Indigenous knowledge systems and Irish Mythology with Tyson Yunkaporta

Tyson Yunkaporta is an Academic is an Author and Aboriginal indigenous thinker. His revolutionary book Sand Talk deals with indigenous systems of knowledge and how they can be applied to the world Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:07Blindboy Boatclub?

  Tend to the veranda, you henpecked Brenda's. Welcome to the Blind Boy Podcast. If this is your first podcast, consider going back to an earlier episode. And if you're a regular listener, you know the crack. I want to begin with thanking all the podcast listeners down in Australia and New Zealand for getting tickets to my tour in April 27. I only announced it last week, and already the Sydney Opera House is nearly half sold, which is mad. And I should have booked more fucking dates, but these things are very difficult to predict. And again, if you'd have said to me a couple of months ago, you need to book a bigger Australia and New Zealand tour,

• 1:52Blindboy Boatclub?

  I'd have said, no, that'd be ridiculous. Why would I do that? But anyway, thank you so much. I really wasn't expecting half the tickets to be gone in a week. So this week's podcast is... It's gonna be a little thank you. I'm gonna be releasing an episode that I had, sitting in the vaults for more than a year. It's a chat I had with an incredibly fascinating person called Tyson Yunkaporta. And Tyson is an academic and a writer. He's an Indigenous Australian, an Aboriginal person, who, whose work centres around Indigenous knowledge systems.

• 2:36Blindboy Boatclub?

  The Aboriginal people of Australia have an unbroken oral culture. There are stories that describe geological shifts, stories that might describe an island that you could once walk to on foot. But that was so long ago that the sea levels have risen since, and that pathway doesn't exist anymore. And in Ireland, we look to, we look to Aboriginal oral storytelling to try and understand how we would have told our Indigenous mythology before writing arrived. So the person who put me in contact with, with Tyson was Mancon Megan,

• 3:20Blindboy Boatclub?

  the dearly departed Mancon Megan, who was a good friend of mine, who died earlier this year. And Mancon did a lot of work with Indigenous Australian people, sharing stories and spending time out in the bush. And I think Mancon is the reason that I have Indigenous Australian listeners, because he used to tell them. He told me he used to recommend my podcast wherever he went around the world. And one of the people who he spoke about me to was Tyson Yunkaporta. And Mancon said to me, if you go to fucking Australia, you have to chat with my friend Tyson. You have to have a chat together, because the two of ye would have mad crack. And he was right.

• 4:04Blindboy Boatclub?

  And it was Mancon who set up this talk between the two of us. And this chat took place, or this yarn. As Tyson would call it. This took place in, I think it was fucking 2024, if not 2024 early. When the fuck was I in Australia? April 2025. And this was in the Palais Theatre. And Tyson has a book as well called Sand Talk. How Indigenous thinking can save the world. And I strongly recommend that you get it because it's fascinating. It explores concepts in Aboriginal culture such as the dream time and songlines,

• 4:45Blindboy Boatclub?

  which they're hard to, difficult to understand with the limitations of the English language and a culture based around linear time. And I tried to access these ideas through, through Irish mythology, through the other world. So me and Tyson had this chat about the similarities between Irish myth and Indigenous Australian myth. And I think you're gonna love it. And this is, it's a special gift to my listeners in Australia and New Zealand. But if you're not from fucking Australia and New Zealand, you're still gonna enjoy it.

• 5:26Blindboy Boatclub?

  And just a little disclaimer too, because me and Tyson speak about colonization, the land that we now call Australia was colonized by the British. So we have a crack off the Brits quite a bit. And if you are a person living on the island known as Britain or identify as British, when you hear me saying the Brits, the Brits, the Brits, the Brits, and this is any time I'm talking about the Brits, I'm never speaking about people. I'm never speaking about the people of Britain, especially the working class people of Britain. When I say the Brits, what I'm referring to is British colonization, the system of

• 6:10Blindboy Boatclub?

  power, the violent imperial capitalism that justified its expansion using racism. This is now being done by the Yanks, the imperial empire of America. So just know that if you hear me talking about the Brits, the Brits, the Brits, talking about a colonial system of power, not as a sweeping statement about the individual human beings on the island of Britain.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  I got country money.

• 6:40Speaker 03

  What's the crack?

• 6:42Speaker 02

  Oh, all the crack.

• 6:44Speaker 03

  Could you bring your mic a little bit closer?

• 6:47Speaker 02

  Too much, too much crack.

• 6:48Speaker 03

  Um, our mutual friend Mancon put us together. Mancon Megan. And Mancon told me, if I come here, that I must speak to you. He said that we think about things the exact same way.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, but, but we all do. Like, people who know the law, and you've got Irish law keepers, and you're into the law there, of your country, and, you know, and so we've done that since the first fleet. Here, Irish and Aboriginal people, we've been in good, good relation. Yeah, so we, we just doing what we always do, yeah. Australian rules football. Irishmen and Aboriginal people invented that shit.

• 7:32Speaker 03

  I didn't know that.

• 7:33Speaker 02

  Everything, everything you see that's... Australia's got like, less culture than a cup of yogurt, you know? But, um, but what there is, that is like an Australian identity, like Aussie, any of the good stuff, that's we, that's what we did. We did that shit in diplomatic relations.

• 7:54Speaker 03

  Um...

• 7:57Speaker 02

  And we say deadly, we both say deadly.

• 7:59Speaker 03

  Yeah. Deadly, like, and it means the same thing. You say deadly and we say deadly. I could have sworn I heard you say fecking.

• 8:08Speaker 02

  Well, it's just, you know, you kind of pick, pick up the language. Go along.

• 8:15Speaker 03

  So, I'm coming at this, I'm very curious about Aboriginal, I don't know what to call them, belief systems, I'm very curious, but I know fuck all, and also, I just didn't want to go reading, like, I tried reading about the Dreamtime, and then, it's like, some English fellow's writing about us, and I just felt, no, I'm not gonna read a brace, talking about, in the same way that's, Jesus Christ, listen, I've read British people talking about Irish mythology, and it's like, will you sit down and be quiet?

• 8:49Speaker 02

  Mm, mm.

• 8:50Speaker 03

  No, they don't get it, like...

• 8:52Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 8:54Speaker 02

  Ah, yeah.

• 8:55Speaker 03

  Like even.

• 8:56Speaker 02

  They they know more about Irish hair, like, you know, they they tease you about your hair.

• 9:02Speaker 03

  They do, they tease us about our hair and the way that we say thirty-three in a turd.

• 9:10Speaker 03

  What what what is the dream? I know, you can't resist that. It is pretty funny. Um, it's like when I was down in fucking, I was down in fucking New Zealand, like, and I couldn't bring up the video game Red Dead Redemption, in case they said, Red Dead Redemption.

• 9:26Speaker 03

  Boss.

• 9:29Speaker 03

  What what is the dream time? What is the dream time?

• 9:32Speaker 02

  It's the same everywhere. Yeah, and anybody who's still got that, you know, that that culture of the land and the law, you know, we're all in that same same dreaming, you know, um, everything, everything is just those flows, those sacred flows in the land, and you follow that law. And, you know, that that's it. And it's just, um, it's what it's what goes through you, everything in what they call dreaming. Now, it's like, uh, everything that's ever been or ever will be in creation um, exists there and has always existed there, timeless, uh, in the forms, uh, their potentialities. You know, they wait to be born through, and sometimes they go back down like dinosaurs and shit.

• 10:16Speaker 03

  The nonlinear time, is it a way of looking at time by by, as we? So in Irish, what we have is is what we'd, the other world, we call it, which is, so pre-Christianity, because I think Christianity is what gave us linear time, right? So pre-Christianity,

• 10:38Speaker 03

  we had the other world, which was a state that could be shimmered in and out of. It wasn't the past, it wasn't the future. It was a place of great abundance.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  All right.

• 10:50Speaker 03

  Where.

• 10:50Speaker 02

  That's in Titanic, that's when the mother is like, uh, about to drown with her kids and she's trying to put them to sleep and. And they all went off to the land of Tirne.

• 10:59Speaker 03

  Oh, fuck, yeah. Yeah, it is, it's Tirne and O, but that's, we wouldn't go caught in a Tirne and O, that's that's more, yeah, the Yanks did other shit with. Um.

• 11:10Speaker 02

  She was, she was, um, you know, in Terminator two?

• 11:17Speaker 02

  John, uh, Thing, you know, the JC.

• 11:19Speaker 03

  She was, wasn't she?

• 11:20Speaker 02

  She was the stepmother, no, the

• 11:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:22Speaker 02

  foster, foster parent mother. I, I seen her and I went, that's, that's a Gammon accent. That's another thing we say Gammon, yeah.

• 11:30Speaker 03

  You say Gammon, yeah.

• 11:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:32Speaker 03

  Wh- when you say Gammon, does that mean, cause what we say is not Gammon, right? But we say Gammy.

• 11:38Speaker 02

  Gammy, ah.

• 11:39Speaker 03

  So, if, if our accent was shit, I'd say, that's a Gammy accent. That accent is Gammy.

• 11:42Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 11:43Speaker 03

  It's probably the same thing.

• 11:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's it. Anyway, you were saying something? I got, it's my ADHD, it's just, there's movies going in my head all the time. And my son, my son's autistic and he's non-verbal, but he, he speaks in like movie quotes.

• 12:01Speaker 03

  Really?

• 12:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, which is really cool.

• 12:03Speaker 03

  Are you able to, like?

• 12:06Speaker 02

  Oh, he does like the GPS. So when we get home, he says, he'll walk through the gate and say, um, you know what they say at the end of the GPS? I can't remember. You know, you have reached your destination. Route guidance is finished.

• 12:22Speaker 03

  Does he say that?

• 12:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:25Speaker 03

  Um, does he have like a pattern recognition thing going on? When he makes the movie quotes, are you trying to figure out the, the patterns that he's, he's making?

• 12:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, cause sometimes it's just a loop. He'd just go around, cause he needs to, you know? Um, and, but sometimes he, you know, if he says, we're gonna need a bigger boat, then you know something's gonna happen. You know? Yeah. Anyway, it's probably nothing to do with his autism. He probably just got that from me.

• 12:58Speaker 03

  Um, I got a dose of the autism as well.

• 13:03Speaker 02

  No shit, bro.

• 13:08Speaker 03

  Was it the plastic bag that gave away?

• 13:12Speaker 02

  No, it was when I seen you backstage without it, nah.

• 13:17Speaker 02

  It's even worse underneath, nah.

• 13:19Speaker 03

  No, I get to do my finger flicking when the bag isn't on, you see. I don't finger flick on stage. But, um...

• 13:26Speaker 02

  Just hands.

• 13:27Speaker 03

  Here, here's one, right? Is this... Is it difficult to use the English language to understand indigenous concepts?

• 13:36Speaker 02

  Ah, yeah, yeah, it is. So with the time thing, it's, people say, "Oh, Aboriginal time is circular," and it's like, ah, not really.

• 13:44Speaker 03

  Oh, even circular can work.

• 13:46Speaker 02

  Because it's like, most of our languages, we don't have a different word for time and place. It's the same thing. So time and space is one thing.

• 13:57Speaker 03

  Einstein said that as well, didn't he?

• 14:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So, you know, if, like, if we want to say, "What time, you know, you're going to do something," in my language is "aighne," which is just like, what, what place.

• 14:10Speaker 03

  Holy fucking god.

• 14:11Speaker 02

  It's the same, it's the same thing. It's the same ting.

• 14:16Speaker 03

  Do, do you have, um... So we speak Hiberno-English, right? So we speak English and it's informed by the grammatical structure of the Irish language.

• 14:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:29Speaker 03

  So we can say things that... I could say to you, "Are you going to the shop?" You are. I've just asked and answered the same question, but it makes perfect sense.

• 14:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:39Speaker 03

  Or, what I have to really watch myself with is... Like, if you said something that I was fascinated with, I would say to you, "Go away and fuck off."

• 14:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 14:50Speaker 03

  Which, like, if you're not... And that just means, wow, that's really interesting, tell me more.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:56Speaker 03

  But I've just said, "Go away and fuck off."

• 14:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Well, it's that you double up antonyms. It's a thing. There's a, there's, there's, I don't know, there's research about it. I'm a scholar, so boring as shit. But there's plenty of research on that, and we do that, but Asimov throws in, like, negated antonym as well. So it's, um, you know, um... "You go away, don't come here, fuck off." Like, so we'll throw in, like, a, a not one as well. You know, so we'll say it three times.

• 15:28Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 15:28Speaker 02

  We'll say what it is, and then we'll say what it isn't, and then we'll say what it is again, different way.

• 15:35Speaker 03

  Um, another one we have as well is if I was to meet you, I'd say, ah Tyson, it's yourself.

• 15:45Speaker 02

  It's myself.

• 15:47Speaker 03

  Which that confuses a lot of Brits, because they go, I know it's me, what do you mean?

• 15:54Speaker 02

  True God, but you're seeing me and you're seeing all my relations too, and you're acknowledging kin.

• 16:01Speaker 03

  You use the word relational a lot.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, that's it. So let's, myself, so that's like me, but it's, you know, it's not really an I that you have, it's always like a dot, dot, dot, me, dot, dot, dot. Because it's in all that connection. Like if someone refers to me as him, um, they're gonna go like, um, you know, uh, him, uh, belonging to her, or him belonging to them, you know? And so that, yeah, we just keep extending all those pronouns.

• 16:32Speaker 03

  I'm not gonna force you to use our Aboriginal pronouns, by the way.

• 16:35Speaker 02

  Don't fucking panic, you're like weirdos.

• 16:38Speaker 03

  Did you have, um?

• 16:40Speaker 02

  Oh, that's it, I've been fucking forced speechless, freedom of speech isn't cancelled, fucking woke, what, mind virus, cunts, yeah.

• 16:48Speaker 03

  Is it, uh, did I hear you say us too once? Us too is a pronoun?

• 16:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:54Speaker 03

  What's, is that the English, us too?

• 16:58Speaker 02

  Well, us too, what's like slowly gonna happen here, you know? And that's what happened when the first Irishman stepped off on the beach. And, and, and the British are fucking around with their muskets and shit and like, putting people in chains and abducting people and like, yeah, you're walking up and going, hey, how's yourself? Like, or whatever, you know? And, yeah, we recognized each other. So, you know, we started to come into relation. But the, yeah, it's, there's protocols and there's ways of coming into relation, you get that. Because, you know, you were bringing your own language and place and law, um, and you understood us, you know? And you had that same extended kin feeling. And you also understood that diplomatic relations are best achieved and most swiftly, um,

• 17:46Speaker 02

  Threw a bit of good old Royden.

• 17:48Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 17:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. So he was Royden, like good and hard right from the start, you know. Understand, like, so the best way for, like, you know, we're slowly coming in and building and us too here, but it'd be quicker if you just were, um, hooked up with my sister.

• 18:06Speaker 02

  Then I'm just like, hey, you're my brother. English, different way, they'd be like, oh, don't you fucking look at my, oh, that's the northern ones, they weren't, weren't so bad. Yeah, get you, get your filthy heathen eyes away from the ladies.

• 18:25Speaker 03

  The other thing as well is, is the, the Irish that would have been arriving here in the eighteen hundreds, they would not be able to write because those Irish Catholics, the penal laws was happening in Ireland at the time. So those people, they legally, they couldn't practice their religion. They couldn't own property, they couldn't own a horse, they couldn't vote, and they could not write deliberately, they couldn't have access. Those people, they received an education, but in what we called hedge schools. So there were illegal schools that happened in hedges with teachers that were illegal priests.

• 19:04Speaker 03

  And, and they, this would happen around a mass rock, which is a big rock that's often beside what you'd call a pagan holy well, which was a way to enter the other world. But when the penal laws came in and we couldn't practice Catholicism, we returned back to the indigenous religion. So now this mass rock that has a little well beside it, that's where you're doing illegal mass and it's where you have an illegal school as well. And the Irish language was completely illegal. So the Irish that would have come here, they would have been full oral culture, they would have been oral culture and.

• 19:46Speaker 03

  In a strange way, by about the eighteen hundreds, the Irish had become a little bit de-cononized because they weren't allowed to read and write. And we returned to something that was pre-Christian and created a new thing. And I don't know, it's hard to understand what it was like in the eighteen hundreds, but you'd have to imagine that that's definitely assisted in a kinship between Aboriginal people and Irish people. It's just, oh, yeah, oral culture, okay.

• 20:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, that, yeah, completely. And, you know, even, you know, your big worm things you got there, big serpent.

• 20:26Speaker 03

  The paged, yeah.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, we've connected a lot. We got embassy, you know, with Ireland going on here, and we connected a lot through that serpent law. Same one, you know, protecting the waterways and always connected to women, like really strongly.

• 20:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:42Speaker 02

  So it's, you know, this big serpent, you know, when they tried to stab the hag and they got her in the thigh and the big snake come out and ripped everything up and, you know, and all those places and then the wells where they go through, you've got those rituals you do seasonally when the eels come through, because there's that form of that snake in that other world. And that's it, that other, where the snake is, that's the dreaming there. You asked him before, I finally answered. Yeah, it's the same one, yeah. Yeah, I recognize a lot. And we have good embassy here, there's a lot of Irishmen here who have the law. And, you know, we work together, you know, in land management and, you know, we don't

• 21:26Speaker 02

  treat, we don't treat the black thorn and stuff that you got, that's growing feral here, we don't treat that like.

• 21:34Speaker 03

  You're telling me that, man, that's fascinating.

• 21:35Speaker 02

  You know, we like, we asked the Irish, like, well, when, what's the season when the fairies are in there because we don't want to get bit, you know, in the black thorn? And like, you know, when can we cut it? And we cut it together and they show us how to make shalalies and, yeah.

• 21:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, we don't.

• 21:51Speaker 02

  But we, and we work out how we're gonna bring that into a symbiotic relation in the landscape with other species so it becomes naturalized. And plants are easier to do that with than settlers. It's taken a long time, fucking, yeah.

• 22:07Speaker 03

  Like we, white thorn and black thorn at home, they often grow near holy wells. People are fucking terrified of them. And the beautiful thing about the black thorn and the white thorn is not even the Brits fucked with it. Like, the superstition that Irish people had around white thorn, black thorn, and in particular fairy forts. You ever hear of fairy forts? So like, if you don't know, it would have been, like, people didn't remember their history. So, an old wooden castle, pre-Brits. The castle would be up on a mound, but then the castle would rot away and it just left with this strange mound and often stones around it.

• 22:53Speaker 03

  And then hundreds of years later, people would just assume, I don't know what the fuck that is, but it must have been the fairies that put it there. And we call this a fairy fort. And this is why, luckily, like, we've got monuments in Ireland that are five, six thousand years old. Because the superstition and fear of them was so great, that even when the colonizer came in, it's like, Paddy is terrified of that hill, let's just leave it alone. That's it, it's just like, I know what he believes is probably bullshit, but they're terrified of this hill, can we just leave it be? And that's why we still have these things, because the fear was so great. And it was the same with the, like, Jesus, man, you can find, there's a fella called Eddie Lenahan.

• 23:37Speaker 03

  And he's a Shannicky, which means that the community has decided that he is, he preserves old stories. And, like, when Ireland joined the EU and we got all this European money to build roads, like, there was a motorway being built, and right there in the middle of the path was a white thorn fairy tree. And fucking Eddie went to the politicians and the builders and he just said, "You can do it if you want, I can't stop you, but don't." They built a motorway around it, man. They built a motorway around it, and out of sheer fear, you know? I mean, I've even got stories of fucking, a fella moved into a house, he was a buddy of mine.

• 24:22Speaker 03

  And when he moved into the house, now Eddie, Eddie's got this big, long beard. All of a sudden Eddie arrives at his door knocking, going, "There's a tree out front, don't cut that tree." Now, the guy in the house is just going, "I don't know who the fuck this cunt is." So he cuts the tree down and the next day, there's a bull in his garden at an over. And then he banishes the bull and every, every single week a robin crashes into the window and dies. You know what I mean?

• 24:48Speaker 02

  Oh, that's it.

• 24:49Speaker 03

  And it's just, I don't know what's going on, but if, if Eddie Lenihan tells you not to cut a tree.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  Nah, you'd be getting sick now.

• 24:54Speaker 03

  Just, just, just listen to him.

• 24:56Speaker 02

  He'll have a prostate the size of a bagel. He'll be getting up to piss three times in the night. He won't know what's going on, but yeah, they'll get him. Yeah.

• 25:07Speaker 03

  Something that we, we look towards Aboriginal people for is, so like, writing was a good and a bad thing for Ireland. We got writing in the fifth century.

• 25:20Speaker 02

  I think you said r- r- writing.

• 25:22Speaker 03

  Oh, sorry, writing. The written word.

• 25:25Speaker 02

  Back to the dating my sister.

• 25:26Speaker 03

  Um, the fucking written word.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:30Speaker 03

  Like Christianity, when, when people talk about Saint Patrick writes, okay, he bought Christianity. That's not the, the, the important thing that Chris, that, that Patrick brought was the, the technology of writing. And we were able to write down our indigenous stories, but you can't trust them because they had to get, Christ had to get involved. So now we, we, we lost the oral tradition and instead we have this in writing and Christ is stuck in the middle of it. And then when it came time to fight the Brits and get Ireland back, like Mancan's reditists, they also rewrote our mythology, but made it about fighting and masculinity.

• 26:13Speaker 03

  So we've lost, we have our myths, but we don't know if they're true or not. And what we're trying to get back to is to understand, like, we've got fucking huge stories, like the Thaingbokkuilna, which is thousands and thousands and thousands of pages long. And people told this story by using the landscape.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 26:34Speaker 03

  Like, I went to the site of where the thorn happens and it's on one of these big hills. It's called Rathcrown up in Roscommon. And the dude was there and he said, this is how they told the thorn. So you stand on this hill and then you start at that mountain and that river and it takes a full day. But the Druids or the Filla or whatever we called them, they had the skill to remember this giant story just by reading the landscape.

• 27:00Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 27:01Speaker 03

  And we have to guess that. And the way we guess it is by looking at Indigenous Australian people because you've got that unbroken tradition. And we have to assume that we had something a bit like songlines. Do you know what I mean?

• 27:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  Can, can, like, what I just, is that songliney, what I just described there?

• 27:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's it. Um, Monken describes, is that Shannon River, is that it?

• 27:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, he, he describes that as a, like a, a living body of law. You know, that is like, you know, can be sung as you, as you go along it. There's, there's all that story in it and it's, it's along it and that, that's a fucking songline, man. Yeah. This is, it's, it's like not just a us thing, that's a like everybody, human being thing. That's what humans do. And our cognition is spatial, you know? Our memory is spatial, you know? Memory is place. We make maps and we make stories in our head all the time. Um, and that's how we do memory, uh, that, and every human does that, you know?

• 28:13Speaker 02

  People got bad memories now because they're not in place in the same way. You know, making that meaning and that law when they walk through place, you know? But, um, that, that's how we do, you know? That's how we've always done.

• 28:25Speaker 03

  Do you ever feel yourself getting a?

• 28:29Speaker 03

  Like, I, I, I sometimes, I feel myself getting more stupid because I have a phone. Like, I literally, like, I used to be, before the internet, right? My value was, because of the old autism, but people would literally ring me up on the phone and ask for facts. Cause they're like, but that's how it was before the fucking internet, people like me. You know, what's the, what's the capital of fucking Bolivia? I get a phone call and I know the fucking answer and I had great value. Now, I, I, I, I, it's, I don't remember shit anymore because I don't have to, because I've got a box in my pocket called memory, you know what I mean? And, and just regarding the, the Shannon River there.

• 29:14Speaker 03

  So the, the story of the, and this is how I like to connect the things with today, but the story of the Shannon is that at the top of the island is one of these holy wells. And this holy well at the top of Ireland was called Cunnil as well. And we've, we've a strange thing in Ireland with these holy wells where we believe that the knowledge from the other world, the abundance from the other world, it comes up in this well via bubbles. Now, those bubbles, they're also minerals. Like, Ireland is limestone, so you've got really great, it's fucking Baraka. It, that's what it is. If you're going a thousand years ago, if you're hanging about a holy well, you're drinking Baraka.

• 29:59Speaker 03

  You're getting zinc, you're getting all of these metals that your body need from drinking this spring water that tastes a little bit zingy. So the poets used to hang around these wells. The poets would hang around these wells because they believed that by drinking this water, that's where they get the inspiration from the other world. They might have actually just been getting vitamins, you know? But anyway, there's this one well, and there was a poet, and her name was Sinan. And she wanted to be the fucking best poet in Ireland. Her dad was the god of the sea. She wanted to be the best poet in Ireland. But there was rules about how you engage with this well. You can sip from it, you can write poetry around it, you can meditate around it, but you don't go into the well.

• 30:43Speaker 03

  Sinan got greedy, and she goes, fuck that. I'm going to the source of those bubbles. So she dives in and tries to swim down to the bottom of this well to where the bubbles come up. And then the well goes, fuck you. And it throws her body way up into the air and smashes it down, and she dies. And then all the knowledge of the other world flows with her body down Ireland and brings it to the Atlantic. And Shannon becomes the River Shannon, right? And it's this river that flows with all the knowledge of the world. But today, Ireland, because of its low corporate tax rates. We've got all these fucking data centers, man.

• 31:27Speaker 03

  We've got Amazon and Google are coming here to use our free water. But what's a data center? Only all the knowledge in the known world. So they're fucking exploiting our water and using it to hold all the knowledge of the world. But thousands of years ago, our indigenous mythology says it does the same thing.

• 31:43Speaker 02

  Hmm. And, uh... That's, I mean, that's, that's fully recognizable as a dreaming story to me, you know? Someone does the wrong thing, um, they get brutally killed and they turn into a land form. And then that's, that's pretty much it. There's no happy endings. Dreaming story, you see a dreaming story with a happy ending, that's some bullshit. Oh, that's how the kangaroo got his tail. Is it? And that's the end of the story? No, because they were definitely roided in there too, because there's lots and lots of fucking in dreaming stories.

• 32:17Speaker 03

  We got all the writing out of our stories, man.

• 32:19Speaker 02

  Oh, everywhere you walk, it's all Buddhas and Junas and, and Sussu, big one everywhere, like in the land. Everyone, that's where they done it there and like, you know? If the big hero ancestors, they stop to take a shit, that's there too, you know? This is all sacred things. And Ireland, I think most of your waterways are named after female body parts. Um, yeah, that's, that's a good one.

• 32:44Speaker 03

  We, we do, we lost a lot of, we don't have peo- a lot of people taking shits and riding because see the, the Christians got involved. But the Christians got involved, you see, so now there is in the town, something that did get preserved is like a three thousand year old reference to a titwank. Which is, when Cucullin, when Cucullin meets the Queen Ipha, or Maeve I think it is, when Cucullin meets Maeve, he says to her, I would, I would like to lay my sword between your mountains. But then.

• 33:18Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 33:18Speaker 03

  You, there's mountains that are called the Paps of Ipha. So there, there are mountains, it's down in Kerry, you can look at them and, and it's a woman's body. Do you know what I mean? Um, and the other thing too is we have, um, there's a thing called, a monument called Newgrange, and it's a passage tomb, and it's about four or five thousand years old. And what makes Newgrange really special is on the summer si- or the winter solstice, the sun shines on the tw- uh, twenty first of December and perfectly illuminates this ball in the middle. So our ancestors understood, uh, astrology enough that they could build a structure that on the twenty first of December, boom, this, this is illuminated.

• 34:01Speaker 03

  And it's guesswork, but what, what we think people were doing was

• 34:07Speaker 03

  the land was the goddess.

• 34:10Speaker 03

  And the sun is the sperm or the penis, and we were trying to get the land pregnant with the sun on the twenty first, and that was the purpose of that. And they also believed that

• 34:23Speaker 03

  kings in Ireland, pre-Christian kings, they were married to the land goddess.

• 34:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 34:29Speaker 03

  And the job of that king was to get that, get the land pregnant and, and. Saint Patrick writes in his confession, so Saint Patrick's confession from the fifth century, it's the first piece of writing in Ireland ever, and it's Patrick talking about what Ireland was like. And one thing that Patrick mentions is the handshake in ancient Ireland was one man would suck another man's tit. So the king, a man of higher status, if a man of lower status came along, it's just suck my tits. And Patrick mentions this, but when we find bog bodies, so bog bodies are bodies that have been ritualistically killed

• 35:12Speaker 03

  maybe four, five thousand years ago, they all have their nipples chopped off. So they reckon that these bog bodies, they're all definitely wealthy people because some of them have like hair gel in their hair and it comes from Spain. So if you're getting that five thousand years ago, you've got a couple of quid. But the nipples being cut off, what we have to guess is that these kings failed to fuck the land and get it pregnant. So if there was a bit of a famine or a bad crop, it's like, you fucking, you didn't, you didn't ride the land correctly. You didn't get her pregnant, we need another one.

• 35:48Speaker 02

  It's the other way as well, because if you've got kings, then you've got a patriarch, patriarchy there. And we've got matrilineal and patrilineal, like tribes in Australia. Well, this is the clue, this is why we've got a yarn, because this is where we piece things back together, you know. So down south here, it's all matrilineal cultures, you know, and it's the women keep the bloodline and they, they, they speak for things, you know.

• 36:17Speaker 02

  My mum, other way, um, yeah, so the, the patrilineal ones, you know, we're not so much into the bloodlines thing, we'll just bring anyone in, you know. You know, so we've got it, kind of got that advantage, which I don't know, kind of helps with culture and stuff like that. But women preserve things, right? But, but if you're, if you're gonna rule, I mean.

• 36:45Speaker 02

  The land is, I mean, it's woman, you know? Like, women, and everyone, the sacred famine and all that kind of stuff, it's just like, like, you have to be female to, to be like, you know, for the bloodline to follow you, you know? Or for the, you know, to have a patriarchal culture, you have to, you have to become woman, ritually. And so we got a lot of, a lot of trans stuff happening, you know, in, in the old way, rituals. They're the ones that got beaten out of us first.

• 37:19Speaker 03

  Really?

• 37:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, that was the first thing, was like, hang on, this woman, these women over here, they're dancing with these big strap-on wooden dildos, like, that's gotta stop. We'd cut those dildos off. And, you know, um, yeah, and a lot of men, you know, like rites of passage stuff with men, like ritually birthing, like the young men. And we also, we got, um, so in my mob, we, we, us men, we got spirit, we've got wombs. We've got spirit wombs. And, um, and we have spirit children. Because otherwise, we wouldn't be able to be a patrilineal culture, you know? So that's what's happening with those men, I reckon, in the story you're telling,

• 38:03Speaker 02

  is that they, they are actually spiritually nourishing with milk and, and doing a nurturing,

• 38:10Speaker 03

  Beautiful way, look.

• 38:10Speaker 02

  nurturing thing, you know? Um, yeah.

• 38:13Speaker 03

  Cause I can't make sense of the nipple, I can't make sense of it, I can't.

• 38:17Speaker 02

  If somebody went, like, leaned too heavy into the big kalty bollocks side of things and got a bit, you know, like, I don't know, a bit rapey with the land or whatever, then probably you're gonna cut his tits off and bury him in the mud.

• 38:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:39Speaker 03

  We had a kind of a gender fluidity too, which lasted up until the 1930s.

• 38:49Speaker 03

  You ever heard of Poochin? So Poochin is...

• 38:54Speaker 02

  Is that Japanese like?

• 38:57Speaker 03

  No, it's Irish moonshine. So, Ireland, we invented whiskey, right? And the way that we invented whiskey is absolutely fucking gas. So, when we got the ability to write, Rome is collapsing. And now Ireland is learning Latin script and Ireland is preserving everything it can get its hands on. So Ireland is just going to Europe going, "Give me that book, give me that book." No one in Europe can fucking read them, we can read them because we're preserving it. And then the Irish come across Greek translations of old Arabic scripts.

• 39:42Speaker 03

  And the Irish find Greek and Latin translations of Arabic distillation. Now, the Arabs had been distilling flowers for perfumes and for alchemy. But the Irish monks who were making beer start translating this and say, "I wonder, could we do this distillation thing for perfume but with beer?" And then they find whiskey. But when the Irish monks find the whiskey and they eventually make fucking Poochin, they're like, "Holy fuck, what is this? This is so powerful." But then it kind of leaks into our indigenous mythology. And the Poochin maker, they don't know that they're doing science. They have a ritual about how to make this Poochin.

• 40:26Speaker 03

  But they start to believe that. Because when you think of it, like something getting like barley and potatoes and then all of a sudden you get this incredibly strong spirit. To them was like, "This is magic, so we must be stealing this from the other world." Iskha Bha, they called it "The Water of Life." So Poochin makers started to believe that by distilling this spirit, that they're stealing this from the fairy world, from the other world. And infant mortality was really, really high in Ireland. So people were afraid of their kids becoming what's called changelings. Have you heard of changelings?

• 41:03Speaker 02

  Mm, mm, mm.

• 41:04Speaker 03

  So if there was infant mortality was so high that if someone's little baby died, they would just say, that's not my baby that's a changeling. My real baby, the fairies took him and they're away with the fairies. Or if your sibling was mentally ill, that's not my brother, that's not my sister. My real brother and sister is in the woods away with the fairies.

• 41:27Speaker 02

  Mm.

• 41:27Speaker 03

  And what they've left in their place is a changeling. So poochin makers were terrified that their kids were going to be targeted by the fairies, by the other world. Absolutely, because they're stealing this spirit. And that's why, like, when a poochin maker is making poochin, the first thing they'll do is the poochin that comes out, they throw it over their shoulder for the fairies.

• 41:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:48Speaker 03

  But also, that's the bit that'll blind you.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  Mm.

• 41:51Speaker 03

  Do you know? So there's, it's, it's the way of, the science of it is like, don't drink the first bit of poochin.

• 41:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:56Speaker 03

  Because it contains a different type of alcohol that will leave you blind. So they give that one to the fairies. But anyway, poochin makers used to dress their kids in the opposite genders clothes.

• 42:06Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:07Speaker 03

  So if they had a little boy, they'd dress the boy as a girl. If they had a little girl, they'd dress him as a boy. And this used to happen up until the 1930s. And it was their way of confusing the fairies to stop them turning into changelings.

• 42:17Speaker 02

  Mm.

• 42:18Speaker 03

  And you can still see, we have a wonderful resource in Ireland called Dukas, which is our national folklore collection. And there's photographs of little lads on the beach in the 1930s wearing full dresses, you know?

• 42:30Speaker 02

  Mm.

• 42:30Speaker 03

  And this was a normal part of culture, that the gender could be fluid like that.

• 42:34Speaker 02

  Mm. And there's always been power in that. So when, like, when our kids were, traditionally, they're away with the fa- fairies. I mean, that's easy, like, we don't have to, like, kill them or, what did you do with changelings? I don't know.

• 42:48Speaker 03

  Well, some of them were killed, unfortunately, yeah.

• 42:50Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, we'd just, um, like, make a good fire, put lots of green leaves on it, and just smoke the shit out of them.

• 42:57Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. They're, they're coughing and weeping and spit coming out, vomit and they're good after that.

• 43:05Speaker 03

  Was that like a spiritual cleanse?

• 43:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:11Speaker 02

  But the other thing is, like, just the whispers that come through of the role of trans people and like, you know, like gay people, gender fluid people, non-binary, in the old days is that they had like this sacred role, they could do shit because we got men's business and women's business. And like, you know, sometimes this, something happens, it's a problem no one can deal with. And a lot of that is problems with children, you know? And so when a kid would be away with the fairies and like just losing their shit, it's always you get the gay guy to come in and sort them out, you know? There's something they can do that, that just calms children and takes the bad spirit out of

• 43:51Speaker 02

  them, you know? And that there's that role. Um, yeah. There's also like, you know, they were really important for, um, like, young men don't know what to do with them, with them, don't know how to behave with a lady, they need a bit of training, you know? Yeah. So there's also that role. But anyway, yeah, we only know that through accounts of missionaries sort of saying what, what's absolutely unacceptable, we gotta get rid of that shit. Yeah. But, but yeah, there's some good people reviving all that. This is a cultural revival, it's, you know, it's following these trails of breadcrumbs and like cross-referencing stuff and seeing the pattern and, and then you know when something doesn't fit, you

• 44:33Speaker 02

  know? Because everybody's got a little bit, you know? There isn't one person knows it all. And so, you know, we keep coming together and having yarns and, and someone remembers something their grandmother said and then it comes in eventually, you can reclaim the whole culture. And, and you've got to follow it intuitively and through ceremony and you've got to feel it all together. And you know when something doesn't fit because it's not in the pattern, you know, of the law. And then you know that. Wow. Auntie's making shit up, you know? Because sometimes people do that. We got a problem with that, you know?

• 45:06Speaker 03

  Um, I'm gonna call an interval. We've gone 15 minutes over interval because we're having so much crack.

• 45:11Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 45:12Speaker 03

  Um, you can have a little pint and a piss and we'll be back out in about 10 or 15 minutes, all right?

• 45:18Blindboy Boatclub?

  Let's have a little Ocarina pause now for that natural interval. We'll have a little Ocarina pause and you'll hear some adverts for bullshit, all right? I do have a real Ocarina this week. It's high pitched, so hopefully it won't disturb any dogs. I'll play it gently.

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• 46:11Speaker 04

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• 48:18Speaker 05

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• 48:45Speaker 06

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• 49:24Blindboy Boatclub?

  That was the Ocarina Pause. Support for this podcast comes from you, the listener, via the Patreon page, patreon.com/theblindbypodcast.

• 49:35Blindboy Boatclub?

  If this podcast brings you entertainment, mirth, merriment, distraction, whatever the fuck has you listening to this podcast, please consider supporting it directly via the Patreon page. This is my full-time job. It's how I earn a living. It's how I pay all my bills. So if you do listen, all I'm looking for is the price of a pint or a cup of coffee once a month. That's it. And if you can't afford that, don't worry, listen for free. Listen to the podcast for free. Because the person who's paying is paying for you to listen for free. Everybody gets the exact same podcast and I get to earn a living. Upcoming gigs, I'm in Berlin next week for two nights.

• 50:16Blindboy Boatclub?

  I'd say both of them are sold. First one's definitely sold out. Second one, sold out, but I might release a couple of guest list tickets. So keep trying for the second night. But that's Berlin next week, the 19th and 20th of June, Friday and Saturday. Then after that, I'm after Sheffield in July. On the 5th, I'm there in Sheffield at the Crossed Wires Festival, Sheffield City Hall. Going to be speaking to a magnificent guest called Professor Carl Chin, who's a friend of the podcast and I've had him on before. And Carl is, again, a wonderful person, incredibly fascinating, a historian of the English working classes.

• 50:58Blindboy Boatclub?

  And so there you go for all my chat about the Brits. It's not about the Brits. It's not about the, the working class people of Britain. And Carl is fucking fantastic because he has a way of speaking about, about English or British history that isn't nationalistic. A history of the people. So that's going to be in Sheffield on the 5th of July. You don't want to miss that. Me and Carl have fucking great crack. Then on to October, my big tour of England, Scotland and Wales, starting off there in Brighton on the 18th of October, then on to Cardiff, Coventry, Bristol, Guildford, London, the Barbican, that's sold out.

• 51:41Blindboy Boatclub?

  Fucking Pavilion Theatre Glasgow, as good as sold out, Gateshead, only a few tickets left for that, then off to Nottingham, lovely old Nottingham, on the first of November. And my Australia tour, Australian New Zealand tour, April twenty twenty seven, I'll be back there in Melbourne, in Narm, at the Palais, then onto the Sydney Opera House, the powerhouse in Brisbane, and down to Auckland, I might have fucking missed one there today, Borlou, part. April twenty twenty seven, and even though that's fucking ages away, that's a year away, that tour is half sold out already after a week, so do get your tickets if you don't

• 52:23Blindboy Boatclub?

  want to be disappointed because I can't add additional gigs to that tour. And suggest some guests for me, what interesting people do you want me to chat to when I go down there again? You'll get all those tickets at theblindbypodcast.ie or come along to my fucking Instagram, Blind by Boat Club, and I have the, you see those tickets in my, those fucking permanent stories or whatever you call them that you have stuck to the top of your Instagram page. Back to the chat with Tyson Yunkaporta and get your hands on his book, Sand Talk, if you're enjoying this.

• 52:58Speaker 03

  Something I really wanted to do tonight was, I find that white Australian people are very virtue signaling, right, and they get really nervous around Aboriginal people.

• 53:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. You're like, tiptoe a bit.

• 53:10Speaker 03

  When that happens, they tend to be like, very apologetic and not like, having real conversations, instead they're like, can you just tell me I'm not racist, please Tyson? And I want to avoid that by having crack instead.

• 53:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 53:27Speaker 03

  But like, can you tell me about like, the last time you were on the stage?

• 53:31Speaker 02

  Man, well, I didn't feel like hitting you at any stage when we were yawning, but then out the back when you're saying, oh, is it alright what I'm saying, you're not gonna hear about it, I nearly cracked you with my stick over there, but nah, that's frustrating, man, because you know, I have lots of really good friends, you know, some of my best friends, some of my best friends are settlers, and, yeah.

• 53:56Speaker 02

  But that shit gets in the way, you know, they're like, you know, don't come around to my house and keep asking me every five minutes of like, I'll let you know. And if you go too far, I'll give you a good slap, you know, and then we'll punch on for a bit and then we'll be good. Yeah. I did a gig last night and I was like, I don't know, I'm bipolar, so I have episodes. And I ended up like, quite a bit of it was, I ended up doing a workshop, you know, spontaneously about the best way to punch a Nazi. And I was like, yeah. And fucking, can we get an agreement, just the people in this room, if every single

• 54:38Speaker 02

  one of us commit to like punching that next Nazi we see, you know, you watch how, you watch how quick them, they shut their fucking mouth then not just like coming up with this, you know, ah, yes, but you know, you know what, Hitler had some good ideas, like, you know, everybody, no. And that's how they get their foot in the door. And then next minute, we get that story I was telling you, which I just realized it's a different theater. I've been shitting myself. I'm like, I'm not going back to the Palais. They fucking racist there. But it wasn't the Palais, it was the Forum. I just realized. The Forum's like real eyebrow, right? And I'm go there and I, and I got booed off the stage. And people

• 55:21Speaker 02

  were shouting slurs at me I haven't heard since the eighties when I was a kid. You know what I mean? It was just after the referendum. And they all got real brave, you know, and lots of Russian YouTube videos somehow telling them what to say. I mean, they know, they know our slurs. The Russians is weird. Um, yeah, but they were like fucking king at me and like, ah, and that's like, I've still, so I was nervous coming in here. I'm not going back to fucking Palais. And then I sat down, I went, oh no, that was that other place. Yeah. So I'm all good.

• 55:54Speaker 03

  There are sound concerns anyway, though.

• 55:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. But um, it's only for, yeah. Forty percent of them are all right. That was the referendum. They come in sixty forty. Sixty percent racist.

• 56:09Speaker 03

  And what was this referendum? What was the referendum?

• 56:11Speaker 02

  Like whether we could talk.

• 56:16Speaker 02

  I was like, hey, can we, can we talk to people in parliament? It's like, oh, yeah, no, I really wanna do, yeah. But we'd have to change the constitution. Something, somehow in the constitution says blackfellas aren't allowed to talk in parliament.

• 56:34Speaker 03

  Was it, was it about?

• 56:35Speaker 02

  Oh, we gotta vote to change the constitution and like, you know. Yeah, anyway, it was full.

• 56:41Speaker 03

  Fucking hell.

• 56:41Speaker 02

  Massive, massive bullshit.

• 56:43Speaker 03

  It was for Aboriginal people to have a voice in parliament and then you have to change the constitution for that to happen. And then Australia said, fuck off, no thanks.

• 56:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. We're like, we don't wanna like make laws and decisions and shit, we just wanna talk to you.

• 57:00Speaker 02

  You know.

• 57:03Speaker 03

  Potato head cock.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  I just had a flashback.

• 57:08Speaker 03

  I don't know who that is, but that's such a.

• 57:10Speaker 02

  I thought he was heckling me and I thought, oh no, it's, it's happening again, it's happening again.

• 57:17Speaker 03

  I thought that was a slur towards me.

• 57:22Speaker 02

  You fucking potato head.

• 57:27Speaker 03

  I heard you chatting before, which I found very interesting. You were talking about the role of fighting in Aboriginal culture and somehow how that is misinterpreted from the outside looking in.

• 57:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, there's, I think this is everywhere in the world, there's public violence and, and private violence. And public violence, you know, serves a purpose, you know, it sorts shit out. And but it's that behind closed doors shit that's really bad.

• 57:56Speaker 03

  Who was talking about that? The bald French fella, what's his fucking name? The bald French philosopher.

• 58:02Speaker 02

  Kant.

• 58:03Speaker 03

  Foucault.

• 58:04Speaker 02

  Oh, I thought you meant Kant, Kant, which is not.

• 58:07Speaker 03

  That's probably not how he pronounces it. Michel Foucault, Michel Foucault was a big fan of public violence.

• 58:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's important, cause you know, you gotta work that shit out. Uh, but it's rule governed and when everybody's watching, you know, there's, there's rules. Like you're gonna get booed, you're gonna get, yeah, like. There's no hair pulling. You know, you're not gonna pull hair if people are watching, you know? But if you're like, you know, you can't sneak off on your own and fight. Or do violence, you know, behind closed doors or away. It's gotta be in front of everybody. You gotta call them out in the street. Everyone gotta be there, a hundred people, at least. All watching and adjudicating, you know? And both people have to, in the end, walk away with their dignity intact. And so that's the one who've done the wrong thing in the first place, and that's the victim, both.

• 58:58Speaker 02

  Doesn't matter if one's big, one's small, doesn't matter, fair fight. Fair fight, everyone get, you get in there and you do your best and you throw your best punches. Ah, Joe Rogan, man, and all them MMA pricks are like, huh. Every fight, every fight ends up on the ground. Every fight, you've gotta have good ground. Nah, fucking every fight. Nah, someone falls down, like, leave him. Like, don't, I, I, what are you on top of me for? Get off me! Fucking, we're supposed to be fighting, you're lying on me? Jesus Christ, you know? You knock someone down, that's it, you wait until they get up and then you punch on again, like, it's pretty basic rules.

• 59:35Speaker 03

  Was this something which was, was, like, this is part of Aboriginal culture? And now all of a sudden, you've got colonizers with their police saying, that's public fighting, that's wrong.

• 59:46Speaker 02

  But there's a hundred people standing around yelling and, and, you know, a couple of sets of fighters going to it and, oh, it's a fucking riot. It's a riot, you know? Next day, Cairns Post, riot in Arakun, like, yeah. It's not a riot, man, like, we're just sorting some shit out.

• 1:00:03Speaker 03

  Something it reminded me of.

• 1:00:05Speaker 02

  It's a riot when we then go to the police station and start throwing rocks at it. You know, every time, yeah, you wanna turn it like proper violent and ugly, like, come in, you do the siren, flash the lights, see what happens. That's when it kicks off, uh, bad, you know? So, but that happens everywhere. Police arrive, things get nasty.

• 1:00:25Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:00:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is the fascist turn, when, like, the oppressors, like, start to paint themselves as being oppressed by the minorities that they're killing, you know? That's, that's the fascist turn, that's when you know it's getting bad. And that's why I'm saying punch Nazis, yeah.

• 1:00:41Speaker 03

  In Ireland at the moment, we're dealing with, um, what they've done in Ireland, which is so fucking frustrating, right? So, we have immigrants in Ireland. These are very poor people from Afghanistan, from Syria. And Irish racists. Are waving like the thing with Irish nationalism, and this is what I love about Irish nationalism. Our nationalism is never, we are better than you, so we should take over. Our nationalism has always been, can we just please survive? Can we just be ourselves? Can we have our language, our culture? That's what our nationalism is. For the first time, we're seeing people taking our nationalism and they're saying, we're being invaded again.

• 1:01:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:23Speaker 03

  They're equating Syrian and Afghani refugees with the fucking Brits.

• 1:01:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, but then using their own.

• 1:01:31Speaker 03

  The same language.

• 1:01:32Speaker 02

  History of colonization and oppression, like as a kind of get out of jail free.

• 1:01:38Speaker 03

  There's that too, yeah.

• 1:01:39Speaker 02

  You know, when it should be like, as you say, it should be a source of common struggle and a bond, a bond between people. You know, to come together. Um, yeah, but it's, yeah, it's been twisted the other way.

• 1:01:54Speaker 03

  And the thing, we've the benefit of being fucking, within the system of race, we are considered white. Within that construct of privilege, we are considered white, which means when we fucking speak, all those other people that are considered white have to listen. So we've got a lot of power there and eight hundred years of fucking colonization is no crack. And you have to do something positive with it. And the positive thing is that happened to us. Now we've got white privilege. How do we use that voice to stand up for people who do not have that privilege now and are currently being oppressed?

• 1:02:33Speaker 03

  And it fucking works too, because.

• 1:02:36Speaker 02

  Nah, no one's gonna listen to you. You've only got provisional whiteness.

• 1:02:42Speaker 02

  It's like.

• 1:02:43Speaker 03

  That fucking racist cunt, what's his name? Um, I can't remember his name. One of, one of the American race. It's not worth his fucking name. He was a Steve Bannon adjacent, but. Yeah, he, wha- wha- wha- after we spoke about Is- Israel, he said, uh, you've only been white a little while, shut up.

• 1:03:02Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:03:04Speaker 03

  Do you know what I mean?

• 1:03:05Speaker 02

  Ah, yeah.

• 1:03:06Speaker 03

  It's like, he knew his shit, he knew his shit. You've only been white a little while, shut up.

• 1:03:09Speaker 02

  I know my shit, I told you, I told you. Yeah, they're not gonna listen to you.

• 1:03:15Speaker 02

  Especially if you start getting cheeky and like, yeah, I mean, you're there, you get provisional whiteness as long as, you know, as long as you act as foot soldiers, like, and carry out the, you know.

• 1:03:27Speaker 03

  But that's always been the thing with the Irish is.

• 1:03:29Speaker 02

  Be the useful idiots.

• 1:03:30Speaker 03

  There's a brilliant fucking book called How the Irish Became White, and

• 1:03:35Speaker 03

  it's, it's fantastic. It's, it's about when the Irish went to, let's say, New York in the eighteen forties. We, we didn't know what whiteness meant because in Ireland we were under a system of oppression. Then we get to America and, oh, there's this system that if your skin is white, you appear to have access to some type of money and power. And then the Irish people achieved their whiteness through acts of violence towards African American people. You get that the first instance of that would have been, because when Irish people moved to New York first, there was actually quite a lot of solidarity with African American communities. We were in the same communities.

• 1:04:17Speaker 03

  Tap dancing, tap dancing is literally a mixture of African shuffle dancing and Irish dancing, two things together. There's even some African American words like, um, you dig, you dig me, you understand. The Irish for understand is digging, digging to. So we have that early kind of mixing of, of cultures. And then what happens is the thing called the New York draft riots, which was about in the eighteen fifties or early eighteen sixties where.

• 1:04:48Speaker 03

  Irish people are being conscripted to fight in the civil war.

• 1:04:51Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:04:52Speaker 03

  And when the Irish people ask, why are you sending me to fight in the civil war? They say, well, to free the slaves.

• 1:04:59Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:05:00Speaker 03

  And then the Irish people went, oh, I'm gonna hang my black neighbour. So the Irish en masse then committed huge violence against the African American community. But then the posh Brits loved it.

• 1:05:13Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:05:14Speaker 03

  And then the Irish, all of a sudden, oh, you're like us. You don't like those black people either. Okay, Paddy, maybe you can join the club. And then we became the police.

• 1:05:23Speaker 02

  I think you, you, you've, I think there's a page.

• 1:05:26Speaker 03

  Serious, then we became the fucking police.

• 1:05:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, but there's a page torn out of that book somewhere that you're missing because usually there. I know how they did it with the Polish community who weren't regarded as white. When they decided, oh shit, jeez, we don't have very many white people. We need more. So they started conscripting more white people. So they told the Polish that they could be white now. But how they told them is like a whole heap of American white people. Like put on blackface and then went in and raided the Polish neighbourhoods.

• 1:05:59Speaker 03

  Oh, my god.

• 1:06:00Speaker 02

  Rioted and smashed up all their shops and like killed people. And then so it was like, hey, you see these black people attack you, you're gonna come over here with us and be white. You know, there would have been something like that. I can't, it just didn't, you were telling the story and then like, you know, ah, no, we're fucking, yeah, fighting for the civil rights. And then they started hanging them. It's like, hang on, something, you missed a bit there. There would have been some Steve Bannon shit going on there. There always is.

• 1:06:26Speaker 03

  You know, when you were speaking about the yarn earlier, right?

• 1:06:28Speaker 02

  Fucking teal.

• 1:06:29Speaker 03

  When you were speaking about the yarns, right? And you were saying that you get around and you speak and you share stories and then you go, something's missing or that bit's wrong. Is that an example of that right there?

• 1:06:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's it. You can see the pattern, you know, and stories, stories you start painting them, pasting them back together and you go, nah, something's not right there, you know. But that, we can't do that just us two. Like, we flagged that and then we keep coming around, sitting in circles, and you know, more people, you know, consensus happens. You've got to be of one, of one belly, um, which is kind of like being of one mind, except like, uh, your belly's where you do your thinking, feeling, and that's the thing that connects, uh, connects across, you know, with people, you know. Um, yeah, and if you're, if you're really on in something like this, which we're over time, bros. Look, we've gone over, but when you're really, when you're

• 1:07:22Speaker 02

  this on, fuck the clock, because, you know, we start to feel them bellies, more bellies all together.

• 1:07:29Speaker 03

  Did I finally get my answer about Aboriginal time? Is it fuck the clock?

• 1:07:36Speaker 02

  No, it, it just, it helped me coming in here. A, realizing that this was a different from the other racist theatre, and, and B, like, there's just countrymen calling out, like, just some, uh, durr, calling out sounds, let me know they're here. And I was just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm, mm, no, I'm back, I'm back. Yeah. Anyway.

• 1:08:01Speaker 02

  It's that belly going, bros. Anyway, I feel you. I don't know your name, but yeah.

• 1:08:07Speaker 03

  You never read a book called Chaos by Tom O'Neill, did you?

• 1:08:10Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:08:10Speaker 03

  Oh, you'd love it. Just what you were saying there about the, uh, the Polish people and how they dress people up as black people to raid, right?

• 1:08:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:18Speaker 03

  So Chaos by Tom O'Neill, he's this journalist. He spent 20 years looking at the Charles Manson case, right? Now, this is proper journalism. And basically, through all the evidence he picked out, he found a very, very plausible theory that the Manson murders...

• 1:08:36Speaker 03

  It was actually the FBI behind it and Manson was working for the FBI. And they were trying to frame the Black Panthers. That they were, that they were, the Black Panthers at that time were finding solidarity with white working class communities. And then the FBI said, no fucking way, not class solidarity. And then it was like, it went wrong, but they wanted it to appear like the Black Panthers were going to the Hollywood Hills. And killing rich white people. And then it, cause, cause they wrote pig on the door in Sharon Tate's blood. But pig at that time would only have been an African American vernacular word.

• 1:09:10Speaker 02

  Yo, that, that's why they shot Martin Luther King Junior too. He started to enter into a class struggle. So straight away, not if you finish blackie, done.

• 1:09:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. That's why the CIA helped the IRA smuggle guns. Like the IRA used to get a load of guns into Ireland from America, right? And you're kind of going, how the fuck did that happen? And then you find out later the CIA were helping them and it's like, why the fuck would the CIA help the IRA bring guns in? That doesn't make sense. I thought America's friends were Britain. The reason the CIA were helping the IRA get guns was like, the IRA are gonna get guns anyway. It's better us doing it than them going to the fucking Russians and getting a bit of Marxism. Do you know what I mean?

• 1:09:53Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 1:09:54Speaker 03

  Seriously, let's give them N16s, cause they're not AK47s, cause they might get a bit of communism. Anytime a movement shows class solidarity or anytime of a bit of fucking Marxism, then shit's shut down. Like I was talking to Tamei Te, Tamei Te down in, in, in New Zealand, like, and he fucking, well, he got accused of being a terrorist a few years back, you know what I mean? But he started getting hardcore. He was a communist in the sixties, you know? And he told me out about his story of getting arrested by the police and getting, it wasn't nice.

• 1:10:27Speaker 03

  And then he just said afterwards, he's like, I, I, you know, I found that art, art was maybe a better path. And then I asked him, I said, were you trying to farm a Maori IRA? And he goes, no comment.

• 1:10:45Speaker 02

  It's it's just a caste system in the end, you know? And and so you know whiteness is bullshit. It's it's just made up, you know? Like, we still call ourselves blackfellas, although half of us have pale skin, you know, from all the roidin.

• 1:11:02Speaker 03

  I loved it, that specifically roidin, Irish people is the roidin.

• 1:11:05Speaker 02

  But we we could be pale as hell, but um, you know, my stepdaughter, she's like almost see-through, you know? She's Aboriginal, but like, yeah, um, I don't know. It's um, we were still not regarded as white, though, because, so it's not about skin color. You know, you you know, it's like their flag and something else. You know, are you with the program? You know, do you have enough invested in property or the dream of owning property and capital that that you will stick with the fucking program, you know? Okay, you're white. And like, you know, blackie, you can be white too, provisionally, you know? Yeah, that that's how it works.

• 1:11:49Speaker 02

  Same with the Irish, so don't get too comfortable.

• 1:11:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm married to an Irish woman.

• 1:11:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:56Speaker 02

  Married in.

• 1:11:57Speaker 03

  Well, you said her name was Ola something.

• 1:11:59Speaker 02

  She's Aboriginal, like she's a Burgherder woman from central Queensland, but um, her dad's Irish, like full Irish, and so they're from the um, the O'Callaghaners from County Cork.

• 1:12:12Speaker 03

  But you know what the O means, don't you?

• 1:12:14Speaker 02

  No, I've got no idea.

• 1:12:14Speaker 03

  So when you were saying about Aboriginal pronouns there, when you were saying that the pronoun is i i i the the us too is about, it's relational. When when you hear O in an Irish name, that's relational too, it means from.

• 1:12:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:28Speaker 03

  So it's from, it's your little story in your name.

• 1:12:32Speaker 02

  And she is perfectly comfortable with all Irish stuff. That word you said before for a law keeper.

• 1:12:37Speaker 03

  Shanaki.

• 1:12:38Speaker 02

  Shanaki.

• 1:12:39Speaker 03

  Shan is old and ki is story, old story.

• 1:12:41Speaker 02

  Old story. Same, Bowser.

• 1:12:46Speaker 02

  I heard that for the first time in my life last night, that word. And that was from my woman. She said, yeah, she said that, that word. Ah, make sure you talk to him about Shannaki. Yeah. No, Shanna what?

• 1:13:00Speaker 03

  Shannaki, yeah.

• 1:13:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I didn't even have to bring it up. You said it anyway.

• 1:13:04Speaker 03

  But the class thing about a Shannaki is, is no one gets to call themselves a Shannaki. It has to be agreed upon by the community.

• 1:13:11Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 1:13:11Speaker 03

  So there's only like four Shannaki's in Ireland. And if anyone starts calling themselves a Shannaki, like some fucking cunt wrote on my poster, he's a digital Shannaki. And I'm like, get that the fuck off the poster. You don't decide that, you know? The community decides that. And there's only, Eddie Lenahan's a Shannaki.

• 1:13:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I, yeah, I punch Nazis and I punch people who just walk up to me on the street and call me uncle. Yeah. Same way.

• 1:13:36Speaker 03

  Oh, what's uncle?

• 1:13:38Speaker 02

  Ah, down south, it's kind of like, well, you know. I don't know. Up north, uncle just means your uncle. But down here, it means it's a two. Oh, man. Holy shit. All right. I've just been choked out. All right. No, no, I'm not gonna say it. I'm gonna say it. Yeah, down here, like uncle and auntie is a term of respect for elders.

• 1:14:03Speaker 03

  And is it given to you by the community?

• 1:14:06Speaker 02

  Um, oh, yeah. Well, this, this is what I nearly said. I start get choked out. So like, yeah, you be careful when you, how you talk about elders. But, you know, I hear there's like a problem with some self proclaiming people, you know, for things, you know? But, um, but a law keeper doesn't have to be old too, you know? There's, there's plenty of, um, like, ah, there's 19 year old men that I defer to, you know, culturally, because they're, they're the ones that keep the law, you know? And so, yeah, they, I, I give them that same respect. You don't become a Shannaki when you reach a certain age and weight, you know? Yeah.

• 1:14:48Speaker 03

  It's, people just decided. I think it's, you have to have a big, huge beard as well.

• 1:14:54Speaker 02

  Um, all right.

• 1:14:56Speaker 03

  I'm gonna bring up the house lights and I'm gonna pass a microphone around and we can ask questions. And also I have to get a photograph to prove to my mother that, that this many people have come to my gig. Can we bring up the house lights a bit so we can see everybody? Fucking hell.

• 1:15:15Speaker 03

  That's a lot of cunts.

• 1:15:18Speaker 03

  Um, Usher with the microphone. There we go. Does anybody have a question about anything in the whole world? And it can be a question to myself or a question to Tyson.

• 1:15:29Speaker 03

  Yonder.

• 1:15:33Speaker 03

  Just there, yeah.

• 1:15:34Speaker 02

  I got a cold home, let them know it'll be late.

• 1:15:36Speaker 03

  You greedy fucking bastard. I didn't point you out at all, man. It was the person over there. Go on, go for it.

• 1:15:45Speaker 03

  He's thinking of a question now.

• 1:15:46Speaker 07

  It's not on. Oh, it is on. Alright. Um, like, it's kind of an interesting thing, listening to you. Because my family got kicked the fuck out of Ireland during the famines. And when I go back to, I've been back to Ireland.

• 1:16:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:16:02Speaker 07

  Because my surname is Finn.

• 1:16:04Speaker 03

  Finn?

• 1:16:04Speaker 07

  Yeah, and we don't exist anywhere but in Ireland, the Finn surname.

• 1:16:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's one of those names that, yeah, but it's one of those ones we lost with the famine as well. You don't find a lot of Finns.

• 1:16:13Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:16:13Speaker 03

  But go on.

• 1:16:14Speaker 07

  And my family are all from Ballyharness, and I go there, right?

• 1:16:17Speaker 03

  Ballyharness?

• 1:16:18Speaker 07

  Yeah, and I go there, and I go to this shop, it's called Finn's Shoe Shop, and I think, fuck, you know, it's gotta be one of my family. I've been to the cemetery, everyone's dead and they're called Finn. And I'm in there, and he looks at me, and he's got blue eyes and blonde hair. And he's very fair, and he looks at me and he says, oh, I showed him a photo of my dad. And he looks at me and he says, you're fair bog, you were before the Celts, you're really...

• 1:16:44Speaker 03

  A fair bog?

• 1:16:45Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah, he says, and he says...

• 1:16:47Speaker 03

  A fad in Ballyharness called you a fair bog.

• 1:16:50Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:16:51Speaker 03

  So a fair bog is within the mythology, it's the people that existed in Ireland before a race called the Melitians. The fair bog, the fair bog were, in the mythology.

• 1:17:04Speaker 03

  A supernatural race of beings, right? So the fair bulg were there in Ireland. And then, they had magical powers. Then the humans came, the Melissians came from, we reckon, Spain or Africa. And the Melissians came, and then the fair bulg were like, "You're not coming to Ireland, you're not coming to Ireland." But then the Melissians used the power of art and poetry to defeat the fair bulg. But then the fair bulg became the fairies that went into the other world. And the fair bulg became the fairies. And that's why we're scared of fairies. Because the Melissians, the humans conquered this race, banished them to the other world. And then we're afraid that they're gonna jump out at Halloween and get us at all time.

• 1:17:48Speaker 03

  So he's called a new...

• 1:17:50Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:51Speaker 03

  Some type of, uh, pre-fairy demonic being.

• 1:17:55Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:56Speaker 03

  That's a big one, man. Coming over to Australia and you get called a fucking pre... What a mad cunt. He's just... Do you know what that is? That's like when I walk into a shop here and people start telling me about a drop bear. That's... He's just doing some spooky Irish shit to freak you out. "Here's an Aussie here, I'm gonna call him a fucking demon."

• 1:18:16Speaker 07

  Well, the thing is, when I was in Dublin, I was called a fucking plastic paddy. You know, because we're all tourists.

• 1:18:21Speaker 03

  Tell him your point of the fair bulg and see how far that gets you. That's the maddest shit I've ever heard.

• 1:18:29Speaker 07

  Thanks.

• 1:18:29Speaker 03

  That was more of a statement than a question, though, sober. We let you have it because it was mental. And... Any other questions? I wasn't expecting that. I was fucking... Jesus Christ, man. Uh... Yonder there, please, if you wouldn't mind. Have we got only one usher or do we have a superposition of ushers' grace? Got a double usher. If you wouldn't mind, there behind you, there's a... A lady in a white jumper, I believe, with her hand up, waving it. There's hand-waving competition.

• 1:19:04Speaker 03

  Better be a question than not a statement.

• 1:19:07Speaker 06

  Hi, Blind Boy. Um, my name is Nika Lorenorney, which is my Tasmanian average own name.

• 1:19:16Speaker 07

  It's a huge honour to be sitting here, listening to you. Been a long time fan and listener.

• 1:19:23Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:19:24Speaker 07

  You probably can't see what I look like, but...

• 1:19:28Speaker 03

  Oh, my eyes are shit.

• 1:19:30Speaker 07

  That's fine. I have blonde hair, blue eyes, and very white skin. Nevertheless, I grew up in the Tasmanian Aboriginal community of 1990s Tasmania. But I'd love to know what kind of questions you have about this land in particular, Nam?

• 1:19:52Speaker 03

  My question's about being here.

• 1:19:56Speaker 03

  Any Australian representation that I've seen in culture has never been Aboriginal. I grew up watching Heartbreak High.

• 1:20:04Speaker 03

  I mean, that's it. Heartbreak High and the video of your man with his succulent Chinese meal. But that's it. That's fucking it. You know what I mean? So I'm here to speak to people like Tyson, to learn some shit that isn't represented in the media at all.

• 1:20:22Speaker 03

  Is there any Aboriginal stuff in Bluey? Does Bluey dip his toe in any Aboriginal stuff at all? No?

• 1:20:28Speaker 02

  I kinda saw one where they were like scared of some dingoes.

• 1:20:37Speaker 02

  Shitting themselves at night when it's a dingo. Yeah.

• 1:20:41Speaker 03

  I'm surprised, because Bluey is the biggest Australian expert now.

• 1:20:45Speaker 02

  I don't keep up with the latest Bluey.

• 1:20:47Speaker 03

  That's someone who's got their hand up and is like, "I've got a fucking question." Yeah.

• 1:20:52Speaker 06

  Hi there.

• 1:20:53Speaker 03

  How are you?

• 1:20:53Speaker 06

  Thank you both for chatting together.

• 1:20:55Speaker 03

  Standing up too. Okay, great.

• 1:20:56Speaker 06

  Oh, is that, is that normal?

• 1:20:57Speaker 03

  No, you're granted. It's totally normal. Yeah, you can if you want.

• 1:21:01Speaker 06

  I really enjoy you, but this question is for Tyson, sorry.

• 1:21:05Speaker 06

  I work with autistic people. I've had the grace of doing it for eight years. And the puzzle solving every day that you get to do with that echolalia that occurs is my favourite thing in the world. I remember the first time I'd been working with a man for a year and he kept... Saying the compass is broken. And I was told it was absolute hogwash. But what he was talking about is the radio was on the wrong dial. And it was a radio up in the corner. And he wanted to listen to country music. And the moment I figured that, I've been obsessed with the language of this. And I wanted to ask, is there anything in law and dreaming that refers to neurodivergent people, especially people like your son? Who are minimally privileged?

• 1:21:44Speaker 02

  It's.

• 1:21:49Speaker 02

  Fuck, you're gonna be disappointed. Yeah.

• 1:21:54Speaker 02

  It's, um. Yeah, it's pretty politically incorrect. I guess it'll, a lot of things translate that way initially.

• 1:22:01Speaker 06

  It's okay, it's not the forum.

• 1:22:02Speaker 02

  But basically, uh.

• 1:22:05Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, but it might go the other way. And I get like 200 woke people charged on the stage.

• 1:22:11Speaker 03

  I'm autistic, it's fine, you can say what you want.

• 1:22:13Speaker 02

  And that's the other thing. Like, yeah, ask the non-autistic guy that, anyway. So I, I'm going to.

• 1:22:21Speaker 03

  Why are you speaking for me, man?

• 1:22:22Speaker 07

  I'm gonna speak for autism here, all right? I'll, I'll get this one.

• 1:22:26Speaker 03

  Go on.

• 1:22:26Speaker 07

  I'll get the autistic.

• 1:22:27Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, well, it's, I, I, like, I'm just known as, as a, as a want. Okay, want, it, it's, it means deaf. But it also, it's any kind of neurodivergence. It's just want. And you get called a want. And which sounds like pretty shitty, I guess. But because cognition for us is all tied up with, uh, listening and ear. Like any word we've got for thinking, sense-making, understanding, remembering. It all has a word for ear or listen in there somewhere. Um, yeah, because knowing anything is about being a good listener, you know?

• 1:23:09Speaker 02

  Um, the word for a wise person is literally big ear, you know? Um, yeah, so I got no ear. Cause I'm like, literally, I'm hearing impaired and I'm crazy as a shithouse rat, you know? Um, so. It's like a game recognizes game. Yeah, yeah, and, and I don't know, but this is, this is important because it, it, it, it, it signals to everybody what your role is in the community and like how they should interact with you and how they need to, you know, how everybody needs to manage your behavior and your movement, uh, so that you don't damage anything, you know what I mean? And every now and then we come up with some really amazing shit and like that's our sacred

• 1:23:54Speaker 02

  role, I guess. Every now and then you say something and it's just like, whoop, nope, yep, not that boy. So like my little fella, he's, he's been identified as a song man. Like song man's really high status, high knowledge role. I don't get to be a fucking song man. I don't get to be anything.

• 1:24:12Speaker 03

  What's a song man? What does a song man do?

• 1:24:14Speaker 02

  Song man is the one who keeps all the songs.

• 1:24:17Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:24:17Speaker 02

  All right, but this, um, yeah, we, we, we, so we went to the, uh, Bunya Mountains for ceremony and, and there was this, you know, we, there was a song there, uh, in a particular dance we were all doing. Um, anyway, a few weeks later, we're sitting at home and he goes and picks up my clap sticks. It's supposed to be non-verbal and shit, you know, and he just starts. Mimbalad, goonbalad, mimbalambo, hep, hep, mimbalad, goonbalad. Just like, like what? Sing all this and he, he just knows all these things and then, you know, um, and he's heard a couple from back up home and I've, you know, ah, anyway, yeah, the community's like,

• 1:25:01Speaker 02

  oh yeah, he's a song man. Like you gotta bring him up and you gotta sit with, uh, granddad Arnold and, you know, he, he's gonna become, yeah, a song man. It's like, ah.

• 1:25:11Speaker 02

  But I'm the wind. Fuck's sake. Anyway. Wow. Yeah.

• 1:25:23Speaker 03

  So I actually, I made a documentary recently about, I was arguing for the case that, I was looking for the role of neurodivergent people in ancient Irish culture. And I was looking at the Irish monastic system. What was, because the thing is, we had the pagan Druidic structure, then all of a sudden, Christianity comes in. But those, it's the same people, you know? And I reckoned that the 5th century Irish monastic system was perfect for neurodivergent people, because you get to wear the same clothes every fucking day. But seriously, same clothes every single day, complete isolation. Isolation was a huge part, like fuck off onto that island and you don't have to talk to anyone.

• 1:26:08Speaker 03

  And your meals are sorted for you, there's exact routine, you can be mute if you want, and your special interest is just illuminated manuscripts all day long.

• 1:26:19Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:26:20Speaker 03

  So, that's what I was thinking, it's like the neurodivergent people, become a fucking Irish monk, perfect, there it is, sorted.

• 1:26:25Speaker 02

  You just chant and the same shit over and over and you're like, yeah, yeah.

• 1:26:29Speaker 03

  So like...

• 1:26:30Speaker 02

  The Ecclesiastes.

• 1:26:31Speaker 03

  Because that's the, like, my experience in neurodivergence, it, like, now I'm fucking what they call level one, that's what science calls level one, which means that I don't have support needs, you know what I mean? So I can blend in and appear normal, you know what I mean? But, wah!

• 1:26:56Speaker 03

  That's the most autistic shit I've said all night.

• 1:27:02Speaker 03

  Fucking normal, my whole.

• 1:27:07Speaker 03

  Without the bag, I can do a pretty good job of it for about a half an hour.

• 1:27:12Speaker 03

  But like, I don't feel like there's anything wrong with me at all. It's literally, I feel like it's society's problem, you know what I mean? My level of neurodivergence that I'm at, because I'm very cautious that I can't speak for, like, I cannot speak for someone who's non-verbal, like, it's a whole fucking spectrum, and I wanna be so careful about that. But for whatever spectrum I'm on, it's much closer to being gay. And what I mean by that is, no, but seriously, what I mean by that is,

• 1:27:41Speaker 03

  if you, I remember being like eighteen, nineteen, right? You go to college and there's gay people there. And me being autistic, I walk up to the gay person and said, "What's it like being gay?"

• 1:27:52Speaker 03

  And they'd always answer like, "I don't know, I just fancy lads, that's it." And then I'd go, "Ah, come on, it has to be more than that." And then they would say, "Well, I was bullied in school. I used to suppress who I was. Really terror, I'm a bit camp, but I used to change my body language so people wouldn't see this about me. I'm scared to walk home at night, I have to pretend to walk in a more masculine way.

• 1:28:20Speaker 03

  I hated myself for a number of years and then it took a while to accept myself." And then what you start to realise is that, "Oh, you're not talking about being gay. You're describing homophobia. None of this has to do with being fucking gay. You're describing how society and other people have made your life miserable." And that's my experience in neurodivergence. I feel fucking normal as fuck, it's just other people tell me I'm mental all the time. You know, but I'm, if, I'm a very, very happy person. So long as I can keep to myself and have my interests, I'm really, really happy and I love being alive. It's when I'm forced into small talk with strangers all the time and stuff like that, that's when things become difficult, you know what I mean? So, that's it.

• 1:29:03Speaker 03

  We, Carfu, where a pair of Carfu cunts up here, gonna get in trouble.

• 1:29:07Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 1:29:08Speaker 03

  I told the Lord Mayor of Brisbane to go fuck himself.

• 1:29:12Speaker 03

  "Oh, ye know about that, dey?" "Jesus Christ, I didn't know that the building was owned by him. I was in, I was in a building owned by him and I'm there telling him to go fuck himself and saying, 'Free Palestine.'"

• 1:29:24Speaker 03

  And then, "Oh, there was trouble."

• 1:29:29Speaker 03

  We had to get out of prison quickly. But anyway, look, Tyson Yunkaporta, thank you so much for a wonderful, magnificent night. There was so much crack. And thank you, Nam. Thank all ye for coming out and having good crack. Dog bless. Go on, peace.

• 1:29:45Blindboy Boatclub?

  All right. I hope you enjoyed that. I absolutely adored it. I can't wait to get back down there. I'll return next week with a hot take. In the meantime, genuflect to a swan, wink at a worm, bend to a castra. Dog bless.

• 1:30:13Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Laura Adams, host of Money Girl, where I help my listeners make empowered choices. Women are increasingly driving household financial decisions, yet many say they don't feel fully prepared for the choices ahead. When you're making choices for a future decades away, confidence matters. And confidence comes from knowing a promise will be kept. For nearly 160 years, Pacific Life has helped generations protect what matters today and prepare for tomorrow with life insurance and lifetime income solutions. Pacific Life keeps its promises, so you can keep yours.

• 1:30:53Speaker 06

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