Ep. 772: Bullwhacker, Dinky Rifle Calibers, and Whitetail Bucks | MeatEater Radio Live!

Hosts Brody Henderson, Randall Williams, and Jordan Sillars talk with Mike Kautz of American Prairie about a recent land access victory, throwback to whitetails of their past, chat with Tyler Freel of the Tundra Talk Podcast about cartridge choice when hunting big game, and share their dream whitetail hunts. Watch the live stream on the MeatEater Podcast Network YouTube channel. https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork Subscribe to The MeatEater Podcast Network https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork MeatEater on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/meateater, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/StevenRinellaMeatEater/, Twitter https://twitter.com/MeatEaterTV?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor, and YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:33Steven Rinella?

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• 1:17Steven Rinella?

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• 1:46Speaker 02

  Smell us now, lady. Welcome to Meat Eater Trivia. Meat Eater Podcast.

• 2:08Speaker 03

  Welcome everybody to Meat Eater Radio Live. It's 11 a.m. here at Meat Eater HQ in Bozeman. That's 1 p.m. in my hometown of Edinburgh, Pennsylvania, where archery season, archery whitetail season is now open for all you bow guys and crossbow guys.

• 2:25Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 2:26Speaker 03

  Yeah. Arrow guns, we call them. Um, I'm your host, Brody. I'm joined today by the only person who occasionally threatens my total domination of Meat Eater trivia, Randall Williams. He beat me yesterday and... Spoiler alert. What's that? Spoiler alert. Well, it's not really a spoiler. Can we cut that out, Phil? Can we cut that out? Is it a spoiler?

• 2:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, I'll get right on that.

• 2:49Speaker 03

  I mean, not really.

• 2:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, if someone's expecting it already, is it really a spoiler?

• 2:53Speaker 03

  We've also got Jordan Sillers. Uh, he, he's our very own expert on all things firearms, aren't you?

• 3:00Speaker 06

  I do my best. Yeah.

• 3:02Speaker 03

  I read your stuff. It's good.

• 3:03Speaker 06

  Yeah, thanks.

• 3:04Speaker 03

  Um, this week, we've got a couple of great interviews. Um, first is about a huge public access win here in Montana. And we're also going to be talking to, you'll like this, Jordan. We're going to be talking to someone about shooting great big game animals with little dinky rifle cartridges. And, uh, first, since this is whitetail week at Meat Eater, uh, when we celebrate all things whitetail hunting, we're also going to share, uh, some whitetail buck stuff, a Throwback Thursday and, and a whitetail dream hunt deal that we're going to talk about. Uh, speaking of whitetail week, which is brought to you by, by our friends at Sig Sauer. Uh, not only do we have deals across all the Meat Eater

• 3:47Speaker 03

  brands, including up to 40% off at first light. Uh, and, and there's great deals on the Meat Eater website, too. Um, we're also dropping a steady supply of fresh whitetail content. We're running a real fun competition to decide which state is, is the best whitetail hunting state. You can go check that out at the meat eater.com. Um, go check out firstlight.com to get yourself outfitted for like all the different conditions you're going to run into during three, four months of whitetail season. So like there, there's something there you're going to find that you need. And, and you don't even have to be a whitetail hunter to take advantage of this sale. There's all, there's like all

• 4:28Speaker 03

  kinds of all purpose stuff on sale at first light, too. And, and again, discounted merch at, at the meat eater.com. So get on there. How long's this thing go on till Sunday?

• 4:40Speaker 06

  That would be a good question.

• 4:42Speaker 03

  I think you got like a couple, few more days to take advantage of it.

• 4:46Speaker 06

  It's all over the website. If Steve were here, he'd go, come on, Randall.

• 4:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:50Speaker 06

  He wouldn't know either, though. Yeah, exactly.

• 4:52Speaker 03

  I mean, we're busy doing this stuff. We can't keep track of everything. And we're so busy that we're going to skip the chit chat today because we have a lot, a lot we're going to cover. Um, and in place of chit chat, real quick, Jordan, you haven't been on the show that much. So introduce yourself.

• 5:09Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 5:10Speaker 03

  And tell everyone real quick about your, the crazy new podcast you're doing.

• 5:15Speaker 06

  Yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah, I'm Jordan Sillars. Uh, I'm a managing editor for the website and then I also help Cal with his podcast, Cal's Week in Review. Um, starting up a new podcast, we launched a pilot episode in March, um, that you may have seen. It's called Blood Trails. Uh, it's a true crime podcast about hunters, anglers, uh, campers, hikers, you know, everyone sort of in our world. Um, and really excited about it. Uh, we have, uh, eight episodes coming out in this first season. Um, we have a story of a hunter who disappeared under very suspicious circumstances. We have a story, um, of a hunter

• 5:54Speaker 06

  who was found stabbed 17 times and the medical examiner ruled it a suicide. So that's.

• 6:02Speaker 03

  Randall, where were you during that time?

• 6:04Speaker 06

  Yeah. I'd have to, I'd have to know. I'd need the details because I was not involved. Noted, noted. Um, there's a story of a hunter who was shot with his own rifle. Uh, and there's thoughts about whether it was someone close to him who may have done it. So lots of really interesting stories. We think it's, you know, we, we hope people like it and we're really excited about it.

• 6:27Speaker 03

  Man, I mean, of course they're gonna like it. Like the true crime genre is like bananas these days and, and I think you've already got like the hunting crowd locked in. So you need to market this to like suburban soccer moms who

• 6:39Speaker 06

  There you go.

• 6:40Speaker 03

  Spend their time watching true crime docs on Netflix.

• 6:43Speaker 06

  Right. Listen, if, if you love Meat Eater content and you've always wanted to get your wife to watch or listen to Meat Eater content.

• 6:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:52Speaker 06

  This is, this is for you. You know, you guys can do this together. I feel like I'm just bringing, you know, strengthening relationships through this.

• 6:59Speaker 07

  Every time I get into Sydney's car to go somewhere with her, as soon as the car is powered on, it's just immediately. Then he plunged the dagger in up to.

• 7:11Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 7:11Speaker 06

  Yeah. And, and one thing I just wanted to say, so speaking of the true crime genre, um, a lot of it out there is, you know, it's, it's someone they read some news stories through read Wikipedia and that's, and then they kind of chat about it. This is not that. This is original reporting. I talked to the people.

• 7:28Speaker 03

  Hard hitting journalism.

• 7:29Speaker 06

  Yeah. I mean, I talked to the people who were involved as long as they're willing to talk to me, the family of the victim, the law enforcement who investigated it. Um, and we tell you things that no one else has reported before.

• 7:40Speaker 07

  And I will say too, like the, the genre occasionally leans into like the lurid.

• 7:47Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 7:48Speaker 07

  voyeuristic, and this is very much not that. It's very much like straightforward empathetic reporting about pretty tragic situations.

• 7:57Speaker 03

  I just gave Jordan a lead today or yesterday on something that maybe someday it will end up in the podcast. We'll see.

• 8:04Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 8:06Speaker 03

  I'm not going to say anymore about that.

• 8:07Speaker 06

  Yeah, we'll see. I'm looking into it.

• 8:09Speaker 03

  Yeah. All right, guys, we're going to move on because we got a bunch to talk about today. Uh, for our first interview today, we've got Mike Kautz. I hope I pronounced that right. He, Mike is the Vice President of Access and Infrastructure at American Prairie, which was formerly American Prairie Reserve. They recently simplified it and they're just American Prairie now. I hope I'm getting that right. Uh, anyway, American Prairie is an organization with, with a goal of restoring and preserving short grass prairie ecosystems in central and northern Montana. It's, it's an ecosystem that's kind of suffering all over the country and, and these guys are, are doing a lot of good work

• 8:50Speaker 03

  here in, in Montana. And, and a big part of that plan, what, what they're, what they might be known for the best is reestablishing wild bison populations, uh, in that part of Montana. We got Mike on the line, Phil.

• 9:06Speaker 05

  Here's Mike.

• 9:08Speaker 03

  Mike.

• 9:08Speaker 08

  Hey, guys.

• 9:09Speaker 03

  Thanks for joining us today. Um.

• 9:12Speaker 08

  You're having us.

• 9:12Speaker 03

  To, to start out, just give folks like the real quick version of, of who American Prairie is, wh- what they do and, and how they operate as far as acquiring property to, to build into this collection of, of hopefully interconnected short grass prairie landscapes.

• 9:34Speaker 08

  Sure, sure. So, American Prairie is a Montana-based nonprofit. Uh, we've been around for over 20 years now. And, uh, as you mentioned, our goal is to, uh, and our work is to, um, to buy and acquire land that we manage for public access, uh, and for wildlife habitat, um, along the Missouri Breaks and the Charles M. Russell National Wildlife Refuge, so that eventually we have enough habitat to, uh, restore an intact, uh, prairie short grass ecosystem. And, uh, we work on a willing buyer, willing selling, uh, willing seller model. And, uh, we've, uh, done, uh, I think over 50 land transactions at this point, um, and, uh.

• 10:18Speaker 03

  How many total acres, Mike?

• 10:20Speaker 08

  Uh, right now, we're sitting at about six hundred and three thousand acres of deed and leased land.

• 10:26Speaker 03

  Just a little bit.

• 10:28Speaker 08

  Um, it's, it's a lot of driving.

• 10:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Um, my favorite part of the state up there where you guys are working. Now, now you mentioned that it's a willing seller, willing buyer situations when you're acquiring these properties. But I'd kind of be remiss to like not address the fact that up in that part of Montana, there's like a certain

• 10:56Speaker 03

  group of people, like not everyone, but like there, there's definitely like some pushback from some of the locals in that part of the state about what you guys are doing. And I just want to give you a chance to like speak to that and, and let us know what's going on with that.

• 11:13Speaker 08

  Yeah, absolutely. I think any big conservation project is not without controversy and, and we're certainly no exception to that. So when you drive in that part of the state, you'll see, uh, save the cowboy, stop American prairie signs. Those are produced by United Property Owners of Montana, which I encourage anyone listening to this and folks who are from outside the state and trying to study up on this. Um, you can just go to their website and see what they're, see what they're about. Um, and some of this is, is simply, um, you know, a disagreement over, uh, how you, how you manage landscape.

• 11:52Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 11:53Speaker 08

  And some of it is, uh, I think concern over, uh, you know, changes, um, you know, in the region and some of it's just that we're new, you know, again, 20 years in Montana is, is an eye blink. And so some of it's just been, uh, we had to go out there and, um, earn trust, say what we're going to do and then back that up with action. And so I think what you find is you go out, you talk to our over the fence neighbors. You talk to the more than 60, uh, ranchers in the region that we partner with on, uh, on leasing grass or working through our Wild Sky program together. Uh, you find that actually we, we have great relationships and I think.

• 12:38Speaker 08

  You know, head on, uh, we are not the enemy of Montana agriculture.

• 12:43Speaker 03

  Sure. Yeah. I mean.

• 12:44Speaker 08

  Agriculture does great. Um, the reason that we can do this in this part of the world is because all of the good stewardship that Montana ranchers, um, have carried out for generations on this landscape. And often we find that we actually have the same goal, which is that we're hoping that and working to have this landscape look much like it does right now.

• 13:05Speaker 03

  Right.

• 13:05Speaker 08

  Slightly different methods there sometimes, but at the end of the day, we want this place to, you know, as you were saying, it is one of the most spectacular parts. Not only Montana, but the entire United States.

• 13:16Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 13:16Speaker 08

  And we're all working to make sure it stays that way.

• 13:19Speaker 03

  And something I'll point out is that, um, on, uh, like, I'm not sure, like, what percentage of, of the acreage this is true on, but there's still cattle ranching going on, on, on some of your properties.

• 13:34Speaker 08

  Yeah. And, and again, that's, you know, I think, you know, when folks say, hey, that there, there's controversy around this. A lot of that controversy is simply coming from a lack of understanding of what we actually do.

• 13:46Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 13:46Speaker 08

  So, you know, we're, we're sometimes, uh, get cast as like these bison folks who want wild bison everywhere.

• 13:55Speaker 08

  We manage our bison as livestock, so we disease test them. They're contained behind fences. They, they're not wild, free roaming bison.

• 14:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:03Speaker 08

  They're an important part of conserving them as a species, but they're not wild and free roaming. And, um, we have about eight hundred and fifty bison right now on two properties. We have over seven thousand cattle.

• 14:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:17Speaker 08

  On our properties. So, uh, most of our properties, the grazer that does that role in the ecosystem, you know, which again is a really important one is, is cattle. And, um, and again, I was listening to Cal on the Joe Rogan podcast this week while I was driving and. It was awesome to hear him talking in front of such a huge audience about the value of prairies and that prairies globally are disappearing faster than any other ecosystem. And we have one of the best chances to, to, to set aside and protect some of our remaining grasslands anywhere in the world, right here in Montana.

• 14:54Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 14:54Speaker 08

  And so hearing him talk to Joe about that was awesome. And, and yet even Cal, who again, I mean, he's, he's here in Montana, um, you know, had a couple of bits of misinformation about American Prairie, you know, our, our money doesn't come from the Dutch. Ninety seven percent is from within the United States and our bison don't come from Yellowstone. Um, they came from Elk Island in Canada and, and we've done trades with some of our tribal neighbors who have Yellowstone genetics in their herd. But, but again, I think that's, and, and not to give Cal a hard time.

• 15:25Speaker 03

  No, no, we'll make sure he, he, he hears this for sure.

• 15:28Speaker 07

  We don't, we don't, uh, let go any chance to correct Cal on.

• 15:33Speaker 08

  Oh, well, you can tell, you can tell him he shanked it on that one.

• 15:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:36Speaker 08

  And it was just a mess, but.

• 15:38Speaker 03

  He's a good guy. He, he'll acknowledge that he got it wrong and, and make a correction.

• 15:43Speaker 08

  But, uh, but you know, I, I think it just speaks to look, you know, here's somebody who's really well educated on conservation in Montana and around the U S, but still had some of, you know, these sort of persistent, um, you know, miss misinformation about what we actually do. And, and a lot of that's on us, like we gotta make sure we're out here talking about saying, you know, you know, we're a bunch of Montanans, we're a Montana nonprofit, buying land, opening up to public access, managing it for wildlife.

• 16:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, let, let's, let's talk about that. I mean, one of the great things about American Prairie is that most, if not, I, I'm not sure if it's all of your properties, but most of the properties are open to public access for recreational purposes, which, you know, it could be hiking, wildlife viewing. I think you guys have a campground, um, there's fishing opportunities and there's hunting opportunities. American Prairie runs a lottery for, but for several bison hunting opportunities. Uh, Randall's wife last year took advantage of that and got herself, got herself, was a great, she shot a big bull, didn't she?

• 16:54Speaker 07

  No, no, she, she had one of the yearling.

• 16:56Speaker 03

  Oh, I got you.

• 16:57Speaker 07

  She had one of the yearling tags, but honestly, the, one of the coolest, wildest. Hunting experiences of my life.

• 17:02Speaker 03

  You guys still eating that thing?

• 17:04Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah.

• 17:04Speaker 03

  Nice.

• 17:05Speaker 07

  Yeah, we just got the hideback.

• 17:06Speaker 03

  Um, so beyond the bison thing, like you can go on these properties and hunt small game, upland birds, waterfowl, big game through Montana's block management program, which is a public access to private land program. It's like one of the best programs and if not the best program of that type in the entire country as far as I'm concerned. So like, I mean, if you're an outdoorsman, you should just be like supporting this, I think. Um, it's a very good opportunity, which leads us to kind of the latest big story that involves American

• 17:45Speaker 03

  Prairie. Uh, so Mike, tell us about Bullwhacker Road, the Wilkes Brothers, and your, your latest acquisition and why it's such an important public access win for all kinds of outdoors enthusiasts, including hunters.

• 18:04Speaker 08

  Yeah. I mean, this has been one of the things we've been most excited about over the last couple of years here. Um, we closed on a property called the Anchor Ranch, uh, that's on the north side of the Missouri River, about 70 miles southeast of Haver and the High Line and, um, 66,000 acres of deeded and leased land. But most importantly, uh, the deeded land includes a four mile section of the Bullwhacker Road that was, you know, in and out of court. Um, you know, Brett French from the Billings Gazette has done some awesome reporting on this. Anyone who's really interested in this kind of stuff can, can look up his articles, but essentially you had a four mile section of road that was landlocked in over 50,000 acres of public land, uh, mostly BLM, a few state sections

• 18:49Speaker 08

  in there. Uh, and normally when we, when we buy a property, we take about a year to figure out all the public access and, you know, um, Do a full review of it. This we were so excited about this. We opened the road right away.

• 19:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:04Speaker 08

  And said, look, you know, this, this one's too important to, you know, sit on for a year. We're going to open it. At least this section. And it's, it's just one of the most historic parts of the Northern Great Plains too, and has a fascinating history. It's, you know, part of the Cow Creek, which runs through part of the property was part of the Nez Perce Trail. So where Chief Joseph led his people up from the Missouri River and the Ford where they crossed on foot up into the Bears Paw Mountains. The Bullwhacker Road. I mean, it's named that because there were guys, you know, whipping bulls up out of the Missouri River. Because a lot of years, the steamboats from St. Louis could only get up to about that point. So incredible history.

• 19:46Speaker 08

  And just an incredible landscape, you know, whether it's in hunting season or whether it's in the spring, you go down in there. I mean, it's just, you know, an absolute maze of Cooley's and Prairie Canyons and, you know, an incredible place to get lost. And, and to go explore.

• 20:03Speaker 03

  And again, again, like this, this will now open up 50,000 acres of what was landlocked. Public land, correct?

• 20:14Speaker 08

  Yep, exactly. And so, I mean, again, a lot of your listeners have probably seen on X and, Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnerships reports on landlocked public land around the country. And there's millions of acres. And, you know, one of our goals with, with property purchases is to look at those ones where, you know, boy, if we bought that deed it, it opens up this amount of public land too. You know, we, a couple of years ago, we bought one on the Muscle Shell, called the 73, that had 10,000 acres landlocked by, I mean, it was essentially 100 feet of two track.

• 20:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:49Speaker 08

  Across the deed it.

• 20:50Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 20:50Speaker 08

  So wherever possible, we do that. And, and yeah, as you mentioned, you know, the vast majority of our deed at acres are open to public access year round.

• 21:00Speaker 07

  And Mike, when that, when that 73 ranch sold, I mean, I know there was an attempt to buy the, by the BLM, I believe, to, to acquire. They were unable to, given the sort of strictures around federal land acquisitions. But someone was going to buy that land. Right, like, like that property was for sale, someone was gonna buy it. And so in this case, because American Prairie was the buyer, all that landlocked public land is now open to the public in addition to the access that you guys provide through block management.

• 21:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:31Speaker 07

  It's just a big win. Yeah.

• 21:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:33Speaker 08

  And both of those properties too are examples of, you know, large properties that were formerly owned by out of state owners largely as either private hunting properties or as, you know, amenity properties or investments. Um, and so, you know, again, we think a Montana based nonprofit, um, now owning them, now managing it for public access for wildlife habitat. I mean, that's, that's a, a net positive.

• 22:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:01Speaker 08

  I'm sitting in this room, having given a presentation last week where I was showing these, you know, these charts for what the, the growth of populations in Montana have done over the last couple of years since COVID. I mean, we're sitting here in Bozeman, uh, and see that, you know, it's grown by eighty six percent in the Gallatin Valley.

• 22:19Speaker 03

  This is supposed to be good news, Mike.

• 22:23Speaker 08

  So here's the other, you know, to set up the, the good news, that this is what public land, you know, has done. It's essentially flat.

• 22:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:31Speaker 08

  And not only that, but I mean, Cal has done such an incredible job and all of you, you know, media or backcountry hunters and anglers in fighting uh, the efforts to sell off public land recently. But so not only have we not been creating more public land necessarily, um, you know, we've even had, you know, uh, proposals to sell it off. Um, so I, I think that's part of the bigger, bigger world in which we operate is, look, we are trying our hardest to, to shift that a little bit, you know, because we, as a species, we certainly are making more people, more of ourselves. Uh, we're not necessarily, um, you know, doing as much to create more good publicly accessible land. And that's a big part of what gets me up every day and, and, and into the office and out in the field.

• 23:15Speaker 03

  Yeah. Um, so, uh, God asks, new property, is it open to hunting?

• 23:21Speaker 08

  Not this year. So this is where we gotta take it to, and as you were saying, you know, BMA contracts, generally we finalize those in May or June.

• 23:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, it just wasn't, the timing wasn't right.

• 23:34Speaker 08

  Exactly, exactly. So I'd say stay tuned, you know, we'll have a public access, um, you know, policy, I'd say by, by next summer and certainly by the, the next hunting season. So, but

• 23:46Speaker 03

  What about, but the road is open.

• 23:49Speaker 08

  Road is open. So, so folks can access all of the BLM and state land to the south. Um, and also I'll just give my usual safety plug, like, don't drive your minivan down in there. Don't take the Corolla.

• 24:04Speaker 03

  Watch the weather forecast.

• 24:06Speaker 08

  Watch the weather forecast. Right now, I just had a meeting with some of the BLM Monument folks this week and they were saying there's a, there's a VW SUV rented from the Billings Airport that's been sitting down in there since about May.

• 24:21Speaker 03

  Nice.

• 24:22Speaker 08

  And they couldn't get it out. So it's, it's rugged. You know, you gotta do your homework before you drive down in there.

• 24:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, don't even try if it's gonna rain or snow. It's good advice, I think.

• 24:35Speaker 03

  Mike, before we, we let you go, um, thanks for all, this really is good news.

• 24:43Speaker 03

  Can you pull out your crystal ball and kind of give us an idea of what we can expect from American Prairie kind of in the near future and, and kind of lay out like what best case scenario end goal would be for you guys?

• 24:59Speaker 08

  Yeah, absolutely. Um, so I think, again, we recognize, hey, being around for 20 years, you know, we're still earning trust and that goes for, you know, the general public, it goes for ranchers, it goes for hunters, it goes for. You know, folks who are just curious about, you know, what this thing is they've heard of. So I'd say continue to look to us to, um, you know, illustrate our, um, or to, to underwrite our words with deeds. You know, in terms of public access, you know, I used to, um, get questions like, hey, are you guys, you know, is this some sort of bait and switch? Are you guys just offering public access and then you're going to like lock the gates up?

• 25:37Speaker 03

  Right. That's something I've heard.

• 25:38Speaker 08

  Absolutely not. Like we buy properties that have conservation easements on them. This year we donated a hundred and nine acres to the state of Montana to create a state park at Judith Landing.

• 25:49Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 25:49Speaker 08

  Um, you know, we open previously landlocked public land across our deeded roads and, and then assume the costs of maintaining those roads. So I'd say continue to judge us on what we do and, and, uh, you know, I think we often say, look, you know, we're not asking, um, for support or endorsement. You know, do your homework, come to your own conclusion, but we, we do ask for understanding, like just, just understand what we're actually doing. And in terms of public access, yeah, I think it's probably going to look a lot like what you see right now where, you know, we're in the top 10 largest landowners in the state enrolled in that block management access program with F W P. They're an incredible agency to work with for your listeners outside the state.

• 26:31Speaker 08

  I mean, Montana is truly the last best place, I think, as an outdoors person and as a hunter in particular. Um, so it's a lot of, you know, it's over 80,000 acres, uh, available, um, to hunt in that program. Uh, we're building a couple more backcountry huts in our hut system, uh, over the next two years. So you'll see more of those and just more chances to, uh, explore different parts of the prairie. Those of you who've been up there know that, you know, some of it's like incredibly steep rugged Missouri breaks, ponderosa pines, kind of bighorn sheep habitat. And then you get out on other parts and it's kind of the rolling sagebrush sea. And, uh, you know, we want to create opportunities for people to go out and explore that and, and understand why this place is, is so special and so worth,

• 27:15Speaker 08

  uh, protecting and handing on to the next generation.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  Cool. Um, what can people do to support you if they're interested in doing that?

• 27:25Speaker 08

  I'd say, you know, hey, from my standpoint, it's come out and visit us.

• 27:28Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 27:28Speaker 08

  Come out and see what it looks like on the ground. Uh, and you can plan a trip by just going to our website, americanprairie.org. We do have campgrounds, we have huts, but you can also just go out and um, load up your backpack and walk off, you know, into the prairie and uh, and spend the night. So I just encourage people to go up there and make a visit. Uh, and put your name in the hat for the bison harvest we offer. Um, it is.

• 27:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, I've done it so far, having drawn Mike, so you know, just saying. Just saying.

• 27:58Speaker 08

  Keep putting in.

• 27:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:01Speaker 03

  Um, thanks a lot, Mike. It was great talking to you. We'll have to check back in with you, you know, and see if something's happening. Get in touch with us and, and we'll talk again.

• 28:10Speaker 08

  Will do, will do.

• 28:12Speaker 03

  All right, thanks, Ben.

• 28:13Speaker 08

  We'll see you, guys.

• 28:15Speaker 02

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• 29:29Steven Rinella?

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• 29:56Speaker 03

  Okay, it's time to move on to some whitetail week stuff. We're gonna do a throwback Thursday whitetail edition.

• 30:03Speaker 04

  Throwback on a Thursday morning. Steven Brody, take me back to 1974.

• 30:12Speaker 07

  Good tune.

• 30:12Speaker 04

  Throwback, I can't believe it. Did I mention Steven Brody are old as shit?

• 30:21Speaker 03

  I think you have mentioned that. Yeah, several times, I think. All right, guys, this is where we're gonna, we're gonna pull out the, the memories today and let you guys share some, uh, some whitetail stuff with us. I think you're up first, Randall.

• 30:36Speaker 07

  All righty, Phil.

• 30:38Speaker 03

  Oh, yes.

• 30:39Speaker 07

  I'll point out this picture is colored very strangely. It's an archaic digital camera.

• 30:46Speaker 07

  It captures my skin tone and blaze orange in a really weird way. But that blood trail on the right.

• 30:54Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 30:55Speaker 07

  Shows up real nice.

• 30:56Speaker 03

  See that, wow.

• 30:57Speaker 07

  This, this, this is, uh, my biggest whitetail buck. Um, I, I was working construction at the time in 2008. And I was gonna go down to a, uh, property in Kentucky that we had permission to hunt. And on Friday, I was at the job site, had my truck all loaded up and they, uh, pulled me aside and told me I was getting let go. And as soon as, uh, as soon as they handed me my Cobra paperwork.

• 31:24Speaker 03

  For poor performance?

• 31:25Speaker 07

  No, no, 2008, man.

• 31:28Speaker 03

  Oh, I gotcha.

• 31:29Speaker 07

  Yeah, it was a big slowdown, so.

• 31:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:32Speaker 07

  They, I, I said, you know, I, I'm 22, I think I'll be fine and I'm going deer hunting. So my buddy went down there and hunted with me the first weekend, I just stayed through the week. And then he came down for the second weekend. And, uh, on day, there's probably like day nine, this is what, I mean, this is my idea of whitetail hunting was just, I'm gonna sit in the same tree.

• 31:54Speaker 03

  Right.

• 31:54Speaker 07

  For like eight days, nine days in a row. I had a little crotch board set up there. And uh, some point like my buddy was just gonna walk across the property at about ten or eleven o'clock.

• 32:05Speaker 03

  Do a little push.

• 32:06Speaker 07

  Yeah, it's like a, it's like a hilltop property that's sort of bald on top and then uh, like real dense stuff going down these fingers down to the creek. So my buddy went across and I could hear him walking and then all of a sudden this buck, I'm, I'm basically set up uh, on an old tractor road, like an old tractor path going down this hill and this buck just crosses and so I whip around uh, and shoot off the back of the tree as he's about to dive back into the woods and he turns and runs straight away from me and I got off another shot. Sort of ironic that we're talking to Tyler here in a bit because uh, that was with a forty-five seventy. Shooting uh.

• 32:47Speaker 03

  Cause Ohio is shotguns and straight walls?

• 32:49Speaker 07

  This is, this is Kentucky.

• 32:51Speaker 03

  Oh, that was Kentucky. I got you.

• 32:53Speaker 07

  Well, it's just cause the romance of the, the big straight wall cartridges the size of your finger. And uh, turns out that first shot missed, but that second one.

• 33:03Speaker 03

  Did the trick.

• 33:04Speaker 07

  Did the old, did the old uh, Texas heart shot.

• 33:07Speaker 06

  Very good.

• 33:07Speaker 07

  Uh, entered just inside of the ham, right near the anus, came out uh, the front of that left hip and uh, yeah, it was.

• 33:18Speaker 03

  Now, normally that's, that's not a shot that we would recommend here at Meat Eater, but Randall is like such a marksman.

• 33:26Speaker 07

  Well, that was, that was a follow up.

• 33:29Speaker 03

  I know.

• 33:29Speaker 07

  That was a follow up.

• 33:31Speaker 06

  We don't really think that.

• 33:32Speaker 07

  Yeah, and um, you know, we went over there and, and actually the, the landowner who was our scout master showed up like right then and he's, he's British and doesn't, I mean, he was just excited to have us hunting there and he goes, "Oh, you got a buck, you got a buck, let's see it." And he drove the tractor down and we chained it up to the, he, he like just fixed up antique tractors. Then we hauled that thing up out of the bottom and that was all she wrote.

• 33:56Speaker 03

  That's still your biggest buck to date? Biggest whitetail buck?

• 33:59Speaker 07

  It is, yeah.

• 34:00Speaker 03

  Where, where is that? What's, where is that thing now?

• 34:03Speaker 07

  Oh, it's, I've got, in my home office, I've got like nine deer heads just kinda scattered.

• 34:09Speaker 03

  Euro mount?

• 34:10Speaker 07

  On the little wall above it. Yeah, Euro mount. That's a homemade Euro mount too.

• 34:13Speaker 03

  Nice.

• 34:14Speaker 07

  So uh, yeah.

• 34:15Speaker 03

  Nice.

• 34:16Speaker 07

  Fun place. I wish I still uh, got to hunt that every year, cause yeah, deer in the rut with a rifle.

• 34:23Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 34:23Speaker 07

  Speaks to me.

• 34:25Speaker 03

  All right, Jordan, you're up next. Let's see what you got here.

• 34:28Speaker 06

  All right, so this isn't from super long ago. This is a few years ago. This was at a property pretty near to where we live in East Texas. And I really like it. It's, it's, I don't own it, but we have permission to hunt it. And I like it because it's so close to our house. I can take the kids, you know, evening, Sunday evening, which is when I shot this buck.

• 34:51Speaker 06

  And I also like remembering this hunt because it was, I don't think it was quite the last day of the season, but it was the last day that I was gonna hunt. I think it was right before the last day. And this buck came in like five minutes, maybe, before shooting light ended. If, if he'd been in the tree line I was looking at in the stand, I might not have, you know, been able to see him. But he came in across a field, and so I could see his silhouette, you know, against the, the sky that was still bright. And in Texas, we have antler restrictions, so it has to be 13 inches between. And I saw him, you know, silhouetted against the sky, and I said, "Looks good." "Looks, looks like it's gonna be good."

• 35:35Speaker 06

  So, um, shot him from maybe 50 yards. It was not a far shot with, with a 6'5" Creedmoor. And he went, you know, maybe 40 or 50 yards, but he ran kinda into the, the tree line. And so there was a little bit of tension. And my, my son was with me, and he, you know, if, if hunting ever becomes boring or, you know, kind of a drudgery, like take an eight-year-old boy, you know, with you. Cause he was the most excited. He was high-fiving, "Good job."

• 36:08Speaker 07

  Was that the first deer he'd, he'd been a part of?

• 36:11Speaker 06

  It was, yeah. He'd, he'd been around when I'd brought deer home to like, you know, clean them and butcher them. But this was the first one, the, the first hunt that he'd been a part of.

• 36:20Speaker 03

  Is he now, is he hunting now?

• 36:21Speaker 06

  He is, yeah. He got, he got a doe last year.

• 36:23Speaker 03

  Oh, great.

• 36:23Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 36:24Speaker 03

  Great.

• 36:24Speaker 06

  Yeah. So he came down with, you know, with me, and, and I like wanted to do it right, like find some blood, follow the trail.

• 36:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:30Speaker 06

  But he just like right into the woods, you know? And of course, he found it first and just like so excited. Yeah.

• 36:37Speaker 03

  That's okay. Well, cool. You gonna get him after a buck this year?

• 36:41Speaker 06

  He, yeah, he wants to.

• 36:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:43Speaker 06

  That's for sure. Um, but we'll see.

• 36:46Speaker 03

  All right. Yes, that leaves me. Um, this is, when was this? Like, I don't know.

• 36:54Speaker 07

  Mid 2000s.

• 36:55Speaker 03

  A little, no, it was like.

• 36:56Speaker 05

  Same, same camera quality as Randall's.

• 36:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was like, right around the same time as, what'd you say, oh eight?

• 37:02Speaker 07

  Yeah, I bet this camera ran on a double A battery.

• 37:05Speaker 03

  Yes. Um, anyway, this is back in Pennsylvania where like this is a place I, I grew up hunting. It's my buddy, buddy's dad's land. My buddy's dad has now passed away, but my buddy still hunts his property. Um, and this, this was the, the first like big, nice buck I had ever shot in Pennsylvania. Um, grew up deer hunting, but like when I was growing up, man, like there just wasn't very many big bucks around like this one. They just didn't live long enough. We, we'd, we'd see a shit ton of deer hunting, but it would be like 22 does and a spike, um, in a day of hunting and like

• 37:48Speaker 03

  you just shot whatever buck you had a chance to shoot. Um, this picture was taken, I think maybe a couple of years after they, the state implemented antler point restrictions in Pennsylvania's antler point restrictions aren't uh, like width like Texas. It's, um, at the time it was, most of the state was three on one side and this in northwestern Pennsylvania, it was three on one side plus a brow time. Um, and, and a lot of guys were like

• 38:23Speaker 03

  very against the, this new regulation at the time, but it really started paying off quickly like uh, uh, you know, a percentage at like of those year and a half old bucks, a large percentage of those year and a half but old bucks that would have gotten shot now had a chance to at least get to another year and, and now in Pennsylvania, like they're killing big bucks, which was just not a thing that happened very often when, when I was a kid. So yeah, that's my, like my one and only nice big Pennsylvania buck there.

• 38:58Speaker 03

  Nice.

• 38:58Speaker 06

  The same thing happened in Texas where, where people were very against the antler restrictions at first. And now you talk to pretty much everyone and they say it was a good thing.

• 39:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:06Speaker 06

  You know, we're seeing a lot more big deer.

• 39:07Speaker 03

  It worked some places. It doesn't work others. They've like Colorado tried it with mule deer. It was just like, it didn't work. Just like, it was a failed experiment, but like it's definitely worked in Pennsylvania. Uh, all right, Phil, do we got some action in the chat?

• 39:25Speaker 05

  Got a lot of action.

• 39:26Speaker 07

  Oh geez.

• 39:27Speaker 05

  Kind of play. I'm, I'm, I'm being less picky about my, my questions here since I've been getting so many complaints about it.

• 39:34Speaker 05

  Leland, I've heard you ask this question, I think for a month now, so I'm just going to bring it up. Let's get it out of the way. What are the functional differences between alpaca and merino wool, if any? If any of you can speak to this.

• 39:45Speaker 03

  Uh, this question should be directed to the experts at first light.

• 39:49Speaker 07

  Yeah, this sounds like a first light customer service question.

• 39:55Speaker 05

  Sorry, Leland. Uh, thanks for being here.

• 39:56Speaker 07

  Never tried alpaca socks.

• 39:59Speaker 05

  Uh, here we go. Question for Randall and the chat regarding hot dogs. Anyone made venison hot dogs? Have you done this, Randall? Tips on doing so?

• 40:07Speaker 07

  I have not. Steve and I were just talking yesterday about making a video, trying to make the best venison hot dog.

• 40:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, closest I've come is making brats.

• 40:15Speaker 07

  You do, I mean, my understanding is that you do truly, to address the last sentence there, uh, you do truly have to emulsify it.

• 40:24Speaker 07

  Just make it into goo.

• 40:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:26Speaker 07

  The tough thing is going to be the snap. So we're, we were discussing that yesterday. You want a good, a good positive snap on the dog. Uh, but we will hopefully, uh, address this in a video at some point.

• 40:40Speaker 05

  Cool. Uh, Ian asks on the heels of the CWD podcast, how often do you guys get your deer and elk tested?

• 40:46Speaker 03

  I get them all.

• 40:47Speaker 05

  Known areas or, or with signs on the animal cause you?

• 40:50Speaker 03

  I've just gone to get them all tested, man. Um. And in some places like where I'm gonna hunt in Colorado this year, it's mandatory.

• 41:02Speaker 03

  And other places it's voluntary, but I've just like, I just get them all tested now.

• 41:08Speaker 07

  I just, I test them when they're required and obviously like in Montana here, we have big game checkpoints. And so they sort of catch you in a funnel to track animals moving across the state. And so at some of those they'll test.

• 41:24Speaker 07

  But yeah, I haven't, I don't think I've ever voluntarily submitted something for testing.

• 41:29Speaker 03

  Yeah. Um, if you had kids.

• 41:31Speaker 07

  I'm not proud of that.

• 41:32Speaker 03

  If you had kids, you might look at it.

• 41:33Speaker 07

  Yeah, or if I valued my own health.

• 41:36Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, it's not, yeah.

• 41:39Speaker 07

  That's a joke. That's a joke.

• 41:40Speaker 03

  I, I know. Um, Jordan, you do any of that down in?

• 41:45Speaker 06

  I.

• 41:45Speaker 03

  Those Texans just don't care.

• 41:48Speaker 06

  Yeah, I don't. Well, our, our CWD problem, um, you know, tends to be with the breeding facilities.

• 41:54Speaker 03

  Well, it's like that everywhere. I mean, when you look at like the spread, a map from like the, I think it's USGS, maybe it's Fish and Wildlife. I don't know. But you can look at a map and see where these outbreaks start. And it's like, almost guaranteed that in the center of that thing.

• 42:10Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 42:11Speaker 03

  There's a high fence.

• 42:12Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 42:12Speaker 03

  Can hunt operation.

• 42:13Speaker 06

  Yeah. And there are, I know there are areas where the wild population, you know, there is, um, a problem and there may be mandatory testing there, but not where, where I've been hunting.

• 42:25Speaker 05

  Uh, speaking of kids, question for Brody and Jordan. Adam's taking his six-year-old daughter on her first hunt this weekend, DIY blind in the woods. Do I let her try and shoot? Or just sit and watch me do it? I want to give her a good experience.

• 42:38Speaker 03

  There is too many unknowns here. Like, has she practiced? Has she put in the time?

• 42:45Speaker 07

  Does she want to?

• 42:46Speaker 03

  Does she want to? Has she been exposed to it at all yet?

• 42:52Speaker 03

  I, what hunt? I'm assuming deer, uh, but I don't know. I'm assuming it's a deer. From, in my opinion, like you see a lot of pictures of five or six-year-old kids, like holding the buck up.

• 43:08Speaker 03

  In my opinion, it's a little too early, simply because they don't really know what they're doing.

• 43:13Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 43:14Speaker 03

  They like don't understand it yet. It's not that you can't set them up with a rifle that'll work and stuff like that. So I would probably do the shooting and see how she reacts if she hasn't had any exposure to it yet. Jordan, you?

• 43:32Speaker 07

  Yeah, no, I totally agree with that. And you know, if you get something, that's plenty of excitement for a shooter.

• 43:37Speaker 03

  Sure, and walk it, walk through the skin and the gut and all, like, all that stuff tends to, like, as long as you don't be like, this is gonna be a little gross. Like, don't do any of that. Just like, do it and they're probably gonna be fascinated by it.

• 43:53Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 43:53Speaker 05

  Jackson asks, do you think the same arguments against crossbows, AKA arrow guns, according to Brody, should be applied to the use of TSS turkey loads and long-range rifles? Never used a crossbow, but have always thought the hate was odd.

• 44:05Speaker 03

  I, I agree. I don't get the hate.

• 44:10Speaker 03

  What's he talking about? Turkey loads?

• 44:13Speaker 07

  Yeah, like the super.

• 44:14Speaker 03

  No, like, there's like, no way. They're just like, like, you argue against being more effective at killing turkeys? Like, I don't, I don't agree with that. And I don't think there's like, any possible way you could like.

• 44:29Speaker 07

  Turn back the clock on it.

• 44:30Speaker 03

  Turn back the clock and the long-range rifles, it's like, like, I, I don't see how you could even come up with an enforceable regulation.

• 44:40Speaker 07

  Yeah, I mean, the only thing, the only thing that I'm familiar with is the Idaho restriction on, you can't have a rifle heavier than 16 pounds.

• 44:49Speaker 03

  I had no idea.

• 44:51Speaker 07

  And I do have a rifle that. What doesn't meet that Idaho.

• 44:55Speaker 03

  Right.

• 44:55Speaker 07

  Restriction.

• 44:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, you do.

• 44:57Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah.

• 44:59Speaker 07

  But no one should really own a rifle over sixteen

• 45:01Speaker 03

  But I agree, like the arguments like against crossbows, like I just don't get it. Like, everybody's like, oh, the sky is falling, all the deer are gonna get killed. Like, why, you can go hunt elk with a crossbow, as far as I know, in Wyoming during archery season. And, like, there hasn't been, like, any change. There's, and there's still plenty of whitetails where crossbows are legal. Like, I don't get the hate, but, whatever.

• 45:25Speaker 07

  Some, some bow hunters, I'd rather that they have a crossbow.

• 45:28Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 45:29Speaker 07

  For the sake of the animals.

• 45:31Speaker 03

  Yes, yeah. Um, I know there's people, other people here at MeatEater that probably wouldn't agree with the crossbow.

• 45:38Speaker 07

  No, I, I started hunting with a crossbow, um, cause I didn't have, like, an archery background. My parents didn't hunt, but I was, they were encouraging, and you could go out and get a crossbow, and you knew how to sight it in, and, yeah, we're drilling deer at, you know, fifty yards, and, and super effective.

• 45:57Speaker 03

  Yeah. What do you think?

• 45:59Speaker 06

  Yeah. I mean, I, I agree, it's, um, you know, fears of all the deer being gone, definitely overblown. I think if you've spent, you know, hours and hours trying to shoot a compound bow accurately, and then someone comes in with a crossbow, um, I, I do understand that.

• 46:16Speaker 03

  But you could say the same, you could say this, like, the trad bow guys could say the same exact thing, like, those compound guys, it's so easy, they got sights and all, like, it's just a never-ending cascade of arguments.

• 46:28Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 46:29Speaker 03

  Method of take arguments that end up just being horseshit, as far, as far as I'm concerned.

• 46:33Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, I think the, the, the, whatever species population, that should be the first concern.

• 46:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:39Speaker 06

  You know, and if that's not a concern, it's maybe not worth getting too worked up about.

• 46:44Speaker 03

  There you go. Any more, Phil?

• 46:46Speaker 05

  I mean, we've got a lot of, let's do one more, and then save the rest for, uh, the end of the show, and then any additional ones. Since the publishing team is here.

• 46:53Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 46:53Speaker 05

  When is MeatEater going to come out with a book made for babies?

• 46:57Speaker 03

  I, I don't, I don't think you're gonna see that. Never say never. Uh, maybe Jordan will write one.

• 47:03Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 47:04Speaker 03

  You still having babies?

• 47:06Speaker 06

  We have a one and a two-year-old.

• 47:07Speaker 03

  Jordan's your man.

• 47:08Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 47:09Speaker 03

  Yeah. I'm like, way past that point, man. I don't even remember what it was like for my kids to be babies.

• 47:16Speaker 07

  And, and I'll just put out there that we know what books we're writing until

• 47:21Speaker 03

  Till we die.

• 47:22Speaker 07

  Twenty twenty-eight at this point, so.

• 47:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, not something I'd I'd count on.

• 47:28Speaker 05

  Great.

• 47:30Speaker 03

  All right. We're all done with those, Phil?

• 47:32Speaker 05

  Unless you want to keep going, but we can, we've got the end of the show.

• 47:34Speaker 03

  What time is it?

• 47:36Speaker 05

  Uh, we're, we're running a little long, so we can.

• 47:37Speaker 03

  All right, there we go. Let's, let's move on to our next interview.

• 47:42Speaker 03

  Um, all right, everybody. Our next guest is Tyler Freel, who is a writer for Outdoor Life, and he hosts, uh, his own podcast called Tundra Talk. And if you didn't catch Tyler on the Meat Eater Podcast, we had him on, I think, I don't know, a year, like, Last hunting season, I think. Yeah, episode 506. You can, you can check it out. Um, and if you're not familiar with his work, uh, just like Jordan Sillars's here, he, he has a wealth of knowledge about firearms and rifle cartridges in particular. And that's mostly what we're going to chat about with him today. Tyler, you, you on the line, buddy?

• 48:19Speaker 09

  Yeah, I think so.

• 48:21Speaker 03

  Great. Um, thanks for joining us, um, from up in, up in Fairbanks, Alaska.

• 48:27Speaker 09

  I'm in, I'm in Wyoming right now.

• 48:29Speaker 03

  Oh, man, you're, what are you hunting in Wyoming?

• 48:30Speaker 03

  Oh, you could come in person. What are you hunting in Wyoming?

• 48:33Speaker 09

  I shot, I shot a nice antelope yesterday.

• 48:36Speaker 03

  Great. I'm about to do that in a week or so. Um, before we get into shooting great big animals with teeny little rifle cartridges, how'd, how'd your moose hunt go?

• 48:46Speaker 09

  Uh, it was pretty disappointing this year.

• 48:49Speaker 03

  That's funny because I heard the same, uh, from some other people. It was a tough hunt this year up there.

• 48:55Speaker 09

  Yeah, you know, I don't, people like to blame it on a lot of things. We, we spent 14 days hunting and the first 10 days are kind of in the prime time. And where we hunt, we have to call them. We're just in this swamp that you can't, there's a couple of spots we can see, but.

• 49:09Speaker 03

  You hunt out of an elevated stand, don't you?

• 49:13Speaker 09

  Yeah, we, we got a big tripod so you can get up over the brush. Otherwise, you just, you just can't see anything.

• 49:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:20Speaker 09

  And, uh, the first 10 days, basically, you know, we, we hunt, you know, five, six hours in the morning and five, six hours in the evening usually. And every time we went and called, we'd heard multiple bulls, but they just would not, they just would not come.

• 49:35Speaker 03

  Yep. Um, so as an Alaskan who hunts, like, like that getting that moose every year is, I'm assuming, kind of important. So like, how's your winter meat supply looking? And, and what are you going to do to, to make up for not getting a bull?

• 49:50Speaker 09

  Well, I'm, I'm think I'm sitting okay for now. Uh, we do depend on it, but I like having a little bit of a surplus. Um, just the way, you know, I've usually kill a bull every year. And so we, at least the, the, the, the size of my children now, we are consuming the whole thing every year.

• 50:07Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 50:07Speaker 09

  We've got, we've got a fair bit of moose and then I've got about three to 400 pounds of black bear meat.

• 50:14Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 50:15Speaker 09

  Freezer, um, that, you know, I, I make into various.

• 50:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. You guys really get after those bears, man.

• 50:23Speaker 09

  Yeah. I, I, I don't know what I, I, I love, just kill bears like I'm angry at them. I love it.

• 50:31Speaker 03

  Well, it sounds like you'll make it through the winter without starving. Um, what, what I really wanted to have you on today to talk about is, is I, I feel like you've got like a very realistic take on the effectiveness, the effectiveness of what many hunters, not all, um, but a fair amount of hunters considered to be like undersized, underpowered rifle cartridges for big game animals. Um, like I, I've kind of always found the, the hate from like the, the, the Magnum, the Magnum crowd for like

• 51:08Speaker 03

  the six, five Creedmoor in particular, to be frankly, kind of stupid. Um, I've killed a pile of deer and elk with a six, five Creedmoor and I have nothing but good things to say about its, its effectiveness. Um,

• 51:23Speaker 03

  what, you know, a lot of whitetail and antelope hunters are, they, they aren't strangers to, to use in smaller rifle cartridges, but you know, you've taken it a step further to, and proven that these smaller cartridges are capable of like cleanly killing everything from, from bears to moose. So like, talk us through how you got to that point, like how and why you became kind of like whatever you want to call it, a small cartridge evangelist.

• 51:51Speaker 09

  Yeah, and whether whether it's by my own choice or not to to that's I guess I guess where I'm at. I I grew I grew up in Southern Colorado for the most part and you know it was a lot of twenty five odd six stuff, but even after I moved to Alaska. Um, you know, I I started out with a thirty odd six I'd bought and killed just about everything with it and then um I quickly got really into sheep hunting and bought a twenty five odd six, so I just started shooting everything with that and uh you know, my family over over many years of of hunting up there, you know, my uncle always swore that a two forty three Winchester is one of the best black bear guns and it just killed piles and piles of black bears with it.

• 52:33Speaker 09

  And it was just kind of something that I just took as a matter of fact, you know, kill a moose with my twenty five odd six or you know, whatever whatever I was using. And uh, you know, and the six five Creedmoor is kind of its own thing. I was shooting competitively uh across the course doing service rifle when that was introduced and I kind of thought that sounds like it'd be a good cheap cartridge and Right. a couple of years later, when the first rifle, the first hunting rifle was public was released in it by Ruger. I got one and shot a sheep with it and with a match bullet and that's cool. Shot some black tailed deer and kind of moved on. And it was, you know, once this six five Creedmoor got popular, you know, then there was this kind of vitriol and responsive hate to it,

• 53:17Speaker 09

  which I I understand a lot of it, that a lot of the annoyance. Um, because there are, you know, quite have been quite a few fairly ignorant opinions on, you know, saying that it can do things it can't do. Right. or shouldn't really be used for. Um, now, I mean, that's kind of where I got to where I'm at and then you know, over the last, you know, we've all seen over the last few years, just the advancement in some of these smaller caliber, you know, heavy for heavy for caliber projectiles that are super efficient, um buck the wind really well. And so I've started kind of getting further and further and I'm not afraid if I if I'm do my research and I'm convinced something will work. Okay. I'm not afraid to try it. Right. So far, the results have been like really.

• 54:02Speaker 09

  Really pleasing and and since starting, you know, since working full-time for Outdoor Life, I mean, my, I shoot, I shoot a ridiculous amount. And it's just kind of just solidified a lot of points that I think a lot of times, you know, we focus on things like cartridge when, when there are a lot more important things that are going to contribute to our success. Yeah.

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• 56:05Speaker 03

  One thing I wanted to ask you, like, I'm kind of curious how you feel like when you're using, say, a 6.5 Creedmoor, even smaller cartridge, and you're shooting like larger game animals, maybe not like Whitetails or, you know, Antelope or something like that, like, how big of a role do you feel like bullet selection is playing, like, to be effective? And, and, and, like, has, like, advancement in bullet technology, like, really made it possible for these newer, smaller caliber cartridges to play a role in big game hunting?

• 56:42Speaker 09

  Yeah, I think it plays a role. I think it's kind of raised the, I think it's kind of raised the bar over, you know, the capability overall has increased. They've always been effective in, in some ways. I mean, even in the early 1900s, you know, Frank, Frank Glazer was killing moose with a 220 Swift and claimed it was the, killed everything, you know, with just these super crappy 40, 48 grain bullets.

• 57:05Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 57:06Speaker 09

  Um, and so I, I think that, that bullet manufacturer has, or bullet technology has really contributed to that. And also, it's, it's made it easier to hit, you know, it's made it easier to shoot accurately.

• 57:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:22Speaker 09

  Um, and.

• 57:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're past the days of like round nose Remington Core locks that everybody used to use.

• 57:30Speaker 09

  Yeah. And, and one, you know, one thing, like, the, the heavier for caliber bullets are so much longer. I don't, I don't play into sectional density too much, but, you know, you get a much longer core of lead, even in these expanding bullets that, that, that you'll get better penetration than, say, you know, an older, or like a larger caliber bullet of the same weight that's a lot shorter. And that's, that's just one little factor. I'll try not, try not to get too far in the weeds on.

• 57:57Speaker 03

  Sure. Yeah, we want to keep it simple. Um, do you guys have any, any questions for Tyler?

• 58:03Speaker 07

  Yeah, I guess, um. You're shooting primarily match bullets or real frangible bullets?

• 58:12Speaker 09

  Uh.

• 58:13Speaker 07

  Out of these lighter?

• 58:14Speaker 09

  Sometimes. I've been I've been shooting more, particularly like the Hornady ELDM bullets.

• 58:20Speaker 07

  Mm hmm.

• 58:20Speaker 09

  But I mean, honestly, if I had to just pick, you know, one of my favorite bullets overall, it's that ELDX, which is

• 58:27Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 58:27Speaker 09

  It's it's not quite as I and even saying frangible is I don't know that that's I wouldn't say that that's really, really accurate. But it is a more rigidly construction constructed bullet heavier jacket and there's a locking ring in the jacket that they are going to tend to hold together a little better, but you still get really good rapid expansion and and performance. Um, so I I mean, I would say that that that style of bullet is probably my favorite.

• 58:53Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 58:53Speaker 09

  Still.

• 58:54Speaker 07

  Yeah, I always get, um, I I I'm always confused or I guess, I don't know, it strikes me as sort of strange that people talk so much about cartridges and then they don't talk about bullets and bullet construction.

• 59:05Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 59:05Speaker 07

  Because

• 59:06Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 59:06Speaker 07

  The only thing when you're killing an animal, the the question is like, what work that bullet does on that animal's tissue? And that's like, what is the bullet made out of? How fast does it hit it? And does it hit it where you want to hit it? Right? And like, none of that is really, you can do it like, depending on whatever the head stamp is, you can do a lot. Um, you can do a lot of different things and end up with a lot of different wounds on an animal, but the the bullet is really like, to my mind, the most important part of the equation.

• 59:35Speaker 09

  Yeah, and I think I think you hit the nail on the head. I mean, that's, we are kind of, you know, as a whole, a lot of hunters tend to whether it's just the way we're brought up in it, you know, we we think cartridge, power, kinetic energy, where, you know, what your bullet construction and what's your impact velocity going to be? You know, because there are people that have done stuff that's, you know, kind of stupid with the six, five creed more.

• 1:00:00Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:00:00Speaker 09

  But if you if you stay within a reasonable velo impact velocity range, you know, where you could still shoot really well and hit what you need to. They it like it's it shouldn't surprise anyone that it works.

• 1:00:11Speaker 07

  Right. You poke a couple holes through their lungs, they're going to die pretty quick. Jordan, you got anything for Tyler?

• 1:00:16Speaker 06

  Um, yeah, I guess, uh, one of the things you hear from, you know, the folks who want to use the more powerful Magnum cartridges is, um, you know, I want to dump as much energy in, into the animal as possible, maybe induce hydrostatic shock, so it just kind of falls down right there. Um, what do you, what, what is, where do you stand on that sort of argument?

• 1:00:37Speaker 09

  I would say that it's, it's kind of a misconception or not, like a poor understanding of, A, you know, what you should expect when you shoot an animal and, you know, just the capabilities or, or like terminal ballistics itself, because like animals react totally differently. And I've, I've heard this and whether it's framed is I want more margin for error, but well, what does that, what does that really mean?

• 1:01:01Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:01:02Speaker 09

  And I, you know, I've heard people, you know, cause talking about shoot, even shooting moose, it's a well, if they soak this up, then this other cartridge isn't going to work. Well, that's just a, um, poor understanding of what we should expect from the animal. Um, because there's a variety of reactions and the only thing you can really control is putting, you know, using a bullet's going to put a, a, you know, an adequate sized hole through that thing's vitals and placing it accurately and the animal is going to die. It might, it might drop in its, you know, the antelope I shot yesterday folded like a lawn chair and then I watched another one with a bullet that was, did some, you know, more damage to it, shot perfectly and it didn't fall over for 15 or 20 seconds.

• 1:01:41Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:01:42Speaker 09

  You know, and, and both were, both were perfect shots.

• 1:01:45Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:01:46Speaker 09

  You know, it's just the result, results will vary and, you know, a lot of times we, we have, you know, a spectacular result or what we interpret as that and we don't, you know, it's, it's a small sample size that kind of falls within a wide range of possibilities.

• 1:02:00Speaker 03

  All right, let's, uh, let's, um, speaking of results, um, and if, if any of you are still doubting, like what Tyler is saying, um, about the capabilities of some of these, these smaller bore cartridges, um, I want you to check out a video that he, he made last year when he killed, you know, an Alaska Yukon bull moose is probably like 1,600 pounds with, it was with a 22 arc Tyler, is that right?

• 1:02:28Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 1:02:29Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:02:29Speaker 09

  22 arc.

• 1:02:30Speaker 07

  80, 80 LDMs?

• 1:02:31Speaker 03

  And, um,

• 1:02:32Speaker 09

  Yep, 88.

• 1:02:33Speaker 03

  And alright, enough nerding out Randall.

• 1:02:37Speaker 07

  I'm an ELDM man myself.

• 1:02:40Speaker 03

  Before you chime in to like talk trash about how this plays out, I want you to first think about this. Um, I killed an Alaska bull moose last year with a 300 Win Mag. And it took three good hits to put that bull down. So like, keep that in mind as you're watching what this, this video. Phil, you can go ahead and roll, roll the tape here.

• 1:03:03Speaker 04

  Okay, I'm ready whenever. If you got a clear shot.

• 1:03:11Speaker 04

  Lot of brush.

• 1:03:14Speaker 04

  You're gonna wanna do it.

• 1:03:21Speaker 04

  He's done.

• 1:03:23Speaker 03

  Sounds like my boys hunting squirrels.

• 1:03:30Speaker 07

  He's down.

• 1:03:33Speaker 07

  Or no, he's standing.

• 1:03:42Speaker 03

  Now, like thi- this is kinda what I'm talking about, like before you chime in talking trash.

• 1:03:54Speaker 03

  He's getting woozy. And there he goes.

• 1:03:58Speaker 03

  So, uh, no matter what you or me say Tyler, like there's gonna be some grumpy haters that'll be like, you had to shoot him three times. It, it took forever for him to tip over. Um, but like with a big bull moose, that's not unusual with a, with a great big caliber because it's a huge animal and it just takes them a long time to bleed out, right? Um, so, so I've gotta believe that like, part of the advantage i- in the situation you were just in is that you were able to like bear, like stay on target and like get real quick, accurate follow-up shots. Cause you're just like not dealing with recoil, right?

• 1:04:40Speaker 09

  Yeah, I know. And you know, and that was, that was a gas gun and the first shot, and, and the funny thing is like say if, if you shoot something more than once with a small cartridge, you know, it was, it wasn't enough gun, but if you shoot them more than once with a big cartridge, they're tough.

• 1:04:54Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:04:57Speaker 09

  You know, like the first shot, the first shot was perfectly through both lungs and that, you know, it may, it's only, it's all speculation. He may have gone another 50 yards.

• 1:05:06Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:05:07Speaker 09

  You know, but just based on, that's one of the reasons I chose to do that is because I have quite a bit of experience with how moose die.

• 1:05:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:13Speaker 09

  You know, the situations that we're shooting them in there and felt, you know, obviously confident enough to try it. And, uh, you know, and, and actually getting the, the second shot where he turned, um, it hit him unfortunately in the hind quarter, but you know, all, you know, making lemon, lemonade out of lemons. It was pretty imperfect. Like that bullet went through 10 inches of meat and then completely shattered the femur and was ended up somewhere, ended up somewhere in the guts.

• 1:05:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:40Speaker 09

  But, um, the first and third shot were both, both through the lungs.

• 1:05:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:44Speaker 09

  And, uh, yeah.

• 1:05:46Speaker 03

  It was impressive, man. Um, all right. We're, we're, we're, we're going to have to, to move on to our next segment, Tyler, but, uh, thanks for joining us. Stay in touch. It's like probably almost winter up there in Fairbanks. I'd imagine it's getting close. So, uh, have a great fall, um, and winter up, up there and we'll talk to you, talk to you another time.

• 1:06:08Speaker 09

  That sounds great.

• 1:06:09Speaker 03

  All right. Thanks a lot, man.

• 1:06:10Speaker 06

  Thanks Tyler.

• 1:06:11Speaker 09

  Yeah, thank you.

• 1:06:14Speaker 03

  Okay. Our next section, uh, next segment, um, again, if you didn't realize it's whitetail week here at Meat Eater. And since everyone loves just kicking back and talking, hunting, shooting the breeze about hunting, which is something I think we should do more of on this show. And so does, so does the honest, I think. Um, we're going to have a little chat about, uh, what our dream whitetail hunt would be, would be. Um, so boys, do you got, uh, like, do you already have like a bucket list whitetail hunt in mind? Or is this something you, you had to like really stop and think about?

• 1:06:50Speaker 06

  I mean, I, I feel like I'm, I'm still trying to figure it out in East Texas a little bit, but I would love um to go do a western whitetail hunt. Um, I grew up in Virginia and now in East Texas.

• 1:07:04Speaker 03

  Well, west is big, man. You gotta pick a spot.

• 1:07:06Speaker 06

  I, well, what would you recommend?

• 1:07:09Speaker 03

  Montana, if you like whitetails.

• 1:07:11Speaker 06

  There you go. Yeah, I'd, I'd love to do that. Um, just getting out of the tree stand, you know, it's, it's what you gotta do.

• 1:07:19Speaker 03

  Plenty of opportunity for that here. I mean, Wyoming's got some good whitetail hunting. Um, Colorado's like has some giant whitetail bucks, but they're most, they're almost all in the eastern half of the state and it's almost all private land.

• 1:07:33Speaker 06

  Right, right.

• 1:07:34Speaker 03

  Like, if you want to do a public land hunt, it'd be hard for me to pick somewhere other than Montana.

• 1:07:39Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, that, that just sounds great. Getting to see that landscape, walk around, do a rifle hunt. Um, would be a lot of fun.

• 1:07:48Speaker 07

  I, I had to think about this a little bit. I don't necessarily know that they're bucket list, it's a bucket list hunt. A bucket list hunt for me would be like, uh, going to the most exclusive whitetail property that has the biggest bucks and shooting it. But the one hunt I've always wanted to do or just been fascinated by is uh, doing like a north woods, tracking in the snow, like, like, like in Maine, you know, you see some of those, uh, like, I just think that's, that would be sort of the coolest, most mind expanding.

• 1:08:21Speaker 03

  The Adirondacks in like New York would be super cool, I think. Like low deer densities, like tracking a buck.

• 1:08:27Speaker 07

  Yeah, wear a wool hat, carry a lever gun.

• 1:08:29Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:08:29Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:08:30Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:08:30Speaker 06

  Very cool.

• 1:08:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, I like that idea. Um, mine would be something like, it's like totally out of my, my com- comfort zone and like hunting style. Um, I would like, this is something I would like.

• 1:08:46Speaker 03

  Mentally have a tough time with, but I'd still want to do it, which is a one of those Saskatchewan hunts where you're sitting in a blind and it's like minus 10 degrees, but you're hunting during the rut and like you're hunting for these like 300 plus pound whitetails, like they they'll have like 150 inch rack and it looks small because the the deer are just so giant. Um, I, I think that would be a super cool experience. It would like be miserable, but it would be cool too.

• 1:09:16Speaker 07

  Yeah. No, I think one of the cool things about whitetails is there's just so many different ways.

• 1:09:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:21Speaker 07

  You can do it.

• 1:09:22Speaker 03

  That's like, yeah, like pick a spot.

• 1:09:23Speaker 07

  Stands, drives.

• 1:09:25Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:09:25Speaker 07

  Uh, I've also been really intrigued. Whenever I see an image of a whitetail deer in a canoe.

• 1:09:30Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 1:09:31Speaker 07

  Always get, that's just like tickle something in my brain.

• 1:09:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, definitely. Definitely a water-based hunt would be real cool. Okay, um, Phil, let's, let's jump back into the chat. Is everyone talking about whitetails or guns or what?

• 1:09:47Speaker 05

  Uh, there's a lot of gun talk during, during the, uh, the Tyler real conversation. Not a lot of questions though. There's there, you know, I love this chat because they just talk amongst themselves and share info and opinions and they're all very kind about it. You guys rock. Um, but we do have a lot, a lot of questions still. Uh, this is from Harrison. He says, question for the crew. Do you, do you use a packable game sled for deer and elk? If so, which one do you recommend? He's right rifle elk hunting this year and wants to use one.

• 1:10:10Speaker 03

  Funny you should ask that. Um, uh, like I'm going to be trying one out this year. Hopefully I'll get the opportunity to try out a packable sled. Um, I've used sleds in the past mostly for elk, but like the ice fishing sled type things, like where you shoot it, then go back to get the sled and then bring it out. And use it to, to pack the animal out, the quarters out of weather. We had to do that with my kids elk last year. Um, so I'm like, I'm definitely interested in the, the roll up sleds or packable sleds.

• 1:10:44Speaker 07

  Yeah, I've, for Sydney's bison, we used like a pelican sled. Um, like a big ice fishing sled.

• 1:10:54Speaker 07

  I've used an orange, it's, it's like a burlier kid sled.

• 1:10:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:59Speaker 07

  Um, and

• 1:11:00Speaker 03

  The roll up ones are like?

• 1:11:02Speaker 07

  No, like an actual like

• 1:11:03Speaker 03

  Like, yeah.

• 1:11:04Speaker 07

  Flat, yeah, yeah. And, and that has been, I had one miserable experience with it and one experience where it was helpful.

• 1:11:11Speaker 03

  That's the thing, man, is like, when you're running that kind of sled, like the snow conditions gotta be just right for it to work well.

• 1:11:19Speaker 07

  I, I feel like if you, if you count on packing it out in a sled, you're kind of setting yourself up for, like, it's a nice thing to have.

• 1:11:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:27Speaker 07

  If the conditions are right, but like, there's, there's something that's really straightforward about, I will put this on my back and carry it out.

• 1:11:35Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 1:11:36Speaker 07

  Cause, cause oftentimes I feel like the sled can be way more work than just carrying it out.

• 1:11:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, and, and certain snow conditions for sure. I agree.

• 1:11:46Speaker 07

  Good luck to you, Harrison.

• 1:11:47Speaker 03

  I imagine you're not using a sled too much in Texas, man.

• 1:11:49Speaker 06

  No, I'm not even sure what a sled is, to be honest, or snow. I've never heard of this either.

• 1:11:53Speaker 07

  I do like, I do like using, for like a winter backpack hunt, I'll, I'll pull a sled behind me.

• 1:11:59Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 1:12:00Speaker 07

  And I do like, if you just, if you're putting like 30 pounds in it, that you're not going to have in your backpack, that's, that's nice, but yeah.

• 1:12:07Speaker 03

  And I, I think there are situations where it doesn't even, with some of these packable sleds, you could probably pull it off without snow. Uh, in the right, like, landscape, you could still use a sled where you're gonna slide, slide it.

• 1:12:22Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:12:22Speaker 03

  Um, so hopefully that answers the question.

• 1:12:25Speaker 05

  This one's very funny to me and I don't know if it means anything, we can just move on if it doesn't. Uh, Rashad says, last week I did an expensive fishing charter.

• 1:12:31Speaker 03

  Is there cheap fishing charters?

• 1:12:34Speaker 05

  Good point. We limited out and the captain told me to leave one of our fish. I thought he was joking, but he took one out of my bag. Never discussed beforehand. Thoughts?

• 1:12:43Speaker 06

  That's not cool. Yeah.

• 1:12:45Speaker 03

  I, I mean, it, it's not, he should have. Captain pride should have said something in advance, but like if you're walking out of there with just like a, I don't know what they're fishing for, what the limit was.

• 1:13:00Speaker 03

  You know, I don't got a problem with leaving the guy a fish necessarily. If it was like done in a rude way, we're like, give me one of those things.

• 1:13:09Speaker 07

  Or if he, I mean, I think like it comes down to if he really, if it was a question.

• 1:13:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:15Speaker 07

  And he was like, I'd appreciate a fish.

• 1:13:17Speaker 03

  You're not stepping off my boat.

• 1:13:19Speaker 07

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I had people, I had people give me some of their fish if they didn't want to take it all home and, but I didn't ask people for it.

• 1:13:29Speaker 03

  There's also situations where the captain's going to fish and give you his fish.

• 1:13:33Speaker 07

  Right, right.

• 1:13:34Speaker 03

  So, I mean, I, again, like, I don't know the details here.

• 1:13:39Speaker 07

  I don't like it. Thanks Rashad.

• 1:13:42Speaker 05

  Great. Uh, Jordan says, Phil, if you don't bring up, uh, Rand, Randall's DIY chili dogs at the football game, it will be a travesty. Uh, I told, so this is about a new reel Randall posted on Instagram where he.

• 1:13:56Speaker 07

  One of the new reels.

• 1:13:57Speaker 05

  Where he brought a Ziploc bag full of chili. Uh, I don't, you guys, okay, if you have not seen this, just go to Randall's Instagram. It is, it is obscene behavior from Randall.

• 1:14:06Speaker 07

  It's missing. I was really hoping, because I looked up all the regs.

• 1:14:11Speaker 05

  Good.

• 1:14:11Speaker 07

  On getting stuff in there. I was kind of thinking I was going to have to stash it, you know, like a, like.

• 1:14:16Speaker 03

  Keep it warm in your pocket.

• 1:14:18Speaker 06

  Bring it into the movies.

• 1:14:19Speaker 07

  Yeah, like a Gatorade bottle of liquor tucked into your pants like we used to do at the Bengals games when we were, but, um, no, if you have food that you want to bring in, it's totally fine. And, uh, it abides by the NFL's bag policy. Uh, you just fit it in a gallon sized baggie. And so I was really hoping that I would have a confrontation and then I could pull out my phone where I'd screenshotted the rules and said, I know my rights, but that didn't happen. The, the, the infiltration was actually very anticlimactic. But I'm glad you enjoyed it. Nonetheless, I enjoyed it. I tickled myself with that.

• 1:14:54Speaker 05

  Collins wondering, what a, what piece of first light gear is the crew's favorite for cold, late midwestern, late season archery hunts?

• 1:15:02Speaker 03

  You got a guy from Texas who hunts when it's never cold and you got two other guys who don't hunt cold, late season archery hunts. Um, I don't like sitting still. Um, and I don't hunt from tree stands too much, but I, I would imagine like going with a bib system is the way to go for that situation.

• 1:15:24Speaker 07

  I, I gotta look up the name of this jacket.

• 1:15:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:29Speaker 07

  As a bad.

• 1:15:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. Insulated bibs.

• 1:15:31Speaker 07

  As a bad person.

• 1:15:33Speaker 03

  And, uh, some great big warm jacket that you can still draw a bow with.

• 1:15:38Speaker 07

  Yeah, there's a fleece. Oh geez, this is embarrassing.

• 1:15:44Speaker 03

  They just didn't pick the right, uh, like whitetail experts for this show, Randall.

• 1:15:48Speaker 07

  No, I know. I know. There is a fleece jacket that's got like a, like a windbreak.

• 1:15:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:54Speaker 07

  Layer in it.

• 1:15:55Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:15:55Speaker 07

  And I, I can't find it right at the moment, but that thing is incredibly warm and.

• 1:16:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:16:00Speaker 07

  It's fleece, so it's very quiet. Like it's shockingly warm. It's probably one of my favorite jackets.

• 1:16:05Speaker 03

  Just do this. Go on first light's website and just go to like the whitetail section and they'll have like cold weather gear. You'll find some good stuff there.

• 1:16:15Speaker 07

  Yep. Sorry I'm bad at this selling.

• 1:16:18Speaker 05

  Cody, this is I guess general just traveling with meat tips and things to keep in mind for getting my access to your cape and meet home from Hawaii, humble brag. But I guess if you guys have any sort of, uh, tips about flying with.

• 1:16:29Speaker 03

  I've not flown with a cape, but, uh, like you probably don't want to like get it frozen and keep it frozen. Um, that's a good question. I don't know. Would you salt a cape before traveling with it to?

• 1:16:45Speaker 07

  I possibly, I don't have a ton of experience.

• 1:16:49Speaker 03

  Phil, you're just picking really bad, like, difficult questions for us today. The meat's easy. Freeze it and keep it cold. I, I would think the same thing for the cape. And there might be like colataxidermis and they'll tell you, like, if you want to salt it or, or whatever.

• 1:17:04Speaker 07

  Yeah, I don't know that when I flew back from Alaska with my bear hide, I don't know that we salted it. And you, you couldn't freeze it because they had to check it.

• 1:17:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:14Speaker 07

  Well, you froze it, let it thaw, and then we threw it in the freezer again at the hotel, but, yeah.

• 1:17:20Speaker 05

  Brody, it's either these questions or the ones about video games and D and D. I'm trying to spare you from the questions I want to ask.

• 1:17:26Speaker 03

  I feel like we're like, just not like, these people are going to be disappointed with our answer.

• 1:17:31Speaker 05

  Well, that sounds like a you problem. Uh, let's see here.

• 1:17:35Speaker 03

  You're picking them.

• 1:17:38Speaker 05

  Um, oh yeah, I saw Brad. I'm late, a late in life, first time hunter at 35. I've listened and watched you guys for years and read a bunch. A huge part of me wants to test myself and go alone versus going with anyone else.

• 1:17:49Speaker 03

  Go alone. Like, you'll learn so much by hunting alone. Um, you might, you might fail where, where you otherwise might succeed if you had someone who knows more than you, but, like, go hunt alone. That's all I'm gonna say.

• 1:18:07Speaker 07

  It depends on what you're doing. I think like if you're doing, if you're doing a wilderness type hunt, you have to, or anything, I guess, like, it depends on how you do being by yourself doing something.

• 1:18:21Speaker 03

  It can be tough passing an entire day, for sure.

• 1:18:24Speaker 07

  If you're gonna struggle without someone and not be able to keep your head in the game, uh, you know, find a buddy or, or find a mentor. Um, but if you're, if you're, you know yourself and you know that you can handle that sort of thing, uh, go for it.

• 1:18:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, I like, I, I mean, I don't know if he's saying go alone for the first, first, it does say late in life, first time.

• 1:18:48Speaker 05

  I think the implication is that it would be his first time going out.

• 1:18:52Speaker 03

  Oh, then I retract my answer. Go with someone else the first couple of times, but don't be afraid to go out hunting by yourself.

• 1:19:01Speaker 07

  The chalice jacket.

• 1:19:03Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 1:19:03Speaker 07

  The chalice jacket to, to sort of clean up one of our earlier misses. There, I feel like we're back on track.

• 1:19:10Speaker 05

  JR P, fellow Bob Cratchit over here. I'd give you the secret Bob Cratchit handshake, but you're, you're not in the room with him. Um, you want to do one more?

• 1:19:19Speaker 03

  One more.

• 1:19:20Speaker 05

  Okay. I think we've talked, we've, we've talked about stuff like this before. Chester's not here, but I'll ask it anyways. It's from Jer, maybe Jerry. Here's an etiquette question for y'all. Do you get a, you get a deer on private land, you were given permission to hunt. How much meat would be appropriate to give the landowner as a thank you?

• 1:19:35Speaker 03

  I, I'd try to clear that up before the hunt and just say, look, if I get one, do you want some?

• 1:19:42Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:19:42Speaker 03

  And go from there.

• 1:19:43Speaker 06

  I made, uh, tamales, venison tamales.

• 1:19:46Speaker 03

  Yeah. Bring us up like prepared. That's a great idea.

• 1:19:49Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:19:50Speaker 03

  Um, I think, you know, it, it's going to depend on the person, but a lot of times they may not even want any.

• 1:19:58Speaker 07

  Yeah. Yeah. I think just asking ahead of time.

• 1:20:01Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:20:03Speaker 05

  Cool.

• 1:20:05Speaker 07

  Phil, anything else?

• 1:20:06Speaker 05

  I mean, we, we can do more, but.

• 1:20:08Speaker 03

  Nah, let's move on. I'm about to, I got a, I got a frog in my throat.

• 1:20:11Speaker 05

  Sounds good.

• 1:20:12Speaker 03

  I'm going to try and get through this.

• 1:20:14Speaker 07

  You want me to do this?

• 1:20:15Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, you can let her rip.

• 1:20:17Speaker 07

  Hey everyone. In case you haven't heard, this December, Meat Eater is doing a big Christmas live tour through six cities in the southeast. You can get all the info on locations and venues on our website, but here's the catch. Tickets are going fast. In fact, Fayetteville, Arkansas is already sold out. So if you want to catch a fun evening with Steve, Yanis, Clay, Randall, and some very special guests. You better buy your tickets ASAP.

• 1:20:44Speaker 03

  I forgot Brent. He's going to be there too.

• 1:20:45Speaker 07

  And Brett Reeves, everybody. Uh, yeah, those tickets are going fast. Fayetteville's sold out. I think like overall, a majority of tickets. Like if you look at the collective body of tickets, a majority are gone. So, uh, don't wait too long. It's nice to get some Christmas shopping out of the way. So if you've got a, a friend, a family member who would appreciate a fun evening of laughs and outdoor themed entertainment.

• 1:21:12Speaker 07

  Why don't you hop on to uh the meat eater.com slash tour, I believe.

• 1:21:17Speaker 03

  Yep, and go to our events page, they'll be easy to find.

• 1:21:21Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 1:21:21Speaker 03

  Um, so get on that. Um, and one last thing, uh, next week's show is going to be a pre-recorded episode because Randall and Phil are going out of town to play video games in Nashville. But you guys aren't going to believe this, Steve and Rinella is going to be on radio live, which I don't know how long it's been, Phil, since he's done that.

• 1:21:47Speaker 05

  Few months for sure.

• 1:21:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, so you don't want to miss it. And um, that's it, man. That's it for today's show. Thanks for listening and tune in next week.

• 1:21:56Speaker 07

  Thanks, everybody.

• 1:21:57Speaker 06

  Yeah, thank you.

• 1:22:09Steven Rinella?

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• 1:22:53Steven Rinella?

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• 1:23:38Steven Rinella?

  The deer movement forecast means missing fewer of the moments that matter, whether in the stand or back at home. Try it today in OnX Hunt.

• 1:23:48Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed humor.