Top Children's Savings | Urgent free cash bank switching | Best ever blags

Martin tells you how you can get banks to pay you to switch to their account. Plus the best way for parents and grandparents to save money for children. The Tell Us is about the best thing you’ve ever blagged. And Mastermind tackles the point in life an under 18 starts to pay tax on their earnings.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:11Martin Lewis?

  Hello, I'm Martin Lewis, and this is the cunningly-named The Martin Lewis Podcast. I do wonder what that's all going to be about. Now, usually, much of it comes from my BBC Radio 5 live show with Adrian Charles. But don't worry, there's also bonus money-saving tips just for you lucky, lucky podcast listeners. In today's pod, Christmas is coming, and many people like to give children or grandchildren money to save. So where's the best place to put it? Top children's savings accounts, junior ISAs, child trust funds, and we talk to a solicitor about when it's worth setting up a trust. Currently, five bank accounts pay you over £150 quid to switch to them, but by this time next week, my bet is there'll only be two of them left, as they're all pulling from the market.

• 1:56Martin Lewis?

  So if you want to grab the free cash, this is the moment. Car pay free cash 'em. I'll run you through all the best deals. Today's mastermind is a taxing question for Adrian. And the tellers. What's the best thing you've ever blagged? We've had people tell us about first-class flights, Oasis tickets, hotel stays and more. It's fascinating to see what you all get up to. Play the theme tune.

• 2:38Speaker 06

  Martin, how are you?

• 2:41Martin Lewis?

  Do you know what, I'm actually quite good. Have you ever had a small moment of disproportionate satisfaction? Because I had one about 15 minutes ago.

• 2:49Speaker 06

  Interesting.

• 2:50Martin Lewis?

  I came to BBC Broadcasting House. Now, anyone who has ever worked here will know that you have to come in about seven or eight minutes early, especially on a lunchtime period, because the lifts are horrendous. When you want a lift going up, all the lifts are going down. When you want a lift going down, all the lifts are going up. It is always a nightmare. Now, as someone who cuts everything to the last minute because my schedule is jam-packed, it drives me nuts that I have to spend so much time waiting to the lift. Today, I walked to the lift area, there was no one there. I leant forward to press the button. Before I had pressed the button, there was a ding, bing! The up sign, and I was coming up because we're on the third floor, the up sign lit up, the door lifts open, and I walked in. And I just meant, that means I got a little bit more time to prepare and a little bit more time to eat the food that I've brought with me.

• 3:33Martin Lewis?

  And I even got to talk with you pre this show starting about cash. And it made me happy.

• 3:39Speaker 06

  Yes, yeah, just when I first started at the BBC, it was about 1992, it was at BBC Television Centre.

• 3:45Martin Lewis?

  Oh, yeah, I worked there too.

• 3:46Speaker 06

  I was only on work experience, and there was this guy in uniform standing outside one of the lifts. Do you remember the old reception, which looked like sort of Leningrad Airport?

• 3:56Martin Lewis?

  Absolutely.

• 3:56Speaker 06

  Isn't it, the way it was...

• 3:57Martin Lewis?

  I actually started just after when they built the new reception, the stage six reception, that got posh. Because you're obviously older and been doing this longer than me.

• 4:03Speaker 06

  But there was a bloke in a uniform, standing by a lift, sort of guard, isn't it? And I said to somebody who was working with us, "What's he doing there?" And he said, "Oh, it's a commissioner, did they call him, holding the lift for the director general."

• 4:16Martin Lewis?

  Oh.

• 4:17Speaker 06

  So we should have such a thing for you.

• 4:18Martin Lewis?

  I want a lift holder. That is it. Tom, Tom is the big editor of Five Live. Tom, I'm not doing this again, and let's have a lift opener.

• 4:27Speaker 06

  And I'm not doing it again unless I have one too. So it's both of us or neither of us.

• 4:31Martin Lewis?

  But obviously, it's fine if Adrian doesn't get one, but I want to...

• 4:35Speaker 06

  I'll try to.

• 4:36Martin Lewis?

  No, I'm...

• 4:38Speaker 06

  No solidarity.

• 4:39Martin Lewis?

  Solidarity, no solidarity, we both need a lift opener.

• 4:43Speaker 06

  I know.

• 4:43Martin Lewis?

  Or a can opener. Well, I'll settle for a can opener.

• 4:48Speaker 06

  Where do we start then?

• 4:49Martin Lewis?

  Bank accounts.

• 4:50Speaker 06

  I mean, can I say the answer? What I want from a bank, from a current account, you're gonna get, in the end, you're gonna get pretty small interest. I just want somebody who answers the phone. I just, when there's something, you know, when there's something needs sorting out, you know, then at least a decent website or app, and optimally a phone where a human being who you can understand, who understands you, could answer the question.

• 5:15Martin Lewis?

  It's interesting that you say that because whether I include customer service ratings and how much I weight customer service ratings when I'm talking about any form of financial product, tends to be about how much you will generally need to interact with them. And I think on your savings account, not much, so I don't weight it very heavily. But on your current account, your day-to-day banking account, I think it is important, so I weight customer service ratings in. And in one of these five accounts that are currently paying you to switch, one of them, I'll start there because you asked, is First Direct, which currently pays you £175 to switch to it. In all cases, you need to be a newbie, you'll need to use their switching service, I'm not gonna dot I and cross T, you need to read the eligibility criteria yourself.

• 5:57Martin Lewis?

  It pays you £175 to switch, it has a 7% linked regular saver, you can put up to £300 a month in, many people get a £250 overdraft, it gives perfect exchange rates on its debit card, and crucially, it has come top or near top of every customer service poll I have ever done for the last decade, and its current rating, when we poll people on it, is 91% great. And that's often about its phone service. So, on your answer, what I would say to you is if your bank, it's not, is your bank bad? Most people don't rate their banks as bad, they just rate them as, hm. Now, if your bank is hm, then you could switch to, in your case, because you wanted service, First Direct, get paid £175 to do so, have pretty good financial terms, and move to a top-rated customer service bank.

• 6:42Martin Lewis?

  And that would be my answer. Now, I think First Direct is staying around, you know, because my whole reason for doing this right now is, people will understand when I say this, purely guesswork, reading the runes, but I read runes quite well. I think most of these accounts will not be here. In fact, some of them I can tell you won't be here. The NatWest Reward account, which is the top cash in total, that is closing next Wednesday for new applicants, the bonus is closing, not the account. So with that account, it gives you £180 for switching. It also then gives you five quid a month if you do various things like paying direct debits and logging into mobile banking, but it has a two pound a month fee. So it pays you five quid a month, it has a two pound a month fee, so it's a net three quid you're up. So over a year, that's 36 quid.

• 7:25Martin Lewis?

  So it's 180 quid for free when you join and 36 quid on top, which is a total 216 quid cash it's giving you. It's also got a linked regular savings account. With that one, you need to pay 1,250 quid a month to get it. The highest upfront cash, straight 200 quid upfront, is Club Lloyd's account. That is closing on the 10th of December, so it's closing in five days' time from the point of recording. In other words, the 200 quid, not the account, the 200 quid is closing. That also gives you a year's Disney Plus, or you can choose six free cinema tickets as well, or magazine subscription. You need to pay 2,000 pounds in a month, which is just a way of saying, put your salary in, and salary of around 28 and a half grand that would be. The other two that are available as well are Nationwide Flex Direct, 175 quid for

• 8:10Martin Lewis?

  free, no closing date on that one at the moment. It gives you 1% cash back on a debit card and also has a 6.5% linked regular saver. And finally, you have the Santander Edge account, which I think will end soon. The free cash will end soon, but I don't have that confirmed. That pays 150 quid, but it gives you 1% bills cash back, maximum 10 pounds a month. So if you pay your bills for it, you get cash back on your bills, and it gives you 1% cash back on grocery, fuel, train and bus spending. So that can be for somebody typically net, because it's got a two pound a month fee, you'd be making another 80 quid a year off that. So that is a very good account for joint bills accounts. If you want a joint bills account, you know, you've both got your own individual account, but you've got a joint bills account, switch it to Santander Edge at the moment, you can

• 8:53Martin Lewis?

  get 150 quid and you'll get cash back on the bills you pay through it.

• 8:56Speaker 06

  Liam sent a question. Some banks offer cash back to switch your bank account to them, as we've just been saying. I'm looking into getting a joint bank account with my wife. Are there any cash back offers to switch to a joint bank account from two single personal accounts? Well, I'd add to that and said, I've got a joint account. Can you switch a joint account?

• 9:18Martin Lewis?

  So in all of these cases, you need to be switching an account. The cash is for switching an account. So.

• 9:27Martin Lewis?

  Your joint bank account, you could switch your joint bank account to one of these accounts as a joint bank account. You would get the cash. You don't get double the cash. You know, if it's free 150 quid, it's 150 quid. It's not 300 quid because there's two of you. It's 150 quid between you and you can do that. Not a problem in most cases. I mean, there's always one or two, but in most cases, if you have two single accounts to get the cash, you would have to switch one of those accounts and make it and then make it a joint account. Right? Because so the other way you could do this, now clearly I'm talking about them going. Now, there are many people out there who've made well over a gram from switching bank accounts. And the way you do that is you have a mule account is what is what I call it.

• 10:10Martin Lewis?

  So what you do is let's say you and your partner both have normal accounts. You then go and set up some naff, no benefit from doing it current account that you fulfill the terms. That is your mule account. That is your account that you use to switch to get the bonuses. So you then switch that. You make sure you're meeting its minimum criteria or a couple of direct debits. The income's going in, but even if you don't want to use it, you'd basically have your income going in for it for a day and then you take the income out and put it into your main bank account the next day so that you'd hit the minimum paying criteria that they have. And then once you've got your cash bonus, then you'd switch again. So what Liam could do, if you're willing to wait, because I think there'll be offers coming back in sort of the middle of January, I'd guess. They're all going off now. They go off for Christmas. They'll come back in the middle of January. You could go and set up

• 10:52Martin Lewis?

  a mule account. Just go somewhere that doesn't tend to give bonuses, right? Set up a mule joint account now. So you've got a joint account if you want to both keep your current single accounts and then in January, then you switch it across and you get the switching bonus.

• 11:06Speaker 06

  Couldn't they both switch their single accounts singly?

• 11:11Martin Lewis?

  Yes.

• 11:12Speaker 06

  To and get so they would get double then?

• 11:15Martin Lewis?

  Which is how some people are making some serious money because they're two doing it.

• 11:17Speaker 06

  And then, okay, but having done that, can you then? You could then surely make one of those accounts joint.

• 11:24Martin Lewis?

  Yeah, but you could just make it joint as you move in. Or, but it's what I was, what I felt from the question is they wanted a joint account, as many do. Many people, the way they operate the banking now, you each have your individual account and then you have a joint account for bills. So I was saying Santander Reg is very good for that one because it gives you the cash back on bills. So if you're doing that and you want the switching bonus from doing it, you would have to set up a joint account elsewhere first. And then once that's set up, you'd have to move it across.

• 11:50Speaker 06

  But why not switch the two single accounts and then set up a joint account with the banking switch?

• 11:54Martin Lewis?

  You could do, you could do, set up your two single accounts, both get cash for those and then get a joint account. Switch it to a place that neither of you have had a switching bonus from and you would get three lots of bonuses. Exactly. And as we're talking, these bonuses are between 150 quid and 200 quid. Well, then you're talking between 450 quid and 600 quid, which is why, that's why I talk about it. Yeah. Because it's real money.

• 12:14Speaker 06

  Kim says, you talk about the switching service that moves all payments, direct debit and standing order. Are payments inward, so salary, et cetera, are they automatically switched?

• 12:25Martin Lewis?

  So when you, to get the switching payment here, you must use the bank's seven working day switch service. So let's call it 10 days in reality is what it takes at the full length. When that happens, it will move your direct debits and standing orders for you. It will close your old account. You always have to pass a not too harsh credit check and it will auto forward payments made to the old account to your new account. Yes, that is part of what happens. So you won't lose any of those payments. You should of course, over time, make sure you transfer them over and give your employer your new payment details. But yeah, they will be auto forwarded. The only thing that is missed on the switching services, going to get a bit more technical now, is what's called a recurring payment.

• 13:09Martin Lewis?

  Now, a recurring payment feels like a direct debit or a standing order, but it is when you give the longer number on your debit or credit card. So if you've got your debit card and you give your bank account number and sort code.

• 13:20Speaker 06

  It switches.

• 13:20Martin Lewis?

  That's, well, that's, that's a direct debit generally.

• 13:23Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 13:23Martin Lewis?

  If you're making a payment from your bank account that you opt for, that's a standing order. But if you give the long card number, that is a recurring payment, the rules are different, they are tough to spot. What you effectively do when you set up many subscriptions, you know, many subscription services, including, I should say, adult entertainment services, which catches people out, because these are quite difficult to cancel, and then people get embarrassed to call their bank about them. So they are something worth, I've had a lot of complaints over that over the years. So if you give your long number, then you're effectively giving the firm you're paying permission to regularly take a payment from you. So you can take a

• 14:00Speaker 06

  From a credit or debit?

• 14:01Martin Lewis?

  From a credit or debit card, as opposed to from your bank account, even though from a debit card is sort of the same thing.

• 14:05Speaker 06

  And those things are a nuisance.

• 14:06Martin Lewis?

  They are.

• 14:06Speaker 06

  You change credit card, or you have one stolen, or you lose it or something, so you then need a new number. And then the recurring payments, they're

• 14:17Martin Lewis?

  They are, and you have far less protection on them. And when you switch bank account, if you have a recurring payment set up to your debit card, that is not moved across, so you would need to move that across manually. That's the one thing that doesn't happen.

• 14:29Speaker 06

  Do you know, one of our engineers, I'm told, switched bank accounts all the time, and paid for him and his wife to go to Paris with it this year from the bonuses.

• 14:38Martin Lewis?

  Honestly, the people using the money, we have a whole community of people who use these sort of money. And what they do is they're always looking for the one they haven't had yet, because the problem is, you only get this as a newbie, and banks are getting savvier to the growing community of people. So it used to be, you could be a newbie if you hadn't been a member in two years. Now they're changing the terms to make it difficult to get multiple bonuses from the same bank. But there are enough banks out there you might be able to get bonuses from.

• 15:04Speaker 06

  As the regular listeners will know, since I started doing these flipping masterminds, I cleaned up on the first two, and then I've been wrong.

• 15:13Martin Lewis?

  Seven successive times.

• 15:14Speaker 06

  Seven successive times. Which, you know, you'd think it's like, you know, even a broken clock is right twice a day. On that basis, you'd think

• 15:22Martin Lewis?

  And we should always remind people, Adrian, for your self-esteem purposes, that this is a three option, multiple choice question. Therefore, statistically, you would expect to have got, you know, what, three or four right at this point, but you've got two of seven. Now you'd expect to get three of nine right. We played nine, you'd expect to get three right, you've only got two right. So random chance would generally have beaten you.

• 15:44Speaker 06

  Yeah, okay.

• 15:45Martin Lewis?

  Just to really knock that in. Shall we play the theme tune?

• 15:47Speaker 06

  Go on.

• 15:55Martin Lewis?

  So, now just before, I always like to do the setup, before we do the setup, I just want to play you something from this week's The Chase.

• 16:04Speaker 07

  Money Mastermind is a segment on which financial journalist podcast, Path Martin Lewis.

• 16:10Martin Lewis?

  So I just thought it was really interesting that tradition, they even got it, they knew Money Mastermind so well, that they followed your trend and they got it wrong.

• 16:18Speaker 06

  Quite right. There should be extra points.

• 16:21Martin Lewis?

  We should, we made The Chase, everybody, we made The Chase now.

• 16:23Speaker 06

  I'm so hopeless on The Chase, if I'd have been the contestant there, I would have got it wrong. Even though I'm sort of part of it.

• 16:30Martin Lewis?

  You know, I think we know from Money Mastermind, your quizz ability. Now, so here is, I don't have a good setup this week, I'm afraid. I tried to come up with some joke about rich kids, but sadly, none of them work.

• 16:40Speaker 06

  Right.

• 16:42Martin Lewis?

  That's all I had, sorry, it was bad.

• 16:44Speaker 06

  Keeping cheerful.

• 16:45Martin Lewis?

  It does lead me into where I'm going there. At what point in their life does an under 18 start to pay tax on their earnings? Earnings. A, only if they move out of their parents' house. B, not until they turn 14. Or C, from any age.

• 17:07Martin Lewis?

  So at what point does an under 18 start to pay tax, have to pay tax on their earnings? Only if they move out of their parents' house? Or parental guardian, I should say. Parental guardian's house, or person with parental responsibility, if we're doing the technical term. B, not until they turn 14. Or C, from any age.

• 17:24Speaker 06

  Well, I think it's any age, because if a 13-year-old entrepreneur, unlikely though that is, sets up some, I don't know, some AI suite company or something, and you know, starts making a hundred grand a year, I can't imagine they're going to get that tax-free. So, even if they are only 13, so I'll say any age.

• 17:47Martin Lewis?

  Final answer.

• 17:49Speaker 06

  I know when you say that, that I've got it wrong, but anyway, I'm so humiliated. My esteem is rock bottom, it can't go any lower, my self-esteem, so.

• 17:58Martin Lewis?

  Play the hallelujah.

• 17:59Speaker 06

  Oh, my word, no.

• 18:04Martin Lewis?

  We even started this by small moments of disproportionate satisfaction. Is this one?

• 18:08Speaker 06

  Oh, that's beautiful. Open the hypothetical thermidore. Take my cigar out. Snip the end of it, I shall light it.

• 18:17Martin Lewis?

  Well done.

• 18:18Speaker 06

  And puff smoke rings above us.

• 18:20Martin Lewis?

  And may I just give you proper plaudits that not only did you get the answer right, you got it right for the right reason.

• 18:27Speaker 06

  Oh, beautiful. I showed my workings.

• 18:29Martin Lewis?

  You showed your workings and your workings were correct. Adrian is absolutely correct. Many people assume that children do not pay tax. Incorrect. Children pay tax just like adults. And just like adults, they can earn £12,570 a year before they pay any income tax. The main difference is, most children don't earn £12,570 a year, so in practice, they don't pay any tax. But if you're starring in a Harry Potter film and earning oodles of money, you would be taxed just like an adult. In fact, children's taxation, with one exception which I will be coming to talking on in savings in a moment, works exactly the same as adult. The only thing that doesn't work the same as an adult is a child. I didn't plan that phrasing, I was quite pleased with it though.

• 19:13Speaker 06

  Very, yeah.

• 19:14Martin Lewis?

  In the podcast, can you just play that again, so I can get a repeat of it, because it was that good? Children's taxation, with one exception which I will be coming to talking on in savings in a moment, works exactly the same as adult. The only thing that doesn't work the same as an adult is a child.

• 19:30Martin Lewis?

  Right, well done Adrian, mate. Well done.

• 19:35Martin Lewis?

  Now, finally, we are into December, which means I will allow podcast producer Simon to play a little bit of Christmas music in the background. Jingle bells, you went for jingle bells. Anyway, one of the things that happens in the run-up to Christmas is as well as giving gifts, many people like to give their children or their grandchildren money. And this needs to go in a savings account, which is why I'm always swamped with questions on children's savings. What are the best accounts? What about regular savers, junior ISAs, child trust funds? Should you be setting up a trust? So, that's the main topic for today. Adrian has all the questions, and I'm going to try and provide at least some of the answers.

• 20:15Speaker 06

  Rory's question is as follows, he said, I've got a four-year-old and a baby, one who opened a bank account for each of them. What's the best easy access account I can get in their names but has decent savings rates?

• 20:26Martin Lewis?

  I'm going to do easy access, I'm going to do straight easy access first, but actually regular savers are very good for kids. So the Nationwide Flex One account, how old were his children?

• 20:36Speaker 06

  Four and baby.

• 20:37Martin Lewis?

  Okay, they're too young for that. The Yorkshire Building Society One Day Account is for children of any age, up to age 21, zero to 21, pays 4.45% variable, so it's easy access. You can open it by branch or post. If under eight, the account must be opened in trust. And although the interest rate is reducing to 4.25%, so it's 4.45% opening branch or post. It's a Yorkshire Building Society One Day Account. That is for kids of that age. If the children were older, you've got HSBC My Savings, which is for age seven to 17, that pays 5%. These are all easy access variable on between £10,000 and £3,000. So if you've got that type of amount, that's the winner.

• 21:19Martin Lewis?

  And if they're age 11 to 17, Nationwide Flex One, which pays 5% variable on up to £5,000. So for under sevens, it's Yorkshire Building Society. For those seven to 17 on up to £3,000, it's HSBC. And if you've got three to £5,000 and they're 11 to 17, it's Nationwide. I will just point out, while we're doing through this, two other accounts worth mentioning for anybody thinking about this, they're not easy access variable though. The Halifax Children's Regular Saver allows you to put up to £100 a month in it. You can't withdraw, it's a fixed rate at 5.5% for a year. So basically, if you're going to put money aside each month for your kid,

• 22:03Martin Lewis?

  you can put up to £100 in there at 5.5%. So that is a, that's a pretty decent rate and that's the best paying children's savings account on the market. And you've got Safron Building Society, it's very similar, that pays 5.25% variable on up to £100. That one's post or branch, Halifax is online. So you could be putting £100 in both of those and getting 5.5% in one and 5.25% in another. So those are the accounts and I'll probably be referring back to them when you get some other questions later, I suspect, knowing the way it works.

• 22:30Speaker 06

  Gary wants to know if it's best to put savings into a child ISA or use my own allowance for adult ISA with better rates.

• 22:37Martin Lewis?

  The first thing to say is you would be using up your adult cash ISA allowance, where your child has their own cash adult, has their own ISA allowance.

• 22:47Speaker 06

  They might as well use both.

• 22:48Martin Lewis?

  So you may as well use both unless you're not going to fill yours. If you put the money in for the child, what's very important to understand about junior ISAs and child trust funds, that money is not accessible until the child is 18. And on their 18th birthday, it is their money, not your money. So if they decide they want to go and follow Harry Styles around the world and spend all the money you've saved on them to follow Harry Styles around the world, I don't know how Harry Styles will be in 18 years' time, but you get the point. Rather than the university that you'd hoped that you were using it to save for, that is absolutely their choice. If it's in your account, it's your money. Obviously, it's a cash ISA, you're using up your limit, and therefore you have the choice and you can take it out of a cash ISA whenever you want.

• 23:31Martin Lewis?

  So you have that flexibility, but you're using up your tax-free allowance on this type of money. So it really depends what you prefer. Whose money do you want it to be? When do you want them to have access to it?

• 23:44Speaker 06

  For your tell us then, what was your idea behind this this week, Martin?

• 23:49Martin Lewis?

  Well, I was just thinking of, you know, I was doing a bit of A-team thinking, as you do, and thinking, you know, you've got Hannibal, you've got Mad Murdock, but Face. Face was the blagger of the A-team, for those now in their 50s like me who remember it, and all those 20-year-olds going out there going, "The A what?"

• 24:06Martin Lewis?

  That's right. This is about blagging, that what is the best thing you've ever legally blagged? Restaurant meal, snooker table, free flight, when charm and chutzpah without line got you an amazing deal freebie? So we wanted you to tell us what, when, where and how. Now, normally I have Facebook and you have Twitter, but there was a really good one on Twitter, so I've stolen it.

• 24:22Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 24:23Martin Lewis?

  And I'm going to do that one first, but then the rest of mine are Facebook. This was Simon from Twitter, I love this. I'm not sure it technically counts as a blag, you can say what you think. "Was on a long-haul flight to Japan in economy, booked in economy. This was when each flight had a check-in. First bus, trip, cattle for 11 hours. The queue moved slowly and we were called over to the late check-in desk. The guy in front had a huge..." Rant. I'm a frequent flyer. I've got no time for duty free. This is dreadful service. It was totally unnecessary. After he had gone, I said to the lady behind the counter, I'll apologize for my fellow passenger. He's clearly having a bad day. She said, do you know him? I said, no, it was just unnecessary. So I thought I would apologize for him. The lady said, thanks very much.

• 25:07Martin Lewis?

  Would you like an upgrade to business?

• 25:09Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 25:09Martin Lewis?

  And he said, yes, please. So we got a business class flight, long haul to Japan. Because he was simply polite and just said, that shouldn't have happened to you. Is that a blag though? Because he wasn't at, does.

• 25:20Speaker 06

  Well, we don't know his motives between him and his god.

• 25:23Martin Lewis?

  I, I think reading that, reading that he wasn't doing it to get the upgrade.

• 25:28Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 25:29Martin Lewis?

  So does.

• 25:30Speaker 06

  It's like, was the handball intentional? That made.

• 25:32Martin Lewis?

  Well, does it, is intent within the blag? Is intent an implicit part of blagging or not? That's the question.

• 25:37Speaker 06

  Chambers Dictionary, blag.

• 25:38Martin Lewis?

  Yeah.

• 25:39Speaker 06

  Is one to rob or steal.

• 25:41Martin Lewis?

  Well, that's not the context.

• 25:42Speaker 06

  Two, to scrounge or weedle. So I suppose.

• 25:46Martin Lewis?

  He did weedle.

• 25:47Speaker 06

  He, he, yes.

• 25:48Martin Lewis?

  He weedle, I don't like scrounge, but weedle, I don't mind too much.

• 25:50Speaker 06

  He weedle. I mean, don't you find in your position, if you're recognizable face, that you either, you tend to get either charged double or given something for free?

• 25:58Martin Lewis?

  Absolutely. Not, not charged double, but given for free.

• 26:01Speaker 06

  I've definitely been.

• 26:03Martin Lewis?

  I, I have, the one that happens to me a lot, and it is very, very kind and generous, is if I will get into a taxi, if I get into a black cab. And the taxi driver will, will be, will tell me how, so it's often during the pandemic, I got, I got the, the money for businesses, thanks to you, and it was an absolute lifeline. And I get out of the end, they say, I'm not taking your money. Right? And, and it's very kind. It doesn't happen all the time, but it's, it's happened, you know, probably a dozen times or so. And so I always feel quite guilty about that. So what I, my answer is, because I'm in a position, you know, clearly those of us who get freebies more, when you're in a position that you can afford to pay more. So my answer always is, thank you so much. I'm going to donate that amount to charity. And I always do donate that amount to charity because I feel that way, everybody's a winner.

• 26:46Martin Lewis?

  He, he, he or she gets to, gets to do, make the gesture they want to do to say thank you. And I also don't, don't have to feel guilty about taking something and not paying for something in that case. I mean, some people say in my job, you should just take it. You're the money saving expert, but I think it's a slightly different position.

• 27:00Speaker 06

  Molly has one, which I think points to an important factor. It said, I had enough BA first air miles, London to Sydney and a companion ticket but was impossible to book. Charmed my way with the reservation team and received return first class for two to London, to Sydney free. Well, that's great, but that necessitated getting hold of a human being, which, you know, I've tried and failed with BA on a number of occasions, I must say, but generally it's harder to get hold of a human being. You can't blag with a computer or a chatbot, can you?

• 27:37Martin Lewis?

  No, but you can blag on web chat, worth noting, because that's a human being.

• 27:41Speaker 06

  Okay, but most web chats seem to be chatbots to me now.

• 27:45Martin Lewis?

  Again, but if it's a human being, and I know many people who've haggled rather than blagged on web chat and got discount codes on web chat, just the same way you would in person. But you're right, you do have to do that. And blagging is generally, because if it doesn't involve a human being, then you're probably lying or wheedling and doing something that is of the law. But this way, it is somebody giving you that permission. And in that case, they had the points, but they weren't usable, but they managed to get something that they shouldn't have got. So I do count that as a blag. I'm going to move on to Emma. Bought my daughter a beautiful dress in the monsoon sale in 2015. She was five. Got phone home and found the enormous security tag still on it. Rang the store and got a really awful sales assistant who said, and I quote, what do you want me to do about it?

• 28:27Martin Lewis?

  You can imagine my reply. Anyhow, a round trip back to the store, another half hour out my day, and I returned home with the dress minus the security tag and another full-priced dress by way of an apology. My daughter was very happy.

• 28:40Speaker 06

  Kate, a book to Christmas party night.

• 28:42Martin Lewis?

  I just read my next one, I'm laughing.

• 28:44Speaker 06

  Herself and four friends. A week before got a call saying it had been cancelled, but often upgrade to their sister hotel for the same price, £20 each, but it was far too far to get a taxi home. Got B and B thrown in, so I got a four-course meal, cabaret, and B and B for £20. So there's a lesson there, isn't there? When someone's on the back foot a bit because they're letting you down in some way, then don't take the first offer they give you.

• 29:10Martin Lewis?

  Absolutely, ask. I mean, I always talk about that in haggling. As soon as someone has agreed to haggle, they've opened the door to a price discount. You know, even if it's a very small haggle, that's the door open. Susan, when going to a restaurant, they said it was fully booked, but my brother was with us and he looks like Gary Barlow. I said, do you know who this is?

• 29:31Speaker 06

  Oh god.

• 29:32Martin Lewis?

  And we got a table. Fob my brother offers Gary many a time. So I think that the key question to whether that is wrong or not is whether you said it was Gary Barlow. So if you said, do you know who this is? Well, it's your brother, isn't it?

• 29:46Speaker 06

  Oh, it's a thin moral line.

• 29:47Martin Lewis?

  It is, it is a, it is a thin moral line. Um, yeah. I mean, I'm just wondering now if I could, I mean, I might try booking at a go a restaurant. Hello, this is Adrian Charles, can I have a booking please? Do you think it's gonna work?

• 29:57Speaker 06

  No.

• 29:58Martin Lewis?

  No, okay.

• 29:58Speaker 06

  Emphatically, yeah, emphatically.

• 30:01Martin Lewis?

  But I feel it, I mean, it's incumbent on me to do my impression of you at least once a week in, in the show to keep going forward. What have you got next? And we'll probably get back to kids savings.

• 30:08Speaker 06

  Yeah, opposite, I haggled a price up. This is more like me, bought a car, tried to haggle, dealer was having none of it. He revised the price up by a quid as a laugh, I took the deal for the sheer comedic value.

• 30:19Martin Lewis?

  Oh, well, I'm gonna finish on a better one.

• 30:20Speaker 06

  Go on.

• 30:21Martin Lewis?

  On a, a few years ago, Amazon put a nice 70 pounds Santoko kitchen knife in my Amazon locker. Instead of the item I'd ordered, which cost just a few pounds. I told Amazon that it would be inconvenient to me to have to return it, so I will consider it a gift from them. They agreed I could keep it and also sent me my original order. The knife is really good and a pleasure to use. That's a blag.

• 30:43Speaker 06

  That's a blag.

• 30:44Martin Lewis?

  That is a proper blag.

• 30:45Speaker 06

  That's good.

• 30:46Martin Lewis?

  Absolutely good.

• 30:50Martin Lewis?

  Now let's get back to children's savings.

• 30:53Speaker 06

  I need to confess something to you, I was genuinely ashamed. This came to me on the same day we were doing, when have your kids helped you financially?

• 31:00Martin Lewis?

  Yeah.

• 31:01Speaker 06

  With some spotting something was too much or whatever. And um, my daughter came to me with, she's just got a temp job and so asked me about tax codes and, and pay slips. And I've just, I've, I just get triggered by anything to do with tax for reasons we won't go into, but the, the just, I've, I just realised, even braving a look at her, at her pay, I just didn't understand any of it. I couldn't be of any help to her.

• 31:31Martin Lewis?

  Well, it's interesting because we're talking about children's savings and one of the things I'd always recommend when you're doing children's savings, I mean, not if they're two, but even if they're seven or eight, is you talk to them about interest and interest is the price of money and you earn more interest the higher the number. So you do it with them and you give them some financial education. Now, actually, tax codes is in my financial education textbook that people can download for free via the Young Money website. It's a charity that I funded to do it, so it's the Young Money website that you go to. Right, can you tell me the tax code? I don't know if you don't want to give that out on air, I'm not sure.

• 32:01Speaker 06

  It's not particularly... It's a temp job.

• 32:03Martin Lewis?

  Oh, well, that's always going to be an issue.

• 32:05Speaker 06

  Well, this is what I did in this. The one tax code says BR.

• 32:10Martin Lewis?

  Yep, that's basic rate. That means pay tax at the 20% rate, often when someone's just started a new job.

• 32:16Speaker 06

  And the next one says 966T.

• 32:18Martin Lewis?

  Right, so let's do the number and everybody, it's really important that you know this. If you get a tax code, it is your legal responsibility to make sure it is correct. It is not your employer's and it is not the tax office. So if it's wrong and you're underpaying, they're going to want money back from you. If you're overpaying tax, you want money back from them.

• 32:38Speaker 06

  But how do you know if it's wrong?

• 32:39Martin Lewis?

  It's a problem because it's really complicated. There are tax code calculators online, which will give you an indication of what your tax code is and whether it's likely right, but it is a really, and also on the back of the tax code, it often explains. So let's just do the number first, 966, you said.

• 32:54Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 32:55Martin Lewis?

  So what that says is add a zero on the end and what number do you get?

• 32:59Speaker 06

  9660.

• 33:01Martin Lewis?

  That is your tax-free personal allowance, the amount you can earn in a tax year before you pay tax on it. That sounds too low for somebody who's just starting a job and basically for me, it should be, the standard one would is 1257L, that's your standard tax code, which means you can earn the standard 12,570 personal allowance. The T, I went on to a tax code calculator as we're doing that, the T indicates your tax situation is complex or changes frequently, therefore will need to be reviewed by HMRC every tax year. I think that your daughter's been probably put on a temporary tax code that is too high because they don't have a other situation and she's new in a job and it will need to be sorted out at some point.

• 33:40Speaker 06

  Okay, so what do you do?

• 33:41Martin Lewis?

  Go talk to the payroll, go talk to the payroll office and that's why she's on that tax code. I mean, but it's the fact it's a temp job is what makes it all difficult. So it may just have to be reconciled at the end of the year because she's not going to be with them for long.

• 33:51Speaker 06

  If you do, so, but so if you do nothing, does it rectify itself? Do you get a rebate then or do you get a bill?

• 33:59Martin Lewis?

  You should do, you will definitely get a bill and you should get a rebate, but it can take years, which is why first, I mean, and there are millions of people, millions of people a year pay the wrong tax. Millions, not an exaggeration because tax codes are wrong. So every year when you get your tax code, you should go and check your tax code. You should go onto a tax code calculator, see what it means and see if it's intuitively right. And if it's not, you need to get in touch with the tax office to correct it both ways. If you think you've overpaid, you want the money back. If you think you're underpaying, they will come for you and that will mean a big bill. Shall we do savings? We've got lots of savings questions.

• 34:32Speaker 06

  Yes, we've got Suzanne in Glasgow's on the line. Suzanne, what have you got for us?

• 34:36Speaker 02

  I have three children, eight-year-old twins and a newborn. At the moment, I'm very fortunate to be able to save some of the child benefit into the savings app, Zupa, at 4.7%. That is only because it has to give three months' notice for withdrawing. However, I'm wondering if the savings accounts with the higher interest are best or with a junior ISA.

• 34:58Martin Lewis?

  Okay, so whose money is, whose name is, are the savings in, yours or the children's?

• 35:05Speaker 02

  The children's.

• 35:06Martin Lewis?

  Right, so you've got, I mean, you've got a pretty decent interest rate. Okay, so the first thing, and I go back to where we were earlier, unless your kids, they don't happen to be child stars, do they?

• 35:17Speaker 02

  No.

• 35:17Martin Lewis?

  I'm, I'm sure they could be, I'm sure they have the talent, but they're not.

• 35:21Speaker 06

  Yet, you should have said.

• 35:22Martin Lewis?

  Right, so they're not going to be earning any money. The question is, if you forgive me asking, do you pay tax on your savings? Do you have enough savings to pay tax on it?

• 35:30Speaker 02

  No.

• 35:31Martin Lewis?

  Well, I mean, there's always a potential that you will at some point, so we have to remember that. In that case, it is unlikely that it makes much difference putting the money in a junior ISA. The real question about a junior ISA for you therefore is, do you want at some point your children to be able to have access to that money before they're 18? Or do you want it to be locked away until they're 18? Which do you prefer?

• 35:52Speaker 06

  They're 18.

• 35:53Martin Lewis?

  So if you don't want them to be able to touch it till they're 18, that's what a junior ISA does. People always ask me, I want to give them money, but I don't want them to be able to touch it. I mean, a junior ISA, that's, it does exactly that. Once you put it away, you cannot touch that money. It is illiquid, it is not accessible, you cannot get it out of there. So putting it in a junior ISA would do that. The account that you said you had it in, I didn't quite hear it, sorry, the line went at that point. What was it?

• 36:15Speaker 06

  It's the banking app Zipper.

• 36:18Martin Lewis?

  Right. Oh, I'm not that familiar with Zipper. I have to be honest, the only thing I would check, it's Financial Services Compensation Scheme Protection. Assuming that's fine, then having it in there isn't a problem. And I'm not sure you need a junior ISA, but you might want to move it to a junior ISA in order that you lock it away. 4.75% is higher than what's the top junior ISA is paying at the moment. Family Building Society at 4.6% if you've got over £3,000. It's Stafford Building Society if you've got less than £3,000 at 4.5%. So the rate difference is not much. The rate difference isn't much, in your case, the tax difference is irrelevant. So it's really a question whether you want accounts that they can access or an account where you're locking the money away.

• 37:01Speaker 06

  Perfect, thank you.

• 37:02Martin Lewis?

  My pleasure.

• 37:03Speaker 06

  Thank you, thanks very much for getting in touch. Colin, I want to set up an account for a grandchild where I can put some money into investments for them when they reach 18. I think this means setting up a trust. The info on trusts is complex, seems to require a solicitor. What are the simplest options available?

• 37:21Martin Lewis?

  It is complex and it does require a solicitor to answer that question because it's a legal question, not my type of question. But I believe that we have a solicitor on the line because I was expecting a question like that. So I put one on. You have the details on your console.

• 37:36Speaker 06

  Laura Selby from Harding, Harding Evans Solicitors. Laura, thanks for coming on. You can start your charge clock running now, Martin will be paying. So what's the specific?

• 37:49Martin Lewis?

  Just to say, that was a joke, there is no legal contract. Carry on.

• 37:53Speaker 06

  Go on.

• 37:54Martin Lewis?

  So it's the question, it's the question that you've just read out.

• 37:57Speaker 06

  Yes, so what does it take to set up a trust? Seems complex, the advice. A, do you need a solicitor? B, I thought I asked, what will it cost you to set up?

• 38:06Martin Lewis?

  So let's go through what people should have trusts and when they shouldn't. What are they good for, what are they not good for?

• 38:12Speaker 07

  Are good when you think that the beneficiary isn't really able to deal with the money themselves. If they had it in their name, it wouldn't be the right thing. They might sort of stash the cash rather than looking after it sensibly. So a trustee can look after that money or property on their behalf.

• 38:30Speaker 06

  Okay, so you might have a crackpot toddler running around wrecking the place. You want to put some put some money away for them and you can't quite bring yourself to to think, well, they, you know, they we don't want to have this, I don't know, suddenly have.

• 38:44Martin Lewis?

  And we're certainly talking here investments more than savings. I don't really cover the investment side of it. So you're looking to put money away in investments. How much is it going to cost you to set up a trust? Who do you do it with? Can you do it yourself? Do you need a solicitor?

• 38:54Speaker 07

  I would recommend doing a solicitor because there are legal implications. So I think it's best to make an informed decision about it. Because you need to understand what the terms of the trust are, what the powers of the trustees are. And when we're talking about investments, we're usually talking about large sums of money as well. So I would recommend, and not just a solicitor, but also have your financial advisor, maybe your client involved. So that they can talk to you as well about the financial implications and the tax implications of the trust.

• 39:24Martin Lewis?

  You you've mentioned the key point here. Ultimately, if you're looking to put away two or three thousand pounds in an investment, it's not going to be worth doing a trust because it's just not enough money, is it? So what should people in that position be looking at?

• 39:38Speaker 07

  I I think if it's just small amounts of money, then perhaps what you were talking about earlier with self savings and things like that, really when it's larger amounts of money because.

• 39:45Martin Lewis?

  Give it, what type of larger are we talking about? At what point does a trust become worth doing? And at what point is it not worth doing? Just a rough guidance.

• 39:53Speaker 07

  To maintain, run a trust, you want, I would say, about a hundred thousand of of money going into that. I think it's best to talk to the financial advisor as well to say, what can you afford to put into that trust? Where where is that money going to come from? And then ongoing, what are. Taxation implications for running that trust and is it worth it because also trusts have different tax rates and trustees pay different tax rates as well. So there can be quite a lot of administration involved which can give costs and those costs can like the trust fund.

• 40:26Martin Lewis?

  So we go back to the original question in a way. And I suppose, let me come in. There are junior ISAs can also be for investment. So if you're not going to be having these sort of large sums over a hundred thousand pounds that you're putting away for your child or grandchild and therefore doing it in a trust, you could open a junior ISA for them, which is an investment type ISA where the money is growing based on the underlying investment and that, you know, you've got a large wide range of choice of a junior ISA. If you go for the platforms, your Hargreaves Lansdowns, your AJ Bells and others like that, you can choose from a huge raft. And then the child can't access the money till they're 18. When they're 18, it's their business. So that might give you the protection that

• 41:08Martin Lewis?

  you need on smaller amounts of money from the child being able to withdraw it. And smaller, we're talking hundred thousand, it's still quite large, smaller, but that might be an easier way. So what we're getting from you, I think, is that people looking at trusts, we're talking big bucks. I mean, it's for big bucks. Otherwise, I mean, a hundred thousand is big bucks.

• 41:26Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah, it is. I mean, I wouldn't like to say that that is just set in stone. And I think, you know, everybody should seek their own advice on that. But it's basically because there is administration involved in running the trust.

• 41:40Martin Lewis?

  And cost.

• 41:41Speaker 07

  And cost. Then the cost of running it has to be warranted by the amount that is in there. But with a junior ISA, the things to consider are when somebody turns 18, are they going to be sensible? Are they going to do what you referred to earlier about Harry Styles going around the world following them? So you have to weigh everything up. So you have to weigh up the cost, the amount that you're looking at transferring, and what you think maybe the grandchild, you know, if they're very young, a toddler, you don't maybe know whether they're going to be sensible. You don't know whether they're going to be influenced by others when they turn 18. So the risk is if you

• 42:20Martin Lewis?

  If you don't do a, what we call maybe a discretionary trust, that at eighteen they can just do what they like with it. Define a discretionary trust for us. A discretionary trust is where the trustees have discretion as to how and when they advance the money to the beneficiaries. So you would have potential beneficiaries who have to be considered by the trustees, but they don't have the right, they can't insist on that money. So they can't insist on having it, they just have the right to be considered. And then the trustees can decide when it's appropriate to transfer money for their benefit to them. So a discretionary trust can be quite good in those circumstances, but there are sort

• 43:03Martin Lewis?

  of tax implications in relation to those, as I said too, about the different tax rates on income, the inheritance tax that applies to the trust as well, and the amount that's in there. There are other tactics, and I'm trying to look at other tactics for people who will be put up by the scale of junior ISA we've talked about, investing in your own name and keeping the money yourself, but mentally ring fencing that for your child. The risk of that is inheritance tax that comes later and moving across, yeah.

• 43:32Speaker 06

  I'm still confused about what the central purpose is of a trust. Maybe I've been constrained, but is it about control, so whether the, or is it about tax planning, or whatever you want to call it?

• 43:44Martin Lewis?

  I think if I try and sum it up for you, Adrian, you know, we're talking people who've got large amounts of money that want to give it away now, so it won't form part of, they won't be giving it as part of their estate for inheritance tax. That's one reason, but they don't want to give the child the control of it so the child can access it and use it for other reasons they don't do, therefore they want to keep control of it, you could do it in a discretionary trust.

• 44:03Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 44:04Martin Lewis?

  That's the type of summary of the things we're looking at. Do we go, thank you so much.

• 44:07Speaker 06

  Thank you Laura. Laura Shelby from Harding Evans.

• 44:09Martin Lewis?

  Let's go back to savings for the last bit, if you've got anything else.

• 44:12Speaker 06

  Lisa has a question. My son is fortunate enough to start up the government trust fund when he was born in 2009. I've heard that other accounts would be more worthwhile than continuing with this. Is it worth it, or can you move this to another savings account that would offer better returns? And if so, which one, please?

• 44:30Martin Lewis?

  Trust fund is the predecessor of the junior ISA. It works the same way. You can put up to 9,000 a year in it tax free and it's never taxed even on money given by the parent. You can transfer a child trust fund, but if you have a savings child trust fund, then it's far better to transfer it into a junior ISA. It's the same thing, just under a different name because the top junior ISA rates are better than the top child trust fund rates. So I mentioned before, the Family Building Society, Stafford Building Society, Coventry Building Society, Tesco and NSNI all have good junior ISAs. So what you would do is you'd go and apply to open a junior ISA at a new place. On the form, it would ask if you're transferring across. You would give it your child trust fund transfer details and you would move it across.

• 45:12Martin Lewis?

  If you have an investment child trust fund, then it's a much more difficult decision because actually trying to work out which is the best form of thing, whether it's investment or whether it's, which is the best investment is much more difficult to know whether the junior ISA will be better than the child trust fund. Remember too, any child born between the 1st of September 2002 and the 2nd of January 2011 got a child trust fund. The government added money in. If you don't know where it is and 670,000 don't, go on to gov.uk and track down your child trust fund. There might be a couple of grand in there that you've forgotten about.

• 45:45Martin Lewis?

  Now, we've got a couple more of your children's savings questions left. So let's just make sure we clear them up before we do anything else. And joining me back, delighted to have you back is PPS podcast producer, Simon. Simon, what have you got for me?

• 45:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, delighted to be back. We've got this one from Charlotte. My daughter is 14 and has a child trust fund money from the government set up. She's never done anything with it and it's still in the account they put it in. Gets a statement every now and again. She's wondering what happens when the daughter turns 18 and how do they get hold of the money?

• 46:11Martin Lewis?

  Well, what happens when your daughter turns 18 is if it's in a cash child trust fund, it will be converted to an adult cash ISA. If it's in a stocks and shares child trust fund, it'll be converted into an adult stocks and shares ISA. Now, as I mentioned already in the programme, if you have a child trust fund, you can get better rates on savings by moving it to a junior ISA. And that doesn't change anything other than the interest you'll be getting because they're effectively the same thing. What I would always say though is when your child trust fund or your junior ISA Is a matures, you should be making an active decision of what you do with it. So while it will automatically transfer to your provider's top cash ISA, you want to make sure it's going to the top cash ISA or the top savings account if tax isn't an issue for you.

• 46:55Martin Lewis?

  So at the point of maturity, you want to look at where you're going to get the best rate and move the money to where it pays best. The second thing that you could look at is moving up to £4,000 of it into a lifetime ISA. Now, that's a product that when you're a first time buyer aged 18 to 39, that's how old you have to be to open it. You can put the money in and the state will add 25% on top up to £4,000 of tax year added in. So you could move, let's say you've got £3,000 in your child trust fund. You could then open a lifetime ISA with that money, put the money in the lifetime ISA, and the state's going to add 750 quid on top. It's worth remembering though, you have to use it towards a property that costs under £450,000.

• 47:36Martin Lewis?

  If you don't, so you buy a property that's more expensive or you take it out for another reason, then you would pay a penalty. You could choose to invest it as well. Of course, I don't talk about investments, but you might want somebody at the age of 18. If you invest over the long term, that will tend to outperform savings. Or you could spend it. And the one final thing I would say is if you happen to have any expensive debts, it's unlikely as you've just turned 18. But it is far better to use savings to pay off debts or use savings to prevent you building up debt than it is to build up expensive debts. So they would be the main things I'd be looking at at 18. But in the meanwhile, you might, if it's a cash child trust fund, so savings child trust fund,

• 48:16Martin Lewis?

  you might want to see if you can get a better rate by transferring it to a cash junior ISA.

• 48:22Speaker 03

  Mandy's asking for a simple savings account for grandchildren without having to do it online. Is that possible?

• 48:27Martin Lewis?

  Yeah, I mean, there are, there are branch based accounts. The one thing I'd say is.

• 48:33Martin Lewis?

  Not doing it online, most young people are going to have almost all of their financial lives online. You might be thinking it's good for you not doing it online, but it's worth questioning, would it be better or worse to have online access for your grandchild? So you might decide there. I go back to that Yorkshire Building Society one day account, that's available by branch or post, so you don't have to do that one online. And that would probably be the best one for you. HSBC can be opened in branch, but you would need a parent or guardian to do it. That pays slightly more. So the other savings accounts I talked about earlier, which are age dependent, remember HSBC needs a parent or guardian with an HSBC account to open it online. Otherwise, it can be opened in branch if you're not

• 49:15Martin Lewis?

  an HSBC customer. And Nationwide Flex One, that one is only online or app, so you couldn't do it. So there are, there are many out there and also always check your local building society. But the question of whether you should do it online or not, I think it's a mix between what's right for you and what's right for your grandchild, if you forgive me. Chris has actually asked, why are the rates so bad compared to adult accounts? They're actually much of a muchness at the moment. We have an anomaly currently where we have a few cash ISA providers who are fighting to be the top payer and are all paying just over 5%, about 5.17, 5.18%. And they've been battling between them to be top of the best buys. That's not in normal savings, it's only in cash ISAs. And the reason they're doing it in cash ISAs is you can only put up to 20 grand into a new cash

• 50:00Martin Lewis?

  ISA a year. So they're not exposed as heavily as they would be if it were a top normal savings account. If you go to the top normal savings accounts for adults at the moment, you're talking about the 4.8%, whereas for kids, we're talking about 4.5%. So it is slightly lower. It's just because the market's less competitive, I would suggest. So thanks, Simon. I think that wraps it up for children's savings. And just again, that little note, if this is for your older children, don't do it for them, do it with them. It's a great way to give them a bit of financial education on top of moving their money to where it's worthwhile.

• 50:34Martin Lewis?

  Now let's do a few more tellers. What's the best thing you've ever legally blagged? I've got a few more. Simon, have you got some?

• 50:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. We've got this one from Dan. He got an upgrade to the presidential suite for one night in Nairobi for his honeymoon at the Serena Hotel. Very swish.

• 50:47Martin Lewis?

  Well, just being on a honeymoon is always a good way to get an upgrade.

• 50:49Speaker 03

  I must admit, I'm rubbish at all. So many of these were people on their honeymoons. On my honeymoon, I sort of tried to drop it in all the time and got nowhere. I think I was maybe too subtle and English about it. It needs to be brash and American.

• 51:03Martin Lewis?

  Yes. And I can't say, "Try harder next time, because hopefully it'll never happen." CJ, I hope your wife's not listening. CJ, "I once got an extra meatball from the woman working at the counter in Ikea, and I'd thought I'd won the lottery. Amazing."

• 51:22Martin Lewis?

  I know you didn't blag that!

• 51:23Speaker 03

  Hey, that's your small wins.

• 51:24Martin Lewis?

  That is, that's small wins. Yes, indeed. Melanie, "Replacement bulbs for my car headlights. The garage said they'd charge whatever I had in my pocket. I had a decorative metal lizard that I'd found. Fair swap, I think. Nice. Nice."

• 51:38Speaker 03

  Rones, "My friends lost our tickets to Arctic Monkeys in Berlin. We decided to try and find some spare tickets outside the venue. Met a guy on the guest list. He managed to blag us in, and he got us free return flights from London to Johannesburg."

• 51:50Martin Lewis?

  Wow, that's very good. Gemma, "I stayed the night at a Hilton for work about 10 years ago in Leeds. It was a really nice stay with a lovely meal and breakfast, so I approached the manager directly the next day and thanked them and gave them positive feedback. Told them how much I'd enjoyed the stay. So they gave me a voucher for a free night there with a meal to be used at any time in the next year. I wasn't expecting it." See, sometimes it's just being nice is working, isn't it?

• 52:14Speaker 03

  Amy has gone for a different tack. She doesn't know if this one counts, but she said she once bartered down some slippers down to a tenner in the flagship Oxford Road Topshop. The slippers were Moroccan style, so she figured she'd give it a go, and it worked.

• 52:27Martin Lewis?

  Another one of those disproportionate small satisfactions here. Darren, "When I was about seven, I had 10p to buy some sweets. 10p mixed up with the order of the day. Imagine my delight when the shopkeeper popped an extra blackjack chew into the bag, 10% extra for nothing." Nice. And I think this is a good one to end with, especially after all that's happened relating to Oasis this year. Christine, Oasis concert tickets back in 2005. I was on the train back from London and the guy opposite me was busy stuffing things into envelopes. I asked him what he was doing and he said it was concert tickets for the upcoming Oasis gig in Manchester. I jokingly said, if they were too spare, I'd love to go. He took down my name and told me they'd be too ready to collect on the night.

• 53:12Martin Lewis?

  And he was right. Brilliant performance. Wow. Wow, just asked and got. Nice one Christine. Great way to finish.

• 53:24Martin Lewis?

  Now, just time for a quick tip. How much do your Christmas lights cost to run? Here's my rule of thumb. If you're using LED lights, they are by far the cheapest. You're going to be paying roughly, on the current price cap, about one p every 12 hours per 100 bulbs that you have. If you've got incandescent lights, that's much more expensive. It's about one p every hour, so 12 p every 12 hours. And that's enough to make you incandescent with the cost. Again, per 100 bulbs that you have. So, if you run a 100 bulb string of LED lights for six hours a day for a month, it'd cost roughly 15 p. For incandescent bulbs, it's roughly one pound eighty.

• 54:08Martin Lewis?

  Clearly, if you use more lights, it will cost you more. So hopefully that gives you a rough idea of what you're going to be paying for your Christmas lights. If you've got a string of 100 of them and they're LED, well, even I would say, it's not that bad to have a little twinkle this Christmas.

• 54:26Martin Lewis?

  Now, let's talk about cash for a moment. Cash payments are on the up. It wasn't something I was planning to talk about. I actually managed to get into the studio a little bit earlier than normal. I was sitting there getting my prep ready to do the podcast. And the last item before my hour started, Adrian had someone in to talk about cash. Well, clearly, I couldn't sit there and say nothing, could I? So, we thought you might enjoy the listen. Have a listen to the cash discussion.

• 54:51Speaker 06

  Kevin Peachey joins us. Interesting news today for our cost of living correspondent about the use of cash. I always find this surprising as somebody who ends up, probably to my cost, just waving my phone to buy stuff.

• 55:05Speaker 04

  And when we spoke a few weeks ago, Adrian, I know you were rather taken by the size of the wallet that I carry around. And there's a library card in there, there's some stamps, there's a loyalty card, but there is some cash as well.

• 55:19Martin Lewis?

  Because retailers say one in five purchases made in cash last year. And here's the interesting bit, that's an increase for the second year in a row. That comes after, as in the proportion of transactions that are made in cash. And that comes after 10 years of falls. So there has been a reversal. Why is that? Well, what the British Retail Consortium, who've compiled these figures, are saying is that's because for many people, it's easier to budget with notes and coins. And we've all seen bills going up. And so it's easier to, with those notes and coins in your pocket or in your hand, knowing what you can spend and so on. And it probably is a bit of an age thing.

• 56:03Martin Lewis?

  Seventy-five percent of 16 to 24-year-olds say they use their mobile to pay, but certainly not exclusively an age thing.

• 56:09Speaker 06

  Martin has lifted his head up, which is an indication that he's got something to say. Would you say this is a good thing if it's coming from the need to budget, Martin?

• 56:18Martin Lewis?

  I think it's a very difficult one. Cash is one of the worst ways to pay. You don't get rewards, which you would get on the right form of debit or credit card. You have far less protection. I mean, cash is completely unprotected. If you buy something in cash and it is not delivered, or the company were to go bust afterwards, you have zero protection. On a credit card, you have section 75 protection, which means the credit card company is jointly liable with the retailer. So you could go to the credit card company instead, and it's actually easier because you can then take them to the ombudsman instead of court. With a debit card, you have chargeback protection. But if it works for people and budgeting is their necessity, then I'm not against it. And if it works for you, then do it as long as it works right. Now, it's interesting, as someone who never uses cash, I have a tenner kept in my wallet.

• 57:03Martin Lewis?

  That's all I ever do, just in case of an emergency that I need it. And many people in the digital age don't use cash. I have, however, been involved and was one of the supporters of the campaign to maintain cash. Because while it is very easy as we transfer to a digital age for people just to go, well, there's no point in cash anymore, for many older people, cash is absolutely a lifeline. And when we still have a generation of people for whom they can only use cash and find other purchasing methods more difficult to use, then I think as a society, we have to protect cash. We need to encourage stores to take cash, especially in London and other urban areas these days. There are many places that don't take cash anymore. And I think it's an accessibility issue for me.

• 57:47Martin Lewis?

  That's it for this week. If you've enjoyed it, please tell your friends you've been listening to the Martin Lewis podcast and do suggest to them and do it yourself. Why not subscribe? If you haven't enjoyed it, why have you been listening this long? It's your own choice. You could have switched off earlier. You have agency, you know, and that's what this podcast is about, teaching you that you have agency and you can make the-

• 58:23Speaker 02

  Martin Lewis is the founder of moneysavingexpert.com. But of course, other consumer and price comparison websites are available. You can get in touch with Martin's podcast production team by emailing [email protected]. The offers and rates mentioned in the podcast are correct at the time of recording. However, if you are listening on demand, it's worth double checking as details can date. Remember to subscribe on BBC Sounds and leave us a review however you listen.

• 58:58Speaker 04

  BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts.

• 59:03Speaker 02

  This week on The Interface, why Meta's banking on you watching movie-length videos on Instagram. Would you do it?

• 59:10Speaker 03

  Ninety minutes, just how Christopher Nolan intended. Plus, some troubling signs that the AI bubble may be bursting. And we'll be talking about some of the consequences, like the fact that tech companies might start selling your deepest, darkest secrets if they go bankrupt.

• 59:25Speaker 02

  Join me, Jess Maddox.

• 59:27Speaker 03

  And me, Thomas Germain, for The Interface.

• 59:29Speaker 02

  Listen wherever you get your podcasts or find us on YouTube.