Olivia Wilde: Dating, Double Standards & Dealing with Scrutiny

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Olivia Wilde. Olivia opens up about the double standards she has faced in her career and the scrutiny around her dating life, parenting, and fashion choices. Olivia unpacks her new film, The Invite, and discusses the role that sex and intimacy play and the real life experiences she drew upon. She also opens up about motherhood, objectification and how her views on marriage have evolved. Enjoy!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 2:14Alex Cooper?

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• 2:20Speaker 01

  What is up Daddy Gang? It is your founding father Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

• 2:28Alex Cooper?

  Olivia Wilde, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  Hi Daddy.

• 2:32Alex Cooper?

  I am so excited to meet you.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  Likewise.

• 2:36Alex Cooper?

  It's been a long time coming.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:38Alex Cooper?

  I have so much respect for you. You have had such an incredible, impressive career. Started as an actress, still are an actress, then obviously evolved into being a director. And I just feel like you have been at the center of some of the biggest conversations for women and motherhood and ambition and relationships and public everything. Like, you're it, girl. So I'm so excited to talk to you today.

• 3:05Speaker 01

  Ditto, in all the ways.

• 3:07Alex Cooper?

  Last night, let me paint the picture.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, take me through it.

• 3:10Alex Cooper?

  So I get into bed. I get all my favorite pregnancy snacks.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:14Alex Cooper?

  I sit back, relax, put on my heating pad, and I turn on your new film. And I had no idea what to expect because at first I was like, I saw the trailer.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:26Alex Cooper?

  But it's still, it was kind of ambiguous and like, I didn't know what to expect. The invite is so incredible. Screen time zero. I didn't pick up my phone.

• 3:36Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 3:37Alex Cooper?

  Well, because you throw us right into it.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 3:40Alex Cooper?

  And it was so incredible, the way that you explore modern relationships in a very nuanced, psychological way. It was right up my alley. It's amazing. Seriously.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  It's so you. I'm so happy that you watched it and that, I mean, we are both Perel heads. We both love Esther. Esther is all over that shit and was our literal consultant. And we have to talk about that.

• 4:07Alex Cooper?

  Yes, we have to.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  But I'm so happy that, that I can discuss it with you because it deals with so many of the things that you bring up so eloquently with your guests and it's relatable for so many of us going through relationship dramas in every single way.

• 4:22Alex Cooper?

  Well, that was what I found so fascinating was- I didn't know what, when people were telling me like, oh my God, Esther Perel was involved. I'm like, what does that even mean?

• 4:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:31Alex Cooper?

  And she was a consultant on the movie. Every single time I've ever sat down with her, because she's been on the show multiple times, she reframes everything for me. She reframes my life, intimacy, relationships. What initially drew you to her work?

• 4:46Speaker 01

  Well, she was my shrink at one point. Oh, yeah. Years and years and years and years and years ago, I learned about her. I read Made in captivity 20 years ago and it blew my mind. And I was immediately drawn to her and her completely original like perspective on relationships and on individuality within relationships. And it felt like it was smashing this idea apart that we had all, I had been raised with, which was the idea that you kind of needed to be in relationship with someone else as opposed to like, who are you individually within the relationship?

• 5:28Speaker 01

  And all the responsibility one needs to take within a relationship. But I have to tell you, I don't think I understood it 20 years ago. And I spent then 20 years of like going through relationships and then made this movie and suddenly felt like I understood Esther. And, and, okay, so when I read the script, Rashida Jones and Will McCormick had written this script and it was based on a Spanish play that was turned into a movie. And this English language adaptation arrived and I was like, this is so fucking funny and real and it feels like it has Esther vibes. And I asked Rashida, I was like, did you talk to Esther? She's like, well, she's obviously so, she inspired it, but we haven't sat down with her yet. So I was like, let's get her in here.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  We sat down with her. We asked her to come on board as an actual consultant. And then she became our guide through the whole thing. And then Penelope Cruz based her character on Esther. And so you get to kind of almost hang out with Esther through Penelope.

• 6:30Alex Cooper?

  Okay, first of all, the fact that you actually had her as your shrink, that is the biggest flex.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  You imagine.

• 6:35Alex Cooper?

  I know, like I can't, but also like I don't, I wonder how many clients she actually has, but to be one of hers, that's an honor and a privilege and scary.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  And she's tough. You can imagine. She's tough. She would, she, she like holds your feet to the fire.

• 6:50Alex Cooper?

  She does.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  She'll be like bullshit.

• 6:51Alex Cooper?

  I read that you would call her throughout and in the middle of filming, you would literally call her and be like, I need your take on this while you guys were trying to dissect the script.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:01Alex Cooper?

  What is something that she really helped you resolve?

• 7:05Speaker 01

  Hmm. She really helped us resolve how to talk about

• 7:14Speaker 01

  sex and kind of tension in the relationship in a way that allowed everyone in the conflict to be right. So that it didn't become an oversimplified conflict of like, this guy's being an asshole and she's being kind of a bitch and blah, blah, blah. It was like everyone is right because everyone's coming from within their experience. And that's what she sees all the time in her, on her couch. And so she was like, the person never presents with their, the truth. They present with, you know, their interpretation of it, the kind of reflection of the truth. And so, so they don't ever say what they really mean. They're saying this kind of.

• 7:54Alex Cooper?

  How they feel.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 7:55Alex Cooper?

  She's so fucking smart.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  She's so fucking smart. And she just, I'm the same as you. Like she, every time I listen to her or read her work, I am blown open again. And I'm like, oh God, I forgot, of course.

• 8:08Alex Cooper?

  It's so eye opening and it really forces you to look internally of where am I wrong? And it's so much easier to point the blame on your partner.

• 8:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 8:20Alex Cooper?

  And it's way more fun. But then when you're like, oh, I have to do the hard work now. Like, what is this triggering for me? What am I projecting right now?

• 8:28Speaker 01

  Exactly. And, and, and you get, you get to the point, I think in life, when you go through enough relationship drama, where you realize your patterns. And she's so good at analyzing those patterns and saying like, If this keeps happening to you, if you keep facing this, what's actually going on? Why are you, why are you drawn to this kind of thing that is something you clearly want to resolve, but also just like, learn how to be a whole fucking person? Stop being mad at someone for not completing you. Who are you? And, and it takes sometimes a long time to figure that out. Took me a long time to figure that out.

• 9:06Alex Cooper?

  Let's get into it.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  I mean, figuring it out.

• 9:08Alex Cooper?

  We're still figuring it out, Olivia.

• 9:26Alex Cooper?

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• 11:41Alex Cooper?

  I feel like so much of your directorial style is heavily influenced, obviously, by your own life and your experiences and where you've come from. And so I'm excited to get to know you a little bit better today.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  I know, it's unfair. I feel like I know you really well.

• 11:57Alex Cooper?

  I know. Okay, so let's go back. Both of your parents are, in a way, storytellers.

• 12:02Speaker 01

  Yes, they're journalists, yeah.

• 12:04Alex Cooper?

  So what were like dinner conversations like at your house growing up?

• 12:08Speaker 01

  They were great. There was so much curiosity, and that's what I really valued. There were so many questions asked and people were, you know, people, because we always had lots of people in the house. They're very social people. We always had really interesting people around the table, challenging each other. The idea of like discourse and debate was really valued. So having an opinion as a kid was encouraged. It wasn't just like, shut up and agree. It was like, what do you feel? What do you think? Have something to say. And they are really funny people and really great storytellers. And like I showed them this movie, and it's funny because it's actually kind of similar to you.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  Like, like your dad has heard you talk about like gluck gluck.

• 12:57Alex Cooper?

  Olivia?

• 12:58Speaker 01

  Yep, yes, he has. I get that because my dad has had to sit through so many movies where I've been like buck ass naked doing sex scenes, and he's like, oh, wonderful work, darling. And this movie, he had to hear me talking about like DP, pegging. Like, I was like, how's he gonna react? And they loved it. And I was like, I'm so lucky to have parents who have a great sense of Humor and that started really young. They were just laughers.

• 13:25Alex Cooper?

  That's so beautiful because the lack of shame in a household completely disarms then you for the rest of your life. Where you almost like, wait, what's wrong with all of you? Like, why aren't you as open and what like, why wouldn't we talk about this? Because this is what everyone's doing. And that's such like a privilege I've learned in a household I've had. My mom is such a feminist.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:44Alex Cooper?

  And I wanted to ask you about your mom because I know I read something where you talk about your mom in a way that you're like, she's strong, she's fierce, she's an independent woman.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:56Alex Cooper?

  What was it like growing up with a woman and a mother like that at the head of your family?

• 14:02Speaker 01

  It's interesting because she was unlike all the other moms. And when I was young, sometimes I was like, why aren't you a normal mom? Why aren't you always, you know, the one picking me up from school and at home and like making dinner? I was like trying to trad wife my mom and she was not having it. And she let me come to the realization on my own of like, girl, you're going to understand the value of this example as you get older. And all my friends wanted to have my mom. They would come over and sit and just sit at the kitchen table with her and tell her their hopes and dreams. And she took everyone seriously. And that, that is also something I feel like you have from, from what I've observed is like, your mom clearly like, took you seriously as a person was like, go for it.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  And I think that was the greatest example. She also was in a male dominated industry, showing me how to blast through those walls constantly. She worked her ass off. She dealt with so much, I'm sure, judgment for not being.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  She was going to really dangerous places. So my, my mom was, my parents were both work correspondents. So it wasn't like she was just like missing ballet because she was at, you know, a board meeting. She was like in Afghanistan, like it was, she faced a lot of judgment for being a mother who's putting her life on the line for journalism. And it was like, she couldn't fucking win. It was like, you know, you can be a mom who's, who's present and giving a great example to your daughters and your son. My brother's way younger. So it was for a long time, it was me and my sister. But then you get, you know, then you get shit for like not being there for everything. And that is something that any working mother faces and you will too.

• 15:54Alex Cooper?

  And it's about to begin.

• 15:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 15:57Alex Cooper?

  That's fascinating because hearing, right, hearing the experience as a child of you being like, I had so much respect watching my mother navigate all of that. And at the same time, then people being like, oh, my God, she's, she's considered potentially a bad mother.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 16:17Alex Cooper?

  By leaving and going, doing what she loves because she's not staying with her children. And look what it instilled in you, though. It's like to each their own, but the judgment placed on a working mom is, it's unlike anything you've ever seen, right?

• 16:33Speaker 01

  It's crippling. It's so hard. And the only thing that heals it is talking about it and like sharing like all things with shame. Once you air it out, then it dissipates and it, it, it, shame dies once you, once you share. But it is, it's hard. It's hard. Like, I think it's one of the reasons that more women don't direct films is because the feeling of saying like, I have to go, I'm going to miss soccer practice. I'm going to miss this adorable Christmas pageant because I'm going to be on set. And I'm not even like speaking truth to power as a journalist like my mom, like she was like making the world better. I'm just like telling funny stories on film.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  And sometimes you're like, oh, man, I, I, it is, it's really hard to, to get over that judgment. But there's a lot of other moms going through it.

• 17:25Alex Cooper?

  Without a doubt.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:26Alex Cooper?

  How do you think your mom, like you mentioned, being in such a male dominated industry? And then you obviously were going to come into one. Like, how do you think she kind of taught you how to hold space for yourself and be comfortable taking up space when it's mainly men leading the rooms?

• 17:44Speaker 01

  God, I think just by example and just by. Kind of eh, not really entertaining insecurity. Like it was like a scene is like, yeah, but you'll get through it. It doesn't matter. Push through that. You'll do it. You want to do it, then you'll do it. And I think that she was always just encouraging a, a sense of hmm, real faith in me that, that made me have a real sense of faith in myself, which is very valuable. I think, yeah, I think she just, she just seemed to demonstrate, maybe it was by demonstrating that the, the, the bullshit was inevitable.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  So you don't get kind of floored by it. You're like, here it is. Heard about this. This is gonna be fine. I'm gonna move through this.

• 18:34Alex Cooper?

  Something that made me think about too with my mom. And when you were like, why can't you be one of the normal moms? I would always say that to my mom, like, why can't you be more oblivious? Like my mom was too on it that I was like, Lori, like pretend you're, you're like the other moms. Like you don't notice these things. And I think at a young age, there is a respect, but there's also in a capacity like you can't truly appreciate it when you're so much younger. And because it does kind of force a light on you to be mature and to grow up and to be in your own at a young age where maybe another kid would be more like, oh, we're just still playing with fairies and all this. And my mother was like intense and she had a lot of opinions and she wanted me to be a very bright, individual woman.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:18Alex Cooper?

  And I can't thank her enough now.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  That was the thing. The only thing she really criticized me for was when she felt like I was assimilating. She was like, what, what is that? Who are you being right now? Is that from something you saw on TV? And I remember being so annoyed by that. And you know, eh, eh, I, I think the most important thing you can do for your kid is just have their back. It's just make them feel like. Even though you might have your have your conflicts, which is healthy. We learn conflict through battling out with our moms. I swear it's like a little training zone.

• 19:52Alex Cooper?

  So true.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  But then you know they have your back. I remember I went to boarding school and I remember my mom coming to visit. And I was in trouble. I was always in trouble, but I was in trouble because I had a a giant poster of Bob Marley on my wall that just had like a five foot joint across like the wall of my room.

• 20:11Alex Cooper?

  They're like, no, Olivia.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're like, she has paraphernalia, like you, she can't have a like drugs on the wall. And my mom came in and looked at it and she goes, well, what's your proof that that's a joint? I think that looks like a cigarette. That's legal. And the woman was like, I think it looks, it's not. It's like, clearly it was like a huge blunt. It was like a Bob Marley like.

• 20:32Alex Cooper?

  Like, let's go. You know what? It's so interesting. I had this conversation the other day with a friend where we were talking about the value that it has when you had a parent who would stick up for you when you were younger and would believe you. Like I, I have friends who are like, oh, my parents were always like, what did you do wrong? And instead to have a parent to be like, I believe her. I'm with her. That changes everything. That's again, another privilege to have parents that are like rallying for you and standing up for you.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  Even if they're in private, they're like, get the fucking joint off your wall, Olivia.

• 21:02Alex Cooper?

  What the fuck are you doing? But to publicly present. Yeah. She's like, rip it down.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:07Alex Cooper?

  That's what I was going to ask you. I feel like people often describe you as someone who is unapologetic about having strong opinions and I really respect that about you, but I can imagine, like you said, when you were younger, there is some getting into trouble and there's people not understanding you. What do you think people didn't or maybe misunderstood about you in like high school era?

• 21:31Speaker 01

  Oh God. Oh, everything. I, I guess also because like in high school, you don't really understand yourself.

• 21:38Alex Cooper?

  Right. We're like, who am I?

• 21:40Speaker 01

  You're like trying on different personalities. But I really felt like. I felt like such an alien and I didn't feel, oh God, I mean, I had my best friends. I always, always formed really strong friendships with girls and they were my like ride or die crew. And that's why when I made book smart, it was all about that, that your first deep love is the platonic love with your best girlfriend because they're your best friend. Because it's the first person who understands you and you feel that may, maybe they understand you more than your parents, more than anybody. So I had, I had individuals who I felt understood me, but as a whole, I, the feeling of being misunderstood has been like a consistent thing

• 22:25Speaker 01

  in my life. And I think that when I was younger, it made me mad and I like bucked against it in every way. And, and I think as you get older, you're a little bit more forgiving of it. It's like a little bit, I don't know. I think, I think the, the, the wisdom you gain is really that you know nothing, right? You're like, oh, I don't know anything. I'm very, oh, I'm much more kind of open and humble and empathetic, like with age every year. It's just like, oh, maybe I'm wrong is actually a great bit of wisdom.

• 23:02Alex Cooper?

  True. And I also think it does make sense when you're younger, you're so malleable that you're, even when your peers are telling you who you are, what you shouldn't be, you do have the question marks in your head because you also are like, I actually don't know who I am. So maybe I am like that. Maybe I am this or that. When you get older, you do start to get more set in stone of like, okay, this is a pattern. I know myself. I'm good like this. I don't like this about myself. And so when you're still misunderstood, you're like, yeah, that's actually kind of right. Or that's kind of right. But you're more, you're set and you're more of a human being. So when you're younger, it's just harder. It's fucking harder.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  You're kind of like rootless when you're younger. You're like, oh, you know, and, and then as your roots get deeper, then, then I guess like to continue with this metaphor of like a tree, when the, when the storm hits you, it's not as destabilizing.

• 23:52Alex Cooper?

  True.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  You're like, okay, but I know my roots and. And you're just getting more and more rooted and that's what really matters. And when you're young, you're just like, ah, it's too easy to push you over.

• 24:02Alex Cooper?

  When you graduated high school, you took a year off, then you never went back to school.

• 24:08Speaker 01

  I'm on a 23 year year off right now.

• 24:11Alex Cooper?

  Perfect. You're like, one day I'm gonna go back. Just kidding. Never. Like, at that point, what did you want for yourself?

• 24:16Speaker 01

  I wanted to act. I really wanted to be an actress. I always wanted to be an actress. And so I, I deferred. I was gonna go to Bard in New York and I, um, instead of going to like, to have like orgies in the waterfall of my liberal arts college in upstate New York, which is all I would have done, I came to LA and I was a casting assistant. And I pounded the pavement going to auditions and I was in the cattle call of pilot season where we all were, looked exactly the same and tried so hard to assimilate like, and then slowly learned to value my

• 24:58Speaker 01

  circularity as we all hopefully do and, and, but it was a, I mean, I gave myself nine months. I was like, if I don't have a job in nine months, I'll go back to school.

• 25:06Alex Cooper?

  Okay. And in the midst of all this, you eloped and got married at 19 years old? I read that and I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Eloped and married.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  So insane.

• 25:16Alex Cooper?

  19. Also, was it at Burning Man?

• 25:18Speaker 01

  It was at Burning Man. I, well, yeah, we had, the decision was made at Burning Man and I believe there was a Burning Man sort of ceremony and then the paperwork was done back in, uh, Los Angeles with a man who I think we found on the internet and like showed up and like, so we signed a paper that's probably invalid. And then I was like, all right. And then immediately was like, wait, what the fuck did I just do? Because I had a pattern already at that point of spontaneous decision making. And I think that is one of the beauties of youth, but I would get myself into a whole bunch of trouble all the time.

• 25:57Alex Cooper?

  Were you looking for marriage?

• 25:59Speaker 01

  No, my God. No. I, I think it was like,

• 26:04Speaker 01

  It it seemed like probably the craziest thing to do and and it was so romantic and insane that I think I was like, yeah, that's a let let me do the most unexpected insane thing.

• 26:18Alex Cooper?

  It's funny because I was coming in here and I was like, this doesn't feel like 19, like very traditional Olivia being like, I'm gonna settle down and build my family. This feels like a little bit of a rebellion of like, fuck, I'm gonna get married.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  My parents were like, oh, my God, like, of course, the rebellion, because I had, because I could have done anything, the way I rebelled at that point was to do this thing that was like really traditional. And then we did not have a very traditional marriage. It was very bohemian. And I am grateful for it because it's it meant that I spent most of my 20s. I mean, I guess we broke up when I was like 25.

• 26:57Alex Cooper?

  How long did it last?

• 27:00Speaker 01

  I guess really like six years, six, seven years. And I, that was my only marriage. I never got married again. I think that being a 25 year old divorcee is a really funny. Imagine dating and you're like, so I'm 25, recently divorced.

• 27:17Alex Cooper?

  Where you're like, I can rent a car.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  Barely.

• 27:20Alex Cooper?

  Barely, but I'm divorced.

• 27:22Speaker 01

  But I'm divorced.

• 27:22Alex Cooper?

  So chic.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  I mean, what a weird, it was so funny.

• 27:26Alex Cooper?

  How did it ultimately end?

• 27:28Speaker 01

  I mean, I think just an awareness of like, whoa, what are we doing? This is nuts. And I just, I I had worked constantly from like 18 to 25. Once I started working, I did not leave set for many, many, many years. I mean, I just worked and worked and worked and then hit like, yeah, 25, I was still working all the time, but I was starting to feel like, wait, wait a minute, what is my life out off set? And who am I really? What do I want to do? And it was not a very tumultuous breakup. It was just like, this is clearly, we have, we have grown up, we're in very different stages of life. And, you

• 28:09Speaker 01

  know, and it's funny now, like, we're friends. I mean, it seems like 100,000 years ago. It's crazy.

• 28:17Alex Cooper?

  That's so young.

• 28:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:18Alex Cooper?

  I also loved it because the invite, your new movie starts and it opens with a Pretty bold Oscar Wilde quote. I literally am like eating my ice cream like, oh, fuck. Like, it just opens. And the quote is about marriage. It says, "One should always be in love, and that is the reason one should never marry."

• 28:40Speaker 01

  And I was like, oh, shit. And if everyone, every, when I put that in there, people are like, oh, it's just, it's, people are gonna think you're just, like, you've lost all faith. And the thing is, like,

• 28:56Speaker 01

  I, I think that quote is both very optimistic and cynical. It's like, the thing that often happens to love in marriage is that we stop actively loving. Like, Esther likes to say to us, "Love is a verb. It is something you have to continue to engage in." And I think the quote is acknowledging that in many cases, marriage becomes the end of that engagement in the process of loving. And it becomes something that involves a lot of entitlement. And that's where it dies.

• 29:26Alex Cooper?

  So, how do you feel about marriage, Olivia?

• 29:29Speaker 01

  I mean, I, I guess that's sort of how I feel. I feel like it's something, I think it is an optimistic thing to do in pessimistic times, you know? Like, when I see people getting married, I'm like, alright, good for you. Give it a go. Like, why not? It, it, I was having this conversation with, you know Terry Real?

• 29:48Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  Oh, you would love Terry Real. He's kind of like the male Esther, although they have very different opinions. But he is a really insightful couples therapist. And we were having this conversation. He did a Q and A in Boston after one screening. And I was like, it's crazy that the, like, 50% of marriages fail. It might be more than that now, I don't even know. And yet, people do it every day. And I was like, if we, if 50% of planes crashed, would we keep getting on flights? Like, does it-

• 30:21Alex Cooper?

  Everyone's like, Olivia, shut up. We don't want to hear this.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's true.

• 30:25Alex Cooper?

  That is a little bit, we like to be like, la, la, la, la.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  It won't be me. But the thing is, like, I actually do think it's a worthwhile institution. I think there's a lot of value in ceremony and ritual. I think making a promise to somebody to continue engaging in love with intention is a beautiful thing. I just think most of the time, once there is, not most, that sounds so bad.

• 30:50Alex Cooper?

  It's okay.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Okay, some of the time, or some, the, the contract leads to this entitlement that stops the active engagement and, and the, also, the institution of marriage has never really been favorable towards women. And I think there is this part of me that's, that's resistant to the idea of, of, of subscribing to that. But at the same time, I'm also like, the most, like, ludicrous romantic in every way. So, you know, I get it.

• 31:25Alex Cooper?

  So you will never get married again?

• 31:27Speaker 01

  I don't know. I mean, knowing me, like, I'll get married, like, I was got married at whatever, 19. I'll probably get married at like, 85.

• 31:34Alex Cooper?

  Fair. Okay, that's cute. That's cute. You're like from Burning Man to 85.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  Exactly. When I'm back at Burning Man at 85, I'll, I'll get married.

• 31:41Alex Cooper?

  No, but I get it. I agree with you. I think for women, historically, it has not been something that is even favorable to the woman, not even a 50/50 situation.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:50Alex Cooper?

  And so I think there is a lot that needs to go into it before you decide. I never thought I wanted to get married. I met Matt and I was like, I literally told him, like, we will never get married. And he was like, okay. And I was like, so just know that we're never getting married. And then I changed my mind, which is also a beautiful thing to do, but I almost needed to know that he didn't care about the piece of paper and he was down to just partner it up with me for the rest of our life.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  Also, you didn't need it, which is why you could enjoy it as a beautiful thing. When I hear girlfriends of mine saying, like, I just want to get married, I'm like, you won't? That's not going to lead to the result you're looking for. Because if you are just, if you're looking for it to complete you, you're not completing that part of yourself that obviously deserves that, that work. And you're looking for it to somehow feel chosen. And I get it, like, society has taught us to look for that from fucking Disney on. Like, we are all encouraged to find this, but- I, I just think that if it was something, I don't know, if, if we could turn it into something

• 32:53Speaker 01

  that felt a little bit more modern in terms of what, what the promises are. And also like, acknowledge that it doesn't mean you're, you're going to stop changing. And I think for a lot of people, it places expectations on you remaining the person you were when you signed said contract. That is such a good point. That's a really great point. Change. We're going to come back to this. Yes. Um, your early career. I would really be upset with myself if I didn't bring this up because younger Alex, there's something that you did, one show. Oh no. That is still my favorite show of all time. What do you think it is that you were in? City OC? Yeah.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  You're like, god damn it. You were Alex. Is it still so crazy that people ask you about this fucking character? Yes. You're like, wait, also for you, that was like, that's old. Like you did, where did you discover it? Like Nick at Night? Oh my. That's like old. It was so old. It was my friend's older sister would watch it and I'm like watching in the corner. Like this is the best show. And I'm living in Pennsylvania at the time. Like the concept of Orange County, a dream. I didn't even understand it. Yeah. And your character. Oh, she was such a badass. I loved her so much. And yes, people, young people today, like a 16 year old, the other day came up to me in a deli and she was like, I just want to say, I love the OC. It's my favorite show. Alex Kelly's my favorite. I was like, what

• 34:20Speaker 01

  the fuck? Where are you finding it? But I think it's, now it's available on streaming and people are finding it. I loved her. I was so, I was so excited to, to be there and, and to be a part of something that I had no idea was such a phenomenon when I joined it, which is very me. I was so completely out of touch. I think I was still living, because the thing I didn't mention about the aforementioned marriage is we, we lived on a school bus in Venice. Oh. I lived.

• 34:51Alex Cooper?

  You're like, just like the Burning Man wedding, Shotgun Wedding, and then boom, we're on the school bus, and then I'm on the OC.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  And then I was on the OC, so I would get like picked up for events from the bus, and they'd be like, what is she? Like, I don't understand. And I would be like, no, no, no, this is my choice. We, I'm a, this is how I like to live. Eventually did move into a, a, a home with walls, but I was so, I didn't watch TV, and then I was on TV. And I was like, hey, this is really fun. I love this, but had no fucking clue the phenomenon on that show was until I was on it. And then I was like, meeting hordes of teenagers and being like, oh shit, this is like a thing. And I joined once it was already a thing. I should have known better. But that character was incredible. And she was this bisexual badass

• 35:38Speaker 01

  who loved live music and ran a business. Like, none of it makes sense. How did she own a business? She's like a minor? None of it makes sense. We can't dig too deep into the logic. But she was great.

• 35:49Alex Cooper?

  She was amazing. And I think, I was thinking about it, I feel like that was like, one of the first times that we actually saw like an openly queer female.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:58Alex Cooper?

  For millennials on television.

• 36:00Speaker 01

  And it was so tame. But by today's standards, we are just like, raw dogging it in heated rivalry. And now, it is nuts to think about the fact that, I remember when Misha and I did The Kiss, and it was like sweeps week, which is when like, that was a big deal, and the ratings would spike. And, and for that show, it was a, it was like an event. It was an event. And it was like the most tame kiss you've ever had.

• 36:30Alex Cooper?

  It's not even like a full make out.

• 36:31Speaker 01

  No, it's like a greeting. It was so, and, and I think that, I think it had a lot to do with the fact that her character had been.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  Kind of created as this like idealized like, like gorgeous ingenue, sweet, pure thing. And the idea of, of queerness at the time was still relegated to like the, the like quirky weirdo, weird kids. And like you had to, and it was not mainstream girls. It was like, it was not that girl. It was never the, the popular, pretty, it was, and that I think the idea that this girl might be figuring out her sexuality, that was what people were really like,

• 37:23Speaker 01

  oh my God. And there were a lot of young people who saw that and started to ask themselves questions and have conversations with their parents. And that's what I hear to this day.

• 37:34Alex Cooper?

  It was incredible.

• 37:35Speaker 01

  Which is amazing.

• 37:35Alex Cooper?

  I love also how you went from one iconic role to another 13 on House. I know. I'm like,

• 37:42Speaker 01

  Listen, I have one skill and one skill only. I, I, that was another show that was big when I joined it. I'm really good at like hopping on board and be like,

• 37:51Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 37:51Speaker 01

  This is fun.

• 37:52Alex Cooper?

  I feel like such a fuck it attitude, like

• 37:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:55Alex Cooper?

  just defiant. And both of those characters were very, very, I don't know, just memorable for you as a character. You really brought them to life. You did a great job.

• 38:08Speaker 01

  I think I aspired to be them. I think that that kind of badass attitude was probably what I, what I wanted. So I got to like cosplay as them.

• 38:17Alex Cooper?

  Okay, quick rapid fire questions about the OCN House.

• 38:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:21Alex Cooper?

  What is one medical term you remember from the House?

• 38:23Speaker 01

  Sinesthesia.

• 38:24Alex Cooper?

  Oh my God. Okay. Okay. Which cast was more intimidating to join?

• 38:29Speaker 01

  The OC. Yeah. Oh boy.

• 38:32Alex Cooper?

  Fair. Wait, why?

• 38:33Speaker 01

  They were just cool kids.

• 38:34Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. And they were, they, they were, they knew how to take it in stride. They, I, I, I was, we would watch them on red carpets and be like, what do we do? How does it work? They were just cool. They, it was like suddenly being, Seated at the table with the most popular kids in the cafeteria and you're like, oh, thanks for letting me sit here, guys.

• 38:59Alex Cooper?

  That's so fair. You were in your late teens and early twenties when you were filming both the shows. Did you have a crush on anyone on either set?

• 39:06Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, I'm sure. Wait, well, oh, God, I mean, how, how could you not have a crush on Hugh Laurie? I just, I, I love him. He was, he was so dreamy and so smart and so warm and taught me so much. And, uh, he's extremely crush worthy.

• 39:25Alex Cooper?

  Good, it's good. Okay, which character did you relate to more, Alex or Thirteen?

• 39:29Speaker 01

  Probably Thirteen because she was more of, um, she, like, Alex was way cooler than me. I was not that. I mean, the, like, I, I, the idea of being someone who, uh, I think that character was like, she like, lived on her own in a beach house and ran a bar and like, knew everything about cool indie music. And Thirteen was like, kind of like, like a little more of a, a nerd who was like, really determined to do her job. And I mean, I think I, I related to her more.

• 40:04Alex Cooper?

  Fair. Okay, better kisser, Misha Barton, Adam Brody.

• 40:10Speaker 01

  Misha was a great kisser. I remember she had really pretty lips. She had the most beautiful, she was-

• 40:17Alex Cooper?

  Perfect. She's perfect.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, her, she has the most extraordinary face.

• 40:23Alex Cooper?

  The two of you on camera together?

• 40:25Speaker 01

  Oh, but I, I did not, I know I had extreme imposter syndrome with that. I was like, but she's such a pretty, pretty doll.

• 40:33Alex Cooper?

  No, you guys were amazing together. Okay, should we bring back Alex's bumpet hairstyle?

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, which ripped from Gwen Stefani.

• 40:40Alex Cooper?

  With the purple streak?

• 40:41Speaker 01

  Yes, with my My Little Pony, Rainbow Brite.

• 40:44Alex Cooper?

  That was psychotic.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:45Alex Cooper?

  Which shows need a reboot? Would you do it, ever?

• 40:49Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, wouldn't that be so fun? Uh, the like, geriatric version of the OC would be really funny.

• 40:56Alex Cooper?

  You're the mom now. Or you're still at the bar.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  Still there. Now it's just like, a little sad. It's like, huh, she's still working in the bar.

• 41:03Alex Cooper?

  We're still waiting. One day, one day.

• 41:22Alex Cooper?

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• 42:05Alex Cooper?

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• 42:50Alex Cooper?

  second you see it. Pandora makes it so easy to give a gift that feels thoughtful and personal and makes every holiday moment even more meaningful and special. Because at the end of the day, the best gifts aren't just about the piece itself, but it's the intention and the story behind them. Say more this holiday season with Pandora. Shop now at pandora.net or visit your closest Pandora store. Not surprisingly, our society, you know, it's a classic where I feel like your looks became a huge topic of conversation in your career. And it seems like your beauty was treated as one of the most important things to talk about.

• 43:33Alex Cooper?

  Do you remember noticing that shift? Or did it always feel like that?

• 43:40Speaker 01

  So funny because it's definitely the same for every woman in this business, right? And I think I really didn't feel like I fit normal beauty standards for most of my life. So there was a, it was a really interesting thing to suddenly feel like I was suddenly hitting those standards. And it was like, wait, did the, the standards must have all just changed because now they fit me. Like I, this is so crazy that this used to exist because now it's like, what in the fuck? But we, when they had the ranked Maxim 100 list hottest

• 44:21Speaker 01

  100 and I was number one. And I remember my publicist called me and said, you, you're number one. Um, it, do you want to accept it? And because you can like, say no, I guess. If you accept it, then, then they'll do this cover shoot and they'll do a piece about it. And I remember being like, I understand that this is the most fucked up thing in the world, but the part of me that felt like the girl who didn't fit in from high school, the girl who never felt like I fit those standards, who felt awkward and wrong in every way. I know that part of me was like, really? Like, you want me? I, I fit it now?

• 45:02Speaker 01

  And I, it took me many years to understand and to unravel that. Um, it, it is a, it's a dangerous thing to suddenly be told like, now you are good and we want you and now your value, you are literally being ranked and your value is entirely dependent on our fickle, subjective definition of beauty. Crazy.

• 45:30Alex Cooper?

  It is so interesting. I guess that, yeah, that must've been the one because I feel like I remember like you got like most beautiful woman in the world, or maybe that was another one you won. It was just a crazy thing. And it was like, the standards changed and you just happened to fit that and, and.

• 45:47Speaker 01

  I wonder if that would have existed if social media had been a thing, if, if, if that would have even been able to, to exist. I don't know. I guess it exists in different ways now. But I just remember being like, it's just so crazy.

• 45:59Alex Cooper?

  When do you think the fixation on your appearance started to impact the way that you viewed yourself? Cause at first you're like, it was kind of great.

• 46:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:08Alex Cooper?

  And then.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, then it's like, it's easier if you never feel like you have it and you don't expect it and you're not trying to maintain it. But once you've been told that you like ding ding ding, you made it. We think you're pretty now. And it's like, oh, great. And then it's like, and how about now? And now, and then inevitably anytime someone uses a superlative to describe you, like you're the hottest. There's gonna be a whole bunch of people who are like, I don't think so. I think you're the ugliest. And then that's the part of you that, that act, that, I mean, that's the thing that the inner part of you actually is gonna, is gonna agree with because you're gonna be like, see?

• 46:50Speaker 01

  I'm not the prettiest. I'm the ugliest and I knew it and they see it and now I have to like, run from that. And I mean, God, I think about actresses in their,

• 47:02Speaker 01

  I mean, it's women. It's not just actresses, but it's just highlighted here that, that the desperation to maintain that and you can't and, and it's just exhausting.

• 47:14Alex Cooper?

  It is because it's all in the hands of the, the eyes of the beholder. So like you said, like the beauty industry and the way that it's so constantly is changing and the standards for women, like the conventionally attractive man has never shifted. It has always been the same standard.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  True.

• 47:33Alex Cooper?

  And for us, it's like, it's either the heroin chic thin or the, like the curvier or this. And it, and it's like, the fact that a body type goes in and out of a fad and it's like a phase. You're like, how is, how is a body type?

• 47:47Speaker 01

  It's blowing my mind.

• 47:48Alex Cooper?

  In a beauty.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  You're so right that for men, it's always been like, uh, it's always been that like, Paul Newman, Steve McQueen, like hot, like there's that kind of vibe. But then for women, at the same time, we went from like Audrey Hepburn, Marilyn Monroe, and then even the difference between like, that like, Like Cindy Crawford, Kate Moss, and then like Gisele, and it's just like, no, now we want boobs. Now we don't want boobs. Now we want eyebrows. We don't want eyebrows. Now we want skinny. No one hates skinny. And you're like, oh, okay. How, I can change. Don't worry. Just give me a minute and it's fucking endless.

• 48:23Alex Cooper?

  I think something you've talked about before, the limitations about being reduced to your appearance. And then there's also the side where you're like, but there is, beauty can be a power. And so you're kind of dancing on this tightrope of like, do you lean in? Do you not lean in? Do you repel it?

• 48:47Speaker 01

  And when are you being objectified? When is it self-objectification that's somehow empowering? Like those, those lines are blurry.

• 48:54Alex Cooper?

  Do you feel like you've ever used your beauty to your advantage?

• 48:56Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. A hundred. I mean, I think that's what, I guess I could have, you know, at 21 or whatever I was when the Maxim thing, I could have been like, I reject, I refuse.

• 49:07Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 49:07Speaker 01

  On a matter of principle, no, thank you. I was like, great. And guess what? I got roles upon roles from that. It led to casting. It's crazy that it put me in the, at least put me in the room to get roles for sure. And I think then you, you have to take responsibility for your own participation in that self-objectification. It's like, I put myself here. You can't be like, why is everyone looking at me? It's like you put.

• 49:37Alex Cooper?

  Right, but here we are.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  Here we are.

• 49:39Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  And, and I think, yeah, that understanding of really keeping an eye on how much you are, are participating. And, and, and understanding you have control over that. You can disengage when you choose. But understand that you are the one putting yourself in it.

• 49:58Alex Cooper?

  Speaking of when you had said, you know, maintaining it, and as women, as we get older, we're like, oh my God, oh my God, I need to stay that same Maxim girl that I was.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  God.

• 50:07Alex Cooper?

  2026.

• 50:08Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 50:09Alex Cooper?

  This year, you go on a red carpet. Olivia.

• 50:13Speaker 01

  I'm so happy you're bringing this up.

• 50:15Alex Cooper?

  Olivia. I feel like I opened my phone that morning and was like,

• 50:19Speaker 01

  jump scare.

• 50:20Alex Cooper?

  No, I'm like, why am I seeing Olivia Wilde all over my page right now?

• 50:24Speaker 01

  An actual dead body. It looks like, did you ever watch, are you too young for Tales From the Crypt?

• 50:31Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 50:32Speaker 01

  You are. Okay. Oh, my God. Somebody out there will know what I mean. There was like a, like a little, a dead sarcophagus man that, oh, I looked like a shrunken, I don't even know how to describe it. It was absolutely insane and I could not believe, I was like, but here's the thing. I was like, oh, you know, I was at a small regional film festival. I was in San Francisco showing the film. So happy. Um, and then, uh, that like, it's a tiny little red carpet. It wasn't much. It was a tiny slip of a carpet, just like basically like a mat. We did the thing and then I saw, saw that picture and I was like, all right, but it probably won't, that probably won't go very far.

• 51:16Speaker 01

  That probably won't. No one's gonna see this.

• 51:19Alex Cooper?

  No one cares about me.

• 51:20Speaker 01

  No one cares about, oh, and then suddenly it was fucking everywhere and I was like, oh my God. Cause all of us have had this situation where like you take a bad picture, your friends, you're all hanging out in bad picture and your friends send photos to like the group chat and you're like, okay, cool. That one, guys, kill it. Kill that one dead. We all agree. Like that one goes nowhere. And imagine if then it was in like a hundred million people's phones and you're like, oh no, but that is not how I actually look. I, I laughed so hard. I mean, the thing that is great about having really good friends is that they are the ones to laugh the hardest.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  Like I guarantee anything that has been a joke that's been made about me, my friends have made it first in a much funnier way because it's, that's the important thing. And yeah, we had to laugh.

• 52:15Alex Cooper?

  I have to say. And I get what you're saying. You're like, okay, it wasn't the best. But having been on carpets myself and prior to engaging in this industry, I didn't understand it. I will see some things of myself and be like, that's not me.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  That's not me.

• 52:30Alex Cooper?

  Nope, that's not what I like. Cause I have a photo from a different angle.

• 52:33Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 52:34Alex Cooper?

  And that's just not, so I actually, I will not, I don't accept that. And so I looked at that photo and I was in no way, people like, we're so worried for her.

• 52:45Speaker 01

  She's dead. She's, she's, she's definitely sick. She's dying. People were diagnosing me with like Graves' disease and I was like, wow, Megyn Kelly did an entire segment about how much I looked dead. I was like, all right, bitch, you'll do anything to not talk about like eliminating the equal rights amendment or like the fucking Voting Rights Act. But I was really like, I was like, this is, this is undeniably hilarious.

• 53:17Alex Cooper?

  It's insane.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  But it's insane. And I, I was in New York, I flew to New York from, from there and I was on, I was hanging out with my brother and we were drinking a bottle of wine and I was like, oh man, did you see this thing? And he was like, no, what? And I was like, look at this thing. And I showed him and he did a full spit take that I, he was like,

• 53:39Speaker 01

  he was like, you look insane. And I was like, people are saying I look dead. He's like, you do. What is happening? And so he took this video of me because he was just laughing at me and I just ended up posting it probably because I had consumed that entire bottle of wine. And I was like, I'm just, it, it was just so funny. And I was like, you have to fucking learn to laugh at all this shit. Cause it's not, it's ridiculous.

• 54:09Alex Cooper?

  Also, I loved it from your brothers, that my brother would do the same thing, being like, explain yourself.

• 54:13Speaker 01

  Explain yourself. Why do you look dead? Why were you exhumed from the ground?

• 54:17Alex Cooper?

  And I'm like, sitting here with you right now and I'm like, you look stunning, gorgeous and you're glowing. And that was not an, but again, the way the internet.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 54:28Alex Cooper?

  It was, everyone had a commentary on the way that you looked that day. It was fucking crazy.

• 54:33Speaker 01

  It is, it is crazy how we seem to want, like I was there promoting my movie, so excited. I'm there as a director, I'm so proud. It's almost like the internet doesn't know how to talk about a woman. It's like there's two levers and they're like, men in your life and body. And they're like, uh, oh, she's speaking. Okay. What's the, uh, boys, boys, men, mm, body, body, men, body. And they're like, you're like, you could also talk about other things. I mean, that one, I'll hand it to them. That picture was so fucking crazy. Like I too would have been like, is she okay?

• 55:09Alex Cooper?

  But you've been in other situations that it's still about your body and you're like, I'm here to promote my work. And they're like, but let's focus on her outfit.

• 55:15Speaker 01

  We can't see that.

• 55:17Alex Cooper?

  Does it feel at all like a betrayal when you know it's mainly women now participating in the conversation?

• 55:26Speaker 01

  I think that

• 55:30Speaker 01

  it's tough because I wish we didn't do that. I, I think about how we do the job of the patriarchy for the men. We really are like, don't worry, we've got it. We'll keep ourselves like shackled in this way. We'll, we'll take care of it for you guys. You go have fun and we will keep each other down. And I think it's, it's a misplaced, probably biological, um, skill tendency. You know, they say like the origin of gossip was actually something, um, in medieval times that was a positive thing.

• 56:13Speaker 01

  It was something that like women have this power of communicating and sharing and talking about, uh, you know, just being able to, to communicate with each other. We are verbal in a way that is like a beautiful gift. It's almost like we've taken this very positive thing and this desire to actually, I don't know. I think at our core, really connect with each other and, and take care of each other. And it's been manipulated to be used as a weapon against us. And I mean, it's, it's fucked up. It's fucked up, but like, you know, it's something that we sometimes just don't even know we're doing. We, it, it, it, we also expect more from women because I think that at our core, we do understand that we are,

• 56:59Speaker 01

  like we, we have high standards for ourselves. And so when we, when we see a woman doing something we don't approve of.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  I like to think that it's us being like, come on, girl, like, you can be better than that. But most of the time, it just feels like it's trying to smash each other's faces in.

• 57:18Alex Cooper?

  I, I agree. It almost feels like this like cyclical cycle of we don't feel good about ourselves because another person was sexist toward us. So then we then don't want the other woman to feel like she's winning because if I can't win, then you can't win. And then we literally just keep going in this loop and the men are like laughing and being like,

• 57:36Speaker 01

  thanks, ladies. Thanks for taking care of that for us. I mean, yes, it's like hurt people, hurt people. I get it. But it is a, it, it is wild. It's crazy when it is women being like really the most cruel. We also know the ways to be, we know the words to use to be the most cruel. Like, we understand the weaponry.

• 57:56Alex Cooper?

  We know. Yeah. That's what I think. It's interesting you talking about, you know, we have these levers and it's like, talk about, you know, boys or talk about the body. And then you have Booksmart and you were, that was 2019.

• 58:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 58:09Alex Cooper?

  And that was your first film that you directed. And I remember you had said you, you stepped into that feeling like you were finally valued for your ideas.

• 58:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:19Alex Cooper?

  And so to go from Maxim 100 and being this smoke show and, and having everyone talk about your looks and you're finally now on a set where it is your brain that is bringing this vision to life.

• 58:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 58:32Alex Cooper?

  What did that moment when you look back like mean for you personally in your career?

• 58:37Speaker 01

  Oh, game changer. I mean, it was like, oh, now I think I can stay in this career and, and stay in it for a longer time and be happy. Cause I think there is this, I imagine it's the same for like athletes, that there is this ticking clock. And it is like, well, it, I better enjoy this because by the time I hit like 35, I'm a geriatric, like I, I, I think that. For actresses, it's crazy that the more experience you have, the less valuable you are. And it shouldn't be that way, but it is. As a director, you are more valuable, the more experience you have. And I loved the idea of like, oh, I've shifted into something that I can grow old in,

• 59:22Speaker 01

  which made me really excited as opposed to being anxious about getting older.

• 59:25Alex Cooper?

  Oh, I love that. I also think that like, it is so much more common for men to take the transition from acting to then going to being a director compared to women. When you were directing the film, did you feel like there was an added pressure though? Because you are this woman and you've gotten out the mic now and everyone's looking at you.

• 59:47Speaker 01

  I think that I felt a pressure that was like, if we pull this off, if I can do this, it will be good for the larger female director community and more of us will get our movies greenlit if this works. So I remember Greta Gerwig had just made Lady Bird and I had watched her make this triumphant transition from acting to directing and, and, and it was no surprise to anybody because she just was that good and that's smart. And I was so aware that without Greta doing Lady Bird, I was not doing Booksmart. Like she walked so I could run and I felt, I still feel that with her. Man, she keeps elevating and it's like, thank you for continuing.

• 1:00:32Speaker 01

  She's like blazing the path and there's women for her, of course, but it allows you to connect with like, okay, I, I want to make this work because I want other women and also other actresses to see this as a possibility to make this pivot.

• 1:00:48Alex Cooper?

  I mean, I love that also, Olivia, of you just being like, oh my God, like thank God to her because giving, again, giving flowers to other women and you not being competitive with Greta, but you being like, fuck yes, Greta. Like, okay, but you keep going, we're all right behind you and we're going to keep following you because whoever is leading in that category for a woman, instead of being like, fuck her, she made it to the top. It's like, holy shit, she basically just allowed. The rope to fall down and now we can all climb up in a more, in a faster capacity.

• 1:01:17Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:01:17Alex Cooper?

  Cause there's a woman sitting up there.

• 1:01:19Speaker 01

  They can know, after Greta Gerwig made over a billion dollars with Barbie, no one can claim that female directed films are not bankable. No one can say, now, obviously, it's also Margot producing and starring in that. That is a game changer. It just diffuses any argument made by any

• 1:01:38Alex Cooper?

  Anything.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  studio shareholder, anybody that like, should we be investing in female films? It's like, we sure as fuck should. That one made a bill.

• 1:01:45Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:46Speaker 01

  And way more.

• 1:01:47Alex Cooper?

  I'm curious about your experience of being behind the camera. Like, what has it taught you about people's willingness to take direction from a woman? Especially a conventionally attractive woman, like maybe if you're directing women or men, like.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  It's so interesting. I feel like being a director is basically being multilingual. You have to be able to speak any language the actor speaks in terms of their emotional language. Also their training. Everyone comes at it from such a different place. You have to be able to like morph into their language. And so you can help them get to where they need to be. And I think that

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  the energy you have as a director and maybe your gender, your appearance, your anything, you, you can sense how that affects that, that, that actor or that, you know, crew member who you're also directing in a different way. You can sense how it affects them. So I think that I've been really lucky, for instance, to have a lot of men working for me in crews, let's say in like camera departments, who are so supportive and, and I'm like, just the most supportive and the, the most encouraging. And I've never had the experience of being like, I have to be more tough because I'm a woman. I have to show them my authority. I've never had that experience. I've heard people talk about that.

• 1:03:14Speaker 01

  In my experience, I've gotten really lucky with people who like, I've never had to like flex to show that I'm like, don't fuck with me. Look how angry I can get. It's not that at all. I think that women are naturally better communicators and leaders. I also have to say like, wait till you see what an even better boss you are once you're a mom.

• 1:03:34Alex Cooper?

  Let's talk about it.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  Because.

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  It is not only so humbling to become a parent, but, but it just teaches you multitasking and the ability to remain calm in high-stress situations. So taking that to a set as a director or into an office of any kind, I think you are just more effective.

• 1:03:57Alex Cooper?

  I couldn't wait to ask you about that because yes, on one hand, I'm so happy that you've had that experience with men because I don't think men are used to taking direction from women. And then what they probably, once they let their guard down and realize to come find out, oh my God, you're way better at communicating, explaining what you want than the other man over there. Like, thank you for being so clear and direct about what you want.

• 1:04:20Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:04:20Alex Cooper?

  And then you add on motherhood.

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:24Alex Cooper?

  And I was reading this quote from you, you were talking about directing and you said, "The greatest demonstration of power is the ability to listen and stay calm when everything is falling apart."

• 1:04:34Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:04:34Alex Cooper?

  And I was like, that sounds like amazing parenting advice as well, Olivia.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:04:39Alex Cooper?

  Talk to me a little bit more about how being a mom has changed you in your career.

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  Oh, oh.

• 1:04:50Speaker 01

  It, it removes any sense of, oh God, like, it, it humbles you in a way that is so helpful because you just understand the second you become a parent, that you know nothing and that every day is a discovery of new skills. And the thing that you thought you learned yesterday doesn't seem true today. And you have to, you have to remain so flexible. And I think that just has affected the way that I approach work. I really do think though, the remaining calm under stress is probably the, the most helpful one because.

• 1:05:31Speaker 01

  As a parent, it becomes immediately clear that you getting stressed out doesn't help anything. And that when your kid is having like a DEFCON one meltdown in the middle of the street, if you were to freak out and scream, nothing is gonna, it will make it worse. And the more stressed out your kid gets, the more calm and in control you have to be.

• 1:05:55Alex Cooper?

  Have you had, though, the comments made about like, oh, well, don't you miss your kids? Like, what? And you're like, but all the men here have kids too.

• 1:06:05Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

• 1:06:07Alex Cooper?

  How do you deal with that?

• 1:06:09Speaker 01

  You know, it's, again, like, I imagine that my mom faced it a lot. And I think that if I know that I'm showing up for my kids in all the important ways, then I feel confident despite any judgment you might subtly feel from, let's say, another parent at school is like, oh, I didn't see you at the potluck. And it's like, no, you didn't, you didn't, because I was at work and I was in charge of 250 people pulling off this impossible thing. So I missed the fucking potluck. I'm sorry. I feel like it's okay because you know what?

• 1:06:50Speaker 01

  I was there for my kid after the potluck, talking them about their day, like engaging with them in the way that actually matters. So I think the only time it would probably get to me is if I actually knew deep down that I wasn't showing up the way I needed to. And then I probably would, that would probably break me because it would feel like it was tapping into something real. But I'm a very present mom, even when I'm not able to be consistently present. Also, like, I'm a co-parent. I share custody and I am really grateful for the opportunity to have this space when

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  I am completely with my kids, completely engaged with them. And they are, you know, the focus in a way that I think that if you...

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  It's it's an interesting thing like once you are sharing custody with someone, it shifts the way you think about parenting.

• 1:08:00Speaker 01

  I really value the opportunity to be completely present with them and then to hand them off to a very capable co-parent who is very present with them when he's with them. And then I have this space, which is permission to then go work my fucking ass off. I mean, my life, I feel like I'm like a superhero, not because of my skills, but because of the switching in between identities. Because I, my version of like going into the phone booth and putting on the the suit is like going to work and being like 100% hardcore, available to work 24/7. But everyone in my life knows that then when I'm with my kids, it's the opposite. And sometimes that's challenging. You have to find the balance, but I actually find this

• 1:08:45Speaker 01

  this um kind of divvying up of of responsibility in a way can allow for really amazing parenting because we are always our best with our kids. They get the best of us.

• 1:08:57Alex Cooper?

  It's so fascinating and I love the way that you talked about that because I I do think there's so many people that understandably, if they are separating or going through a divorce, there understandably is a fear of like, oh, my God, how are we going to make sure the kids are taken care of? And to hear you talk about it, I think to anyone listening that is going through that right now.

• 1:09:15Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:09:16Alex Cooper?

  That's so

• 1:09:18Alex Cooper?

  like such a relief.

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I really want to tell people

• 1:09:22Speaker 01

  you you can be an incredible parent.

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  Even if you are not with them 100% of the time and you're sharing them with their other parent. You, it doesn't mean you won't be as good of a parent. You might even be a better parent.

• 1:09:37Alex Cooper?

  Um, your movie.

• 1:09:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:39Alex Cooper?

  When literally what Penelope Cruz is like so in her ester voice, she's like, you think your kid is happy in this house right now? You think she doesn't feel the anxiety? And the all of the turmoil that's going on between the two of you? She'd probably be happier if you two split up.

• 1:09:58Speaker 01

  And it, you know, it's funny because that still feels like a risky thing to say. It it is something that for some reason still makes people feel uncomfortable and yet so many people are dealing with this and I really do.

• 1:10:12Speaker 01

  I, I think that there's a lot of people who stay in relationships because they feel this obligation. And a lot of the time it has to do with the fact that they feel this extreme shame and guilt for breaking up a family because they assume that that means that the kid will have less love. But that's a choice and you can create a dynamic that allows that kid to have maximum amount of love. I mean, we are great fucking co-parents. These kids are consistently getting the best of us in a way that when we were together was not possible. Because we did not work together, but we work really well as separated co-parents.

• 1:10:52Speaker 01

  And I, so when I talk to people who are just in very unhappy situations and staying in it for the kids. I'm like, you're doing no one any favors.

• 1:11:01Alex Cooper?

  Something that you referenced about, um, you know, when if someone's saying something about you and you're like, oh wait, that does kind of hit close to home. Then it's going to affect you. And I can't help but think about Olivia Wilde as the public persona.

• 1:11:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:11:16Alex Cooper?

  And there is so much that is said about you at all times. And when I was preparing for this interview, I noticed that you had pulled back kind of from the public almost for the past four years. Like you haven't done like long form interviews.

• 1:11:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:29Alex Cooper?

  Since promoting your last movie that you directed. And I wanted to know, like, how did taking that step back feel and was it intentional?

• 1:11:39Speaker 01

  Totally intentional. I feel like, I felt like I needed to get quiet. I needed to hear myself again. I wish there was so much noise. And it was a very unfamiliar thing to me to be thrust into such chaos. It was not my vibe. That was an unfamiliar thing for me. And I was suddenly in a tornado and I needed to excuse myself from the tornado and just go and get quiet and hear myself and, and, and process. Process all of the, the, the pain and the lessons that I could find in it.

• 1:12:21Speaker 01

  I did a shit ton of therapy. I, I took it as an opportunity to rebuild myself at this point in my life. And I think.

• 1:12:34Speaker 01

  There is value to that. There is, you know, it sounds dramatic, but say like, you know, rock bottom is just a place to to jump off from and rock bottom just sounds very dramatic. And I, I think for me, it was like, it did feel like a destruction, but there is beauty in destruction because you can rebuild. And I needed to take a breather and just think like, wait a minute. What have I learned? Who am I? And how can I? How can I accept this, this humbling as a chance to kind of spend the rest of my life at as a person who has grown from this because I have to have grown from it or else it was for nothing.

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  And, and I'm a very different person than I was three years ago. I think a much better version of myself because I have just taken the time to process it.

• 1:13:27Alex Cooper?

  Well, and you went through a lot, like even hearing you say like rock bottom. I'm like, for sure, we can't ever speak for you publicly or like personally, but publicly like

• 1:13:35Speaker 01

  Yo.

• 1:13:36Alex Cooper?

  It felt like fucking rock bottom. Like I remember when Don't Worry Darling came out and you were the most talked about woman in the world, Olivia Wilde. You, and it wasn't just for the, the movie.

• 1:13:49Speaker 01

  Oh, I wish it was about the movie.

• 1:13:51Alex Cooper?

  It was your relationships, your parenting, your looks and, and overall really like your morality as a woman.

• 1:13:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:00Alex Cooper?

  Now that you've had time, like you're saying, like you're a different person. Like when you look back, like what was that time like when the world was just like?

• 1:14:08Speaker 01

  Fucking bananas. It was, it was so strange. The world was also in a weird place because it was COVID. So like, everything was topsy turvy weird. But, but I've never felt more disconnected from the person that people were talking about. Like I was like, what, who are they talking about? Who is that girl? It was, it was, it was also very strange to see complete fiction traded as fact. And I

• 1:14:41Speaker 01

  I, I, it's really funny. I had an assistant at the time who was one of my dear, dear friends. And she was like, man, working for me, working for you has really like ruined the tabloids for me because now I know it's all fake and I used to really love it. And now I'm like, but now I know it's not real because you would, there would be like fake sources, fake stories, fake, because once there's a narrative formed, they are just trying to maintain that narrative and it has nothing to do with the truth anymore. It is just clickbait that they have to maintain and it doesn't matter what really happened at that point.

• 1:15:12Alex Cooper?

  At all. The truth does, if anything, they're looking for the better story.

• 1:15:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's like, and you could be like, wait a minute, but there's, here's this evidence to the contrary. They're like, excuse me, be quiet because that does not fit what we've already decided. And I, I understood that. And, and I will say like, that, I had a really, there was all this public madness, but my private life was very far from it and very actually kind of like wholesome and sweet. And I was, I had a really, I had, I had a lot of like real joy and love and happiness during that time. It was like, it was like the tornado was right outside the door. And if you were inside, you were like, it's so nice. And then you'd open the door and be

• 1:15:56Speaker 01

  like, ah, it's like a fucking like cow and a tractor would fly by, you know?

• 1:16:01Alex Cooper?

  What makes, I have so much empathy for you because not even like close to it, but like I've gone through an experience similar. Can you talk to me about the frustration though of seeing essentially a smear campaign being created and not like you can't, you can't come out and, and dispel every single rumor because then you look like a fucking crazy lady.

• 1:16:24Speaker 01

  And it was so hard to, because I wanted to be like, can I just talk to people? Can I just go and say like, that's not true. That's not true. And it was like, no, that won't help. And that was really hard. I just, I, I, I was also responsible for, uh, you know, promoting a movie. I was responsible towards the movie. I was like, it's not about me. It's about this, this movie that everyone worked so hard to make. And I felt like I was working on behalf of hundreds of people who had worked through COVID to make something really difficult. And I, I, I felt, I felt frustrated that I couldn't defend myself, but it also felt like, okay, it's not about you. It's not about you. Just get the movie out. And

• 1:17:05Speaker 01

  The pummeling that I took was so insanely disproportionate, but I think the the thing that I understand.

• 1:17:14Alex Cooper?

  Tell me.

• 1:17:15Speaker 01

  You can get really angry. You can be, and I'm sure you have felt this, you're like, the frustration, you feel so angry. Thing is like, I get it. Like shit's hard. The world is insane and the escapism of the tabloids is something that is in a way very soothing for people. It's understandable. And that's such a weird thing that we, we all are, are capable of. So I felt this like understanding. I also felt like, oh, no wonder people are filling in the gaps with, with fiction because they don't have all the information.

• 1:17:53Alex Cooper?

  No. And so then, then they're going to create stories and it is fun to create crazy stories.

• 1:17:58Speaker 01

  Totally fun.

• 1:17:58Alex Cooper?

  It also, when you talk about the disproportionate aspect of this, um, and kind of similar to what we've been talking about as women in this industry and everything we have to go through, your clothing even became a huge topic of conversation during this time. You were trying too hard.

• 1:18:15Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:18:16Alex Cooper?

  You were attempting to outshine the cast.

• 1:18:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:18:18Alex Cooper?

  Then you were showing too much skin.

• 1:18:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:18:19Alex Cooper?

  Then you were copying your boyfriend.

• 1:18:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:22Alex Cooper?

  And it was like, what do you think was underneath people's like drive and need to take a style choice and use it as an opportunity to essentially judge your entire being and character?

• 1:18:39Speaker 01

  I, I think that what happens is people become hypersensitive. They, they're looking for evidence to reinforce the narrative they've already created about you. So if they've decided because the kind of tabloids have cast you in the soap opera of the tabloids as the villain, that's been determined. And so anything you do, it's like, it'll reinforce that same thing.

• 1:19:00Alex Cooper?

  I mean,

• 1:19:03Speaker 01

  Again, like, I don't, I don't blame people because I underst- I mean, I sort of, yeah, I felt, I feel like hurt by it and, and confused, but, but I don't know, it, in a way, it was almost like it wasn't me. It's like, I could, I think that people just removed the, the human from it and it was just like a thing. But I also think he had lack of information. Also, I, at the time, I think, didn't understand the value of vulnerability. I think I thought that, put a fucking smile on and get out there and put on a beautiful dress and, like, be

• 1:19:44Speaker 01

  Teflon. And that that was the way to get through it. I actually think there's value in being vulnerable and just being like, oh, ouch, I don't know, this fuck hurts. I don't, and I think that my own attempt to be strong and to kind of like, rise above it, in a way, came off as inauthentic. Because people are like, you must be hurting. Why are you pretending to not be hurting? I think that feels inauthentic. And there's almost a sixth sense, like uncanny valley thing where people are like, I sense, I sense that you're not showing us your pain, and therefore, I'm gonna cause you more pain.

• 1:20:23Alex Cooper?

  That's, you know what's hard too, is like, the way that it's so piecemealed on the internet and the tabloids, you're like, this is such the weirdest wrong story. And like, that's not what's happening behind the scenes at all. But again, then you have understandably PR people being like, shut your fucking mouth and get on the carpet and don't say anything.

• 1:20:41Speaker 01

  Get out there.

• 1:20:42Alex Cooper?

  And it makes me think of, I had a conversation with Michelle Obama this past year, and she talked about how she put so much thought into every single outfit she wore every day, and she had to. And what would the message be? And what, how would it, you know, come off? And her husband never even had to think about that. Men don't have to think about

• 1:21:06Speaker 01

  No, and then his only scandal was that tan suit.

• 1:21:10Speaker 01

  It's like, they don't have to think about it. And yet, he did, because people were like, there's gotta be something we can say. And it's like, that suit, unacceptable, Brock.

• 1:21:18Alex Cooper?

  But like, what?

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  Unacceptable. Apologize.

• 1:21:21Alex Cooper?

  And so, I couldn't help but think, like, how much thought are you putting into your fashion choices for promoting your new film?

• 1:21:28Speaker 01

  Oh, funny. I mean.

• 1:21:30Alex Cooper?

  Because this is a different vibe.

• 1:21:31Speaker 01

  This is a different. I think that there, I think that I am at this place where I, I rather, I think when you go through something like that, you can choose to say, like, I'm never letting anyone in ever again. I am a lockbox and you can't come near me. Or you can choose a path that is more vulnerable, but is more authentic. And I think that I, as I've gotten older, have become more and more myself. Um, there's a Miles Davis quote that's like, it takes you a long time to, to sound like yourself. And I think that it is clear to

• 1:22:10Speaker 01

  me that I am way more comfortable with myself now than I was before all that happened. So again, that like, the, the kind of destruction that it felt like allowed for the rebuilding. But it was, it was fucking insane. I can't even describe to you. Like, when it got, when it got, I remember when we got to the point of like, spit gate, we were like, okay.

• 1:22:36Alex Cooper?

  Oh my god, I forgot about that.

• 1:22:38Speaker 01

  Do you remember that?

• 1:22:38Alex Cooper?

  Wait, wasn't it like, you, they thought that you spit on someone?

• 1:22:42Speaker 01

  They thought that Harry spat on Chris Pine, and it really looked like it. It was really funny. We were all, we like, did the Venice Film Festival, we're like, that was fun. And we, we flew home and we, we got to New York and then it was like, um, you guys did, um, did, Harry, did you spit on Chris? And, and we were like, what? And they were like, look at this video. It really, and we looked and we're like, okay, fair enough. That looks.

• 1:23:07Alex Cooper?

  Kind of lowkey looked like it.

• 1:23:08Speaker 01

  It was like this weird optical illusion, but the fact that then it turned into this massive thing, I was like, okay, we've tilted into a, a world of like, insane, complete surrealism.

• 1:23:20Alex Cooper?

  The slow mo video.

• 1:23:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:22Alex Cooper?

  The analyzing, I remember, I forgot about that.

• 1:23:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was like.

• 1:23:27Alex Cooper?

  The biggest thing in the world.

• 1:23:28Speaker 01

  It was the biggest. And again, it was, must have been like, America was trying to avoid its own pain. Because wait, that must have been an escape. But it was crazy, like.

• 1:23:39Speaker 01

  The funny thing, the funny thing about all of that was that I continued to try to tell myself throughout all the things like the movie and then after the movie, like it's okay, like you're probably just the only one noticing these things, like my cadaver Gollum photo. You're the only one who noticed and I'm sure no one else saw and then being like, oops, like I will never forget, I, one of the most fucked up things that I went through among so many was that I was served papers onstage. And I'll just say that now with enough space behind it, the part that I can laugh at is that obviously it was incredibly traumatizing.

• 1:24:21Speaker 01

  There's so many elements to that, but I get through it because weirdly as women were taught to muscle through the most insane experiences. I was like, just finish your speech. Got through it. It went backstage completely like, like dissolved into a puddle. But then I thought was like, I was like, no one saw it because there's no phones allowed in this event. And so that is no one saw. Oh, what's that? It's already up on page six. There's a video. Okay. Well, no one's gonna look because like no one's paying attention. And then I remember like a couple of months later, I had the chance, I met Tom Cruise and he was like, hi, I'm Tom. Fucked up. What happened to you in Vegas? And I was like, no. You're like, I convinced myself, Tom, that no one knew. Why are you talking to me? Olivia? No, you've

• 1:25:05Speaker 01

  had like a crazy fucking, bro, that, that moment, did you ever get clarity on like, if it was purposeful or not? No, I had, basically, I, I know, Jason has, has, has told me that he did not know, and I need to believe that in order to continue. And you know, I, I think that lawyers can be super fucked up and do fucked up things. And I'm aware of that. And, and all of it is, is, is, you know, but I think that.

• 1:25:45Speaker 01

  People are never their best selves when they're engaging in that kind of process. And it was so fucked up in so many ways. I don't think, I know that whether or not he knew it was gonna happen, I know it really hurt him to see it happening to me. Like, I think it was undeniable that it was like a fucked up thing. And I know he felt very, very bad that it happened to me.

• 1:26:07Speaker 01

  It was, it was a moment that I ended up doing a lot of therapy about, still kind of do, there's a, there's the feeling of being on stage, you know, like, that is a vulnerable feeling. Also, that room was, couldn't have been higher stress. The people in that room at CinemaCon are all the, um, they're all the most, it's all the studio people. So it's all the people you were trying to like impress the most with your work. And all the exhibitors, the people at the movie theaters, the people you need to sell your movies, and all the press. And it was like, I cannot fucking believe this is happening to me here. And yet, you know, the crazy thing is like, once you make it through

• 1:26:52Speaker 01

  things like that, you kind of feel like you can make it through anything.

• 1:26:55Alex Cooper?

  I would assume, because these are, these are, we're at, we're peak, babe. Like, we, it couldn't get crazier. And I, I have so much respect for you in that moment. I think everyone in the world did. And I can't help but think too of like, you're navigating, like, you know, the dissolution of a public relationship. You're in a now public relationship at the time. And I remember some of the headlines saying, moving on too quickly. Um, she's abandoning her family and her children, like-

• 1:27:26Speaker 01

  That was bad. That hurt.

• 1:27:28Alex Cooper?

  How did you feel about being, like, how much women are judged, again disproportionately than the men in those situations, when you were reading those headlines?

• 1:27:39Speaker 01

  I remember there was a, um, it was Thanksgiving, and we were separated, and I was with the kids, because it was my time to be with the kids. Uh, everything was as it should be. Uh, kids were with me, and Jason was photographed with his girlfriend on the beach in like Costa Rica or something. And the press were like, yay for him. Like, he looks so happy, so wonderful. And I was like, if I was away from my children on a national holiday-

• 1:28:12Alex Cooper?

  You're dead.

• 1:28:12Speaker 01

  Brawling on a beach, it'd be like, literally just burn her at the stake now.

• 1:28:16Alex Cooper?

  No, take her out.

• 1:28:16Speaker 01

  Take the kids away from her forever and burn her to the ground.

• 1:28:19Alex Cooper?

  She should lose custody.

• 1:28:20Speaker 01

  She should, it would have been used in the court of law. It was crazy that, you know, he wasn't doing anything wrong. I knew where he was. He knew where, everything was as we, it was my week with the kids. But I was like, what the fuck? And then I would, on my weeks when I wasn't, and I would be, you know, somewhere, people would be like, wow, my, my, my.

• 1:28:42Alex Cooper?

  She forgot her kids.

• 1:28:43Speaker 01

  Oh, she forgot her kids. I guess she forgot. She's a mom.

• 1:28:46Alex Cooper?

  The double standard.

• 1:28:47Speaker 01

  It was nuts. But you know, there was never any public understanding, of course, because they're not a part of our private lives, but of that breakup, like, it's no surprise to me that I ended up making a movie about relationships and, and the complexity of

• 1:29:09Speaker 01

  determining whether a relationship is over because it is not an overnight process. It's very difficult. And the idea that relationships can come to a place where you become strangers, like, I, I mean, I, I always, I remember the date because it was my birthday, but this is March 2020, March 10th. And Jason and I had been having a rough time for a while. Like, we had, we had a real bumpy, bumpy ride and, and we were driving home from my birthday party my friends had had. And I said, did you give me a birthday present? And he said, what would I get you, Olivia? I don't know you.

• 1:29:52Speaker 01

  And he wasn't wrong. We didn't know each other anymore. And this is the thing that made me want to make this movie because, or one of the things, because You can get to a place in a relationship where you stop engaging in the knowing of each other, in the curiosity about each other, and you find yourself in a place where you're like, I don't even know you. And that was a point, that was when we realized it was over. And it was fucking tough and, and, and it brought us to the place of like, okay, this is done. We're gonna end this. And then literally, two days later was lockdown, COVID.

• 1:30:33Alex Cooper?

  You're like, oh.

• 1:30:34Speaker 01

  And then we, you know, I'm sure there were a lot of couples. I wonder, it'd be really funny to have a convention of like, everybody who broke up the day before lockdown and then had to live, and then be like, we are now co-parenting in the same house. And, and obviously trying to make it work and trying to put it back together because you want to always put it back together for your kids until you realize like, this isn't helping anybody.

• 1:30:58Alex Cooper?

  That is so insightful because when I was watching this movie, I was blown away by how you were able to so eloquently, slow roll for us essentially, the way that a marriage can become so frictionful, but so subtle. Cause even the banter that you provided us and the brilliant dialogue, it's funny. And I have no couples like that. We're like, it's entertaining.

• 1:31:37Speaker 01

  Oh, that was how we were.

• 1:31:38Alex Cooper?

  Mean.

• 1:31:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think that you, it's when you're still, there's so many couples who are like, bickering in a way that becomes kind of a little comedy act.

• 1:31:49Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 1:31:50Speaker 01

  But there's contempt underneath. And we all know contempt is the end. And it is this kind of poking and scraping, but you can go a long time with that. And it takes somebody stopping engaging in that, that to, to, to have the real conversation. And you're right, this movie is about Seth Rogen and my character are, are engaged in this kind of passive aggressive.

• 1:32:19Speaker 01

  Non-communication, constant bickering, constant talking over each other, and just little digs, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig. And yet, and they are living in the same space, and yet, they are miles apart. They don't know each other at all.

• 1:32:33Alex Cooper?

  At all. And what I love so much is you exploring what Esther always talks about was like, that need and want for desire. The moment I remember you put on the shirt, and he's like, is that a new shirt? You're in the middle of fighting. He's like, is that a new shirt? And you're like, yeah, it's a new shirt. And he's like, it looks really nice on you. And you're like, well, you could tell me that more often. And he's like, I just told you. And it's so real. Where like, you're not feeling seen. He's seeing you in that moment, but you're then like, equating it to the larger understanding. Like, but you never see me. And he's like, I'm just fucking seeing you right now. And it's like, that's so real. It's so real.

• 1:33:07Speaker 01

  Also, once we, it's kind of like what we were just saying about how like, the public, once they assign this identity to you, then they just confirm it. Everything's confirmation bias. I think in a relationship, that can happen too, where you've decided like, you're an asshole and you don't listen to me. And then if they're listening to you, you're like, oh, really? You're listening to me right now?

• 1:33:23Alex Cooper?

  You're now listening?

• 1:33:24Speaker 01

  Why? Ugh, this just draws attention to when you don't listen. And it's like, okay, but at what point are you going to allow for change? And I think people often don't allow for change until something calamitous happens. Until there's like, somebody cheats or something falls through, and then, then people allow for change.

• 1:33:58Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Ross. Fall is about finding pieces you love, making them your own, and creating looks and spaces just right for the season. Whether you're updating a small apartment or a spacious home, drawn to timeless neutrals, or bold seasonal touches, Ross makes it easy to imagine what's next and bring your fall vision to life. Ross makes fashion accessible to all with up to 20 to 60% off other retailers' prices on the brands you love. Find your nearest Ross at rossstores.com. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Pandora Jewelry. I love to accessorize my outfits with jewelry, obviously, and I feel like all the

• 1:34:40Alex Cooper?

  time depending on my outfit, it's going to be kind of dependent on what jewelry I'm wanting to wear that day. Discover Pandora Talisman, a new collection designed to help you express every side of who you are, because the most powerful statement you can make is being yourself, obviously. Daddy Gang, they have meaningful zodiac symbols and personalized jewelry pieces. Each design tells a story that's uniquely yours, a reflection of what you stand for, what you believe, and how you choose to show up every day. Pandora Talisman, a new language of self-expression, because every version of you deserves to be seen. Shop new styles in-store or online at pandora.net.

• 1:35:18Alex Cooper?

  I want to ask you so much about the movie. I have two more questions that I think are kind of pertinent to like what we've been discussing, especially as a woman. I need to hear just your take on men date who are in positions of power, date younger women all the time. Like it is, and everyone's like, and? Yeah. Like, there's no, there's no question. What do you think was so triggering to people seeing you dating a man that they deemed you the position of power and the older woman? Like, what was it there that you think was upsetting to people?

• 1:35:54Speaker 01

  Oh, man. I don't know. It really did upset people, though.

• 1:35:59Alex Cooper?

  The resentment, the suspicion of you?

• 1:36:02Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It, it was crazy. I don't know how much I understand it yet. That's one of the factors that I never really felt like I fully, I don't know. I mean, I know it, I know that it has existed for a long time in our society. Like, I understand it had very little to do with me. It is something that we have, we've done this to women for a long time. Why is it? I don't know. People were fucking pissed. I think that, I, I, I think that it also had a lot to do with the kind of parasocial relationship people had

• 1:36:41Speaker 01

  with, have with him, which is a burden that is very weighty and not something I envy, and he, he carries it with grace. I, I think that is an enormous, enormous responsibility that all those- Like stars have to carry and it's fucking impossible. I don't know. It. It's wild cuz. I mean, we had the loveliest relationship, like so. So sweet and so beautiful and like really actually very. Like domestic and kind and lovely and like. I think that we existed in this like little.

• 1:37:27Speaker 01

  Bubble. And. The judgment. Never really like. Got into that bubble, which was a miracle testament to like. To us like making that happen. I think that people were mad. They were, they were just. It's almost like. The, the happiness made them mad. Like I would like go to his shows and dance and people were like, oh. Ah, good G.

• 1:37:55Alex Cooper?

  You slut.

• 1:37:57Speaker 01

  You fucking slut. You're like, how dare you dance and smile. But you know, like.

• 1:38:04Speaker 01

  Oh God, yeah, that, that is. Why, what do you think? Why do you?

• 1:38:07Alex Cooper?

  I, I think it's almost similar to what you. And that's why I was so fascinated to ask you cuz I do think this is such an important conversation to have. I think that it's similar to Thanksgiving that you just talked about.

• 1:38:19Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:38:20Alex Cooper?

  I think that it's we policewomen's morality to such a different degree than men.

• 1:38:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:25Alex Cooper?

  That and especially mothers. The fact that you have kids, you're fucked.

• 1:38:29Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:38:29Alex Cooper?

  So you're presenting in a way that when you do go through a separation and then you are dating someone who is. You know.

• 1:38:37Speaker 01

  By the way, Jason was dating someone. Right. I think even younger. I think his.

• 1:38:42Alex Cooper?

  No, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I think that there is a expectation, especially as a mother.

• 1:38:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:38:48Alex Cooper?

  That when you go through that public separation with the kids involved. You are supposed to be self sacrificing.

• 1:38:54Speaker 01

  To a convent.

• 1:38:55Alex Cooper?

  And you need to be sexless.

• 1:38:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it's funny. I think it even happens before separation. I think Esther writes about this a lot, but like in this country. Motherhood.

• 1:39:07Speaker 01

  Motherhood means no more sexual being for you, young lady. You, that part of you is over now. And there is this puritanical basis to that, which is like, you are no longer capable of desire. You don't deserve it. You have served your purpose. And now if I see you without your baby and you are like, enjoying yourself as an individual woman, I see that as a betrayal of this covenant. And it, you know, as there were, it's like in France, when you see a baby, when people see babies, they think about sex. Cause they're like, that baby came from sex, so that couple must fuck. When we in America see a baby, we're like, they're not fucking.

• 1:39:52Speaker 01

  They're not fucking. And it's like, cause she's done. And if we see a man alone with a baby, we think that's hot. We are attracted to that man. He, it suggests like, he is a, he's a daddy.

• 1:40:03Alex Cooper?

  He's capable.

• 1:40:04Speaker 01

  He's capable. When we see a woman with a baby, it's not like, oh yeah. Sexy, look at that, look what she can do.

• 1:40:11Alex Cooper?

  She's done.

• 1:40:11Speaker 01

  She's done. And I know you're already facing this. And it is something that is, it's wild because what you've done to remove shame from the conversation around sexuality and women is fucking revolutionary. It is, it's essential.

• 1:40:30Alex Cooper?

  But it's crazy, Olivia, because the way that they're like, this slut.

• 1:40:35Speaker 01

  Oh yeah.

• 1:40:36Alex Cooper?

  Is now having a baby, she's the biggest fucking hypocrite on the planet.

• 1:40:40Speaker 01

  Do they not know how babies are made? And it's so healthy to be the example of both. And that after you pop this baby out, you will continue to be a fully realized sexual human being. And that that's good. And it's like a very healthy thing. And that if you in your relationship were to lose that, that wouldn't make you happy and it would be unnecessary. And I think that you're right, once there's separation involved, then it's another level. Now it is like, you go sit in the corner, young lady, old lady, and you.

• 1:41:13Alex Cooper?

  Old lady.

• 1:41:13Speaker 01

  You old lady, and you. Think about what you've done and the only time you're allowed out is if you are like holding a child or else like we don't want to

• 1:41:20Alex Cooper?

  We don't want to see you. Can you talk to me about sex in this movie? Because it, there was so much to it. There was so much explored. Like you talked about, you know, you and your dynamic with Seth Rogen and you guys as, you know, actors, not having sex in your dynamic and realizing you hadn't had sex in almost a year. The other couple looking at you guys like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Like, talk to me about sex.

• 1:41:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it, one of my favorite parts of the movie is this argument we have about why we don't have sex. And I, I, I love this one moment where Seth as Joe says, "We don't have sex because you won't have sex with me. You're supposed to be attracted to me. You're supposed to want me. You're my wife." And that line, it, I remember when he said it and you can see on camera, you can see like veins popping out of my neck because I was like, no! Because it felt like it was like, this is the core of what is wrong with the, the society and how what we're expected to do as partners and as wives and, and husbands.

• 1:42:26Speaker 01

  It's like, you are supposed to want me forever without any participation in that, without earning it. And I think that we don't talk about sex with the person we're in a relationship with, Esther. And we then just decide that we deserve it and it's their fault if we're not getting it, even though we're not typically communicating about what we want and what we need. But the other thing is like, and Seth and I felt very passionate about this when we were making the movie. We were like, we feel very strongly that sex is important in a relationship and that it, people who don't have sex and say, well, we don't have sex,

• 1:43:11Speaker 01

  but we have like a really healthy relationship, I call bullshit on it. And I understand that some people might disagree, but the thing is, the value of non-verbal communication and the practice of the kind of trust and curiosity involved in intimacy, that is a big part of, of, of a relationship. And I think if you have Have ceased to engage in that. You have to pay attention. It's not, I'm not saying like, if you don't fuck 11 times a month, you're a bad marriage. It's not that. It's like, like the old like Cosmo quizzes or whatever. It is, it's just that you have to look at it. You

• 1:43:51Speaker 01

  have to look at like, why aren't you able to non-verbally communicate in this very vulnerable way? Is it because there's a deeper conversation that needs to take place?

• 1:44:04Alex Cooper?

  And the way that you explored a lot of these topics from the female perspective, when you guys brought up menopause and Penelope's like, let me, let me equate menopause to you. And you were like crushing your balls, pulling that. And Seth Rogen is literally like, I'm so fucking scared.

• 1:44:23Speaker 01

  That was all Penelope and Rashida. They felt very passionate about making sure that was in there. And I was like, fuck yeah, let's go. Let's talk about perimenopause. I learned so much from the process of, of all of us putting that together because I was like, I had never heard of a lot of this. I hadn't heard of frozen shoulder. I hadn't heard of like, all these things. And I was sitting there like a student being like, what's gonna happen? Why don't we talk about this? And I, I, we're hearing it more and people are really starting to bring it into like the discourse and that's awesome. But I, I think that that is one example of the kind of conversations that people are just not having, and particularly with their partners. Cause it also feels like, I think that topic specifically

• 1:45:07Speaker 01

  feels like an acknowledgement of aging in a way that feels scary. Cause then it's like, will you not want me anymore? Blah, blah, blah.

• 1:45:16Alex Cooper?

  No, it's so true. It's so true. I cannot wait for people to see this movie. I think that, again, I had no idea what to expect and I am so excited to also see the difference in reaction between men and women.

• 1:45:30Speaker 01

  I was gonna say, will you watch it with Matt?

• 1:45:32Alex Cooper?

  No. And I called him this morning and I was like, oh my God, you have to fucking watch this. And he was like, is it like a thriller? Like I, the, the trailer, I don't understand what, and I'm like, I, I don't want to tell you much, but it starts and, and you just get so entranced in this entire dynamic. And I want to hear your perspective on it. Cause Matt is someone who's in therapy. His mom's a therapist. Like he is into this type of shit, but I cannot wait to see men versus women and how they feel about it.

• 1:46:00Speaker 01

  Also, there is an ambiguous ending to it.

• 1:46:03Alex Cooper?

  Um, ambiguous. I was like, what the fuck?

• 1:46:07Speaker 01

  At the end of every screening, I've been doing a poll and I have said, do you think these people stay together or not?

• 1:46:16Alex Cooper?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:46:16Speaker 01

  And

• 1:46:17Alex Cooper?

  I'll tell you off camera what my thoughts.

• 1:46:19Speaker 01

  It's really interesting because I will say women tend to believe that they don't. And it is interesting to me because I think it's brought me to this realization that

• 1:46:34Speaker 01

  when women are done with a relationship, they're done. They're done. Women don't really come back. A guy sometimes comes back. Women, by the time we decide to go, we've thought about it. We have, we have reviewed it with our committee and we have internally.

• 1:46:53Alex Cooper?

  The committee's like, this is how we'll leave. We'll get the bags on this day. When men do it, it's like, I think I want to, I think I want to end it.

• 1:47:00Speaker 01

  I don't want to, I never mind. I didn't mean to say that.

• 1:47:03Alex Cooper?

  All right, we'll stay.

• 1:47:04Speaker 01

  And so I, I'm fascinated by the response that the audiences have been having. But also my, my interpretation of it is changing based on like how romantic I'm feeling on any Saturday. I'm like, I don't know. And

• 1:47:17Alex Cooper?

  I can't believe you're such, so you're a real big romantic.

• 1:47:19Speaker 01

  I am.

• 1:47:20Alex Cooper?

  Olivia Wilde.

• 1:47:21Speaker 01

  It would just make any sense considering everything we've just covered, like how?

• 1:47:25Alex Cooper?

  I love it.

• 1:47:26Speaker 01

  That's the thing, the, the, like, if you can, if you can grow older and stay hopeful in every way about everything, then you've really won, right? Like you've, you've managed to defeat the like pitfalls that allow you to just like become pessimistic about everything. And I think that like romance, I'm, I'm still a sucker for it. I, I think that I've learned to be alone, which is amazing and which has made me capable of relationships. But like, I tell everybody and I, I know the daddy gang knows this because you've said it in different ways, but like.

• 1:48:08Speaker 01

  Spend some ti- I'm, oh, I can't. Spend some time alone. Be single. Be, figure out who you are as a whole being. And then you might be ready to be in a relationship. But until you do that, you just don't know.

• 1:48:22Alex Cooper?

  You don't know. And then you could potentially be someone who settles.

• 1:48:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:48:26Alex Cooper?

  And we don't want to settle.

• 1:48:27Speaker 01

  No, there's no need.

• 1:48:29Alex Cooper?

  I could talk to you for so many more hours. I had so much excitement coming into this. I literally had been talking to my mom, my sister, my friends about this. When we booked this, I was like, I have so much respect for you and I feel very insympatico with you in a lot of ways of like

• 1:48:48Speaker 01

  Same.

• 1:48:48Alex Cooper?

  being a very confident, strong woman. And I say that, and I know people can roll their eyes because it's like, don't have too much confidence. But it's like, I feel that in you and I feel that within myself. And when you're unapologetic, it can really rub people the wrong way.

• 1:49:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:49:02Alex Cooper?

  And I have so much respect for the way that you have navigated the public and, and just everything you've done because you're so bright and intelligent and smart. And it shows in this movie and all the other things that you've done. And so to not give credit to that first and be like, but I think she's a bitch. And it's like, I don't give a fuck if she's a bitch. She's talented and she's intelligent. And guess what? She's actually also not a bitch. What a concept.

• 1:49:29Speaker 01

  The thing, I'm so glad. The thing that, the thing that I have learned, and I actually did, I, I learned this from, um, this sounds so crazy, but after I saw the documentary about Pamela Anderson, I reached out to her and I was like, yo, respect. Just want to say, big fan, respect. And she was aware of some of the shit that I was going through. And she wrote to me and she said, the most rebellious thing you can do is stay soft. Don't let it harden you. And I think that connects to what I was saying before about like, Being, staying vulnerable and, and I want to tell you because you are only going to get

• 1:50:14Speaker 01

  more and more powerful and successful and you're going to continue this work, which is so essential. As I was saying, like, don't, don't let them fuck with you. But the unapologetic thing you can misunderstand to mean invulnerable. And I think like staying soft and vulnerable and being comfortable saying like, you guys, it's, that fucking hurts and it's not real and it's not true. And like, don't feel like you have to stay so strong for us. We know you're strong. It's okay to be soft if you need to.

• 1:50:45Alex Cooper?

  My pregnancy hormones are like, um, thank you so much for coming on Call Her Daddy. This was beyond, beyond an honor. Seriously, love you.

• 1:50:54Speaker 01

  Thank you. I love you.

• 1:51:11Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Ross. Fall is about finding pieces you love, making them your own and creating looks and spaces just right for the season. Whether you're updating a small apartment or a spacious home, drawn to timeless neutrals or bold seasonal touches, Ross makes it easy to imagine what's next and bring your fall vision to life. Ross makes fashion accessible to all with up to 22 60% off other retailers' prices on the brands you love. Find your nearest Ross at rossstores.com. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Klavio. So Klavio says it's your brand's best friend. Bold claim, but here's the thing.

• 1:51:52Alex Cooper?

  Klavio knows your brand, your tone, your customers, all your data in one place. Klavio's AI agents answer them 24/7 in your voice and build your campaigns from one prompt, emails, texts, and WhatsApp. Plus Klavio finds your next sale before you do. It's time to meet your new CRM BFF. Go to K L A V I Y O dot com slash best friends. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Pandora Jewelry. I love to accessorize my outfits with jewelry, obviously, and I feel like all the time depending on my outfit, it's going to be kind of dependent on what jewelry I'm wanting

• 1:52:32Alex Cooper?

  to wear that day. Discover Pandora Talisman, a new collection designed to help you express every side of who you are, because the most powerful statement you can make is being yourself, obviously. Daddy Gang, they have meaningful zodiac symbols and personalized jewelry pieces. Each design tells a story that's uniquely yours, a reflection of what you stand for, what you believe, and how you choose to show up every day. Pandora Talisman, a new language of self-expression, because every version of you deserves to be seen. Shop new styles in-store or online at pandora.net.