#766: The Random Show — Lessons from Tim’s Sabbatical, Alzheimer's Breakthroughs, Kevin Tries a Medium, Fitness Tools and Protocols, Book Recommendations, and More

This time, we have a very special episode I recorded with my close friend Kevin Rose http://kevinrose.com/ in person at his house. We trade our latest discoveries, and I think it’s one of our best. Tons of actionable takeaways and laughing fits. We cover dozens of topics: new projects, what I’ve done on my recent sabbatical after the podcast’s 10th anniversary, Kevin’s latest findings and shenanigans, real vampire protocols, and much, much more. Sponsors: Helix Sleep https://helixsleep.com/tim premium mattresses: https://HelixSleep.com/Tim https://helixsleep.com/tim (25% off all mattress orders and two free pillows) AG1 https://drinkag1.com/tim all-in-one nutritional supplement: https://drinkag1.com/tim (1-year supply of Vitamin D (and 5 free AG1 travel packs) with your first subscription purchase.) Wealthfront https://wealthfront.com/Tim high-yield cash account: https://Wealthfront.com/Tim https://wealthfront.com/Tim (Start earning 5.00% APY on your short-term cash until you’re ready to invest. And when new clients open an account today, you can get an extra fifty-dollar bonus https://wealthfront.com/Tim with a deposit of five hundred dollars or more.) Terms apply. Tim Ferriss receives cash compensation from Wealthfront Brokerage, LLC for advertising and holds a non-controlling equity interest in the corporate parent of Wealthfront Brokerage. See full disclosures here https://wealthfront.com/Tim. Timestamps: [00:00] Start [07:40] A sabbatical recap and future podcasting plans. [15:25] PicStudio's disturbingly realistic AI-generated portraits. [17:25] Kevin's new Jess Mascetti tattoo. [18:08] Vampire facials and a platelet-rich plasma (PRP) problem. [22:22] Tequila martinis. [24:20] Romance versus radical planning. [32:50] Bobby Fingers. [34:46] Training for the hunt. [41:15] Fairbanks fun. [42:11] European dating. [43:46] Hasty oral hygiene with Feno. [48:00] The mysteries of mimetic contagion. [49:21] Big book beginnings. [50:15] Kevin's AI-powered investment advisor experiment. [51:34] Publishing strategies. [52:25] Why you should visit Ryan Holiday's bookstore. [53:53] A visit from a 14-year-old Toaster. [54:40] The Dog Aging Project. [55:14] Original Love: Zen master Henry Shukman's new app. [55:37] Kevin's Zen Hell week. [58:10] Dena Dubal's Alzheimer's treatment breakthrough. [1:07:45] Small expectations for a medium turn large. [1:14:44] Inexplicable skill efficacy and hypernatural happenings. [1:23:47] Another outstanding Addison-refined refreshment. [1:24:39] Unmissable media recommendations. [1:31:18] Taking ketamine seriously. [1:39:37] More tequila and tattoo talk. [1:40:27] What's the Flux? [1:45:34] A children's book for adults. [1:46:40] Are you hunting antelope or field mice? [1:48:12] Analyzing what "chill" looks like for me. [1:57:02] Parting thoughts. * For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show https://tim.blog/podcast, please visit tim.blog/podcast https://tim.blog/podcast/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast-description. For deals from sponsors of The Tim Ferriss Show https://tim.blog/podcast, please visit tim.blog/podcast-sponsors https://tim.blog/podcast-sponsors Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at tim.blog/friday https://go.tim.blog/5-bullet-friday-1/. For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts https://tim.blog/transcripts. Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books https://tim.blog/books. Follow Tim: Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss https://twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferriss https://instagram.com/timferriss/ YouTube: youtube.com/timferriss https://www.youtube.com/timferriss Facebook: facebook.com/timferriss https://www.facebook.com/TimFerriss/ LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timferriss http://linkedin.com/in/timferriss Past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show http://tim.blog/podcast include Jerry Seinfeld https://tim.blog/2020/12/08/jerry-seinfeld/, Hugh Jackman https://tim.blog/2020/06/26/hugh-jackman/, Dr. Jane Goodall https://tim.blog/2020/04/16/jane-goodall/, LeBron James https://tim.blog/2018/11/27/lebron-james-mike-mancias/, Kevin Hart https://tim.blog/2020/05/20/kevin-hart/, Doris Kearns Goodwin https://tim.blog/2018/09/07/doris-kearns-goodwin-leadership/, Jamie Foxx https://tim.blog/2015/12/06/jamie-foxx/, Matthew McConaughey https://tim.blog/2020/10/19/matthew-mcconaughey/, Esther Perel https://tim.blog/2017/05/21/esther-perel/, Elizabeth Gilbert https://tim.blog/2020/05/08/elizabeth-gilbert/, Terry Crews https://tim.blog/2017/12/20/terry-crews-how-to-have-do-and-be-all-you-want/, Sia https://tim.blog/2020/08/12/sia/, Yuval Noah Harari https://tim.blog/2020/10/27/yuval-noah-harari/, Malcolm Gladwell https://tim.blog/2016/06/21/malcolm-gladwell/, Madeleine Albright https://tim.blog/2020/05/27/secretary-madeleine-albright/, Cheryl Strayed https://tim.blog/2017/03/30/cheryl-strayed/, Jim Collins https://tim.blog/2019/02/18/jim-collins/, Mary Karr, https://tim.blog/2020/11/11/mary-karr/ Maria Popova https://tim.blog/2014/10/21/brain-pickings/, Sam Harris https://tim.blog/2020/05/15/sam-harris-2/, Michael Phelps https://tim.blog/2021/01/21/michael-phelps-grant-hackett/, Bob Iger https://tim.blog/2020/01/16/bob-iger/, Edward Norton https://tim.blog/2019/10/31/edward-norton-motherless-brooklyn/, Arnold Schwarzenegger https://tim.blog/2015/02/02/arnold-schwarzenegger/, Neil Strauss https://tim.blog/2014/06/24/neil-strauss/, Ken Burns https://tim.blog/2019/09/12/ken-burns/, Maria Sharapova https://tim.blog/2017/08/26/maria-sharapova/, Marc Andreessen https://tim.blog/2016/05/29/marc-andreessen/, Neil Gaiman https://tim.blog/2019/03/28/neil-gaiman/, Neil de Grasse Tyson https://tim.blog/2019/10/03/neil-degrasse-tyson/, Jocko Willink https://tim.blog/2016/09/21/jocko-willink-on-discipline-leadership-and-overcoming-doubt/, Daniel Ek https://tim.blog/2020/12/03/daniel-ek/, Kelly Slater https://tim.blog/2020/09/08/kelly-slater/, Dr. Peter Attia https://tim.blog/2019/11/27/peter-attia-fasting-metformin-longevity/, Seth Godin https://tim.blog/2016/02/10/seth-godin/, Howard Marks https://tim.blog/2018/09/25/howard-marks/, Dr. Brené Brown https://tim.blog/2020/02/06/brene-brown-striving-self-acceptance-saving-marriages/, Eric Schmidt https://tim.blog/2019/04/09/eric-schmidt/, Michael Lewis https://tim.blog/2020/05/01/michael-lewis/, Joe Gebbia https://tim.blog/2018/03/08/joe-gebbia-co-founder-of-airbnb/, Michael Pollan https://tim.blog/2018/05/06/michael-pollan-how-to-change-your-mind/, Dr. Jordan Peterson https://tim.blog/2021/03/01/jordan-peterson/, Vince Vaughn https://tim.blog/2017/05/31/vince-vaughn/, Brian Koppelman https://tim.blog/2020/04/23/brian-koppelman/, Ramit Sethi https://tim.blog/2019/05/07/ramit-sethi/, Dax Shepard https://tim.blog/2020/11/18/dax-shepard/, Tony Robbins https://tim.blog/2014/10/15/money-master-the-game/, Jim Dethmer https://tim.blog/2020/05/18/jim-dethmer/, Dan Harris https://tim.blog/2020/11/19/dan-harris/, Ray Dalio https://tim.blog/2017/09/13/ray-dalio/, Naval Ravikant https://tim.blog/2015/08/18/the-evolutionary-angel-naval-ravikant/, Vitalik Buterin https://tim.blog/2021/03/08/vitalik-buterin-naval-ravikant/, Elizabeth Lesser https://tim.blog/2021/03/16/elizabeth-lesser/, Amanda Palmer https://tim.blog/2019/04/18/amanda-palmer-2/, Katie Haun https://tim.blog/2021/02/18/katie-haun/, Sir Richard Branson https://tim.blog/2017/10/09/richard-branson/, Chuck Palahniuk https://tim.blog/2020/09/02/chuck-palahniuk/, Arianna Huffington https://tim.blog/2017/10/18/arianna-huffington/, Reid Hoffman https://tim.blog/2015/08/31/the-oracle-of-silicon-valley-reid-hoffman-plus-michael-mccullough/, Bill Burr https://tim.blog/2017/09/17/bill-burr/, Whitney Cummings https://tim.blog/2015/06/26/whitney-cummings/, Rick Rubin https://tim.blog/2015/05/15/rick-rubin/, Dr. Vivek Murthy https://tim.blog/2020/03/26/vivek-murthy/, Darren Aronofsky https://tim.blog/2017/09/09/darren-aronofsky/, Margaret Atwood https://tim.blog/2022/02/22/margaret-atwood/, Mark Zuckerberg https://tim.blog/2022/03/24/mark-zuckerberg/, Peter Thiel https://tim.blog/2014/09/09/peter-thiel/, Dr. Gabor Maté https://tim.blog/2018/02/20/gabor-mate/, Anne Lamott https://tim.blog/2021/07/09/anne-lamott/, Sarah Silverman https://tim.blog/2022/01/12/sarah-silverman/, Dr. Andrew Huberman https://tim.blog/2021/07/06/andrew-huberman/, and many more. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tim Ferriss?

  Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs. This is Tim Ferriss. Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show. It's been a while, where it's my job to interview world-class performers from every imaginable discipline to tease out, you guessed it, the habits, routines, favorite books, and so on, that you can apply to your own lives. 750 or so episodes and counting, so we've covered a lot of ground. This time, we have a very special episode. This is always a listener favorite, a recording with my close friend, Kevin Rose. Kevin Rose, for those who don't know, @KevinRose everywhere. He is indeed a world-class entrepreneur, serial founder, investor in the smallest of seed rounds up to the largest of companies. He is a full-spectrum, full-stack capitalist.

• 0:45Tim Ferriss?

  I don't know what the hell I'm saying. But we did this interview in person at his house, in the format of The Random Show. And what we always do, and we've done this for 10 years, I suppose now, we trade our latest discoveries, our latest findings, what our friends have sent to us. And I think it is one of our best. There's tons of actionable takeaways, lots of laughing fits, and that might have something to do with the fact that Kevin invited his friend and bartender to serve us cocktails. We cover dozens of topics, new projects, what I've done on my recent sabbatical, Kevin's latest findings and shenanigans, real vampire protocols, apparently that's a thing, and much, much more.

• 1:29Tim Ferriss?

  It even includes some incredibly bizarre footage of Kevin having his face assaulted by experimental technology. We videotaped that live together, and video is not at all required to enjoy this episode whatsoever. Audio is great. But for some extra hilarity, if you want to see that video I mentioned and more, simply go to youtube.com/TimFerriss. But first, just a few quick words from our sponsors who make this show possible. Way back in the day, in 2010, I published a book called The Four Hour Body, which I probably started writing in 2008. And in that book, I recommended many, many,

• 2:12Tim Ferriss?

  many things: first-generation continuous glucose monitor, and cold exposure, and all sorts of things that have been tested by people from NASA and all over the place. And one thing in that book was Athletic Greens. I did not get paid to include it. I was using it. That's how long I've been using what is now known as AG1. AG1 is my all-in-one nutritional insurance, and I just packed up, for instance, to go off the grid for a while. And the last thing I left out on my countertop to remember to take—I'm not making this up, I'm looking right in front of me—is travel packets of AG1. So rather than taking multiple pills or products to cover your mental clarity, gut health, immune health, energy, and so

• 2:56Tim Ferriss?

  on, you can support these areas through one daily scoop of AG1, which tastes great, even with water—I always just have it with water. I usually take it first thing in the morning, and it takes me less than two minutes total. Honestly, it takes me less than a minute. I just put it in a shaker bottle, shake it up, and I'm done. AG1 bolsters my digestion and nutrient absorption by including ingredients optimized to support a healthy gut in every scoop. AG1 in single-serve travel packs, which I mentioned earlier, also makes for the perfect travel companion. I'll actually be going totally off the grid, but these things are incredibly, incredibly space-efficient. You could even put them in a book, frankly. I mean, they're kind of like bookmarks. After consuming this product for more than a decade, I chose

• 3:38Tim Ferriss?

  to invest in AG1 in 2021, as I trust their no-compromise approach to ingredient sourcing and appreciate their focus on continuously improving one formula. They go above and beyond by testing for 950 or so contaminants and impurities compared to the industry standard of 10. AG1 is also tested for heavy metals and 500 various pesticides and herbicides. I've started paying a lot of attention to pesticides—just a story for another time—to make sure you're consuming only the good stuff. AG1 is also NSF-certified for sport. That means, if you're Nathalie, you can take it. The certification process is exhaustive and involves the testing and verification of each ingredient and every finished batch

• 4:19Tim Ferriss?

  of AG1. So they take testing very seriously. There's no better time than today to start a new, healthy habit. And this is an easy one, right? Wake up, water in the shaker bottle. AG1, boom. So take advantage of this exclusive offer for you, my dear podcast listeners, a free one-year supply of Liquid Vitamin D plus five travel packs with your subscription. Simply go to drinkag1.com/tim. That's the number one, drinkag1.com/tim for a free one-year supply of Liquid Vitamin D plus five travel packs with your first subscription purchase. Learn more at drinkag1.com/tim.

• 5:00Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Helix Sleep. Helix Sleep is a premium mattress brand that provides tailored mattresses based on your sleep preferences. Their lineup includes 14 unique mattresses, including a collection of luxury models, a mattress for big and tall sleepers, that's not me, and even a mattress made specifically for kids. They have models with memory foam layers to provide optimal pressure relief if you sleep on your side, as I often do and did last night on one of their beds. Models with more responsive foam to cradle your body for essential support in stomach and back sleeping positions and on and on. They have you covered. So how will you know which Helix mattress works best for you and your body? Take the Helix Sleep quiz at helixsleep.com/tim and find your perfect mattress in less than two minutes. Personally, for the last few years, I have been sleeping

• 5:44Tim Ferriss?

  on a Helix Midnight Luxe mattress. I also have one of those in the guest bedroom, and feedback from friends has always been fantastic. They frequently say it's the best night of sleep they've had in ages. It's something they comment on without any prompting from me whatsoever. Helix mattresses are American-made and come with a 10- or 15-year warranty, depending on the model. Your mattress will be shipped straight to your door, free of charge, and there's no better way to test out a new mattress than by sleeping on it in your own home. That's why they offer a 100-night, risk-free trial. If you decide it's not the best fit, you're welcome to return it for a full refund. Helix has been awarded number one mattress by both GQ and Wired magazines. And now Helix has harnessed years of extensive mattress expertise to bring you a truly elevated sleep experience.

• 6:29Tim Ferriss?

  Their newest collection of mattresses, called Helix Elite, includes six different mattress models, each tailored for specific sleep positions and firmness preferences, so you can get exactly What your body needs. Each Helix Sleep mattress comes with an extra layer of foam for pressure relief and thousands of extra micro coils for best in class support and durability. Every Helix Sleep mattress also comes with a 15 year manufacturer's warranty and the same 100 night trial as the rest of Helix's mattresses. And you, my dear listeners, can get between 25 and 30% off plus two free pillows on all mattress orders. So go to helixsleep.com/tim to check it out. That's helixsleep.com/tim.

• 7:13Tim Ferriss?

  With Helix, better sleep starts now.

• 7:18Tim Ferriss?

  At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking. Can I ask you a personal question?

• 7:24Speaker 01

  No, it would seem inappropriate.

• 7:28Speaker 02

  I'm a cybernetic organism living tissue over metal endoskeleton.

• 7:41Tim Ferriss?

  Hello, friends and family. Welcome to the Random Show. I am here in my studio with Tim Ferriss. Tim, you're here in my house. I know, it's so nice. I shouldn't say that my studio is my house. We can still see that, it's fine. But it's in your, it's in your back cave. I'm glad you're here, brother. It's good to see you in person. Yeah, it's great to see you. I'm really, really thrilled that it worked out. And what better way to get off of my podcast sabbatical than with saying hi to my good friend Kevin? How did that feel, by the way? So the sabbatical, first time in 10 years. Yeah. That I've taken a break from the podcast. And it's been four months roughly of sharing a lot of the greatest hits. And it's been a combination of feeling fantastic.

• 8:23Tim Ferriss?

  And I've been working on other projects that are really energy in for me. My first new book in seven years that I've been working on. That's not a sabbatical, by the way, but. Well, usually though, in fairness, the word sabbatical is typically used in academic circles. And when they take a break from teaching, they do other things, right? They, they do other things. And I think you and I, for being honest, are both working dogs. Like, we can take breaks, but it's like you take a, you take some type of. Working dog, like a border collie, you stick it in your apartment in New York City and it doesn't run and you're like, why is it chewing the couch?

• 8:57Speaker 02

  Right.

• 8:58Tim Ferriss?

  It has to run. So for me, to do the deep work of books specifically is just a different shift, different gear than feeling the pressure of putting out a podcast once or twice a week.

• 9:12Speaker 02

  Do you think that idea of shifting between those two, like podcast and then book, podcast, book, if you had to do that?

• 9:17Tim Ferriss?

  No.

• 9:17Speaker 02

  It breaks up your train of thought too much so, or so much so that you wouldn't be able to have, like, do you need that undivided time?

• 9:24Tim Ferriss?

  You need the undivided.

• 9:24Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 9:25Tim Ferriss?

  Cause that, that. Yeah, and I'll make, I'll make a recommendation or something that makes it very clear. There's an essay by Paul Graham, so co-founder of Y Combinator, famous for many different reasons, also spectacular writer, very good painter also, I believe. But he wrote an essay called "The Top Idea in Your Mind," or "A Top Idea in Your Mind." And it talks about effectively attention as a currency and the importance of, there's a separate one, maker's schedule versus manager's schedule, something like that, but the importance of uninterrupted blocks of time, particularly if, for instance, you're dealing with a complex project, this is true of coding, for instance, also true of writing, where you're juggling like 27 balls in the air.

• 10:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 10:07Tim Ferriss?

  And if you get distracted and you drop four, you have to start over again and you have to build that rhythm and it takes a really long time.

• 10:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:14Tim Ferriss?

  So if I'm thinking about the pressures of, or the prep for, even if I'm having fun of a podcast.

• 10:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:20Tim Ferriss?

  It's basically robbing myself of, let's just call it 20, 30, 40, 50% of the subconscious cycles.

• 10:26Speaker 02

  Right.

• 10:27Tim Ferriss?

  That I could apply to the book, even when I'm not thinking about it.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  Right. I mean, for something like this, obviously we're just bullshitting, but like I'd imagine a typical guest for you on the kind of research and due diligence side is like, you know, is that a couple of days work for you in terms of like prep?

• 10:41Tim Ferriss?

  It can be a couple of days. In the case of some guests, it can be a few weeks.

• 10:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:44Tim Ferriss?

  If it's way outside of my normal areas of expertise.

• 10:47Speaker 02

  Oh, interesting.

• 10:48Tim Ferriss?

  And even if we look at a few days, it's a lot of prep, it's a lot of thinking about the interview, even when I'm done prepping, which avenues I might take based on answers that go in a particular direction. So I take the craft of podcasting very seriously, although it's been a chance also for me, and I wanted to take this sabbatical not just to say work on the book, but to think about first 10 years have been great. If I continue to do this, which I would like to do, how do I keep it as exciting for me personally?

• 11:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 11:20Tim Ferriss?

  As possible? And if I do that, can I differentiate it in a podcast ecosystem that is increasingly oversaturated?

• 11:29Speaker 02

  Yes. This is the reason I just stopped doing podcasts.

• 11:32Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 11:33Speaker 02

  Well, I didn't stop it, but I cut back to like one episode every six weeks.

• 11:36Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  And it's because when I have a guest on, I totally get what you were saying because I remember I hit you up. I had a dear friend that launched a new book and you're like, hey, I'm not doing any new books. And when you look at that person, great book, I loved it. They did 10 podcasts, right? And they all talk about the same thing.

• 11:51Tim Ferriss?

  Same thing.

• 11:52Speaker 02

  Right. So then you're just playing the like, okay, maybe I want Tim's version. Maybe I want, you know, whoever else, top 10 podcaster out there.

• 12:00Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 12:00Speaker 02

  And-

• 12:00Tim Ferriss?

  But you're eating kung pao chicken no matter what.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  Right.

• 12:03Tim Ferriss?

  Like, it's just like, whose sauce is slightly different?

• 12:05Speaker 02

  Exactly. And it doesn't feel as additive to the ecosystem to just do the same thing that's going around on the circuit.

• 12:11Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, so let me get your take.

• 12:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:12Tim Ferriss?

  And also for people listening, I would love your take. I mean, I'm doing a lot of reflection on my own, so I'm not just outsourcing this. But in terms of rules for myself moving forward, I've thought about a few things. One is to basically take a barbell approach where I'm interviewing people who effectively no one has ever heard of.

• 12:30Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:30Tim Ferriss?

  Right? So who knows? The popcorn king of Milwaukee or whatever, right? Some master who has not ever made the rounds.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 12:37Tim Ferriss?

  Ideally, it's someone, for instance, who's never done a long form interview, like Jocko Willink, the first time he was on the podcast. Or whatever it might be. Or on the opposite, very far end, it's someone almost everyone would know, right? Like a Bezos or fill in the blank, but very little in between. Because the podcasting circuit has largely become 20 or 30 podcasts at a time of book authors doing the modern equivalent of a radio satellite tour.

• 13:03Speaker 02

  Right.

• 13:04Tim Ferriss?

  And I just don't particularly want to participate in that anymore.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:09Tim Ferriss?

  Right?

• 13:10Speaker 02

  But with the Bezos, I'd imagine like, you're not going to go like, hey, tell me about Q4 of last year at Amazon.

• 13:15Tim Ferriss?

  No, I'd want to make it more-

• 13:17Speaker 02

  Tell me about like, how was your divorce? Like, or you know, like shit that like you could get into. Hopefully that is uniquely, you know, you haven't heard anywhere else.

• 13:24Tim Ferriss?

  And I'd want it to be evergreen.

• 13:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:26Tim Ferriss?

  I really don't want to, and this is to my economic detriment, right? But I don't want to chase the current controversy of the day.

• 13:32Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 13:32Tim Ferriss?

  I don't want things that are going to expire in two months.

• 13:35Speaker 02

  Right.

• 13:36Tim Ferriss?

  I want my back catalog to be as interesting to people as the newer episodes.

• 13:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 13:40Tim Ferriss?

  And that's going to mean taking probably a pretty major financial haircut, but I'm totally fine with that at this point because also you have to think about, say, if you're thinking about the economic side of things, like there's the short term and there's the long term, right? If I get so apathetic or bored that I stop doing the podcast, well, that's the end of the income, period.

• 14:01Speaker 02

  Right.

• 14:01Tim Ferriss?

  So if I ratchet it back 40%, let's just say in terms of volume, but I do it for longer over time and my audience can tell that I'm really excited about the episodes that I'm putting out, which I in general have been.

• 14:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:13Tim Ferriss?

  There are very few compromises I've made, but I can see the slippery slope of just taking whatever gets pitched to you by publicists for the latest and greatest book.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:21Tim Ferriss?

  So these are all considerations.

• 14:23Speaker 02

  I love that, man. I think that's a great approach. I'd much rather see the longevity of Tim and higher quality episodes than just banging them out every single week.

• 14:31Tim Ferriss?

  And I really, I don't feel like I've made many compromises, but there have been a few where I'm like, I don't want to do this kind of interview again.

• 14:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:38Tim Ferriss?

  And I've also thought in terms of format of basically doing co-hosted catch-ups with friends. So for instance, I might have, and none of these people have agreed, so I don't want, well, actually, I'm not even going to mention names, but you can imagine some of my closest friends who've been on the podcast, who are very, very smart and good at asking questions. I catch up with them. They suggest a guest they think we could interview together.

• 15:00Speaker 02

  Hmm, that's fun.

• 15:01Tim Ferriss?

  And then I'm catching up with a close friend while we're interviewing someone.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  Oh, that's cool.

• 15:04Tim Ferriss?

  I think that would be great. I think that'd be super additive to my life.

• 15:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:08Tim Ferriss?

  And then hopefully that transmits in the same way that I think a large reason, say, the All In Podcast has become massively popular is because of that interplay. And it's fun. I always enjoy this type of banter.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:22Tim Ferriss?

  And we've got a lot to cover today. So yeah, why don't you hop in?

• 15:25Speaker 02

  So Addison, are you around? We have my dear friend Addison, who lives here in LA, who is a part-time, semi-professional bartender mixologist, not really, but you know, he does that for fun. And he also does an AI company, part-time, called PickStudio.ai, which just came out with a new model. And you know how these AI models are changing so fast, right? And so I would say, you know, when I was first messing around with this with him like a while ago, it was pretty good. It was good. It was like, I used it as a headshot for a couple of places, right? But you could still kind of like look at it. If you looked, if you squinted, you'd be like, hmm, AI, right?

• 15:59Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, uncanny valley. He'd be like, wait a second.

• 16:00Speaker 02

  So they came out with a new model and I wanted to show you, uh, we'll see if Addison's going to make us some drinks as well. I want to show you a couple of pictures of yourself. Dude, this is a brand new model. Holy shit, that's insanity. Is that insane? And we'll put these up on YouTube and other places so people can see the images. That's terrifying. Dude, how real does that look? I'm looking good. Yeah, you're looking, this should be your new dating profile picture. Now that one, you're a little preppy there. I'm a little, I'm a little preppy, but you know, this is like. The ocean looks nice. What's crazy is the kind of full body dimension accuracy. Yeah. That's nuts. Yeah, he was saying that you can like use the prompt now to say like this shirt type or like. Yeah, so. Is your Steve Jobs?

• 16:43Speaker 02

  So looking at these photos, I would say even I would be like, wait a second. Did I face that photo? Did I ever take that photo? No, that's not me. That is terrifying. I know. It's terrifying. It's awesome though at the same time. It's awesome and terrifying. Yeah. And it's, and I mean, in short order, we're already seeing memes turned into videos. Yes. Right? I mean, it's gonna be the wild west. It already is. It's gonna be crazy. Speaking of looking good though. You're looking great. And I want to do your, your, your dating life update as well. Oh my. But, but we need a drink first. Awesome. Yeah. Okay. Jesus, one job, uh, two jobs, AI in this. I'm just kidding, just kidding. Okay, so. Speaking of looking good, you want to show off your new tattoo?

• 17:27Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, I just got a, a little crane here. Jess Machete on, uh, on Instagram. She's amazing. Uh, New York based tattoo artist. She's done Bruce Willis, a bunch of other really famous kind of people in the past. I was wondering why you had Bruce Willis on your forum. Yeah, exactly. How did you choose that? You probably know this, but in, in Japanese lore, children's books and others, the crane is a symbol of, uh, because of its length, that can span heaven and earth. And so it's used as a bridge for souls to transfer between heaven and earth. I, I just like that lore. Yeah. It's, it's cool. And, uh, so one day I got the meditator done by her on the front of me as well. So. Wow. Got, got both, but she's insanely, insanely talented. Very talented. Yeah. Beautiful artwork.

• 18:06Speaker 02

  We'll link to her profile in the, in the old show notes. So you were looking really good on Instagram and you posted that you got a vampire facial done.

• 18:16Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, vampire facial. Yeah, so I put up a photo which popped up on my phone. It was generated by the phone. And it had, you know, today, eight years ago, and it was a photo of me from eight years ago. And I realized, which I more or less hoped would be the case and really pushed for, which was like, all right, I lost my hair pretty early and then I looked older than my friends. And I was like, I just need to make it like the next 10 years and train my ass off and watch my diet. And I think I'll kind of flat line or plateau in terms of how I look.

• 18:44Speaker 02

  Right.

• 18:45Tim Ferriss?

  And so the photos made it look, I think, like I had largely not aged in eight years.

• 18:50Speaker 02

  It looked amazing.

• 18:51Tim Ferriss?

  It looked amazing. So I put up eight years on the Romanian vampire protocol trademark. And then I put RVP in parentheses, will do wonders for your skin. And it was a total joke on my part.

• 19:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 19:05Tim Ferriss?

  Unbeknownst to me, though.

• 19:07Speaker 02

  Well, you put, you turned off comments, too.

• 19:09Tim Ferriss?

  I turned off comments. Yeah, there's a long story behind that. We won't get into, but.

• 19:12Speaker 02

  But the reason that was funny is because so many people.

• 19:14Tim Ferriss?

  I didn't get any of the feedback.

• 19:15Speaker 02

  Giving the feedback, there is a such thing as a vampire facial. And you were joking. And I looked at, I was like, oh shit, Tim does the vampire too. I'm like, wow, he's been doing it for a long time. He's never told me about it, you know?

• 19:25Tim Ferriss?

  So what is, what is the vampire facial?

• 19:27Speaker 02

  So about a month ago now, I was at the dermatologist and you know, you go in once a year and get your, all your warts and shit looked at to make sure you don't have any cancer. And I go in there and they're like, hey, like, you know, you want some good shit, you know, like.

• 19:39Tim Ferriss?

  I had, now that I'm looking at your eyes, we were talking about like crow's feet and turning them back into crow knuckles. I don't see anything.

• 19:45Speaker 02

  It looks good, right?

• 19:46Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, you don't even have crow knuckles.

• 19:47Speaker 02

  Thank you for the compliment.

• 19:48Tim Ferriss?

  You're welcome.

• 19:49Speaker 02

  But I will tell you that, you know, the options they have are all of the LA shit, which I don't want to do. Like, I don't want to get Botox all on my face and shit.

• 19:56Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. You don't want to be a lizard cat?

• 19:58Speaker 02

  Lizard cat?

• 19:59Tim Ferriss?

  Walk among the lizard cat people.

• 20:00Speaker 02

  Exactly. I mean, it just looks horrible. Cause like you can tell.

• 20:03Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, please don't, please don't do that.

• 20:05Speaker 02

  But I'm sure you could get by with it for a couple of years and then you look like a plastic dude.

• 20:09Tim Ferriss?

  So now vampire, because they are taking out your blood.

• 20:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 20:13Tim Ferriss?

  Spinning it.

• 20:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 20:14Tim Ferriss?

  Creating something known as.

• 20:15Speaker 02

  Platelet rich plasma.

• 20:16Tim Ferriss?

  Yes. And you've had that done before.

• 20:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:18Tim Ferriss?

  Not the facial, though.

• 20:20Speaker 02

  No.

• 20:20Tim Ferriss?

  So tell people why you did it.

• 20:21Speaker 02

  Prior to The Four Hour Body or in the process of writing The Four Hour Body, which is all about.

• 20:26Tim Ferriss?

  Physical performance.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:27Tim Ferriss?

  And modification and performance enhancement. That book was published in 2010 and at the time I was using PRP because it had been used at that time for certain types of joint degeneration or orthopedic issues related to joints.

• 20:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:42Tim Ferriss?

  So I had interarticular joint injections in the elbows, shoulders.

• 20:46Speaker 02

  That's not the one you got infected by, was it?

• 20:47Tim Ferriss?

  One of them was sadly a disaster.

• 20:52Speaker 02

  Oh, boy.

• 20:53Tim Ferriss?

  And whenever you inject anything, there's a chance that you introduce pathogens through the skin. Now, what I did not realize at the time is that this particular clinic, who will remain unnamed, when they injected the elbow, they used the wrong injection site. And so they disinfected the surface level of the skin.

• 21:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 21:13Tim Ferriss?

  But there are so many layers to the skin and the skin is so thick on the elbow that there were staph bacteria beneath that first disinfected area. The needle pushed that into the joint capsule.

• 21:24Speaker 02

  Jesus.

• 21:24Tim Ferriss?

  And then within 48 hours, my elbow is the size of a volleyball.

• 21:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 21:29Tim Ferriss?

  And I was chatting with a doctor friend of mine who, this was probably 11:00 PM at night, San Francisco.

• 21:35Speaker 02

  By the way, this is 12 years ago.

• 21:37Tim Ferriss?

  Something like it, 12 years ago.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  Remember I came and visited you at the hospital?

• 21:40Tim Ferriss?

  What was that? Oh, yeah, that's right. And.

• 21:42Speaker 02

  You squirted juice out of your.

• 21:43Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, that was gross. Yeah, so a few things happened. Number one is my very competent doctor friend said, touch your elbow, is it hot?

• 21:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 21:51Tim Ferriss?

  And I said, yes. And she said, you need to go to the emergency room immediately. Here's the one you should go to. Tell them this. And I did. And a few hours later, they're removing copious amounts of just disgusting.

• 22:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I'm in the room.

• 22:04Tim Ferriss?

  Monster fluid.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  You hit me up and you're like, I'm in the emergency room or whatever. I've got this infection or whatever. And I'm like, I should go check in on Tim. I go down there and I was, I want to say, didn't some of it squirt against the wall?

• 22:16Tim Ferriss?

  There was a syringe full of all this disgusting juice.

• 22:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, because they're pulling it out.

• 22:19Tim Ferriss?

  I squirted it at you like a turkey baster.

• 22:21Speaker 02

  That's right. Fuck her. You're like, oh, Addison, thank you so much, sir.

• 22:25Tim Ferriss?

  Thank you very much.

• 22:26Speaker 02

  This looks amazing.

• 22:27Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, God, thank you.

• 22:28Speaker 02

  Thanks, brother.

• 22:29Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  Awesome.

• 22:30Tim Ferriss?

  What is it?

• 22:31Speaker 02

  What is this? Tequila martini. Tequila martini.

• 22:34Tim Ferriss?

  Martini.

• 22:35Speaker 02

  Cheers. Cheers. This is your tequila too that you invested in?

• 22:38Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah. Lalo Tequila. Check it out. Only alcohol brand I've ever invested in.

• 22:41Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 22:44Speaker 02

  So, yeah, you squirted staph infection at me, you fucker.

• 22:47Tim Ferriss?

  I did.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  Which I'm like, looking back at that, I'm like, that was a pretty dick thing to do.

• 22:53Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I knew I wasn't getting in the eyes. I wasn't gonna fandom of the opera view. Uh, but PRP.

• 22:58Speaker 02

  Damn, this is a good drink.

• 22:59Tim Ferriss?

  It is a great drink. Yeah. So PRP, to be clear, number one, it's your own blood.

• 23:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 23:05Tim Ferriss?

  Number two, it can be, in some instances, really, really effective for orthopedic issues. But there, there's quite a bit of published literature, so you can look it up. But I was unfamiliar with the applications to the vampire facial.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  So I go in, they draw about three vials of blood, they spin it, they come back with something that looks like, um, grape juice in the vials. And then they, they take a microneedling kind of like, it almost looks like, uh, some type of like automatic toothbrush or a tattoo gun almost.

• 23:32Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  And then they go across your face and they first like pepper your skin, all these little tiny micro holes. And then they lather it with all the PRP. And then you go home and you're a little like bruised up and stuff like that. And then a week later, like some of the lines like just like start to get reduced.

• 23:47Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I'm actually kind of shocked looking at your beautiful baby eyes.

• 23:51Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 23:52Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 23:52Speaker 02

  They're gonna do four of them in total. I had to get the package. You save, you save some money. You got like 20% off. It was a good, it was a good package. So, you know, it's like for me, I'm like, dude, I'm fine getting old. If anyone's listening to this, be like, oh, they're being too vain or whatever. I'm fine with that. I don't care if I get wrinkles on that. That said, you know, a couple more years of like, just like looking okay is like, doesn't hurt anybody. It's natural. It's my own shit, you know?

• 24:13Tim Ferriss?

  Totally.

• 24:14Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 24:14Tim Ferriss?

  So.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  Helps with the dating life.

• 24:16Tim Ferriss?

  Helps with the dating life. Well, I, yeah, modern dating, you know, we don't have to spend a lot of time on it.

• 24:22Speaker 02

  A little bit, though. Tell me, what is it like on the other side?

• 24:24Tim Ferriss?

  What's it like on the other side?

• 24:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, you went to Paris.

• 24:28Tim Ferriss?

  Well, I went to Paris.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  How was that?

• 24:29Tim Ferriss?

  And actually, I want to give them a shout out. I stayed at-

• 24:32Speaker 02

  All the women in Paris?

• 24:33Tim Ferriss?

  No, not all the women in Paris. I went to an artist's commune, effectively, or a utopian community. They might not like this description.

• 24:41Speaker 02

  Like a den?

• 24:42Tim Ferriss?

  Well, it's a, it's an old chateau called Fatopia.

• 24:47Speaker 02

  Like in that Monty Python and the Holy Grail, where that guy gets stuck in that, do you know what I'm talking about, where he gets stuck in the castle and there are, we are all but 20 to 30 year old women. Do you know what I'm talking about? He's stuck in there.

• 24:58Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I mean, that was the hope. But it was, it was a broader spectrum of participants. And I have really been making an effort. And I think there's a religious war afoot, which is, well, there are many religious wars, right? There's like sleep training versus attachment style parenting.

• 25:14Speaker 02

  Right.

• 25:15Tim Ferriss?

  People love factions and fighting.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 25:17Tim Ferriss?

  Another one is, and I've been thinking about writing a blog post about this. Let's just call it romance versus radical planning. So when I talk about some of the more systematic ways that I'm approaching dating, what some people will say is, that's so unromantic. To which I usually reply, now, what does romantic mean? Walk me through what a week of taking a romantic approach would look like.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 25:39Tim Ferriss?

  Usually, they don't have an answer. What they mean is serendipity, luck, et cetera.

• 25:43Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 25:43Tim Ferriss?

  And I am providing space for that, like going to Paris or outside of Paris to something like Fatopia, which was an amazing experience. But I think also, if you are, let's just say, I'll think this out loud. If you're in college, or if you're in a company and you're right out of college, there's a lot of natural inbuilt serendipity. Or if you live in a place like Manhattan.

• 26:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, a lot of people are single around your age.

• 26:11Tim Ferriss?

  Right, exactly, around your age.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  Around your age, you do social meetups all the time. You don't have things to do at night, you don't have kids yet.

• 26:17Tim Ferriss?

  Exactly. So there's a lot of space for serendipity. Let's just say you already have inbuilt 30, 50, 60% serendipity, where if you want to meet literally 100 plus new people a month, it's very easy. As you get older, as your friends, all due respect, beautiful face aside, age out, basically, they're not going to be making introductions to maybe women who are in the age range I would be aiming for, because I would like to have a few kids biologically.

• 26:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, so you're dipping down a little bit.

• 26:45Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah, right.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  And-

• 26:47Tim Ferriss?

  20s.

• 26:49Tim Ferriss?

  I mean, look, I mean, maybe in the 28 to 35 range, right? Somewhere in there.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  36, you'd be like, alright, maybe.

• 26:56Tim Ferriss?

  I want somebody who's

• 26:58Speaker 02

  Ready.

• 26:58Tim Ferriss?

  Very ready, excited to build a family, also has a good sense of their own identity, feels confident in being good at having developed skills or passions in certain areas. I want them to feel very happy with what they've done, so they don't have, say, resentment later if they feel like they've given up everything as it was just getting started.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  It's a great point. So you want someone that's kind of like, they've probably even established a career at this point, that that's what they've chosen to do, they're like, they're confident in who they are, they're like, okay, I'm, you know, mid 30s, I'm thinking about kids in the next couple of years, like, that kind of situation?

• 27:33Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 27:34Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 27:34Tim Ferriss?

  But I've realized, for instance, because I've gone on a few dates with lawyers or doctors in those age ranges, they've been through so much schooling, they're just getting out of the gate and starting to get traction. So it's very hard, I think, for a woman in that position to think about having kids in the next three years.

• 27:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 27:51Tim Ferriss?

  Very hard.

• 27:52Speaker 02

  Right.

• 27:52Tim Ferriss?

  After so much investment in their education and career and so on. So it's been a learning process. I've met a lot of amazing people. I think that frankly, if I want to really double and triple down, I just have to spend a bunch of time in a few major cities.

• 28:09Speaker 02

  What's the biggest turn off for you when you sit down on a date and somebody says something or does something like, what's your, what's your number one, like, this thing ain't gonna work?

• 28:17Tim Ferriss?

  Well, there are a lot of little things, but I think most people would find these irritating, right? If someone's late repeatedly and they don't let you know until the time you're supposed to meet, that's just

• 28:30Speaker 02

  I'm a very punctual person.

• 28:31Tim Ferriss?

  That's just not being an adult, right? And I want to be with an adult

• 28:34Speaker 02

  Right.

• 28:34Tim Ferriss?

  who is responsible. If we're gonna build a family together, I need to know you have your shit together.

• 28:38Speaker 02

  Interesting. Yeah, that's fair. I feel the same way. If I'm, even like a buddy, if I'm running five minutes late, I'm like, hey, right around the corner, blah, blah.

• 28:45Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, and if someone's repeatedly late, it means they probably haven't operated in higher stress situations or environments, because

• 28:56Tim Ferriss?

  You get punished for that, right?

• 28:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:59Tim Ferriss?

  It doesn't work. So that'd be one. And also, I would say that for me, I'm looking for someone who is a compliment, not a duplicate, right? I'm not like Tim Ferriss with long hair is my ultimate nightmare. Like, I don't need to date that person.

• 29:13Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 29:13Tim Ferriss?

  No, we'd kill each other.

• 29:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:15Tim Ferriss?

  Right? So that varies person to person. But for me, that means someone, let's just say you have a spectrum, like a slider in the middle. This is my, my working theory. It seems to hold up. So if you had a slider in the middle, you have, let's just call it perfect androgyny. And we won't stumble over the terms. If, if you want exact definitions, just choose your own. But let's just say it's perfect 50/50 feminine masculine characteristics. And then as you move out in either direction, you kind of have 100% masculine, 100% feminine.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 29:46Tim Ferriss?

  I think good matches-

• 29:47Speaker 02

  Don't tell me you want 50/50.

• 29:49Tim Ferriss?

  No, no, I don't want 50/50. What I've seen in couples that really, really work well-

• 29:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:53Tim Ferriss?

  Is they tend to be equally distant from the center.

• 29:56Speaker 02

  Oh, interesting.

• 29:57Tim Ferriss?

  And by the way, that's not a gendered thing. Like, you could have, for instance, I know couples where like the male is really playful, A, B, and C, has characteristics that might be traditionally defined as feminine. Wife is like COO, runs the ship. That's fine.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:13Tim Ferriss?

  But they're equally distant from that center point.

• 30:16Speaker 02

  Right.

• 30:17Tim Ferriss?

  And that equivalent polarity seems to work.

• 30:20Speaker 02

  That is fascinating, because I've had this conversation where I find that if you are so in the center and you're like 50/50 and no one is stepping up to be either masculine or feminine, in a traditional kind of like male female role that we're talking about here, obviously, there's so many other ones out there, it's very confusing.

• 30:39Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 30:39Speaker 02

  Because you're like, well, either you do something or I need to do something. But it's like, what is this like, this kind of like boring middle?

• 30:47Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, totally. I mean, I think if you look at primates, you look at humans, it's like we like to know sort of where we stand or like what we're supposed to do. What is our job? And so I think that can take a lot of different forms energetically. Like let's take gender out of it, like even within a company, right? Like if it's a pure, flat meritocracy, no job titles, if things get amorphous, it's going to be very confusing. So I do think there's a comfort that can come that is hard to put words to with matched polarity. Yeah. Which again, it's not a gendered thing. It's more like a constellation of characteristics.

• 31:30Tim Ferriss?

  Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. This episode is brought to you by Wealthfront. There is a lot happening in the US and global economies right now. A lot. That's an understatement. Are we in a recession? Is it a bear market? What's going to happen with inflation? So many questions, so few answers. I can't tell the future. Nobody can. But I can tell you about a great place to earn more on your savings and that's Wealthfront. Wealthfront is an app that helps you save and invest your money. And right now you can earn 5% APY. That's the annual percentage yield with the Wealthfront cash account. That's more than 10 times more interest than if you left your money in a savings account at the average bank, according to fdic.gov. So why wait? Earn 5% on your cash today. Plus,

• 32:15Tim Ferriss?

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• 32:43Tim Ferriss?

  Should we shift gears a little bit?

• 32:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's do it.

• 32:45Tim Ferriss?

  Thank God. Get me off the hot seat.

• 32:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was just gonna ask how the Paris dating scene was.

• 32:49Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, so I want to make a couple of recommendations.

• 32:51Speaker 02

  Yes, please.

• 32:52Tim Ferriss?

  Do you know who Bobby Fingers is?

• 32:54Speaker 02

  Sounds familiar.

• 32:55Tim Ferriss?

  So, always a safe thing to say. I think I've heard of him.

• 33:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:00Tim Ferriss?

  Tell me more. So Bobby Fingers is one of my favorite discoveries on YouTube of the last decade. And he is one of the most unbelievably skilled artists, craftsmen, sculptor, polymaths. He's also hilarious and his writing is incredible. He's a performer and makes the most bizarre shit you've ever seen in your life. So they're like 10 to 30 minute long descriptions of him making something beautiful and then like hiding it by burying it somewhere. And there's one of the, let's say the scene with Michael Jackson where his hair catches on fire and he's building this entire diorama.

• 33:42Tim Ferriss?

  There's one of the Mel Gibson DUI stop from way back in the day. And I would say that if you want to see something that I think is pure genius.

• 33:53Speaker 02

  So is this a video or what is this exactly?

• 33:55Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's a video channel. So if you go to Bobby Fingers, at Bobby Fingers on YouTube, you can find him on Patreon as well, patreon.com/BobbyFingers, youtube.com slash at Bobby Fingers. And this guy should have, in my opinion, hundreds of millions of views.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  What's he at now? Is it like bigger?

• 34:14Tim Ferriss?

  I mean, for what he's doing, I think it is so hard to categorize.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:18Tim Ferriss?

  That it hasn't had as much spread as it deserves.

• 34:21Speaker 02

  195,000 followers, still decent.

• 34:23Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, he's doing well.

• 34:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:24Tim Ferriss?

  But I really feel a moral, maybe amoral slash immoral obligation to recommend people go check this out.

• 34:30Speaker 02

  Oh, this is amazing.

• 34:31Tim Ferriss?

  There will be plenty to offend everyone, but it is so genius. And unlike anything I've ever seen in my life, I strongly recommend people check it out. And two of my favorites, there are many good ones, but I would say Michael Jackson or Mel Gibson are a great place to start.

• 34:45Speaker 02

  That's awesome. All right. I will check that out. Have you, by the way, were you doing Ozempic in this shot or?

• 34:50Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, wow. Look at that. I'm so glad AI shaved my chest for me too. I am looking good. Dude, that is legit. Yeah. I mean, that is if you were 007. I mean, honestly, what's crazy to me about that. Is how much you actually look like that. How much, how great I look in those speedos. But separately is the lighting. Yeah. It looks real. That's really. Makes you want to go back to the gym. I mean, why go to the gym when I can just put that on? Exactly. Actually, I've been training, I've been training very hard recently and feeling very good. I'm not taking Ozempic, but I have been using a few different tools that I thought people might find. Yeah, let's hear it.

• 35:30Tim Ferriss?

  Interesting. So one, which was recommended to me by a two-time silver medalist in Olympic archery, Jake Kaminsky. I would also recommend people check out his channel if you want to learn anything about archery, especially recurve. He is amazing, both as a performer, proven performer, but as a teacher. So Jake Kaminsky, with a bunch of I's, Kaminsky. He recommended the Outdoorsman Atlas Trainer Frame System. So what is this? I'll tell you the problem it solves. So I own a bunch of rucking sacks. So these are backpacks. I rock too. With weights in them. Yeah. And there are a few issues with the sacks that I've owned to date. One is that they're usually a set weight. You can swap out these huge square plates.

• 36:16Tim Ferriss?

  Secondly, they don't necessarily have a waist or kidney belt. So the weight is on your shoulders and not also shared on your hips. Right. And this particular system is effectively a frame hiking backpack. It's very well constructed. Right. And it has plate loading on your back. So you can put Olympic plates on it. So any weight plates you might have in a gym or that you might buy at Dick's Sporting Goods or whatever that you could use for a barbell, you can slap onto this thing. Oh, that's amazing. So you can adjust it in amazing increments and then use progressive resistance.

• 36:51Speaker 02

  And do you want more weight on your hips? I know, I know for like, don't get me wrong, like obviously like long-term 50 mile hikes or whatever, you want to get the, the weight onto the hips. You know, I got my DEXA scan done, which I'm sure you've done before, low radiation.

• 37:03Tim Ferriss?

  Yep.

• 37:04Speaker 02

  Calculates all different types of muscle and fat types and bone density. My bone density is going down.

• 37:09Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, me too.

• 37:09Speaker 02

  And one of the things that Atiya told me and his staff was like, rocking. Get weight on the bones so that you can like, you know, maintain that bone density.

• 37:20Tim Ferriss?

  Yep.

• 37:20Speaker 02

  Why throw it on the hips when I leave it on the shoulders?

• 37:23Tim Ferriss?

  All right, so there are a few reasons for that. The first is, we've talked about this a lot on this show and offline too. I've had, it's improved dramatically, but for the last two years, I mean, I've been plagued by incredibly painful, chronic low back pain.

• 37:35Speaker 02

  You've had back issues for a long time, dude.

• 37:37Tim Ferriss?

  Especially the last two years, to the point where there have been moments, say a year, year and a half ago, where I couldn't stand or sit for more than five minutes.

• 37:44Speaker 02

  Oh geez.

• 37:45Tim Ferriss?

  And.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  Oh, that's right. Did you, you were carrying around that little ball or something that you put behind your back? Wasn't there something?

• 37:49Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I still have that.

• 37:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:50Tim Ferriss?

  For, for really uncomfortable seats, if I have to be on, say, a plane for a few hours or something like that. Use a little Pilates ball, which you can fold up and stick in your pocket. It's actually great for lumbar support. But the point is, I am specifically training for a hunt that I have at the end of this month. I do not hunt often. The first hunt I ever did was for the Four Hour Chef, long ago. That was 2012, but I would have done it probably 2010 or 2011. And I just feel very good about sourcing ethical, clean meat with wild harvesting. And in this case, it's an elk hunt. I've done exclusively bow for probably close to 10 years now. But part of that.

• 38:28Speaker 02

  Well, some of the endangered species stuff you do though, I just can't get behind. I just, for some reason.

• 38:33Tim Ferriss?

  I know, I don't know why you sent back my snow leopard pancakes.

• 38:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 38:36Tim Ferriss?

  No, in this case, you do it the right way. You get tags, everything is wildlife management. But if you're going to do that, you're going to be at high altitude, you're going to be, in this case, it's called bivvy hunting, I'm going to be carrying everything. How do you have so many flies in your pristine?

• 38:50Speaker 02

  It's one fly. It's Southern California.

• 38:52Tim Ferriss?

  Recording studio. In any case. It likes you. I know. Love you too, Fly. So you're going to be carrying basically your camp with you every day. And that's probably going to be between nine and 12,000 feet above sea level. And then if you harvest an animal, you're going to be field dressing it, breaking it down into pieces. And you might be carrying an additional 50 pounds. You don't want all that on your shoulders. That would also be a very bad idea for me, not that you would do it anyway in that circumstance, to load that on my shoulders, which would place a lot of that on my lower back, which is compromised. Right. I have some pathological issues with my low back and my SI joint. So I shift a lot of it to the hips. You are taking some of it on the shoulders. You don't have any meat chirpahs or anything that go with you?

• 39:35Tim Ferriss?

  I think we might have one or two people who are there just to be part of the trip and might help with carrying. But you have to keep in mind, like if you take down a larger bull elk, you might have, I mean, hundreds of pounds of meat. How do you keep that meat fresh? There's a number of different, no, number of different ways you might approach it. Given the time of year and the elevation, it's going to get pretty cold. So a lot of folks first would hang the meat as they're sort of deconstructing the animal in the field and let it cool down. Then you put it into meat bags, which look like big socks effectively. And then how they're going to actually protect that at camp or how they'll place it, et cetera, remains to be seen.

• 40:15Tim Ferriss?

  I am always going out with people who are effectively professional outdoorsmen who make, I'm always the slow fat kid, always. So part of the reason I'm training my ass off is to not completely embarrass the person who invited me. That's gonna be awesome, though. That sounds fun. Yeah, it's great. So I'm doing a lot of rucking, also doing a lot of training on activating, say, glute medius, performis, hip internal and external rotators. And the more I do that,

• 40:45Tim Ferriss?

  The less the obliques and other muscles turn on to compensate and stabilize the low back and the less low back pain I have. So that's been another big breakthrough in terms of the low back issues. But honestly, if you do some rucking, maybe some kettlebell swings once or twice a week, some pushups and some core work, you're done. Like you're really hitting everything.

• 41:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love rucking. Rucking has been kind of my three to five days a week, four miles each time with elevation. And it's just like, you just, in an hour and a half, you, oh, we got a new corner.

• 41:15Tim Ferriss?

  Refill, coming in hot.

• 41:17Speaker 02

  What is this?

• 41:18Speaker 03

  Okay, sorry, I know you like tequila, but to pause.

• 41:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:23Speaker 03

  This is called Fairbanks.

• 41:26Speaker 02

  Fairbanks, what's in it?

• 41:27Speaker 03

  Apricot liqueur.

• 41:30Speaker 02

  Oh, this is one of your favorites. I know this one.

• 41:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is like one of my bitters and rye whiskey.

• 41:35Speaker 02

  Rye, apricot liqueur, and thank you.

• 41:37Tim Ferriss?

  Bitters and rye whiskey.

• 41:38Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Appreciate that. Cheers.

• 41:41Speaker 03

  Do some other stuff.

• 41:43Speaker 02

  Exactly. Tim has a board of flight after this.

• 41:45Tim Ferriss?

  Here we go.

• 41:46Speaker 02

  Fireball shots.

• 41:47Tim Ferriss?

  Cheers, Kevin.

• 41:49Speaker 02

  Cheers. I want to watch reaction. There we go.

• 41:53Tim Ferriss?

  Reaction shot.

• 41:53Speaker 02

  This is one of his favorite drinks to make.

• 41:56Speaker 03

  That's really nice. I know you said not too sweet, I tried the...

• 42:00Tim Ferriss?

  It's not too sweet.

• 42:01Speaker 02

  Isn't that good?

• 42:02Tim Ferriss?

  And it has the fancy ice cubes, too.

• 42:03Speaker 03

  It's spirit forward, for sure.

• 42:04Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, spirit forward. That's in my dating bio.

• 42:07Speaker 02

  Exactly. So with Paris, for the... Hold on, just tell me, tell me what they look like, because they got a good fashion sense of.

• 42:16Tim Ferriss?

  Well, you know, part of what I was interested to see, I spent almost eight weeks in Europe, was how does dating differ in different places in Europe?

• 42:23Speaker 02

  They're a little softer out there, though.

• 42:24Tim Ferriss?

  Not necessarily, not necessarily, no. So it varies tremendously by country, I would say. And of course, there's a huge range within each country. But say in, dating in France is very different from dating in Madrid, which is very different from dating in other places. It really varies tremendously. But part of what I'm hoping for is finding someone, and these women exist, but a lot of women, understandably from a million reasons, feel very conflicted and are put in, I think, a difficult position, frankly, when thinking about career, kids, basically trying to do... More than any person in history had to do like before 50 years ago.

• 43:05Speaker 02

  All right, let's not go back into this.

• 43:06Tim Ferriss?

  No, I'm just saying that.

• 43:07Speaker 02

  No, I hear what you're saying.

• 43:08Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's very challenging. So what I want to get a real clear signal on is that somebody is excited to be a mom in the same way that I'm excited to be a dad. And that it's not, well, all my friends are getting married. I guess this is what you do.

• 43:20Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:21Tim Ferriss?

  Even though I'm gonna make all these compromises and might resent it later. I don't want to subject a kid to that.

• 43:27Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 43:28Tim Ferriss?

  Potential risk, right?

• 43:30Speaker 02

  That's wise of you.

• 43:31Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, so, so that's what I'm looking for. And, but it's not, there isn't some Garden of Eden where you magically just walk down Whole Foods and pick up, you know, women like that. But there are some significant cultural differences from place to place.

• 43:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:45Tim Ferriss?

  So, yeah, let's, let's move on.

• 43:47Speaker 02

  All right, so I have a gift for you.

• 43:49Tim Ferriss?

  I have a gift? What kind of you? Oh, wow.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  This is called a Fino.

• 43:52Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, my God.

• 43:53Speaker 02

  This is my buddy's new startup.

• 43:55Tim Ferriss?

  Okay.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  And in the

• 43:57Tim Ferriss?

  Thank you.

• 43:58Speaker 02

  self experimenting, kind of crazy vein of things.

• 44:00Tim Ferriss?

  All right.

• 44:01Speaker 02

  I want to show you this now.

• 44:02Tim Ferriss?

  Fino, F E N O.

• 44:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, so this is, okay, this is a beta.

• 44:05Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 44:06Speaker 02

  Okay, so you can't laugh at me because remember, you're gonna be doing this by yourself.

• 44:09Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, God.

• 44:10Speaker 02

  This is not like a flashlight or anything.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 44:14Tim Ferriss?

  What the fuck?

• 44:14Speaker 02

  So this is a medically proven way to brush your entire mouth in 20 seconds.

• 44:21Tim Ferriss?

  Wow, okay.

• 44:22Speaker 02

  So

• 44:22Tim Ferriss?

  All right, that's interesting.

• 44:23Speaker 02

  So watch this.

• 44:24Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, wow, you're gonna try it?

• 44:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm gonna take a little of this here. You put a little foam in here.

• 44:27Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 44:28Speaker 02

  And so there's, this, they have this little app that custom creates a mold. I estimated your mouth size.

• 44:32Tim Ferriss?

  You didn't buy this from an ad on Pornhub?

• 44:33Speaker 02

  No, exactly. So this is gonna look a little mouth aggressive. Okay, so if you're watching the video.

• 44:45Tim Ferriss?

  Spirit forward, mouth aggressive. That's also my bio.

• 44:47Speaker 02

  Exactly, so what you do is that this was created by a couple of founders that, you know, obviously were, one of them was a dentist and they figured out that, you know, compliance is really hard with people, say, everyone says they floss, they don't.

• 44:59Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 44:59Speaker 02

  You know, like, do you floss?

• 45:01Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, like seven times a day.

• 45:04Speaker 02

  So, so check this out. So I put this in my mouth and this is gonna wrap around both sides of my gums.

• 45:09Tim Ferriss?

  How are you gonna rinse that?

• 45:10Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 45:10Tim Ferriss?

  All right, let's see, let's see, it's gonna be good.

• 45:11Speaker 02

  Uh huh. Hello?

• 45:31Speaker 02

  I couldn't stop it.

• 45:35Tim Ferriss?

  Holy shit.

• 45:38Tim Ferriss?

  You definitely bought that on Pornhub.

• 45:42Speaker 02

  No, I did not, but it works surprisingly well.

• 45:45Tim Ferriss?

  I'll try it.

• 45:46Speaker 02

  I got one for you.

• 45:47Tim Ferriss?

  Thank you.

• 45:48Speaker 02

  I gotta say that I do love, it has sensors in there.

• 45:52Tim Ferriss?

  I know, I bet it does.

• 45:53Speaker 02

  You're doing it by yourself, so you don't look like you're getting mouth red every time.

• 45:56Tim Ferriss?

  I can see you winking, I can see you winking.

• 45:59Speaker 02

  It is aggressive, but I will say that it is very, it does a very good job cleaning.

• 46:04Tim Ferriss?

  Aggressive but effective.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  Aggressive but effective, and it's 20 seconds, which is great. They have sensors that actually scan your gums, look at gum health, and can send it back to your doctor.

• 46:12Tim Ferriss?

  What?

• 46:12Speaker 02

  So it tells. On the device? Built into the device.

• 46:14Tim Ferriss?

  Okay.

• 46:15Speaker 02

  And so that your doctor can actually see recession and like things that are happening with their gums. So it's like a very tech forward device.

• 46:21Tim Ferriss?

  You know, I had my first real surgery was when I was a kid for receding gingiva. I actually had a huge piece of my upper, well, I guess your only palate removed and grafted.

• 46:32Speaker 02

  Holy shit.

• 46:33Tim Ferriss?

  Onto my lower gums.

• 46:34Speaker 02

  Like sugar and shit? Like what were you doing?

• 46:35Tim Ferriss?

  No, it's just genetic. Like my gums were receding when I was a kid. It was, I don't know how old I was, maybe 12, something like that. It was brutal.

• 46:42Speaker 02

  That's the first time I've ever done that. That was a.

• 46:45Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, vigorous.

• 46:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a, it's like, it's like a.

• 46:49Tim Ferriss?

  I'm so.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  It's stretchy.

• 46:51Tim Ferriss?

  Upset that I did not video that from this direction.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  We've got to go here, we've got that camera right there.

• 46:55Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, that's the slow mo. We need that in slow mo.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  So.

• 46:58Tim Ferriss?

  It's the intro to the episode.

• 47:01Speaker 02

  Listen, hey, you know what's funny is like when I was putting together these stories for the Random Show, I'm like, I love, if you look back historically at all the years we've been doing this episode.

• 47:09Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 47:10Speaker 02

  We've had some of the most craziest, stupidest shit.

• 47:12Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 47:13Speaker 02

  And talked about the dumbest stuff. I mean, we already today talked about you squirting your freaking infectious fluid.

• 47:18Tim Ferriss?

  That's true.

• 47:18Speaker 02

  My body. Like, we've done some weird shit. And so I always try and like to find stuff. I mean, this is like both cool.

• 47:24Tim Ferriss?

  Every once in a while, one of those things, five years later, look at that everywhere.

• 47:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Remember, dude, I talked about Ethereum for the first time on the show.

• 47:32Tim Ferriss?

  I do. When was that? That was. God, that was a long time ago. That was when I was still living in my first place in San Francisco.

• 47:39Speaker 02

  I watched the clip and I'm like, oh, there's this one cryptocurrency you shouldn't care about. And you're like, no, no, no, tell me, tell me. And I'm like, well, it hasn't launched yet. You're like, what is it? I'm like, well, it's called Ethereum.

• 47:46Tim Ferriss?

  When was that? That was like 20, like, it had to be like, yeah, 2014 or something. I mean, it was way back then. It was way back in the day. I remember exactly where we were sitting by the fireplace in my first rental in San Francisco.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  That was a cool spot.

• 47:59Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 48:00Speaker 02

  All right, your turn. What do you got?

• 48:01Tim Ferriss?

  My turn. I would say that I can't say too much about it. You're gonna hate that.

• 48:08Speaker 02

  But we never asked what your book was about, but anyway.

• 48:11Tim Ferriss?

  I can't really, so I

• 48:12Speaker 02

  I know you never talk about that shit.

• 48:13Tim Ferriss?

  I'll talk about a superstition that may actually have something to it. So I, as well as a handful of other authors I know really well, who've written a lot of books, feel like there is such a thing as, let's call it memetic release. And what I mean by that is, I think it's fairly frequently observed that you'll have some, as an example, intractable scientific problem, or some scientific problem that researchers around the world are grappling with. And there's almost no apparent major progress made for years and years and years. And then within the same two week period, people in all these different locations suddenly make breakthroughs. What is happening there?

• 48:55Tim Ferriss?

  And what I have observed, and again, this is getting into maybe what people would consider magical thinking, but I can't explain it, doesn't mean there isn't an explanation. When people talk about ideas, that idea seems to suddenly pop up in a lot of other places. Now, you could make the argument that that's maybe expectancy bias, right? You buy a, if you buy a Hyundai,

• 49:16Speaker 02

  It's a red Hyundai. All you see is red Hyundai's.

• 49:18Tim Ferriss?

  Then you, all you see is red Hyundai's, right? So there could be an element of that. But there seems to be more to it, which is part of the reason why I don't talk about the key core concepts in a book before I release something. But I will say in terms of progress, in case anybody's wondering, have probably 500 to 600 pages drafted.

• 49:37Speaker 02

  Oh shit, it's a big book.

• 49:38Tim Ferriss?

  Got a lot. Yeah, I mean, all my books are phone books. And that is gonna get cut down, probably. Well, actually, it's probably gonna get to like 800 and then it'll get cut down to like 500 or 400.

• 49:47Speaker 02

  Did you use any AI? In crafting this.

• 49:50Tim Ferriss?

  I did not.

• 49:51Speaker 02

  Nothing.

• 49:51Tim Ferriss?

  Not yet.

• 49:52Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 49:52Tim Ferriss?

  Not yet.

• 49:53Speaker 02

  Will you apply that to some of the chapters?

• 49:54Tim Ferriss?

  I might, I might apply it. In combination with test readers, looking for gaps in the material. Basically use AI as a critic.

• 50:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 50:06Tim Ferriss?

  And try to find gaps that would be ultimately helpful to mainstream or a larger audience of readers. I could see using it that way.

• 50:15Speaker 02

  I did a really cool thing the other day where I took a critic custom chat GPT. And I uploaded, I went back and I looked at every single book that Warren Buffett had ever recommended. Okay. The Intelligent Investor, like all these, right? And I found the PDFs from them all there because they're like, you can just Google them. They're there.

• 50:33Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 50:33Speaker 02

  And I uploaded them all to the chat GPT.

• 50:36Tim Ferriss?

  All right.

• 50:36Speaker 02

  And I said, you're my investment advisor.

• 50:38Tim Ferriss?

  All right.

• 50:38Speaker 02

  What should I do in this particular situation? And I'm asking questions of this custom save chat GPT based on all of Buffett's favorite books. It's freaking fascinating.

• 50:47Tim Ferriss?

  You know, you could probably also do is take all of his annual letters.

• 50:50Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. A hundred percent. I have that. There's a book about his annual letters that I uploaded into it.

• 50:54Tim Ferriss?

  The green cover.

• 50:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're in there.

• 50:55Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:56Speaker 02

  So.

• 50:56Tim Ferriss?

  That's so cool.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  What happened? Well, I just got some insights. Like I was asking like.

• 51:00Tim Ferriss?

  By Louis Selhaj.

• 51:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, it turns out index funds is all says back to me. It's like, you idiot, stop.

• 51:06Tim Ferriss?

  Don't outsmart yourself.

• 51:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. But I mean, there's very specific questions you have around, you know, timing of markets or not. Not that I didn't ask that particular question, but like, you know, things around the markets where you're like, okay, how do you feel about our current state when we think there's gonna, the Fed is gonna cut rates over the next 12 months? You know, what do you think about bonds, blah, blah? And it just like spits back very intelligent responses based on historic data, which I find is just like, I mean, that is so cool. That's really cool. Anyway. I'm excited for your book. When will it launch though? When are we talking? I mean, you're 500, 600 pages in.

• 51:39Tim Ferriss?

  So I've been thinking about a few different options. One is doing it the way that I have done it in the past, which is to release it all at once as a book launch. There will definitely be some new experimental wrinkles to that, no matter what.

• 51:54Speaker 02

  Traditional publisher? Because before you did Amazon once, you did.

• 51:58Tim Ferriss?

  Well, I did Amazon publishing, which at that time you could consider a traditional publisher. So in structure, it was very similar. They just had the distribution advantage of Amazon. This time around, we'll see. I mean, I could very easily see doing ebook, audio on my own or through an Amazon platform.

• 52:14Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 52:15Tim Ferriss?

  And then possibly doing a print only deal. Or doing print on demand, frankly, like the quality print on demand has improved so

• 52:21Speaker 02

  It's insane, yes.

• 52:22Tim Ferriss?

  It's absolutely perfectly sufficient.

• 52:25Speaker 02

  Dude, I was at Ryan Holiday's, I went to his bookstore outside of Austin, which was amazing.

• 52:29Tim Ferriss?

  Painted Porch, it's a great, great bookstore.

• 52:30Speaker 02

  He has the best bookstore.

• 52:32Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 52:32Speaker 02

  What a life.

• 52:32Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 52:33Speaker 02

  I love him, he's such a good dude. I went to his bookstore and you know-

• 52:35Tim Ferriss?

  Beautiful, it's such a beautifully curated art project-

• 52:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 52:41Tim Ferriss?

  That is driven by him.

• 52:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 52:43Tim Ferriss?

  If you want to see sort of a new manifestation of the best of old school bookstores, visit Painted Porch.

• 52:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's like about a half hour to 40 minute drive outside of Austin.

• 52:54Tim Ferriss?

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:54Speaker 02

  Uh, he's got cats walking around there. It's all of his favorite books.

• 52:58Tim Ferriss?

  He even has cats.

• 52:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's even cats for the cat lovers. But the thing I would say that was really cool is that he actually had his books printed, like higher end versions of his books, like leather bound, like super high end versions-

• 53:10Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 53:11Speaker 02

  That he had done that were just insane quality.

• 53:14Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, beautiful.

• 53:14Speaker 02

  Like, and those are kind of like as you need them, like kind of like on demand, you know, it's amazing.

• 53:18Tim Ferriss?

  There's a bit of trivia for folks, well, I'll give trivia on trivia, so trivia, tri-via, wreath, three roads. It's actually these little tchotchkes that travelers would put down for good luck on their path at intersections of paths. So that's where trivia comes from. But separately, the painted porch refers to Stoicism, which comes from the Greek stoia, because early iterations of the philosophical tenets of Stoicism were taught in this open air porched area. So that is why his bookstore is called the Painted Porch.

• 53:53Speaker 02

  We got 14 year old Toaster, almost 14 year, coming to visit us.

• 53:56Tim Ferriss?

  You were saying he's totally deaf, but he still remembers me, came up, licked my face.

• 54:00Speaker 02

  You know what he did, he's done courses of rapamycin.

• 54:03Tim Ferriss?

  Oh yeah?

• 54:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I put him on it a few years ago.

• 54:06Tim Ferriss?

  And?

• 54:06Speaker 02

  And it seems to be working, I mean dude, you see him, he's moving around great, he's almost 14.

• 54:10Tim Ferriss?

  I know, this brings back so many memories, I mean, back way, way back in the day. I'm looking at Dari, hi Dari. I remember recording on your couch, this was back still on dig, dig days.

• 54:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:21Tim Ferriss?

  And, and Toaster was a little pupper and he was chewing on the XLR cables and almost killed our podcast. And killed himself.

• 54:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 54:29Tim Ferriss?

  And here he is, all these years later, wagging his tail.

• 54:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, I caught him like halfway through one time, a, an actual full like voltage cable at the wall. And it's just like, yeah, it was.

• 54:40Tim Ferriss?

  So rapamycin, we've probably talked about before, but people can check out, I'm not sure what his current status is, but the dog aging project. I did a podcast with Matt K. Berlin.

• 54:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, University of Washington, you and I both support that funding wise to fund that and power that study.

• 54:53Tim Ferriss?

  Yep.

• 54:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, so did PRTA, so did Brian Armstrong from Coinbase, like we all kind of chipped in to see what would happen.

• 55:02Tim Ferriss?

  Really, really, really fascinating work. So people are interested in rapamycin for potential longevity applications can take a look at that. I did an interview separately with Matt K. Berlin, which I really, really enjoyed. What else do you have?

• 55:15Speaker 02

  I have one quick update, one just for, for people to check out. So Original Love, Henry Schukman's new book, who is my Zen master, got to give him a plug. He's such an awesome human.

• 55:23Tim Ferriss?

  He's a great guy.

• 55:24Speaker 02

  And his, his app, The Way, fantastic meditation app you and I are both investors in. I always want to give Henry some love because he's such a good soul. This book was fantastic.

• 55:33Tim Ferriss?

  You did some, so that's called?

• 55:35Speaker 02

  Original Love, yeah.

• 55:36Tim Ferriss?

  All right. You did some training recently and you sent me the schedule, the daily schedule. What did your daily schedule look like and how long did it last?

• 55:44Speaker 02

  So I went to a five day silent meditation retreat with his master, who is the head of the Zen sect out of Japan, flew in for this. Into Santa Fe, New Mexico. And so I will tell you when you sit with Henry and you do, I've done a seven day silent retreat with him in the past. If it's just Mountain Cloud Zen Center, which is his Zen Center, it's probably four hours of sitting a day. And then there's like, you know, walking meditation and a stretching thing. Like when the Zen master's there, like when the guy from Japan's there, like it's like legit.

• 56:14Tim Ferriss?

  Hell week.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  It's hell week for meditation. So I was up at 5:00 AM every morning and I didn't get to bed till probably like released at like 8:30 and I was sitting for most of the day.

• 56:24Tim Ferriss?

  So one thing I wanted to ask you about, because I saw it in there, there's a lot of sitting meditation. I'm like, okay, that sounds uncomfortable doing that for eight hours a day. Which, you know, I tried once, people who want to read about my like complete.

• 56:35Speaker 02

  You were also doing mushrooms at the same time.

• 56:37Tim Ferriss?

  And fasting for like six days. Yeah. If people want to read about my self inflicted implosion, that's in a separate interview. But the chanting before mealtime?

• 56:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:47Tim Ferriss?

  What's the story here?

• 56:48Speaker 02

  In Zen, traditional monasteries and whatnot where they have actual monks, there is a lot of, it's only like 10 minutes. It's just kind of reciting.

• 56:57Tim Ferriss?

  Try chanting for 10 minutes, tell me it's only.

• 56:58Speaker 02

  No, but it's just like reciting a lot of the precepts and a lot of like.

• 57:02Tim Ferriss?

  Is it in English, Japanese?

• 57:03Speaker 02

  Uh, sometimes in Japanese, sometimes in English, depending on who's running it.

• 57:07Tim Ferriss?

  Do you have a little like Psalm book that you read from?

• 57:10Speaker 02

  Yes, is one that's in Japanese 100%. I don't even know what I'm saying. It could be like large donkey cock.

• 57:16Tim Ferriss?

  McDonald's, donkey cock, garbage bag.

• 57:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, so.

• 57:19Tim Ferriss?

  Triceratops.

• 57:20Speaker 02

  I don't know what to say, but it's quite nice. It's just like a way to kind of like in cap a set, you know? And then, and then move into the next thing.

• 57:28Tim Ferriss?

  So good after being totally silent.

• 57:30Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 57:31Tim Ferriss?

  Just to like hear some voices.

• 57:32Speaker 02

  I know. I, I went out afterwards because I was waiting for my plane to, to fly out and I went to this place because Santa Fe is known for their like chilies, like their good chilies. And I had like, because you eat vegetarian food the entire week.

• 57:45Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I was immediately wondering how'd that go for you?

• 57:46Speaker 02

  Oh dude, I, I went straight to a double chili burger and a large IPA, like straight out the gate. Which is probably.

• 57:53Tim Ferriss?

  You sent photos.

• 57:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I'm sure I did. Yeah, to you and Saka. Yeah.

• 57:59Tim Ferriss?

  So was that disaster pants at 30,000 feet?

• 58:02Speaker 02

  It was definitely like, my, my stomach was not happy. I was, uh, I was paying for that. But yeah, so I do, how much time do you have? Cause I know you have.

• 58:09Tim Ferriss?

  I have time.

• 58:10Speaker 02

  Okay, do you want to cover it? I got a really crazy one.

• 58:12Tim Ferriss?

  Let's do crazy.

• 58:13Speaker 02

  Okay, crazy is that.

• 58:14Tim Ferriss?

  Cut it out if you can, but are you allowed to talk about cloth though yet?

• 58:18Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, I mean, so Peter Attia did a fantastic episode, which we both, I would say would highly recommend.

• 58:24Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 58:24Speaker 02

  With Dina, who is a fantastic researcher at UCSF. She has identified a compound called cloth though, which is just absolutely insane.

• 58:33Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. So in fairness, it was identified by Japanese research.

• 58:36Speaker 02

  Sorry, sorry, my bad, my bad. But she's spent a good part of her career.

• 58:39Tim Ferriss?

  She is one of the foremost experts in the world, for sure.

• 58:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. So she did, um, she did an episode with Attia that was a deep dive for about an hour and a half. And it is, I mean, do you, do you have the, the kind of stats in front of you? I can ballpark it if you want.

• 58:52Tim Ferriss?

  Why don't you ballpark it?

• 58:53Speaker 02

  So the ballpark in my understanding is that, so clotho, just so people know, is it's naturally produced in humans, especially under high intensity kind of interval exercise. So you get more natural level of this. We all have it in our blood right now. As you age, you get less of it. Okay? So the interesting thing in humans that they know is that people that have these, there's two genes and there's these genetic polymorphisms. And if you are an over producer, if you have these SNPs where you're an over producer, meaning you naturally produce more of this clotho, you just get dramatically less dementia risk. And even if the very famous gene out there is the APOE, APOE three, APOE four genes, whereas if you are a four carrier, meaning like most people are three, three, if you're a three,

• 59:37Speaker 02

  four, you're like something like five to seven times more likely to get Alzheimer's. If you're a four, four, you're kind of fucked. It's like 80% of people get Alzheimer's or something like that. If you have one of these SNPs and you are way more likely to get it, but you're also an over producer of clotho, it evens out the playing field. You have the same risk of dementia. So now the crazier shit is like, forget the mouse studies, the mouse studies are all awesome. They reverse dementia and all that shit when they give them clotho. When you give it to monkeys, even if they don't have dementia, they're like instantly, this is a subcutaneous shot.

• 1:00:07Tim Ferriss?

  Monkey limitless.

• 1:00:08Speaker 02

  They instantly become like 20% smarter, like for four weeks, instantly from just getting a little boost of clotho.

• 1:00:13Tim Ferriss?

  It's gonna be in the headline, monkey limitless.

• 1:00:15Speaker 02

  Dude, it's nuts. It's nuts. So, you know, we're very close to finishing the deal, but at True Ventures, we're writing a very big check that I'm leading around into, we're gonna get this in humans in the next year and a half. You're gonna participate.

• 1:00:28Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:28Speaker 02

  Ateam is gonna participate.

• 1:00:30Tim Ferriss?

  And I can read quickly.

• 1:00:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, please.

• 1:00:32Tim Ferriss?

  Just for people who want to check it out. So this is the name, I believe it's the name of the episode that Peter has on The Drive, which is his podcast. A breakthrough in Alzheimer's disease, the promising potential of clotho for brain health, cognitive decline, and is a therapeutic tool for Alzheimer's disease. So I have Alzheimer's on both sides of my family. So this is.

• 1:00:50Speaker 02

  But you're a three, three though, right?

• 1:00:51Tim Ferriss?

  I'm a three, three.

• 1:00:52Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:00:52Tim Ferriss?

  But I have been interested in tracking this for so long in terms of possible therapeutic interventions.

• 1:00:57Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:00:57Tim Ferriss?

  That's why I studied neuroscience initially as an undergrad.

• 1:01:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:01:00Tim Ferriss?

  That's why. I was initially, the very first check I ever cut for supporting science was for Adam Gazali and some of his early stuff.

• 1:01:08Speaker 02

  That's awesome.

• 1:01:09Tim Ferriss?

  Way back in the day.

• 1:01:09Speaker 02

  I've also given Adam some cash to go do some cool stuff.

• 1:01:12Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, Adam, check him out. He's been on the podcast as well. And the description is, I'll just give you this very quickly. So Dena Dubal is a physician scientist and professor of neurology at UCSF, whose work focuses on mechanisms of longevity and brain resilience. In this episode, Dina dolfs, dolfs, okay, that's the bitter stock. And Dina delves into the intricacies.

• 1:01:31Speaker 02

  The Alzheimer's juice.

• 1:01:32Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, the longevity factor clot, though. Its formation and distribution in the body, the factors such as stress and exercise that impacts its level and its profound impact on cognitive function and overall brain health. I don't want to skip over the exercise.

• 1:01:46Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:01:47Tim Ferriss?

  Because while you're waiting for this to be available, is a subcutaneous or intramuscular shot, I think should be effective, subcutaneous.

• 1:01:55Speaker 02

  That's, by the way, that's the way they've gone to monkeys.

• 1:01:57Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, subcu, it's very easy. Very, very, very simple. It's like using Ozempic or is Ozempic subcu?

• 1:02:03Speaker 02

  It is, yeah.

• 1:02:04Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Very, very simple to do, not painful. Before that is available, exercise.

• 1:02:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:02:10Tim Ferriss?

  Exercise is arguably the most

• 1:02:13Speaker 02

  Turns out.

• 1:02:13Tim Ferriss?

  potent way to increase your circulating levels of clotum.

• 1:02:16Speaker 02

  Yes. So we're very excited for this. The potential application here is huge, obviously. This could be the Ozempic for the mind. We'll see, we'll know more in a bit. And once this gets funded, I'm excited to see where it goes. But I think this is what I love about just our ability, finally, at this stage in life, Tim, like you've done so much on the psychedelic research side, which has been amazing on the philanthropic side to watch happen. And like, you know, I started a new Substack, which is like a paid newsletter, working out a more private community. And 100% of the proceeds from the first month are going in to fund a Matt Walker sleep study, in which he's identified some antioxidants that he believes can repair a bad night's sleep.

• 1:02:58Tim Ferriss?

  And so. So Matt Walker, for those people who don't recognize the name, amazing, a super sweet guy, brilliant researcher.

• 1:03:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just have him on the podcast.

• 1:03:06Tim Ferriss?

  Who also wrote Why We Sleep.

• 1:03:07Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:03:08Tim Ferriss?

  Which was a mega, mega best seller.

• 1:03:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. And Matt's such a fantastic, like, well-rounded researcher in the world.

• 1:03:14Tim Ferriss?

  Beautiful voice, too.

• 1:03:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, he, his accent.

• 1:03:17Tim Ferriss?

  Dulcet, velvet, British tones.

• 1:03:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, soothing.

• 1:03:20Tim Ferriss?

  Exactly. He could read the. Cheesecake Factory menu.

• 1:03:23Speaker 02

  He should read your next book.

• 1:03:25Tim Ferriss?

  And I would, and I would listen to it.

• 1:03:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. So that's exciting. Like, I'm very excited to like, I think you and I both enjoy this idea of like moonshots around, you know, science.

• 1:03:34Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  Because it's like, it's severely underfunded. And if you do get grants.

• 1:03:39Tim Ferriss?

  You can do a lot with very little.

• 1:03:40Speaker 02

  A lot with very little. Yeah.

• 1:03:42Tim Ferriss?

  Because otherwise, this is part of why, on a lot of levels, I find it certainly as exciting as the startup investing.

• 1:03:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:50Tim Ferriss?

  Is you have these potentially sort of history bending scientific developments or discoveries that will take years and years and years to fund through traditional grant writing and government support. And if you are able to, I know this is not pocket change, but if you're able to cut a check quickly for, say, 25, 50 grand, the check I cut for Adam way back in the days, 10 grand, that was a big check for me, you can actually make a difference.

• 1:04:21Speaker 02

  Can I give you an example of this?

• 1:04:22Tim Ferriss?

  And you can accelerate it quickly. Yeah, please.

• 1:04:23Speaker 02

  So Dina, who's the principal investigator at UCSF around Clotho, I had a conversation with her and I said, hey, what's the study that you want to do right now on Clotho that would take you, you know, a year or so to get the grants and like blah, blah, blah. And she's like, I got this one that, you know, I want to, I want to kind of look downstream a little bit further and we can tag Clotho and see where it goes and all this stuff. And I'm like, what does that cost? And she's like, 50K. I was like, holy shit. I'm like, do you have the researchers ready to go? She's like, I could start this tomorrow. And so, you know, I donated some stock that were these little tiny distributions that I had received over time. And I just donated stock to UCSF. And now she has the funding and she already started the study, like a week and a half later. And it's like, I know that's a lot of money to a lot of people. So please, like, I'm not trying to flex here on the, on the cash

• 1:05:08Speaker 02

  side, but I'm just saying, like, even a thousand dollars.

• 1:05:11Tim Ferriss?

  Flexing so hard.

• 1:05:14Speaker 02

  Even, but even like, sometimes if you get to know these researchers or you hear about something on a Tia's podcast or your podcast where you're like, wow, that's great science being done, you can call them up, you can email them and say, hey, how can I contribute a hundred dollars here? And oftentimes, it can be tax deductible, depending on the organization and like.

• 1:05:31Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, almost always.

• 1:05:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:32Tim Ferriss?

  Almost always tax deductible.

• 1:05:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:33Tim Ferriss?

  And I will say, this doesn't have to be a super high concept, doing the greatest good for the greatest number of people motivation. It can be, but it is so exciting and gratifying.

• 1:05:50Tim Ferriss?

  To catalyze science that could, I think, without making it sound too exaggerated, I mean, change the world, literally, in the case of, say, a clot.

• 1:06:00Speaker 02

  Oh, dude.

• 1:06:01Tim Ferriss?

  And the fact that you can expedite it for relatively, you know, the, the, the cost of a car.

• 1:06:08Speaker 02

  Dude.

• 1:06:08Tim Ferriss?

  Is nuts.

• 1:06:09Speaker 02

  So my mom now, sometimes, sadly, thinks my sister is her mom. And she has dementia and it's not, thankfully, it's not Alzheimer's. So we've, we've, we've been with this for about seven years now. And, you know, we're going to put this in humans in a year and a half. My mom's turning 84 in a few weeks. And it's like, I don't know, there's a chance we get this in her in a couple of years and we get some more great memories back. We get a little bit more of like, even not even the, I can't guarantee what's going to happen, but even just like a little bit more awareness would be beautiful, you know? Beautiful. So it's like, this is what, what motivates me more than anything.

• 1:06:48Tim Ferriss?

  And we're at an age also where it's like, almost every friend in our same cohort is having this experience.

• 1:06:54Speaker 02

  Oh, 100%.

• 1:06:55Tim Ferriss?

  At least one parent, usually both.

• 1:06:56Speaker 02

  I'm sure every, there's a, probably a thousand people listening right now.

• 1:06:59Tim Ferriss?

  Starting to fray at the ends.

• 1:07:01Speaker 02

  100%.

• 1:07:01Tim Ferriss?

  And it's so painful to watch. I remember watching my grandparents kind of descend to the point.

• 1:07:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:08Tim Ferriss?

  Where they didn't necessarily recognize me or my brother or anything like that. And if you could just add a few years, right? Or cut down on the symptoms by 20%.

• 1:07:21Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 1:07:22Tim Ferriss?

  It's so significant.

• 1:07:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:24Tim Ferriss?

  For not just their quality of life, hopefully, but also the interpersonal relationships.

• 1:07:30Speaker 02

  Yes. The relationships is the big thing. When people go, they go, but just to have that like awareness of who is around you when you do go, I think is just like, it's such a huge deal. What else you got? I got some crazy ones. I got more crazy ones, but. Bring some crazy. So I talked to my dead dad via a medium. Okay, all right. Didn't see that coming. Yeah, it was on our list of stories to talk about. All right, yeah, tell me. So my tattoo artist was out here and giving me this fantastic tattoo. Jess is awesome. And she was like, hey, there's this crazy shit that happened to me. And I'm like, what's up? And she's like, I tattooed this woman that was a medium and she gifted me a free session.

• 1:08:10Speaker 02

  And I'm like, was it crazy? And she's like, you have no idea. She's like, okay, a bunch of people. So cute that the toasters kind of say hi to you. Keep coming to say hi to me. So, you know, I'm the biggest skeptic on this shit. Like, I take this as like entertainment value, right? Yeah. And so she was like, no, you don't understand. Someone, I don't want to get into her personal details, but someone that was not directly related to her, but one step removed, like of her immediate family, had been shot and killed. Oh. And this person came in and said, listen, I had been, and this is not Google-able, you couldn't have found this anywhere, was like, I am the person that was shot in this particular location at this particular spot, like crazy scary, like really accurate.

• 1:08:55Speaker 02

  And I was like, oh my God. Like, and she kept going and I'm not going to go into her personal details, but like enough to where I was like, give me the number. Like, you know, I want to like book this $150 session, right? It's 100, 150. And so I book it and it's early because she's like back east. And so I'm like, I get up at 7:00 AM, like barely had my coffee. And there's like, she goes, oh my God. She goes, there is this person that is like beating down my door to talk to you. And I'm like, okay. And she's like. Wait, this is what the medium said? Medium said, yeah, we were on Zoom. All right. And I'm like, okay, like, and you. He's got a, he's got a startup in. And please. Dog cosmetics. Yeah, exactly.

• 1:09:33Speaker 02

  They want to pitch you like it's a great pre-money valuation. They only want a million dollars like if the dog cosmetics are it's gonna boom. Watch is so it's the next AI. So basically I was like, you know, I'm kind of like early, whatever. And I'm like, okay, I'm very Googleable, you know, like I'm aware of that. Right. And like, you can find out things about my dad and stuff like that. And she's like, it's a man. He passed from some heart tension in my dad, but I have a heart stroke. I'm like, okay, well, you can Google that, you know? And then she's like describing all kinds of stuff and even including like a fight with my mom the night before. Little tiny bits. So my sister did it too.

• 1:10:17Speaker 02

  And we didn't tell them we were related because my sister has a different last name.

• 1:10:19Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, nice.

• 1:10:20Speaker 02

  And so with my sister, it was like, oh, he's good with numbers. He was an accountant and he was just like saying that he kept saying the number three is there. And she's like, is there a third sibling? And I've never told anybody this, but I have a half sister that I didn't know about. That's never been on the internet.

• 1:10:36Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:36Speaker 02

  And I was like, I started sobbing immediately because like I get that it's entertainment value. But just to feel and what she said, she goes, he's very proud of you. And that just hit me like, you know, it's like, I don't care if it's real or not. Yeah. Just to hear that. And even if 2% of your body can say that might be real.

• 1:10:56Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:57Speaker 02

  You immediately break down. And so like snots coming out of my nose and shit over zoom. And like, there's no filter to turn that off. And like, it's just like, it was, it was just very therapeutic, you know? And I was just like, holy shit. And then amount of shit that she got right was scary.

• 1:11:13Tim Ferriss?

  Did she whiff on anything?

• 1:11:15Speaker 02

  Trying to think. Oof, gosh, you know, it's funny is like, once you start believing it and once you're like halfway in, you don't want to ask any like questions that might get them to whiff.

• 1:11:23Tim Ferriss?

  Disconfirm.

• 1:11:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. And so, but, but I gotta say, like, there was a bunch of stuff where she was like, your girls and one of them looks a lot like your dad and has that same kind of energy. And he likes to like, watch them play because he thinks it's really cute. How one of them is like this and like was predicting their personalities like to the T. Like, like absolutely perfect. And so then I have Daria do it, my wife, and her mom comes to her. And scary accurate again, everyone's gonna be asking for this URL. I swear, I'm not trying to like plug any. Medium here and like sell sell medium things, but it was insane.

• 1:12:02Tim Ferriss?

  Dogcosmetics.com slash Kevco.

• 1:12:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Get the coupon code. Do you have anybody that's passed away that you'd want to talk to?

• 1:12:09Tim Ferriss?

  Sure. Yeah. I mean, if I could, right? I mean, I'm very, I mean, I've gone out to the edges pretty hard in my sort of subjective experience or a lot of experiments, but I would say I've also watched, for instance, there's a documentary about the amazing Randy called An Honest Liar, and I've watched documentaries on mentalists. And you watch, say, performers like Darren Brown, who are.

• 1:12:34Speaker 02

  Like how they can read and like lean in.

• 1:12:36Tim Ferriss?

  I mean, the stuff they can do is is just like beyond, I shouldn't say it's beyond explanation, but it's very hard to explain. They're very convincing, right? So I'm, I'm very skeptical, but if I could somehow assure myself that I had shielded them from the potential of Googling things and figuring things out.

• 1:12:56Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 1:12:57Tim Ferriss?

  If I could come in blind, like maybe the appointment's made someone else's name, and then I show up.

• 1:13:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, Tim Ferriss.

• 1:13:02Tim Ferriss?

  And then I'm like, okay, here I am. Tell me. I mean, certainly I'm, I'm game to try.

• 1:13:06Speaker 02

  I'll, I'll pay for your session. I want you to see, see if this like, if this, if this holds up for, for anybody else.

• 1:13:11Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I'll try it. Like, I mean, my feeling is, and this is maybe people are gonna be like, wow, Tim Ferriss is wearing a tinfoil hat and we've lost him. He's out at sea. Especially after my sort of like memetic contagion comment earlier, but there are a lot of, I think it's very, it's impossible to dispute that there's a lot we don't understand.

• 1:13:31Speaker 02

  Yes, 100%.

• 1:13:32Tim Ferriss?

  That does not mean that these things are unexplainable. It's not invoking necessarily the supernatural per se. But there's a lot of weird shit that we can't currently explain. And so in the meantime, if we're waiting for a scientific agreement or consensus or breakthrough that it's accepted. I'm happy to experiment, right? As long as, as long as you have some preparation and safeguards in advance so that you're not a mark for fooling yourself really easily.

• 1:14:04Speaker 02

  Here's the funny thing, is she never, so out of myself, Darian, my sister, she never asked for a rebook appointment. In fact, my sister, she had a bunch of people that came to her that she didn't recognize and she got to my dad like a little bit later and she's like, listen, I'm so sorry, this never happens, I want to get, I want to give you a free session for free, come back next time. Like, it was very weird and there was none of that like salesy shit, you know? I'm always on the lookout for that kind of stuff. Anyway, we'll have to do it.

• 1:14:29Tim Ferriss?

  Sorry, our time's up, like cliffhanger.

• 1:14:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly, exactly. Oh, I found your dad.

• 1:14:33Tim Ferriss?

  He gave me, he gave me five of the winning lottery ticket numbers. Oh, sorry, we're out of time.

• 1:14:39Speaker 02

  But I just, you know, it was one of these random things that you just walk into in life and you say yes to and it was like weirdly awesome.

• 1:14:45Tim Ferriss?

  I mean, look, I'll give you, this is like two drinks, definitely informing what I'm about to say, but in my experience, so I get, say, soft tissue treatment once a week, right? I get like massage treatment.

• 1:14:56Speaker 02

  What was that? I said handy.

• 1:14:59Tim Ferriss?

  No.

• 1:14:59Speaker 02

  What does that mean?

• 1:14:59Tim Ferriss?

  No dragon rolls, no happy endings. I'm saying just massage treatment, like I have people who work on me because I've broken my body so many times. And there are certain people who have bizarre abilities that they cannot explain, like they are just good at.

• 1:15:16Speaker 02

  Like the Reiki people?

• 1:15:17Tim Ferriss?

  Doesn't necessarily even have to be that far afield from manual therapy. There are just some people who have very seemingly strange abilities and they have incredible track records and when they try to teach other people their method, it does not translate. Their disciples are unable to do what they do. And I don't know how to explain that, but like there seems to be an extreme variance, right, between outcomes.

• 1:15:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:15:47Tim Ferriss?

  And there are some people who are very purely secular, they have their technique, they can explain it and they're effectively, you know, architects and carpenters of the human body and they're able to do some miraculous, I shouldn't say miraculous, but like predictably effective things based on their understanding of the human body. Then there are people who just seem to operate on a different channel and I don't know what to make of that. And any, I would say, any.

• 1:16:14Tim Ferriss?

  Athlete like who has competed for a long time or had a lot of manual therapy will have a story about someone like this.

• 1:16:21Speaker 02

  Why do you say athlete?

• 1:16:23Tim Ferriss?

  Well, just because they're

• 1:16:23Speaker 02

  Like flow state stuff?

• 1:16:24Tim Ferriss?

  No, because they're going to injure themselves or have more, they're just gonna have more table time.

• 1:16:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:30Tim Ferriss?

  Than than an average person, right? You talk to the average person on the street, I mean, by and large, like, when do you have your last massage? Like, never, five years ago, two years ago? Whereas if somebody is a very serious athlete, they're probably getting some type of manual therapy.

• 1:16:43Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:16:44Tim Ferriss?

  Once every, I mean, at least once a month, if not, once a week. If they're like an Olympic sprinter or something, they're probably getting it every day or every other day, something like that.

• 1:16:52Speaker 02

  Can I ask you a question that you may want to cut from the podcast?

• 1:16:57Speaker 02

  You told me once that during one of your ayahuasca sessions, that it was either someone had spoken in a different tongue that they didn't know, or there was something crazy. What is the craziest, Tim Ferriss supernatural thing that you've ever seen in your life?

• 1:17:12Tim Ferriss?

  So I, it's a good question. I'm going to pull out the supernatural, just because.

• 1:17:17Speaker 02

  Okay, natural.

• 1:17:21Tim Ferriss?

  Hyper natural. Simply because I don't think these things are beyond explanation. We just lack perhaps the tools or the

• 1:17:30Speaker 02

  To measure them?

• 1:17:30Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, we just, we can't currently investigate any of these phenomena in a granular enough way to make it gratifying.

• 1:17:38Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:17:40Tim Ferriss?

  Uh, yeah, I, okay, so.

• 1:17:42Speaker 02

  Give me a couple of good ones.

• 1:17:43Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I'll give you some good ones. I mean, so I have a decent amount of, uh, flight time, I guess we can call it. I have seen on a few, now, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna, I'm going to describe what I saw.

• 1:17:54Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:17:55Tim Ferriss?

  And then I'm going to debunk it.

• 1:17:56Speaker 02

  And I know you don't lie, which is what's awesome. Like, I've known you long enough to know that you're a very, very trustworthy, like, legit person. You don't embellish, which I think is great.

• 1:18:04Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I try not to. And I also try to cross-examine, right?

• 1:18:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're very skeptical, dude.

• 1:18:09Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:10Speaker 02

  Which I love, it's great.

• 1:18:11Tim Ferriss?

  So I've seen a few people, this is first person. Speakers saying in languages that they do not speak.

• 1:18:18Speaker 02

  Like in tongue shit where you're like, I can't understand you.

• 1:18:21Tim Ferriss?

  No, you can, no, no, no, they, they, you can hear them like coherently.

• 1:18:25Speaker 02

  And you speak a lot of languages.

• 1:18:27Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I do.

• 1:18:27Speaker 02

  So were they ever speaking a language that you understood where you're like, no, what language?

• 1:18:32Tim Ferriss?

  Spanish.

• 1:18:33Speaker 02

  Well, that's easy, Juan. They could have watched enough like.

• 1:18:35Tim Ferriss?

  No, no, no, no, no. These are people without any exposure or.

• 1:18:39Speaker 02

  They didn't watch Dora the Explorer or anything as kids like.

• 1:18:42Tim Ferriss?

  Or, look, I'm not fluent in these languages, but like the people are like from the people, people or.

• 1:18:48Speaker 02

  And these were like.

• 1:18:49Tim Ferriss?

  Like Kichu Alamista, like.

• 1:18:50Speaker 02

  Like white people coming in like, really? Like you didn't have any.

• 1:18:52Tim Ferriss?

  They're coming in blind. They, they couldn't even tell you the names of these tribes.

• 1:18:55Speaker 02

  Fuck. Like, how many, how many words? Like one or two words or like.

• 1:18:59Tim Ferriss?

  No, we're talking like an hour.

• 1:19:00Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:19:01Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:01Speaker 02

  And you've seen this firsthand?

• 1:19:03Tim Ferriss?

  Yes. And I also have what I would consider credible witnesses, people who are hyper competent in their own lives. They have very effective careers, et cetera, et cetera. These are not people who are just like naval gazing.

• 1:19:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:20Tim Ferriss?

  Folks who do like personal development seminars every two days and don't have a job. These are real operators who have seen in one instance, you know, this woman who ended up speaking what sounded like in tongues. But there was an academic there who later was like, oh, that was, it was something like ancient

• 1:19:42Tim Ferriss?

  language. It was something that he could identify and he's like, oh yeah, it's a dead language. He's like, but I've studied enough of it. He's like, that's what she was, she was, she was chanting in. No. So if I were to take the debunk side of this, I would say, well, everyone's tripping balls. So like, let's be honest, right?

• 1:19:59Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:19:59Tim Ferriss?

  Everybody could just be making up the like never ending story fantasy that they wanna to be true. Because they're trying to recapture some mystery in a world that seems just like profane and disgusting.

• 1:20:12Speaker 02

  And this is all ayahuasca.

• 1:20:14Tim Ferriss?

  Those examples are all ayahuasca, but it's not, it's not limited to that. It seems to be particularly prevalent, like reports, let me be clear, not occurrences, but reports of these types of events or phenomena are most widely reported, it seems, in cases of ayahuasca. But the format, I think, matters in the sense that it may not be limited to ayahuasca, which is a brew. It's a combination of different plants. So Benastereopsis copii in the case of the vine, and then Secochea varides, if they're using chacunna, also another name for the same thing. So it's a bit of a cocktail, right? You can think of it as an old fashioned, like, there are a lot of ways to put a spin on an old fashioned. Yeah. Depending on the brew, it's gonna be very, very different.

• 1:20:59Tim Ferriss?

  I had one the other day with cognac, and it was so good. So I can tell you what is not delicious is ayahuasca. But the point I was gonna make is that I think the reports in part are more frequent with ayahuasca than, say, psilocybin, or psilocybe mushrooms, let's say, or LSD. Because ayahuasca is almost by default, at least in the syncretic, kind of mestizo neo-shamanic formats that you see, say, in North America, and at a lot of the ayahuasca tourism places, it's inevitably in a group context, right? And so when you have a group together, the dynamic, the potential for storytelling,

• 1:21:41Tim Ferriss?

  the volume of things that you will observe from other people is just higher than if you're laying on a map by yourself doing mushrooms. So I think since that shared experience is such an intrinsic part of most ayahuasca circles, as North, sort of North Americans experience it, that it's almost inevitable that you're gonna get more reports of these types of things. Yeah. Yeah. And who knows? Maybe people are just hearing and seeing what they want to see. They are ultimately considered hallucinogens, although I do think there's more to the story. That's crazy. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and I, yeah, I will say, like, when you're listening to anyone talk about fucking crazy town, which is what we're talking about right now, and this is not to say that I'm

• 1:22:26Tim Ferriss?

  the, the ultimate impeccable objective witness of reality, but...

• 1:22:31Tim Ferriss?

  You just have to ask yourself, like, has this person demonstrated the ability to reason and logic their way through other complicated problems? Right? Because if they haven't demonstrated that, and they believe in the fucking tooth fairy, and

• 1:22:48Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 1:22:48Tim Ferriss?

  spirits and ayahuasca, then you really, you don't have a basis for judging their judgment.

• 1:22:54Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:22:54Tim Ferriss?

  But if someone comes in and they are demonstrably world-class in a bunch of domains, a real operator, very skeptical, and nonetheless, they have these experiences, and they're just like, what the fuck?

• 1:23:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:09Tim Ferriss?

  Was that?

• 1:23:09Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:23:10Tim Ferriss?

  Then it's more interesting.

• 1:23:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I had a jet Navy fighter pilot named Ryan Graves on my podcast.

• 1:23:17Tim Ferriss?

  Ryan Graves?

• 1:23:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, like the Uber Ryan Graves, but fighter pilot.

• 1:23:21Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:23:22Speaker 02

  And he's the one that came out and said, I saw some crazy alien ships in the sky.

• 1:23:27Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:28Speaker 02

  And we talked an hour and a half for what it's like, and when the training that he does, and the sensors that they have in these jets.

• 1:23:33Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:34Speaker 02

  And you're like, there is nothing, like, this guy's the most credible dude on earth. Like, he's a retired Navy fighter pilot, but like, you know, was, there was no, like, he wasn't like, kick, oh, we got.

• 1:23:46Tim Ferriss?

  Here we go. Oh, my god.

• 1:23:48Speaker 02

  We did the corner bit.

• 1:23:49Tim Ferriss?

  Here we go.

• 1:23:50Speaker 02

  What is this?

• 1:23:50Speaker 03

  So this is, um.

• 1:23:52Tim Ferriss?

  I sent some egg whites?

• 1:23:53Speaker 03

  So unfortunately, yeah, egg whites, I got you.

• 1:23:56Tim Ferriss?

  Thank you.

• 1:23:56Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:23:57Speaker 03

  It's apricot lecour again, apologize.

• 1:23:59Tim Ferriss?

  Ooh, I like this little, this, this little clothespin, very nice. Oh, Kevin!

• 1:24:04Speaker 02

  Sorry, sorry, please, please, please.

• 1:24:05Tim Ferriss?

  Must be some, some decorum.

• 1:24:07Speaker 03

  Sorry. Lemon juice, bitters, and then your world famous tequila there.

• 1:24:14Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:24:14Speaker 02

  Oh, nice, that's not.

• 1:24:15Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah, the lala.

• 1:24:16Speaker 02

  My water.

• 1:24:17Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Egg whites.

• 1:24:19Speaker 02

  Egg whites, okay.

• 1:24:20Tim Ferriss?

  It's healthy, man, it's basically a protein shake.

• 1:24:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:24:23Tim Ferriss?

  So to what, Kevin?

• 1:24:24Speaker 02

  Uh, to, uh, experimentation.

• 1:24:27Tim Ferriss?

  To experimentation.

• 1:24:32Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, that's outstanding.

• 1:24:33Speaker 02

  That's probably the best one yet.

• 1:24:34Tim Ferriss?

  Outstanding. I'm gonna be laying on.

• 1:24:36Speaker 02

  You get on a flight, you're fine. All right, so what do you have? Do you have anything else? Or do you want me to go on? I got like one or two more if you want to.

• 1:24:44Tim Ferriss?

  Mind you, fire away. I mean, basically, here, there are a few things that I can recommend, just in case.

• 1:24:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, a couple of recommendations.

• 1:24:50Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I'll make it fast. So just in case people are looking for a couple of recommendations for things that, over the last few months, I have found really compelling in viewing or reading. A few things. So one is Jerry Seinfeld's Duke commencement speech.

• 1:25:06Speaker 02

  Oh, yes.

• 1:25:07Tim Ferriss?

  Amazing.

• 1:25:07Speaker 02

  Amazing.

• 1:25:08Tim Ferriss?

  Amazing.

• 1:25:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:09Tim Ferriss?

  Just trust me, check it out.

• 1:25:11Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:25:12Tim Ferriss?

  Then there's a very old documentary that I watched again, David Hockney, The Art of Seeing. And David Hockney is incredibly well-known artist, perhaps Britain's best-loved living artist.

• 1:25:26Speaker 02

  Art of Seeing, okay.

• 1:25:27Tim Ferriss?

  And The Art of Seeing really dives into, through interviews, his way of viewing the world, art and life. It's tremendous. And you can find it on YouTube. You might be able to find it elsewhere, but it's actually surprisingly hard to find. In terms of books, after many, many people recommended it, and I had a hell of a time getting into it, it took 20 or 30 pages. So just suffer through the first 20 or 30 pages. It is one of the most beautifully written books I've ever read, also probably the most brutal book. It is just brutal, brutal, brutal.

• 1:25:59Speaker 02

  Brutal in what way, like?

• 1:26:00Tim Ferriss?

  Okay, so it's called Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy.

• 1:26:03Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:26:04Tim Ferriss?

  And it's selected. Yeah, you can get it on Audible. I listened to it. It was actually great narration.

• 1:26:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:26:09Tim Ferriss?

  Selected by The Atlantic as one of the great American novels of the past 100 years.

• 1:26:13Speaker 02

  Oh, shit.

• 1:26:14Tim Ferriss?

  Here's an endorsement, one of the quotes from Michael Herr, I think that's how you say it, H-E-R-R. Quote, "A classic American novel of regeneration through violence. McCarthy can only be compared to our greatest writers like Melville, et cetera, et cetera, and this is his masterpiece."

• 1:26:27Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:26:27Tim Ferriss?

  So it's brutal in the sense that it is set in the Wild West, but the Hobbesian behavior of humans and just like evil acts of brutality are.

• 1:26:42Tim Ferriss?

  Are just beyond.

• 1:26:43Speaker 02

  Is this gonna be like a Quentin Tarantino film in like 10 years kind of thing or five years?

• 1:26:47Tim Ferriss?

  It would be hard to make an adaptation. I think it'd be hard to sell because people would just come out of the movie theaters being like, what the fuck did I just do to myself? But the prose, the prose is so gorgeous. I mean, this is one of those books.

• 1:27:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:00Tim Ferriss?

  That I listened to and I was like, I should just fucking hang up my spurs and be done with writing.

• 1:27:04Speaker 02

  Oh shit.

• 1:27:05Tim Ferriss?

  This writing is so good.

• 1:27:06Speaker 02

  Oh fuck.

• 1:27:07Tim Ferriss?

  This writing is so good. Maybe this guy's an alien. Like he's, it doesn't seem conceivable to me that a human could produce this. It's so good. Now, I will warn you, if you listen to the audiobook, in the beginning of chapters, they have these ran, they're not quite random, but they're foreshadowing snippets of different phrases and it's confusing as fuck on the audiobook.

• 1:27:27Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:27:27Tim Ferriss?

  So when he's like, marshmallow tobacco, a man finds a dog, hat in the wind, you know, what the fuck is happening?

• 1:27:35Speaker 02

  The perfect Quentin Tarantino like little like slide that they put up on the screen.

• 1:27:39Tim Ferriss?

  They always put, yeah, exactly. So that's at the beginning of every chapter, but it's outstanding. If you want something that is shorter and also metaphorically quite beautiful, The Bear by Andrew Kryvak, I think if I'm saying his name correctly, is a beautiful story of a girl and her father who lived close to the land in the shadow of a lone mountain. The father teaches the girl how to fish and hunt, the secrets of the seasons and the stars. He's preparing her for an adulthood in harmony with nature for they are the last of humankind. I'll just stop there. It's beautiful. I finished it in a handful of days. It's very short. That's a very special book, really, really fast.

• 1:28:17Speaker 02

  If you're doing documentaries, I want to throw one out there.

• 1:28:19Tim Ferriss?

  Do it.

• 1:28:19Speaker 02

  You've probably seen this and I just watched it again for the second time. It's called The Birth of Sake.

• 1:28:23Tim Ferriss?

  Never seen it.

• 1:28:24Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:28:25Tim Ferriss?

  No.

• 1:28:25Speaker 02

  Oh dude, this is a beautiful story.

• 1:28:27Tim Ferriss?

  We tasted a lot of sake in Japan.

• 1:28:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, we went to actually like one of the breweries and took it right out of the spigot. It was amazing.

• 1:28:34Tim Ferriss?

  So good.

• 1:28:34Speaker 02

  So The Birth of Sake is about a like traditional handmade, like there's only like a thousand of them left. Like there used to be like 4,000 like a decade ago and now it's down to 1,000 handmade.

• 1:28:45Tim Ferriss?

  Sounds like Japan.

• 1:28:46Speaker 02

  And well, they're like machines and automation and all that are like taking over and this is a. About, I didn't know if you knew this, but like if you're actually making sake, you have to tend to it for about six months around the clock. And so they get together in these like little tiny micro homes where they live, they lead their families. And they just work on sake for six months. And so this covers like old men, young men coming in. Like tradition, the handing off of reins to one generation to another, you know, somebody dying, like the whole thing. And it's beautiful. And it's this little tiny brewery called Yoshida Brewery. And so there's a, there's a great store in San Francisco. I'm sure you probably remember it called True Sake. Remember over in Page, over in, I'm sorry, in.

• 1:29:29Tim Ferriss?

  Hayes Valley?

• 1:29:30Speaker 02

  Hayes Valley, yeah.

• 1:29:30Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:31Speaker 02

  So they actually.

• 1:29:32Tim Ferriss?

  Bought a sake there called Hitorimusume, which means single daughter, which to this day I've been trying to find. So good.

• 1:29:38Speaker 02

  So they, they actually sell this. I found this sake. I have it upstairs. We can take a sip of it. I bought it, but it's not much. It's like, it's like $50 a bottle.

• 1:29:45Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:29:45Speaker 02

  But it's this little tiny family. The story is beautiful. It's all 4K. There's like snow falling and like slow motion. Highly recommend watching that documentary, The Birth of Sake. That's, that's my.

• 1:29:55Tim Ferriss?

  Amazing. What else you got?

• 1:29:57Speaker 02

  I got a short one.

• 1:29:58Tim Ferriss?

  Okay, go. All right. So this is a video that was sent to me by my friend, Mike. You gotta watch this. You gotta watch this. It's called.

• 1:30:05Speaker 02

  Is this some of the stuff we send each other normally?

• 1:30:07Tim Ferriss?

  No, no, not that horrific mutually assured destruction known as our group chat. No, no, no, no, no. It's called Hyren, Arian, Byren, who's a musician, storyteller, lyricist. It's fucking incredible. You've never seen anything like it. And it's a combination of talent, craziness slash lunacy, philosophy, redemption and relief. The lyrics are so good. It's a one man performance.

• 1:30:35Speaker 02

  All right.

• 1:30:36Tim Ferriss?

  Where he's playing guitar. He looks like a mental patient, like he's in an inpatient out, like outfit, gets wheeled in. And it's just him and a guitar and he goes back and forth playing like the light and dark sides of himself, having a conversation.

• 1:30:50Speaker 02

  Oh shit.

• 1:30:50Tim Ferriss?

  It is so-

• 1:30:51Speaker 02

  Should we watch it now or no?

• 1:30:52Tim Ferriss?

  Good. It's probably too long to watch it now. You should watch it. It will blow your mind.

• 1:30:59Speaker 02

  Alright, we'll link it up. This is some good- I love when we throw out the random links that are just like really good.

• 1:31:04Tim Ferriss?

  This one, seriously, I was like, "Oh, I'm not the only one who's fucking crazy." "Oh, that's great."

• 1:31:09Speaker 02

  Oh, that's great, yeah.

• 1:31:11Tim Ferriss?

  Fantastic.

• 1:31:11Speaker 02

  I love that.

• 1:31:12Tim Ferriss?

  "We're all fucking crazy. Oh, gosh, what a relief." Uh, so that's, that's definitely, that's definitely one that came to mind.

• 1:31:18Speaker 02

  Alright, I've got my last story of the day and then maybe you have one to add on top of this. So I'm taking a lot of risk here.

• 1:31:24Tim Ferriss?

  Oh.

• 1:31:25Speaker 02

  In that, um-

• 1:31:26Tim Ferriss?

  Tentatilizing.

• 1:31:26Speaker 02

  Speaking about podcasts that, uh, we don't want to do what everybody else is doing, you know? Um, one of the things that was a, a, a complete tragedy that we can all agree upon is that Matthew Perry's, uh, passing away from ketamine overdose or, or, or coming unconscious and then drowning in, in, in the pool.

• 1:31:42Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:43Speaker 02

  Lot of data came out recently. Did you see that?

• 1:31:45Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I did.

• 1:31:45Speaker 02

  The story? It was like really horrible. Like these doctors were conspiring to like give him as much as he wanted and like injecting him with what would be considered to be-

• 1:31:52Tim Ferriss?

  Like a general anesthesia dose.

• 1:31:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Enough to put you out, right? And like, obviously you don't want to fall asleep-

• 1:31:57Tim Ferriss?

  Doesn't mix with water.

• 1:31:57Speaker 02

  In the hot tub, right?

• 1:31:58Tim Ferriss?

  Doesn't, doesn't mix with water.

• 1:32:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, the thing that bummed me out about that is that, uh, you know, we talked about this before about my treatment like six months ago and I feel fantastic after that treatment. But the thing that bummed me out is that-

• 1:32:10Tim Ferriss?

  Meaning intravenous? Was it intravenous or intramuscular?

• 1:32:12Speaker 02

  Uh, intravenous, yeah.

• 1:32:13Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's an IV ketamine treatment.

• 1:32:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I, I did it, you know, I did the, the six sessions and I was going through a really hard startup and like I feel as, as good as ever, which is great. Since then, when we did that podcast, I've had, and I can't say on, on, on camera, but I've had a household name that has built a business that is bigger than you and I have ever built, that would be a shock to the world, that hit me up and was like, "I did this and it changed my life." And they've since paid for a bunch of people to do it after them that were really suffering. That person in particular was having some depression, things of that nature. That was treatment-resistant depression was what they call it. A colleague of mine hit me up and was like, "I have suicidal thoughts. I'm not gonna kill myself, but I hate that I have them every day."

• 1:32:58Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:58Speaker 02

  You know? And-

• 1:33:00Tim Ferriss?

  Also a scary message to get.

• 1:33:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, but she went and did five treatments and is now in full remission. And I was like, this is amazing. And it kills me that, I mean, obviously, there are insane dangers around recreational use. I'm not disputing that at all. And it's being used in clubs, it's being used all over the place as a dissociated. And like, I get that it's really bad. But I wanted to go out and say, if I'm going to do a different podcast on this, I want to have in an expert, which I brought my doctor in. Her name is Dr. Jen. She's Princeton trained doctor.

• 1:33:34Tim Ferriss?

  Not a chiropractor?

• 1:33:35Speaker 02

  Not a chiropractor.

• 1:33:36Tim Ferriss?

  No offense to chiropractors, but they tend to do the Dr. Bob, Dr. Jack, Dr. Jen thing.

• 1:33:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, you don't want to, you don't want a chiropractor doing this. But she's been an ER room doctor for like 15 years.

• 1:33:45Tim Ferriss?

  Now I feel like a dick. I must say, like, there's some great chiropractors out there who I work with. But, but you don't want them running your ketamine.

• 1:33:51Speaker 02

  Right, exactly. And she gets into that. And she understands, she's like, this is why, like, we need to take this seriously, right? So we did the whole podcast, and we take it from a very scientific point of view, talking about the neuroplasticity, talking about her outcomes that she's witnessed, blah, blah. But the crazy thing that I added on to this, and this is coming out in like a week or so, is that I actually said, okay, I will go in to demystify this. And I went into the clinic, and I did inter muscular, which is just a shot in the arm.

• 1:34:19Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, so it runs rocket ship.

• 1:34:21Speaker 02

  I tried to stay as conscious as I could and explain the feelings as I was starting to go into La La Land. Now, let me tell you why.

• 1:34:29Tim Ferriss?

  Did you, are you going to share marble mouth moments?

• 1:34:32Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, 100%. There's all that, there's all that in there. So, but, but.

• 1:34:37Tim Ferriss?

  It is, it is an anesthetic. Doesn't generally help you.

• 1:34:40Speaker 02

  No, I had to stop and restart the same sentence like five times. But I will, I will tell you, the reason why I did this is very simply because of my friend that was suffering from severe depression, that she knew me personally. And she's like, I saw you do this, and I saw it have a positive benefit. And I went to, I am not recommending anyone to do this. But there is a subset of people out there that are suffering, that are seriously contemplating horrible things. And I just want them to check it out and also see what a high quality clinic looks like.

• 1:35:10Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:10Speaker 02

  Like, don't go to the chiropractor. Just look inside of.

• 1:35:13Tim Ferriss?

  So sorry, I said that.

• 1:35:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, but it's true, though. Like, let's not say chiropractor. But people that have access to this compound, don't go to them like you should have a real legitimate doctor. There should be a real legitimate intake. There should be blood pressure cuffs. There should be heart rate monitors. There should be all the real things that come with legitimate practice. And so I wanted to demystify it a bit. It's going to be controversial. It's coming out soon. But you know, I think I'm on the right side of history here. I think that like this will help a lot of people. It's not for everyone, but if you're really, really suffering and you tried everything else, all the exercise, all the antidepressants, and you still want to do harm.

• 1:35:49Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:50Speaker 02

  Maybe, maybe consider.

• 1:35:51Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, for suicidal ideation, I mean, there are many resources that we could recommend. I mean, we're not doctors, we're not doctors, we're not medical doctors. Yeah, I almost off myself in college. So I mean, if you, if you search some practical thoughts on suicide in my name, there will be a long post that will walk you through my history with this. But if someone's contemplating self harm, serious self harm, then I do think of all the interventions I have seen in clinic, that's the operative term, ketamine sessions, whether IV or intramuscular, are very interesting. They effectively hit stop or pause on the thought loops

• 1:36:35Tim Ferriss?

  so that you can have a moment of respite to really examine what is happening and going on and take a short break from your pain and in the form of these thought loops that are incessant. And that is also the reason why, in my opinion, you should not use ketamine outside of clinic.

• 1:36:54Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 1:36:55Tim Ferriss?

  It is too seductive. It is very easy to become addicted. If you have any history of using alcohol to take the edge off, ketamine is like alcohol times a hundred in terms of its effectiveness to taking that edge off. And therein lies the danger.

• 1:37:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:37:12Tim Ferriss?

  Because there are severe consequences to becoming really addicted to ketamine.

• 1:37:16Speaker 02

  I will say this that was really interesting. I talked to Dr. Jen, who's done hundreds of patients now, right? And, and she goes, and I said to her on the podcast, and her defense is very interesting. I said, You know, for me, like, I don't see how anyone could be addicted to this because like, it's like a journey you go on, you know? And by the time I'm done with the journey, I'm like, oh, my God, thank God I get like, you know, a few days off because you do it twice a week for three weeks. But she goes, no, no, no, Kevin, I just want to let you know, there are some people that when they feel that, they feel high from that.

• 1:37:44Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:44Speaker 02

  And I'm not one of those people, thank God. But like, she's like, therein lies the danger. And I'm like, thank you for correcting me there. Like, that's a real legitimate person that is like trying to set the record straight because some people can get that alcohol times a thousand and get addicted. And then they go finding street sources and all that stuff. But like, it's a really crazy compound because in some settings, it can be a savior and a reboot that people need and an outside perspective to look at themselves, disassociated a bit, to laugh and like,

• 1:38:15Tim Ferriss?

  To look, to take an observer's status on their own stories.

• 1:38:19Speaker 02

  I talk about that, actually, when they filmed me coming out of it, they go, they go, what did you feel? And I go, Kevin was over here. I took an observer's status of that. And I was able to say, he's been crazy and he's his own worst enemy.

• 1:38:33Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:33Speaker 02

  You know? And so it's like, it's very challenging because in some sense, like, this is a very dangerous compound, but I don't think we need to like, just throw it away.

• 1:38:43Tim Ferriss?

  No, we don't need to demonize it. It, I think it's a very powerful tool. And the risk is self-administration.

• 1:38:53Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:38:54Tim Ferriss?

  Right?

• 1:38:54Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 1:38:55Tim Ferriss?

  And I will say, I've seen some of the most impressive, amazing, soulful, high-functioning people completely derail their lives using ketamine and other compounds. And you just have to be very, very cautious because my, my belief is, and I think this is a, even if it's inaccurate, I think it's a constructive, positive belief to hold, which is everyone has a molecule that will make them addictive. Everyone.

• 1:39:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:39:24Tim Ferriss?

  You just don't know exactly which key is going to fit the lock.

• 1:39:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:39:29Tim Ferriss?

  But. Everyone has the potential to be addicted. And it's just the right molecule. So for me, I'm like, let's safeguard against that. Oh, my God.

• 1:39:40Speaker 02

  What is this?

• 1:39:40Speaker 03

  This is just a single shot of that.

• 1:39:42Speaker 02

  Oh, the great whiskey, the great tequila. Thank you.

• 1:39:44Speaker 03

  All right, thank you.

• 1:39:46Speaker 02

  I love that text was from like 20 minutes ago. Thank you. Addison, you're the best, man.

• 1:39:51Tim Ferriss?

  Thanks, man.

• 1:39:51Speaker 02

  Pickstudio.ai for Tim in Speedo's.

• 1:39:54Speaker 03

  Did you already pull it up?

• 1:39:55Speaker 02

  I pulled it up.

• 1:39:56Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, so good. Amazing. Crazy.

• 1:39:58Speaker 02

  I mean, it looks just like him.

• 1:39:59Speaker 03

  It does look like him.

• 1:40:01Tim Ferriss?

  What's the story of the snake through the skull on your forearm?

• 1:40:04Speaker 03

  It's traditional. There's no stories, man.

• 1:40:07Tim Ferriss?

  All right, there's no stories. It's just beautiful. All right, you know what? I stand corrected. I like it.

• 1:40:10Speaker 03

  Hold on, hold on. What about this one? There's no story with the...

• 1:40:13Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah, like the monkey in the hat with the cigar? That looks pretty traditional, too.

• 1:40:19Speaker 03

  How about this little baby?

• 1:40:20Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, look at like the CCP baby with the boxing gloves? Yeah, who knows?

• 1:40:25Speaker 02

  Addison's the best. Thank you so much.

• 1:40:27Speaker 03

  Did you guys talk about like just what happened last week or two weeks ago with like Flux and the model?

• 1:40:33Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. So we did mention that upfront, but I think we should mention it. Well, I didn't mention Flux. So there was a new model that came out.

• 1:40:39Tim Ferriss?

  Addison, you get to do the cheers. What should we cheers to?

• 1:40:43Speaker 03

  To our girlfriends and our wives.

• 1:40:49Speaker 02

  To our girlfriends and our wives, may they never meet, is what Addison says.

• 1:40:53Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, future tense for me. But, you know, a boy can dream.

• 1:40:56Speaker 02

  So just to give the round out of the 30 seconds, Addison, you switched to a new model called Flux.

• 1:41:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, everyone knows about it, like that's deep in the AI space.

• 1:41:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is the new AI shit.

• 1:41:07Speaker 03

  What's really crazy is so you guys brought up...

• 1:41:10Tim Ferriss?

  Should we get him a mic?

• 1:41:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're talking to this mic. Kneel down for a sec.

• 1:41:15Tim Ferriss?

  Take a knee.

• 1:41:15Speaker 02

  Just tell us about Flux, because the pictures of Tim are insane. Why are they better now than they were three months ago?

• 1:41:22Speaker 03

  Well, the like, you guys originally brought up a prom tent like maybe two years ago now, or maybe a year and a half ago. It was like on like in December of 2020, 2020. You look good. That's not even AI. That's just like, that's our trip to Mexico.

• 1:41:35Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, that's just Mexico, you know?

• 1:41:40Speaker 03

  No, so you guys brought it up and you were making all these theories about what's gonna happen with AI and really like just the models just keep getting better and the prompts are kind of still saying still staying complicated and so essentially there was a team at Stable Diffusion or Stability AI, those folks left and basically started another open source model and this thing is competing with Mid Journey and it's all open source and it launched and that like the day or the couple of days after it launched, everyone was saying like you won't be able to fine tune, you won't be able to like train like basically these Laura's and things like that 24 hours later. I was like, actually you can. That's how rapidly it's changed.

• 1:42:21Tim Ferriss?

  Sounds like AI.

• 1:42:22Speaker 03

  It's just insane and and it takes very little effort now to train these models.

• 1:42:25Tim Ferriss?

  We'll put a bunch of these up. They're nuts.

• 1:42:26Speaker 02

  Let me ask you a question on this.

• 1:42:27Tim Ferriss?

  Also, I feel like we're gonna put these up and then people are gonna meet me in person and be like, uh, what happened? You really let yourself go?

• 1:42:33Speaker 02

  Hold on, this picture of Tim with the with the red like speedo type stuff.

• 1:42:36Speaker 03

  I'm gonna have to pull the AI photos up.

• 1:42:39Speaker 02

  Exactly. Yeah. Nice. Nice way to get on Tim's good side. How could you say I want him in a black jacket here, red, red pants?

• 1:42:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. So the way like what I'm working on with like Pick Studio AI is essentially like everyone wants really.

• 1:42:54Speaker 04

  I'm gonna have this part out, but do you wanna like go a little bit more over here so we can see your face?

• 1:42:58Speaker 03

  Oh, I mean, sure. Come on, come over this way. I wanna get my, get my good side. God damn.

• 1:43:03Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Just sit on Kevin's, just sit on Kevin's lap if you want.

• 1:43:07Speaker 03

  I'm not saying that's hot, but if the boner police were around, I'd demand a lawyer.

• 1:43:12Tim Ferriss?

  That's definitely staying in.

• 1:43:15Speaker 03

  Shout out Hot Rod. Okay. Just give us the quote. Going down over here. Geez, my toothbrush. You're gonna have to catch up.

• 1:43:25Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, God, you're kneeling on his fleshlight.

• 1:43:28Speaker 03

  They should make the afters for this. This would be amazing. There you go, sir. Go ahead. Tell us how we can modify this. Well, no, the way I've seen this sort of working like in a way that is actually usable, which is what I keep telling people is how many times have you taken headshots where you just need them from either LinkedIn or a show that you're working on? It's just like a really Dating. I mean, that's, yeah, I'd hate to be dating right now.

• 1:43:51Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, me too.

• 1:43:52Speaker 03

  But you can do anything, really, essentially, like what we're trying to do is figure out what kind of photos people want.

• 1:43:58Tim Ferriss?

  Wait, wait, go to the, go to the website for a second. What's, what's the tagline? Pro portraits created with AI.

• 1:44:04Speaker 03

  That's, we're, we're

• 1:44:04Tim Ferriss?

  There we go.

• 1:44:05Speaker 03

  A whole bunch of stuff, and these are actually old ones because we're, we're sort of piloting this right now. It's a different portrait, so those are, those are old versions of our portraits. But, you know, I see it less being, hey, I want to be riding an elephant, going, you know, crazy. It's more like, I used to take portraits every year with my buddy Nate Taylor, who took your portraits back in the day, and we'd have to spend like a day or two taking these photos, and like, he doesn't want to do it, I don't want to do it, he's gonna take a thousand photos and maybe one looks good, and it's like, this is just gonna get it right, right away.

• 1:44:36Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:36Speaker 03

  So it's just, it's a realistic way of getting a great portrait. But you can do whatever, like, I, I absolutely did that, and that's going to my, my library.

• 1:44:45Tim Ferriss?

  Your, your

• 1:44:45Speaker 03

  Your private stash.

• 1:44:49Tim Ferriss?

  Book, bookmarks, tax, tax returns 2011.

• 1:44:52Speaker 02

  I think I'm gonna make an OnlyFans for Tim. I'm gonna make an OnlyFans for Tim based solely on this AI model. And, uh, that's an interesting thing. All right, so.

• 1:45:03Tim Ferriss?

  That's true, I could have an, I can, you're right over there?

• 1:45:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm good.

• 1:45:06Tim Ferriss?

  Microphone went for, went for a wobble.

• 1:45:08Speaker 02

  Uh, I, I love Addison, he's, he's the best. He's always dabbling, like, this is a one-person startup that he did on his own.

• 1:45:15Tim Ferriss?

  I fucking love that, though.

• 1:45:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know, it's so cool.

• 1:45:16Tim Ferriss?

  Dude, dabbling, the dabbling is where you find things to double down on.

• 1:45:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:45:20Tim Ferriss?

  Right? That's, that's where it all, where it's where all the magic happens.

• 1:45:24Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. All right, I'm, I'm, I'm out of good stories. You got anything else?

• 1:45:27Tim Ferriss?

  You got good stories. I think I've covered most of it on my list. I'll mention a few things. There's a children's book for adults.

• 1:45:35Speaker 02

  Children's.

• 1:45:37Tim Ferriss?

  You're right.

• 1:45:37Speaker 02

  You said children's.

• 1:45:39Tim Ferriss?

  Children's, yeah, a children's, children, apostrophe S, a children's.

• 1:45:43Speaker 02

  Children's.

• 1:45:45Tim Ferriss?

  Yes.

• 1:45:45Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:45:47Tim Ferriss?

  Maybe it's Long Island coming out. I don't know. I think that's how you say it.

• 1:45:49Speaker 02

  It's called Tequila Coming Out, but it go ahead.

• 1:45:51Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, Lordy. Called The Well of Being by Jean Pierre Weil, I guess, if you're gonna say it in German.

• 1:45:57Speaker 02

  All right.

• 1:45:58Tim Ferriss?

  And this has made an impact on me. It's a beautiful book. It's very easy to read. You could read it with your kids. And the couple who introduced me to this are one of the most thoughtful, present and playful couples I know. F and K, thank you for all of this. And it infused, you know, they've also infused the raising of their daughters with the ethos of this book in a way. So here's the description. The Well of Being from Jean Pierre Weil is an illustrated inquiry into the art of happiness and what it means to be radically alive in our daily moments. I'll stop there. It's a long description.

• 1:46:33Speaker 02

  It's out of print. I'm on Amazon right now. It's out of print.

• 1:46:35Tim Ferriss?

  Is it really?

• 1:46:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so I had to just buy a used copy.

• 1:46:37Tim Ferriss?

  Buy a used copy. It's a beautiful book.

• 1:46:40Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:46:40Tim Ferriss?

  And then separately, there's a question that I've been asking myself a lot, and you can find this more elaborated upon on my blog. Takes two or three minutes, but don't freak out because of the first few paragraphs of the blog post. But it's a strong metaphor and the question is, are you hunting antelope or field mice? And I've been thinking about this with the podcast as well as with respect to next projects, how I choose next projects, right? Because all we have is our energy and time. And if you spend it in one place, you can't spend it in another. And this particular question, people can look it up for the history, but are you hunting, are you, are you hunting?

• 1:47:22Tim Ferriss?

  Antelope or field mice is a reference to sort of the metaphor of the lion. A lion can survive on field mice, but it's going to ultimately be very, very, very, very, very over busy. And it's going to burn more calories than it earns through hunting field mice.

• 1:47:39Speaker 02

  So be skinny.

• 1:47:40Tim Ferriss?

  Don't be skinny, but like pick a big.

• 1:47:42Speaker 02

  It would be skinny if it was just doing field mice.

• 1:47:44Tim Ferriss?

  It would be skinny, yeah. But pick a big, audacious goal that can feed you for a long time. Right? So as you're being busy, quote unquote, like, are you hunting field mice or antelope?

• 1:47:57Speaker 02

  Can I challenge that for a second?

• 1:47:58Tim Ferriss?

  Challenge.

• 1:47:59Speaker 02

  So if you're hunting field mice, I'm assuming that's easier prey, easier to get, probably gives you more time to like.

• 1:48:10Speaker 02

  Sit with who you are.

• 1:48:11Tim Ferriss?

  Watch Netflix.

• 1:48:12Speaker 02

  Like, the one thing that struck me about today, and I just like, let's have a little real talk for a second.

• 1:48:17Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, wow. Oh, God, coming to Jesus moment. Here we go.

• 1:48:19Speaker 02

  Like, you went on this sabbatical.

• 1:48:22Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:23Speaker 02

  And yet, you had to write a book.

• 1:48:25Tim Ferriss?

  I didn't have, I didn't have to write a book.

• 1:48:27Speaker 02

  Hold on, hold on. Our mutual friend.

• 1:48:29Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:48:30Speaker 02

  Who shall not be named, pointed this out as well.

• 1:48:33Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:34Speaker 02

  Where it's like, can you sit and just be you, or would that be too hard?

• 1:48:41Tim Ferriss?

  Okay, let's do it. All right. So, yeah, this is, this is good. Let's, let's get into the fucking chewy bits. So, I routinely, every year, spend at least a month off the grid, right? Like, last October, I was gone. I was in, I was off the grid.

• 1:49:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you were doing shit.

• 1:49:01Tim Ferriss?

  I was doing stuff, but here, here's my question, right? And this was in our shared text thread. I basically said, okay, look, so the accusation is that Tim doesn't know how to chill out. I'm like, okay, fine, let's take that as true. If Tim were to chill out, what does that look like on a daily and weekly basis? And one of my challenges was, humans are built to be social. You have a family. Our mutual friend has a family. There's an inbuilt social network in that family. I don't have that, right? So my.

• 1:49:34Speaker 02

  I mean, you're a brother to me, so you always have a family.

• 1:49:37Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I appreciate that. And like, on a day-to-day basis, when I wake up in the morning, like, you know, my hotel room, my house is empty, right?

• 1:49:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:49:44Tim Ferriss?

  So I need to go externally. I need to travel outside of the confines of my house to find that human interaction. So the question is, like, okay, well, if you could write the script, what would Tim Ferriss chilling out look like?

• 1:50:00Speaker 02

  I don't know what that would look like.

• 1:50:01Tim Ferriss?

  What would it look like?

• 1:50:02Speaker 02

  Oh, it's very simple.

• 1:50:04Tim Ferriss?

  All right.

• 1:50:04Speaker 02

  I got the best answer for you ever.

• 1:50:05Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:50:07Speaker 02

  No script.

• 1:50:08Tim Ferriss?

  Ah, that sounds like some fucking fortune cookie stuff that I can't make sense of, though. What does that mean?

• 1:50:11Speaker 02

  I know you can't make sense of it, but that's the point. It's no script.

• 1:50:16Tim Ferriss?

  When have you done that?

• 1:50:18Speaker 02

  When I did my meditation retreats, when I do, there's.

• 1:50:20Tim Ferriss?

  No, but you had a, you had a schedule for the, for each day.

• 1:50:23Speaker 02

  Sure, but like, I think.

• 1:50:25Tim Ferriss?

  That was like an intensive, silent retreat where you're meditating eight hours a day.

• 1:50:29Speaker 02

  Like, okay, I suffer from the same thing you do. I suffer from the same thing you do. And that is that we can't.

• 1:50:35Tim Ferriss?

  There's a reason we're all friends, right? We're all fucking border collies chewing on the couch.

• 1:50:39Speaker 02

  We can't turn it off, you know? And it's like, honestly, I think the healthiest thing, though, would be to wake up with no agenda for a month, with no friends for a month, with the fact that you just wake up saying, what is today gonna bring? And that is damn fucking horrible for people that are driven like you and me are.

• 1:50:59Tim Ferriss?

  So I did that for almost a month last October.

• 1:51:01Speaker 02

  But you did some psychedelics during that time and shit? Come on.

• 1:51:05Tim Ferriss?

  Towards the end, but in that particular case, I mean, I'll just say that I don't think humans are built for isolation.

• 1:51:11Speaker 02

  Agreed, agreed.

• 1:51:12Tim Ferriss?

  And there, and there is a fetishizing of self-sufficiency and independence in the US that I think is unhealthy. It exists in other places, for sure. But if you look at our evolutionary biological, like our biological programming, completely refutes that. To be exiled, to be excluded from the group is effectively death.

• 1:51:33Speaker 02

  Hundred percent. And I'm not, I'm not arguing that, but what I'm arguing is like, what if you couldn't touch a pen or a computer for a month?

• 1:51:38Tim Ferriss?

  They shoot arrows.

• 1:51:40Speaker 02

  Or, or both.

• 1:51:42Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I mean, the, I do think, and I can't remember the particular attribution of this. Man, I wish I could really remember it, but.

• 1:51:50Speaker 02

  Ron Jeremy?

• 1:51:52Tim Ferriss?

  The hedgehog? No, it was, it was someone else, but it was basically like, man finds leisure through the, through the switching from one activity to another, like one compelling activity to another, something along those lines and. I wish I had the exact quote and the attribution, but I don't. And this, this applies obviously cross gender. But the point being that I'm not convinced that being idle is a fruitful goal to have. If you can't sit with yourself for five minutes, that's a problem.

• 1:52:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:27Tim Ferriss?

  Right? But different people have different constitutions. And for me, for instance, right? If you look at the four hour work week, okay. So I get rid of, not get rid of, but I automate my whole business, blah, blah, blah. What do I do? I end up doing tangos like six to eight hours a day.

• 1:52:42Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:52:43Tim Ferriss?

  But that was not done from a position of obligation or fear. It was done from a place of like enthusiasm and excitement and love.

• 1:52:57Speaker 02

  That's different.

• 1:52:58Tim Ferriss?

  And that I think is good medicine. Right? So as long as I have the self-awareness to distinguish between something that is done from a place of fear or guilt or prestige hunger or responsibility or some nebulous obligation versus the things that enliven me.

• 1:53:21Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:53:22Tim Ferriss?

  I think being active is fine as long as I land in the latter category.

• 1:53:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:26Tim Ferriss?

  Right? Like, for instance, like I'm doing a lot of archery right now and I fucking love it. Like I am so fed by it. And I'm not saying I'm the world's best. I certainly am not, but I just find it so meditative and.

• 1:53:42Speaker 02

  But can I ask you one question? One of the things I'm really curious about is like, Tim, like I, I, I respect you so much because of how I've watched you dissect and, you know, assimilate like information like no other human I've ever seen on earth. And you are able to learn and pick up and go deep on any topic within a matter of minutes or hours or weeks, you know, like you, you do that quite well. The one thing that is the rounding out of the holistic picture of Tim, that I'm curious if you could ever tap into is the Tim that says.

• 1:54:20Speaker 02

  I can just be without having to go for those things or having to engage in that type of thinking, you know, that type of like pursuit, that type of analyzing, you know, I, Daria, my wife is, she's a PhD in neuroscience and, and I oftentimes get engaged in intense debates with her about this where I'm just like, chill the fuck out. No, I'm just

• 1:54:47Speaker 02

  cut that, cut that. Daria, don't listen this far. So, but I'm just like, you know, I'm like, I'm like, I wish, I wish with all my friends balance. And I think of the, where our mutual friend was trying to get to is like, might you find

• 1:55:01Tim Ferriss?

  Voldemort?

• 1:55:02Speaker 02

  Might you, might you find a little bit more of that side of the house? Cause you have the other in spades.

• 1:55:08Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah. It's a good question. I mean, I'll sit with it. I think that balance can come in a lot of different forms, right? So the, the balance is time bound, right? In the sense that is it balanced on a daily basis? Is it on a weekly basis?

• 1:55:20Speaker 02

  You're analyzing it though.

• 1:55:21Tim Ferriss?

  No, hold on, hold on. No, it's not. It's, it's finding the right conceptual framework through us to think about it. And I, and I don't think that's a mistake. I think it's actually very helpful. Depends on how your mind works, right? For me though, it's like, if I'm super intense for a month and I'm going 10 out of 10 and then I'm zero out of 10 for a month, like that equates to kind of a five, five, right? That's for me, a certain degree of balance, but it's not, if you looked at it on the minute to minute, hour to hour, day to day, it would look very lopsided.

• 1:55:54Speaker 02

  I know a fantastic app that I would love to build for you, which would be like the Tim Tim random app. And like you open it up every morning and it tells you what to do for a month. And it'd be like, today, it's like, what the fuck is this? And you'd be like, oh, I have to buy a slip and slide and go down it 20 times. Like, you know, it's just like something where it's just like throwing you completely out of your like, and you're like, wow, I didn't have to think about it. I didn't have to overanalyze it. It's just a fucking thing I'm gonna do.

• 1:56:20Tim Ferriss?

  Well, this is, this is part of the curse of the entrepreneur.

• 1:56:23Speaker 02

  But it's also, but it's

• 1:56:24Tim Ferriss?

  No, I'm just saying.

• 1:56:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, a hundred percent.

• 1:56:26Tim Ferriss?

  You know exactly what I'm talking about.

• 1:56:27Speaker 02

  I know exactly what you're saying.

• 1:56:28Tim Ferriss?

  We've talked about this.

• 1:56:28Speaker 02

  But also, but also at the same time.

• 1:56:31Tim Ferriss?

  These are your mics.

• 1:56:32Speaker 02

  I know, these are my mics. But also at the same time, I will say that like, when you introduce another partner, it's the dance that's fucking hard, right?

• 1:56:40Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:40Speaker 02

  Cause Daria is very much about like, Structure and shit.

• 1:56:45Tim Ferriss?

  Daria and I are very similar.

• 1:56:46Speaker 02

  Very similar.

• 1:56:47Tim Ferriss?

  Super similar.

• 1:56:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:48Tim Ferriss?

  Love you, Daria.

• 1:56:49Speaker 02

  She's you with hair.

• 1:56:50Tim Ferriss?

  You're the best.

• 1:56:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, but she's

• 1:56:52Tim Ferriss?

  Kevin doesn't know what he's doing.

• 1:56:53Speaker 02

  She has a better body.

• 1:56:57Speaker 02

  I mean, you look at my AI.

• 1:56:59Tim Ferriss?

  Her ass is better than yours.

• 1:57:00Speaker 02

  I'm sorry.

• 1:57:02Tim Ferriss?

  We gotta shut this off. You gotta catch my Okay, thank you, everyone, for tuning into the show. Good to see you, buddy.

• 1:57:09Speaker 02

  I love you, brother.

• 1:57:10Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I love you too, man.

• 1:57:11Speaker 02

  It's always good to hang out with you. Seriously, like, I wish we could be in the same city for more than like a day or two at a time.

• 1:57:19Tim Ferriss?

  Seriously, 100% agreed, so.

• 1:57:21Speaker 02

  If we can talk Daria to moving to Austin, I would be down. Seriously.

• 1:57:24Tim Ferriss?

  We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. Good to see you, buddy.

• 1:57:27Speaker 02

  All right.

• 1:57:27Tim Ferriss?

  All right, man.

• 1:57:28Speaker 02

  Peace.

• 1:57:28Tim Ferriss?

  See you, guys. And, oh, yeah, for all the links and whatever images of me and my Speedos and all that, good jazz, go to tim.blog/podcast.

• 1:57:36Speaker 02

  Yes, and check out my Kevin Ewan episode at KevinRose.com.

• 1:57:39Tim Ferriss?

  There we go, KevinRose.com. All right, everybody. Take care. Hey, guys, this is Tim again. Just one more thing before you take off, and that is Five Bullet Friday. Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend? Between 1.5 and 2 million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called Five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half-page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things I've found or discovered or have started exploring over that week. It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading, albums, perhaps, gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on

• 1:58:22Tim Ferriss?

  that get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcast guests. And these strange esoteric things end up in my field, and then I test them, and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun, again, it's very short, a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend, something to think about. If you'd like to try it out, just go to tim.blog/friday. Type that into your browser, tim.blog/friday. Drop in your email, and you'll get the very next one. Thanks for listening. Way back in the day, in 2010, I published a book called The Four Hour Body, which I probably started writing in 2008. And in that book, I recommended many, many, many things.

• 1:59:05Tim Ferriss?

  First generation continuous glucose monitor and cold exposure and all sorts of things that have been tested by people from NASA and all over the place. And one thing in that book was Athletic Greens. I did not get paid to include it. I was using it. That's how long I've been using what is now known as AG1. AG1 is my all-in-one nutritional insurance. And I just packed up, for instance, to go off the grid for a while. And the last thing I left out on my countertop to remember to take, I'm not making this up, I'm looking right in front of me, is travel packets of AG1. So rather than taking multiple pills or products to cover your mental clarity, gut health, immune health, energy and so on,

• 1:59:48Tim Ferriss?

  you can squirt these areas through one daily scoop of AG1, which tastes great even with water. I always just have it with water. I usually take it first thing in the morning and it takes me less than two minutes total. Honestly, it takes me less than a minute. I just put it in a shaker bottle, shake it up and I'm done. AG1 bolsters my digestion and nutrient absorption by including ingredients optimized to support a healthy gut in every scoop. AG1 in a single serve travel packs, which I mentioned earlier, also makes for the perfect travel companion. I'll actually be going totally off the grid, but these things are incredibly, incredibly space efficient. You could even put them in a book, frankly. I mean, they're kind of like bookmarks. After consuming this product for more than a decade,

• 2:00:30Tim Ferriss?

  I chose to invest in AG1 in 2021 as I trust their no compromise approach to ingredient sourcing and appreciate their focus on continuously improving ONE formula. They go above and beyond by testing for 950 or so contaminants and impurities compared to the industry standard of 10. AG1 is also tested for heavy metals and 500 various pesticides and herbicides. I've started paying a lot of attention to pesticides. That's a story for another time. To make sure you're consuming only the good stuff. AG1 is also NSF certified. For sport, that means if you're not, you can take it. The certification process is exhaustive and involves the testing and verification of each ingredient and every finished batch of AG1. So they take testing very seriously.

• 2:01:14Tim Ferriss?

  There's no better time than today to start a new healthy habit. And this is an easy one. Wake up, water in the shaker bottle, AG1, boom. So take advantage of this exclusive offer for you, my dear podcast listeners, a free one-year supply of liquid vitamin D plus five travel packs with your subscription. Simply go to drinkag1.com/tim. That's the number one drinkag1.com/tim for a free one-year supply of liquid vitamin D plus five travel packs with your first subscription purchase. Learn more at drinkag1.com/tim. This episode is brought to you by Helix Sleep. Helix Sleep is a premium mattress brand that provides tailored mattresses based on your sleep preferences.

• 2:01:59Tim Ferriss?

  Their lineup includes 14 unique mattresses, including a collection of luxury models, a mattress for big and tall sleepers, that's not me, and even a mattress made specifically for kids. They have models with memory foam layers to provide optimal pressure relief if you sleep on your side, as I often do and did last night on one of their beds. Models with more responsive foam to cradle your body for essential support in stomach and back sleeping positions and on and on. They have you covered. So how will you know which Helix mattress works best for you and your body? Take the Helix Sleep Quiz at helixsleep.com/tim and find your perfect mattress in less than two minutes. Personally, for the last few years, I have been sleeping on a Helix Midnight Luxe mattress. I also have one of those in the guest bedroom, and feedback from friends has always been

• 2:02:43Tim Ferriss?

  fantastic. They frequently say it's the best night of sleep they've had in ages. It's something they comment on without any prompting from me whatsoever. Helix mattresses are American-made and come with a 10- or 15-year warranty, depending on the model. Your mattress will be shipped straight to your door, free of charge. And there's no better way to test out a new mattress than by sleeping on it in your own home. That's why they offer a 100-night risk-free trial. If you decide it's not the best fit, you're welcome to return it for a full refund. Helix has been awarded Number one mattress by both GQ and Wired magazines. And now Helix has harnessed years of extensive mattress expertise to bring you a truly elevated sleep experience. Their newest collection of mattresses called Helix Elite includes six different mattress

• 2:03:26Tim Ferriss?

  models, each tailored for specific sleep positions and firmness preferences, so you can get exactly what your body needs. Each Helix Elite mattress comes with an extra layer of foam for pressure relief and thousands of extra micro coils for best-in-class support and durability. Every Helix Elite mattress also comes with a 15-year manufacturer's warranty and the same 100-night trial as the rest of Helix's mattresses. And you, my dear listeners, can get between 25% and 30% off, plus two free pillows, on all mattress orders. So, go to helixsleep.com/tim to check it out. That's helixsleep.com/tim. With Helix, better sleep starts now.