and on elevated prices are still going up two and a half percent or 2.7%. That's still not great.

• 40:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, no, it's bad if the number is right.

• 40:14Speaker 02

  Particularly if you're. Um, you know, I, I don't believe these numbers all the time because, you know, Zero Hedge did a lot of good work on this, on the, on the, on the, on the real sort of unemployment rate and, you know, and, and, and, you know, it catches up to you at some point, that number will be right. But often the first read on it is wrong and politicians use that to tout. But I think it's almost immaterial. It's inflation going up two and a half percent, 2.7% on inflated prices with wages kind of stagnant is not good. I mean, that's why you have a working class that's saying, fuck it, I want to change.

• 40:58Speaker 02

  I mean, it's just with the way it is. And, you know, if you're at CNBC touting, you know, crowds at Ilios for the reason why Joe Biden's a great president, well, then you actually have no clue about how this country.

• 41:11Anthony Pompliano?

  Does the president matter for the stock market anymore?

• 41:13Speaker 02

  Oh, absolutely.

• 41:14Anthony Pompliano?

  I don't think it matters.

• 41:15Speaker 02

  The president?

• 41:16Anthony Pompliano?

  No, it doesn't matter.

• 41:17Speaker 02

  Yes, it does.

• 41:17Anthony Pompliano?

  You want to debate it? I'll tell you why.

• 41:19Speaker 02

  Why?

• 41:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Stock market was up all time highs under Trump. Stock market was at all time highs under Biden. Stock market's gonna be at all time highs under Trump. The single most important thing for the stock market is actually are they printing or are they not? So the president can't

• 41:32Speaker 02

  Well, the single most important.

• 41:34Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, so like it doesn't matter who the president

• 41:37Speaker 02

  Okay, so so remember

• 41:38Anthony Pompliano?

  On either side of the

• 41:38Speaker 02

  How much has the stock market gone up just on Trump being elected?

• 41:42Anthony Pompliano?

  Of course, but it also went up.

• 41:43Speaker 02

  Because

• 41:44Anthony Pompliano?

  It also went up under Biden.

• 41:45Speaker 02

  No, but it didn't go up.

• 41:46Anthony Pompliano?

  And

• 41:47Speaker 02

  On Biden being elected.

• 41:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Hold on.

• 41:49Speaker 02

  Go up.

• 41:49Anthony Pompliano?

  Hold on, hold on. If you go back and you look over the last 40 years.

• 41:52Speaker 02

  No, it's up.

• 41:52Anthony Pompliano?

  It only went down, only went down under one president, W. Bush.

• 41:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 41:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Uh, the two best stock market performances.

• 41:59Speaker 02

  Well, it went, it went down during the financial crisis.

• 42:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, at the end of his term, right?

• 42:02Speaker 02

  So it went, it went up. It went up before that, right before the financial crisis. It was at a, it was at

• 42:07Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, but, but from start to finish, he ended up down. He's the only one over the last, you know, 40, 50 years. Uh, the two best performances were Clinton and Obama. Now Obama, because he started with low point, right? Whatever, but basically the stock market goes up.

• 42:20Speaker 02

  6,000.

• 42:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, stock market goes up.

• 42:22Speaker 02

  2000 in March 2009, Dow was 62 and because of your point QE. But I will posit that the, the layer on top of that is fiscal policy. And you know, and here's something else that we have to just sort of decouple the stock market. And I mean, listen, I'm, I'm in it. I cover it. I think stock, you know, investing in America, Inc. is a good thing. It's a good thing for average people to do as well.

• 42:47Speaker 02

  There are two economies. You know, what might be good for the stock market is not necessarily good for average Americans.

• 42:55Anthony Pompliano?

  And Biden is going to get credit for this. That's the other thing people don't talk about.

• 42:58Speaker 02

  I don't think so.

• 42:58Anthony Pompliano?

  No, no, no, he, he 100% does.

• 43:00Speaker 02

  Because when he For what?

• 43:01Anthony Pompliano?

  When he started, no, when he started

• 43:02Speaker 02

  Thrown out.

• 43:03Anthony Pompliano?

  No, but, but, uh, he gets credit for all of this stock move. When they look back, they're going to say from the day he took office to the day he left office, even though the stock market is going up because Trump is the incoming president.

• 43:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:14Anthony Pompliano?

  His clock doesn't start till he's actually the president. So what's fascinating is

• 43:18Speaker 02

  Well, I think Bitcoin's So you're going to say in the history books, they're going to say, well, Joe Biden was president while this massive rally is going on.

• 43:23Anthony Pompliano?

  From November, from November 5th till January.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  Maybe, but

• 43:26Anthony Pompliano?

  All this gain actually counts for Biden, even though you and I probably agree that people are doing it because Trump's coming in.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  I think most people are sentient enough to distinguish between the Trump trade and

• 43:37Anthony Pompliano?

  No, no, no, right, right now. But I'm saying when we look back, they're just gonna look at data, right? They're gonna say, hey, from the day you start to the day you end, who, who is, gets what? So it's this crazy thing where the data can lie to you.

• 43:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, yes, I mean, you know, if you're gonna look at it that way, but if you're gonna look at it in a, you know, peel like even like a piece of the skin off of the onion, just a little bit, you'll know that this is a Trump trade that's going on. The other thing is, again, there's two economies. I mean, is it, you know, yes, I want the stock market to appreciate, you know, go up, should at least go up to the rate of inflation or something. I want companies to prosper, you know, AI could be a big thing for the future. And, you know, we've always wanted to be the center of advancement of, of, of technology. It's one of the things I think Trump said about crypto, like, we want the technology,

• 44:27Speaker 02

  not just the coin, the technology to be centered here. Okay. By the way, for, for the technology to be centered here, we need alternative sources of energy like nuclear power, which is another interesting topic we can get into, but that's, that's a whole other story. But my, my point is that there are two economies. There's the market economy and then there's the real economy. Donald Trump, if he wants to get, if you, if he wants JD Vance to become the next president, we should worry about the markets, but his biggest focus should be on Main Street. And I think that's

• 44:57Anthony Pompliano?

  So why is that? Secure the border? He's gonna build more housing? What else you gotta do?

• 45:01Speaker 02

  I think you secure the border. I don't know how you build more housing with, maybe you take off regulations that prevent housing construction.

• 45:07Anthony Pompliano?

  The, the challenge or the complexity is that the regulations usually at the local level and not the federal level.

• 45:12Speaker 02

  Right, right. So it's not easy, right? There is something

• 45:15Anthony Pompliano?

  Unless you build on federal land.

• 45:17Speaker 02

  There is something called HUD, but I can't imagine that HUD is gonna go expansionary housing projects left and right. But, you know, maybe there's ways to influence it. I would say you close the border, you start using tariffs strategically.

• 45:33Speaker 02

  You deregulate the economy, the stupid regulations that were imposed by, by the Biden administration. And that goes across agencies, FCC, FTC.

• 45:45Speaker 02

  You know, they, they were killing like mergers that were like ridiculous. That's one reason why the stock market's going up. People think there's going to be mergers, right? That's good for stocks because they were killing everywhere.

• 45:55Anthony Pompliano?

  IPOs.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  I mean, I think it's going up and I think SEC, I mean, one reason Bitcoin's going up because Gary Gonzalez is getting the boot and they're not going to be regulation by enforcement. And I think you put all that together, you could have an economy like 2019, which wouldn't be so bad.

• 46:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Do you think that Trump buys Bitcoin for the Bitcoin Strategic Reserve? Or do you think that that sounds good, but he's going to have a hard time doing it?

• 46:21Speaker 02

  You know, his Treasury Secretary would have a, play a role theoretically. And Scott Besson, I, I don't know where he stands on Bitcoin. I, he strikes me as a, what do they call them tradfi? Is that what it's called?

• 46:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Traditional finance, tradfi?

• 46:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, someone called me a tradfi the other day. I was like, what the fuck is that?

• 46:41Anthony Pompliano?

  Just tell them I'm not tradfi, I'm a New Yorker.

• 46:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:46Speaker 02

  We were going to, I think we were going to your party, your Christmas party or one of your parties.

• 46:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  You had something.

• 46:51Anthony Pompliano?

  Tell people about the party.

• 46:51Speaker 02

  You had something at a, at a, at a restaurant and some guy was like.

• 46:56Anthony Pompliano?

  It wasn't Ilios though.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  No, no, it was in, it was, I don't know where it was. It was in, it was on 22nd Street or something.

• 47:02Anthony Pompliano?

  It's all be telling the people the locations of the party.

• 47:04Speaker 02

  I know it was in a hotel.

• 47:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Now they know there's parties, now they know where they are.

• 47:07Speaker 02

  Just so you know. So I go in.

• 47:08Anthony Pompliano?

  No, no, no, don't be saying that. There's a lot of people in trouble right now for hotel parties. We were in a restaurant in a hotel.

• 47:14Speaker 02

  Yes, that is true. So some guy came up to me and said, you know, introduced himself. He goes, why are you so tradfi?

• 47:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, why are you?

• 47:21Speaker 02

  And I was like, what is tradfi?

• 47:23Anthony Pompliano?

  You said that to him?

• 47:24Speaker 02

  I was like, what? And then.

• 47:26Anthony Pompliano?

  And then he said, exactly.

• 47:27Speaker 02

  No, then Ellie said, oh, it's traditional finance. And I said, oh, I said, I don't know. And I mean, can you buy pizza with Bitcoin?

• 47:37Speaker 02

  And then, then he kept like talking to me. Then I like, I ran away. I was like, all right, I'm busy. I said, you know what time it is? He goes, yeah, I said, it's, it's, I'm off of work. I'm done. Give me a drink. So.

• 47:49Speaker 02

  Uh, where was I going with this?

• 47:51Anthony Pompliano?

  You're going back to how Bitcoin you think is gonna go up because Trump's gonna buy it?

• 47:55Speaker 02

  Well, I don't know. And I don't know if, oh yeah, this is it. I don't know if Scott Besant is tradfi.

• 48:01Anthony Pompliano?

  I don't know if it matters. Well, he's definitely tradfi, but I think he is, uh, uh, open.

• 48:05Speaker 02

  Or sufficiently, sufficiently open to negate his.

• 48:08Anthony Pompliano?

  I don't think that.

• 48:09Speaker 02

  Tradfi-ness.

• 48:09Anthony Pompliano?

  I don't think that Trump puts a anti Bitcoin Treasury Secretary in place.

• 48:13Speaker 02

  Well, I don't know if it's anti Bitcoin, but I don't think he asked them about that. I think it was other things.

• 48:18Anthony Pompliano?

  I, I would bet.

• 48:19Speaker 02

  I bet a lot of money. It was trade, it was budget deficits, it was taxes. That was his main thing. Remember, what is his big mantra? Three, three, three. Cut 3% growth, cut the budget deficit.

• 48:34Anthony Pompliano?

  3%.

• 48:35Speaker 02

  And there was one other three.

• 48:36Anthony Pompliano?

  I don't remember. Yeah, maybe. But it sounds good.

• 48:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, it sounds good. But I'm, but I'm just saying Bitcoin did not fit in that.

• 48:42Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 48:43Speaker 02

  That calculus. So.

• 48:44Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, Bitcoin will go up 3X.

• 48:45Speaker 02

  It might, and it might not. I don't know. But, uh, you know, I, I just, I, I just want to cover the, the ride here is gonna be interesting because it's, uh, it's, it's definitely a new, a new ballgame. And he, you know, he's got a lot on his plate too. Let's be clear here. Trump.

• 49:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Trump.

• 49:02Speaker 02

  You know, he's got, closing the border is not gonna be easy.

• 49:05Anthony Pompliano?

  You don't think so?

• 49:06Speaker 02

  It should be simple, but it's, you know, you know, you got courts that weigh in and it's a big pain in the ass. Um.

• 49:12Anthony Pompliano?

  What do you think about, uh, I saw, uh, Tom Homan. You know that guy, right?

• 49:16Speaker 02

  I don't know, but I don't.

• 49:17Anthony Pompliano?

  But you know who he is.

• 49:18Speaker 02

  I like, I like what I hear from him.

• 49:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I, I saw him and, uh, I don't think this is out of bounds. I, I said to him, I said, uh, I heard that, uh, you go on leash the tier one special ops on, uh, on the cartels. He said, let's see what happens.

• 49:32Speaker 02

  You know, it's funny you said that because I was listening to Rogan.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  You know, when I work out.

• 49:40Anthony Pompliano?

  I recess. You listen to Joe Rogan?

• 49:43Speaker 02

  And so I was work, I work out to Rogan and a few other podcasts and I am, and he had, what do you have on, not Sean Ryan, he had the guy from Black Rifle Coffee.

• 49:55Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 49:55Speaker 02

  Evan Hayfer.

• 49:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, Evan Hayfer. That's a good memory, yeah.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  So they were talking, cause he was a special, he was a special forces guy, Hayfer was, he was.

• 50:03Anthony Pompliano?

  I'm impressed you know who Sean Ryan is, Evan Hayfer.

• 50:05Speaker 02

  I, I, I listen to all their stuff. And so, um, so Evan Hayfer was talking about unleashing the, uh, the special ops guys.

• 50:14Anthony Pompliano?

  They'll fuck around.

• 50:16Speaker 02

  And, you know, he said, well, the cartels think they're tough. I mean, they terrorize villages and, you know, rape and murder women and children. But you start fucking with special ops guys, you're, you're fucking with another level. I mean, you, you don't, um, you don't believe what they are capable of doing, what they have done that we don't even know about.

• 50:34Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 50:35Speaker 02

  Which is the way it should be.

• 50:36Anthony Pompliano?

  But I think that if, uh, it came, that's kind of like Canada, you know, the, the state of Canada is now, uh, gonna join the, uh, the United States of America.

• 50:42Speaker 02

  I heard it, Governor Trudeau.

• 50:44Anthony Pompliano?

  But yeah, but, but, you know, when he came out, he said, look, I'm gonna put the 25% tariff on Mexico and Canada. Mexican president called in fucking two hours. Trudeau's down in Mar-a-Lago two days later.

• 50:53Speaker 02

  I mean, you know, it is, it is amazing that these like two bit leaders of these countries were like, it was like the tail wagging the dog with Biden and Kamala Harris. They were so weak. You know, Trump in one day says, hey, I'm gonna put the 25%. No, please don't. Here's, we'll give you everything. I mean, you know, we are America. We should, why should we be getting fucked every, at every turn?

• 51:17Anthony Pompliano?

  I think there's a big thing if, um, if they just announced they're gonna use the tier one special ops, the cartel, uh, their businessmen.

• 51:23Speaker 02

  They may just leave.

• 51:24Anthony Pompliano?

  No, no, I, I think that they, hey, let's, uh, let's negotiate. Right? I, I think that there's a, there's a lot of change happens. Cause, by the way, we've seen this in other places in the world. A lot of people forget, you know.

• 51:35Speaker 02

  It'd be nice if they killed some of those cartel people first before we let them go.

• 51:38Anthony Pompliano?

  It, it will, look, if you go and you do a dissection of how the Taliban makes money, people will be surprised. Obviously there's drugs, there's, there's all things you would expect. They control some of the mines.

• 51:47Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 51:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? You know, there, there, there's a lot of stuff that they have that, and it's business.

• 51:51Speaker 02

  We, they shouldn't be in our country though. I mean, I think the, the negotiation is you stay, we kill you. And if you and that's it, you know, you can do whatever you want in Mexico, but you stay, we kill you. And then we tell Mexico, if you, if you, you know, if you keep smuggling, if they keep smuggling drugs across, that's like almost an act of war.

• 52:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 52:10Speaker 02

  So be prepared. I mean, I think you gotta do that. I think that what's great about Tom Homan and Trump is I think they have, I know they have it in them to say that, uh, because they ain't woke. That's for sure.

• 52:22Anthony Pompliano?

  One of the things I've thought a lot about is you grew up in New York, right?

• 52:25Speaker 02

  I grew up in, I lived in the Bronx until I was six, seven, and I grew up in a place called Yorktown Heights, New York.

• 52:32Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. So, uh, if you go back 30, 40 years now, uh, the Italian mafia was big. And I would argue, I think a lot of people would argue that in certain neighborhoods, not all neighborhoods, but in certain neighborhoods, they had a monopoly on violence and they had an ethos to them that was, you know, mess with women and children. Certain things were inbound, certain things were out of bounds. They allegedly had even different activities that they would engage in, not engage in, whatever. When the mafia fell, the monopoly of violence in those neighborhoods shifted from them to the state.

• 53:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's true.

• 53:09Anthony Pompliano?

  And when the monopoly of violence shifted to the state, the ethos, the values of the state were very different than the mafia.

• 53:16Speaker 02

  You know, there is a glamour. I know a lot about the Italian mafia only because I have family members that know a lot about it for reasons we don't need to get into.

• 53:29Speaker 02

  There's a glamour glamorizing of it. That's unwarranted because a lot of these guys were cold-blooded murderers, torturous killers. Um, that being said, yes, there were rules. You deal or die was a big rule in, in the Gambino family.

• 53:48Anthony Pompliano?

  That doesn't mean.

• 53:49Speaker 02

  Deal, deal drugs. Yeah, that doesn't mean there wasn't drug dealers in the Gambino family, but it was an overriding rule. They hated that because, you know, it was just people go to jail for a long time and it's, um, you know, you, you try not to, you, you don't kill women and children. You leave them out of it, you know?

• 54:05Anthony Pompliano?

  The, the reason I bring it up is because.

• 54:07Speaker 02

  But that, by the way, there's no such rules by the cartels.

• 54:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Of course.

• 54:10Speaker 02

  Family.

• 54:10Anthony Pompliano?

  But, but here's, here's where I'm going with this is, um, if you think about, uh, the value system that governed. New York is kind of a microcosm, but the entire country, there are certain areas where there was kind of American values. There are certain areas where there was Italian

• 54:25Speaker 02

  values. There are certain areas where now, pretty much across the entire country, there

• 54:29Anthony Pompliano?

  is the government values. And the truth is that the government is pretty much an inanimate object that doesn't have a value system that is similar to these past times.

• 54:37Speaker 02

  It does. I wrote a whole book about it. And one of the things about my book that's interesting is, my book is about how corporate America started reflecting the sort of progressive values of the AOCs and the far left of this country. But what I get into a lot in Go Woke, Go Broke is how government started pushing these things, particularly during the Obama years, and in a major way through the Biden years, which foisted it upon other cultural centers such as media, which didn't need much convincing because it's very woke in itself. And even though it is a business, and corporate America, there's no greater signal of that

• 55:21Speaker 02

  you have to adopt cultural change, i.e. tell kids they might be trans when they're five, which is what was going on there for a while. And that's what Ron DeSantis tried to prevent when he wanted that law that said you can't teach sex ed, particularly gender fluidity, to children. Okay?

• 55:42Anthony Pompliano?

  I mean, it's pretty crazy.

• 55:43Speaker 02

  It's pretty crazy. Disney opposed that. First, didn't get involved, then opposed the new law. Think about that. Bob Chapek used, and I get into this a lot in my book, used the power of the Disney shareholder to say children should be taught gender fluidity in schools. And he came out and was going to oppose the law and use the marketing might of Disney and the lobbying might. That's outrageous. To me, it's one of the sort of, it was one of the low points or the high point, however you want, to put it, in corporate wokeness. And it started unraveling after that. DeSantis, as you know, eventually won, won the case, went to court, looking to remove Disney's status as an independent

• 56:28Speaker 02

  entity which he he cut a deal with it, which essentially happened.

• 56:32Anthony Pompliano?

  It's like Vivek Ramaswamy, right? With Strive Asset Management basically said, hey, look, we're going to be a big shareholder. We're going to have the same kind of investing strategy as everybody else.

• 56:40Speaker 02

  We're going to fight you.

• 56:41Anthony Pompliano?

  We're just going to, if you send a a letter saying that you want.

• 56:43Speaker 02

  We're going to do, we're going to do what BlackRock is doing. So that is happening. But remember, the it all comes from like, because you made a statement about how government has no values. It does. It embraced sort of a sort of neo Marxism of corporate of wokeness that said to children, you need to be taught this. And you know this because the Biden administration fought for laws that allowed transing of kids.

• 57:13Anthony Pompliano?

  But basically, those aren't values, right?

• 57:15Speaker 02

  Oh, no, they are values.

• 57:16Anthony Pompliano?

  No, no, to me, it is. To me, it is. If you pursue the avoidance of offending anyone, that's where you end up.

• 57:27Speaker 02

  No, it's more than that. It's it's it's a proselytizing. It's a proselytizing set of values of of of.

• 57:35Anthony Pompliano?

  That's scary.

• 57:35Speaker 02

  It that's what America rebelled against. It's it's it's almost, you're essentially gaslighting the American people to believe men could be women and women could be. Listen, I have trans friends. I I in my book, I use preferred pronouns. Trans people deserve every right. I'm not, this was not an anti-trans book. This was a book about shoving a cultural change down the throats of American people and not just on the gender issue, but on race, on diversity, on climate, that we have to believe in these sets of very progressive facts, or else we are evil and should be canceled. And we're going to, and and that came from government, got foisted on business and business became

• 58:18Speaker 02

  a major player in that and how I said that was outrageous. It's not just wrong. It's illegal. It's against the fiduciary responsibility of every CEO. And how there became a backlash to that. Thank God, not just a consumer backlash, but a legal backlash.

• 58:34Anthony Pompliano?

  What are you most excited about in 2025, finance wise?

• 58:39Speaker 02

  Um.

• 58:41Speaker 02

  You know, AI is going to be interesting. Is it?

• 58:44Anthony Pompliano?

  You like it?

• 58:45Speaker 02

  Well, I, you know, it's interesting.

• 58:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Are you scared of it?

• 58:47Speaker 02

  Good friend of mine is Tucker Carlson. I love Tucker. He's a colleague of mine.

• 58:51Anthony Pompliano?

  Cancelled?

• 58:52Speaker 02

  Cancelled, but he hates AI and I listen to his podcast. He's another guy. I listen to his podcast all the time. It's great.

• 58:57Anthony Pompliano?

  But why does he hate AI?

• 58:58Speaker 02

  He thinks it's, it's going to take jobs and take over the world and.

• 59:01Anthony Pompliano?

  You think it could take your job?

• 59:02Speaker 02

  It can't.

• 59:03Anthony Pompliano?

  No? Why not?

• 59:05Speaker 02

  I've seen all the writing that, first off, AI is a shitty writer.

• 59:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 59:09Speaker 02

  It's horrible.

• 59:10Anthony Pompliano?

  But right now is the worst it's ever gonna be.

• 59:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, and, yeah, but even if they get a lot better, they can't report.

• 59:16Anthony Pompliano?

  Why not?

• 59:17Speaker 02

  Well, when was the last time you spoke to a bot?

• 59:20Anthony Pompliano?

  I speak to a bot every single day.

• 59:22Speaker 02

  They have to like, you know, there's something called libel.

• 59:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 59:24Speaker 02

  I mean, you know, people forget journalism is a, is a craft.

• 59:30Anthony Pompliano?

  ABC just learned that.

• 59:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, they all have. And here's what I would tell you. Here's what I would tell you. I, when you work for me and my, when I do my thing, you know, you have to go, you, you have to not just write it well. You have to report it out and it's gotta be legal.

• 59:47Anthony Pompliano?

  What do you think about the ABC George Stephanopoulos situation? You know, cause, cause let me frame this for people who aren't paying attention. So he was, he was interviewing, I think Nancy Mace, politician. He said.

• 59:59Speaker 02

  Who was a survivor of sexual abuse, by the way.

• 1:00:01Anthony Pompliano?

  And, and he, he said that Trump was liable for.

• 1:00:05Speaker 02

  And something came up, I believe, about her experience.

• 1:00:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 1:00:09Speaker 02

  And then she goes, and then he said something like, wait a second, you're supporting Donald Trump, who has been, I don't want to put words in his mouth, but you know, he didn't say convicted of rape. He said some.

• 1:00:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Libel. I think he said libel.

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  Libel. No, he said, he said, we should get the exact word, but he basically.

• 1:00:26Anthony Pompliano?

  He said something that opened up to legal exposure.

• 1:00:28Speaker 02

  Because he used rape that, and so now here's the whole thing. Trump was accused by a woman named E. Jean Carroll.

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  Who said, who, who, who said, like, decades earlier, okay, not yesterday, but decades earlier, he walked in off the street in a Bergoff Goodman, where she was there, threw her, like, in a changing closet, and had his way with her. Okay, which, I'm sorry. In a store. In a store. I didn't know that was the. Oh, yeah, yeah. So, to me, that sounds fantastical. She, she didn't tell anybody, I mean, apparently, this, this, this thing came years later, right? She brought him to court, New York, you know, a place where he's not well-liked. He, she sued him for defamation when he denied it, said she, I don't know, he said something about her, and that wasn't so nice. And. Shocker.

• 1:01:22Speaker 02

  The shock, right? And the court said he was liable for, for sexual assault, that rape.

• 1:01:32Speaker 02

  George Stephanopoulos used the words, word rape.

• 1:01:37Speaker 02

  So, like, without the context of just how this thing happened, I mean, this didn't happen yesterday. Yeah. I'm not, it, listen, if it happened three decades ago, I wouldn't excuse it, but, you know, where was the charge? I mean, you know what I'm saying? I mean, doesn't it sound a little crazy, like, he walks in the middle of a store, no one knows, this is Donald Trump, who's well-known in the eighties, trust me, or the early nineties, wherever this allegedly took place. So even without all that sort of, all that background, George Stephanopoulos uses the word rape, and it caught me by surprise, I was like, whoa, rape? That's not what, that's not what went down, because I knew about the case a little bit, I was covering it from another angle. Um, and what I think he compounded it, he never apologized.

• 1:02:18Speaker 02

  Like, he should have came out, like, immediately and said, just for the record, or his producer, for the record, Donald Trump was not, you know. Yeah, made a mistake, live television. Yeah, this is, it was sexual assault, and we regret it, we won't mention it again, but apparently, it just, you know, it went on and on, and, and so I think that, that's. Listen, that shouldn't happen. But everybody screws up. Don't get me wrong. I think there are certain things, you know, you try to, one of the things I teach the kids that work for me, including Eli Terret, is like, you know, blocking and tackling is big. You know, follow the process. We all fuck up. We will fuck up. We will make mistakes. But if you, if you're honest and you, you're, and you're, and you're transparent, I write a lot of tough stories. Trust me,

• 1:03:01Speaker 02

  everybody knows what I'm writing about them. Tell me where I got it wrong. Explain it to me. I mean, I go through it.

• 1:03:07Anthony Pompliano?

  What's the most painful one you've ever written?

• 1:03:10Speaker 02

  Most painful story?

• 1:03:13Speaker 02

  Um, I wrote a story about a CEO's son who was a crack addict. And you got to ask yourself, well, why is that a story? Well, the CEO's son who was a crack addict, the CEO was the CEO of, it was Sandy Weil, the CEO of Citigroup, the biggest bank in the world. His son was on the executive committee, ran the investment portfolio. And he was an adult who was addicted to drugs. And there was a lot of soul searching on that, like, do we go there? You know? And in the end, we were like, you know, people write about poor people,

• 1:03:48Speaker 02

  you know, being addicted to drugs all the time. There is a message here that this affects rich people. This guy is not just a broker. If he was just a broker at the bank, I would be like, okay. You know, but he was on the, he was like a major player at the bank that had this obvious drug problem. And, you know.

• 1:04:06Anthony Pompliano?

  Why was it obvious? Somebody called you and told you?

• 1:04:08Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. He was in meetings with people and stuff like that. Yes. And it was, it was, it was sad. It was a sad story from a guy that was apparently a nice guy that, um, you know, had this issue. And I wrote about it.

• 1:04:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. I saw recently, there was an article that came out that said, like, everyone on Wall Street's doing drugs. You see that?

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:26Anthony Pompliano?

  They're saying like cocaine, uh, they were saying, um.

• 1:04:29Speaker 02

  Now, maybe it's just me, because they don't do them.

• 1:04:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Adderall.

• 1:04:31Speaker 02

  I go to bed at like nine o'clock at night these days.

• 1:04:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Except for when you're at the party on 22nd Street.

• 1:04:36Speaker 02

  You know, I never was, I mean, I knew a lot of Wall Street guys. I was never like around like people rampant drug use. Cause you're a journalist, not gonna invite you and be like, hey, watch, watch us do this.

• 1:04:50Speaker 02

  You know, I mean, we're friends. I mean, I go out with, I go out with guys that were on, they were never like dropping lines in front of me. Oh, let's do one, just never happened. I mean, I. You think they're, you're jealous they're doing it with other journalists? Oh, I wouldn't do it anyway. I haven't touched, listen, when I was a kid, I did a lot of crazy stuff. But um, I haven't done crazy stuff since I was, since I was a kid. But you know, um, I mean, that's just not me. I mean, you know, I, you know, what, what, what gets me going? I like, you could look at my, uh, my Instagram feed, food and workout videos, you know? So I mean, you know, I just don't, I don't engage in that. But no one has ever, I've never seen it and I've known covers Wall Street more than me.

• 1:05:33Speaker 02

  It was funny. Once I was in the Bear Stearns elevator. I want to say this is before they blew up. So yeah, it was, it was in 2006. Bear Stearns stock was at the highest. I was in Bear Stearns executive elevator with the CEO Jimmy Kane. Remember Jimmy Kane? Good guy. And Jimmy goes, hey, put out your hand. So I put out my hand and he drops a joint to my hand. I'm like, what the fuck is this? He goes, take it, take it, just smoke it. It's good for you. I'm like, Jimmy, I mean, what am I 15? I mean, come on, what is this? You know, my, you know, he starts talking about how he smoked, he smoked, but this all came out later on, how much pot he smoked. And I was like, I'm not taking this. Get, get the fuck out of here. So that was about as close as it came to me.

• 1:06:17Speaker 02

  And it was a joint. It wasn't a line of coke. That's fine. He apparently did, he had a medical condition where he did it, just so you know, just to, he wasn't like some.

• 1:06:28Speaker 02

  All right. Where, where can we some people to find the book? So the book, which we talked nothing about. We did talk about the book. No. We talked about the whole thing. Oh, I, I had to like bring it up. Are we done? Are we done now? No, go. What do you want to talk about? Cause I want to talk about my fucking book. We talked about the book. I think we should talk more about it. All right. Did you go ahead? Did you read it? Do I, did I? No, you didn't even. I'm gonna get. I think you want me to go get a copy. We'll go to the Barnes and Noble. We just read it out loud on the podcast. Yes. Read the whole fucking thing. A greeting. That would be a star. Yeah. Jaco Will next time. It's another guy I listened to. Shocker. Yeah. So you know.

• 1:07:06Speaker 02

  Why should people buy it? Because I think you want to know where like how where you work is, you know, is being pushed, had to be pushed to the center of the political debate because the CEOs of these companies were de facto as arms of the democratic left and the democratic left. In my view, the left is a demonic force of this country. If you're gonna, if you, if you're gonna lead an effort to convince parents that your toddler at five could be a girl, he's a boy, could be a girl. That to me is getting very close to satanic. And that doesn't mean kids that have this issue, we should like lock them up.

• 1:07:49Speaker 02

  I mean, we should, I mean, counseling is something that's very good. But, you know, this sort of movement to just change the entire ethos of the country to believe in leftism, that, that America is systemically racist because, and you should be taught by Ibram X. Kindy about how you have, you, you're a white male, therefore you have to be, that we have to excise the demons from you, the racist demons, because some cop in Minnesota mishandled an arrest that killed somebody unfortunate, you know, but that doesn't mean I'm a systemic, I'm a systemically racist. Companies engaged in that at the very top of our economy and they're huge companies. And I think you kind of want to know this and shareholders should know this.

• 1:08:35Speaker 02

  Average people should know this and you should know as a consumer and you should also know that you don't have to fucking take it anymore. And you can rebel against it. If Budweiser tells you that putting a trans woman in a bubble bath, half naked, sipping a Bud is like, okay, drink another beer. I mean, you can, you can rebel and it could change things and it has changed things. I think people have a bigger voice than they realize. Yes, they do. And Bitcoin might be part of that voice. I'm still, still like gauging. I don't know. Listen, do you own any? No, I don't own shit that I write about. Yeah, but why don't you like put in a trust or something? Eh, I still own it. It's in a trust. That's like one of those dodges. I don't know, for your kids.

• 1:09:20Speaker 02

  Trust me.

• 1:09:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Don't punish your kids, because you know.

• 1:09:23Speaker 02

  You don't want to, you just don't want to go there, in my view. I mean, yes.

• 1:09:27Anthony Pompliano?

  You know, a lot of journalists, they own like indexes and stuff.

• 1:09:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, I do that.

• 1:09:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:09:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:31Anthony Pompliano?

  So not single names?

• 1:09:32Speaker 02

  It's hard to, you just don't want to go there. It's really, muni bonds, I love, you know.

• 1:09:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, don't even get me started, come on.

• 1:09:40Speaker 02

  You don't like it? It's the best tax break in the world. That's a tax break, they probably should get rid of, but they're not, you know?

• 1:09:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Bonds, bonds are losers.

• 1:09:47Speaker 02

  Muni bonds are good, believe it or not.

• 1:09:49Anthony Pompliano?

  What's the rate?

• 1:09:50Speaker 02

  Tax free rate? You can get 5% tax free.

• 1:09:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Not keeping up with inflation.

• 1:09:55Speaker 02

  Yes, it is, it's tax free.

• 1:09:56Anthony Pompliano?

  No, no, at 5%, it's not keeping up with inflation.

• 1:09:58Speaker 02

  And it's 8% if it's tax free.

• 1:10:00Anthony Pompliano?

  Huh?

• 1:10:00Speaker 02

  If it's 8%.

• 1:10:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Still not tax, it's still not.

• 1:10:04Speaker 02

  Inflation is what, 2.7%?

• 1:10:06Anthony Pompliano?

  Come on, stop it. Just tell. Inflation is the change in the money supply.

• 1:10:10Speaker 02

  Right, it's 2.7% right now.

• 1:10:12Anthony Pompliano?

  No, no way, no way. They're adding a trillion dollars every 100 days.

• 1:10:17Speaker 02

  Do you know, well, I mean, I'm just saying, it is what it is. I mean, this hasn't gone up that much in the last day, you know? I'm just telling you that it's, if you're getting stuff tax free, you should take advantage of tax free.

• 1:10:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Maybe.

• 1:10:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, remember, when you.

• 1:10:34Anthony Pompliano?

  I think you should be trying to do 10x, not 10%.

• 1:10:36Speaker 02

  So when you sell your Bitcoin, which you say you won't sell, but if you sold it right now, how much would you have to pay in taxes?

• 1:10:42Anthony Pompliano?

  I'm not selling.

• 1:10:43Speaker 02

  I suppose you did, suppose you did.

• 1:10:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Trump's gonna get in office, he's gonna remove capital gains tax.

• 1:10:48Speaker 02

  You're, no, he's not, he can't get rid of it all.

• 1:10:50Anthony Pompliano?

  He's gonna get rid of it for Bitcoin, why, why is a currency?

• 1:10:53Speaker 02

  You think he will?

• 1:10:53Anthony Pompliano?

  No, I actually don't think he will, but, but why is a currency?

• 1:10:56Speaker 02

  Let me ask you this, so what is the capital gains tax again? 15, is it 15?

• 1:11:00Anthony Pompliano?

  You don't sell that much, huh?

• 1:11:01Speaker 02

  No, I never sell.

• 1:11:02Anthony Pompliano?

  No, neither do I. 20%.

• 1:11:04Speaker 02

  20%.

• 1:11:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Long term.

• 1:11:06Speaker 02

  I was close, so long term capital gains at 20%, you own, man, you're gonna get hosed, dude.

• 1:11:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Why?

• 1:11:13Speaker 02

  If you sell.

• 1:11:14Anthony Pompliano?

  If I sell now, I'll get more than I was gonna get on November 1st.

• 1:11:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you're still gonna get hosed.

• 1:11:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Nah, come on.

• 1:11:20Speaker 02

  I'm telling you, that's the, whenever.

• 1:11:21Anthony Pompliano?

  That's why you don't sell. Whenever. The government doesn't want you to sell.

• 1:11:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course they don't want you to sell, they want you to hold on to it until it goes down.

• 1:11:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Nah.

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  Then you gotta sell, then you gotta pay capital gains on that. I'm just saying, whenever you get, I'm not.

• 1:11:34Anthony Pompliano?

  I think that they.

• 1:11:34Speaker 02

  Listen, I'm not telling you to put all your money in munis, trust me on this, but whenever the government gives you a tax break to do something. You probably should do that.

• 1:11:43Anthony Pompliano?

  I think that, uh,

• 1:11:44Speaker 02

  That isn't

• 1:11:45Anthony Pompliano?

  You need to spend more time on the internet. If the government is incentivizing me to do something, I'm probably interested in something else.

• 1:11:49Speaker 02

  No, it's a tax haven. What do you think rich people do? They put money in tax havens. That's how they make money. That's how they get exponentially rich, of course.

• 1:11:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Do you think that?

• 1:11:59Speaker 02

  You think, you think, you, you think Jeff Bezos doesn't look for tax breaks?

• 1:12:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, you can look for tax breaks.

• 1:12:03Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:12:03Anthony Pompliano?

  But do you think that?

• 1:12:04Speaker 02

  He looks to try not to pay taxes. That's how you do it.

• 1:12:06Anthony Pompliano?

  I know, but 99% of his wealth has nothing to do with taxes.

• 1:12:09Speaker 02

  Well, who knows where he's got his money locked up?

• 1:12:11Anthony Pompliano?

  He's created value.

• 1:12:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, but who, he's created value, but he's got it locked up in some vehicle.

• 1:12:15Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's called stock.

• 1:12:16Speaker 02

  He's just, no, no, it's called tax efficient investing. There's a way of doing it.

• 1:12:20Anthony Pompliano?

  He could do it.

• 1:12:21Speaker 02

  Get it, you gotta, you know what you do?

• 1:12:22Anthony Pompliano?

  You want me to get a tax?

• 1:12:23Speaker 02

  I want you to get a tax economist accounted on here and talk to him about it, so.

• 1:12:27Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, they're the same people who taught everyone not to buy Bitcoin.

• 1:12:29Speaker 02

  I don't think so. They don't tell you what to do. They just tell you how to avoid taxes.

• 1:12:33Anthony Pompliano?

  That's true, that's true. Yeah, but I, I always say that when you, uh, when you write your, uh, tax check, you should, you should smile. You're contributing to the economy. You're contributing to the government.

• 1:12:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I want to pay as least as possible.

• 1:12:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:44Speaker 02

  That's Trump.

• 1:12:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:46Speaker 02

  Think about Trump. You, you tell me the smartest guy. It's the one guy that doesn't want to pay any taxes, which he apparently, according to the, his leaked documents, you know? You, you know? I, I, this guy, we should end it on this. And this is why I'm hopeful for the next four years. You know, I have been critical of Trump. Trust me, he's yelled at me, he's yelled at me to my face, like, you know? Then I would tell him, I go, Donald, you're running for president. Come on, he goes, okay. He, he's actually a really nice guy. But what I like about him, he's the most vetted president ever. I don't think there's any, I mean, there may be some. I mean, there's always possible that there's drones flying around New Jersey. We don't know what the hell that is.

• 1:13:28Anthony Pompliano?

  Allegedly.

• 1:13:29Speaker 02

  Allegedly, right? But, you know, he's the most vetted guy in the world. Joe Biden was the most unvetted guy. And look what we got. You know, we got like, like a barely alive guy in the Oval Office with his son and, you know, his family business on top of all the other shit he did.

• 1:13:50Anthony Pompliano?

  You think Barron's gonna be president one day?

• 1:13:52Speaker 02

  Who?

• 1:13:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Barron.

• 1:13:53Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:13:55Speaker 02

  I think John Don Jr. Has aspirations of higher office. I think I would watch him. I think Eric, I know Eric pretty well. I don't know Don Jr. Well, hello, but Eric, I think wants to be just do business. I mean, that's what he wants to do. I think his wife wants to do something political. I think Don Jr. Wants to be political. I mean, I could see a ticket of

• 1:14:18Anthony Pompliano?

  JD and Don Jr.

• 1:14:19Speaker 02

  I could see that. I'm gonna, that's my prediction JD, Don Jr. What is that, 2028?

• 1:14:28Speaker 02

  JD and Junior. So that sounds pretty good.

• 1:14:32Anthony Pompliano?

  You should be the campaign manager.

• 1:14:33Speaker 02

  No, they don't want me.

• 1:14:34Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, where do we send people to find the book?

• 1:14:36Speaker 02

  Um, buy it on Amazon. Uh, buy it on, you can get it on every place. It's, it's at your local bookstore. Go woke, go broke, the radicalization of corporate America.

• 1:14:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Just search your name.

• 1:14:48Speaker 02

  Search my name.

• 1:14:50Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Thank you for doing this. We'll do it again. I enjoy talking to you.

• 1:14:52Speaker 02

  I do.

• 1:14:52Anthony Pompliano?

  This is fun.

• 1:14:53Speaker 02

  This is a lot of fun.

• 1:14:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, you come on here. We get a lot of views.

• 1:14:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I love this. This is, and

• 1:14:58Anthony Pompliano?

  We'll keep the seat warm for you.

• 1:14:59Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:15:00Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, thank you.