Pod Insights The Psychology of your 20s 399. The psychology of exercise About this episode We all know exercise is ‘good for us’, but why is it that a walk can calm your brain, why a workout can feel like emotional release, or why movement can become either self-care or self-punishment. In this episode, we unpack the psychology of exercise – what’s happening to our brains over time, where the ‘exercise as antidepressants’ claim came from, and what happens when it crosses into obsession.
We explore:
• The role of endorphins and endocannabinoids
• How movement can regulate our emotions
• Identity and motivation in exercise
• How exercise changes our brains
• The role of exercise in treating depression
• How to build a healthier relationship with exercise
Watch on Netflix: HERE https://netflix.com/thepsychologyofyour20s
Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg https://www.instagram.com/jemmasbeg/?hl=en#
Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast https://www.instagram.com/thatpsychologypodcast/?hl=en#
Subscribe on Substack: @thepsychologyofyour20s https://substack.com/@thepsychologyofyour20s
For business: [email protected] mailto:[email protected]
Our favourite sources:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10813489/
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/56/2/101.abstract
https://insight.jci.org/articles/view/126190
The Psychology of your 20s is not a substitute for professional mental health help. If you are struggling, distressed or require personalised advice, please reach out to your doctor or a licensed psychologist.
See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
0:04 Speaker 01 OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.
0:33 Speaker 02 This is the story of the one. As a shipping manager, he's running the dock, stocking supplies, and making sure every order goes out on time. And Grainger helps him stay prepared. From shipping supplies to PPE to hand tools, he counts on Grainger to keep products moving and trucks rolling. So his operation runs smoothly, no matter the shift. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click Grainger.com, or just stop by. Grainger, for the ones who get it done.
1:03 Jemma Sbeg? This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over 14 years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on, and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is. Lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favorite gym clothing at gymshark.com.
1:41 Jemma Sbeg? No one's journey is the same. That's why Delta SkyMiles moves with you. Whether it's earning miles from coffee runs to flights to redeeming for vacations your way or even unlocking exclusive experiences, a SkyMiles membership fits into your lifestyle, letting you do more of what makes you you. It's more than travel. It's the membership that flies, dines, streams, rides, and arrives with you. Because when you have a membership, that's as unique. As you are, there's no telling where your journey will take you next. You know that feeling when your skin just needs a tall drink of water? That's what Clinique Moisture Surge 100 Hour Moisturizer is for.
2:22 Jemma Sbeg? Moisture Surge 100 Hour Moisturizer absorbs instantly and hydrates for 100 hours for plump glowing skin. That's right, 100 hours. It is a lightweight, oil-free gel cream, safe for sensitive skin. It's allergy-tested and fragrance-free. I use this all the time. It makes my skin feel so fresh and plump and glowy. Even under makeup, I still see an amazing difference. It never leaves my skin oily or tacky. Try Clinique Moisture Surge 100 Hour today at Clinique.com. Feels like moisture surge.
3:07 Jemma Sbeg? Hello, everybody. I'm Jemma Sbeg and welcome back to the Psychology of Your 20s, the podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology.
3:26 Jemma Sbeg? Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. It is so great to have you here back for another episode as we, of course, break down the psychology of our 20s. I just want to give you guys a heads up. Today's episode will touch on themes to do with eating disorders, uh, weight loss, body image and exercise addiction. So if that is something that you are struggling with or you know you are particularly sensitive to, please take care. There will be some links in the description below. And honestly, feel free to skip this episode. Feel free to come back to it at a later date. It will always be here in a day, in a month, in a year, when you are in a better headspace.
4:08 Jemma Sbeg? Today, everybody, we are talking about something that almost feels too obvious to analyse. We are talking about the psychology of exercise. We all know exercise is good for us. We all know it has something to do with endorphins, something to do with a chemical reaction in our brain we're not really aware of, but it is so much deeper than that. Exercise changes the literal structure of your brain. We have seen it in study after study. It makes you smarter, it makes you sharp, it greatly influences the functioning of your mind. And especially if you make exercise regular, structured, goal-centred, social, you will reduce your risk of cancer, dementia.
4:50 Jemma Sbeg? You will reduce your risk of basically every and any disease you can think of. It also has a much darker side that many of us are all too familiar with. The use of exercise as punishment, the use of it to maintain a disordered body image, exercise addiction. We're gonna talk about it all, and I promise, as boring as you may think this topic is, we're gonna go deeper than you are probably used to. Talking about exercise on an emotional level, a physical level, a psychological level, to kind of determine what exercises are best for us, what exercises are best for our mind.
5:33 Jemma Sbeg? What does it do for us psychologically? How to find exercise you enjoy? And why the intensity of your exercise doesn't really matter. It's often the consistency. So there is a lot to discuss. Without further ado, let's get into the psychology of exercise.
5:58 Jemma Sbeg? We've all heard, you know, exercise makes you feel good, it makes you feel amazing. We've all probably felt the effect of a great workout. What is that feeling? Where does that actually come from? The main like celebrity of this topic is obviously the role of endorphins. Would endorphins are basically um your body's endogenous opioids, meaning they are chemicals your brain and your pituitary gland produces naturally that bind to opioid receptors in your brain. The same receptors that can be stimulated by an external source like drugs or like other substances. We hear a lot about them in reference to exercise, but they are silently involved in everything from
6:42 Jemma Sbeg? pain management to your stress response, how your brain sees reward. Basically, your endorphins through all these different functions contribute to the the very human feeling of I can do hard things, whether that's in life, at work, but also when it comes to like intense physical effort. I can do hard things. What are they actually doing in your brain and your body when you exercise that makes them as powerful as they are. Essentially, as the intensity of exercise rises, your body is attempting to balance a lot of different signals, right? Like you are deliberately putting yourself under strain,
7:25 Jemma Sbeg? maybe under pain, under fatigue, under stress, and your conscious interpretation of that is to not do that. Is to slow down. And what endorphins do is try and work on the pain and frustration and stress part of this so that you keep going, so that you finish the workout, so that you finish the run. They make discomfort basically feel less threatening, they make it feel more tolerable, so you can keep going. A big way they do that is they turn down the volume of of pain signals in your body and in your mind so that you are able to continue with an activity without panicking. They are one of the reasons that effort and exercise can feel
8:07 Jemma Sbeg? so satisfying rather than just unpleasant. It's why we get, you know, a runner's high. It's why we feel so euphoric at the end of a workout. But they are not the only explanation for this feeling. And for why exercise feels so emotionally emotionally rewarding. Actually, a lot of research suggests that the endorphins released into your bloodstream, like when you are working out. They actually don't cross the blood brain barrier that quickly. It seems like slightly improbable that they would be able to have that impact in such a short term amount of time.
8:50 Jemma Sbeg? This is the reason why scientists kind of started to look for other other explanations, like for what is really influencing our brains directly when we exercise. There is a very strong argument that has come out of this, that the endocannabinoid system is actually what deserves a lot of the credit when it comes to the feel good feeling of exercise. You may hear cannabinoid and think we're gonna talk about marijuana. Well, not actually, but they are kind of related. Endocannabinoids are molecu- molecules your body produces that bind to the cannabinoid receptor. That is the same like receptors that respond to the effects of cannabis.
9:33 Jemma Sbeg? Except cannabinoids in your body are internally produced. So you don't have to smoke something or consume something to get that feeling. To get that boost in your mood, reduction in your anxiety, sense of reward, maybe even that floaty feeling. There is so much research that shows exercise boosts endocannabinoids. But endocannabinoids also make you want to exercise too. So it kind of works both ways. Essentially, like, these chemicals are what make you feel not just good and happy, but calm. That is why you might feel lighter, calmer, floaty after a run or after a workout. That's why you might feel relaxed.
10:19 Jemma Sbeg? This same system also seems to influence motivation, i.e. whether or not you wanna move in the first place. It's not just the nice feeling afterwards, there's actually something else going on. In twenty nineteen, a group of researchers from France conducted a study on a group of mice. Looking into this. And they basically, they asked a very relatable question. Why don't some mice, why don't some people find exercise as attractive? You know, there are some mice, as there are some humans who will happily run for for miles. Who will find that really rewarding. And who would, you know, prefer that over a simpler reward like chocolate.
11:02 Jemma Sbeg? And then there are some humans who, uh, or and mice who are the opposite, who just really don't enjoy running, would much rather the simple reward of of a chocolate or of or of sitting down or of talking with friends. Um, what they basically thought was that whether people are naturally drawn towards exercise comes down to these cannabinoid receptors. And so what they did is they had two groups of mice and in one of the groups, they knocked out these receptors, the receptors like what they're called, they're called C B one receptors. They essentially didn't work. So no matter how much external amounts of this they received or internal, they were never gonna get the effect. They then built this challenge, right?
11:45 Jemma Sbeg? The mice could earn access to either the running wheel or a small chocolate treat, but they had to work for both. They had to push their nose against this device, basically like over and over again. And it got increasingly hard if they wanted the reward because they were testing motivation. What they found was pretty amazing. Mice with a strong, working endocannabinoid system actually put in effort to exercise, choosing the running over the chocolate over and over again. And the mice without the cannabinoid receptors. Did not want anything to do with the wheel. They only kind of occasionally wanted something to do with the chocolate, but they definitely didn't want to run.
12:27 Jemma Sbeg? The only thing that was different was these receptors. So in other words, when these cannabinoid receptors aren't functioning, the mice didn't suddenly become lazy overall. They weren't lazy mice. There was just this part of them that lost interest in running. And the researchers' takeaway was that these receptors play a major role in the motivation to exercise. That's why some people really love it, some people don't. This is obviously a mouse study, but it does connect to this bigger idea that's been building in humans too. Some people naturally just do not find exercise as rewarding. Some people naturally could run a hundred miles and never get that high. The question that comes from that is like, is it just their DNA? Um, the answer is a bit more complicated.
13:12 Jemma Sbeg? I think the best way to picture it is this loop whereby exercise actually increases endocannabinoids. Endocannabinoids can make exercise feel more rewarding, which makes you more likely to do it again, which then increases the level and increases how basically receptive our receptors are to this chemical. This also is influenced by environment. So if you grew up in a family where nobody really ever exercised or exercise for you is always associated with discomfort, a social discomfort, an emotional discomfort, bullying, whatever, whatever number of these chemicals you have in your brain, it is always going to be harder to find motivation because the negative reinforcement of this poor past experience
13:55 Jemma Sbeg? will often continuously outweigh the positive reinforcement of these cannabinoids. Let's move on from this biological explanation. Let's talk about why exercise is so powerful from a somatic and emotional perspective because I don't know about you, I don't exercise for the physicality of it. I don't exercise because of looks. I really exercise because I'm a very stressed individual and exercise is one of the only coping strategies I have found that is not self-destructive. And I feel like I have tried a few others. This is because exercise is a form of somatic release. Basically, it is a way for our body to physically process emotions through sensation and movement.
14:39 Jemma Sbeg? A lot of trauma, emotion is obviously psychological. So it's also deeply physical. It sits, it is stored in your body. If you have ever read The Body Keeps The Score, you will know this, but trauma leaves its mark in so many ways, in the form of a hyperactive nervous system, in the form of a constant sense of danger that can wreck havoc on your hormonal balance, stress levels, immune system. To work through stress and emotional trauma, at some point, we have to deal with this physical side. We have to feel safe enough to inhabit our bodies and safe enough for our bodies to return to homeostasis.
15:21 Jemma Sbeg? When we move, the movement gives those, I guess, tense or stuck energy somewhere to go. You know, for example, when you increase respiration and circulation through a run, this can shift your autonomic nervous system back on, from fight and flight to a balanced response to rest and digest. When we exercise, we also convert that weird, vague, floating anxiety that comes from stress into a specific bodily sensation. We begin to find it manageable. It also indicates to your brain, hey, like, we encountered physical stress and we survived.
16:02 Jemma Sbeg? Maybe when we encounter emotional stress that feels like physical stress in the future, we'll be psychologically resilient enough for that as well. This is actually, this has a name in psychology. It's called stress inoculation theory, essentially exposing yourself to manageable voluntary stress like running, like exercise. Uh, it puts your body under a state of strain that then prepares it and allows it to practice coping mechanisms for when it's under stress and strain in the future, in an involuntary way.
16:39 Jemma Sbeg? Finally, this is one of my favorite concepts ever. The reason exercise and specifically forward movement, like walking, running, riding, hiking, horse riding even, the reason those are so good for you emotionally is because of the power of optic flow. Basically, your like hot girl walk is is a form of therapy. Because your eyes make constant lateral movements to track your environment. This optic flow calms the brain's threat processing system and centers. It shifts you into a more relaxed emotional state that can change your thought patterns for the better.
17:21 Jemma Sbeg? Literally, if you have heard of E D M R therapy, the creator of that therapy, Dr. Francine Shapiro, she conceived of that theory, that is one of the most prominent in trauma therapy these days, on a walk. She realized that when she was walking, those movements that her eyes were doing was reducing her stress levels. That is why for some people, when they exercise, when they walk, when they hike, when they run, that is the only time their brain is still. It's the only time they don't overthink. Beyond all this, psychologically as well, I really just think that exercise helps us rewire our mind
18:00 Jemma Sbeg? and change our cognitive frameworks because it gives us benchmarks to strive for, because of the structure of it. You know, how fast can I run? Well, especially if you're focused on improvement, right? How fast can I run? How much further can I run? How much heavier can I lift? How many more reps can I do? How can I improve my form? How many more inches can I get? Benchmarks like that, that are so obvious and available in exercise and sport, are incredibly stabilizing for the human mind because they make progress visible. They give us, they give us a sense of control. I really think that's what it is. Like if we look and we think about the stress we experience in everyday life, a lot of it is external pressure that feels completely outside of us and we have no say in it.
18:46 Jemma Sbeg? You know, we have no say if somebody at work hates us. We have no say if we're having a fight with our friend. We have no say if, I don't know, we got scammed or we missed our bus, some of those things we have say in. But a lot of like the more general stress of living in big cities or being in your twenties, like it just kind of all gets thrown at us. Exercise creates controllable benchmarks that we can work towards systematically. You cannot discount this mental structure. Study after study, including a very famous one in two thousand and eighteen from the University of Exeter and the University of New South Wales, shows that structure like this, the mental structure of exercise reverses mental aging,
19:30 Jemma Sbeg? improves emotional functioning, in reduces your risk factor for dementia. Even if you hate exercise, this is so important to know because you probably won't hate exercise as much as you will hate losing your memory as you get older. And this is one of the best ways you can protect against that. Let's talk about the final element of exercise that makes it so powerful. It is the social psychology behind co-regulation. Doing exercise by yourself, amazing. Doing at least one workout a week with others is spectacular for every single element of your health that you can think of. There is something uniquely regulating about doing something next to somebody.
20:13 Jemma Sbeg? Not necessarily facing them, not necessarily talking deeply, just moving alongside them. Side by side movement like that is one of our most primal states of being. It's one of the most rewarding sensations. It unlocks this deep ancient peace in you because that is how we were meant to move across plains, across mountains with other people, naturally as a pack, side by side for thousands of years. Thousands of years before we got here. That is hardwired into your DNA. For that to be a relaxing, mood-stabilizing sensation, that you are with the herd, you are protected, you are moving forward.
20:54 Jemma Sbeg? In fact, research on this, what they call physical synchrony, shows that it increases bonding, it increases affiliation. Interestingly, it can even shift and downgrade pain tolerance.
21:09 Jemma Sbeg? Literally, your run club is reducing your perception of pain. The best example of this published in the research was a journal from a couple of years ago on group dancing. And it showed that, yeah, dancing is great, but when you dance with other people, it improves emotional coping. People felt better able to handle hard situations when they got out and danced. When they were dancing with other people in a group setting, even at the club, in the old person's home, like that movement is ancient, is an ancient ritual. Physical movement is a spiritual ritual in this sense that unlocks a core, I think a core need in us that not many activities in the modern day will naturally do.
21:53 Jemma Sbeg? That is really our first takeaway from the psychology of exercise. It's not just good for you because of endorphins. Therefore, it doesn't only benefit you if you're pushing yourself to the physical limit every time. There are so many other reasons why even just walking, yoga, low-impact exercise is just as vital and helpful because of somatic release, because of co-regulation, because of physical synchrony. Okay, let's take a short break here before we get into discussing how exercise changes our brains, whether it is or could ever be a replacement for antidepressants, as some suggest. Some of those more controversial sides to this topic we're going to get into after the short break.
22:38 Jemma Sbeg? Stay with us.
22:44 Speaker 01 OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.
23:13 Jemma Sbeg? This episode is sponsored by Jim Shark. Jim Shark has spent over 14 years obsessing over Gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is. Lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favorite gym clothing at gymshark.com.
23:51 Speaker 04 This is Troy Millings. As someone who travels a lot for work, I really appreciate a premium airport experience. With the Delta Sky Miles Reserve Business American Express Card, it truly feels like you can have it all. For a limited time, new Delta Sky Miles Reserve Business Card members can earn 200,000 bonus miles, the highest miles offered this year. Card members can also enjoy 15 visits to the Delta Sky Club each medallion year when flying Delta, and you can unlock unlimited Delta Sky Club access after spending $75,000 in purchases on your card during a calendar year. Those are benefits you can get behind. You also get four one-time guest passes each medallion year, so you can bring a friend or colleague along.
24:34 Speaker 04 15 Sky Club visits plus four guest passes? That's up to $950,000 annual value. Value estimate based on a $50 per visit rate to purchase additional visits or bring a guest to the Delta Sky Club. It's the kind of premium access that helps you feel right at home and at ease, no matter where you're headed. Apply today at www.delta.com/podcast. Offer ends November 4th, 2026. Minimum spending requirements and terms apply.
25:04 Speaker 05 This is Stugatz from Stugatz and Company Live. Buy smart, drive for less and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it all starts with a great deal on an all-wheel drive Camry, Corolla Cross or a Corolla sedan. With the latest features and tech, or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops. While Toyota's legendary resale value means you can get more at trade-in. Get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.
25:43 Speaker 06 Your business operates under pressure and you need control of your data. But IBM Research shows only 9% of companies have real oversight of their technology. IBM's Open Hybrid Cloud approach is designed to give you visibility with built-in governance tools, data sovereignty, and compliance reporting. It's another way IBM helps you stay in control of your data. Let's create smarter business. IBM. Visit IBM.com to learn more.
26:13 Jemma Sbeg? Regular exercise will literally change the physical structure of your brain. That is a claim a lot of people make. Let's explore it together. There is, there is no doubt really that exercise will physically change your brain, but it's not, it's not going to create like new lobes or anything. Primarily, it's going to increase what we call brain volume. And it's also going to promote functional changes as well. So when you hear somebody be like, it changes your brain, it's not giving you a new, a new brain, it's changing how networks in your brain communicate. If we look structurally, one of the most famous findings about the neurological impact
26:53 Jemma Sbeg? of exercise comes from this randomized trial showing that people who did aerobic exercise tend to have increased hippocampal volume. So the hippocampus, basically it's involved in like learning and memory. More volume in those areas means greater memory abilities, means more brain reserves, more neurons, more white matter, greater hydration from more cells being able to hold water. That's all very important for electrical signaling. So that change in volume influences the change in function. This 2011 University of Illinois study trial, I guess, actually looked at 120 older adults and asked them to engage either in regular walking, starting at 10 minutes, going up
27:37 Jemma Sbeg? to 40 minutes, or it asked them just to stretch. They then did a number of before, during, and after MRIs. And what they found was that in these older adults. The hippocampus, the part that usually really shows a decline in age and that naturally shrinks, was staying really strong and healthy, showing less deterioration and sometimes an increase in volume in people who were walking regularly. The craziest statistic from the study, the average volume increase was two percent. That equals one to two years of reversal of age-related volume loss.
28:20 Jemma Sbeg? Basically, they were getting years back of their memory, of their lives, of the plasticity of their brain. And that's really important to emphasize. I think when you do an episode about the psychology of exercise, right?
28:37 Jemma Sbeg? People want you to like emphasize how intense exercise is probably great for you. And you're probably assuming that working out vigorously would increase anaerobic, aerobic, blood circulation, digestion, all these things that would help with this mental longevity and physical longevity. What these studies are showing us is that intensity doesn't matter. All that matters is consistency. All that matters is, how much were they doing? Forty minutes, forty minutes a day? And you are reversing, you are getting years back on your life. And I think that knowledge is important for people who don't always have the best relationship with exercise or people who think that it is, yeah, again, intensity that's gonna matter. Absolutely not.
29:22 Jemma Sbeg? In terms of the more functional changes, um, exercise also improves basically how your different brain networks talk to each other. Your brain has these big systems that switch on depending on what you're doing. One network you hear a lot about in the podcast, the default mode network, is more active when like you're daydreaming or you're stuck in self-focused thought patterns and.
29:50 Jemma Sbeg? Another network, which is the executive control network, is more active when you're concentrating, planning, controlling your attention. A twenty twenty five review of functional connectivity and the relationship it has with exercise revealed that people who exercise regularly can switch between these networks easier. Basically, it nudges your brain to have better coping, to become more flexible and to have smoother switching. Meaning you don't just stick in one mode. We're not always either on or feeling a little bit off or detached. Regular exercise means that we can retune that that kind of network balance
30:30 Jemma Sbeg? to help our brain shift gears between self-focused thought and goal-directed thought more efficiently. And that's great for mental resilience. Now, what does this all mean for our mental health? We have to get to it. We've been circling this element all day for this whole episode. Something that has become a huge annoyance of mine is a very old and I would say increasingly boring narrative that exercise is better than any antidepressant. If you're depressed, put on your running shoes. You don't need a pill, you need some new sneakers, you need to get off the couch and go for a run. I remember a famous TikTok about that a couple of years ago.
31:12 Jemma Sbeg? I don't know, I trained for a half marathon last year. I was running like thirty, thirty-five kilometers a week. I was also on antidepressants and I was still depressed. So unless you wanna say they cancelled each other out, something isn't adding up. Exercise is not the holy grail. I think so many people think it is. I think this belief has gotten worse in recent years because of one very famous study from twenty twenty four. This is a paper that went viral. Academic articles so rarely go viral. And this paper essentially looked at the results of nineteen different studies measuring the effects of dancing on depression in older adults.
31:56 Jemma Sbeg? And it found that those who took part in dance interventions actually saw a significant reduction in depression compared to those who didn't. That's what the the blanket finding was. If we think back to the synchrony research that we talked about earlier, like that makes a lot of sense, right? We're moving with other people, it's this natural rhythm. But the issue is this paper only included nineteen randomized studies, that's only five hundred people all up in these studies. Even themselves, even the researchers themselves said the findings of this paper were high risk for generalization and were probably
32:35 Jemma Sbeg? very low in terms of validity, so the fact that they could be produced again and again and again. So we have to acknowledge there are holes in this research. There was another study that also got a lot of hype that was very similar to this one titled Exercise for Depression. Very to the point title, this research basically published a finding about how exercise can improve depressive symptoms. Which is true, but a lot of people online took that out of context and said this is proof that mentally ill people just need to exercise more. The important caveat, these findings were compared to no treatment, not antidepressants, not therapy.
33:15 Jemma Sbeg? Basically, they had two groups of people, one group was a de- depressed group of people who didn't do any intervention, including exercise. One was a depressed group of people who their only intervention was exercise. That's why they got better, that's why they felt better. It wasn't a cure. You know, it it was this difference between doing nothing and something, that's something, you know, a lot of people said could have been anything. Um, I really do think that exercise is a very very valuable part of mental health treatment. I genuinely think I would lose my mind if I did not run regularly, and I've got so many friends who have said very similar things. We have to be really careful with generalizations, though.
33:59 Jemma Sbeg? We have to be incredibly specific. Because the consequences of saying dance will cure my de- will cure your depression. Dance was better than any antidepressant. Running was better than any therapy treatment offered is supremely dangerous because there are people out there.
34:20 Jemma Sbeg? You know, I feel like I'm probably one of them. You're probably, we all know somebody out there who's really doing it tough and looking for a solution. And to say your antidepressants or your whatever other methods or interventions are getting in the way of the purity of of exercise and the purity of results you could get from exercise is deeply dangerous. And really just excludes other parts, you know, of the truth. Okay, let's move on from this. Let's pivot from this, should I say. Let's get into the deeper relationship between exercise and mental health beyond it is a treatment for depression or anxiety. When does exercise actually become bad for our mental health and our psychology?
35:04 Jemma Sbeg? Here is something you may not know about me. My sister is actually a professional athlete. She plays football. My mum was also a professional athlete. Oh, a elite athlete. She was a javelin thrower. She played men's basketball back in the day when they didn't have a women's team. Um, I did not get that gene, obviously. One of my best friends, also a professional athlete. I have heard stories, horror stories of how obsessive people will get. People doing ten K races when they had been warned by doxers not to do it because of heart impairments. People tearing muscles and going back to the gym the next day. The diet, the control, the obsession.
35:49 Jemma Sbeg? Everything. The stories they will tell you. There is a growing amount of research on what we could now call exercise addiction. Uncontrolled excessive exercise that persists even when it causes you harm. That behavioral pattern is very similar to other addictions. There's a bit of controversy as to whether we could call it an addiction, but I think, I think it is. Um, a massive reason being, it works on very similar neurological levels and biological levels. Exercise has this amazing potential to change our mood. It provides this rare combination of things, which is immediate relief and measurable progress, as well as social reinforcement and moral validation.
36:32 Jemma Sbeg? For somebody who feels lost, for somebody who feels powerless, you know. Ecstasy, heroin, might not be their drug of choice. Exercise very easily could be, because it gives you something to focus on. If you have all these areas in your life that feel uncontrollable, relationships, work, family, money. Exercise can become the domain where control feels possible. This isn't inherently bad, but it can become dangerous when that attempt at gaining control becomes compulsive. A lot of exercise addiction research that is, you know, coming out at the moment, really highlights the overlap between exercise and body image issues and exercise and eating disorders.
37:17 Jemma Sbeg? And the fact that you lose the joy for progress, it's about management, it's about shame, it's about self-worth, it's about control. Because of this, like, exercise can become a way that somebody manages their emotions. Yes, it can also become the way that people manage their identity. You know, you feel panicked, you feel guilty, you feel low, you feel bad about yourself. Exercise is the emotional regulator. And when it becomes the only method for that, it becomes really confining. Because it will, like, life will eventually interrupt it.
37:57 Jemma Sbeg? You know, when you experience illness, injury, travel, you have caring responsibilities, school, grief, burnout. And you cannot stick to the rigid schedule anymore. If your emotional stability depends on never missing a session, you are building mental health on a very rocky foundation. The thing is, exercise and self-esteem have this very complicated relationship, right? On one hand, exercise can really encourage self-esteem because it improves, like, it improves mastery, which we know is very psychologically important. It improves competence, it improves agency, all things that give us a real identity boost.
38:39 Jemma Sbeg? All things that are very important. It also improves trust in yourself, like, look, I can rely on myself to do this, I can rely on myself to be strong. Research supports this. It supports the positive link between self-esteem and physical activity.
38:55 Jemma Sbeg? However, sometimes it goes too far. And it becomes the only thing that makes us feel good about ourselves. Not just the only thing that makes us feel good about ourselves emotionally, but physically. And that is when it begins to worsen self-esteem because it becomes a performance of worth. It might feel like exercise only counts if you are the best at something. Or if you are feeling like you need to pass out at the end. Or if you are getting certain times, hitting certain reps. Progress is only progress if it is perfect. Another common thought that begins to bubble up is that rest or rest days are lazy.
39:36 Jemma Sbeg? Which, if you think about it, is, you know, a deeper topic about our relationship with slowing down. But in these mindsets, really, exercise becomes a form of conditional self-acceptance. It becomes this thing whereby you have to earn feeling good about yourself. This self-acceptance, much like the kind of emotional regulation that comes from exercise, never sticks around for too long because the goalpost will constantly move. Especially if it also becomes tied in with how you see yourself physically. If it is a method of changing physical form,
40:15 Jemma Sbeg? and society's ideal physical form is always changing, like you are never going to be happy. And no matter how much control exercise gives you, because again, the goalpost always changes. Okay, let's move on from this a little bit and talk about early experiences with exercise and how they linger, how they hurt or help our relationship with movement. This is the thing I'm deeply fascinated by because many people's relationship with exercise, for a lot of us, was formed like way before social media, at least if like you are in your twenties, mid to late early twenties. Often, we experience exercise at school or like with family as our first experience and.
41:01 Jemma Sbeg? Literally the split that I see in society between people who loved P E and people who hated P E also tends to split like how adult love of exercise versus our hatred like it genuinely so much of it comes down to this like childhood experience. And if you are sitting there being like, I've never been able to love exercise the way that I thought I could or the way that others could, it is worth having a look back at those times. In twenty twenty two, researchers from Middlesex University published a qualitative piece of research, which essentially did just this, they had like, I don't know how many participants, I think it was like hundreds of thousands. Oh, hundreds or thousands, not hundreds of thousands. And it basically was like,
41:45 Jemma Sbeg? what did you think about P E class? Were you embarrassed? Did you have fun? Were you always picked? Were you not picked? Consistently, they found negative memories linger into adulthood. And it shaped how people felt in exercise later on. If they would go into a group class and and they felt judged, they would never go back. Um, if they went to a run club and they felt like left behind or they didn't have the right shoes, like they would exit, they wouldn't wanna be there. And this is not surprising. What is happening in those moments, in those moments of shame, is that people feel judged and they feel insecure about their ability.
42:27 Jemma Sbeg? They feel shame about their bodies. They feel shame in comparison to their to their peers. And we know that shame is one of the most powerful motivators, especially for stopping something and especially for feeling like this isn't, this isn't for me, this isn't something that I'm gonna do with my life. If you learnt that exercise, you know, equated to being embarrassed in your body, well, you know, you're never going to instinctively wanna do it. You're never going to feel like it's something that naturally. Kind of comes across your plate. This is why people, a lot of people out there can logically understand the benefits of exercise. And still dread it, still fear it, still hate the idea of it.
43:12 Jemma Sbeg? So this is how I think we regain that healthy relationship to exercise. This is why it is so important to do exercise you love. I personally think a large part of our relationship to exercise in our teen years and our early, like very early twenties, is exercise as self punishment. Most of us have not yet formed this idea that movement is freedom or movement is privilege. Often what we do is we exercise in the way that we think is gonna mold our body into the thing that is trending at the time. You really have to find autonomy and delight if you want
43:52 Jemma Sbeg? to be good at exercise, if you wanna feel good about exercise, if you wanna get those psychological benefits. Because there's evidence that pushing yourself to an extreme level, time after time, pushing yourself to do things your body doesn't wanna do and doesn't feel capable of before it is ready, like genuinely can sometimes reverse some of the positive impacts of exercise. There is an initial boost of being like, wow, look at me, I can do hard things. There is the initial circulatory boost, the initial respiratory boost, the initial physical boost. But if you perform any behavior, exercise included, out of hatred,
44:36 Jemma Sbeg? the psychological benefit of it and the emotional benefit of it is always going to be underscored by that shame and is always going to be underscored by that pain. If you do exercise that you enjoy, even if it is not as strenuous, you are more likely to keep going with it, you are more likely to set those benchmarks, you are more likely to avoid all or nothing thinking and the all or nothing spiral that sends you into a period of exercise abstinence.
45:09 Speaker 07 OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.
45:36 Jemma Sbeg? This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over 14 years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on, and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is. Lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favorite gym clothing at gymshark.com.
46:14 Speaker 04 This is Troy Millings. As someone who travels a lot for work, I really appreciate a premium airport experience. With the Delta SkyMiles Reserve Business American Express Card, it truly feels like you can have it all. For a limited time, new Delta SkyMiles Reserve Business Card members can earn 200,000 bonus miles, the highest miles offered this year. Card members can also enjoy 15 visits to the Delta Sky Club each medallion year when flying Delta, and you can unlock unlimited Delta Sky Club access after spending $75,000 in purchases on your card during a calendar year. Those are benefits you can get behind. You also get four one-time guest passes each medallion year, so you can bring a friend or colleague along.
46:57 Speaker 04 15 Sky Club visits plus four guest passes? That's up to $950 in annual value. Value estimate based on a $50 per visit rate to purchase additional visits or bring a guest to the Delta Sky Club. It's the kind of premium access that helps you feel right at home and at ease no matter where you're headed. Apply today at www.delta.com/podcast. Offer ends November 4th, 2026. Minimum spending requirements and terms apply.
47:28 Speaker 06 Hey, this is Mario Lopez from All Mario Lopez Daily Podcast. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability.
47:36 Speaker 02 And it starts with a great deal on an all wheel drive Camry Corolla Cross or a Corolla sedan with the latest features in tech. Or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or adventure ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops. While Toyota's legendary resale value means you could get more at traded. So get a great deal today and great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.
48:04 Speaker 06 Your business operates under pressure and you need control over your data. But IBM research shows only 9% of companies have real oversight of their technology. IBM's open hybrid cloud approach is designed to give you visibility with built in governance tools, data sovereignty and compliance reporting. It's another way IBM helps you stay in control of your data. Let's create smarter business. IBM. Visit ibm.com to learn more.
48:34 Jemma Sbeg? A great way to decipher what exercise might be your exercise is to think about why you're doing it and why you enjoy it. Maybe you like walking because you listen to a podcast while you're doing it. Maybe you like dancing because it feels expressive. Maybe you like swimming because it's the only time you can focus. Maybe you like strength training because it makes you feel strong.
48:57 Jemma Sbeg? If you genuinely are doing an exercise and you are sitting on that Pilates mat or you are sitting behind that barbell and the entire time you're like, this sucks. Find another exercise, like there is a million classes. The amount of videos I see of people doing the most ridiculously funny, I will admit, but kind of like seemingly very fun exercises. It's astounding. There is something for everybody. I literally saw, you know what I've been seeing a lot is those people with those moon boots that have like trampolines on the bottom. People doing like trapeze exercise. You know what class I do at the moment that I freaking love? Is like Pilates in a sauna.
49:40 Jemma Sbeg? Fitness, health and fitness, health and wellness is a billion dollar, maybe even at this point trillion dollar money making machine. You can find, I promise, an exercise you enjoy more than running. Or you enjoy more than, I don't know. I don't want to say like specific workouts, but more than like weight workouts or like high hit rep workouts.
50:03 Jemma Sbeg? I also think we need to get out of this mindset that if you're not amazing at something, if you're not dying at the gym every day, every weekend, like you're lazy. What causes us to believe that? What's the danger of that? I know a lot of times where, you know, we're held back by this thought of like, well, if I'm not doing this very well, like, is my body feeling it? Or if I'm not doing it how everybody else is doing it, is it even worth it? Or am I embarrassing myself by showing up in this environment where I know I'm the one who knows the least? This comes down to everything.
50:41 Jemma Sbeg? The impact of comparison, social media, childhood shame, perfectionism, all or nothing thinking. I need you to realise that nobody cares. Nobody cares. And your body is for you. And if you find enjoyment through movement, even if it's the wrong kind of movement, even if people don't think you're doing it right, even if you're not doing it to the level that everybody else is doing, it does not matter. Your enjoyment and the fact that you are doing it is the only thing that does. Going slow, especially if you don't exercise regularly or if you're getting back into it, is the best way to go far.
51:23 Jemma Sbeg? There was a study from the Lancet found that just five extra minutes of exercise and thirty minutes less sitting time each day will help you live longer. Brisk walks five minutes a day was a, that was a reduction, I think, in ten percent of premature deaths across a hundred and thirty five thousand people. That is huge and it just goes to show us that exercise doesn't need to be this huge overhaul life commitment. All it requires is a consistent commitment to your wellbeing, to see the psychological impact, to see the neurological impact, the emotional impact, the physical impact.
52:03 Jemma Sbeg? If you do not let your body guide you in a way that is going to be sustainable and healthy, if you exercise as a form of self punishment rather than self respect, I actually just think that all of those benefits are removed in an instant. You have to find the exercise you love, the exercise you enjoy, make it part of your routine as a form of self-care. Putting yourself in an exercise routine that you like, even if it's not as physically demanding as one you don't.
52:38 Jemma Sbeg? Personally, I actually think that's better for you, if it means that you are going. Okay, this has been a long episode. If you're listening to this episode at the gym, by the way, or on a run, leave a comment. I need to know. I D M me. I need to know if, because it'd be, I don't know, kind of fourth wall-y, kind of breaking the dimension here. If you're learning about what's happening in your body whilst you're doing that activity. But to summarize again, to summarize this episode, exercise feels good for a lot of reasons. It is not just endorphins. We know it's also endocannabinoids. It's also the pain system. It's also s- somatic release.
53:20 Jemma Sbeg? Physical representation of emotional anger, trauma, pain that is let out through this process. It is the tangible benchmarks that exercise allows us to set. It is somatic synchronized movement. It is optic flow. Over time, exercise, regular exercise, consistent exercise is one of the, if not best things, other than like not drinking and getting a good night's sleep, you can do for your brain. That hippocampal volume statistic, you could literally, even into old age, reverse aging by one to two years. And that's probably more, gonna be greater the more you do it. Is it better than an antidepressant?
54:03 Jemma Sbeg? No. Is it as good as an antidepressant? Probably not either. But it is a very important method for managing wellbeing. It is never gonna be a replacement because it just, it doesn't work that way. It just, it's just not how exercise and the, yeah, the neurotransmitters and the chemicals it releases operate in the same way as, you know, a biological explanation for depression or anxiety or mental health operates. As for the role of dancing, yeah, pretty cool. One of the most important exercises. Not just like emotionally and physically, but also like socially. So as to whether like going to the club is a form of exercise, I think that one's up for debate. But in terms of the
54:47 Jemma Sbeg? emotional and social impacts, I think it totally counts. Also important to remember when exercise can become toxic and can become dangerous. There is a difference between repetition and doing lo- doing exercise because you love it. And compulsion and doing exercise because it's a coping tool. Remember, like, that will just, I think having that relationship to exercise will just further. Further integrate some pretty shameful beliefs about your body and your worth and. How worth and self-esteem is tied to looks and tied to your abilities. So that is something you're dealing with.
55:30 Jemma Sbeg? I will definitely leave some links down below. I feel like I actually am hearing about this so much more. Exercise addiction, exercise is self punishment. I think it's something a lot more people have experience with. Then you may think, then you definitely may think, but it's definitely something we can change. And if you've had negative experiences with exercise in the past, whether that's been because, I don't know, you were bullied over it. It was a painful experience for you. It was a boring experience for you. Just like getting back out there and doing a little bit, finding something you love, trying out as many random ass like. Classes as you can is like the best thing you can do. With all that in mind, that is me done for the day. Thank you for listening this far. If you made it this far.
56:15 Jemma Sbeg? Leave a little comment down below on Spotify. What is your favorite, perhaps most ridiculous exercise class? Um, I already gave you guys mine. So if you guys are in London and you see an advertisement for a. Pilates class in the sauna, know that I'm probably there and you should definitely come and join me because it will kill you. Um. I will say, one of my friends did pass out in the class the other day, uh, and I felt incredibly. Terrible for bringing her in. Um, and actually the instructors did not give a single hoot. So maybe, yeah. Maybe it would be best to avoid unless you really like to suffer through your exercise, which sometimes honestly I do enjoy. So I know I give it shit, but.
56:58 Jemma Sbeg? Sometimes it's fun to like really see how far you can can push yourself. Thank you as always to our researcher, Libby Colbert, for her assistance and her great research skills and her help with this episode. Make sure that if you are listening, you you give an episode on Netflix a try. You go and watch us over there just so you can say that you've done it. Make sure you're following us on Instagram as well, so you know when new episodes come out and you get the summaries and you get to see when we're doing events near you. If you want to come and meet other listeners of the psychology of your twenties, if you want to see what we're up to, that is where you can find out all about that. We also have a Substack if that is, if you prefer reading over listening or over watching. I'll leave everything in the description, but again, thank you for listening to this
57:41 Jemma Sbeg? episode. I hope it enlightened you, but until next time, be safe, be kind, be gentle with yourself. We will talk very, very soon.
57:54 Jemma Sbeg? This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over fourteen years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is, lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favorite gym clothing at gymshark.com.
58:31 Speaker 02 With ChatGPT, you can do more than get answers. You can get things done, whether you're leading a big project, planning an elaborate trip, or trying to balance work and life. ChatGPT can help. Give it a goal, plus things like files, notes, or project plans. Develop a trip itinerary with daily updates or create a prioritized schedule, so you can spend less energy sorting out the details and more on bringing your biggest ideas to life. Get started at chatgpt.com.
58:59 Speaker 04 This is Troy Millings. If you travel for work like I do, you know every trip is an opportunity to get more from the miles you're already earning. Whether you're heading to your next client meeting or catching a flight home, those miles can go a long way. For a limited time, new Delta SkyMiles Business Card members can earn 200,000 bonus miles, the highest miles offered this year with the Delta SkyMiles Reserve Business American Express Card. Apply today at www.delta.com/podcast. Offer ends November 4, 2026. Minimum spending requirements and terms apply.
59:33 Speaker 05 Hey, it's Covino and Rich Davis from Covino and Rich. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it starts with a great deal on an off-road ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's most capable and longest-lasting trucks. Combining power for work, tech for adventures, and style in between. Built on reputation for quality and reliability, Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which can mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. So get a great deal today and great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for more. Toyota, let's go places.
1:00:08 Speaker 02 Hey, I'm Niall Rogers. This fall, I'll be driving across the country, meeting some of today's coolest and most fascinating artists. We'll explore the stories before the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the moment where it all began. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
1:00:40 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
Previous 398. 5 ways to get unstuck in your 20s Next 400. 15 things everyone should do in their 20s Page updated October 31, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated