New Year’s Resolutions

Rich and Julie discuss the hows, whys and why nots of New Year's resolutions, Eckhart Tolle, The “Icarus Deception”, the importance of going “inside”, setting goals and how to set yourself up for successfully achieving them. SHOW NOTES Free Shipping on Vitamix Purchases The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment* by Eckhart Tolle A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life's Purpose (Oprah's Book Club, Selection 61)* by Eckhart Tolle The Artist's Way* by Julia Cameron The Icarus Deception: How High Will You Fly?* by Seth Godin *Disclosure: Books and products denoted with an asterisk are hyperlinked to an affiliate program. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

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• 1:13Rich Roll?

  The Rich Roll Podcast. Are you ready?

• 1:16Speaker 01

  I'm ready.

• 1:17Rich Roll?

  For episode nine of the podcast?

• 1:18Speaker 01

  I'm ready. So ready.

• 1:21Rich Roll?

  It's been a little while.

• 1:22Speaker 01

  It's been.

• 1:22Rich Roll?

  I feel like I keep saying that. Like, the plan was to do two or three a week, and it devolved into one a week. And then, well, you know, it's holidays, right?

• 1:32Speaker 01

  We've had a lot of other stuff going on, too.

• 1:34Rich Roll?

  I know.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  Just trying to...

• 1:35Rich Roll?

  But I promise, we're actually, we're, this is, hey, it's Rich and Julie. Hey, Julie.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  Hey, Rich.

• 1:42Rich Roll?

  It's podcasting from the warehouse in Kauai. We have 10 more days here, and then we're going back to Los Angeles. So the point I was gonna make was that when we get back, I'm gonna have, I'm gonna back it up, like, back-to-back live guests. I'm gonna try to do one, like, every other day and get tons of them out there.

• 1:59Speaker 01

  It's gonna be scary good. The lineup, the LA lineup.

• 2:03Rich Roll?

  So anyway, you'll just have to tolerate the solo Rich and Julie show.

• 2:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:08Rich Roll?

  A little bit longer. But pretty soon, yeah, I'm gonna have tons of cool guests coming on. So thanks for all the support. Like I keep saying, it's been really fun doing this and we appreciate all the early, you know, comments and reviews on iTunes and tweets and Facebook posts and all that kind of good stuff. It's been really cool doing the show. And it's also been interesting, you know, when I wrote my book, it kind of put me into a public spotlight in a way that I, you know, I certainly had never been before. And there's a lot of cool, great things about that. And you also have to weather like the storms of discontent.

• 2:51Speaker 01

  Like my hater comments?

• 2:53Rich Roll?

  Well, I mean, I was getting to that. But before I get to that, the, well, first of all, the purpose of this podcast, it's New Year's Day, so we're going to talk about New Year's resolutions. That's the theme of the podcast. But before we do that, yeah, I just wanted to touch on kind of the feedback. And the feedback, you know, that I got on the book was overwhelmingly positive, but you know, there's always somebody who doesn't like it, or it wasn't what they thought it was going to be, or whatever. And that's fine, you know, perfectly content to, you know, entertain people's, you know, criticisms, constructive or otherwise. But there's also been some constructive and not so constructive

• 3:34Rich Roll?

  criticism of the podcast, which has been interesting. You know, I'm used to it, but for Julie, this is kind of a new thing. So there were some people who absolutely loved Julie and the dynamic between us. And then there's other people who are like, give Rich his own podcast. Let her have her own. Let her have her own. What is she doing?

• 3:52Speaker 01

  I want my own.

• 3:53Rich Roll?

  There goes Julie. She's dominating the conversation again. She won't let Rich make a point. How does that make you feel?

• 4:01Speaker 01

  It's, hmm, no, it's a little, it's a little edgy. I mean, it's a little, it's a little vulnerable, because this is a very open forum. And I think the thing that keeps it really good is being able to keep it really free and open. And I think, you know, when you get like a really mean comment, or, you know, if someone's like, you know, I think I've had about enough of her as I can take, or something like that, you know, or, oh, no, I got in trouble because I mentioned somebody who's a friend of mine who happens to be famous, who actually, when she was my friend, she wasn't. But, and it was completely relevant to the, to the subject we were talking about. But in any case, I think, I think it gave me a moment to reflect. And, you know, I think you and I talked about, I mean, you know,

• 4:45Speaker 01

  We have to remain in that neutral place of harmony and balance where, you know, we're not, we're not going on the seesaw or the yo-yo of, you know, oh, this is the greatest thing ever, or, oh, it's the worst thing ever.

• 4:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you're not as good as, you know, all the people that are, you know, raving and giving you all this praise, and you're not as bad as the people that are angry with you for whatever reason.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  No, and I think-

• 5:09Rich Roll?

  You do what you do, and I think that's relevant to New Year's resolutions and restarting, and, you know, what does 2013 bring? Because for me, it's all about a sense of self and creating boundaries and knowing who you are and what your message is and what you're here to offer. And if you kind of sway with the tide, like if somebody says, "Well, you know, you shouldn't do this, and you should do that," and you react to that and then respond accordingly to that, because that's what somebody said, is that really, you know, what you want or what your message is?

• 5:44Speaker 01

  No.

• 5:44Rich Roll?

  And so it just, it makes you ask those questions.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  And it really, it could, and if you did that, you would be compromising the authenticity of who you are. And so, you know, you're, you're never going to be liked by everybody, and you're, you know, you're not going to be hated by everybody either. So, you know, it's just, at the end of the day, I have to look deep inside my heart and make sure that I am communicating about the issues that I'm passionate about and that are true to my heart and true to us as a couple and as a family. And, you know, at the end of the, at the end of the day, that's all we can do.

• 6:14Rich Roll?

  Right. I mean, so Julie's here to stay on the podcast.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  So for all my haters, I have a very long-

• 6:23Rich Roll?

  I will have, you know, plenty of other guests, and I'll do plenty, you know, just with me and, and guests, but Julie is my co-host and, you know, take it or leave it. If you don't, if you're not enjoying that and you don't like it, then this podcast isn't for you, I suppose.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, and if you hate it, you know, it is free and you can just, don't listen to it.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  That would work. That would work for you really well.

• 6:45Rich Roll?

  That's the other funny thing, when you give somebody something for free and then they're angry.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're pissed off.

• 6:51Rich Roll?

  Because it's not what they want, so.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  There you go. We're trying to give you quality, in any case.

• 6:56Rich Roll?

  We're trying.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  We try hard.

• 6:58Rich Roll?

  We try. We try hard. You can't please everybody. If you are, then something's wrong, I think.

• 7:04Speaker 01

  Right. Then you're mediocre.

• 7:06Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you gotta take a stand.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  At best.

• 7:08Rich Roll?

  You gotta take a stand, and when you take a stand on anything, you will attract the people that respond to that, but you will ultimately divide people too. You always will. There's nothing wrong with that, I guess.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  That's true. I've been known to produce extreme reactions in individuals. Usually I'm the last one to know, though, because I'm very, I just sort of walk around in my neutral place of loving acceptance for all things.

• 7:38Rich Roll?

  I'm not so neutral. I get more reactive. By the way, for the people out there who are commenting, like, "I thought this was a health and nutrition podcast", and they're, you know, maybe they just, they read the book, or they know who I am, or they don't know who I am, or whatever, and they come here and they think that...

• 7:55Speaker 01

  They skip my chapter.

• 7:58Rich Roll?

  They think they're gonna get a triathlon training program from the podcast, that that's not really what this podcast is about. I said that from the beginning, but I should probably reiterate it if somebody's just tuning in now. There are plenty of great podcasts out there with tons of expert advice on how to prepare for an Ironman, how to prepare for a triathlon. Check out Ben Greenfield Fitness, Zen and the Art of Triathlon, I Am Talk. Like, there are already people out there that have been doing it for a long time and doing it very, very well. And so, when I started this podcast, I wanted to do something a little bit different. First of all, I don't want to tread on their terrain. They're already doing it very well, and I listen to all those podcasts and I get a lot out of them.

• 8:42Rich Roll?

  I wanted to bring something a little bit different to the table. Of course, I will be talking about nutrition and nutrition for performance and... You know, vegan diet and how to eat a vegan diet and be an athlete and all of that good stuff and you know how my training is going and tips for you know you guys to take your you know training programs to the next level and all of that is part of this podcast but I also wanted to offer something a little bit broader and kind of go behind the curtain a little bit to you know stuff that maybe is a little bit more important in the whole context of life I suppose so that's not going to resonate with everybody and that's okay.

• 9:32Rich Roll?

  What do you think about New Year's resolutions as a concept?

• 9:35Speaker 01

  Well, interesting.

• 9:39Speaker 01

  I'm sort of sitting in a new place this year. I have to say that I have no New Year's resolutions.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  And it doesn't mean, how do I explain this? I really feel like the energy of this year is coming from a different place, more of a receptive, magnetic, attractive kind of place of being-ness where I would say that I have some visions, you could call them dreams or visions. And rather than making a resolution, almost feels outdated to me at this point from where I'm sitting, although I'm sure that it's useful to many people.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  But it almost feels like you know dreaming your dream and feeling it in all of your senses like instead of making a goal or a hard fast sort of milestone to achieve, what if we described it in a way where we described the emotions or the experiences that we wanted to experience or have in our lives? So what if we said, you know, I want to experience more connection, more community, more love, more intimacy, more creativity, more health?

• 11:17Rich Roll?

  But you need a roadmap to get to those things.

• 11:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, but see, when you're going into your mind, when you say, "Well, you need a roadmap." So it's your mind trying to put it in a structure so that your mind feels okay. And what I'm suggesting is that there is a more expanded way of accessing a higher level of information by dropping into your heart and feeling how something feels in your body. That's a much more powerful way to attract something into your life. So I know it's confusing because we're used to doing it the other way. And this is where the meditation and the diet and the really getting inside of yourself

• 12:05Speaker 01

  in a quiet way, it's a receptive way, it's a magnetic way, it's a heart way of being.

• 12:15Rich Roll?

  You want to know what I think?

• 12:16Speaker 01

  Yes. I'm sure it will be exactly the opposite.

• 12:20Rich Roll?

  No, I'm conflicted over it, actually, because I think that having resolutions to improve yourself over the course of the year is obviously a good thing. And in the pantheon of holidays where society imposes these mandatory things upon us, it's probably the best one. It's sort of like, "It's Valentine's Day, so you must go out and buy this and do this for your spouse or your partner or whatever." And it's like, "Really? Just because the greeting card industry wants me to do it?"

• 13:01Speaker 01

  You're not going to get me a box of Red Heart chocolates?

• 13:04Rich Roll?

  Well, we have these rules in our culture. And it's sort of like, "Well, on Christmas, you get the tree, and on Valentine's Day, you get the box of candy, and you just do what you're supposed to do," or whatever. And I kind of resent some of that.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:19Rich Roll?

  You know, like, "Just because you're telling me that this is the day that I need to show love for my partner, that's the day that I have to do it, and if I don't, I'm in trouble."

• 13:26Speaker 01

  You're in big, big trouble if you don't.

• 13:30Rich Roll?

  Based on my last five years of Valentine's Day. But, so, yeah, but New Year's Day being resolu-- like, that's, you know--

• 13:39Speaker 01

  It's kind of what you do, right?

• 13:40Rich Roll?

  It's on the better side. But here's what I think. In my experience, you know, you always hear like the jaded person or the jaded side of me would say, "Well, people don't change, you know, you can make your resolutions, that's fine, but like, you know, who actually falls through on this stuff? It's a bunch of nonsense and, you know, nobody really ever changes anyway." And, you know, my message has always been, "Yeah, you can change. I changed, you know, people can change when, you know, the sort of right circumstances arise with the right sort of will and spiritual alchemy and follow-through and actions and support and all these kinds of things. Remarkable change can happen in human beings. I believe in the potential of humans to, to completely alter who they

• 14:22Rich Roll?

  are if they, you know, desire to do so." But I also think that people are motivated to change when they're in pain, when they're under extreme duress, you know, like, there has to be pressure on somebody.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  So are your resolutions painful?

• 14:40Rich Roll?

  Sort of like you get, well, no, you get a diamond, you know, when you exert incredible pressure on carbon, right? You know what I mean? Like, the good thing comes out of, out of pressure. And so with, with New Year's resolutions, there isn't really that, there's a lot of lip service, really, you know what I mean? It's sort of like, it's, it's, I liken it to doing an intervention on an addict that doesn't really want to get sober.

• 15:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 15:05Rich Roll?

  You know what I mean? It's sort of like, well, the family and society at large believes that this person needs to change their behavior.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 15:12Rich Roll?

  But if that person isn't ready to change, or they don't really want to, or even if they say they want to, but in their heart, they don't really want to, or they're not ready to, they might change for a little while, but it won't be long before they're, you know, back doing whatever it is that they were doing before. Right?

• 15:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 15:27Rich Roll?

  So, the point being that the desire to change has to come from inside yourself. It has to be a self-generated, strong impulse.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 15:39Rich Roll?

  And usually that impulse comes from, again, you know, pain or pressure, or something amiss in your life that is driving you to be different than who you are. Like, you don't just wake up, everything's great and say, "Well, I'm gonna change and be this now." Like, maybe that happens for some people.

• 15:56Speaker 01

  I'm gonna be blonde.

• 15:57Rich Roll?

  That would be the, uh, well, that's easy to do.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  Wait and see.

• 16:01Rich Roll?

  We can make that happen if you want. But you know what I'm saying? You know what my point? You understand my point?

• 16:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I understand your point. And so, so, so are we saying possibly there could be some sort of blend of process? That might be of service to?

• 16:16Rich Roll?

  Well, what it brings me back to your point, which is like you're basically what you're saying is, you know, instead of making this list, you know, go inside yourself. And, and I guess I'm saying the same thing, which is, which is, you know, it all starts with inside, you know, it's an inside job, right? Like what you manifest in your exterior is really only a reflection of what's going on inside. So before you can say, I want X, Y, and Z in the exterior world, whatever those things may be,

• 16:45Rich Roll?

  the best way, or really the only way to get that in a sustainable and true fashion is by doing the interior work. You know what I mean?

• 16:53Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 16:53Rich Roll?

  And, and I get every year, the past couple of years, around this time, I get asked by various blogs and websites, you know, could you give five tips to, you know, for people to get healthier in the new year, to help them with their resolutions? And I'm happy to do it. Like, I want to help and I believe that I have tools that are helpful and we can talk about some of those. And, you know, hopefully they're helpful to people, but I always feel when I do that, like it's a little glib. You know, it's sort of like, you know, do this, do that.

• 17:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:26Rich Roll?

  It's sort of like.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  It's a little surfacy.

• 17:28Rich Roll?

  And then I do, and I go, I wonder if that actually ever really helped anybody? I don't, maybe it did. I don't know, you know?

• 17:35Speaker 01

  But I think there's also something to, to that energy that we experience in our relationship where, you know, I was pushing for something, you know, different within you, within our relationship. Haha, within you. That's funny. But, you know,

• 17:57Speaker 01

  What about if we started with this really grand acceptance of exactly where we are right now? So, again, it comes down to the faith question to me, which is, you know, I trust that the divine plan, myself, you know, at a higher level, has me exactly in the experience that is exactly appropriate for me at this point in time. And so, if we started off by just having that embrace, that acceptance, of exactly where you are in your life, and it doesn't matter where that is.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  It could be very low, it could be in a very traumatic situation. And begin from there, begin with a love and acceptance from there, and then, yes, vision, yes, dream, yes, do, you know, I call it detached action. You know, it's like you're acting spontaneously in ways that are in alignment with your highest vision of being and living. Lifestyle, if you want to sort of simplify it. So, from that point of being and acceptance, of accepting yourself first, then you can start to identify, you know, like, I would like more health in my life,

• 19:20Speaker 01

  for instance, coming up, I would like, I'd like to raise the bar on all of that, even up, even raise that up a level.

• 19:26Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but let me just interrupt you, because for me, like, I'm able to change only when I look at something inside of myself and say, "That's unacceptable." You know, "I cannot accept this part of the way that I'm living anymore, that has to change." Like, it's my refusal to accept that that is the driver for the change.

• 19:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 19:50Rich Roll?

  So how do you reconcile that with... See, that's the...

• 19:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I don't know if I agree with that with possibly... I mean, in our situation, our big catalyst, which basically is the birth of this entire movement and why we're sitting where we are, was... Came from you being completely loved and accepted exactly how you were.

• 20:12Rich Roll?

  But that's you towards me.

• 20:14Speaker 01

  Right, I know, but we do it towards ourselves as well. It still can inflict sort of like a prison on yourself. The self-judgment is worse than anybody else's judgment on any other person.

• 20:27Rich Roll?

  Well, always. That's always the case.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's always the case.

• 20:29Rich Roll?

  But I feel like that was a part of why I was able to change because I wasn't, you know, irrespective of where you were coming from towards me, it was my, you know, internal decision that this is not acceptable anymore.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  But why was that? Why was it not acceptable? Because what... This is what I think it's the next step. What were you desiring in your life? What were the emotions that you wanted to experience or the events you wanted to experience?

• 21:00Rich Roll?

  Right. I mean, it wasn't like I had... I woke up and I made a resolution that I was gonna do Ultraman.

• 21:05Speaker 01

  Right.

• 21:05Rich Roll?

  It wasn't that at all. It was like, like I always said, it was, I wanna, you know, I wanna be healthy, I wanna have good energy, I wanna feel good, I wanna be happy, I wanna feel good in my body. It wasn't specific. It was just... That was the emotion, I suppose.

• 21:20Speaker 01

  So that's what I'm saying, is I just, I really feel strongly at this point in our evolution where we are, where all things are in the world that we live in, that it is imperative that we connect to our hearts because the heart is what contains the divine message. And I am just saying, your soul message, your life message, whatever that is, whoever you are, the answer is in your heart, it's not in your mind. And the resolutions tend to be, they feel sort of like little prison cells or judgments that, you know, maybe could be a little, just harsh, that's all, you know, so...

• 22:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but they're not harsh if... I mean, I've always operated very well in a structured environment where I have goals and I'm on a schedule and I'm working towards that. You do. You work very well that way. And you don't operate that way. No, I don't. So we speak different languages in this regard. And I understand what you're saying and I believe in that, but I don't, I think for me, it's a manner, it's a, it's a means of trying to reconcile those two things and have them fit together in a way that works. Like, I agree that, you know, you have to go inside, you have to connect with your heart, you have to set aside that idle chatter in your mind that, you know, and if you don't understand like kind of what we're talking about, again, listen to the Eckhart Tolle's book, The Power of Now, because he talks

• 22:47Rich Roll?

  it all about this. Genius. It's actually a great way to start 2013 is to listen to that book. It will really help you sort of make that, that distinction between, you know, who you are as a person, like your soul person versus what the mind does and understanding that. That you are not your mind. You're not your mind and then also your mind is not always your friend and, and for, for most people, myself included, like I let my mind control who I am far too often. And understanding that you have power over your thoughts and learning how to develop mastery over that and control over the way that your brain thinks is actually a very

• 23:31Rich Roll?

  powerful recipe for changing your life completely. So, you know, if you start there, then I think that you're on a trajectory that will set you on a better path to understanding yourself better. And then you're in a place where whatever goals you set for yourself are kind of in alignment with who you are, because if you're disconnected from who you are as a person, you can set a goal, you can say, "I want, I want to run a 10K in this time," or "I want to run my first marathon," or "I want to lose 10 pounds," or, you know, "I want to learn to play the banjo," or whatever it is. But is that really what you, what you want? Is that really the goal that you're supposed to be seeking? Can you say with conviction that that is like the best goal for you to be setting?

• 24:16Rich Roll?

  Like if you look back a year from now and say that was the best use of my time? Like if you're super connected with who you are and you really are tuned into your, you know, authentic self and you have mastery over your thoughts and you are connected to your heart, then yeah, it probably is. But if you're not and you're kind of floating through life and you know, kind of going wherever the wind blows and not really sure of, you know, who you are, where you're supposed to go, then that goal that you set, that resolution, may not be really what you're supposed to be doing, right? Does that make sense?

• 24:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely, because you're disconnected, because you don't really know the answer. And maybe it was somebody else's idea of what you should do, or maybe it was society's, or your parents, or your wife, or husband, or your kids, or whoever. So, um, yeah, it's getting connected with your heart that's gonna give you, it's gonna give you the answers that you need. It's gonna, it's gonna just inspire you. You're gonna be spontaneously inspired. And when it comes to you, it's like, it's like play. It's like, um, you know, it just, it just comes. It's not hard. It's not easy. It's not, I mean, it's easy. It's, uh, it's not violent. Um, it's not judgmental. It's spontaneous

• 25:32Speaker 01

  and flowing. Um, and, and that's how, that's how I would describe it when you're, when you're really connected.

• 25:39Rich Roll?

  So how can somebody get more connected? Like what, what would you, you know, I wanna, I wanna take it down from the atmosphere and actually give people some things that they can, they can do.

• 25:51Speaker 01

  Well, the first thing is, I mean, honestly, if you, I mean, we already said Eckhart Tolle, like Get It. Get both, uh, books and listen to them, or read them. Um, and, uh, you know, the other thing is, for me, see, for you, it's training. For me, it's, uh, it's yoga and meditation. And I do this specific humming meditation that's on one of our meditation programs that, that we offer. And the reason I offer it is because it's a thing that literally shifted my life more than anything else. So it's very, very powerful. And I do that almost every day. Um, I play music, I paint, uh, I practice being, uh, in the moment.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  As consciously as I can. So like if I'm, like somebody yesterday came in the kitchen in the yurts and they were talking about New Year's Eve and, you know, well, you know, what are you guys doing tomorrow? And, and I said, I don't, I have no idea what we're doing. I know right now I'm making vegan tempeh chili. And that's what I'm doing. Literally, I live fully in the present task of whatever I'm doing right then. And it can be even dialed down to the breath, to taking a breath in and taking a breath out. So what, in my experience and in our life and our path and what we've been through

• 27:21Speaker 01

  is absolutely nothing has been stable. We don't know what's happening the next hour, much less tomorrow or next week or next month.

• 27:33Rich Roll?

  That doesn't sound very comforting.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  It's not. It's, it's, it's really frightening in the beginning, but it is, it's the illusion. See, we, you know, we go around, we, we come into these bodies and we, and we set up these families or, you know, we get bank accounts and we get cars and we get 401Ks and we get insurance. And we walk around and we think that we're so responsible and we have everything figured out. And, you know, as one of the great masters say, you know, all Mother Earth has to do is just shake just, just a little, she just shakes a little and the whole thing's, you know, completely destroyed. So it's just an illusion. All of those systems, you can plan as, as much as you want to plan.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  And, you know, if God has something else in, you know, on the, on the books for you, it's, it's not going to help you. So it's the illusion of hang, hanging on to that you're safe by having all these structures around you. So real freedom is being so grounded in yourself from within that it doesn't matter with the external, what's going on around you. And don't misunderstand me, I am not insensitive or detached from human suffering at all. So I'm not saying that it won't be painful, but I'm saying that you can

• 29:04Speaker 01

  Access a place of peace that is beyond the highs and the lows,

• 29:11Speaker 01

  where it's consciousness that is radiating always and it is the truth of who you are. And so, human life is suffering. Just look around you. All you have to do is turn on the news. I mean, every single person you know in your life, almost across the board, is dealing with some sort of very intense scenario, whether it's financial collapse, illness, you know, all kinds of things. So, it's finding this place of stillness that's,

• 29:55Speaker 01

  that it all sort of sits in, that the whole experience sort of sits in, sort of a backdrop.

• 30:02Rich Roll?

  Well, right. I mean, in other words, to go through life and, you know, something great happens and then you're happy and then something bad or something you label as being bad happens and then you're not so happy or you're anxious or, you know, you get a bill in the mail and it creates anxiety, "How am I gonna pay this?" and then you're worried or you're stressed. So, all these external factors that influence your emotional well-being.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Well, and pleasure is really the other side of pain. Pleasure and pain.

• 30:30Rich Roll?

  Can you get to a place where, where you are happy irrespective of those outside circumstances?

• 30:37Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 30:38Rich Roll?

  And that those external stimuli don't really move the meter one way or the other?

• 30:44Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 30:44Rich Roll?

  But to me, as somebody who likes extremes,

• 30:48Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 30:49Rich Roll?

  That sounds boring.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well,

• 30:52Rich Roll?

  You know?

• 30:53Speaker 01

  Are you tired enough yet?

• 30:55Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  I am. I'm getting pretty exhausted.

• 31:00Rich Roll?

  Tired of me?

• 31:01Speaker 01

  Of the extremes. No, no, no. Just of, you know, I mean, really, like, look at our life, like, look at just a year of life, a slice of life last year. We experienced extreme highs and extreme lows.

• 31:15Speaker 01

  Like, just, sort of, the, yeah, the full color spectrum, right?

• 31:21Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  In, in, in, in all the colors, and...

• 31:25Rich Roll?

  No, I tweeted yesterday, like, you know, in, in many ways, 2012 was the best year of my life. Like, so many incredible things happened, you know, the book came out, and I got to travel around, and meet all these people, and speak, and it was really like, I felt like I'd, you know, really stepped into, like, a version of myself that I had always wanted to be, you know, and it was a celebration of that in many ways.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  Very beautiful.

• 31:50Rich Roll?

  And it was, it was incredible, you know, beyond what I could have ever predicted or expected, and certainly, like, looking back, you know, five or six years ago, I couldn't have even imagined doing this at all, it wasn't even, not because I didn't believe that I was capable of doing, like, even just the field of being what I'm, that I'm in right now, I would not, I wouldn't have understood why I would even be doing that, like, when you say, you know...

• 32:15Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 32:16Rich Roll?

  You know, "Tell God what your plans are, and that's the way you make God laugh," or whatever, like, I would have never predicted this path for myself, and yet it's been incredibly gratifying and amazing in so many ways, and fantastic, but also, you know, kind of behind the curtain at the same time, you know, we went through a lot, you know, we went through a lot financially, it was a very, very difficult year.

• 32:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:39Rich Roll?

  And, and we had a lot of challenges with that, and so, on the surface, it looked amazing, and...

• 32:45Speaker 01

  We look really good on the website, and in the 8x10 glossy, it looks really good.

• 32:50Rich Roll?

  And at the same time, yeah, we were, we were, and we continue to deal with a lot, and so, for me, when I see a friend of mine who's, you know, very financially successful, or has this, or has that, and, you know, my human instinct is to not, not really be jealous, but kind of look at myself in the mirror and go, "Well, why don't I have that?"

• 33:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, what's wrong with you?

• 33:14Rich Roll?

  If I had that, then I'd be happy, and it's understanding that that person may have that in order, but, you know, everybody has something that they're, that they're dealing with, nobody gets out of this intact, you know, we all have stuff that...

• 33:27Speaker 01

  Well, and, yeah, and the other thing is, is that you have to, everybody has their unique karmic path, like, you can't live someone else's path, it's a completely individual, unique thing, so the whole... The whole focus should be on try to find out who you are, trying to connect to who you are, because I guarantee you, you were created in some genius way, and there's something in there that only you do in a certain way. And so, you know, I always tell the kids that I, when I teach kids yoga, and I always say, "Please be more of who you are, please, please do that."

• 34:10Rich Roll?

  And that's not to say, you know, and I talk about this a lot, it's not to say that, you know, everybody's gonna be Michael Jordan, or that everybody is gonna be the best in the world at whatever it is that they're doing, but I think it's important to, to, with the children and with ourselves, to give ourselves that, um, freedom to explore that side of ourselves that, as we grow older into adulthood, really gets crushed, right?

• 34:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, it does. Well, I always say it starts, you know, in the first art class. When you have, you know, teachers that are preparing art projects, um, really for the parents, so that the parents can look at a picture of a duck, and it looks like a duck, and they can feel good that their kid drew a duck, or pasted a duck. Or how about the teachers that just cut it out, and then give the kids the shapes, and then they just stick those on? But, you know, I used to teach-

• 35:08Rich Roll?

  As opposed to what?

• 35:09Speaker 01

  Well, as opposed to, I mean, I taught, you know, volunteered in preschool art, and I used to have them make, like, I'd give them some clay, and I'd say, "Okay, you know, make a fish." And so, you know, they'd all make fishes, you know, in a million different ways, and so then I would hold up, you know, one that was very, specifically looked like a fish, like, very smooth, and, you know, sort of very straight down the middle, and I would then hold up one that was all contorted, and, you know, the, the body was way big, and the fin was way little, or however this child made it. And I would say to the class, "Which one's better?", and they would all point at the one that looked more typically like a fish.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  And I would say, "No, they both are, because in art, there is no, you know, there's, there's no scale. It's like, it's an expression of the heart, and both are valid." So, you, I meet a lot of people, and they, they'll say right off, you know, "I'm not an artist." You know, right away. And really, when you get anyone with a paintbrush or some medium clay, whatever they feel good with, everybody's an artist. Everybody has some... And I love working with sculpture and clay because it's very childlike. You know, you can mold it and there's builders and then there's carvers.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  You know, you can take away or you can build something up. But everybody has a different, I call it a different hand, like a different thumb, a different way they mark the clay. And it's very gorgeous to see because there's so many different types of individuals and we really need all of us to make, you know, a beautiful bouquet of flowers or a beautiful community.

• 37:01Rich Roll?

  Right, and when you say art, you know, art doesn't mean art class or painting or drawing. I think art is the external manifestation of whatever you're passionate about in life.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, beautiful.

• 37:14Rich Roll?

  You know, I think that we relegate the definition of art to a very narrow thing. But in my opinion, you know, art is, the best art is the expression of somebody who's fully actualized and the medium in which that's expressed is, can be anything, right?

• 37:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 37:35Rich Roll?

  So, you know, for some it's painting, but, you know, that's a very small fraction of what the human population has to offer.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, it could be. And the other thing is consciousness, and this is also this thing, and I think that, I mean, maybe I'm sort of over it because I sort of went through that stage in spiritual seeking, but I think at the beginning, when we're talking about connecting with consciousness or God or this power like, you know, greater outside of ourselves, we think that...

• 38:03Speaker 01

  That there's a value difference. You know, like, we think that it's better to be a monk, or it's better to... Or if you're spiritual, you know, you can't cuss. Or if you're spiritual, you know, you won't watch an episode of Breaking Bad. You know, you sort of project this non-human sort of construct onto whoever, you know, you think is a spiritual teacher or a spiritually connected person. And really, when you get to the truth of it all, consciousness doesn't care what you do. It doesn't place any value difference. Like, the Dalai Lama isn't more special than, you know, a street sweeper, or a gardener,

• 38:48Speaker 01

  or... And a child is, you know, not less special than, you know, Einstein. You know, it doesn't care. It literally doesn't care. And we used to joke, too, about that consciousness doesn't even care if someone's an atheist. You know? Like, there's literally, like, it's almost like, there's no judgment. It's a completely open field of creation and expression. And every single living thing is part of that.

• 39:27Rich Roll?

  There's a... The famous writer Seth Godin has a new book coming out. It's called "The Icarus Deception." It's very interesting. He just put up a trailer film for it that I watched the other day, and I think I tweeted... Yeah, I tweeted it. I'll put it in the show notes. But it's an interesting thesis to this book, which is, he's essentially saying that our society, through education and our job systems and all this sort of thing, has stripped everyone away of any of their creative impulses. And, you know, we're taught to do the safe thing in a business context, and, you know, in whatever it is that we do. And we're kind of rewarded up the corporate ladder for playing it safe.

• 40:11Rich Roll?

  Like, if you're, you know, working for a corporation, and, you know, your job is to sit on this committee and make decisions about X, Y, or Z, you know, it's not really a good idea to take a risk. You know? Because you could... If it doesn't work out, then you look bad. Maybe you lose your job, or you get demoted, or whatever. If you put yourself on the line... You know, there's a greater risk of it not working out than something amazing happening. And as a result of that, society suffers. And actually, corporate America suffers because we should be sort of celebrating the person that is willing to take a risk and, you know, try something in a new way or in a different way.

• 40:53Rich Roll?

  And in the, is it a myth or a fable of Icarus where, you know, the sun, Icarus flies too close to the sun and his wings melt?

• 41:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:04Rich Roll?

  And we're sort of, the idea behind that is really that, you know, you shouldn't, it's a, it's a parable about hubris, really. It's saying, you know, know your place, like, you know, know what your limits are. Don't fly too close to the sun because if you do, then you'll burn up and you will fail. And, you know, look what happened when you thought you were more than what you were. You know, and it's sort of, the idea is, you know, know your place, right? And this book is all about inverting that, like, this is a, this is sort of a lie that we've been sold because it isn't that Icarus failed, it's that he strove for greatness, right?

• 41:46Rich Roll?

  And yeah, he, ultimately, his wings, you know, melted and he fell, but, but there is beauty in that because he was willing to try something no one else was and we should be celebrating that rather than shaming him and pointing the finger. And if we did more of that in our culture, then we would be better off. And what, and Seth Godin also brings it back to this discussion about art because he's saying, everything is art, you know? If you're in corporate America, you, even in your job, you could be expressing what you do as art. Art is the, you know, actualized manifestation of a pure creative self with something to offer that comes from a unique and authentic place.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  That's beautiful. I can't wait to read it.

• 42:28Rich Roll?

  So.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  It's gonna be something.

• 42:31Rich Roll?

  Anyway.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  I'd love, definitely, absolutely. But I mean, I think that's...

• 42:39Speaker 01

  That's sort of the whole show that's been going on on the planet. I mean, in any kind of structure, whether it's government, whether it's religion. We've all been sold this story that we are really not powerful, that we are not connected, that we need to not try too hard, not step out of the box. So, it's a great concept, I mean, a great lie to let go of.

• 43:23Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so how do you let go of it?

• 43:25Speaker 01

  Well, read that book. I don't know.

• 43:29Rich Roll?

  Well, let's bring it back to resolutions.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Okay. So, do you have any?

• 43:34Rich Roll?

  Well, I've been thinking a lot about this. I think for me, my resolutions are more kind of in line with what you were saying. They're internal jobs. You know what I mean? I think that my resolutions are to be, are to create and sustain an active meditation practice.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 44:04Rich Roll?

  I like that.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  But I'm staying out of it.

• 44:07Rich Roll?

  And to really engage my recovery program at a higher level than I have.

• 44:14Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 44:15Rich Roll?

  Recently. It is to do the Artist's Way program again and see it through all the way, to be journaling and doing all of that that's involved with that program. Because, I was thinking about an athletic goal for this year. Do I want to do Ultraman again? Is there a race? And right now, quite honestly, I can't think of a race that's super. I want something to really excite me. And I don't know what that is right now.

• 44:48Speaker 01

  What's that one that you talked about? It involved us going to France or something like that?

• 44:52Rich Roll?

  No, there's a 100-mile race in India.

• 44:54Speaker 01

  Oh, India.

• 44:55Rich Roll?

  A 100-mile run in India.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay.

• 44:57Rich Roll?

  It's in June, though. That's coming up.

• 45:00Speaker 01

  I don't know about that.

• 45:01Rich Roll?

  It sounds pretty cool. You run from like the Taj Mahal to New Delhi or something like?

• 45:06Speaker 01

  I'll wait for you. At the Taj Mahal.

• 45:09Rich Roll?

  It sounded pretty cool.

• 45:10Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 45:11Rich Roll?

  That was, that sounds exciting, actually. That could be cool. But like, I just don't know yet. And because I don't know, like, I don't want to just pick something and say, "That's it", just because it's New Year's Day.

• 45:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 45:22Rich Roll?

  Which brings me back to, well, if I do this internal work, and I'm doing the artist's way, if I'm meditating, then the thing that I want, or that I'm supposed to be doing, will, will present itself to me. And that will, it will show itself to me, and then that will be the thing that I can say, "Okay, that's the thing I'm gonna, I'm gonna go do." But if I don't do that, then I'm throwing darts at a, you know, in the dark.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  That's wise.

• 45:45Rich Roll?

  Right?

• 45:46Speaker 01

  I think that's gonna work well for you.

• 45:48Rich Roll?

  So...

• 45:49Speaker 01

  I do. I think it's gonna be great.

• 45:50Rich Roll?

  Alright.

• 45:51Speaker 01

  What about your resolution to love your wife even more than you already do now?

• 45:58Rich Roll?

  That goes without saying.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  No, uh-uh. You gotta make it a priority, or it falls by the wayside.

• 46:02Rich Roll?

  What about the fact that you have no resolutions?

• 46:04Speaker 01

  No, I'm gonna, no, I'm gonna reveal that I have a different kind of resolution.

• 46:10Rich Roll?

  You are.

• 46:11Speaker 01

  No, I don't, I mean, yeah, I have some experiences or some emotions that I'd like to experience in my life. And I think that for me, and for, for us now on the planet, 2013 is a year of unity. It's a year of, of, of coming together in community, and starting to form new, new ways, new ways of educating, new business paradigms, new financial structures. Like, it's, it's time for us to stand up and come together. And no one else is coming. We, we are the ones. So, no one's coming to get us.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  So, we need to take care of ourselves, and we need to take care of each other, and our neighbors, and our families, and our communities. So, I'm excited, because I have a lot to learn about that. I'm certainly no expert in, in all these areas. And the other thing that, that hit me so deeply, and it actually hit me in the summer...

• 47:17Speaker 01

  I was going through another very challenging moment financially and just energy wise. And I just came to the realization that everything is just about service. It's just about service. So I want to

• 47:40Speaker 01

  serve at a more expanded level in whatever capacity that is, whether that's cooking for people or playing music, sharing my music, serving my kids, serving you, serving the family, serving myself, serving the planet, whatever that is. I want to dive deeper into that expression.

• 48:05Rich Roll?

  That's really the path to happiness. I mean, based on everything that I've experienced, every book I've ever read, everyone I've ever talked to, it's always the same. It's if you're, if and when you are in service, that's when you can find happiness. And, you know, that comes from people that have nothing to people that have everything say the same thing. And I know that when I'm caught up in my own problems or up in my head about something, or, you know, my mind is looping or spinning. That I've learned in recovery, this is like one of the main tools in recovery, to kind of shift that is to just pick up the phone and call somebody who, you know, could use a little help and, and help and try to help them and get out

• 48:50Rich Roll?

  of yourself and your little problem or whatever. And when you do that, everything shifts. You know, because you cannot think your way out of that. Like if you're unhappy or you're stuck or you're running some mental pattern that's creating, you know, unhappiness for you or anxiety or whatever, you can't think your way out of it. You have to, you have to take action because mood follows action. The action has to come first and, and, you know, for me, my default is always to say, well, I'll do that when I feel better. Like, let me just wait until I feel better and then I'll pick up the phone and do that, or then I'll go help that guy or whatever. But right now I just don't feel so good. So the trick is to take the action anyway.

• 49:32Rich Roll?

  And when you can take the action even when you don't want to, or you don't feel like it, to get out of yourself and invest yourself in somebody else who has less, or you know, could use a hand, that always shifts everything for me. So I think that's wise, and I think, you know, we could all use a little bit more service in our lives.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  And I think it's, I mean, that's true, and I think we also need to remember that service can happen in your home. It can happen with your child.

• 50:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it doesn't mean going to the soup kitchen. It can be, it's everything, and I think it's your mental approach to whatever it is you're doing throughout the day.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  Well, and it's the way that you evaluate it, because you know, we get, you know, say you're busy in your life, or you're trying to complete whatever your projects are, whatever, and you know, one of your children needs attention, or maybe they don't even need attention, maybe it's just been a while since you did anything with them, or just took one of them off on their own, you know, it's like, that's real valuable quality time, you know, and so if you just look at it like that, like even preparing a meal, it can just be a blessing. It's a blessing for me because I'm in service, and that's the biggest blessing that I can have and that I can share.

• 50:49Speaker 01

  So it doesn't, it just doesn't have to be like you, you know, you have to call somebody outside of your sphere, or make some big, you know, thing about it, you know what I mean, like it can be just very spontaneous.

• 51:03Rich Roll?

  Right, but I'm just saying, like, I'll be driving in my car on the highway, and I'll be like, I start getting all caught up in my head about something that's irritating me, or I'm upset about something, or whatever, and the easiest fix is for me to just look at my phone and call somebody who I know, you know, has less than I do, or is having a hard time.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 51:25Rich Roll?

  It can be as simple as that, so.

• 51:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's great.

• 51:29Rich Roll?

  What was I gonna say? I wanna, you know, back to...

• 51:33Speaker 01

  I didn't finish my resolutions.

• 51:35Rich Roll?

  Okay, go ahead and then I want to talk. No, go.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  And the other thing is, is that I am committed to a practice of living in the moment. So I'm not looking at any future date as a point in time when things are going to be easier or more graceful, or I may be more happy or more creative. I'm simply looking to this moment to be as fully present as I can. And, you know, as I shared, we've had a, you know, very intense year last year, lots of highs, lots of lows. We had, you know, deaths and triumphs and all kinds of things going on.

• 52:19Speaker 01

  And when you're in that pinch, when the pressure is that intense, all you have is the moment.

• 52:29Rich Roll?

  And I think that gets to destination versus journey. Because I think New Year's resolutions by their very nature are kind of destination-oriented. Like, I want to lose 10 pounds, or in April, I'm going to run a marathon.

• 52:42Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 52:42Rich Roll?

  And it's all about, you know, how do I get from here to there? When I get to there, everything's going to be better. And certainly, there is, you know, triumph and celebration and joy in achieving a goal. There's, I'm not saying that that's not the case. It certainly is the case. But I think that the real value is always in the journey.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  It's in the process.

• 53:05Rich Roll?

  And so what you're saying is engage in the journey and in the moment of the journey on a daily basis, as opposed to being sort of grinding all the way towards that goal. And even when you achieve it, and you did it, you know, well, where was the value? And you hear this from anybody who's achieved anything, from Richard Branson to, you know, any big entrepreneur, to an athlete, or whatever, you know, they'll have their, you know, yeah, one of my company had its IPO, or I won this big race, or whatever. You know, when they're 20 years later, they'll look back and it's less about that moment of victory than it is about like, remember when we were eating, you know, Chinese food at 2:00 in the morning and we didn't know if our company was going to make it? And, you know, those were the good times, or, you know what I mean?

• 53:50Rich Roll?

  Like, that's always the case.

• 53:51Speaker 01

  Well, the process is creative, you know? And really, you know, when you get to the end, it's the end. So it's, that's what I'm, it's the living, and that's when I say that, when I, when I use the term being-

• 54:03Rich Roll?

  There should be no end.

• 54:05Speaker 01

  No, I know. I'm just saying with a goal, you know, like you said, I want to lose 10 pounds, boom. So I was just, I was just referring to that one mark, but, no, when I, when I use the word being, it's a, you know, it's a creative, flowing, active, living process, right? So it's always shifting and changing and moving. And it's fluid, and it's connected to the heart. And, and that's how that language speaks.

• 54:33Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 54:35Speaker 01

  That's really weird for you.

• 54:37Rich Roll?

  Want to hear my other New Year's resolution?

• 54:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, what is it?

• 54:41Rich Roll?

  Uh, being better about creating healthy boundaries.

• 54:45Speaker 01

  Hey, that's good. I'm glad you brought that up.

• 54:47Rich Roll?

  And, and that means, a lot of that for me also is learning how to say no. You know what I mean? Like, when, coming from, like, an insecure place, like, you know, I was very low self-esteem, insecure person for a long time, and I still battle with a lot of that, and, and, and when you're in that place, if something comes your way, you feel like, you know, at least for me, like, I always say, you know, I just say yes. You know, like, I say yes to stuff that maybe isn't the right thing for me to be doing, just because it shows up and I want somebody to like me, or I feel like if I say no,

• 55:28Rich Roll?

  then no other opportunity will come my way, and, and that belies like a lack of sense of self. You know what I mean? Like, if you're self-directed and you know who you are, then you know what's serving you and what's not, and what to say yes to and what to say no to. And I think I have a tendency to say yes to stuff too often. So it's learning how to say no, but doing it in a way that's healthy, like, creating healthy boundaries.

• 55:54Speaker 01

  Right. Well, I think, I mean, boundaries are a huge thing for me. And as a healer and in any spiritual work that I've done, I very, very strongly subscribe to self-responsibility. Okay, so we are all responsible for our own selves, for our own body, for our own energy field, and that includes boundaries. And so I do processes with my children and children that I work with where we actually visualize like a sun flaming inside your core. And you activate that and feel the heat building as you allow it to grow large until it's encompassing you completely

• 56:39Speaker 01

  in a flaming ball of golden light, like a sun. And it's four feet in every direction all around you. And I try to share that whenever I can because it's a very effective way to start to learn to how to manage your boundaries and how to go about in this ever-changing world of very extreme experiences. Some horrifying, quite frankly, and, you know, and others just not, just not your stuff, right? Just not something you want to get involved with. So if you learn how to start to use this energy, you will be more connected

• 57:22Speaker 01

  and find an easier way of living through these times.

• 57:28Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  Is that really weird?

• 57:31Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it was a little weird.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  They're gonna freak out about that?

• 57:33Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 57:33Speaker 01

  Okay, well...

• 57:34Rich Roll?

  We'll get some, we'll get some comments.

• 57:35Speaker 01

  If you download the, if you download... That was like, that was like really like sort of kindergarten level?

• 57:41Rich Roll?

  This is Julie...

• 57:42Speaker 01

  No, it's a very powerful one, but...

• 57:43Rich Roll?

  This is Julie holding back.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  No, I'm holding back. I was holding back then. No, if you, if you download the meditation, there's a, I think it's like the third track on there, there's a very detailed visualization about activating your light body and connecting you to your sole purpose. So if you, you know, just go with it. Like, don't, don't worry about understanding everything. If it feels resonant with you and you do it, just go with it and listen to it. And it's a visualization actually of merging you with a tree structure. And it's very, very effective in starting to activate your remembrance of how you used to do that in your past lives.

• 58:24Rich Roll?

  That's great.

• 58:28Speaker 01

  There you go. Aren't you happy I'm on your show today?

• 58:30Rich Roll?

  I can hear the subscribers signing off right now.

• 58:34Speaker 01

  Hey, boundaries. You brought it up.

• 58:38Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  I just took it to the next level.

• 58:41Rich Roll?

  I'm just talking about learning how to say no.

• 58:43Speaker 01

  How to say no. Well, that's, that's part of that. You just don't know it.

• 58:47Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I don't know.

• 58:49Speaker 01

  No, it's good. It's good to have boundaries. It's good to be focused and to know, you know, what, what your, what your path is and what your path isn't.

• 58:58Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 58:59Speaker 01

  That's very helpful.

• 59:00Rich Roll?

  And if you know your path and you do have some strong convictions about what your New Year's resolutions are, I think that's great. And I think it's great to have them and to be passionate about them and to have goals and to put energy behind those goals. And for me, that works, you know, and it's worked many times in my life. And it worked, you know, when I decided that I wanted to do Ultraman, that was a goal. That goal didn't occur on New Year's Day, you know, setting that goal. It occurred when it's, when the moment struck me, you know what I mean? So every day can be New Year's Day for you when inspiration strikes, right? So, you know, today's the day that we reflect on that.

• 59:42Rich Roll?

  But if, you know, in March, you know, you wake up and you feel like you were hit by a lightning bolt, then that's as good as New Year's Day to create a new resolution or set a goal. And so what I wanted to do is talk a little bit about my approach to, to goals and how to kind of take an insurance policy out on achieving them and some of the things that have worked for me. I mean, Once I set a goal, and I encourage all of you to not limit yourself, you know, dream big. Like, when I decided I was gonna do Ultraman, I mean, that was ludicrous. That was insane. You know, if I had run that by, you know, my peers, they would've all told me I was crazy and to pick something more reasonable or rational and... They did think you were crazy.

• 1:00:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah, they did, but, you know, I waited until I'd put some energy behind that before I even told anyone that that's what I was doing. So, you have to be, first of all, you have to dream big, don't limit yourself, you know, and when you do that interior work, when you do the meditation, when you do things like the Artist's Way and the journaling and all of that, and, you know, those sort of inspirations start to, you know, take root, it's important to nurture them and to believe that they're possible, you know, that you should not limit yourself and that you should, you know, basically say, if this

• 1:01:06Rich Roll?

  is what you wanna do, as ludicrous or as crazy or as far-fetched as it may sound, you know, set that goal and nurture it and be protective of it, though. You have to be careful about who you tell it to. You can't just go around telling everyone, especially if you don't have good boundaries and, you know, you're easily influenced by somebody else who's gonna say, "Well, you know, that's insane, you shouldn't do that." Yeah, well, there's no use... And then you kinda mope home and go, "Oh, maybe they're right, you know, I shouldn't..." Well, and you compromise the energy, too. Listen, most people, you know, unfortunately, like to rain on other people's parades. That's true. So, you have to be really careful. So, you know, keep it private for a while, if

• 1:01:48Rich Roll?

  that's what you need to do, and then start to create a plan around it. And it could be a very long-term plan, it can be a short-term plan, it depends on what the goal is, but, you know, when a goal seems so outlandish and insane...

• 1:02:04Rich Roll?

  I think that, excuse me, there's a couple of things that you can do to start to put it into action. And the first thing that I always do is I start at the end point of that goal. Like Ultraman is a race that takes place at the end of November every year. So it's on the calendar, right? For somebody else, it might be something that's not set to a specific month or year, but pick a reasonable period, you know, when you think it's plausible for you to achieve that on the calendar, and then work backwards from there and create interim stepping stone goals along the way. That can be really small,

• 1:02:43Rich Roll?

  achievable, little bite-sized chunks that work you towards that goal. So just because it's easy to conceptualize, let's use weight loss as an example. Let's say somebody's, you know, severely overweight and they want to lose 100 pounds because they're, you know, they're very obese. Well, that's a huge goal, right? That seems like, you know, that's a big challenge. Yeah, that's a big one. So how do you, you know, how do you do that? You can't just say, "Well, I'm going to eat better and, you know, walk on the treadmill every day." Like, you need to create a real plan and you need to get out the calendar and you need to create those stepping stone goals along the way. So, you know, it could be as simple as by the end of month one, I want to have lost one pound. You know, whatever it is, like, start with small, very

• 1:03:27Rich Roll?

  achievable things. And then when you achieve those, celebrate that. Like, give yourself a pat on the back. Reward yourself, you know. Go buy yourself something or do something that will gird your resolve and maintain your enthusiasm and keep you going to take you to that next stepping stone. And when you have those stepping stones in place, you don't have to spend that much time thinking about how crazy the big goal is because you're just focused on the next little stepping stone. And it's sort of like that analogy where, you know, if you're on the planet Earth and you're looking at, you're setting a trajectory to get to the moon and you're like one thousandth of a degree off, you know, and you get in your spaceship and head towards the moon and you're just ever so

• 1:04:11Rich Roll?

  slightly off, like you're gonna... Miss the moon by, you know, a hundred thousand miles or something, you know what I mean? Like, because when you, when you set on a trajectory and you just continue on that path, it might seem minute at first, but over time, you know, the difference can be vast. So you can't underestimate the power of these little stepping stones. And, and so that's the way I always approach it.

• 1:04:32Speaker 01

  That is powerful.

• 1:04:33Rich Roll?

  And it makes it very digestible and easy to begin. So that's the first thing. The second thing would be to surround yourself with an environment of people that encourage you and support this dream. And like I said, you know, you have to be protective of your dream and your goal. Like, you can't just go around talking about it to everybody, especially if you're influenced by, you know, negative-thinking people. So, so, you know, be judicious in that regard, but create supportive community around that, you know, whether it's your spouse. And if your spouse isn't supportive or doesn't believe in you, then find somebody else. Find somebody at work, or find a buddy, or find somebody that you can confide in

• 1:05:17Rich Roll?

  and talk to, who can either do it with you, or be your kind of compadre, or, you know, your board of advisors, or your board of directors as you do that. And, and also, and this goes back to boundaries, it's about limiting or, or eliminating completely the people from your life that are not supporting what you're trying to do.

• 1:05:38Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:05:39Rich Roll?

  This is a huge thing, you know, and this is a lesson that I've learned in, that in the hard way, many times in my life, where, you know, not everybody wants you to succeed, unfortunately. And, and, you know, those, if you're surrounded by those kinds of people, you need to find a way to create boundaries around them, where it's not okay for them to talk to you that way, or they're not, they're not privy to, you know, this part of your life, or you can somehow limit your exposure to them. I mean, look, if your boss is a dick, like, it's tough, right? But there's strategies and tactics for protecting yourself around these kinds of people, so that that energy doesn't penetrate and ultimately undermine what you're trying to do.

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  That's the energy seal that I just gave you. It's exactly what that's for.

• 1:06:24Rich Roll?

  Right. And then at the same time, you know, when you have that supportive community that is a positive reinforcement for you, that creates accountability, right? So when they know what you're trying to do, the more specifically they know what you're trying to do, the better. Like if they know, you know, at the end of January, you have that stepping stone goal, that you're gonna lose that one pound or whatever, then you're accountable to them. And that brings up another, I think, important point, which is, it isn't just the positive reinforcement, it's also the negative reinforcement. You know, there is, there is, yeah, there is something to be said for, you know, that accountability of people keeping you honest, like you don't wanna-

• 1:07:05Speaker 01

  You're gonna chop your finger off if you don't meet your goal?

• 1:07:08Rich Roll?

  Well, just, you know, they're gonna know that you failed, or whatever, and that's the pressure that we're talking about. You know, that's the pressure on the carbon that creates the diamond that I think that you need as a driver, you know, for human nature to move forward, you know, and be on a proper trajectory. Do you not agree with that?

• 1:07:27Speaker 01

  Not really.

• 1:07:28Rich Roll?

  There was somebody who was talking about this, I was hearing about a gym, that, you know how, like, basically, the business model for like, a health club or a gym is, you know, you pay a monthly, you pay a fee, and then you pay a monthly membership, and then everyone stops going, and they make-

• 1:07:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:07:41Rich Roll?

  The only way they can survive is that they're always getting new members that don't go to the gym.

• 1:07:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:07:45Rich Roll?

  So, and, and, and of course, the people that are paying this money, like, they're not getting any healthier, because they lose their enthusiasm for going. And I can't remember who it was, maybe it was Tim Ferriss that was talking about these- A much better idea for a gym business model would be to, uh, I think that they, it was some kind of like, shaming thing, where like, like if you didn't lose the weight, or whatever, they put a picture of you up on the wall, and they charge you more money, or you pay them, you pay them upfront, and if you're going, then they start giving you the money back.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  Oh, then you-

• 1:08:20Rich Roll?

  But if you don't, you know, there was some kind of negative reinforcement aspect to it, that actually would-

• 1:08:23Speaker 01

  Right, I mean, this is the thing-

• 1:08:24Rich Roll?

  Get people to actually follow through and do it.

• 1:08:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think we're, I think we're on the, you know, this is again, the edge of discovering a new way, or, you know, maybe some alternate ways of, of achieving goals. And I mean, I unders, I am no athlete, and I understand with what you do, and with what, you know, athletes do, that, you know, I mean, you used to just freak if you missed a training session, because, you know, you were, you were- You know, very aware that X equals Y, you know, like if you put in these number of workouts in this manner, then it's going to produce this result. And, you know, that's a very tangible, specific thing for you. And I was, I think, driving you crazy because I was talking about finding a way to train

• 1:09:10Speaker 01

  from your heart, just spontaneously, you know, accessing like a higher way of actually achieving, but doing it for the love of it, instead of for the pain of it. And Byron, Byron Davies, is this the second time I've talked about him on the podcast?

• 1:09:28Rich Roll?

  Byron Davis.

• 1:09:29Speaker 01

  Davis, sorry. I don't know. So, Rich, introduce Byron Davis, because, anyway.

• 1:09:34Rich Roll?

  So Byron Davis is a friend of mine. He, uh, he was an amazing collegiate swimmer. He was almost the first African-American swimmer to make the Olympic team back.

• 1:09:47Speaker 01

  I think we already talked about this.

• 1:09:48Rich Roll?

  Nineteen ninety-two, yeah. He's a, he was an incredible swimmer and he's been, and now he's like a pastor and a life coach, um, business coach.

• 1:09:57Speaker 01

  Beautiful wife, beautiful family, beautiful people.

• 1:10:01Rich Roll?

  His wife, uh, is a, uh, pro volleyball player.

• 1:10:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, gorgeous, homeschool their kids. But anyway, I think I, I'm sure I spoke about them because I'm kind of remembering. Uh, but Byron came in and talked to you about how he learned to train from the heart and how one day he woke up and it was some big race and he had the flu and there was no way that he was racing against someone who was very fast. And he said that somewhere during the race, he just, he just gave it all up. He surrendered, he let it all go. And sometime during the race, something else came into him and he won that day. And he said that that, and I remember being so happy that he was there at our kitchen table because there, there, you know, and there is some place where...

• 1:10:50Speaker 01

  The hardness of it all has got to shift into the love of it all. And I don't know how you do that because I see what, you know, what these amazing athletes do and what you do and I could never do, you know, one minute of what you do in that way.

• 1:11:05Rich Roll?

  Well, there's wisdom in that. I mean, for me, my scientific brain is, yeah, I need to do these certain workouts over this period of time and that, yes, that will, that will get my body into the place that it needs to be in order to compete at the level that I want to compete at. And if I'm missing those workouts or they're not happening, then yeah, I get anxious because I'm like, I'm not, I'm not, you know, doing to my body what needs to be done in order to build it to that place. And that does create anxiety for me, but you know, life is bigger than that. And, you know, there is, you know, there is a place for finding more joy and not getting caught up in that anxiety in it. So I think that those things are not mutually exclusive.

• 1:11:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, they go together. But I just, I feel like there has to be more...

• 1:11:53Rich Roll?

  I mean, that goes, and that goes to what we're talking about here of being journey-oriented instead of destination-oriented.

• 1:12:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:01Rich Roll?

  Because if you're not enjoying the journey, then what is the, what is the point or what is it that you're, that you're doing? You know what I mean? And it's like the person who, and I talk about this all the time, forgive me if you've read something where I wrote about this, but, you know, if you, you know, if you hate running, then don't run, you know, like find, if you're trying to be more, if your New Year's resolution is I want to get more fit, but you hate running, then don't run, you know, like go find something else that you enjoy doing. The point is to find greater enjoyment with your physical self on the way towards that fitness, right? And that is the way that you're going to create something sustainable over time as

• 1:12:43Rich Roll?

  opposed to reaching that goal of losing 10 pounds and then saying, well, I'm so glad I lost 10 pounds and I don't have to run anymore.

• 1:12:57Speaker 01

  But let's talk about, share with me a little bit, when you were training for the last Ultraman race. And you know, and I'm cooking at home with the kids, or playing music, or whatever, and I just see you leave and come back, and I have no idea what you did.

• 1:13:11Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:13:12Speaker 01

  And oftentimes, we don't even ask what in fact you did. But you were training a lot, I think, in the hills, on the bike, and your bike performance was really, really happening. The numbers were really good. I don't understand what the numbers are, but I just know that the numbers were really good. But you explained to me at one point, because I was like, "Well, you've been out on your bike all day," and you explained to me that you were riding so hard, you were riding at the point where you were in, like, a maximum amount of pain that you could tolerate. Do you remember that?

• 1:13:45Rich Roll?

  Not really.

• 1:13:46Speaker 01

  You don't?

• 1:13:47Rich Roll?

  Reminds me.

• 1:13:48Speaker 01

  But did you ride at that level? That's when you were training, you were riding at a level, pushing a level where you were in a lot of pain.

• 1:13:55Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:56Speaker 01

  And so...

• 1:13:57Rich Roll?

  What's the...

• 1:13:58Speaker 01

  I'm just asking, you know, so is that necessary before a race? Or is that, was that just, you know, one...

• 1:14:06Rich Roll?

  Well, every workout has its purpose, right? And not every workout is the same. So every time I go out on the bike, that doesn't mean I'm doing the same thing. So I don't recall that conversation, but it was probably a day where I was doing some kind of tempo work or interval work, where it was, you know, the goal was to sustain a certain threshold level of watts...

• 1:14:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:14:26Rich Roll?

  ...over a certain period of time. And I'd had, like, a breakthrough where I was able to sustain a higher level of watts than I'd been able to sustain prior to that. And that means, you know, kind of tolerating a pain threshold for an extended period of time.

• 1:14:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:14:44Rich Roll?

  And that's just part of training.

• 1:14:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:14:46Rich Roll?

  You know what I mean? Like, you learn to embrace and love that part of it. And you learn to get comfortable with the discomfort.

• 1:14:51Speaker 01

  Well, and that's...

• 1:14:52Rich Roll?

  And that's a meditation.

• 1:14:53Speaker 01

  You know? It's like you're going beyond that sensation, and you're just, you become an observer to it, rather than all involved in it.

• 1:15:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah. It's not that different from yoga, where the asanas are all about, sort of, preparing the mind for the shavasana, the meditation part.

• 1:15:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:15:10Rich Roll?

  And the sort of postures that you go through, and that rhythm, and that flow of, you know, doing those different poses, is really about...

• 1:15:19Rich Roll?

  Quieting the mind in a certain regard, like the exertion that's involved with that and the concentration quiets the mind so that when you get to the end and you're lying on your back and you're doing the meditation part, you're already, you're kind of ready for that, right?

• 1:15:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:15:35Rich Roll?

  And so in cycling, or in running, or in swimming, or any kind of endurance activity, and I mean, those are just the ones I have experience with, I'm sure there's other things, but for me personally, when I'm in that kind of, you know, doing that kind of threshold work, or even just the aerobic work, the exertion is like this, it's like this pipe cleaner for your brain, you know what I mean? It's sort of like, it just, all the cobwebs get blown out, and it's a very pure experience where, you know, especially the threshold work, because you are tolerating a certain level of pain, and you're, you're learning to adapt to that so that you can be comfortable with it, like I said, and when you're in that, it's a, it's a kind of a charged state

• 1:16:18Rich Roll?

  of mind and body, but that does become kind of an active meditation, because you are, you do have to be kind of super-present with what you're doing.

• 1:16:27Speaker 01

  And so when you're training, do you, like when you're, do you set intentions, like during your ride, do you ever like, you know, like make a theme for a ride, for like some information to come in, like, what I'm interested to know is, is, are you, are you taking the moment to tap into that, like afterwards, either, either after by sitting, or through intention of like asking, like for some concept or body of information to come through, or messages, messages from your soul, I would say?

• 1:17:03Rich Roll?

  [laughing]

• 1:17:04Speaker 01

  Could you please comment on that?

• 1:17:05Rich Roll?

  I don't think that I do that, but I will say this, I will say that there is, it's sort of like, you know, being burned in the flames, you know, if you go out for a ride and you're gonna do some really hard threshold work over like 120, 150 miles, and you're gonna be out on the bike for six, seven, eight hours, or whatever, it is, you know, when you're done with that, like you're so cooked, like it's, everything has been burned-

• 1:17:36Speaker 01

  You're empty.

• 1:17:37Rich Roll?

  -burned away. Well, not, not empty, I don't think empty is the right word, it's-

• 1:17:43Speaker 01

  Plugged in.

• 1:17:44Rich Roll?

  It's different from that. It's sort of like you've been purified. You know, like everything negative has been burned out of you and you're in like this pure state.

• 1:17:55Speaker 01

  It's beautiful. I know. I love you after an Ultraman race.

• 1:18:00Rich Roll?

  And that's a very addictive feeling, I will say. It's the same for a super long run.

• 1:18:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:05Rich Roll?

  You know, and that's why, as I, you know, over the years, my sort of threshold for... Well, my body has become more, increasingly more efficient at bearing the training load, right? So, when I first started training for Ultraman back in 2008, it was like, you know, even a shorter run would take a lot out of me. And then, as you become more and more efficient, your body becomes more and more used to this kind of training load and this volume, you know, going out and going on a long run doesn't necessarily do it for you anymore. Like, you have to go longer.

• 1:18:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:18:40Rich Roll?

  And so, as an addict, it's like, that's perfect, right? Like, oh, I need more. You know, you start... The danger is, you start to chase that dragon, you know?

• 1:18:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:18:48Rich Roll?

  But you do need, like, you know, you, you know, you do have to go out longer and longer in order to get that feeling, that ascetic purity kind of feeling that I think that I'm always seeking when I'm doing it.

• 1:19:01Speaker 01

  I'm just wondering if you, if you, if you took it to the next level and you actually programmed some of your rides and your trainings, if you could be looking for that thing that Byron was talking about. It's something when he surrendered and he let it go, like, I'm not gonna solve it, then something came in and in fact propelled him farther. So, I would be interested to see if you, you, if you did what you do, which is beautiful, which is powerful, amazing practice, but then, take it up a notch and, and either before your training or during your training, dedicate your ride or your training to a specific intention, you know? Or let's say you want creative inspiration for your next book, or, you know,

• 1:19:44Speaker 01

  and you say, you say with intention to your soul, "Please, provide me with this and I'm gonna dedicate this ride to that." And then you let go and you just do your thing and see if something comes in.

• 1:19:57Rich Roll?

  All right. Well, I'll try that.

• 1:19:58Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 1:19:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:59Speaker 01

  Might work.

• 1:20:00Rich Roll?

  I'll report back.

• 1:20:03Speaker 01

  Next podcast.

• 1:20:04Rich Roll?

  On the next podcast. Yeah, no, that's a good idea. Want to try that.

• 1:20:07Speaker 01

  You know, it could be anything. It could be, you know, it could be finances. It could be, it could be increased performance, you know. Call in the energy that is outside. You're not just a physical body. Okay. Call me crazy, and I'm not going to quote a bunch of science because I'm not a scientist, but you can look it up.

• 1:20:26Rich Roll?

  I can call you crazy.

• 1:20:27Speaker 01

  You can call me crazy. You won't be the first. But, um, no, so, so ask for that extra thing outside of yourself to come and assist you. And it's the same thing like when I'm teaching warrior pose, and you haven't been in my yoga class in a few weeks, but when we're in warrior, I just hold that for a pretty long time, very, very, very long time. And then if you turn your palms up, um, and I'm speaking of warrior two, right? When you turn your palms up and you just make the intention that you're going to allow something to hold you up, you'll feel an energy holding your arms up. And suddenly,

• 1:21:10Speaker 01

  you've taken yourself out of it to a certain extent. So I think there are some interesting combinations to play with in that, with the training that might enhance performance.

• 1:21:22Rich Roll?

  I'll check it out.

• 1:21:23Speaker 01

  Check it out.

• 1:21:24Rich Roll?

  All right. Back to goal setting.

• 1:21:28Speaker 01

  So where were you?

• 1:21:29Rich Roll?

  Hello?

• 1:21:30Speaker 01

  No, I liked it. You're, I love your goal setting. You're so focused and you're, you're actually quite skilled at it.

• 1:21:36Rich Roll?

  We were talking about interim goals, stepping stone goals, and the other thing I want, oh, and then creating community and accountability. Um, I think the other thing that's important to bear in mind is that we're human beings and we're not perfect. And, you know, you're going to fail, you're going to misstep, you're going to, you know, miss a workout, or you're going to, you know, not achieve that next stepping stone goal or whatever it is. And as human beings, it's natural to go, to get deflated, or disappointed, or, you know, lose enthusiasm, say, this is too hard, and, you know, I can't do it, and I don't want to do this anymore, or just forget it. And I think that's particularly true with people that are interested in experimenting with a plant-based diet. They're like, oh, no, you know, no meat, no dairy, like.

• 1:22:21Rich Roll?

  Alright, I'll try it and they go a week and then they slip and have ice cream and they're like, forget it.

• 1:22:25Speaker 01

  Right, throw the whole thing away.

• 1:22:27Rich Roll?

  And you throw the whole thing out because you've made one mistake, you know, as opposed to taking a different approach and perspective, which is, alright, I misstepped, like, what's the next right thing? You know, how can I get immediately back on the program, back on the wagon? Like, what's the next right action? And just using that as a learning experience and say, that was interesting that I did that. Hmm, you know, what can I learn from that? Okay, let's keep moving forward, as opposed to just, ah, forget it.

• 1:22:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, dealing in absolutes is very not helpful.

• 1:23:01Rich Roll?

  No.

• 1:23:01Speaker 01

  Very confining and judgmental.

• 1:23:03Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:23:04Speaker 01

  And violent, actually.

• 1:23:06Rich Roll?

  Well, I tried that, but it didn't work for me. Well, you know, what didn't work? Like, you made a mistake. Well, congratulations, you're a human being, you know what I mean? And I think that that prevents people from, who might benefit, or might enjoy, or might experience, you know, dramatic health benefits from checking out a plant-based diet, from even considering it. Because they're saying, well, I couldn't do it, so I'm not even gonna try. Or, I tried for a couple of days and it didn't work. So I think it's important to, to give yourself permission to fail. And, you know, greatness only comes with failure. You have to fail in order to achieve. And, you know, the greatest successes in the world in every field probably failed a thousand more times than they succeeded.

• 1:23:49Rich Roll?

  So it's giving yourself permission to fall on your face. And it goes back to the Icarus thing that we were talking about. It's like, you have to dare to fly to the sun, you know, in order to get to the next level. And you're gonna, you know, maybe your wings are gonna melt, but then you, you know, you build some new wings and you get at it again. And I think when you're in that mentality, when you're not afraid to fail, or, or you're willing to fail, and that kind of failure and setbacks are just part of the process, as opposed to, you know, the one thing that you're gonna shame yourself for, or whatever, that you're going to be more successful.

• 1:24:27Speaker 01

  Yes, absolutely. That's wise.

• 1:24:31Rich Roll?

  That's it?

• 1:24:32Speaker 01

  That's all, what else?

• 1:24:36Rich Roll?

  I don't know, what else is?

• 1:24:37Speaker 01

  No, I'm saying, the other thing that I could add to that is that, you know...

• 1:24:44Speaker 01

  That's why it's called a practice, you know? It's like, how many times, you know? It's not like you, it's not like suddenly you're, you know, you achieve something and then you're there and you're static. You know, you're always moving. So, life is a process of becoming, and so you may have to make that same decision to forgive over and over and over again.

• 1:25:08Rich Roll?

  And that's okay.

• 1:25:09Speaker 01

  We're becoming, right?

• 1:25:10Rich Roll?

  That's okay.

• 1:25:11Speaker 01

  So, yeah, and it, you can, you can be born anew in each moment, and so you can decide in each moment to be nonjudgmental, to drop the judgment.

• 1:25:22Rich Roll?

  Towards yourself.

• 1:25:23Speaker 01

  Towards everyone, yeah, towards, towards yourself, you know, absolutely, and towards everyone else. I mean, how about, like, we just be gentle with ourselves and others?

• 1:25:36Speaker 01

  And allowing.

• 1:25:37Rich Roll?

  I don't know.

• 1:25:38Speaker 01

  And, you know, really, how can you, how can you sit and judge another person's process? You are not that person. You are not that being. You do not stand in the exact circumstance, you know? History, karmic lineage, soul path, you know, energy, you just, it's, it's really just,

• 1:26:02Speaker 01

  not, not useful, not helpful.

• 1:26:07Rich Roll?

  We're talking about goals.

• 1:26:09Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:26:11Speaker 01

  And you're talking about...

• 1:26:12Rich Roll?

  You're just going off on a tangent. Can't, you can't, you can't keep focused on...

• 1:26:16Speaker 01

  What do you mean, you're talking about goals?

• 1:26:18Rich Roll?

  You can't keep focused on the subject.

• 1:26:19Speaker 01

  What did you just say about goals?

• 1:26:21Rich Roll?

  I said, allow yourself to fail.

• 1:26:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:24Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:26:24Speaker 01

  And I said, because you said, don't throw in the whole towel.

• 1:26:28Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:26:28Speaker 01

  And that, was that like, too far up a leap?

• 1:26:31Rich Roll?

  I don't know, maybe.

• 1:26:32Speaker 01

  All right, well...

• 1:26:35Speaker 01

  Go to your next point on your, on your paper.

• 1:26:39Speaker 01

  It says point five or something? Go ahead.

• 1:26:42Rich Roll?

  I have, I have one more point.

• 1:26:44Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm ready.

• 1:26:45Rich Roll?

  You'll love this one, actually.

• 1:26:46Speaker 01

  I'm ready for it.

• 1:26:47Rich Roll?

  Which is to check your ego at the door.

• 1:26:49Speaker 01

  Oh, that's good.

• 1:26:50Rich Roll?

  And don't make it about yourself.

• 1:26:53Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:26:53Rich Roll?

  You know? So, tie that goal to something greater than your little, you know, your little goal. Like, make it, make it broader than that, you know? And not make it about yourself.

• 1:27:07Speaker 01

  Can you elaborate on that a little bit more?

• 1:27:09Rich Roll?

  Well, I mean, I think you see people do it in endurance sports all the time. Like, they're gonna do an Ironman, but they're gonna raise money for, you know, a charity or something.

• 1:27:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:27:20Rich Roll?

  You know what I mean? Like, they don't just make it about their thing. They bring something else into the equation that makes it richer and more valuable in a broader sense than just their one little accomplishment or thing that they're trying to do.

• 1:27:34Speaker 01

  But if it's your first one, then you can make it about yourself.

• 1:27:41Rich Roll?

  You think?

• 1:27:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:27:44Rich Roll?

  What do you mean, your first one?

• 1:27:45Speaker 01

  Your first race.

• 1:27:46Rich Roll?

  Oh, yeah. All right. Yeah, you could do that. I just think it's better if you don't. Like, I think it's better if there's a higher purpose to it than just you.

• 1:27:59Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 1:28:00Rich Roll?

  All right.

• 1:28:00Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 1:28:01Rich Roll?

  You agree. Okay. Nothing more to say at that? That's really it. And I think that the other thing is to do kind of like what Julie was saying, which is to not be overly rigid and to learn to flow with it. So, let's say you're coming up on that stepping stone goal. It's your third or fourth stepping stone along the way, and you're not gonna make it. And, you know, being gentle with yourself and saying, "Okay, well, I didn't, you know, I didn't make it this time, but I'm not gonna allow myself to be discouraged, and I'm just gonna flow with it and rebuild." So, it's being structured in the sense that, you know, you will get out the calendar and create that schedule and that program, but also allowing yourself some flexibility within that

• 1:28:46Rich Roll?

  because, you know, life doesn't always flow according to a perfect scheduling calendar. And that gets back to what you were talking about when I would miss a workout and I would get frustrated and angry. And it's been a journey for me to learn how to, like, flow with that and be more malleable than I would like to be.

• 1:29:05Speaker 01

  Yes, and you're doing a fine job with that anyway.

• 1:29:08Rich Roll?

  You think so?

• 1:29:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, definitely. Definite transformation going on for all of us.

• 1:29:14Rich Roll?

  And the final one that I think everyone should do in 2013?

• 1:29:19Speaker 01

  What's that?

• 1:29:20Rich Roll?

  Eat more plants.

• 1:29:21Speaker 01

  Yes, eat more plants, definitely.

• 1:29:24Rich Roll?

  It all starts with what you put in your body, people, right? There's some broken record saying that.

• 1:29:31Speaker 01

  No, but it's so, it's been so extraordinary being here at Common Ground and, you know, we understand that not everybody can be in Kauai and, you know, we don't take it for granted even one second that we're here. One of the really amazing things has been that, you know, we're kind of secluded and isolated and, you know, we're vegan, predominantly vegan in our family, except one of our girls eats, you know, a couple of eggs once in a while, or she casually stopped eating eggs, she's eating, I don't know, yogurt or something. But mostly, we're vegan, and so I've had to, you know, really focus around the kitchen.

• 1:30:13Speaker 01

  And so I would say our diet has gone up a notch, really, as a family since we've been here.

• 1:30:19Rich Roll?

  It definitely has, and, you know, just because we eat a plant-based diet doesn't mean that we're, you know, super perfect. Like, when we're in LA, we, you know, shop at all the normal grocery stores and, you know, I like a potato chip once in a while.

• 1:30:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, we haven't had much chips.

• 1:30:34Rich Roll?

  And living here in the remote North Shore, like, we're eating food that's grown from the field, right across from the yurt, and, you know, we're just sort of, you know, being more self-sustained in our little environment here. And my nutrition has definitely improved, and the quality of the meals has gone up, and then I think the nutritional value of the foods that we're eating, because they're locally grown and the way that they're harvested here, I can feel the difference, and it feels good.

• 1:31:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, and we were helping out in the field today, and all the kids were washing kale and harvesting, pulling carrots and radishes and charred, and...

• 1:31:17Speaker 01

  It's pretty awesome. I really, really feel like this year for a lot of us is going to be learning how to grow our own food. And that's whether you're in a city, or wherever you are, however you need to do it. But that's going to be something that I'm going to enjoy getting deeper into.

• 1:31:35Rich Roll?

  I think it's important. And today, I tweeted an article by Mark Bittman, who's a writer for the New York Times on food. And he wrote a great opinion piece today about how our food system has to change. But it was very level-headed in the sense that, you know, he's saying it's not going to happen overnight. Like, this is a long, long process. And, you know, they realized that tobacco caused cancer like 200 years ago, but it wasn't until 1964, where there was a correlation between tobacco and cancer. Like, they figured that out a long time ago. But it wasn't until 1964 that anybody kind of started to even say it publicly, or to do anything about it. Like, these are movements that take a

• 1:32:17Rich Roll?

  very, very long time. And I think that there's a general awareness that our food system right now is not sustainable for health reasons, for ecological reasons, for economic reasons, for all these reasons. But there's no easy fix, and there's no consensus on how to fix it. Like, there are no clearly articulated, stated objectives right now about how to change it. That this is just a groundswell movement, and it's going to take some time. And I think that that's wise and true. But we all can take responsibility for that. And one of the things that we can do, you know, you and I can do, we can, you know, we can start to learn about how to grow our own food. And we can learn more about how to get food that's sourced close to where we live. And we can, we can vote with our dollar,

• 1:33:02Rich Roll?

  and we can start to make those little changes. And, and, and, and I think that that, if more people did that, you know, it would start to make a difference.

• 1:33:12Speaker 01

  Right, absolutely. You know, and they're all steps that make a big difference down the line, you know. So...

• 1:33:18Rich Roll?

  So for 2013, make it green.

• 1:33:21Speaker 01

  Make it green.

• 1:33:22Rich Roll?

  Eat more plants.

• 1:33:24Speaker 01

  Absolutely. So, are we about complete?

• 1:33:28Rich Roll?

  Do you have something you want to say?

• 1:33:29Speaker 01

  Well, I was going to say that I wish everyone a radiant, connected, plant-based 2013.

• 1:33:44Rich Roll?

  You don't sound that excited about that.

• 1:33:46Speaker 01

  I am, I'm really excited about it.

• 1:33:48Rich Roll?

  I'm totally excited about 2013. I think it's gonna be amazing. 2012 was incredible and, you know, we have a lot to be grateful for. And we're in this beautiful place now for 10 more days. We're gonna make the most of it, the most of it that we can. And we're going back to LA and we're gonna figure out what the next thing is.

• 1:34:09Speaker 01

  And we have no idea and we'll keep you posted.

• 1:34:11Rich Roll?

  Exactly.

• 1:34:12Speaker 01

  No, we've got exciting things on the horizon and anyway, just be good to yourselves, be good to your community, and live your heart.

• 1:34:27Rich Roll?

  Live your heart.

• 1:34:28Speaker 01

  So that we all can reap the benefits of that, of sharing in that experience with you.

• 1:34:33Rich Roll?

  Find your heart and live it. Live your art.

• 1:34:36Speaker 01

  Live your art.

• 1:34:37Rich Roll?

  Live your art.

• 1:34:38Speaker 01

  There you go, I like that.

• 1:34:39Rich Roll?

  That's what I like. So, alright, cool. So, we can wrap it up, I think, with that.

• 1:34:45Speaker 01

  Okay, beautiful.

• 1:34:46Rich Roll?

  I'm getting a lot of emails from people who read Finding Ultra and wanna know about the detox cleanse, because in the book, there were a couple times in the book where I said, you know, Jai Lifestyle, we're gonna have this, you know, some detox and cleansing programs to do a juice cleanse. And the intention, when the book, when the, the intention was that we would have these products ready for sale by the time the book came out. That proved in actuality to be a very difficult task. The R&D was challenging and to be able to kinda put the products out that we wanted to put out, it was going to be very risky for us and tricky to do it the way that we wanted to. And ultimately, we were gonna

• 1:35:31Rich Roll?

  end up like, losing money on it and not, and not making money on it.

• 1:35:35Speaker 01

  No, and also, I mean, it's also just the safety and all the, just to do it right, to make sure what we're offering to you is in the right caliber and, you know, what we want and make sure that it's the good, it's the right thing. So it just took us a little while to get that mixed together.

• 1:35:48Rich Roll?

  Well, so ultimately, we decided not to come out with a product for those reasons. So I get a lot of emails, like I read the book and it says, "Go to J- Joy Lifestyle.

• 1:35:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:35:55Rich Roll?

  Find the cleansing program and all of that and I can't find it because it's and the reason is because it's not there because we didn't do it so. But the good news is is that Julie and I are in the middle of creating a series of premium, high-quality videos that will take you guys through a seven-day fruit and vegetable juice cleanse, soup to nuts. Our first shooting day is tomorrow.

• 1:36:22Speaker 01

  Tomorrow.

• 1:36:23Rich Roll?

  And it's going to be quite the production. It's this is going to be a really cool thing. We're going to be very, very detailed. We're going to go through each day. Here's how you're going to do it. Here's what you're going to eat. Here's how you're going to feel. And literally, you know, take all the second guessing out of it and we're going to provide you with all the information and the links to the products that you're going to need and all that good stuff. So we're looking forward. It's going to be.

• 1:36:46Speaker 01

  And we're going to do it right along with you.

• 1:36:48Rich Roll?

  Exactly. So it's going to be a couple of months before we, you know, get this thing.

• 1:36:52Speaker 01

  Sorry.

• 1:36:53Rich Roll?

  Done and, you know, it would be great to have it available on January 1st.

• 1:36:58Speaker 01

  Today.

• 1:36:59Rich Roll?

  Because I know everybody, you know, this is the time where everybody wants to kind of start fresh and table razzle and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, it just it's taking more time.

• 1:37:07Speaker 01

  It's okay.

• 1:37:08Rich Roll?

  So it's going to be a couple of months before.

• 1:37:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, and in actuality, I mean, once you get the hang of it, you'll be doing it like four times a year or three times a year and then it sort of just seeps into your lifestyle and then your diet sort of shifts. So it's a, you know, it's really sort of like a long-term wellness lifestyle thing. It's not like you would just necessarily do it once and then be done, so.

• 1:37:27Rich Roll?

  Right. So look for that in coming months and we'll keep you posted on how that unfolds. But if you're if you're confused and you've been going to Joy Lifestyle looking for that stuff and you're not finding it.

• 1:37:36Speaker 01

  We're sorry.

• 1:37:37Rich Roll?

  That's why. But the other good news is that our vitamin B12 spray.

• 1:37:43Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:37:44Rich Roll?

  Supplement spray finally is out. Took a little while to get that configured and ready, but we're really excited about that. If you're on a plant-based diet. It is incredibly important that you supplement with vitamin B12. In fact, most people irrespective of diet have been found to be vitamin B12 deficient. So even if you're eating the standard American diet, there's a chance that your vitamin... If you're not sure, just go to your doctor. You can get a simple test and find out. But if you are eating a plant-based diet or predominantly plant-based diet...

• 1:38:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, you need your B12.

• 1:38:18Rich Roll?

  You need it because it is the one nutrient that is not found in the plant kingdom. So you must supplement with it.

• 1:38:23Speaker 01

  And this is a spray and it's just one spray in the mouth and it has a really good taste. I know, I'm just sort of interjecting here. It's just a spray. One spray is all you need and the kids love it. And we've been using it every day, actually.

• 1:38:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah, for sure. You can get, and I talked about this in the book too, there's a lot of foods that are supplemented that have vitamin, they're vitamin B12 fortified like breakfast cereals and almond milk and coconut milk, stuff like that. But the kind of B12 that they're using is not a very easily metabolized version of it. It's one that has to be processed by the liver to create the methylcobalamin, which is the pure form that we're using. And that's an inefficient process. So our spray is methylcobalamin. It's the purest form. Your liver doesn't have, it doesn't have to go through some intricate biomechanical process in your liver. It's already bioavailable to you.

• 1:39:23Rich Roll?

  And so it's, you know, it's a top-notch product and we're really proud and happy to offer it to you. It's only 20 bucks. So check that out on Jai Lifestyle. And what else do we have? If you want to check out Julie's music, go to srimati music dot com, S-R-I-M-A-T-I music dot com. And on Jai Lifestyle, we have our cookbook. So New Year's Day, you want to start getting going on your plant-based diet, you can check out our digital download, e-cookbook, 77 pages of awesomeness.

• 1:39:55Speaker 01

  And that's great. And if you want to check out the meditation and the...

• 1:40:05Speaker 01

  Energy sealing technique that we discussed at length today. You can download that also off of our website. It's actually not that easy to find. You have to go, I think you have to go on the first page and then find meditation, and then click on meditation, and then it's behind that. It's called Jai Release. And it's a 30-minute program. It has two of my original songs on it. And the humming, so it's a four-step. You hum. There's a ganapati mantra, which is the Ganesh Remover of Obstacles, which is a wonderful energy to call in the new year with. And then there's the Tree Seal Visualization, which you just listened to.

• 1:40:47Speaker 01

  And then there's a song called "Mother of Mine", which is the title of my debut album, which is also on this program. So, the whole thing is 30 minutes. You can just put it on your iPod. There are instructions. And then, after that, you just do the four tracks. It's around 30 minutes. And I would be very interested to hear your results after doing it for, let's say, 40 days in a row.

• 1:41:16Rich Roll?

  Why 40, why 40 and not 30?

• 1:41:18Speaker 01

  Oh, just because, I don't know. I mean, 20 could make a big shift, but it's just if you just get consistent. So like, some days you're going to be distracted, some days you're going to have monkey mind, some days you're going to, you know, feel really deep. But if you just take it up as a practice, and don't judge it, and it's all there for you. It's a pretty pleasant meditation practice to sit through. And what it will do is clear out any residue from the humming, supercharge you with Ganesh's energy, the Remover of Obstacles, and seal you in your own energy field and connect you to your divine purpose, and then bless you with a little love of the great mother.

• 1:42:02Speaker 01

  So, it's a pleasant 30 minutes, and if you do it for, you know, a month or 40 days...

• 1:42:13Speaker 01

  You will see transformation in your life. I certainly did in mine.

• 1:42:19Rich Roll?

  All right, so check that out. Julie needs Twitter followers.

• 1:42:23Speaker 01

  I do.

• 1:42:24Rich Roll?

  Jaisseed on Twitter, J-A-I-S-E-E-D.

• 1:42:27Speaker 01

  Follow me, follow me.

• 1:42:29Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and I'm @RichRoll.

• 1:42:31Speaker 01

  You have enough followers.

• 1:42:33Rich Roll?

  No, I don't.

• 1:42:35Speaker 01

  And also you can follow me on Instagram @shrimati, S-R-I-M-E-T-I.

• 1:42:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's right. I'm Rich Roll on Instagram.

• 1:42:43Speaker 01

  And Rich has some awesome photos.

• 1:42:45Rich Roll?

  I would highly suggest that if you're kicking off your new nutrition regime for 2013, that you consider a Vitamix purchase.

• 1:42:54Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, absolutely.

• 1:42:56Rich Roll?

  It's an expensive blender. I understand that. It is not cheap. But it is life transforming, this thing. Now, I couldn't live without it. I know, we travel with it. It's an amazing contraption. It will make juice or liquid out of literally anything. You can make everything from pasta sauces and soups to your morning smoothies to everything.

• 1:43:15Speaker 01

  See, what have I made this week? I've made homemade tomato sauce, homemade mole sauce. I made a strawberry cashew cheesecake last night. I made an amazing coconut kale mango chia hemp smoothie with Jirepaire in it this morning.

• 1:43:35Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:43:36Speaker 01

  And mushroom gravies. I make pesto in it. All kinds of stuff.

• 1:43:43Rich Roll?

  You could literally make anything. So the point is, you should think about getting it. And if you are on the, if you are ready to make that purchase, you can click the banner ad on RichRoll.com. On the homepage, there's a Vitamix banner ad, and you'll get free shipping. If you buy it on, if you want to buy it off Amazon, just click through the banner, the Amazon banner ad at RichRoll.com on the blog page or the podcast page. It'll throw a few nickels in our pot to keep this thing going. And actually, if you're going to buy anything on Amazon, we would appreciate it if you click through that banner if you want to support the show. It would help us out a lot. Oh, you know what?

• 1:44:26Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:44:26Rich Roll?

  If people want to check out some Vitamix recipes, they can go to my YouTube page.

• 1:44:35Speaker 01

  Oh, that's right.

• 1:44:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's RichRoll66 on YouTube. We have a whole bunch of videos of us making stuff and we use the Vitamix, you know, post-run workout stuff, mushroom gravy, holiday cooking, all sorts of things.

• 1:44:49Speaker 01

  That'd be cool.

• 1:44:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you can do that. And what else? I think that's it.

• 1:44:53Speaker 01

  And don't forget to check out Common Ground, these wonderful folks that have been so welcoming to us here. And you can...

• 1:45:01Rich Roll?

  Common Ground Kauai, the website is CGKauai.net and learn a little bit more about what's going on on this beautiful organic farm on the north shore of Kauai. Yeah?

• 1:45:14Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:45:15Rich Roll?

  Alright, cool.

• 1:45:15Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:45:16Rich Roll?

  I think we did it.

• 1:45:16Speaker 01

  So, thanks for having us.

• 1:45:18Rich Roll?

  Thanks for listening, you guys. We really appreciate it. We wish you a very happy, prosperous...

• 1:45:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:25Rich Roll?

  ...goal-oriented, or not-so-goal-oriented 2013.

• 1:45:30Speaker 01

  Happy New Year, everyone.

• 1:45:32Rich Roll?

  And again, I've got some great guests coming up when I get back to LA, so please stay tuned for that. I'm going to be bringing you the best experts in plant-based nutrition, physical training, fitness, all sorts of stuff, so stick around. Alright?

• 1:45:49Speaker 01

  Peace.

• 1:45:50Rich Roll?

  Peace, plants.

• 1:46:34Speaker 01

  The.

• 1:48:44Speaker 01

  The.