E226: Zara Larsson: How To Stop Caring What Others Think!

Zara Larsson is an international singer song writer, amassing over 8 billion streams across all major streaming platforms. Since she won a national televised talent contest in her native Sweden aged 10, Zara has always wanted to be ‘bigger than Elvis’ and ‘more famous than Beyonce’. Saying the goal is ambitious is understating it, but she’s single-mindedly pursued it ever since. Chasing the top for Zara is a way of chasing life. Outspoken about her beliefs and uncompromising in her art - for Zara there are no half-measures and no shortcuts. She’s in the game to be the best. Zara is promoting her new single, ‘Can’t tame her’, which is out now. Her new album is nearly ready, too. In one of the most honest conversations we’ve had with a major public figure, Zara certainly doesn’t hold back on how she got to where she is, and where she’s headed next… Topics: Intro Early years Desire to be famous Pressure as an artist Ambitions Life under the microscope Your struggles Being scared of death Public validation Being treated badly by men Advice to people who look up to you Your new album What does success look like for you in 10 years? The last guest's question Zara: Instagram - https://bit.ly/41CLRg3 Twitter - https://bit.ly/3kEkodn Watch the episodes on Youtube: https://g2ul0.app.link/3kxINCANKsb Follow: Instagram: https://bit.ly/3CXkF0d Twitter: https://bit.ly/3wBA6bA Linkedin: https://bit.ly/3z3CSYM Telegram: https://g2ul0.app.link/SBExclusiveCommun Sponsors: Huel: https://g2ul0.app.link/G4RjcdKNKsb Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I'm gonna be more famous than Elvis Presley, Whitney, and Beyonce.

• 0:04Steven Bartlett?

  Jesus Christ, what are your ambitions, honestly?

• 0:06Speaker 00

  World domination.

• 0:11Speaker 00

  Over 5 billion dreams worldwide.

• 0:13Speaker 02

  And an international pop star.

• 0:17Steven Bartlett?

  Have you always wanted to be famous?

• 0:19Speaker 00

  Since I first understood what fame was. The hours on top of hours on top of hours that I spent performing in the mirror. I guess it does come back to some sort of wish for validation and just love.

• 0:33Steven Bartlett?

  I read this quote the other day, it was like, "Those that care about clapping also really care about the booze." Can you relate?

• 0:39Speaker 00

  It's almost like a self-harming thing. Especially, I think I am looking for that negativity if I have a bad day. I think I also base a lot of my self-worth and self-esteem on how well I am performing. The fact that I want to prove to people I don't know.

• 0:58Steven Bartlett?

  It's a bit [BLEEP] tough, isn't it?

• 1:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01Steven Bartlett?

  Whose opinion could hurt you the most? You've had some controversial tweets, right?

• 1:05Speaker 00

  Yeah. I'm not even trying. I am that person. Take me to [BLEEP] jail. I'm gonna be disrespectful every time. That 20-second video of my silly opinion became national news for like a week.

• 1:17Steven Bartlett?

  Did you like that?

• 1:30Steven Bartlett?

  Zara.

• 1:31Speaker 00

  Yes?

• 1:32Steven Bartlett?

  You're a unique individual.

• 1:35Speaker 00

  You think?

• 1:35Steven Bartlett?

  In many ways, yeah.

• 1:36Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:37Steven Bartlett?

  Really unique, you know, I study people before they sit down with me and I couldn't quite figure you out, I've got to be honest. Sometimes, you know, I look through everything I read about their early upbringing, where they're from. And with you, there's a couple of areas that I haven't quite figured out yet, so that's what I'm gonna try and do.

• 1:53Speaker 00

  Interesting.

• 1:54Steven Bartlett?

  But I'll ask you the question.

• 1:57Steven Bartlett?

  Based on the person sitting in front of me today, what do I need to know about your earliest years, your earliest context, to understand this person that's sitting in front of me?

• 2:06Speaker 00

  Like how I was as a kid, basically?

• 2:09Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, just give me all of it, the context, the environment, the influence.

• 2:12Speaker 00

  Always a showgirl.

• 2:14Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah?

• 2:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, I've always loved to entertain my family, like my friends, just being, you know, like a small person. And just always loved having people.

• 2:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think they entertain them, like having them watch me. I don't know. I think that's why I'm an artist today. It's just a part of who who I've always been and who I am as a person. Um, loves to laugh. Quite an unserious kid, I would say. Um, very.

• 2:59Speaker 00

  I don't know if I would love to have myself as a child, you know? Didn't really listen. Very stubborn, yeah. But.

• 3:13Speaker 00

  I think quite funny to be around. Yeah, it's hard. It's, yeah, yeah, definitely, I would say. Always been quite confident.

• 3:24Steven Bartlett?

  Attention seeker?

• 3:25Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 3:27Steven Bartlett?

  Seeking validation?

• 3:28Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 3:30Steven Bartlett?

  You know, when you say you were entertaining people, what did that do for you when you were younger? When you were, who were you trying to entertain? And when you entertained them?

• 3:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:38Steven Bartlett?

  What did that do for you?

• 3:39Speaker 00

  I think even just myself. Or maybe I was thinking about, you know, myself in the future of, because I'm, I'm, I'm thinking just the hours on top of hours on top of hours that I spent just performing in the mirror. And as I was doing that, I guess I was also thinking or imagining like a crowd, you know? Um, was looking at Beyonce or Christina Aguilera or Whitney and Celine. Like those were my four girls growing up that I just really, really wanted to be like. And I guess it does come back to some sort of,

• 4:18Speaker 00

  you know, wish for validation and.

• 4:23Speaker 00

  And just love, and I just crave that a lot more than most people. Which is funny, you know, because I feel like my mom and my dad have always been giving me a lot of love, a lot of attention. They've supported me throughout everything, um, always been there for me. Looked at whatever I'm doing, you know, so. In the like hobby psychological way of like analyzing myself. There's no real reason for it, if I would, if I would put it that way. Um, I guess some people just have a lot of energy. And, um, you know, there needs to be some entertainers in the world.

• 5:06Steven Bartlett?

  Why you?

• 5:09Speaker 00

  I don't know. I just really enjoy it. I really like it. I really like for people to feel good. Um, I also think there's like a a fine line between being a people pleaser and, um, entertaining others by being yourself, if you know what I mean. Like, I've never really been scared of conflict. I don't feel like that's true. Um, I don't really mind stating my opinion. Always been very opinionated. I remember thinking that my parents never filmed me and my sister growing up, you know, on like video cameras and that.

• 5:51Speaker 00

  We have such little like documentation of, um, my childhood. And then when my parents were moving to Rome, we found these like boxes of, of videos and it was so fun to see how, you know, how it's like be in front of our table, dinner table, it was just a kind of like the living room just could have no furnitures because that was the stage. And after every dinner, it was like, showtime, you know? And, uh, it's just, it's just a natural part of who I am, I think.

• 6:22Steven Bartlett?

  There's a bit of a, um, it almost seems contradictory that someone like yourself could be so clearly confident. But also, uh, people pleaser. One

• 6:34Speaker 00

  I know, isn't it?

• 6:35Steven Bartlett?

  Do you know what I mean? Someone, you think of people pleasers as big, slightly low confidence and that search for validation is, you know, comes from them pleasing someone else, but that seems to be

• 6:43Speaker 00

  But we have two words in Swedish. I don't know if you guys have this, but it's like I guess it's more confidence versus self-esteem.

• 6:51Steven Bartlett?

  Mm hmm.

• 6:52Speaker 00

  In a way, you know. So, or um, yeah, like you can have self-confidence, like I'm very confident in what I do in my work. I know I'm talented. I know I'm good. I know I can perform. Um, and professionally, like all of that, but then maybe the self-esteem part. Oh. You know, I don't know. I don't know. Um.

• 7:20Steven Bartlett?

  What do you think of yourself?

• 7:21Speaker 00

  You know, I think, I think it goes up and down like it does for most people. I have certain days where I feel like I'm on top of the world. Nothing can stop me. I am unbeatable. And then other days where I just feel very small and um, and fragile and um. It goes a little up and down, but in general, you know, I think I also base a lot of my self-worth and self-esteem on how well I am performing in my, you know, professional life. Maybe they're a bit linked. And um, if I wasn't doing

• 7:58Speaker 00

  what I do like as a singer, I would probably still be in some sort of

• 8:06Speaker 00

  public eye. Maybe acting or maybe just having a podcast. Or, I don't know, like something to entertain people still. Or like, connect with people.

• 8:21Steven Bartlett?

  I think you'd be a great co-host.

• 8:23Speaker 00

  Co-host? Oh, amazing, yeah.

• 8:25Steven Bartlett?

  I don't think you'd settle for being a co-host, would you?

• 8:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm like, give it my, I want my show.

• 8:29Steven Bartlett?

  You want your own show, yeah, yeah, okay. Well, fine, whatever. Um, when I, when I was reading through everything about your, your earliest years, I was, I was almost looking for some incident or something that had caused this desire for validation and I just couldn't find it. Your parents seem lovely.

• 8:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:46Steven Bartlett?

  Seems like you grew up in a, you know, a great home.

• 8:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, it is funny, isn't it?

• 8:49Steven Bartlett?

  Have you always wanted to be famous?

• 8:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, actually.

• 8:55Speaker 00

  I think since I was, since I first understood what fame was, I mean, I always said like, I'm gonna be more famous than Elvis Presley.

• 9:03Steven Bartlett?

  Jesus Christ.

• 9:03Speaker 00

  I know, right?

• 9:04Steven Bartlett?

  That's a high expectation.

• 9:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, like, I know, and actually now when I'm older, I, I don't think anybody wants to be as famous as Elvis Presley. Or more famous, like, it definitely, I obviously haven't reached that point in my life, but I do think it is also a, a form of prison, like, you can actually really go out and meet people and, and, and like, connect with people because they already have a version of who you are in their head, like, you're never meeting someone for the first time, you know? And, uh, how you, like, manage, just go through life, I also hate being like

• 9:48Speaker 00

  misunderstood, and I hate when people, funny enough, like, have you know, opinions about me that really isn't connecting with the person that I am, but they would never know that because they don't know me, and just having, I think the older I, I get, the more I realize, like, there's also a lot of things that are happening when you're as famous as Elvis Presley, that isn't very nice, you know?

• 10:16Steven Bartlett?

  What, how are you misunderstood?

• 10:18Speaker 00

  Just like, it's not all glitter and glamour, it's not all like, playing for a sold-out, uh, arena or stadium, and then going and like, putting on a nice outfit, and then you go and like, do a red carpet, like, there's, there's other things behind that, that might not seem as fun, like

• 10:38Speaker 00

  not being able to have a private life, just to start there, you know? Or somebody always having opinions about your private life, because also, you know, especially in this time, like, back in the days, at least there were no social media, or anything like that, and these times, I feel like, we have this parasocial relationship with followers, where they feel like um, they would know who you are, because they follow you on like, TikTok or Instagram or Twitter, where you write your opinions about stuff, or just like, I had a great bacon sandwich for breakfast, or like, personal stuff, you know? You would never hear Whitney Houston be like

• 11:19Speaker 00

  Post a selfie, you know? But now because you kind of have to do that to connect with people and be like, I'm human like. That part wasn't a thing before and also there's pros and cons with that, I think, cause um. I think there is a really nice part in in being relatable and like connecting with your audience and having that sort of relationship. But there's also something really sexy about like the the artists back in the days that were, they were untouchable. That's why they were superstars. You you you couldn't get on their level, like you couldn't like hop on their live.

• 12:02Speaker 00

  And be like, I I love you, you like your makeup looks great, like you couldn't do that. Um, and I guess the most artists that come in this time, I feel like maybe. Like Beyonce could be like the last generation. That doesn't have to like be on TikTok, for example, you know?

• 12:27Steven Bartlett?

  Mm hmm.

• 12:29Speaker 00

  I don't know, but I also love, sometimes I'm like, oh, I'm gonna be mysterious, but I like, it's not who I am. I'm not very mysterious. I am quite, um.

• 12:42Speaker 00

  I do like to show who I am. And a part of me like would love to be a YouTuber and just vlog, like, hey, come with me on a promo date. Like it's something about that that I do love, but it creates like a a a little maybe strange relationship sometimes with your followers. But I feel like my followers are quite funny and that we have good banter even.

• 13:11Steven Bartlett?

  That journey of understanding who you are and having the conviction to be yourself.

• 13:15Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 13:16Steven Bartlett?

  How's that journey been? Especially when you're, you know, you're in the industry you're in. There's a lot of temptation to be someone else. To look like a certain thing, to behave in a certain way. What's that journey been like for you since you were like five years old dancing in the in the front room? To where the person sat in front of me now, twenty five years old? Journey of like being authentically who you are and?

• 13:37Speaker 00

  I don't know. I think, you know, life is like a chain of events. So you do get inspired by, or just like influenced by a lot of stuff, just living your life. You don't have to be in the public eye or like in front of a camera at all. Obviously, you're gonna be influenced by the people you meet and what you see. And just how, you can even see how like, just the lingo of people, just sorry for speaking about TikTok so much. But just like how people are talking, the words they're using, that might come from a certain group of people at first. But then they bring it online and it becomes like saturated. And then all of a sudden, everybody starts speaking like that and everybody starts wearing the same thing.

• 14:17Speaker 00

  And everybody starts like all of that. So like, I think I am struggling.

• 14:23Steven Bartlett?

  Have you ever lost yourself in that?

• 14:24Speaker 00

  No, but I don't feel like, I don't feel like I've lost, I'm more lost or less lost than anyone else in my age. Who are just like navigating through life.

• 14:38Speaker 00

  And then obviously, you know, I am being, um, I guess you can say judged. But like, people will have opinions about maybe the stuff I'm releasing, like my music and stuff like that. But it's really hard to say, I think. I don't feel like I've, I've lost, um, myself very much. I have, I feel like I've mostly been like positively influenced most times by stuff.

• 15:13Steven Bartlett?

  You know, earlier you said how your self-esteem can sometimes be attached to your professional.

• 15:20Speaker 00

  Just performance, yeah.

• 15:21Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, that's a dangerous game to play.

• 15:24Speaker 00

  I know.

• 15:24Steven Bartlett?

  You know, cause if you're, it's like being on a roller coaster where you, you know, cause life is gonna go up and down. And if your self-esteem goes up and down with your like hits or your like records or your streams.

• 15:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:35Steven Bartlett?

  That's not, you know.

• 15:36Speaker 00

  No, it's not a good thing. And I felt like I really felt that when I was releasing my um last album Poster Girl. That's also why it took like four years between So Good, which was my first international album, and to Poster Girl because I was so pressured into having like the same amount of streams and the same amount of like commercial success that So Good had, that I just in a way forgot that I love music and like I think it's so fun and I'm doing it because it brings me joy. And I I lost that a little bit in the process of making Poster Girl because I was just

• 16:19Speaker 00

  so scared of like, not only myself that I would, you know, do a better album than the one before, but like what will other people think of me if I don't perform as well? Like that was a really big thing that I had in my mind. And now when I release that, it's just kinda like,

• 16:40Speaker 00

  whew, you know? Um, and now I'm back to making this album, which I feel like it's a lot more fun or I've had a lot more fun creating it because the pressure of it. You just gotta remind yourself at all times that it's like,

• 16:56Speaker 00

  like you say, like my worth, even as an artist, isn't based on um numbers, although it kinda is.

• 17:09Speaker 00

  You know, it's like a tricky, like of course I wanna perform well, like I wanna be a mainstream artist. I wanna sell, I wanna stream. Um, but yeah, my my worth as a person is not necessarily tied to that. But you just gotta differentiate like.

• 17:27Speaker 00

  The professional side and the private side.

• 17:30Steven Bartlett?

  Not easy.

• 17:30Speaker 00

  But it is hard, yeah, it is hard when such a big part of my identity is being an artist, specifically, you know, like singing and like because I've been doing that for such a long time, that it's it's just like in my DNA and who am I if I'm not like performing or singing?

• 17:49Steven Bartlett?

  Who are you if you're not performing or singing?

• 17:51Speaker 00

  Um, I don't know, never tried it.

• 17:57Steven Bartlett?

  You're a vlogger.

• 18:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, in my mind, for sure. No, I think, um, I'm like really, really lucky though, like I have a really good family and have really good friends. And in general, like I'm not a sad person, I'm very happy. I really like my life, but I've been doing this professionally, like releasing music since I was fifteen. So that's like ten years, which is kind of crazy considering the fact that I'm I'm twenty five and I've been doing this for a decade and it's just, you know, a part of who I am. Like I don't, I don't know what I would do or be if I didn't do music.

• 18:40Steven Bartlett?

  What age were you when you would have responded to the question, what do you want to be when you grow up with the answer?

• 18:45Speaker 00

  Uh, I, I, maybe when I was like four or five, you know, you wanted to be like an ice princess.

• 18:51Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 18:51Speaker 00

  Maybe, but after that, it was just, I want to be a singer.

• 18:56Steven Bartlett?

  From what age?

• 18:57Speaker 00

  Five, yeah, five, six. And I think it also went hand in hand with the fact that singing is so easy and it's almost like a primal thing that humans have been doing throughout, I guess, history of like mankind, you know what I mean? Like singing is such a It's almost like a spiritual thing, almost, specifically like in a choir together with people like going to concerts. Or even sporting events and you sing this chants and it's like a it's something that's happening in you when you sing. And I think it's also really easy to appreciate someone singing.

• 19:37Speaker 00

  Um, and I mean, it's harder to be like a really, really good dancer at five. Or like, I'm gonna do a Shakespeare monologue and I'm like, I'm gonna prove to you why I'm so good at acting at five. But singing, if a child have a really good voice and everyone's like, oh, my God, you're amazing. And like you get the attention from that from a really early age because you're just naturally good at it. Then I guess you just keep going with that.

• 20:06Steven Bartlett?

  Isn't there such a thing as parents giving too much validation?

• 20:10Speaker 00

  I don't know. I don't think so. I don't think so. What do you mean? Will they be like, shut up?

• 20:15Steven Bartlett?

  No, but just like too much, they're like, you are a star. You're amazing. The grand you walk. And then you go into the world and you're like, what the fuck? Why aren't you treating me?

• 20:25Speaker 00

  I mean, that's like watching some of the, you know, idol or X Factor auditions and you're like, wow. You have been told by your parents that you're really good your whole life and then they go on the show and they don't perform that good. My mom and I, we we joke about that sometimes that she's like, you know, when I grew up that she was just thinking like, is she really good? Or is she just my child? You know, like, like, is this good? Or do I just love you so much and I think you're like the most amazing person?

• 20:56Steven Bartlett?

  How how um, you said Elvis earlier on, but at your very core, right? Like when you're alone in the shower or whatever, you're thinking about your ambitions in life. What are your ambitions, honestly?

• 21:07Speaker 00

  World domination.

• 21:14Speaker 00

  No, I want like a number one, I want like number one album, I want like a, you know what my main goal is?

• 21:21Steven Bartlett?

  Stadium tour.

• 21:22Speaker 00

  Yup, you already know it.

• 21:23Steven Bartlett?

  I read about it.

• 21:24Speaker 00

  Yeah. It is, cuz that really proves like people wanna come and experience you live. And there is something about a live performance that, you know, if I could choose one thing about this whole thing as being an artist, it would be like to perform, to perform live, for sure.

• 21:42Steven Bartlett?

  So to summarize your, when you say world domination, do you mean that? Like what you, like, what is it you want? You want a stadium tour, I get that, you want a number one album? In the US?

• 21:54Speaker 00

  Everywhere.

• 21:54Steven Bartlett?

  Everywhere?

• 21:57Steven Bartlett?

  And then what? Like, is that, will then you then be happy?

• 22:00Speaker 00

  And then we take the helicopter and we fly out.

• 22:02Steven Bartlett?

  And then you're gonna fly out in a helicopter?

• 22:06Speaker 00

  I don't know, I think.

• 22:07Steven Bartlett?

  Who do you wanna be like? When you think about levels.

• 22:10Speaker 00

  Beyonce.

• 22:11Steven Bartlett?

  Beyonce.

• 22:12Speaker 00

  But also, you know, coming back to that, like,

• 22:18Speaker 00

  like, how is it being, what is it like to be Beyonce? Like, what is that life like? I don't think we even can imagine that.

• 22:29Speaker 00

  I honestly don't know, cuz it also,

• 22:34Speaker 00

  there's something about, like, I, I don't know, imagine being just like on top of the world and being like the celebrity of celebrities and everyone's just like, I think even, even people who are not specifically like her fan would be on their best behavior if she walked into a room, you know? I honestly don't know, but there's also a beauty in like, maybe I'll never get there, but there's something about having a goal and a dream and working towards that. And then maybe in 10 years, I'll just like change my mind.

• 23:08Steven Bartlett?

  Do you think you'll get there?

• 23:10Speaker 00

  I have a hard time to see that happening, but it's not impossible. Maybe I'll feel like.

• 23:17Speaker 00

  I've done everything I want to do in music and maybe I want to move on to.

• 23:23Steven Bartlett?

  Vlogging.

• 23:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:26Steven Bartlett?

  You know, people often find it difficult to express such grand ambitions because they're scared about what people will think of them.

• 23:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:34Steven Bartlett?

  What's your, what's your thoughts on that? You know, it's, it's, it's actually quite refreshing for me to hear to someone go, someone go, I want all domination. Because a lot of people don't have the courage to say that out loud.

• 23:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:44Steven Bartlett?

  Cause it opens you up a little bit, right?

• 23:46Speaker 00

  It does. Yeah, I guess it does. But you know, what's the worst thing they would, people would say like, oh, that's never gonna happen. Like, okay, we'll see. It's not that deep. And I think also, you know what it is though? One thing that takes away a little bit from the fun is that I think I'm a little entitled to success. And I think, you know, if I ever, let's say, get a Grammy,

• 24:12Speaker 00

  I won't feel like, oh my God, I can't believe this is happening. It's more like, finally, you know? Like, oh, took, took long enough.

• 24:23Speaker 00

  That's what I, I think I would feel more than like, I never in a million years could have dreamed that this would have ever, no. And.

• 24:33Steven Bartlett?

  What you're saying is, right now, as you sit here, you believe that the Grammy is already basically one, you deserve it already. It's just a matter of time.

• 24:43Steven Bartlett?

  You believe that in your core, yeah?

• 24:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:45Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 24:45Speaker 00

  I think it's just like, maybe just a matter of, of, of putting in the work and just keep working and working and working and working and working. Cause what you really need is grit.

• 24:58Speaker 00

  No grit, right? Not grits.

• 25:01Steven Bartlett?

  Just grit.

• 25:01Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's not like the porridge.

• 25:05Speaker 00

  Grit and you just need to work for it and you need to, I read this book about grit, I think it's called grit. And they were studying a lot of like the, the, the students who went to the military, a military school here in the US.

• 25:21Steven Bartlett?

  I've read about the study, yeah.

• 25:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:24Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 25:24Speaker 00

  And.

• 25:25Steven Bartlett?

  I've read about it in my upcoming book, Diary of a C.

• 25:29Steven Bartlett?

  I wrote about the exact thing you're about to respond.

• 25:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. So like, you know, the students who graduated, because it's a hard, you know this, it's like a really hard, what is it, like a training camp?

• 25:41Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, basically.

• 25:42Speaker 00

  Over a couple of months or something. They're not like the strongest or the smartest per se. They're just the people who never give up. And that's it. But I do think it's interesting to think about, you know, talking about like success, um, that you're only successful if you do something for the rest of your life. Like, let's say I, in ten years, I do change my mind and I genuinely want to do something else, then it would look like, oh, but she failed at like being an artist or she failed at,

• 26:18Speaker 00

  you know, reaching her goals because she chose to do something different. And it's only success, or like a relationship with a person, it's only successful if you're together for the rest of your life.

• 26:31Speaker 00

  When in reality, like, that relationship or the job or the interest could have served its purpose for that chapter of your life and that amount of time in your life. And it's not less successful because of it, you know? It just means that you have another purpose now. Yeah, if that makes sense.

• 26:55Steven Bartlett?

  Makes perfect sense.

• 26:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:57Steven Bartlett?

  On that point of success, do you consider yourself to be successful as an artist now?

• 27:01Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 27:02Steven Bartlett?

  Like, if I said to you, do you got to tick a box yes or no? And the question was, I am a successful artist.

• 27:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:09Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 27:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, because like I'm doing what I love every day and I live off of it. It's like being in the MBA of artists, you know, a lot of people wants to be artists and they work really, really hard for it. And they still have to have like a little side hustle or they have to.

• 27:30Speaker 00

  I don't know, just do whatever to make ends meet because their real passion in life is not like sustaining them enough um to be able to like pay rent and that. So in that sense, I feel like I am successful. There's just obviously levels to it, but in general, like I consider myself extremely lucky and I'm I I I am very thankful for and like happy about where I am. It's just a long way to go to feel like, oh, I made it. I don't feel like I've made it. I have a lot. Yeah.

• 28:03Speaker 00

  But I'm doing what I love and that's a success.

• 28:06Steven Bartlett?

  What would you, what would it take for you to feel like you've made it?

• 28:11Speaker 00

  Maybe I'll never feel like I made it. It's a blessing and a curse.

• 28:17Speaker 00

  I don't know. Honestly, maybe I'll never feel like I made it.

• 28:22Steven Bartlett?

  I'll reframe the question then. What if, if we come back here in, you know, ten years' time?

• 28:26Speaker 00

  Okay, like when I do my stadium tour.

• 28:28Steven Bartlett?

  Then you'll feel like you've made it?

• 28:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think so.

• 28:32Steven Bartlett?

  You've just finished your stadium tour. You're thirty five years old. You walk back in here and I go, do you feel like you've made it, Zara?

• 28:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:37Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah?

• 28:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think so.

• 28:40Steven Bartlett?

  If you were to to go the other way, ten years in the other direction, back to that fifteen year old girl that released that single Uncover, and you could just whisper an area, some advice about life, success, and anything that she might have needed to hear, what would, what would you whisper?

• 28:57Speaker 00

  Life and success. For, I would say, leave him.

• 29:00Steven Bartlett?

  Leave him?

• 29:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:01Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, you were with some?

• 29:02Speaker 00

  He's not very, he sucks.

• 29:05Speaker 00

  Don't spend your years on him.

• 29:08Speaker 00

  And then I would say, just, just don't, don't overthink stuff.

• 29:13Steven Bartlett?

  You go to whisper it?

• 29:14Speaker 00

  Don't overthink stuff. It's gonna be great. Because you know what? In the very beginning of when I started to release music, that's what I did. And like, we just threw shit at the wall and then some, some was sticking on there and others didn't. And um the songs that doesn't go well, like, nobody remembers them. But the songs that do really well, people remember them. And I think it's also easier because on the scale that I was on as a fifteen year old was just being signed in Scandinavia. Um, it was a lot, it felt more like local, it felt easier. It wasn't this big machine that I had behind me where everything was supposed to, you know, internationally, like have a proper rollout and all of that. We were just like, oh, let's release some music, you know?

• 29:55Speaker 00

  And so specifically, I would just, I felt like I've said specifically like five times in this interview. I don't normally use that word. I think it's just the word of the hour. Anyways. Uh, I think, um, I, coming back to like from So Good to Poster Girl, like that time, just, just release it. Like, it's not that deep. Just release some music. Have fun. Just have fun.

• 30:19Steven Bartlett?

  And what about in terms of like happiness generally, away from your work? What, what advice would you have given to that fifteen year old girl?

• 30:25Speaker 00

  Um.

• 30:30Speaker 00

  Just keep doing you. You're doing great. Keep pissing people off. For some reason, it's like, I had, I used to have a blog actually. And whatever I wrote, whenever I wrote stuff, it would always be national news. Like I just said the other day, like, we should talk more in the cinema. And what do you think about that?

• 30:50Steven Bartlett?

  We should talk more in the cinema?

• 30:51Speaker 00

  Just like react more, like talk more.

• 30:54Steven Bartlett?

  I don't think that's the place for that.

• 30:56Speaker 00

  Okay, that's what most people thought.

• 30:58Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 31:00Steven Bartlett?

  Because you can't watch something.

• 31:02Speaker 00

  But you can whisper. You, like, I'm not, okay, so it, in my video that I did, I did like a little twenty minute video, no, twenty second. And I was like, you know, I feel like we should react more, like, we should chit chat and like.

• 31:16Steven Bartlett?

  But then you can't hear what's going on in the movie. Because if you think about it, if a hundred people are all like, "Ha, ha, ha, yeah, ha, ha, did you see that?", you're not gonna be able to hear a thing.

• 31:27Speaker 00

  But you're watching the same thing. That's why I'm saying, like, you're in this room together. Socially, you are watching the same thing. So naturally, people should react on the same.

• 31:36Steven Bartlett?

  They won't, they will they? Because they'll be like, "Oh my god, that looks like Dave." Do you know what I mean?

• 31:41Speaker 00

  Yeah. And it's funny that we have this conversation, because like, when you have a conversation like this, you can say your opinion, I can say my opinion. But on internet, it's like a one-way street. So I can say one thing, and then people are like, ah, ripping out their hair. What I wanted to say about that was that that twenty second video, like my silly opinion, became like national news for like a week straight in Sweden. I had everybody talking about it. Politicians.

• 32:09Steven Bartlett?

  You like that?

• 32:12Speaker 00

  So mocking laugh. But um, a little bit, yes, but also part of me like, like, why is this news?

• 32:21Steven Bartlett?

  But keep going.

• 32:24Speaker 00

  But it's funny, like specifically, here I go again. I think in Sweden, actually specifically Sweden.

• 32:31Steven Bartlett?

  Specifically?

• 32:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's um, ever since I was like fifteen, for some reason, everything I said became like a national debate. And um,

• 32:47Speaker 00

  that's a little strange. I think, like, why do you care so much about what I think? I'm just a girl.

• 32:53Steven Bartlett?

  But keep caring.

• 32:56Speaker 00

  And I do think it helped me um, reach the success of, because some people, like, when I started out, some people just kind of knew me as being a very opinionated person, more than an artist. And, you know, people outside of Sweden might not think of me as such, which is kind of nice in a way, because I, I, I want to see, and I want people to see me as an artist first. But,

• 33:24Speaker 00

  yeah, I

• 33:25Steven Bartlett?

  You've had some

• 33:26Speaker 00

  I think it's like a talent in itself.

• 33:28Steven Bartlett?

  It is.

• 33:28Speaker 00

  And also, still entertaining. I'm entertaining the people.

• 33:33Steven Bartlett?

  You've had some controversial tweets, right?

• 33:35Speaker 00

  Yeah. I'm not even trying. I think I knew, like, okay, I know my take on the cinema isn't gonna be like, the majority will agree, but I never thought it would be like.

• 33:46Steven Bartlett?

  I saw a couple of tweets you did.

• 33:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, but, yeah.

• 33:49Steven Bartlett?

  I wasn't sure if you liked men.

• 33:51Speaker 00

  Oh, here I am.

• 33:54Steven Bartlett?

  There was one about you being a man hater, which you, I saw that, I thought, oh, I wonder if she's gonna like me.

• 34:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think like.

• 34:04Speaker 00

  At least it gets people talking. And also, maybe I am a bit dramatic online and me saying like, I fucking hate men. When you compare that to someone saying, women deserve equal pay. Then that doesn't look as bad, next to my sweet about hating men. So in a way, I feel like the extreme-ist of certain topics like leaning that way is also doing

• 34:38Speaker 00

  just as good for the whatever movement, you know what I mean? And I think also, you know, today it isn't that controversial because I think we all know what I meant by that. With, you know, toxic masculinity and like the patriarchy in general and, and all of that.

• 34:55Steven Bartlett?

  What do you struggle with?

• 34:57Speaker 00

  Like in, in general?

• 34:58Steven Bartlett?

  In general, like what, what do you, like, what are your problem, like, what are your challenges in life?

• 35:05Speaker 00

  Getting out of bed?

• 35:08Speaker 00

  No, yes.

• 35:09Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, you mean like alarm, the alarm clock is annoying?

• 35:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm a snoozer.

• 35:17Speaker 00

  In, okay, let's think about, let's be serious.

• 35:22Speaker 00

  I just, I'm very, I have a very bad memory. So I don't really, which is on good and bad terms, like whenever I would have a fight with somebody, I just need to leave the room and I kind of forgot about it.

• 35:36Steven Bartlett?

  When was the last time you cried?

• 35:43Speaker 00

  I cried on the way to, it was like maybe a week ago. I cry every day, but just like, like a soft cry, you know? Just like you see something about.

• 35:55Steven Bartlett?

  I'm saying like a proper cry, like, you know?

• 35:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, this is weird. So I was listening to Goodbye My Lover by James Blake and I was imagining my boyfriend dying.

• 36:06Steven Bartlett?

  You were imagining?

• 36:07Speaker 00

  You're like, how sad is that?

• 36:09Steven Bartlett?

  How did he die in this imagined?

• 36:11Speaker 00

  Maybe cancer or something?

• 36:14Speaker 00

  Like a car crash? Like something maybe sudden?

• 36:17Steven Bartlett?

  And that made you cry?

• 36:18Speaker 00

  It made me cry really, really, really bad. I also was like three edibles in.

• 36:26Speaker 00

  But I was on the airplane and I I've heard that you cry easier on airplanes. But in in in like a cry out of like

• 36:39Speaker 00

  like a real cry that has something to do with real life, not me imagining tragedies. Um, no, you know what? If I cry a real cry, it would probably be about imagining someone in my close circle. Some I call my mom like periods to period, you know, depending on like where I am in my headspace. But I can call her like three times a week and just cry about the fact that she will die one day.

• 37:03Steven Bartlett?

  You have you I was reading through some things about this. You have an interesting relationship with the concept of death.

• 37:10Speaker 00

  I do.

• 37:11Steven Bartlett?

  You do, don't you?

• 37:12Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 37:13Steven Bartlett?

  I read that you were scared of death.

• 37:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, are aren't we all?

• 37:16Steven Bartlett?

  No.

• 37:18Speaker 00

  Okay, I don't know if I'm scared of dying myself. But I'm very, very scared of the day where somebody that I love dies.

• 37:30Speaker 00

  I might even start crying now, like it's.

• 37:34Speaker 00

  I've never experienced that. I have experienced my grandma who passed away. Um, not too long ago, but weirdly enough, like I felt like it was gonna happen. I kind of knew it when we spoke on the phone for the last time. I just knew like this is the last time I'm speaking to her and I could just hear like she was. She's just done. She was she was ninety, you know, she lived a long life. And it was like a running joke in our family, like, is she gonna make it to Christmas for like the past five years? Um, but someone.

• 38:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that's my biggest nightmare for that to happen.

• 38:19Speaker 00

  Knock on wood.

• 38:20Steven Bartlett?

  You know, um, when you're getting so much public feedback.

• 38:25Steven Bartlett?

  And you are someone that, you know, cares about validation. Often the people that care about, I read this quote the other day, it was like, those that care about clapping.

• 38:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:35Steven Bartlett?

  Also really care about the booze.

• 38:37Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 38:38Steven Bartlett?

  Can you relate?

• 38:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, I wish I didn't, but it's the truth. Like, I really do.

• 38:43Steven Bartlett?

  If you open the door to caring what the external world thinks, you're opening it up to both criticism and

• 38:48Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 38:48Steven Bartlett?

  and approval.

• 38:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:50Steven Bartlett?

  Anxiety can't be that far away.

• 38:52Speaker 00

  No. And I can try to tell myself like, oh, I'm fine, huh huh. But I think, you know, I work fine with it, but then sometimes I do wake up, you know, i- in the morning and I'm just like, oh my god, oh my god, what do people say about me?

• 39:12Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I'm like, I have to check my mentions on Twitter and I'm like, okay, he's fine. Like, it's, it's chill, it's cool. I have this, yeah, it comes and it goes. It's not always like that. But um, I do, I would say I, I care, of course, like you say, if you, if you wanna read and hear the good things, even if you don't wanna read the bad things, you, you see them as well. And uh,

• 39:43Speaker 00

  it's almost like the self harming thing, you know? It really is, like, especially I think I am looking for that, like negativity if I have a bad day, just to, for my insecurities to like be confirmed. Like, see, I told you, you suck. You know, it's weird. And then you wanna read a hundred mm mm good ones to like, no, I think I'm good. Like, I think I'm a good person and like, I think I'm talented. And then once, once you've read those hundred, you know, comments or whatever, then you're back to like, right, but where's the bad one? Cause this can't be real. And then you're like, there it is, see? I know, I, I know, I know. And then you, and it's just like a vicious cycle.

• 40:27Speaker 00

  Um, and it's really toxic. And I think I do that a lot more when I feel low. If I feel good about myself, then I don't really care, because I know I'm good. But then, when you're like, Having a bad day, that's when you get sucked into that, I think, the toxicity. Do you care what people say?

• 40:50Steven Bartlett?

  I think everybody cares.

• 40:52Speaker 00

  One hundred percent, they do.

• 40:54Steven Bartlett?

  I I think I've, as I've got older, I've just put things in place to just keep myself out of the way.

• 40:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:59Steven Bartlett?

  You know.

• 41:00Speaker 00

  Cause what you, you know, I I just, you just hit me like, what you want is not to be like, oh, I go in and I read my mentions or quotes or whatever and comments. And I look at them and I don't care. You wanna get to a point where it's like, I don't look at my comments or my mentions because I truly don't care, you know?

• 41:22Steven Bartlett?

  That's where I'm at.

• 41:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:23Steven Bartlett?

  Which is like, so I I I look at comments on YouTube.

• 41:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:28Steven Bartlett?

  I don't go near TikTok. I don't go near Twitter. My Twitter mentions are all off, so I can't see anything anyway.

• 41:33Speaker 00

  Great.

• 41:33Steven Bartlett?

  Uh, I look, I look on LinkedIn.

• 41:35Speaker 00

  Have you ever typed in your name?

• 41:36Steven Bartlett?

  I don't do that anymore.

• 41:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:38Steven Bartlett?

  Nope.

• 41:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:39Steven Bartlett?

  I don't dig on my name. I don't, none of that shit.

• 41:41Speaker 00

  But it's also like.

• 41:42Steven Bartlett?

  I genuinely do not.

• 41:44Speaker 00

  Yeah. But it's like they say, you know, you can say criticism or whatever from people in the arena.

• 41:49Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 41:50Speaker 00

  But people who are watching you on the stands, like, they're not even in the playing field.

• 41:56Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 41:57Speaker 00

  So why would your opinion about something that you have no experience with or knowledge in really matter?

• 42:06Steven Bartlett?

  Whose opinion could hurt you the most?

• 42:08Speaker 00

  Ooh.

• 42:15Speaker 00

  But this is where it's weird because for some reason, it's like the stranger's validation that I wanna get because I know in my life, I know my friends like me and I know my family like me and I know my boyfriend likes me and I know my sister, like those, the people and and people I work with, I know they care about me. So the fact that I wanna prove to people I don't know, that like.

• 42:40Steven Bartlett?

  It's a bit fucked up, isn't it?

• 42:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, or like, I think it's, I think it's, cause I I truly have the belief that if I would be put in a room with anybody, anybody, I'm talking like whatever age.

• 42:57Speaker 00

  Um, political background, um, cultural background, like anything. I know that we would find some common ground. I think all people could. You just gotta find the means to like, get there.

• 43:12Steven Bartlett?

  Um.

• 43:13Speaker 00

  But that's really hard to do online. But I know it's there. I really do believe so.

• 43:20Steven Bartlett?

  When you turned eighteen, you, you talk about how things kinda changed in terms of the way that particularly male figures treated you.

• 43:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think specifically like one person, but. I don't know, you've always heard those stories and then you like experience it and it's. It's just like, wow, this is real life. Like, it's actually.

• 43:42Steven Bartlett?

  Experience.

• 43:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:45Speaker 00

  Sorry?

• 43:45Steven Bartlett?

  Experience what?

• 43:47Speaker 00

  You know, just like advances or comments and um invitations where like. It's also really strange that being eighteen is. Not really being grown in a way. And it's really creepy that it took for me to turn eighteen. For them to just switch up like this, right? Cause what you really wanted was just for me to be legally available. You know, like what you're saying is that if you, if you, if it, if it would have been sixteen or seventeen. You would have, you would have done the same thing, basically. So just like that turning, well, like, oh, hold up now.

• 44:29Speaker 00

  That's very creepy and very weird. And sometimes I wonder, are you even interested? In like a sexual thing, or are you just doing a weird power play on me right now, you know?

• 44:46Speaker 00

  I don't know. And it's, it's a very sticky situation to be put in. And this happened to me even though I have an amazing team and I have really, really good people around me. And I could just imagine. What people who doesn't have that, what they would feel like. Are either being pressured into or.

• 45:12Speaker 00

  You know, cuz it's it's always a power play, I would say. Firstly, because the people who are making the advances are like thirty years older. Just that in itself is a very strange thing. And then, you know, they're mostly in a power position of, you know, they have like a solid position in the industry, or they have a title, and they have, they know this person, and they know this person, and I feel like

• 45:43Speaker 00

  also because the the the big like positions are being ho- held by men. They are probably the ones who are making those advances. I don't think it happens as much for young boys with women because there isn't that many women in those seats. You know what I mean? Maybe it could have happened if it was like women in those positions, but I feel like it's a non-problem because it doesn't exist, like that many women on top, you know?

• 46:16Steven Bartlett?

  At eighteen, did you know what that was?

• 46:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:19Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 46:21Speaker 00

  Or what do you mean?

• 46:22Steven Bartlett?

  Did you, you know, cuz when someone makes an advance, they can do it in a very clear way, or they can do it subtly or whatever, and it's sometimes hard to understand.

• 46:30Speaker 00

  I think I think they also wanna make sure you know.

• 46:33Steven Bartlett?

  Oh, really?

• 46:34Speaker 00

  You know, yeah, for sure.

• 46:40Speaker 00

  It's showbiz, baby.

• 46:45Speaker 00

  No, honestly, it is. It is very strange, and I think because, and this is, you know, pre Me Too and all of that, and I think um, a lot of people are a bit more careful with how they're acting and what they're saying. And they're just simply not in those positions anymore because a lot of people got fired, you know? Yeah.

• 47:11Steven Bartlett?

  Things changed?

• 47:12Speaker 00

  I think so.

• 47:13Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 47:14Speaker 00

  Um.

• 47:16Speaker 00

  I mean, you know what, I also surround myself with a lot of women. And um.

• 47:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, I feel like I.

• 47:28Speaker 00

  I think I just kind of recently started to go to the studio without having. Somebody there with me and they didn't necessarily. Uh, they weren't in the room with me. So to say, but they were sitting in like the green room area or. I had like my manager or I had a day to day with me who would always be close and near. Um, but now I feel like I I know I've met, I've done the speed dating enough in like the studios to know.

• 47:59Speaker 00

  Who I like to work with, who I trust, who I feel good around with. But now I'm like twenty five, so I go around by myself, but. For a very long time, I used to have either that or my mom would always be there. So I felt like. I was still protected and still those things can happen, so. You know. Like I said, I can only imagine what it feels like for. Young girls who are just like starting out, who wants to have a shot. And uh. It's just so easy to be taken advantage of.

• 48:31Steven Bartlett?

  There's gonna be a lot of um. Young. Kids looking up to you. Watching this now, listening to you.

• 48:37Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 48:38Steven Bartlett?

  And then they'll be looking at you thinking, oh my god, she's. She's a superstar, she's so successful.

• 48:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, you think.

• 48:45Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah. In in terms of what you've learned over the last decade, like what? What what do they need to know about how to become a star? How to become a successful person in whatever field they're pursuing? Is there any principles that you've garnered over the last couple of years about like?

• 49:00Steven Bartlett?

  How to how to get to here and how to get here happy?

• 49:03Speaker 00

  You gotta do what you love. I love what you do. I truly think so, like if you choose something that you. Love to do and that feels good for you and you do for yourself. Then work doesn't feel like work and um.

• 49:21Speaker 00

  Like, I know I work hard, but me and my manager, we always joke about this. Like, when I go, I've had a full day of promo today and it's been like, you know, you go back and forth to places. And then when I lay in bed tonight, I'll say to myself, crazy, I didn't do anything today. And that's what it feels like. Like, it doesn't feel like work, it's crazy. So, and then just to have grit, like we talked about. Just keep going, there's no stopping. And when you do something, like I've had songs that I loved, that I've released, like from Poster Girl, like, one of my favorite songs is Love Me Land,

• 50:02Speaker 00

  and I remember thinking like, banger, number one everywhere, no, flop. But, I fucking love it. I think it's one of my best songs. And I love the video, I love everything about it, I love the song, I love, I just love that song. And when you release that, something you're proud of, you can't lose. No matter what other people are saying about it, it's like, this is good. So, the only time you would lose is when you release stuff, or do stuff that you don't really wanna do, that you don't feel a hundred percent comfortable with, and something you can stand for, and then it flops. Like, that's a loss, you know?

• 50:47Speaker 00

  But it's not even a loss if you release something that you, that you don't even like, and it becomes a success. Then it's like a win. But you never know if that's gonna happen, so, that's the gamble. I think just do stuff that you love.

• 51:00Steven Bartlett?

  I read this quote, and it said that Zara sometimes questions whether she really wants to be a performer, or just because she's been telling herself that she wanted to do it since she was a kid.

• 51:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:07Steven Bartlett?

  That seems to sit in contradiction to the person I feel like I've met today, that was very clear that she wanted to always be a performer.

• 51:15Speaker 00

  Well, I think, I just don't know anything different. So sometimes it's like, what if I would have, what if I would have even more fun? Like, editing movies, vlogging. What if? I guess we'll never know, I don't know. Or maybe we will in ten years. But it's, it's, it's almost a part of my DNA at this point. And, um...

• 51:45Speaker 00

  I I do question like have I just put myself in a box since I was a little kid because I was just happened to be good at singing from a very early age and that just naturally became my you know, way in life.

• 52:00Speaker 00

  But then, you know, I go on stage and I just feel so happy. It really does bring me joy. What is that girl called? When she's like picking up an item of clothing and she's like, this is spark joy.

• 52:16Steven Bartlett?

  I'm so surprised you'd expect me to know. You think I'm the guy?

• 52:20Speaker 00

  What was her name? Mary Kondo.

• 52:23Steven Bartlett?

  No idea.

• 52:24Speaker 00

  So, you know, every item in your life is supposed to bring you joy and everything you do is supposed to spark joy. So that's how I feel with my music. It's like, does this spark joy? Yes, it does.

• 52:38Steven Bartlett?

  You've got an album coming out, haven't you?

• 52:40Speaker 00

  Yeah. Does this spark joy? Yes, it does.

• 52:43Steven Bartlett?

  Does your new album spark joy?

• 52:44Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 52:45Steven Bartlett?

  It does?

• 52:45Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 52:46Steven Bartlett?

  Tell me about this new album.

• 52:48Speaker 00

  It's super fun. It's um, I feel like it's a lot more dynamic than um, Poster Girl and it has some ups and it has some downs. And um,

• 53:04Speaker 00

  yeah, it's just, it was really fun making it. I felt like we did it over a period of time with like a small bubble, like a group of people that just became

• 53:18Speaker 00

  you just get to know each other really well, I think. And then from that, instead of having to do these speed dating like sessions, you uh, you build something over a longer period of time and you you get to like try out different things and see what works and what doesn't work. And then at the end of it, you have an amazing collection of songs. So you could just be like, that song, that song, that song, that song.

• 53:43Steven Bartlett?

  How'd you know? Like, where'd you get the conviction from to pick those songs? Because there's gonna be a lot of other forces saying, Zara, no, that song. Like, the creative conviction.

• 53:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's true. I do trust the people I have around me and I really trust my instincts. Like, I think I have a good ear. I really do think.

• 54:04Speaker 00

  Sometimes when you listen to a song, it's like why you add a song to your playlist. You know, you hear a song, you're like, wow, that's really good. Add. Um, and it doesn't have to be harder than that. You don't have to like overthink and analyze.

• 54:21Steven Bartlett?

  What have you learnt about that though? Cause you know, I've read about uncover.

• 54:24Speaker 00

  Uh huh, right.

• 54:26Steven Bartlett?

  That was a good example of you following your own.

• 54:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:28Steven Bartlett?

  Creative conviction, right?

• 54:30Speaker 00

  Totally, and um, that happened to a lot of songs like, nobody wanted to really, really lush life. In America, they were like, buh, buh, which happens to be one of my biggest songs today. Never forget you wasn't, mm, mm, mm, wasn't that exciting? Mm, mm, they didn't really like that one. And like, also, other songs, um, I remember being a little unsure of Symphony. I was like, I don't know, will that pop off? Like, I don't know, and that also became one of my biggest songs. So I think it goes both ways, but when I really like something, I, I really like it. And I think you've just got to believe in yourself and um, in your taste.

• 55:15Speaker 00

  Because if I would just do stuff that I didn't really like, or do stuff that I didn't like as good as something else, then might as well have somebody else do it, I guess, at the end of the day. Cause I still want to do what I think is good. I want it to be me. Um, but then you're also battling with, like coming back to Beyonce and like,

• 55:40Speaker 00

  you know, if you want to live this life in fame and, and the limelight and

• 55:46Speaker 00

  why are you doing, are you doing it for fame or are you doing it because of the art? You know, and then is.

• 55:52Steven Bartlett?

  Why are you doing it?

• 55:53Speaker 00

  Is the, ah, I think a little bit of both.

• 55:57Speaker 00

  And um.

• 56:01Steven Bartlett?

  Because you can always have the art, but the fame is not necessarily guaranteed, is it?

• 56:06Speaker 00

  Totally. So I think, yeah, if you're happy with what you release and you're like really proud of that, that's really what matters at the end of the day.

• 56:16Steven Bartlett?

  Do you know what? I think you're the first person I've ever had on this podcast that would honestly say and openly say, I'm sure the truth is pretty much everyone would have said it, but I don't think they would have been so honest. I think you're the first person to say that you're doing it for fame, yeah.

• 56:30Speaker 00

  I think both.

• 56:31Steven Bartlett?

  But even no one would acknowledge that. The truth is they are.

• 56:34Speaker 00

  Of course, unless they wouldn't be like in his chair.

• 56:37Steven Bartlett?

  You're a liar. Yeah, of course, you wouldn't be on a promo run.

• 56:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, you know what I mean? If you really didn't care.

• 56:41Steven Bartlett?

  Your honesty is quite refreshing.

• 56:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think it's necessary also for, um, I think that's why I'm like a happy person. Like I am very honest and I think I analyze and I think a lot about like my thoughts and my myself and why I do certain things and the purpose of certain things. And if you're just like honest with yourself about things, then

• 57:07Speaker 00

  you're not like, you're living in your truth. And I think that is the ultimate way of of living. And then I can know sometimes like why I'm doing certain things, but at least I know that. And like I am honest with myself about it.

• 57:25Speaker 00

  I guess, I guess that's what it is.

• 57:28Steven Bartlett?

  Your newest single, Can't Tame Her?

• 57:30Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 57:31Steven Bartlett?

  Been listening to that in my little office over there, spinning it over and over again, just to get a feel. How's it going?

• 57:37Speaker 00

  So far, so good. Yeah, I feel like it's really fun to start off the new year with that song. It's really fun to start off the new year with music in general, but that one's really like, woo, you know? It's a, it's like a little eighties banger and quite different from the rest of the album. I would say all the songs are quite different from the rest of the album. So I wouldn't really say like one song is speaking for.

• 58:04Speaker 00

  You know, the song sonically. Um, they're all like still pop, you know? But maybe they're cousins with each other, one song here and there. But it's quite different. It takes you on a ride, on a journey. But Can't Tamer is fun, it's energetic, it's very, makes me feel confident.

• 58:25Steven Bartlett?

  When you went into the studio this time around?

• 58:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:27Steven Bartlett?

  What was the objective? You know?

• 58:30Speaker 00

  When I wrote that song?

• 58:30Steven Bartlett?

  No, just the album.

• 58:32Speaker 00

  Um.

• 58:33Steven Bartlett?

  What were you thinking, like in terms of positioning, in terms of what you wanted to do? And how you wanted it to be different from previous records?

• 58:40Speaker 00

  I just wanted it to be really good, honestly.

• 58:44Steven Bartlett?

  Okay, so it was just about?

• 58:47Speaker 00

  I just want it to be good, because if you look at my Spotify list,

• 58:52Speaker 00

  it's, it's like, it's a lot of stuff going on in there.

• 58:57Steven Bartlett?

  How do you know it's, what's the metric of measurement that will tell you that it's been really good?

• 59:01Speaker 00

  Um, I would say a single or a song is a hit above like four hundred million streams.

• 59:07Steven Bartlett?

  In what period of time?

• 59:10Speaker 00

  Maybe two years.

• 59:11Steven Bartlett?

  But for you, like?

• 59:12Speaker 00

  For me?

• 59:12Steven Bartlett?

  For you on like a deeper?

• 59:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, I would say like.

• 59:15Steven Bartlett?

  Emotional level, what kind of, how you look back and go, that was a successful album?

• 59:21Speaker 00

  I think anything over maybe

• 59:26Speaker 00

  two billion streams is good.

• 59:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's really good.

• 59:32Steven Bartlett?

  Sounds really good.

• 59:34Speaker 00

  I think that's good. Two billion streams is great. And, um,

• 59:40Speaker 00

  yeah, everything above that.

• 59:43Steven Bartlett?

  We sit here in ten years' time and you've been successful. I kind of know what the answer is, stadium tour.

• 59:48Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 59:49Steven Bartlett?

  On the other foot, we sit here in ten years' time and you've been unsuccessful in your own character, characterization of what success is.

• 59:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, maybe I'll just like redefine it.

• 59:59Steven Bartlett?

  What does that mean? What would that look like, though? What would have made you be unsuccessful in terms of? What would you have done?

• 1:00:05Speaker 00

  I think it's just how you, how you've, like.

• 1:00:11Speaker 00

  What you think success is, cause success could also just be like being happy. And it could be like having a family.

• 1:00:18Steven Bartlett?

  What is it for you?

• 1:00:19Speaker 00

  And well, I think it will change over the over the years. Right now, it is to do really well in music and um to just make sure everyone around me is happy and that I'm happy. But in ten years, obviously stadium tour, wah wah wah, maybe I would love to make a couple of movies.

• 1:00:40Steven Bartlett?

  This is the stadium tour album?

• 1:00:42Speaker 00

  Mm hmm. Maybe. Um, I'll celebrate like twenty year, twenty years as an artist, something something little lame to celebrate like twenty years, like even to celebrate like ten years as an artist, like have a ten years as an artist concert. Like celebrate twenty years as an art, I don't know. Something about that I don't like. But I um.

• 1:01:07Steven Bartlett?

  Is that because it means you're getting older?

• 1:01:09Speaker 00

  Ah, maybe. Maybe, actually.

• 1:01:12Steven Bartlett?

  How do you feel about getting older?

• 1:01:14Speaker 00

  Um, I think I'm a little scared. But in general, to age, um, I think it's a beautiful thing. And I actually think being like thirty plus, thirty forty, I, for some reason, I think I'll be my happiest at like forty or fifty. To just really be in tune with myself. Know where I'm going in life. Know where I've been. Be even like, I I'll read no comments at forty.

• 1:01:44Steven Bartlett?

  I don't believe you.

• 1:01:46Speaker 00

  We'll see.

• 1:01:47Steven Bartlett?

  We'll be like living in the metaverse with a headset on, so you'll be in the comments.

• 1:01:51Speaker 00

  That's true. I'll be forever young in the metaverse.

• 1:01:54Steven Bartlett?

  People with tweets and stuff.

• 1:01:57Steven Bartlett?

  Trying to get into national papers and stuff. We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest.

• 1:02:02Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 1:02:03Steven Bartlett?

  Not knowing who they're leaving it for. This person has particularly bad handwriting.

• 1:02:07Speaker 00

  Oh, that's, that could be me.

• 1:02:09Steven Bartlett?

  We'll find out. What's the one thing that gives you the most he- healthy pleasure in life? And how can you commit to?

• 1:02:25Speaker 00

  That.

• 1:02:26Steven Bartlett?

  Doing it, doing more of it.

• 1:02:29Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 1:02:31Steven Bartlett?

  I have to say something.

• 1:02:32Speaker 00

  Laughing, laughing, laughing, isn't it?

• 1:02:35Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:36Steven Bartlett?

  That gives you the most pleasure?

• 1:02:37Speaker 00

  I think so.

• 1:02:39Steven Bartlett?

  You know, I could really see you having like a vlog.

• 1:02:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:42Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah. You've got a great personality.

• 1:02:45Speaker 00

  Thanks. Yeah, I think laughter, it's an old saying, isn't it? It's the best medicine. I think it's important. I, I think laughing, laughing, laughing. You can do with everybody. I think so. And then you can like masturbate a lot. You know? Laughing and masturbating.

• 1:03:06Steven Bartlett?

  At the same time.

• 1:03:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:09Steven Bartlett?

  Something weird about that.

• 1:03:12Speaker 00

  But that's great.

• 1:03:13Steven Bartlett?

  Zara, thank you so much. A pleasure to meet you.

• 1:03:15Speaker 00

  Thank you so much for having me.

• 1:03:16Steven Bartlett?

  I can't wait to hear your new music. When is it gonna be out? You haven't told anybody yet. This year?

• 1:03:19Speaker 00

  Mm hmm. I don't really know.

• 1:03:21Steven Bartlett?

  Soon, subjectively soon.

• 1:03:23Speaker 00

  Soon, exactly.

• 1:03:24Steven Bartlett?

  Okay. I can't wait. A pleasure to meet you, Zara.

• 1:03:27Speaker 00

  Good to meet you. Thank you for having me in your lovely home.

• 1:03:30Steven Bartlett?

  Kitchen.

• 1:03:34Steven Bartlett?

  You know, I never really usually pick the chocolate flavoured Huels. My favourite are the banana flavour. I love the salted caramel flavour. But recently, I think I in part blame Jack in my team, who's obsessed with the chocolate flavour Huels. I've started drinking the chocolate flavour Huels for the first time and I absolutely love them. My life means that I sometimes disregard my diet. And it's funny, that's part of the reason why I've had a lot of guests on this podcast recently that talk about diet and health and, and those kinds of things. Because I am trying to make an active effort to be more healthy, to lose a little bit of weight as well, but to be more healthy. And the role that Huell plays in my life is it means that in those moments where sometimes I might reach for, you know, junk foods, having an option that is nutritionally complete, that is high in fibre,

• 1:04:18Steven Bartlett?

  that is incredibly high in protein, that has all the vitamins and minerals that my body needs, within arm's reach, that I can consume on the go, is where Huell has been a game changer for me.