#2264 - Lenval Logan & Jason Sands

Lenval Logan is a retired U. S. Air Force intelligence analyst and former UAP Task Force member. He is the CEO of Phenom LLC, which develops the Phenom app for reporting UAP and paranormal sightings. Logan appears in James Fox's documentary, "The Program," Dan Farah and Lue Elizondo's "The Age of Disclosure," and season five of The History Channel's "The Proof Is Out There." https://phenom.earth/contact/ Jason Sands is a retired U. S. Air Force veteran and former legacy UAP program member. His latest initiative, the Firsthand Fund, helps UAP share their experiences. Jason was featured in James Fox's documentary, "The Program." https://x.com/JasonTSands This Valentine’s Day good things come in big packages at MeUndies. Score huge sitewide savings at MeUndies.com/ROGAN Don’t miss out on all the action this week at DraftKings! Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using dkng.co/rogan or through my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, (800) 327-5050 or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT) or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD).21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). 1 per new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Min. $5 bet. Max. $200 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets that expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: dkng.co/dk-offer-terms. Ends 2/9/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:13Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Gentlemen, what's happening? Nice to meet you.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  Nice to meet you, Steve.

• 0:17Joe Rogan?

  Uh, both you guys were in, uh, the program, uh, which is, uh, a U- that's why I wore my Braswell shirt. Uh, UFO Disclosure Documentary, uh, all about what's going on behind the scenes. Why don't you tell everybody before we get started, uh, Jay, tell them what your background is, what you do.

• 0:35Speaker 01

  I'm a retired Master Sergeant from the Air Force, worked 22 years, uh, retired 20, uh, 2007. Um, started off as an airframe guy, ended up in intel, and that's when things got strange. Um, had my second duty assignment as a intel guy and got introduced to the program. And that's how I ended up, uh, in the movie, is I had some, uh, strange experiences that, uh, I could talk about that were unclassified. So, I came forward and that's where James found me and, uh, we got along pretty good and everything's a history from there.

• 1:09Joe Rogan?

  And Logan, you were in the documentary as well, so tell everybody what you do.

• 1:12Speaker 02

  So, I am a-

• 1:14Joe Rogan?

  Pull this up to your face.

• 1:15Speaker 02

  I'm sorry.

• 1:16Joe Rogan?

  It's okay.

• 1:17Speaker 02

  So, I'm also a retired Master Sergeant from the Air Force, uh, started off as a B-52 Crew Chief, uh, cross-trained into intel, uh, retired after 21 and 1/2, and I ended up being part of the UAP Task Force, and I was one of the first people to come across Jay here and some other people, and, uh, from that, um, James found out about me and said, "Okay, we need to talk." So, him and Leslie Kean approached me and I was like, "Eh, yeah." But I kinda got outed by Jay Stratton. Everybody was ganging up around me and he, around him and he was like, "Why are you asking me? Logan worked for me." And everybody went, "Frosh, you know."

• 2:02Speaker 02

  And he's like, "Okay, I guess I'm out."

• 2:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy. So, what, let's start with you, Jay. What was your first introduction to this whole concept that we are in possession of alien crafts? Or that we have communicated, or there's been some contact? Like, what was your thoughts about it before you had these experiences?

• 2:26Speaker 01

  I had had a childhood experience with a UFO, previous to that, when I was 10 years old. So, I didn't really get an interest in UFOs at all. I just thought it was strange. It was also a shared experience with my mother.

• 2:39Joe Rogan?

  What was the experience?

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Well, it was just a red orb that came down. It looked like it came from the atmosphere, you know, distance, and then it kept approaching my bedroom window and ended up kinda hovering near the bottom of my street. And I was screaming to my parents, you know, "There's a strange light outside." And nobody responded, so I ran out to get my binoculars, my dad's binoculars, and ran out to the front lawn. Finally, my mom was the only one that responded. And we both got to see it taken off as it came across the rooftop of my friend Eddie's house at the bottom of the street. And that's what she's got to see, my mother and I.

• 3:15Joe Rogan?

  Did it make any noise?

• 3:16Speaker 01

  Zero noise. No, it just looked like a total mirror, completely polished mirror, kind of oblong, kind of a ship or craft.

• 3:27Joe Rogan?

  How big was it?

• 3:28Speaker 01

  It was about 30, 35 foot.

• 3:31Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Maybe even 40 foot. Yeah, it was about the, half the size of my friend's rooftop, if you were to measure it from front to back. So, you know, it was pretty big. It was enough for probably you or I to stand up in it and walk around a little bit.

• 3:45Joe Rogan?

  And your mother has the exact same recollection of the experience?

• 3:49Speaker 01

  Actually, I'm, I'm, I've been asked to write a book, so I've got her writing her part of that. And I'll have the same thing. I've had another couple of experiences that my family members and other friends will probably write up some.

• 4:01Joe Rogan?

  And so this was all when you were young, and so you had this memory in your head when you started working for the government. But when were you introduced to the whole idea that this is a real thing?

• 4:14Speaker 01

  Well, I know I was on mission because I, I just kind of filed away that UFO experience at 10 years old for many years. And I just was kind of even skeptical sometimes about, well, maybe it was just something, you know, an aberration in my, my mind or eyes or something. But anyway, um, so I got really convinced that this was real when I was at Wright-Patt on a mission, when I was in the program. And we intercepted some calls that literally were speaking about, uh, an NHI presence in the program. And they were working in labs.

• 4:46Joe Rogan?

  So Wright-Patt, for everybody, Wright, Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio. And, uh, NHI, non-human intelligence, right?

• 4:54Speaker 01

  That's correct.

• 4:55Joe Rogan?

  And so they were saying, what were they saying? How much can you say? Like, is any of this top secret or is any of this?

• 5:02Speaker 01

  I can pretty much talk you about, about the culture and the presence of the NHI, but I can't talk about like weapon systems and the technology they're developing. That's all gonna have to be national security stuff because we don't want our enemies to know what we got.

• 5:13Joe Rogan?

  Of course. Um, so what was this, this talk of NHI? What did it entail? When you first heard it?

• 5:22Speaker 01

  Well, it was between two people that were, uh, talking about the day's interview with this NHI that they had, they called an Eben.

• 5:29Joe Rogan?

  They had an interview?

• 5:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, he had had an interview with them and he was relaying what was talked about in that interview to another individual. Uh, probably his boss or somebody that is gonna, you know, pass it on to the rest of the folks in the group or whatever.

• 5:42Joe Rogan?

  Did you see, see this written down?

• 5:44Speaker 01

  I did not, I had it recorded just like you would with anything else that's, you know, it's recorded in such a way that it can stand legal forensic kind of analysis. That's the level of stuff that you have to do with an intel guy is you have to be really specific about what you're recording and make sure it's accurate. Even whether you believe it or not, what's going on, you have to be able to transcribe that word for word, the way it goes.

• 6:07Joe Rogan?

  So you heard the recording? That's how you found out about this non-human intelligence thing?

• 6:12Speaker 01

  Well, it was an active phone call. That's what I did on the red team that I was on for the program. Because I was monitoring for the air force. And in this case, I'm monitoring for the program.

• 6:23Joe Rogan?

  Can you say how the conversation went? Like, how did someone bring up non-human intelligence? What was like, was there any discussion before this non-human intelligence of UFOs at all, or aliens at all?

• 6:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, there was quite a few times. We had a scientist on the team, he was an officer, he was a nuclear scientist, and he was able to give us some insights and stuff like that. Because we'd have some really strange things like, things that were turning at 90 degrees, and how do you not break that piece of machinery, or not kill the occupants? And we were hearing stuff like that. And they had like, very technical parameters that I can't, cannot discuss. But we're talking about these, and we'd get the scientist to come and talk to us, and he'd say, "Oh yeah, that's this, this, and this."

• 7:08Joe Rogan?

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• 8:35Speaker 01

  That was just like the two of them, when I picked up the call and started the recording on it, there was some guy that was there at Wright-Patt and apparently he had been talking to this even. And he said, "Yeah, up today's session, we've got some more information you need to hear about. This is what is going to happen." You know, he says that there's going to be another meeting and that if we don't return the equipment and the prisoners, there's going to be some bad things happen.

• 9:03Joe Rogan?

  We have prisoners?

• 9:04Speaker 01

  Yes. This is what they said on the phone call. And the other guy's like, "Well, hey, what if we can't get them, you know, to return all the equipment and the people?" And the guy that had given the interview, he's like, "You don't want to do that." And the guy's like, "Well, why?" He said, "If you don't, they're going to be put to death." And I was like, I literally stepped back for a minute and I was like, "What's going on here?" So I had to finish out the call. They talked about sundry other things, just stupid stuff.

• 9:34Joe Rogan?

  Can you be a little bit more clear, like, who's going to be put to death?

• 9:37Speaker 01

  The program folks that are responsible for keeping the tech that's not theirs and also, you know, doing things to these extraterrestrials.

• 9:46Joe Rogan?

  How did they allegedly acquire this tech?

• 9:49Speaker 01

  Retrievals.

• 9:50Joe Rogan?

  Retrievals?

• 9:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, when I was first introduced into the program, one of the very first things they asked me was, "Do you want to be part of the retrieval program?" And I said, "Well, tell me about it." And when they said the things they said, I was like, "No. Number one, it sounds gross. Number two, you probably can't give me enough PPE gear and hazmat gear to make me feel safe around these things. And no, I'm not interested in that. Thank you very much."

• 10:11Joe Rogan?

  So how do they describe it that freaked you out that much? They're talking about biological entities that are retrieved along with the crash?

• 10:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:18Joe Rogan?

  Why do they crash if they're so fucking smart? That's always the big question, right?

• 10:22Speaker 01

  Well, I think the new guy on the block, Jake Barber, he's describing some of the ways that you can do this scionically against a scionic team. He's going to start showing some of that to the world, that some of this is, some of these craft are manned and piloted by consciousness. And apparently, they have a scionics team that can actually get in the headspace of these craft and cause them to land. So it's not really a forced landing, it's just kind of a mutual thing.

• 10:49Joe Rogan?

  So, wait a minute, the United States government has the ability to contact or interact with these craft and force them to land?

• 10:58Speaker 01

  Yes. And then there's other ones that are done kinetically, which is more the scary side of it and the ugly side of the program is that what you've got here is, it's not so much the military doing this, but the corporate people like Lockheed, you know, Northrop and all these other companies, they treat this stuff as very high-value target kind of stuff, and it's very valuable for them to get the retrievals. So you've got really what amounts to a bunch of treasure hunters that are hired with mercenaries involved as well, that go out for these retrievals. And that's where Jake Barber comes in, is that he sees some of these people that are hired to come out and retrieve this stuff, and he's done that.

• 11:34Joe Rogan?

  So the idea would be that the retrievals would be very valuable because you could back-engineer the tech, figure out how it works, make weapon systems, make superior crafts.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 11:44Joe Rogan?

  How long has this supposedly been going on for?

• 11:46Speaker 01

  Decades. It's been going on for a very long time.

• 11:48Joe Rogan?

  And but, okay, so the tech-

• 11:51Speaker 01

  Even before I was born.

• 11:52Joe Rogan?

  But if the tech that we have now that allows us to tell them to land didn't exist before, why did they crash before? Like, what is Roswell?

• 12:01Speaker 01

  Well, Roswell, the most accurate account is the one where the microwave radar waveform upset the onboard avionics inside these craft that these NHI were flying on that day in Roswell.

• 12:20Joe Rogan?

  But it's just, radar's just a detection signal, right?

• 12:23Speaker 01

  Right. But if you look at some of the stuff like Gary Nolan said about how, you know, even at the very molecular level, these things are organized very minutely. So you can imagine what, even a flow of electricity, if it affects it wrong, or is it the right wavelength, it does break down the electrical current and the electromagnetic or whatever drive that they might have. And that seems to be what happened at Roswell, is that they actually accidentally went in-

• 12:51Speaker 01

  Um, and we're just sweeping like a radar and it caused this craft to crash.

• 12:56Joe Rogan?

  What a shit design. You know what I'm saying? Like, imagine, imagine like if you bought a Tesla and the wheels fly off when it rains out. You'd be like, what the fuck? You guys have this like super advanced vehicle that you can come here from another planet? And radar makes you crash? That's, that kind of stuff makes people incredulous, right?

• 13:16Speaker 01

  It does.

• 13:16Speaker 02

  I'd like to add something here. Someone gave me an analogy to say, think of it as. There's a type of metal that is totally non-magnetic. But as soon as you put a current through it, it becomes magnetic, alright? And he said, imagine this, you're in Roswell, you're cruising along, you're checking out, everybody doing their thing. And then, because remember, that night, there was a huge electrical storm. That's one of the big things they keep talking about. If one of those things gets hit, and all of a sudden, they slam together because now they're magnetic. And then they bounce off, and that's why you had one that landed in Roswell area and the one that landed somewhere else.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, there were two.

• 13:56Speaker 02

  So, that was what someone told me. Now, I've never been able to figure out if that's the actual truth. But, the two most likely possibilities is that one and what Jay just said.

• 14:09Speaker 01

  There's actually another person that was approached by, you know, the same race of NHI.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  And this guy says that they actually recounted what happened, is that they thought they were attacked by a directed energy weapon. And then they quickly found out that, no, this was just accidental, and that this was some sort of a, a radar system that just caused their, their onboard computer to go haywire for just that second enough to cause the crash to happen.

• 14:34Joe Rogan?

  It almost doesn't make sense to me, because like, like if you're gonna go visit an uncontacted tribe in the Amazon, you would assume that they have weapons. You'd assume they have bows and arrows. And if you got hit with an arrow, you'd be like, this is crazy. You know, I can't believe I got shot by an arrow. But you wouldn't be surprised if they have arrows. Like, you would probably write, hey man, we should be real careful that they might have arrows, they might shoot us. So if you're visiting the human race, and you're so advanced that in 1947- You can come here from wherever, another planet, another dimension, whatever you're doing. Wouldn't you know about radar and wouldn't you have like a system to prepare yourself for storms?

• 15:11Speaker 01

  Yes, and that's something that might have taken them by surprise because you're talking about nineteen fifty's radars were not all that uh new, but they weren't all that old either.

• 15:19Joe Rogan?

  When was radar invented, do you know?

• 15:21Speaker 02

  It was World War Two, if I remember correctly.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was World War Two, so it was right around the nineteen fifty's, right up.

• 15:25Joe Rogan?

  Right around the same time.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  Right, so it may have been unexpected technology for them and maybe they they just didn't have their their countermeasures up or something.

• 15:34Speaker 02

  And there could have been some type of arrogance there because think about it, if we, based on our understanding, we believe that they've been coming here for thousands of years. Nothing's ever happened and then all of a sudden.

• 15:43Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, all of a sudden this new technology and it causes their ship to crash.

• 15:48Speaker 01

  So you have to think about the timeframe of when this radar stuff was actually being, and besides that, they do not always. I I intercepted a different call that states that they do have a periodicity between when they come and go. They're not always here or they're out doing other things, I guess, and uh.

• 16:04Joe Rogan?

  I treat this like a a segment on the Arsenio Hall Show. Things that make you go hmm, I'm not sure. It just seems dumb. It just seems dumb that radar could take them out. But one of the things about the Virginia crash, which is another James Fox documentary, which is excellent. Which is all about the crash in Brazil, which is like heavily documented, including the guy who handled the body wind up dying of some unknown bacterial illness. That they have no idea what it was. It was a young, healthy guy. He carried this, supposedly carried this being. Put it in his patrol car, took it to a hospital. They wouldn't accept it, had to take it to another hospital.

• 16:43Joe Rogan?

  And then two weeks later, this guy's dead and he just, he got unbelievably sick. There's nothing they could do to help him. They flooded him with antibiotics, all kinds of different things. There was nothing worked. He died very quickly. When you uh you hear about that story, the big thing was that it there was some sort of like crazy electrical storms that night.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:03Joe Rogan?

  But again, if you're gonna have a Tesla, you would assume the wheels won't fly off when it rains. You're gonna come here from another planet, like what's on that planet? Oh, well, they occasionally have lightning. Well, let's not fuck around if they have lightning. Let's not go into the storm. If you're in a plane, you can go above the storm. You know how like your pilot says, we're gonna take this plane above forty five thousand feet or you know, to let you know, and then you look down, you can see lightning below you in the clouds. It's kind of crazy.

• 17:26Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 17:26Joe Rogan?

  How come they can't do that?

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Um, you got me. I was born in sixty-three. This has happened, happened earlier than I even got there. I'm just trying to go off of what I heard on.

• 17:35Joe Rogan?

  I understand. I mean, I'm just, I just, I'm just, you know, playing devil's advocate or.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  And I agree. I, I kind of had the same thoughts, but at the same time, you know, we've made similar stupid decisions when it comes to battles and.

• 17:48Joe Rogan?

  I know, but I would just assume they're way better than us. Right? I would assume they, like you were talking about arrogance. I would assume they don't have that anymore. Like.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  No, it's not.

• 17:57Joe Rogan?

  Fucking work that out of the system. We should work it out of the system.

• 18:00Speaker 01

  Well, I think that, that's true to an extent, but I think also they're very common. They have things in common with us as well that they do have, you know, uh, the same sorts of, you know, desires to, to, to want to live their life well and all these other things are part of it. So, yeah.

• 18:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, it seems like if you want to go and do something, anything, like you want to explore the universe, you want to accomplish things, you want to make technology. It almost seems like some kind of self-acknowledgement or some kind of ego has to be present.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 18:29Joe Rogan?

  Like otherwise, there's no motivation to do anything. Like this was the question about artificial intelligence. We were talking about this and I said, but if artificial intelligence doesn't have any human needs. It doesn't have any, it doesn't have the desire to spread its DNA, it doesn't have the desire to achieve status.

• 18:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 18:44Joe Rogan?

  Why would it do anything? Why wouldn't it just sit there and just observe and just watch us be stupid? And maybe it would say logically, it would interfere if we were about to blow each other up or something crazy like that. But other than that, why would it do anything? Why would it have any desire to take over?

• 19:00Speaker 01

  Well, look at us. And, and this is where I think there's a commonality between us and the N H I. Um, we're intelligent, uh, intelligent people.

• 19:07Joe Rogan?

  Some of us.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Some of us, yes. And then.

• 19:12Joe Rogan?

  Go on TikTok.

• 19:15Joe Rogan?

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• 21:36Speaker 01

  I've seen that stupidity. You're right.

• 21:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  So, okay, take back what I said. But actually, though, they...

• 21:42Joe Rogan?

  No, obviously, we're intelligent. I'm joking.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  But they probably have a desire for entertainment, which we do have a great, you know...

• 21:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, we're very entertaining.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  We love that, yeah. And they probably have a curiosity as well.

• 21:53Joe Rogan?

  They have to, right? If they're exploring, why else would they explore? So it's whatever it is that made us us, you know, from ancient primates to what we are today. A big part of that is all these needs and desires. And you gotta wonder, like, at some point in time, does that get engineered out of the biological system? And if it does, that system seems like it wouldn't need to just explore at all. Unless it's facilitating a process, unless it's, there's a very delicate process where advanced life forms like ourselves are experiencing this new technology. And a lot of the people that are in possession of the technology aren't even the ones who created it.

• 22:36Joe Rogan?

  So they have all this insane responsibility, but they've done none of the work and they have power over this technology, which is where we find ourself today. Which is real weird. Imagine that's a process that all intelligent life goes through as it's evolving all throughout the universe. Maybe they know this. Maybe they, maybe it's a precarious thing and maybe it has to be monitored because like, oh, you know, star 15, remember that third planet? You know, they fucking whacked the whole planet. They got there too late. And then realize, oh, that took like four billion years to make intelligent life that could figure out cell phones. And these dipshits blew each other up.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:11Joe Rogan?

  And now there's nothing but, you know, microbes and it's gonna take billions of years and it might not even work because they might be too far from the sun by then and...

• 23:17Speaker 01

  Not for another test case.

• 23:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so let's, uh, let's prevent these territorial primates from killing each other. And just, maybe that's a thing that they do throughout the universe, like farmers. Like, you know, make sure the wolves don't eat the calves. You know, just like protect it until it gets to this next stage.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  And I have to say that on mission that I did get that feeling that no matter where the NHI were mentioned, it was not a copacetic, free-for-all exchange of technologies at all. It was very controlled by the NHI. Uh, if there was a lab environment, the NHI demanded that no human be in the, in the lab while they're there or, or watch what they're doing and record what they're doing. Um, and then they would leave and then the humans could come in. So it's very precarious little game they're playing.

• 24:03Joe Rogan?

  So how long have they supposedly been having these interactions with NHI's?

• 24:07Speaker 01

  I'd say since...

• 24:08Joe Rogan?

  I don't like calling them NHI's. I like calling them aliens.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  For me, again, I wasn't... Yeah, I like just calling them aliens or whatever. But, um, yeah, I think it happened in the eyes nowadays, you know, that that's when it really started to come because that's when they were saying that the, this UFO came to Holloman and landed and actually talked to the president at the time and all that stuff.

• 24:29Joe Rogan?

  Imagine a UFO talking to Trump.

• 24:32Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:34Joe Rogan?

  He'd probably try to tax them.

• 24:37Speaker 02

  So, my, my biggest question, anytime someone brings up NHI aliens, my first thing is, which one?

• 24:44Joe Rogan?

  Which one?

• 24:44Speaker 02

  Because they, they talk about it as if it's one entity. Oh, they did that. Oh, they did this. But when you break it down, we're hearing some like us and want us to evolve. Some don't like us and want us to kind of.

• 24:58Joe Rogan?

  Pull back.

• 24:58Speaker 02

  Pull back. And they want to control certain things. So I'm like, well, which one? And then they, they look at me with that deer in the headlights look like, oh, um, I, I don't know.

• 25:08Joe Rogan?

  Right. So there's the idea that our superiors, that the, the military, the top levels of government, they, even they are not given all the information.

• 25:17Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 25:18Joe Rogan?

  Because probably we're like a bunch of childrens, you know, we're like, you're too stupid to figure this out. I'm not going to tell you what a nuclear bomb is. Just duck and cover.

• 25:28Speaker 02

  However, we could be the greatest show in this part of the universe.

• 25:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, sure. We're a great show.

• 25:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, imagine when we, when we talk about the, you know, the things with the nuclear bombs where the, the missile silos, they, you know, started counting down or whatever.

• 25:42Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 25:42Speaker 02

  Maybe it's like, hey, hmm, let's see how far they'll go if we do this.

• 25:47Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 25:47Speaker 02

  And then everybody gets all excited. And then I was like, ah, okay, we're just kidding. We'll turn it off and go from there.

• 25:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, perhaps. I mean, listen, we run experiments all the time on animals. All the time. And we have collars on bears. We set them loose. Like, let's follow the bear. Where's he going? We do that all the time. We do that with all kinds of species.

• 26:06Speaker 01

  We do.

• 26:06Joe Rogan?

  It only makes sense that they would do it with us, especially so, since we're, we literally have the ability to annihilate all life on earth. And we're pointing at each other.

• 26:16Speaker 02

  Multiple times.

• 26:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, mad, mad world.

• 26:18Joe Rogan?

  It's a mad, mad world. That, I had that argument with Neil deGrasse Tyson. He was like, why would they be interested in us? I'm like, what are you talking? We go to the jungle to study a frog. You know, like, of course they would come here. We're, we're so strange.

• 26:31Speaker 02

  And we protect the turtles in that one little area that EPA says, oh, no, you, you can't mess with those turtles.

• 26:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. Imagine Elon gets to Mars and we do find life there and we'd be so interested to figure out how it works, what makes it tick.

• 26:44Joe Rogan?

  You know, they believe they found actual water on Mars, not frozen water now?

• 26:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, on the poles. Yeah, I heard about that.

• 26:49Joe Rogan?

  That's nuts.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:51Joe Rogan?

  Cause if there's actual water in there and they can find something in that water that's alive.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  But if we don't, if we're going to expand out into the universe, which is what Elon Musk says. The fact that we don't have to bring water with us.

• 27:03Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 27:04Speaker 02

  That's huge.

• 27:04Joe Rogan?

  Bro, I ain't drinking Mars water. I don't drink tap water and I definitely ain't drinking Mars water.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  It could be better than Red Bull.

• 27:10Joe Rogan?

  Imagine, bro, imagine if it's like filled with crazy minerals and you drink a glass of Mars water and you just feel incredible and then we have to ship Mars water from Mars back to LA.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  That's a war right there. That's a war right there. People are gonna be like, how come they have it, we don't?

• 27:25Joe Rogan?

  Right, there'll be water wars. What if Mars water just makes you go back in time? Like, you look 20 again.

• 27:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:32Joe Rogan?

  You know, I mean, who knows what the fuck's in that water?

• 27:34Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't know, but th- those are the kind of things you write though, that that's kind of how we are. It's that we're very curious about what's on that planet. And how we can utilize the resources that are there, like the water and everything else. And we're gonna learn some stuff and it's gonna take a long time.

• 27:48Joe Rogan?

  What I'm really curious about is what was Mars like before it lost its atmosphere?

• 27:53Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 27:53Joe Rogan?

  And was there a time a few billion years ago where Mars was like Earth? You know?

• 27:58Speaker 01

  It seems to be what people are saying.

• 27:59Joe Rogan?

  That's, that's the craziest of all theories, right? And the most interesting, but i- if, you know, Earth still exists five billion years from now and now it's cold and dead and there's nothing, how much would be left? How much is left after a couple of billion years? You know, I mean, what is really left over? What does it look like? Does it look like Mars? Cause Mars looks completely desolate, but we know that Mars had water and we know Mars had a warmer climate. So you kind of just assume there was something growing there.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 28:31Joe Rogan?

  What, what does it look like a couple of billion years later? Probably like Mars.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:36Joe Rogan?

  Which is cra- if we do find out that Mars at one point in time housed biological life, or maybe there's microbial life or something like that, that still exists on Mars, just the climate is so harsh it can't advance past that stage. That, that alone would just change our whole view of the, the universe itself, cause then we would start to consider, okay, maybe this isn't just this one thing that happened. Maybe the Fermi paradox is just that we don't have the ability to detect all these things that are out there.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, we don't know.

• 29:04Speaker 02

  Or maybe they really do pass by and keep their doors closed.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  Canlocks.

• 29:08Joe Rogan?

  Right, we're fucking shooting fireworks in 4th of July, we're nuts.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:12Joe Rogan?

  We're the craziest species on this planet, by far. Everything else is normal, everything else just kills what it wants to eat. Everything else, you know, does normal stuff. It's, they fight over resources, but that kinda makes sense biologically.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  Honestly, after my experience in the program, I've found that it seems, the more I think about it, the more that they are very much like us in a lot of ways, but they have probably a world government that we do not have. In other words, they can get along in their own society much better than we can, and their former government is not all broken up.

• 29:44Joe Rogan?

  I think if you branch out into the solar system and then into the galaxy, like if, as you start spreading out, if you do become some sort of an interstellar species, you kinda have to be united as a planet, right? You gotta go, look, all this bullshit about the, this country and that country, let's let it go. Let's let it go. I mean, I don't want one world government because I don't trust the government, but if I did trust the government, I'd be like, one world government is the way to go. Everybody should have the same resources, everybody should have the same access to healthy food and water and clean air, like, it should be the same for everybody. It shouldn't be that you can make an iPhone in China because they can make it for 15 cents because the people are working like slaves.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 30:23Joe Rogan?

  It shouldn't be like that, it should be like the whole world has the same rules. But the problem is you can't trust the government. So what do you do? Well, if you get to a point where everybody's so advanced that we don't have all of the same greed and lust and all the bullshit that ruins human society, if, if aliens get to that point, then it only makes sense that they would operate as a planet. But then they would have like their interest in, ahead of these fuckers on that other planet.

• 30:50Speaker 02

  So, along those lines, it's, those things that you talked about, those are the things that inherently make us human.

• 30:57Joe Rogan?

  Push that microphone a little closer to you.

• 30:57Speaker 02

  I'm sorry.

• 30:58Joe Rogan?

  The, the hand moves, you can push, if you wanna sit back.

• 31:00Speaker 02

  Those are the things that inherently make us human, so the question would be... Depending on which animal you're thinking about.

• 31:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 31:08Speaker 02

  What inherently makes them them? And how compatible are we in what we're looking at? Because those could be some of the things that attract them to us or detract them away from us.

• 31:17Joe Rogan?

  What I'm interested in is, are there things just like us? Is this like, if you, you know, like, there's similar plants that exist in similar ecosystems all over the world where ideally the seeds have never been able to get back and forth. But they're similar, at least in some ways. It's just a matter of climate, resources, these plants, over millions and millions of years, these same kind of plants grow. Similar kind of animals. There's rats all over the place.

• 31:47Speaker 01

  There's a pattern to it.

• 31:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's a pattern.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  At atomic level, there's a way that things occur naturally and they form different things. So a bird, I agree. I think, when I talked about it the first time we spoke on the phone, is that, yeah, there probably is a bird, kind of looks like a bird on another part of the universe, but maybe it has, you know, two sets of wings.

• 32:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 32:07Speaker 01

  Or two heads or something. I don't know, just because.

• 32:10Joe Rogan?

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• 32:56Joe Rogan?

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• 32:57Speaker 03

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• 33:28Speaker 02

  Something similar, like, I mean, the birds vary so wide. I mean, you can get a sparrow, you can get a fucking eagle or a condor.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:34Speaker 02

  There's so many different kinds of birds, too. But I wonder, is there, is this the only kind of way life evolves? Or are there planets that are just radically different that are a planet? And life forms in a completely different way?

• 33:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would think that that's true also, is that there's exceptions to the rule, just like there are here on Earth.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  That you've got some really strange creatures that roam around, like, people are starting to say octopus, octopi and, and stuff. They don't fit the, the, the normal way that things evolve around.

• 34:02Speaker 02

  Right.

• 34:03Speaker 01

  The Earth and stuff like that.

• 34:04Speaker 02

  And there's no bones there, so, you know, you're not gonna find any fossils anywhere.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:09Speaker 02

  But if you think about some of the things that we're being told now, ninety-nine percent of all life that lived before is all gone now.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 34:19Speaker 02

  So if this is what's left, maybe some of those unique things that were out there, there's something similar. Because one of the things that I ponder is, there's got to be some grand design. Because when we see these aliens, when they, whether they talk about, it's a gray, it's a Nordic, it's a draconian, or if it's a mantis, they're all standing upright. You know? So is that a part of the grand design that as, as intelligent as you get, further up the food chain, you start to stand on your, your two legs and whatever? And then I think about, if it's a mantis, whatever, how did they build their ships if they don't really have opposable thumbs and, you know?

• 34:58Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 34:59Speaker 02

  Those are the things that we're, we're always taught. These are the things that make us unique as humans, and we can build things, and that's why the other animals didn't, you know, the only other animal out there is, what, the chimpanzee or the gorilla or something, primates? But, obviously, nature finds a way. And it's not human nature, it's something other type of nature, and they do something else.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  Well, it could be genetic engineering, too. It could be that they- Yeah, I was gonna mention that.

• 35:25Joe Rogan?

  They reach some point where they say, well, what's the best structure for a body? A mantis structure way better than a person's structure. We break so easy. Mantas are insanely strong. You ever see a mantis catch a hummingbird at a feeder?

• 35:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 35:39Joe Rogan?

  It's nuts, man.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, taking out tarantulas and scorpions.

• 35:42Joe Rogan?

  They're so little and they just snatch that fucker up and he can't move. And like if you looked at them like the hummingbird is probably four times heavier at least, probably more than that. And he's just like, gotcha. It's like that design, the exoskeleton design is superior in terms of like durability. And also lobsters and crabs and all these kind of insects like that. Do mantis regrow limbs?

• 36:09Joe Rogan?

  Let's find that out.

• 36:10Speaker 02

  All I know is that.

• 36:11Joe Rogan?

  Like crabs do.

• 36:12Speaker 01

  I know crabs can.

• 36:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, lobsters and crabs, all I think of them is just armored spiders.

• 36:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're bugs, I mean.

• 36:19Speaker 02

  And if you think about when they said that the oxygen level was at thirty, thirty-five percent and some other stuff. They're saying some of these spiders were the size of small dogs. I'm like, yeah, that's not a place I'd like to live.

• 36:29Joe Rogan?

  So they can. Said praying mantis undergo incomplete metamorphosis. Sometimes if their cage is too dry, a mantis may have trouble shedding old skin, will lose a limb in the process of molting. If it happens, it's possible for a mantis to regrow the lost limb, but only when they molt again.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 36:44Joe Rogan?

  So they molt again and then they regrow that limb, but they do regrow their limbs. They regenerate limbs as long as there's at least a coax remaining, whatever that is.

• 36:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:51Joe Rogan?

  It won't regenerate right away and maybe a tiny nub and then it, and then they molt, I guess.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  Wow. That makes sense because the harder shell would prevent that limb from continuing to grow, yeah.

• 37:01Joe Rogan?

  But it just seems like that's a superior form of a structure. So if you get to the point where technology is all done with the mind, right? We've developed artificial intelligence and quantum computing and the being has been generated over genetic engineering to the point where it no longer has to have sex to recreate new versions of itself. And so instead, the way they procreate is they, they do it through design. And maybe they say, look, it doesn't matter what you look like anymore. No one's fucking. Let's all become mantises.

• 37:38Speaker 02

  That's a good point.

• 37:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 37:40Speaker 02

  That's like, that's a good point.

• 37:40Speaker 01

  Okay, I need a reset now.

• 37:41Joe Rogan?

  This soft shit on the outside, like, we're built, we're like fucking water balloons. We're so vulnerable.

• 37:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:47Joe Rogan?

  You'd better be, wouldn't it be better if you're hard on the outside? And, you know, we don't need to, like, use your fingers and thumbs anymore. We do everything with our mind.

• 37:53Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 37:54Joe Rogan?

  I mean, if it gets to the point, like, this was the thing that I've heard about people that have supposedly worked on crafts is that one of the most remarkable things is that there's no, there's no gears, there's no levers to turn, there's no buttons, there's no controls.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 38:11Joe Rogan?

  That everything is done somehow or another where the being and the craft are one.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:17Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  Consciously, yeah. I've had discussions about that with.

• 38:20Joe Rogan?

  Have you talked to anybody that has said that any of the, the crafts have controls in them?

• 38:26Speaker 02

  No, all I've heard.

• 38:27Speaker 01

  Basic, yes.

• 38:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:28Joe Rogan?

  Basic controls?

• 38:29Speaker 01

  While I was talking to Jack Sefati about it, there was a, a craft that did have some place where the, the hands were in there, but it was only to, uh, sort of, uh, do some minor adjustments for the craft is what he, he, he was describing and other people have described, you know.

• 38:48Speaker 02

  This is what I was gonna say, there's just, all I've heard is that there's been two places for you to put your hands and maybe for other parts of the crew, but that's about it. There's no.

• 38:56Joe Rogan?

  Maybe that's so you don't use your phone. So you don't get distracted, just use your hands. Put your hands down on the thing, okay.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  So there's no botnology.

• 39:03Speaker 01

  Who knows, maybe that is part of it.

• 39:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 39:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:05Joe Rogan?

  Maybe they have something similar to, like, cellphone addiction.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:09Joe Rogan?

  So they put, so they're putting their hands on the thing, wasn't that what Lazar said as well? Didn't he say there was something similar to that?

• 39:15Speaker 02

  Yes, he did.

• 39:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so no controls, um, and somehow or another putting your hand on it syncs you up and then they're just using their mind.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  Correct. Yep.

• 39:26Joe Rogan?

  Did they try to explain how this was developed?

• 39:30Speaker 01

  Um, there's a lot of people that are looking into it now and they're starting to see that yes, it's possible. Um, and I think that's again, some of the new whistleblowers can shed some more light on to how this happens. And I think we need to hear a little bit more about these folks that came forward about the psionics team and what exactly is this meditation? What are they linking up with? Is it, does it feel mechanical? Does it feel like an entity?

• 39:52Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:52Speaker 01

  Cause you know, we hear Jake talk about his, his experiences. He had a really spiritual experience with one of these things. While he was carrying it to the next place, he's, he was literally crying in the interview.

• 40:04Joe Rogan?

  This is that egg looking thing?

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. He said that he felt, well, it was, he called it the eight-gone, I think, craft. That one is the one he had a spiritual-

• 40:11Joe Rogan?

  Eight-gone?

• 40:12Speaker 01

  Eight-gone, like a hexagon, but it has eight sides, but, or octagon, I think would be the, the actual term. But he said it had like a eight-sided kind of a disc.

• 40:23Joe Rogan?

  So this is not the thing we're talking about?

• 40:25Speaker 01

  Not the egg one. This is a different one.

• 40:26Joe Rogan?

  A different one?

• 40:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:27Joe Rogan?

  So he encountered a different one?

• 40:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:29Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:30Joe Rogan?

  I didn't, I didn't see that interview.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, the detailed one, I think you can pull that one out of there. But he mentioned that that one, he had like a real, no kidding, it was beautiful and he cried about it because it was so beautiful of an experience.

• 40:43Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 40:44Speaker 02

  And I, I have a question about all those things because if they can get into our minds, my thing is that how do you know that that's not what they're putting into your head? Cause like what they experienced at a skinwalker ranch when they saw the, the creature at the, on the top floor, they, um, they said as they approached it, they started feeling fear. And as they approached it further, the fear just kept intensifying to the point where it was like a physical change in the temperature. So if someone can put fear into you, why can't they put love into you and all these different things? And I'm not saying that it's not genuine, but-

• 41:23Speaker 01

  Part of being on the task force, you had to question everything.

• 41:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, we can do that to each other.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, yes.

• 41:29Joe Rogan?

  You know, we can do that to each other through threats. We can put fear into people. We can do the... You know, there's a crazy documentary called Holy Hell, and it's about this guy who was a cult leader. And one of the things that he would do to these people, he was a hypnotist too. But one of the things he would do to these people, he called it the knowing. And he would put his hands on them and they would say that they would experience God. They had to be prepared for it. It was a thing that was very difficult to get. He had to approve you for it, and all these people wanted it and they never got it. It was like a thing he held over your head. And then when he actually did it, even though this guy turned out to be a complete fraud and the cult disbanded, all those people talk about that moment when they had that experience with that guy and they say it really happened. Wow.

• 42:12Joe Rogan?

  Because the human mind is weird, right? And if a person can do that to you by touching you, it just makes sense that some like super advanced being would say like, what is the best feeling that I could give to this primitive entity that's studying me to let me know like, don't blow me up, don't fuck with me.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  100%.

• 42:33Joe Rogan?

  And this is the best expression that you can have in life. What is the best expression you have in life is love. Pure love. Just pure, just, just untethered love.

• 42:45Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 42:46Joe Rogan?

  It would make sense. It would like put that in you so that you would protect this thing.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. And that may be part of it, and I think that's what their desire is. Just like we, you know, would try to put our best foot forward if we knew that we were similarly being scrutinized.

• 42:59Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 43:00Speaker 01

  You know, we'd want to, we want to do that.

• 43:01Joe Rogan?

  When we visit uncontacted tribes, we give them free food.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, but...

• 43:04Joe Rogan?

  We just say, "We're here for you guys."

• 43:05Speaker 01

  But see, that's where my fear is. That's why I came forward is that I was hearing stuff that actually brought concern, that, you know, in the way I kind of...

• 43:17Speaker 01

  Package that up is that the military happens to be unfortunately the face of humankind here in this situation when it comes to the program because it's definitely not the public. We're just, you know, errantly having people come forward with I got abducted or I saw this and I saw that. But in the military, that seems to be where there is an interface going on.

• 43:36Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  And I'm just wondering, is that too heavy handed because they're not seeing the full human?

• 43:40Joe Rogan?

  Right. They're only seeing the military humans.

• 43:43Speaker 01

  Right. And that's why I kind of took the tact that I did instead of going through all the other channels is I just was like, let me try something new. Let me talk to the people. Get to know the people, what they feel about this. And I'll just tell my story. Whatever happens, happens. Yeah, I took some spears. But, you know, for the most part, people are ready for this.

• 44:00Joe Rogan?

  People definitely want it. Whether they're ready for it, we'll find out if it actually becomes bigger and more profound than what we've currently experienced.

• 44:09Speaker 02

  I got, I got asked a question and they said, if you were going to go to Congress and say, here's what we need to know about the UAP experience, what would you tell everybody?

• 44:19Speaker 01

  That's a good question.

• 44:20Speaker 02

  And my answer was, we don't need you anymore because so many groups now have caught on that if they attune themselves to whatever it is, they can talk to these things directly themselves. Now, whether it's good or bad, but because of the, the badness that has transpired over the years, more and more people of like you, you said you don't trust the government. There's people, they don't trust the government at all in this other thing. So they're like, let's reach out by ourselves. You've got people doing, you know, RV and out of the body experience and all that other stuff.

• 44:56Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 44:57Speaker 02

  You've got people that are being contacted directly. So now they're trying to say, say things. So, and also too, we're evolving. So as we're evolving and other things start happening, you have to start questioning, why do we need the government in the middle of this? Please don't take this the wrong way because people get angry. It's kind of like the Catholic Church.

• 45:21Speaker 02

  I was always told, if you want to talk to God, you talk to God. But then why do I need a priest?

• 45:27Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 45:28Speaker 02

  You know, so the government's always been the middleman.

• 45:31Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 45:32Speaker 02

  So, do we really still need him?

• 45:34Joe Rogan?

  So, when you're saying that all these people have figured out these methods, how to communicate with the aliens, what you're talking about is like people sitting down, suppo- this is something I'm hearing a lot lately, sitting down and supposedly summoning them, putting out like an intention and that they, they will come.

• 45:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 45:50Joe Rogan?

  Does that happen with you? You ever try it?

• 45:52Speaker 02

  I haven't yet, so.

• 45:54Joe Rogan?

  Why wouldn't you try it? If you think it's real.

• 45:57Speaker 02

  I tell everybody I'm black and I'm afraid of the woo.

• 46:01Speaker 02

  Okay? Um, but at some point, I know I'm gonna have to embrace it because it is part of the experience. So, like, I'm good friends with Travis Taylor, and when we first started talking, he was like, "Okay, I'd like to, to, to talk to you about coming out to the ranch, you and some of your, your friends, your intel guys." And we just, you know, we talked about it, and then I, I kinda put it up in the room and said, "Hey, guys,

• 46:28Speaker 02

  if we had a chance to go out to the ranch, here we go." And all the white people put their hands up right away, and all the black people were like in the corner going, "Now, let's think about this." Now, what are you actually asking? You know, and I, and I, and I sat there and I go, "Why is it that we're so, you know, reserved about going?" And I remember something that someone told me was, "When the woo happens, you embrace it. But, you don't run towards it because that, whatever that experience is, it was probably meant for somebody else, and now you're interfering when you run towards it."

• 47:00Joe Rogan?

  Right, so if you summon the UFO, like if they come to visit you, that's meant to happen to you, but if you're summoning them?

• 47:06Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. You may be, you may be causing a distraction.

• 47:11Joe Rogan?

  Also, like, what do you, I mean, people say that, "Yeah, if I could, if I could experience UFO contact, I would." Well, would you really? Cause that might fuck up the whole rest of your life. Like, what if it does happen, and then it never happens again, and then you have a wife and kids and a house and,

• 47:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:27Joe Rogan?

  you're just sitting in your fucking living room trying to pay attention to this football game, when you're thinking about, "I've seen a fucking alien, I've, I've seen UFOs, they've come down and communicated with me telepathically."

• 47:36Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 47:36Joe Rogan?

  I know they're real, they're real.

• 47:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, well.

• 47:40Joe Rogan?

  It would ruin your whole life.

• 47:42Speaker 02

  Remember, remember that, remember that movie with Ben Affleck, I think it was called, like, Chasing Amy? And.

• 47:48Joe Rogan?

  Chasing Amy, I remember the name.

• 47:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:50Joe Rogan?

  I don't remember the movie though.

• 47:51Speaker 01

  Not that Amy.

• 47:52Speaker 02

  No, but there was something that was said in there that always made me think. After you have a first experience, and in this particular case, there was talking about your first orgasm. You're always chasing after that first best feeling that you ever had. You never, you're never gonna get there, but you're chasing it.

• 48:09Joe Rogan?

  They talk, they talk, say that about heroin too.

• 48:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 48:12Joe Rogan?

  Called chasing the dragon.

• 48:13Speaker 02

  Yes, so, so if you're one of those people that had a really profound experience with a creature from another world.

• 48:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 48:22Speaker 02

  You can't really explain it to everybody else, so you're looking for something else to, to make it seem real. Because you start questioning everything that you know, you know? And that's, that's how I was, I, my, my first experience was when I was a kid in England. And me and a friend were just throwing a ball back and forward. And you know, in the old days, people used to wrap the sneakers around the telephone lines? So I just happened to see that there was some sneakers up there. And then all of a sudden I look off in the distance and there's this UAP UFO that looks like an iron. That you would iron your clothes with, the whole bottom part was glowing. The top part was just dullish gray, cause you know, England, gray skies, whatever.

• 49:03Joe Rogan?

  Was the shape, the top like an iron as well?

• 49:04Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah.

• 49:05Joe Rogan?

  So it had like a hump to it?

• 49:06Speaker 02

  It kinda had a hump to it, so I'm sitting there going, well, what is that? And he goes, that's gotta be a helicopter, cause it's just standing there. And I was like, but I don't hear any noise, you know? And then next thing you know, we saw, I believe it was two F4 jets coming, cause you could hear them. Those engines are loud. And this thi- these two jets come out and this thing just goes, and this is when I was living in Nottingham, England. Cause I'm, I'm British by birth, alright? So, you know, our parents were like, eh, too much imagination, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. And I just kinda kept it in the back of my head and then I saw things later and I just kept questioning them. And finally it was like.

• 49:43Speaker 02

  I'm really gonna have to look into this.

• 49:45Joe Rogan?

  So how old were you?

• 49:46Speaker 02

  I was about ten.

• 49:47Joe Rogan?

  Ten, so you were, and you said you were like ten as well?

• 49:50Speaker 01

  I was ten, yeah.

• 49:51Joe Rogan?

  This is one of the things that I I keep hearing about this idea that children and their innocence, or they're, they don't have this blockade in their head to keep them from, they they don't think it's ridiculous to think about aliens. They're, they're, they're open to it more.

• 50:10Speaker 02

  We, we, we talked about this.

• 50:12Speaker 01

  We're programmed as we get mature.

• 50:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we, we don't wanna be fools.

• 50:15Speaker 02

  Right, so I believe, and this is just my belief, not anybody's, but I believe from the mid nineteen fifties, all the way up to the mid nineteen nineties, I think there was a deliberate attempt by these entities to reach out to schoolchildren and going to the schools, cause remember the ruins.

• 50:37Joe Rogan?

  Zimbabwe.

• 50:38Speaker 02

  Right.

• 50:38Joe Rogan?

  That one's crazy. That's crazy, cause all those years later, they all have the same story. They all drew the same thing independently. They pulled them aside.

• 50:45Speaker 01

  They remember it.

• 50:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then there's the stuff in Australia, there's the stuff in England, there's the stuff in France. It's constantly, I think.

• 50:52Joe Rogan?

  The Australian one's real similar too, right?

• 50:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think his name was Preston Dennett. He wrote a book. I hope your viewers read it or take a look at it. It's like the top one hundred school sightings. And half of it is based on just the sighting. Another part of it is based on the actual thing landing and trying to communicate with the kids. And I sat there just thinking, were they doing that to prepare us for now, for when they do come back? So we're not so afraid, the kids are more open minded? I'm not sure, but you have to think about those things and go, hmm, you know, aren't you seeing a whole thing?

• 51:27Joe Rogan?

  Things that make you go hmm.

• 51:29Speaker 02

  You know, so those were some of the things that we just started thinking about and going, well, what if, and then I, I hate to play what if games, cause my favorite what if is, what if worms had machine guns, birds wouldn't mess with them? Um, but.

• 51:45Speaker 02

  But you have to play that game sometime and just kind of draw it out and then see if it, if you have hypotheses that can start repeating itself and then you go, hey, there is something to this.

• 51:55Joe Rogan?

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• 52:39Speaker 03

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• 53:01Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know because I use it. That's right, joe rogan.com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website like an AI-enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links. Head to squarespace.com/rogan for a free trial and when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGEN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Well, the real question is, how long have entities been visiting us?

• 53:43Joe Rogan?

  And are the same entities visiting us over and over again? Or like the Zimbabwe incident? Is that like the first time that species has ever been here? And did they just seek contact and didn't know that they're dealing with little children in a school? They just knew they were dealing with a group of intelligent beings that they could communicate with? They probably don't even have the concept of a school, right?

• 54:05Speaker 01

  Right.

• 54:05Joe Rogan?

  So if they're landing, I mean, they probably understand basic culture for human beings. But as they land and interact with people, this might be the first time they've, this species has interacted with anybody. We don't know. I mean, we're dealing with hundreds of billions of stars just in this galaxy alone.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  And personally, from just my belief in it is that we have millennia of these sorts of encounters, all through manuscripts, even George Washington's got his story.

• 54:33Joe Rogan?

  George Washington had a story?

• 54:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, he met a green somebody before he actually went into a battle.

• 54:40Joe Rogan?

  Yo, pull that up, Jamie.

• 54:43Joe Rogan?

  George Washington had a UFO encounter? Or an entity encounter?

• 54:47Speaker 01

  An entity. He just said that this was...

• 54:49Joe Rogan?

  George Washington also had lead poisoning. Shane Gillis has the best bit about George Washington. I don't know if you've ever seen it. It's fucking hilarious about going to the George Washington Museum and seeing George Washington's teeth. And George Washington's teeth... They're all wooden. Well, no, they were slave teeth. First of all, they knocked some of the teeth out of slaves' mouths and the other ones were from horses.

• 55:11Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh.

• 55:11Joe Rogan?

  And it was set in, it's all in lead. So he had lead in his mouth.

• 55:16Speaker 01

  I always thought they were wooden.

• 55:18Joe Rogan?

  So his joke is all about like George Washington being fucking mad with lead poisoning. Fucking killing everybody. That's why he's at the front of the boat. He was out of his fucking mind. It's a great bit, but the point is like George Washington was being poisoned by, you know, medical science at the time. They didn't know that lead was bad for you.

• 55:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's...

• 55:36Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy. He kept lead in his mouth.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I remember...

• 55:40Joe Rogan?

  I know, but like, makes you wonder like, what are we doing right now that the future people are gonna go, these fucking idiots were doing that? But George Washington, have you found his account, Jamie?

• 55:52Joe Rogan?

  So.

• 55:54Speaker 04

  From Ancient Aliens about the founding fathers.

• 55:56Joe Rogan?

  Good enough, solid reference. If it's not Ancient Aliens, it's legit.

• 56:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. Get Giorgio Sucallos to say it was wild hair.

• 56:07Speaker 02

  So, so all those, all those things that happened to those kids, we don't know if it was, I mean, we're hearing stories now that they can mess with your mind. We don't know if they're pushing these kids forward mentally. We don't know if they're, you know, dumbing them down because they know that's, these kids are gonna be the ones that are gonna make a difference. Because it all depends on what they're trying to do.

• 56:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, they're all adults now, right?

• 56:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:29Joe Rogan?

  Are any of them like real exceptional? Or any of them like PhDs or something like?

• 56:32Speaker 02

  I have not, I have not gone to check any of that. But, one of the things that coincides with that, that I kinda, I think there was

• 56:44Speaker 02

  exceptional people usually have to do some exceptional things to, to get noticed. And I think even if you're exceptional, you may not have fit the right block to get, to get noticed. So that someone would sit there and go, hey, what's going on in your past, whatever? And then there's a lot of these people, they just don't wanna talk about.

• 57:02Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 57:02Speaker 02

  Because of whatever the stigma. But now that the stigma is being lifted, you know, who knows? Maybe Elon Musk will come up and say.

• 57:09Joe Rogan?

  The stigma's being lifted, but people still live with the haunting memory of the stigma being a part of their life. So I think people that have had an experience a long time ago, even though the stigma's lifted, they're still reluctant to talk about it. It's like, there's still people that are in the closet. Like homosexuality is like way less taboo than it's ever been in, in modern history, right? But yet, there's still people that have been in the closet for 20 years and then trapped. And they're just like, fuck! And they can't be themselves. They can't get out. I think for a lot of people that have had these crazy experiences, they probably had some moments where they told people, friends, and they got mocked, and people called them liars, they felt like an idiot, like, I'm just not telling anybody this anymore.

• 57:52Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 57:53Joe Rogan?

  Which totally makes sense.

• 57:54Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 57:55Speaker 01

  And it's the same thing that's happening on X and other platforms as well, is there's people coming forward trying to speak their truth.

• 58:00Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:01Speaker 01

  And they get shut down by people that don't, have never been there. They're just opinionating.

• 58:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but that's just toxic internet. That's just the-

• 58:09Speaker 02

  One hundred percent. I agree with you.

• 58:11Joe Rogan?

  It's just human beings, online, they're just not good at it. We're not good. It's too new. We suck at it. We're real shitty to each other. You know, and too many people, it's like, they're mentally ill. And what I mean by mentally ill is like, if you're on Twitter twelve hours a day, and you're constantly tweeting before you go to bed, you're mentally ill. You might not think you're mentally ill. Just like when you're an alcoholic, you're mentally ill. If you're a gambling addict, you're mentally ill. You're not well, right? You're fucking trying to bet your house on a football game. You're out of your fucking mind.

• 58:40Speaker 01

  You're addicted.

• 58:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're mentally ill. You're mentally ill if you're on Twitter all day, just arguing with people. It's just the nature of the technology and the very crude way that people interact with each other, which is, leads you to think that as technology evolves, and it gets to the point where we're communicating telepathy, through telepathy, telepathically, like supposedly they can, it sort of eliminates the need to even know our language. They can just come and give us thoughts and express things in a pure way, without the need to like decipher it through syntax and-

• 59:13Speaker 02

  But there's still the worry of misinterpretation, because my family was pretty religious. And when I was growing up, they're like, "God is omnipotent. God knows everything. God doesn't make mistakes and everything." And then I was like, "Yeah, that's not exactly true." But if you think that God is omnipotent and he's communicating with everybody, how is it that all the leaders that serve a church have different views on how we're supposed to talk to God? If God is-

• 59:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 59:39Speaker 02

  Why isn't he just saying-

• 59:40Speaker 01

  It's a personal experience, really.

• 59:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:42Speaker 01

  And it's the same thing with the, I think, the NHI, is that, like you're saying, you'd like to put a pattern to it. But maybe there's not. There's some, you know, very random things that have happened in other encounters, but there's some of them that do seem to be, have a concerted effort, a prolonged effort for maybe even millennia. Um, because we do see like old stone, uh, ancient, you know, monuments and monoliths that do have these depictions of what look exactly like grays.

• 1:00:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:09Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:00:10Joe Rogan?

  The craziest one, is it in Australia? The one that's on the wall where there's all these dudes with the big eyes?

• 1:00:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:00:16Speaker 02

  There's a, there's a couple of places where that is.

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  There's a couple of those, they're cave paintings that are like that, yeah.

• 1:00:20Joe Rogan?

  Where are those from?

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  Uh, I think there's some down in, uh, uh, South America.

• 1:00:26Joe Rogan?

  I saved one. I'll send it to you, Jamie, because it just, if I saw it the other day online and it freaked me out so much, I saved it on my phone. I was like, this is so crazy just to look at.

• 1:00:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, and there was one on the side of a, like a hillside or a, a cliff face. Yeah, that was another one.

• 1:00:39Speaker 02

  Man, that's white, white, white freaked you out?

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  I think that was Arizona.

• 1:00:43Joe Rogan?

  Um, well, because I just sent it to Jamie. We'll take a look at it right here. Jamie, you could throw, run that through a Google search. You could find out where it is, or I'll do that while you put it up on the screen. Um, it freaks me out because these people were starving. These people were like barely getting by, right? They're, they have stone tools. And they took the time to draw these things with these like weird helmets on and these big black eyes. Which is very similar to so many different encounters that people have. They, they all describe a very similar thing, a big head with giant black eyes.

• 1:01:21Speaker 02

  So, so those are the typical grays, but I heard in South America, there were people that they showed that picture to and they called them the ant people because they said they came from underground.

• 1:01:31Joe Rogan?

  Yo. Well, that's, that's the other question. Like, we're just sort of assuming that these things are definitely from another planet. That they're not here and they haven't been here all along.

• 1:01:44Speaker 01

  Isn't it the Anasazi and the Navajo?

• 1:01:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So, yeah, this, these are Aboriginal drawings or Aboriginal paintings.

• 1:01:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:52Joe Rogan?

  So this is from Australia, which is just wild.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  And you get them all over the world.

• 1:01:56Joe Rogan?

  All over the world and real similar all over the world.

• 1:01:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, you got them in Ireland, Europe, you got them in the United States, get central, central America.

• 1:02:03Speaker 02

  And the vast majority of those children that saw UAP, uh, that came down to their school, if there was an entity that was there. Was usually the typical gray looking ones that were there.

• 1:02:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, the ones that they saw in Varginia Brazil are kinda similar, but they seem like a darker color, like it was almost like a purple, right?

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was reddish purple or something like that.

• 1:02:23Joe Rogan?

  But they did have the black eyes and the large heads and.

• 1:02:26Speaker 01

  They had horns though.

• 1:02:27Joe Rogan?

  They had horns.

• 1:02:28Speaker 01

  There was a very specific thing that they said.

• 1:02:30Speaker 02

  The pictures that we're seeing for Varginia, this one had red eyes. And the reason why I'm bringing that up is because a friend of mine contacted me, a mutual friend that we talked about.

• 1:02:41Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:42Speaker 02

  He, uh, he was talking about something known as the Dover Demon and it's over by Dover, Dover, Delaware. And there was supposed to be an incident where a, a UAP came down and there was a creature. And it looked a lot like the Varginia creature with the red eyes and whatever. So he was asking.

• 1:03:01Joe Rogan?

  That's what the Varginia things were? Oh, that's the Dover Demon?

• 1:03:03Speaker 01

  That's the Dover.

• 1:03:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that looks like a shoe bill bird, that crazy bird.

• 1:03:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, but he said it had bright red eyes.

• 1:03:10Joe Rogan?

  Oh, fun. Imagine that. Imagine running into that thing in the night.

• 1:03:14Speaker 02

  Right, so the question.

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  Glowing eyes.

• 1:03:16Joe Rogan?

  Never sleep again.

• 1:03:17Speaker 02

  All I know is I, like I told Travis.

• 1:03:19Joe Rogan?

  That does look a lot like the Varginia one, though. Go back to that last drawing you drew, Jamie. Or you pull up, pulled up rather. Now, if you can, will you pull up the image of the Varginia drawing? Cause they had an artist who talked to little girls that saw that. And those women and, you know, the, the really, that, look at it, come on, man. That looks exactly the same.

• 1:03:41Speaker 01

  Okay, and there's those bumps on the head though, but yeah, you can see that maybe.

• 1:03:43Joe Rogan?

  That's exactly the same fucking thing, man.

• 1:03:45Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:03:46Joe Rogan?

  Like, literally, exactly.

• 1:03:47Speaker 02

  So I, I told, I told Travis, if you ever see, if you ever get me to go to come to Skinwalker Ranch. I said, know that I've got a plan. And he was like, what are you talking about? And I said, I will not be the slowest runner. However, I will not be the fastest runner because I don't, because I don't know what's really going on there. I don't wanna run from one thing into another, so I'm gonna make sure I have an escape plan.

• 1:04:13Joe Rogan?

  I went to Skinwalker Ranch.

• 1:04:14Speaker 02

  Oh, you did?

• 1:04:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  How'd that go?

• 1:04:16Joe Rogan?

  Well, we, I was doing it for a television show and we interviewed a bunch of people that lived there. And one guy, there's a lot of, there was a lot of people that they wanted to be interviewed. Then when we got there, they chickened out. It seemed like there might be some drug use going on in the surrounding areas. A few people seemed like a little on tilt, but I think that's a good part of America. I think there's a lot of people, you could find some packets of people in America that are just doing drugs. So I wouldn't say that that was what it was, but this one guy that I talked to didn't seem like that at all. He seemed very respectable. I don't remember what he did. But he was a very smart guy, blue collar guy, and lived in this very modest house.

• 1:04:56Joe Rogan?

  And he had this story of this thing that flew into his yard and through his house. And he said it was a small orb and he said it seemed to be communicating with him. And this guy didn't have any other bullshit stories. He didn't have any claims of, just this one experience that he said was beautiful. He said it was incredible that this thing seemed like it was alive. It seemed like it was communicating with him and it went right through the walls. And then it, and it went through the wall again and disappeared.

• 1:05:27Speaker 02

  I've had a similar case. So every March I go to Seaside, Oregon, because they have a paranormal conference. And I, I'm not into the paranormal stuff, but my friends are. So I want to listen and I want to learn.

• 1:05:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:05:38Speaker 02

  Because this is me getting, trying to get over my fear of going in there.

• 1:05:42Joe Rogan?

  You have a fear of paranormal or a fear of being around the people that believe in paranormal?

• 1:05:46Speaker 02

  No, of the paranormal because of certain things that I've heard from when I was a kid. You know, and you have to overcome some of those childhood fears and stuff like that.

• 1:05:53Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:05:54Speaker 02

  So when I was there, I was giving us, talking about my app and all this other stuff. And these two Asian ladies were watching me walk on the stage. And I was like, why are they looking at me like that? I was like, is my flight down or something? What did I do? You know? And as soon as I stepped off the stage, I said, Mr. Logan, what are they? What are they? And I was like, what do you mean? She pulls out on her phone the most beautiful.

• 1:06:19Speaker 02

  pristine picture of an orb sitting in a doorway. And I'm like, what happened there? And she said, it was my birthday. And she said, all my family was there. And she said, but I got tired, so I was laying down. And she said, I heard like this electrical discharge going on. And she said, it came right through her wall. Started floating across her room. She said, it got to her doorway. She screamed. And all her family came and the the son, I guess it was, took the picture of the orb. And I was so amazed by her story. I I even forgot to ask her to give me a copy of the picture.

• 1:06:53Joe Rogan?

  How long ago was this?

• 1:06:54Speaker 02

  This was like two years ago. We.

• 1:06:57Joe Rogan?

  So fairly modern phone.

• 1:06:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. It was a it was an iPhone. Um, she was, um, they were from Northern California and they drove up to this to this thing. And I'm just like, so what happened? She said. She said, it actually sat there and did this.

• 1:07:15Speaker 02

  Like a heartbeat, getting bigger and smaller.

• 1:07:17Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:07:18Speaker 02

  And then she said, it just kinda went back out the way it came in. And she goes. What are they? You you you were on the task force. Don't you know about these things? And I was like, whoa. You know, we're not omnipotent. You know, we're trying to learn just like you are. And and and every year, I've been back there twice now. And every year I go, hey, if those two ladies are in here, can we talk? And they haven't shown back up. But but it sounded just like your story of what happened to this other.

• 1:07:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he was the only guy that was compelling. There was a bunch of other people that had goofy stories of bulletproof wolves that appeared out of the mist and like, okay. They just seemed like some people just wanted to be on TV, which is normal, right?

• 1:08:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:08:00Joe Rogan?

  You show up with cameras, people tell stories. And this is another show that I worked on once. Uh, it was called Game Show in My Head, and this is pretty funny. We, uh, told people. So there was a the game show was, we would take a contestant. The contestant knew that they were gonna pull pranks on people. But they didn't know what the prank was gonna be. And so we had a piece in their ear and we would put them out in the public. And my thing was that I had to tell them that they are, um, a news reporter.

• 1:08:28Joe Rogan?

  And that someone had just seen a UFO and had an encounter with an alien. Uh, right there in Hollywood, but the person who was the witness took off. Would you be willing to go on camera and say it was you? And everybody said yes, they all did. And people had crazy stories. They talked about being abducted and being on the ship and experience. And they were communicating with me, they just fully made up stories. And that was an eye opener for me, I was like, wow, you put a camera on people. They just are so hyped to be on TV, they just bullshit you.

• 1:09:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, they can.

• 1:09:07Speaker 02

  That was.

• 1:09:08Joe Rogan?

  Cause the guy, the guy who was in on it was shocked too. Cause he was like, I can't believe that these people just started fucking lying.

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, when you get ingrained eyes like that, that's where you kind of have people that do that. It's just to engrandize or enlarge themselves.

• 1:09:20Joe Rogan?

  Sure, everybody wants to, especially when you put a camera on people.

• 1:09:23Speaker 01

  But then you get in with other people like the whistleblowers I know. They've pretty much given up everything like me, you know?

• 1:09:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, this guy was not interested in, you know, much attention. He just wanted to tell us his story and he was a regular dude. Like we talked about all kinds of stuff, he had a big trout on his wall. It was a, he would, he had a trout, like when they make trophies out of fish, they don't really make trophies anymore. They, now that what they do is they take a photo and the measurements and then they make like a plastic version of that fish that looks exactly like it. That's how they do it. But this guy had like a real trophy fish that he had mounted, I'm like, they don't even do that anymore. So I started asking him questions and.

• 1:09:58Speaker 04

  Came to show my head.

• 1:09:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's it. Um, but a long time ago, but the point is this guy was a sincere dude. He was telling me how he caught the fish, you know, when I'm asking people questions about stuff, I want to know how you think. You know, when I'm talking to some guy that tells me he had an encounter with an orb. I want to hear what you talk about, like, how do you talk about you at work? How do you talk about you with your kids? How do you, how do you treat your dog? You know, how do you, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm trying to like get a gauge of this guy. He seems super sincere, just a regular, good guy, very accommodating, like very friendly.

• 1:10:31Speaker 02

  You would have made a good analyst.

• 1:10:33Joe Rogan?

  Maybe.

• 1:10:34Speaker 02

  Cause, cause the, the thing that we're trying to do is the all source analysis to look at all aspects of what happened.

• 1:10:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:40Speaker 02

  And sometimes people just go in there, well, I mean, the, the thing that really upsets me is when I was part of the task force. Was someone just handing me a picture and just going, so what is it?

• 1:10:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, right, right, right.

• 1:10:51Speaker 02

  No context, no nothing, you're just like.

• 1:10:54Speaker 01

  Uh, okay.

• 1:10:55Speaker 02

  You can't be fake. Right.

• 1:10:57Joe Rogan?

  I don't know what the fuck that is.

• 1:10:58Speaker 01

  Let me put it through the image analyzer.

• 1:11:00Speaker 02

  Right, you know, I don't know if you've had any mental issues or, you know.

• 1:11:03Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 1:11:04Speaker 02

  I mean, someone showed me something that it was a button on a glass. And at first I was like, that looks really intriguing, but there was something about it that was just, it wasn't quite right. And I'm like, I think this is fake, but I don't know why. And then finally the guy said, ah, you know, button on a glass, you know.

• 1:11:23Joe Rogan?

  It's the thing that, do you know that feel, have you ever seen photos of miniature cars?

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  Yes, there's that autistic kid that does that.

• 1:11:32Speaker 01

  I was just looking at that yesterday, yeah.

• 1:11:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but there's, but what I was getting at, there's something wrong with the car that even in a photo, you know, it's not a real car.

• 1:11:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:11:41Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's a miniature car.

• 1:11:42Speaker 01

  Your brain is very good at that.

• 1:11:43Joe Rogan?

  It's real, that's a real weird one because it doesn't make sense. Like, there's a, there's a perception. You look at it like, oh, that's a miniature car. It's a fake. That's like a Hot Wheel because they're really good now. Like, if you pull up a photo of like a, a miniature Mustang.

• 1:12:03Speaker 02

  There's, there's an autistic kid out there that.

• 1:12:06Speaker 01

  That's all he does.

• 1:12:07Speaker 02

  That's all he does. He gets miniature cars and puts them in a real background.

• 1:12:11Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I've seen that. Yeah, I've seen that.

• 1:12:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:13Joe Rogan?

  So these are miniatures? Yeah, those are fake. Okay, well, that, that's really good. That's really good. That's a lot better than normal.

• 1:12:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you can see the tires are not resting, you know, flat like there's a weight to the car.

• 1:12:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's a good point. That's a good point.

• 1:12:28Speaker 01

  See, those are the things as an analyst you look at in the image. It's just you're looking at, you know, uh, things like that.

• 1:12:34Speaker 02

  Actually, yeah, that's the kid. Thirteen year old kid.

• 1:12:36Speaker 01

  There you go, yeah.

• 1:12:36Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so he's really good at it.

• 1:12:38Speaker 02

  He's really good.

• 1:12:39Joe Rogan?

  These look, other than what you said, Jay, that you don't see the weight of the tires. Um, but like, okay, that one right there, that Nissan, click on that one, the blue one. Yeah, that's a Nissan GT-R. I'm looking at that and I'm like, that's a fake car. I don't know why.

• 1:12:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, that looks like a model.

• 1:12:55Joe Rogan?

  But why does it look like a model?

• 1:12:56Speaker 02

  It's gotta be that driver's window.

• 1:12:58Speaker 01

  It's the decals to me.

• 1:12:59Joe Rogan?

  Alright, but everything looks pretty fucking good.

• 1:13:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:13:02Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, it looks good, but there's this little details that your mind is picking up on going, eh, it's not quite right.

• 1:13:07Joe Rogan?

  Right. I mean, there's something about it, right? And what is that something about it?

• 1:13:13Speaker 02

  This, this kind of falls into the area too of, um.

• 1:13:16Joe Rogan?

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• 1:14:01Joe Rogan?

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• 1:14:43Joe Rogan?

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• 1:15:13Speaker 02

  When you do see a UAP? Something about it is what's telling you that it's a UAP, but you're also looking in your, in your mind's, you know, memory bank to say, this is fake, this can't be real because it's not doing X, it's not doing whatever.

• 1:15:28Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:15:29Speaker 02

  And then sometimes you end up going, it's, it's just not real, I'm throwing it out of my head. And then all of a sudden, someone either tells you something that makes you go back and go, oh my God, that thing did that, so maybe it was real. Or you see something about it, something weird about it that just triggers you and you're like, oh, OMG. And now, your, your whole thing, your whole view on the whole universe is changing because you're like,

• 1:15:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's one of the litmus tests I give people when they, you know, because I have a lot of people that ask me, can you vet this guy? He says he's had an encounter. And then I kind of go through the experience because, you know, the one that I had in the desert, there was a telepathic kind of a thing that happened during that conversation I had with that gentleman in the desert. And there's parts of that that people have only really experienced it, they actually know about, um, like the residual data that are information that's left behind in your own mind. Uh, because you're sharing a mind space and things like this. And there's certain things that when I ask questions of people that, you know, sometimes I can tell right then and there, you weren't there, you know? That's not a real experience, but the people that do describe it, and I know that they're telling the truth.

• 1:16:39Speaker 01

  There's certain characteristics about that communication type that you only get when you've been talking, no kidding, telepathically with.

• 1:16:47Joe Rogan?

  Right. Well, especially you as a person who's had an experience.

• 1:16:51Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:16:51Joe Rogan?

  You, you have something to gauge. There's certain things like in your field, like if you ran into a dude at the airport, there was a faker, you know, there's a lot of guys love like put on like fake military outfits and pretend they're, and then they get questioned by.

• 1:17:04Speaker 02

  Stolen valor.

• 1:17:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:17:06Joe Rogan?

  It's weird.

• 1:17:07Speaker 01

  It is.

• 1:17:08Joe Rogan?

  But people are weird. People will make up crazy stories. So like when you're dealing with the craziest of crazy stories, which is, UFOs have been in contact with me. I'm special. They chose me to talk to me.

• 1:17:18Speaker 01

  And I don't feel special at all. I was accidental.

• 1:17:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's probably because it was a real story.

• 1:17:24Speaker 02

  So when he first showed up, I was one of the first people to get his.

• 1:17:28Speaker 01

  He, he knows my whole history, man.

• 1:17:30Speaker 02

  When he first showed up, uh, first thing I, I, I read through everything. I was like, Hmm, I'm gonna have to run a background check on this guy.

• 1:17:40Joe Rogan?

  Right, he might be kook.

• 1:17:41Speaker 02

  Right, and then I was like, so I did the basics. And then I called up David Gresham, I was like, boy, do I have a doozy for you. I, I can't do anything with this guy because I, I, I, there's not enough here for me to do a thorough background check, but boy, you gotta listen to what this guy has to say. And from there, David took it on, and I was like, he came back to me and goes, "Well, this guy looks to be the real deal," and I was like, "Holy crap."

• 1:18:10Joe Rogan?

  So we kind of teased that then, so let's, let's get to your experience. Why don't you tell everybody what happened?

• 1:18:17Speaker 01

  Um, just doing my job at Nellis, we had two things we did. We did the telephone monitoring.

• 1:18:22Joe Rogan?

  Where's Nellis?

• 1:18:24Speaker 01

  It's in Nevada. So, uh, I'm working at Nellis Air Force Base for the, that three. Uh, and that's where the program, they have a shop that, uh, of four guys, I was one of them, that would go out and monitor for the program. So anyway, um, the other side of my job was also doing monitoring for everybody else that wasn't in the program.

• 1:18:46Joe Rogan?

  And when you say monitoring, what do you mean by that?

• 1:18:48Speaker 01

  You're actually plugging into like, just like you heard, tapping telephones, all, all the ways we tell the commu-, you know, all the telecommunications type, we made sure that we'd listen to radios, we listened to radio waves, all that, and we gather it all in. And what we're tasked to do is, you know, say a commander at Wright Patterson, you know, we went to do, it's always a two-week mission mostly, unless it's part of an operation like Desert Storm, and you stay for a month or two, and then you change out teams, but two weeks is, is the sto-, the standard. So we go two weeks to Wright Patterson, we gather all the information we can on all the telecommunications means, and we also have an OSI team that's trying to sneak in the doors and get into the facilities they shouldn't be at, uh, just to test the security, and that's all we're there for.

• 1:19:32Speaker 01

  And at the end of the day, on the last Friday, we go in and we talk to the staff. And then about ninety days later, we put in a, a final report and give that again back to the staff. Um, and that's kind of how we rolled. So, um...

• 1:19:47Speaker 01

  We're going up range. For those kind of things, we don't do the telephone monitoring. When we go up range to the test, the test range at Nellis, that was what we called red forcing. And what our job was there is we were also trained to do combat ops against our own pilots, so that we could help them survive in a wartime environment. And that was done at the top of Black Mountain. And that we call that a, it was a little schoolhouse there. And then if you walk up another few yards, there's really those big golf ball looking radars, or satellite dishes were up at the very top. But anyway, that's where we were heading this one day. So we all packed up. We're in Beatty, Nevada, which is the

• 1:20:30Speaker 01

  Borough Inn. I can tell you that's where we always hold up at. And we take off from there every morning to go do the AM and the PM push. That's what you call it when the war is on. You call it the push. So we had one in the morning called AM push, one in the afternoon PM push. So we were all heading up for the AM push. In a convoy, there's three vehicles, probably about three to four people per vehicle. I'm in the lead vehicle with the ranking guy. He's, he's driving. And I'm right behind him. And then there's another gentleman in the passenger seat across from the driver. And then there's a young lady next to me. And we're all going up. And the ranking guy had been there the week before. And he had

• 1:21:09Speaker 01

  seen the craft fly by. Because that was, and that one's out there on the internet. You can pull down the video. There's a report that goes along with it.

• 1:21:19Joe Rogan?

  There's a video that we can watch right now?

• 1:21:20Speaker 01

  Right now, yeah.

• 1:21:21Joe Rogan?

  What would he search?

• 1:21:22Speaker 01

  Search for, um, let me think. Nellis Test Range UFO 1994.

• 1:21:30Joe Rogan?

  Dun dun dun. Who filmed this?

• 1:21:34Speaker 01

  This was filmed by the operators on the range because We're putting these pilots in a risky situation by playing war with them, but we're training them. So if there is any kind of a mishap or a pilot or plane goes down, everything needs to be recorded.

• 1:21:52Joe Rogan?

  This is it right here?

• 1:21:53Speaker 01

  Yes. So this is being taken, this video is being taken by one of these cameras that's up on the range. And along the bottom, you see that this is also trying to lock on to the craft so it can, you know, follow it as it goes in and out because this is the kind of way that you want to track if there's a craft that is having problems.

• 1:22:13Joe Rogan?

  This is moving very radically.

• 1:22:15Speaker 01

  Right. So this is what my, the ranking guy saw.

• 1:22:19Joe Rogan?

  Can I pause you for a second? This tracking, is this manual or is this like some sort of an automated system?

• 1:22:23Speaker 01

  It's an automated system.

• 1:22:24Joe Rogan?

  So the automated system is having a hard time?

• 1:22:26Speaker 01

  Locking on.

• 1:22:27Joe Rogan?

  Locking on to it.

• 1:22:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, if it locks on, you'll see a big spike and that means that it finally locks on. Right now, it's trying to, but something is stopping it from locking on. And they think it was the craft.

• 1:22:38Joe Rogan?

  It's moving like crazy, side to side, all over.

• 1:22:42Speaker 02

  There's actually a recording that goes with it where you got, you hear the guys going, "Hey, does anybody know what this is? What's going on here?"

• 1:22:48Joe Rogan?

  Can we hear that?

• 1:23:13Joe Rogan?

  Okay, the sound is terrible.

• 1:23:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:16Joe Rogan?

  They need better mics.

• 1:23:17Speaker 01

  Honestly, it has to be a sound when you're working up there.

• 1:23:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I'm sure. But he's saying, "What is that? I don't know. We're having a hard time locking on to it."

• 1:23:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:23:25Speaker 01

  Right. This is the video operator. So this, the following week after this happens, this video is taken. Uh, the ranking guy who had been there the week before and saw this thing flying. He takes us in this, uh, when you, you go on the range through this one gate here. It, it goes up a little ways and then there's a contolment area. It's got a very small place where you can change your tires, get gas. Uh, you know, just ma- you know, minor maintenance to get your butt home. If you have a car that's busted. And then in the back of that contolment area, there's two huts that look like campers, really. Uh, glorified campers. So the video operators are in the one that's off to the, uh, the north. East of the, the contolment and in the very corner of it.

• 1:24:08Speaker 01

  And the ranking guy just says, we all have to go in here. We're gonna go talk to the video operators. We have to do this. And, uh, and this was because the week prior, everybody came back to garrison or back to our unit. Um, and they had seen this thing and they were all talking about this UFO. So we go in there and there's the video operator. He has us all write our names down, whether we were, were there and saw it the first week or not. Then he makes us all sit down and watch that video. And he says, do you know what this is? And we're like, no. And then he just said, okay, thank you. And then we, uh, as, after everybody that was there saw it and had wrote their name down. We were allowed to leave. And that was all that was required.

• 1:24:50Speaker 01

  And, um, so I was like, well, what was that all about? But then as I'm exiting, this lady that had been sitting against the wall on the far part of the, uh, this little hut that we were in. And, uh, she like grabs my arm and she just says, there's somebody on the range. Don't, don't talk to them. And she was really, really freaked out. And I'm like, thanks, strange freaky lady. Um, got it. And I'm like, whatever. So like, we all hop out, we get in the vehicles and then start taking off towards Quartz Mountain. Because right at that contolment area, there's a hard right. There's a hard right that goes off to Quartz Mountain. And, um, about a mile, half a mile to a mile down that road. It's all dirt road, by the way. There's this guy, it looks like he's wearing a uniform like we are.

• 1:25:36Speaker 01

  He's got battle dress uniform on. So he sees us and he starts to look like he's running and he's got this really weird run, like his arms are kind of flailing behind him. It's like he was running against the hurricane wind and it was like he was gonna fall over at any time. And I was like, "Yeah, it's a bit windy today, but it ain't that bad." So it looked really strange and then I began to notice his skin tone looked like he might be hypothermic. And I'm thinking, "Oh crap, this dude's been out here. It's freaking freezing out here." Because it was a very cold day and the wind was blowing. It was, you know, those cold days where it didn't matter how many layers you had on. And so as we're getting closer, I'm talking to the ranking guy, "Hey, we need to slow down." So anyway, I'm thinking, "This guy's probably in big trouble. I need to pull off my jacket.

• 1:26:21Speaker 01

  I need to give him something to get warm real quick." So I'm starting to do that and we're approaching and by the time I get my jacket most of the way off, he's right there at the, you know, the corner of the front of the car.

• 1:26:34Joe Rogan?

  So he looks pale? Is that what you're saying?

• 1:26:36Speaker 01

  He looked like an albino with a very bluish kind of undertone. If you could imagine, you know...

• 1:26:40Joe Rogan?

  So you're assuming, like, you're immediately associating that with, like, he's freezing?

• 1:26:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, because that's all I could equate it to. And then as I'm starting to open my door to try to, you know, administer aid to this guy, the dude in the front passenger seat screams, "He's got no ears." And I thought that was pretty rude, because I was like, "The guy's in trouble."

• 1:27:04Joe Rogan?

  Does he have a hat on?

• 1:27:06Speaker 01

  He's got a hat on and he's got BDUs that look absolutely clean, pristine. And when you're up range, you do not wear your cleanest uniform. You're in a dirty environment. You wear your scuffed up boots. You don't take them with you.

• 1:27:18Joe Rogan?

  So he's got a clean battle dress uniform?

• 1:27:20Speaker 01

  Everything.

• 1:27:21Joe Rogan?

  United States military uniform.

• 1:27:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, it looks very out of place when I finally do it. But anyway, I step out onto the roadway and this guy screams that he's got no ears. And I just think, "It's really rude." And then I close the door and I look up and he's got no freaking ears and his eyes are twice as big. And I just am like, "Yeah, what the hell did I just walk into?" This guy's not from around here.

• 1:27:41Joe Rogan?

  How far away from him are you?

• 1:27:43Speaker 01

  Um, probably from me to Lo- uh, uh.

• 1:27:45Joe Rogan?

  Just a few feet?

• 1:27:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, just a few, just talking distance.

• 1:27:47Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:27:48Speaker 01

  And, um, I'm starting to freak out, but then he starts to talk to me and it's not my language. But it's coming to, the, the understanding is like coming into my mind about every word he's saying. Cause, uh.

• 1:27:59Joe Rogan?

  So he's actually saying words?

• 1:28:01Speaker 01

  He's say- saying words, but it doesn't sound like anything I've heard before.

• 1:28:04Joe Rogan?

  But you're understanding what he's saying.

• 1:28:06Speaker 01

  But I'm understanding. So I know there's a telepathic thing going on here and it calms me down at the same time. Because I'm having to respond to him. And he's like, hello, I'm having trouble with my craft. I need some repair material. Do you know where I could find some trintium? And this is what he's talking to me about and I'm like, you mean titanium? Cause I didn't know anything about trintium at the time. Uh, but titanium, he's like, no, it's not it. Um, and I, I'm like, well, at this point in my career, I had just left the program. So I knew where Dreamland was and I pointed to the mountain range, cause you can see for, for days in the desert. But I pointed towards the mountain range and I said, uh, Dreamland's just over there.

• 1:28:49Speaker 01

  And, and this wave of emotion hit me like disgust, like I am not gonna talk to those barbarians and murderers. You know?

• 1:28:58Joe Rogan?

  Wow. So he was saying that to you?

• 1:29:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:01Joe Rogan?

  Or his reaction to going to the military base?

• 1:29:04Speaker 01

  Exactly, yeah.

• 1:29:05Joe Rogan?

  I was not gonna talk.

• 1:29:06Speaker 01

  He did not like it. He said, I am not going to talk to those people. Um, and then I was like, well, shoot.

• 1:29:11Joe Rogan?

  And it was barbarians and murderers?

• 1:29:13Speaker 01

  He's, he literally, that was what he called them, yes. And mentally, that's what it was, but the emotion.

• 1:29:19Joe Rogan?

  Trintium, is this a real thing?

• 1:29:21Speaker 01

  Well, that's what, I've had a lot of friends, there's analysts also that were on the, the top secret, uh, network that were trying to help me understand what material.

• 1:29:30Joe Rogan?

  We were throwing everything at him. We're like, is it this? Is it this?

• 1:29:33Speaker 01

  And they finally, that's the one, when they hit trintium, I was like, that's what it was. Um, that's what he said.

• 1:29:39Joe Rogan?

  And what is trintium?

• 1:29:40Speaker 01

  It's a type of, uh, well, can he bring it up on the?

• 1:29:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:29:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, because it should pop up on Wikipedia pretty quick. But, um, it has some properties that probably would work.

• 1:29:50Speaker 04

  Are you saying trintium?

• 1:29:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, tritium is, uh, that's the stuff that's in loom. Like in your watch, when your watch glows, that's, uh, or, you know, they, they make those where they, it's, they're basically radioactive isotopes that stay lit. So like if you get like a marathon watch, Marathon makes military watches and the, the, it doesn't need like this car, this watch, you need the light and the light charges the loom. And then when it's dark out, you could read the hands for like a few hours.

• 1:30:19Speaker 02

  It's the thing that they used to put on the end of the guns, right?

• 1:30:21Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. They still do. Like SIG has them on their guns.

• 1:30:24Speaker 01

  Look up trintium also. Put an end in there.

• 1:30:26Speaker 04

  I did that. Um, that's not giving me much.

• 1:30:29Joe Rogan?

  So trintium, chunky glow in the dark glitter. What is that?

• 1:30:33Speaker 04

  Oh, these are all like, these are game websites.

• 1:30:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I see.

• 1:30:36Speaker 04

  I don't know.

• 1:30:36Speaker 01

  Okay, so it was tritium, then I may be mispronouncing.

• 1:30:39Joe Rogan?

  But tritium is, that's that radioactive isotope.

• 1:30:42Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:30:43Joe Rogan?

  That's the stuff that emits light.

• 1:30:45Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:30:45Joe Rogan?

  Uh, so emits a re- weak form of radiation.

• 1:30:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:30:49Joe Rogan?

  Rare radioactive isotope of hydrogen with a half-life of 12.3 years.

• 1:30:53Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:30:54Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:30:55Speaker 01

  So th- this is what he's asking me for.

• 1:30:56Joe Rogan?

  So he's asking you for that stuff? Tritium?

• 1:30:59Speaker 01

  Yep. And I'm like, I don't know where to get.

• 1:31:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh, look at that. It's used in boosted fission weapons and thermonuclear weapons. Oh, great.

• 1:31:07Speaker 01

  That sounds pretty sure, right?

• 1:31:09Joe Rogan?

  I wonder what the fuck it's doing on your wrist?

• 1:31:12Speaker 02

  This is what we, this is what the best image that we have of what he could have looked like.

• 1:31:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy. Can you send that to Jamie?

• 1:31:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I don't know Jamie's number, but, uh, we'll find a way to.

• 1:31:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:31:26Joe Rogan?

  Is that an iPhone?

• 1:31:27Speaker 01

  If I had my phone, I would, but it's out there, I think.

• 1:31:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, airdrop it to Jamie. Do you know how to do that?

• 1:31:32Speaker 01

  There was that one.

• 1:31:33Joe Rogan?

  How dare you not know how to do that?

• 1:31:34Speaker 01

  And there's a three dimensional.

• 1:31:35Joe Rogan?

  Your guy works with UFOs. You better know how to do that.

• 1:31:37Speaker 01

  Well, there's a three dimensional image of the craft as well that is really spot on from what I saw that day.

• 1:31:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:43Speaker 01

  Um, because not only did I see this guy running towards us and talking to him, but uh off the shoulder of the, on the north side of the roadway. That's where the craft was just resting on the, the desert floor. And that's, I got a really good look at it at that point and uh it, this guy did a, a 3D rendering of the description. And it's like, it's spot on as I've ever seen. It's, it's almost perfect.

• 1:32:08Joe Rogan?

  So he asks you for tritium. You tell him dreams. This is what it looked like.

• 1:32:13Speaker 01

  This is what the guy looked like. Pretty close to it.

• 1:32:15Joe Rogan?

  Yo.

• 1:32:16Speaker 01

  The noses, the nose was a little bit rounder on the end, but uh that was a really good rendition. But yeah, his, his eyes just, his eyes almost came out to here on the temple.

• 1:32:26Joe Rogan?

  Wow. And that would freak me out.

• 1:32:30Speaker 01

  It, it freaked me out. I mean, honestly, I'm not an easy guy to get, you know, to get freaked out, but that really put that like you, you.

• 1:32:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:37Speaker 01

  You just saw an alligator pop up out of the water kind of thing.

• 1:32:39Joe Rogan?

  Right. So when you tell him, go to dreamland, it says, I'm not going to go where those murderers and barbarians are. And then what happens?

• 1:32:48Speaker 01

  Um, and he said, uh, no. So I, I was like, well, where else can I possibly to, point him to? Cause I'm like, I don't know any metallurgists or whatever. So I'm, I'm thinking to him, to me, to myself and I'm, and I relayed to him, I said, well, I'm taking college cla- classes down in the, you know, in the city of Vegas, you know, Las Vegas. Uh, at the community college, but I have a, a geophysical professor that I'm, I'm, you know, taking a class from. Maybe he has a metallurgist friend and he's like.

• 1:33:17Joe Rogan?

  So you're thinking at this time though, it's a metal.

• 1:33:19Speaker 01

  I am, yes.

• 1:33:20Joe Rogan?

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• 1:34:02Joe Rogan?

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• 1:34:46Joe Rogan?

  It's a 50% smaller hub, so it'll fit under most bed frames. It features 20% faster temperature relief with nine times more biometric sensors in the cover. It starts at just $1,999, the lowest starting price Eight Sleep has ever offered. And if that's not enough, this pod cools each side of the bed independently from 55 to 110 degrees Fahrenheit. Use code ROGAN at eightsleep.com/rogan for up to $200 off the Pod 6. Right, because you're thinking it's some kind of like titanium, some type of...

• 1:35:24Speaker 01

  Right, right. And there's also when he...

• 1:35:26Joe Rogan?

  This is the 3D image with the craft?

• 1:35:28Speaker 01

  That is almost as spot on as I've ever seen. That is about it right there. That's almost exactly what I saw resting on the desert floor.

• 1:35:36Joe Rogan?

  And so you're trying to find different people that you can connect this being to?

• 1:35:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:42Joe Rogan?

  And what is it saying to you while you're...

• 1:35:44Speaker 01

  He thought that that was a good idea, I think, or he was like, hmm. I mean, he had that kind of hmm. And he wanted to take action, so he just... He doesn't really even say goodbye. He just kind of turns and off he goes back to his craft. And I'm thinking, well, okay. And I get back in the car. And sometime during that conversation with this entity, I remembered looking over at my friends in the car, and they had the weirdest look on their face, like they're all zonked out. Um, totally zombied, um, like they couldn't even, they were just drooling on themselves.

• 1:36:17Joe Rogan?

  Were, were they just because they were flabbergasted? Or was it because something was going on?

• 1:36:23Speaker 01

  Well, I figured out that maybe he wa- it was done by this entity because, uh, none of them seemed to even remember the, the incident. Only a few people seems to remember that we stopped, that we had talked to somebody on the roadway, but it was mainly the people that were in the back of the convoy.

• 1:36:38Joe Rogan?

  So they didn't see it up close like you did?

• 1:36:40Speaker 01

  Right, like we did.

• 1:36:41Joe Rogan?

  So how far away would they be?

• 1:36:43Speaker 01

  Uh, they'd probably be a good, uh, two car lengths behind us.

• 1:36:46Joe Rogan?

  That's still enough to detect whether or not someone looks blue though, right?

• 1:36:50Speaker 01

  Correct, and that's probably what they saw, but you, you know me, I'm kind of wide and I'm, I'm big. I was very muscular back then.

• 1:36:56Joe Rogan?

  And you're standing in front of this thing?

• 1:36:57Speaker 01

  So they'd have a difficult time because this guy stood about a good half foot shorter than me. And so they probably could see his arms from time to time, maybe catch a glimpse of his face or something. Um, so they probably didn't get a very good view because, you know, if you're looking at me, I'm standing right next to my door.

• 1:37:12Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:37:12Speaker 01

  And they're behind me kind of almost off, ob- obfuscated by just the angle that they're looking at him. So it could, all the windows are tinted in those vehicles.

• 1:37:22Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:37:23Speaker 01

  And they can't just see through the windows right to whatever's on the left-hand side.

• 1:37:26Joe Rogan?

  And the people that were in the car with you, you feel like something happened to them that like froze them?

• 1:37:33Speaker 01

  They did look like that, yeah. Like you said, just a look of just utter like, uh, you know, like.

• 1:37:37Joe Rogan?

  The guy who said it has no, he has no ears, does that guy have a recollection?

• 1:37:41Speaker 01

  That guy they can't find.

• 1:37:43Joe Rogan?

  They can't find him?

• 1:37:44Speaker 01

  No, they, I've, I've tried, I was asked by the UEP Task Force, David Grush, to reach out to these folks, the people in the car. I got ahold of one, got ahold of him on LinkedIn, and we started talking. And, uh, you know, just, hey, how's the wife, how's the kids, that kind of stuff.

• 1:37:58Joe Rogan?

  How about that UFO we met?

• 1:38:00Speaker 01

  And as soon as I did that, the guy just disappears and ghosts me. And I can't, I, I don't know what happened, but he was the ranking guy in the car. Uh, the guy that was the passenger, nobody could seem to find him because they did try to verify the people in the car and I gave the names. And the young lady, uh, that was off to my right, I don't know if they contacted her, but I've heard from other people that were part of this background investigation about my story. They found two people that verified my story. And I don't know who they are, they, they've been told to keep their mouths shut by somebody. And I, and I'm kind of pissed about that, but, um... I think James Fox knows who they are and knows exactly who told him to shut up as

• 1:38:44Speaker 01

  well, but.

• 1:38:46Joe Rogan?

  What was that incident where James Fox and you were on a show? What's that?

• 1:38:52Speaker 01

  Well, I shouldn't have said that James Fox knows the guy who told him to shut up because I'm not sure if that's.

• 1:38:56Joe Rogan?

  You think you might know. So, this thing, does it tell you why it needs a tritium? It just says it needs it to fix its craft?

• 1:39:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, along with that, this is the other part that was telepathic, when he mentions this metal and the part that is.

• 1:39:12Joe Rogan?

  But it's not metal, right? Do we think it's not metal or do you think maybe it's a metal that we don't have?

• 1:39:17Speaker 01

  I think it's something or an alloy that we don't particularly make a lot of and/or just can't make. But when he spoke about this, the telepathic image was almost like he opened a Sears catalog in my head that had all the specs for this part that he was needing fixed. And it was the strangest thing, it like described some of the nano channeling of electrical and electromagnetic stuff that was flowing through it that caused these toroidal energies to emanate on both sides of this piece of the equipment.

• 1:39:50Joe Rogan?

  So you, because it was describing it to you, you all of a sudden had access to all this information, like downloaded into your head?

• 1:39:58Speaker 01

  It was like me, if you and I were telepathic and we were talking about a science project.

• 1:40:02Joe Rogan?

  And he just uploaded all the information?

• 1:40:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I could just give you all that instead of talking it out. That's what he did.

• 1:40:07Joe Rogan?

  Did you then try to talk to someone and relay that information and like, download it?

• 1:40:13Speaker 01

  I've had, well, once, because in the, in the, in the forum, we have scientists and stuff like that that, yes, were very interested to get me in a room and talk to me about this. I had people from DARPA wanting to talk to me, people from, people from threats, departments all over the place that wanted to know more. And even when I talked to Jack Serafati and Gary Nolan about this stuff.

• 1:40:43Speaker 01

  I was telling them things before they even opened their mouth about like when I talked to Gary Nolan, I just said, you got that part and you know that it has that that nano size atomic level layering that can't be reproduced unless you actually physically are putting these atoms one at a time next to each other. And he's like, yeah, yeah, that's it, you know. So I'm telling him this and he already knew. But I that was the first thing. And so that's why I knew that what I'd been given in my head, he was giving me that that high sign that yes, that's exactly what I analyzed is that piece of material I had. It sounds just like what this guy described to you and gave to you telepathically, that there's these really minute little things that create toroidal forces, they're

• 1:41:28Speaker 01

  doing things at a very small level. And then I talked to Jack Seraphati later, and he's got all these fantastical physics equations about how things work. And I'm looking through his documents and no, I can't do the math, but I can understand what he's doing with it. And I just flat out asked him, I said, so the smaller you get, because there's always that resistance level when it comes to, you know, putting in energy, energy and then losing it because due to, you know, atrophy and all these other, or is that the right word for it? Anyway, the whole thing was just that when you get smaller, it actually reverses itself, is that now you get even more power out of things. If you have a small

• 1:42:09Speaker 01

  enough energy source that works at a very, it's kind of like miniaturizing a fusion device of some kind.

• 1:42:18Joe Rogan?

  And so did you talk to someone from DARPA? Did you, you said these people wanted to talk to you?

• 1:42:23Speaker 01

  I emailed back and forth. I gave them what information I could, but

• 1:42:25Joe Rogan?

  They didn't want to interview you? They wanted to just email?

• 1:42:27Speaker 01

  Um, at the time, that's the way it went. Yeah. I've had a couple of meetings, though, with different places that I can't discuss, but they they did talk to me. Yes.

• 1:42:40Joe Rogan?

  And is that information still in your head?

• 1:42:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:43Joe Rogan?

  So does it seem like a memory? Or what does it seem like in your head?

• 1:42:48Speaker 01

  To me, it's like a very clear, like, this is

• 1:42:54Speaker 01

  It's it's just like a picture that never goes away.

• 1:42:56Joe Rogan?

  Could you draw that picture if someone gave you a pad and a pen?

• 1:42:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've already done it, yeah.

• 1:43:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Um, is that available online? Could someone see that?

• 1:43:03Speaker 01

  Um, I I don't know if I pulled that down off the top secret network. Um, but I can reproduce it. All I did was just recreate it in like a a PowerPoint, you know, draw thing, but uh, yeah.

• 1:43:15Joe Rogan?

  But does it remain in your head like normal memory? Like, you know, like you learn certain things in school and they stay in your head?

• 1:43:21Speaker 01

  The telepathy was, it felt absolutely normal. I mean, I, there was no headache, there's no dizziness, no buzzing.

• 1:43:26Joe Rogan?

  What I mean is, is the memory the same as a regular memory? Or is it clear?

• 1:43:30Speaker 01

  No, I remember it as just being part of the conversation, just like a normal conversation. Yes, that's what it feels like.

• 1:43:36Joe Rogan?

  But it just somehow or another, in that conversation, he put this information in your head?

• 1:43:40Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:43:41Joe Rogan?

  And then it just leaves?

• 1:43:44Speaker 01

  And then he leaves when he he realizes that, you know, maybe there's some other venues. Maybe I, you know, me mentioning that there might be a metallurgist on staff somewhere uh, that maybe that prompted him to think, oh, yeah, maybe I should go research this or that, and then maybe I'll find somebody that I could talk to. Um, something like that may have happened.

• 1:44:02Joe Rogan?

  Did you get a sense of where this thing was from?

• 1:44:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, there was a star map from that day, but it also relates to the lunch hour. After we started going back up to Black Mountain, I had a very strong compunction to go eat my lunch outside, even though it was deathly cold. And uh, I I don't know what prompted me to do that again. Maybe he was giving me a telepathic message, but after I walked about a hundred and fifty feet down the road, the dirt road, from the top of Mount, Black Mountain, I don't remember what happened after that. All I have are two images that keep on flashing back. I remember seeing the schoolhouse from about a hundred and fifty feet above, or two hundred feet above the schoolhouse. I remember looking at the rooftop. And the other, only other memory is I've got this star map in my head. And David Grush made me reproduce that on a PowerPoint slide.

• 1:44:50Speaker 01

  And um, I I handed that into him because I have no idea what the, what it was. But he's like, do you understand what this is? And I was like, no, I have no idea. He's like, do you know what star constellations are? I said, I I know what the Big Dipper is, that's about it. And he's like, this is the constellation Leo. And I'm like, oh, I didn't know that. And uh, so he's like, yeah, this is a really close rendition of that. And I'm like, well, that's kind of cool that I could reproduce it just out of my head. And um, and not even know what the heck it was. Uh, but I did know it was a star system.

• 1:45:24Joe Rogan?

  And for some reason, you just felt compelled to draw this particular star system?

• 1:45:28Speaker 01

  Well, just after, uh, David Grush asked me to, yes.

• 1:45:31Joe Rogan?

  And was there a specific planet in that star system?

• 1:45:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, the red, the red star, that's kinda like, you know, on the, there's a part of the Leo system that has like this, like, very sharp turn into it. I guess it's like, it looks like a nose or, or part of a triangle. And at the, the tip of that is the red star, and it's reticuli, I think. Um, but anyway, that, that one seemed to.

• 1:45:55Joe Rogan?

  That's what they always say about aliens, they're reticuli.

• 1:45:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then, uh, the strangest thing about this, this is what I'm talking about when it comes to telepathy, when you're sharing that mind space, there's some residue memory there. Because, uh, Dave kept pressing me on it, and he said, "Can you tell me about the red star?" And at first, I'm like, "Well, no," and I was like, and all of a sudden, some memory came back, and I was like, "Holy crap. Yeah, that's where he's from. That's, that's his home star, uh, system." And he came from there. That's his home. And, and then we just went on from there, and he said, "Did you know that they've actually just now discovered a few years ago that the, there's exoplanets around that star?" And I was like, "No, I had no idea." So, uh, all these things started coming together at that point.

• 1:46:43Speaker 01

  And, uh, that's when they started saying, "Okay, well, we're gonna do some more vetting." And within about a month or so, they were bringing me to Congress, and everything else happened after that.

• 1:46:54Joe Rogan?

  Now,

• 1:46:56Joe Rogan?

  what is the rest of your life like after that day?

• 1:46:59Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:46:59Joe Rogan?

  So, you have life before you experienced this creature, and then now you know that this is a thing.

• 1:47:07Speaker 01

  It's a thing, yep. And, um, it changed me. Um,

• 1:47:13Speaker 01

  how do you explain this? If you could imagine the entire human race, you and me, you don't have to talk to me, but you can feel my presence. You can feel who I am, my personality, and share in all of that. And then imagine that by millions.

• 1:47:31Speaker 01

  The entire planet, you can actually commune with them. It brings with that a level of civility in the control of your thoughts because right now, we don't read each other's minds. So our minds are like, oh, look at that girl. Oh, look at that, you know, the sports over here, there's a football game on. We're so distracted, but this guy's, when I was engaged with him telepathically, it was like civility to the maximum. It was like very courteous. He waited for me to say, he'd, he'd talk. And it was like, just like we do, we have certain etiquette. But on top of that, there was this part of him that he left me with that was part of

• 1:48:14Speaker 01

  the community of the consciousness that he is able to feel all the time. And that has never left me is that there's a community of consciousness out there that

• 1:48:25Speaker 01

  when they've been living for so many years with this sort of ability, it has changed them for the better because their minds are under control finally. Their emotions aren't running them like you were talking about addictions and things like this. They don't run their lives like that anymore because of it. And if you do, they end up on a criminal list somewhere, I would imagine. But there was such a, ever since then, that's that feeling of peacefulness and civility is what I've strived for, never has left me, never has left me.

• 1:48:56Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:49:00Joe Rogan?

  It stays with you, but what, like, what is your experience trying to relay these thoughts in this experience? That had to be weird in the sense that like, it's very hard to believe. I mean, I believe you, but it's very, it's, it's one of those things where, you know, you, what, you talk to an alien? Like that's, most people are gonna think you're ridiculous.

• 1:49:21Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, and honestly, that's why I need people to back me up on it because this is the thing that we're, we're, we're trying to do with the whistleblowers. We all kind of know each other, just like Lo would tell you, or not Lo, but just like Logan would tell you, just that. I call them loafers short sometimes. It's a slip up.

• 1:49:40Joe Rogan?

  Understandable.

• 1:49:40Speaker 01

  Anyway, so anyway, we get to talking about stuff, but we don't know what's going on daily with each other. It's like I've brought whistleblowers forward to Congress since I went forward. But I don't know their lives. I don't talk to them every day like I do some of them. And it's a strange thing, but the more we seem to be coming out now that we've got these few weeks now where we've got folks like, you know, Jake Barber and folks like that coming forward. Now I'm starting to piece things together in my mind because now I'm hearing his side of the story because I didn't want to be part of the retrievals. Well, guess what? He was on it. And he's telling that part and I'm like, oh, no wonder they did that to me. And oh, that's, that makes sense. You know, now I'm making those conclusions now because of what he's said. And but then if you try to put us all in a room,

• 1:50:24Speaker 01

  we're all deathly scared that, you know, some jerk is going to come out of the Department of Defense and shoot us all. Or do a drone strike on us and kill us all and just have done with it and then get on with their lives again. So you've got this problem here with us coming forward in a group.

• 1:50:41Joe Rogan?

  You're, you're really worried that much that someone would try to take you out?

• 1:50:44Speaker 01

  They've already messed with my clearance. They've already shown me that they can break into my car on the NSA campus. They're letting me know. They were trying to intimidate me.

• 1:50:54Joe Rogan?

  Because they don't want you talking about this?

• 1:50:55Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:50:56Joe Rogan?

  But do you know why they don't want you talking about this?

• 1:50:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:00Joe Rogan?

  Why?

• 1:51:00Speaker 01

  It's because they know that what they have done, that there are some parts of it that were really bad decisions in the long run. And they don't want anybody to crack open any part of this because they know it's going to cause questions to happen. And they're going to get put on the spot. Okay. So you finally are coming clean on the fact that we've got NHI here. But we've got other whistleblowers that have these concerns. That's what they're going to have to face.

• 1:51:25Joe Rogan?

  And when you say bad decisions, like what do you mean by bad decisions?

• 1:51:28Speaker 01

  Well, think about it. If Roswell did happen, what'd they do? They chop up some, you know? Think about it. You'd have etiquette if it was a Russian craft that fell. You'd catalog every part of that crash site and you'd repatriate the patriot, uh, take the, uh, the dead bodies to where they came from. We give them back to the Russians in honor. And here we are. We've got a civilization just crashed there in Roswell and look at what kind of crap we did to them. And we took all their stuff like it was some kind of a treasure trove. The, and now we own it? Hell no. You're talking about a craft that was manufactured on another part of the galaxy or something that they can't explain. Nobody knows where

• 1:52:09Speaker 01

  it came from. And here they are treating these people like they're, they're just some kind of a lab experiment. Let's chop him up a little more, you know? And then, you know, if they ever got approached by that, the, the people that came to look for them afterwards, I, I wouldn't want to be the person that answered them, well, I'm sorry, we chopped up your buddy.

• 1:52:27Speaker 02

  We had an interesting talk about this. Um, there's a video online where it shows like some gray kind of strung up and they're asking him questions and whatever. And I asked, I was asking him, I said, if you were in NHI and you saw that, and this, this is what the humans are broadcasting, sorry. And, and, and this is what the humans are broadcasting. I said, I'd be like, yo, they got Jimmy. Look what they're doing to Jimmy.

• 1:52:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:52:58Speaker 02

  It's on. We're going to Earth. You know, we're gonna go get Jimmy back.

• 1:53:01Joe Rogan?

  But that video of the alien, that's fake, right? The video where they're interrogating

• 1:53:05Speaker 02

  I truly believe it is fake because like we've

• 1:53:07Joe Rogan?

  It looks so fake.

• 1:53:08Speaker 02

  Everybody says

• 1:53:09Speaker 01

  Looks like a puppet.

• 1:53:10Speaker 02

  They talk, yeah, they talk telepathically and here he is. Oh, here's this voice coming out to whatever.

• 1:53:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:16Speaker 02

  I'm, yeah, it's, it's, but we're, we've always assumed that they, they've got the same type of, some type of emotions a lot like us, but maybe they're much more controlled, much more refined, you know? Kind of like how we can, not that I'm saying

• 1:53:32Joe Rogan?

  Kind of like us now versus us 50,000 years ago.

• 1:53:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:35Speaker 01

  Well, honestly, when I had the telepathic experience. It was very difficult for me to distinguish what emotions and feelings were coming from me as opposed to him. It was very obvious when he felt disgusted about going to ask about things because I was like, well, I'm not disgusted at him. And I had that, that, that ability to go, it's not me feeling that, it must be coming from him.

• 1:53:55Joe Rogan?

  Right, but it was your emotions.

• 1:53:57Speaker 01

  Right, but everything else felt like we were sharing, literally, not only the thoughts, but the emotions that went along with it. It was a true sharing of a mind space. And he felt just like me. His inner voice is just like my inner voice. His feelings are just like our feelings. He feels sadness, he feels all the things that I do.

• 1:54:14Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. What is the general consensus in the people on the program about Roswell?

• 1:54:20Speaker 01

  They don't like talking about it. I think that was where they, they probably are, are trying to bury it even amongst themselves because they know they made some very bad mistakes about that first confrontation that could have been a lot better than it would have happened.

• 1:54:34Joe Rogan?

  So the general consensus is that this is a real event?

• 1:54:37Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:54:39Joe Rogan?

  And they don't like talking about it, but does everybody sort of agree? Or are there people that are dissenting? Do they have dissenting opinions about whether or not it was a crash UFO?

• 1:54:50Speaker 01

  I've heard people say, I don't want to talk about it.

• 1:54:53Joe Rogan?

  They don't want to talk about it, but that it wasn't ours?

• 1:54:56Speaker 01

  Right. They know, well, the, the only thing, this is again, when we talk about the intel analysts and everybody else that was on that forum, it's, it's, it's totally weird that you can go through all these different things as an intel analyst and say, okay, it's not China. All right, it's not them. All right, let's look at Russia, anything, nope, it's not Russian. Is it one of ours? Well, hell no, it's not one of ours. Well, who the heck is it then?

• 1:55:20Joe Rogan?

  Does anybody talk about it? Is there anybody that has shared information about Roswell to you?

• 1:55:26Speaker 01

  Um, yeah.

• 1:55:29Joe Rogan?

  Is there anything that you could talk about?

• 1:55:31Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:55:32Joe Rogan?

  No?

• 1:55:33Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:55:34Joe Rogan?

  It's all top secret?

• 1:55:35Speaker 01

  I, I just gave the person the confidence that I would not mention it.

• 1:55:37Joe Rogan?

  Got it, got it. And Logan, have you had personal experiences other than the one when you were a child?

• 1:55:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, um, but I didn't know what I was seeing, but, you know, like, um, After the program came out, I mean, not came out, but after James Fox finished editing everything. Hmm. He sends me, he said, well, you haven't seen everything put together, so here you go. And, you know, tell me if you, you know, don't like the way you look or whatever. And I'm going through it and he starts showing, I see the stuff about Calvin, the Calvin Scotland image. Yes, yes. Have you seen that one? Yes. So that image was taken, if I remember correctly, in August nineteen ninety. Pull that image up, Jamie. Yeah. Thank you. You, you could just type in Calvin UFO, whatever.

• 1:56:28Speaker 02

  So I'm go, I had just cross-trained from, yeah, that one. I had just cross-trained from maintenance into intelligence and I was going to my first intel assignment. And I'm flying from Philadelphia to Frankfurt, Germany, to Rhine-Main Air Base. Somewhere between Iceland and Scotland, this thing is zipping around in the, in the clouds, doing this ziggy zaggy thing. I don't know what it was doing, but it was doing this, the sun was just coming up and I'm eating a Philly cheesesteak and the other guy is with me, he's eating a hoagie and the

• 1:57:11Speaker 02

  other guy that's standing up over the top of where, I'm like, anybody know what that is? And they're like, dude, what is that? And then all of a sudden in my head, I'm like, oh, this is my first intel assignment. I'm gonna get clued into some cool ass shit. But I don't know what the hell that is, but I'm just thinking. And it looks just like that. It looks just like that. And the way it was moving in the clouds, it was like, because of the shadow, it was like going from like that color to like dark and then light again as it was moving in. And it would go into a cloud on one vector and come out on another vector. And I'm like, what, what is that? So didn't know what was going on, so I called James back. I was like, dude, dude, where is this? Talk to me. You know, we're all excited. And he goes, explain to me everything.

• 1:57:55Speaker 02

  And what happened was I got to my unit and I talked to them and I go, we have a weapons tactics guy, he's, you know, they're the best of the best and they're leading the group. And I was like, so what is that thing out there? And he goes. I have no idea what you're talking about. Now, this is in January of nineteen ninety. That picture is August in nineteen ninety. And what I didn't realize was that the Belgian wave, I don't know if you were familiar with that, a whole bunch of triangular devices were seen over Belgium for almost a whole year. So they just call it the Belgian wave. Police officers saw it. They launched F-16s after them, whatever.

• 1:58:33Joe Rogan?

  Are there photographs of that at all?

• 1:58:34Speaker 02

  Um, no, but the general that's in charge actually gave a briefing to everybody and showed what the F-16 radar was seeing. And I guess every time they tried to get close to it, it would just pull away just far enough, you know, that they couldn't catch it. And then when they would try to cage it in the radar system, it would move to the left, you know, it was playing with them. So, but I didn't know any of that. So I just kind of was like, yeah, okay, I'm stupid. Maybe it was part of my imagination, but what I saw as a kid kept coming back into my head. So dead storm happens, whatever. And I'm at my base and British AWACS shows up. And they're looking at me and I still had my accent, my British accent.

• 1:59:19Speaker 02

  They're looking at me going, what are you flying with the Yanks for? And I'll go, what do you mean? They said, you know, and I told them my, my family thing. They said, why don't you come fly with us? I'm like, sure, let me ask my boss. My boss says, you ain't got nothing going on. Go fly with them. So we're flying around and finally I go, I go, hey, guys, uh, what's that thing in the sky that does the ziggy zaggy thing? Do you know what I'm talking about? And they're like, you know. And I was like, no, I don't know. Don't play with me. And they're like, come on, look, you know. And then finally they pull out this tape and they plug it in and it shows Europe, all the aircraft flying around. And you see this thing go through the middle of it real fast, like all the other aircraft, the sweep of the radar,

• 2:00:04Speaker 02

  you're just seeing these minute movements. This thing is like, it's gone. And I was like, who's that? And they go, you know. I was like, look, stop playing with me, you know.

• 2:00:15Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:00:15Speaker 02

  Come to find out, they said, well, that's your ASR-71. And I was like, well, that ain't him. And they're like, okay. And then he looks at the other guy and he said, show them the other one. And they show me this radar scoping in, and this time there's a target in the middle of, not in the middle of the screen, but off to the side. It was like, could have been like east Germany or whatever. But every sweep of the radar, he was somewhere else. And I was like, that guy, I was so excited, I said, that MF right there, yeah, who, who, who's that guy, you know? And they go, you know? I was like, look, stop this, I don't know. And they finally said, we don't know either. They said, we just assumed it was you Americans playing with us.

• 2:00:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what happens a lot of times.

• 2:00:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, we don't know who this guy is.

• 2:00:59Speaker 01

  Our adversaries think that too. Everything's America if they can't explain it.

• 2:01:02Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:01:02Joe Rogan?

  Did you see the Trump administration address the drones today?

• 2:01:07Speaker 02

  We heard about it, but I didn't.

• 2:01:09Speaker 01

  Yes, I had a friend tell me, they made an announcement, but we were getting in the car at the time.

• 2:01:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Essentially, they said it was all ours, and there was some sort of scanning that was done, that was approved, and the other ones were hobbyists. And there was some sort of test that they were doing, but they were saying that it's ours, which is very, the whole thing stinks.

• 2:01:31Speaker 02

  It does, because I actually had.

• 2:01:33Speaker 01

  It's a poor explanation.

• 2:01:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:36Speaker 02

  I actually had a person that was up there, and she said, one of those things came down low and slow over our house, and she said it had the sound of a helicopter. So she was like, her and her husband were like, oh, you know, it's a helicopter. But then all of a sudden, they realized, she said, Mr. Logan, were you ever aircrew? I said, yeah, I was in special ops, and I flew in helicopters, and da, da, da, da. And she goes, when it came down low, it had the sound of a helicopter, but you couldn't feel it. And I go, huh? She goes, you know when you can feel the rotor washing, it's hitting you in your chest, like, bo, bo, bo, bo? She said, there was none of that. She said it came down slow, low over our house, and then it went back up, and then it, she said it looked like it went back into formation with something else.

• 2:02:20Speaker 02

  And she said, that's not any drone I know of. And she said, it, it sounded like the, the actual noise of the helicopter, and several of the other noises from the drones were all pre-recorded, just to make them sound like they were conventional aircraft.

• 2:02:36Speaker 01

  And those are the same things I've been hearing too, because a lot of people are shoving videos at me a lot, and their descriptions of things. And some of the stuff, you know, looked like maybe it could be a spotlight from a helicopter, and then when the light moved, then you could finally see the helicopter behind the light. Then there was these other ones that was like.

• 2:02:55Speaker 01

  This is really weird.

• 2:02:56Joe Rogan?

  My friend Mark saw one. Mark Norman, what, how did he describe it, Jamie? He said it was triangular, right?

• 2:03:02Speaker 04

  Uh, I just remember him saying SUV sized.

• 2:03:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he said it was the size of an SUV. He said it was triangular. He said it moved really fast.

• 2:03:09Speaker 02

  So, when they initially came out, they said, "Oh, they're all manned," all right? Uh, I think it was John Kirby that was the, the speaker. And I used to work at the FAA, so my first thing was, "Well, if they're manned, you just call them up and say, 'Cut it out.'"

• 2:03:24Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:03:24Speaker 02

  Simple.

• 2:03:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:03:25Speaker 02

  But it kept going on. And then later on, there was a report that DHS said, "Oh, one of the drones has come down in a mall parking lot." But DHS has assessed it's just a regular drone. So when you hear that, what are you thinking? DJI Mavic, something small, whatever.

• 2:03:46Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:03:46Speaker 02

  Doing... Someone on X is, is on a train going by that exact same spot. And they show a drone next to two police cars, and this thing is as big as the police car. And I'm like, so I have no way of confirming if that's the, what it, what it really was.

• 2:04:04Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:04:04Speaker 02

  But I have no reason to believe that this particular person was leaving. He said, he goes, "I don't know what you guys are thinking, but I'm passing that mall right now, and take a look." And it's like a, maybe a 30-second clip or something, and you see this thing. It's as big as the SUVs. So...

• 2:04:21Joe Rogan?

  And what does it look like?

• 2:04:22Speaker 02

  It, it looked like a, kinda like a gondola with, uh, like, large, uh, uh, um, blades on the, on the four corners. And...

• 2:04:33Joe Rogan?

  So it looks like a very large, conventional drone?

• 2:04:36Speaker 02

  Very large, conventional drone. And so I'm sitting there thinking, "Was this a test that nobody knew about? Was, you know, what, what is going on for this to..." And nobody got any answers, so...

• 2:04:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, the other thing that is they stay in the sky for like five hours at a time.

• 2:04:53Speaker 01

  That's what puzzles me, is that, that takes industrial-sized, uh, power generation.

• 2:04:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, what are you using? Like, what is that thing using? Jamie, can you see the, if, right, cold fusion? Can you find the, uh, video of the disclosure today? It was, uh...

• 2:05:11Speaker 02

  While he's talking about the disclosure, the one thing I do want to mention is when I talked to the AWACS group, I thought it was kind of interesting because I said,

• 2:05:21Speaker 02

  "So, how many know about this?" And he goes, "The whole squadron knows about it." And I was like, "What?" He said, "Yeah, but we just don't talk about it because people lose their jobs over this." And I was like...

• 2:05:32Joe Rogan?

  I've heard that as well.

• 2:05:33Speaker 02

  And I was like, "So, this is an AWACS?" And I said, "Am I to assume that if you're a British AWACS, then American AWACS can see it, French AWACS can see it, NATO AWACS can see it?" And he just kind of, "Yeah."

• 2:05:46Joe Rogan?

  And everybody doesn't know what it is, no one's talking about it.

• 2:05:48Speaker 02

  And everybody just says, "It's got to be America."

• 2:05:50Joe Rogan?

  Let's hear what this lady says.

• 2:05:52Speaker 04

  And before I turn to questions, I do have news directly from the President of the United States that was just shared with me in the Oval Office, from President Trump directly, an update on the New Jersey drones. After research and study, the drones that were flying over New Jersey in large numbers were authorized to be flown by the FAA for research and various other reasons. Many of these drones were also hobbyists, recreational, and private individuals that enjoy flying drones. In meantime, in time, it got worse due to curiosity. This was not the enemy. A statement from the President of the United States to start this briefing with some news.

• 2:06:37Speaker 01

  The part that gets me is the hobbyists being included in that is like...

• 2:06:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, they definitely were hobbyists too, because there was hobbyists in Austin around that time. There was a ton of drones. It's like people were like, "Whoa, it's a drone party." Everybody was like, everybody with drones was just flying them around.

• 2:06:53Speaker 01

  Okay, well, that kind of makes sense.

• 2:06:54Joe Rogan?

  It kind of makes sense because there was so much drone activity.

• 2:06:56Speaker 02

  Here's the thing that I, I got to look at it from an analyst's point of view. The first thing that came up, I was like, "So, they knew this the whole time? Why couldn't they have said that from the very beginning?"

• 2:07:08Joe Rogan?

  It's a different administration.

• 2:07:09Speaker 02

  Right?

• 2:07:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:07:10Speaker 02

  And then two, why were they required to have a SCIF briefing on drones?

• 2:07:18Speaker 02

  Nobody's ever answered that. At one point, congress guys all went into a skiff and got a skiff briefing on drones.

• 2:07:24Joe Rogan?

  And then they didn't have a press conference about the results.

• 2:07:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:07:27Joe Rogan?

  Which would have been, could it be that they wanted to see what happens when you fly things over a metropolitan area and you fly a bunch of drones over highly populated

• 2:07:38Speaker 02

  I would think that.

• 2:07:39Joe Rogan?

  Parts of the country.

• 2:07:40Speaker 01

  There's only a few reasons why I would say that you include both federal and hobbyist drones in any kind of an activity. And there's only very few.

• 2:07:48Joe Rogan?

  Well, the hobbyists are including themselves, right?

• 2:07:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that could just be that they're accidentally there. But the feds, what were they doing?

• 2:07:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:07:55Joe Rogan?

  And why would they have a skiff?

• 2:07:57Speaker 02

  That's, that's my point.

• 2:07:58Joe Rogan?

  Explain a skiff to people that don't know what we're talking about.

• 2:08:01Speaker 02

  A skiff is a place for information above secret. And it's a special compartmented intelligence facility where we can go in there and talk about things that are above.

• 2:08:10Joe Rogan?

  And there's no recording devices?

• 2:08:12Speaker 02

  Right. No phones, no nothing, just, right. But the thing is this. I mean, most of us that are in the intelligence community or whatever, we're gonna look at it and say, something's not quite right here. Because this is something domestic happening over the US. So would it really require a skiff? You know?

• 2:08:31Joe Rogan?

  Especially if it's authorized.

• 2:08:33Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:08:34Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 2:08:34Speaker 02

  You know. So would it really require that level of security to, to go on and have these guys talk? It just doesn't make any sense.

• 2:08:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. The, the federal presence, to me, dictates the fact that if this was innocuous and unclassified, like you're saying, why was there not a press conference that described it and said the hobbyists are out there flying too? And they're, they're just kind of interfering with our, our lanes where we go and fly normally, uh, between one place to another. That never came out. So why was the skiff even mentioned? That's something that they did release in the press is that they were, were receiving briefings that were in a classified environment.

• 2:09:19Speaker 02

  And then there's still the, yeah, there's still the, the problem with these drones popping up all over the world, especially over milit- ...families and that part's not been addressed. It's just the other stuff that they, you know.

• 2:09:32Joe Rogan?

  Right, that was Wright Patterson Air Force Base had to get closed down, right?

• 2:09:36Speaker 02

  Wright Patterson, Langley Air Force Base, there's others. And then there's reports of stuff in Australia, there's reports of things in other places in the world.

• 2:09:43Joe Rogan?

  Let me ask you this and tell me if this makes sense. If you were the government and you knew that there were non-human intelligence that were operating vehicles above our cities, would a way to sort of obfuscate that, to launch a bunch of our drones as well? And have some shit that you could explain and then tell people, "Don't worry about it, it was just drones, it was our drones." Like, "See, here's our drone, here's a drone that crashed, look, it's got propellers, normal drone." Yeah, it's big, but it's normal.

• 2:10:12Speaker 02

  You have no idea how many people have said that already.

• 2:10:16Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:10:16Speaker 02

  Yes, you're going in the right direction.

• 2:10:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, you've heard that one, you've heard the other theory, they're looking for a dirty nuke.

• 2:10:22Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:10:23Speaker 01

  They're looking for.

• 2:10:24Joe Rogan?

  That one scared the shit out of me.

• 2:10:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did too, honestly, I thought that's what it was about. But then they have what, looking for HVTs like anti-terrorists or looking for terrorist groups? Because we were, I think at that time, it went through the press that there was over a thousand of these, you know, jihadists that were in our midsts. We don't know where they're at.

• 2:10:43Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:10:44Speaker 01

  You know, kind of thing, maybe they're looking for those. And those are, so those are just some of the theories that you come up with, with this kind of a scenario.

• 2:10:49Speaker 02

  And then there was the guy, the congressman that said, "Oh, there's an Iranian mothership out there." And we were like, "What?", you know.

• 2:10:56Joe Rogan?

  In the ocean.

• 2:10:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, none of this stuff was making any sense. And then you have to wonder, where was he getting his intel? Because if it's that crappy.

• 2:11:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:11:08Speaker 02

  Those people need to be fired.

• 2:11:09Speaker 01

  Well, you gotta take another thing into the calculus, and that is, wasn't this worldwide? I mean, then we got reports from China even, that this stuff was happening.

• 2:11:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:11:18Speaker 01

  And they don't just have hobbyists flying stuff around in their country.

• 2:11:21Joe Rogan?

  Maybe they don't.

• 2:11:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:11:23Joe Rogan?

  Maybe they have a much tighter control over their media, so they don't have to obfuscate, they don't have to.

• 2:11:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:29Joe Rogan?

  Trick us.

• 2:11:30Speaker 01

  That's the one part that I find very confusing is just like if it's happening in Europe and China and all these other places, what really is going on?

• 2:11:36Speaker 02

  You could have just did a NOTAM and just said, hey, we're gonna be doing a test in this area. Not, don't wanna scare anybody, whatever, but we're just gonna test in this area.

• 2:11:44Joe Rogan?

  If, if it's just ours.

• 2:11:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:11:46Joe Rogan?

  Right, but if it's not ours and there's a bunch of shit flying around there and we wanna confuse people, wouldn't you have a bunch of conventional drones and fly them low over cities so people could clearly see them?

• 2:11:57Speaker 01

  Could have been done a totally different way and not had all this hubbub going on. So, yeah, you're right.

• 2:12:01Speaker 02

  But why, why would you, if you know the truth, why would you leave the Americans afraid of what's flying over their head?

• 2:12:09Joe Rogan?

  I think there's still, look, assuming you guys are completely accurate about all this, if they have had this information for a long time, I would assume that there's a lot of pressure to never release it. I think there's probably a lot of problems with lying to Congress, lying to Congress about budgets and allocation of resources for these programs that are all top secret, like how have you done this, what have you done, who's responsible, who made that call? Is that even legal? And who are you, that if you've been in contact with non-human intelligence and you have retrieved crafts, who are you to keep that from the rest of the world?

• 2:12:48Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:12:48Speaker 02

  And speak for the American government for, for that if you're not officially a part of it.

• 2:12:52Joe Rogan?

  Right, especially if you're, you're not officially, I mean, you don't have the clearance to do what you're doing.

• 2:12:59Speaker 01

  Right, I mean, they're making decisions for the entire human race, not just America, but the whole race. And that's what my beef was, when, in the film, when James Fox asked me about that, well, why are you doing it, you know, kind of a thing? And I was like, well, I feel like this is the right of every man, woman, and child on the face of the earth to know the truth about, we're not alone. That has nothing to do with the weapon systems and the classified parts that I know of. But the fact that we're not alone, shouldn't that be something that everybody should be invited to, to make their own decision on?

• 2:13:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I would imagine that, but I would also imagine if you wanted to keep your job and if you have a high intelligence clearance and you're working for the government and you're a long time career employee of the government, you want to keep moving up the ladder and keep your, keep your fucking mouth shut.

• 2:13:43Speaker 01

  Right, and that's where people have to make that decision on their own that, you know, have they seen enough malfeasance to want to report it or not?

• 2:13:52Joe Rogan?

  And they're gonna throw their whole life into a tizzy if they do that.

• 2:13:55Speaker 01

  And that's what happened to me, yep.

• 2:13:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and what has it been like since then? Have you gotten support from more people than you thought you would, or have more people thrown you under the bus than you expected?

• 2:14:06Speaker 01

  Um, I actually feel more support than I expected. Um, I've made it through, it's not been easy financially for me. Um, when they messed with my clearance, I haven't gotten the job since, I've been out of work since August of last year, um, so that's not been fun.

• 2:14:25Joe Rogan?

  Was there a reason why they said they messed with your clearance?

• 2:14:28Speaker 01

  No, they just made it sound like, oh, it's just an administrative error. Sorry, uh, yeah, we still have your clearance here and everybody that wants to employ me, I've had very, quite a few employers want to hire me, and they say, yeah, we can see your clearance over here, it looks like DOD is trying to reactivate it, but month by month by month, it just sits there. And they won't pass it to the employer. Somebody is just sitting there going, oh, another request for Jason. Bye, delete. That's what's happening.

• 2:15:01Joe Rogan?

  Because you've stepped out of line.

• 2:15:02Speaker 01

  That's what it feels like to me.

• 2:15:03Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Logan, have you experienced the same kind of situation?

• 2:15:07Speaker 02

  No, no. I'm, he's in a different class than me, he's, he's an official whistleblower. Me, I just stepped forward, um, to say that I don't think, I, we need the government to do this, I think we as the public need to do this, and I created an app to do that. I was hoping that-

• 2:15:27Joe Rogan?

  What is your app?

• 2:15:28Speaker 02

  My app is called Fena. Um, it's a, an app to report UAP paranormal encrypted like events, and the idea is that we can get multiple people to see the same thing recorded, and then look for the outliers and get people like Jacques Vallée and Dr. Eric Davis and Hal Putoff and others, the gray beards, to look at it and say, okay, here's what we can figure out, you know, Gary Nolan and all these people. Let's get them the information that they need and then after we get them the information they need, let's get it out to academia so we can have kind of like a more organized approach to finding out what's going on. I wanted people to to use my app on the drones.

• 2:16:08Speaker 02

  Some people did, but not enough and I I had a little bit of a problem because when I put it out on Android, there was only one other app that was close to it that was in the same name. Go back there, there's like almost 10 apps with the same name, so people didn't know what was going on.

• 2:16:25Speaker 01

  They're getting confused. But anyway, to answer your question about the support, yes, I do get a lot of support. There's people like, you know, Stephen Diener, there's Digby Fornow and Tom Thompson, there's UFO Sarah that's on X. There's a ton of people that I can mention, let alone how much support James Fox is throwing at me. That's what's getting me through this.

• 2:16:48Joe Rogan?

  How many different versions of these life forms have been discussed with you?

• 2:16:55Speaker 01

  On mission, I can say three I know of. Two mainly, tall whites, grays. Those are the main ones.

• 2:17:03Joe Rogan?

  Are the tall whites like this one that you encountered, the one with the big eyes?

• 2:17:07Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, like that.

• 2:17:08Joe Rogan?

  But that wasn't that tall, you said?

• 2:17:09Speaker 01

  Right, but apparently according, have you seen the video from Mr. Hall, the guy that was supposed to be the weatherman and actually interfaced with the tall whites?

• 2:17:18Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:17:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I totally believe.

• 2:17:20Joe Rogan?

  I've seen too much.

• 2:17:21Speaker 01

  But anyway, he says he was.

• 2:17:23Joe Rogan?

  Goes in and out of my brain.

• 2:17:24Speaker 01

  Well, I can verify the fact that what he said about his position there as a weatherman, that he could walk around anywhere he wanted to, because that's what the base commander told me when I got my orientation drive-through on Dreamland and he mentioned the weather site and that that person does not, can walk wherever they want to.

• 2:17:40Joe Rogan?

  And what was, what did they report?

• 2:17:43Speaker 01

  Well, just, what, Mr. Hall?

• 2:17:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, he says that the tall whites go through a growth cycle where they're kind of normal height. Um, but they're very long-lived. They live like eight hundred years or more. But when they start getting older, then they're they get very tall, like seven, eight foot tall. And then they begin to, you know, uh, their bodies begin to not function properly and they die. Um, kinda like somebody who has a growth problem.

• 2:18:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh, like a giant.

• 2:18:09Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yeah. And their their their vital organs just can't pump enough anymore.

• 2:18:13Speaker 02

  Kind of la- large dogs that die early because of their heart problem?

• 2:18:17Speaker 01

  Right. So the guy that I saw was probably a young person, you know, probably only like seventy years old or something like that, which is kind of an adolescent to them or a young adult.

• 2:18:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 2:18:28Speaker 01

  So, um.

• 2:18:30Joe Rogan?

  And this was explained to him through some sort of telepathy?

• 2:18:33Speaker 01

  Well, he would actually, as the weather, if you listen to that video, I really encourage you to do that. But Mr. Hall, um, also published some books on it. But he claims that when he was there at at this one place that, you know, I can verify it's there, that on the other side of that that mountain or that hillside, that's where the the trail goes off into where the tall whites are apparently have been given an annex of land to live where they they don't get bothered. I mean, it's a part of the military complex.

• 2:19:02Joe Rogan?

  Is that on Google Earth?

• 2:19:04Speaker 01

  There is parts of it, yeah.

• 2:19:05Joe Rogan?

  Can we like look where the tall whites live?

• 2:19:08Speaker 01

  I tried to, yeah. I'd have to get my laptop out, but yeah.

• 2:19:11Joe Rogan?

  It what does it look like?

• 2:19:12Speaker 01

  Um, it does look like there's some circular patterns. It does look like there's, uh, some possibility that there are some like doors inside the mountain that is that it looks like it's camouflage to look like it's part of the mountainside.

• 2:19:25Joe Rogan?

  So the idea is that that's a base for them when they visit us?

• 2:19:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, because apparently, according to Mr. Hall, they come here for a five-year stint, I guess, and they have to refuel. And then they have another ship come through and and the other one's refuelled fuelled and it's it takes off.

• 2:19:41Joe Rogan?

  So they're closer in the evolutionary chain to us than some of the other ones. Is that?

• 2:19:47Speaker 01

  That's my assumption. Yeah. Now, the other third type that got mentioned on mission was reptilians. But every time that they were mentioned, it was really quickly hushed up by whoever else was on the other end of the line. Shut up. Don't say that, is what they were doing.

• 2:20:01Joe Rogan?

  They don't want to talk about the reptilian.

• 2:20:03Speaker 01

  They don't want to talk about the reptilian presence at all. They they would talk about the tall whites and the grays being in the lab of environments. You know, not a lot, but some, but these reptilians, it was like, nobody wanted to talk about it.

• 2:20:16Joe Rogan?

  Was there any sort of an explanation that anybody give you of why they don't want to talk about it?

• 2:20:21Speaker 01

  No, the only time I got any inkling was that when I, you know, was out of the program and other people started to talk to me about all the different, you know, things. And they're like, well, how many races are there? I don't know. But, um, some people talked about the reptilians and they're like, do you realize that these are evil? And I had to listen to that.

• 2:20:38Speaker 02

  And, and the thing is, we don't know if it's because of their parents, you know, you, you would assume something that's reptilian is maybe a demon or whatever. And a Nordic where the blonde haired, blue eyed is considered like an angel. Or is it, that's just our perception? But those, that's what you hear.

• 2:20:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, every, every reptile here is evil. Right? You ever seen a Komodo dragon eat a goat? It's horrific.

• 2:21:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:21:03Joe Rogan?

  They're fucking monsters. Every single reptile is a monster.

• 2:21:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:21:07Joe Rogan?

  That's here. There's not one cuddly reptile you can hang out with, cuddles with you, he's, it brings you your newspaper in the morning. Oh.

• 2:21:14Speaker 02

  I, I thought that was funny because the lady was like, my snake sleeps with me every night. And the guy says, no, it's laying next to you because it's sizing you up for eventually a chance when it's gonna eat you.

• 2:21:25Joe Rogan?

  One day it's gonna eat you. You have a monster that you feed, as long as you keep feeding, it won't eat you. Yeah. People with like pythons are pests.

• 2:21:33Speaker 01

  Well, to give it some credibility, I did do some research after that person talked to me. Cause I did see that there is a, a reptilian race that is very malign like that. And they even have, according to what I read, this one race has a penchant for blood for some reason. It's like a shark frenzy with them.

• 2:21:52Joe Rogan?

  Like a real reptile.

• 2:21:53Speaker 01

  It's a euphoric experience for them. Yeah, a reptilian race that does that.

• 2:21:57Joe Rogan?

  It just makes you wonder about human history, about the stories of demons and angels. And this is what Tucker Carlson believes, that they've always been here and that this idea that they're coming from another planet is not, it's not that simple.

• 2:22:11Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:22:12Joe Rogan?

  That's more complicated. And he thinks that it's the, the demons and the angels from the Bible.

• 2:22:18Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:22:18Speaker 02

  So they could be seen that way, but here's, here's something that someone, we were just talking and throwing ideas at each other. He said, if humans have actually been on the earth, like say this long.

• 2:22:29Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:22:29Speaker 02

  All right. When the dinosaurs were here, they were like

• 2:22:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:33Speaker 02

  This long. So is it possible that some of them could have evolved to a certain point? Know that something bad's gonna happen? They're so advanced, they go off-world and then they come back and go, hey, what happened here?

• 2:22:44Joe Rogan?

  Or is there a place where the the the Yucatan impact never happens? And so those dinosaurs eventually evolved to become super intelligent?

• 2:22:55Speaker 02

  Yes, cuz remember back in the day, there used to be Omni Magazine?

• 2:22:59Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:23:00Speaker 02

  Alright, one of those hypotheses was if mammals like us hadn't shown up, what would we have looked like? And it shows a lizard walking upright and doing, you know, everyday things that

• 2:23:13Joe Rogan?

  But wouldn't you think that it would have done that already? Like, they were around for like a hundred million years, two hundred million years.

• 2:23:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:23:20Joe Rogan?

  Like, in that time period, they didn't evolve at all. Those fuckers, they just kept eating each other the same way.

• 2:23:25Speaker 02

  That's the assumption.

• 2:23:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:23:27Speaker 02

  Now, we're going back and looking at all kinds of different things, like they said that maybe it wasn't the asteroid that took out the dinosaurs, maybe it was a combination of things like there was some kind of mutation, something that they drank in the water and it's and all at the same time, maybe the asteroid was the the catalyst to start it. And then all these other things that happened after, you know, the fireball, the all the other stuff. But if there was a group that was so advanced that they could sit there and go, that's an asteroid, it's gonna kick our butt, we better get off-world. Or, let's go under, you know, cuz there's some lizard-looking things that can go underwater and do their thing.

• 2:24:04Speaker 01

  Live underground, that kind of thing, yeah.

• 2:24:06Speaker 02

  Cuz I I I heard a story.

• 2:24:08Speaker 01

  Well, I know. But anyway.

• 2:24:10Joe Rogan?

  God, you heard a story?

• 2:24:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:24:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:24:12Speaker 02

  I I I just heard a story that someone just said, imagine this.

• 2:24:18Speaker 02

  The aliens are coming down, there's another society here that lives on the ground, highly advanced. And they like to keep things the way they are, so they're gonna direct all their energy to make sure that the alien, the NHI that we're seeing are paying attention to us and not them. And I was like.

• 2:24:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, but see, for me, it I, the way I look at all this reptilian presence is just like I've read in the Bible. You know, that

• 2:24:45Speaker 01

  For some reason, I feel like this whole experience I've had in my life actually increased my faith in the Bible and God. Because even in the Bible, it mentions the serpents and that Lucifer being the head of that that genre or species did cause the fall of mankind and all this other good stuff. So to me, I feel like I've I've I just got experienced with the reality of the fact that these things exist. And even though they try to keep it all hidden, that I got exposed to the program where I could see some of it. And I think that there's some credence also to that side of it as well. So to give credence to the the whole thing is just to say that I I

• 2:25:28Speaker 01

  that's what I believe, but at the same time, I wasn't there.

• 2:25:31Joe Rogan?

  This even thing that you talked about initially?

• 2:25:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:25:34Joe Rogan?

  This creature, what did that thing look like?

• 2:25:36Speaker 01

  Uh, they didn't really describe the even.

• 2:25:40Joe Rogan?

  They didn't?

• 2:25:40Speaker 01

  Nope, they just said that it was just like them reporting on something for that day. So it was kind of like a daily thing with them.

• 2:25:47Joe Rogan?

  So they had already described it, you just weren't privy to it? And so they were just going on the assumption that everybody who's talking about it knows?

• 2:25:53Speaker 01

  It's kind of like, you know, somebody asked me what you look like today. You know, after the first time they asked me, they're never going to ask me about that again. So it was like that was just not a topic.

• 2:26:01Joe Rogan?

  So this even, was it here against its will? Was it here to interact with us?

• 2:26:07Speaker 01

  It sounded like it was imprisoned.

• 2:26:08Joe Rogan?

  Imprisoned?

• 2:26:09Speaker 01

  It sounded like an interrogation result is what it sounded like.

• 2:26:12Speaker 02

  If you hear any of the stories, they make it sound like he was one of the survivors and he got stuck here. And he started working with us and eventually he died in the

• 2:26:24Speaker 01

  He eventually died, yes.

• 2:26:25Speaker 02

  Natural causes. But it's all speculation because we're in, you know, we're hearing all this stuff, but we don't have any way to verify.

• 2:26:32Joe Rogan?

  And how many other stories that are similar to that? Like the interactions and the a thing being here with us, have you heard?

• 2:26:42Speaker 01

  Um, there's another one that actually escaped from captivity.

• 2:26:46Joe Rogan?

  Yo.

• 2:26:47Speaker 01

  But he actually convinced his interpreter or his interrogator to help him escape. Because the program was trying to get him to open a portal for them. And they wanted the control of it. And the guy, eventually, the interrogator actually pushed him into the portal. And had surreptitiously given him back to his own home world. And it ended that guy's career, probably.

• 2:27:15Joe Rogan?

  A portal?

• 2:27:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:27:16Joe Rogan?

  And what kind of portal are we talking about?

• 2:27:19Speaker 01

  You're talking like, it's kind of like a way of opening a wormhole that you can control.

• 2:27:24Joe Rogan?

  And did they say where this thing was accomplished and how?

• 2:27:27Speaker 01

  I think it was also in Reticuli. I think it was another being from the Reticuli system.

• 2:27:31Joe Rogan?

  Right, but the portal, where's this portal? How was it accomplished?

• 2:27:35Speaker 01

  Oh, um, the portal, I thought, um, I was trying to think, where was that call from and to? Because you always get the originating location, but you're always trying to figure out who the distant end is. Um, I'm trying to think. All the parameters, because you have to write down the phone number and everything stuff sometimes.

• 2:27:55Speaker 01

  It sounded like it might have been on the Pacific Northwest. Or the west coast area is where this was taking place.

• 2:28:03Joe Rogan?

  And did they say how the portal was made? Was this made by them?

• 2:28:08Speaker 01

  They had recovered parts of one. And they were trying to complete it. And they were trying to get this being to help them complete the portal. So that they could use it for their advantage.

• 2:28:20Joe Rogan?

  Like a Stargate?

• 2:28:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:28:21Joe Rogan?

  Like a real Stargate?

• 2:28:22Speaker 01

  Correct, yeah.

• 2:28:23Speaker 02

  Remember what I was telling you, that story about, you know, let's go get Jimmy?

• 2:28:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:27Speaker 02

  The rumor that I heard surrounding this was that he convinced his interpreter that if he didn't get back and if thing, if, if, uh, he didn't get home, really bad things were gonna happen. And that guy just kind of felt like, you know, hey, I, I, I got kids and whatever.

• 2:28:49Joe Rogan?

  Right, I don't want society to destroy.

• 2:28:51Speaker 01

  Plus, he had some compassion for him. Because he's been working with him for a while.

• 2:28:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, so when he got the chance, he was just like. You know, get him in there.

• 2:29:00Speaker 01

  I can't remember all the things. I think they had to keep this this entity tied to a chair or something so he couldn't do anything. And that's why he needed the help of the the guy that was the interpreter. He had to push him into the portal on the chair that he was tied to.

• 2:29:13Speaker 02

  I I so the rumors I heard, I didn't hear the portal part. I just heard that he somehow he was able to get him outside. And just as he got him outside, they just showed up above and did a snatch and grab and he was gone. And next thing you know, he's out there.

• 2:29:30Joe Rogan?

  So there's different versions of the story.

• 2:29:31Speaker 01

  Right, there's different versions. I'm just telling you that's the only other one I've heard that you're you're mentioning that you wanted me to describe that. Was there any other entities that we had captured and had something similar? That's the only other story I've heard.

• 2:29:41Joe Rogan?

  Do you know the Richard Nixon story?

• 2:29:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, where he went with Jackie Gleason?

• 2:29:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:29:45Joe Rogan?

  Do you think that's bullshit?

• 2:29:47Speaker 01

  Actually, not for that timeframe, no. I could see Jackie Gleason and Richard Nixon soaking some suds down.

• 2:29:54Joe Rogan?

  That that I definitely could say. And also Jackie Gleason did become obsessed with UFOs afterwards and even had a house built the shape of a UFO.

• 2:30:01Speaker 02

  I remember that, yeah.

• 2:30:02Joe Rogan?

  It's a wild looking house that was apparently for sale recently.

• 2:30:05Speaker 01

  Yes, really?

• 2:30:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:30:07Speaker 01

  It wasn't in Palisades, was it?

• 2:30:09Joe Rogan?

  It was in up, no, no, it was in upstate New York. It did look like it's a very bizarre looking house. Like you see, you're like, why would Jackie Gleason build that? Want to see it?

• 2:30:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:30:18Joe Rogan?

  You look at it, you're like, why would Jackie Gleason build a house like this? But then you hear that story, you go, well, maybe that's why he did it. Maybe because the word was that he had become obsessed with UFOs at one point in his life. And this story came out, I think as told by his wife.

• 2:30:32Speaker 01

  Oh, wow, yeah.

• 2:30:34Joe Rogan?

  This was Jackie Gleason's house.

• 2:30:37Joe Rogan?

  Which is so weird.

• 2:30:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:30:38Joe Rogan?

  Spaceship like house. Very strange. Very fucking strange.

• 2:30:42Speaker 02

  For someone to do something like that.

• 2:30:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:45Speaker 02

  I would have to believe they had something profound.

• 2:30:48Joe Rogan?

  Or they were me. Because I would build that. I've never had a UFO experience. I'd build that fucking house. I love that house.

• 2:30:57Speaker 01

  I kinda like those too. It's like when I'm down at Navar Beach where I have a home down there in Florida, but there's a UFO house down there.

• 2:31:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 2:31:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it looks just like a UFO.

• 2:31:08Joe Rogan?

  I think there's a UFO house in California somewhere. I think there's one in the hills above Studio City. I think there's one. It's like a famous UFO house. I think they filmed things there. I think it's like on stilts and it looks like a UFO.

• 2:31:23Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 2:31:25Joe Rogan?

  I mean, people are always gonna want things that look like that. It doesn't necessarily mean that the Jackie Gleason, yeah, that one. That's in the Hollywood Hills.

• 2:31:32Speaker 02

  It's called the chemosphere.

• 2:31:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that dope.

• 2:31:34Speaker 02

  That one actually is pretty cool.

• 2:31:35Joe Rogan?

  Fucking dope.

• 2:31:36Speaker 01

  That, yeah.

• 2:31:37Joe Rogan?

  That house is cool as shit.

• 2:31:38Speaker 02

  But I'd be terrified living in California with earthquakes and it being on those things.

• 2:31:42Joe Rogan?

  Stupid place to live.

• 2:31:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:31:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you wouldn't want it as your main house.

• 2:31:46Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 2:31:47Joe Rogan?

  That's a house you visit every now and then when you wanna get drunk.

• 2:31:49Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:31:49Joe Rogan?

  Let's get drunk at the UFO house.

• 2:31:51Speaker 01

  Or impress your friends.

• 2:31:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, have a party. Have a little cocktail party at the UFO house.

• 2:31:55Speaker 01

  There you go. That's exactly how I treat it.

• 2:31:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's like fun.

• 2:31:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:31:59Joe Rogan?

  But, um, so the grays, the tall whites, the reptilians, but then there's the mantis too, right?

• 2:32:06Speaker 01

  Right, and those are things, honestly, I've had, we've only discussed a part of my life. I've had experiences all the way from three years old on, and even after I was out of the program and I was just working in Florida, and I've seen the Delta or triangular craft like three times. And one of those times was my daughter, when we were coming back from her gymnastics class, pretty, well, just before I retired.

• 2:32:36Joe Rogan?

  And what did that look like?

• 2:32:37Speaker 01

  It was like the size of a three-story home, but it was, you know, pointed, and on the top it was kinda angular, kinda like what you see the F-117 look like where it's angular. It kinda looked like that. It had pale grayish-white lights on the underside, on the cardinal corners, and then in the back, there was a flat panel that looked like a grill where there was a light, there was like these stack of straight-up lights like fluorescent lights are, that would go to the right and then to the left.

• 2:33:12Joe Rogan?

  And did it make noise?

• 2:33:13Speaker 01

  Zero noise. Zero noise.

• 2:33:15Joe Rogan?

  And it was just flying through the air?

• 2:33:16Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:33:17Joe Rogan?

  Fast, slow?

• 2:33:18Speaker 01

  It was going fairly slow. And then when it banked, it turned, and then that's when it sped up a little bit, and then I lost it in the trees. Then I saw it two other times. One time was going to work. And the other time was in 2022 when I reached out to some of the program folks that I used to know. To tell them, hey, there's a space on the top secret J-Wish computers that they're talking about UFOs. And I pointed them directly to this, this delta shaped craft. Because I was like, I know what this is and I know what they know it is. So I was trying to let them know that you need to look at this, this imagery that we have our hands on.

• 2:34:01Speaker 01

  And ends up they ended up showing up with it. And they showed me flying in flight. They followed me home the next night. And, and it was right there above my car and I'm looking, kind of like.

• 2:34:14Joe Rogan?

  So this is ours?

• 2:34:16Speaker 01

  It's ours. Yeah. It's a hybrid or it's ours. I've always told people.

• 2:34:19Joe Rogan?

  A hybrid, meaning what?

• 2:34:21Speaker 01

  Well, here it is. The, the whole thing is that in the nineties, I know they were on mission with me at Wright-Patt. And we saw a delta shaped craft. It had different nacelles at the time or engines at the time. That's what a nacelle is. And then, um.

• 2:34:36Speaker 01

  So this new version looked very similar in shape. However, it had these glowing orbs that looked like they were part of the propulsion system. So they had upgraded part of it. And now it looked fully functional and operational because back in the nineties it was not.

• 2:34:50Joe Rogan?

  So this is the other thing that I keep hearing is that we are in possession of technology that is many, many years ahead of anything that anybody could anticipate.

• 2:34:59Speaker 01

  And, and when we get that, I call that exotic material and or whatever you want to call it. But we get our hands on that in about every, you know, 10 years, we get a breakthrough on it. Because we do study it and sometimes somebody is smart enough to figure something out. And the next thing you know, we've got fiber optics. We've got cell phones. We've got transistors. Now we're nanotech, you know. Where'd all this stuff come from? Is some of this part of this NHI presence and that they've taken a patent that was developed inside the program? And now these people from Lockheed and Northrop are patenting this stuff and then making lots of money on the outside.

• 2:35:38Joe Rogan?

  Other than the, the beings that we described, are there other ones that people have talked about?

• 2:35:44Speaker 01

  Yes, I've actually, like I said, as a young adult, I probably encountered more of a spiritual sense, but they were Nordic looking. You know, platinum hair, kind of a look, blue eyes.

• 2:35:56Speaker 02

  Like the tall whites are different?

• 2:35:57Speaker 01

  No, different.

• 2:35:58Speaker 02

  How many documented different species have you heard of?

• 2:36:05Speaker 01

  If I'm talking about my mission days, it's only that handful. And then if you're talking about other things that I've had other people tell me about, I think I've heard enough from enough people that I trust that I think our concept of life in this universe is totally off. I think there are literally trillions of other life forms. And anything you can imagine is probably true.

• 2:36:29Speaker 02

  That's an interesting thing, because I always, one of the things that I wondered when we used to talk in the task force was if this is the, you know, we're the alpha species here on Earth. So what if what we're seeing is the alpha species from another planet? Think about what other critters and other things are running around. And maybe if we see something wild and crazy over here, what if it's somebody, you know, who's got a dog like psycho? You know, all of a sudden, you know, something goes, you're like, what was that? You know, we just don't know. So the, you know, we can speculate and everything and build all these hypotheses up, but we're constantly looking to to add to what we think is out there so we can figure out going, here's what we figured out, here's what we haven't.

• 2:37:14Joe Rogan?

  Now, is the conventional explanation that these things are from other planets? Or is there speculation that they're interdimensional? Is there speculation that they live in the water?

• 2:37:25Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:37:26Speaker 01

  All of that. All the above. I would say that the way they appear and disappear is interdimensionalism. That, and I've had other friends that have had encounters that have talked to me that they could see a larger craft, and then it turned, and all of a sudden, there was a door opening and a creature coming out. And yet, this other part of the craft seemed to be like a long way off. So it's like interdimensionally large. However, you know, when it turns, it's not like our four dimensional world.

• 2:38:01Joe Rogan?

  I've heard of a craft that you go inside of it, and it looks like a couple hundred feet on the outside, you go inside of it, it's bigger than a football field.

• 2:38:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, Doctor Who style.

• 2:38:10Speaker 01

  Because it's going into this other dimension, and there's actually more space to that. Yes, and that's what this guy was describing.

• 2:38:18Speaker 02

  So I, we've, we've all heard that, um, too. The, the other thing too about the dimensional thing. Because of the speeds that they're moving at, it could be that they're moving so fast. It looks like they slipped into a dimension. Because sometimes you'll see these things go off into the sky and then do some weird whatever. And then they're gone. And then other times, what you're seeing is this thing is moving slowly and then all of a sudden, it's gone. And you're like, did it just slip into a different dimension or is that they're?

• 2:38:46Joe Rogan?

  Is it speed so fast that you can't track it with your eye?

• 2:38:50Speaker 02

  I, I have heard, yes, I have heard people tell me that they were seeing some of these things moving at sixteen thousand miles per hour plus and were still accelerating. I've never been able to verify that, obviously, but these are some people that seem to know what they're talking about and, you know, they just kind of come forward. I, I would just have, when I was on the task force, I would just get a phone call and just say, hey, are you Mr. Logan? Oh, yeah. They're like, uh, uh, check your email in about five minutes or, you know, hey, there's something I want to tell you. And I have no way of verifying it, but the idea would be to put it in a little box somewhere to say, hey, this is an unknown.

• 2:39:33Speaker 02

  And maybe someone like Jason would come along and verify what this guy just told me or verify what I just saw in a video that maybe he can corroborate on. We would look at primarily for the task force, we were looking at the safety of the pilots because they were having so many problems and they kept filling out all those safety reports, you know? So we're like, but, and I remember asking, uh, um, the task force director, Jay Strad, and I was like, what about all the commercial stuff that's going on? And he says, I want to incorporate that, but I can't because with their stuff, we don't have a good chain of custody on what's happening. And if someone's manipulating the data with the stuff that's coming directly from the pilots, we can't.

• 2:40:17Speaker 02

  So I was always looking at what the pilots told me they saw. And then me and several others in and outside of the task force were looking through the commercial stuff to see if we could find the same exact thing. Cause that's how I, I, when I first got it pulled into the task force, it was. I talked about my app and I was gonna do this just to figure out, just something for a hobby when I get older, you know, when I grow up. And then Lou Elizondo came out with Leslie Kean and their story. And I went and found Lou and I said, if you're serious about what you're talking about, stop by my office, because I just wanted to see if he could do it.

• 2:40:59Speaker 02

  And he showed up with the gang and they presented their story about the pilots and everything. And we were like, okay. And I said, well, what about this weird thing over here? And they're like, how do you know about that? And I was like, I got friends in low places, kinda like you. And they looked at me and they said, don't worry, that one's, we've been told that something mundane is nothing important. And I was like, I beg to differ. And I was able to show them a video of the same thing, seeing somewhere in the world through civilian stuff.

• 2:41:41Speaker 02

  And I remember when they were leaving after they heard everything, and all of a sudden Lou just turns back around and goes, you're in. And I was like, in what? And he goes, you'll see. And next thing you know, I was in the task force. So, and for me, I was like, oh, my life just came full circle. I saw some things and now I'm actually gonna investigate these things? And so that's how I kinda pressed ahead. And then, just to add on top of that, remember I said, when Jason showed up, I called David Grush, right? But the funny thing was, I hadn't even been in the task force that long, and I was trying to look at things. All of a sudden, I get a phone call, and I'm like, yeah, how can I help you?

• 2:42:25Speaker 02

  And he goes, my name is David Grush. Are you serious about all this stuff you're tracking? And I go, yeah. He goes, I want in. And I was like, huh? And he goes, I think I have something that can help with you guys. And I was like, well, I'm not in charge of this. I gotta introduce you to, you know, Stratton and Company. And so I introduced him, and every now and then, I would say hi to him and we'd talk and he'd call me on the phone. But... Who else, I mean, I'm going to Stratton, I'm going to all the people on the task force. And he pops up and I'm like, oh, my God, what do you do with that?

• 2:43:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:43:06Speaker 02

  I don't have the resources.

• 2:43:07Speaker 01

  I didn't get invited like he did.

• 2:43:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I didn't have the resources to check out everything that he did.

• 2:43:11Joe Rogan?

  One of the things that we keep hearing, Christopher Mellon's talked about this, many people talked about this, is there is evidence that's been classified that is high resolution video and photographs that are very distinct, very different than some of the blurry stuff that we've seen. Have you guys seen any of that?

• 2:43:30Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:43:31Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:43:31Joe Rogan?

  You have. Can you talk about it?

• 2:43:33Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 2:43:35Speaker 02

  All I can say is that there's some really, really good, clear, high def stuff out there that.

• 2:43:45Speaker 01

  Can't explain.

• 2:43:46Speaker 02

  You can't explain, you're just sitting there going.

• 2:43:48Speaker 01

  We went through the whole rigmarole on these objects. You had people on one side of the fence, people on the other side of the fence, people in the middle of it all. And nobody could draw a conclusion.

• 2:43:59Speaker 02

  The first thing we're trying to do is go, okay, could that be Russia? Could that be China? Okay, who else is there? And you go through your whole list. Then you, once you put that off to the side, you go through now, what are we observing? And some of the things, you know, like Lou said, the five observables plus the six, which is, you know, the psychological effect on that. But you're kind of going through those, looking for all those. They're not always there.

• 2:44:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:44:24Speaker 02

  But they're super clear and some of them, you're like, how, I mean, you look at it and you just keep saying, how can that be?

• 2:44:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, because you've got, also, you've got to understand that these are professionals. We had imagery analysts go through looking for false positive, like, camera artifacts that look like something they're not.

• 2:44:46Joe Rogan?

  They can do AI analysis of images now, they're pretty accurate.

• 2:44:49Speaker 01

  Exactly, and we had a whole database of all these false positives to go through and it wasn't matching any of that. We were going through the imagery analysis of the video, looking for flaws like artifacts, couldn't find anything.

• 2:45:01Joe Rogan?

  And you're talking about high resolution video.

• 2:45:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:45:03Joe Rogan?

  Like, it's much clearer than the stuff we're seeing?

• 2:45:05Speaker 01

  Exactly, yeah.

• 2:45:06Joe Rogan?

  And what's the resistance to that stuff getting out there to the general public?

• 2:45:10Speaker 01

  It's just classification.

• 2:45:11Speaker 02

  It could be where it's at, those type things, it could be anything.

• 2:45:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, because one of the things that I think the community really gets hung up on when it comes to the intel community is that. The classification is one thing, but when you don't know if something is a threat, you automatically assign a value to that as being credible or not credible. And right now, they can't draw a conclusion, therefore, they don't want to declassify it, therefore, it will not be divulged in public because of those reasons.

• 2:45:36Speaker 02

  I was telling him, in my, my first thing as an intel analyst, to go, friend or foe.

• 2:45:44Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:45:45Speaker 02

  You know, and then the next thing I'm trying to do is, you know, break down all the characteristics and, and we would sit there and you're looking, I, I, when I first joined the task force, I remember there was a group that I used to walk in their office because they're, they're smarter than me, you know, so I want to make sure I'm getting the best input. And the first couple of times I showed up, everybody pulled out the aluminum hats, they started playing the X-Files music, and I'm like, okay, guys, but what about this? And I'd throw it out there and they're like, oh, yeah, what is that? After about the fourth or fifth visit, no more music, no more, I'd come in, everybody's already hunched over what I've already sent them, they're like, yeah, what is that?

• 2:46:27Speaker 02

  Because we would, Jay Striden asked just to, he said, lean forward and get out there and, and use an all-source approach to looking and gathering all the information on what we can find. So I would capture like, I'd call up a drone guy and say, I need you to come to my office, take a look at this. And he would look at it and he's like, holy crap, how big is that? What? How? And I was like, yeah, I, I need answers. Can you take a look? And he would, Logan, I'll get back to you. Couple of weeks later, he's like, dude, I, I, I got nothing. And then, you know, we would have an imagery guy look at it and, you know, sometimes they could sit there and say, dude, that's this.

• 2:47:10Joe Rogan?

  If you had one piece of footage or image to release, would there be one that really stands out? Like if you said, if they said, look, you could release this one, just one of these classified, high-resolution videos, is there one that really stands out as being unique?

• 2:47:26Speaker 01

  It's a group for me. It's a group of them.

• 2:47:29Joe Rogan?

  Can you describe any of it?

• 2:47:31Speaker 02

  I think Lou Elizondo described one. Um, there's the story that he talks about, uh, I think Commander Fravor discusses about the, the torpedo.

• 2:47:43Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 2:47:44Speaker 02

  Do you remember that one? Where he's, uh, the story is that, um, they were launching torpedoes and, you know, they blew the bowels on the torpedo. The torpedo came up to the top and they, the divers came to hook the torpedo. And just as they were about to, to hook it, something very large, like an island, came up underneath them.

• 2:48:05Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 2:48:06Speaker 02

  Alright, um, so I get this weird call. And it's, you, you have to play devil's advocate, cause when you, when you're trying to tell guys that they were, they were the observer. And you're trying to say, hey, well, you know, it could have been this. Some of these guys get downright angry. They're pissed because you're questioning their ability to discern what's going on. They were there, you weren't, you know, so you have to-

• 2:48:33Speaker 01

  And they've seen something life changing.

• 2:48:34Speaker 02

  Right, so you have to be careful because after a while, nobody will want to talk to you again because, oh, Logan's an asshole because he, you know.

• 2:48:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:48:41Speaker 02

  So you're very careful. So this guy just sends me this thing and I'm looking at it and I just, maybe a couple of weeks before I'd heard this story with Fravor and, and Elizondo. So I'm like, what is this? And there was this, all I can say was there was something very, very, very large.

• 2:49:01Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:49:01Speaker 02

  Moving under the water, but not, not too far that you can't see it. But it's moving under the water and it's passing objects that I know are really large and this thing is bigger than them.

• 2:49:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:49:16Speaker 02

  And I'm sitting there going-

• 2:49:17Speaker 01

  Well, I think they mentioned one of them and that was the oil tanker one.

• 2:49:21Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah.

• 2:49:22Speaker 01

  That one confused the hell out of me and there were people saying it was just a shadow.

• 2:49:26Joe Rogan?

  That's the one that was going five hundred knots?

• 2:49:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was going pretty quick, yeah. But some people were saying, oh, it's just some kind of a round object that's, the sun is, it's just making a large.

• 2:49:35Speaker 02

  The shadow of the moon going across the face of the earth.

• 2:49:37Speaker 01

  But then, somebody did another analysis and they looked at the wave tops and they're like, this is not a shadow, otherwise we show up on the wave tops. This is under the surface and this thing.

• 2:49:46Speaker 02

  And it's disturbing the water underneath it.

• 2:49:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, this thing made this oil ta- oil rig out in the ocean look, it dwarfed it. I mean, this was like three or four times bigger.

• 2:49:54Joe Rogan?

  So the speculation is that they're hiding in plain sight in the water? Or is the speculation that there's always been a civilization down there?

• 2:50:01Speaker 01

  I would, I'd say in my, in my opinion.

• 2:50:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:50:05Speaker 01

  No, in my opinion, I would say that they are, have been here a very long time and that the cer- underneath the ocean and underneath the ground are two of the best places to stay hidden. And out of the way of prying eyes.

• 2:50:19Speaker 02

  You go out in the boonies somewhere or you go, like, there's a whole bunch of activity going around, around Puerto Rico.

• 2:50:26Joe Rogan?

  Puerto Rico?

• 2:50:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a whole bunch of activity that is going on, um, you know, where the Nimitz incident accident happened, alright? So, there's things that we wanna verify, cause you hear stories about things, like, you've heard of the Baltic anomaly.

• 2:50:41Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:50:41Speaker 02

  Alright, so the first thing you wanna know is, well, first of all, is it actually there? Once you've verified that it's there, you wanna know.

• 2:50:49Speaker 01

  What's its composition?

• 2:50:50Speaker 02

  What's its composition, all those things. There's another thing on there, you can look it up right now, it's called the Cuban Atlantis. It's supposed to be thirteen nautical miles west of Cuba, alright? And it looks like there's triangles and everything else there, and I'm like, from the moment that thing came out, I've never heard anybody else say, "We've been there, we've checked it out, we've verified it, it's there, let's send a dive team down." The thing on the right there, you know.

• 2:51:19Speaker 01

  That's it, yeah.

• 2:51:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:51:20Joe Rogan?

  That's under the water?

• 2:51:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:51:22Speaker 02

  That's supposedly thirteen miles off the coast of Cuba. Well, that's what we wanna know.

• 2:51:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:51:27Speaker 02

  We wanna verify that.

• 2:51:28Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:51:29Speaker 02

  You know?

• 2:51:30Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:51:30Joe Rogan?

  Whatever that is.

• 2:51:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, where's the National Geographic documentary on that?

• 2:51:33Joe Rogan?

  Is that, wait a minute, is that for real?

• 2:51:36Speaker 02

  Just the one.

• 2:51:37Joe Rogan?

  Why have I never even seen that before?

• 2:51:38Speaker 02

  All the other ones I'm thinking are fake, but this one up top right there where the thing is.

• 2:51:42Joe Rogan?

  Click on that, Jamie?

• 2:51:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:51:44Joe Rogan?

  Ancient origins? Is it a crackpot site?

• 2:51:47Speaker 04

  It just doesn't, doesn't give the vibes of a place to start looking for relevant information.

• 2:51:53Speaker 02

  Right. That's a good way to put it, Jamie.

• 2:51:55Speaker 01

  There's no vibe.

• 2:51:55Speaker 02

  So supposedly what was happening, there was some people doing something coming across the water and, and they saw it. So could it be that the Caribbean?

• 2:52:06Speaker 01

  We analyze this one.

• 2:52:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, the Caribbean's hot and, and there's something out there, you know?

• 2:52:13Speaker 04

  It eventually goes in the water.

• 2:52:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:52:15Joe Rogan?

  That's very weird.

• 2:52:17Speaker 02

  E- even, even this one, we've, we've looked at it.

• 2:52:19Speaker 01

  We argued over this for months.

• 2:52:21Joe Rogan?

  How fast is this thing supposedly going?

• 2:52:23Speaker 02

  It's not going that fast.

• 2:52:24Speaker 01

  Yes, it's, it's a, it's kind of quick like a, like a Lear Jet would. You know?

• 2:52:30Speaker 02

  But, but.

• 2:52:31Joe Rogan?

  But it just looks, it just went right in the water.

• 2:52:33Speaker 02

  The two things that stick out about this.

• 2:52:35Joe Rogan?

  That's what's nuts, that it goes in the water.

• 2:52:36Speaker 02

  It does, there's no.

• 2:52:37Joe Rogan?

  It's going fast in the water.

• 2:52:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's no rooster tail that comes off it.

• 2:52:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:52:41Speaker 02

  And the other thing is at one point near the end, it actually looks like it splits in two. There's like, one's a holograph and one's.

• 2:52:47Speaker 01

  Right, and now there's some other imagery guy that's saying, oh, that he didn't, it didn't actually go in the water, it's just an artifact.

• 2:52:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, see it splits up?

• 2:52:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, there you go. See, that's the part that you can't, and what are we seeing with the drones? Some of these are splitting, right?

• 2:53:01Speaker 01

  And these are the ones that I find very curious because those are the ones that get sent and they're like, it's an orb, but now there's three of them, you know? How do I explain that?

• 2:53:10Joe Rogan?

  Well, listen, I want to thank you guys for having the courage to even talk about this because I know it brings with it a lot of ridicule and for people like me that have no idea what's going on, it's very fascinating and.

• 2:53:20Speaker 02

  You know a lot more than most.

• 2:53:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, I, I, I still don't know anything though, so that's not good.

• 2:53:27Joe Rogan?

  Because I know more than most.

• 2:53:28Speaker 01

  Wait a minute, wait a minute.

• 2:53:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but I, I mean, all I know is what people have told me, so I don't know what's real and what's not real, you know?

• 2:53:33Speaker 01

  True, yeah.

• 2:53:34Joe Rogan?

  But I appreciate you guys very much and thank you for being here. Um, if you've got social media, tell everybody where they can get ahold of you.

• 2:53:40Speaker 01

  I'm on Xspace mainly, um, just my name, Jason T. Sands is my moniker, so.

• 2:53:46Joe Rogan?

  Logan?

• 2:53:47Speaker 02

  I am at phenom地earth, just look it up and you'll see information about my app and, and a little bit about my background.

• 2:53:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I've got a firsthand fund, I'm trying to get further whistleblowers to come forward as well.

• 2:53:58Joe Rogan?

  Um, okay.

• 2:53:59Speaker 02

  James Fox did ask me to pass you something. He said, uh, if you could put out a shout out to anybody. That has information on the Varhena stuff because he's found some new information and he needs to start cooperating.

• 2:54:13Joe Rogan?

  Ah, okay. Where do they get ahold of James? Is James Fox director, I think, on Instagram?

• 2:54:19Speaker 02

  I believe so.

• 2:54:19Speaker 01

  And his X space is also a good way.

• 2:54:21Joe Rogan?

  Okay. All right. Beautiful. Well, thank you, gentlemen. Appreciate it. Thanks for being here.

• 2:54:25Speaker 01

  Thank you, Joe. Very good to meet you.

• 2:54:26Joe Rogan?

  All right. Bye, everybody.

• 2:54:41Speaker 04

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