#399 - NEW Directed Energy Weapon Leak, DARPA Dolphins & ‘Ghost Murmur’ Tech | Jack Murphy

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Jack Murphy is an author, journalist, & co-host of ‪@TheTeamHousePodcast. Jack is also an Army Special Operations veteran who served as a sniper and team leader in 3rd Ranger Battalion and as a senior weapons sergeant on a military free fall team in 5th Special Forces Group. SPONSORS https://incogni.com/danny - Use code DANNY for 60% off an annual plan. https://mengotomars.com - Use code DANNY for 50% off FOR LIFE, free shipping & 3 free gifts. https://takeultra.com - Use code DANNY for 15% off. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off EPISODE LINKS @TheTeamHousePodcast https://substack.com/@thehighside FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Getting his story killed by CIA 07:02 - Epstein files latest 14:49 - Jack reveals his sources 15:54 - Havana Syndrome patient zero 23:32 - DOD acquires microwave weapon 25:21 - The behavior adjustment device 28:33 - Espionage has moved to the gig economy 33:27 - Cuba's intelligence service is really good 38:09 - Russian microwave weapons 44:25 - Long-term health effects of Havana Syndrome 48:30 - The CIA's "Ghost Murmur" tech 53:49 - DARPA's insane new war technology 01:01:19 - Underwater recon in the Strait of Hormuz 01:04:08 - Iran's highly enriched uranium 01:07:39 - Iran rescue mission 01:09:46 - CIA "Nocs" in Iran 01:19:27 - How to spot an intelligence agent 01:24:37 - Likelihood of military draft happening again 01:25:50 - The argument for bringing back the draft 01:29:31 - The American Dream is dead 01:37:22 - Special Ops Mothership at Diego Garcia 01:39:47 - Where the government hides secret tech 01:42:34 - Theft of agricultural drones 01:51:27 - Thomas Massie & the Israel agenda 01:58:55 - The Most Dangerous Man 02:00:39 - Sarajevo sport hunting 02:08:11 - The only reason Epstein went to prison 02:15:12 - Evidence Epstein is alive 02:21:46 - The JFK files stolen by the CIA 02:29:26 - China is playing the long game Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:37Danny Jones?

  Dude, it's been like three years since you've been here. We were just talking off camera.

• 0:40Speaker 02

  Time flies.

• 0:40Danny Jones?

  It's crazy, a little bit over three years, man. Time really does fly.

• 0:43Speaker 02

  You have a whole family since the last time I've seen you.

• 0:47Danny Jones?

  I know. Well, I have at least had two more kids since you were here last.

• 0:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 0:52Danny Jones?

  Oh my God, it's crazy, dude. And the last time you were here, we discussed you had come across an insane story regarding the war in the Ukraine, the Ukraine-Russia war. How you had a bunch of sources that were telling you that CIA was working with another intelligence agency inside of Russia.

• 1:16Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 1:16Danny Jones?

  To do sabotage operations in Russia. And you were, I've talked about this so many times on this podcast, from the last three years, it's insane. How you were like working with a huge publication for months on releasing this. And then right up to the day, it got to the day where you guys were gonna launch the whole story on their platform. And then you had to have a call with the Deputy Director of the CIA. And they had an offer record agreement, you couldn't publish it. Insane.

• 1:44Speaker 02

  Well, that decision was made without me. I mean, ironically, they waited until the moment I was unavailable to have that conversation. And then by the time I got back and got back online, like, oh yeah. And I mean, this is a little bit of like insider baseball, but like maybe some people would be interested. And I think your audience too, you know, there's a belief that the CIA controls the media, right, for instance. It's not that. That's not how it works, but there is a relationship between the media and large governmental bureaucracies like the CIA. I'm not trying to split hairs here, but I mean, I'll tell you how it works is that you have newspaper reporters who have to report news. They need to get their stories.

• 2:26Speaker 02

  And what they do is they have relationships, usually it is with a deputy director or deputy commander, if it's a military command, and they will speak on background, give maybe an off the record quote. And what happens is that these journalists can over time, in some instances, become captured by their sources.

• 2:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:47Speaker 02

  That they do not want the government to turn that spigot off, that spigot of information, because that's their career. And look, I mean, again, not to be too cynical, but some of these editors at big news publications, they have mortgages to pay, they have kids to put through college. They're not going to like go out on a limb and risk their career for some, some national security story.

• 3:08Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:09Speaker 02

  You know, so there's this, this sort of influence that exists that, yeah, I mean, I think it's super bad and I don't think it's conducive towards transparency.

• 3:21Danny Jones?

  No, and it certainly is convenient to the people that work for the big government agencies.

• 3:28Speaker 02

  It's convenient for power, right?

• 3:30Danny Jones?

  It's convenient for them. They have an unlimited amount of money and the people that are doing this reporting that are relying on them, you know, they need that money. It's human nature and it sucks because it's, that's like the antithesis of what journalism really is, right?

• 3:46Speaker 02

  Right, right. And yeah, hence, hence the sub stack.

• 3:50Danny Jones?

  Right. That's why we got people like you out here and, and Tim Dillon. I get most of my news from Tim Dillon.

• 3:58Speaker 02

  I love a Tim Dillon rant.

• 4:01Speaker 02

  I mean, yeah, the state of the news media is a whole other thing. I mean, you can see everything going on with CBS.

• 4:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 4:10Speaker 02

  You know, the press.

• 4:10Danny Jones?

  Larry Ellison and stuff.

• 4:11Speaker 02

  The press corps getting kicked out of the White House and the Pentagon. And I mean, I'm not sure how much of a value add the press corps has been since, you know, maybe the JFK assassination, but nonetheless, I don't agree with, you know, it's press censorship or restricting transparency around the press.

• 4:30Speaker 02

  And then all the layoffs, it's not just a CBS, it's, it's almost all across the board. I mean, so many people have been laid off in, in journalism and, and there's some people out there, I get it. There's some people listening to this that are like, screw journalists, you know, and I mean, I have issues with journalism myself, like I just described, you know, their, their relationship with the government at times. But the thing is that journalism is a net positive overall, big picture for society and for the American public. In other words, it's much better that it's there than if it was not there. If it was not there, we'd be in extremely, in much more trouble than we are now, right?

• 5:10Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 5:10Speaker 02

  That, that's the, the kind of like counterfactual I'm trying to make. This is why we should value.

• 5:15Danny Jones?

  And it's hard because in this day and age with technology and the way the internet's going is that we have more and more and more and more journalism, right? We have every, all these new pop-up journalists everywhere can be on, man on the street type interviewers, whether it be like YouTubers or just people who post on Twitter all day. It's, it's getting harder to filter the wheat from the chaff, right? And to get cut through the noise to what's real, to what's not real, to what's just, you know, lazy journalism. And I still think that's better than having two or three big TV networks who are just getting piped

• 5:59Danny Jones?

  their information straight from the CIA, right? You just gotta, you, you, we have to become as citizens and consumers of the news, we have to become better at filtering out the bullshit.

• 6:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, that's, that's absolutely true. Yeah, media literacy matters. And you're right, though. It is tough. It's tough for you and I. It's tough for, you know, I mean, it's tough for me at times. So you can imagine somebody who's not in journalism and doesn't really follow national defense, how difficult it is to piece these things together, like what sources are viable, which ones aren't. And right now, you know, as you point out, we have like a very libertarian model towards how journalism works. Like almost anyone can jump in and participate and compete on the free market.

• 6:44Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 6:44Speaker 02

  And that has good, there's good aspects and bad aspects of it. I mean, it is conducive to stories getting out there that would not be published in a major publication normally. So there's that. But yeah, the flip side is just, there's so much information out there. Where do you begin?

• 7:02Danny Jones?

  Right, exactly. So what have you been working on? I mean, there's no shortage of shit going on out there in the world right now.

• 7:10Speaker 02

  Dude.

• 7:11Danny Jones?

  I was like, it's so hard. It's like every three hours, there's a crazy news story that's coming out, whether it be regards to the Iran war, or these Epstein files, or fucking aliens, or Hanta virus, you name it.

• 7:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, and our government is even like the purveyor of like UFO leaks now.

• 7:29Danny Jones?

  My god, dude. It reminds me of when the first Epstein file thing came out, where they came, the influencers came out with the binders, Epstein files.

• 7:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And we've still, we've still only seen like 50% of them, right?

• 7:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah, the Epstein files? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. If that.

• 7:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:45Danny Jones?

  Fully redacted, not protecting the victims, only protecting the billionaire PDF files.

• 7:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, when that stuff came out, like, I'll get back to the topic, but I mean, when the Epstein stuff came out, what we have seen, it was like worse than I thought it would be.

• 8:00Danny Jones?

  Oh, way worse.

• 8:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, I thought, yeah, I mean, we know he was involved in sex trafficking, and he's a really bad guy. I suspected that there were going to be some Israeli intelligence stuff around him.

• 8:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 8:13Speaker 02

  But all the stuff that like came out about him and the Russians, it's like, whoa, dude, what was going on here? And I can only imagine what's in those unreleased files.

• 8:23Danny Jones?

  What was the part about him and the Russians again?

• 8:25Speaker 02

  He was making like trips to Russia, even after the Ukraine war began. He was making these like trips to Russia. He was trying to meet with Vladimir Putin.

• 8:33Danny Jones?

  Putin, right, yeah.

• 8:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, and he was going over there, and I don't even want to know what he was doing over there. I mean, I think we all know what he was doing, but.

• 8:40Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 8:42Speaker 02

  You can imagine if the Russians had stuff on him.

• 8:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 8:45Speaker 02

  And who, I mean, God only knows, this whole thing is like such a.

• 8:49Danny Jones?

  Well, I mean, his, his. Not really his father-in-law, but Ghislaine Maxwell's dad was like a famous triple spy, right?

• 8:56Speaker 02

  Robert Maxwell.

• 8:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah, Robert Maxwell.

• 8:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:58Danny Jones?

  Worked for the KGB, MI6, and Mossad, and allegedly was whacked by a Mossad fucking SEAL team or something.

• 9:07Speaker 02

  I mean, I believe the, the, the story is he like drowned off the back.

• 9:11Danny Jones?

  That's the, that's the story.

• 9:12Speaker 02

  Right, yeah, I don't know.

• 9:13Danny Jones?

  But he was threatening to like expose all their shit right before that.

• 9:16Speaker 02

  I, I, I don't know, I don't know any details about it, but there, there's a book out there called Gideon Spies.

• 9:21Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:22Speaker 02

  I read many years ago that has like a whole chapter, I think, about him.

• 9:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I've heard that was a really good book. I have friends who've read that.

• 9:28Speaker 02

  It was interesting.

• 9:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah, the Epstein stuff's insane. The most insane part about the government dropping those Epstein files on us and the alien, well, fuck the alien files, that's all distraction. All that shit was already public. Um, is that like, they do it and they give us no context or analysis or anything. It's like, they drop it on us and it's like, okay, what's the FBI's conclusion on this?

• 9:53Speaker 02

  Right.

• 9:53Danny Jones?

  You know, like, what is, like, where's your report? No, we're just gonna give you all this crazy insane shit about, uh, ball and human sacrifice and trafficking people across borders and people being murdered and eating like code words for human flesh and stuff like this, but no, no analysis from the FBI here. This is just do with it what you will.

• 10:15Speaker 02

  And going back to what you said about the average person trying to piecemeal like what is accurate information, what is true.

• 10:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 10:21Speaker 02

  The average person has to go through 3.5 million pages of Epstein files.

• 10:26Danny Jones?

  It's only 2% of the total related data?

• 10:30Speaker 02

  That's so wild, man.

• 10:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 10:32Speaker 02

  And I mean, like, zoom out like a little bit, like, big picture, like, what's going on here socially is that our government is basically telling us, this is a load-bearing child sex trafficking network, so it just can't be messed with. Like, you can't go in there and start pulling that apart because they're like, the government would collapse and, and all these.

• 10:51Danny Jones?

  Look at the Dow.

• 10:52Speaker 02

  It's, it's, it's.

• 10:53Danny Jones?

  It's at 50,000. Do you want the Dow to not be at 50,000?

• 10:58Speaker 02

  Why do I hate America?

• 11:02Danny Jones?

  Tim Dillon said it best on his recent episode. He goes, you know, America used to be the, the high school quarterback. You know, we were the, we were the bully in the hall. We were the quarterback. Now, we're the weird kid who may have a gun.

• 11:21Speaker 02

  His rant about how like the last aspect of the American dream that's still alive is fantasizing about killing your coworkers.

• 11:33Danny Jones?

  Oh my God, dude. Tim Dillon is a national fucking treasure.

• 11:38Speaker 02

  He's off the wall, man.

• 11:40Danny Jones?

  He is. And he gets invited to, he gets invited to dinners from, by like JD bands and he, he talks about how like Peter Thiel invited him to dinner and he-

• 11:48Speaker 02

  Was he on the island, though?

• 11:50Danny Jones?

  Tim?

• 11:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:50Danny Jones?

  Probably, probably, who knows?

• 11:52Speaker 02

  I don't think he was.

• 11:53Danny Jones?

  No, he wasn't.

• 11:54Speaker 02

  Joking.

• 11:55Danny Jones?

  He, um, he will purposely not go to these events because he knows that they're trying to get him to parties and dinners just so he won't talk shit about them, right? So like, he purposely like, doesn't do any of that stuff. He's just, he's just, you know, a rogue commentator. Like, he, he refuses to be a part of any of those circles, just so he has the freedom to like, just call it like he sees it, which is really refreshing to see.

• 12:24Speaker 02

  I get it. Um, but yeah, man, I, this stuff has kept me busy, you know, uh, not all this other crazy stuff we're talking about. I don't really write about that, but, uh, just, yeah, it's from purely a national security perspective, there's so much stuff going on all the time.

• 12:41Danny Jones?

  And real briefly, just give people your quick background with your third, uh, Ranger Battalion, right?

• 12:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, a million years ago, I served in the army. Uh, I was, yeah, I served in the Ranger Regiment and Special Forces, then got into journalism, you know, probably like 13, 14 years ago at this point.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  And so I write investigative journalism with my colleague Sean Naylor, who's been on the show. And we have a Substack that's called The High Side, um, and we publish a lot of articles about the special operations and the intelligence community. That's sort of our main focus.

• 13:19Danny Jones?

  Yep, I've been ripping through it for the last couple of days, man. Incredible shit. Like, you, you guys are really getting the stuff that like, doesn't boil up to the very like, top headlines of all, like, the mainstream stuff. You guys are really like, down, like, turning under rocks, like, figuring out, like, the, the nitty gritty of what's going on.

• 13:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there, there's so much, or I'm sorry, there's so little of that type of reporting on the intelligence community and, and the special operations community. It, it really takes a long time to write that kind of stuff. Um, it, it, there's really only a half dozen of us in the country. Um, I'm sorry if that sounds a little pretentious, but there, there aren't many of us that really work in this field, I feel like. Maybe you could add a couple of people to that, but you can almost count it on one hand.

• 14:03Danny Jones?

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• 15:20Danny Jones?

  Like your, your job as a journalist and working on these stories. How many people, when it comes, like when it comes to sources, how many sources do you rely on? In or out of the government, military, or CIA, what have you?

• 15:36Speaker 02

  I mean, it's a combination of people who are still inside the system and people who are not.

• 15:41Danny Jones?

  Got it. And I'm sure the people that are not still have connections inside, right?

• 15:46Speaker 02

  Yes. I mean, they're all, you know, if you're using them as a source, it's because they have some sort of connection.

• 15:50Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right.

• 15:52Speaker 02

  You know, personal or by affiliation or whatever the case may be.

• 15:58Speaker 02

  Each of these stories we work on has sort of a different origin story, the way that I come to sources and the reason why I start working on a story. They're all a little different. The one we did about Havana syndrome, for instance.

• 16:12Danny Jones?

  Incredible. It was like a movie.

• 16:14Speaker 02

  It's crazy, isn't it? It's a wild story. And Sean and I worked for probably the better part of a year or more than a year on that. And I got introduced to the former CIA officer who is known by many as Patient Zero. The first guy that was struck by Havana syndrome in Cuba in 2016. And I went and visited him and his family, who they live in a very remote place. That's all I'll say about that. I went out and spent like a day and a half with them. And I wanted to see if there was more reporting that can be done on this topic. Havana syndrome was at that time and still is controversial.

• 16:57Speaker 02

  So of course I'm digging on that to see if there's more that can be written about it or should be written about.

• 17:02Danny Jones?

  High level for people that aren't aware of it. Just explain what it is.

• 17:06Speaker 02

  It's a, I mean, it's a story that sounds nuts, but it's true.

• 17:13Speaker 02

  We had a small CIA station in Havana, Cuba around 2016 during the Obama administration. We were normalizing relations with the Cubans. And the CIA decided to get a little bit more aggressive in the, in how they recruited sources. That they're going to start approaching more people in Cuba and trying to do more recruiting.

• 17:36Speaker 02

  Uh, one day, this source of mine, his name is Adam in the article we wrote, which is not his real name. The CIA won't let him use his real name. You know, publicly in association with the organization. Yeah.

• 17:50Danny Jones?

  Is that common?

• 17:51Speaker 02

  Uh, I would not say it's common, no. Most people have their cover rolled back and they'll say, I, hey, I'm, you know, Joe Smith, and I was in the CIA.

• 18:01Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 18:02Speaker 02

  This is sort of a unique situation.

• 18:04Danny Jones?

  So he's not allowed to publicly?

• 18:06Speaker 02

  Say.

• 18:07Danny Jones?

  Like be in front of a camera and say he worked for the CIA?

• 18:10Speaker 02

  Uh, he cannot say his real name.

• 18:13Danny Jones?

  Oh, he can just not say his real name. So he can have a fake name. Oh, hey, I worked for the CIA.

• 18:17Speaker 02

  He can say, I'm Adam and I worked for the CIA.

• 18:20Danny Jones?

  I understand.

• 18:21Speaker 02

  I know the laws and the rules are kind of silly. Um, and I don't really know who they're protecting or aimed at protecting at times. Um, but he was, uh, uh, went home at the end of a day, uh, while he was in Havana. Was, uh, laying down on his couch, I believe it was, uh, watching It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia on his laptop. And suddenly he had this like loud noise that he started getting barraged with. Um, he described it as it's like sticking a number two pencil in your ear. It hurt that badly. Uh, it went on through the night. Uh, he had, um, blood coming from the ears, blood coming from the nose when he woke up.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  Um, and, uh, that went off and on, you know, and, and he would be second guessing himself at certain times like, oh, you know, the Cubans have bugs, the how the homes they're staying in are bugged. They know that. But you're sort of thinking like, oh, maybe they're listening in on me or something. That's all it is. So it kind of like ignored it at first, but it got worse and worse. And then other people in the embassy started coming forward.

• 19:27Speaker 02

  With very similar symptoms, with a very similar story to Adams. And that's when he realized like this is systemic, like this is something that's being done against us deliberately. And I can say that I know through sourcing that the Cubans were working with the Russians to do this. That they were pulsing these CIA officials with very quick pulses of microwaves, like hundreds or thousands of pulses a second that creates a sort of cumulative effect inside the human cranium. And it leads to vestibular issues, a lot of symptoms that have similarities to traumatic brain injuries. So people having vertigo, headaches.

• 20:11Speaker 02

  And from the time that this started in 2016 in Cuba, it then sort of exploded globally. You started having people at the embassy in Austria, the embassy in Beijing, having these problems. We have stuff happening in Vietnam, Indonesia, India.

• 20:29Danny Jones?

  What about Moscow?

• 20:31Speaker 02

  Yes, Mark Palomaropoulos, which is his real name, he's allowed to use, he got hit in Moscow. He went to Russia on a sort of official trip. So the Russians know he's a CIA officer.

• 20:44Danny Jones?

  Declared, right?

• 20:45Speaker 02

  Declared, and he's going there to do liaison. They're gonna have a meeting. I don't know what the meeting was on some sort of cooperation, probably counterterrorism stuff. He went there and he got hit in his hotel room, got blasted.

• 21:01Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  And he's still dealing with the effects of that today. So this thing went global. And our government has lied through its teeth about it. They have gaslit the survivors about it. All sorts of really nasty stuff that has gone on. I mean, that article we wrote is pretty extensive. But I'm here to say. I know Havana syndrome is real. When you cut through all the lies and all the bullshit, something was really done to these people and our government failed to respond to it in a timely or meaningful manner. In fact, they're still trying to cover it up to this day. And this next part is a little bit of speculation because no one really knows

• 21:47Speaker 02

  why our government has worked so hard to bury this, other than maybe career incentives to just make a scandal.

• 21:55Danny Jones?

  I mean, right. We already let MKUltra out. What's?

• 21:58Speaker 02

  And that's different. I mean, we were doing unethical testing in that case.

• 22:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah, testing innocent people with drugs.

• 22:04Speaker 02

  Right. And in this case, it's our people being hit and targeted by a foreign adversary, and we're hiding that.

• 22:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  So the speculation, when I talk to CIA folks, is that essentially it became a personnel issue in the sense that there were already CIA officers telling their bosses, like, you know, they're slated to get deployed to, not deployed, but stationed in Kazakhstan, in, you know, wherever, wherever it is, in Mombasa. But the CIA guy who was just there came back blasted, microwaved out of his mind. And so this guy is seeing that and his wife is seeing it and his wife's like, we're not going there. Are you crazy? So this had the

• 22:52Speaker 02

  potential to shut down CIA human intelligence operations globally. If we just could not work out of embassies anymore, if we could just not send American spies abroad anymore. Because this weapon is very interesting in that it's not an assassination weapon. You're not killing someone. So you're not going over that threshold to lethal operations. But what you are doing is you are rendering, and I'm sorry for the term, I mean, but they'll tell you themselves, it renders you mentally incompetent. Like you can't remember anything. You can't do your job anymore. So what you're doing by hitting people with this weapon is you're taking chess pieces off the board, one by one. They can't be deployed. They can't go anywhere. They can't work as intelligence officers.

• 23:37Danny Jones?

  Cause you're creating this deterrent where the people that are aware of it, they don't want to

• 23:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 23:41Danny Jones?

  Travel anywhere.

• 23:41Speaker 02

  Right. So one, one component of it is the actual physical attacks. And then there's another component that is like a psychological operation.

• 23:47Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 23:50Speaker 02

  And yeah, I, I mean, I'd really emphasize that, yeah, our government was and is lying about it and it is real. Um, I know it sounds like science fiction, but, um, there is a weapon that, uh, one of these microwave weapons was surreptitiously acquired by the US government. The Department of Defense was testing it and, uh, there was a recent reconsolidation of the committees that were investigating Havana syndrome and, uh, the Secretary of Defense, or the Secretary of War, as he prefers to be called, uh, Pete Hegseth, was initially, early on in this administration, pretty aggressive about wanting to get to the truth. Um, and then something changed and I don't know.

• 24:32Danny Jones?

  Ratcliffe is always really worried about a Kentucky Senate Senator.

• 24:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, listen, your guess is as good as mine with these people. Um, but yeah, the Havana syndrome was a really hard story to report on.

• 24:48Danny Jones?

  I bet.

• 24:49Speaker 02

  One of the most difficult ones I've ever worked on. I think Sean would tell you the same.

• 24:53Danny Jones?

  Well, we had those, you know, during like the Philadelphia experiments and all that, you know, when we were doing all those experiments with those types of weapons, right? Like we were experimenting on sailors on ships, right? With like beaming these weapons where they were, they're more like crowd control type weapons, right?

• 25:12Speaker 02

  Oh, right.

• 25:13Danny Jones?

  Where like a loud sound.

• 25:13Speaker 02

  L rad, uh, that, yeah, that exists.

• 25:15Danny Jones?

  L rad, right, right. Which is, you know, it's kind of similar, not exactly the same.

• 25:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 25:21Danny Jones?

  So do you think it's possible that we like, who do you think got this stuff first?

• 25:27Speaker 02

  I think the Russians invested heavily in microwave weapons in a way that we didn't. And I've been told the Russians tend to use technology we have, but in different ways than we would. So I think the, yes, that the Russians got interested in directed energy a lot sooner than we did and have pursued it more aggressively than we have. However, I did another story about how we have a somewhat similar weapon.

• 25:59Speaker 02

  It's the guys that use it call it the behavior adjustment device.

• 26:04Danny Jones?

  I love it.

• 26:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:05Danny Jones?

  Perfect.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  It's, it comes in like a Pelican hard case. You open it up, it has a control unit, a battery and a dish that's a little bit bigger than a tambourine. So it looks sort of similar to the LRAD. And what that does is it beams microwaves over a hundred feet. And what it's designed to do, the way we use the technology, the idea behind it, and I don't have any accounts of us actually using it in real life.

• 26:34Speaker 02

  Just, just some rumors that guys maybe flipped it on in Iraq. But yeah, maybe. But I do know people who have deployed with it and know how it works and what it does. And so the idea being that if you had terrorists hiding in a safe house or something like that, you would bombard them with these microwaves, it would make them very uncomfortable. And that would induce them to do one of two things, get them, blast them out of the safe house, get them up and moving, and now you can follow them, see where they're going. Or to get them up on comms, so they start making phone calls, which then can be intercepted. So again, the behavior adjustment device.

• 27:15Speaker 02

  So we have something similar, but it doesn't work the way the Russians use it. And we didn't build it to do what the Russians have used their weapon for.

• 27:24Danny Jones?

  So we haven't done, there's no accounts or any testimony of anyone ever doing the same thing that the Cubans did to our people, like beaming it into an embassy and trying to.

• 27:36Speaker 02

  Not, not that I. I've heard.

• 27:37Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 27:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I haven't. And that there could be something out there that I don't know about. That's quite possible, but so far, no, I haven't heard any.

• 27:45Danny Jones?

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• 28:28Danny Jones?

  It's more of a consistent, steady drive throughout the day. And I love that it keeps things natural. Mars Men is made in the USA, third party tested, and it comes with a 90 day money back guarantee. And for a limited time, our listeners can get 50% off for life, plus free shipping and three free gifts at mengotomars.com when you use the code Danny. That's M E N G O T O M A R S dot com for 50% off and three free gifts. When you check out with the code Danny. And it's also available on Amazon. After your purchase, they're going to ask where you heard about them and please support our show and let them know we sent you. What ended up happening with Adam and the other? The story starts out where they're sitting in front of a hotel or they're sitting in front of a diner and they're getting someone's taking photos of them. And you track this person back to a foreign country.

• 29:14Danny Jones?

  This person literally is taking photos like an overt, some sort of overt intimidation tactic.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, harassing surveillance.

• 29:20Danny Jones?

  Harassing surveillance, right.

• 29:22Speaker 02

  And that was in Philadelphia. So that's a big part of the story that we broke that had not been reported before is that when these guys came home from Cuba and other places and they started going for treatment at UPenn, seeing vestibular rehabilitation specialists and things like this. They came under really intense surveillance here in the United States. A lot of them had break-ins into their hotel rooms, into their private residences.

• 29:51Danny Jones?

  From Cuba?

• 29:54Speaker 02

  In some cases, there may have been some traces back to Cuba. This is an interesting thing about the, you know, the modern day version of espionage is that espionage is happening on the gig economy in a lot of ways.

• 30:07Danny Jones?

  Oh, my God.

• 30:08Speaker 02

  So it's like Uber drivers and DoorDash guys, and they may not even know what they're doing.

• 30:13Danny Jones?

  Or who they're working, right?

• 30:14Speaker 02

  Right. They're hired, like, they're like told, like, hey, go to the street corner, there's going to be some people there, take some pictures of them and leave, you know, whatever.

• 30:21Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 30:22Speaker 02

  So, yeah.

• 30:24Danny Jones?

  It's crazy.

• 30:25Speaker 02

  So you get like a lot of like Bangladeshis and, you know, people like this who probably don't know what they're doing, really. And, but some of these people definitely were pros, they knew what they were doing, that they were able to surreptitiously break into homes. And they would do like weird things. Again, it's harassing surveillance, so they did stuff like one-

• 30:45Danny Jones?

  Here in America.

• 30:46Speaker 02

  Here in America. One of these guys, they got his gun cases out of the attic. They took the cases, but left the guns.

• 30:54Danny Jones?

  That's fucking-

• 30:57Speaker 02

  And another case, they would take, you know, like the medication out of your medicine cabinet and throw it in your dishwasher. Stories like, you know, they would go into your closet and take all your jackets and shirts and turn them inside out and put them back on the hanger. Now, when you try to describe that kind of surveillance to people, what do you sound like? You sound like someone who's suffering from paranoid schizophrenia. It's very discrediting on the surface, right? Until you realize what's going on here.

• 31:27Danny Jones?

  This is that story in Annie Jacobson's book about Area 51, when the CIA pilots first started testing the jet planes over Nevada, they would bring the pilots would go up, the CIA pilots would go up in the jet planes with gorilla masks in the cockpit in case a civilian airplane got in visual distance of them, they'd wear the gorilla mask.

• 31:45Speaker 02

  That's awesome.

• 31:46Danny Jones?

  It's the same thing, right?

• 31:47Speaker 02

  That's awesome. Yeah, right. So if the pilot tries to describe what he saw, he sounds like a whack job.

• 31:51Danny Jones?

  Exactly.

• 31:52Speaker 02

  Can you imagine like a journalist publishing that in a newspaper, like, this is what the pilot says he saw?

• 31:56Danny Jones?

  Sure, buddy.

• 31:57Speaker 02

  Okay, dude.

• 31:58Danny Jones?

  Have another.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, John, I mean, I've heard that story, similar stories to that harassing surveillance before from John Kariaku. He said that he had some friends who were, uh, one of them was in the CIA, the wife was, and or the husband or the wife was CIA, was declared, they went to Israel, and the spouse, uh, decided to like continue their studies there, like so, so to like go to university or whatever. And, um, there was like three or four different occasions where they come home, the first time they came home, um, they were declared, they had shit in all the toilets, unflushed, like someone took a shit in every single toilet. And then it got so bad, like at the time they decided to leave, they came, they came home and somebody had like cut their dog's tail off and like bandaged it up and like left the tail in the middle of the floor.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  This happened in Israel?

• 32:48Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 32:49Speaker 02

  There must have been something going on politically that they were pissed, or the CIA was maybe doing something in another country even that pissed them off.

• 32:56Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 32:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. But I mean, they're not going to get that aggressive for no reason. Maybe dropping a deuce in the toilet is pretty benign, but you know, some of the others, yeah. I mean, in Cuba, they actually, the Cuban Intelligence Service, DGI, will actually put teams of psychologists on each CIA officer, and they work it. And they're, they basically just stay on that person and figure out what will break them.

• 33:23Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 33:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And, and it's different for different people because psychology is different. So if you have a pet, they might take it and throw it out in the rain, and you come home and your pet's out there on the brink of death reason, uh, they might pile up all your clothes in your living room and piss on them. Um, whatever it is, I mean, there is other thing, I've heard stories about like scorpions taped inside the person's clothes.

• 33:46Danny Jones?

  Oh my, in Cuba.

• 33:47Speaker 02

  In Cuba, yeah. Um, so they will do all kinds of things. I mean, they'll, they'll try different things, different techniques to see like what's going to break you.

• 33:55Danny Jones?

  How robust is Cuba's intelligence service right now?

• 33:58Speaker 02

  It's, it is and has been competent.

• 34:03Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 34:03Speaker 02

  Frighteningly competent for such a small country.

• 34:05Danny Jones?

  That's crazy.

• 34:06Speaker 02

  Most of the people who have been run against Cuban targets will tell you that DGI has it together. And it's interesting that the kind of recruitments they get when they recruit Americans, they get ideological recruitments, which is interesting because the CIA gets very few ideological recruitments. Usually it's like, hey, we'll let you come to America. We'll pay you some money in an escrow account, this kind of thing.

• 34:29Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 34:30Speaker 02

  But Cuba gets more of the true believers, people who are committed to the revolutionary cause.

• 34:37Danny Jones?

  Hmm, or anti-American cause.

• 34:39Speaker 02

  But, you know, on the other hand, DGI suffered a pretty catastrophic defeat. When their boys that were guarding Maduro got hosed by Delta Force. When they picked up Maduro, there's dozens of DGI paramilitary guys.

• 34:55Danny Jones?

  Oh, in Venezuela?

• 34:56Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. They went in and whacked them. Our guys went in and whacked them.

• 34:59Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 35:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:02Danny Jones?

  I heard a story that, not verified, this is more of a conspiracy theory, that Maduro was working with the CIA from the previous CIA, not the current CIA, but from the previous administration, that he was actually working with them as an asset, or somehow they had some sort of an agreement or whatever. And the conspiracy part of this is that when they went in to get him, it was not that hard, kind of got him to agree under the condition that when they get him here, the plan is when he goes on trial, Trump's gonna get him to admit that they used their software to steal the election in 2020 and get Trump a third term.

• 35:43Speaker 02

  I would not be surprised.

• 35:44Danny Jones?

  As exchange to let him go or get him a better sentence?

• 35:46Speaker 02

  If it came out that like Stephen Miller was trying to work that right now, I would not even be surprised. Like, that would not shock me. Do I believe that? No. I mean, it's hard to parse out like on the surface level of it, like was he an asset or I don't think he was. But is it possible that the CIA tried to approach Maduro and talk to him?

• 36:10Speaker 02

  You know, in my reporting and a lot of these stories, you know, one of the questions that comes out time and time again is should the CIA talk to terrorists? Really bad people. Sometimes people who have American blood on their hands. But look, if you want to infiltrate Al Qaeda or some similar organization, you can't go and talk to some choir boy. You have to go and talk to some bad people.

• 36:32Danny Jones?

  Of course.

• 36:33Speaker 02

  Because they know the bad guys. So there's this constant like push and pull of like, how far do we go? I worked on one story where the CIA was working on recruiting someone who's involved in the murder of Daniel Pearl, who is a journalist.

• 36:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 36:48Speaker 02

  Killed in Pakistan early in the war. But and they wanted to recruit this guy because they thought he could get them to Zawahiri, who's the number two guy under Bin Laden. So again, this is like, this is a very like real ethical and moral issue. And I would, I don't know what the answer is necessarily. I'd pose this to the American public. Would you be comfortable with us working with that guy?

• 37:12Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 37:13Speaker 02

  I, I, I mean, that's a tough decision to make, isn't it?

• 37:17Danny Jones?

  I don't, I don't think so. I, I think that you should have, I mean, in this world of covert operations that we live in, you know, you have to have people close to the source of our enemies and of the people who are trying to subvert us. Because I mean, if they're doing the same thing to us, we have to be doing the same thing. It's like a, it's this shadow war of espionage where we have to have as much intelligence as possible. And, you know, if we have people that are willing to get that close, then, then we should absolutely do that because it's better than, you know, just shooting everyone, I think.

• 37:57Speaker 02

  Right. Yeah. I mean, it's a balance. Um, and you know, I've, I told a friend of mine, I said, well, why don't you just recruit the guy? And then when you get what you want out of him, just drone strike him. He was like, no, we can't do that, dude. Like, what are you talking about?

• 38:13Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 38:13Speaker 02

  I did talk to a Marine Corps intelligence guys and military operates a little differently than the CIA, especially in a war zone.

• 38:20Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 38:21Speaker 02

  And they had a sort of recruited source who was fording with the bad guys again. And they kept him in play as long as he was useful. And then they did a strike on him once they were done with him.

• 38:31Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 38:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:33Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 38:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's the crazy. What is this? U.S. military tested device that may be tied to Havana syndrome syndrome on rats, sheep. Confidential source says. Oh, this was just this just came out. Was this based on your stuff?

• 38:47Speaker 02

  No, I don't. I don't think so.

• 38:48Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 38:49Speaker 02

  Um.

• 38:50Danny Jones?

  60 Minutes, huh? Let's hear it.

• 38:52Speaker 02

  While they're still around.

• 38:54Danny Jones?

  Right?

• 38:55Speaker 02

  Sorry, man.

• 38:58Speaker 03

  Three independent sources from different agencies tell us that undercover Homeland Security agents purchased a miniaturized microwave weapon from a complex Russian criminal network. It's classified. We didn't see it, but it has been described to us. We are told it doesn't look anything like a gun. It's designed to be concealed and small enough to be carried by a person. It is silent and doesn't create heat like a microwave oven. Our sources say the device is programmable for different scenarios and can be operated by remote control. The range of the beam is several hundred feet. It can penetrate windows

• 39:41Speaker 03

  and drywall. The vital components were made in Russia. Our sources say the key is not the hardware, but the software. The programming shapes a unique electromagnetic wave that rises and falls abruptly and pulses rapidly.

• 40:02Speaker 04

  Pulsed microwave radiation?

• 40:04Speaker 03

  Just what Dr. David Relman's investigations predicted.

• 40:08Speaker 02

  I've interviewed him.

• 40:09Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 40:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:10Danny Jones?

  What's his story?

• 40:12Speaker 02

  Uh, he is one of these guys who's like super smart. Um, you know, a clinical doctor, uh, but also someone who studies, you know, the high level science and he like bounces between private sector and like White House. Like I think, uh, during the Biden administration, he was actually at the White House working on this issue.

• 40:32Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 40:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:33Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 40:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, he knows his stuff.

• 40:35Danny Jones?

  Keep going, Steve.

• 40:36Speaker 04

  And what the Russians spoke about was the importance of the energy being pulsed in order to have biological effects on humans. When you produce pulses like this, you can actually stimulate electrically active tissue like brain tissue and the heart for that matter, mimicking what the brain normally does, but now you're driving it with your pulses from the outside.

• 41:00Speaker 03

  An ideal stealth weapon.

• 41:03Speaker 04

  Ideal, ideal, because literally the person feels as if this is in my head.

• 41:13Speaker 03

  Our confidential sources tell us the still classified weapon has been tested in a US military lab for more than a year. Tests on rats and sheep show injuries consistent with those seen in humans. Also, as a separate part of the investigation, security camera videos have been collected that show Americans being hit. The videos are classified, but they were described to us. In one, a camera in a restaurant in Istanbul captured two FBI agents on vacation, sitting at a table with their families.

• 41:53Speaker 03

  A man with a backpack walks in and suddenly everyone at the table grabs their head as if in pain.

• 42:01Danny Jones?

  Oh my god.

• 42:02Speaker 03

  Sources say another video comes from a stairwell in the US Embassy in Vienna. The stairs lead to a secure facility. In the video, two people on the stairs suddenly collapse. Three independent sources.

• 42:18Speaker 02

  That is a, that's, almost all of that is totally accurate to what I know. The only thing I would add a little bit to is the Istanbul story. So he's saying that-

• 42:29Danny Jones?

  They're at the table?

• 42:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. They were FBI agents in Istanbul with their families. So they were saying there that it was like a restaurant camera. It was a Turkish intelligence service, MIT, was making recordings. They were doing surveillance on these FBI guys as they're cruising around. And while they were doing that, these guys got hit with this microwave weapon. So the MIT guys, it seems inadvertently made a video-

• 42:57Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 42:58Speaker 02

  -of them hitting, and I'm told it's really bad, like the kids are freaking out and everything, yeah.

• 43:02Danny Jones?

  Oh god.

• 43:02Speaker 02

  So we knew that MIT had made this video.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  But they didn't want to give it up. So my understanding is that the NSA hacked into MIT and stole it.

• 43:18Danny Jones?

  No fucking way.

• 43:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 43:22Speaker 02

  But but otherwise, I mean, all the problems with, you know, the mainstream media and 60 Minutes or CBS. I mean, that's good journalism. That's it. That stuff matters.

• 43:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 43:31Speaker 02

  And I'm glad that, you know, they're out there doing it.

• 43:35Danny Jones?

  So the story is the guy with the backpack may have been the culprit for that. They said a guy with a backpack walked in and then all of a sudden, everyone at the table, the FBI agents and their kids started grabbing their hands.

• 43:46Speaker 02

  It could be. There's also three different generations of this weapon. They've refined it over the years. I'm told that the most recent one, the scary thing about it is, you know, remember Adam describing it as feeling like a number two pencil that is stuck in your ear. The newer one, you don't feel anything. You don't know that you're under attack.

• 44:07Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 44:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So you'll have those same sort of Havana syndrome effects, but you won't know when or where it even happened.

• 44:15Danny Jones?

  So all of a sudden you'll start to experience vertigo and memory loss.

• 44:19Speaker 02

  Right. Like Dr. Relman said, the perfect stealth weapon. Yeah.

• 44:25Danny Jones?

  Have you heard of the voice to skull or whatever?

• 44:27Speaker 02

  That's the Fray effect.

• 44:29Danny Jones?

  What's that?

• 44:30Speaker 02

  It was a Dr. Fray. I'm sorry that I can't remember the guy's full name. But they did experiments, and this is legit science where they beamed. They basically used some sort of beam to transmit someone's voice right into another person's head. And I, yeah, I've been told about it, but I I haven't studied it in depth.

• 44:53Danny Jones?

  So, okay, the guys who were the focus of your, your and Sean's piece on this. What sort of medical attention were they able to get? Were they able to get help with this?

• 45:06Speaker 02

  That was literally a fucking nightmare for those guys.

• 45:11Speaker 02

  As the CIA is in denial, but these guys are getting worse and worse, they end up sending them down to Dr. Hoffer. Down at, um, he's down in Miami.

• 45:23Danny Jones?

  I've heard of that guy, yeah.

• 45:24Speaker 02

  Um, he, he did, he did really good work. He was a good guy. Um, tried to help them out.

• 45:31Speaker 02

  He wanted to diagnose them with TBI. The CIA, I think, pushed to have them diagnosed with concussions because anything can cause a concussion. I mean, you can run into a wall and get a concussion, right? So it's a little more general.

• 45:46Speaker 02

  Eventually, they stopped the Havana victims from going to see Dr. Hoffer. In time, they finally got in with UPenn.

• 45:57Speaker 02

  UPenn also did really good work. Um, they studied them. They did a lot of, uh, a lot of like science on them, a lot of studying. And they put them in MRI machines and everything else. I spoke to this woman, uh, Dr. Verma, who, uh, did all the FMRI work on them. Um, it's really incredible. But then that ended and again, these guys are sort of left hanging.

• 46:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 46:23Speaker 02

  There's an NHI study and this is where something that was unethical, if not illegal, happened. The CIA said, you have to participate in this NHI study, uh, to get treatment.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  You can't compel somebody to participate in a study, like we're going to hold your health over your life, right? And that, that study was subsequently shut down because of the ethical considerations. So, I mean, these guys, um, they suffered, you know, the, the term you hear nowadays is moral injury. All of these guys and women suffered significant moral injury from all of this. They expect the Russians to come at them. Everyone expects that, but they didn't expect the CIA to turn their back on them.

• 47:04Danny Jones?

  Right. How are they doing now with it? Are they, are their symptoms getting any better or is this is still terrible?

• 47:09Speaker 02

  Not better, but the vestibular rehabilitation, uh, does help them as, as they have described it to me. It helps them learn to live with their injuries. So the, the effects don't really go away, but they learn to compensate for them better. There, there is a, um, it does seem that recovery is possible through this vestibular rehabilitation.

• 47:31Danny Jones?

  It's always crazy when you hear stories about this kind of stuff coming out in the news, you know, because like before you hear real stories like what you did, like half the people dismiss them as like, oh, okay, sure. Like conspiracy theory or whatever, like.

• 47:43Speaker 02

  And there are a lot of people out there who are mentally ill, who feel that they're being stalked and bombarded with microwaves. And you know, those people.

• 47:53Danny Jones?

  Which is, which is great for the CIA because then they're used, they can use those people to write off everybody.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, basically. And those people don't like me and they don't like the Havana victims really either. Because we don't confirm their worldview, I guess.

• 48:11Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 48:13Speaker 02

  But we have seen, you know, speaking of like spooky weapons, on the Maduro raid, you remember President Trump talking about the discombobulator ray?

• 48:23Danny Jones?

  Yep, I do remember that.

• 48:24Speaker 02

  So I've talked to a bunch of people about this and I haven't found anyone who can confirm that we used any sort of novel ray gun on this operation. We do have certain directed energy weapons. We've talked about the LRAD. We talked about the behavior adjustment device. You know, we have some things, but we didn't use it on this operation because it would have been really hard for us to just blast those Cuban paramilitary guys and not hit the Delta operators that are coming in and storming the house. You'd have like a sort of fratricide. So we didn't do that. And then another thing came out when we rescued that weapon system officer out of Iran.

• 49:04Danny Jones?

  Oh, the murmur ghost?

• 49:06Speaker 02

  Ghost murmur.

• 49:06Danny Jones?

  Ghost murmur.

• 49:07Speaker 02

  Total bullshit.

• 49:09Danny Jones?

  Is it really?

• 49:10Speaker 02

  Oh, God, yeah. So a lot of that.

• 49:12Danny Jones?

  Where did that story come from? Where did that story originate? I remember, I thought it was in the New York Post, but I think somebody asked.

• 49:18Speaker 02

  I think it was the Post.

• 49:19Danny Jones?

  Somebody asked one of the like Hagseth or Trump about it.

• 49:22Speaker 02

  I can tell you where it really originated was with Ratcliffe and his chogie boys.

• 49:26Danny Jones?

  Ratcliffe, that's who it was.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that's where the story originated. And it has a lot to do with, I don't want to blame the CIA institutionally, but the director, Ratcliffe, he tried to snag as much credit for that rescue operation as he could and blended his CIA into the narrative in the press. Remember I talked about source capture?

• 49:47Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 49:47Speaker 02

  That's why that's a problem. So he was out there showboating and spotlighting, trying to hog some media attention for himself. I'm told the task force guys, they're like actual soldiers who were involved in that rescue. I mean, soldiers, airmen, Navy SEALs, Air Force.

• 50:03Danny Jones?

  Did you talk to any of those dudes?

• 50:04Speaker 02

  I've talked to some people who may have been on the periphery of it. Uh, they're pissed that Radcliffe did this.

• 50:13Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 50:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, that he's like trying to sweep in and take credit for it. They're like, this is messed up, man. The.

• 50:19Danny Jones?

  How much involvement did CIA have in that?

• 50:21Speaker 02

  A little bit. So one of the things they did do, which I believe was helpful, was institute a PSYOP or a deception operation. And they did this using what's called a man in the middle attack. So if you have the enemy, the Iranians, in this case, they're communicating by radio, different elements, headquarters and a unit in the field, right? So what you can do, if you have the technology, is you can jam headquarters

• 50:49Speaker 02

  and then start transmitting to the unit on the ground as if you are the headquarters. Having Persian Farsi speakers masquerading as a CUDS Force commander, IRGC, or whoever it is, and like, your orders are to go here and do this and blah, blah, blah. So that's, that's a man in the middle attack. And they did that and convinced the Iranians that the pilot was going to be rescued along the coast, that he was somewhere down, down by the coast and we were maybe going to pick, pick him up on boats or something like that. So it diverted a lot of forces south towards the coast of Iran, towards the Persian Gulf. And I'm told that was at least somewhat helpful.

• 51:28Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. And wasn't there also like a, a huge amount of military planes that were sent out to go in different directions to divert them?

• 51:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, flying all over the place.

• 51:37Danny Jones?

  Like 150 planes, I heard, or something like that, combined with helicopters?

• 51:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, that.

• 51:42Danny Jones?

  That's what Trump said, right?

• 51:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I mean, it wouldn't surprise me at all. I think they mobilized everything to try to get this guy out. And they did, thank God.

• 51:52Speaker 02

  But I mean, it's a, it's a, that's a crazy story in of itself.

• 51:56Danny Jones?

  So where did this ghost murmur story come from? Where did it originate?

• 52:00Speaker 02

  Radcliffe and his boys.

• 52:03Danny Jones?

  So they were the first people to say it?

• 52:05Speaker 02

  They leaked it to the press.

• 52:07Danny Jones?

  They leaked it to the press and then the press got ahold of it and then they were asked about it.

• 52:11Speaker 02

  I see. There are heartbeat sensors like that's actually kind of like old, old ish technology. But the idea that you had a heartbeat sensor on a fucking drone at, you know, 15,000 feet and it's finding this one guy's heartbeat against all of the background of all of the people looking for him and everything else like, come on dude. Um, so yeah, there, there are some very novel technologies out there. Um, and we develop sometimes these very expensive bespoke technologies that don't really work in the field.

• 52:42Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 52:42Speaker 02

  They break down very quickly. We've had this problem with laser weapons and microwave weapons over the years. Um, but we do have some things that work.

• 52:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah. I mean, I can imagine the stuff that DARPA works on, you know, has been working on for years to try to like, create more resilient soldiers on the battlefield or to make the battlefield operations more effective. You know what I mean? A couple of weeks ago, I realized I was going through an entire can of nicotine pouches in like two days. My sleep was getting worse. My recovery was getting slower and I just couldn't figure out why. Until I picked up some of these Ultra pouches and I will tell you, the difference is incredible. Ultra gives me that same pouch experience I usually like. The burn, the little kick, the flavor, but without nicotine or caffeine. No jitters, no crash and no feeling wired at midnight. And my favorite part is they're packed with natural nootropics to help boost focus and improve mental clarity.

• 53:33Danny Jones?

  And what surprised me the most is how quick my body started to bounce back. Better sleep, better workouts and actual recovery happening again. And this month I'm really digging their blue Raz flavor. Nicotine messes with blood flow and stress hormones. Ultra does not. It's way smoother flow state, especially if pre-workout tends to over stimulate you. So I get to keep the habit without the vice holding me back. Ultra is the ultimate guilt free pouch, delivering instant focus and mental clarity without nicotine or caffeine. New customers can use code Danny to get 15% off at takeultra.com. That's T A K E U L T R A dot com for 15% off with the code Danny. After you purchase, they're going to ask where you heard about them and please help support the show by telling them we sent you.

• 54:18Danny Jones?

  Like I had this, we had this one guy on who was a, um, what was his background? I think he was a scientist. He was a scientist. That worked for DARPA and he was a neuroscientist and he was talking to us about real technology that's actually already in use.

• 54:38Danny Jones?

  At least being tested already where somebody in Washington can put on this like neural net over their head. And somebody in fucking Iran, Iran or Afghanistan or somewhere over there can also put on a neural net. And the person here can hijack their brain and like operate, do like a surgical operation on somebody in the field. So like a surgeon can take over your body on the other side of the world and perform surgery.

• 55:09Speaker 02

  Like automation.

• 55:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 55:11Speaker 02

  Like you're controlling a robot.

• 55:12Danny Jones?

  Like you're hijacking their fucking.

• 55:13Speaker 02

  And they, they had an experiment to try to do this.

• 55:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah, this guy was saying it's real. It's already being like, it's already being done. It's just not like fully like out of the bag yet.

• 55:22Speaker 02

  I don't know how, I'm not a scientist. I don't even know how that could be accomplished, but um, yeah, I mean, some, some weird things do exist.

• 55:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 55:31Speaker 02

  Uh, it is fun to look at some of the DARPA stuff that is like public and declassified. Things like upward falling payloads.

• 55:39Danny Jones?

  Well, I haven't heard of that.

• 55:40Speaker 02

  So like if you had something at the bottom of the ocean and it had like an airbag, you suddenly inflate it with oxygen. Now it's a payload that falls upwards. It's coming way up and when it hits the surface, it'll break above the surface.

• 55:54Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 55:55Speaker 02

  And it could potentially be picked up by an aircraft if it comes on a parachute or something like that.

• 56:00Danny Jones?

  What?

• 56:01Speaker 02

  That's, I mean, you can look this up. I don't.

• 56:03Danny Jones?

  Talking about bombs?

• 56:04Speaker 02

  Uh, no, I don't think it would be a bomb. I think it would be more like if you put a recording device on an undersea fiber optic cable. Maybe you could use it to do something like get the recordings off the bottom of the ocean.

• 56:18Danny Jones?

  Okay, I see.

• 56:19Speaker 02

  Um, but I mean, I just read the release from DARPA. I don't know if this thing was ever, how far the experiment got, how uh, you know, if it was ever operationalized. I don't know.

• 56:29Danny Jones?

  Have you seen the DARPA dolphins? That like doing sabotage on undersea cables and stuff?

• 56:34Speaker 02

  Oh, those aren't DARPA. That's the marine mammal program. The Navy has that.

• 56:37Danny Jones?

  Oh, that's the Navy?

• 56:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Marine mammal program. And I've looked into that a couple of different times. And those guys are surprisingly closed lipped about the program. Which is funny, because I can get all this stuff out of all these like CIA people that the marine mammal program is, I have yet to crack that nut. But I have heard some pretty funny stories from Navy divers who get assigned to that unit for a little while.

• 57:06Speaker 02

  One guy was telling me about, they had this big dolphin. They called him Half Dead Fred. Yeah. And Fred didn't give a shit. And he said too, he's like, get this, all this flipper stuff out of your head. That these dolphins, like, they will grab you by the wrist and drag you under 25 feet of water, just to fuck with you. Like, just to see what you're made of, you know?

• 57:30Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 57:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 57:32Danny Jones?

  Why do they call him Half Dead Fred?

• 57:33Speaker 02

  Because he didn't give a shit. And like, I think he'd just like roll over on his back and like wave a flipper at them when they told him to do stuff. It's like giving them the bird. And Half Dead Fred disappeared during training one time. It was mating season. And he didn't come back for like three months. He was totally AWOL.

• 57:52Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 57:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, Half Dead Fred. And the other interesting thing is, they did deploy the marine mammal program during the Gulf War in 1990. And I'm

• 58:03Danny Jones?

  That long ago?

• 58:04Speaker 02

  And I'm told a couple of the dolphins died, actually.

• 58:07Danny Jones?

  I'm sure.

• 58:07Speaker 02

  Because it's something to do with the ocean conditions. And a couple of them didn't make it. I don't know if they're over in the Persian Gulf now, but actually, all this stuff going on with the Straits of Hormuz would be like tailor made for that program, because the dolphins are trained to go out and identify obstacles underwater.

• 58:26Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 58:27Speaker 02

  They're to go out there

• 58:28Danny Jones?

  Spy dolphins.

• 58:28Speaker 02

  Find, find the mines, find all that kind of crap and identify it. So then Navy EOD divers would go in and dispose of it. And then our ships could go through. So yeah, the dolphins could definitely do that job, I think.

• 58:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it makes me just like wonder, you know, maybe they had dolphins fucking bomb that Nord Stream pipeline, you know?

• 58:51Speaker 02

  I have read that we do not have like a, well, there's the story about how they fitted them with nose cones at one point that would shoot out like a spike to kill Soviet divers. That's a story that's floating around out there. But as far as using the dolphins for offensive operations, they, they did some experimenting with the dolphins and having them like lay mines, like go find the enemy submarine and put a mine on it.

• 59:18Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 59:19Speaker 02

  And what they found is that the dolphins can like, it's wild, like through echolocation, I guess, they can identify like metallic and non-metallic metals, like they're very sensitive. But the one thing the dolphins couldn't do is identify the difference between the hull of a Russian submarine and the hull of an American submarine. So my understanding is we never really developed that program because we're afraid of what would happen if we, if we set them loose, they might come back at us.

• 59:47Danny Jones?

  Right. I mean, think about if we could figure out a way, or if the smartest people that are working in the government could figure out a way to communicate with the dolphins, because we know they're hyper intelligent, right? Like the barrier is the, like,

• 59:58Speaker 02

  They are, yeah.

• 59:59Danny Jones?

  How like,

• 1:00:00Speaker 02

  Their language is very complex.

• 1:00:01Danny Jones?

  If they could figure out the language barrier, to figure out how like to tap into their mind somehow to like see through their, I don't know.

• 1:00:09Speaker 02

  There's, there's an article, I mean, maybe this is neither here nor there. There's an article, I think in the Atlantic a couple of years ago about marine biologists looking at using AI to decode the language of whales.

• 1:00:22Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  So like, could we, could we talk to a sperm whale?

• 1:00:25Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:00:26Speaker 02

  And, and what would it say to us? You know? And I, I think, you know, what it, just, just me bullshitting, of course. But I mean, I think that if we could talk to a sperm whale, it would probably tell us, fuck, man, it's cold down here. Like, like, it would probably be pretty disappointing what it would tell us. You know what I mean?

• 1:00:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah. It's just so interesting how long we've been interested in trying to use animals to help us in fucking geopolitical feats. Like, there was that story that got John Lilly, I don't know if you've heard of him, who got a grant from NASA back in the eighties, I think it was, to try to work on this, this communication between dolphins and humans. He was literally paid by NASA to figure this out and he was like, um, he was in Miami, I think, when he was doing this and he was cutting open the heads of dolphins, putting probes in their brains, keeping them in these little tanks and like sinister experiments. John Lilly ended up, uh, going off the wheels. He went off the tracks, like went crazy because he was addicted to ketamine and, um, thought he was talking to aliens. He thought he was communicating with like

• 1:01:31Danny Jones?

  an alien species, dude. He went totally crazy, but like he was doing legit research for NASA, um, way back in the day. This was like during the time of Flipper, like when they were actually making the Flipper show. Yeah. Oh, that was the seventies. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, dude, that shit's wild. Um, for the Strait of Hormuz though, I heard that there's all kinds of like underwater reconnaissance shit going on under the water there. I heard they have like, I heard that the Iranians have like port, like, um, like mini little portals inside, under the water in the rocks where they

• 1:02:12Danny Jones?

  can like deploy autonomous, um, underwater drones and shit. Have you heard anything about that?

• 1:02:18Speaker 02

  No, I haven't. I would be surprised if they're that sophisticated. Yeah. Um, they seem pretty good at keeping us at bay with ballistic missiles and so on. Um, but I'm sure that there's that they've put, um, underwater mines and other underwater obstacles and that we're down there trying to find that stuff. Yeah. Would not surprise me at all.

• 1:02:34Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. Yeah. It's, uh, it's insane, man. It's, it's just like trying to follow the whole Iran war thing has been difficult because it's just like, there's some new twist happening every week and it just, by and large, it just doesn't seem like, correct me if I'm wrong, that we're anywhere close to a winning situation with this thing. It seems like every, every week that goes by, we have less opportunities to back out.

• 1:03:03Speaker 02

  Correct. Uh, yeah. I mean, the problem is that there isn't, um, a plan that's linked to any sort of strategic end state. You know, the plan was, well, we're gonna bomb them. Okay. Well, that doesn't work. What are we gonna do? We're gonna bomb them some more. All right. That's not working. So what do we do? We'll drop some more bombs, you know, and it just goes on and on. I think that, you know, some of these. Other operations that we've talked about during the Trump one administration, there's the Soleimani assassination and the Baghdadi raid. Then during this administration, there was the Maduro raid. There was the first Operation Midnight Hammer, the first bombing run in Iran. There's really no repercussions against us for that.

• 1:03:45Danny Jones?

  No, they never retaliated.

• 1:03:47Speaker 02

  And I think that the president kind of learned the wrong lesson from all of those operations.

• 1:03:53Danny Jones?

  So we killed, so in Trump one, Trump killed Soleimani with a drone strike, right?

• 1:03:57Speaker 02

  Yes, that's right.

• 1:03:59Danny Jones?

  And Soleimani was like a top general or something?

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  He was the head of Quds Force. He was like the head Iranian paramilitary leader and like the kind of critical link between Iran and their proxies like Hezbollah.

• 1:04:11Danny Jones?

  And what was Iran's response?

• 1:04:14Speaker 02

  Nothing that I know of.

• 1:04:15Danny Jones?

  Nothing, no retaliation at all?

• 1:04:17Speaker 02

  No, not to my knowledge.

• 1:04:19Danny Jones?

  And Midnight Hammer also?

• 1:04:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I mean, there's some other stories. There's some Iran stuff that I'm working on that I can't really go into detail on right now because it's very much still a work in progress because this stuff is still unfolding before our eyes. I would just say this highly enriched uranium issue is not going away. Something's going to be done there at some point and not necessarily by us, but it's going to be addressed. So I'd keep an eye on that.

• 1:04:50Danny Jones?

  What do you mean it's going to be addressed? The highly enriched uranium?

• 1:04:53Speaker 02

  Well, the highly enriched uranium that Iran has created, something supposedly somewhere around 300 kilograms.

• 1:05:00Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:05:01Speaker 02

  Now, 300 kilograms is a lot, but you only need a couple milligrams to make a really big problem, meaning a dirty bomb or something like that. Right now, that stuff is in underground facilities that we bombed. So they're kind of, the entrances appear to be caved in, covered in rubble. But we, as Americans and, you know, the Iranians too, for that matter, I mean, we're not just going to stand by forever and leave this stuff sitting out there because it's a major national security issue. Like that'll come back to haunt us at some point. Now, I'm not necessarily saying the United States needs to go in and remove it, but something needs to happen.

• 1:05:46Speaker 02

  It can't be left unsecured out in the desert indefinitely.

• 1:05:49Danny Jones?

  In Iran.

• 1:05:50Speaker 02

  In Iran.

• 1:05:53Danny Jones?

  So what do we do? Like, they've been enriching this uranium for how long?

• 1:06:01Speaker 02

  Well, according to Netanyahu, they've been enriching this uranium since I was, you know, three years old.

• 1:06:07Danny Jones?

  Well, yeah, I mean, he's been saying that we're weeks, months away from a nuke forever.

• 1:06:11Speaker 02

  But they've been, they've been working on the, I think what Iran is doing and has been doing is trying to maintain kind of a posture of like, we're not creating a nuclear bomb, but we're retaining the capacity to create one anytime we want.

• 1:06:28Danny Jones?

  But wasn't there like two big intelligence assessments done recently on Iran's capability, nuclear capabilities? Two big intelligence assessments where they got like all the top intelligence people in the US to convene and do a whole assessment of Iran's capabilities and they all came back both times that they do, they do not have the enrichment to create a nuclear weapon.

• 1:06:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, yeah, it doesn't seem that they were close to creating a nuclear weapon. Like I said, I think they were interested in retaining the ability to plausibly threaten creating one. But I mean, I think this whole Iran thing is just a huge boondoggle myself, but yeah, others may disagree.

• 1:07:11Danny Jones?

  I also heard that, that pilot story could have been a cover.

• 1:07:19Speaker 02

  I've heard this story, yeah.

• 1:07:20Danny Jones?

  For trying to get some, get some uranium out of there?

• 1:07:23Speaker 02

  No, it did happen fairly close to one of those facilities. And they may have even executed on like some like contingency plans that were set up for that, like, like that, that improvised airstrip that they used out in the farm, that maybe might've been something that they were looking at for that operation and they ended up using it for this instead. And like, we gotta get this guy out of here now. That's a possibility. I can't say I know that for a fact, but I'm just saying it makes sense. They may have used some of those plans. But no, we were legitimately trying to rescue that guy. We weren't making a play for the uranium.

• 1:08:05Danny Jones?

  Okay. And in the plane, though, two guys were in the plane.

• 1:08:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:08:10Danny Jones?

  The Wizzo is the one that got rescued. What happened to the other guy?

• 1:08:13Speaker 02

  He got rescued too, but he got rescued like right away, like a couple of hours afterwards.

• 1:08:17Danny Jones?

  The other guy was just there.

• 1:08:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. The, um, search and rescue team came in. They had some, those guys had some balls go in there. Yeah, by themselves, basically, where their like support aircraft were struggling to catch up with them. They went in there and they pulled that guy right out.

• 1:08:31Danny Jones?

  In helicopters.

• 1:08:32Speaker 02

  In helicopters. Um, and the other guy, the Wizzo, the backseater in the aircraft. As I understand it, he received some pretty substantial injuries when he came down. And he was late, apparently, in getting the authentication code out over the radio.

• 1:08:53Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:08:53Speaker 02

  To authenticate that to headquarters, you know, this is me. I'm in the wind. Come get me. Uh, and it was probably because of his injuries. Um, once they did identify him, positively identify him, the whole operation, all that machinery launched.

• 1:09:09Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:09:09Speaker 02

  They went out there and, um, basically that, you know, the air force erected like a, a grid square around where that guy was. And like one guy described it to me as like a fuck around and find out square. Like any Iranians try to come in that square, we're just gonna like blast them off the face of the earth.

• 1:09:28Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:09:29Speaker 02

  So, yeah, we were like smoking dudes around him. Um, there were some like paramilitary guys that were like getting pretty close to him. Um, and then of course, uh, you know, little bird pilots got, got over there with, uh, the operators and rescued him and got him back to the improvised airstrip, which a whole bunch of fun erupted there too, when the aircraft got stuck in, in the soil.

• 1:09:52Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:09:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:54Danny Jones?

  I heard that dude like scaled like seven, like a huge mountain or something like that.

• 1:09:57Speaker 02

  I think he went up a ridgeline. Yeah.

• 1:09:59Danny Jones?

  Huge ridgeline.

• 1:10:00Speaker 02

  Which makes a lot of sense that he was using the terrain to his advantage and making it much harder for the Iranians to get to him.

• 1:10:06Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:10:07Speaker 02

  As you can imagine, if he's out in the open desert, like, yeah, they're gonna catch up with you.

• 1:10:10Danny Jones?

  This, this is, I bet, I wonder if Mad Dog would know this, but I wonder like how many? NOX do we have inside of Iran?

• 1:10:21Speaker 02

  So this is a separate story that Sean and I just published with our friend, a colleague, Zach Dorfman, about nonofficial cover people. And you're talking about Jim Lawler. He knows way more about Iran than I do.

• 1:10:36Danny Jones?

  He's an Iranian expert.

• 1:10:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, he knows way more than I do about Iran. So yeah, you should ask him.

• 1:10:40Danny Jones?

  I read your article about the hard NOX this morning. It's amazing.

• 1:10:45Speaker 02

  So the CIA does not have a lot of NOX. I'll just say that. Zach Dorfman wrote a book about the CIA NOC program, which is forthcoming. I have nothing further to say about it. You can have Zach on here if you want and when the book is published.

• 1:11:03Danny Jones?

  And okay.

• 1:11:04Speaker 02

  He's going to have some pretty cool stories coming out of that. But as he was researching that book, he came across some information also about the special operations, JSOC NOC program. And he started telling me about what he had. And I was like, huh, okay. And he's like, yeah, this doesn't fit into my book. So maybe we can turn it into an article. I was like, okay, well, let me see what I can find out. And fairly quickly, I pulled up, you know, four, I think, four different sources who had strong firsthand knowledge about this subject. I guess what, you know, for the listeners, we should point out what a NOC is.

• 1:11:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah. What is a NOC and why are they important?

• 1:11:49Speaker 02

  So there's two types of cover. There's official cover and nonofficial cover. Official cover is when you are an intelligence operative of some sort, but you are being put under credentials as a State Department person or, I mean, whatever the case may be. You could even be like, say you're a Delta Force commando that's trained to be a spy. They could put you in a regular army infantry unit, and that would be official cover.

• 1:12:19Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:12:20Speaker 02

  You're still presenting yourself as an American soldier.

• 1:12:22Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:12:23Speaker 02

  This happened, I remember stories about Delta Force guys in the Balkans doing this, where they would be like, you know, the general's PSD, or they would be like a liaison officer to the Germans, but really they're there for an intelligence operation. That kind of stuff happens all the time. And non-official cover is when you're being placed under a commercial cover. Like you're working for a company, Fortune 500 company. Maybe you're working in construction or mining or logistics or whatever's going to get you where you need to go. The big difference, I mean, there are a couple of big differences. It's a lot harder to put somebody under non-official cover, under a plausible cover.

• 1:13:08Speaker 02

  When you're taking, and one of the things in our article that comes out of it is it's really hard to take somebody who was a SEAL or a Ranger or whoever and make them a non-official cover guy because their entire life is about working in a team.

• 1:13:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:13:21Speaker 02

  Right. And now they're having to be a lone wolf, which sounds sexy.

• 1:13:25Danny Jones?

  You're a civilian not attached to any government.

• 1:13:28Speaker 02

  Sounds cool on paper, doesn't it? But the reality is that it's a very lonely life and high stress too. You know, you're assuming a lot of risk because another big difference here is that if you're under official cover and you get arrested in Russia even, you will be dubbed persona non grata by the Russian government and deported.

• 1:13:48Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:13:48Speaker 02

  You're sent home. You know, maybe you get a black eye when they pull you off the street, but you're going home, right? If you're a non-official cover and you're in a country like Russia or Iran especially, dude, you're done.

• 1:14:00Danny Jones?

  You're dead or you're in jail.

• 1:14:02Speaker 02

  You're, you're dead.

• 1:14:03Danny Jones?

  You're dead?

• 1:14:04Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. You are fucked. Capital F fucked.

• 1:14:07Danny Jones?

  So let me ask you this. Jonathan Pollard, what was his, what would you classify him as? Israeli spy?

• 1:14:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would classify him as a foreign intelligence asset.

• 1:14:20Danny Jones?

  So he wasn't a NOC?

• 1:14:22Speaker 02

  I, I don't believe so, no.

• 1:14:23Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:14:24Speaker 02

  For like for the Israelis, you mean?

• 1:14:25Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:14:27Speaker 02

  I am, if he, no, I don't, I don't, I'm not totally familiar with his case, but I don't believe he, he was, no, I think he was.

• 1:14:34Danny Jones?

  A NOC is somebody, so basically if you're a NOC and you get caught, the CIA is going to deny you 100%.

• 1:14:40Speaker 02

  100%, yeah.

• 1:14:41Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:14:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, the US government's going to say, we have no knowledge.

• 1:14:45Danny Jones?

  Got it. And.

• 1:14:49Danny Jones?

  Can a NOC also be like an agent, like a recruit?

• 1:14:53Speaker 02

  Um, so a NOC is a, uh, in, let's-

• 1:14:58Danny Jones?

  Or is this like a formally trained, somebody who's formally trained, like, uh, in America?

• 1:15:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:15:05Danny Jones?

  Right, to do, and then sent over somewhere?

• 1:15:08Speaker 02

  So they are actual, um, they are gonna be recruited either into the CIA or into the military. And then based on, a lot of times it's based on things like ethnicity, language ability, having multiple passports, et cetera, like somebody-

• 1:15:24Danny Jones?

  Incredible backstory, no holes in your history.

• 1:15:27Speaker 02

  Something, something that we can parlay, right, into this.

• 1:15:30Danny Jones?

  Cause this would be way easier just to recruit somebody in that country, right?

• 1:15:34Speaker 02

  And, and we do that. That's recruiting a foreign intelligence asset. But in this case, you're kind, you're putting them through that extensive training and then sending them overseas for a period of time to collect intelligence or set up logistics or whatever the case may be.

• 1:15:51Speaker 02

  So, yeah, we, we wrote this pretty long article about the JSOC program and, and, you know, some of the successes they've had and also some of the failures. You know, we talk about, um, the army putting NOCs into Iran in the past during the war on terror years, um, successfully.

• 1:16:09Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:16:10Speaker 02

  And, but also how this program, both the CIA side and the military side are fraught with problems also. One of the big ones is like, have you heard the term ubiquitous technical surveillance?

• 1:16:23Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:16:23Speaker 02

  UTS. So UTS-

• 1:16:25Danny Jones?

  Oh, was this like the DNA?

• 1:16:27Speaker 02

  It could be that, yes.

• 1:16:30Speaker 02

  Biometrics, DNA, surveillance cameras that are connected up to AI that's looking for you. That every time you go through the airport, they're taking your picture, they're taking your fingerprints. Even small airports in, in smaller countries now, I mean, everyone's kind of doing it. And that makes it more and more difficult for you to do anything sneaky. Um, you know, it's even if you're traveling under a false passport, it's like, okay, but your fingerprints don't change. Uh, so it becomes

• 1:17:00Danny Jones?

  Hard to do the thing in Men in Black where they put your fingers on that

• 1:17:03Speaker 02

  And burn them off.

• 1:17:04Danny Jones?

  Burns them off.

• 1:17:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, well, I mean, there's a couple of different workarounds. There have been workarounds in the past. You would just fly the person to a country that they don't have biometrics in the airport, have them buy or rent a car, drive to the third country, you know, rather than fly directly in there, things like that. Um, but it's becoming harder and harder because the technology is ubiquitous, because it's everywhere. Um, because you have these, you know, large language models that are sifting through data and they're gonna pull your identity off the internet. Um, it's super difficult and right now, um, I think especially the military looks at it is like when we put the person through all

• 1:17:48Speaker 02

  this training that they're like a one and done or a two and done. So they'll do like one or two missions and then they're going back to their normal job because, because of this, because their, their identities are gonna get burned.

• 1:18:00Danny Jones?

  Hmm. Yeah, I imagine there's some countries that are way harder than others. Like, how do you do this in China where there's like literally cameras that track your gate everywhere?

• 1:18:09Speaker 02

  You don't think I would blend in in China?

• 1:18:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So there's, there's that, that there's, um, cultural differences, you know, make it difficult for us. Um, but you're correct about the, the technological aspect of it too.

• 1:18:23Danny Jones?

  And I wasn't even aware they could do that with DNA. I didn't know they were doing DNA tracking.

• 1:18:29Speaker 02

  So, I mean, yes, DNA sniffers, that's a thing. Um, and we, we have all these problems with our data also not being secured, which plays into it. The Office of Personal Management hack, the Chinese got all of the top secret, um, security clearance applications from the United States.

• 1:18:48Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:18:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. So one of those guys who try to put them under non-official cover. Send them to a country like China. What's gonna, what's gonna happen?

• 1:18:58Danny Jones?

  When did that happen?

• 1:18:59Speaker 02

  That happened a while ago. That was like 10, 12 years ago, maybe.

• 1:19:03Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:19:06Speaker 02

  So UTS is making it increasingly difficult for these guys to do their job. And we're at sort of an inflection point, I think, where the intelligence community is having to rethink about this. And rethink about how we use NOX. And I mean, one, one proposal I've heard or one thing, you know, that we might do in the future is like you kind of pointed out, recruiting foreigners, like recruiting, like we're going to recruit this guy in Morocco. Maybe we bring him back to the United States. Maybe we just train him in his home country. Give him all the training he needs and now he's going to be our guy. Now he doesn't need like an elaborate fake backstopped cover because he can just be himself.

• 1:19:50Danny Jones?

  Exactly. Right.

• 1:19:52Speaker 02

  That's potentially an option.

• 1:19:55Danny Jones?

  So one of the things that your article was pointing out was that the difference between the actual like CIA NOX and military NOX. Right. And the military NOX have more trouble because, you know, a lot of those guys are more like brute knuckle dragger types. Right. And they're not like, they're not like sly, like

• 1:20:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:20:14Danny Jones?

  Multiple languages, that kind of kind.

• 1:20:16Speaker 02

  So yeah, that the, you know, average special ops guy has a pretty strong physique.

• 1:20:23Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:20:23Speaker 02

  A kind of body type that stands out, you know, full sleeve tattoos. We like to work out.

• 1:20:29Danny Jones?

  And a bar mustache.

• 1:20:30Speaker 02

  I have, I have tattoos. I'm not talking smack. I get it. But a spy, a successful spy probably looks like an insurance claim salesman. Like, you know, guy that's fat, balding.

• 1:20:45Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:20:45Speaker 02

  You know, just unassuming person. But there's other things too. I mean, there's military culture, the way soldiers speak, though even the way you stand.

• 1:20:54Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:20:54Speaker 02

  I mean, what your posture is something that give you away. When you live in this military culture, it just becomes harder and harder for you to blend in in your own culture, much less someone else's. And as I was saying earlier, I mean, it's also a difficult lifestyle when your entire life has been, you know, working with a platoon of Rangers or a platoon of SEALs or a Delta Force team or whatever the case is, and then go into this sort of like very lonely sort of existence. And I was, you know, even when I came in and I started first research in this story, I was a little critical, I think, of the stories of NOCs who get in trouble with booze and women. It's like, come on, man, where's your, where's your self-discipline here?

• 1:21:38Speaker 02

  There's a lot, this is kind of important stuff, right? But when, when you start to understand the way, the lifestyle these guys have, I think it's, it becomes very natural that they're looking out, they're looking for some sort of human connection.

• 1:21:51Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:21:52Speaker 02

  Because they're not getting it anywhere.

• 1:21:53Danny Jones?

  They're starved of it, right?

• 1:21:54Speaker 02

  Right. And then, and then, yeah, booze and women, it leads, it leads to operations getting compromised. And there's the one story in there, I talk about a Connex container with like $3 million worth of clandestine communications equipment that we put in a country in Africa. And the NOC that was running the logistics company got drunk and revealed a bit more than he should have to a woman.

• 1:22:19Danny Jones?

  Oh, no.

• 1:22:20Speaker 02

  And as far as I know, and the people I know, know, that Connex container is still sitting in a Connex yard in Africa somewhere. They just like abandoned it.

• 1:22:30Danny Jones?

  Oh, my God, that's crazy, dude. Jesus Christ. Well, I mean, that's like the whole thing. I mean, that's the story, that's the Havana syndrome story is like the main, the main thing about this, the biggest problem is the human intelligence part of it. Because we're the most vulnerable, we're the most vulnerable to being, not just because we're these biological entities that can be injured in multiple ways, but we have like these human desires and instincts and things like this and vulnerabilities to where it's not optimal, right? It's better to, it's better to use satellites and drones and fucking dolphins.

• 1:23:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, you're right, that as Americans, I think we're much more comfortable with that, right? Like laser-guided precision munitions, laser beams, you know, high-tech death rays, we love all that shit.

• 1:23:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:19Speaker 02

  But I mean, it's really important to invest in the human being because the human being is the weapon, right? The all this other stuff, they're just tools. And I think sometimes we overlook that and we don't want to put the hard work into investing in the human.

• 1:23:37Danny Jones?

  Well, how do you find humans? It doesn't seem like we're built like Chechenians, right? Like America, like America is going the way of like Tik, we're built for TikTok.

• 1:23:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:49Danny Jones?

  As Tim Dillon would probably say. And like, how do you find Billy Woz in this day and age? You know, like, how do you find guys like that who they they this is what they yearn for? They yearn to go over there and be the surprise kill vanish guys, you know?

• 1:24:06Speaker 02

  I think those people are still there. I think there are a lot of young American men that grow up wanting to do that.

• 1:24:13Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:24:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I think so.

• 1:24:16Danny Jones?

  Even with the way how the the lies of the Iraq war and the Afghanistan war, like how that's all come out and like these guys, like, I mean, I've had a lot of guys in here who you know, ended up going over there and they came back here and like fucking regretted it. Like, not just because of all the not just because of, you know, all of the the hyper vigilance and the PTSD and stuff that's involved with that and the depression. But like compiling onto that is like, oh, wow, this was all sold on a lie or whatever. And like, it was, we didn't, it was Vietnam, basically, all over.

• 1:24:48Speaker 02

  I mean, I feel the same way in a lot of regards. Like, we should learn from history. You know, we see this stuff happening over and over again. We should maybe be more skeptical about this war in Iran right now because our government keeps.

• 1:25:00Danny Jones?

  I think everyone, I mean, I don't think there's many people who are that do believe in this war in Iran.

• 1:25:06Speaker 02

  But I mean, the military doesn't seem like it's having huge issues with recruitment right now. They're having some, as I recall.

• 1:25:14Danny Jones?

  Well, you see, they're talking about the draft now.

• 1:25:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I don't think that's a possibility. That's, that's like, you know, you were saying about like the TikTok generation stuff. You install the draft and shit gets very real, very fast for a lot of people, including wealthy people and people who are politically connected.

• 1:25:32Danny Jones?

  Hmm. Yeah, well, because Palantir came out with their manifesto saying they want to bring back the draft and then the

• 1:25:40Speaker 02

  Thank you, Palantir. Appreciate that.

• 1:25:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah, right. Exactly. And

• 1:25:44Speaker 02

  Alex Karp's on the front lines.

• 1:25:46Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:25:46Speaker 02

  John Wayne in it with his helmet strap off.

• 1:25:49Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:25:49Speaker 02

  Cigar in the corner of his lip.

• 1:25:50Danny Jones?

  With his fentanyl laced urine.

• 1:25:54Danny Jones?

  And then the guy who's running against Thomas Massie in Kentucky also recently said that they think he like, other than the fact that the reason he's running in Kentucky is because he wants us to be more dominant and lethal in war, but he also thinks that it's, it would be optimal if we brought back conscription. So it seems like there's whether, you know, whether it's possible or not, whether it's likely or not, it seems like people are talking about this more.

• 1:26:21Speaker 02

  I mean, there is an argument to be made about, you know, national service, you know, should young people, you know, spend a year or two in some sort of national service?

• 1:26:33Speaker 02

  I mean, I'm against it myself. You know, conscription is like something you do in an emergency situation.

• 1:26:40Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:26:42Speaker 02

  But, you know, I think at the counter argument, of course, is if you had conscription, it gets the entire society invested in our foreign policy and in our war. And maybe a lot of these stupid wars wouldn't be happening if we had a conscription, if we had some sort of a draft. Because now rich people's kids are going into the military too. Like I said, the shit gets very serious, very fast for a lot of people.

• 1:27:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that, that's interesting.

• 1:27:11Speaker 02

  The fact that we have the, an all volunteer force and we have a TikTok society that's so disengaged is what allows a lot of this stupid shit to happen, in my opinion. That's what allows us to be in Afghanistan for 20 years, just spinning our wheels. And maybe if Americans were being drafted into the military and deployed to Afghanistan, that war would be over in like a year or two.

• 1:27:35Danny Jones?

  Interesting. Right. I mean, if you have the same people who are lobbying literally for this war to happen, have their kids be drafted.

• 1:27:43Speaker 02

  A little bit different, isn't it?

• 1:27:44Danny Jones?

  How does that play out?

• 1:27:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, a little bit different.

• 1:27:47Danny Jones?

  Hmm. It doesn't seem like people are gonna vol- like, I don't think people are gonna, maybe I'm seeing something differently than you are, but people are gonna volunteer to do that kind of work.

• 1:27:56Speaker 02

  I think what you're seeing is some of the trepidation, maybe from military veterans or from, from older people who were at least engaged, you know, and paying attention to these wars as they unfolded. But man, there's something about youth, when a human being is born, it's like pressing the reset button on history. And that the experience, the military experience is like so profound, especially in men. I think there's always gonna be a population that's gonna wanna join up and try to, you know, prove something to themselves.

• 1:28:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:31Speaker 02

  You know, Steven Pressfield, the author, has this whole story about how he got drafted in the Marine Corps during Vietnam. And he was like an anti-war hippie. He didn't wanna be there. It's bullshit. He's like, by the time we got to the graduation from Marine Corps boot camp, he's like, I had tears in my eyes because like, it was such a profoundly emotional experience. It's, it's like in our DNA.

• 1:28:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:53Speaker 02

  And, and that's good. We need people like that, right? You know, people that are, wanna be Billy Wa, you know, and be that, be that kinda dude. But we, you know, now, you know, me as a 42-year-old and other Americans out there who vote and pay taxes, we need to make sure we're doing the best thing for those soldiers, for those service members. And that when we deploy them, we're deploying them in furtherance of achievable strategic goals.

• 1:29:19Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:29:19Speaker 02

  We're not just sending them out there to just drive around until they get IED. Like, that's irresponsible and unethical.

• 1:29:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah, 100%. If you enjoy watching our show on Spotify or YouTube and you wanna be more involved, I encourage you to please come check out our Patreon community. Not only does our Patreon community get every episode you see on YouTube, early, fully uncensored and ad-free, but we're also doing Patreon exclusive episodes as well as Live Q and A's and you can get your personal questions answered by our guests every single week. For me, being able to collaborate and communicate back and forth with our Patreon community every week has been huge. And this is my way of saying thank you for the cost of a cup of coffee a month. Now back to the show. There feels like more of a separation between that political layer of people and the actual people, the citizens of this country, right?

• 1:30:09Danny Jones?

  Especially when you have this like Epstein file stuff come out and you know, it's like, we can see plain as day emails saying that these people are just trying to find a way to profit off of civil wars in different countries and profit off of arms trafficking with the frigging Trilateral Commission, which you've been laughed out of a room for talking about the Trilateral Commission three years ago.

• 1:30:27Speaker 02

  Are they even still around though?

• 1:30:29Danny Jones?

  I think so. Yeah. They have a full website with like a member list on it. And like, yeah, like they, um, who is, we just had somebody on here.

• 1:30:38Speaker 02

  I think you're right though, that in like in big picture, uh, overall, there's an increasing skepticism towards government. Um, the emperor has no clothes. People are seeing it, whatever metaphor you want to use. The Epstein files plays a big role in that, uh, in, you know, making people feel nihilistic. Like, does anything really matter? Like, we don't even prosecute this, then what, what do we go after? What do we stand for? Um, a feeling that America is just this giant shopping spree.

• 1:31:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:08Speaker 02

  Everything's up for grabs, shove hundred dollar bills in your pockets, you know, get rich while you can.

• 1:31:14Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:31:16Speaker 02

  And, and just this overall loss in, uh, loss of faith in the institutions of government. Um, and I think that people younger than me, so let's say people under 40, I think they have no, um, expectation that their lives are going to get better.

• 1:31:35Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:31:36Speaker 02

  I think they, I think there's a sense of hopelessness, you know, then the American dream is dead. I mean, we can see that in the data.

• 1:31:42Danny Jones?

  I mean, yeah, you can't, you, they can't pay off their high school, their college debt. Uh, they're going to college for all these years so they can what? Drive Uber, deliver Caesar salads just so they can afford rent. They're never gonna be able to, people are never gonna be able to afford it to buy a house. It's insanity. You know, it reminds me of, there's this great documentary done by a guy named Adam Curtis called hypernormalization.

• 1:32:04Speaker 02

  I love that documentary, man. I've watched it twice.

• 1:32:06Danny Jones?

  Me too.

• 1:32:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:07Danny Jones?

  And it reminds me exactly of this moment.

• 1:32:09Speaker 02

  Correct. Yup. Yup.

• 1:32:11Danny Jones?

  Where the people have just lost faith. They've lost faith. They know, they know the government is fake.

• 1:32:15Speaker 02

  But they don't know what comes next.

• 1:32:17Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:32:18Speaker 02

  You know, that's the aspect that, you know, the documentary about, it's about the Soviet Union for people who haven't seen it.

• 1:32:22Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:32:23Speaker 02

  Um, and how the Soviet Union was collapsing and people knew it was collapsing. They knew communism didn't work, but they continued going through the motions because no one had a clue what was going to come next or what should come next. And you're absolutely right. We are in that moment where the, uh, you know, the, the artifice of society is kind of collapsing. Or at least it's being hollowed out of any meaningful content.

• 1:32:51Speaker 02

  But nobody knows, including me. I don't, I don't know. What is the next system of governance? What is the next system of economics that is supposed to prevail? The only thing we're being told right now is AI, like AI.

• 1:33:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:33:03Speaker 02

  AI is like the new ghost in the machine. It's like some sort of demigod that's going to create a post scarcity society. It's like, what? Like, what do you even?

• 1:33:12Danny Jones?

  I think they, I think the, the tech overlords are just going to try to turn this country into a subscription model.

• 1:33:17Speaker 02

  Like Blade Runner shit.

• 1:33:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah. It's going to be, you just pay a subscription. You pay a certain percentage of your income to be, to be a part of America. And you have to give them your, uh, give them a sample of your DNA, all that shit. And they completely control every aspect of your life.

• 1:33:35Speaker 02

  The sad thing is if we don't push back on it, like, yes, that's exactly what they'll do.

• 1:33:40Danny Jones?

  When you really like dig down and figure out like how much money that these tech companies are getting and like the sort of narrative, they're also trying to push out. It's very, it's very. Creepy, you know, like they're trying to paint everything that's happening under the guise of Christianity and in Silicon Valley, particularly with Peter Thiel, and he's also doing these Antichrist lectures. And then at the same time, they're doing this in the military.

• 1:34:07Speaker 02

  They're secular Christian fundamentalists. They believe the singularity is coming, which is just like a different version of the rapture. It's the same sort of like magical.

• 1:34:18Danny Jones?

  Well, and they also, they also want to live forever.

• 1:34:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:22Danny Jones?

  Which is like, that's not very Christian, you know? Did you see the whole story about all those people in the military, like blowing the whistle about their superiors telling them that this whole Iran war was like, Trump's the next coming of Christ and we need to do this?

• 1:34:35Speaker 02

  I did, I did see that come out. I don't know if it's true or not, but I remember when that.

• 1:34:41Danny Jones?

  We talked to the guy.

• 1:34:42Speaker 02

  Oh, did you? Weinstein?

• 1:34:44Danny Jones?

  Weinstein, yes, Weinstein, yeah.

• 1:34:46Speaker 02

  Well, what did you think?

• 1:34:48Danny Jones?

  Well, he seems to be, he has an organization that is like dedicated to keeping religion out of the military, right? And he was telling me that he talked to a bunch of the whistleblowers about this stuff, and it was totally real, that their superiors were all telling them this. There was like over 50, over 50 people in the military that were, came out and said the same thing, that from different aspects of the military.

• 1:35:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, different.

• 1:35:19Danny Jones?

  They said their superiors told them that this is like a religious war that we need to, that Trump was anointed by Christ.

• 1:35:25Speaker 02

  Well, I'll tell you, there is a very strong, and look, I don't have any problem with.

• 1:35:31Danny Jones?

  Oh, 15, okay.

• 1:35:32Speaker 02

  I don't have any problem with Christianity or with Christians or anything like that. But there's amongst especially the officer class in the military.

• 1:35:44Danny Jones?

  I have a problem with baking that into your military.

• 1:35:46Speaker 02

  Yes, there's a pretty strong strain of it.

• 1:35:50Speaker 02

  And I remember, I can actually remember the date of this because it was September 11th, 2005. I was in Iraq.

• 1:35:58Speaker 00

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• 1:36:58Speaker 02

  With Ranger Battalion, and our platoon decided to have sort of like a memorial event to the people who are lost in 9/11, which is totally, I think, reasonable for soldiers to do something like that. The chaplain was invited to come and like give a speech or whatever, and when he started giving his spiel, he told us straight up, he's like, "This is a religious war, men. And make no mistake of it, this is a religious war." I'm like, and I'm very atheist, quite frankly. And again, I don't have any problem with my Christian teammates, but when I hear stuff like that, I'm like, "Oh, okay. All right, man."

• 1:37:37Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah, that's, that's, that's a big problem with it, because you have people, I'm sure in the military, who are of many different religions, or like atheists, or skeptical of religion. And when you start to do that, you drive a divide between your teammates.

• 1:37:50Speaker 02

  Right. And I mean, this is a, that, that was, good lord, that was over 20 years ago now. But now you're seeing it quite overtly, you know, and like Homeland Security, social media accounts and stuff like that, One Nation Under God, and all this sort of, kind of, it's, it's when it crosses that threshold and it becomes something that's kind of creepy. You know it when you see it, I guess.

• 1:38:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah, it's very odd. I don't know why. I don't know why they're doing that, but it seems to be a coordinated effort, you know, with Hegseth. Hegseth is one of the big people that are that's behind it.

• 1:38:23Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I mean, I'm probably not supposed to go too deep into partisan politics, but I mean, that's just bad people will try to hijack religion for their own causes.

• 1:38:35Danny Jones?

  Yes, exactly.

• 1:38:35Speaker 02

  You see that throughout history.

• 1:38:37Danny Jones?

  Yep. A hundred percent, man. You're totally right about that. Um, so going back to all the stuff with Iran, and we were talking about Venezuela before that. You also, you did a story on this ghost mothership or something like this, this mothership that was found in Diego Garcia. Was that you that did that? Or was that, or was that on, it was on, it was on the higher side Substack, but I was reading that.

• 1:39:05Speaker 02

  No, we didn't do that story, but I know what you're talking about. It's sort of the like, it's not necessarily covert, but it's like a kind of a low key special operations platform.

• 1:39:15Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:16Speaker 02

  It was down at Diego Garcia. Yeah, I remember that.

• 1:39:18Danny Jones?

  So that's crazy. So that thing was allegedly off the coast of Venezuela before that Venezuelan raid.

• 1:39:23Speaker 02

  Yes, I believe it was.

• 1:39:24Danny Jones?

  And something about that ship is like, if they can track where that thing is, that means like some sort of big operation is about to go down.

• 1:39:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, they can, they can launch platforms off of there. So, yeah.

• 1:39:35Danny Jones?

  Like what kind of platforms? What do you mean?

• 1:39:36Speaker 02

  Uh, I'm not sure if it's, does like amphibious vehicles. I don't think so, but I think they can get like ribs, like smaller boats, like sealed delivery vehicles.

• 1:39:45Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 1:39:45Speaker 02

  Type of stuff.

• 1:39:46Danny Jones?

  Diego Garcia is like in the middle of nowhere.

• 1:39:48Speaker 02

  Yes, it is.

• 1:39:49Danny Jones?

  So why would it be way down there? Uh, just like?

• 1:39:52Speaker 02

  So Diego Garcia is like a major resupply point. I believe it's actually a British island. But the United States has like bunkers there with all munitions and stuff like that.

• 1:40:04Danny Jones?

  It's a crazy looking island. It's an atoll, right? Where it's like?

• 1:40:07Speaker 02

  It's a collapsed volcano.

• 1:40:09Danny Jones?

  Oh, oh, yeah.

• 1:40:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like, so it's like circles.

• 1:40:11Danny Jones?

  It's a circular island and the inside of it's all water.

• 1:40:13Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 1:40:14Danny Jones?

  Bizarre looking.

• 1:40:15Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, I had a friend there recently.

• 1:40:18Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 1:40:18Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, yeah. He was there when the Iranians lobbed the ballistic missile at Diego Garcia.

• 1:40:24Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:40:25Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:40:26Danny Jones?

  What happened to that ballistic missile?

• 1:40:27Speaker 02

  Oh, just landed harmlessly in the ocean. It wasn't even close to them.

• 1:40:30Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:40:31Speaker 02

  Um, but yeah, there's.

• 1:40:33Danny Jones?

  Pull up, pull up like a global map of it to show, give people like the context of like how?

• 1:40:38Speaker 02

  There's a little town on there.

• 1:40:43Speaker 02

  And he got pissed because when the ballistic missile came in, they stopped selling alcohol at the little shop there on Diego Garcia.

• 1:40:52Danny Jones?

  No way.

• 1:40:53Speaker 02

  They shut down alcohol. They're like, we're on a war footing, men. No more alcohol.

• 1:40:57Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:40:58Speaker 02

  So he was really butthurt about that.

• 1:41:00Danny Jones?

  How far is that from Iran? That's pretty damn far, bro.

• 1:41:04Speaker 02

  That's a ways.

• 1:41:07Danny Jones?

  That's a long way. I wonder how far that missile went.

• 1:41:13Danny Jones?

  That's insane.

• 1:41:13Speaker 02

  I mean, hundreds of miles.

• 1:41:16Danny Jones?

  I heard, I had somebody tell me that Diego Garcia was the Area 51 of the ocean. That they have all kinds of spooky stuff out there.

• 1:41:24Speaker 02

  They might.

• 1:41:25Danny Jones?

  Flying saucers and shit. That'd be a better place to hide it. Not Area 51.

• 1:41:28Speaker 02

  True.

• 1:41:29Danny Jones?

  You know, Area 51 is kind of known for this stuff. So if you want to really hide that stuff, you should put it down.

• 1:41:33Speaker 02

  There's a lot of spooky stuff down in like the Panama City area of Florida.

• 1:41:41Speaker 02

  I think a lot of the operation, Ivy Bell stuff was run out of there when we were tapping, we first started tapping Soviet undersea cables back in the 1970s.

• 1:41:51Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 1:41:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. Did I ever tell you that story?

• 1:41:53Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:41:54Speaker 02

  So I talked to one of these divers on the phone years ago. And basically, they took the submarine, they went into the bay in Kamchatka, in, you know, far flung eastern Russia, and they were looking for like, you know, signs and stuff along the coast that would say like, caution, don't, you know, be careful, there's an underwater cable here.

• 1:42:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:42:20Speaker 02

  Like, okay, we know there's a cable in the area. And they went down and the way he was describing it to me, he was one of the divers that locked out of the submarine. And he would, he was telling me the story about the tap was already on the line. He had to go and recover the recordings. And the recordings, this is back in the day, they were analog. So they were like huge tape cassettes. And the whole, the tap was also like, you know, the size of this table almost. And it was really warm because he told me it was powered by a small nuclear reactor. And so when he came up to it, he said, because of the warmth, it was just covered in like snow crabs. They were just all over it. And he'd like, it'd take me like an hour to peel

• 1:43:04Speaker 02

  all the crabs off and like zip tie them to something else to keep them wet.

• 1:43:08Danny Jones?

  What?

• 1:43:09Speaker 02

  And then he'd have to recover the recordings. And he said, it was amazing. He's like, I guess with those fiber optic cables, like you can dial down through each level of the fiber optics and listen to the different lines that are going through. And he's like, we'd hear like a Soviet soldier, like playing Elvis songs on his guitar to his girlfriend over the phone. He's in Moscow, like just all kinds of wild stuff. And the Navy got a lot of intelligence off of that. But yeah, a lot of that stuff I think was focused out of the Panama City area, which is also where a lot of the CIA spooky maritime stuff is based out of also. And I think maybe we talked about it the last time I was on about the guys in the South China Sea that were killed.

• 1:43:52Danny Jones?

  Oh, yes.

• 1:43:53Speaker 02

  In a hurricane.

• 1:43:54Danny Jones?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:43:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, CIA op that unfortunately went wrong.

• 1:43:58Danny Jones?

  Hmm. Yeah, that's crazy. Um, what about that, the story that you did about those drones that were stolen?

• 1:44:07Speaker 02

  Oh, shit.

• 1:44:10Danny Jones?

  So there was these big agricultural drones that were supposed to spray fertilizer.

• 1:44:15Speaker 02

  This, this, this happened, uh, maybe like a month and a half ago now. Um, yeah, it was a company, uh, Sirese, uh, that manufactures these big agricultural drones. They can carry something like 40 gallons of liquid on them and disperse them within like eight or nine minutes or something like this. So they can aerosolize it. And you, there, there's a legitimate use of this. You'd use it to spray like pesticides on crops or whatever. And this is becoming increasingly common. So they were sitting at a warehouse in New Jersey, um, a bunch of these drones.

• 1:44:48Danny Jones?

  When was this?

• 1:44:49Speaker 02

  This is like a month and a half ago that they were stolen.

• 1:44:51Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:44:53Speaker 02

  A driver. So it's, it's like a holding warehouse, you know, in New Jersey. Um, people drop off pallets and then the buyer sends a driver, transporter, transporter to come and pick it up. And, you know, Bill of lading and all that stuff. So box truck pulls up to pick up these drones. The guy has paperwork. He has a driver's license, everything, the bill of lading, everything looks totally legit. They're like, here's your drones, bro. Put it on the truck. He gets on and drives off. And so the warehouse calls up the company and is like, hey, the guy just came to pick up your drones. And the company was like, what guy? And every, at that point, everyone does a big fire drill.

• 1:45:36Speaker 02

  They're like, oh shit. And it turned out that the guy used a fake driver's license. The Department of Transportation number on the side of the truck was fake. The license plates were either fake or stolen. And they, someone also hacked into the computer system to make it look like, you know, this was a legit driver. There is some sort of digital manipulation also.

• 1:45:59Danny Jones?

  Jesus.

• 1:46:00Speaker 02

  So it's pretty sophisticated in how this happened. You know, they're called transit heists. And now these drones are in the wind and the FBI gets involved.

• 1:46:11Danny Jones?

  They like $50,000 drones, each of them.

• 1:46:13Speaker 02

  I, I don't know how much they cost, but they're pretty robust.

• 1:46:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I thought, I thought it said it was like something like 50 or 60,000.

• 1:46:20Speaker 02

  I, so drones like that, you know, could be used for nefarious purposes. If you were to load them full of poison, some sort of chemical or biological agent and spray them over a civilian population.

• 1:46:36Danny Jones?

  Look at that, bro.

• 1:46:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:38Danny Jones?

  That's huge.

• 1:46:40Speaker 02

  It's a unit.

• 1:46:43Danny Jones?

  Good lord. Okay, it has a huge tank to hold the chemicals right underneath it.

• 1:46:48Speaker 02

  So the FBI is shitting bricks looking for these things. They get, the ATF even gets involved in case, you know, they're to track fertilizer because they're afraid they might put conventional bombs on these. This is something that law enforcement's been looking at for a while is like, you know, the use of drones for terrorism and even like assassination. You know, if you think about that, like Luigi dude that killed the healthcare CEO. Like if somebody wanted to do that, you'd send like two drones and like one would blow the glass out in the building. And then the second drone would go into the office and kill the guy. So the, the police are looking at things like that a lot now. They're doing this whole fire drill, looking for the drone or drones.

• 1:47:34Speaker 02

  About a month after they were stolen, I published that article with Sean on the high side and that got picked up by, I don't know, probably like a dozen different media outlets picked up on it, including some big ones. It was in the New York Post and elsewhere. And so a couple of days later, the drones were recovered. They were found just laying in a warehouse.

• 1:47:59Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 1:48:00Speaker 02

  A different warehouse in New Jersey. Yeah. And a person I know told me if somebody just comes and dumps like pallets in a warehouse, like everything's tracked digitally nowadays. If there's like something that's not supposed to be there, like that's not going to go undiscovered for more than a few hours. So the idea that it was sitting there for weeks and nobody noticed is like ridiculous. But the thought, I have heard a little update to this story. The FBI has some thought that because we published this story, it spooked whoever stole it and they dumped it and ran.

• 1:48:39Speaker 02

  I don't know, though.

• 1:48:40Danny Jones?

  I mean, the most scary idea is that it was some sort of like Iranian.

• 1:48:44Speaker 02

  That's what the fear was.

• 1:48:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that was going to conduct some sort of a terrorist attack. But it was so sophisticated, right? Like, how would they do something so damn sophisticated like that? You know, with the scrubbing of the, or the, having the fake DOT numbers, the driver's license.

• 1:49:02Speaker 02

  Well, transit heists.

• 1:49:03Danny Jones?

  And they would have to almost be in communication with the people who were supposed to pick it up to know exactly when they were coming.

• 1:49:09Speaker 02

  I have been told the FBI is looking at that as well, that there's like an insider threat.

• 1:49:14Danny Jones?

  Right. Or it could just be, you know, it could just be as simple as like a, just a ploy to make money, you know, to fake that they were stolen, maybe get an insurance claim on it or something. Who knows?

• 1:49:26Speaker 02

  Oh, I don't want to accuse the company of that. I don't have any evidence of that.

• 1:49:32Danny Jones?

  But I mean, companies do do that shit. Like, it's happened before.

• 1:49:36Speaker 02

  I believe it. And also, you know, it's New Jersey. Things have been falling off the back of trucks for a very long time. Our Italian-American community may or may not have been involved in those activities in the past.

• 1:49:50Danny Jones?

  Right, right. Yeah, the drones, Ukraine is very good at drones allegedly. Those videos that are coming out.

• 1:49:58Speaker 02

  I mean, I think factually.

• 1:50:00Danny Jones?

  The the stuff that they've been doing with the drones, like the videos that I've been seeing that that are fucking horrific of how they've been using those drones to blow shit up and um, and there was also something that recently came out of uh, they're selling their technology to us now with their drone technology.

• 1:50:20Speaker 02

  Probably their expertise.

• 1:50:22Danny Jones?

  Their expertise or whatever.

• 1:50:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, you know, I don't follow the Ukraine war like day to day, super carefully. Um, but you know, something you get might be interested in. Uh, I heard recently that we are sending JSOC guys to Ukraine and what they're doing over there was described to me as playing hide and seek with robots. So basically what they've been doing over there at the tactical level is like, kind of like sending out decoys that are going to draw in the Russian drones. And then when they draw them in, they'll disable them or shoot them down or whatever they're going to do.

• 1:50:59Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 1:50:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. And meanwhile, the Ukrainians have their drone operators that are out there looking for the Russian drone operators. So for the Ukrainians are looking for the Russian drone pilots while the JSOC guys are like disabling the drones themselves.

• 1:51:15Danny Jones?

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:51:15Speaker 02

  So it's like.

• 1:51:16Danny Jones?

  And trying to lure them out.

• 1:51:17Speaker 02

  It's like, yeah, it's basically like a drone ambush.

• 1:51:19Danny Jones?

  Wow, that's insane, man. Yeah, I s- you don't hear anything about that, that conflict anymore. Like, doesn't seem like it's a priority.

• 1:51:28Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, I, I mean, I just, I, I think a lot of that is because of um, this administration just in the headlines every single day with some, some new thing. Yeah, the, the war in Ukraine unfortunately has kind of maybe taken a backseat. I, I was recently at a um, an awards dinner um, for journalists and uh, a few of our CIA stories were nominated um, in one of the categories. But I mean, the thing I noticed was that. Across the board in all of the categories, immigration stories played a huge focus on the, on, you know, which not just the ones that were nominated, but also won. So I mean, that's just to give an idea of like, I think where people's heads are at. I think that immigration

• 1:52:12Speaker 02

  stuff is pretty serious. Maybe there was like one story out of Ukraine that won an award, you know?

• 1:52:17Danny Jones?

  Immigration stories are getting the most attention.

• 1:52:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like ICE and detention facilities and all that kind of stuff.

• 1:52:26Danny Jones?

  Hmm. Yeah. Like, how long ago was this?

• 1:52:30Speaker 02

  This was a week ago.

• 1:52:31Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:52:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:32Danny Jones?

  I feel like I haven't heard a lot about immigration in the last couple, in the last month or so. I feel like the Iran war and the aliens have been taking up all the...

• 1:52:40Speaker 02

  Well, in fairness, the awards are for the previous year.

• 1:52:44Danny Jones?

  Ah, I see. I see. That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense.

• 1:52:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, which I get. I mean, yeah.

• 1:52:53Danny Jones?

  Right. Hold that thought. I gotta take a leak real quick.

• 1:52:55Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:52:55Danny Jones?

  We'll be right back. I've never seen so much attention on something like this before. On a congressman, on a, on a, on a election for a primary for a congressional person. Like, I feel like this Thomas Massie thing is, is got so many people riled up.

• 1:53:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I wish I could speak coquently about...

• 1:53:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Have you paid any attention to it at all?

• 1:53:21Speaker 02

  Not this particular thing.

• 1:53:22Danny Jones?

  Well, it's interesting because it's because Miriam Adelson is donated $20 million to the person that's challenging him.

• 1:53:29Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:53:29Danny Jones?

  And Miriam Adelson is also the person who donated $200 million to the Trump campaign. And she's basically an Israeli who, Trump famously joked about her. He was with her, I think in Tel Aviv, when they were doing some sort of a dinner. And he's like, you know, Miriam, I think you like, you care about Israel a lot more than you care about the United States. And he was like joking about it, but he was being serious. Because everybody knows that's the case. You know, if you watch the Bibi files, we pay attention to their history. So it's crazy that Kentucky, one of the poorest states in our country, is getting $20 million funded into the opposition of Thomas Massie, the guy who is explicitly calling out no more foreign funding and wants to get out the Epstein

• 1:54:13Danny Jones?

  files. And he has the whole wrath of the administration coming down against him, too.

• 1:54:18Speaker 02

  It's a, yeah, I mean, Israel is a whole other can of worms, but...

• 1:54:24Speaker 02

  That's a, that's also a generational thing. And over the next 10, 20 years, I think you're going to see a lot more opposition to Israel and

• 1:54:33Danny Jones?

  I think that I, I, I've talked about this, you know, recently, but I don't understand how the next president, whoever runs for the president next in this country is not going to have to have that be a main point of their campaign. Like, look, no more fucking foreign aid to

• 1:54:50Speaker 02

  Or, or at least like not like being all in, like anything you want from us, we'll give it to you. Anything you want to do with our weapons, we'll allow it, you know, like, like somebody who's like pumping the brakes a little bit.

• 1:55:01Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. Yeah.

• 1:55:06Danny Jones?

  And like, I don't blame, like, that's the whole thing is like, Israel is doing what they should do, right? That's they're, they're doing what they think is their, in their best interests. I blame the people here who work, who are politicians in this country, who just take the money. And they, and they pretend like they are working for us when they're really not.

• 1:55:25Speaker 02

  I mean, I, I think it's debatable if, you know, ethnic cleansing is really in Israel's best interest long term. But I, I, I see what you're, I see what you're saying.

• 1:55:35Danny Jones?

  I mean, when it comes to subverting our people.

• 1:55:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, we pay taxes to the United States government. We don't pay taxes to Israel. So we expect our representatives to represent us, not some foreign country.

• 1:55:47Danny Jones?

  Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, uh, it seems like the younger generations are becoming more and more aware of this shit than more than ever.

• 1:55:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. The, the, the Israel stuff is really becoming like cement slippers for politicians, I feel like.

• 1:56:02Danny Jones?

  That's a good way of putting it. Yeah. That's a good way of putting it. And, uh, it, you know, this Massey guy, I mean, he's just getting like, like grassroots support from everybody. Like he's getting donations from people on like, he's just posting on Twitter, doing interviews, talking about like, what's going on? And he's getting ambushed by, by like the mainstream media saying like, you know, you're pretending to be a Republican, you're a rhino, you don't vote for Republicans. And like, he says straight up, he's like, I've voted with my party on 95% of the issues, except for Foreign aid and to AIPAC and to Israel and Epstein Palace. Like those are the only two things that I go against my party on. And it's now it's getting to the point where like, okay, this crazy Israel shit like in in our country now is getting so out of hand.

• 1:56:47Danny Jones?

  They should have foreseen this. So it's like, maybe they this is intentional.

• 1:56:52Speaker 02

  No, I mean, I don't think politicians, theirs or ours are really capable of like that kind of long term thought. And I mean, you hear the term all the time, you know, ascribed to Trump and others, you know, they're playing 3D chess. They're playing three dimensional chess. Let me tell you something. There's nobody in the world competent enough to play three dimensional chess. On a good day, on a good day, the United States can play chess. Most days, day to day, we're just playing checkers. Just day to day decisions.

• 1:57:27Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:28Speaker 02

  So, yeah, when you hear, I'm very skeptical about, I think, I think Netanyahu is trying to save his own ass. Trump's trying to save his own ass. It's just, these are politicians. It's what they do.

• 1:57:40Danny Jones?

  Yeah, well, he came out on the media the other day and he said, I want to, I want to start weaning off of the aid from, from America. Right now it's 4 billion and he's like, over the next, I think 10 years, we can completely wean off that foreign aid.

• 1:57:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it.

• 1:57:56Danny Jones?

  10 years, huh? How about cold turkey? What about all the money we paid already? Like, do we get a discount? Do we get a refund?

• 1:58:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, Mike Huckabee making his whole little spiel is like, if you don't support Israel, you won't have computers anymore. You won't have cherry tomatoes. It's like, dude, what? Oh, my God. You see that interview he did? He's our, he's our ambassador to Israel right now, I should point out. He did that interview where he's like, yeah, I don't like, yeah, where he's like, I don't mind if Israel takes over everything from the Nile to the Euphrates. Because like the Bible says, that's their land.

• 1:58:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:30Speaker 02

  It's like, bro, like, again, I don't have a problem with religious people, Christian or Jew. But when you hear like, that's, that has political repercussions.

• 1:58:38Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:58:39Speaker 02

  I'm like, I'm not really on board with this, man.

• 1:58:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah, they want to turn Israel into ancient Babylon. They want to bring back the ancient, the borders of ancient Babylon.

• 1:58:46Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, and you saw the thing, Mike Johnson and the red heifers.

• 1:58:51Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:58:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:58:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:53Speaker 02

  I wish that was a conspiracy theory. I wish that wasn't true.

• 1:58:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah, the Red Heifer and there's like the thing about the Dome of the Rock too, like the Dome of the Rock needs to be destroyed or something.

• 1:59:03Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 1:59:04Danny Jones?

  Or what is the real name for that? The Alaxa Mosque?

• 1:59:06Speaker 02

  These people are so nuts.

• 1:59:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah, the, the, it's, it's just, it feels so weird, man. All of the, all of the religious zealots that are like intertwined with this whole Israel thing. You know, like with not just like the, there's the evangelicals, you know, how they've like gotten all the evangelicals. There's a whole evangelical lobby here apparently. And now they're all going, going over there and they're somehow like convincing them that they, you know, the Jews and the evangelicals, it's this religious cohesion where we need to bring back the second coming of Christ. And it's just like, whoa, dude, this feels like the Waco thing.

• 1:59:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, again, I'm not religious, but I think like, you know, if there's going to be a second coming, if there's going to be a rapture, I think that's kind of like on God to figure that out. It's like, it's not up to us to usher it in.

• 2:00:01Danny Jones?

  Well, we gotta, yeah, we gotta hasten it. We gotta hurry it up.

• 2:00:04Speaker 02

  They're accelerationists.

• 2:00:05Danny Jones?

  They're trying to accelerate the coming of the Antichrist.

• 2:00:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't, I don't think I'm on board with this.

• 2:00:11Danny Jones?

  No, yeah, I, I, I hope this is all over soon. I do.

• 2:00:18Danny Jones?

  I'm not, I'm not optimistic, but goddamn, I, I, yeah, I don't know.

• 2:00:24Speaker 02

  Do, uh, do you want to talk about the book a little bit?

• 2:00:27Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:00:27Speaker 02

  There are some like real life stories in there. I think people might get a kick out of.

• 2:00:31Danny Jones?

  Is this book out yet?

• 2:00:32Speaker 02

  No, it comes out June 9th.

• 2:00:33Danny Jones?

  Okay, The Most Dangerous Man.

• 2:00:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, so the book, uh, it's a military thriller, a novel that I wrote that's coming out in June. And, uh, it's based off of a premise that everyone's familiar with. It's the classic short story written over a hundred years ago, The Most Dangerous Game, which is where the title The Most Dangerous Man comes from. And the premise, again, people have seen it in movies, if nothing else before, the concept of human beings hunting other human beings for sport. And in this book, um, a group of tech bro billionaires have a army ranger kidnapped in West Africa and they hunt him for sport.

• 2:01:15Speaker 02

  So there are um, characters in there, bad guys, villains who might be inspired by real life people.

• 2:01:22Danny Jones?

  Oh wow.

• 2:01:23Speaker 02

  Um, and I think it's a lean mean novel. Uh, really, I didn't want to blue ball the audience, you know, we get right to it. There's not a lot of bullshit in there. And you know, the nicest thing, I ran into um, Mark Graney, uh, one of my favorite authors and I ran into him at a conference the other day and he read it on the airplane and was like, it was exactly what I wanted it to be. I was like, alright.

• 2:01:51Danny Jones?

  That's amazing.

• 2:01:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, accomplished the mission. But to um, maybe get into like some of the real life stuff that kind of inspired me to write this novel, it wasn't just that I enjoyed that short story that I read in high school. Going back over a decade at this point, I was having lunch with a ranger buddy of mine. I was in college at the time, he was contracting, doing maritime security stuff. And so we sit down and we're uh, having something to eat and he tells me this story that he's hearing through his contractor buddies working in Africa, that there are these African safari guides that take wealthy people, big game hunting.

• 2:02:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:30Speaker 02

  And they also have contracts um, to do counter poaching stuff.

• 2:02:33Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:02:34Speaker 02

  So they're, they're trying to stop people from killing the elephants on national game reserves and things like that. And he said, what one guy did was he combined the two business models. So he started taking his wealthy clientele hunting poachers for money.

• 2:02:50Danny Jones?

  Is this the VetPA?

• 2:02:52Speaker 02

  Uh, no. Uh, I, I believe that's a real life organization, so no, I, I don't, I, I've never heard uh, them mentioned it with that kind of activity.

• 2:03:03Danny Jones?

  The VetPA is um, an organization that they take military veterans out to Africa and they basically, they hunt poachers. They like they kid, they they fucking render them. They go into their house and they pull them out of their fucking beds at night.

• 2:03:16Speaker 02

  I've heard of some of these groups. I don't I don't know them to be involved in what I'm describing.

• 2:03:21Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:03:23Speaker 02

  But I I thought that was really interesting when my buddy told me that. And so again, like 10 years go by and more recently, another friend told me a story kind of out of the blue. And this person was had not direct knowledge, but they knew, they knew a European royal family that had gone down to West Africa and done this. And it was described to me like, you know, those videos of like people hunting hogs from helicopters. It was basically that, but they were hunting poachers.

• 2:03:53Danny Jones?

  Oh, shit.

• 2:03:54Speaker 02

  And I was like, yeah.

• 2:03:56Danny Jones?

  Just mowing them down?

• 2:03:57Speaker 02

  That's exactly my reaction. I was like, no shit, man.

• 2:04:00Danny Jones?

  Like the native poachers there?

• 2:04:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. So that went into the inspiration for this for this novel. And then, you know, towards the end of writing it, actually, what came up on my radar, it actually popped in the news. A news story about people during the Bosnian war in the 1990s. Wealthy people from Russia, the United States and Italy, and perhaps elsewhere, paying a lot of money to certain people in Serbia to go to the outskirts of Sarajevo and shoot civilians.

• 2:04:40Speaker 02

  For like they were they were like game hunters and they paid money for this. They actually say they they paid a tariff on the people they killed.

• 2:04:48Danny Jones?

  What?

• 2:04:49Speaker 02

  And they paid the highest tariff for.

• 2:04:50Danny Jones?

  Where was this?

• 2:04:51Speaker 02

  Sarajevo.

• 2:04:52Danny Jones?

  Where's that?

• 2:04:52Speaker 02

  In Bosnia.

• 2:04:53Danny Jones?

  In Bosnia.

• 2:04:56Danny Jones?

  Why were they doing this?

• 2:04:58Speaker 02

  For sport. There's competitions to shoot the prettiest girl. They had to pay the highest tariff for shooting kids. Yeah, this came out in in like The Guardian and stuff like that. And a lot of it is based off of a documentary called Sarajevo Safari. And I went and found the documentary and and I watched it towards like the the end of editing this book, actually. And it's horrifying what's described in that. They they they interview a mother who's like to her. Her daughter was like two. She was just learning to walk and a sniper targeted them at the park and killed her daughter. It's horrifying. It's horrifying stuff.

• 2:05:41Speaker 02

  And this scenario, what I'm describing to you is working its way through the Italian court system right now, because they won't, I don't know exactly what's going to come of it if they're going to try to prosecute people or not. In the Sarajevo Safari documentary, yeah, there is Times of London.

• 2:06:01Speaker 02

  They interview like Bosnian intelligence officers and other people. They interview one of the fixers. His like face is blacked out, but he was like the intermediary that would like bring the people to Serbia. And they were wearing like all their hunting gear and they'd have their bolt action rifles and everything. Yeah.

• 2:06:21Danny Jones?

  Wealthy Europeans were paying, paying, like, who are the people that they were paying to do this?

• 2:06:31Speaker 02

  I, the Serbs, allegedly.

• 2:06:35Danny Jones?

  And what, and so did they want the bodies or they want footage of it? Or like, what did they?

• 2:06:39Speaker 02

  I don't know if they were making footage of it, but I think they were just, they were hunting human beings the way, you know, normal people.

• 2:06:45Danny Jones?

  Did these wealthy people want the bodies?

• 2:06:47Speaker 02

  Not that, I don't think they could recover the bodies because that would require them to go into the city.

• 2:06:52Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:06:55Speaker 02

  So, I mean, all of that kind of played into the influence for this book and

• 2:07:00Danny Jones?

  Holy shit, dude.

• 2:07:01Speaker 02

  There's, there's a group of tech bro hunters in the, in the book and there's a European royal family shows up later on.

• 2:07:08Danny Jones?

  Wow. I can't believe I've never heard of this, dude.

• 2:07:12Speaker 02

  It's, yeah, it's pretty sickening. Actually, I almost feel a little bad talking about it because like this book is fictional and it's, there's a bit of social commentary in there, but it was intentionally, you know, supposed to be, you know, an entertaining novel.

• 2:07:29Speaker 02

  And then when you read this, it's like, yeah, that's just horrible. It's not entertaining at all.

• 2:07:33Danny Jones?

  Rich sniper tourists allegedly paid 90,000 to shoot civilians, including kids, during human safari trips to Sarajevo. Wild claims allege. This is just reported last November.

• 2:07:50Danny Jones?

  Go down.

• 2:07:53Danny Jones?

  Wealthy sniper tourist allegedly paid nine thousand to shoot people during human safari trips to Sarajevo in the 90s. Extra fee for kids, including wild claims of being probed by Italian prosecutors. More than 10,000 were killed in Sarajevo by snipers and shelling between 92 and 96.

• 2:08:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I mean, it's just a small number that would have been, you know, most of them killed by, you know, military snipers.

• 2:08:15Danny Jones?

  By military stuff, right, right.

• 2:08:16Speaker 02

  But who knows really how many of those were killed by people there for commercial purposes, right?

• 2:08:22Danny Jones?

  Oh, my God, dude.

• 2:08:25Speaker 02

  Was it tens, was it hundreds? I don't think anyone knows.

• 2:08:28Danny Jones?

  You know, like you hear stories of this too. You see this stuff in like, like show, like TV shows and like, you hear like the crazy, like occult stories of like rich people that like, okay, we're gonna chase you through the woods and we go on this like ritualistic hunting thing where you have to run from us and we try to hunt you and like, you never think that this stuff is actually fucking real, dude. I mean, this is like Epstein files type shit.

• 2:08:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's like the degeneracy of it, right?

• 2:08:54Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm, which has been happening, you know?

• 2:08:56Speaker 02

  Murdering innocent people for your own vanity.

• 2:08:58Danny Jones?

  Dude, like, what is it about people? What, what is it about people that, that drives them to do this kind of thing? You know, is it, is it, because it always seems to be like the, the top tier of society or like the richest people who are like royalty or?

• 2:09:17Speaker 02

  Well, there are psychopaths, you know, at the bottom strata of society too, but we lock them up in prison, you know, or in mental institutions or whatever. But when you're rich, you got a get out of free jail card, again, get out of jail free card in a lot of ways. Jeffrey Epstein had one of those, for example. Until, again, back to our conversation about why journalism matters. The only reason why Epstein was put in prison and prosecuted was because of reporting that Julie Brown did at the Miami Herald.

• 2:09:46Danny Jones?

  Julie K. Brown, yeah.

• 2:09:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, she's great. Otherwise, he'd, he'd still be walking free today.

• 2:09:52Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm, yeah. I always wonder, I wonder, I wonder when the CIA caught wind of him, you know, because we knew that when that one guy, uh, the, the guy in Florida who was working for Trump. Came out and said that we know he's intelligence. And basically, that's why like, we can't release any of his stuff because he belonged to intelligence. He wouldn't have known if he was foreign intelligence, right? He had to have been.

• 2:10:15Speaker 02

  Who was this?

• 2:10:16Danny Jones?

  It was, um, uh. He was a Florida politician. And he worked u- under Trump's first administration.

• 2:10:26Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:10:26Danny Jones?

  A Lat- Latino guy. He, he, he has the famous quote saying that we knew, uh, we had information regarding Epstein. And, uh, we can't disclose it because that it's, we are aware that he belonged to intelligence. And he tried to.

• 2:10:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, what, which means what?

• 2:10:45Danny Jones?

  He sensed, has tried to walk that back.

• 2:10:49Danny Jones?

  Acosta.

• 2:10:49Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:10:49Danny Jones?

  Alexander Acosta, yes. And, um.

• 2:10:52Speaker 02

  But he's the guy that had to step down, didn't he?

• 2:10:54Danny Jones?

  Did he? I'm not sure. Did Acosta have to step down?

• 2:11:01Speaker 02

  He, wasn't he like the AG or something like that?

• 2:11:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that sounds right.

• 2:11:05Speaker 02

  And he had to step down because he, he was involved in like this sweetheart deal that Epstein got.

• 2:11:10Danny Jones?

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 2:11:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, that, yeah, he had to resign over that during the first Trump administration.

• 2:11:15Danny Jones?

  Hmm. Yeah, so. I'm wondering like at what point, because the claim is that, you know, he, the CIA. Was aware of him and he was clearly, you know, working with, you know, he worked with Ahud Barak, who's legendary, you know, former head of Israel and. So. You, you know, it's like, at what point did the CIA become aware of him? And why did the CIA choose to work with him?

• 2:11:42Speaker 02

  Well, I don't think the CIA worked with him. But given his international connections. And the people, like, again, like, if you're an American and you're trying to have a sit down meeting with Putin. You're going to come up on intelligence interceptions. Like, like, they're going to become aware of you, but the CIA can't actually like monitor American citizens. Or. Or recruit them for as like an intelligence asset.

• 2:12:13Speaker 02

  So I

• 2:12:14Danny Jones?

  But they can't monitor American citizens, but we know they do, right?

• 2:12:18Speaker 02

  Not the CIA. What happens is like outgoing stuff gets captured instead. So like if I as an American citizen am trying to talk to Bin Laden or something like that.

• 2:12:32Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:12:33Speaker 02

  My, my information will be intercepted in the process of that because they're watching Bin Laden, not me.

• 2:12:38Danny Jones?

  Oh, I see.

• 2:12:39Speaker 02

  But then, but then when they see that I'm talking to them.

• 2:12:41Danny Jones?

  Probable cause, right?

• 2:12:43Speaker 02

  Now that's going to go to the FBI and the FBI is going to start working that.

• 2:12:46Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right, right. But my thing with, with the Epstein thing is like, he clearly had undeniable ties to Israel. And he was getting all these powerful people together and quite obviously getting lots of valuable blackmail on them. All kinds of knowledge on our, getting scientists over there, heads of state over there and compromising them. Presidents, fucking Bill Clinton.

• 2:13:17Danny Jones?

  So like, don't you think it would be possible that if, once the CIA became aware of him, which I'm sure they did way earlier than he got arrested? Like if the CIA was not aware, they're, they're so fucking incompetent, it's not even funny. But like if they, when they, whenever they did become aware of what he was doing and his operation. Is it possible that they were like, listen, motherfucker, we see what you're doing. We know what you're doing. We're not going to let you do this anymore unless you pay us a tax. Like, give us some of this stuff. Like, we're going to start getting some intel.

• 2:13:50Speaker 02

  I don't know. I mean, I've heard these allegations for years that like the CIA is running global drug trafficking. I'm like, these guys, I mean, the thing about the CIA is, on one hand, it's very interesting. But on the other hand, it's not as interesting as a lot of people think it is. One of the funniest descriptions I ever heard was that it's like the post office, but with spies.

• 2:14:11Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:14:11Speaker 02

  That's not entirely accurate.

• 2:14:13Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:14:14Speaker 02

  Maybe the more accurate thing I heard is a former agency guy told me, he's like, the job is 99% bureaucratic bullshit. And 1%, holy shit, I can't believe we're doing this. That's probably more in the ballpark of what it's really like.

• 2:14:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah. I think from the files, I think the. It's became clear. I think he was above like the intelligence layer. You know what I mean?

• 2:14:39Speaker 02

  I mean, he's above every layer in a sense when it comes to any sort of accountability.

• 2:14:43Danny Jones?

  Oh, sure. And I think he's probably still alive.

• 2:14:47Speaker 02

  Really?

• 2:14:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:48Speaker 02

  You think he's hanging out with like Tupac and Biggie?

• 2:14:50Danny Jones?

  No, I think he's probably in Israel. I think he probably got a facial reconstruction. And he's, uh, he's probably back there somewhere or on another island somewhere.

• 2:15:00Speaker 02

  Maybe he's in Las Vegas with Elvis.

• 2:15:03Speaker 02

  I don't think, I don't think.

• 2:15:04Danny Jones?

  Maybe he's Palm Beach Pete, bro. Have you seen Palm Beach Pete? You haven't seen Palm Beach Pete? Oh my God, show him Palm Beach Pete. Palm Beach Pete is a, a super celebrity living in South Florida because he looks just like Jeffrey Epstein.

• 2:15:18Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 2:15:19Danny Jones?

  And he actually met Jeffrey Epstein. He talks just like Jeffrey Epstein. And he's like, he's going on like late night talk shows.

• 2:15:26Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 2:15:27Danny Jones?

  He has a cameo account. People are paying him. Look, this is him. Put your headphones on.

• 2:15:31Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, man.

• 2:15:36Danny Jones?

  Check this guy out.

• 2:15:41Speaker 05

  Some dude randomly filmed me while I was driving on I-95 unbeknownst to me. And the next thing I know, I'm a viral sensation. It's pretty crazy. I want to thank everybody for the positive comments I got from saying, I'm not Jeffrey Epstein. I'm just Palm Beach Pete. Going to play some tennis today, going to town, have lunch. I'm so not Jeffrey Epstein. I'm just me being me. And it's a crazy phenomenon that has went really viral and I really appreciate all the support. And just want to reiterate, I'm Peter from Palm Beach. Have nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein. He's a very bad person, what he did, obviously, and he is dead. And I'm alive.

• 2:16:27Danny Jones?

  He ain't dead, motherfucker.

• 2:16:29Speaker 02

  Dude, that's hilarious.

• 2:16:30Danny Jones?

  He's alive. I'm convinced he's alive.

• 2:16:35Speaker 02

  I, I, I think, man, this is getting off topic, but I, I mean, Jeff Epstein is the type of guy, like, he could not have done prison time. Like a dude like that, you put him in the box and I think he chose his own way out.

• 2:16:52Danny Jones?

  So.

• 2:16:55Danny Jones?

  Number one, there in the Epstein files and in recorded depositions with him, he has stated that he does not have a prostate.

• 2:17:07Danny Jones?

  There was emails with him and his doctor talking about medications he was gonna go on and all this stuff and he was explaining the reason why he's on these medications is because he doesn't have a prostate and he has got his prostate removed like early on in life, right?

• 2:17:19Danny Jones?

  In his official autopsy, there's a full examination of his prostate.

• 2:17:25Speaker 00

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• 2:17:55Danny Jones?

  Which is in fine working order. That's the first big red flag. Why the fuck does he have a prostate after he's dead?

• 2:18:03Speaker 02

  That is, uh, yes, if that's true, it's quite odd.

• 2:18:07Danny Jones?

  Quite odd. Um, also, the, the new note that came out from, from the, that fricking juiced up gorilla that they put in his, the cop killer.

• 2:18:20Speaker 02

  Well, he's a cop that smoked like

• 2:18:22Danny Jones?

  A cop that smoked four people.

• 2:18:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:18:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah, killed four people and the dude looks like, uh, he's injecting gasoline into his veins. He's so big. Um, they put that guy in his cell after he assaulted, or was it the story that he allegedly like, I forget what the first story was, but I guess, I think he was assaulted by the guy first and then, um, now after all these years, the guy comes out, his law, uh, his lawyers come out with this note that's allegedly a suicide note.

• 2:18:55Danny Jones?

  And it's definitely Jeffrey Epstein's handwriting, too. Like, we know this. Like, why wouldn't you release that six years ago?

• 2:19:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, correct. I mean, the thing is that, you know, this is like the new JFK assassination that, you know, we were, I mean, actually, it's a lot worse. You know, but I think that this guy escaped accountability for so long, so many people could have stopped him and should have.

• 2:19:19Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:19:19Speaker 02

  We're lied for, and we're, I think they're probably still lying to us about what this guy was up to.

• 2:19:27Speaker 02

  Goes back to that loss of faith in the institutions that we were talking about that now you can't help but wonder like, what else are you lying to me about? What else is going on? Is how many other Jeffrey Epsteins are there out there?

• 2:19:39Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:19:40Speaker 02

  You know, like, people, people wonder about that, and I'm not saying there are others out there, but it's quite natural to ask that question.

• 2:19:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it is. And that's a good question. How many more people are still like that that are out there operating that we have no clue exist? You know, like, they haven't, they haven't even started to excavate the surface layer of this whole thing. And I don't think that we'll probably ever know the truth about it because it's like, it's like civilization ending type shit. You know, the people that were involved.

• 2:20:15Speaker 02

  Fall of Rome type shit.

• 2:20:16Danny Jones?

  It's Fall of Rome type shit. It literally is. It's like the same shit Tiberius was doing, you know, with like, like these crazy stories of these sadistic, ancient Roman emperors that were just like killing and torturing people all the time.

• 2:20:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, for fun.

• 2:20:32Danny Jones?

  For fun. And like I said, going back to what you were saying about your book, about those people that are hunting people. It's like the level of like psychopath, psycho and sociopathy that are in these people, that's in these people. It's just like, it's a, it's a tale as old as time with people that are the top layer of society doing this kind of shit.

• 2:20:54Speaker 02

  The, the extreme wealth and power, I mean, it definitely seems to have a negative consequence for these people.

• 2:21:02Danny Jones?

  What is this, Steve? Oh, the prostate email. Okay.

• 2:21:07Speaker 02

  Oh, what he's saying in the deposition.

• 2:21:09Danny Jones?

  So Richard says exactly, and it's not clear what other effects those hormones might be having that aren't replacing the testosterone. And so the advantage of taking testosterone, there are two different things. You can have high testosterone and still have a need for Viagra because you don't have a prostate, right? Jeffrey Epstein, correct. So that's an extreme example. And then, and then this is the autopsy description of his prostate. Bladder contains approximately five ml of cloudy, yellow urine. The prostate is slightly and diffusely enlarged with marked enlargement of the, whatever that word is, and the testes are unremarkable.

• 2:21:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I wonder what, I mean, I'm horrified that we're having such an in-depth conversation about Jeffrey Epstein's prostate.

• 2:21:57Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:21:58Speaker 02

  But yeah, I wonder what was going on there.

• 2:22:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Nothing to see here, bro. There's also a, there's a crazy show that was done with, I think it was Discovery, maybe, where that guy Andy Bustamante, that like famous YouTube spy, he, he did this series on, or like one episode of this show that they're doing, where they, they got the blueprints of the cell that he was in, and like the official blueprints, and then they like reconstructed it and tried to like simulate how to hang yourself. And there was like virtually no fucking way to kill yourself. And that's

• 2:22:43Danny Jones?

  unless like, they, he tried doing it like with the exact rope or the exact cloth tied around his neck within the confines of that cell. And he's like, there's no way you could jump off this bunk without fucking hitting that wall and like smashing your head on the wall and you'd have a huge contusion on your head. He's like, there's no way he could have like reasonably like strangled himself to death. So, and then there was also like a, a separate little area of that cell that was like a cutout into the room where like the wall came in at like a 90 degree angle. And he's like, that's weird. He's like, this part of the cell isn't on the official blueprints. He's like, but it is there. So he's like, why would there be, why would this be different in the blueprints and from like what the actual dimensions of the cell are?

• 2:23:26Danny Jones?

  And they're speculating that it could have been like a, a secret room that he could have been in like exfiltrated out of. And he's like, yeah, it wouldn't have been hard to do this, you know? But who knows?

• 2:23:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, it starts to sound like magic bullet theories at a certain point, but.

• 2:23:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah, it does. Did you, speaking of the magic bullet, did you see the stuff that just came out about allegedly the DNI office, like the CIA stole a bunch of files out of the DNI office?

• 2:23:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did. It's, I saw that like coming out on, in, in social media and stuff. I mean, I don't see how that could possibly be true.

• 2:24:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:01Speaker 02

  Like who's the CIA gonna send to the DNI to confiscate files and why? For what, what purpose?

• 2:24:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah. So it was supposed to be a bunch of MKUltra files, JFK files and something else.

• 2:24:15Speaker 02

  I think, especially with this administration, you have to be cautious about like what we were talking about with Ratcliffe, where, you know, there are all these little chai boys around the administration who are all competing with one another for the king's favor. And I think that's where a lot of these like leaks and stories and stuff sometimes come from.

• 2:24:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah, well, I was watching something about that. And it was saying that that happened a year ago. But the story is now somehow just hitting the news about the DNI office. Who is the, I mean, the head of the, the DNI is Tulsi Gabbard, right? She's the head of director of national intelligence.

• 2:24:55Speaker 02

  What's Tulsi saying about it?

• 2:24:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah. What did Tulsi say about that? Find out what Tulsi said about that.

• 2:25:01Danny Jones?

  Because I heard that that actually happened a year ago, but now all of a sudden it's in the news and the Anna Paulina Luna lady.

• 2:25:09Danny Jones?

  Was on TV demanding that the CIA return the documents. Like you have 24 hours to return these documents or else.

• 2:25:18Speaker 02

  I mean, the sad thing is like, I know people are hoping that the US government has these like documents on the JFK assassination that are gonna like offer clarity and bring about some sort of like resolution. And I'm sorry, like I'm that guy that's probably gonna piss off a lot of your listeners. Like those documents don't exist. Like, we don't have them.

• 2:25:39Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:25:40Speaker 02

  You know, Trump keeps talking about this stuff that he's gonna release this and release that. And even the other stuff that he talks about, like the election being rigged. He's the president. He has this whole apparatus under him. He can declassify anything he wants. Order investigations into things.

• 2:25:58Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:25:58Speaker 02

  Where are these documents? Where's the proof? And again, it's just these documents don't exist. And it's very similar to the whole like UFO disclosure thing.

• 2:26:07Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:26:08Speaker 02

  Disclosure is right around the corner. It's coming.

• 2:26:10Danny Jones?

  Well, I think if there's, I think if that's the real, I don't think the president has access to it. So Tulsi Gabbard says her office denies the Florida lawmaker's claim of CIA raiding and seizing JFK and MK alter documents. Okay.

• 2:26:24Speaker 06

  I seem to, I found this with.

• 2:26:29Danny Jones?

  This all feels like a big limited hangout.

• 2:26:32Speaker 02

  It's probably just some person in that lawmaker's office trying to get the boss into the headlines or something.

• 2:26:39Danny Jones?

  Right, maybe.

• 2:26:40Speaker 02

  And that's the problem again, like talking about like the issues with journalism is especially when you work for big publications, you know, New York Times.

• 2:26:48Danny Jones?

  Is that the best you could find is Fox nine?

• 2:26:50Speaker 06

  That's what I was trying. There's only three articles I could find and they're all odd. This is another one. I, Weon, whoever Weon is.

• 2:26:57Danny Jones?

  It's China.

• 2:26:58Speaker 06

  Same information, it's just.

• 2:26:59Danny Jones?

  Tulsi Gabbard's office denies whistleblower claims on CIA raid. Okay.

• 2:27:05Speaker 02

  Is that when governmental offices are leaking something to the press, to especially newspapers and so on, sometimes those leaks are contain some accurate information, but they're also being leaked for political reasons. Like someone, someone in the office is trying to screw over someone else in the office. And you don't know who those people are or even what their motivations are. So like, yeah, you see a story like this hit the press. And like you say, they're kind of weird. Like, it seems like a weird article with kind of like opaque information. And maybe that's what's going on there.

• 2:27:40Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:27:44Danny Jones?

  John Kariaku told me that the reason that the FBI, and he says he has sources that are like very tight in like, still has like very tight sources in, in the agency and like in the White House and stuff. And he told me on this podcast, that the reason that they're not going to release the JFK files is because they point to a very specific country, basically saying Israel, saying that Israel's.

• 2:28:06Speaker 02

  There's some stuff, I think it has more to do with Cuba. We had probably assets in Cuba. And I think that's the last stuff that they're hesitant to declassify. Because they don't like to give up their sources and methods. But look, you can, I'll be here on camera, on audio, saying, there is not going to be any new revelations from any government files about the JFK assassination.

• 2:28:30Danny Jones?

  I'm with you. I don't think there will be either.

• 2:28:32Speaker 02

  You know, that's, that sucks. I know there's a lot of people out there who want some sort of resolution to this. It's like an open wound for a lot of Americans, even all these years later. But I don't think we're going to really get any deeper information than we have today.

• 2:28:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah. I think the person that I've talked to who has like the most, like, smoking gun evidence I've ever seen is this guy named John Newman. I don't know if you've ever heard of him?

• 2:29:00Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:29:01Danny Jones?

  He, he was a consultant actually on the first JFK film with Oliver Stone. And I've had multiple JFK experts on here. And I've asked all of them, I'm like, Who's like the number one, like de facto, most educated person on this whole thing? Who's like read all the documents and been studying this longer than anyone? And they all say that this John Newman dude is. So I had him in here and he was telling me this crazy story on how he actually tracked down a cable. This doesn't prove who did it, but it does prove that who was involved. He says he tracked down a cable between the FBI and the CIA.

• 2:29:43Danny Jones?

  The CIA's Mexico City desk and the FBI. Basically that shows that there was this thing called a flash stop on Oswald's record. Meaning it was like a, like a, an alarm siren.

• 2:29:55Speaker 02

  They were, they were watching him.

• 2:29:56Danny Jones?

  They were watching him very closely. And a couple of days or maybe a week before JFK was assassinated, the flash stop was removed off of his file. Cause he said that like that flash stop, if, if he was anywhere near that area during that day, it would have set off all the alarm bells and he would have been in the equivalent of a, a fleet at a Lysol convention.

• 2:30:22Speaker 02

  I mean, but in the 1960s, how would they know if he was there or not?

• 2:30:27Danny Jones?

  I don't know.

• 2:30:29Speaker 02

  Nowadays with license plate readers and everything else, I mean.

• 2:30:32Danny Jones?

  But he found, so he found the CIA lady who signed off on that cable, that CIA cable. And he went, her name was Jane Roman and he went and interviewed her at her home before she died. And she's like, what is this? What, what do you make of this cable? Like, can you explain this? And she goes, uh, it's very indicative of some sort of close interest in Oswald that is way above my pay grade. And she's like, I didn't ask any questions, but it's very odd.

• 2:31:01Speaker 02

  I mean, I'm not a JFK expert either, but I, I mean, I believe that they were interested in him because he was approaching the Soviets at one point.

• 2:31:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he defected, right?

• 2:31:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, or something like this. I mean, I recall the story. So, I mean, it makes sense that they would have an interest in him. In retrospect, of course, maybe they should have had more of an interest in him.

• 2:31:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:31:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:31:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Um, one of the things we haven't talked about yet is China. What, what do you, uh, what, what is your like overall view of how, uh, China is doing on like the geopolitical stage compared to when we're involved in this Iran thing? I know that they're definitely affected quite a bit by this. And then, uh, Trump just went and visited China and had a bunch of nice things to say about them. And, uh, wants to work very closely with them. I mean, obviously we don't want to get into a fucking punching match with China.

• 2:31:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. I, I don't think the Chinese want that either. Um, I mean, I think China is very shrewdly playing a longer game here than, uh, we are. You know, the first Trump administration was pretty antagonistic towards the Chinese. Biden came in and also was pretty antagonistic and about, you know, um, nationalizing critical industries and things like that, getting away from Chinese dependence. Trump too, seems like they want, you know, reconciliation with both Russia and China. Um, maybe, I guess they want them as trade partners. Um, I, well, I don't have to guess. I mean, look at who we brought with them on that trip to China.

• 2:32:35Danny Jones?

  Every CEO known to man.

• 2:32:37Speaker 02

  Everyone looking to cash in, shove hundred dollar bills in their pockets. Must be nice to have those kinds of political connections.

• 2:32:45Danny Jones?

  Did you see the videos? The videos of them walking around, like the kids jumping up and down.

• 2:32:50Speaker 02

  It's, it's shameful really. Um, but I, I mean, I think the Chinese are pretty content to sit back and watch the chaos unfold in the United States because they don't have to do anything. All they have to do is watch us screw up.

• 2:33:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:04Speaker 02

  Uh, and you know, it, the Chinese have, in some documents in the past, described their approach towards America as trying to manage a declining empire. Because empires in decline lash out and they get violent and they try to blame other people for their problems. Um, now I'm not trying to downplay the, uh, you know, threat that the Chinese pose in some ways to the United States, but, um, they're not wrong either, right? They can, they feel that, I think they feel that they can kind of sit back and just watch us implode from within. They don't really have to compete with us, never mind get into a shooting war with us. Like, is that really necessary?

• 2:33:43Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:33:44Speaker 02

  Um, the way America is right now, if China did invade Taiwan, would we, what would we do? Would we do anything?

• 2:33:53Danny Jones?

  Would they even have to invade invade? Do you think they could just like buy off those politicians? It seems like there's some diplomacy happening, right?

• 2:34:02Speaker 02

  Yes, I mean, a lot of that's already in the works and KMT, the Chinese Nationalist Party is leaning towards unification with the Chinese mainland. So, yeah, I think from China's point of view, they would much rather have Taiwan vote itself back into the mainland.

• 2:34:20Danny Jones?

  Right?

• 2:34:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't think I don't think China is like hankering for a war or anything like that. That's not their prerogative.

• 2:34:28Danny Jones?

  And what is that? Do you think that's like, how is that a problem for us?

• 2:34:32Speaker 02

  Well, that they're not looking for a war is not a problem.

• 2:34:36Danny Jones?

  I mean, I mean, that they unify with Taiwan.

• 2:34:40Danny Jones?

  Well, take Taiwan, however you want to say it.

• 2:34:41Speaker 02

  Taiwan is interesting in the sense that these Chinese nationalists escaped from China during the Cultural Revolution, during, you know, when the Chinese Civil War essentially escaped to Taiwan. And Taiwan represents a Chinese population very close that has embraced democracy and capitalism and makes it work. And it kind of throws flies in the face of the party line, literally the party line of the Chinese Communist Party, that freedom can't work for Chinese people. Taiwan contradicts that. So it's a problem for the Chinese from the United States, from our perspective, as we become isolationist

• 2:35:25Speaker 02

  or increasingly non-interventionist.

• 2:35:28Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:35:28Speaker 02

  Maybe we don't care? Okay, if the Chinese control the shipping lanes in and out of Asia, do we care about that? Does that impact us? You know, if they start, they're already taking over these artificial islands or actual existing islands from the Philippines.

• 2:35:49Speaker 02

  It's a strategy that has been described as slicing the salami. You're just changing norms very slowly, very incrementally.

• 2:35:56Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:35:56Speaker 02

  And then by the time somebody's like, oh shit, the Chinese control, you know, half of Southeast Asia. And it's like, oh, well, what are you going to do about it now?

• 2:36:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's like a soft power strategy. I mean, like the Belt and Road.

• 2:36:08Speaker 02

  Some, some, some hard power. I mean, annexing Filipino territory is hard power, but there's, there's a lot of soft power. You're right. And a lot of diplomacy. So ideally, I mean, we could reach some sort of, you know, modus vivendi, a sort of like normalization of things of relations with China. But the, the reality is America sees itself as a hegemon. The Chinese see themselves as a hegemon, like we're going to collide. And we should probably be realistic about that. But I mean, again, back to the, the Taiwan issue, if China did invade Taiwan or did reintegrate it into the mainland.

• 2:36:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. Ask the average American why that matters to them.

• 2:36:54Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:36:55Speaker 02

  They're probably like, where's Taiwan? What's that?

• 2:36:57Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:36:58Speaker 02

  So, I mean, yeah.

• 2:36:59Danny Jones?

  Well, the big thing is like the chips, right?

• 2:37:01Speaker 02

  Semiconductors.

• 2:37:02Danny Jones?

  The semiconductors. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:37:04Speaker 02

  And I mean, if you care about democracy, you know, a lot of people seem not to. So.

• 2:37:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah. And they also, they manufacture like 90% of our pharmaceuticals, our pharmaceutical products there. They own a huge ton of our debt. It's like, we're really in no position to challenge them whatsoever.

• 2:37:28Speaker 02

  The Taiwanese or the Chinese?

• 2:37:29Danny Jones?

  The Chinese.

• 2:37:30Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. That, that, so that's a lot of the like stuff that we were trying to do to bring some of that industry back to the United States so that we're less reliant on the Chinese. Honestly, I don't even know where those policies and where those programs are under a second Trump administration. I'm not, I'm not sure. They may not exist.

• 2:37:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah. And it, you know, it's kind of like, it's strange. And then, and then Trump's also talking about taking Cuba. People are saying that he's going to try to take over Cuba in like the next month or so.

• 2:37:59Danny Jones?

  I don't know it's how that works. I don't know what the, you know, some people think it's good like, oh, great. We'll have more vacation spots, but like, how logistic, how, how real is that? Is that going to be as easy as Venezuela?

• 2:38:12Speaker 02

  I mean, I think Trump has brainwashed himself into thinking he can chalk up these easy military wins, like we were talking about earlier. And then he pat himself on the back, give him one of these, be like, oh yeah, we won. Yeah. So you see him like going and fucking with like Denmark over Greenland. Right. Or like the Canadians. Right. Like what?

• 2:38:33Danny Jones?

  What's the strategic benefit of any of this? Like, we have military all over Greenland already?

• 2:38:37Speaker 02

  If you want to put a new military base on Greenland, just ask the Danes. They'll be like, yeah, okay. Seriously, they want to work with us. Um, so I, I think, especially as this administration goes on and after midterms, he's going to be totally constrained as far as what he can do domestically. So I think you're going to probably see it increase rather than decrease his desire to use the military to achieve quick, easy political wins. And as we've seen in Iran, they're not always so quick and so easy.

• 2:39:10Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah, man. It's crazy times. Um, thanks for doing this, bro. This has been fucking awesome.

• 2:39:17Speaker 02

  Thanks for having me. I, I hope the interview was useful and

• 2:39:20Danny Jones?

  Oh, hell yeah, man.

• 2:39:21Speaker 02

  listeners like it.

• 2:39:22Danny Jones?

  Amazing. Um, what else can people look forward to coming out? Obviously, your book's coming out soon, right?

• 2:39:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, The Most Dangerous Man.

• 2:39:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah, hold it up so people can see the cover.

• 2:39:31Speaker 02

  Coming out June 9th. Kindle, hard copy, whatever you want. And, uh, and then

• 2:39:38Danny Jones?

  New stories you're working on?

• 2:39:39Speaker 02

  New stories. We're working on stuff at the high side. Sean and I have a few things working. One of them, I'll just say, the uranium enrichment is something that I'm watching. Uh, the uranium issue in Iran. Otherwise, the podcast, the team house, that's still going strong, interviewing all kinds of special ops guys.

• 2:40:01Danny Jones?

  I get a lot of my, I get a lot of my guests from your podcast.

• 2:40:04Speaker 02

  Oh, do you really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, if you ever want me to introduce you to any of those folks, just let me know. And so that, yeah, that's it. Otherwise, I'm moving to another part of the city this summer and that's gonna keep you busy.

• 2:40:18Danny Jones?

  Getting out of Brooklyn?

• 2:40:19Speaker 02

  I'm still gonna be in, right on the sort of the edge of Brooklyn and Queens. I'm staying in the area.

• 2:40:26Danny Jones?

  Love it, man.

• 2:40:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:40:28Danny Jones?

  Well, thanks again, dude. This has been super fun. We'll link all your stuff below for people to check it out.

• 2:40:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you, Danny.

• 2:40:32Danny Jones?

  All right. Good night, everybody.

• 2:40:34Speaker 00

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• 2:41:19Speaker 00

  See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.