Jesse Burgess rates our lemon chicken and sesame chilli oil cucumbers

The TOPJAW star has found his new favourite spot. Jesse Burgess is a presenter, filmmaker, and co‑founder of the award‑winning food and travel duo, TOPJAW. He’s at the Dish table to share the details about the second series of his Apple TV show, Knife Edge: Chasing Michelin Stars. It’s a series produced by Gordon Ramsay’s production company which follows restaurants and chefs across the globe as they navigate the intense season of Michelin Guide reviews. A world, of course, which Angela knows well, having been awarded her first Michelin Star in 2004. Through TOPJAW, Jesse has put most of London’s top chefs (including our Angela) through his quickfire Best of London series. Which means we get some of the best recommendations for eats in the capital and beyond, along with a look into the cuisines which Jesse thinks are soon to get even more time in the spotlight. Over a Hazy IPA, we hear all about his incredible wedding feast and his favourite everyday dishes, most of which contain sausages. There’s a chance for Angela to share her own encounters with the mysterious Michelin inspectors, and to bust a few myths along the way. Angela serves lemon chicken, a recipe by Shu Lin, and sesame chilli oil cucumbers, along with a bottle of Naudet Sancerre, paired with the meal by the Waitrose wine experts. We finish with our first non-seated Fast Food Quiz (Dish: always breaking new ground) and be sure to look out for Nick’s appearance on TOPJAW very soon. You can watch full episodes of Dish on YouTube and on Spotify. All recipes from this podcast can be found at waitrose.com/dishrecipes The recipe for the lemon chicken was created for Waitrose by Shu Lin. The recipe for sesame chilli oil cucumbers was created for Waitrose by Julie Lin. A transcript for this episode can be found at waitrose.com/dish If you want to get in touch with us about anything at all, contact [email protected] Dish from Waitrose is made by Cold Glass Productions 00:00 - Coming up on Dish 00:46 - Welcome! 02:37 - Today’s guest 03:19 - Some special community moments 05:47 - Jesse Burgess is here! 07:12 - Nick & Angela on TOPJAW! 07:54 - A Hazy IPA cheers! 08:11 - Jesse’s globetrotting year 08:57 - What happens at a foodie wedding? 14:06 - Jesse’s food loves 16:12 - Sausage forward! 17:25 - Jesse’s hottakes 21:15 - Lemon chicken is served! 22:35 - A sesame chilli oil cucumber side 22:58 - Shallow-frying? 24:13 - Eating on the podcast 24:48 - Wine pairing 25:19 - Mutual bosses with Gordon Ramsay! 27:20 - Knife Edge: Chasing Michelin Stars is back! 28:23 - The origins of Michelin stars 29:50 - Differences between stars 30:32 - The Michelin star checklist 33:16 - Produce is king! 34:02 - The life of a Michelin star inspector 35:02 - Angela’s experience with Michelin 38:22 - A new era for bustling restaurants 40:24 - Fast food quiz 42:36 - End of the show question Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:08Nick Grimshaw?

  The heart of Mexico beats in every glass of Don Julio Tequila. 100% Blue Weber Agave, grown in Mexico. Your margarita deserves an award-winning tequila at Waitrose. Find out more at donjulio.com. Select a store subject to availability. Over 18 only, please drink responsibly.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Ah, now this is living. Tuesday night chili con carne with tilde rice.

• 0:36Speaker 02

  Call that living. This is living. Chicken stir fry with tilde firecracker rice.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  Okay, I see your stir fry and raise you. Tilde sticky rice poke bowl.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  Poke bowl, mate. Tilde coconut rice, lamb curry, poppadoms, chutney, the lot.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  Whoa, okay, now we're definitely living.

• 0:56Speaker 02

  Tilde, cook like you mean it, live like you mean it.

• 1:01Nick Grimshaw?

  Coming up on Dish with Jesse Burgess.

• 1:04Speaker 03

  I was having nightmares of just running out of booze.

• 1:06Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:07Speaker 03

  And I ordered 1,086 beers. Do you know how many were drunk?

• 1:11Nick Grimshaw?

  How many?

• 1:11Speaker 03

  260.

• 1:12Angela Hartnett?

  No.

• 1:13Nick Grimshaw?

  The other food opinion was marmite and honey is the best toast topping.

• 1:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17Nick Grimshaw?

  Agree.

• 1:18Speaker 03

  Do you?

• 1:18Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah, it's a rarity.

• 1:20Speaker 03

  Sorry, calm down, Jess.

• 1:22Nick Grimshaw?

  It's a rarity, but yeah, absolutely delicious. The rest of yours was was quite sausage forward. You would love Angela to me.

• 1:30Speaker 03

  Well, that's what we've got. I'm a sausage focused guy.

• 1:34Nick Grimshaw?

  Dish from Waitrose is a cold glass production. This podcast may contain some strong language and adult themes.

• 1:47Nick Grimshaw?

  Hello, welcome to Dish from Waitrose. I am Nick Grimshaw.

• 1:50Angela Hartnett?

  And I'm Angela Hartnett.

• 1:51Nick Grimshaw?

  Hi, Angela Hartnett.

• 1:52Angela Hartnett?

  Hi, Nicholas Grimshaw.

• 1:53Nick Grimshaw?

  How are you?

• 1:54Angela Hartnett?

  Very well, thanks, and you good self?

• 1:55Nick Grimshaw?

  I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. I thought I was gonna see you for longer on Sunday.

• 2:01Angela Hartnett?

  Ah, yes.

• 2:02Nick Grimshaw?

  Basically, on Sunday, Ange was doing this great charity dinner. The Mother Teresa of kitchens and put on this great meal with Action Against Hunger.

• 2:13Angela Hartnett?

  Like Sugro South Downs.

• 2:14Nick Grimshaw?

  And Sugro South Downs, it's a great vineyard in the South Downs. No idea where or what the South Downs is. But I was there. I'd never heard of it until Sunday. Never heard of it.

• 2:27Angela Hartnett?

  Brilliant.

• 2:28Nick Grimshaw?

  So, south of Down, I presume.

• 2:31Nick Grimshaw?

  No idea. I, basically, it was a charity dinner that you did in November.

• 2:36Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 2:36Nick Grimshaw?

  At the end of the dinner, Ange said, it was hazy, but Ange was like, if you pay for this, you get this dinner in August. Lunch in August. So I was like, great, let's do it. Completely forgot about it, loads. And then remembered on Tuesday, I was like, oh, look where that is. I thought it'd be at Morano. Thought it'd be at your house, but no, in the South Downs, on a vineyard. We went out and it was Angela, Luke Holder and Jess Filby.

• 3:02Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 3:03Nick Grimshaw?

  And they cooked this incredible lunch outside. We had like melon and ham.

• 3:08Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 3:09Nick Grimshaw?

  We had some deviled eggs.

• 3:10Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah, with bataga.

• 3:11Nick Grimshaw?

  With bataga. And then we had veal.

• 3:14Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 3:15Nick Grimshaw?

  Which was in softened in buttermilk.

• 3:18Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you ever had veal before, yeah.

• 3:20Nick Grimshaw?

  I have had veal, but that was, I never would order veal.

• 3:23Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 3:24Nick Grimshaw?

  But I loved it. It was so delicious with a Parmesan cream.

• 3:28Angela Hartnett?

  And then loads of veg on the table.

• 3:30Nick Grimshaw?

  Loads of veg, great potatoes.

• 3:31Angela Hartnett?

  It was fun lunch.

• 3:32Nick Grimshaw?

  It was really good.

• 3:32Angela Hartnett?

  Great for charity. So thank you for your contribution.

• 3:35Nick Grimshaw?

  Well, thank you. Delicious, so delicious. We have today Jesse Burgess joining us on Dish, who you may know from Topjaw, which has been going for like 10 years on Instagram and on TikTok and stuff, where he will interview people on the street about the best places they've eaten. Or they do sort of guides as well to different cities.

• 3:55Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah, like San Sebastian, Paris and stuff like that.

• 3:57Nick Grimshaw?

  You've got to Bill Bow and you've no idea where to go.

• 3:59Angela Hartnett?

  Jesse will tell you.

• 3:59Nick Grimshaw?

  Jesse's your man. And he's also got series two of this show to talk about, which is all around chefs and the sort of pursuit they're on to either get a Michelin star or to get their second or their third. So that's managing now.

• 4:12Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah, three, yeah.

• 4:13Nick Grimshaw?

  Three is enough.

• 4:14Angela Hartnett?

  Three is enough.

• 4:15Nick Grimshaw?

  The show's called Knife Edge, so Jesse will be here to tell us all about that in a second. First, though, I've got an email and you've got a letter.

• 4:22Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 4:22Nick Grimshaw?

  Got an email from Freya.

• 4:24Angela Hartnett?

  Freya?

• 4:25Nick Grimshaw?

  And Freya got in touch with us, [email protected] if you want to email us ever, saying, Dear Dish, brackets, Angela and Nick.

• 4:33Angela Hartnett?

  Well.

• 4:34Nick Grimshaw?

  This feels silly to type out and even slightly depressing, but it felt right to acknowledge the role that you've played recently in my life. I'm 30 years old and I've recently undergone chemo for breast cancer. And your episodes are a highlight of each week, whether I was feeling rough and timing my activities to an episode. In 40 minutes, I could get all of my tasks done and get back to bed. Or on the weeks when I felt good, I could take the episode out for a walk and a coffee. And it was like my mates chatting in my ears. You guys kept me company on some fairly dark days and for that I'm so grateful. Lots of love from Freya. Well, thank you, Freya. I hope you're doing all right.

• 5:16Nick Grimshaw?

  I hope you're recovering well and I'm glad that we could be there and provide that, for sure. And if you do want to get in touch with us, [email protected] is the way to do it. Thank you, Freya. Glad we could be there.

• 5:30Angela Hartnett?

  Bless Freya.

• 5:30Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah.

• 5:31Angela Hartnett?

  And then I have this lovely letter.

• 5:32Nick Grimshaw?

  You've got a letter like the olden days.

• 5:33Angela Hartnett?

  Look at this, proper olden days that arrived at Morano.

• 5:38Angela Hartnett?

  And it's from a lovely little girl called Elizabeth. And she said, Dear Angela Hartnett, I do not write or contact by letter very much, so this is a good opportunity to get to know me. I am Elizabeth Kingston. I'm 10 years old and a really big fan of your Dish Waitrose shorts. So I think she means the little clips, obviously, online. And she's put Dish in big, like, bold letters. Bless her. My letter is to inform you that I am offering, if you still do it or not, to be a guest to get, who gets to ask questions. One example would be favorite way to eat eggs. My answer, French toast made by my dad. From Elizabeth Kingston.

• 6:17Nick Grimshaw?

  I'd like to receive all letters like this.

• 6:19Angela Hartnett?

  Oh, it's so sweet.

• 6:21Nick Grimshaw?

  Oh, well, thanks, Elizabeth.

• 6:23Angela Hartnett?

  So Elizabeth likes to eat eggs, made by her dad, French toast.

• 6:26Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah.

• 6:27Angela Hartnett?

  First French toast answer.

• 6:29Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah.

• 6:29Angela Hartnett?

  Good one.

• 6:30Nick Grimshaw?

  Thank you for that, Elizabeth. Yeah, email us or write a letter and send it to Morano.

• 6:34Angela Hartnett?

  We're gonna keep this letter in our archive of letters. I think we have two.

• 6:37Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah.

• 6:38Angela Hartnett?

  This is our second one. And both, actually, from children. I mean, that's, that's the world we live in these days. Oh, dear.

• 6:44Nick Grimshaw?

  Well, thank you, Freya. Thank you, Elizabeth.

• 6:48Nick Grimshaw?

  Time to welcome a wonderful guest today on Dish. The sort of perfect person to have on speed dial if you need someone's advice for where to eat, where to drink. Of course, a man who knows the best spots in London and finally has made it to us. Jesse Burgess is here. Good party.

• 7:05Speaker 03

  Hi, Jesse.

• 7:06Angela Hartnett?

  Hi, Jesse.

• 7:07Nick Grimshaw?

  Welcome to Dish.

• 7:09Speaker 03

  Thank you. That might be the largest round of applause I've ever had. Do you want another one? Yeah, go ahead.

• 7:19Nick Grimshaw?

  Should we just keep it going through the fold?

• 7:21Angela Hartnett?

  Just every time you speak.

• 7:22Speaker 03

  I just started thinking, I should have an audience on Topjaw. That would make me feel really nice.

• 7:27Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah. In the street, around the crowd.

• 7:30Angela Hartnett?

  With the crowd following you, it should go round.

• 7:33Nick Grimshaw?

  Good answer.

• 7:35Angela Hartnett?

  So how many episodes do you record in a day? Because as you say, they're quick. I expect it's about 20.

• 7:41Speaker 03

  No.

• 7:42Nick Grimshaw?

  20.

• 7:43Speaker 03

  They're just gearing up, lining one out.

• 7:46Nick Grimshaw?

  Matt Damon's next, come on. Quick, have it, Damon.

• 7:50Angela Hartnett?

  Go on, next.

• 7:51Nick Grimshaw?

  19 more.

• 7:52Speaker 03

  When we were just doing chefs at the start, maybe we did like 10 in a day.

• 7:56Angela Hartnett?

  Still quite a lot, isn't it?

• 7:58Speaker 03

  Never 20.

• 7:59Angela Hartnett?

  Tens a lot, though.

• 8:00Speaker 03

  But now, but now we normally do two.

• 8:03Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 8:03Speaker 03

  Because it's among other things. Otherwise, it gets a little bit formulaic, you know?

• 8:07Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah, that's true, actually.

• 8:08Speaker 03

  But you've got yours next.

• 8:09Nick Grimshaw?

  I know.

• 8:10Speaker 03

  Literally next.

• 8:10Nick Grimshaw?

  We're gonna do it in, after this.

• 8:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:13Nick Grimshaw?

  I always loved when you said, where's your favorite coffee from? And she said, the blue one.

• 8:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:19Nick Grimshaw?

  The blue one. And then she said, Cafe Zero.

• 8:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:22Nick Grimshaw?

  Meaning Cafe Nero.

• 8:23Speaker 03

  I love the blue one.

• 8:25Angela Hartnett?

  Jesse will testify that this was very off the cuff. And I dropped my phone and had things flying out of there and everything.

• 8:32Speaker 03

  Do you still have the case on your phone when you open it up?

• 8:35Angela Hartnett?

  No, no, I've got this. Oh, God. You've dropped the phone again. You see?

• 8:40Speaker 03

  You need, you need the bookcase.

• 8:43Angela Hartnett?

  I've got the plastic cover.

• 8:45Speaker 03

  Now, am I allowed to look at this menu?

• 8:46Nick Grimshaw?

  You can look at the menu. Yeah, you can do whatever we like, yeah. Yeah, we're starting with an IPA.

• 8:52Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 8:52Nick Grimshaw?

  Because we heard you like a hazy IPA, which is what we've gone for. And then, I mean, we can talk about food now if you want. Do you want to?

• 9:00Speaker 03

  No, I don't want to derail your interview. I just felt like it was just, it's there, wink and a wink.

• 9:04Nick Grimshaw?

  Get into it, have a look at the menu.

• 9:06Speaker 03

  I'm into food.

• 9:07Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah. Jesse, you've had, you've been, you've been busy. We've just been hearing before we started, you've been everywhere recently. You've been in Frankfurt, you've been in Brazil, you've been filming everywhere, spending a lot of time in kitchens.

• 9:17Speaker 03

  The main glamorous destinations are Frankfurt and Brazil.

• 9:19Nick Grimshaw?

  Frankfurt and Brazil. Not too shabby, yeah. Where have you been? Where have you been everywhere?

• 9:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, so combination of doing Topjaw, so at the start of the year, we were in Miami and LA and Mexico City.

• 9:33Nick Grimshaw?

  Mexico City.

• 9:33Angela Hartnett?

  Oh, wow.

• 9:34Nick Grimshaw?

  Yes.

• 9:35Speaker 03

  And then, yeah, with Knife Edge, we were doing Brazil, Germany, all of the Nordics, different spots in America, other parts of Europe.

• 9:43Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah, so you've spent a lot of time in kitchens. How's the dish setup from that perspective?

• 9:49Speaker 03

  It's sweet, isn't it?

• 9:52Nick Grimshaw?

  Well, we also have a bit of cheers, not only on your show, which we need to talk about, but I believe it's anniversary time.

• 9:57Speaker 03

  Wedding, yes. Yeah, why would you just, yeah, so I won your first year.

• 10:01Nick Grimshaw?

  Yes, congratulations.

• 10:02Speaker 03

  Thank you very much, we made it.

• 10:04Nick Grimshaw?

  Made it, yeah, rest is easy.

• 10:08Nick Grimshaw?

  What was the food discussions around the wedding?

• 10:11Speaker 03

  We divided and conquered, right? So certain things with Tori's department, certain things my department. The food was my department. Do you know Robyn Gill?

• 10:20Angela Hartnett?

  Of course, very well.

• 10:22Speaker 03

  He's wonderful and he has a restaurant in London called Derby's. He has a couple, actually, but like his main one is Derby's. He cannot make anything that isn't delicious. And he doesn't do wedding catering or catering like at all, really. But I said to him, would you cater my wedding? And he said, yes. And he did the canapes, things like beef shin croquettes. He actually calls them like Big Mac nuggets. He did these like nori seaweed crisps with crab on top. He did dressed oysters, fancy, right? When we sat down, because I think sometimes at weddings, you're hungry. And I was like, I just don't want anyone to be hungry. So you walk in and there was food on the table.

• 11:03Speaker 03

  Some people sit down, Henry VIII style, and there was things like incredible crudité, the bread he makes, whipped like smoked cod's roe, which is just beautiful. And then for the mains, he was bringing over like full lamb shoulders per four people. He made a lamb magaz, um, ragout with like a crispy top, which is incredible. And these like light summary courgette salads and dings. And then, did you want this much detail, by the way?

• 11:31Nick Grimshaw?

  I do, exactly what I want.

• 11:33Angela Hartnett?

  This is the whole podcast, your wedding breakfast.

• 11:36Nick Grimshaw?

  I really, really do.

• 11:37Speaker 03

  And like, and he had like these, these bright like brata peach salads and I'm forgetting things, but just, I said to him, just overdo it. Like if there's food still on the tables, that's a good sign. Like I just want people to ram it in. But yeah, that was just awesome. And then we had Black Bear Burger doing our evening food.

• 11:55Angela Hartnett?

  Nice, yeah.

• 11:56Speaker 03

  Which was if people weren't full enough.

• 11:57Nick Grimshaw?

  What did you have, Ange, on your wedding day? Because you and Neil.

• 12:01Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 12:01Nick Grimshaw?

  Come on.

• 12:02Angela Hartnett?

  Well, I had the same as you. I had the table and Margot, you know, Margot Henderson, she gave me the best advice. I said, oh, I don't know what to do. And she goes, just choose the food you love the most and then plan your wedding day around that time of year. And I love the summer, so we had like these great asparagus and crab salads. We had bold plates of tortellata on the table. We had big ribeyes of beef. And just again, all on the table, all coming at the same time. And I think that's what my fear, I said, want people to, the fact that at the end of it, I'd ordered so much wine, we were still drinking for another half year of wedding. I mean, I'd gone overboard.

• 12:38Nick Grimshaw?

  I thought it was like half an hour.

• 12:39Angela Hartnett?

  No, no, no. I, I basically over ordered everything. And the next day I was like taking things like asparagus and crab to Labour's and stuff. But I wanted it generous. I don't like it when you feel, my mum's never forgotten going to a wedding where she asked for another potato and they said, no, there's only two per guest. And my mum goes, well, I don't know why they're marrying into this family. I go, she's got, she's got a point, she's got a point, you know? No, you want that, you know? So I think it's, you know, and we had like loads of nibbles when people were standing having drinks. And then at the end, everyone went downstairs to a massive cheese board and Eccles cakes and stuff like that, you know, so.

• 13:14Speaker 03

  I overdid it on the booze as well.

• 13:16Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah, you do though, don't you? You don't want any, you don't want to run out, can you imagine?

• 13:20Speaker 03

  Also, I was having nightmares of just running out of booze.

• 13:22Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 13:24Speaker 03

  I had a little spreadsheet of everything and I ordered 1,086 beers. Do you know how many were drunk?

• 13:30Nick Grimshaw?

  How many?

• 13:30Speaker 03

  260.

• 13:31Angela Hartnett?

  No.

• 13:32Speaker 03

  So I had like 800 beers left. I had a pallet, I had a whole pallet and the venue was going, you need to come and pick up this beer.

• 13:38Angela Hartnett?

  Come get those beers, yeah.

• 13:40Speaker 03

  And so Tori's dad was just giving builders, case of Stella, for a long time. But we also had spicy mugs and we had martinis, Negronis. People like, you have a couple of beers and then you move on.

• 13:51Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah, you move on. Good advice there.

• 13:56Nick Grimshaw?

  Jesse, we should do your food likes and your dislikes. We always like to do this. Your dislike, you said allergic to raw cherries, lol.

• 14:05Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, because there are lots of common allergies and I just think raw cherries is a really weird one. They don't kill me.

• 14:11Nick Grimshaw?

  No, we'll be fine. I went to see like, Angela said this about 18,000 times. I went to see like, um.

• 14:19Angela Hartnett?

  18,001? I'm just gonna go in the kitchen while you chat. No, no, genuinely.

• 14:26Angela Hartnett?

  Only because I've got to cook this all from fresh. I'm still here, I'm still here.

• 14:31Nick Grimshaw?

  No, I went to see like a herbal nutritionist, basically. And she did all these tests on me because I kept having allergic reactions, but I couldn't figure out what it was. And she was saying it's not one thing, it is histamines.

• 14:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 14:45Nick Grimshaw?

  And she was like the cherries or like, you know, maybe I'd have some cheese and I'd get like a bright red face, but then not the next time, very weird.

• 14:52Speaker 03

  Because I had a cherry in Morocco, those things pack a punch. Don't know what it is about being in Morocco, but wow.

• 14:59Nick Grimshaw?

  Especially if you're allergic to them, wow. And then your loves, I like that you did this because sometimes people list like specific ingredients or sometimes people tell us a story with each thing. But you went for cuisines, which I liked. So you said like classic British food, Cantonese food. Could we have a favorite dish or meal from each of the following?

• 15:19Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 15:20Nick Grimshaw?

  From you, Jesse. So you said classic British food. What would you, what would you go for as your, your favorite from that genre?

• 15:26Speaker 03

  Sausage mash, um, pie.

• 15:29Nick Grimshaw?

  Pie.

• 15:30Speaker 03

  A really good pie, really good gravy, great mash.

• 15:34Angela Hartnett?

  Where's your best pie in London?

• 15:36Speaker 03

  There's a pub in Highgate called Red Lion and Sun, which you've probably been to. He's a place. And they always have a pie on and that is a full pie, contained pie. And that is always awesome, always good, that pie.

• 15:48Nick Grimshaw?

  Cantonese food, what would you go for as your sort of favorite Cantonese dish?

• 15:52Speaker 03

  I just, I think dim sum is just the best thing ever. There's a place called Phoenix Palace in Baker Street. And they do these lobster, crispy lobster dumplings in a, like a mango sauce.

• 16:04Nick Grimshaw?

  You know, I've never been there, I really want to go. You've said you love Punjabi food.

• 16:08Speaker 03

  I love Punjabi food.

• 16:09Nick Grimshaw?

  What's your favorite dish, do you think?

• 16:11Speaker 03

  Anything that comes out of Tandoor is gonna be good.

• 16:13Nick Grimshaw?

  Yes.

• 16:13Speaker 03

  I love the like dry crispy edges that you get on meats when it comes out of Tandoor.

• 16:19Nick Grimshaw?

  Filipino food was one of your other favorites that you loves. What'd you go for as your star Filipino dish?

• 16:26Speaker 03

  I think Filipino flavors are incredible and I think it's gonna be a cuisine that we're gonna see a lot more of in the Western world. All, all their flavors, their textures are great. It's quite sour, acidic, punchy, things like adobo, you must have had like adobo, chicken adobo or something.

• 16:45Nick Grimshaw?

  Maybe I have.

• 16:45Speaker 03

  It's just like vinegar, soy, garlic, but it's the sinagang, which is this like sour sort of soup they have, which is kind of like a curry, but not like a curry. They do like kinilao, which is like their version of ceviche. They are just bold and punchy flavors. And pork lechon, crispy pork in this like liver sauce that is so good.

• 17:07Nick Grimshaw?

  Now, your also loves were hazy IPA, which we already have. The rest of yours was, was quite sausage forward. You would love Angela to make.

• 17:18Speaker 03

  Well, that's what we've got, it was quite.

• 17:20Nick Grimshaw?

  Sorry, I just had a lot of sausage. Sausage casserole, bangers and mash, that sort of thing.

• 17:26Speaker 03

  I'm a sausage smoker guy.

• 17:27Nick Grimshaw?

  We didn't do a sausage casserole today because we thought it's genuinely 34 degrees outside. And not, you can't tell in here, but it just felt, you know, I mean, I kind of really anything at any time of the year.

• 17:40Speaker 03

  Same.

• 17:41Nick Grimshaw?

  I really, really would. I'm not like strict in like, oh, I don't want to roast in the summer or anything like that. But yeah, we, you wanted a sausage casserole, we didn't do one. Have you been somewhere where you've had like the best sausage casserole and you've loved it?

• 17:55Speaker 03

  Growing up, my mum's favorite dish, like the dish that I loved of my mum's was a sausage casserole. And even now, I'll go home and I'm like, you want to do that sausage casserole?

• 18:04Angela Hartnett?

  What does she put in it?

• 18:06Speaker 03

  So she basically, so slices up potato, almost like going to a dough from wire or something, like very thin. And then she kind of puts like a broth into that with a lot of lardons, the sausages. I'm not sure what else, but it is, it is really good.

• 18:21Nick Grimshaw?

  Now, another thing we always like to have on dishes, like food opinions that maybe raise an eyebrow.

• 18:27Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 18:28Nick Grimshaw?

  And we asked you for some of these, you supplied three excellent ones. First of all, you had one about London and you think London is the best city in the world for food.

• 18:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:38Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah. Now, I think that and I, I don't know, like it's one of those things that I think maybe London's not always had that reputation of. And you still see like Americans like taking, complaining about British food.

• 18:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, which is, quite a lot of them have never been to Britain.

• 18:55Nick Grimshaw?

  Right.

• 18:57Speaker 03

  So they might have just seen content of some really sad looking fish and chips or jelly eels.

• 19:02Nick Grimshaw?

  Bad fry up or something.

• 19:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, and they go, oh. Or they might have come to the UK and gone to a touristy restaurant, had that and gone, this sucks. Correct. But we don't just have Indian food. We have Carolyn food and Punjabi food and food from like the north of, of India as well as the mid, we have such a dichotomy of every single type of cuisine. And I also think our average quality of like restaurant is so much higher than anywhere else. And for a long time, I think New York had that title and then London's just gone.

• 19:36Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah. What do you think that is and what do you think that is, Angela? Like why, because London had that shift, do you think? Because it does feel, it always felt like New York had that thing about food, didn't it? What do you think it is?

• 19:49Angela Hartnett?

  I think it's the immigration thing, isn't it? We have so many different nationalities come in here now. I think food's become something that now everyone is, everyone's got an opinion on, everyone's got involved. And where we have now come like, become like New York, we've said it before on here, is we have neighborhoods. You know, I've been going to New York for the last 30 years and you always have the neighbors, you have your Chinese, your Indian, your local Italian. And we never had that in London, you always had to come central. But now, I mean, you don't need to leave your neighborhood.

• 20:18Nick Grimshaw?

  I don't.

• 20:18Angela Hartnett?

  I don't need to leave my, I don't know where, you know, but you know what I mean? You've got everything on your doorstep. And I think, and I also think because in some respects, we don't necessarily, although I think we do, but people would argue we don't necessarily have a British cuisine. You know, you don't find many English restaurants, do you?

• 20:35Speaker 03

  Well, we have pubs, which are only getting better and better and better.

• 20:38Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 20:39Speaker 03

  If you go to somewhere like the George in Pennsylvania, you have their Scotch egg that has black pudding, like the sausage of the Scotch egg is laced with black pudding. And then they serve it with their own like house made brown sauce. It's incredible.

• 20:53Nick Grimshaw?

  The other food opinion was marmite and honey is the best toast topping.

• 20:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:57Nick Grimshaw?

  I agree.

• 20:58Speaker 03

  Do you?

• 20:58Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah, it's a rarity.

• 21:00Speaker 03

  Calm down, Jess.

• 21:02Nick Grimshaw?

  It's a rarity, but yeah, absolutely delicious.

• 21:05Speaker 03

  Because it's just, I think everyone's aware now that sweet and salty is the best flavour combination. And, you know, you have that like earthy marmite, you had the sweet honey on good like sourdough toast.

• 21:18Nick Grimshaw?

  Sensational. You said finally table dishes need to be more of a thing.

• 21:24Speaker 03

  Yes, okay, so when you.

• 21:25Nick Grimshaw?

  Like a sharer.

• 21:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, so when you go to a restaurant, I mean, so many restaurants now are more sharing concepts, right? Or the controversial small plates. But yeah, it's all about sort of like bit of this, bit of that. But conventionally, you go to a restaurant and you have your main dish, whatever. And quite often you're thinking, oh, but, you know, I'd love to try their pizza or this, that, your dish. Just order it.

• 21:48Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah.

• 21:48Speaker 03

  So if you're in a group, just order your thing and then a couple of just table dishes. So everyone can just scratch the itch of the menu item that they so desired.

• 21:58Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah, it was like a floater sort of pizza.

• 22:00Speaker 03

  Floater, yeah. It's always good in food.

• 22:03Nick Grimshaw?

  Floater, right. Maybe table dishes is a better name.

• 22:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:08Nick Grimshaw?

  Yes, but they're good pints all round there, Jesse.

• 22:13Nick Grimshaw?

  Food is here, Angela.

• 22:14Angela Hartnett?

  Yep.

• 22:15Nick Grimshaw?

  This looks great. We have lemon chicken. Uh, will you fill us in? Will you tell us how you made this for us today?

• 22:23Angela Hartnett?

  So we have a lemon chicken by Suling and it's really simple. So you basically season your oil first. You take your spring onions, you cut the white bit of the spring onions and you season your vegetable oil. Once you've sort of let them go slightly crispy, tiny bit brown, remove them from the oil, but keep the oil and discard the spring onion bit. And then you have eggs whisked in a plate, then you have your cornflour mixed with white pepper and salt. They call it velveting and this is when you basically dip your chicken breasts into the egg mix, then into the cornflour and it's the cornflour with this egg mix that basically locks in sort of the moisture of the chicken when you cook it and fry it. And then into that oil, you fry your chicken breasts until they're nice and golden brown, cooked in the centre,

• 23:08Angela Hartnett?

  probably about, you know, four to five minutes. And then finish it, you make this lemon sauce and the lemon sauce is unwaxed lemons, caster sugar, clear honey, all into a pan and then add a little bit of cornstarch and that sort of thickens it up and that's your lemon sauce. And then finish with the green of the spring onions.

• 23:24Speaker 03

  Mmm. And I love the combination of the sesame oil on the cucumber with the lemon sauce as well. They are going well together.

• 23:31Nick Grimshaw?

  Yes, you're doing like a cucumber sesame oil.

• 23:34Angela Hartnett?

  Sesame oil cucumbers, yeah. So that's basically salt your cucumbers, you know, peel the skin, take, remove all the sort of seeds inside and then you've got fine salt, rice vinegar, crispy chili, tahini, soya sauce, caster sugar, sesame seeds and a little bit of coriander at the end. And then you can have some chili on the end as well.

• 23:52Nick Grimshaw?

  Hmm, it's great. So good. Do you have any tips for this shallow frying? Because I saw you doing it and you, because you are the chef, you were doing it while I was like talking to someone. It was like, so I was like, if I was doing that, it would be a hot mess and you were just like doing it. So we're like, what are your good tips?

• 24:09Angela Hartnett?

  I mean, I, you know, I'm always using a spoon. I mean, you must have seen so many chefs in kitchens. There was certain people have certain, I always use a spoon to cook. I think in this instance, use tongs properly. So you basically turn your chicken on the side, you know, because you don't want it just crispy on top, crispy on the other. You know, it's thick, so you want it crispy on the side. And then hot oil, but not blistering, because if it's blistering, when it goes in, it will start to burn and just keep turning it. And if you feel it gets a bit brown, change your pan. You know, don't be afraid to then get a fresh oil if you suddenly feel it's not cooked and you want to cook it a bit more.

• 24:40Nick Grimshaw?

  And then what is the sort of tip to making this sort of glossy sauce at home? How to make that, that sort of glossy Cantonese?

• 24:48Angela Hartnett?

  You've got your lemon juice, your sugar and your honey. And then it's when you add the cornflour, it's the cornflour, that's cornflour starch that gives it that sort of glossy. And it basically like acts as a roof, it thickens it.

• 24:58Nick Grimshaw?

  Right.

• 24:58Angela Hartnett?

  You know, and we've had it in every Chinese restaurant we've been to, haven't you? You know, you've had it with your pork, your chicken and stuff, but it is cornflour and that's what, and you can have that, you see?

• 25:05Speaker 03

  Exactly. They're including free cats, it's delicious.

• 25:08Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 25:09Speaker 03

  So as a rule, when, when you have guests on the show and food, do, do people really eat everything?

• 25:15Nick Grimshaw?

  I thought like the Hollywood stars wouldn't really go for it. Like Natalie Portman came on and I thought Natalie Portman's not going to be chowing down a meal, is she? And she had seconds. She was mad for it. Uh, if you want to try this dish at home, all the ingredients and the recipe, the how to, waitrose.com/dishrecipes. They are all on there. Angela has recorded a video or will be recording a video of how to do it.

• 25:41Speaker 03

  It's very tasty.

• 25:42Nick Grimshaw?

  It's really good, yeah. And there's also a wine pairing as well. We've got a Sancerre to go with it, Ange.

• 25:47Angela Hartnett?

  So crispy Sancerre Sauvignon Blanc, high natural acidity, bright citrus nose, perfect with this lemon chicken.

• 25:54Nick Grimshaw?

  Mmm.

• 25:55Angela Hartnett?

  There you go.

• 25:55Nick Grimshaw?

  Delicious, thank you.

• 25:56Angela Hartnett?

  I like it. Are you a wine drinker, Jesse?

• 25:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, I do. I, I, I do like wine. I do love beer, like to the point, not that it's a problem.

• 26:06Nick Grimshaw?

  Right.

• 26:08Speaker 03

  Like, should I drink less beer?

• 26:09Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 26:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, probably. Um, I was like, I like it all. I'm like a, a human wheelie bin.

• 26:15Nick Grimshaw?

  And hey, we should talk about Knife Edge, brand new series of Knife Edge Chasing Michelin Stars. Um, season two is coming to Apple TV. Um, first one was a huge success and it was so good, the first one. Um, tell us all about how you got involved in this, because I know that, well, you two now share a bus in Gordon Ramsay.

• 26:34Speaker 03

  We do. Are you not sort of free from the throne?

• 26:37Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah, he's not my boss anymore.

• 26:38Nick Grimshaw?

  Not anymore.

• 26:39Angela Hartnett?

  I sort of feel like it.

• 26:40Speaker 03

  Once upon a time.

• 26:41Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah, once upon a time you shared a bus, yes. Yeah, but, but fill us in, tell us all about it.

• 26:45Speaker 03

  I had breakfast with Gordon in the early days of series one and it was all very nice. It's quite intimidating when Gordon isn't being, you know, when Gordon's just sat there with his arms like this, just looking at you. You go, oh, fuck, like, we've really got to deliver here, just in this conversation.

• 27:05Nick Grimshaw?

  Where did you go for breakfast?

• 27:07Speaker 03

  Oh my God, what's that place that's just off Savile Row?

• 27:09Angela Hartnett?

  Oh, not Chacony, is it?

• 27:10Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 27:11Angela Hartnett?

  Oh, Chacony.

• 27:11Speaker 03

  And he has a particular table, he likes to sit at a particular angle and yeah, probably shouldn't be sent there.

• 27:16Nick Grimshaw?

  What angle does he like to sit at?

• 27:18Speaker 03

  Sort of sideways, I think.

• 27:23Speaker 03

  And even forty five.

• 27:30Speaker 03

  He can be so loud to tell the story.

• 27:32Angela Hartnett?

  So hold on, you, you'd already started filming and then you had breakfast?

• 27:37Speaker 03

  No, so it was just, just before kickoff.

• 27:38Angela Hartnett?

  Right, okay.

• 27:39Speaker 03

  And he just says, we're having this nice conversation, trading stories, yada, yada, yada, talking about Top Gear and stuff. And he just goes, you know, Jess, and I really vouch for you to get this, so don't fuck up.

• 27:51Nick Grimshaw?

  Oh.

• 27:52Speaker 03

  And I was like, huh, oh, yeah. You know, when you sort of like think someone's joking and then like, oh, they're, oh, they're not joking.

• 27:58Angela Hartnett?

  He's not joking.

• 27:59Nick Grimshaw?

  And then for anyone that's not watched it, it's you following chefs sometimes for, for a long time, for like a year, isn't it?

• 28:04Speaker 03

  I can't believe that's the story I've told to set you up.

• 28:08Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah, make me watch it.

• 28:09Angela Hartnett?

  You may well have fucked it up now, Jess. That may be a little letter in the pipe.

• 28:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's waddling a bit there.

• 28:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's called Knife Edge Chasing Michelin Stars and basically it follows chefs all over the world as they are desperately like working towards winning a Michelin star. And either they're trying to go from zero to one, one to two, two to three, or, or getting a, like a big gold mine or something. And yeah, I mean, I, I, I got a call, because I've just come from social media, never done TV. And I had a call from my manager, Lucy Lovridge, and she just said, listen, there's a show that's been made by Apple TV with Studio Ramsay, uh, about Michelin guide and about chefs all over the world trying to get stars. And I think I said to her, look, I, I don't think I've got a hope in hell of getting that gig. I did like a bunch of screen tests. I went to Sweden, which seemed unnecessary to, to take me to Sweden

• 29:01Speaker 03

  to check if I was like right for this thing.

• 29:03Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah.

• 29:05Speaker 03

  And I don't feel like I get nervous like that much, like when you're on camera so much, like what's another camera? But I was nervous.

• 29:11Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah, maybe because it felt like auditioning, maybe it's different.

• 29:14Angela Hartnett?

  And also bigger Apple TV, huge.

• 29:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:17Nick Grimshaw?

  I think I'd feel nervous for that, for sure, for sure. And then it's quite a fascinating process, what they have to go through, like the Michelin world. Like, run us through what is, what is judged on?

• 29:28Speaker 03

  So you got, you got the stars, right? And so back in the day, when it first started, it was, the Michelin guide was started by a tyre company and they wanted people to drive more, but they launched the guide when there was about three thousand cars on the road in France. So not many, and they just wanted to sell every one of those tyres and get them to wear tyres down more so they could sell more.

• 29:46Angela Hartnett?

  And it was all based on the fact that everyone in, you know, in the summer, like now in Paris, will all go down to the south of France. And it's that, I think it's the N sixty eight, whatever that road is. And, you know, and they're, sorry to interrupt, but there's Sophie, Anne Sophie Pick, her, her family have been in the guide since the beginning. And they have every single guide.

• 30:05Nick Grimshaw?

  Wow.

• 30:05Angela Hartnett?

  From her grandfather, if you ever go to that restaurant, they're all in there. But anyway, I digress, apologies.

• 30:10Speaker 03

  No, you didn't digress at all. So one star is, is worth a stop. So you're meant to be driving past and go, sure.

• 30:16Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 30:17Speaker 03

  Let's pull over.

• 30:18Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 30:18Speaker 03

  Um, two star is exceptional cooking, so much so there's worthy of a detour.

• 30:22Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 30:23Speaker 03

  And three star is the pinnacle of cuisine, make your destination. And of course, as time's gone on and they became more and more, um, well-respected, the standard got higher and higher. And so one star is a massive deal.

• 30:36Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah.

• 30:37Speaker 03

  Like, and, and one star is enough to be a destination restaurant, but they still talk about this, like.

• 30:42Nick Grimshaw?

  But I never knew that, that was the, the, the, the how it began.

• 30:46Angela Hartnett?

  First inspector I talked to after I got my first star at the Connaught and I said, well, how do you get it? He goes, one star's consistency.

• 30:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:53Angela Hartnett?

  So you always have a consistent meal every time you go there. Two star, which he says you start to see the chef's identity.

• 31:00Nick Grimshaw?

  Hmm.

• 31:00Angela Hartnett?

  So you would, you know, and actually if you look at people like Heston or Ferran, you know, you see their identity as a, as a chef and their style. And then three star, he says you could do a blind tasting of those dishes.

• 31:12Nick Grimshaw?

  And know it.

• 31:13Angela Hartnett?

  And know that's Heston, that's Gordon Ramsay.

• 31:15Speaker 03

  You know, like if you hear a, hear a track by Pharrell or something, or Timbaland, you go, that's probably there.

• 31:20Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah.

• 31:20Speaker 03

  That's what a three star dish would be like. You should taste it and go, well, that's clearly Helena Rose or something.

• 31:27Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah, exactly, yeah.

• 31:29Speaker 03

  They judge on five main criteria. They do not care if they drop a fork.

• 31:34Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 31:34Speaker 03

  And someone comes and picks it up within ten seconds or whatever. And I, I love all these myths.

• 31:39Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 31:39Speaker 03

  And because having done this show and spoken to inspectors and the CEO of Michelin, like I've, I've asked them all the questions.

• 31:46Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 31:47Speaker 03

  And I've still got more questions to ask, but it's all about the food on the plate in front of them, which is why places like a taco stand in Mexico City has got a star or a noodle bar in Singapore has got a star.

• 31:58Angela Hartnett?

  Or the, or Giro in the Underground in Tokyo. Yeah, three star.

• 32:02Speaker 03

  Or the omelette place in Thailand, yeah. It's all to do with personality on the plate, the, the consistency. So they won't just inspect you once and go, bing, star. If an inspector comes in, they will then say, right, this needs to be checked. People will come in, other inspectors come in, they need to be unanimous. So they'll meet before the ceremony. And like a jury, if one of them goes, I had a terrible time, or it wasn't quite it for me, boom.

• 32:30Nick Grimshaw?

  That's it. Oh, wow.

• 32:31Speaker 03

  So even if three of them are saying, I love this place, it's definitely worthy of a star. Everyone needs to be convinced, which is why every single service matters.

• 32:40Nick Grimshaw?

  Wow.

• 32:41Speaker 03

  So personality on a plate, the consistency, the harmony of flavours, which is kind of an obvious one. The mastery of cooking techniques, so they can tell, you know, oh my God, this has taken an unbelievable amount of work with training. And then the quality of produce.

• 32:59Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 33:00Speaker 03

  Which is, again, kind of obvious, but a one-star restaurant is going to be using really exceptional produce. And one of my favourite of the Michelin guide is the bib gourmand. The whole point of the bib gourmand is, I'm going to keep saying bib, saying bib gourmand sounds arsey. So if you get a bib, it means that you are doing exceptional food at a really reasonable price. And so they have, for each territory, they have like a different budget that needs to fit within. And so I think in the UK, it's like, if you can go have a meal for under fifty quid, you qualify for a bib. And of course, these guys aren't going to be using the same ingredients that like a two or three-star restaurant will be. But they'll still be doing really, really good cooking. So they're really, really fun, those ones.

• 33:39Nick Grimshaw?

  And that's why you see on your show or other shows like this, where you're seeing those Michelin star chefs at work, like, you know, they're inspecting a potato. Like the chef is like looking at it, feeding it, like not that one, like they're really taking the details.

• 33:52Speaker 03

  If you ever see someone come in with truffles, they did it, I think, when we were filming. They came in with a truffle basket.

• 33:59Angela Hartnett?

  We had truffles come here once.

• 34:00Speaker 03

  She had the truffle dealer of cashing hand.

• 34:04Speaker 03

  They literally come in with like a tea towel.

• 34:08Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah, exactly, yeah.

• 34:09Speaker 03

  And the chef would smell it and.

• 34:12Angela Hartnett?

  No, but the whole point is, at the end of the day, I mean, I think Ducasse probably said it, you know, it's, we're actually, if you've got quality ingredients, your job is halved, you know, that's the whole point. You know, if you've got a great chicken, you don't need to do much to it because it's going to taste great anyway. You have peaches that are in season or tomatoes that taste really beautiful and sweet and delicious. You know, it's when you're trying to cook a tomato in January, then you think, oh yeah, I've got it. Well, why cook a tomato in January? You know, and that's where I think is so, you know, it makes sense, yeah. But it's amazing how everyone thinks it's about the plates, the artwork, you know, the atmosphere. And I don't think it's anything about, it's absolutely what's on that plate, you know.

• 34:52Speaker 03

  Of course, service does sort of matter because if you get your plate cold or whatever.

• 34:55Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah, that's a big thing, yeah.

• 34:57Speaker 03

  That does affect things.

• 34:59Nick Grimshaw?

  And then the inspectors, tell us about them because they're quite elusive and they live quite a sort of mad spy-like life. They can't tell anyone they're an inspector.

• 35:08Speaker 03

  No, they're like immediate family now, but they, it's so mad.

• 35:13Nick Grimshaw?

  It's so nuts. I love that this goes on in this.

• 35:16Speaker 03

  It seems like a film, which is why I think this whole conversation is really kind of controversial. Because people go, I don't believe it. They don't do that. It's all underhand. No, no, no, no. They do live life like the CIA, which is crazy. They're paid well. They like employing former lawyers because lawyers are very black and white. And they're not necessarily going to be emotionally invested with the chef. Because if you came to say, Angela's restaurant, got on really well, Angela went, I'm going to give it three stars.

• 35:46Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah.

• 35:49Nick Grimshaw?

  Three, lover.

• 35:50Speaker 03

  Let's make it four.

• 35:54Speaker 03

  You know, they don't want that. You don't want anyone engaging, no one with this sort of like ulterior motive or agenda.

• 36:00Angela Hartnett?

  It's interesting you say that because I've held a star, no, no, no, I've held a star since two thousand and two or three. I can't remember. Anyway, a while. And back in the day, when they, because maybe less restaurants, you would speak to an inspector.

• 36:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:15Angela Hartnett?

  They would sometimes give you the con and say, we'll come back to Moraday for a chat or something, especially if they had any feedback or something. You don't get any of that now.

• 36:23Speaker 03

  I think with social media, they would just get rumbled.

• 36:25Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah. And I think, yeah, exactly. They just don't do that because, you know, I was, because, you know, I was talking to someone. He said, I said, just write to them, you know, be humble about it. Say you'd love to be inspected, blah, blah, blah. Ask for some feedback. They may write back, they may not. But, you know, I met quite a few inspectors in the back in the day. So, oh God, I recognize them when they've come in or you know them. But you're right now.

• 36:43Nick Grimshaw?

  Were they quite stern? Like, were they quite loyal?

• 36:45Angela Hartnett?

  No, I'll be absolutely honest. There was one time, and it's exactly what just you said, it's about consistency. There was one time I wasn't working that day. My head chef rang me at the time. He goes, Angela, we have the inspector in and it wasn't good. And I went, oh, right, brilliant. You know, he goes, he's coming back tomorrow. And I said, okay, I'm around tomorrow. So he came back tomorrow. He had another meal again. And then, and I knew him. So I said, I went out and chatted to him. I said, listen, I know, he goes, listen, Angela, you've been with us a long time. This is a little heads up. We had a bad meal yesterday. This has been brilliant. You know, don't do, you know, don't screw up, basically. And I think in that sense, they're not stupid, you know, that, because, you know, they're not going to suddenly just take it away because they know restaurants are based around human beings.

• 37:27Angela Hartnett?

  You know, there's so many margins of error, you know, so be fair to someone, you know. But he said, you know, they wouldn't have given, they wouldn't have made me a one-star then based on that meal. That's because, you know, in the sense he said, because, you know, there were too many mistakes and, you know, the head chef wasn't on it. I said, Jesus, this is a wake-up call, you know, for God's sake, you've got to be on everything.

• 37:46Nick Grimshaw?

  It's the most hardcore thing, like, you know, it never stops and you're working all day and then it's like showtime. And then you've got to manage all these, you know, deliveries and bookings and staff and people's emotions. And then when you're leveling up the levels, like the pressure.

• 38:01Angela Hartnett?

  I also think, I don't know, based on chefs in London who I know wanted a star and still haven't got one. I think the worst thing you do is overtry for it. I think cook the food you want to cook. Cook for your restaurant, cook for your customers, you know, and then I think it will come. Glory will come, but get whatever you're doing on that plate right. And, you know, and put all that love and attention into doing that. Not think, oh God, I went to Gordon's, that's what they do, so I'm going to do that. You know, forget that. Just cook the food you really love and want. And then I think it will come. I think the worst mistake you do is try and just copy what other people are doing. Or you went to Mountain and suddenly you're like, okay, I'm going to do what, you know, and it's like, no, just cook great food.

• 38:43Speaker 03

  I know chefs who have done that. They've tried to do what they think Michelin wants. And then they just go, oh, you know what? This, I give up. I'm just going to make yummy food. Don't care.

• 38:54Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 38:54Speaker 03

  They get a star. Literally within, and they go, oh, okay.

• 38:57Nick Grimshaw?

  Oh, okay.

• 38:58Speaker 03

  Wish I hadn't spent three years doing that crap.

• 39:00Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also you have to run a business, you know, and I think that, and I did have one, was it Michelin, it might have been Michelin, an inspector come in, they said, oh, maybe you've got too many tables at Morano. I said, I am running a business. I can't take away a table of four covers. You know how much that's going to cost me in a year? You know, so you have to run a business. And also people don't want to ever now eat in silent. You know, you two are too young, but I remember restaurants where it was like, shh.

• 39:26Nick Grimshaw?

  No, I hate that. It's my worst thing. I always love, you mentioned Mountain, I always love going to Mountain because it's so busy and noisy. And I, I love that because I always think that was my first experience of going to a restaurant as a kid. Like, we didn't go out to eat all the time, but we'd always go to this Italian in town in Manchester on a Saturday night.

• 39:45Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah, you were the boss of.

• 39:46Nick Grimshaw?

  Packed and noisy. It was just like a family Italian. It was like busy and vibey and I loved it. And I always liked that in Mountain because I'm like, we're out. You know, I like that, that feeling.

• 39:57Speaker 03

  It's fun that you mention Mountain because I think there's a few common misconceptions with Michelin star restaurants. So they are like that. They're super stuffy, they're white glove, it's like being in a jewellery store. And to be honest, today it's not like that. Like, I don't think I've ever been to a restaurant in the last like few years that has been that stuffy. They're more just contemporary and just really good restaurants. And the other misconception, I think, is you mentioned about like taking away a four top. Like I remember talking to Clorbozy and he was saying that, you know, he had a two-star restaurant called Bebendam. And he was saying, you know, that this table of four bailed, basically cancelled last minute or whatever. He said, what people don't realise is, if the whole restaurant's full, including that table, I'll make some money.

• 40:41Speaker 03

  If that one table doesn't turn up, I'm not making any money. It's, the margins are so thin on like, especially on fine dining. And I think sometimes you feel like when you go to a restaurant, you're spending a lot of money, it's all very elegant and high-end. You think like, okay, the chef's going to be rich or the restaurant owner is going to be like driving off to the sunset in a Ferrari every day like.

• 41:04Speaker 03

  And it's just, and that's just not like the case. If you want to be rich, do not open a.

• 41:10Angela Hartnett?

  A restaurant.

• 41:10Speaker 03

  A fine dining restaurant.

• 41:12Nick Grimshaw?

  Fine dining restaurant, yeah. You can see Knife Edge on Apple TV from the twenty-fifth of September, season two of that. You can watch the first series right now.

• 41:23Nick Grimshaw?

  Jessie Burgess, it is time for your fast food quiz. I'm gonna go and do my top jaw with you.

• 41:29Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 41:30Nick Grimshaw?

  Momentarily. You do top jaw standing up, obviously.

• 41:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:33Nick Grimshaw?

  So we thought maybe we'd do fast food quiz stood up edition.

• 41:37Speaker 03

  Bye, bye, bye.

• 41:38Nick Grimshaw?

  Right, yeah.

• 41:40Angela Hartnett?

  Okay.

• 41:40Nick Grimshaw?

  Okay.

• 41:41Speaker 03

  Do you have that klaxon going off?

• 41:45Nick Grimshaw?

  Jessie, it is time for your fast food quiz.

• 41:47Speaker 03

  We all got, but if we're doing top jaw, we've got to stand aside. But literally, no. Yeah, do you remember?

• 41:51Angela Hartnett?

  No, you've done that close. Across the road from me. Across the road. But you weren't that close.

• 41:57Nick Grimshaw?

  Yes, and always.

• 41:58Angela Hartnett?

  You've done that close.

• 41:59Speaker 03

  Always, always.

• 42:00Nick Grimshaw?

  Tell us, Jessie, your favourite way to eat eggs?

• 42:02Speaker 03

  Post.

• 42:03Angela Hartnett?

  What's your favourite sandwich filling?

• 42:06Speaker 03

  Coronation chicken.

• 42:07Nick Grimshaw?

  What is the best chocolate bar on the market?

• 42:09Speaker 03

  Can I say Double Decker?

• 42:10Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah, of course you can.

• 42:11Speaker 03

  Nice.

• 42:12Angela Hartnett?

  Favourite form of potato?

• 42:15Speaker 03

  It's gotta be chips, isn't it?

• 42:16Angela Hartnett?

  That's all right.

• 42:18Nick Grimshaw?

  What is the best crisp?

• 42:20Speaker 03

  Oh, can I have the Thai chili rice crackers? Is that a crisp?

• 42:24Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 42:24Speaker 03

  No.

• 42:25Nick Grimshaw?

  I don't know if that's a crisp.

• 42:26Speaker 03

  No, there's a brand called Saversmiths. Just they're like salted Saversmiths.

• 42:31Angela Hartnett?

  Okay, like that.

• 42:32Speaker 03

  Or if I'm feeling a bit romantic, the truffle ones.

• 42:34Angela Hartnett?

  Oh, very nice. What's your favourite kitchen utensil?

• 42:37Speaker 03

  Dishwasher, is that utensil?

• 42:39Angela Hartnett?

  That's a good one.

• 42:40Nick Grimshaw?

  It actually is the best.

• 42:42Angela Hartnett?

  That's the best one, I like that one.

• 42:44Nick Grimshaw?

  And what is your favourite beverage, hot or cold?

• 42:47Speaker 03

  IPA.

• 42:48Nick Grimshaw?

  IPA.

• 42:48Speaker 03

  Or coffee. How is your IPA?

• 42:51Nick Grimshaw?

  How is it?

• 42:51Speaker 03

  Or coffee.

• 42:52Angela Hartnett?

  Or coffee, okay. What's your favourite Sunday roast? As in like chicken, beef?

• 42:57Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 42:59Angela Hartnett?

  Ooh.

• 42:59Speaker 03

  Chicken's reliable.

• 43:00Angela Hartnett?

  That's good, good choice, choice.

• 43:02Nick Grimshaw?

  What's the best pasta?

• 43:03Speaker 03

  Uh, babadelle.

• 43:04Angela Hartnett?

  What's your favourite pizza topping?

• 43:05Speaker 03

  I'm like, huh.

• 43:07Nick Grimshaw?

  Now you know how we feel.

• 43:09Speaker 03

  Um, pizza topping is, oh, stracciatella with some spicy sausage.

• 43:16Angela Hartnett?

  Okay, nice.

• 43:17Nick Grimshaw?

  And finally, dish from your childhood?

• 43:19Speaker 03

  Uh, my mum's sausage casserole.

• 43:21Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah, lovely. Very nice, very good.

• 43:24Nick Grimshaw?

  Jessie.

• 43:25Angela Hartnett?

  Thank you, Jessie.

• 43:26Nick Grimshaw?

  I like standing.

• 43:29Angela Hartnett?

  You can do it.

• 43:29Nick Grimshaw?

  Do that, Anne.

• 43:30Angela Hartnett?

  Nice.

• 43:31Nick Grimshaw?

  Maybe we should always stand.

• 43:32Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 43:35Nick Grimshaw?

  Okay, Jessie, it is time for your end of the show question for your chance to win the Waitrose goodie bag.

• 43:40Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 43:41Nick Grimshaw?

  As brought over by Michelin-starred chef Angela Hartnett. And for your chance to take home the goodie bag, all you gotta do is answer this question, Jessie. Okay, in fact, Anne, put your glasses on, put your glasses on, because there's actually two.

• 43:57Angela Hartnett?

  Oh, right.

• 43:57Nick Grimshaw?

  So which one do you think we should ask, because they're both quite spicy? This one?

• 44:02Speaker 03

  Jesus.

• 44:02Nick Grimshaw?

  Or this one?

• 44:03Angela Hartnett?

  Probably that one, I reckon.

• 44:05Nick Grimshaw?

  I think that one. Okay, that felt evil. But it's fine.

• 44:10Angela Hartnett?

  It's fine.

• 44:10Nick Grimshaw?

  Jessie, for your chance to win the Waitrose goodie bag, who do you?

• 44:14Speaker 03

  Why am I nervous?

• 44:15Nick Grimshaw?

  Well, it's a hard is in question. Do you think anyone on Top Jaw had their answers written by someone else?

• 44:26Nick Grimshaw?

  Do you think they did?

• 44:27Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 44:27Nick Grimshaw?

  Yes.

• 44:28Angela Hartnett?

  Boo.

• 44:29Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 44:29Nick Grimshaw?

  Yes?

• 44:30Speaker 03

  And by the way, not just one.

• 44:33Nick Grimshaw?

  No.

• 44:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, like a few.

• 44:35Nick Grimshaw?

  And how can you tell?

• 44:38Speaker 03

  With one particular guest, they were being shouted from.

• 44:45Nick Grimshaw?

  That's the clue.

• 44:46Angela Hartnett?

  That's quite a big clue, yeah.

• 44:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, my sparring senses.

• 44:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:53Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 44:54Nick Grimshaw?

  And have you ever disclosed who that person was?

• 44:56Speaker 03

  Listen, I think it's quite difficult for Idris Elba to go out.

• 45:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, Idris Elba.

• 45:05Speaker 03

  There was, there were, there were some answers that were like, were very much his and maybe he had a helping hand on a few.

• 45:11Angela Hartnett?

  On a few others, yeah.

• 45:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, great answers.

• 45:14Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 45:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:15Nick Grimshaw?

  Maybe he's too famous to eat.

• 45:16Angela Hartnett?

  I'll say it's Idris Elba, who cares?

• 45:18Speaker 03

  Who cares?

• 45:19Angela Hartnett?

  Who cares?

• 45:20Nick Grimshaw?

  Whatever.

• 45:21Angela Hartnett?

  Idris Elba, he can do anything.

• 45:23Speaker 03

  His aura is just off the scale.

• 45:25Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 45:25Speaker 03

  Like when he walks, I was like in a dark room and he then walked in, there's light and I was just like, he's all dressed in black.

• 45:31Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah.

• 45:32Speaker 03

  You are just all cool.

• 45:34Angela Hartnett?

  Yeah. He was, I told you that, he came to Merchant's Tavern once when Neil and I were cooking there and I was like, oh my God. And he came up to the pass, like to talk to me and Neil, because he'd been booked in by Coiney, John Coiney. And he goes, John Coiney came to sort of say hello to you, tell me to come and say hello and I just was like, hi.

• 45:53Angela Hartnett?

  And Neil was like, hello, I'm her boyfriend.

• 45:57Angela Hartnett?

  I said, Neil, I love you, but this is Idris Elba.

• 46:02Nick Grimshaw?

  And he's like, chef, like, I'm her boyfriend.

• 46:05Angela Hartnett?

  And his Scottish accent.

• 46:06Nick Grimshaw?

  I'm her boyfriend.

• 46:07Speaker 03

  What was the other question?

• 46:08Nick Grimshaw?

  The other one, do you want that one as well? You'd have to answer it. Uh, the worst Michelin course you've ever eaten?

• 46:13Speaker 03

  Oh my goodness.

• 46:14Nick Grimshaw?

  You had to answer, but we.

• 46:15Speaker 03

  I know, but that's quite a fun question.

• 46:17Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah, quite fun. Yeah, have you ever had one where you were like, mm, don't know about this?

• 46:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:21Nick Grimshaw?

  Yeah?

• 46:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:22Angela Hartnett?

  I've had one.

• 46:23Nick Grimshaw?

  Oh, let's all say it.

• 46:24Angela Hartnett?

  It was a slow cooked egg.

• 46:26Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 46:27Angela Hartnett?

  Which I hate anyway. I like an egg to just be cooked, I don't like this 24 hour egg. And it had this foam on top.

• 46:34Nick Grimshaw?

  Hmm.

• 46:35Angela Hartnett?

  With this spice, like curry spice foam on top. And I just thought, I can't believe they sent this out as an extra course for me. It was too much.

• 46:44Nick Grimshaw?

  Foamy, curried egg.

• 46:46Speaker 03

  I had this, um, this dish and it was a, it was a steak dish and the shepherd said, I am such a good saucier. And I'm always like, I don't like that you're telling me you're such a good saucier.

• 47:00Nick Grimshaw?

  It's now the expectations.

• 47:01Speaker 03

  Well, and just also like, why would you be saying you're such a great saucier? A great saucier would not say he's a great saucier. Um, and this sauce was just, and hey, we know I love marmite. Marmite, honey on toast, perfect. The sauce was marmite.

• 47:15Angela Hartnett?

  Wow.

• 47:16Speaker 03

  He was, he had put, he'd made like this really yeasty, thick, dead sauce.

• 47:20Angela Hartnett?

  Really reduced, yeah.

• 47:21Speaker 03

  So reduced that it was like not even sauce in it, like you done lot, yeah. And he just pasted it all on and just ruined this beautiful bit of beef.

• 47:29Nick Grimshaw?

  And also marmite, you want a little, little smushy bits, right? You don't need a full portion.

• 47:34Speaker 03

  Also, you'd never cook a steak and go, marmite?

• 47:37Nick Grimshaw?

  Never.

• 47:38Angela Hartnett?

  No.

• 47:38Nick Grimshaw?

  Never. Never, no. Well, thank you for sharing.

• 47:43Speaker 03

  That's okay, so this is mine.

• 47:44Nick Grimshaw?

  The goodie bag is yours, Jessie. Oh, boy, Jessie. Honest, honest. Jessie, thank you for coming.

• 47:53Angela Hartnett?

  Thank you, thanks for having us.

• 47:55Speaker 03

  The guests you have on the show are incredible, so it feels very imposter syndrome.

• 47:58Nick Grimshaw?

  No.

• 47:59Speaker 03

  To be honest, thank you very much.

• 48:01Angela Hartnett?

  Pleasure, it's wonderful.

• 48:02Nick Grimshaw?

  Thank you for the food. One applause, Jessie Burgess, everybody. We've been to the new series.

• 48:08Speaker 03

  Thank you, guys.

• 48:08Nick Grimshaw?

  Thank you, Jessie.

• 48:11Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 48:14Nick Grimshaw?

  If that episode has left you wanting more, find us on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube, just search Dish.

• 48:21Angela Hartnett?

  If you want to make any of the meals I cook on Dish, head to waitrose.com/dishrecipes for all the ingredients and the recipes.

• 48:30Nick Grimshaw?

  Email your questions, thoughts and suggestions to [email protected].

• 48:36Angela Hartnett?

  Dish from Waitrose is a Cold Glass production. Waitrose, the home of food lovers.