Susan Wojcicki ON: How to Avoid Burnout in a Leadership Role & Learning to Celebrate the Small Wins

Today I sit down with one of the most influential women in the tech industry, Susan Wojcicki. Susan Wojcicki is CEO of YouTube, the world’s most popular digital video platform used by more than a billion people across the globe to access information, share video, and shape culture. An early champion of online video who was instrumental in Google's 2006 acquisition of YouTube, Susan now oversees YouTube's content and business operations, engineering, and product development. Susan shares to us her story from studying history and literature to being a tech icon. She also talks about the importance of balancing time at work and spending time with family, having her mom as an inspiration in her parenting, and why it’s necessary to practice supportive leadership. What We Discuss: 00:00:00 Intro 00:01:42 Start a YouTube channel 00:03:40 From a humanities major to being a tech icon 00:08:00 Sharing her garage to Google 00:10:24 Acquiring YouTube 00:14:17 Day in a life of a YouTube CEO 00:19:30 Supportive leadership 00:24:52 Celebrating the little successes 00:29:29 Diversity in tech industry 00:32:06 The future of tech 00:36:33 “Be persistent and not give up” 00:40:27 Her mom as an inspiration 00:45:33 Final Five with Susan Wojcicki Episode Resources Susan Wojcicki | Instagram Susan Wojcicki | Twitter Susan Wojcicki | Facebook Do you want to meditate daily with me? Go to go.calm.com/onpurpose to get 40% off a Calm Premium Membership. Experience the Daily Jay. Only on Calm Want to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 2:01Speaker 01

  At the time, no one was sure what was going to happen. There were not a lot of believers. In fact, like there had actually been a really well-known article that had been published the week before we bought YouTube that said only a moron would buy YouTube. And that was actually like a headline news story that ran. And they didn't understand user-generated content. They didn't understand that average people can post content and have that be really successful and that other people would want to see it.

• 2:36Jay Shetty?

  Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow. Now, you know that I'm always excited to dive into the minds of people who've done phenomenal things, taken incredible leaps, maybe started things with a bit of risk and excitement. And we're here to unpack how they did that, what they did, what they think they got right, the failures they went through, the journey that they've carved for themselves. And today's guest is Susan Wojcicki, the CEO of YouTube, the world's most popular digital video platform used by more than a billion people across the globe to access

• 3:19Jay Shetty?

  information, share video, and shape culture. An early champion of online video who was instrumental in Google's 2006 acquisition of YouTube, Susan now oversees YouTube's content and business operations, engineering, and product development. Please welcome to the show Susan Wojcicki. Susan, thank you so much for doing this, for being here, for giving us this access into your incredible mind and life. And it's been wonderful sharing a few moments of pleasantries with you previously, but I'm very excited for this interview.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  Thank you. Thank you so much for having me, and I'm glad to be here.

• 3:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I've obviously, you know, for me, YouTube has been massively instrumental in my personal journey. And so this is truly an honor for me. I remember sitting in a...

• 4:11Jay Shetty?

  Ethnic Minority TV Training Day, run by the BBC in London. And so they're doing this ethnic minority presenters training. There were around six people, brown and black people in a room. I signed up to see if I had any skills to be in the world of presenting in media. And at the end of it, they said to me, they said, Jay, you've got some really good skills. And we really think you should pursue this career. And I was like, great, do you have a job at the BBC? Obviously, I'm born and raised in London. And I said, do you have any jobs at the BBC or anywhere in media? I'll start for like next to nothing. I just really want to be in this world because I believe I have a message to share. And I remember them looking at me with blank faces.

• 4:54Jay Shetty?

  And they said to me, there's no jobs in media. And there's no jobs in this industry. And I said, well, did you just invite six ethnic minority people to tell us there's no jobs in media? And they literally said to me, they said, you should start a YouTube channel. And my reaction to them was, well, that only works for Justin Bieber. Like, that was literally the thought in my head. And here we are today. So very grateful to you, very grateful to YouTube on such a deep level. But I want to talk about you today, before YouTube.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  I appreciate that, sorry. And I've heard that from so many YouTube creators where they wanted to get started. They tried. And for whatever reason, they were not successful on the traditional media path. And then they started a YouTube channel and had tons of success afterwards. And that's actually added a lot of diversity in backgrounds and people, and also their, what they want to cover as well, and type of content that we're covering. So I love hearing stories like that. So thank you for sharing.

• 5:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I want to talk about YouTube today, of course, but I do want to talk about your life before and beyond YouTube. And I think what I was fascinated about most, and I don't know if people know this, but a lot of people may not recognize that you actually studied history and literature in university. And now, of course, you're a huge tech icon. I'm intrigued by what drew you towards history and literature? And have they been useful at all to this journey in technology that you've had so successfully?

• 6:30Speaker 01

  So I definitely was a humanities major. And if you had asked me when I started college whether or not I'd wind up working in tech, I would not, I would have definitely said no. And I would not have believed you if you, if you had told me that I would be doing that later on in my career. And I, I, I love history and literature. I love looking back at what has happened, reading, hearing stories and storytelling. And I really only discovered technology when I was a senior in college. That's, I took my first computer science class as a senior in college. And that completely changed my life. And, but what I saw in it, in some ways is consistent with the history and literature,

• 7:10Speaker 01

  which is that I love being creative and making things and like doing art and all kinds of projects. And I saw technology as a way of extending that creativity, of doing and creating products that could be used by people all over the world. And that's what I fell in love with when I started working on technology. And I do think the history and literature has been extremely useful, especially now because we deal with a lot of issues that are not just black and white. There are a lot of ethical issues. There are a lot of people issues. And we're dealing with a lot of storytellers, particularly on YouTube, who are covering a broad range of topics.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  And so having a background where you have understood and spent time training to interpret different meanings of books and literature and what it means and has, has really helped me. And combining both the technology as well as the humanities and putting that together has, has been really helpful to me in my career.

• 8:11Jay Shetty?

  Was there any part of you that felt a sense of imposter syndrome or self doubt when you were moving into that space? Or did you have a confidence that you'd be able to apply those skills and your passion almost pulled you in that direction?

• 8:25Speaker 01

  When I started, the internet hadn't really come of age yet as we know it today. And so a lot of people were really confused, like, why do you want to work in technology? And especially all the people that I was working with, who, all the people that were studying history and literature were completely confused, like, why are you taking? Computer science. And I even remember one of my job. You know, I had no idea what I was going to do when I graduated from law. I literally had no idea. I graduated with no job. I had no idea where I was going. And I remember talking to a career counselor and telling them that I was thinking about working in technology. And she was so confused and she kept saying like, I, I don't see you as a, that kind of person. Because a lot of people were not working in technology.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  And I think the insight I had was like, was that A, this is a really big, growing field and that it's actually going to be creative and it's gonna, it's going to be a lot more than just people who are coders behind a computer, like writing lots and lots of code. There were going to be all these implications for what it meant and, and how the technology we had used and the, the storytelling that went into the technology or that came out of the technology. And so that for me, what I was really interested in. And I mean, there were definitely times where people were just really, and, and they're still are sometimes really confused. Um, like, what are you doing here?

• 9:48Speaker 01

  But, you know, I just really persisted and I've loved what I do. And so if I can get back to the parts that I love, then that helps me get through whatever is the hard time.

• 9:59Jay Shetty?

  I think that's going to be really comforting for a lot of people to hear when they understand your journey. And now when you look back, I think it's always easy to see people have these incredible wins and successes and not recognize that they've had their own challenges or pivots or, or moments of uncertainty. But taking a trip down memory lane and, and looking into history, I, I understand that you lent your garage to Larry Page and Sergey Brin, the founders of Google, of course. And I was talking about it with my team, literally two seconds before we went live and I was sharing that with them. And I was like, there, there's so much history there. When you think about the things that have had such a big impact on the world, Google and YouTube without a doubt have had, you know.

• 10:42Jay Shetty?

  Colossal amounts of impact and influence on the world today and continue to on the on the future. When you gave them that space, what was honestly going through your head? Like, what was truly going through your mind at the time?

• 10:56Speaker 01

  People think I had a bigger plan when I gave them the space. They think there was some grand strategy and they were this amazing company and I was so lucky. People would say questions like, "Oh, how did you, how did you get that? Like, how did you have them rent the garage?" And the reality is, I just wanted the rent. I just wanted the rent payment. That was my, I know that might not seem super inspirational at this moment, but the reality is, I was a student. I just graduated from business school. I had student debt, but I had managed to buy a house and it wasn't that big a house. But the thing is, Sergey and Larry were further behind me. They were living in the dorms, so they didn't have the house and they needed a place to

• 11:41Speaker 01

  start their company. And this was, this was 1998 and this time was, it was a huge boom. And so, like, every billboard on the freeway was like of a dot com company. There was no space anywhere. And so, they, you know, they knew, I knew them beforehand as friends. And so, they knew I had bought this house and I had moved also. I was still, I had just stopped being a graduate student, so I didn't think I needed all this space. And so, I said, "Okay, well, I'll rent it to you." And I worried about covering the mortgage. I might not have enough money, so I'll rent it to you. And they moved in and it was, you know, it was actually pretty fun.

• 12:20Jay Shetty?

  That's amazing. I actually prefer that answer. That's, that's a brilliant answer and it's so relatable and believable. And, and now I think, I think you're gonna inspire a lot of people to let people rent their spaces just based on that story. So if you have founders come knocking at your door, everyone's gonna be like, "Yeah, sure, you can have my space." Hoping, hoping. That, that's amazing. I think one of the most favorite moments in a YouTuber's journey is, is getting their plaques for reaching these milestones with a letter signed by you. And of course, you initiated the proposal of acquiring YouTube back in 2006. That sounds like a much more intentional...

• 13:02Jay Shetty?

  Focus strategic decision than letting Larry and Sergey rent space. So tell us about what was going through your mind at the time because, again, I think it's so easy to look at YouTube today and say, oh, of course it was going to do well. And you know, but there were so many other platforms. How did you know that YouTube had this potential? Or what did you see that was happening culturally in the world? Not even in technology, what was happening in culture and consumer behavior? That made you understand that YouTube was going to be something different.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  At the time, no one was sure what was going to happen. There were not a lot of believers. In fact, like there had actually been a really well-known article that had been published the week before we bought YouTube that said only a moron would buy YouTube. And that was actually like a headline news story that ran. And people did not understand that, they didn't understand user-generated content. They didn't understand that average people can post content and have that be really successful and that other people would want to see it. And that was something that, that I was lucky, I had some understanding of it because Google had been working and we had built a product called Google Video.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  And so Google Video, you know, I had seen two different things that really led me to being sure that YouTube had a future. The first of which was that people wanted to share their stories. So like we said, you know, upload your content here. We weren't always, we didn't guarantee that they were going to have views or revenue or any of the things that we guarantee today. And yet all these people would upload and share their videos. So there was just something very human and people wanting to share and connect, be found, be understood. And then, like, you know, and I think that that's reasonable. I think people generally understand that people want to be, share their stories. But what really surprised me and was less understood.

• 15:00Speaker 01

  Was that people want to see other people's stories, right? And this was a time where all there was, like the only thing we knew was studios and highly produced content. And so suddenly you have somebody and they're filming in their bedroom, or they just upload something of them doing something funny in their backyard. And a lot of traditional media people thought that this was really low-quality content because the content had been produced by people who were not professionals, without the same type of cost or studio equipment. But yet, it was really, really compelling. And so what mattered is people loved it. And we saw, we had one hit, and this was the first one that really convinced me,

• 15:44Speaker 01

  was we had these two students, they were singing in their dorm room, they have their roommate in the background doing his homework throughout this entire performance. And it just brought a smile and a laugh to everyone's faces. And we got millions of views. And I realized that anyone can have a hit. And as a result of that, YouTube will create this new form of content, and there'll be a lot of success for that going forward.

• 16:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love hearing that because I do think that it is a surprise seeing how much so many technologies have had to come together to make it a success too. The access to making high-quality video, or even video from your bedroom. I mean, you know, even how that's evolved at the same time. And to see that all coming together and people today, I think, being attracted more to that authentic content, more to that relatable content, more to that person-next-door content is really fascinating. I mean, you're running the most famous video-sharing platform in the world. It sounds like an exciting, stressful, hectic job. I want you to walk us through what a day in your life looks like.

• 16:52Jay Shetty?

  Because I think when you think about YouTube CEO, and you think about the journey you've been on since 2006, I don't quite think we know what you do every day and what you're going through every day. So could you walk us through? From the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed, what's happening in your day? This episode is brought to you by Mazda. The best habits are the ones we hardly notice, the ones that quietly shape the way we move through life, giving us the confidence to focus on what really matters. That's Mazda's approach to safety. Every Mazda is designed with proactive safety features that help keep you more aware, more connected, and more engaged with your drive, so you can stay present behind the wheel. That commitment has earned Mazda recognition as Consumer Reports' safest new car brand.

• 17:36Jay Shetty?

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• 18:01Jay Shetty?

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• 18:44Jay Shetty?

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• 19:23Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, I am not a super early riser. I wish I were, but I'm not. So I usually wake up at the last minute possible to still get my kids off to school. And I just try to wake up, get them, get breakfast, everything ready. Then I need to exercise every morning. If I don't, I am really grumpy. I need that fresh air and exercise, stretching, just some opportunity to connect with nature and do something physical. And then I go to work. Now with COVID and hybrid and everything, sometimes I'm working at home, sometimes I'm working in the office.

• 20:07Speaker 01

  And there, I'd say my time is really focused on what I think is most important for me to get done as a CEO of YouTube. And that is a variety of different aspects. I'm going to start with like, you know, one of them is to meet with my key reports and understand what they are all working on. And to also to review the future products that we're building and understanding where is YouTube going. So I should understand like, what is YouTube going to look like? Not today, but what it looks like a couple of years from now? And are we positioned, based on what's happening in the external environment, to be successful? So if I look at the future and estimate like, this is what the future holds in two years

• 20:50Speaker 01

  or three years, are we set up to be successful then? And in order to do that, I need to know a lot of times like, well, what's broken within the company today? And what I worry about the most often is when there's something really important for us to get done that nobody in the company is working on. Like, generally, like our core parts of our business, we have really great people and they're smart and they know everything, you know, better than I do. They do it all the time. But there can be gaps that companies have, and those gaps can cause big issues if you don't address it. So in some level, I'm looking at like, what's broken? Where are the gaps? How can I help fix it and make sure that we're set up for success in the future? And then I go home and I have dinner with my family.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  You know, my kids tell me all the ways I'm screwing up, probably.

• 21:42Speaker 01

  You know, we have dinner and put them to bed and I usually read. I try not to do too much email at night because I find otherwise I got really wired and I can't go to bed on times. I like to read, have a chance to reflect on other things before I go to bed.

• 21:57Jay Shetty?

  Has that changed over time, Susan? Do you think there was a point in your career where you were more focused on sending emails in the evening and having to do that? Has that balance changed over time? Or is that something that has always been that way where you've been good at kind of trying to shut off at least as we all try and attempt to do that?

• 22:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, so when I first joined Google, just to really date myself, because Google, I've been at Google now for 23 years. Like, we actually didn't have the ability to read emails at home when I first started. That was like, and now I see that was a blessing, but that, we got over that pretty quick. You know, one of the things that has helped me, and I believe it's given me some of the longevity, because tech, you can really burn out in tech. You can overdo it, work really hard and then say you need a break. And what has helped me in many ways is the fact of how I've balanced my work and my family. And in many ways, the fact that I have always had to be home for my family has made it be that I have to have hard stops in terms of my work.

• 22:55Speaker 01

  And, you know, my children, when they're in a daycare, you have to be there exactly on time. And if you're not, you're charged a dollar a minute. So there's no option to be late. You must finish at that time. And that has helped me in many ways, like segment my life of like, here's my work and I, I only have from this time to this time to get it done. And then I have my family life and making sure that I try to keep those separate. And that's actually, it's hard to do that. A lot of times people will think about work when they're at home or home when they're at work. And so being able to separate them has, has really helped me and tried to turn off my work when I'm at home. But yeah, it's definitely been something I've worked on and.

• 23:39Speaker 01

  I've gotten better at over time.

• 23:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, it's it's made me think about, I think I was, someone was telling me about this show the other day called, I think it's called Severance, where it's based on this concept of whether, when you're at work, your memory of home doesn't exist, and there's a piece of tech that when you're at home, your memory of work doesn't exist. And, you know, it's it's an interesting thought to think about, like, what would life be like? But it sounds like the most high performing leaders and CEOs are actually able to bring those two worlds into one another to improve it. I mean, you mentioned in an interview that if you could describe your management style in one word, you would say it's supportive. And I thought that was really quite unique. I work with a lot of leaders, I've coached

• 24:25Jay Shetty?

  a lot of organizations, companies, and I don't often hear that word. I really believe it's quite unique. When did you decide that that was going to be your style? And how does it look in reality? Because I think we all have connotations of what the word supportive looks like. But as a CEO, I'd love to know, yeah, when did it kind of feel like, yeah, that's my style? And then what does it look like in reality?

• 24:49Speaker 01

  Well, so I would say I definitely am a supportive CEO, but there are other things too. Probably, I would, I'd like to add visionary too, because I do think especially in tech, it's important to be one step ahead, have an understanding of what the future is and how you get the company there. So I'd like to say I'm like, very supportive in helping the company get to what's the right future. And of course, there are hard decisions. I mean, there are times where you make a hard decision, and that has to be it. Like, you have to, you got to make it. And if you don't, the company will suffer. So you have to be willing to make those hard decisions. But one of the reasons I said supportive at the time, and I do believe that's an important part of running a company, is that

• 25:32Speaker 01

  For me, it's really important to understand what's actually going on in the company. And it's possible as CEO that everybody tells you how good everything is, that their product is great. It's getting lots of views. It's doing all the right things. They have the right roadmap. And there are a lot of problems and they're not necessarily going to tell you what the problems are. And so as a CEO, you need to figure out what they are. And if you are a scary person that everyone is really worried about, they're a lot less likely to tell you about what the problems are. And so I really wanted to take an approach where people are open with me, that they understand that we can talk about what's going well, but also what's not going well. And then I will work with them to fix it.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  And there are a lot of things that don't go well. I acknowledge that. And I want to actually talk with my teams about what's not going well. Where are the problems and how do we get to a plan to fix it? Because if you don't get that plan, if you don't acknowledge it, then it's never going to get fixed. And so that's one of the reasons I said supportive.

• 26:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I find that refreshing. And definitely, I think the balance of maintaining leadership, but also being supportive and being able to talk about and receive feedback on what's not working requires a lot of adaptability. It requires a lot of openness as well. And so, you know, I can feel that that may be challenging to definitely practice on a day to day basis. I mean, how do you communicate to someone on a day to day basis that you're there for them? That you're supportive, you're open, you're approachable? Like, what does that look like? Or how do you make someone aware of that?

• 27:10Speaker 01

  I was really lucky. I was able to work with this person named Bill Campbell. And if you look up like the coach of Silicon Valley, you'll read about Bill Campbell. And I was fortunate to work with him for many years. He also was a coach to Larry Page and Sergey Brin and the Google management team, and also Steve Jobs. They were very close. And he would always say, "It's all about the people." That was one of his big lines, is that you really have to get to know the people. And he would talk about when you have your one on ones, you need to take them really seriously. And you need to get to know the people first. And you need to know what's going on, what makes them tick, how to support them.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  And he cared, he really cared. And like, I'll actually tell you this like, specific example. So I remember once we had some performance review and, and for a variety of reasons, there was something in this performance review that upset me. It doesn't really matter what it was, but there was something in it that upset me. And I thought it was really unfair and I, you know, sent some emails and said I was really upset about it. And he knew that I was upset about it. And so he said, you know, call me, I want to talk to you about it. And of course, like, I wasn't calling him back. And at 11 o'clock at night, he called me at home because he was just, oh, by the way, I was leaving on vacation the next day. He called me at home because he really cared. I knew he cared about me.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  And he talked to me, he said, like, I understand that wasn't fair. I'm gonna fix it for you. I don't want you to worry about it. He, I remember, he said, like, go on vacation, like, hug your kids, have a great time. Don't worry about this and when we come back, we'll address it. And, you know, that, that to me, made me feel like somebody really cares about me. They, that he went to this extra effort. He didn't have to call me at 11 o'clock at night, but he did. And so I, that's just a perfect example about feeling that you really cared for that person. And, and as a result, I would go the extra mile for him. I would do whatever he needed because I knew he was there for me.

• 29:15Jay Shetty?

  I mean, that's fantastic. And also speaks to the value of coaching, mentorship, having that guidance, which I think so many of us think we have to do it alone, or that a lot of the people we look up to have just been figuring it out all for themselves. But the value of coaching, the value of having mentors in our lives is, is profound and can be so impactful, especially at tough times. I think, I think a lot of the times, we try and these days document how great leaders deal with failure and how they've overcome failure. But I think something I find really fascinating is also how they deal with success. And you've had so many career-defining moments, I'm sure, and I'd, I'd love to hear about the one you're most proud of. But what I'm most interested in is, how have you learned to celebrate better?

• 29:59Jay Shetty?

  Or has celebration, or has acknowledging where you are been an important part of the journey? Or actually, is it like, well, I don't really think about that because we're on to the next thing? So I guess that's a two-part question. Like, what's, what's been a career-defining moment? And where has celebration stacked in the journey of?

• 30:20Jay Shetty?

  Reaching new milestones and peaks.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  You know, when I think about my career as a whole, it's hard to celebrate it in its entirety. That's just a reality. I realize that people just move on. They're like, great, you did that thing, but you know, what's coming next? And I tend to focus my celebration on what's happening right now. Like, what are, what are the events that are happening today that matter for our teams? And they may be moments that crystallize that success, like, you know, a product that launches. Or, you know, if we identified an issue a year ago, like, let's say we identified something on our survey, like, our creators are upset about a specific, you know, issue.

• 31:07Speaker 01

  And then it's been, you know, we had a team working on it to fix it. And then it's been a year and we got a new survey back that says, you know, you're 20 points higher on that. That matters. Like, so I really, I want to celebrate the big successes, but also the little successes and focus on what we do now. And I worry if you spend too much time talking about like, oh, all these things that have happened and, and like, yes, we went from like a garage to a big company.

• 31:36Speaker 01

  I mean, yes, like, yes, I celebrate that, but it, but I, I celebrate that for like a second and then have to focus on what we're dealing with today because that's, that's what matters. And, you know, and also celebrate some of the small moments that happen. What's happening today and the people who, like, people, it's actually really interesting. People are always asking me just, whenever I ask questions about things that are just affecting their daily life, like, what's happening, like, office space? And whether people are coming back into the office? And what our COVID policy is? And all these like little things, like, these little things really, really matter to people. Like, yesterday, we just had a really nice offsite where everyone came and like, we got to meet each other's family and be outside, have a beautiful day. And like, it was great. I, I like, I left that feeling fantastic.

• 32:20Jay Shetty?

  That's so fascinating because it sounds like the internal successes that are almost invisible to the outside world are actually sometimes more satisfying. And it's really interesting, in a world where we're so used to celebrating our successes publicly, the private successes are actually the ones that bring us the most joy. So the things that people don't know about, may never hear about, may never see externally, can sometimes be the most fulfilling. I feel like that's what I'm hearing, or at least what I'm taking away.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  I mean, there will be times where we'll do a launch and people will be well received. And we're like, yay, that's great. I'm glad this product is doing really well, or that it's getting this kind of adoption. But those moments just don't happen that much. And the reality is, most of the things that we're doing are what we're dealing with in the everyday. And how do we make sure that what we're doing in the everyday is celebrated? And also, you know, I don't want to pin our happiness, or the happiness of the company either, just on what the external point of view is. I think it's really important for us to have an understanding, like, these are our metrics. This is what we think is important. If you disagree, like, we can have a conversation about what our internal

• 33:33Speaker 01

  metrics should be, or how they should be changed, or how we should measure that. But the external world is rocky, and bumpy, and unpredictable. And they don't have the same set of information that we do. And so I don't want us to just be swung back and forth, like, oh, now they love us, now they hate us. We're happy, we're sad. Everyone would be completely confused, like, what's going on? It was good, and now it's bad. And like, I have to be able to explain consistently to the company about, you know, where we're going, are we doing a good job, and make sure that then we celebrate when we work hard to achieve what we said, set out to achieve.

• 34:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I know a lot of young people see you as an inspiration, as, you know, being one of the iconic people in tech today. And, you know, what do you think? Is a good reason for a young person today, especially young women as well, to pursue careers in technology? Like, what would be a good reason or intention for getting into technology that you think could inspire younger generations?

• 34:35Speaker 01

  I would say it's a great career for everyone and all backgrounds. And one of the things I've been really concerned about is not seeing enough diversity and not seeing enough women, but all different backgrounds, like, just not seeing a lot of diverse, enough diversity overall in tech. And if you look at change in our society, it's, a lot of it is coming from tech. And so who are the people that are changing it? Who are the ones that are driving that? You want it to be a diverse set of people. And I think that tech has, at least traditionally, had an image of being a very difficult place to work, fast-moving, long hours, like, you have to be a coder

• 35:18Speaker 01

  who spends, you know, 100 hours a week behind your computer. And so people who have that perception are driven away, and they don't want to join technology, and they don't want to join it as a field. But the reality is, is that we need those diverse voices and backgrounds to come in and to, to help figure out and shape what that future is. And, and reasons to go into it, you know, as you're asking, is like, you can make a difference. Your products are used by, you know, millions of people all over the world. It's a good career. There's, there's always going to be demand for your skills. And I, so I think it's a really important area for us to have more diversity. I think computer science should be taught to everyone at school. And the reason that it's not taught at school right now

• 36:02Speaker 01

  is basically because there are not enough resources. Like, there's not enough computers, there are not enough computer science teachers who can teach it. And so as a result, it's given to a smaller set of people, and they don't have, it's harder to get those skills. And then, a lot of times, like, the introductory, you know, computer science course is not really as introductory as it really should be. And so people join it and think it's hard, and they're like, oh, this is really hard, and they drop out. But I think it should be taught everywhere and the introductory class should truly be introductory. And if you did that, a lot more people would understand like, oh, this isn't that hard. I can do it. I can get jobs. I can make change. I can be part of this trend and industry and make a difference. And that would be really welcome.

• 36:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I mean, how far, obviously, the tech industry has changed so much while you've been in it. How much further do you think it has to go? Like, what is that change that's needed? What are the shifts that are required to get it to where you see the future of it? And how much has it progressed during the time you've been in it and leading? Well, this episode is brought to you by Amtrak. You know that feeling when you're already tired and you haven't even gotten there yet? That's where Amtrak comes in. Leave the driving behind and settle into a comfortable seat with plenty of room to stretch out. Catch up on work with Wi-Fi, grab a snack at the cafe car, or just sit back and enjoy your favorite podcast. Choose a cellar or northeast regional and get there without the stress of getting there.

• 37:32Jay Shetty?

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• 39:14Speaker 01

  It's definitely changed a lot since I've been in it. I mean, I know that from when I started till now, it's, well, the industry is much bigger. But it is a much more diverse industry than it is now, than it was when I started, for sure. And I would say I do see change across the board. Like, if you look at, you know, who's taking the intro to computer science class, and you look at the percentages of how many women are graduating. If you look at most universities, one of their biggest classes now is the introductory to computer science class. Like, and that is, in fact, a lot of schools are saying like, oh, my gosh, we have too many computer science majors. We want people to go back to study the classics and humanities. And it's true, we need all kinds of people.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  So I do see it changing, but it's just not changing fast enough. There's still, like, when we look at our overall stats, there's still not enough women here. But, you know, I think it makes a difference. Like, I was thinking, like, who are my role models when I started? Like, who, and I can only remember one woman that I really looked up to when I started, which was Donna Dubinsky, who started Palm. And now, I think if you're a young woman, there are like, a lot of companies have been started. There are a lot of women founders, and there's all, there's, you know, there's a whole range of tech, from like hardware to, you know, fintech, to biotech, right, to consumer software. So there's many different areas, and I think there are a lot more role models, too.

• 40:41Jay Shetty?

  How do you find, as the C of YouTube, like, when you're... Playing this role, I feel like, as you were saying, the industry is moving so fast. There's so many things constantly changing. How have you figured out, how do you know when YouTube is changing fast enough or not fast enough? Like, how do you decide whether you're iterating quickly enough or not? And what is the scale and what's the spectrum with which you rate yourself on?

• 41:06Speaker 01

  I mean, I often feel like we're not changing fast enough. That's like, that's actually like when I have anxiety. That's like one of the things I have anxiety about. Like, wow, the industry is changing so quickly and, and we can't always change fast enough. And that's just the reality to like the systems and the people and how we build. And so at the end of the day, it has to be a prioritization. Like, what are the most important things to YouTube? And why, let's put, we have to put our people there and make sure that what we do, we do that really well. And, and realize that we can't do everything. I mean, we're, we're talking here right on, on a podcast. And that's like an area where I would have liked to invest, invested more. If like you had asked me two or three years ago, I would have said, yeah, I know, I know this is a big area. I know this is really important.

• 41:49Speaker 01

  It's important to our creators, important to our users, but we only have so many people and so many resources. And we need to focus on what is important to, you know, to the platform and what's core to the platform. And like, we're actually doing a lot with podcasts now, which I'm excited about. And so there'll, there'll be lots of good things coming. But if you had asked me, you know, a few years ago, I would have said, yes, I see it and I understand it. And I want us to get there, but there were just, there were a lot of other things too that we need to do. And that's probably one of the hardest aspects of the job is doing that prioritization and realizing that there's some really important stuff that we're just not going to be able to get to. We can't do everything. You have to choose and, and make some hard decisions.

• 42:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I know, I know it's exciting though, and I'm excited about that because obviously I, I believe, I remember my team was sharing with me a stat the other day, separate of this conversation, but it, I don't know it exactly, but it was around the idea that, you know, the number one platform where podcasts are being viewed for the longest amount of time is YouTube, obviously. And so the fact that it's almost-

• 42:50Speaker 01

  I've seen that.

• 42:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, the almost, the fact that it's happened in an opposite way is great because, uh, you know, people are already using the platform in that way. I know it's been incredible for us from the video, but we always wanted a video version of the show. And, you know, it's always been YouTube first in the way it's been edited and designed. And we know that that's where it's consumed. And to me- That's what's so beautiful about the platform is often you're able to then see the stats and the data and then I guess invest accordingly and prioritize accordingly. So very excited personally and for the rest of the podcast community for the advancements and the announcements that have come from that area. If there was a warning, Susan, that someone could have given you before the beginning of your career,

• 43:33Jay Shetty?

  what do you think it would have been if there was a warning, maybe just a piece of advice, but something that you would have liked a bit of caution around? Because I think when we start something, we can be highly optimistic. And then we start to learn the reality of a situation. What would have been useful?

• 43:49Speaker 01

  One of the things, you know, when I look at my career, like certainly being persistent, like there are a lot of setbacks. I don't want to say like it's always been easy or everyone's always been nice and friendly and helpful. Like there have been a lot of hard times. But for me, it's been really important just to be persistent and to not give up and to believe. And for me, a lot of it has been just that I believe in the mission of what we're doing and providing information and access and enabling people to have jobs and like share their voices and tell their stories. And when people tell me about how that's made a difference for them, like that makes all the hard times worthwhile.

• 44:33Speaker 01

  That like that just makes them all melt away. And so having the mission has helped a lot, but you know, I certainly understanding that it's going to be hard. It's not going to be easy and you can't give up. You have to just stick with it.

• 44:47Jay Shetty?

  Is there a habit that you've developed over time, a discipline, a habit, a mantra, an affirmation, a practice that you feel has made life easier? That you feel like if young people, if anyone listening, not just young people, but if anyone wants to develop that would massively support their career and support their life? Has there been something that you point towards?

• 45:10Speaker 01

  Well, for me, it's been balance. Like I have to take time off. Like if I'm working all the time, it's not healthy. And I actually don't think I do good work either. Like I want to say it's a combination of both. So. For me, I have to have my weekends off. I have to have a time where I actually just turn off my job and just completely reset. And I find that it doesn't happen right away. Like, it actually takes time for that to happen. And, but then, when I come back to the work, I actually have a better understanding of what needs to get done. And things that seemed really important suddenly don't seem as important two days later.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  And so I think having some balance is really, really important. I mean, yes, and certainly having your family time in the evenings and sleep and exercise. Like, that's given a lot of longevity. I mean, I've been in this industry for a long time and I've done this job for a long time. And that is what has kept me going, is just being able to keep that balance. I think the other thing, too, is when I get really frustrated with something, I just stop doing it. I mean, that's another area. And it could be a few things. Like, it could be, like, something, like, I'm just having a really bad day, like, over,

• 46:33Speaker 01

  gotta just go to bed, do something different, not think about it. But also sometimes, like, when we're having a product and it's, like, we'll try something multiple times and it's not working, just, we have to try a different approach, just acknowledge, like, this is not working, let's just try something completely different and maybe bring in people who are not on that team or from different teams, different perspective, and try something, a whole different approach. So I think all of that type of balance gives perspective and helps you do a better job.

• 47:07Jay Shetty?

  I'm sure that would surprise a lot of people, too, because often we hear the opposite, but it makes so much sense that to be creative and to be effective, we need downtime, we need stillness, we need space, we need space to think, space to imagine. And you shared in an interview as well that your mom has been an inspiration for you. I wanted to hear about how, you know, the role she played in that journey for you, because I think it's always interesting, I think we hear both stories sometimes, where people feel limited and restricted by their parents and sometimes supported. What was it for you that she's played such a pivotal role?

• 47:43Speaker 01

  My mom is, well, you know, you should call, you should talk to her. I'm sure she would love to be on your show. My mom always has something to say. Let's start with that. And she actually wrote a book about being a parent. And she likes to, you can look her up on YouTube or Google and learn a lot about my mom. But you know, in many ways, the fact that my mom always had something to say was, like as a kid, was horrifying.

• 48:19Speaker 01

  She would embarrass me. She would complain. She would tell people how things weren't done the way she wanted, or she would protest. Or she always has, she always had an opinion. So my mom is a teacher, I will say that. My mom is an amazing teacher. She's been a teacher for 50-plus years. She literally, she retired during COVID when she was 80. And she started in her 20s. So she literally is an expert teacher. But she really believes in giving people, in like stating her opinion and not holding back and thinking for yourself. And there were times that, as a kid, that was a really horrifying thing because she would be embarrassing me.

• 49:02Speaker 01

  And you know, she also says like, look, if you're wronged and something happens to you, like you go to a place and they, you know, it's not as advertised, or they charge you something different, and you don't say anything, then you're actually making it hurtier for the next person who comes along. Like that next person is gonna also have that same negative experience. And so it's your duty and responsibility to speak up and to try to fix it. And so as a kid, I was always worried, like what was my mom gonna say and do? But that helped in many ways because in business, you have to be willing to speak up and say what you think and not be afraid if people are criticizing you. And so in many ways, I was like inoculated against being embarrassed as a kid because I was embarrassed so many times.

• 49:50Speaker 01

  And she, I think, also just taught me to think for yourself, that if people are saying things that don't make any sense, you should just think for yourself and believe in yourself and believe what you What you think and not just go along with what's a common thought. And she's done a really good job and she's really innovated a lot in the field of education herself by not going along and thinking her own ways about how she got her students to think for themselves. She's a journalism teacher, so she's taught a lot about gotten a lot of students to write stories and to question and to ask hard questions and then be willing to say it and to write it. And that has gone a long way. She has a big fan club of students.

• 50:33Jay Shetty?

  That's incredible. I wonder how, when you became a mom, how did that change your view about your relationship with your own mom, but then also your relationship to work as well?

• 50:44Speaker 01

  Well, my kids love having, they have lots of stories about their grandmother. And, you know, I think being a mom, you know, gives you appreciation for your own mom, right? Because you realize like, oh, my gosh, this is so hard. And you start thinking like, what did my mom do well? What do I want to incorporate? And I'll say like, what I learned from my mom was just the fact that she believed in her kids. And believing in your kids and not necessarily expecting them to fit into an established mold. Like, everybody has to be the same. Everyone has to do like they're, you know, the same classes and go to the same school and get the same grades, right? But everyone is an individual. Your kids are not necessarily like you, but you still have to support them to just be

• 51:29Speaker 01

  whoever they are, even if that's nothing with like what you are. And support them. And so like my, I mean, my oldest kid was really into magic for a while, right? Like, I know nothing about magic.

• 51:44Jay Shetty?

  I love magic, too.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  Now I have a lot of appreciation for magic. And actually, I've learned, I've changed in the sense where now I actually am really thankful when my kids come up with some interests that I know nothing about, but they want to learn about. Like, how do I get into that with them? How do I support them and go on that journey with them? But But I I believe I got that from my mom, which was just supporting people on who they are and believing in them that they can accomplish, even if it's different than what the established norm is.

• 52:17Jay Shetty?

  Well, Susan, I've been so grateful to talk to you today. It's been such a joy hearing about you from you and learning more about you as a human, as a person, as a leader. And we end every On Purpose episode with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one word or one sentence maximum. So one word, one sentence. Susan, are you ready? These are your final five.

• 52:41Speaker 01

  OK, I'll do my best.

• 52:42Jay Shetty?

  Great. All right. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever received?

• 52:48Speaker 01

  Not to be defensive when people criticize you.

• 52:50Jay Shetty?

  Amazing. What is the worst advice you've ever received?

• 52:54Speaker 01

  That you can't do something. Lots of people like to tell you like all the things you can't do. And I don't think they're true.

• 53:00Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. Question number three, what's the biggest risk you've ever taken?

• 53:04Speaker 01

  Probably joining Google when I was pregnant and they had no revenue and I had a house and a mortgage. And I was leaving an established job.

• 53:14Jay Shetty?

  Amazing. Question number four, what would you say has been your biggest failure on this journey?

• 53:20Speaker 01

  I would just like to have more free time. That's one of the things. Like, even though I really try to create balance, I still need even more time than I probably have given myself.

• 53:31Jay Shetty?

  I can relate in my own my own way, too. So I'm with you on that one. Fifth and final question, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Well, I would love, at least in the US, what we don't have that is we have in many other countries is for there to be paid family leave and to have early childhood education. And I've I've personally seen like how important that is. And it's something that we don't have for a lot of working moms and.

• 54:04Speaker 01

  I really think it would make a huge difference to be able to and working families across the board, like everyone is impacted. So like really supporting the youngest, our youngest citizens, how to make sure that they have the right time and support. So those are things I would love for us to have.

• 54:22Jay Shetty?

  That's a fantastic answer. Susan, it's been incredible talking to you. You know, often when I sit down with CEOs, if I'm honest, it can often be challenging because there's just so many barriers to what you can say and can't say. And, and I just want to thank you for having been so open today and been so vulnerable. And it's just been such a beautiful conversation with a grounded and very, very open leader. And I'm very, very thankful for that. So, thank you so much.

• 54:47Speaker 01

  Thank you. I have a question for you.

• 54:50Jay Shetty?

  Please.

• 54:50Speaker 01

  So from your book, I saw you offer so much wise advice across the board. And, you know, I see that some of the people who may need it the most, particularly are young people and teenagers. Like, I want to know how, like, do you offer classes? Do you offer seminars? Do you offer camps? Like, I think there would be a really big opportunity for young people to learn some of the life lessons that you provide in your book.

• 55:19Jay Shetty?

  Well, first of all, that's very kind of you. Thank you so much. And I'd say that currently, the part of my work that we focused on up until this point has definitely been aimed at people 18 years and older. And at this point in my life, I'm definitely starting to work with far more younger audiences and younger teens because I see the need for that. And I've always wanted to do that. I think that some of the themes that we've covered up until now are often realized at a later age and stage, whether it's passion, whether it's purpose, whether it's challenges to work and relationships. But we are, as we, as we speak, we're currently working on a lot more programming around those ages. So, I mean, I would love to partner with you,

• 56:03Jay Shetty?

  figure out a way to work together to do that more because that's where my heart is too. And I too share that belief and value that you stated around really investing in our future leaders and not just saying that and talking about it, but really giving them access to those insights and ideas. So it's, it's right there and it's, we're right on the cusp of doing that.

• 56:23Speaker 01

  Okay, good. No, I think it could be really valuable, especially. The pandemic has been so hard for a lot of young people. It seems like you have a lot of really valuable tools to help people adjust with challenging, challenging situations. So, well, thank you so much for having me.

• 56:38Jay Shetty?

  Thank you so much to you and your team, and thank you for your time. And I hope we get to hang out when you're next in L.A.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  I hope so, too. And thank you for being on YouTube.

• 56:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, thank you so much. Thanks, Susan.

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