Jensen’s Ezra Interview, EV News, Nathan Fielder’s Elizabeth Holmes Doc | Diet TBPN

Diet TBPN delivers the best of today’s TBPN episode in 30 minutes. TBPN is a live tech talk show hosted by John Coogan and Jordi Hays, streaming weekdays 11–2 PT on X and YouTube, with each episode posted to podcast platforms right after. Described by The New York Times as “Silicon Valley’s newest obsession,” the show has recently featured Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Mark Cuban, and Satya Nadella. TBPN is made possible by: Ramp - https://ramp.com Public - https://public.com Cisco - https://www.cisco.com Console - https://www.console.com CrowdStrike - https://www.crowdstrike.com Figma - https://www.figma.com MongoDB - https://www.mongodb.com NYSE - https://www.nyse.com Railway - https://railway.com Shopify - https://www.shopify.com/ Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00John Coogan?

  Get ready. TBPM Road to Christmas continues. Ninety-two more days. Get ready. Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang went toe to toe with Ezra Klein on the New York Times podcast, The Ezra Klein Show.

• 0:13Jordi Hays?

  That's actually a crazy environment to go in.

• 0:17John Coogan?

  Why?

• 0:18Jordi Hays?

  As Jensen. I just think he's brave. Ezra is a real journalist.

• 0:21John Coogan?

  He's brave. He engages with a real journalist.

• 0:28Jordi Hays?

  No, it's like, it's like, you know, you have to imagine he was a bit traumatized after Dorkesh.

• 0:34John Coogan?

  Okay, yeah.

• 0:35Jordi Hays?

  Who, who isn't, you know, I don't think of as, as a journalist by any means, but he's obviously has very strong beliefs.

• 0:42John Coogan?

  And, and, yeah.

• 0:43Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 0:44John Coogan?

  And gets to like the root question for a particular audience.

• 0:47Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 0:48John Coogan?

  Now, Dorkesh, although he was going super hard on the, the open source question, on selling chips to China, on sort of AI safety and rollout and like how the model, how the AI should go. Dorkesh is not the person to push, push Jensen on like politics specifically, right? Like that's going to happen somewhere else. But yeah, it is, it is a hot seat, but I think he did well. Two hours almost hanging out with Ezra Klein. There's some clips and I have some reactions and it's sort of interesting to dig into the mind of Jensen because he's simultaneously the biggest force in AI, the central bank of artificial intelligence, according to The Economist. He's the backstop of all backstops. He's backstopping everything from, you know, the biggest data centers in the world lending investment grade designation

• 1:31John Coogan?

  to the debt and the credit lines to like sort of acting as a soft landing for startups that get acquired at the application layer or anywhere in the stack. He's been an acquirer that's sort of underwriting, if you're a VC and you, and you did a deal at a billion dollars.

• 1:46Jordi Hays?

  And you're kind of in trouble on it.

• 1:48John Coogan?

  There's a chance that you could get out because Jensen is willing to do a 10 billion, 15 billion dollar acquisition, whereas like in the prior era, Apple had the money, wouldn't do it. Google really didn't do that many deals that huge. Facebook would do one, big one every five, 10 years, but Jensen's been quick on it. And then he's also been investing directly in basically every lab and basically every AI project. So he's been an incredibly important force and yet he's now starting to stand alone in his sort of P doom equals zero take, which was very much the consensus in the technology community.

• 2:23Jordi Hays?

  Suck would like a word.

• 2:24John Coogan?

  I think, ah, true, true. Yeah. I think it still is the consensus in the business community and the finance community. Basically, anyone at the application layers, P doom zero, anyone deeper in the stack on the semiconductor side or the energy side, the build outside, the Neo cloud side, they're all pretty much P doom zero. But the labs and Jensen's been playing there. He's, he's at that level. He's, he's as important as a voice as, as Dario, Sam, Elon. And so to hear him not jump on the bandwagon when Elon, Sam and Dario all agreed on pacing the frontier, he's saying, no, we don't really need to pace the frontier. It's interesting to hear him say this. There's a, there's a couple clips. Let's play one and then I have sort of an allegory for where I think his position is, but let's play this.

• 3:05Speaker 02

  So what I've been hearing from the labs, what they've been saying publicly is that they are facing a hard problem.

• 3:12John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:13Speaker 02

  Partially an engineering problem, partially an alignment problem, partially an operational excellence problem in Dario Amade's framing. And what they are worried about is that in competition with each other, in national competition with China, that they are being pushed to move too fast, that they all feel they're in a collective action dilemma. Now I watched you on the All In Podcast stage, Donald Trump, President Trump gave you a call there.

• 3:38Speaker 03

  Oh, no.

• 3:39Speaker 04

  This is not planned, but we know who it is.

• 3:41Speaker 03

  Oh, no. Mr. President? Oh, yes, sir.

• 3:48Speaker 02

  And you and the president and the other members of that stage were very resistant to the idea any kind of regulation or collective action was needed.

• 3:58Speaker 05

  And they're just playing right into the hands of a lot of people that don't want to see it happen. And that could be political people, it could also be China. And we're not going to let that happen. It's a, it's a hoax. And

• 4:12John Coogan?

  You're right. Did you come out as pro-regulation?

• 4:14Speaker 02

  What I hear.

• 4:15John Coogan?

  It's illegal to slow down. That's a form of regulation. I think, I think AI regulation is incredibly important. We need accelerationist regulation. Really frustrate everyone. Yeah, it's interesting. Didn't he all, didn't Jensen also do Jolynn Kent on CBS just recently? I saw a clip from that, but very different clips going out. The one from Ezra Klein is talking about maybe we need to shut the labs down, a very, you know, in the weeds hot take about the current thing and the AI debate. I think the clip that I saw from CBS was talking about his leather jackets. Like, I, I imagine that that, that interview will be more substantive when it, when it gets clipped properly, but it's funny that that's the one that made it out. Let's play the other clip from the Midas Project.

• 4:59Speaker 03

  That's the simple answer. If you're, if you're going to build a car, a self-driving car, and let's say it's a robot taxi, and there's a really difficult condition. And it just, as an engineer, we just have no idea how to solve this problem because these cars are not programmed, they're trained. And so we have no idea how to train these cars and we have no idea how to align them to the safety standards that are expected on the road. And so what's the answer? Don't ship it. These products were unreleased. What's that? These products were unreleased. Ah, so now it's comes back to engineering problem again. And so the one is, one, you have to root cause it. Second, you have to, you know, think about what's the, what you could have done, what's the solution for it. And then in the future, you just, you

• 5:42Speaker 03

  know, improve your process so that you could, you could avoid this from happening again. I am fairly certain, I am fairly certain, they will say, yes, they need, they know how to solve this problem. And if that's the case, then that's the problem. It's as simple as engineering. And, and now the alternative is that if they say the alternative, which is there is no way to contain our experiments. There's just no way. When we test our AI models, it will get out and it will damage the world. Then I think the answer is we have to shut the labs down.

• 6:16John Coogan?

  Yeah. I mean, that, that is kind of what happened with self-driving cars, you know, like they do, before they ship them, they do test them on roads and they don't test them on open roads. They test them on closed courses before they move to open roads. They sort of have their own sandboxes, their own, their own environments to test these in. I do wonder if there's a, a sort of a legislation or liability gap between the liability incurred by a self-driving car company who causes property damage from a car running into another car autonomously and an AI agent that hacks and defaces or causes some economic damage. I don't think there will be. I think the courts, if, if there was true economic harm, like

• 7:00John Coogan?

  one model accidentally took down a payment system for an e-commerce website, I think it would be pretty easy to sue that company and say, you caused me to lose this much revenue, you owe me. And the courts would say, sure. And even if the lab argued, hey, we didn't tell it to take down your, your e-commerce system, your, your payment rails, the judge and the courts would say, doesn't matter, even if you expressed a duty of care, like you still have to pay in this, in this scenario. But it is possible that there's a gap there and that's where regulation could fit in. It's interesting. He spent the first like 20 minutes sort of steel manning the, the jobs question and talking about jobs because

• 7:40John Coogan?

  I think that's, I think that's throwing a lot of people off. Like we, we sort of moved past the job apocalypse, SaaS apocalypse narrative, which was predicted from somewhat of the same community into actual apocalypse. And people are like, whoa, like you were wrong about the SaaS apocalypse, like Salesforce is still doing fine, like Slack still exists. And you were wrong about the job apocalypse, like the unemployment rate is like 3% for American white collar workers. You were predicting like 50% or 30%, something like 10% overall. And even, even in the Philippines, I mean, I remember seeing, I think it was Tristan Harris on Monitor Wisdom, like he, he's now sounding the alarm bells about existential

• 8:24John Coogan?

  risk, but he was saying something like, like the Philippines would see like, you know, 90% of their economy go away because they're, they're heavily dependent on call centers. Call centers are actually only like three and a half percent of the Philippines job market. They do in fact make things and have agriculture and all sorts of other, all, all sorts of other economic endeavors going on in the country. But even in the, even in the Philippines, like the unemployment rate is, right now in the Philippines, it's 4.9% in June of 2026. Now it went up to 6% in August, but it still feels like the AI effect is pretty minimal. And most people were predicting that, like the offshore call centers would be affected first. And that one seems like, like maybe we're there, but it's just taking

• 9:07John Coogan?

  so much longer that everyone feels very vindicated in saying like, hey, let's watch that play out first before we move on to the, the X risk discourse potentially. I think that's a lot of what.

• 9:20Jordi Hays?

  Well, now with, with Muse floating the idea of having human in the loop on personal agents, you can imagine those people would be former like

• 9:27John Coogan?

  Oh, they could just move over. Yeah. Yeah, potentially. But yeah, I mean, it's all the same, you know, in the limit, in the exponential, add, add five orders of magnitude, maybe things look very different. But Jensen just rejects that. I mean, he's an, is he an AI as a normal technology guy? I saw, I saw Joe Weisenthal posting about this. He said that he had to, he had to disaggregate, where is it? He posts a lot, so I gotta dig it up. Man, you post a lot.

• 9:57Jordi Hays?

  Okay.

• 9:58John Coogan?

  He said, "The splintering around AI discourse is really a sight to behold." Was in a conversation yesterday with some folks during which it became necessary to distinguish the people who see AI as normal technology from the AI as normal technology people. Because there is a group of people that have rallied around a particular thesis, which is AI as a normal tech, AI as normal technology. And that's different than people that are just like casually into that idea. Because it's actually like a different ecosystem. Anyway, it does feel like Jensen is AI as normal technology. I mean, he's certainly seen plenty of technology revolutions come and go. And he's been in this industry for, what, 30 odd years? I think of the jobs on the job discussion, we were talking to Joe Weisenthal about this

• 10:43John Coogan?

  when he was in the studio. Like, where is the, where is the economic impact of the internet? Like, why can't you see, you know, a kink in the graph of really any economic data when like the internet takes off? It's not like productivity went way up. There's nothing really to grab on to. You actually go back to 1970, if you want to see like the real, the real trends shift. And there are other, you know, trade and globalization moves that have had bigger economic impacts on the internet, which is crazy to think because so much wealth was created, so many companies were created. And it did change the world and like the day to day experience, but it didn't actually show up that much in the economic data. And that's what we're seeing now where jobs are sort of changing, tasks are changing,

• 11:25John Coogan?

  but we're not seeing dramatically different economic statistics like the 10 years at all time highs, or not all time highs, but 19 year highs, you said, five, over 5%. And yet, everyone is sort of a consensus agrees that that's because of the war. Are you rooting for people that are buying the bonds and getting higher yields now?

• 11:45Jordi Hays?

  I guess.

• 11:46John Coogan?

  Okay.

• 11:47Jordi Hays?

  I don't know, sometimes big, a record breaking number.

• 11:49John Coogan?

  It's just exciting to you. Just general, just real golden retriever mind.

• 11:53Jordi Hays?

  You understand the implications and you.

• 11:55John Coogan?

  You don't even think about the implications potentially. You're just cheering for a bigger number. Yeah. It's like now it begins with a five. Great, I like that. It's a higher number. There's an interesting allegory around the effect that technology has on the labor market, at least historically. Now, things might change, but Stephen Covey highlighted this in First Things First, his book on time management. He said, "I attended a seminar once where the instructor was lecturing on time. At one point, he said, 'Okay, it's time for a quiz.'" He reached under the table and pulled out a wide mouthed gallon jar. He set it on the table next to a platter with some fist sized rocks. "How many of these rocks do you think I can get in the jar?" he asked. After everyone made their guesses, he said, "Okay, let's find out." He set one rock in the jar, then another, then another. I don't remember how many he got in, but he got the jar full. Then he asked, "Is that jar full?" Everyone looked at the rocks and said, "Yes."

• 12:40John Coogan?

  Then he said, "Ah." He reached under the table and pulled out a bucket of gravel. He dumped some gravel in and shook the jar and the gravel went in all the little spaces left by the big rocks. Then he grinned and said once more, "Is the jar full?" By this time, people were in on him. They said, "Probably not, there's something else coming." "Good," he said, and he reached under the table and brought out a bucket of sand. He started dumping the sand in and it went in all the little spaces left by the rocks and the gravel. "Once more," he said, "Is the jar full?" "No," everyone roars. He said, "Good." And he grabbed a pitcher of water and began to pour and the water went in between the rocks and the sand and filled up. And somebody said, "Well, there are gaps and if you really work at it, you can always fit more into your life." He said, "No, that's not the point. The point is this, if you hadn't put these big rocks in first, would you have ever gotten any of them in?"

• 13:24John Coogan?

  And so the effect that Jensen's describing is that like, at one point in human history, there were maybe only two jobs, hunting and gathering, something along those lines. Then we invent agriculture, the industrialization. At one point, everyone's farming. Now, very few people are farming, but we still have more food than ever.

• 13:41Jordi Hays?

  There might have been a third job, singing. I can see Tyler while everyone else was hunting and gathering, just kind of jester back thing and just singing for all the hunters and all the gatherers, kind of like providing ambient entertainment.

• 13:54John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 13:55Jordi Hays?

  But anyways.

• 13:56John Coogan?

  But it does feel like that, that was the effect that the internet had. Like, it didn't dramatically reshape the labor force, but like, obviously like lawyers use the internet to communicate. And now like, you see the AI agents thing, it's like every, every little document will go through an AI pass, every little interaction in the economy gets this like small effect, at least right now. And that's what Jensen's like living in. He's like, "I have a real business to run in the real world today." So, he says he's worried about the future. But, or he said, he says he thinks about the future, but really he's clearly very much living in the present.

• 14:31Jordi Hays?

  It's, it's interesting to think about how much like technology driven efficiency gains just get effectively wasted. So, I would imagine today it's faster to like close a venture round post term sheet than it was in like the 90s, right? I think so with the, with the internet and AI and all these different things. But I bet you that it's not as maybe as fast, as efficient as you might think if we can now generate docs on the fly and you can easily go back and forth on red lines.

• 15:03John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 15:03Jordi Hays?

  Right? Like, maybe it went from six weeks to four weeks, but theoretically it could have gone from six weeks down to five days, you know? And I think you're just seeing that even with AI now, people can do their jobs faster. And you've seen some management teams tell their employees, "Hey, I know you're getting a lot more efficiency, that doesn't mean you should just do the same. I want you to do more work in the same amount of time. Don't do the same amount of work with less time, but you're just sort of like wasting a bunch of time."

• 15:32John Coogan?

  Yeah, it seems like no one's really saving time, everyone's just doing more stuff. There is an interesting like, like corollary of that, which is potentially these technologies, they don't necessarily change the growth curve, but they are responsible for the growth. Like, if you don't have the internet speeding up commerce from a week to get an item to two days, that is actually the source of the 2% growth. And without the technology, you have no growth. And so, there is, there is another side of an argument. Of course, there's like population growth and a whole bunch of other things that are affecting economic growth broadly, but there is a, there is a world where, yes, if you, if you're compressing the timeline on everything, you're building the house faster, you're deciding

• 16:13John Coogan?

  to buy the house faster, you're exchanging everything faster as things move quicker, even if you're not doing entirely like net new jobs, just the fact that you're doing them faster, you do more of them, and that's what actually creates the economic growth. I don't know. We'll figure it out, we'll get to the bottom of it tomorrow. Claude Opus 5.5 drew every frame in this animation in JavaScript. They went all in on LLMs, on the big model, on the great model. And now, it can do basically video generation, but do it in JavaScript, do it in Blender, do it in Python, do it in SVG. And you can just hill climb on SVG and people are sharing a bunch of cool demos. And good for launch, people are sick of benchmarks.

• 16:54John Coogan?

  People want to see visual stuff, entertain me, make a song, and yeah.

• 16:59Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, really, really cool style.

• 17:01John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 17:01Jordi Hays?

  I'm already sort of mourning it, just because this is probably going to be everywhere on the internet, like by next week. But for now, a good format, I would, you know, if you see maybe a coworker doom scrolling, send them a custom animation like this, saying, "Hey, stop doom scrolling."

• 17:19John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 17:19Jordi Hays?

  Do some work. You could maybe send this to the, I think the president of Syria.

• 17:25John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 17:25Jordi Hays?

  Who's caught, caught, caught using Instagram reels at the UN. Natty natty, as they say. Anyway, very, very, very, very cool.

• 17:38John Coogan?

  Yeah, Mike Bird says, "Total cultural victory. Man has yet to create an ideology that can compete with short form video based social media scrolling." Ahmed Al Sharah spotted scrolling and sending Instagram reels during UN general assembly with the translator headphone on. He's scrolling. Hey, you know, you gotta keep those, you gotta keep those group chats going. You gotta keep, you gotta keep the content flowing, you don't want to be falling off. He might be sending them to other world leaders. He might be recontextualizing what's happening at the UN with a funny reel. The person might be talking about some peace plan and he might be sharing some hilarious Instagram reel that makes fun of that to let his friends know that he's not buying it, something like that.

• 18:23Jordi Hays?

  He also could be just, his feed could be so dialed into just local political content, he could be mainlining public opinion and trying to understand what's important to voters heading into the next election.

• 18:35John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:36Jordi Hays?

  You know?

• 18:36John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah. There's one more, there's one more Claude post I wanna, I wanna show the gif animated in Python and rendered in Blender. And at this point, you know, I posted that AI video of you and people were asking like, what was the workflow? And I was like, it's, you just ask it to do exactly what you want it to do. And you don't, you actually don't even need to know the word Blender. You can just say-

• 19:00Jordi Hays?

  You can even misspell every word. And it will still-

• 19:03John Coogan?

  No, you just open up the voice mode and I just talk and I'm like, you can even do multiple things now. So I was like, I have this children's story that I made up for my five-year-old. And, and I was like, in one shot, I was like, take this story, turn it into a series of stories, then a series of children's books, go find a place that can print the children's books, illustrate it, turn it into short-form video and also make a video game. And it did it all. It was just like spawning subagents to do it. And you can just do it all in one prompt. And I didn't need to be like, well, I want you to use JavaScript for this and Blender for that. You can just ask for what you want and basically get it from all the models right now. You have an interesting thesis.

• 19:46John Coogan?

  You're, you're blackpilling on the, on the application layer now. You think the models are getting so good that people are just gonna use the AI tools. Does this change anything for you? Because I see this and like, I still feel like, these are, these are great. There's probably a couple of revisions. When I do the prompts, I'm like, I, I still sort of filter and review. I'll usually get like 20 outputs, pick the best one. I actually talked to an AI video founder yesterday who's doing like AI movie production and whatnot. And he was absolutely printing, using all the, all the latest models. The business is doing fantastically. He's hiring four video editors, like a week or day or something.

• 20:27John Coogan?

  Like, he's hiring lots of people because there still is a lot of, it's not even prompt engineering, it's more like processing the output, curatorial work, understanding what is the right thing to fit together. And I think that that mainly comes into picture when you're looking at something that's a bigger project. You wanna go from a one-minute thing that might have some consistency, but when you go to two hours, the consistency becomes much more important. The, the style, the pacing, matching, everything matters more. I don't know. I, I, I think we might be gearing up for another application layer versus, versus model layer debate. We, we saw this with the Harvey discourse. But then all the models got cheaper since that released. And so you'd think-

• 21:09Jordi Hays?

  Better and cheaper.

• 21:10John Coogan?

  -it would pop back up. Yeah, but of course, if the models can do it at a base level, there is a world where every company just has, you know, a relationship with a foundation lab. So, I don't know. We'll see. What else?

• 21:24Jordi Hays?

  EV news.

• 21:25John Coogan?

  EV news.

• 21:26Jordi Hays?

  From, from Dave over on X. He flagged this. We are one week out from the Roadster reveal.

• 21:32John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 21:33Jordi Hays?

  And I'm quite excited.

• 21:34John Coogan?

  Did you listen to the end of the show when we bounced, when you bounced? We went deep on the Roadster. We got a scoop. We got a scoop from our guest who was next to a Tesla employee on a plane and was like pulling facts about him just to go leak it on TVPN. Yeah.

• 21:48Jordi Hays?

  Crazy.

• 21:49John Coogan?

  No, no. I mean, I, I don't know how real this was because the guy could have been messing with them. I don't know. It's, it's all rumor mill stuff. But the guy was basically like, yeah, I was the next to a Tesla employee. And he was saying that the jets are not to make it fly. It's actually for downforce. It's gonna suck it to the ground and it's gonna go zero to 60 in one second. Very cool prediction. Very different from what we were saying. So who had the lowest number?

• 22:09Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, the only thing is it doesn't, it doesn't track with-

• 22:11John Coogan?

  You had the lowest number, so you're closer to win if that's what happened.

• 22:14Jordi Hays?

  Well, it doesn't track with what Elon was saying on Rogan, which is that he was implying it was gonna fly.

• 22:19John Coogan?

  Yeah, it should be able to leave the ground. And that's what I was getting at. It was like, if you can have a fan or a jet that sucks you to the ground for one purpose, you can probably reverse those and boost up at least for a little bit, for a little jump. But we'll see. We're counting it down.

• 22:32Jordi Hays?

  Well, in other EV news-

• 22:33John Coogan?

  Less important, the road to Christmas, road to Roadster, but we're still keeping an eye on it.

• 22:36Jordi Hays?

  Saudi Arabia is aiming to disrupt the auto industry with these radical EVs.

• 22:41John Coogan?

  Your wedges.

• 22:42Jordi Hays?

  They have a brand called CER Exobot. It's coming as a sedan and an SUV. It looks like sort of a futuristic, like Lamborghini offshoot almost.

• 22:55John Coogan?

  Yeah, there's a little bit of Huracan wedge in there, a little Cybertruck in there. Is that a good-

• 23:00Jordi Hays?

  This is Saudi Arabia's first true production car brand. So they're gonna be making these.

• 23:06John Coogan?

  There's such a hard, there's such a hard trade-off between the wedge looks great, but it's a terrible use of space. The, the optimal use of space is like the new Waymo vehicle, which is basically just a box or like a bus, right?

• 23:17Jordi Hays?

  You just care about utility now?

• 23:19John Coogan?

  I'm just saying, it's a trade-off. Like, the more wedgie you get, the less utilitarian the, the vehicle's space is. Of course, you need to have-

• 23:29Jordi Hays?

  This one looks like somebody broke up with the new generation of Prius.

• 23:33John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:34Jordi Hays?

  Now they've leveled up again. Right? That was the, that was the original, like, read on the Prius is like, who hurt you? You know? Because the, the new Prius is looking pretty, pretty stanced, you know?

• 23:45John Coogan?

  Yeah, it is. It is.

• 23:46Jordi Hays?

  It's a level up.

• 23:47John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:48Jordi Hays?

  But this is a level up.

• 23:49John Coogan?

  Is it the Prime? Prius Prime looks pretty good. Yeah, they've done a good job.

• 23:51Jordi Hays?

  Anyways.

• 23:52John Coogan?

  850 horsepower, tri-motor, electric powertrain.

• 23:55Jordi Hays?

  This thing looks insane.

• 23:57John Coogan?

  It does look insane. It, it, I wonder where they'll hit in terms of price. That'll be, that'll be interesting to see. Should we watch the trailer? The official trailer?

• 24:07Jordi Hays?

  Let's do it.

• 24:08John Coogan?

  Where you can see everything. We watched the preview clip. Now we get the full trailer. And I want you to pay attention to the quotes because the reviewers were floored by this movie.

• 24:18Speaker 06

  I feel you did nothing wrong.

• 24:19Speaker 07

  I did not.

• 24:21Speaker 06

  So where did things get lost? Like, how are you where you are right now?

• 24:25Speaker 07

  I, I wish I knew, you know? I, I don't know. I don't, I don't feel like I understand that.

• 24:35Speaker 06

  So I know you guys invited me to, to stay here. Does any part of you worry about me being here 24/7?

• 24:47Speaker 07

  I don't think so.

• 24:49Jordi Hays?

  Okay, so pause. 24/7. He's actually, I think-

• 24:54John Coogan?

  Living there.

• 24:55Jordi Hays?

  Living with Elizabeth Holmes. And it's crazy because only Nathan Fielder would even think to throw out an idea of, hey, would you mind if I moved into your house before you go to prison? And documented the entire process. Because you would think that there would be no circumstances where, where that would be a good idea.

• 25:17John Coogan?

  I think it's just pure upside. There's, there's very little downside to, to doing this. I mean, you're going to prison. Like, worst case, you look worse, but you're in prison either way. Like-

• 25:30Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 25:31John Coogan?

  The only thing you, the only way you can go is up and actually endear some people to you, which is the attempt. We'll see how it lands. Let's keep watching.

• 25:38Speaker 06

  And it makes you look bad.

• 25:40Speaker 07

  I think this is the moment in time to-

• 25:48John Coogan?

  Like no other film I've ever experienced.

• 25:50Speaker 07

  Capture this story before I'm gone.

• 25:53Speaker 06

  I fell in love in that first conversation. Before or after that she revealed she was the founder of Theranos? Probably before. I mean, weren't you worried she was sort of scamming you? 100%. But what did she have to gain for me? Well, isn't your family rich? Yeah, I think that there's like a lot of different levels of wealth.

• 26:15Speaker 07

  Come jump in with me.

• 26:19Speaker 06

  You're asking me to go?

• 26:22Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 26:23John Coogan?

  What is this for? Why are they doing a 3D scan of her?

• 26:30Jordi Hays?

  That's just something Nathan would do. Do you mind if we-

• 26:32John Coogan?

  Do you have a 3D scan of your body? I saw that and I was like, this has nothing to do with Theranos or going to prison? She's not gonna match this. Nothing can prepare you.

• 26:48Speaker 06

  No, you don't.

• 26:50John Coogan?

  I may think about this movie for the rest of my life. That is a crazy quote.

• 27:00Speaker 07

  Be okay with, I'm-

• 27:05John Coogan?

  It feels like there's gonna be some twist or something, something very interesting. But I'm, I'm hooked.

• 27:09Jordi Hays?

  No, I think the, I think the whole thing is gonna make the viewer feel like they're in a really bad acid trip.

• 27:15John Coogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:16Jordi Hays?

  Like, all these scenes.

• 27:18John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:19Jordi Hays?

  The pauses, the silence, the way the lighting, the, the sort of sense of impending, like doom, right? Because she's going to, she's about to go to prison.

• 27:28John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 27:29Jordi Hays?

  The kids, you know, being present in these scenes. Like, the whole thing is just like incredibly-

• 27:34John Coogan?

  But I, I-

• 27:35Jordi Hays?

  Dark and weird.

• 27:36John Coogan?

  I feel like it has to break expectations in some way because the average viewer is gonna sit down and believe that she is guilty and that she lied and is like a sociopath because like that's sort of her brand, right? Is that like, she never admitted any guilt and was guilty in the John Kerry route telling of the story and obviously the court findings. And so for it to be like that, I feel like there has to be some twist or something. I, I would be shocked if it's just like, yep, like she defrauded investors and didn't really build a good blood testing device. And now she's in jail. Like, the end. Like, would that be, would that be-

• 28:15Jordi Hays?

  I don't think it would get those quotes.

• 28:17John Coogan?

  I don't think it would get those quotes. So I feel like, huh, there's gonna be something crazy that happens. Some like complete twist. Like, maybe she's innocent or something. Or, or maybe she's like, I don't know, guilty of something else. I, I, there's just gotta be something else.

• 28:28Jordi Hays?

  The question is, how does the, who's, who's the guy that, that she would, she would call Tiger?

• 28:32John Coogan?

  Oh, yeah. I actually don't know. During the court case, there was a question about his responsibility. Should he bear more of the responsibility? And so, but he doesn't seem to be in the trailer, so I don't know. Because one, one weird like twist would be if you came away being like, that guy's more responsible than I thought, you know? But anyway.

• 28:53Jordi Hays?

  Well, that's it.

• 28:54John Coogan?

  Well, thank you for tuning into TVPN. We'll see you tomorrow. Goodbye.